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Ask Slashdot: To AdBlock Or Not To AdBlock?

Is there an acceptable compromise to behavioral targeting? On the one hand, I don't want to be profiled by unscrupulous advertisers. On the other hand, I feel that the advertiser is the middleman between the things I care about (content) and the dollars that support those things. My compromise is to take a page out of BF Skinner's book, Walden Two, and view the situation as a sort of absurd behaviorist experiment. Basically, I Adblock everything, but whitelist the sites I support. Is this too much? Not enough? What should individuals do protect themselves, if anything at all?

135 of 716 comments (clear)

  1. Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Advertising is evil. No need to rationalize ad blocking. Kick the marketers to the curb and move on. If the site needs another source of revenue, they'll find it be it micropayments, subscriptions, etc. And if you really care about the content you can then pay to get it, and if not, nothing of value is lost.

    1. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by JosephTX · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you're one of those weird people who visits more than 3 or 4 websites a month, that model would get very expensive very quickly.

    2. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by shmlco · · Score: 5, Informative

      You may be buying the products, but that doesn't mean the web sites are receiving any revenue. Google ads and many others often only pay when clicked.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    3. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by laxr5rs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not sure advertising is "evil," but I agree that a person should do whatever they please, as they wish, just as advertisers do.

    4. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by shmlco · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Sites with less obtrusive or blatant ads will be more likely to get my business. If sites don't want me to visit with Adblock turned on, I won't visit. "

      So less obtrusive or blatant ads don't matter at all. You seem to block everything, regardless.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    5. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm not sure advertising is "evil,"

      It doesn't have to be evil to be bad.
      Instead of binary good or evil questions, we should be asking if it's in the public interest
      and whether or not the benefits outweight the negatives.

      Don't forget that advertising is commercial speech, which can be limited.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    6. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In my opinion, I think advertisers (and other personal data-gathering companies) need to be more transparent and open about what info they collect.
      What I want:
      - Let me know EXACTLY what you collect about me.
      - Let me choose what you collect.
      - Let me know how you process that data (e.g. if you use my data for personality tests and such that tells you more about me than I've told you myself, and what you learn about me this way).
      - Let me have you delete my personal data at anytime after you have collected it.
      - Let me know who you share all that data with.
      - Let me make you not share my data with specific groups, people and companies.

      Advertisers could set up a website where we volunteer personal data and retain full control over it. Targeted advertising can be good for customers, hey I'd love to know about products that might interest me. The issue is the control I retain over my data.

      But somehow, advertisers collect data about us behind our backs and work hard to keep us from knowing about it - this is suspicious. They can claim targeted advertising is good for us, and done properly I'm sure it is, but as long as they refuse to be open and co-operate with the customers then I will doubt that they really have our best interests in mind.

      Now what does this have to do with Ad Block?
      I realize websites rely on ads to keep running and I want to help. However, the way advertising is done right now, it does not satisfy me at all.
      I could suck it up and unblock ads anyway, for the sake of the websites I like, but that will never solve the problem. On the other hand, if enough people block ads, advertisers will be forced to change their methods. And the innocent websites who suffer while we block ads? Well they should be pushing for advertisers to be more transparent.

    7. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by quantaman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you're subscribing to /. then?

      --
      I stole this Sig
    8. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If sites need advertising dollars, let me just run a bot that keeps clicking that ad 24/7.

      Back in the day, that's how a lot of sites made money.

      If you want me to read the ad -
      Don't make it move
      Don't make it flash
      Don't make it obnoxious and obvious
      Don't play a sound
      Don't make it a clickthru
      Don't Block Content until the ad is done
      Allow a video choice
      Allow a bypass choice
      Do not open pop ups, Pop unders
      Do not stay frozen on a page while you scroll

      (list goes on for another 1000 things advertisers have done to force me to adblock)

      And finally, nothing is stopping the poor sod who is upset about adblocking everything and writing a check to the web site and popping it off in the mail.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    9. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by garett_spencley · · Score: 5, Insightful

      we should be asking if it's in the public interest

      This is a nitpick, but I'd rather ask if it's in any individual's interest.

      I like to differentiate between "marketing" and "advertising." If you'll bare with me for one second: marketing, as I see it, is about trying to develop relationships with customers, present or potential, and provide them a solution to a problem they have. Advertising is one single tool that can be used as part of a marketing campaign.

      As long as there is more than a single monopoly providing a given good or service then individuals really do need a way to become informed about alternatives and make decisions. I think that's where marketing comes in. And it doesn't have to be the company jumping in front of you, interrupting what you're trying to do in an attempt to get your attention. If you are, for example, shopping for a laptop you might ask your friends. If they have had a good experience with a given company, that's a form of marketing (marketing isn't trying to make a sale, it's trying to keep customers as well and get them to speak highly about their experiences). If you google "laptops" and read user reviews, maybe even go to a consumer review site, that's also marketing. And a good consumer review site will realize that people are there looking to buy things and instead of shoving ads in their face, will provide affiliate links in appropriate places so when someone decides to check out, say, "Dell Computers" the link they click on will provide a track-back to the consumer review site and the user will never think that they've just earned someone some ad revenue.

      I think there are a lot of crappy ads out there and companies that haven't the first clue how to market properly. I also think that advertising is necessary and "good." And us having this debate right now, and using ad block software etc. is also a "good thing" because it's how our opinions get shoved in the faces of advertisers. The good marketers will take notice and respond. They'll realize that making people happy in some way is the whole point of a business and that marketing is about informing choices. Not informing people who don't care, but people who are actively seeking that information.

    10. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Qwertie · · Score: 2

      What we really need is a micropayment system that makes it feasible for consumers to spend one cent per page or less, to avoid advertising without "subscribing" to a website, without the inconvenience of getting out their credit card, without having to share any private information with websites, without age restrictions (did you have a credit card at 13?). A system in which websites do not have to implement complicated paywall, billing, or log-in infrastructure, do not have to subject themselves to capricious decisions by Paypal, etc.

      Until we have such a system, advertising will have to be the main source of revenue in general.

      Ideas anyone?

    11. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by hawguy · · Score: 2

      Advertising is evil. No need to rationalize ad blocking. Kick the marketers to the curb and move on. If the site needs another source of revenue, they'll find it be it micropayments, subscriptions, etc. And if you really care about the content you can then pay to get it, and if not, nothing of value is lost.

      So are you a slashdot subscriber? It's easy to subscribe and as a subscriber you'll see no ads. Do you put your money where your mouth is, or do you block ads and let other people view them and pay for the sites you use?

      I fail to see what the big deal is about standard banner and text ads. The most annnoying ads are the ones that take over the browser window and you have to click to dismiss them, I rarely go back to sites that have those. I block all flash (not just ads) because flash is annoying, but I don't mind seeing regular ads. Ironically, there have been a number of occasions when I've glanced at an ad just as I've hit the "back" button and I saw something interesting in the ad, but there's no way to see it again. Gmail used to give you a way to scroll back and forth through the ad history (they don't seem to allow that now), but few sites give you that option. Once you leave the page, you have no way to return to the ad.

    12. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Advertising is evil

      That's a significant overreach, you can't know to buy a product without some advertising to tell you it exists.

      But if an ad is worth hosting, you can host it yourself, not have some 3rd party ad company do it for you, that's rife for abuse. If you want to have advertising on www.slashdot.org you can host the images text etc. on slashdot.org servers, and that means I hold you responsible for those ads. If they're sketchy, have pop ups or whatever, you approved it, you host it, it's on you. If some company wants to have the ads available for auction and you take the ad from their site and paste it into your server, then you approved it, you host it, it's on you.

      That still means I want to control what code of any sort runs on my machine, so no ads that use flash or javascript, ever, and things like that, but for anyone making any money in this business you can afford to host your own ads.

      Fundamentally this isn't an 'advertising is evil' problem, it's a 'advertisers are evil' and we need to limit their business models to minimize the damage they do while at the same time still allowing the legitimate need for a company to tell the world what it's products are and what they do.

    13. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by cpu6502 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      1 cent per page? I would owe $10 a day with that model. $300/month and close to $4000 a year. No. I much prefer the advertising that gives me free internet (also TV and radio). The alternative would be something like the BBC, where I'd have to pay $230 a year to watch NBC. $230 a year to watch ABC. $230 a year to watch CBS. And on and on and on. Pretty soon I'd have a $2000 bill just to watch television I currently get for free. (Add another $1000 to get cable.)

      No I prefer the ads. And believe it or not some of those ads are useful.... like the one that told me Dominoes has 50% off pizza. Or the one advertising the "Grimm" DVD. I discovered a new show. Or the one that informed me Volkswagen has finally released a diesel-powered Beetle. I was looking for a car and now I'll have one.

      --
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    14. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by hawguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, I was going to say something similar, but also, don't even worry about it. The question is dumb. If I can block the ads, then there is no moral problem with it. If a site wants to figure out a way to force them on me I'll either accept it or move on. It's evolution in action. Sites with less obtrusive or blatant ads will be more likely to get my business. If sites don't want me to visit with Adblock turned on, I won't visit. They either figure some other way to make money off me or they die.

      Couldn't that be applied to other merchants as well? There's a small produce market near me that has fresh fruit and vegetables displayed in open boxes outside along the sidewalk where anyone passing by can just grab an orange and walk away. There's (normally) not even anyone outside to monitor it and it's a pretty busy sidewalk with lots of foot traffic so I'd blend right in.

      So if I can take an orange without getting caught, I should have no moral problem with it? If they didn't want me to take the oranges, all they have to do is lock them up or keep all of the produce inside where someone can monitor it.

      Or is web content different because "information wants to be free" (even if someome is paying for it one way or another)?

    15. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by BobNET · · Score: 2

      Define your terms, please.

      All life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light would be bad.

    16. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by ceoyoyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Modern advertising is verging on evil. It's using more and more sophisticated psychological tools to manipulate masses of people into doing things detrimental to themselves and their loved ones.

    17. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by BluBrick · · Score: 2

      Define your terms, please.

      All life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light would be bad.

      How so? I'm pretty sure that no-one I know would be even slightly bothered by such an event.

      --
      Ahh - My eye!
      The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
    18. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by jamesh · · Score: 5, Informative

      So you're subscribing to /. then?

      I'm not, but Slashdot gave me a little checkbox to hide the ads anyway :)

      I don't know what all the fuss is about. Advertising is a perfectly legitimate way to fund a site if there is no other way. People will grumble about having to view ads, but most will flatly refuse to pay even a few dollars to fund the site.

      It does go too far sometimes though. I've had friends complain that they mentioned the word "diet" on a (seemingly) unrelated forum and then suddenly facebook is bombarding them with weight loss products. Targeted advertising should at least have the decency to be sneaky, not obvious. I use adblock though and have never, ever, seen an ad on Facebook. I started using adblock when all the ads made my dialup connection too slow, and have never bothered turning it off even though i'm on a much faster connection now.

    19. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by BeShaMo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The advantage you have with something like BBC, which might not be so obvious, is that when it doesn't rely on ads, you, not the advertisers become the customer. That allows for the possibility of a much broader appeal in programs and importantly (if done right) and independent media that does not have to worry about advertisers opinions, or what market segments a particular program should fit into to maximize profit.

    20. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      ...technology started making it easy for people to rip off content.

      Hm, so you're one of those people. Actually it started happening when the industry received virtually infinite copyright, ripping off the public. So fuck them.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    21. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by RandomFactor · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There are a few things it would be nice for Google to remember

      -review -expertsexchange -directory ...

      --
      --- Mercutio was right.
    22. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My guess: such a system would gravitate toward the cable television model in North America. You pay for the cable, *and* you get to watch commercials. Never underestimate their desire for more money.

    23. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 2

      1 cent per page? I would owe $10 a day with that model. $300/month and close to $4000 a year. No. I much prefer the advertising that gives me free internet

      Bingo. Frankly, I can't understand this overwhelming hatred of ads. I have the chance to hide ads on slashdot, but I haven't bothered. As I surf the web I barely notice them. They're just background noise.

    24. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you'll bare with me for one second

      I'll keep my trousers on for now, if you don't mind.

    25. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by coliverhb · · Score: 2

      AC was me, forgot to add in my original post - They also sponsor community events, and offer all of their programming for free (Pretty self explanitory as its radio) I wouldn't have become such an evangelist for them if I had to pay to hear/see/do these community events first. They have to and do PROVE their value.

    26. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by fm6 · · Score: 2

      I share your contempt for the big media monopolies. (Promoting infinite copyright is only one of their many sins.) But not every content provider is an arm of Time Warner or Disney.

    27. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by honestmonkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I was going to say I shouldn't have to point out how stupid your argument is, but considering how stupid it is I guess I must. Point it out. The stupidity, that is. What you suggest is stealing. What I am doing is merely averting my eyes. I don't have to look at the goddamn ads. Fuck 'em if they can't come up with some other way to make money. To belabor the point, what am I stealing by not looking at ads? Should the police come to my house and arrest me if I throw the ads from the newspaper away without reading them all first? Fuck that.

      --
      Everything you know is wrong, Just forget the words and sing along.
    28. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by humanrev · · Score: 4, Funny

      What are you talking about? Modern advertising is nothing more sophisticated than [SMOKE!] the use of techniques that have existed for yes. The only difference [SMMOOOOKKKEE!] is that they're somewhat more refined and widespread now thanks to technology [ARE YOU SMOKING YET?]

      --
      Most people on Slashdot are fucking idiots.
    29. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Damn I need a smoke.

    30. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Nikker · · Score: 3

      I don't see how you can debate your point one way or the other. You don't know how much money anyone is making or losing.

      The most difficult thing to get in a business is clientele. If you have clientele in the hundreds of thousands per day or more and you can't find a way to make even a couple of bucks a month then you need to put the keyboard down and sell the place.

      Sell a T-Shirt and maybe sweeten the deal by offering a free coffee or NFC related payment towards a beverage on a specific day of the month if they show up wearing your swag. Maybe offer a shiny gold star beside the username of a paying customer. Really do what ever you want, that's the whole idea.

      But if you are going to give you clientele crap for avoiding a tactic (such as AD based rev) then you will definitely get what you truly deserve.

      --
      A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
    31. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by hawguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its more like reading a free newspaper but not reading the advertisements. Wait, what was the moral dilemma again?

      Well, it's more someone gathering up a bunch of free newspapers, cutting out all of the ads, then handing out the newspapers to anyone that wants them.

      No one is saying you need to read all of the ads, but the ads are there and your eyes may stray to one while you're reading the paper, and that's what the advertisers are paying for -- the chance that you'll find their ad interesting enough to read it and ultimately purchase what they are selling.

    32. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by anubi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree with you about the ads. I hesitated for the longest time putting in ad-blocking technology, as I felt the same issue as the orange vendor mentioned in the parent. If the webmaster supported his page with ads, by golly I wasn't going out of my way to block them.

      Then I started paying in ways I had not imagined. I was complaining on Slashdot on the Firefox memory leak topic, about catching viruses and forced reboots because of memory leaks. A generous fellow slashdotter offered his advice to install NoScript. Frustrated at all the problems "thinking outside the box" script programmers were causing for me, I went ahead and installed NoScript. Its made a big difference. It wasn't the ads I was trying to block, rather it was the scripts they were launching doing only God-knows-what. If a webmaster wants me to see an ad, I have no problem at all with that. Running an unknown script with unknown intentions is a horse of a different color. Especially when they misbehave, cause me problems, and force me to reboot to clean up the mess so the system runs again.

      It was not the ad which caused me to install blocking technology, rather it was the abuse of the scripting system by unscrupulous scriptwriters.

      Back to the orange vendor analogy, people might be highly motivated to steal the oranges rather than pay for them if attempting to pay for one resulted in the vendor spraying them with tar at the cash register. The honest guy who paid finds himself having to go clean himself off, while the thief got off scot-free.

      The abuse of payment systems is the main reason I am extremely leery of paying for anything on the web. I have a few trusted sites I will deal with, as I feel I go at substantial risk to reveal bank codes and payment authorizations to a vendor. Knowing the abuse rampant on the net, I am even leery of revealing my name or email address, much less payment credentials.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    33. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by TubeSteak · · Score: 2

      All life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light would be bad.

      I would have gone with "stubbing my toe is bad," but that works too :p

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    34. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by mianne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But if such micropayments were automatic, then you can bet there'd be plenty of unscrupulous webmasters embedding thousands of 1x1 iFrames into their sites, Javascript auto-refreshes every couple of seconds, botnets and so on. It'd become more profitable to wring lots of loose change from unsuspecting web users than current phishing scams.

      If you have to authorize micropayments to each website you read on a regular basis, then we're back to square one, and we already have systems like the PayPal Donate button or the Amazon Tip Jar in place.

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    35. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by epyT-R · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People are not obligated to make you money. They brought their bandwidth and you brought yours.. They pay for their bandwidth.. You pay for yours.

    36. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, but come on - do you want to watch dull stuff produced by stiff, government lackeys like the BBC or stuff like Toddlers and Tiaras that is brought you by the free market?

    37. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by kernelfoobar · · Score: 2

      Well, it's more someone gathering up a bunch of free newspapers, cutting out all of the ads, then handing out the newspapers to anyone that wants them.

      No one is saying you need to read all of the ads, but the ads are there and your eyes may stray to one while you're reading the paper, and that's what the advertisers are paying for -- the chance that you'll find their ad interesting enough to read it and ultimately purchase what they are selling.

      Well, it's actually: someone gives you a template to put over the pages that lets you view the content with the ads blocked out. That's it. This has nothing to do with gathering or giving out newspapers.

      --
      Here we go again!
    38. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by epyT-R · · Score: 4, Insightful

      actually advertising models are the best way to ensure the broadest most 'accessible' programming possible because advertisers want the most eyeballs possible. It is not what we need.. we need narrower, more focused, deeper entertainment targeted at different audiences.. Almost all of tv is targeted at the bottom barrel commonalities to ensure wide adoption, and it results in the most bland, boring programming imaginable.

    39. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by starfishsystems · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can't know to buy a product without some advertising to tell you it exists.

      That's not a claim that can withstand much scrutiny. It's simply, comprehensively, untrue.

      People can, and routinely do, live perfectly well without any advertizing at all. They buy things they need, having noticed a need for something. It's rarely in their interest to buy something merely because some stranger happens to tell them that they need it.

      If I need groceries, I know how to visit a grocery store. If I need a box of M10x40 socket head cap screws in type 316 stainless steel, I'll go to a fastener store. From the mundane to the exotic, it's simply not a problem. No advertizing is required.

      --
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    40. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by crywalt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's the obvious point to make here that advertising doesn't make things free. It just hides the cost from you. Chances are you're paying well over $4000 a year in increased costs of everything from Coca-Cola to cars to support advertising.

    41. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by EdIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Advertising isn't evil

      Yes, it is. The very definition of evil applies to advertising.

      Advertising:

      1) Uses deceit to further its own agenda.
      2) Manipulates other people through lies and distortions of the truth.

      Whatever you think is good about advertising, is not. It may have manipulated you into thinking it was valuable information, but the information it provides is never useful to an informed purchasing decision.

      Do some people benefit? Sure. Just like Swiss bankers benefited from Nazi's stealing the wealth of the people they just abused and killed. Strong analogy I know, but apt. Just because a site benefits from it does not mean advertising has some sort of redeeming virtue because of it.

      It is truly a disgusting, wasteful, and shameful blight on humanity at this point. The sooner we can move past such behaviors, the better.

      You ever see a description of Utopia that included advertising? Yeah, me neither.

    42. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by epyT-R · · Score: 5, Insightful

      1. users brought their bandwidth. you brought yours. the users are not required to pay for yours too. they are not required to ensure you make money either.

      2. because when you put content up on a publicly accessible server, by default you've given permission for people to pull data from it.. Once that data enters their computers, you have no say in what happens. The internet is not cable television no matter how hard marketing droids try to make it that way. It's a good thing, really.

    43. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Either way you are talking about someone's business model. A model I don't have to support. They HOPE I'll view the ad, they HOPE I'll click on it, or just glance at it or whatever. So what? I control what my browser displays. I control what gets downloaded to my computer. I control the size of the font, whether pictures are displayed, what color everything is in. I control all of it. And their BUSINESS MODEL is that they HOPE I'll see their shit. That is a piece of shit BUSINESS MODEL that I DON"T HAVE TO PARTICIPATE IN. AT ALL. EVER. They don't like it, they are free to try something else to get my attention, or try someone else, or ban me from their website, or whatever they might think of to make money. But they can't force me to download their shit if I don't want to.

      But you are participating in it -- Slashdot is one of those sites that has the annoying advertiser supported business model. I don't know their subscriber rates but I can't imagine it's very high. Are you a Slashdot subscriber? It only costs half a cent per page to subscribe and you don't need to see any ads, but you can still support the site. Do you?

