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TSA Says Screening Drinks Purchased Inside Airport Terminal Is Nothing New

First time accepted submitter lcam writes in with a story about a video that has started a new round of condemnation against the TSA over the testing of drinks. "The video, posted on YouTube on Monday and featured on NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams Tuesday night, has already garnered almost 125,000 hits and nearly 900 comments from angry travelers. It shows two TSA officers swabbing bottles of water, a carton of coconut water and a cup of coffee, among other liquids. 'Now remember that this is inside the terminal, well beyond the security check and purchased inside the terminal ... just people waiting to get on the plane,' YouTube user danno02 says in the video's description. 'My wife and son came back from a coffee shop just around the corner, then we were approached. I asked them what they were doing. One of the TSA ladies said that they were checking for explosive chemicals (as we are drinking them).' The TSA insisted Tuesday that its policy of checking liquids beyond the security gate has been in place for five years now. TSA agents will randomly patrol the gates using a test strip and dropper containing a non-toxic solution, it said."

427 comments

  1. Explosive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    What about the explosive diaerara you get from eating the junk they have in the terminal?

    1. Re:Explosive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      They test that, too.

    2. Re:Explosive by Lisias · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Always bring some Vaseline to the Airports bathroom. I was told that some TSA agents do a very rough fingerjob.

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    3. Re:Explosive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They used their fingers on you? You got lucky then.

    4. Re:Explosive by nrozema · · Score: 3, Informative

      If the TSA doesn't get you in there, Larry Craig will...

    5. Re:Explosive by Pseudonym · · Score: 4, Funny

      Always bring some Vaseline to the Airports bathroom.

      For some reason, the first thing I thought of was Larry Craig.

      Anyhoo, make sure it's no more than 3oz of Vaseline.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    6. Re:Explosive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, fist is more likely.

    7. Re:Explosive by drkim · · Score: 5, Funny

      Always bring some Vaseline to the Airports bathroom. I was told that some TSA agents do a very rough fingerjob.

      Yeah - it's not that rough. Typically the screener puts his left hand on your left shoulder, his right hand on your right shoulder, and then will very gently start to finger probe your...

      ...hey, WAIT A MINUTE!!

    8. Re:Explosive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They said the dropper of liquid was "non-toxic", they never said it wouldn't give you the raging shits.

    9. Re:Explosive by stepho-wrs · · Score: 5, Funny

      A friend of mine said he didn't mine the cavity searches but sometimes the dog's nose is cold

    10. Re:Explosive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      What surprises me is that the TSA scenario haven't been used in porn yet. (as far as I know.)

      "Would you walk this way for a ... personal screening please."

    11. Re:Explosive by drkim · · Score: 4, Funny

      What surprises me is that the TSA scenario haven't been used in porn yet. (as far as I know.)

      "Would you walk this way for a ... personal screening please."

      Let's crunch the numbers, shall we:

      Traditional pr0n:
      -House rental in Chatsworth, California
      $600/day

      -Pizza box prop
      $9.95

      TSA pr0n:
      -Airport terminal rental
      $21,000/day

      -Background extras
      $3,200/day

      -Backscatter X-ray scanner rental
      $17,000/day

      -pr0n that looks like this:
      http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0MAh0_Oa3iU/TQLtweY2OuI/AAAAAAAAE00/aomwDmV6nP0/s1600/Backscatter++8.jpg

      ---priceless!

    12. Re:Explosive by bickerdyke · · Score: 2

      Because pr0n usually is about *fantasies*?

      --
      bickerdyke
    13. Re:Explosive by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ... and then they test the next guy's coffee with the same test strip...

    14. Re:Explosive by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 3, Funny

      Really, they should trim their fingernails before coming to work

    15. Re:Explosive by ciderbrew · · Score: 2

      I've watched stuff that may have been a fantasy for some; but not me. Still watched it, cos I'm bored of "normal" stuff.

    16. Re:Explosive by Marc+Madness · · Score: 1

      mine the cavity

      I can't help but think that this was an appropriate freudian slip. Unless it was done on purpose, in which case: well played sir.

    17. Re:Explosive by arth1 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      in which case: well played sir.

      Is it just me who gets annoyed with the wrong use of "well played" so common lately? Unless there's a preceding set-up, it's not well played. If you mean it's funny, say so. Don't use trite phrases that don't even fit.

    18. Re:Explosive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      U mad, bro?

    19. Re:Explosive by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

      What surprises me is that the TSA scenario haven't been used in porn yet. (as far as I know.)

      "Would you walk this way for a ... personal screening please."

      Rule 34. It has been done, use Google.

    20. Re:Explosive by omnichad · · Score: 2

      Or that it's flavorless...

    21. Re:Explosive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What about the explosive diaerara you get from eating the junk they have in the terminal?

      Beware of terminal diarrhea!

    22. Re:Explosive by mr1911 · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you mean it's funny, say so. Don't use trite phrases that don't even fit.

      Well played, sir!

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    23. Re:Explosive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's just you.

    24. Re:Explosive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey why is that bald guy in heels?

      Captcha "afraid"

    25. Re:Explosive by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      Or sterile.

    26. Re:Explosive by dywolf · · Score: 1

      You haven't looked hard enough. there's been plenty

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    27. Re:Explosive by drkim · · Score: 1

      Best TSA pr0n line ever:
      "That's not a gun!"

    28. Re:Explosive by jseale · · Score: 1

      How old are you? First of all, you spelled DIARRHEA wrong. Second, mentioning that in the first place is so damn childish. Good grief!!

  2. So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by puterguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why not use this "technology" to resume allowing people to carry liquids >3oz in carry-ons?
    Perhaps limit the number of such bottles to save time but if they can swab drinks bought in the security zone, they can swab our drinks while we wait to be nakey-scanned...

    1. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by ExploHD · · Score: 4, Informative

      Because then the terrorist would WIN!

    2. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by cpu6502 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Get your stinkin' paws outta my Coke! You damn dirty ape!" (Say that to a black TSA agent, and you'll probably make the national news when they charge you with "hate speech".) Oh what a fun non-free country we are.

      BTW who's testing the hundreds-of-pounds of food and drink being loaded by outside convenience companies into the airplane? What a perfect way for a terrorist to land a job, get cleared, and then sneak several pounds of liquid explosive onboard.

      Excuse me while I bend over.
      The TSA say they need to check my cavity.
      Whatever it takes for safety, eh?

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    3. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by cervesaebraciator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd suggest it's because one must always add to the security theatre. They took away the >3 oz carry-ons to make you feel safe so long as they were around to take such things and afraid should they leave. Now that you're accustomed to that, they have to add a new unnecessary procedure to remind you how necessary they are. Most importantly: they must be seen doing it and therefore mere restrictions are inadequate. Alternatively, John Pistole had already been watching too many episodes of Burn Notice, when Janet Napolitano, who remembers back to an early era of television, turned him onto MacGuyver. It quickly became apparent to him just how dangerous things you can buy at a convenience store can be.

    4. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by kmahan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is big pressure to not relax the 3oz rule. From the vendors in the airports. The 3oz rule is perfect for vendors because they have a monopoly on selling you overpriced drinks.

      --
      Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
    5. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The terrorists won when the Patriot Act was passed, the DHS was created, and the SS, I mean TSA was put in place...

    6. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "There is big pressure to not relax the 3oz rule. From the vendors in the airports. The 3oz rule is perfect for vendors because they have a monopoly on selling you overpriced drinks."

      Then people are foolish. I haven't been in a major airport that hasn't had water fountains. You bring an empty water bottle through security, fill it up, and thumb your nose at the insane vendor prices. Furthermore, I bring trail mix while traveling, so if I had to I could survive for a week in an airport without having to buy any food or water.

    7. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by redmid17 · · Score: 2

      A concept shocking to no one with an IQ over 60, sometimes people enjoy drinking liquids other than water. More at 11.

    8. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could just bring a loaded gun on your carry-on luggage and have a roughly 50/50 chance of it being undetected by the monkeys reading the screens.

    9. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by gman003 · · Score: 2

      At this point, I think I'd rather have the terrorists than the TSA.

    10. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by quadrox · · Score: 0

      Not to excuse the TSA, expensive airport prices, or anything else - but if you are so dependent on soft drinks or coffee (or similar non-water drink), then you are quite pathetic in my book.

    11. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by mr1911 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At this point, I think I'd rather have the terrorists than the TSA.

      Now the terrorists have won!

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    12. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a valid point, but at least people can decide between getting free water or paying exorbitant prices for something else. Can we at least agree that it's silly to pay outrageous prices to a vendor for a bottle of water?

    13. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by MitchDev · · Score: 0

      And water is all you want, you are even more pathetic in mine. See how that works?

    14. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by quadrox · · Score: 1

      Just for the record, I did not actually mean for my post to sound as harsh or insulting as it did. I'm not sure how to better express what I was trying to say, so I will not even make an attempt now.

      That being said, I honestly don't see "how that works". Because most likely you just made that up and don't actually think that anyone not dependent on soft drinks (etc...) is pathetic.

      The alternative is even worse, you actually think like that, in which case you have a serious mental problem. No sane person will think someone who is not addicted to unhealthy food and drinks as pathetic.

      That doesn't mean I don't enjoy them once in a while, but I am in no way addicted to them as some people seem to be.

    15. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by LVSlushdat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hey, sparky.. in case you hadn't noticed, the terrorists HAVE won.. I can just see what remains of OBL's guys sitting over there in Afgan-land laughing their asses off at how those stupid ass Americans are chasing their tails.. No matter WHAT precautions TSA or ANY other three-letter-agency does, they CANNOT completely 100% PREVENT any terrorist attack.. I gar-ron-tee if you think the bozos at TSA are good at security theater now, wait till they get what their drooling for.. 100% surveillance of EVERYBODY.. EVEN with that, a determined OBL-wanna-be can easily cause big kaboom, since by definition he WANTS to die, and have sex with his 72 virgins.... So, whats next after 100% surveillance? Use your imagination.... (shudder)

      I'm FAR FAR FAR more afraid of the US goverment and its security theater than I am the remote chance of my being killed by some OBL-wanna-be... I'm quite sure I'm NOT the only one who feels this way...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    16. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just scream "TERRORIST!" at the top of your lungs and jump back and point at the TSA goon. Then yell, "HEY EVERYONE, THIS GUY'S A TERRORIST AND HE'S TRYING TO PUT EXPLOSIVES IN MY DRINK!" Then see how long it takes to get on the evening news as "the guy that caused a shitstorm for the TSA's latest heavy-handed search tactics".

      You'll spend some time in the local slammer, but your story should ALWAYS be, "I didn't know the guy and he tried to use some weird chemicals in my coffee, so naturally, I thought he was a terrorist." The TSA middle-managers' responses will be measured in backpedals per second and that will be one less liberty trampled by the TSA (for a while).

    17. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 1

      Terrorists Searching America

      --
      insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
    18. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now now. You act like the prohibition on containers larger than 3oz (but as many of those bottles as you can stuff in that one quart bag) made any sense to begin with.

    19. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by residieu · · Score: 1

      So fill yourself a big full of 3oz bottles of soda, and fill your cup with that.

    20. Re:So why can't they swab bottles 3oz by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Hey, sparky.. in case you hadn't noticed, the terrorists HAVE won.. I can just see what remains of OBL's guys sitting over there in Afgan-land laughing their asses off at how those stupid ass Americans are chasing their tails.. No matter WHAT precautions TSA or ANY other three-letter-agency does, they CANNOT completely 100% PREVENT any terrorist attack.. I gar-ron-tee if you think the bozos at TSA are good at security theater now, wait till they get what their drooling for.. 100% surveillance of EVERYBODY.. EVEN with that, a determined OBL-wanna-be can easily cause big kaboom, since by definition he WANTS to die, and have sex with his 72 virgins.... So, whats next after 100% surveillance? Use your imagination.... (shudder)

      I'm FAR FAR FAR more afraid of the US goverment and its security theater than I am the remote chance of my being killed by some OBL-wanna-be... I'm quite sure I'm NOT the only one who feels this way...

      A message from a few dead extremists. Don't commit suicide, there are no more virgins left. But we can give you some same sex ones.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  3. I'll say it again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fuck the TSA

    1. Re:I'll say it again.. by ark1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just remember, any liquid you may discharge in the process is subject to additional screening.

    2. Re:I'll say it again.. by dbryson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I second this, FUCK THE TSA!

      --
      You just wish your ID was as low as mine! I used to be proud to have such a low id, but not so much now. Slashdot most
    3. Re:I'll say it again.. by Lisias · · Score: 5, Funny

      Couple got caught in the airport's bathroom on a blowjob.

      "Ma'ham, please open your mouth. We have orders to test every liquid for explosives..."

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    4. Re:I'll say it again.. by kpainter · · Score: 2

      Couple got caught in the airport's bathroom on a blowjob.

      Former Senator Larry Craig?

    5. Re:I'll say it again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fuck the TSA

      Welcome to the Soviet States of America.

    6. Re:I'll say it again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -1, retard.

    7. Re:I'll say it again.. by dontbemad · · Score: 1

      I'm glad this was modded +5 Informative. There is nothing funny about forced sexual encounters with TSA officials. Especially ones that cause you to climax, thus adding to your inconvenience and time wasted.

    8. Re:I'll say it again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, HELL, NO!

      You're as liable as not to catch something particularly NASTY as a result. Let 'em go fuck themselves.

    9. Re:I'll say it again.. by azalin · · Score: 4, Funny

      I dare say that when it's in her mouth he already exploded...

    10. Re:I'll say it again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But in soviet america.... sounds like you'll make a lovely couple.

    11. Re:I'll say it again.. by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you cannot be required to get on an airplane.

      When your boss says "I need you in Hong Kong on Monday" I daresay you are required to get on an airplane... not all travel is holiday travel of convenience.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    12. Re:I'll say it again.. by Lisias · · Score: 1

      No, did'nt you know?

      He's on Guantalamo, charged for terrorism. He blowed things on a airport!

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    13. Re:I'll say it again.. by Lisias · · Score: 1

      Too bad for the guy, as some marines will probably shoot him on the eye for that.

      I was told that sex can be dangerous when I was a kid, I never realiazed it can be that much! =P

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    14. Re:I'll say it again.. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I second this, FUCK THE TSA!

      And they will fuck you back, in ways you never even imagined.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    15. Re:I'll say it again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not exactly true. Where I work there are people who just do not travel to the US.

      AC

    16. Re:I'll say it again.. by arth1 · · Score: 1

      You might think you don't have a choice, since if you fly commercial, you MUST let them check inside your asshole, etc. but that's where you're mistaken. You see, you don't have to fly. Unless your job is stewardess or airline pilot, air marshal, etc., you cannot be required to get on an airplane.

      Yet people have been arrested for choosing to opt out and not fly instead of being subjected to the searches.

      The only way to avoid unwarranted searches and seizures is to be a certain number of miles away from airports, borders and military infrastructure.
      I've heard that there's a small area in the South-East corner of South Dakota that qualifies.

    17. Re:I'll say it again.. by The_Revelation · · Score: 4, Funny

      I look forward to a time when paranoia reaches a point that TSA agents are required to swab each other.

    18. Re:I'll say it again.. by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      You really want to? I'd rather have them dismissed and sent home than having to fuck them. But then uniforms are not my fetish.

    19. Re:I'll say it again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry but the TSA fucks you. You are supposed to be subservient and obedient. Now get back in line and stop groping the friendly TSA agent.

    20. Re:I'll say it again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I refuse to fly on commercial airlines. I would rather drive to a client site than subject myself to being treated like a criminal. At some point someone is going to grab the handgun from the TSA agent's holster and shoot up a security checkpoint. "I can't take it anymore!" like Michael Douglas in a similar scene in the movie "Falling Down."

    21. Re:I'll say it again.. by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      flying on aircraft is against your religion

      ... and for Muslims, their religion is against flying on aircraft...

    22. Re:I'll say it again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do still have the freedom to not take a job that requires travel, I daresay.

    23. Re:I'll say it again.. by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Yes. Similarly, you have the freedom to smash your thumb with a hammer, or the freedom to die of starvation.

    24. Re:I'll say it again.. by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      If the TSA keeps running amok like they are, I daresay jobs requiring "I need you in Hong Kong on Monday" may very well go unfilled.. When I was looking for a job, I interviewed at one which after about 2 hours, when it was a pretty sure thing I'd be offered the position, and I asked about travel and they dropped the bomb, telling me the position was 50% travel.. I told them at that point this was a dealbreaker.. Due to government interference, I do not fly commercial airlines.. period.. I asked them before leaving why they didn't make that requirement up front, like in the JOB DESCRIPTION? Interviewer said HR nixxed it.. He also said they were having a hell of a time filling the position.. I wished him good luck and left.. Glad I turned it down, found a MUCH better job a few days later...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    25. Re:I'll say it again.. by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      I suspect if Mr Soetero is re-elected, the name of the country will suddenly change from the USA to the USSA, or USSR version 2...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    26. Re:I'll say it again.. by micahraleigh · · Score: 0

      Sartre would disagree.

      And ultimately he wins on this one ...

    27. Re:I'll say it again.. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I flew a couple of times in the USSR when I was a kid. There was no security screening. We just showed our tickets, dropped off our bags, and then walked out of the airport building (it was a small town, okay?) to the bus that took us to the plane on the airfield.

    28. Re:I'll say it again.. by jseale · · Score: 1

      C'mon guys! This is a family site. That wad a teensy bit gross.

    29. Re:I'll say it again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's more than three ounces, he should be given some sort of award.

    30. Re:I'll say it again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would anyone want to have sex with a bunch of fat, ugly, ignorant, middle-aged swine?

  4. non-toxic? by hawguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is the strip and solution really non-toxic? Will TSA provide independent test lab results to prove it? (unlike the poorly tested backscatter x-ray machines)?

    If they have a reliable test to determine if a liquid is hazardous or not, then how about letting me bring liquids through the checkpoints?

    TSA security theater story of the day:

    On a recent flight from IAD, just before the flight started boarding, the gate agent announced "Please have your ID available for inspection, TSA will be conduction random ID checks and baggage searches upon boarding". And sure enough, as we boarded, there was a TSA guy with his magic flashlight, randomly checking ID's for validity, and farther into the jetway was a pair of TSA agents randomly searching luggage.

    What's the point of a random check if it's announced when passengers can choose not to participate? If I were a bad guy with a fake ID or something bad in my luggage, I'd go home and try again a different day with a different fake ID.

    1. Re:non-toxic? by khallow · · Score: 2

      What's the point of a random check if it's announced when passengers can choose not to participate? If I were a bad guy with a fake ID or something bad in my luggage, I'd go home and try again a different day with a different fake ID.

      He'd be recorded as a no-show. If someone got ambitious and went through airport video (or a computer program did so), they just might notice that the bad guy left after hearing about the random check.

      Having said that, I don't see the point, unless they're trying to catch people who repeatedly break the law, like smugglers. Or to put up a show.

    2. Re:non-toxic? by hawguy · · Score: 4, Informative

      What's the point of a random check if it's announced when passengers can choose not to participate? If I were a bad guy with a fake ID or something bad in my luggage, I'd go home and try again a different day with a different fake ID.

      He'd be recorded as a no-show. If someone got ambitious and went through airport video (or a computer program did so), they just might notice that the bad guy left after hearing about the random check.

      Having said that, I don't see the point, unless they're trying to catch people who repeatedly break the law, like smugglers. Or to put up a show.

      If he has a fake ID, he'll just use a different one the next time.

      But being a no-show is not enough to get you on a no-fly or scrutiny list - I've canceled flights a number of times even a short time before departure and have never had any trouble getting back through security the next time I flew. This was both with full-fare unrestricted tickets and restricted discount tickets.

    3. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      If I were a bad guy with a fake ID or something bad in my luggage, I'd go home and try again a different day with a different fake ID.

      You know you don't need an ID to fly nationally, right?

    4. Re:non-toxic? by siddesu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Does the TSA know?

    5. Re:non-toxic? by narcc · · Score: 1

      I wondered about that myself. I've been required to show my ID every time I've flown domestically.

    6. Re:non-toxic? by Capt.+Skinny · · Score: 1

      Nor does TSA need to let you on your flight. There's nothing to stop them from questioning you for four hours when you don't bring an ID.

    7. Re:non-toxic? by spire3661 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As long as we are in the business of putting down people we dont agree with, can we start with you? A human being is not a liability, except to those that wish to have more then they need. You are suggesting we KILL HUMANS, sentient lights in the dark universe, because its 'expensive' to not let them rot in the gutter.

      --
      Good-bye
    8. Re:non-toxic? by hawguy · · Score: 0

      So is it o.k. for us to wait outside the airport, follow the TSA agents home, and then beat their heads in?

      I am just asking because TSA employment seems to be a lot of former welfare recipients, and in disposing of them we would actually be benefiting society as a whole.

      There's no reason to take your frustrations out on TSA agents. They are just doing a job, if you don't like the job they do, then get your government to get rid of the job, there's no need for personal attacks against the agents. I feel the same way about parking enforcement officers, I detest what they do, but I hold no animosity against the individual officers. If they write me a ticket that I feel is invalid, I protest it in court, not by yelling at the officer as she writes the ticket that her job requires her to write.

      If a former welfare recipient got a job as a TSA agent, that sounds like a great thing, I'd rather pay them to do useless work than pay them to sit at home and do nothing. Though if the government really wants to create a make-work program, I wish they'd bring back the CCC and rebuild our park system.

    9. Re:non-toxic? by ldobehardcore · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ya know, most of the time, the TSOs really aren't to blame....
      Yes, some of them (less than 50%, although probably close to 50%) do steal shit from your checked baggage and carry on.
      But really, it isn't the TSO's fault that they work for an organization as dumb as a pile of dogshit. It's a well paying job for people unwilling or unable (usually unwilling) to get an education of any kind, even if EVERYONE FUCKING HATES THEM.

      What are you gonna do? You have a girlfriend and two kids, and you're just too dumb to get a technical degree, are you gonna let them starve? No, you're going to go and get a menial, unskilled labor job with the TSA and get paid well to piss everyone off, cuz that's really all you're good for.

      I'm not saying the TSA is good. And I'd rather have no jobs for the genetically lobotomized, but it's just not their fault that most of them got the job of TSO, they're so useless they have no other choice. And in the "land of opportunity" (yeah right, opportunity my ass), everyone is entitled to try working at something. And it turns out that unskilled mouthbreathers are really great at fondling the unwilling, and stealing shit from people's bags.

      --
      Hectice, baby, Mercator says hello to you
    10. Re:non-toxic? by ldobehardcore · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nothing other than the fourth amendment, which prohibits unreasonable search and seizure. I'd count backscatter x-ray of everyone's naked bodies as unreasonable. Especially since it exposes everyone to a scientifically undetermined amount of ionizing radiation. Seizing ANY liquid of a volume greater than 3 ounces is also unreasonable.

      Also, the US Constitution grants citizens the right to unrestricted interstate travel. The TSA is pretty restrictive. So The TSA is breaking the FUCKING CONSTITUTION on at least two counts. I'll bet they'll be granted more and more ability to trample on citizen's rights until we have FUCKING NO RIGHTS AT ALL

      Dammit, I'm about to puke thinking of the FUCKING LEMMINGS IN CONGRESS, who said "oh, well we need to catch 'bad guys' at any cost. Terrorism seems like a good excuse. Let's just take everyone's rights away at bottle necks in movement and work out from there." Eventually we won't be allowed to walk on the sidewalk or drive on a road without a FUCKING PERMISSION SLIP from homeland security letting their agents know that "this person's a good guy, unless he's brown or black and seems suspicious (aka being brown or black)"

      --
      Hectice, baby, Mercator says hello to you
    11. Re:non-toxic? by hawguy · · Score: 2

      Also, the US Constitution grants citizens the right to unrestricted interstate travel. The TSA is pretty restrictive. So The TSA is breaking the FUCKING CONSTITUTION on at least two counts. I'll bet they'll be granted more and more ability to trample on citizen's rights until we have FUCKING NO RIGHTS AT ALL

      I think the TSA answer to that is that they aren't restricting all travel, just airline (and other public transport). You are still free to drive across the country without a single strip search. (unless, of course, you're caught speeding and the police officer is in a particularly bad mood).

    12. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They are just doing a job, if you don't like the job they do, then get your government to get rid of the job, there's no need for personal attacks against the agents

      That's reductionism, and it's bullshit. It was bullshit at the Nuremburg trials and it's bullshit here. You are responsible for your actions, you don't get to absolve yourself of moral responsibility by claiming "It's just my job." If you don't agree with the policies, then you'll stop showing up for work and find a different job. By continuing to show up, you are giving it your support and are morally responsible as well.

    13. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That didn't fly with any of the war crimes tribunals I'm aware of.

    14. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you brown, or do you have an Arab-sounding name?

    15. Re:non-toxic? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      You are still free to drive across the country without a single strip search.

      Yes, all the way from Anchorage to Honolulu.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    16. Re:non-toxic? by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wrong. The TSA now has "VIPR" checkpoints on the highways.

    17. Re:non-toxic? by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      You are suggesting we KILL HUMANS ...

      Yes. ALL humans - Bender

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    18. Re:non-toxic? by hawguy · · Score: 0

      Wow, I didn't expect Godwin's Law to be invoked so soon.

      Equating some inconvenience at the airport to the holocaust? Really?

    19. Re:non-toxic? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      no air travel for you today! you come back one year.

      NEXT!

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    20. Re:non-toxic? by PoopMonkey · · Score: 1

      "just doing their job" is NEVER a valid defense. Especially ones that have signed up to be TSA goons after it has been established that people don't like them.

    21. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'll add my own security theatre anecdotes :

      I wear contacts. On a recent plane trip, I had forgotten about the 24oz bottle of saline solution in my backpack. I saw it as I threw my wallet/watch/etc. into my bag, and was certain they'd make me throw it out. Much to my surprise, it qualified as a medical necessity and was exempt from the 3oz limit. No testing or swabbing, no questions asked. Just an easy walk through with 24oz of mystery fluid in a bottle marked "saline."

      But I can do you one better:

        A friend of mine is diabetic, and as such he carries needles, insulin, finger-pokey tools, etc. He also carries doctors notes explaining his condition and medical need for this equipment. However he's never been asked to show the documents or prove his condition in any way. TSA sees the needle and vials, sharp stabby equipment, and just lets it on through. How easy would it be to smuggle basically anything through, under the guise of medical necessity?

    22. Re:non-toxic? by hawguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "just doing their job" is NEVER a valid defense. Especially ones that have signed up to be TSA goons after it has been established that people don't like them.

      Many people don't like meter maids, but without them, parking in cities would be chaos (and cities would earn less revenue).

      Many people don't like policemen on the highways since they write tickets for no reason "But officer, my car was *made* to drive 120mph, there's hardly anyone on the road, what's the danger?"

      Many people don't like street sweepers because they make noise early in the morning, and cause annoying parking restrictions.

      Should we just get rid of *all* jobs that people don't like?

    23. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the point of a random check if it's announced when passengers can choose not to participate? If I were a bad guy with a fake ID or something bad in my luggage, I'd go home and try again a different day with a different fake ID.

      Because deciding to go home just before boarding the plane is not suspicious in the slightest. Also part of the plan is to make bad guys more nervous and thus easier to spot.

    24. Re:non-toxic? by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wrong. The TSA now has "VIPR" checkpoints on the highways.

      Those VIPRs aren't any big deal.

      I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    25. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the point of a random check if it's announced when passengers can choose not to participate? If I were a bad guy with a fake ID or something bad in my luggage, I'd go home and try again a different day with a different fake ID.

      That sounds awfully terrorist-speak.

      Son, you don't perhaps hang around with any of those Aaaarabs or turrurists do you?

    26. Re:non-toxic? by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      Eventually we won't be allowed to walk on the sidewalk or drive on a road without a FUCKING PERMISSION SLIP from homeland security letting their agents know that "this person's a good guy, unless he's brown or black and seems suspicious (aka being brown or black)"

      I think the TSA answer to that is that they aren't restricting all travel, just airline (and other public transport). You are still free to drive across the country without a single strip search. (unless, of course, you're caught speeding and the police officer is in a particularly bad mood).

      ...or you travel through Arizona. This is getting ridiculous!

    27. Re:non-toxic? by khallow · · Score: 1

      But being a no-show is not enough to get you on a no-fly or scrutiny list - I've canceled flights a number of times even a short time before departure and have never had any trouble getting back through security the next time I flew.

      If your cancellations correlated with the announcements of random screenings at the gate, it might be a different story.

    28. Re:non-toxic? by FictionPimp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You could have at least tried to find jobs that were not useful. The TSA serves no functional or useful purpose except to drain tax payer money, create waits and radiation, and to make us think we are safer.

      Without the TSA, airplanes would be just as safe, lines would be faster, and I wouldn't have to pay out the ass for a bottle of water.

    29. Re:non-toxic? by FictionPimp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was recently at a convention. A lot of the vendors gave out these bouncy balls full of some strange liquid and glitter. I threw them in my backpack and forgot about them. I was able to pass though security with 11 of them in my bag. Yes, 11 baseball sized balls of liquid.

    30. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Equating some inconvenience at the airport to the holocaust?

      An analogy is not comparing the aspects of one thing to all of the aspects of another; an analogy can be comparing certain aspects of one thing to certain aspects of another, and that's exactly what he was doing in this case! He did not, at any point, say that getting molested at an airport is as bad as the holocaust; that straw man was invented by your mind.

      What he did was apply your logic (that they're just doing your job) to another situation where similar logic was used. It did not apply there, so why would it here? If you're harming people, saying that you're "just doing a job" is not going to cut it.

    31. Re:non-toxic? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 4, Informative

      None of those jobs inherently require the employees to violate your rights.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    32. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unless he's brown or black and seems suspicious (aka being brown or black)"

      Like the President? :)

    33. Re:non-toxic? by moeinvt · · Score: 2

      How many dangerous explosive components or poisons could you DRINK without experiencing immediate side effects? Couldn't that be the 'test' for the liquid in a cup, bottle or thermos?

      Synthesizing nitric esters requires concentrated acids. Drinking bleach and ammonia would be painful as hell and the odor emanating from an open container would be easily recognized. If you had a high tolerance for pain, I guess you could probably chug down a concentrated solution of potassium chlorate, then dump it on the floor of the plain and let it dry out during your flight.

      I think this whole TSA thing is BS security theater and is simply conditioning people for obedience. I'm boycotting air travel until this nonsense ends.

    34. Re:non-toxic? by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      If I may, it was not an attempt to equate airport security with concentration camps. Merely debunking the "only doing their jobs" or "only following orders" justification for abuses in general.

    35. Re:non-toxic? by cawpin · · Score: 1

      They are talking about when you are boarding the flight, not while going through security.

    36. Re:non-toxic? by Larryish · · Score: 1

      Yes, you should totally start with me.

      Ready.

      Set.

      GO!

    37. Re:non-toxic? by sacremon · · Score: 2

      It is my training as a toxicologist coming out here, but the term "non-toxic" is nonsense. There is no such thing as non-toxic. Be exposed to enough of anything, including water and oxygen, and it is toxic, even fatally so. The question is "how much is safe". The assumption here is whatever they are using, the amount being used is within the expected maximum tolerable dose for humans. I would start to worry if they are doing this to bottles of baby formula, as what is tolerable for a 60kg adult might not be for a 6kg infant.

      --
      If you can't beat them, embrace and extend them.
    38. Re:non-toxic? by Worthless_Comments · · Score: 1

      Way to attack the form of his argument rather than the substance. Know what that tells me? You have no response; mainly because the only response you can have is that people are not ultimately responsible for their own personal actions - which is clearly bullshit.

    39. Re:non-toxic? by grumling · · Score: 1

      That's true. The TSA doesn't discriminate. Everyone gets prodded the same.

      The holocaust was directed at some specific members of society.

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    40. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here in China if they're concerned about a beverage being explosive they make you take a drink from it. I know that it's not technological, but I'm sure it works quite well. I'm guessing that by the reaction to the request they know if further screening is necessary.

      The problem with the TSA is that they're more interested in molesting children than actually securing the airports.

    41. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This.

    42. Re:non-toxic? by JBMcB · · Score: 1

      The purpose is to get you used to the idea, and to justify the TSA's existence.

      --
      My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    43. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      @hawguy, you come off sounding like a smug young idiot. Here's why:

      I was wondering how long it would take for someone to spring out from under a bridge and claim he was comparing to the holocaust. Do you -try- to engage your mediocre mind before posting?

      He wasn't comparing anything to the Holocaust, fool- He was comparing to a claim made by defendants in the trial itself- claims that didn't hold water then and do not now.

      The IMT was not a court convened to mete out punishment for the Holocaust alone. The tribunal was designed to document and redress crimes committed in the course of the most massive conflict the world has ever known. In October 1945, the IMT formally indicted the Nuremberg defendants on four counts: crimes against peace, war crimes, crimes against humanity, and conspiracy to commit these crimes.

      Then again, after looking at your other posts, I'm not surprised you popped up with this gem of oracular wisdom.

    44. Re:non-toxic? by jodido · · Score: 1

      How do you know they're former welfare recipients? Do you mean that they're African-American? Do you know that there effectively hasn't been any welfare for about ten years?

    45. Re:non-toxic? by Peristaltic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      @hawguy, another well thought-out comment... you never disappoint.

      Try looking at the situation with a finer grain: When a cop pulls me over for doing 120 gives me a ticket, he is doing society (and me) a service, even if I don't like it- When cops stop people on the street and search them without probable cause (other than their racial heritage), that is abuse, for which the statement "I was just following orders" holds no validity.

      Mods, why was this guy's comment modded "Insightful"?

    46. Re:non-toxic? by operagost · · Score: 0

      Well, that's certainly not true. If there really wasn't public assistance, there wouldn't be a need for women to purposely have children out of wedlock.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    47. Re:non-toxic? by Larryish · · Score: 1

      How do you know they're former welfare recipients? Do you mean that they're African-American?

      So you instantly equate being on welfare with being brown?

      Why do you hate brown-skinned people so much?

    48. Re:non-toxic? by gman003 · · Score: 1

      "Viper"? Seriously? Is the entire TSA just some big joke that got out of control, a "hey, let's make a government agency so obviously evil that they *have* to do something about it!", but nobody ever realized it's a joke so they keep ramping it up until they're using Cobra names for everything and we *still* haven't caught on.

    49. