Google Pulls Access To Unsupported But Popular Weather API

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Google Pulls Access To Unsupported But Popular Weather API

Posted by Unknown on Monday September 3, 2012 @12:47PM from the we-did-it-because-we-love-you dept.

New submitter drsmack1 writes with news of some bummed out programmers losing access to an undocumented Google API. From the article: "The curious popularity of the Google Weather API appears to be coming to a close. The search giant never officially supported the feature, but developers have used the unofficial feed available from the iGoogle homepage. With iGoogle now set for deprecation in November, developers are reporting that the once simple weather API is no longer returning data." Seems like the sort of thing you could replace with a tiny bit of XSLT.

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Any alternative? by Taco+Cowboy · 2012-09-03 12:54 · Score: 1

Any suggestion?
Thanks in advance !

--
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
1. Re:Any alternative? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 12:58 · Score: 1
  
  Sure, look it up on Google Code Search.
2. Re:Any alternative? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 13:04 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Sure: http://www.wunderground.com/weather/api/
3. Re:Any alternative? by cynyr · 2012-09-03 13:41 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=44.89640&lon=-93.61164939999998&unit=0&lg=english&FcstType=dwml an XML link as an example.
  You can get it as KML as well whatever that is.
  
  --
  All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
4. Re:Any alternative? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 13:41 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Beliving in global warming doesn't automatically make you a "fanatic." Stop being an asshole.
5. Re:Any alternative? by Areyoukiddingme · 2012-09-03 13:46 · Score: 1
  
  Now I just need somebody to patch the Weather Globe Google Gadget to use the direct NOAA feeds instead of the now-nuked iGoogle feed. Google had no problem using their own undocumented API. And of course the gadget is also unsupported now that Google Desktop has been killed, but you can pry my Google Desktop from my cold dead circuits.
  I could patch it myself, but this is not a good time. At all.
6. Re:Any alternative? by betterprimate · 2012-09-03 14:18 · Score: 2
  
  Another alternative: http://developer.yahoo.com/weather/
7. Re:Any alternative? by jmauro · 2012-09-03 14:43 · Score: 1
  
  Be warned though. Since Yahoo's weather products have been taken over by the Weather Channel this API has had a number of errors like having dead internal links and missing data.
8. Re:Any alternative? by interkin3tic · 2012-09-03 14:59 · Score: 2
  
  If you can trust the global warming fanatic that runs weather underground.
  Hmm... Seems you are right:
  
  "Temperature right now: 75 degrees. Forecast for tomorrow: 500 DEGREES! Wear a life vest, because the ice caps are gonna melt! Timber wolves are going to be hunting you because of atmospheric flash freezing! WATCH DAY AFTER TOMORROW SHEEPLE!!!! "
  
  How much trust do you need to put into the weather forecast? If it's off by a few degrees, well, it's not rocket science anyway.
9. Re:Any alternative? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 15:53 · Score: 1
  
  Google Desktop gadgets are simply packaged as zip files. Unzip the weather globe gadget package, update the code in the .js files, repackage, and run it. I'm not sure where the gadget package files are stored, but they must be on the drive somewhere.
10. Re:Any alternative? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 16:10 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Are you saying that the weather data supplied from thousands of user across the world to Weather Underground is suspect because the whomever runs the site accepts the science behind anthropogenic climate change? How does that NOT make you the fanatic?
11. Re:Any alternative? by _Shad0w_ · 2012-09-03 16:26 · Score: 1
  
  The Met Office (UK's erm, met office) has an API available, it's very UK-centric though.
  
  --
  Yeah, I had a sig once; I got bored of it.
12. Re:Any alternative? by afidel · 2012-09-03 16:50 · Score: 1
  
  Does the NOAA feed support worldwide forecasts or only US ones? I know my weather gadget broke last week and the developer said he'd fix it when he returned from holiday so I expect he's europen and hence would want a worldwide feed source.
  
  --
  There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
13. Re:Any alternative? by Randle_Revar · 2012-09-03 18:08 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Well, global warming is real, and we are fucked already, it is just a matter of how fucked we want to be, just somewhat, or really hard. Given how much is happening even in countries not as backwards as the US, I guess we want to be really fucked.
  
  --
  Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
14. Re:Any alternative? by TyFoN · 2012-09-03 23:59 · Score: 1
  
  yr.no delivers world wide free weather data in xml and grib format. Enjoy :)
15. Re:Any alternative? by kelemvor4 · 2012-09-04 00:01 · Score: 1
  
  If you can trust the global warming fanatic that runs weather underground. I thought the name was a joke till I saw a blog post by him that showed he is not wholly a scientist but a true believer.
  weather channel hasn't yet got it's shit together after being run by a bunch of frightwing religious assholes. Yea the assholes are gone but not enough of what is left has been bled white enough to make their stockholders decapitate them and fix things. They are trying but fuck are they slow. accuweather tried to get their bought stooge senate whore to block access to publicly funded weather data to all but 'authorized weather professionals'
  A better source is NOAA you paid for it and they are very friendly to the foss community. They have a LOT of ways to access the data.
  This just in: Extensive studies have been performed by climate scientists and they have proven conclusively that you are an asshole.
16. Re:Any alternative? by History's+Coming+To · 2012-09-04 00:12 · Score: 2
  
  METAR data from airports is one possibility. I use it to style a website so the background changes to match the weather, with a thermometer and windmeter showing the respective info, clouds in the background and so on. It requires a fair bit of regex work, but it's usable. Resolution of one hour.
  
  --
  Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
17. Re:Any alternative? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-04 01:10 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Lets say for the sake of argument it is real. People seem to think that driving a little less, getting 100mpg, slapping a bumper sticker on their car, and yelling at people on websites is going to help.
  Largest decrease in co2 emissions in 30 years happened last year. Nearly 20% (putting the US back at 1990s levels). Know what happened? We are switching wholesale over to natural gas. Its spot price on the market went bellow coal. That and the upcoming regulations on mercury emissions made it a no brainier for our power companies to switch over.
  If you think for one second though that china and large swaths of the '3rd world' are going to do the same thing you are dreaming. They are just getting started. They are busy getting themselves un-dependent on the rest of the world to live.
  People think what they do helps (and yes every bit counts). But what you do is so minor and insignificant compared to the real polluters out there. Did you know most semi-trucks are exempt from any sort of mpg rules? Why? They last 15-20 years they cost 250k+ and have that exception written into law. Same with most coal fired plants. Look at the exceptions in the law and you will see who really is the polluter.
18. Re:Any alternative? by jmauro · 2012-09-04 01:29 · Score: 1
  
  The grandparent link indicated that the Yahoo Weather API is a possible alternative to the NWS. I was commenting on how the API has changed since Yahoo changed weather providers to The Weather Channel. Which is yes not NWS, but is still providing the weather backend to Yahoo at this time.
19. Re:Any alternative? by FitForTheSun · 2012-09-04 01:53 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I can explain what happened.
  I work for Weather Central in Madison, Wisconsin. In December we were purchased by the famously rich Rothschilds of Europe and they brought in a charismatic new superstar CEO. Seven months later, they cashed out to the tune of +$15 million, selling to our historical nemesis and competitor, Weather Services International.
  WSI is owned by The Weather Channel Companies, which is an umbrella company for The Weather Channel (duh) as well as Weather Underground, which they recently bought. (TWCC is owned by NBC Universal, which is owned by Bain Capital and Blackstone Group. That means I now work for Mitt Romney.)
  This consolidation is complete. Over 90% of the worldwide weather services business is now owned by TWCC, which used that considerable power to negotiate a contract with Google. The contract stipulates that TWCC (and their sub-companies) will provide data to Google, and in turn Google would eliminate its weather API, because TWCC has its own weather APIs (more than one of them now, in fact). The API at my company is cleverly named DataCloud: http://datacloud.wxc.com/?vs=0.9.
  This consolidation is definitely good for TWCC, which will never again have to worry about competing in the marketplace. The monopoly will last until a disruptive technology displaces it in a couple decades, if it's anything like other stale monopolies. Unfortunately, it is definitely bad for the other 7.01 billion people on the planet, who now only have one source for weather data.
20. Re:Any alternative? by FitForTheSun · 2012-09-04 02:00 · Score: 1
  
  Oh okay. Well nobody says that so I guess we can agree there are no fanatics.
21. Re:Any alternative? by bobbutts · 2012-09-04 02:46 · Score: 1
  
  The rom I'm using on my Nexus 7 (Glazed Jelly Bean) is using yahoo! by default.
22. Re:Any alternative? by pixelpusher220 · 2012-09-04 03:26 · Score: 1
  
  the growing belt to expand northward
  It can't. It doesn't have the soil to do so without massive fertilizer injections, which are bad for the environment.
  
  'We' may be able to adapt, but without plants and animals to support us we're pretty well screwed. Just look at the bee colony collapses, now scale up to global and you've got a serious food problem on your hands.
  
  --
  People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
23. Re:Any alternative? by pixelpusher220 · 2012-09-04 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  So you're argument is that its 'hard'?
  
  Funny thing, I thought America LEAD the world. Or at least we used too. Time to start pushing the private sector to create the solutions we're going to need.
  
  And that takes 'regulation' to force change ahead of where it would naturally happen.
  
  --
  People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
24. Re:Any alternative? by MattBD · 2012-09-04 06:23 · Score: 1
  
  http://developer.yahoo.com/weather/
25. Re:Any alternative? by datavirtue · 2012-09-04 07:34 · Score: 1
  
  Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction:
  Yeah, believing in anything makes you an asshole.
  
  --
  I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
26. Re:Any alternative? by datavirtue · 2012-09-04 07:36 · Score: 1
  
  Fucked is everyone when Yellowstone pops.
  
  --
  I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
27. Re:Any alternative? by datavirtue · 2012-09-04 07:38 · Score: 1
  
  Yellowstone is steaming, it's overdue. [Puts on some dubstep.]
  
  --
  I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
28. Re:Any alternative? by operagost · 2012-09-04 08:07 · Score: 1
  
  I hope you're joking about the Mitt Romney thing. He hasn't been with Bain in many years-- the exact number depends on who you ask.
  
  --
  
  Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
29. Re:Any alternative? by pixelpusher220 · 2012-09-04 09:48 · Score: 1
  
  You can jump from 'regulation' to 'fascism' if you want but it shows your true self.
  
  The 'smirking reference' is that Romney and the GOP have this crazy vision that the free market will fix everything. It won't, period.
  
  The 'market' is not concerned with 20 years down the road. It is concerned with right now and only the barest of slivers of the future. BIG projects take the government to push because you need them done before it would be economical to do them.
  
  Take the interstate highway system in the US. Built by the government. Take the internet...insert Gore joke here...but built by the government and extended amazingly by many parties, but the impetus was government at its core.
  
  Climate change is bigger than any of those things and will require the government to push the private sector to do what it does best, innovate. But without the initially artificial need to create solutions driven by regulation, the market won't do that until much much later.
  
  At which point it will cost MUCH more to solve than if we started now.
  
