Booted From Airplane For Wearing Anti-TSA T-shirt

Cigarra writes "PhD student Arijit learned the hard way that in Brave New America you can't mock TSA's Security Theater and go on about your business. According to a recollection in RT.com: 'After being vigorously screened and questioned multiple times, Arijit says he was finally given permission, once more, to board his plane. The pilot of the aircraft, however, had had enough of the whole ordeal and asked the Delta supervisor to relay the message that, due to the discomfort the shirt had caused, neither Arijit nor his wife would be allowed to board the aircraft.' Just how much humiliation is the general American public willing to tolerate in the name of 'security'?"

Comments

duh - his name

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean come on "Arijit" clearly a terrorist threat.

Re:duh - his name

[Anonymous Coward]

He may be an ijit, but he's Arijit!

Re:duh - his name

[Hotawa Hawk-eye]

So are Eric and Dylan, Timothy, Ted, Jeff, and John. Should we bar everyone with those first names from flying?

Re:duh - his name

[schlachter]

sounds like the pilot was being vindictive and trying to push his political views...no fair and bad service.

Re:duh - his name

[Stargoat]

Well, I suppose it's good that I intend to name my children Lemuel and Nephi.

It's even worse

[jodido]

Add in the racial bias in profiling and the racist prejudices of some passengers (this can get you booted too if a passenger decides s/he is "uncomfortable" on the plane with you on it) and you have quite an ugly situation.

Re:It's even worse

[Tridus]

RTFA perhaps? It's in there. I know it's easier to bitch and moan like a fucking moron then to actually RTFA, but lets give it a try:

“He gave a stupid answer,” Arijit recalls hearing the officer say to a supervisor. “And he looks foreign.”

“Certainly he wasn’t implying that dark-skinned people are not real Americans and that white people are the only true Americans,” Arijit writes in part of his snark-filled synopsis. “Fortunately, Mark’s request was denied. Apparently, someone at NFTA recognized this bigoted meathead for the bigoted meathead he was and that nationality is simply a concept that exists solely on paper and cannot be discerned from just looking at someone.”

Re:It's even worse

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it hard to take anyone seriously that uses the word "retarded" as a synonym of "dumb".

Since I doubt he meant to observe that slashdot can't speak...

I find it hard to take anyone seriously that uses the word "dumb" as a synonym of "stupid", while getting butthurt about "retarded". Clinically correct language: take it or leave it, but you can't have it both ways.

Re:It's even worse

[Sponge Bath]

I'm sure he was aware something like this could happen, but he had the balls to risk some heat to exercise his rights and bring attention to the stupidity of the TSA. Good for him, if more people had that kind of guts then the TSA could be tamed.

Re:It's even worse

[houstonbofh]

Poke an animal or a person, with a sharp stick, and see what kind of reaction you get - it won't be a smile and a "Let me do whatever it takes to help you...". Instead it will be similar to what this guy saw, by metaphorically poking the bureaucrats that are the TSA and airline security crowd with an offensive-to-them shirt.

Unless they work for Chick-Fil-A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg-jzlWcc0E

As a doctoral candidate, he should be intelligent enough to hypothesize this sort of reaction, yet when that is exactly what happens, he gets all huffy. No sympathy from me, for being a dumbass and now getting whiny about it. Man up, Arijit, stop being a whiny puss. Should the TSA and airline security be what it is now? IMO, hell no, it is doing no good, it is pointless, security theater. But that doesn't change that this person got pretty much what anyone with a lick of common sense would have guessed would be the sort of reaction one could expect. Newtons Law, and all that...

He was standing up for his rights and mocking a reviled government agency. And they let him past! It was Delta that bounced him and pitched a fit. Yep, Delta screwed him over because some people were uncomfortable. Never flying Delta...

Re:It's even worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Thing is you're not allowed to abuse your power to get back at a provocateur if the person hasn't done anything illegal.

Which this is; a gross abuse of power: stopping somebody from traveling, potentially stealing hours if not DAYS of their time stranding them at an airport -> borderline imprisonment, simply because you "didn't like them". You can yell as much as you want about how "they started it" you were still the one that started the metaphorical punching AND you were several sizes larger than they were on the metaphorical scale.

Re:It's even worse

[Tridus]

Except that's not what happened. TSA cleared him without incident. Delta (as in: the airline) raised a fuss. TSA then cleared him *again* with considerably more hassle, and Delta still wouldn't let him on the plane.

TSA is bad, but they aren't actually the culprits in this story.

Re:It's even worse

[geminidomino]

Except that's not what happened. TSA cleared him without incident.

Except that's not true. They cleared him eventually, but not "without incident."

Re:It's even worse

[therealkevinkretz]

"Poke an animal or a person, with a sharp stick, and see what kind of reaction you get - it won't be a smile and a "Let me do whatever it takes to help you...". Instead it will be similar to what this guy saw, by metaphorically poking the bureaucrats that are the TSA and airline security crowd with an offensive-to-them shirt."

That's not acceptable behavior from people who are LEO or, in this case, people who think they are LEO, and who have the power and discretion to detain or impede travel.

To suggest that they should behave otherwise when faced with something irritating or questioning might be a utopian ideal, but it's still the correct standard.

Re:It's even worse

[Tridus]

No, you're wrong. He cleared security without a problem the first time. Delta raised a fuss at the gate, and he had to deal with security again. That is when he had problems with them. Then Delta raised a fuss *again* after he'd cleared security twice.

Re:It's even worse

[jythie]

Ah, blaming the victim because they were 'asking for it'. Even when one takes a risk, it is still the fault of the party that acted poorly. In this case the TSA and Delta are the ones that behaved badly... the guy did something risky yes, but risky well within his legal rights.

This is the same class of argument as those people who claim rape victims are not actually victims because they wore a short skirt or went home with someone they didn't know.. yeah it is a risk, but it is still the rapist in the wrong.... and telling people they should live in fear and avoid things because bad people will get them does not help, it just shames the behavior and normalizes the bad behavior.

Re:It's even worse

[Anonymous Coward]

No, never fly Delta Airlines.

Im going to post Anonymously because frankly, I dont feel like having some asshole come after me for this story. I used to work for a website that sold airline tickets, and I was a phone monkey who would take calls for bookings or complaints or whatever. This was about 8 months after 9/11 and lots of garbage was going on because white people are annoying.

Basically an older man calls in, in tears. After spending a few minutes to calm the poor guy down it comes out that his son was on a Delta flight by himself (16, maybe 17 years old) and got bumped because some idiot felt "threatened" by his presence on the plane. See, he was from the middle east and clearly they were all out to kill us. So delta bumps this kid and left him in the airport. Last flight of the night, has no money, and they give him a food voucher for a resturant that was already closed. Too young to legally rent a Hotel, no means to get home till the next morning, hadn't eaten all day because he was expecting to get home in time for dinner. Frankly, not that smart to do so without cash, but that doesn't excuse Delta.

Anyway, after begging on the phone with Delta for like 2 hours I gave up and called South West, who put him on a flight they had going out that night, no cost to the kid. This wasn't the only instance I've had with Delta Airlines and racist, bullshit policy about "discomfort" and the above story reminds me strongly of it. DO NOT FLY DELTA AIRLINES UNLESS YOU'RE WHITE AND/OR RICH. If you are, I still dont recommend it.

Re:It's even worse

[i kan reed]

Not that I'm engaging in the most reasoned of debate here, and believe me I'm coming more from a devil's advocate position than anything else, but:

Why should it be unacceptable to judge someone for having a substantially, disabling limitation on their intelligence, but acceptable to judge someone for being slightly below average intelligence? If we agree to the fundamental presumption that intelligence is outside of ones own control, why can you judge anyone for being stupid at all?

Re:It's even worse

[Anonymous Coward]

You can. I've seen it done on redtube.

Re:It's even worse

[Dishevel]

Clinically correct language: take it or leave it, but you can't have it both ways.

Sure you can. If you are stupid.

Re:It's even worse

[camperdave]

This has nothing to do with Law Enforcement. He was removed from the flight by the pilot, at the pilot's discretion, because his shirt was upsetting the passengers. The pilot has that right. The safety of the passengers are the pilot's responsibility.

Re:It's even worse

[ProfBooty]

True, yet as a common carrier they have specific rules they must follow to maintain common carrier status. The issue here is their common carrier obligations versus the captains discretion for removing a threat.

Re:It's even worse

[LateArthurDent]

I find it hard to take anyone seriously that uses the word "retarded" as a synonym of "dumb".

Since I doubt he meant to observe that slashdot can't speak...

I find it hard to take anyone seriously that uses the word "dumb" as a synonym of "stupid", while getting butthurt about "retarded". Clinically correct language: take it or leave it, but you can't have it both ways.

The irony does not stop there. His nickname is also MickyTheIdiot. Idiot used to be a psychology term for a particular level of mental retardation.

Re:It's even worse

[CanHasDIY]

The 1st amendment is about GOVERNMENT suppression of speech. Corporations can do as they well please.

Considering that the two become more and more indistinguishable from one another as the days roll on, perhaps it's time we reconsider that particular limitation.

Re:It's even worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but they are still violating the Civil Rights Act of 1964, seeing as they are a public accommodation discriminating based on race.

See Heart of Atlanta Motel Inc. v. United States. 379 U.S. 241 (1964).

Re:It's even worse

[History's Coming To]

If you're going to use "standing up for his rights" as an argument then you should realise that the pilot has some rights of his own, including "not letting a passenger on board because he feels like it". Pilots have absolute authority over the safety of their aircraft. Whether he was morally right to do so in this situation is debatable, but if you're going to invoke "rights" then the pilot is the one exercising them, the passenger only has the "right" to choose to fly with a different airline.

Re:It's even worse

[ryzvonusef]

I recently submitted a story in this issue, Apparently, NYPD's secret dept has been racially profiling people simply for grumbling in Urdu, or visiting a lebanese cafe:

http://slashdot.org/submission/2220419/nypd-official-muslim-spying-by-secret-unit-generated-no-leads-terrorism-cases

Re:It's even worse

[ZeroSumHappiness]

This is actually a Civil Rights Act violation, which does apply to Delta, especially because, I believe, they are a common carrier.

Re:It's even worse

[blackraven14250]

Did you forget that you're on Slashdot, where the summaries are almost always incorrect in a substantial way?

Re:It's even worse

[hazah]

There's a thing called a "business transaction". That pilot is obligated to honour it. The passengers paid for their seats. Now unless the poor bastard and his wife were really that uncomfortable to be around... you know, something a little more serious then a stupid t-shirt... then sure, they should not be put up with. Barring that from happening (and it didn't) that pilot failed to meet his obligations (i. e. he failed to do his job properly). So no, your assertion that he can "not letting a passenger on board because he feels like it" is not valid. You wouldn't expect a greasy, pimple faced, teenager to take your money and not give you your big mac because he is "uncomfortable" with you. Being a pilot doesn't magically put you in some special league.

Re:It's even worse

[Rob the Bold]

Don't fly Delta, indeed. A gate agent tried to take away my daughter's car seat. And her airplane seat, for that matter, converting her to lap child with no reduction in ticket price. I guess you can't expect a gate agent to know what seats are FAA approved and which ones are not, but perhaps you could expect them to STFU if they've got no clue and lack the aptitude to read the label that says "FAA approved". We told her to mind her own business and she told us that we might as well check the thing since the stewardess certainly wouldn't allow it on, and it would save us hassle by checking it right there instead of on the JetWay (tm). At least the stewardess at the door knew that the FAA allows -- and in fact recommends -- approved child seats for kids that size.

I complained to Delta that their agent tried to convince us to needlessly endanger our daughter and deprive us of a paid for seat, a feat she would have accomplished if we'd just done what she told us. They made a non-apology-apology, and asked my to send them the details of where is happened and our ticket info, etc., but since I didn't feel like being an unpaid customer relations consultant, all I wanted was an insincere but unqualified apology and a worthless promise to make their gate agents more informed about carrying young children.

Also, I was wearing the same t-shirt that day, but I guess I was lucky it was too fucking cold inside and out and I had to layer with a sweater. No telling what some hillbilly on the plane would have thought of it. At least as a white male with no foreign accent or name, I'm not a terrorist.

Re:It's even worse

[Hognoxious]

Pilots have absolute authority over the safety of their aircraft.

What's safety got to do with it? The guy wasn't a danger.

And I'm pretty certain a pilot can't assault or kill someone and claim it was for safety reasons (he was giving me the evil eye!) and get away with it. So absolute authority my arse, he's answerable if he abuses it and hope this cuntrag gets shitcanned.

Re:It's even worse

[jeremyp]

You have a six figure id and you still haven't realised that the summaries here are often misleading or even downright wrong.

From the victim's own blog:

It is worth noting that once TSA was involved and had to question me about the meaning of my shirt, they did treat me with the utmost respect and without any malice. Indeed, the lead TSA agent recognized the absurdity of the situation and even apologized I had to go through all this, saying that he found the entire situation to be ridiculous and that he’d let me fly.

Re:It's even worse

[RabidReindeer]

This is not the way to do it. What sense does it make to harass the line workers? Did they come up with the policies? Will this cause the real decision makers to even notice? Unlikely. All this accomplishes is slowing down the already too slow security and pissing people off.

Now, if you wanted to protest outside the TSA offices in DC or pin a Congress critter to the wall, you're starting to make some sense. If you're going to do something like clog up the works, sympathy for you and your cause is going to be limited, at best.

If wealth can trickle down, misery can trickle up.

Agreed. annoying the grunts is not the best way to do things. But if the job was so unpleasant that no one do it, that would necessarily invite attention. They're not totally innocent, after all. No one forced them to do it.

In an ideal world, we'd descend on the people at the top. However, in this world, demonstrations are often kettled into Free Speech Zones far enough away so that the people who should be listening don't even know they're there, we elect our officials on silly things like their opponent is "too Liberal" instead of on being responsive to the common people, and most people can't spare the time or money to travel to the halls of power, anyway.

The TSA workers are close at hand at the time the annoyance is felt, which makes them natural targets.

Re:It's even worse

[Karl Cocknozzle]

My taxes have shot up

Bullshit: Please cite how your taxes have "shot-up" since Obama took office. Is it because you have a job now, and thus are paying more in taxes than you were while unemployed during the Bush administration that makes you believe your taxes have "shot up?"

Re:It's even worse

[cpu6502]

>>>$65k salary -is- rich. Try raising a family on $22k a year, no benefits or welfare support because 'you make too much money'.

$65000 is in the top one-third of all Americans. Being in the top 1/3 does not make you "rich" dumbass. That's still middle class you envious, jealous, desiring-to-take-other-people's money prick.

Re:It's even worse

[Synn]

> There's a thing called a "business transaction". That pilot is obligated to honour it.

Actually he isn't. The pilot of a plane(like the captain of a boat) has pretty much absolute authority of his craft. If he wants you thrown off for looking at him sideways, well, it sucks to be you.

Re:It's even worse

[djchristensen]

So should we get rid of any clothes we have that might offend someone? Bumper stickers? Sikhs will need to stop wearing their headdresses so they don't stand out and possibly make someone uncomfortable on a train or bus or plain. And just forget about burqas or other traditional dress from non-Western cultures (do you think people would be more concerned about a guy wearing lederhosen or a woman wearing a burqa, given no difference in behavior between the two?).

I'm not typically a fan of slippery-slope thinking, but if you pay attention, you'll realize we've already slid well down that slope. Posts like yours demonstrate that quite clearly. It's now okay to be forced to self-censor, and those that don't (and who clearly are not breaking any laws) deserve some or all of the blame. Does it bother you at all that you have to be careful about which shirt you might be wearing when you go on a flight? It bothers me.

And on a side note, it's actually nice to get a view of the TSA where they aren't portrayed as stupid brainless vindictive security drones. Given the overwhelmingly negative portrayal they get here on /., it's a good thing to be reminded that they are people and that some of them, at least, can do their jobs in a reasonably respectful way.

Re:It's even worse

[idontgno]

It's not bigotry unless you fixate on its presumed complement as well: "non-white people are not annoying".

I tend to see that GPP is right, just not comprehensive.

Logical induction: "People are annoying. White people are people. Therefore, white people are annoying. QED."

Re:It's even worse

[Burning1]

You probably already know this, but perhaps it would be informative to the rest of slashdot:

I have a close friend who used to be a commercial pilot. His statement on lap babies: "If anything bad happens during the flight, all the lap babies will die. The only reason the FAA allows it is that bringing a lap baby aboard a plane is still safer than driving."

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/columnist/mcgee/2008-07-29-lap-children_N.htm

You did the right thing.

Re:It's even worse

[Belial6]

nationality is simply a concept that exists solely on paper and cannot be discerned from just looking at someone.

It is amazing how many people don't recognize this. People who should know better consistently get race and nationality confused. It is particularly ironic when people do it in a rant complaining about racism.

Re:It's even worse

[Karl Cocknozzle]

I'm paying 10% more (roughly) in income taxes now than i was three years ago, with no rise in income. President's fault!

There are a lot of Obama-hating Bullshit Artists on here today: Obama didn't raise taxes, so what did you change? Did you pay off a large mortgage that gave you a large tax deduction? Did you stop donating to charity? The rates are (literally) IDENTICAL to what they were when he took office, so you're either lying or omitting a crucial detail.

Re:It's even worse

[LordLimecat]

Apparently, someone at NFTA recognized this bigoted meathead for the bigoted meathead he was and that nationality is simply a concept that exists solely on paper and cannot be discerned from just looking at someone.”

I was going to comment on how profiling works regardless of it being PC, but thought I'd check up on Schneier's thoughts, and I find myself reconsidering my position. Its worth a read:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/05/the_trouble_wit.html

There are still other considerations-- the oft-cited security of Israeli airlines despite the gigantic target painted on them (if muslim terrorists are going to target someone, Israel tends to rank higher on "peoples we dont like" than the US) is often attributed to their use of profiling. But Bruce still makes some pretty good points about cost-benefit of profiling.

seriously?

[jsepeta]

what kind of dipshit is afraid of a t-shirt? obviously this guy is being pushed around because of his name and genetic background. i smell LAWSUIT.

Re:seriously?

[cusco]

I would totally do this, but my wife would kill me. I'm far more afraid of her displeasure than that of some TSA idiot.

Re:seriously?

[pr0nbot]

I once unthinkingly put on a t-shirt that had a machine gun on it on the day I was travelling. At security I was asked to turn it inside out (by the guys with actual machine guns), which I did, and that was that. Thankfully I wasn't wearing one of my other t-shirts...

Re:seriously?

[Sponge Bath]

I guess a t-shirt with a hand pointing to your wife with the caption "She likes being patted down." is out of the question.

Re:seriously?

[mounthood]

what kind of dipshit is afraid of a t-shirt? obviously this guy is being pushed around because of his name and genetic background. i smell LAWSUIT.

IANAL, but all of this has happened before (and it will all happen again):

Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971) was a United States Supreme Court case dealing with freedom of speech. The Court overturned a disturbing the peace conviction of a man wearing a jacket bearing the phrase, "Fuck the Draft."

Holding
The First Amendment, as applied through the Fourteenth, prohibits states from making the public display of a single four-letter expletive a criminal offense, without a more specific and compelling reason than a general tendency to disturb the peace. Court of Appeal of California reversed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohen_v._California

Re:seriously?

[Bob the Super Hamste]

I would only wear that if I wanted a divorce or felt the need to be turned into a eunuch while I sleep.

Re:seriously?

[deanklear]

Here's something more pathetic:

When Charles Swift, a Lieutenant Commander with JAG, went to meet his client and terrorist suspect Salim Hamdan, the jailers at Guantanamo asked him to take off his name tag, so the suspect wouldn't know who he was. Swift asked how he was expected to establish a relationship with his client if he isn't allowed to know his name, and eventually told them that he wasn't going to take it off.

Hamdan was laying in his cell, with his hands shackled to his feet in a fetal position. Once Swift convinced them to let him out of his chains, he then tried to shake Hamdan's hand as they were introduced, and again, the officials there said they weren't allowed to have any physical contact for national security reasons.

In the documentary Secrecy, he stated the following:

If you're to the point that you can be the executioner without telling anyone about it, and not having anyone look at it, and being able to do all that in secret, what's left? What's left?

If I can decide the reasons you will be held in jail for the rest of your life, and I alone get to know them, and I don't have to tell anyone, what's left?

When laid bare, their argument is, there is no limit on Presidential power. The President ultimately decides his power, and no one else. Yet, fundamentally that was what they had claimed for the commissions. Fundamentally, that was what they had claimed for interrogations for wiretapping, all of these things, and done it in secrecy.

But the Hamdan case had the opportunity to begin to pull back the blanket of that bare, raw assertion of power.

Never mistake the actual purpose of the TSA and the security state: it's a raw assertion of power of the Executive to ignore due process. That erosion of the foundations of our legal system represents a continuing threat to our democracy, and at least in my opinion, far exceeds the dangers posed by terrorism. It's literally eliminating the difference between our society and the society that totalitarian extremists desire; the only difference is in who has the key to our chains.

What happened to the Hamdan case? The Supreme Court ruled the commissions at Guantanamo lacked "the power to proceed because its structures and procedures violate both the Uniform Code of Military Justice and the four Geneva Conventions signed in 1949."

In response, the US Congress proposed a new law, the Military Commissions Act, aimed trying to give the President the power to create a commission that could ignore the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions. And it passed in 2006.

Re:seriously?

[mbone]

I'm not sure my wife would wait that long...

Re:seriously?

[mbone]

Actually, they can throw you off for more or less any reason they want to make. The pilot is the Captain. The plane doesn't take off until he says it does. Doesn't mean there might not be consequences, but, in the end, it's his call.

Re:seriously?

[Tesen]

I always continue walking out of a store when some one asks "Can I see your receipt please?" I say, "Nope. This is now my property so hands off." and continue on my way. I had one dude at a well known chain of stores try to step in front of me, heh - I picked up the bags walked around him and I bowed my head and said, "Thank you sir, for returning my cart." quite loudly and left.

Honestly? The first time I did this I was shitting myself - I wanted to play by the rules and not get in trouble or cause trouble. The issue? That is WHAT they are programming us to do - follow the rules, look at your shoes and never look at 'authority' in the eye or question anything they do. If you accept this verbatim with out question then you just agreed to no longer live in a free country. Imagine myself as a strong male being worried about doing this to a freaking store clerk, how do people who are less physically able and emotionally as me able to do this when confronted by actual 'authority' figures? The answer is they cannot!

As Maria Mitchell once said: Question everything!

Tesen

TSA screens rape victem, further traumatizing her

[Maow]

From the same site:

What would have likely been a routine flight out of a Florida airport this weekend ended with a woman being sent to the emergency room after TSA agents insisted on groping a traumatized rape victim in a security pat-down that put her in the hospital.

Live free or die indeed.

TSA got bored

[Sparticus789]

If the Miss Universe pageant had been boarding that plane, the TSA would have been to busy putting them through the body scanner to even notice this guy's shirt.

Re:TSA got bored

[houstonbofh]

RTFA. TSA didn't do it. Delta did. The TSA passed him, and Delta pitched a fit.

Re:TSA got bored

[cffrost]

If the Miss Universe pageant had been boarding that plane, the TSA would have been to busy putting them through the body scanner to even notice this guy's shirt.

I despise the TSA as much as the next informed citizen that values liberty, but this passenger was thrown off the plane by a Delta Airlines pilot.

Re:TSA got bored

[cffrost]

... but this passenger was thrown off the plane by a Delta Airlines pilot.

Yes, by a Delta Airlines Pilot who has the responsibility to ensure that everyone has as safe and pleasant and timely* flight as possible. The pilot has the right to deny anyone access to the plane if they feel that person will be the source of in-flight difficulties.

"In-flight difficulties?" Like what, a couple being lynched by a mob of unruly, cowardly passengers who "feel uncomfortable" about a brown man wearing a satirical t-shirt? Give me a break. There's zero indication that this guy was unpleasant to be around, let alone harmful. I'd rather fly with that guy and his wife than the un-American, "uncomfortable" assholes who should have been coming to the defense of their fellow citizen instead of causing trouble.

fear itself

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi folks,

Just as a brief FYI, we're REALLY starting to worry about you Yanks.
Please get your house in order, before things get truly out of control.
If you wait much longer (and we may be talking seconds here), the choice will be gone.

With compassion,
the Rest of the World

Re:fear itself

[Urza9814]

Dear rest of the world,

We're trying, but as you can see in the other replies, we've got some real idiots to deal with...

  - the (intelligent citizens of the) USA

KKK to TSA

[Cryacin]

Looks like the KKK renamed their acronym to something more paletable.

Re:KKK to TSA

[Vicarius]

In all fairness, it was Delta employees who pushed the issue overboard rather than TSA.

Re:KKK to TSA

[jythie]

Well, yes and no. It was the Delta employees who kicked them off the plane, but it was the TSA employees who were the ones actually causing all the inconvenience. They did a pragmatic thing for their other customers, but for the family it is being a victim twice.. once by the TSA, and a second time by Delta who, instead of going 'hey TSA, leave our paying customer alone' said 'well TSA, you are harassing one of our customers, and that harassment is impacting the rest of our customers, so we will punish the person you don't like so you will leave us alone'.

Which is, in its own way, pretty crummy.

Re:KKK to TSA

[mbone]

If you read the article, TSA passed him just fine, it was a Delta employee who triggered the mess, and a Delta employee who wouldn't let him on the plane. Once Delta raises a flag, of course the TSA is going to have to do something, but they actually seem pretty reasonable from the report in TOA.

Re:KKK to TSA

[the_B0fh]

"He looks foreign" in the latter part of the article, by the TSA agent asking for permission to put him through the wringer.

Did you happen to miss that?

Re:KKK to TSA

[PTBarnum]

Did you happen to miss that "Mark" was an NFTA officer, not a TSA officer, or that his request to "put him through the wringer" was denied?

Re:KKK to TSA

[sed quid in infernos]

"He looks foreign" in the latter part of the article, by the TSA agent asking for permission to put him through the wringer. Did you happen to miss that?

He didn't miss that, because that's not what the article says:

Not before being interrogated further, though, and this time by local law enforcement officers with the NFTA. Even after being booted, Arijit says that transit cops questioned him relentlessly, asking him about where he got his shirt and for details about his family.

According to Arijits account, an NFTA [(Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority)] officer named Mark radioed in on his walkie-talkie for permission to further interrogate the dangerous potential terrorist.

“He gave a stupid answer,” Arijit recalls hearing the officer say to a supervisor. “And he looks foreign.”

The NFTA is not TSA. It's a local transit police department. No, that doesn't make what happened to this guy OK. It's very far from OK. But the principle villains are the pilot and one local police officer, who was overruled by his supervisor.

It doesn't help to bring attention to problems like this inaccurately. Doing that simply gives the people in charge an easy way to ignore and marginalize the complaints.

Re:KKK to TSA

[scharkalvin]

I haven't flow Delta in years, and after hearing that they don't believe in the US constitution and free speech I will NEVER fly them again.
Think I should linkt to this in my blog.

Re:KKK to TSA

[pixelpusher220]

Nobody said they HAVE to abide by it. Funny thing though, if they don't *voluntarily* abide by it, I avoid using their services.

Re:KKK to TSA

[toriver]

Businesses claim First amendment rights (regarding marketing and so on) though, so it would be hypocritical of them to deny that to their paying customers.

Re:KKK to TSA

[pixelpusher220]

Rule 1, when dealing with people with authority. Treat them with respect.

Funny I thought 'Rule 1' was 'Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech'

Silly me.

There are times when security trumps free speech ("Fire!" in a theater, etc.) but those are few and rightly heavily restricted. Wearing a fucking T-Shirt mocking someone is NOT one of those cases.

Can those in power overreact? Sure, but that doesn't make it right.

Re:KKK to TSA

[rtfa-troll]

"Mark" who said that works for the NFTA, not the TSA. In this case "Mark" is personally a shit, but the TSA comes out of this fine. In fact, why don't we just quote Arijit:

It is worth noting that once TSA was involved and had to question me about the meaning of my shirt, they did treat me with the utmost respect and without any malice. Indeed, the lead TSA agent recognized the absurdity of the situation and even apologized I had to go through all this, saying that he found the entire situation to be ridiculous and that he’d let me fly. The same cannot be same about Delta or NFTA transit police.

so what? Well; again from Arijit; at the end of his blog entry.

Write to Delta, their CEO, to the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority Transit Police, and to the feds who are in charge of ensuring that passengers do not have their civil rights violated.

Re:KKK to TSA

[Surt]

Why would it be hypocritical? Just because I claim I have personal free speech rights doesn't mean I have to put up with you shouting obscenities in my house.

Re:KKK to TSA

[Surt]

Treat them with respect if you want things to get steadily worse in the long run. Treat them with respect if you don't want things to get much worse in the short run.

Re:KKK to TSA

[Applekid]

The retard got what he deserved. He chose to wear a shirt to get attention and didn't like the attention he got as a result. That's up there with thinking it's a great idea of wearing a gay pride shirt and prancing around making an ass of yourself at a country fried rock concert to get attention for your political slant, cause, or moral views and being surprised when you get your ass beat by all the rednecks around you. Save that kind of shit for the appropriate venue, like your blog, with your like minded friends, or gay pride parades, places where you're not on enemy soil surrounded by the enemy itself. If you're determined to go to where the enemy lives, there is safety in numbers, don't be stupid and do that shit solo or you will get the attention you're looking for and you won't like it.

Clearly anyone who disagrees with the erosion of rights and the ever ballooning tyranny of the government should be treated shabbily.

Re:KKK to TSA

[uniquename72]

Undoing accidental downvote (because, you know, it would be awful to just allow votes to be changed).

Re:KKK to TSA

[TheGavster]

They are allowed extra powers, for the most part they refrain from using them, but if you are going to make their lives difficult, they will use their power to make yours difficult too.

Yes, I do seem to recall the reason behind empowering police and the justice system being to make life difficult for anyone who sticks their head up. It's time we lifted the burden of preserving public safety from these people; they clearly have enough abuse already!

Re:KKK to TSA

[steveg]

You're missing the part where the TSA didn't give him a particularly bad time. They passed him through, said he was OK to board.

Then a Delta employee at the gate freaked out and called for more questioning and made a big hullabaloo about it, resulting in a big delay for the flight and ultimately causing the pilot to refuse him boarding privileges. The TSA was never very upset at him, nor he with them. That wasn't the case for the local transit cops, but they aren't the TSA.

Re:KKK to TSA

[sumdumass]

This isn't really your house though. It's a public company doing business with the public. Can you refuse to sell shoes or food to someone with a Mitt Romney or Burak Obama Tshirt on?

Re:KKK to TSA

[JayBat]

You're a little short on reading comprehension, there, cupcake. Go back and RTFA.

TSA had no problem with Arijit and his wife, and properly passed them right through the checkpoint and on to their gate. It was an idiot Delta gate agent, most likely aided by one or more idiot Delta passengers that decided that Arijit was the wrong color errr, I mean, a threat to safety.

Thereafter, like-minded idiots where found from many different organizations (if you were there, *you* could have volunteered!), but TSA behaved professionally throughout from Arijit's description.

Re:KKK to TSA

[SourceFrog]

Do you also think Rosa Parks 'got what she deserved' when they arrested her?

Re:KKK to TSA

[pixelpusher220]

Uh, wearing a T-Shirt with a message is most definitely 'speech'. See the DeCSS fun where the code was put on a T-shirt than then was protected as 'speech'.

Delta is not the government. However there were multiple government entities represented there and they weren't telling Delta to stand down, they were trying to take this guy in for *more* questioning.

You treat authority with respect...when they deserve it. Simply wearing a T-Shirt is NOT treating them with disrespect.

Going by what we know of the situation, he did nothing to warrant such intensive treatment by multiple (armed) security guards. He said he clearly stated it was mocking the state of security and thus is without doubt free speech. If authority can't deal with being mocked, its rather an American tradition, then well we have bigger problems as a nation than we're talking about here.

Re:KKK to TSA

[pixelpusher220]

So you're in favor of vigilantism? The situation you describe is text book taking the law into your own hands. I'm sure the kid would "have rarely felt as justified" if he'd turned around and shot you either. Doesn't make it right, but hey he felt justified in doing it so it must have been ok?

We all the right to be an asshole. It's called free speech.

Re:KKK to TSA

[purelaborja]

Yes, That is what she wanted. Read history, there were several sent out to try to get arrested. The whole idea was to get a test case.

Re:KKK to TSA

[DirtyLiar]

The retard got what he deserved... That's up there with thinking it's a great idea of wearing a gay pride shirt and prancing around making an ass of yourself at a country fried rock concert...

You're equating the TSA and Delta Airlines to a bunch of drunk rednecks.

Someone is being insulted there. I'm just not sure who.

Freedom to wear the shirt.

[Sez Zero]

Freedom to wear the shirt, not free from the consequences of wearing the shirt.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[fredrated]

And why should there be consequences to wearing a f***ing t-shirt, I think that is the jist of the discussion.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[imnotanumber]

Freedom to wear the shirt, not free from the consequences of wearing the shirt.

By that logic, even the people from North Korea are free, even to mock their beloved ruler...

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[JaredOfEuropa]

Very true, and it's something that's often forgotten by people who cry about their freedom of expression.

However, those consequences should not have to include unwarranted abuse by the TSA. The TSA is there to keep passengers safe by keeping people with ill intent out, period. Their remit does not (or should not) include harassing people who rub them the wrong way. If they detained him purely because of the shirt, then they should be taken to task for that. And this seems to be the case... why else would the airline captain mention the shirt at all?

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[Wovel]

Freedom from government consequences....

However, it appears it was Delta (a Private company) that complained and ultimately decided they did not want him as a customer. By his own account the TSA let him through without any hassle. They were probably busy groping children and old people.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[evilRhino]

False equivalency. The TSA (government) let him through without incident, it was a private business (Delta) that blocked him from boarding the plane.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[Dr Damage I]

If harassing someone because they're wearing a T shirt that mocks them seems to TSA agents as "only doing their job", they need some serious retraining. Or better yet, some serious firing. Out of a cannon by preference but from their job will do in a pinch

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[zzsmirkzz]

How can anyone be naive enough to think that you can wear an anti-TSA T-shirt when you're going through a TSA checkpoint and not have a problem?

I don't know, perhaps they read the First Amendment and thought it actually still applied.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

We have the right in this country to criticize our government, its agencies and agents without fear from legal repercussions from them. So, yes, when government agents harass him simply because he criticized them it is a big deal.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[NeutronCowboy]

Really? You're ok with someone getting physically assaulted because they said something to someone? And something that isn't really that offensive? What the fuck happened to "land of the free"? What the fuck happened to your freedoms stop at my nose?

I know where this is going, and it is truly fucking scary: It's ok for someone to get physically abused as long as I don't like them.

Wow. The US is fucked.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[shentino]

If the TSA made a stink about it, that's government abuse and that's one thing.

The airline however is a private business.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[shentino]

The way we bend over and take it, it is certainly not the home of the brave, either.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[Anonymous Coward]

Freedom to wear the shirt, not free from the consequences of wearing the shirt.

Very true, and it's something that's often forgotten by people who cry about their freedom of expression.

But it's not true. Freedom *is* to be free from the consequences--in this context, specifically the government-imposed ones.

Otherwise, we would say everyone has the freedom to wear (or do) whatever they want, but you know, you might just get disappeared by government agents for it as a consequence. I wouldn't call that freedom at all.

What I think you meant, however, is that people often forget that having freedom from government-imposed consequences does not magically make them free from all consequences.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[mbone]

How can anyone be naive enough to think that you can wear an anti-TSA T-shirt when you're going through a TSA checkpoint and not have a problem?

Once again, read the article. He had no problem from the TSA. He went through the checkpoint just fine. He had a problem with Delta. He was cleared again by the TSA. Delta then wouldn't let him on the plane.

I hate to feel like an apologist for the TSA, but I don't see that they did anything out of line here.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[mbone]

And while private companies are excused from violating constitutional rights (free speech in this case) if they have "special" status like common carrier (which airlines do have) then perhaps their special status should be yanked...

Good luck with that.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[mbone]

In my experience, if you are kicked off a flight "for cause," they will not refund your money. And if (as I suspect) his wife could have flown, but chose not to board before him, they won't refund her money either.

I was once part of a party where one member was kicked off by the Chief Stewardess, not the pilot. I saw the whole thing, strongly felt it wasn't justified, and said, if he is not flying, I am not flying either. That really surprised the crew, but they didn't back down, so in the end 4 of us left the plane. They then called us over to the counter for some bullshit reason as a ruse to get the cops there, so we could be escorted out of the airport. I had to rent a van to get us all to DC.

I guess what I learned is, if you get kicked off an airplane, just walk away. And, I must admit, I had a sense of sublime joy when that particular airline went out of business.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[pclminion]

Ah, the war cry of censorship-lovers. Did you know that you are also free to murder in this country? You just aren't free from the consequences! Amazing.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[betterunixthanunix]

Fire in a crowded theater and all that

A phrase used to justify upholding the conviction of someone who dared to hand out anti-draft flyers.

You can test those limits at an airport if you want to, but you'd best be prepared to accept the subsequent government-mandated prostate exam and you'd best be prepared to lose your court case too.

There are other consequences of daring to stand up to the TSA, beyond the gropings. When I told the TSA that there was no way I would step into a full body scanner, they made me wait 10 minutes before giving me a pat down, and when they opened the metal detector they said I still had to wait. The entire time, my luggage was sitting unattended on the other side of the checkpoint, including my laptop -- anyone could have stolen or damaged my things. When I asked why I couldn't go through the metal detector like all the other people, I was told that I had opted out of the scanner and therefore had to be patted down. When I asked if I was being punished for exercising my rights, a TSA employee suddenly found the time to do the pat down.

We are beyond just "accepting the consequences" of exercising our rights at this point. We are talking about a lawless organization (how else do you describe people who ignore court orders?) that reeks of corruption and which actively and deliberately attacks Americans and American rights.

Re:Freedom to wear the shirt.

[Bigby]

The TSA is part of the executive branch, whose power is derived from the President of the United States. The President of the United States executes the laws of the nation, which are created by the Constitution of the United States and the Congress. So what law allows the TSA to abridge the freedom of speech?

Quite a lot

[ah.clem]

>> Just how much humiliation is the general American public willing to tolerate in the name of 'security'?"

Quite a lot apparently, quite a lot.

Re:Quite a lot

[MickyTheIdiot]

It's not toleration. It's just that it doesn't have anything to do with the Kardashians.

TSA info chart

[worf_mo]

The TSA info chart is quite interesting.

Overt Camoflague

[d3jake]

Because someone who is that obvious about wearing an anti-TSA shirt will *totally* be the one who's going to not draw suspicion so they can bomb a plane....riiiight...

The real story link

[OzPeter]

Arijit's actual blog Arijit Vs. Delta

Love the Shirt!

[dopaz]

Where can I buy that shirt?

Re:TSA screens rape victem, further traumatizing h

[Anonymous Coward]

America is the only country that gropes It's passengers. Israel profiles, & has no hijackings.

Simple...Don't Fly

[Cpt_Kirks]

I see no reason to submit to their bullshit. I have not flown in nearly 7 years, and don't see it happening any time soon.

If enough people simply refuse to fly, the airlines will go belly up, or they will lobby to remove the TSA. Though, the private thugs they replace them with probably won't be any better.

Re:Simple...Don't Fly

[cusco]

Nah, the airlines will just ask for yet another government bailout, and get it. How many times has Continental been rescued from bankruptcy by the Feds? Three, I think, plus they (and IIRC the rest of the industry) were liberated from the burden of actually honoring the pension plans in the legally binding contract that they signed with their employees.

Illusions

[chill]

While some people grumble and complain about the process, I've also encountered many people who believe what the TSA is doing is actually protecting them from terrorism.

More to the point, they honestly believe that there are terrorists right around the corner just waiting to blow them up. Not in an abstract but THEM, specifically. You know, it could happen anywhere so it could happen to YOU and it could happen HERE!

Their lives are so boring and mundane they get a thrill over the possibility that something important could happen to them or someone they know. Even if it is something like a terrorist attack, it makes them feel special. As if the town of Bumfuck, Nowhere was chosen special for a target.

It gives them something to gossip about. "What if..." It is essentially one of the same motivations that drives people to buy lottery tickets. They can dream "what if..." and not have to face the dull reality that is their life.

It's really sad.

Not the TSA

[bickerdyke]

As most of you, I only read TFS, but this wasn't the TSA to blame.

It's completly in a pilots discretion if he want's to have some prankster on board who doesn't care if the whole flight gets delayed because of a funny shirt.

He has the right to remove anyone from the plane. For anything else, complain to the airline afterwards.

This system works as long as you put somewhat reasonable and responsible people in the cockpit. And if he pulls that stunt too often, he'll be sanctioned by his employer. That's a completly different situation from some minimum-wage guy who only would get sanctioned for NOT bullying people around and gets paid (and perhaps rewarded) for strictly following procedures, not thinking about if that would be stupid.

Please note: I don't say what the pilot did was right, but he had the right to make that descision.

Re:Not the TSA

[tgd]

Please note: I don't say what the pilot did was right, but he had the right to make that descision.

This is what happens when make pilots stop drinking before their flights ...

Re:Not the TSA

[Hatta]

If you're expressing concern over the content of someone's t-shirt, you are the one who should be removed. No exceptions. That kind of behavior should never be tolerated.

Let me restate for emphasis: If you are panicking over the content of someone's t-shirt, you are far more dangerous than the t-shirt wearer.

Text of the shirt

[martyros]

First, its important to know exactly what the shirt said. Neither the summary nor the article quote it, but the image printed on the shirt seems to say:

BOMBS ZOMG ZOMG TERRORISTS GONNA KILL US ALL ZOMG ZOMG ALERT LEVEL BLOODRED RUN RUN TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES MOISTURE

Now, it's always been pretty clear to me that just saying the word "bomb" in an airpot is a recipe for trouble. Lots of signs are posted everywhere saying that all statements must be taken seriously, even if they're said in a joking manner. In other words, you just don't joke about bombs in an airport.

Secondly, the summary doesn't make it clear that it wasn't the TSA who took issue with things, and ultimately kicked him off the plane, but that it was a guy from Delta. It seems completely plausible to me that some of the other passengers saw his shirt and really were "very uncomfortable". Maybe they shouldn't have been, but nonetheless they were. Given that there were customers who were uncomfortable, and the fact that this guy really should have known better than wear a shirt with "bomb" on it in the airpot, I can see why the Delta rep kicked the guy off the flight.

Re:Text of the shirt

[martyros]

OK, it's one thing to only go off what was said in the summary, but it's another thing to just make stuff up out of thin air and then be offended about it. If you read his blog post, which is linked to from TFA, you'll find that Delta gave he and his wife another flight the next day.

of course he got booted

[nauseum_dot]

I'm going to say that most people 45+ don't know what ZOMG means. Therefore, seeing something that says "Gonna Kill US All ZOMG" would be a bit unnerving. Even though it is security theater, society has norms that state when people deem to be right and wrong. Wearing a shirt that has that message is wrong because it breaks those societal courtesies. Putting someone's grandma in a state of unease for something that is already not exactly the most fun doesn't sit well in my book.

I applaud the pilot. It is his job to get the plane safely in the air and back to the ground. He probably saw it for what it was, but decided he didn't want one the passengers beating the shit out of this guy mid-air because they felt threatened. Bruce Schneier has pointed out numerous times that the acts against the World Trade Center have empowered the average citizen to stand up and fight if they closely felt threatened. That could have been the case and may have saved the student further grief.

Re:of course he got booted

[Stiletto]

Wow, that was a lot of rationalization. Let's examine the serious crimes you say justified the pilot's actions:

1. Being "Unnerving" to people aged 45+
2. Breaking societal courtesies
3. Putting grandma in a state of unease
4. Potentially becoming a victim of assault by another passenger

Yea, I'd say the pilot exercised good judgment. Clearly this guy was a serious threat.

Re:of course he got booted

[sootman]

Has anyone, ever, been, for example, shot by someone wearing a shirt that said "I'm going to shoot you" on it? Or seen robbers wearing "I'm going to rob you" shirts?

When I was a little kid 30 years ago, I always thought the Halloween costumes of the day were dumb -- Darth Vader DOES NOT HAVE A PICTURE OF HIMSELF ON HIS CHEST. Same thing here.

> I'm going to say that most people 45+ don't know what ZOMG
> means. Therefore, seeing something that says "Gonna Kill US
> All ZOMG" would be a bit unnerving."

Really? People who have lived that long tend to be SOMEWHAT smart. Furthermore, they have DECADES of experience seeing boys and men of all ages in wacky shirts. If a 45 year old saw someone in a shirt that said "blah blah blah Gonna Kill US All blah blah blah" do you REALLY think their first thought would be "Oh my dear sweet white God in heaven, he's announcing his plans to harm me!", or do you think they'd go "Huh? Must be some video game or rock thing I don't know about."

A 45 year old was a teenager when the Dead Kennedys were in their prime. You think they've forgotten subversive shirts?

Most probably wouldn't even try to read the letters. Those that did, wouldn't care.

Re:of course he got booted

[Hatta]

Even though it is security theater, society has norms that state when people deem to be right and wrong

Is it too much to ask that those norms be at least partially based on reason?

Wearing a shirt that has that message is wrong because it breaks those societal courtesies

In any sane society complaining about a tshirt would be wrong because it breaks social courtesies.

Putting someone's grandma in a state of unease for something that is already not exactly the most fun doesn't sit well in my book.

Persecuting people for the contents of their tshirt puts me at unease. Take the paranoid racist grandma off the flight and leave the nice man with the tshirt alone.

He probably saw it for what it was, but decided he didn't want one the passengers beating the shit out of this guy mid-air because they felt threatened.

Then he should have removed the people he felt were risks of violence and not the victim.

Re:of course he got booted

[Sir_Eptishous]

First off, go fuck yourself and your "45+" ageism.

Second, if TSA cleared him, meaning he is no threat, then the pilot or whatever other deuchebag that got their panties in a twist over his shirt should not have had a problem. Grandma in a state of unease? Fuck you. I fly regularly and see people wearing OTT Heavy Metal concert shirts bearing all manner of distasteful imagery and text, and I bet a lot of them do it because THEY KNOW IT BOTHERS PEOPLE(which I think is great, and shows other countries/cultures what is great, or used to be, about America...) with cunt like sensibilities like yours(and Grandmas).

And to conclude, since the first thing you think about in this situation is violence, violence towards a passenger over a shirt, that is obviously a joke, maybe it's you that needs to be kept off the plane.

The US population LOVES the TSA

[bheuvel78]

Not sure why you all complain, the US loves the TSA:

Despite recent negative press, a majority of Americans, 54%, think the U.S. Transportation Security Administration is doing either an excellent or a good job of handling security screening at airports. At the same time, 41% think TSA screening procedures are extremely or very effective at preventing acts of terrorism on U.S. airplanes, with most of the rest saying they are somewhat effective.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/08/poll_americans.html

Re:TSA screens rape victem, further traumatizing h

[cffrost]

America is the only country that gropes It's passengers. Israel profiles, & has no hijackings.

Profiling by ethnicity doesn't work; for one thing, it's vulnerable to proxy bomb attacks. I've posted links on this many times before; search for the "Carnival Booth" paper from MIT. I recommend Schneier's site or DuckDuckGo.

El Al's security apparatus (behavioral profiling, interviews, luggage depressurization, and tarmac security, off the top of my head) have been said to be infeasible due to scalability in a country of over 300 million. However, I haven't seen an data to back up this claim, nor have I done the math.

I'm not saying I support the current system; I find it deplorable and refuse to fly, going on six years. I'd like to see a return to sane, pre-2001-09 security procedures. At least, that's what it'd take to get me to voluntarily set foot on a commercial airliner again.

Re:TSA screens rape victem, further traumatizing h

[icebraining]

Israel profiles, & has no hijackings.

Since I started walking with a rock in my pocket, I have never been robbed. Clearly rocks in pockets prevent thefts.

Re:TSA screens rape victem, further traumatizing h

[geminidomino]

El Al's security apparatus (behavioral profiling, interviews, luggage depressurization, and tarmac security, off the top of my head) have been said to be infeasible due to scalability in a country of over 300 million. However, I haven't seen an data to back up this claim, nor have I done the math.

Oh, the math is easy.

Doing it THAT way would require them to actually train (as opposed to simply recognizing the threat color scheme) and pay skilled-worker wages, as opposed to giving a badge to -- well, to what we have now (See? I was nice)

Re:t-shirt trolling

[shentino]

Does being a dumbass magically give bullies the right to beat him up, or merely deny him the privilege of bitching about it?

Dear British person

[alispguru]

(guessing from your use of "Yanks")

A bunch of us agree with you. Between the traumas of 9/11 and our self-inflicted over-reaction to it, it may take us a generation to dial our national paranoia back to appropriate levels, but we'll probably succeed.

While we're working on that, could you please look into fixing your libel laws? The whole "I'm suing because you told people something true" thing has got to go, really.

Thanks,
USA

Not the TSA this time

[Roger W Moore]

...but he had the balls to risk some heat to exercise his rights and bring attention to the stupidity of the TSA.

It was not the TSA that were being stupid here - they passed him through all the security checks the first time without any particular issue. The problem here lies in the general reaction of US society. Yes the guy was being an idiot and living in the US should have known the likely outcome but why is it that nobody could recognise him for the idiot that he was and treat the situation appropriately? Blowing it out of all proportion like this only makes the authorities appear like idiots themselves and encourages more of this stupid behaviour because of all the attention their response gets. You would have thought that with a lesson like the Salem witch trials 300+ years ago US society would have learnt the lesson by now.

Re:Not the TSA this time

[tnk1]

If by lesson, you mean, "we can burn innocent people on trumped up charges and get away with it," then yes, there was a lesson there. However, I don't think it was the lesson you think was learned.

Thing is, this is a very strong example of the difference between public and private in the US. He did something he has every right to do, which is wear an inflammatory statement on a t-shirt. Delta did what they had every right to do: ban him from the aircraft. Arjit was counting on the fact that the government is bound by the First Amendment. What he failed to consider is that Delta Airlines is not, and they didn't feel like dealing with him.

In short, if he was prepared for this result as a part of a larger protest, then I get it. If he just wanted to get from one place to another, he's a moron.

Re:Not the TSA this time

[Anonymous Coward]

Seeing as all airlines are private they are in a special situation where they should not be allowed to act arbitrarily. We aren't talking about someone wandering into your private business here. As long as you provide a vital public service you should be beholden to the Constitution. If this is unacceptable then the airlines should be nationalized.

Re:Not the TSA this time

[jedidiah]

You see this sort of thing on consumer advocacy sites all the time. Some petty beaurocrat from an airline will get their panties in a bunch and you will be denied entry to the airplane. It's not just limited to people that are trolling the TSA.

This seems much less like an example of the TSA acting like brown shirts. This seems to be the all too common case of some b*tch at the gate going on a power trip.

Trivial nonsense can set these people off. You don't have to be confrontational at all.

Re:Not the TSA this time

[pixelpusher220]

I find it hard to believe people actually spent time reading a shirt. That's a lot of print so it wasn't like it was in 4 inch letters, and it's upside down around a circle.

It's a *whole lot* more believable that said general public saw a 'furriner' and was uncomfortable with him.

I'll stand by that the TSA should have been telling the locals and Delta to stand down and let the guy board. If the rest of the plane is uncomfortable, they are more than free to get off and take a different flight. But HE shouldn't have been booted off because someone else was uncomfortable.

Re:TSA screens rape victem, further traumatizing h

[mjr167]

Isreal actually trains thier security to look for suspicious behavior instead of assuming everyone is a suspect. Profiling doesn't neccessarily mean "assume all blacks/arabs/hispanics/whater are guilty." I can also mean "the suspicious looking guy might be guilty so lets go talk to him." You will also notice that countries that are actually afraid of terrorist bombings don't have long lines outside security checkpoints because terrorists like to bomb the checkpoints. If you care about security you get everyone through the check point as quickly as possible. We just like harrassing innocent citizens.

Re:t-shirt trolling

[drewco]

Nobody said it gave them the right, and this guy's right to bitch about it hasn't been denied. The point is that there are consequences, right or wrong, to going out of your way to be a jackass.

Whose humiliation?

[Feyshtey]

The general American public will tolerate enormous amounts of humiliation and discomfort, so long as its you that is humiliated or discomforted. Or that guy over there. Or one of those Tea Party nuts, or a freakjob Libertarian, or especially one of those dark-skinned foreigners. Until they are forced to stand aside and watch them take their 8 year old child to a special little space to be patted down, they do not particularly care how inconvenienced or violated you are. They are "safe" and that's all that matters....

Re:European TSA

[ledow]

I once knew an American girl who came to visit in England. She came over with a friend of mine and then we were all travelling on to Corfu. On the queue to airport security on the way to Heathrow to fly to Corfu, she pulled something out of her bag and said "Is this alright to take on the plane if they don't allow fluids? It's been in my bag for months"

It was a CS spray. Totally, 100% illegal to even own in the UK, let alone bring with you in your hand luggage from America to the UK, unchecked.

She was hastily silenced by her English companion, who dropped it into one of those "prohibited water bottle" bins, and we just moved down the line.

She would have been arrested on the spot if she was carrying it in the UK (even owning it is arrestable!). But she'd managed to go through the US customs, through UK customs and only because SHE pulled it out on her second trip through did anyone even know it was there. And this was only a few years ago - still recent enough to have the liquids-on-planes paranoia.

Re:Don't Give Up On Us, We Haven't

[Anonymous Coward]

There is so much naivete in this post, I'm naming it Bambi.

Arjit has advanced cancer

[Anonymous Coward]

His behavior might have something to do with the fact that he is being treated for stage IV colon cancer. He probably cares less than the average person what society's long-term opinion of him will be, and hopes that his behavior (and any reaction to it) could be a force for long-term improvement of the world.

Century of the Self

[bussdriver]

"Century of the Self" a good documentary which is only an intro to the selfishness of Americans and why they are so gullible and ignorant. From there you can find on your own why they are so unjustifiably confident and optimistic and how that increases failure (including wars.)

FYI, I'm American but somehow I slipped bye being socialized into one of the herd.

Re:TSA screens rape victem, further traumatizing h

[icebraining]

Why do you want me to prove something I didn't claim? Why didn't you demand proof from the person who actually _did_ claim something?

Re:Bombs and terrorists

[jonnythan]

You do have the freedom to express yourself.

Delta pilots also have the freedom to kick you off their planes if you do so in a disruptive way.

Re:Not quite

[PhillC]

How about if someone wore "I AM A FIRESTARTER" at a movie theater?

They may just be a fan of The Prodigy.

Re:nt

[mbone]

So let me get this straight.

Even AFTER the tsa boards the guy, the pilot, lord of his personal fiefdom, can expel a passenger just for wearing a t-shirt, and even after he already paid for his plane ticket?

You bet. The pilot is Captain, and no one flies on his (or her) plane unless he approves.

More than that -

I know someone who received a lifetime ban from British Airways for getting very drunk on a trans-Atlantic flight. (Among other things, they spilled a Bloody Mary on an entire row of passengers.)

Now, I am not saying that it wasn't deserved, but it was done on the spot, with recourse and no appeal. So, yes, they can do that too.

In this case, apparently he and his wife were flown the next day. Inconvenient, but not so bad.

I have to wonder what reaction a t-shirt saying "Banned for Life from British Airways" might get from Delta.

Re:Privilege, not a right

[AF_Cheddar_Head]

Travel by other than foot is a privilege and provided by the good will of corporations and government, maybe I should have heard a woosh when i read that but would you kindly point me to the Article of the Constitution that says or even implies the US government has the authority to regulate all forms of travel, and as for corporations, are you implying that I must buy a bicycle, I can't build my own because that will cause some corporation to lose money.

You need help.

Old thinkgeek rm -rf /bin/laden shirt

[INeededALogin]

Bought the shirt back in the post 9/11 days and accidentally wore it coming home on an international flight. I saw it as a patriotic shirt, but wife saw it and flipped out while we were at the airport. Got asked about the shirt by TSA, explained that it was technically a patriotic shirt and was good. An anti-TSA shirt is technically a patriotic shirt as well. Sad day:-(

Re:What did he expect?

[INeededALogin]

But is it really necessary to mock TSA in the open...
Taunting them and expecting them to let you actually proceed with your plans is pretty dumb. There's a time and place to protest and make fun of idiotic behavior of our government. When you want get on a plane, that's not the time.

You fail to understand the point of protests. If you protest in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'... Nobody is really going to hear you. What the guy did is a form of Civil Disobedience. Nobody is suppose to protest the government security while going through the security. The herds are suppose to get in line and just take it. You should be applauding this guy for doing what you are too scared or too worried about missing a flight to do.

Re:Except captains, they have the right

[michelcolman]

You can't open the door in flight. The doors are constructed in such a way that air pressure from inside the plane pushes the door closed. Even at low altitudes, there's more than enough differential pressure to make it impossible for someone to open the door. Some pressurisation failures can even result in the crew not being able to open the door on the ground (if just a small amount of differential pressure remains), requiring a special procedure to depressurize the plane before the doors can be opened.

A Tiger-repellant rock?

[DrYak]

I'm not saying I support the current system; I find it deplorable and refuse to fly, going on six years.

Before the current policies (groping, irradiating, etc) began: What has been the rate of *successful* terrorist attacks over the previous 10 years? (I'm asking about actually successful attempts. I'm not talking about idiots who almost won a honorary darwin awards by setting their pant on fire, or got zerg-rushed by the rest of the passengers. Or the crazie raving lunatics who got encouraged by a cover agent who had to provide them the whole (fake) material and an actual plan, just so they would act out something [stupid] and get caught because otherwise they would have kept mumbling things and drooling alone)
How does their annual death toll compare against victims of car accidents and victims of cardio-vascular diseases ? (To take the 2 leading causes of death in the developed world). Or even compared to victims struck by lightning (to take another example of dramatic and rare cause of death) ?

My opinion is that such common sense analysis will prove that we aren't gaining much by all this theater appart from inconvenience, and that (no matter how much tragic and traumatic it has been for the victims of 9/11 and their families) the impact of terrorism is a very small and insignificant occasional bump in the statistics.

It's as useful as the simpson's tiger repellant rock.

We would gain much more by a "War on cars!!!!" and "War on burgers!!!!" than a "War on ter'rists!!!" But we still have to wait longer for those.

take a picture and get the same reaction

[Thorodin]

Slightly OT, but if you think this is bad, just do a search on all the hassles people who like to take pictures go through. Legally, you can pretty much take a picture of anything with certain obvious exclusions (federal buildings, nuke plant interiors, etc). Yet, there are numerous occasions where a person taking a picture is harassed: threatened with physical harm*, arrest, seizure of the phone. *In a suburb of Grand Rapids, MI, a man was seen taking a picture of a water tower. Apparently, this tower had some interesting designs on it. Anyway, a few construction workers noticed and came over to him an demanded to know what in hell he was doing, where he was from, his name. The gentleman protested that he did not have to answer their questions and walked away to a diner. The men followed him there and then called the police. Police came, checked the man out and decided there was no cause for alarm or justification for them to do anything other than take his name down. The next day, after it was reported in the local news, the mayor of Wyoming, let me repeat that the MAYOR said those men had done nothing wrong. I don't know if the man ever sued but I would have. I would have sued those construction workers and thrown in the mayor as one condoning intimidation and possibly assault.

Sounds like Delta can't be trusted with my money

[Cajun Hell]

The main thing I'm getting out of TFA has nothing to do with TSA or my country's increasingly high tolerance for tyranny.

What I'm seeing here is strong evidence that Delta doesn't honor the tickets that they sell. Delta (not TSA) kicked him off, and for no even half-sensible reason, to the point that it almost sides like an excuse (did someone else happen to board and take the seat?). It was totally arbitrary.

I don't happen to have any anti-TSA T-shirts, but I do own T-shirts, and some of them have words, and I have no fucking idea what some random employee might find offensive. ("Eek! Your shirt has the name of a metal band on it! That's the devil's music!") This time it was a comedic/mocking logo. It could also be for a competing logo (your shirt contains the word "southwest" and that's making me uncomfortable) or a political party, or the fact that you wore a T-shirt at all instead of something with buttons (yes, people who care about such things really do exist and I have no way of knowing whether or not Delta has hired one of them), or hair length, or a beard style, or skin color, or whatever.

If it happened to this guy, it could happen to anyone. It could happen to me. And for no good reason.

If you buy an airline ticket from Delta, the ticket might not "work," and not for reasons beyond anyone's control (e.g. weather) but some jerk's arbitrary whim, and you can't reasonably predict or prevent it. That sounds like an untrustworthy business. Hopefully this guy will at least have the sense to report the fraud to BBB.

And hopefully Delta will be tripping over themselves to assure the public that the guy got paid back, with a lot of extra to cover his trouble and embarrassment, and do anything and everything they can to assure people their ticket sales business is not some kind of fly-by-night scam.

Respect? Question!

[jeko]

That's odd. In the America I grew up, on a military base surrounded by F-4 Phantom jets and armed men ridiculously overqualified to kill you, on the school on that base I was taught to QUESTION AUTHORITY, to HOLD AUTHORITY ACCOUNTABLE, that my father and his colleagues practiced the bloody art of mayehm to KEEP US FREE, not to kowtow to those in authority.

I was taught that we routinely hold elections so we could hold elected officials, referred to as PUBLIC SERVANTS, accountable for their actions. I grew up among armed men in uniform who took me to national monuments and proudly declaimed that We the People were the source of authority, that men in uniform always, always, ALWAYS deferred to a civilian commander in chief.

Reading your post sounds odd to someone raised by the sound of Phantom and Tomcat jets. Respecting authority for authority's sake was something we said the Commies and the Nazis did. :-) Americans were born free and bowed to no one. Give me Liberty or Give Me Death. Don't Tread on Me.

Of course, I'm sorry. Reading your post, I assume you must come from some tragic country like Burma or North Korea where you have to bow and scrape just to get by. Please send our warmest regards and deepest repect to Aung San Suu Kyi, who knows more about what it means to be an American than you ever will.

Hey, wait a minute. Cartman? Eric Cartman?! Is that you Cartman?

Re:Respect? Question!

[Mufasa_ooh_sayitagai]

Thanks for writing that. As a veteran of similar age (based upon what you wrote), I appreciate that some still understand freedom, free will, and moral obligations. My oath as an enlisted man was to uphold the Constitution and follow the orders of those appointed over me. As an officer my oath dropped the "orders of those appointed over me" part. Something tells me that's intentional.

I will always defend the Constitution as I have promised. At one time I did so with arms. I know do so with words, actions, and my vote.

Remember: Make sure you've got your papers with you at all times. Do not forget your duty to obey, comrade. Cheese will be handed out next Tuesday. ..."Wolverines!!!!!!!"

Re:Except captains, they have the right

[tompaulco]

To back this up, at altitude, there is a differential pressure of at least 4 pounds per square inch. Do you know how many square inches there are on an airplane door? A lot. A 2 X 6 foot door is 1728 square inches, and would take 6912 pounds of force to open.

Re:Except captains, they have the right

[tompaulco]

Wearing a t-shirt that says bite me to a dog convention, is pretty damned crazy.
Only if the dogs can read. Unfortunately for us, Delta personnel can apparently read, and not only read, but can read things which are irrelevant to the safety and operation of the airplane.

True story

[hey!]

I was scheduled to fly from Boston to LA on 9/11, but cancelled the day before to go to a meeting at Oracle's office up in Nashua.

With the mess I wasn't able to book a flight for my CA trip until the following week, and the security lines were unlike anything I'd ever seen. I was in the middle of a line well over a hundred passengers long, with my colleague Arun. A security guard strolled down the line, stopped at Arun and said, "Sir, you have been chosen for a random security check." "I'm with him," I said. "Do you want to do me too?" "That won't be necessary," the security guard said. Arun was a good sport about it, but they picked him out because he was the only brown person in the line. Isn't it kind of useless to pat down the brown suspect when his white companion gets a free pass?

Anyhow I suspect the issue here is the same: flying while South Asian. If this were a white man it wouldn't have been an issue. We haven't come far from September 2001. Americans are still suspicious of people who look different. Sikhs still get grief because even after eleven years still we can't get it through our fat heads they aren't Muslims.

Nope, not even close

[jeko]

If you are in the military and a general comes, you salute him even if you hate his guts, and you don't give him the middle finger.

Nope. You absolutely don't salute Him. Unless he has personally done something that has earned your respect, you're never saluting him.

You're saluting the uniform. You always, always, always salute the office, not the man. The office, again, is a function of the People of the United States, and a symbol of our highest ideals. That uniform is a walking implementation of the idea that "All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights..." That's why it's worthy of a salute, because it carries an Idea, not just Power. That's why the Oath you swear when you pick up a gun is always to the Constitution, never a man.

If all that uniform carries is Power, if the only thing a uniform has to offer is Force, then "it is [your] right, it is [your] duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for [your] future security."

It chills me to my bones to hear an American claim that a government official should be respected simply because he has brute force behind him. Whatever happened to "the Spirit of '76?"

Re:Nope, not even close

[Lucractius]

People like yourself give me hope that one day I will be able to enjoy a visit to a USA that wont keep my prints on file permanently just cause i wasnt born in the country. People should be able to come to the, 'land of the free', 'home of the brave' and marvel at the things accomplished by one of the greatest nations in history. Not feel like they are entering a suspicious surveillance state where as a foreigner they will be measured, details filed permanently away 'just in case', and tracked with advanced dragnet digital surveillance systems looking for key words regardless of who they are, be it 6 year old girl from France, 30 year old man from Japan, or 80 year old woman from Iraq, all because the people are too afraid to accept the reality of life that it includes risks, that bad things happen, bombs go off, people die, and more of their people die of heart disease, cancer and crossing the street than they ever lost in a war anywhere or on any stupid ideological invisible enemy.

Your Intelligent words have made me smile and reminded me why I grew up as a child admiring all the great things done by the USA and wanting to go see those places.

Did you sleep through this part of bootcamp?

[jeko]

If you have a moral objection to an order, you are obligated to make your concerns known. However, making your concerns known does not have to happen immediately.

Were you asleep that day? Does "Nuremburg" ring a bell? How about "My Lai?" If you have a moral objection to an order, you PUT YOUR DAMNED WEAPON DOWN! Your official scripted response is "I'm sorry, sir, but that is an unlawful order and I cannot follow it." The military makes it crystal clear that not only do you have a duty to refuse an unlawful order, but you will be prosecuted and punished if you follow that order and commit a crime. You absolutely do not "wait until later." You refuse that order right then, right there, or pay the price later for following it.

Seriously, you can't tell the difference between saluting the office and saluting the man? It does have a touch of subtlety, I grant you. Were you an Aggie by any chance? :-)