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US Court Sides With Gene Patents

ananyo writes "Gene patents have been upheld in a landmark case over two genes associated with hereditary forms of breast and ovarian cancer. The lawsuit against Myriad Genetics, a diagnostic company based in Salt Lake City, Utah, that holds patents on the genes BRCA1 and BRCA2, has bounced from court to court since 2010. In a 2-1 decision today, a federal appeals court reaffirmed their latest decision that genes represent patent-eligible matter. As noted before on Slashdot, the case will have major implications for cancer researchers, patients and drug makers."

255 comments

  1. Smoking Crack by OrangeTide · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While Judge Koh suggests Apple is “smoking crack” in another case, I'm going to suggest that judges are smoking crack here.

    What other natural phenomenon can I patent? The shape of a quartz crystal perhaps?

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Smoking Crack by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      I bet you can patent a brain wave. No seriously, I bet you could convince a judge that brain waves are "patentable material", especially if you're using some weird-sounding stimulus to influence them.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    2. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously?

      A fake cease and desist letter from Yes Men, demanding that the Judge pay one cent Royalty to the said Company for every second for the rest of his life could jolt him awake.

    3. Re:Smoking Crack by houghi · · Score: 5, Funny

      What other natural phenomenon can I patent? The shape of a quartz crystal perhaps?

      If you have quarts with rounded corners, I have some bad news for you.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    4. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It must be the same crack that causes an opposite ruling of the one the Supreme Court ruled on a few months ago.

      But the real problem here is that a judicial system designed to interpret criminal law is not designed to interpret scientific merit or results. The entire premise of the system is faulty. Patents eligibility should not be decided by criminal courts, nor should they be processed as if the only merit for approval is that the legal forms and fees are paid.

    5. Re:Smoking Crack by DragonTHC · · Score: 2

      I'm going to patent water!

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    6. Re:Smoking Crack by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And what happens if you reproduce with somebody who has these genes? Will they be able to sue you over your children, the way Monsanto sues people over corn?

    7. Re:Smoking Crack by ColdWetDog · · Score: 0

      Patents are evaluated in a civil court, not criminal. Until that concept is quite clear in your mind, it's best that you refrain from worrying about some of the finer points of the issue.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    8. Re:Smoking Crack by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      "What other natural phenomenon can I patent? The shape of a quartz crystal perhaps?"

      That's what makes this ruling so bizarre -- and likely to be overturned. The Supreme Court has ALREADY ruled that you can't patent "elements of nature".

    9. Re:Smoking Crack by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      Will they be able to sue you over your children, the way Monsanto sues people over corn?

      Um, if you find children growing out of you due to accidental scattering of some else's "seed", you've got much bigger problems than a patent lawsuit...

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    10. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What other natural phenomenon can I patent? The shape of a quartz crystal perhaps?

      Only if it's black, rectangular, and with round corners.

    11. Re:Smoking Crack by X0563511 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can see it now: emotional patents.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    12. Re:Smoking Crack by X0563511 · · Score: 2

      Well, given that there are approximately 50 trillion cells in the average human, I think you could get away with some MPAA/RIAA numbers to use, here...

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    13. Re:Smoking Crack by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Federal court of appeals...

      Civil court? What?

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    14. Re:Smoking Crack by slick7 · · Score: 1

      While Judge Koh suggests Apple is “smoking crack” in another case, I'm going to suggest that judges are smoking crack here.

      What other natural phenomenon can I patent? The shape of a quartz crystal perhaps?

      It just goes to show that the separation of corporate and State is needed more now than ever before.

      --
      The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
    15. Re:Smoking Crack by Forty+Two+Tenfold · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's sad when cynicism replaces outrage.

      --
      Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
    16. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is no longer cynicism. It is a straight line projection, not even science fiction, but will be done, probably by advertisers.

      Of course, the Buddhists could also patent their System.

      Nobody better breathe!

    17. Re:Smoking Crack by Genda · · Score: 1

      Eating raw squid recently resulted in an Asian woman getting pregnant with baby squid in her mouth... Eeeeeewwwww!!!

    18. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Federal does not mean criminal. Why do you think it does?

    19. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are having trouble understanding the common law system as implemented in the US.

    20. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a distinction to be made: there are man-made alterations to human DNA (which should be patentable) and existing DNA sequences that appear without human intervention. It is frustrating when people are always lumping these together - if someone splices octopus DNA into a human to give them a beak, I expect that to be patentable. If they just identify a gene that already existed in nearly every human, then no, it shouldn't be.

      Please be clear when you say "gene patents". Man-made vs. naturally occurring, there is a BIG difference.

    21. Re:Smoking Crack by Teancum · · Score: 3, Informative

      At that level of appeals, the judges are one and the same. The only difference between a civil and criminal case is who happens to be paying for the prosecution (criminal cases are almost always paid for by a government entity) and if the defendant has to spend time in prison or not if unsuccessful. A few other minor differences also hold (in terms of threshold of evidence and a few other things).

      The court rooms are the same, the judges are the same, and the precedent setting capability is the same in all cases.

      That the original grandparent post was suggesting that patent litigation was a criminal matter may have been a confused, but then again changes in "intellectual property law" have indeed criminalized some violations that previously were merely a civil matter. I would dare say that even members of congress often confuse the two kinds of legal actions, and add confusing things into the laws they write which really mucks things up in a hurry.

    22. Re:Smoking Crack by Teancum · · Score: 2

      Will they be able to sue you over your children, the way Monsanto sues people over corn?

      Um, if you find children growing out of you due to accidental scattering of some else's "seed", you've got much bigger problems than a patent lawsuit...

      I've known a few people who scatter their seed rather far and wide. You can ask more than a few women about "accidental scattering of seed" that has children growing out of them and how that has impacted their lives.

      Then again, it sounds like you need somebody to talk to you about the birds and the bees with the talk your parents should have given to you. A refresher course in genetics would be advisable too. Then again I think these judges ought to take a refresher course in genetics as well.

    23. Re:Smoking Crack by Teancum · · Score: 1

      The Supreme Court also said that mathematical formulas couldn't be patented, yet we have software patents. Contradictory rulings on stuff like this are common.

    24. Re:Smoking Crack by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 0

      Don't worry. This will have no effect on most Slashdotters.

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    25. Re:Smoking Crack by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 1
      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    26. Re:Smoking Crack by Altrag · · Score: 1

      "Software" is far more than just bit manipulation. Its like saying Michelangelo just diddled with dyes a bit.

      Sure you might be technically correct, but the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is obviously a bit more than just "paint manipulation" -- it required thought, design, artistry, etc -- all of which are aspects encompassed by the term "software" as well that goes far beyond the basic mathematics.

      That said, I should clarify that I don't agree with the way software patents are currently handled, but I'm not against the general concept of protecting source code if a better system could be implemented (not likely to happen, but I can imagine such a thing!)

    27. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to patent water!

      That's silly. You can't charge royalties to fish. However, if you patented oxygen, well then congratulations...you'd be thinking like a pharmacom exec or lobbyist.

    28. Re:Smoking Crack by jamstar7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, everybody in the US has trouble understanding the legal system in the US. It just don't make sense no matter how you slice it, even when you use a chainsaw.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    29. Re:Smoking Crack by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, it will. Most slashdotters are male, I'm guessing. Their mothers, sisters, maybe GFs, etc., now face expensive custom gene cures for BC.

      And guys that are hoping for prostate cancer breakthroughs will also have come up with more dosh to keep living.

      Cancer isn't the only problem. Think of the Monsanto problem. Genes that grow money in the form of drought resistant food stuffs. Genetic material is a program, and the variables are the sequences, and the sequences are numbers, and numbers aren't patentable, they're data in the program of life. Life shouldn't be patentable; it exists in nature. Altering the numbers produces different results. What.A.Surprise.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    30. Re:Smoking Crack by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      "Software" is far more than just bit manipulation. Its like saying Michelangelo just diddled with dyes a bit.

      For the purpose of patent law it's correct -- Michelangelo never produced anything patentable.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    31. Re:Smoking Crack by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      All alterations to human DNA are "man-made".

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    32. Re:Smoking Crack by Teancum · · Score: 1

      That said, I should clarify that I don't agree with the way software patents are currently handled, but I'm not against the general concept of protecting source code if a better system could be implemented (not likely to happen, but I can imagine such a thing!)

      There is a concept called "copyright" that seems to work just fine for protecting software and software ideas. There are also things called derivative copyrights that can in general protect broad ideas. That is what protects authors like J. K. Rowling from getting exploited by would-be pirates of her ideas that she put into her books. It doesn't stop people from writing books about British youth attending a boarding school who learn about magic as a part of the curriculum, but if you borrow too closely from the books and make it seem too much like Hogwarts, you can get into some legal difficulties that cross the line into a derivative work.

      Computer software can be and sometimes is the same. More to the point, not only are copyright terms longer than patents, but the rationale for such protection is much more justified from a legal standpoint. Software patents simply are not even necessary in terms of general protection of ideas and are much easier to keep trolls from killing legitimate innovation that patents don't seem to stop.

    33. Re:Smoking Crack by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      If you weren't a little late you could patent using the natural resonant vibration frequency of a quartz crystal to keep time.

    34. Re:Smoking Crack by joocemann · · Score: 1

      Wooosh.....

      (I think s/he was referring to 'emotional patents')

    35. Re:Smoking Crack by joocemann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The lawyers, judges (previous lawyers whose colleagues are all lawyers, and politicians (over 80% are lawyers) have established a pretty serious level of JOB SECURITY, haven't they?

    36. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just for everyone wading through the comments below that are all missing the point, here's what the article says:

      In March, the US Supreme Court asked the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit to reconsider the case in light of a ruling against patents on a different, non-genetic diagnostic test. In this case, patents were rendered invalid because they merely reiterated ‘laws of nature’.

      But according to the latest judges, the patents Myriad holds do not reiterate these laws. In the court’s decision, Judge Alan Lourie writes: “Each of the claimed molecules represents a nonnaturally occurring composition of matter.”

      The reason this patent survived was that the process of the test involved creating novel molecules. The novel molecules + the algorithm for the test are patentable. The algorithm on its own is not. The gene on its own is not. The upshot: this patent is easily breakable.

    37. Re:Smoking Crack by pepty · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Oops, meant to post this under my user name:

      Two points:

      -This was about a test for risk factors for breast cancer, not a treatment. Treatments for breast cancer, gene based or no, GMOs, etc would be patentable regardless of the outcome of this case.

      -This result really doesn't matter in the long run when it comes to the cost of getting genetic tests.

      Within a few years the cost of getting ALL of the tests ALL AT ONCE will be below $1500. All of the genetic tests that are ever developed by any company anywhere. Why? Because the cost of sequencing your entire genome will soon be that cheap, and using your own sequence to find out what alleles you have that are relevant to various diseases neatly avoids the “Each of the claimed molecules represents a nonnaturally occurring composition of matter.” rationale for the patent being valid.

      The one exception would be sequencing tumors themselves to see which mutations they have developed, but that's another kettle of fish.

    38. Re:Smoking Crack by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 1

      It's nice to know someone is paying attention.

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    39. Re:Smoking Crack by stainlesssteelpat · · Score: 1

      So dude who redesigned and saw to completion the world's largest church couldn't pull a patent like http://www.archdaily.com/197061/architectural-patents-on-what-grounds/ ?

      --
      War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, the lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade.- Shelley
    40. Re:Smoking Crack by joocemann · · Score: 1

      In the US, we are all(incuding lawyers) grand people of much spirit and common good. But resonant tones of abcess arise at the behest of a capital oriented society, no matter how good the individual thought he did at his job.

      But should we change this? Most people are comfortable.

    41. Re:Smoking Crack by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      It's sad when cynicism replaces outrage.

      Sad, indeed, but purely natural and completely inevitable. Rome wasn't built in a day... but it ended in one... September 4, 476.
      Today it seems as if that were only yester-morrow.

    42. Re:Smoking Crack by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      The lawyers, judges (previous lawyers whose colleagues are all lawyers, and politicians (over 80% are lawyers) have established a pretty serious level of JOB SECURITY, haven't they?

      He said it was resistant to chainsaw, not Molotov cocktail.

    43. Re:Smoking Crack by MagusSlurpy · · Score: 2

      The aliens that kidnapped me outside Atlanta beg to differ. And excuse the typos, I haven't gotten used to my new tentacles yet.

      --
      My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
    44. Re:Smoking Crack by dokc · · Score: 1

      Eating raw squid recently resulted in an Asian woman getting pregnant with baby squid in her mouth... Eeeeeewwwww!!!

      That is an urban legend. It's also filmed in one episode of "Beyond Belief"

      --
      In love, war and slashdot discussions, everything is allowed.
    45. Re:Smoking Crack by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      Mathematics requires thought, design, and artistry, but that doesn't make it patentable.

    46. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like something Eli Lily would do.

    47. Re:Smoking Crack by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      Sushi: the food that keeps you full for longer

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    48. Re:Smoking Crack by Vintermann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think that the people who have these genes should sue the hell out of the "owners" for giving them cancer.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    49. Re:Smoking Crack by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      The situation that the genes are GPL'ed is also a bad thing: the entire DNA should be public as a "derived work", so any insurance company can screw the child.

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    50. Re:Smoking Crack by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      All alterations to human DNA are "man-made".

      I see you are a creationist.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    51. Re:Smoking Crack by Teun · · Score: 1

      Providing the interpretation is indeed going to be along these lines +1 insightful.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    52. Re:Smoking Crack by agentgonzo · · Score: 1

      Sure you might be technically correct, but the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is obviously a bit more than just "paint manipulation" -- it required thought, design, artistry, etc -- all of which are aspects encompassed by the term "software" as well that goes far beyond the basic mathematics.

      Yes, you're totally correct. But the problem is that those things should be (and are) covered by copyright (until it expires). The ceiling of the Sistine chapel is indeed a fantastic creation, but having it 'patented' in the same way that software (and now gene) patents are applied would prevent anyone else from painting the ceiling of anything, or painting the image of God on anything else, rather than protecting his actual artwork he created.

    53. Re:Smoking Crack by noithatphuongdong · · Score: 1

      http://www.noithatphuongdong.vn/san-pham/bep-dien_bep-tu/bep-dien-tu.aspx That the original grandparent post was suggesting that patent litigation was a criminal matter may have been a confused, but then again changes in "intellectual property law" have indeed criminalized some violations that previously were merely a civil matter. I would dare say that even members of congress often confuse the two kinds of legal actions, and add confusing things into the laws they write which really mucks things up in a hurry.

    54. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      "The one exception would be sequencing tumors themselves to see which mutations they have developed, but that's another kettle of fish."

      They can have the genomes of my tumors when they pry them from my cold, dead hands.

      Oh, wait.

    55. Re:Smoking Crack by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Men get breast cancer too.

    56. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have just patented the formula for crack.

      The Judiciary, Congress and Treasury all owe me big time.

    57. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, most cases of male breast cancers (yes, this does exist) are caused by BRCA mutations.

    58. Re:Smoking Crack by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      1. We're talking about emotional patents in this here thread.

      2. Men can and do develop breast cancer. It is not female exclusive, as men have breasts - they are just not fully developed. It's not like testicular or ovarian, where it's exclusive to an organ the other sex doesn't have.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    59. Re:Smoking Crack by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      I'm well aware of that, but thank you for bringing it up. The post I replied to drifted the basis for the "emotional patents". I responded to it.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    60. Re:Smoking Crack by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      If you weren't a little late you could patent using the natural resonant vibration frequency of a quartz crystal to keep time.

      Given the way that the Patent Office is handing out patents like Halloween candy, I say go ahead and submit it.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    61. Re:Smoking Crack by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      The one exception would be sequencing tumors themselves to see which mutations they have developed, but that's another kettle of fish

      "Your results are back, it looks like your tumor has developed a patented Monsanto gene. I'll give you a moment to look over the results before I let their lawyers in."

    62. Re:Smoking Crack by pepty · · Score: 2

      The algorithm on its own (see if your version of the gene matches one on this list) falls under the "law of nature" ruling, and so isn't patentable. Which leaves you with getting information on your gene. There are a few ways to do this that are covered by the patent - and plenty that aren't. Right now 23andMe will include the BRCA and other breast cancer risk factors as part of its $300 dollar SNP workup (Myriad's test is ~2300). In a few years you'll be able to get your entire genome sequenced for less than the current cost of Myriad's test. At that point you won't need to pay for any test to get its information, you'll just run your sequence against the list of risk factors you're interested in. Free software to do this and score the results is already showing up online (friendly software that is, not software for genetics experts), and it is updated with new tests as they show up.

    63. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. come revolution time generally the Judges, Lawyers, and Politicians are the first ones shot(See History for references). Let them have their fun for now.

    64. Re:Smoking Crack by jamiesan · · Score: 1

      The brain wave patterns for Sadness, Cynicism and Outrage have been patented. If you want to experience those emotions, you can purchase a license.

    65. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't feel like that, you'll hear of my lawyers.

    66. Re:Smoking Crack by Forty+Two+Tenfold · · Score: 1

      You can't feel like that, you'll hear of my lawyers.

      Ok, so I've just heard of them. Now will I ever hear from them?

      --
      Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
    67. Re:Smoking Crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Link please!

    68. Re:Smoking Crack by Genda · · Score: 1

      Urban Legend my pink hinny! Here is the most recent story, but this isn't even a rare event. It happens in Japan with some regularity. It has to so with the mechanical function of the male squid's spermatophore. Eat enough raw squid, end up with a mouth full of unwanted guests... and I repeat... EEeeeeeewwwwwwww!!!.

    69. Re:Smoking Crack by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Who gave these judges in one corner of the world the right to affect the whole of humanity?

    70. Re:Smoking Crack by dokc · · Score: 1
      From the story:

      The spermatophores are not fully formed organisms, though they are complex, which is why they may be termed as such, according to science20.com. They are no baby squid eyes or legs or tentacles, as one might imagine.

      If I understand it right, the testicle of a male squids contained the sperm bags which "exploded" in the mouth and stung "victim" in the tongue and the mouth. There was no chance of developing a new squid from it, so the women from the story could not get "pregnant" with baby squid in her mouth. It's just a sensationalistic journalism.

      --
      In love, war and slashdot discussions, everything is allowed.
    71. Re:Smoking Crack by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      I see, you have some mis...understandings about human reproduction.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    72. Re:Smoking Crack by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Using pieces of string as my hardware, I have applied for a patent to solve the right angle problem using the
      formula hyptoteneuse squared = sum of the squares of the individual remaining two sides). My strings are engineered to be of length 3 yards, 4 yards, and 5 yards.

      I even believe that it is genetically sound and we will find this rule to be a patent that is pending in all mathematics calculations for building construction, or any construction where a 90 degree angle is required.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  2. Of Course, This is Insanity. by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Along this course of "logic" - you will someday be paying royalties on genes that comprise your own personal traits.

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:Of Course, This is Insanity. by jd2112 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the other hand if you have medical issues related to patented genes perhaps you could sue the patent holder.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    2. Re:Of Course, This is Insanity. by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Likewise, if THEIR genes are causing a woman's breast cancer, they will naturally be held responsible, right? After all, if MY dog bites someone, I get the medical bills.

    3. Re:Of Course, This is Insanity. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand if you have medical issues related to patented genes perhaps you could sue the patent holder.

      Or be forced to obtain a license from a healthy person just to heal a sick person.

      What's next, annual license or royalty fees on flu vaccines? How far are they going to take this bullshit?

      Please, please let the God of Irony play a well-deserved hand and force this moron judge to personally have to pay to save his own life one day...I'd pay for those ringside seats.

    4. Re:Of Course, This is Insanity. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Along this course of "logic" - you will someday be paying royalties on genes that comprise your own personal traits.

      FYI. Farmers are already being sued out of business for having plants that naturally obtained copywrited genes. Just search for monsanto.

    5. Re:Of Course, This is Insanity. by Tanktalus · · Score: 1

      Oh, no, not that at all. No, you'll only have to pay royalties on duplicating their patented work.

      You know, like procreating.

      Or cell division.

    6. Re:Of Course, This is Insanity. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the whole idea.

    7. Re:Of Course, This is Insanity. by viperidaenz · · Score: 0

      The judge won't have to pay. it'll be part of their kickbacks

    8. Re:Of Course, This is Insanity. by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      No you won't. They claim they own rights to the ISOLATED gene. Not the gene in your genome. In their opinion, that makes it different from patenting something natural. The Brca genes in your genome have introns, these are spliced out, and they're in a much larger chromosome. Your cells work with it in that form, medical tests for cancer diagnostics cannot (I think, I'm not a doctor.) The logic does not extend to your own genes, assuming you came about them naturally rather than genetic engineering, in which case I think you have different concerns other than paying royalties. Like maybe avoiding the men in black...

      It's absurd in enough other ways that we don't need to be making up things. The patents in question are stifling research and cures in cancer, Myriad is unethical, they're not just parasites, they're parasites that are specifically targeting sick people and attempts to cure cancer. It would be fitting if every member of the executive board had a family member get sick and die of cancer. They're evil, but they're not "Make people pay for the genes they're born with evil."

    9. Re:Of Course, This is Insanity. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or cell division.

      like... with cancer?

    10. Re:Of Course, This is Insanity. by T0sk1 · · Score: 1

      You have more control over you dog than you do your Genes. Insurance companies may soon require gene therapy if your pre-disposition to BC if we go too far down this road.

      --
      Is there no end to the madness...
    11. Re:Of Course, This is Insanity. by sjames · · Score: 1

      That's why I don't have the hubris to claim that I own the gene and anything that might detect it.

      It's also why I might claim ownership of a domesticated animal but wouldn't be stupid enough to legally claim ownership of an animal in the wild.

  3. The sky is falling...not. by wermske · · Score: 5, Interesting

    US Supreme Court precedent still holds that patents are invalid where they reiterate the 'laws of nature". This lower court ruling simply found, in another hearing of the case, that the two patents held by Myriad fail to meet the reiteration test. The lower court was directed to consider this rule as a guiding principle. They have done so. This does not preclude further appeal; however, given the very narrow nature of the ruling it is unlikely to have "major implications for cancer researchers, patients and drug makers."

    Certainly, it contributes to the body of common law; however, I don't believe there is deep policy significance in this latest ruling. The beauty of law is its ambiguity.

    1. Re:The sky is falling...not. by LordLucless · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The beauty of law is its ambiguity.

      Certainly, for those who make six figures exploiting such ambiguity it is.
      For people who actually just want to know whether a given action makes the liable or not, the ambiguity of the law is contrary to its fundamental purpose.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    2. Re:The sky is falling...not. by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      I don't see how they can patent something they didn't invent. Breast cancer's been around longer than this company. Oh well. At least a patent only last 7 years (or at least until some idiot Congressman like Sonny Bono extends it to 105).

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    3. Re:The sky is falling...not. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Patents last for 20 years, not 7. I'm also wondering if this patent is on the gene itself, or a specific method of testing for the gene, which is a subtle but important difference.

    4. Re:The sky is falling...not. by bmo · · Score: 2

      It's on the gene itself.

      That's what makes this so mind-blowingly stupid. And to have the judge say that this is not a naturally occurring molecule (wait, people *manufacture* cancer genes?) sets bag of shit on the steps of the courthouse alight.

      --
      BMO

    5. Re:The sky is falling...not. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's good for everyone because it allows leeway.

    6. Re:The sky is falling...not. by artor3 · · Score: 0

      Ambiguity helps to prevent exploits. It's impossible to fashion a law that truly considers every possible circumstance. Giving judges the ability to employ some common sense is a good thing. If you force judges to act like computers, you're going to run into a lot of problems.

      And that's assuming it's even possible to craft an unambiguous law. Human language isn't particularly well suited to that task.

    7. Re:The sky is falling...not. by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ambiguity helps to prevent exploits.

      Or allow them. It cuts both ways.

      And that's assuming it's even possible to craft an unambiguous law. Human language isn't particularly well suited to that task.

      And in that case, the ambiguity is an unfortunate side-effect, not "the beauty of the law"

      An ambiguous law almost inevitably leads to selective enforcement. This is a bad thing, because it puts power in the hands of the interpreters of the law, rather than the law itself.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    8. Re:The sky is falling...not. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the GP is referring to a free society (where all things are free unless specified to not be free), whereas you refer to a totalitarian state (where all things are not free, unless specified that they are free.)

    9. Re:The sky is falling...not. by slippyblade · · Score: 1

      Assuming one has the cash to fight said exploit. Because, most likely, the exploit is being manipulated by deep pockets.

    10. Re:The sky is falling...not. by TFAFalcon · · Score: 1

      It only prevents exploits for people who can't afford a horde of lawyers.

    11. Re:The sky is falling...not. by drcln · · Score: 1

      It's on the gene itself.

      That's what makes this so mind-blowingly stupid. And to have the judge say that this is not a naturally occurring molecule (wait, people *manufacture* cancer genes?) sets bag of shit on the steps of the courthouse alight.

      Actually, the patent claims cover an isolated chemical reagent comprised of nucleic acids having a sequence that corresponds to a sequence found in the gene, not the gene itself. The claim only covers molecules that have been either isolated or made. Perhaps you have heard of PCR. The product of PCR generally does not occur in that form in nature. It is a manufactured nucleic acid. It is not a naturally occurring gene. The claim does not cover any gene as it naturally occurs in a person.

      --
      your gravity fails and negativity don't pull you through
    12. Re:The sky is falling...not. by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Ambiguity helps to prevent exploits. It's impossible to fashion a law that truly considers every possible circumstance. Giving judges the ability to employ some common sense is a good thing.

      That would be great, except for Eastern Texas and friends.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    13. Re:The sky is falling...not. by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Actually, the patent claims cover an isolated chemical reagent comprised of nucleic acids having a sequence that corresponds to a sequence found in the gene, not the gene itself. The claim only covers molecules that have been either isolated or made. Perhaps you have heard of PCR. The product of PCR generally does not occur in that form in nature. It is a manufactured nucleic acid. It is not a naturally occurring gene. The claim does not cover any gene as it naturally occurs in a person.

      "generally does not occur in that form in nature"

      which is lawyer talk for Does Occur That Way In Nature but you don't want to admit it happens.

      Look, siRNA, miRNA, mRNA etc all "modify" genes so they produce things that don't "generally" occur. They ADAPT to changes. It's how our genes encode shuffle and modify based on environmental conditions.

      Just because the dice don't always roll snake eyes doesn't mean dice can't roll snake eyes. They do.

      And, if you have a gene in the dice that incorporates snake DNA mods, they'll look pretty cool.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    14. Re:The sky is falling...not. by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Apparently French was used (still is?) for international treaties... because it is exceedingly precise. Now, I don't speak French so I can't actually confirm this...

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    15. Re:The sky is falling...not. by JonySuede · · Score: 1

      the ambiguity of the law is contrary to its fundamental purpose.

      The ambiguity is essential as no code base as large as the all the codes of laws can be shown as bug free. This ambiguity gives judges some leverage to correct the bugs...

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    16. Re:The sky is falling...not. by Genda · · Score: 1

      They patented something that already existed in the same way that Europeans claimed North America for various European nations when 120,000,000 people already lived here. Europeans apparently haven't got that whole prior art thing down yet.

    17. Re:The sky is falling...not. by Genda · · Score: 1

      And the particular bag of feces in question is sporting a black robe.

    18. Re:The sky is falling...not. by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

      six figures isn't much these days. I'm making six figures replying to you, I mean.... writing code... It's compiling?

    19. Re:The sky is falling...not. by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      One of France's national sports is tax evasion. If it was so exceedingly precise, wouldn't there be fewer loopholes?

    20. Re:The sky is falling...not. by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      luceless, the sky is not falling.

      (there's just some diamonds in it. or so they lead us to believe!)

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    21. Re:The sky is falling...not. by oxdas · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you read the ruling, it become clear that this is a patent on the gene sequence itself. It applies whether or not it is in the human body. It also applies to most variations of the sequence without limit. This means that no one else is allowed to isolate and work on the naturally occurring genes without paying royalties, even if the genes are present in your own body.

      A few quotes from the dissent:
      "From a genetic perspective, that claim covers one "composition of matter" --the BRCA1 gene. The isolated chromosomes 13 and 17. They have the same sequence, they code for the same proteins, and they represent the same units of heredity."

      "...its composition claims are not defined by any particular chemical formula. For example, claim 1 of the '282 patent covers all isolated DNAs coding for the BRCA1 protein, with the protein being defined by the amino acid sequence encoded by the naturally occurring BRCA1 gene ... And the patent does not identify the upper end of that range because the patent does not identify a unique nucleotide sequence ... Instead, the patent contains a sequence that is just 24,000 nucleotides longs with numerous gaps denoted by "vvvvvvvvvv." An almost incalculably large number of new molecules could be created by filling in those gaps with almost any nucleotide sequence."

    22. Re:The sky is falling...not. by artor3 · · Score: 1

      How does ambiguity allow an exploit?

      If the judge is allowed to use their discretion, in what way does that make the law more vulnerable to being exploited? And don't try to say bribery, since if we're assuming a bribed judge, it doesn't matter how clear the law is.

    23. Re:The sky is falling...not. by bmo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > The product of PCR generally does not occur in that form in nature. It is a manufactured nucleic acid

      Perhaps you don't understand PCR yourself. PCR makes identical copies of the molecule. It's the way PCR works. It's the same molecule as found in nature, just run through a metaphorical photocopier enough times to make it easier to handle.

      Your logic is like saying saying you can patent a mountain because you took a picture of it.

      --
      BMO

    24. Re:The sky is falling...not. by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Because if judge is allowed to make decisions not based on law, those decisions can not be appealed even if they make no sense.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    25. Re:The sky is falling...not. by LordLucless · · Score: 2

      It means the judges have more control over the law.

      Whether you're punished for something becomes less and less about the law, and more and more about the judge the more ambiguous the law is. There is supposed to be a delineation between creating the law (legislature) and applying the law (judicial). Moreover, the law is public - people can read it, object to it, push for it to be changed. It's much harder to do that with a judge's interpretation of the law.

      Fundamentally, the purpose of the law is to provide an answer to the question "Am I allowed to do this?" If the law's answer is "I dunno, it's ambiguous. Try it and see what the judge says." then the law is useless.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    26. Re:The sky is falling...not. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      This ambiguity gives judges some leverage to correct the bugs...

      Or add new ones.

    27. Re:The sky is falling...not. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Ambiguity helps to prevent exploits. It's impossible to fashion a law that truly considers every possible circumstance. Giving judges the ability to employ some common sense is a good thing.

      A "common sense" ambiguity is a good thing, yes. The problem is that it doesn't seem to be working that way. Ideally, we'd want such law that basic understanding of it + common sense would be sufficient to avoid violating it. In practice, we have not only laws absurd by themselves, but also absurd implementations of originally reasonable laws - and using common sense to make sense of a lot of lawyer speak is not merely unhelpful, but often actively harmful.

    28. Re:The sky is falling...not. by FirephoxRising · · Score: 1

      I can't believe you used the words judge and common sense in the same sentence. I can't remember the last time I read about a major case and thought "Finally some common sense". These judges can't seem to step back and realise that they are completely out of their depth on these topics and the system doesn't really help with getting people who do understand these topics involved. I also have a major problem with how the courts work, it doesn't matter how dumb or destructive a verdict is, if it is legal, it goes.

    29. Re:The sky is falling...not. by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      C is very precise, yet few can find a back-door written in it when properly disguised amongst a plethora of innocuous looking texts.

    30. Re:The sky is falling...not. by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      That really depends... The six figures I made are all giving me the finger.

    31. Re:The sky is falling...not. by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but are you making six figures per hour? :P

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
  4. ... in the US by phorm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hopefully in the rest of the world, things will be more sane.

    1. Re:... in the US by Desler · · Score: 3, Informative
    2. Re:... in the US by phorm · · Score: 1

      I wonder if that's meant to cover things like this?

  5. Gene Patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gene Patents is one hell of a guy, I'd side with him too.

    1. Re:Gene Patents by neminem · · Score: 4, Funny

      Bill Posters is innocent!

    2. Re:Gene Patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But Howard Johnson is right!

    3. Re:Gene Patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bill Posters is innocent!

      He will be prosecuted nonetheless.

  6. Hmm... by Antony+T+Curtis · · Score: 5, Funny

    With these patents, does that mean that they own certain types of cancer?

    If so, then they should take responsibility of their property and stop being irresponsible and infecting people with their property.

    As remedy, I suggest that they fully pay for the treatment to remove their property from their victims and for the stress caused by their carelessness.

    --
    No sig. Move along - nothing to see here.
    1. Re:Hmm... by Desler · · Score: 2

      With these patents, does that mean that they own certain types of cancer?

      No.

    2. Re:Hmm... by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

      Hell, think about the LIABILITY.

    3. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the people with the cancer are infringing and owe the company $$$ for each matching segment of DNA!

    4. Re:Hmm... by six11 · · Score: 1

      Actually, if that reasoning were to apply elsewhere, Monstanto might actually have to take responsibility for infecting neighboring non-GMO fields with its seed. I agree with one of the posters below... the people with cancer would somehow end up owing the company money.

      I think I'll start a kickstarter fund to set up a colony on Mars, away from all this lunacy.

    5. Re:Hmm... by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Don't you mean the victims must remove the stolen intellectual property from their bodies and compensate the patent holders for all of their losses and legal fees?

    6. Re:Hmm... by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Sorry, Mars already has two lunar bodies. Earth only has one.

  7. Wait, what? by bmo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But according to the latest judges, the patents Myriad holds do not reiterate these laws. In the courtâ(TM)s decision, Judge Alan Lourie writes: âoeEach of the claimed molecules represents a nonnaturally occurring composition of matter."

    Like hell they are. This judge needs to go back to HS biology.

    --
    BMO

    1. Re:Wait, what? by zlives · · Score: 2

      quick some one patent the higgs before LHC claims they own patent cause they discovered it... that will get us in some heavy shit

    2. Re:Wait, what? by tragedy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Regarding Judge Lourie from http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/judges/alan-d-lourie-circuit-judge.html:

      Before being appointed to the court, Judge Lourie had been President of the Philadelphia Patent Law Association, a member of the Board of Directors of the American Intellectual Property Law Association (formerly American Patent Law Association), treasurer of the Association of Corporate Patent Counsel, and a member of the board of directors of the Intellectual Property Owners Association. He was also Vice Chairman of the Industry Functional Advisory Committee on Intellectual Property Rights for Trade Policy Matters (IFAC 3) for the Department of Commerce and the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative. He was a member of the U.S. delegation to the Diplomatic Conference on the Revision of the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property, held in Geneva in October and November 1982, and in March 1984. He was chairman of the Patent Committee of the Law Section of the Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Association from 1980 to 1985.

      Judge Lourie was awarded the Jefferson Medal of the New Jersey Intellectual Property Law Association for extraordinary contributions to the field of intellectual property law in 1998; was a recipient of the Intellectual Property Owners Education Foundation Distinguished Intellectual Property Professional Award for extraordinary leadership in the intellectual property community and a lifetime commitment to invention and innovation in 2008; was a recipient of the Philadelphia Intellectual Property Law Association’s Award for outstanding IP achievement in 2010; was a recipient of the Boston Patent Law Association’s Distinguished Public Service Award in 2011...

      Good to know that these cases go to truly impartial judges.

    3. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But according to the latest judges, the patents Myriad holds do not reiterate these laws. In the courtâ(TM)s decision, Judge Alan Lourie writes: âoeEach of the claimed molecules represents a nonnaturally occurring composition of matter."

      Like hell they are. This judge needs to go back to HS biology.

      --
      BMO

      Indeed. But I'm not sure how the hell we ever expected a judge to rule on something like this with any level of accuracy or understanding.

      Given their track record for understanding and ruling accurately on highly technical matters (the last time a judge was asked about "cookies", his response was "you mean oatmeal or peanut butter?"), I'd say that morbid ignorance behind the bench has been a pre-existing condition for a very long time.

    4. Re:Wait, what? by hondo77 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Because someone anti-patent would be "impartial"?

      No. Someone with no ties to the IP biz would be impartial, smartass.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    5. Re:Wait, what? by tragedy · · Score: 2

      Because someone who is a member of a bunch of organizations whose function is essentially to pat each other on the back for expanding the scope of intellectual property clearly isn't impartial.

    6. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the court's decision, Judge Alan Lourie writes: "Each of the claimed molecules represents a nonnaturally occurring composition of matter."

      Like hell they are. This judge needs to go back to HS biology.

      He's right, the molecules are made by God

    7. Re:Wait, what? by westlake · · Score: 1, Flamebait
      So you are telling us that a judge who specializes in patent law has over thirty years experience in patent law?

      Not to mention:

      Born in Boston, Massachusetts, on January 13, 1935, Judge Lourie received his Bachelorâ(TM)s degree from Harvard University (1956), his Masterâ(TM)s degree in organic chemistry from the University of Wisconsin (1958), and his Ph.D. in chemistry from the University of Pennsylvania (1965). He received his J.D. degree from Temple University in 1970.

    8. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I'm sure that his PhD in Chemistry, and Master's in Organic chemistry give him no background in anything related to teh subject.

      Given Anonymous cowards track record for flying off the handle without doing any research, maybe you should look in the mirror for who is lacking accuracy or understanding.

    9. Re:Wait, what? by tragedy · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Intellectual Property Owners Association:

      established in 1972, is a trade association for owners of patents, trademarks, copyrights and trade secrets. IPO is the only association in the U.S. that serves all intellectual property owners in all industries and all fields of technology.

      The association advocates effective and affordable IP ownership rights and provides a wide array of services to members. It concentrates on: supporting member interests relating to legislative and international issues; analyzing current IP issues; providing information and educational services; and disseminating information to the general public on the importance of intellectual property rights.

      Lourie is on the board of directors of this organization, which indicates a pretty clear bias on intellectual property issues. Eligibility for Membership on the Intellectual Property Rights IFAC

      He was also ice Chairman of the Industry Functional Advisory Committee on Intellectual Property Rights for Trade Policy Matters (IFAC 3) and:

      Committee members are U.S. citizens representing U.S. manufacturing or service firms, trade internationally, and have a special interest in and knowledge of international trade issues. Representatives of industry associations may also participate.

      So that's hardly a neutral position.

      He was also chairman of the Patent Committee of the Law Section of the Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Association from 1980 to 1985, and clearly the Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Association is not impartial.

      The rest of the stuff in there is recognition from all kinds of pro-ip groups. Based in this resume, this is clearly not a judge whose interests lie in exercising prudence when granting intellectual property rights to claimants. I left out the information on his eduction because it really has nothing to say about any potential bias or neutrality. It clearly does show, however, that he should be educated to clearly understand that "Each of the claimed molecules represents a nonnaturally occurring composition of matter" is a load of steaming genetic material. He clearly understands that the patent-holders in this case figuratively used a pair of pruning shears (which they didn't invent) to cut the (figurative) leaf off (still figurative) tree and then claimed the leaf as their own invention. His conceit is that the act of cutting the leaf off the tree is enough to make the "isolated" leaf an invention. That kind of logic effectively makes everything that can be discovered in nature patentable since the act of discovery "isolates" it from the rest of the natural world in which it originated.

    10. Re:Wait, what? by bmo · · Score: 1

      He's right, the molecules are made by God

      Assuming you are right for the sake of argument.

      Patents are supposed to cover inventions done by Man.

      If genes were invented by God, then they are not Man's to patent. Especially considering prior art. They existed long before society even existed, let alone patents. Therefore, genes are are God's, and thus not patentable.

      Petard. Your own. Hoisted.

      --
      BMO

    11. Re:Wait, what? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      But according to the latest judges, the patents Myriad holds do not reiterate these laws. In the courtâ(TM)s decision, Judge Alan Lourie writes: âoeEach of the claimed molecules represents a nonnaturally occurring composition of matter."

      Like hell they are. This judge needs to go back to HS biology.

      Without taking a position on whether these particular patents are good or bad, the patents claim only the isolated DNA sequence, which doesn't naturally occur in nature. A really terrible analogy would be claiming a finger, in isolation. In nature, it's always part of a hand, so the isolated "finger" doesn't exist naturally.
      This is a really terrible analogy, because the isolated DNA is actually more manipulated than just severing a finger - apparently, they have to do a lot of work modifying the molecule to keep the isolated form from falling apart without its neighbors to bind it. I guess something closer would be if someone claimed an "atom" of pure protons, somehow keeping it from flying apart due to magnetic forces.

      Anyway, the result is that someone with cancer doesn't infringe the patent (nor would they be prior art that anticipates the patent) because while they have the BRCA1 gene, they don't have it isolated from the rest of their DNA.

    12. Re:Wait, what? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I guess something closer would be if someone claimed an "atom" of pure protons, somehow keeping it from flying apart due to magnetic forces.

      Such a thing should still not be patentable, period. A machine that would let you produce such a thing, sure. The atom itself, no way in hell.

    13. Re:Wait, what? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      I guess something closer would be if someone claimed an "atom" of pure protons, somehow keeping it from flying apart due to magnetic forces.

      Such a thing should still not be patentable, period. A machine that would let you produce such a thing, sure. The atom itself, no way in hell.

      Why not? The patent act explicitly allows "new and useful... compositions of matter," so why wouldn't it qualify?

    14. Re:Wait, what? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Oh, it would certainly qualify under laws as they stand. Doesn't mean that they're good laws. I don't see how a material in and of itself can be claimed as patentable on any reasonable or ethical grounds. Just because you're the first one to discover some way of obtaining a certain substance, why should you be able to preclude me from devising a different way of getting the same thing? The substance in and of itself is not a creation of your intellect.

    15. Re:Wait, what? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Oh, it would certainly qualify under laws as they stand. Doesn't mean that they're good laws. I don't see how a material in and of itself can be claimed as patentable on any reasonable or ethical grounds. Just because you're the first one to discover some way of obtaining a certain substance, why should you be able to preclude me from devising a different way of getting the same thing? The substance in and of itself is not a creation of your intellect.

      Tell that to the inventor of nylon. :)

    16. Re:Wait, what? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      ... your point being?

      (yes, I would refuse the inventor of nylon a patent on the material, and would only allow a patent on a specific process used to obtain it)

    17. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But according to the latest judges, the patents Myriad holds do not reiterate these laws. In the courtâ(TM)s decision, Judge Alan Lourie writes: âoeEach of the claimed molecules represents a nonnaturally occurring composition of matter."

      Like hell they are. This judge needs to go back to HS biology.

      --
      BMO

      This ignorant jurist needs to be exempted from the trial.

    18. Re:Wait, what? by bmo · · Score: 1

      Tell that to the inventor of nylon.

      But we're not talking about nylon, a purely synthetic molecule, we're talking about "photocopies" (PCRed) of a naturally occurring molecule. The molecule itself is in nature. I said this earlier, and I'll say it again: this is like patenting a mountain because you took a picture of it, because you claim the picture is a manmade creation.

      --
      BMO

    19. Re:Wait, what? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Tell that to the inventor of nylon.

      But we're not talking about nylon, a purely synthetic molecule, we're talking about "photocopies" (PCRed) of a naturally occurring molecule. The molecule itself is in nature. I said this earlier, and I'll say it again: this is like patenting a mountain because you took a picture of it, because you claim the picture is a manmade creation.

      Except that as noted above, the molecule itself isn't in nature. (Not that a picture would be patentable, but) this is like patenting the picture of the mountain because you took it. You stake no ownership claim over the mountain, and no mountain infringes your claim. Just the picture.

    20. Re:Wait, what? by bmo · · Score: 1

      But it's the gene itself that is being patented. Not the method of taking the picture. Because PCR has been around long before the existence of the gene. Are you seriously arguing that combining PCR with a snippet of a *naturally occurring* breast cancer gene does anything different than previous snippets of *naturally occurring* genes through PCR?

      The amount of logical twisting to justify the judge's point of view.

      --
      BMO

    21. Re:Wait, what? by confusednoise · · Score: 1

      Well it wouldn't make much sense to discuss the intricacies of patent law with a judge who specializes in family law, would it?

      That suspicion of the experts is the same kind of crap that anti-vaccine folks throw out so that they can ignore the people most qualified to comment on the issue (i.e. 'well he's an MD so of course he's biased'). I'm just picking on the anti-vaccine folks here, but really the same pattern happens everywhere.

      Not that I agree w/the gene patent (actually my day job is in the field but that's another story) but claiming that patent judges shouldn't decide the issue is silly.

    22. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's right, the molecules are made by God

      Assuming you are right for the sake of argument.

      Patents are supposed to cover inventions done by Man.

      If genes were invented by God, then they are not Man's to patent. Especially considering prior art. They existed long before society even existed, let alone patents. Therefore, genes are are God's, and thus not patentable.

      - I was commenting on the "nonnaturally occurring composition of matter" (that everything could be said to be artificial since God made it and not "nature"), not patent per-se
      - As for patent, it's a human law so us humans decide what can be patented or not. You think God or natural stuff shouldn't be, some other people think they should. In the end, it's just a matter of opinion.

      Petard. Your own. Hoisted.

      I guess I should have added a ";)" or a ":p". I though that the article I pointed to would show the mood (or maybe you just didn't RTFA). Anyway, sorry you took it so seriously.

    23. Re:Wait, what? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      I didn't claim that patent judges shouldn't decide the issue. Clearly it's probably difficult to find legal experts in the intellectual property field without ties to industry. Nevertheless, there is a difference between being an expert in IP law and being heavily pro-IP and pro-industry.

    24. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We can't. He killed himself soon after filing.

  8. Oh come on... by bmo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Imagine, for the sake of argument that what follows is greentexting.

    >go to tech related site like slashdot
    >no support for UTF8
    >2012

    Oh the ironing.

    --
    BMO

  9. Big Pharma wins again by danbuter · · Score: 2

    At least in the US, big pharmaceutical company profits are far more important than something as silly as the health of the general population.

    1. Re:Big Pharma wins again by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 3, Funny

      Patenting a gene because you made a detection kit for it is like invading Iraq because Saudis blew up some of your buildings.

      Oops! Sorry...

    2. Re:Big Pharma wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is very good news for pharmaceutical companies, as they are free make money to licensing their patents on parts of the human biology, and take violators to court.

      It may not be so good news for cancer researchers and cancer patients, as it probably will slow or even halt progress in some areas of cancer research.

      But hey, it's not all bad. Corporations are people too, you know.

      And they employ people, lots of them!

      Some of whom may get cancer.

      But they may have health care insurance through their place of employment!

      Which still can't give them non-existent treatments that haven't been invented because of these patents.

      OK, I got nothing.

    3. Re:Big Pharma wins again by west · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do you mean that it's far better that everybody go without this discovery forever, than a large number of people (who can afford it, naturally) benefit during the patent period, and then everybody benefit from it afterwards?

      Or would you prefer to believe that in the absence of commercial medical research, government, which by their very nature don't tend to make risky investments that are unlikely to payoff, will miraculously somehow start funding expensive medical research?

      I'm a Canadian, and I like my cheap medical care. But it would be the height of hypocrisy to ignore the fact that almost all the medical developments that are likely to keep me healthy into old age wouldn't exist if there wasn't the good old greed of the American medical system. Of course, there are some notable exceptions, but in general, if someone isn't going to make money from it (with the significant chance of a lot of money), then people aren't going to take the risk of expensive research with high probability of failure.

      The choice for genetic research isn't between expensive vs. cheap. It's between expensive now + cheap later vs. not available at all.

    4. Re:Big Pharma wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not only the big pharmas that win.

      Who do you think they pay taxes to? A lot of US's assets right now are just this, Imaginary Property.

    5. Re:Big Pharma wins again by Grave · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Scientists very rarely do any of the amazingly awesome stuff they do because they want tons of money. The people who fund the scientists only do so because they expect to make tons of money off of them. This is a very important distinction. Just like politics, if we remove money from the equation, a lot of good can happen. Medical and scientific progress shouldn't depend on the ability to turn a profit.

    6. Re:Big Pharma wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...government, which by their very nature don't tend to make risky investments that are unlikely to payoff...

      I'd say there are any number of examples, from Lewis & Clark's expedition on through to NASA, as well countless others which received less publicity, even the medium you used to post those words, that would stand as refutation of them.

    7. Re:Big Pharma wins again by west · · Score: 1

      Medical and scientific progress shouldn't depend on the ability to turn a profit.

      Except it does, and it always will. A government that chooses dozens upon dozens of projects, all of which produce nothing (most medical research fails) is putting itself in the cross-hairs of the opposition, who will go to town with a long list of "wasted" millions on "junk projects".

      As someone who has been on the periphery of government funding of science, it's always amused me that the government wants to know what you'll discover before they'll fund you. Perfectly acceptable for an organization that *must* be risk averse. Utterly terrible for high-stakes, low success probability research. Ideal for basic research which in general is much cheaper and doesn't have any direct financial benefits.

      Commercial medical research is not the best option (see orphan diseases), but realistically speaking, it's the only option.

    8. Re:Big Pharma wins again by mirix · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we could never (almost) eradicate polio without some drug company patenting it, could we?

      I seem to think the funding for that research was via a non profit, as well, if not mistaken.

      Plenty of govn't funded research too.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    9. Re:Big Pharma wins again by west · · Score: 1

      Well, Lewis and Clark and NASA would not get funded if the chance of success was a good deal less than 1 in 10. As for the internet, the technology that I am using to post this has been covered by thousands of patents over the years and created by thousands of companies, all of which were trying to make big bucks.

      This is not to say that government has no place in research funding - ala Arpanet and any amount of cheap, basic research. But expecting government to essentially buy multi-million dollar product-development lottery tickets, which, if we remove the financial incentives will *never* make back the money is unrealistic. It doesn't take a genius to know that a government that spent ~$100 billion/year on medical research, the *vast* majority of which failed, would be in the cross-hairs of the opposition and the voters. Far wiser (politically) not to spend the money given that no voter is going to punish you for the medical innovations that never happened.

      Honestly, given our reality, do you see any other method of getting close to 100 billion dollars worth of research done?

    10. Re:Big Pharma wins again by west · · Score: 1

      Plenty of govn't funded research too.

      Indeed, But not near $100 billion dollars worth.

      For better or worse, medical research is now a *massively* expensive, high risk proposition. In other words, poison for any government that wants to remain in power.

    11. Re:Big Pharma wins again by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1, Insightful

      just remember: science flies you to mars. religion flies you into buildings.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    12. Re:Big Pharma wins again by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      before you get too far along, realize that a LOT of what is listed as cost of 'r&d' is really advertising, marketing, kickbacks and payoffs.

      universities also contribute a HUGE amount.

      the profits are so high and the cost so truly low, I'm not impressed by the hollywood accouting big pharma does. I have zero pity for their 'poor situation'.

      if you want to get right down to it, public health is an infrastructure as much as roads, electricity and clean water is. the fact that we attach profit to this kind of DISGUSTS ME, no end.

      not every fucking thing in life has to be for-profit. fuck you if you disagree.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    13. Re:Big Pharma wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please explain why they could not have simply patented the device or process used to extract the molecule of DNA? Look I'm from Canada too & now live in the US and this is ruling is absolutely ridiculous, it's like claiming that the first person to isolate an electron got to patent it because it was no longer part of an 'Atom' & therefore a 'nonnaturally occurring' substance...or more likely the case, taking a long-chain amino acid & breaking it up in to it's constituent atoms and then filing a patent on those or any subset of the molecules that is not the whole molecule..

      This is NOT a patentable discovering, it's just breaking pieces up & claiming ownership of the parts...that's ludicrous.

    14. Re:Big Pharma wins again by djchristensen · · Score: 1

      Saying "the government" this and "the government" that masks the fact that the government is made of of people who make decisions based on a number of motivating factors, not the least of which is getting reelected. So blaming "the government" is deflecting the true issue, which is that the general populace in this country have been poorly educated (maliciously or not, depending on which side of the aisle you sit on) as to the importance of funding science in a significant way and making the results openly available. Throw in a significant helping of a "shove your taxes up your a$$ and keep your hands off MY money" mentality, and funding for public research dries up. We vote for whomever says they will let us keep more of our money without regard for the long term costs of the resulting policies, which we are ill-equipped to evaluate (hence our general dependence on a political party and/or religion to tell us how to think).

      Having that open research available does not, as some here seem to want to argue, stifle the fires of inovation, it provides fuel for it. Availability of more knowledge begets ever more knowledge, and there will be ways to profit from that without having to lock it all up in the safes of mega-corporations. Think about where medical science and big pharma is today without having had to previously patent genes. And is anyone seriously going to argue that big pharma will just abandon all research based on gene therapies if these patents are disallowed? Really?

    15. Re:Big Pharma wins again by daisybelle · · Score: 1

      Scientists very rarely do any of the amazingly awesome stuff they do because they want tons of money. The people who fund the scientists only do so because they expect to make tons of money off of them. This is a very important distinction.

      Agreed. (From an ex-academic.)

      --
      "You only get ONE LIFE." Richard Rahl, Faith of the Fallen - Terry Goodkind
    16. Re:Big Pharma wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But naturally scientists with AGW are totally impartial.

    17. Re:Big Pharma wins again by west · · Score: 1

      "shove your taxes up your a$$ and keep your hands off MY money" mentality, and funding for public research dries up

      While this attitude may be endemic in the US, it's not throughout the rest of the world, and yet very little product development research gets done publicly anywhere. The problem is that there are different types of research, and not terribly surprisingly, the government tends to fund most cheap basic non-risky research, while leaving expensive high-risk research for the private sector. I'll make the claim that you cannot expect government to fund any research where the base expectation is that 9 out of 10 expensive projects will *fail*.

      It's not a matter of badly educated populace - it's a matter that if we the populace could decide where to spend $95 billion dollars last year, we wouldn't spend it on research. There are vastly better short-term ways to relieve human suffering that are desperately needed. So the research doesn't get done.

      Another way of looking at it, is that the reason I have a $50 cell phone now is because we allowed companies to sell $5,000 dollar cell phones 30+ years ago, which made it worth-while to invest in the technology. Admittedly medical research is a lot more emotionally volatile, and my impulse is against denying treatment to those who can't afford it, but if I look at the long term (and the past), I am a hell of a lot better off because of that system, even though I won't be able to afford most of the latest innovations.

      (By the way, I'm not nearly as big a fan of long-term protection of lower-cost, non-risky technology - 99% of software and business method patents could be thrown out and I don't think we'd see any substantial difference in technological progress in those fields. But I cannot see any way of replacing the $95 billion worth of medical research that occurs each year without extracting it from paying customers, which means patents, and limited access for some years.)

    18. Re:Big Pharma wins again by west · · Score: 1

      before you get too far along, realize that a LOT of what is listed as cost of 'r&d' is really advertising, marketing, kickbacks and payoffs.
      universities also contribute a HUGE amount.

      Agreed and agreed. However, what the universities contribute is of an essentially different nature from what drug companies do.

      the profits are so high and the cost so truly low...

      Costs so low? This doesn't square with anything we know about drug development. Do you have any figures to back up this assertion?

      if you want to get right down to it, public health is an infrastructure as much as roads, electricity and clean water is. the fact that we attach profit to this kind of DISGUSTS ME, no end.

      Ah, this is where we disagree. I consider increasing health-care outcomes more important than ensuring that no-one profits from health-care. I find it far more productive to yoke greed so that it produces results the results I want (in the long-term) than to simply do without.

      But then I've never been part of the "far better everyone suffer than someone unjustly gain" movement.

      not every fucking thing in life has to be for-profit. fuck you if you disagree.

      No, not everything does. But when the desire for profits and what I would like to see happen, align in roughly the same direction, it makes sense to take advantage of the situation rather than do without. From my stand-point, I've gotten other, richer people's ability and willingness to pay for advanced medical technology (on the order of a trillion dollars over 20 years), to pay for my now affordable health-care. I get it later, but the price is right...

      (As for water + roads + electricity - it depends. If you need a *new* network, then for-profit tends to work better and faster. For operating an existing monopoly, private enterprise operates pretty badly.)

    19. Re:Big Pharma wins again by djchristensen · · Score: 1

      You make very good points. My comments may have been overly influenced by the state of SW patents and the current attitude (on the part of conservatives, mostly) against even basic research being funded by the government. I do think there is a better balance to be had. I'm also not convinced that the core "inventions" of these particular patents could not have been made via well-funded basic research. But then I'm not expert in this field to really know.

  10. silly wabbit... by zlives · · Score: 1

    not sure if they promised a return/refund policy with their product.

  11. Yay! by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 1

    Hooray! Now I can patent a gene that arose spontaneously in nature because I invented a detection kit based on standard published techniques I learned in grad school! Now if I could only patent an entire friggin' human chromosome... But which one, which one would be best...

    1. Re:Yay! by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      Now if I could only patent an entire friggin' human chromosome... But which one, which one would be best...

      The Neanderthal part.

  12. time to start suing the owner(s) of these patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For causing harm.

    Since the owners are now causing cancer, it would seem that a lawsuit over the cleanup should be about 2 million per patient.

    Any delays should cause triple damages.

  13. From the rest of the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please, Please, Please, Please don't export this, like you do with most of your iditotic, broken laws. In this game, the very survival of the human race is at risk.

    1. Re:From the rest of the world by Desler · · Score: 2

      Patenting of genes in the EU is already allowed.

    2. Re:From the rest of the world by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 1

      Ha! Suckers.

  14. promising future treatment by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's a fuller explanation from the opinion (not that I agree with it). They appear to be making a distinction between isolated DNA, which is allegedly nonnaturally processed in a way that renders it patent-eligible, and "native DNA" as it exists inside the human body, which is a natural occurring composition of matter.

    It is undisputed that Myriad’s claimed isolated DNAs exist in a distinctive chemical form—as distinctive chemical molecules—from DNAs in the human body, i.e., native DNA. Natural DNA exists in the body as one of forty-six large, contiguous DNA molecules. Each of those DNA molecules is condensed and intertwined with various proteins, including histones, to form a complex tertiary structure known as chromatin that makes up a larger structural complex, a chromosome. See supra, Figure 3. Inside living cells, the chromosomes are further encapsulated within a series of membranes and suspended in a complex intracellular milieu.

    Isolated DNA, in contrast, is a free-standing portion of a larger, natural DNA molecule. Isolated DNA has been cleaved (i.e., had covalent bonds in its backbone chemically severed) or synthesized to consist of just a fraction of a naturally occurring DNA molecule. For example, the BRCA1 gene in its native state resides on chromosome 17, a DNA molecule of around eighty million nucleotides. Similarly, BRCA2 in its native state is located on chromosome 13, a DNA of approximately 114 million nucleotides. In contrast, isolated BRCA1 and BRCA2, with introns, each consists of just 80,000 or so nucleotides. And without introns, BRCA2 shrinks to approximately 10,200 nucleotides and BRCA1 to just around 5,500 nucleotides. Furthermore, claims 5 and 6 of the ’282 patent cover isolated DNAs, e.g., primers or probes, having as few as fifteen nucleotides of a BRCA sequence. Accordingly, BRCA1 and BRCA2 in their isolated states are different molecules from DNA that exists in the body; isolated DNA results from human intervention to cleave or synthesize a discrete portion of a native chromosomal DNA, imparting on that isolated DNA a distinctive chemical identity as compared to native DNA.

    As the above description indicates, isolated DNA is not just purified DNA. Purification makes pure what was the same material, but was combined, or contaminated, with other materials. Although isolated DNA is removed from its native cellular and chromosomal environment, it has also been manipulated chemically so as to produce a molecule that is markedly different from that which exists in the body. Accordingly, this is not a situation, as in Parke-Davis & Co. v. H.K. Mulford Co., in which purification of adrenaline resulted in the identical molecule, albeit being “for every practical purpose a new thing commercially and therapeutically.” 189 F. 95, 103 (C.C.S.D.N.Y. 1911). Judge Learned Hand’s opinion for the district court in that oft-cited case held the purified “Adrenalin” to be patent-eligible subject matter. Id. The In re Marden cases are similarly inapposite, directed as they are to the patent ineligibility of purified natural elements—ductile uranium, 47 F.2d 957 (CCPA 1931), and vanadium, 47 F.2d 958 (CCPA 1931)—that are inherently ductile in purified form. While purified natural products thus may or may not qualify for patent under 101, the isolated DNAs of the present patents constitute an a fortiori situation, where they are not only purified; they are different from the natural products in “name, character, and use.” Chakrabarty, 447 U.S. at 309-10.11.

    1. Re:promising future treatment by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      (Reply to self.)

      Dammit, wrong subject. I was going to make a joke about how this decision might lead to a promising future treatment for diseases: now that DNA is patentable, perhaps courts can enjoin viruses from misappropriating it without license.

      Instead I ran across something actually interesting in the opinion and thought better of posting a lame joke rather than something serious, but forgot to change the subject.

    2. Re:promising future treatment by Anarchduke · · Score: 1

      So does this mean I can patent a branch? I mean, I know a tree occurs in nature, but severing the branch from the tree means that it does not occur in nature.

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
    3. Re:promising future treatment by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      By that same argument, I hereby declare my intent to patent rocks cut into the shape of an iPhone. They don't exist in nature, and to my knowledge, nobody has ever made them before, so they should be worthy of a patent, right? After all, they're not the whole rock, just the part shaped like an iPhone.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    4. Re:promising future treatment by slippyblade · · Score: 1

      But then Apple will sue you for having rounded corners. Better off simply patenting a stone cube.

    5. Re:promising future treatment by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      Agreed; I don't find it convincing for basically the reason the dissent states. The majority opinion tries to distinguish "purifying" from "isolating" on the basis that "isolating" changes chemical bonds and thus produces a new molecule. But that is basically how one "purifies" a gene to remove it from its surrounding, unwanted context.

    6. Re:promising future treatment by minio · · Score: 1

      Natural DNA exists in the body as one of forty-six large, contiguous DNA molecules - No need to read further. Only this statement is simply not true on several different levels. The rest just shows that those who written this statement has no clue about biology...

    7. Re:promising future treatment by phlegmofdiscontent · · Score: 1

      So they seem to be saying that a purified sequence of nucleotides is fundamentally different than that same sequence found within a chromosome. To me, that seems rather like saying one could patent benzene (or a short polymer) because you can purify it from crude oil and it is fundamentally different than if you had a beaker full of crude oil. More abstractly, it's like saying you can patent a paragraph from a book because it's fundamentally different than the paragraph in the context of a book. Fair use, anyone?

      Personally, I think this is a terrible decision. Now, if they had a particular METHOD for purifying and replicating this sequence, they would have a valid patent. Heck, if the introns that they stick onto these sequences are proprietary, they could patent THOSE as well. Otherwise, they really are just patenting something that occurs in nature.

    8. Re:promising future treatment by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 2

      As long as you trim off any excess leaves and whatnot, you can patent a tree branch that occurs in a certain place in all trees. Especially if you have a lucrative diagnostic kit that will support lots of expensive litigation.

    9. Re:promising future treatment by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 1

      Oh they have a clue allright. They also have a clue about what lawyers, judges, and juries know about atoms, molecules, bonds, and gene sequences.

    10. Re:promising future treatment by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      Composition of matter patents, that is producing something in a new form from two or more ingredients is one of the four original types of patents, going all the way back to the Patent Act of 1790.

      Such a composition must posses new properties to be patentable.

      It would take some pretty radical changes to patent law to make what Myriad did non-patentable.

    11. Re:promising future treatment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As the above description indicates, isolated DNA is not just purified DNA. Purification makes pure what was the same material, but was combined, or contaminated, with other materials. Although isolated DNA is removed from its native cellular and chromosomal environment, it has also been manipulated chemically so as to produce a molecule that is markedly different from that which exists in the body

      This means that the DNA is not patented, but the end result of a chemical process of separation is.

    12. Re:promising future treatment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, they didn't CREATE anything, they broke DOWN something, the genes in question already existed, they didn't make NEW genes.

    13. Re:promising future treatment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry what they patented was a new composition.

      It's made by mixing two or more things together to get a 3rd. It doesn't matter if it's a additive or decomposing process to get there.

  15. Oh great, another attempt to screw the wold over? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like the US are in the process of doing with software patents?

    The plan is quite simple: Allow / Set up a new type of patent to be created, expanding the options for claiming. Give it a few years and start using political pressure to force the rest of the world to respect your new type of patents.
    Results: You give your companies & economy a few years headstart and screw the rest of the world over. Works especially well with a ridiculous disregard for prior art and a system that makes getting a patent invalidated stupidly expensive...

  16. Too Bad by connor4312 · · Score: 1

    Let's see, did they invent it? No, they discovered it. Too bad Christopher Columbus isn't around these days - he could have patented the Americas!

  17. Judges Lourie and Moore don't know DNA from shit by CuteSteveJobs · · Score: 2

    Not only is this a stupid decision - that my genes can be patented by a third party - but it's a decision which will allow the patent trolls to monopolise them and will result in many, many deaths worldwide. These judges should be ashamed of themselves on both levels.

    Judge Alan Lourie writes: “Each of the claimed molecules represents a nonnaturally occurring composition of matter.. Oh bullshit. I've noticed when lawyers try and make decisions regarding science and technology - be it copyright or biosciences - more often than not they balls it up and the public is left to bear the cost of their arrogance. In this case research will be curtailed by other scientists not wanting to go anywhere near what may be patented technology, and members of the public will die. Talk about judicial arrogance.

    It was Judges Lourie and Moore who fucked this up. Bryson dissented. With such a narrow decision I hope the victims can appeal.
    http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/10-1406_0.pdf

  18. What did you expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The corporation that "owns" the two patents is American. The court that upheld the patents is American. Enough said.

  19. lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, they are claiming in a court of law that they invented breast cancer? Shouldn't they now be sued by everyone who has ever had breast cancer?

  20. Your health doesn't matter to Myriad by fastbiker · · Score: 5, Informative

    I used to work at Myriad Genetics on their lab software and believe me they don't give a single shit about anybody's health. They care about charging exorbitant amounts for testing and counseling. Remember, these tests do not definitely tell anybody they will get cancer. They are simply and statistical indicator.

    What Myriad patented are not the genes themselves (EVERYBODY has them). What they patented are the pattern of specific mutations of the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes. It is these specific mutations (nucleotide patterns) within the genes that MAY indicate the POSSIBILITY of cancer. You have to also consider the medical and family history of a specific patient and then make a guess as to what the probability of cancer will be in the future. It's never a yes or no answer.

    To add insult to injury, the original research for finding the mutations of the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes was done by the founders of Myriad at the University of Utah which is a state school. The public paid for the original research.

    1. Re:Your health doesn't matter to Myriad by west · · Score: 1

      Isn't motivation irrelevant? After all, it doesn't affect what's offered.

      In the end, I think what's important is whether we would have these (and other) set of valuable tests if Myriad had not invested the considerable amount of money necessary to take the research from basic research to viable medical test.

      If that's the case, then the end result is that for now, a fair number of people who can afford it get the benefits now and the rest of us get it when the patent runs out, as opposed to nobody *ever* getting the benefit.

      Honestly, I don't think one can expect the government to invest billions in product development (which often fails).

      So, we're left with what works, rather than what would be optimal in an ideal world.

    2. Re:Your health doesn't matter to Myriad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What Myriad patented are not the genes themselves (EVERYBODY has them). What they patented are the pattern of specific mutations of the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes.

      It seems to me "specific mutations of the [BRCA] genes" are naturally occurring--i.e., they were discovered. This is why they are important -- because they are naturally occurring. Therefore, the patent is invalid.

      We are headed toward some seriously fucked up mess unless people recognize the concept of "IP" as being nonsense. It's like the achilles heel of the US constitution. I.e., "speech is free unless someone patents it, in which case you owe money to someone else for it." It's like some cancerous form of capitalism in which the government enforces fascism on behalf of corporations to everyone else's detriment.

    3. Re:Your health doesn't matter to Myriad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They shouldn't have been able to patent those mutations. If they had a process for viably causing those mutations, that's patentable (it'd be a process). I have no problem with them patenting the BRCA tests, either, as that's an application. And, the BRCA mutations a person has affect the expected outcomes of the diagnosis.

      But the isolated genes themselves? For fucking shame.

    4. Re:Your health doesn't matter to Myriad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once again, presumably they have a unique process or device whereby they & they alone can detect the anomaly, THAT would be patentable...they did NOT create the gene, they simply broke it off a larger molecule, in what reality should that be patentable? O sorry, we've slipped in to that reality, I think we need to shift the world back to the old one where sanity existed...if their device or process is neither unique nor patentable then all they've done is beat someone else to market, good for them but again, not everything that has not been done before is patentable...if there is enough money in it they would make their money back immediately. But not only that, not everything anyone spends scads of money on is patentable either...

    5. Re:Your health doesn't matter to Myriad by Alkonaut · · Score: 1

      Still, they didn't invent those sequences, nor have they created a device or substance related to it. The sequence and it's connection to health effects is a discovery and nothing else. They should invent a medicine and patent that. Being able to patent a "pattern"/"sequence"/"mutation" or "gene" is nonsense. I haven't heard any reasonable explanation as to why that is a good idea. Wouldn't a politician that ran on the promise to kill this sort of patent win big?

    6. Re:Your health doesn't matter to Myriad by Mattsson · · Score: 1

      The weird thing about this is that they seem to have patented the act of looking for a certain pattern, not the method used or the technical implementation of how to look for it.
      Can you really patent an act?

      Both the person who filed the patent and the person who let it pass should be put in jail for life for crimes against humanity... =P

      --
      /.Mattsson - My native language is not English, so please don't whine over linguistic errors. (That's lame anyway...)
  21. Re:Judges Lourie and Moore don't know DNA from shi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not only is this a stupid decision - that my genes can be patented by a third party - but it's a decision which will allow the patent trolls to monopolise them and will result in many, many deaths worldwide. These judges should be ashamed of themselves on both levels.

    Judge Alan Lourie writes: “Each of the claimed molecules represents a nonnaturally occurring composition of matter.. Oh bullshit. I've noticed when lawyers try and make decisions regarding science and technology - be it copyright or biosciences - more often than not they balls it up and the public is left to bear the cost of their arrogance. In this case research will be curtailed by other scientists not wanting to go anywhere near what may be patented technology, and members of the public will die. Talk about judicial arrogance.

    It was Judges Lourie and Moore who fucked this up. Bryson dissented. With such a narrow decision I hope the victims can appeal.

    http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/10-1406_0.pdf

    Although it is easy to blame mass ignorance when pointing to those appointed to sit behind a bench (which could easily be the case here), did you ever stop and consider that the decision was made with full knowledge and understanding?

    I'm not trying to purport wrongdoing in this case, but when you consider the hundreds of billions of dollars that Big Pharma (or other patent holders) stand to make with a decision like this, one cannot remove the possibility of wrongful influence. The benefit is far too one-sided to not consider it.

  22. This is bad law. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope the Supreme Court will overturn this and set precedent which
    prevents human genes from being patented.

    But given the current members of the court, I doubt that will happen.

  23. Prior Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems like the parents of someone who has the genes in question manufactured the patent in question and therefore their offspring would be prior art.

  24. Cut the Tmobile Add overlay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get rid of the TMobile adds so I can read the story!!!!

  25. Re:Yep... by Gideon+Fubar · · Score: 2

    But on the other side of things, it guarantees that America's biotechnology industry will stagnate and China's will boom. It's just a consequence of the Free Market, so that's ok right?

    --
    http://www.xkcd.com/354/
  26. Sadly... by SuperCharlie · · Score: 1

    Sadly there was a time when I was surprised by these type things.. the last 5-10 years or so.. not so much.

  27. So, by M0j0_j0j0 · · Score: 2

    Just take the test elsewhere outside the US, make the cell collection in the US, send for analysis outside.

  28. CERN needs to patent the Higgs Boson by Dr.Hair · · Score: 1

    Obviously the Higgs Boson is a non-naturally occuring subsection of a molecule which can only be detected with special equipment provided by CERN.

    Pay CERN royalties for using their patented Higgs Boson or be subject to having them forcefully removed from your use.

  29. FFS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    FYI. Farmers are already being sued out of business for having plants that naturally obtained copywrited genes. Just search for monsanto.

    For the love of all that's holy... First of all, it's copyRIGHT, not copyWRITE... as in the RIGHT to COPY. How friggin' hard is that? Secondly, Monsanto uses patents in their extortion schemes, not copyright... and really, if you even remotely understood the difference, you should be able to figure out which it was in about a tenth of a second.

    Sigh... there's Lincoln quote which seems exceedingly appropriate right now.

  30. American greed and stupidity at its worst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I have hep C. And having it makes knowing the virus load levels within my system an important measure of how well my immune system is holding up over the years. However because the shape and form of the HC virus is patented and the software to assay the virus must use its patented outline to count the virus the drug company that holds the patent to the shape of the virus can extort any one that produces software to assay this virus.

    The result is that the assay test for virus load is so expensive that only the rich that have hep c can afford to know how they are really doing fighting the virus. Even here in Canada doctors shy away from ordering the test because of cost.

    The same bullshit is holding back advancement in all forms of medicine and the largely drug and medico funded republican anti social medicine bullshit is to blame for the lack of affordable health care in the US.

    The rest of the world needs to strike down this bullshit in the UN once and for all.

  31. Going to have to agree the judges are on crack by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    Seriously, it's like saying we're slaves and the property of corporations.

    Which still aren't people.

    Canada and the EU plus ANZA ftw.

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Going to have to agree the judges are on crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe its time for another revolution.
      Preferably a non-violent one but still...

  32. Re:Smoking Crack or what the hey by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    I'm going to patent water!

    Too late, I already patented Hydrogen and Oxygen.

    You owe me royalties.

    Oh, and stop breathing.

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  33. I think now.. by wbr1 · · Score: 1

    ...that I will get my genome sequenced in its entirety. Then patent each specific gene and gene combination.
    Anyone testing to have even a fragment matching me, excepting relatives forward and backwards 2 degrees, will be henceforth subject to a cease and desist, then possible civil and criminal action for violating my IP.

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    Silence is a state of mime.
  34. Simple answer to patent reform by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    just add that anyone that tries to enforce their patent automatically invalidates said patent.

    problem solved!

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    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  35. Re:Smoking Crack or what the hey by Genda · · Score: 1

    Tsk, tsk, tsk, I just patented quarks, barions, leptons and bosons. I'll be only to happy to take that water money of your hands and OH! stop emitting photons! and keep off the grass... damn kids!

  36. U.$.A. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The mo$t pathetic country on Earth.

  37. Legal Remedies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just a question....

    Given that the company seems to have patented a gene that causes Cancer, does that mean that Cancer patients who exhibit the gene have a legal remedy?

    Could they, for instance, sue the company for the harm that the company's gene has caused them?

    Just a question.

  38. Re:Smoking Crack or what the hey by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ha! fooled you! I use light as a wave!

    Try to catch me!

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  39. USA. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    F.U.B.A.R.

  40. Why has anyone patented this? by OrangeTide · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why didn't anyone patent the business model of patent trolls? Seems pretty lucrative. If just one of them managed to pull it off, they could have sued all the other patent trolls.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Why has anyone patented this? by OwMyBrain · · Score: 2
    2. Re:Why has anyone patented this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      has been attempted... http://www.google.com/patents?id=lx-wAAAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=20080270152&source=bl&ots=518Pj5Nzoa&sig=0B8Ah70A2HJ2_SDT-TwjJsJ-CR0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YY4uUO7PFq6ayQHG-4CgCQ&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA.

      it is still pending at the office. Halliburton filed it, and I suspect they want both for fun and to use defensively.

  41. Bill Stickers by gumpish · · Score: 1
  42. It's off to see the Wizard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think this is going to SCOTUS. Patenting genes is just SO WRONG!

  43. Re:Judges Lourie and Moore don't know DNA from shi by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

    did you ever stop and consider that the decision was made with full knowledge and understanding?

    Considering the judge has lots of ties to organizations that exist only for the purpose of expanding the reach of "intellectual property".... I think you're spot on.

  44. How much do you need to pay the judges in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To get them to do these things for you?!

  45. Serious reform needed by Alkonaut · · Score: 1

    I think that as The importance of The US marken declines (it will follow the same trend for medicine that it has for cars), lawmakers will finally see that the US patent and legal systems are very detrimental for business. Companies will avoid having R&D in the US because of the massive legal overhead costs. If I can develop software/medicine/tech in Europe or Asia, and sell it there, thereby avoiding massive patent problems and legal processes then this will be a more and more attractive option. I don't know what it will take for the US to reform its patent system, but it is necessary. Likewise, as long as companies can haves portfolio of software patents that they use as leverage and threat, something is very very wrong. Imagine a country where a tech company with 100 employees create a piec of software and sell it, without ONE of these employees being a lawyer. Sounds odd? Then you are an American!

  46. I thought owning other people was slavery! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Genes are what makes people, people. When you have patents on genes, you effectively have patents on people, meaning you own them. This is slavery. Clearly a line has been crossed here, and not a good one. Patenting naturally occurring systems is wrong. Its like if I patented the sun or how to breathe air, and then turn around and make people pay me money for breathing air in a certain way (or any way). Its sick, twisted, stupid, and shouldn't be allowed. Oh wait, this is the USA we are talking about.

  47. So, they invented BRCA1 and BRCA2... by F-3582 · · Score: 1

    Can we sue them now for that deadly invention that is the #1 source of cancer mutations in women killing tens of thousands per year?

  48. Infringing human by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So if one happens to have this gene via natural mutation, would he have to get a license to live from them ?

  49. So...I could patent rare earths by bradley13 · · Score: 1

    Here's an analogy:

    Some rare earths (and lots of other elements) do not exist in their pure form in nature - they are only found in chemical compounds. If I invent a refining process to extract these elements in pure form, I can patent that process. Fair enough.

    However, this judge has said that DNA fragments have been manipulated chemically, and can therefore be patented because this new form does not exist in nature. So, by his logic, I can patent not only my refining process, but the actual chemical element that results from it.

    This guy needs to go back and take some basic science classes. Alternatively, one needs to have a hard look at his (very close) ties to the IP industry.

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    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
  50. Re:Yep... by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

    Government enforcing monopolies isn't a free market.

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    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  51. Chilling effect? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

    I feel now that I would never participate willingly in any genetic study,

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    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  52. Ignorance is no excuse by Dareth · · Score: 1

    Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. But try and represent yourself in court, and you will be told point blank you are incapable of understanding the law.

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    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  53. Contamination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this mean that I can sue the patent owners if I contract a form of cancer that is patented? After all, I will have been contaminated by their property.

  54. Pooponmybutt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now there will be an incentive to research, money.... But not a lot of people will be able to afford the treatment because of money... I say their patents expire after several years.

  55. sequencing cancer cells by pepty · · Score: 1
    It's actually a really exciting/really depressing/ asinine part of oncology right now.

    1. Your doctor sequences a bunch of cancer cells, finds out which therapies they are resistant and responsive to. Exciting!

    2. If your doctor is a lot more diligent, he realizes that your cancer is really a population of quickly mutating cells rapidly undergoing evolution to evade the therapies he pumps into you. If you're lucky, chemotherapy is faster than evolution. If you're unlucky ...

    3. Asshole "oncologists" and other doctors like Burzynski sequence your cancer cells, tell you they've come up with a custom therapy based on your unique profile, then sell you the same urine they give every other patient and charge you $250k for the privilege.

  56. As with all things patent related in this country, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    garbage in, garbage out.

  57. Legislative branch? by fufufang · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't legislative branch be deciding whether genes are patentable? Maybe nature discoveries shouldn't be patentable? This is almost like patenting a breed of sheep.