      Why the fuck do you care about someone else's business model? Isn't this Slashdot? Screw the buggy whip manufacturers, and the RIAA middle men and all that? I do not give a shit about advertisers. If they can't survive, and the website closes down, I AM FINE WITH THAT. I am stealing nothing. Fuck them if they can't take it.

      I care because I like having just about every site on the internet provide content for "free". I don't see any other way for so many sites to provide such content without advertising. I certainly don't want to have to set up a page-view account and have my account balance dinged half a cent for every page view.

      If you're so fine with the website shutting down because you don't care about how they make money, why do you visit them at all? If you know a website relies on a business model that you don't approve of and you really don't care if they shut down, why don't you just stop visiting that site?

    44. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Mitreya · · Score: 2

      Advertising is a perfectly legitimate way to fund a site if there is no other way. ... It does go too far sometimes though.

      I don't think you are even coming close to examples of "too far" here
      Too far is when 2 full fledged videos start playing when the page loads. Plus a float window opening over article text with another video in it and sometimes popups in addition to that. And at least one of the ads is playing full blast sound. That does wonders when I am trying to listen to music while browsing!
      Yes, advertising is a perfectly legitimate way to fund a site, but things like flashblock were not born to combat small unobtrusive google-esque ads. The amount of abuse even on reasonably legitimate sites is too great.

    45. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Your.Master · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you move to a new city and want to know where the fastener store, you'll either ask somebody (word of mouth advertising), or look it up in a directory (print advertising). Or possibly just wander around until you see a sign (street advertising).

      I think you have a very limited view of what advertising is.

    46. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by plover · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, there's a marketing aspect that's definitely not in my best interest, and that is google analytics and other trackers. Combined with data from shopping.com, or any participating merchant site, It can tell a marketer not only what I bought and how much I paid for it, but more importantly which sites I went to before I pulled the trigger. It can tell them exactly what searches and browsing patterns led me to this decision. If I searched for "water heater 50 gallon warranty sucks forum", attempting to find out what people think when they have warranty troubles, then read waterHeaterReviews.com they'll happily sell that data to an SEO marketer who then salts the top listed forums with shills posting useless crap like "My 50 gallon WetWillie 2000 water heater has a great warranty, and it doesn't suck." It poisons my ability to do a search I can trust to be somewhat independent of the planted lies.

      So I use NoScript, Ghostery, and AdBlock Plus to block scripts, trackers, social networking links, flash, and ads which all serve the same purpose of assisting marketers to anticipate my moves. I won't even consider IE or Chrome, as neither offers effective privacy extensions. And I've even stopped using Google as my primary search engine, instead preferring duckduckgo.com. As far as I can tell they're trying to be honest, which sadly isn't saying much. But at least they're not Google.

      I used to care more about denying ad revenue to sites, but I got over it once crap like XSS and CSRF attacks started trickling through advertisers on otherwise respectable sites. Do I feel guilty? Well, I still tithe Slashdot a few times a year. I'll click on Amazon referrer links to buy books from authors I like. And I do not install ad blockers for anyone else, nor do I tell non-technical people how to do it. They can do all the monkey punching they want, go support the ad bandits, do whatever. I'll happily let them foot the bills I am no longer willing to pay.

      --
      John
    47. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by EdIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When did advertising suddenly become evil, after 300+ years of being the main revenue source for most media?

      It was not sudden. Advertising has always been evil. In fact, it was much less evil for awhile with all the restrictive laws we put in place that governed what advertisers could actually say. Now advertisers are hell bent on destroying whatever shred of privacy we had left for the "big data" quest.

      There is nothing about advertising that is truthful. It is all deception and manipulation, and quite frankly, at this point in affront to any intelligent human being.

      So people like you need to rationalize their selfish behavior, and invented a new, not very logical, moral model.

      Utter bullshit.

      I am either receiving the content for free, or I have purchased a license to the content, or I am viewing it with somebody who has. There is nothing, ever, that has constrained me with how I choose to view the content . Nothing in society, or copyright law, has ever, not once, not even for a minute, obligated me to watch the commercials.

      It's not selfish. I don't want to see that fucking crap, so I am not going to. Simple as that. What next? I might as well be killing babies because I will never click on an advertisement?

      Mind you, I'd love to see content providers start relying on payments from readers

      Now that is the only sensible and worthwhile thing you have said. My subscription to Slashdot is not current, but I have had a few. Penny Arcade recently did something on Kickstarter to be advertisement free for a year as one of the goals. Was too late for it, but I do support Penny Arcade with some merch here and there.

      I also hope for different models that allow us as society to move back to a more patronage type model to support content producers directly. Fuck the middle men. They demand unreasonable prices and use the insane amounts of money and power they have to influence laws that are just horrible for society to unjustly enrich themselves.

      BTW, the only reason ad-blocking even works is that only a few techies know how to do it

      Wrong. There are plenty of people that only knew how to search for an extension called Adblock and install it. You don't have to be a techie anymore to do it.

      As for content providers that do block me, I just ignore them. CNN videos is a good example, as well as Hulu. Fine, I get my content elsewhere. 99% of everything on CNN can be found with a quick search elsewhere, and Hulu has too many advertisements as it is. Might as well be a cable subscription.

      when technology started making it easy for people to rip off content

      That sounds an awful lot like saying it was stolen, which again, means that is bullshit. You can't steal content, and in your case, you really just mean the content was not consumed in the exact manner you wished for. Which, that is deeply unethical and immoral. If you also feel that way and want to push for technology and laws to force me, then you are the true enemy of society.

      You are fighting a losing battle. Other than a few, sparse, very sparse, edge cases, nobody wants advertising. Gee... I wonder why. Perhaps because most people realize that they are an insult to their intelligence and a waste of their time because they impart nothing useful and only seek to manipulate them?

      It's illogical and immoral to skip past that stuff huh?

    48. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by wvmarle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Totally agreed.

      Over the years I now and then upgraded my system, getting a cleanly installed OS, with an extension-less Firefox.

      Pop-ups/unders are nicely taken care of by FF and are not an issue. The somewhat sensible pop-ups (link that legitimately opens a new window) are pushed into tabs, and that's fine.

      Yet it's the ads that always make me install FlashBlock very soon. Flashing, jumping, hovering over content (those are maybe even the worst): they irritate me, they distract me from reading the actual content, sometimes make it near impossible due to being so distracting flashing or moving around and blocking text that I want to read. Get rid of those Flash ads and my life improves a lot. And no I'm not going to uninstall Flash as too many sites depend on it, and I don't want to mess around with workarounds to watch a YouTube video or so.

      FlashBlock is mostly enough, it blocks the vast majority of irritations.

      Though when I'm busy installing extensions, I'll get ABP too. Unfortunately it has no general option of "allow non-intrusive ads" that I know of. Static images or text ads, those are OK. OTOH I don't exactly miss them either, so I can't be bothered too much.

    49. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by quadrox · · Score: 2

      In theory - and I realize that for the most part it is strictly theoretical - advertising can consist of information without distorting reality or lying. I would not classify such advertising as evil.

      I wish there was a law that forbade anything but dissemination of simple facts in advertising. No smiling people, no crass attention seeking colors, no selling on emotions of any kind. You can inform that product xyz is available now and you may list facts that are verifiable/repeatable in the scientific sense. No more.

    50. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who cares about the advertisers? The less knowledgable users of the web can subsidise everyone else (at no cost to themselves) by viewing the advertising. I have the means to avoid it. If I want something then I'll go and look for it and do some independent research, if I don't know about 'it' then chances are I didn't need it and would be wasting my money buying it.

    51. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Omestes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How much do you really care for anything on the internet? For a lot of sites their value is in large number of user. Subscriptions or other form of payment can lead to drop in users thus loss in value.

      This line of reasoning is a flavor of what I like to call the "RIAA fallacy"; if no one pays there will be no content. I doubt this, I've been on the Web (and general internet before that, and BBSs before that) for a long time, and most of that time was ad free. Sure, there was less stuff out there, but stuff was still out there. People who want to be heard will still produce content, and people who want something more will pay for it (even in highschool I threw money at "free" BBSs for perks, or just to promote the continued existence of my community). The internet pre-exists the advertising model.

      Further, Your number 5 is a bit off. Not all sites are businesses. And many of them that are, can die, for all I care. I can live happily without Facebook, or Coke.com... If they want to survive they might have to mirror real businesses, and offer a product that is worth money. And, just to add some snark to the discussion; if people don't want to pay for it, was it really that important? Value is what I'm willing to pay, if I'm not willing, there is no value, and thus nothing of value was lost.

      This also points to the fact (Kant be damned), that even if I completely block all ads and trackers there still will be enough people who don't to keep things running. Sure, there might be less eye-ball money floating around, but things will tick on without me being forced to contend with all the problems of ads. If your product isn't good enough to have been recommended to me by live people who had positive experiences, I probably don't want it. As such, I'm not even hurting people, since I wouldn't buy your product anyways, in fact advertisement makes me hostile to your brand.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    52. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by __aarzwb9394 · · Score: 2

      You should be aware of the following:
      The BBC has 6 national tv stations,
      8 national radio networks and over 20 local radio stations.
      ALL of the above are ad-free.
      It is not very useful to compare the BBC to a single US television network.

    53. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why are you searching for expert sex changes?

    54. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by broken_chaos · · Score: 2

      Or the one that informed me Volkswagen has finally released a diesel-powered Beetle.

      They were running internet ads for this in ~1998?

    55. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Informative

      Either way, you're getting some benefit (i.e. viewing a website) without paying for it. How is that not stealing?

      It's not stealing because the provider of that website provides that benefit to me without requesting payment. There is no contract, either explicit or implied, that requires me to watch ads in exchange for the benefit provided.

    56. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by mister_dave · · Score: 3, Informative

      when it doesn't rely on ads, you, not the advertisers become the customer.

      No.

      The BBC get their revenue from a government monopoly. They schmooze the government of the day when their charter comes up for renewal. They pay zero attention to customer complaints.

    57. Re:Just block all ads and don't worry about it by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      In the end its all moot as long as websites allow ads from third party servers with zero control or accountability. What is one of the biggest if not the biggest malware vector? Infected ads. If they want to have some Google text ads or even static jpegs I have zero problem with that and will happily unblock them, but as long as they are running these JavaScript from hell? Then screw 'em, no way I'm gonna risk infecting my system just so you can show some ads.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  2. I just block by TrumpetPower! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hate advertising in all forms, including that from vendors whom I might otherwise like. I'd much rather live in a world without advertising than one with one. So, for me, that's basically the world I live in.

    No, I don't care that your revenue depends on advertising. I don't want your buggy whips, even if they're "free," even if you won't give me stuff for "free" unless I take a buggy whip. Find some other way to pay the bills.

    And I don't think my attitude is at all outrageous or selfish. Would you accept "free" cake that came topped with "free" output from the sewage plant because that was the only way they could dispose of the waste? Would you feel guilty about decontaminating the cake before eating it? If you couldn't decontaminate the cake, would you still eat it anyway?

    Cheers,

    b&

    --
    All but God can prove this sentence true.
    1. Re:I just block by stevedog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Things of value require money, and money has to come from somewhere. Are you really saying you would prefer to pay for content directly, rather than to have an unobtrusive and moderately relevant ad that you can easily ignore?

      Here on Slashdot, we have the alternative option to give our own contributions + good behavior, measured in the form of karma. That doesn't work on all sites, though, and even Slashdot would be unsustainable if no one viewed the ads; the only reason their model is sustainable is because positive-karma contributions presumably increase the value of the site, thus increasing its viewership, thus increasing the total number of ad-views enough to keep the site afloat. If everyone on the Internet adblocked, Slashdot would lose that revenue stream.

      There's no such thing as a free lunch. If you don't want to be profiled by having your online behavior tracked, and you don't want to pay for the product (see outrage over NYT paywall), and you don't want to view ads... what of similar value would you prefer to give?

    2. Re:I just block by pla · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Advertising != forcing you to buy it.

      Worse than that - Advertising motivates me to make a point of never buying it. Ads absolutely infuriate me, the less obtrusive ones, less so.

      If you find a magic formula to get my attention with an ad, congratulations, you have just lost me as a customer forever.

      I block ads because they waste my, and the sites, bandwidth. I have zero chance of ever clicking an ad, or buying a product based on "impressions".

      Don't like it? Go bankrupt. Because realistically, those describe your two choices - Accept that some fraction of people will block your ads no matter what, or stop producing content and let someone else fill your niche.

      And in case you wonder - Nope, I don't feel "bad" about this. If Slashdot vanished tomorrow, another "news for nerds" site would take its place overnight.

    3. Re:I just block by scot4875 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Banks make money through loans, with our without the use of credit cards. That's their whole business.

      No, it's not even close to their whole business. Thanks for playing though! And no, I'm not going to look up links for you; there's really no excuse for this kind of ignorance when you have access to the internet.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    4. Re:I just block by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 2

      If I need a thing to do X I will hunt one down. Fuck your advertising. I could care less about anything that relies on advertising to support itself. Whatever it is, I don't need it, and if it disappeared I could care less. Oh no! Slashdot went away. Boohoo. I can't watch So You Think You Can Dance anymore??! The tragedy!! All the shit in the world that exists solely to help sell products that people don't need can quite happily disappear. You believe that you can't live without all the "free" services that ad revenue provides. You think you're immune to the subconscious programming that advertising does to you. Block the ads, let some other sheep get brainwashed, take advantage while you can...

    5. Re:I just block by linatux · · Score: 2

      I'm not going to click on the ad, so why would I want it displayed? If I want a product, I can search for it.
      Adblock stops me getting annoyed by unwanted material. If someone loses because of that, they might want to pay-per-click instead of pay-per-serve?

    6. Re:I just block by jeff4747 · · Score: 2

      If Slashdot vanished tomorrow, another "news for nerds" site would take its place overnight

      Why?

      You've got proof that you can't make any money aggregating "news for nerds". So why on earth would someone create a new one?

      Hey....that comic book store just went out of business....clearly we need to rent the space and open a comic book store!!!

    7. Re:I just block by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2

      must get and use a credit card because that's the way banks make money

      another way to make money or be gone....same for the web sites that use it.

      That was some good crazy. In 1.5 lines you went from saying a company can only have one business model, to saying if a current business model isn't working creative people will find a new one.

      If you want banks to exist, which despite the present circumstance, we do, then you need to provide them a viable business model. We could simply require that in exchange for storing peoples money "banks" get a monopoly on strippers, and so they make money on strippers but provide the service of storing money. I can't see how that plan could ever possibly work out well, but you get the idea.

      Big websites I don't have a lot of sympathy for, they shouldn't be using a 3rd party advertising company to host their ads. The harder ones to deal with are the people who have a website/blog that costs say 1000 bucks a month to run, which is too much to expect someone to just contribute it to the good of society if they like having a website, and too little to have people dedicated to advertising. Adwords and doubleclick both serve that market without any obvious replacements that wouldn't have the same problems. This is where an alternate business model (like googles blogspot service) makes sense, you host through blogspot, adwords and doubleclick are all on googles blogspot. Google actually owns the advertising, the hosting etc. and can pay you for your content based on the revenue you generate, but the ads service would then be confined to google. Of course google is so big being confined 'only to google' isn't really much comfort, but then at least there's only a handful of big companies you need to regulate, and not thousands of little ones.

      I specifically went down a list of google owned services because they exemplify what is wrong with the business model, (and the one thing you got right in your crazy). Credit cards, which are a generally unfair business, pad the coffers of the banks who offer competing but much more fair (and well regulated) services. If I take a loan from the bank right now for 5000, I can get it at somewhere between 3 and 7%, but if I borrow 5000 dollars on my credit card I get it at 22%. Same basic service, same usage from my perspective as an end user, but in one scenario the bank is restricted in its ability to try and layer on points, rewards and other stuff that would get you to borrow more money at the low interest rate, while they are less restricted with credit cards.

      Most, if not all of the 3rd party ad services are just plain unfair businesses, with poor regulation. And that's bad for consumers. But there are also similar services, from the same companies, that are less sketchy. Until we're at a point where the ads you see will be from non sketchy business practices the vast majority of the time you simply have to block anything that even might be sketchy.

    8. Re:I just block by jmerlin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is that getting revenue from advertisements changes who your customer is. No longer is it your viewers and website visitors, rather the people paying you the big bucks to violate the privacy and potentially security of your visitors. It also gives advertisers the power to control your business since they pay for it.

    9. Re:I just block by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      "Things of value require money, and money has to come from somewhere. Are you really saying you would prefer to pay for content directly, rather than to have an unobtrusive and moderately relevant ad that you can easily ignore?"

      Absolutely. If we all just paid for things that are currently ad supported, and got rid of all the gratuitous advertising, EVERYTHING would be cheaper, we'd all come out ahead, and all the people wasting their lives trying to manipulate us into buying things could do something useful instead.

    10. Re:I just block by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If I want a product, I can search for it

      Earlier this summer I saw an ad for a "Thomas and Friends" train ride in a town an hour from here. Took my kids, they loved it. It was fun. How the smeg would I have even known about it without having seen an ad? You suggesting I should have randomly searched and spontaneously discovered it?

    11. Re:I just block by Mandrel · · Score: 2

      Earlier this summer I saw an ad for a "Thomas and Friends" train ride in a town an hour from here. Took my kids, they loved it. It was fun. How the smeg would I have even known about it without having seen an ad? You suggesting I should have randomly searched and spontaneously discovered it?

      You could have found out about the train ride from reading an article in a publication or a post in a forum. You can be more confident of a good time if such an independent source say's that it's fun. The publication is rewarded for its work either by you buying it, or by getting an affiliate payment from the train ride for the help it gave to someone who ended up being a customer. Or an amateur online forum may just be run as a hobby, with goodwill and the odd donation the only rewards.

      Or you may use a search engine to look for kids' activities, come across the train ride in an organic result (a website is a good form of advertising), or in the search engine ads (sure, the activities that pay the search engine the most will be the most prominent, but at least the ads are delivered to you on-demand, rather than pushed to you around other content).

    12. Re:I just block by msimm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      *cough*

      As someone who's created (and supported) several websites (and developed a few platforms)...I'd just like to say that by no means would the world wide web and some of the wonderful technologies we have today disappear in the absence of ad based monetization. It might look different, but I see no reason to suspect that commoditization is tied to creative innovation.

      Carry on. :-)

      --
      Quack, quack.
    13. Re:I just block by Omestes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You've got proof that you can't make any money aggregating "news for nerds". So why on earth would someone create a new one?

      There was an internet before the ad infestation. If people have something to say, they will say it.

      As I pointed out earlier in this topic, this is what I call the RIAA Fallacy; the false idea that if no one pays there will be no content. Luckily there was content before ads, and luckily there was music before albums and labels.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  3. Everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I AdBlock everything. One, I dislike looking at ads. Two, I dislike business models that are based on ads.

    I don't care if AdBlock destroys the Internet as we know it. The Internet as we know it could use a little constructive destruction.

    1. Re:Everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "I don't care if AdBlock destroys the Internet as we know it."

          For the first few years that I was on the Internet, I never saw an ad. That's because _There weren't any ads_!
          Now I AdBlock, Flashblock and do whatever it takes to keep me from looking at ads. If ads went away, and we lost Slashdot, TheRegister, the IMDB... well not much would be lost in the Grand Scheme Of Things. If the Internet shrank to 1% of it's present size because of a lack of advertising, it would be a much more pleasant place. I would still get my literature, my Fine Art pix, my music, just as I did over 20 years ago. From sites run by enthusiastic, decent, intelligent volunteers. (Well, decent except for the Fine Art bits...) After all, enthusiastic, decent, intelligent volunteers created the Internet in the first place.

          Advertising just appeals to the stupid, and the even more stupid who actually base purchasing decisions based on ads.

    2. Re:Everything by massysett · · Score: 2

      Two, I dislike business models that are based on ads.

      Therefore, you routinely visit websites whose business models are based on ads?

    3. Re:Everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Way back in the day, some legitimate companies tried to use newsgroups to advertise. It did not go so well. They underestimated the concept of unmoderated uncontrollable feedback.

      About the OP question, should he unblock ads from companies he likes, my answer is no, cut out the middle man and just buy their products. Seeing their ads means nothing to them if you are not actually buying their products.

    4. Re:Everything by tftp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So what's the business model you'd prefer then?

      1. Personal Web sites with projects, ramblings, writings and stuff
      2. Noncommercial Web sites existing as a free service in a paid membership (ARRL.org)
      3. Commercial Web sites that directly sell products (mouser.com for example)
      4. Commercial Web sites that advertise products made by the company in question (www.sony.com)
      5. Commercial Web sites that are useful enough so that users subscribe to them (some newspapers; Toyota's service manuals)
      6. Commercial Web sites that allow public access to information on a lesser level than the paid access (Reuters can publish week-old news for free, and charge newspapers an arm and a leg for instant news)
      7. I'm sure there are other viable scenarios.

      I personally have a Web site where I sell a commercial product and where I offer free products (GPL designs.) There are no ads on my Web site, and no trackers (except Google Analytics ... I guess I should remove that.)

    5. Re:Everything by BigBunion · · Score: 2

      You had me right up until Sony.

    6. Re:Everything by IntlHarvester · · Score: 2

      That's obviously not his concern. Google offers free analytics (previously an expensive service) because they can use his traffic to advertise to his users, based on his own site's content. If you happen to be against the whole idea of ad-supported sites, it's kinda silly to hand over user behavior data to an advertising company.

      --
      Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
  4. Advertising by RyanFenton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I fully support adblock plus - It's a fully transformative experience compared to browsing without it. Pages load quicker, load without the random long-pauses from faulty ad servers, and from not having to traverse dozens of servers just for a small amount content.

    That, and your view is uncluttered with intentionally misleading images, many kinds of annoying sound and images, and countless script-based frustrations that advertisers are ever-increasingly willing to push on their prospective customers.

    Simply put, AdBlockers do an amazing job at helping me retain some minimal level comfort that humanity can sometimes retain some motivations greater than misleading manipulation - even if you have to filter your view to extensively to see that sometimes.

    Ryan Fenton

    1. Re:Advertising by trawg · · Score: 2

      So why don't you just not go to those sites that are slow and irritating and have misleading images? It's not like there's a dearth of websites online for every topic imaginable.

      We run a website about video games. For more than 10 years it has JUST generated enough revenue to employ the staff that manage it. All the revenue comes from advertising. It is primarily a hobby for us.

      People who wantonly block ads on every site do damage to our site, where we do whatever we can to keep the ads unobtrusive and related to our content (so we deal with a lot of video game publishers, tech sites, etc). We don't have popups, we try to avoid obnoxious dancing monkeys, etc.

      But every person who just installs a generic ad blocker and then comes to our site is another set of eyeballs that don't get delivered an ad, and it literally means we don't make money.

      If people don't like our site, they can go elsewhere to one of the myriad other gaming sites out there. However, we provide a generally pretty clean download experience for the latest trailers, patches, demos, clients, etc. It costs us a fortune (...comparatively, because we're hosted in Australia) to deliver a 4GB game download to thousands of users around the planet. All we're asking for is a few seconds of your consciousness - and yes, maybe a few hundred milliseconds of loadtime and a couple extra KB in transfer - in return so we can make deals with advertisers and continue to fund and grow our business.

      Rather than block ads, I'd rather people simply stopped coming to our site and went elsewhere to use their services.

  5. No bad conscience by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not like I would ever click one of those ads anyway.

    1. Re:No bad conscience by trawg · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We run a website about video games. 100% of our revenue comes from online advertising. From our statistics when using Google AdWords, somewhere between 1-3% of users on a typical day will click on an ad.

      Just like spam, there is a tiny percentage of people that do see some value in whatever is put in front of their face. There's this overwhelming trend on Slashdot that goes "well, I've never clicked on an ad, therefore, noone else has". People click on ads. People buy products based on ad clicks. This is how Google make money. This is how Google's ad customers sell products.

      Just because you don't click on an ad - IMHO - doesn't mean you should just block all ads for ever. Small sites like us that work really hard to provide useful content and services that depend on advertising depend on these ad delivery numbers to drive ad sales and generate revenue.

      Why haven't we got a system where people can pay to opt out? Well, we're working on that. But I want to keep the website free. I think the tradeoff - a few hundred milliseconds of page load time, a few hundred KB of bandwidth, plus maybe the tiniest percentage of your attention possible (maybe even zero) means we can continue to deliver stuff to you and other users, for free.

  6. My two cents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Simply by asking question, you are committed to doing the right thing. Follow your morals.

    Also, by my reasoning you are a better person than me. I did not consider unblocking, even after reading this:

    http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love/

    1. Re:My two cents... by Larryish · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Adblock is good for blocking annoying site headers or site images and to block the remote advertisers that it comes with by default in the subscription.

      I rarely block ads that adblock doesn't catch (such as those hosted on the same server as the website) unless it is a cycle-stealing piece of shi^H^H^Hflash.

    2. Re:My two cents... by JohnVanVliet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      /. already has an option to not view ad's

      i have ad block disabled on this site ( and ars tech )
      no-script is even allowing on /.

      personal opinion in to allow the TOP level domain ONLY
      if an add wants to run a script -- NO WAY

       

      --
      "I don't pitch OpenSUSE Linux to my friends, i let Microsoft do it for me
    3. Re:My two cents... by Mitreya · · Score: 3, Insightful

      personal opinion in to allow the TOP level domain ONLY if an add wants to run a script -- NO WAY

      Too many (legitimate) sites use 3rd party domain to process what you need (hotel booking, payment processing, etc.)
      And if I want the service of the website, I need to play the guessing game of which domain besides the top-level one actually needs to run a script...

    4. Re:My two cents... by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Adblock normally only blocks ads that are pulled in externally. If your favorite website wants to show an image from its own server with a link underneath then Adblock probably won't touch it.

      I'd say Adblock is only blocking the ads that need blocking - the sort of ads which turn decent sites into whores.

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re:My two cents... by TheCarp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Did people who bought refridgerators hurt the ice men?

      Just because somebody comes up with a scheme for monetizing what he does, which is based on what he expects me to do, doesn't mean I am somehow required to do what he expects me to do.

      Its up to my browser how a page is rendered, what elements get loaded, what don't, what the format is. That was the agreement from day 1 on the web. Its how the entire client-server model works. They exchange data, and either side does with it as he pleases.

      Advertising is based on commonly correct, but utterly unfounded ideas about how clients will render websites, including that they will load just anything they are pointed to. Clearly a falsehood, in this day.

      Its wrong to conflate liking someoneone or liking what they do, with having some obligation to help them do it in the way that they want. Maybe my business model is to hand out free roses to people by the side of the road, in exchange for which I expect people to freely donate to me all of their worldly wealth and posessions. Will you comply with my expectation just because I handed you a flower?

      Why is that absurd but its not absurd to think you can continually give people content they don't want, and expect them to look at it? Would we say the same about the people who skip the ads in the newspaper? Or people who use the grocery circulars that are mailed to them to line bird cages instead of reading them?

      These people have decided to fund themselves based on unwarranted assumptions.... then complain when their assumption doesn't pan out.

      Personally tho...I don't block ads execpt what noscript + requestpolicy blocks (which is alot) but, when i see ads, I take a whole different take. I figure, I should click on the ads I don't like...that way the people running them get to pay more to support the sites that i like....

      Then they target me for more ads that offend me.... more clicks...more support. Support Obama? Click! Support Romney? Click.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    6. Re:My two cents... by gorzek · · Score: 2

      Silly analogy.

      When you go to a website (such as Slashdot), you are there for the information provided. You sought it out--Slashdot didn't push it on you. As part of the tacit agreement you make as a reader, you are agreeing to support the site through whatever options are available, be they ads, a premium membership, a donation, or something else. If you are not interested in meeting that obligation, then it is unethical of you to take what is offered without accepting the site's terms.

      Just because something is technically possible doesn't mean it is ethically correct. It is technically possible for me to obtain and use your credit card information for my own benefit. Is it legal? Is it ethical? Absolutely not.

      I will grant that this is not a black-and-white issue. No one is obligated to accept malware ads, nor be tracked all over the Internet (which isn't something that benefits the site running the ads, anyway.) However, I think unilaterally blocking all ads goes too far. If you don't like the ads, don't use the site. It's that simple. Block enough to protect your private information and your computer, but I think that is about all you could ethically justify.

    7. Re:My two cents... by TheCarp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > Silly analogy.

      Care to explain why? It was intended to be silly, because it illustrates the point. If you give something away for free, you relinquish any and all control over what a person does with it, and leave them free to do what they want, which may be benficial to you, or not. I see no reason why this should suddenly be different online.

      Furthermore, its only a slight exageration. There is, in fact, a woman near us who sits by the train station offering up roses and asking for donations. My wife took a rose and dropped a $5 in the donation box, to which the woman had the gall to reply "Don't you have a twenty?"

      > As part of the tacit agreement you make as a reader

      Tacit agreement? What are the terms of this tacit agreement? So if a site has no ads today, and I seek it out tomorow, does that mean they have changed the agreement?

      Thats the probolem with implied agreements, anybody can claim they exist and claim what their terms are. Sounds entirely unreasonable to me. Just because they based their business model on unwarranted assumptions about what my client, running on my machine would do with their data.

      Certainly, implied agreement makes sense in many case. If I go to a resteraunt and order food, I am agreeing to pay the price on the menu. If I make a doctors appointment, i am agreeing to pay his fees for said appointment.

      This is no such thing... a website may or may not link elsewhere, may or may not get paid for some of those links depending on technical details of how they load etc. I have no way of knowing, before I request it, where it is linking, what data it is going to ask me to send to whom, whether the people I am sending it to are tracking me etc.

      On top of that, there are already several EXPLICIT agreements, known as RFCs. They indicate how data is sent, the format of the data, etc. Its pretty clear from the explicit agreements that the browser is responsible for the rendering, and for deciding what elements to render and how to render them.

      I say those explicit agreements trump any implict ones, especially when those implicit ones ask for nearly unlimited trust.

      > It is technically possible for me to obtain and use your credit card information for my own benefit. Is
      > it legal? Is it ethical? Absolutely not.

      And you say my analogy is silly.... what does downloading and rendering of publically available information have to do with obtaining access to privileged information that you are not authorised to have?

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  7. Block all advertising by ThePub2000 · · Score: 2

    There's enough evidence that moving, flashing, and otherwise annoying advertisements do little for your concentration. They can even effect your brain long after viewing a Web page. Block all advertising for your own good unless said advertising is already party of video content or guarantees to only serve static images.

  8. the issue is not the ads... by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... it's that so many times ad-serving networks end up being compromised and send ads that end up installing malware on your computer: if sites ran their own SIMPLE ads (plain images, served by their own website, no flash/iframe/... crap) there would be a lot less problems.

    Unfortunately that kind of ad-serving costs more money to do (easier to farm this out to an ad network) and since there are no penalties for doing so (if your ad provider is compromised and thousands of your users get hit by drive-by malware you say "sorry, not responsible, it's the ad provider's fault") that's why we're in the situation we're in where most tech savy people adblock as much as possible to reduce risks, which unfortunately hurts the content providers...

    I honestly wish there was some sort of scheme where you could have some sort of microtransaction way to give $$$ to websites you use. Say you like /. a lot, you could decide that every time you visit, you'd pay $0.01 with a maximum of $0.25/day, say you don't like as much another site but you don't want to completely freeload, you could decide you still give them $0.01 but only with a maximum of $0.01/day. It might seem low, but with a lot of users it could add up quite a bit for sites, and I think more than the current ad-based approach.

    Yes, this could probably add up to $50-100/month, but I'd be totally willing to pay that because I'd be supporting the sites I chose to, and sites wouldn't have to deal with subscriptions, they'd just get paid by the microtransaction provider once a month (minus of course a flat fee of some sort). The microtransaction providers could compete on fees etc. as long as there was interoperability so users wouldn't have to worry...

    --
    -- the cake is a lie
    1. Re:the issue is not the ads... by KonoWatakushi · · Score: 5, Informative

      You may be interested in Flattr.

  9. I Don't Block Anything by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But I do disable animated GIFs, flash and Javascript in my browser. If you can't convey your ad to me in a single static image, I'm not clicking on it. I click through a fair number of Google ads. Often they're exactly what I'm looking for, anyway. The more obnoxious an ad is, the less likely I am to click on it. The more obnoxious a page is, the less likely I am to hang around for very long.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:I Don't Block Anything by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      On my website I run Google text ads. They (Google) keep suggesting that I upgrade to what they call "rich media ads", which I'm pretty sure are exactly what you're describing. But since I don't like to see them myself, I don't want my website visitors to be subjected to them.

      Sort of an odd spin on the Golden Rule, I guess.

      And to reply to an earlier question... websites running ads don't get paid for your eyeballs - they only get paid if you click on an ad.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  10. Animation and annoyance by markdavis · · Score: 2

    I would not block any ads at all if they were static images. But they almost never are. And I CAN NOT STAND trying to look at the screen or read something while there is ANY type of movement or animation at the same time. It is just too distracting. So, greed has done them in.

    I won't even mention crap like hyper mouse-overs, SOUND, and other extremely annoying "features" because just the animation is enough.

  11. Ads are for the lazy and ignorant by synthesizerpatel · · Score: 2

    Either they're so lazy they don't care or they don't know how to get rid of them.

    If you feel bad about circumventing their terrible business model, just wait until they're broadcasting commercials directly into your dreams.

    And they laughed at me for wearing the tinfoil hat! Who's laughing now!

  12. I do advertisers a favour by blocking adverts by Andy_R · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I react very negatively to adverts. The more a company puts it's message in front of me, the less likely I am to buy from them. I instinctively avoid products with heavy TV marketing campaigns, because they can't represent good value for money, given that the cost of the campaign comes out of the price I'm paying.

    So I adblock everything... and by doing so, I save advertisers from getting filed under 'I hate those irritating people and won't buy anything from them'. I'm more likely to buy from a company if I don't see their ads than If I do.

    --
    A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
  13. anyone who says blocking ads is stealing... by manicpop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...doesn't understand how the Internet works. On a simpler level, there is no reason that just because I load file A (content I want), I also have to load file B (advertising). My downloading article.html does not make me obligated to download advertisement.png just because there's an image link to it. I will not feel guilted into using my bandwidth to download a single byte I'm not interested in downloading. If I'm stealing, am I also stealing when I use a text mode browser like lynx? Are blind people that use text browsers and a screen reader stealing? If I set Firefox to not download images or turn off JavaScript, am I stealing? If you feel passionately enough about a site that you want to support their ad business model, go ahead and whitelist that site. I feel no need to support any site by downloading things I want. If a site goes out of business because no one looked at its ads, well I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm sure I can find the content I want elsewhere.

    1. Re:anyone who says blocking ads is stealing... by trawg · · Score: 2

      I will not feel guilted into using my bandwidth to download a single byte I'm not interested in downloading. If I'm stealing, am I also stealing when I use a text mode browser like lynx? Are blind people that use text browsers and a screen reader stealing?

      I responded to another post elsewhere with this same comment - I think it's important to remember that you are not the only party paying for bandwidth when you are browsing someone's website. They are also paying for that bandwidth (and the server capacity to service the request, and of course all the other stuff that got the content there in the first place).

      Their model (disclaimer: we run a website that makes revenue by advertising) is not so much about you stealing their stuff when you block ads. It's like bending the unwritten Terms and Conditions that say "hey, we'll make this info available, and pay to publish it, and then pay half the costs of delivering it to you, if you'll pay the other half of the delivery costs with your bandwidth, and then help us cover the rest of the costs by letting us rent your eyeballs to our ad partners".

      There are still tangible benefits that they (and we) get by having your consume the information - it's a single digit increment to the user base that can be used to demonstrate reach. However, the lack of a delivery of an ad impression does impact the bottom line in some cases.

      I would strongly encourage you to find the content you want elsewhere rather than come to our site and block ads. We make a lot of stuff available (game demos, trailers, patches, etc) that you can find somewhere else. We try to make it easy and painless and above all fast to download files, and it costs us a lot to provide that service. If you're not going to lend us your eyeballs as part of the transaction, then I'd rather you visited one of our competitors (who I feel will generally have more obnoxious ads and slower downloads!) and take advantage of their services.

  14. TOASTY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When Flash, and flash based advertisements, stop turning my MBP into a toaster. i'll turn off AdBlock.

    The End.

  15. Block'm by VonSkippy · · Score: 2

    Until the site owners stop pimping out their sites to any and all ad engines, I'll use Adblock, NoScript, Flashblock, and anything else I deem necessary to prevent my systems from being targeted by Malware.

    If site owners would run their own tested and approved ad's, I'd have zero problem with that, but since they don't have a clue what crap is being passed out by their site, I have no moral problem blocking them all.

  16. Don't block by Dan541 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've never blocks ads. However I do block scripts and trackers, which as a consequence blocks a lot of ads anyway.

    I don't see why I should open a security vulnerability (client side scripting) just to read a webpage. However I don't have a problem with ads that aren't malicious but those seem to be getting fewer and fewer.

    --
    An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  17. Why bother? by countach · · Score: 2

    Why bother blocking ads, or making their targeting any worse than necessary? Is your self-will so weak? I very rarely am influenced by or click on ads. But if I have to see ads, I'd rather they be well targeted to my interests. And the ads are not particularly bothersome. What is the big deal really?

    1. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The ads are most certainly bothersome. They animate and distract from the page content. Or they auto play a video with sound. Or like one Yahoo Toyota ad where a car animated back and forth across the page. Or another Yahoo BMW ad that distorted the entire page for a second. Dialup internet is totally unusable because of the ads and scripts but if they are blocked, the text of the page still loads.

      Who says the advertiser has a right to demand my attention? Who says the advertiser gets to target me? Just block the ads and be done with the bothersome advertiser.

  18. not a question by bcrowell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    (a) This is posted to Ask Slashdot, but it's not really a question, it's a plug for the author's answer.

    (b) The slashdot summary is incoherent.

    (c) TFA consists of an incoherent intro followed by a description of what the author does. To save you the trouble of wading through the incomprehensible text, here's what he does: "#1 -- Disable third-party cookies [...] #2 -- Use Ghostery to block everything indiscriminately, but whitelist the sites I support."

    A typical piece of bizarre reasoning, incoherently expressed, from TFA:

    I want to reinforce myself with content that makes me a better person. If an advertiser uses a technology of behaviour on this type of content, I agree.

    This whole thing about the morally correct response to internet advertising has been rehashed over and over on slashdot. Over and over, people have made the same point: internet ads wouldn't be objectionable if they were like ads in a newspaper or magazine, but because they aren't like that, any user with enough know-how is going to block them. I'm sorry, but I just can't read an article while an animated monkey is jumping up and down next to it on the screen.

    Text-oriented sites like slashdot are relatively cheap to run, on a per-user basis, so as long as some percentage of their users don't use ad blockers, these sites are viable.

    I asked someone I know, who works in online advertising, whether ad blocking is an issue for her company. I told her I never saw ads on the internet and was surprised that anyone was ... well, dumb enough ... to fail to install ad blocking software. Her response: "Do you use Hulu?"

  19. The birds and the bees by russotto · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Imagine you are a bee, or a hummingbird. There are all these delicious flower full of yummy nectar... but around them is this icky, nasty, yellow pollen. The flower needs the pollen to be carried around to propagate the species... but you still don't want to get plant jism all over yourself. So you develop strategies to get the nectar without getting pollen on you. The plant, in turn develops strategies to get more pollen on you while not wasting as much precious nectar. No morality about it, it's just nature.

    (For the slow: the user is the bird or bee, the flower is the content provider, the nectar is the content, and the pollen is the advertisement.)

    1. Re:The birds and the bees by Alter_3d · · Score: 5, Funny

      (For the slow: the user is the bird or bee, the flower is the content provider, the nectar is the content, and the pollen is the advertisement.)

      I dont get it. Which one is the car?

  20. meh by LodCrappo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I care about my time far too much to spend much effort on such trivial matters.

    If spending time thinking about/taking steps to categorize and block sites brings you some pleasure in itself, fine.
    Otherwise the fact that you seem to have nothing more important to worry about may be a problem needing more urgent attention.

    --
    -Lod
  21. The Best Advertising... by garett_spencley · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... is advertising that doesn't come across as advertising.

    People who say they loathe advertising in any form actually just loathe the bad advertising; the advertising that detracts from what you're trying to do and immediately screams "this is an advertisement, I'm here to interrupt you in some way in the hope that somehow it will get you to buy something even though I've pissed you off."

    A few years ago I received an unepxected phone call on my wife's cellphone from a company offering a CDN service. At first I was really pissed off that this company had reached me in such an inappropriate manner ... but the guy on the other end didn't try to sell me anything and the conversation was unlike any telemarketing call that I had ever received. It was personal and appealed to my geeky curiosity (CDNs were very new at the time, the only companies that were using them were heavy traffic movers like Yahoo, so I wanted to know how it worked), it was offering me a solution to a problem I had at the time and the conversation was very informal. Within a minute or two I was actually asking him questions, and that's how it works. And to top it off when I told the guy I wasn't going to buy from him he chuckled and said "I'm not trying to sign you up today, don't worry." It kept me on the phone. I didn't buy but I was impressed enough that if I had chosen to purchase a CDN service within the next little while I probably would have given them a second look.

    I still don't like people phoning me, and I think there are far better ways to reach out to people, but everything that transpired within that phone call was an example of marketing done in the right direction.

    I'm self-employed, running a high-traffic web-site that generates money via ad revenue for 11 years now, and the people who visit my web-site have no idea that the entire site is one giant advertisement; in fact, people have complimented and praised me for not having any ads on the site. And yet when fellow webmasters in the same industry as myself share their sales and conversion stats I always get a big smile on my face. Their sites are crawling with blatant advertisements and they need 2 to 5 times the traffic to generate the same revenue. I've never understood how pissing off your customers can be regarded as any form of business model.

    I think the best well-known type of advertisement that's going in the right direction is product placement. It can be done poorly, yes and I know I am about to get a bunch of replies from people telling me that they always notice it and it ruins the program etc. But it *CAN* be done in a subtle way that blends with the program and does not detract, to the point where the viewer does not notice or care.

    But I think the real way to do "advertising" is provide a value to the viewer as the advertisement itself. Imagine an hour long infomercial on television that was entertaining and/or informative enough to get you to watch it for it's own sake, with no intention of buying anything. Remember that "punch the monkey" ad that was on every single web-site a decade ago ? Imagine if that had actually been a real game that you could play. No pushy-ness what-ever. Not shoved in your face and not done as a banner / flash ad. Instead, something people genuinely wanted to play, with an entertaining sales pitch as part of it. Good advertising can be done, and occasionally is. We just don't notice because we're too distracted and pissed off at the "BOO!!! HAHAH! THIS IS ADVERTISEMENT! YOU WILL BUY NOW LOLZ!"

    I've practiced "magic"/illusion-performance as a hobby for a few years and in reading/studying I've learned that corporations will often hire magicians at trade-shows to pitch new products to retailers. Some of the better magicians have crafted entire 20-minute magic routines around the product they're hired to pitch. It's entertainment and people want to watch it for that purpose alone, but it's also an advertisement.

    1. Re:The Best Advertising... by Mandrel · · Score: 2

      I think the best well-known type of advertisement that's going in the right direction is product placement. It can be done poorly, yes and I know I am about to get a bunch of replies from people telling me that they always notice it and it ruins the program etc. But it *CAN* be done in a subtle way that blends with the program and does not detract, to the point where the viewer does not notice or care.

      What sort of disclosure do you display on this sponsored content? Are users clearly informed they're ads? This suggests not:

      ...the people who visit my web-site have no idea that the entire site is one giant advertisement; in fact, people have complimented and praised me for not having any ads on the site.

      As long as I'm told that certain content has an agenda, I agree that a coherent article or whitepaper is a much better ad than a banner.

      The problem is that if I know it's an ad, I may as well read it on the company's own website, which I can be made aware of through a search engine ad or organic result (which requires me to be actively looking, and only search engines get paid), or through an ad on a site like your own (which I'm likely to block because they intrude and don't give me the full picture, only information from those who choose to advertise). Much better would be if I could learn about things through unbiased content written by you and your users, and you get paid through affiliate-like mechanisms.

    2. Re:The Best Advertising... by garett_spencley · · Score: 2

      What sort of disclosure do you display on this sponsored content? Are users clearly informed they're ads? This suggests not:

      I was intentionally vague, because I'm not here to pitch my web-site or talk about what I do etc. But you did hit on something:

      Much better would be if I could learn about things through unbiased content written by you and your users, and you get paid through affiliate-like mechanisms.

      That's a pretty accurate description of what I do. I don't work for anyone or promote one given company. The ads that people are there to see is the content of the site, and it is a subset of what it's trying to sell. But you can't get it on the "manufacturer's" web-site without paying for it. My site provides free samples. Think of people who might go to Costco on Friday just for the samples, and if they really like something in particular they might buy it. The only difference is, people usually don't perceive the content on my site to be an advertisement, and I'm in the very fortunate position where 99.99% of my competitors shove blatant ads and pop-ups down their surfer's throats. People tell me they come to my site because there are no ads.

  22. Web vs. apps by dumky2 · · Score: 2

    Browsers allow you to block ads, because they are so extensible (plugins). But it is interesting to think about Apps.
    It is easy to block ads from a website, but not so from the corresponding app. Apps are a complete bundle of features (some which you may like and some less), but you don't get to pick and choose and tweak as with browser.
    Have you tried blocking ads on the Hulu website? You'll get to wait for about twice as long as if you watched the ad.

    --
    These comments are mine; I do not speak for my employer.
  23. And then there's my theory by kilodelta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That I pay for the bandwidth, so how dare they usurp and use it to serve ads. So I aggressively adblock.

    I've almost got all of hulu's ad servers blotted out. And then for standard web browsing I use AdBlock Plus.

  24. Adblock Plus by Deathlizard · · Score: 2

    I block ads, but I leave the option to allow non-obtrusive advertising on.

    I'll reward sites that promote responsible advertising, the rest of the ads can get bent.

  25. When they deserve your trust. by anlprb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Honestly. Look at the agreement between you and them. You are providing eyeballs for a product. When they believe they can track you beyond your eyeballs, there is an issue. You don't HAVE to look at billboards as you drive by them. Why do they think they can throw a GPS tracking device on your car as you drive by? All business transactions are based on equal standing. Especially contract law. You need to be on equal footing for contracts to be honored. That is why some jurisdictions don't see Shrink Wrap EULAs as valid and enforceable. You have no equal footing with something that you already purchased and cannot return, since the package was opened.

    When the equation is equal again, you can walk back and deal as an equal, until it is an equal equation, the only way to win is to not play.

    Kobayashi Maru

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what is for dinner.

    Liberty is a well-armed lamb.

    AdBlock Plus just give us lambs better arms.

    --

    One Token Ring to Rule them All, One Search Engine to Find Them, One WAN to bring them in, and TCP/IP Bind them...
  26. will by shentino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's all about respect for the free will of the consumer.

    If I want to look at ads, let me. If I want them out of my sight, so be it. It's my eyeballs you're trying to market, so you do so on my terms or not at all.

    Seriously, nothing pisses me off more than popups or "forced ad views". They get between me and the content I seek to read.

    Also, because I never click on ads anyway, it's a waste of CPU and screenspace to show them.

    By blocking ads I'm actually saving the site on their bandwidth bills.

    Ads should be clearly labeled as ads, stay the hell out of my way when I'm using a site, and if I'm to click on them they also need to be relevant to my interests.

    If you want to profile me, and you're willing to respect my privacy, go for it. Pull any underhanded tricks and I'll ditch you so fast your head will spin.

  27. Re:Blocking ads is hypocritical by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But it is childish and hypocritical.

    Not at all. I pay my ISP to get internet access. If that internet access gave me equal bandwidth both in upload and download capacity, and adhered to network neutrality, there would be no need to pay for anything else other than internet access. The internet didn't come about because of advertising, or commercial interests. It doesn't need either to sustain itself. Protocols could easily be designed to share content, just like bittorrent does now. Bittorrent doesn't need advertising, and it can move a lot of data. More than anything a typical webpage costs in bandwidth. If the concept was extended so that websites I access frequently I could sign up to cache their content and redistribute it on a network model like bittorrent, which was what the web was designed to do, albeit less efficiently, being a "version 1.0" -- then there would be little need for servers, data centers, advertising, etc.

    This isn't a "something for nothing" argument, this is a "cooperation costs less than competition" argument. The internet was not designed as a client/server model: TCP/IP is a peer to peer protocol. It's the ultimate in electronic democracy... and corporations and commercial interests have been fighting it, beating on it, manipulating it, and fucking it up as much as possible to shoehorn their own outdated business models on it.

    The internet not only doesn't need advertisements: It doesn't need advertising companies, servers, data centers, clouds, businesses, corporations, governments... it doesn't need any of that. We could, in fact, create a wireless global network based on internet protocols and do away with ISPs entirely, if we were so motivated.

    So don't give me that "something for nothing" argument, because that's what they're doing. They're allowed to freeload on my internet connection to support their broken business model. If enough people block advertising, move away from ISPs that don't enforce network neutrality, and demand the government do something about it... we might actually get the network back that we originally designed, the network that is full of possibilities, open protocols, and universal access to all of humanities collective knowledge and experience.

    Or... you can be a consumer and eat whatever they feed you.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
  28. An intermediate position by Animats · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The big problem with ads is that sites keep increasing the number of ads per page or per unit time until the number of users drops off substantially. CBS actually admitted that they cranked up the number of commercials on their on-line shows until the usage started to drop.

    There are limits to this, as Myspace found out the hard way. At some point, users revolt and go elsewhere. Facebook seems to be following Myspace in that regard, as "sponsored stories" and larger ads chew up more of the screen. Google started with small blocks of ads on the right of search results, but now there are ads at the right, top, and bottom of search results.

    As a counter to that, I did Ad LImiter, which is a reaction to Google and Bing putting too many ads and paid results on search results. You get to select how many ads you want to see per page. The default is 1. You can set it to zero, but one Google ad is often useful. Think of it as moderation, applied to advertisers.

    I'd like to see more tools like that. It would induce advertisers to produce better, more relevant ads, if they were competing against other ads for some criterion beneficial to the user. Google selects the ads to show based on an algorithm designed to optimize Google's revenue. This is not necessarily optimal for either user or advertiser.

  29. Default is block 'em all by downhole · · Score: 2

    My default is to block or avoid all ads everywhere. I don't even have cable, and all of the TV I watch is either Netflix instant view or Torrent streams, so I never see any TV ads. I block all internet ads on all of my computers, plus my phone and tablet. About the only ads I see are on the radio while driving, mostly because I am too lazy and don't drive enough to bother with setting up audio CDs or getting satellite radio.

    On the internet, at least on computers, I sometimes whilelist sites I like and want to support, if their ads aren't too obnoxious. At least if I bother to remember about it. For internet ads, there's so much bad stuff out there - malware in ads, tracking systems, javascript that slows your browser to a crawl, annoying animations, and just plain ugly stuff, that it's much easier to block it all and not worry than to try and sort out what's what.

    For morality, I try to look at the situation in reverse to get a little perspective. How many internet advertising people are really worried about whether they infect our computers with malware, track us, slow our browsers to a crawl, etc? How much effort are they going to to make sure that those things don't happen? Yeah, I thought so. I think I'll continue to not care about any greater implications of being part of the 5% of internet users tech-savvy enough to block ads.

    --
    I don't reply to ACs
  30. Re:Blocking ads is hypocritical by Mitsoid · · Score: 2

    I don't mind sites showing advertisements

    I mind when sites use ad servers that slow down my computer and/or mobile device because it tries to make a dozen calls to different servers to try and load in some complex advertisement..

    Then I go to try and zoom in on the website's content and the advertisement shows up 1/2 cut off.. and the little "Close" button gets stuck off-screen.. So I lose not only the ability to read a content on a website, but am forced to see half of an advertisement without the ability to get past it....

    Unless I block/avoid the advertisement.

    I Love google ads, most of the other ads use obnoxious strategies to annoy me into reading their message

  31. I block all ads. by John+Hasler · · Score: 2

    If I didn't the advertisers would be paying money to have ads delivered to me for products that I will never buy.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  32. Where do you think content comes from? by Dputiger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It mystifies me that so many intelligent people are so wrong about where content comes from. I'm an online journalist. I've been an online journalist for 11 years. Advertising revenue is what pays the bills.

    Blocking ads isn't immoral. It doesn't make you a bad person. But if everyone did it, a whole heck of a lot of websites wouldn't exist. This point stands regardless of what anyone thinks of my content or the content at websites I've written for. If you like a website because it publishes solid, well-researched articles, those articles take time and money to create. Good journalism takes time and money to create.

    If you block ads and *don't* subscribe or cut a check every so often, than yes, that's a problem. There are stories that don't get written because investigating them is too costly. It sucks to be in a situation where you've got your hands on something interesting, but you literally can't afford to follow it up. Opting out of advertising has an impact on sites you care about.

    And for the record? I hate ads, too.

  33. Re:Irrelevent by JohnSearle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If this is the case, then adblock just needs the option to download the content for the ad, but not display it. The websites get the cash, and the advertisers aren't aware that their content never actually reached the public.

  34. Block Javascript, not Ads by BradleyUffner · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I block Javascript across the board, but all static images are allowed through. If your site displays the ads as static images that do not require any javascript then I'm fine with your ads and don't mind if I see them. I'm actually pretty shocked at how few ads I actually see given that plain old images are allowed.

  35. I'll consider text ads by swell · · Score: 2

    I don't think you can even block them. I consider them respectful of the reader. I suspect that many feel the same and text ads may be the smart way to go. And, yes, many sites need ads to be able to offer useful content- support them when you can.

    But put animated images or sounds on my screen and they'll be out in a Flash. In fact the entire site might be gone. I don't care if it's advertising for others or a promo for the site itself- if it can't sit still I shut it down. And if there is no provision offered to stop the animation I'll probably leave the site forever.

    Sadly this often includes government and major business sites. Leave that noise (visual or aural) to the Disney kids; the gambling, porn, sports and entertainment sites. There's no place in business for noise.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  36. BBC Model by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The alternative would be something like the BBC, where I'd have to pay $230 a year to watch NBC. $230 a year to watch ABC. $230 a year to watch CBS. And on and on and on.

    No the BBC model is far better than that: you pay £145.50 each year to watch the BBC. This consists of multiple channels of high quality HD content plus an online service that lets you download content to watch offline later. You then get ITV, Channel 4 etc. thrown in for free with ads.

    If they would let me do that from Canada I'd take them up in a flash. As it is my only option for anything close is to pay $880 (~£550) per year for cable to get the same amount of quality content split over 100 channels and interspersed with ads and low quality rubbish. The only channel that comes close in terms of quality is the CBC but it only provides one english-speaking channel and is severely hampered by lack of funding.

    The BBC is by no means perfect and the funding model certainly has its flaws but the end result is something with a higher quality and lower cost than anything I have yet seen in any of the countries I've lived in.

    1. Re:BBC Model by SeanDS · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've used the BBC news website as my main and often only source of news for years. However, I am still consistently amazed every few months when I discover yet another service that the BBC has been modestly offering in the background.

      A couple of years ago the Tory government in the UK were trying to reduce the BBC's budget dramatically, arguing that it's lost focus on its core objective of news. In particular, they wanted to scale back the websites to just basic news, arguing that the real content should be provided by newspapers' websites. The reality is that the public love and defend the BBC's diverse range of services, and in the end I think the bill was scrapped. Now, with the recent Olympics, the BBC successfully (without a hitch, from what I saw) broadcast web-based feeds of 30 sporting events simultaneously, to tens of millions of viewers at once. Not only that, but you could rewind and seek within the live stream videos to rewatch notable events. They've recently extended the same functionalty to their iPlayer (catch-up TV) service, allowing me to rewind a programme that's currently broadcasting if I've missed the beginning.

      The licence fee is an absolute bargain. I'd happily pay twice that amount. The only comparable website (and there are no real comparisons) would perhaps be the Guardian newspaper's website, which at least competes for news content. It doesn't make a stab at history sections, archives of old film footage (such as the Titanic launch), learning/revision services for school kids, a news service entirely aimed at kids (and toddlers), science...

  37. Technically bad, and evil censorship by billstewart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Saying that it's ok to use the government to limit speech is evil, whether it's commercial speech or not. Using technology to block annoying people from speaking to you is just fine, even if that technology is a third-party service. Using technology to block technically bad advertising systems is not just fine, it's really nice!

    I started running ad-blockers because too many ads were [BLINK]annoying animated gifs[/BLINK], which have since mutated into resource-burning browser-crashing Flash and Javascript ads, pop-ups, pop-unders, float-around-thingies, and other annoyances YELLING FOR MY ATTENTION. I'm not very bothered by Google text ads or even low volumes of non-singing non-dancing static image ads, but there's no obvious convenient way to block the annoying ones without blocking the well-behaved ones. (Sorry, Google, but I'm not going to bother using non-obvious non-convenient tools just to enable ads, even for sites I like.)

    I also run ad-blockers and Ghostery because there's too much tracking going on. I don't want lots of random measurement systems watching everything I could do and deciding how they can monetize my user experience by selling tracking data to people who want to show me ads. If your web page wants to run trackers in your domain, fine, but leave the third-party stuff out of it.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  38. on ad just being a way to hide costs by Herve5 · · Score: 2

    This is very significant, too bad I don't have mod points.
    Still, it somehow opens the way to thinking these ads I block would have been for products I don't buy...
    So it may allow me dreaming that's Coca-cola drinkers paying for this site while I don't drink coca...

    --
    Herve S.
  39. Here is a tip... by Burz · · Score: 2

    If its privacy, not security, you are concerned about then enter "Private Browsing" or "Incognito" mode to access that site with JS and all turned on. Then nothing in your cookies, cache or history can be connected with your other browsing (for which you may want to use the blocking extensions). At that point, they will have little more than an IP address as a commonality.

    To make this approach even more effective, in both modes use an add-in that manages your browser 'fingerprint' such as FireGloves.

  40. adblocking by cas2000 · · Score: 2

    i adblock everything because:

    a) ads annoy the hell out of me

    b) it's a side effect of blocking javascript etc by default - i don't want web sites (especially advertising networks) running arbitrary code on my computer - spying on me and potentially installing trojans or other malware. I just want to view data, not run malware.

    c) when i want to buy something, i go looking for it and dont want to be pestered about buying stuff otherwise. i loathe, detest, and resent being badgered by advertising. i just don't fucking want to know about it, hear about it, see it.

    d) i never buy anything because of an ad.

    e) in fact because of a and c above, the only affect seeing an ad is likely to have on me is to cause me to boycott the product and/or the company selling it if the ad is sufficiently annoying (and i have a fairly low threshold for being annoyed by the cretinously inane vulgarities that advertising scumbags think are clever or funny. i particularly despise ads that attempt to use soft porn to entice me to buy their worthless shit - i have nothing against porn in general, i just hate the cheap and nasty manipulation of using it in ads or marketing).

    really, a pair of tits or whatever is not going to make me think your product is worth buying. it's going to make me think you're a manipulative scumbag.

    I hate "branding" ads almost as much as porn ads - the ones that don't even mention a product but just do their best to engender feelings of loathing and contempt for the company/industry or whatever it is they're spamming. at least, that's how they work on me.

    f) since advertising is predominantly pay-per-click and not pay-per-view my viewing ads is never going to generate any kind of revenue for the sites i visit.

    g) OTOH for sites i actively participate in, my presence indirectly generates revenue because of all the other users who choose to view ads (for whatever reason - incomprehensible to me) that read the content i contribute. but that's not something i really care about. it's merely a co-incidence or a side-effect, not a reason.

    h) i would rather not visit a site at all if there were some technical mechanism or annoyance (like interstitial ads) that attempted to force them on me. it's not like web sites are rare - there's millions of sites on the net and not one of them is worth being badgered by advertising for.

    i) i don't watch TV much either and when I do, I mostly watch the non-commercial channels (ABC and SBS here in .au) because most of the shows on commercial channels are just hollywood style shit and other american cultural imperialism. The few shows I do like to watch on commercial TV I record with mythtv and skip the ads because, as i mentioned, I hate ads, they annoy the hell out of me.

    mythtv also allows me to ignore TV for weeks or months at a time and then binge on watching TV for a few days (perhaps an entire season of a show). then i ignore it again for weeks.

    j) my life is a lot more pleasant without the constant barrage of advertising noise.

  41. Vendors should be paying *me* to block their ads by danpbrowning · · Score: 2

    Many of the ads that I see make me *hate* the vendor. Before seeing the ad, I would have been fine buying from them. After, I avoid them like the plague, tell my social circle about why their ad made me dislike them, start a boycott, or maybe just leave flaming bags of doggy doo on their front steps. So by blocking ads, I'm actually boosting the vendor's sales. They should be paying *me* to block their ads.

    In reality, the above is a bit silly. In most situations, the ads that drive me nuts are for products/services that I (and most in my social circle) would have never bought anyway, and the advertisers know that. The very things that make the ad so annoying to me are precisely what makes it effective on the actual target demographic.

    For example, I was watching TV with some extended family when one of those supremely annoying used car dealership commercials came on, with the "M-M-M-Monster Sale! Friday! FRIDAY! Fri-day! We're going craaazy!" and some family members said something to the effect of "Sounds like a great sale! We should seriously get down there!" I was shocked.

    --
    Daniel
  42. I didn't care much about it until by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 2

    I didn't care much about it until the ads started being animated, with sound, and in some cases you cant turn off either the video or the sound without muting your speakers. Then there came the ones that after you paused them would restart themselves in a few seconds, to give you time to scroll away from it. Because surely you turned it off in error?

    Never bought anything because of an ad, never felt better about someone that I know sucks because of an ad, I just buy what looks good, at a good price, when I need it. Do most of my shopping at Costco where a giant team of experts has winnowed down my choices to the best, they take everything back for any reason, and I have very few customer service issues. If Costco doesn't have it, I buy 5 star items that are heavily reviewed at Amazon. Not perfect, but its a pretty good indicator, and they'll also take anything back.

    I do wish many companies would take their advertising budget and plow it into customer service. I'm pretty sure outfits like directv, comcast, at&t and verizon who spend a gazillion dollars advertising and giving new customer discounts wouldn't need to bring in new customers as much if their customer service didn't suck dead donkey balls. Really dead, really big donkey balls.