  --
  People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
30. Re:Any alternative? by cheater512 · 2012-09-04 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  Google 'global warming religion'. You'll be scared.
31. Re:Any alternative? by Randle_Revar · 2012-09-04 14:15 · Score: 1
  
  >People seem to think that driving a little less, getting 100mpg, slapping a bumper sticker on their car, and yelling at people on websites is going to help.
  Some people might think that, I do not. Which is why I think we are really fucked, not just kinda fucked.
  
  --
  Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
32. Re:Any alternative? by Randle_Revar · 2012-09-04 14:16 · Score: 1
  
  Good thing I don't do that then, isn't it?
  
  --
  Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
33. Re:Any alternative? by Randle_Revar · 2012-09-04 14:17 · Score: 1
  
  [Puts on some dubstep.]
  Cool!
  
  --
  Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
34. Re:Any alternative? by FitForTheSun · 2012-09-05 00:56 · Score: 1
  
  It is sort of a joke, sort of not. I know he isn't CEO anymore but I always assumed he still had a large, probably majority stake in Bain. Is that not the case?
35. Re:Any alternative? by dansinteractive · 2012-09-05 08:44 · Score: 1
  
  When I learned that the Google API could be pulled at any time I found the Yahoo weather API to be a solid alternative (http://dansinteractive.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/finding-weather-with-yql-and-yahoo-api.html). Who wants to build an app that relies on something that might get pulled at any moment. But it is a pity, Google's API was so much simpler to use.
36. Re:Any alternative? by nobodie · 2012-09-06 12:36 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry folks but the notice google sent to me was that they were ending support in November of 2013. And my weather stuff still works on iGoogle. What exactly is the fuss?
  
  --
  Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
37. Re:Any alternative? by Areyoukiddingme · 2012-09-06 15:54 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, I know all of those things. "Update the code in the .js" is likely to be nontrivial. I'd prefer to use the NOAA data directly, but the chances of it being available using an API identical to Google's is nil. So it's not just a matter of changing a URL. There's some data manipulation to be done.
  And open source is great, but damnit, I'm BUSY.
38. Re:Any alternative? by dywolf · 2012-09-07 03:39 · Score: 2
  
  It doesnt have the soil? Massize fertilizer injections? Do you realize you dont know what you're talking about?
  Canada already has vast amounts of farmland, but with a typically shorter/earlier growing season than what you see compared to farms in the US, particuarly in Kansas/Oklahoma and further south. That's one reason the US has such a high output, is we're situated so perfectly situated. Its not like you go BAM permafrost no growth! There's plenty of rich soil to be used all across canada, or other northern climes, that simply isnt very productive because the season is too short. With a longer season, those "unviable" areas (due to season, not soil) become viable cropland, and other areas that already grow crops benefit from the longer season as well, boosting output.
  You, the guy who said we're fucked, and the moron that downmodded my original post, all don't know a damn thing about farming, soil, and possibly even biology. Its not farmland farmland farmland PERMAFROST! Besides which, just being permafrost doesn't mean the soil is bad; it's just frozen. The are millions of acres of soil that is just fine for agriculture, but just can't be effectively used because of climate. As the temperate zone shifts, the prime growing areas will too. But there's nothing wrong with the soil itself. (and fertilizer isnt bad in itself, excessive amounts or uncontrolled/unfiltered runoff is)
  Damn non farming idiots.
  
  --
  The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
39. Re:Any alternative? by dywolf · 2012-09-07 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  Rofl. -1 from some doom and gloom moron.
  
  --
  The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
40. Re:Any alternative? by pixelpusher220 · 2012-09-07 04:33 · Score: 1
  
  My understanding is that permafrost is generally considered to be poor soil in quality. Do you have sources to show that it is as good as, say, Kansas soil?
  
  As for benefiting from longer growing seasons...ask Texas how that's working. Record fires aren't exactly helping farmers at least in the short term. But hey, at least they'll be more frequent!
  
  Even if we go with your supposition that farming on melted permafrost is great, it won't support heavy machinery, it's basically a bog. (hence why the Alaskan pipelines contain systems to keep the ground frozen during summers) So industrial scale farming can't work. So much for replacing the breadbasket with the northern 40.
  
  Assuming that a newly created ecosystem will be as good as a 'perfectly situated' existing system? That's lunacy. And lets not talk about having to relocate people, machinery and livestock to 'another country'...
  
  --
  People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
XSLT predicts the weather! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 13:00 · Score: 4, Funny

Why didn't I think of that!
1. Re:XSLT predicts the weather! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 14:23 · Score: 1
  
  XSLT....is there anything it can't do?
I wish Google would have warned us... by puterguy · 2012-09-03 13:04 · Score: 2, Interesting

Even though the API was admittedly unsupported it was a core part of iGoogle and was used by many people as part of embedded scripts. While Google has admirably given a nice long notice for terminating iGoogle, it would have been nice had Google given at least a wee bit of warning of its abrupt termination of the weather API. Even its termination was not clear since the returned error page was an old page dated 2009 that seemed to imply that the user had done something wrong. It wasn't until I saw others encountering the same problem that I realized the problem was not on my mind, resulting in a fair bit of wasted debugging and head scratching on my end.
Is it asking too much of a company whose motto is "Don't be evil" to have given a week or two of warning or at least to have spent a minute or two setting up a meaningful and informative error page? Come on Google, you can do better...
1. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by Zapotek · 2012-09-03 13:16 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Going the extra mile and notifying the users would have undoubtedly made a good impression but this situation resembles someone grepping a website for QOTDs and then complaining that his regexp no longer works because the site's HTML code changed or the quotes were removed altogether. Bottom line is, tough luck. When something is not supported then it's not supported, how much clearer can you get?
2. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by exomondo · 2012-09-03 13:34 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Is it asking too much of a company whose motto is "Don't be evil" to have given a week or two of warning or at least to have spent a minute or two setting up a meaningful and informative error page? Come on Google, you can do better...
  And if it were a supported API it would have that, but it's pretty clearly not a supported API.
3. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by interval1066 · 2012-09-03 13:44 · Score: 1
  
  my iGoogle page has been my default homepage for at least 8 years, now... sh*t.
  
  --
  Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
4. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by interkin3tic · 2012-09-03 15:02 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I've seen some ridiculous suggestions that Google has ignored it's motto, but this is the most ridiculous one I can remember at the moment.
5. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by viperidaenz · 2012-09-03 15:36 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  that seemed to imply that the user had done something wrong
  You did do something wrong. You used an unsupported API.
6. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by Chewbacon · 2012-09-03 16:07 · Score: 1
  
  This kind of data got really expensive recently. I was working on a browser plugin for weather forecasting and the rug got pulled out from under me when all the providers started charging a hefty chunk of change for access to their feeds. I'm not sure where google gets their data, but I'm sure it's from one of these guys.
  
  --
  Chewbacon
  The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
7. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by flyingfsck · 2012-09-03 17:18 · Score: 2
  
  Use the government services. They are free and are where the pay services get their data from, e.g. NOAA or MET - every country has one and you as a tax payer, already pay for it.
  
  --
  Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
8. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by gl4ss · 2012-09-03 18:41 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  that seemed to imply that the user had done something wrong
  You did do something wrong. You used an unsupported API.
  no.. the wrong thing was to use a google api in the first place. it's totally random how they shut things down or roll them up - unsupported or not, this particular api had a pretty good run.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
9. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by progician · 2012-09-03 21:36 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  And don't you think that the whole "self-entitlement" thing is getting overused?
  You see, things that are free are still things that people do use and therefore it is an issue if the service is gone. If the gmail would be gone tomorrow for good without any warning, would you still repeat the same mantra? It is for free after all... except that a good portion of the business world relies on it beyond the personal "freerider" usage. Just because one runs a free service doesn't mean that one isn't responsible for the service.
10. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by Threni · 2012-09-04 00:00 · Score: 2
  
  > no.. the wrong thing was to use a google api in the first place
  No, the problem was it was unsupported.
  >. it's totally random how they shut things down or roll them up - unsupported or not, this particular api had a pretty good run.
  It's unsupported. You can't just complain about it after the fact.
11. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by hobarrera · 2012-09-04 01:24 · Score: 1
  
  Why? It was an undocumented API that people used, but they had never published it? This isn't a change in an external interface, but rather a change in an internal interface that people just felt they could access. They can't inform people of every page they change if they didn't document it for people to use in the first place.
12. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-04 04:45 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, your default homepage for over 8 years has been one that only existed for 7 1/2 years? May 2005 + 8 years = May 2013, not "some time before September 2012"
  I don't think that single year makes much of a change to his point to be honest.
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
13. Re:I wish Google would have warned us... by viperidaenz · 2012-09-04 10:23 · Score: 1
  
  They get deprecated, and you get a few years notice. Nothing lasts forever, but if you pick something unsupported, you will be left up shit creek when it gets shut down unannounced. Support gives you certainty and the ability to plan.
XSLT as a substitute for google's API by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 13:08 · Score: 3, Funny

Reminds me of the punchline of the Steve Martin joke "How to become a millionaire and not pay taxes":
First, make a million dollars. Then, tell the IRS you forgot.
Re:What is the point? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 13:18 · Score: 3, Informative

Which part of "unsupported" did you not get?
Usupported interfaces? by drolli · 2012-09-03 13:22 · Score: 3, Interesting

why would anybody use these?
1. Re:Usupported interfaces? by siddesu · 2012-09-03 15:11 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Because somebody could not be bothered to read the interface definitions, or they were unavailable, or too hard/cumbersome to work with at the time, etc. Do you always write your throwaway scripts to an official, certified specification, never taking a shortcut? Have you never been in a situation where a throwaway script becomes a perpetual part of a system?
  Besides, what is the guarantee that if you code to the exact specs, things will work any better, or that the other free service will be any more reliable or long-lived?
2. Re:Usupported interfaces? by geminidomino · 2012-09-04 03:00 · Score: 1
  
  If it's a "throwaway" script, you have a point. But I don't expect to keep them viable for more than in the very short term (thus the qualifier "throwaway").
  If all the bitching is about "throwaway" scripts, then they're even more disconnected from reality than they seemed at first blush.
3. Re:Usupported interfaces? by darkmeridian · 2012-09-04 03:19 · Score: 1
  
  If I decided to write a throwaway script based on a non-official API, then I would not complaint too much about the API being deprecated and removed. If Google had pushed this as an officially-supported API, then stopped supporting it, then you could complain. Otherwise, it is just baseless.
  
  --
  A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
4. Re:Usupported interfaces? by drolli · 2012-09-04 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  Yes. i have coded against other things than documented apis. However when i did so i made sure i have a plan b and isolated these parts very strongly in the code (usually creating a layer of abstraction i want to see).
  I also only do so as a desperate last-resort measure. Not because i can get some service without thinking or paying. And i only do so on products which have a history of being workaround-friendly.
  so after all, in the last 10 years i guess it maybe happened three or four times i used something undocumented (typically in matlab). And i have the policy that any software environment or interface around for less than 5 years is not worth considering for productive use. Unless it is justified by the yield/effort ratio.
Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by ducomputergeek · 2012-09-03 13:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

And then complaining when said API disappears? For the US at least NOAA offers a pretty nice REST/XML API that's free and even comes with icons you can link to if building a webpage or app.

--
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
1. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by fm6 · 2012-09-03 14:21 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Well, yeah, there are plenty of alternatives. Just now I went to my igoogle page to see if the weather widget was still working. It was — because I use the NOAA widget, not Google's own widget.
  But you know, my igoogle page is going away in about a year. I can certainly live without it (I don't really need to a weather report and the Wikipedia Picture of the Day every time I open a browser tab, and now my daily agenda is also on my phone) but it's part of a trend that I'm really getting tired of. They invent some clever new application, then they get bored with it and pull it. They publish an intriguing new API, then they get bored with it and shut it off. The acquire some interesting new company, get bored with it and shut it down. And so on, over and over. Once or twice is a minor nuisance, but they do it constantly.
  Even when they stick with an application for the long haul, they take forever to get it out of beta mode, they tend to skimp on the boring little details that make for mature software (I mean you, Postini! And you Android Emulator!), and they never get round to providing proper documentation or tech support.
  I've said it before: I love Google for their creativity and their striving to create lots of cool products. But I wish to fuck they'd grow up already.
2. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by cawpin · 2012-09-03 15:06 · Score: 1
  
  Well, yeah, there are plenty of alternatives. Just now I went to my igoogle page to see if the weather widget was still working. It was — because I use the NOAA widget, not Google's own widget.
  Google's widget is still working just fine for me.
3. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by interkin3tic · 2012-09-03 15:10 · Score: 1
  
  Honest question: how much would it cost them to keep it running? Is this a case of "All these interns driving out across the US and reading thermometers and phoning them in is costing a boatload of money in terms of gas, and we never put ads in it so we're not making anything" or is it more "That server is running the weather service, but we could put a foosball table there..."
4. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by fm6 · 2012-09-03 15:45 · Score: 2
  
  I very much doubt that money is an issue. Google is absurdly profitable, gets more profitable year by year, and their ownership is structured so that they don't have to account for the way the spend their money.
  But if they maintain a product, somebody has to be responsible for it. If nobody wants to spend the time to keep the product alive then the product dies. And that happens a lot at google, because the only criterion for holding down a job there is being very smart and creative. You get kudos for inventing a clever new API, but your job doesn't depend on your doing the boring work needed to keep the API alive.
5. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by viperidaenz · 2012-09-03 15:57 · Score: 1
  
  Honest answer: Your question is irrelevant. If they never, ever stated they would continue to provide a service, you should never, ever expect to be continually provided. Especially when they only reason for its existence is to support a product that has already been discontinued.
6. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by Nemyst · 2012-09-03 17:47 · Score: 1
  
  Oh they've grown up alright. In their early days, they tended to do a lot of nifty things and leave them up. It's only fairly recently that they started pruning systems, APIs and services. Why? Because they don't give them a return on their investment.
  I like Google, but I realize that they're in there for the money, just like every other corporation out there. If a service is only draining cash, it's not worth keeping up from a business standpoint. iGoogle's nice for its users, but it was isolated from the rest of the Google ecosystem (the widget system isn't really used anywhere else, it doesn't work with Google+, etc.) and didn't pull ad revenue. You could find similar reasoning for most products Google killed. Those that are still around are the successful, profit-making ones.
  I'll still miss iGoogle because I like having a single page that shows my agenda, my RSS reader and my emails, but I can understand why it's being retired.
7. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by fm6 · 2012-09-03 19:21 · Score: 1
  
  Why? Because they don't give them a return on their investment.
  As I understand it, few Google businesses make much money. All the ones that are profitable are the ones where they've managed to stick in those minimalistic context-sensitive ads they're famous for. Those are extremely profitable, and subsidize the rest of the company.
  Anything that resembles traditional services businesses is a disaster. Their spam-filtering business is almost nonfunctional. (I speak from personal experience.) Their cloud application initiative is pretty much stalled. Their code hosting services are pretty poor, and can't possibly be a profit center in any case. And so on,
  
  If a service is only draining cash, it's not worth keeping up from a business standpoint.
  That's just a little simplistic. Yes, products disappear quickly when they're generating more losses than a company wants to sustain. But when an unprofitable product has potential to help the company grab market share, provide synergy with other products, and eventually develop into a profit center itself, it makes sense to bear the loss — if the company can afford it. And Google most definitely doesn't have cash flow issues.
  
  iGoogle's nice for its users, but it was isolated from the rest of the Google ecosystem (the widget system isn't really used anywhere else, it doesn't work with Google+, etc.)
  OK, that's a really good point, and one that should have occurred to me. Ecosystems are important. And it especially matters that Google+ is what Google wants us to hear about these days. iGoogle dates back to everybody had to have a portal; Google+ represents the current belief in social media. And as you say, the two don't go together.
  Some of the emphasis on Google+ is not to my liking. My Google Profile used to have a simple, easy-to-remember URL (google.com/profiles/isaac32767, I think). But profiles with names don't work with Google+, so now my profile is at google.com/profiles/111202763901896476985 . Lame. Fortunately, I managed to grab bit.ly/isaacplus.
  
  and didn't pull ad revenue
  Nor does Google+. At least, I don't see any ads when I go there. It's clearly a long-term project. See above re unprofitable products with potential.
8. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by bickerdyke · 2012-09-03 20:56 · Score: 2
  
  I think it's more along the lines of: Hey, remember the weather data feed we subscribed to so we could show the weather on iGoogle? I don't think we need to pay for that subscription anymore after we've shut dow iGoogle.
  
  --
  bickerdyke
9. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by bickerdyke · 2012-09-03 21:06 · Score: 2
  
  IIRC the gadget markup for Google+ hangout apps is identical to the iGoogle gadgets markup. (Only includes other APIs)
  
  --
  bickerdyke
10. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by lexman098 · 2012-09-04 01:17 · Score: 1
  
  The acquire some interesting new company, get bored with it and shut it down. And so on, over and over. Once or twice is a minor nuisance, but they do it constantly.
  Seriously, see Meebo. I hate them for buying Meebo. The least they could do was keep it running for a while till they figure out what they want to do with it (unless the plan was just to shut it down).
11. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by fm6 · 2012-09-04 04:52 · Score: 1
  
  That's a different category from what I was talking about, but yeah, that's pretty lame. This is where they buy some company because they think they can integrate the companies products into their own plans. But often their plans are very poorly thought out,
  The one that really bugs me is Jotspot. This was a sort of business wiki that they bought and shut down. It reappeared 16 months later as Google Sites. My issue here is not so much that Jotspot went away (I never used it) but that Google Sites is such a gawdawful application. (I briefly worked on a job where I had to use Google Sites to maintain web-based technical documentation It was painful.) So, they spent millions of bucks to buy an advanced wiki platform, spent a long time fiddling with it, and all they have to show for it is a poorly implemented, feature-limited CMS. Lame.
  Now that I think of it, this is the same as what I was talking about before. Somebody at Google has a brilliant idea for acquiring and repurposing a company, but (as always) there's no follow-through. Obviously they got bored and moved on to something else. I imagine the same thing is now happening to Meebo.
12. Re:Wait, you're using an unsupported API... by fm6 · 2012-09-04 05:34 · Score: 1
  
  Huh. So they could fold iGoogle into Google+ i they wanted to. But iGoogle is just so 90s.
Re:What is the point? by bws111 · 2012-09-03 13:29 · Score: 2

Yeah, Google holds the patents (and copyrights!) on weather forecasting.
2013 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 13:33 · Score: 5, Informative

With iGoogle now set for deprecation in November
That's November 2013.
Re:What is the point? by exomondo · 2012-09-03 13:36 · Score: 1

If they hold a copyright/patent on it, then they should be compelled to license it to keep that copyright protection, or it should released into the public domain.
And do they in this case? No. So what's your point?
Re:What is the point? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 13:55 · Score: 1

Since other people were using it and they didn't block other people from using it, an easement was created. They are now legally obligated to continue providing their weather API.
I wasn't affected, but I am a lawyer. If you were affected, contact me as I am looking into a class action lawsuit.
Re:What is the point? by webnut77 · 2012-09-03 13:58 · Score: 1

I sure hope everybody is backing up the crap they keep in 'the cloud'.
So that would be, er.. , ah.. , iCrap?
Re:What is the point? by exomondo · 2012-09-03 14:13 · Score: 2

Well goody for them...
Why?

My point remains, don't look to Google for long term anything.
The more pertinent point would be 'don't use unsupported APIs regardless of who provides them'.
Re:What is the point? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 14:21 · Score: 1

I'm not sure an API will fall under the umbrella of "real property".
Consider this. You project the image of a clock onto the front of your house. You don't block other people from using it. Are you then legally obligated to keep it going?
Re:What is the point? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 14:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

Which part of silently dropping undocumented and unsupported service is "being evil"? Now if the motto was "Be nice" that'd be something to expect and it would be on par with "Dear trespassers! Please note that you will have to find another shortcut as I'm fixing this hole in the fence next week. I apologize for inconvenience".
There's difference between deprecated andundocumented.
Re:XSLT? by MichaelSmith · 2012-09-03 15:01 · Score: 1

XML style sheets. Its a way of converting data in XML to some other sort of document.

--
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Re:What is the point? by viperidaenz · 2012-09-03 15:47 · Score: 2

My point remains, don't look to Google for long term anything.
Don't look to any service with no service level agreement for long term anything. If you absolutely must have long term support, don't use anything from anyone that doesn't explicitly offer long term support.
Re:What is the point? by viperidaenz · 2012-09-03 15:53 · Score: 1

As soon as real estate law is redefined to include internet services, I'll hire you. Until then, easements do not cover the internet.
2 problems by bobs666 · 2012-09-03 17:23 · Score: 1

If its free is it a product?

I do not know what growing up has to do with it?

Google gives away a lot of stuff fro free. ok, so Richard Stall man might not call it free, but we do not pay for lots of Google stuff. But a lot of other corporations are attacking Google so It seems to me to pull back to basics is a reasonable respounce, BTW you can get the weather data from other sources.
1. Re:2 problems by mwvdlee · 2012-09-03 18:36 · Score: 1
  
  Part of growing up is learning that sometimes things you're responsible for take priority over things you want to do.
  In this particular case, Google has never taken responsibility for supporting the API. What does that mean if they want to cancel it?
  
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  Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
2. Re:2 problems by mwvdlee · 2012-09-03 20:09 · Score: 1
  
  Well, agreed on that.
  Their policy seems to be to just throw anything they can imagine on their site and see what sticks.
  Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, but apparently it works.
  
  --
  Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
3. Re:2 problems by fm6 · 2012-09-04 05:38 · Score: 1
  
  It works for them. Frustrating for users if they depend on a Google product and it goes away or never matures.
Lies! by tweir · 2012-09-03 17:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

There is no such thing as "a tiny bit of XSLT".
1. Re:Lies! by mapkinase · 2012-09-04 07:03 · Score: 1
  
  I think that was a joke by the submitter.
  
  --
  I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again... by Robert+Zenz · 2012-09-03 18:59 · Score: 2

This is why Google+ failed.
Oh dear...can I live in your world, too? In mine we need to wait until a service closes it's doors to tell if it failed or not...on a more serious note, why do you consider a service with 250M accounts (150M of them active) as failed?
Microsoft use of this API exposed? by Gumbercules!! · 2012-09-03 19:43 · Score: 1, Interesting

This would explain why every Windows 7 and yes, Windows 8 PC in this office, in Perth Western Australia, suddenly thinks it's snowing outside. It has *never* snowed in Perth. Like... never ever. It's actually about 20oC outside right now.

Does this mean Microsoft's desktop weather widgets for 7 and the weather charm for 8 have been using Google for their information??!? Come on, what is this? Bing (http://googleblog.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/microsofts-bing-uses-google-search.html)?
1. Re:Microsoft use of this API exposed? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 22:48 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Do you even try to research things on your own or just like to make up shit wearing that tin foil?
  The desktop weather gadget uses msn services:
  http://weather.service.msn.com/find.aspx?outputview=search&src=Windows7&weasearchstr=90210&weadegreetype=F&culture=en-US
  Easily verified by watching traffic and changing your zip code
2. Re:Microsoft use of this API exposed? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 23:16 · Score: 1
  
  There has been snow in the Perth Hills in 1956, does that count?
3. Re:Microsoft use of this API exposed? by Gumbercules!! · 2012-09-04 03:34 · Score: 1
  
  And who do they use?
4. Re:Microsoft use of this API exposed? by Gumbercules!! · 2012-09-04 03:35 · Score: 1
  
  No, higher altitude locations that aren't really part of Perth don't count. :-P
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-03 20:13 · Score: 1

For the same reasons he considers all MMO's with less subscribers than WoW a failure I suspect, big numbers impress some people.
Why isn't there a supported API? by QuasiSteve · 2012-09-03 21:21 · Score: 1

I think the question is, or should be, why isn't there a supported API?
Given the plethora of weather apps, widgets, etc. that are highly popular on Android (and iOS, for that matter, but widgets.. Android), it seems to be like offering a weather API with cached results (similar to the location API) so that each and every app isn't requesting its own data from its own datasources, sucking up resources and running up data bills for some users would be a good thing.
Hell - let some enterprising App developer get on that. I'd guess the Intents bits could be of some use there. Plenty of developers cooperate on other fronts - why not weather?
1. Re:Why isn't there a supported API? by exomondo · 2012-09-04 10:47 · Score: 1
  
  I think the question is, or should be, why isn't there a supported API?
  What are you on about? Here's a list of 5 weather APIs.
2. Re:Why isn't there a supported API? by QuasiSteve · 2012-09-05 02:32 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, I should have made it more clear in my post that I meant that Google should offer the API as a part of Android (similar to the location API).
  I know there's plenty of other weather APIs available, and most of the better weather apps do let you choose. But given the popularity of weather apps (full apps, widgets, notification services, etc.) I think it would make sense for an API to be available within Android itself. This can then poll and cache results so that apps X, Y and Z can all grab the exact same information without actually submitting 3 separate queries (which sometimes results in app X saying it's cloudy while app Y says it's clear skies depending on when the online service last updated their data).
3. Re:Why isn't there a supported API? by exomondo · 2012-09-05 10:26 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, I should have made it more clear in my post that I meant that Google should offer the API as a part of Android (similar to the location API).
  Well in terms of location there's no 2 ways about it, your location is your location...as for weather forecasts they vary based on the source of the information and the way it is interpreted.
  
  I know there's plenty of other weather APIs available, and most of the better weather apps do let you choose.
  And that's really the best way, let you choose your source.
  
  But given the popularity of weather apps (full apps, widgets, notification services, etc.) I think it would make sense for an API to be available within Android itself. This can then poll and cache results so that apps X, Y and Z can all grab the exact same information without actually submitting 3 separate queries (which sometimes results in app X saying it's cloudy while app Y says it's clear skies depending on when the online service last updated their data).
  So what happens to being able to choose your source? Caching that data would only have any benefit if you had a bunch of different weather apps showing the same data, which is pointless.
4. Re:Why isn't there a supported API? by QuasiSteve · 2012-09-05 11:27 · Score: 1
  
  So what happens to being able to choose your source?
  Those currently offering would, hopefully, continue to offer it.
  Those currently not offering it would, hopefully, consider offering it.
  But if for any reason whatsoever the chosen data source disappears, there would still be the built-in API to fall back to.
  ( Of course if you're going to give the user a choice between 5 data sources anyway, any of the other 4 could be a fallback. )
  
  Caching that data would only have any benefit if you had a bunch of different weather apps showing the same data, which is pointless.
  While pointless, this does happen. There will be people who have a clock+weather widget on their main screen. On another screen a news widget that, when tapped, opens a new app which also has a weather tab. Then their alarm clock app? Also has a weather display. And their lock screen, in case they're not using e.g. WidgetLocker? Yup, yet another.
  Whether there is any sanity in having that many apps with weather info in the first place may be a point of contention - but it's there, might as well try to cater to it.
  ( And while you can get weather data for random locations, the most typical use is certainly for your current location. Not that there's any reason a built-in API couldn't accept location information in the data requests. )
5. Re:Why isn't there a supported API? by exomondo · 2012-09-05 13:08 · Score: 1
  
  But if for any reason whatsoever the chosen data source disappears, there would still be the built-in API to fall back to.
  And would be the source for that API's data? Why not just go directly to the API of that datasource instead like you do now? And why maintain a source for a weather API when there are already so many weather APIs provided by the datasource maintainer out there? It makes no sense. Would you do the same for all external data sources or just weather?
  
  Whether there is any sanity in having that many apps with weather info in the first place may be a point of contention - but it's there, might as well try to cater to it.
  No, you might as well leave it the way it is because it works just fine and works the same as all other external data sources.
6. Re:Why isn't there a supported API? by QuasiSteve · 2012-09-06 03:31 · Score: 1
  
  And would be the source for that API's data?
  Whatever Google would decide.
  
  Why not just go directly to the API of that datasource instead like you do now?
  Saves you having to poll the data yourself. One less permission if you're just going to show temperature, humidity, etc. like most of the weather apps.
  
  And why maintain a source for a weather API when there are already so many weather APIs provided by the datasource maintainer out there?
  I don't know. Why maintain a source for getting the current time as an API call in Android when you can tell app developers that they're on their own. After all, they can use the GPS to get the time. Or the cell network signal. Or a time server online. Or keep their app running all the time and use a timer, ask the user to set the time once and then just figure out the time based on number of ticks elapsed + the time initially set and a LUT for daylight savings for a given locale. Or maybe the cellphone supports WWVB and you can tap into that.
  
  Would you do the same for all external data sources or just weather?
  That depends on the data in question. I'm certainly not suggesting that Android polls the umpteenmillion of blogs out there and caches their results just so that2 apps that happen to poll 5 of those sites can get them from Android instead of going straight to those 5 sites.
  On the other hand, Google already saw fit to make a location API so that any app that wants to know the user's location can simply poll that and either get a cached result or have the system grab that using whatever services the user has enabled (cell towers / wifi / GPS) instead of every single app having their own settings for what to use for determining a location and then having multiple apps polling for essentially the same information multiple times.
  
  No, you might as well leave it the way it is because it works just fine and works the same as all other external data sources.
  Except that it doesn't work just fine as soon as that data source becomes unavailable, changes format, etc.
  I get it, though - you're vehemently opposed to suggesting that Google add an API. Not sure what your reasoning is other than "there's already third party data sources". I don't see the harm you're seeing in adding one, I guess.
7. Re:Why isn't there a supported API? by exomondo · 2012-09-06 10:43 · Score: 1
  
  Whatever Google would decide.
  Well that could be anything.
  
  Saves you having to poll the data yourself.
  How is it any different? You call the datasource provider API or you call the local API, no difference from the developer effort perspective, you still have to update your app data based on the result, whether that comes from the local API calling the external datasource or just calling the external datasource directly.
  
  Why maintain a source for getting the current time as an API call in Android when you can tell app developers that they're on their own.
  Because - unlike weather forecasts that differ between sources - the time is the time, if it differs between sources then it's incorrect, so comparing time to weather is obviously not relevant.
  
  After all, they can use the GPS to get the time. Or the cell network signal. Or a time server online. Or keep their app running all the time and use a timer, ask the user to set the time once and then just figure out the time based on number of ticks elapsed + the time initially set and a LUT for daylight savings for a given locale. Or maybe the cellphone supports WWVB and you can tap into that.
  And they should all give the same result, unlike weather forecasts and other weather data which depends on the sensors used by the datasource and bureau providing the data, the time is either correct or incorrect.
  
  On the other hand, Google already saw fit to make a location API so that any app that wants to know the user's location can simply poll that
  Because again, the location is either correct or incorrect, you always just want the most accurate one, which is the most accurate weather data source? which is the most accurate forecast?
  
  Except that it doesn't work just fine as soon as that data source becomes unavailable, changes format, etc.
  And that's why you use a maintained and supported API like one of the 5 i linked to earlier, like WeatherBug, Weather Channel, etc...
  
  I get it, though - you're vehemently opposed to suggesting that Google add an API. Not sure what your reasoning is other than "there's already third party data sources". I don't see the harm you're seeing in adding one, I guess.
  No, my reasoning is quite clear and logical and is the very reason such an API does not exist within android (or iOS or Windows Mobile/Phone or any Blackberry OS). Suggesting an API should be added simply as an intermediary to a totally external datasource like weather just to cache data that may or may not even be accurate is showing a fundamental misunderstanding of the reason for having built-in APIs like time and location (which utilize the inbuilt hardware of the platform) and external APIs which have nothing whatsoever to do with the inbuilt hardware.
Re:XSLT? by sjames · 2012-09-03 23:41 · Score: 2

The name, of course being derived from X, the roman numeral 10 and SLT, a grain of salt.
Re:XSLT? by MichaelSmith · 2012-09-03 23:55 · Score: 1

So I think it might have been the last XML related acronym available.

--
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again... by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-04 04:38 · Score: 1

It failed? How am I still using it then?

--
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
tiny bit of XSLT by mapkinase · 2012-09-04 06:59 · Score: 1

"tiny bit of XSLT" that's the funniest short joke of today.

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Re:What is the point? by gnapster · 2012-09-04 07:34 · Score: 1

Which is a shame. I was really looking forward to his representation!
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again... by Lord+Kano · 2012-09-04 15:46 · Score: 1

It failed? How am I still using it then?
I'm sure that both of you have a lot of fun.
I didn't say it died. I said it failed.
LK

--
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again... by Lord+Kano · 2012-09-04 15:48 · Score: 1

This is why Google+ failed.
Oh dear...can I live in your world, too? In mine we need to wait until a service closes it's doors to tell if it failed or not...on a more serious note, why do you consider a service with 250M accounts (150M of them active) as failed?
It's people like you who were buying Enron stock after the warning signs were there. Google+ is already an also-ran.
LK

--
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano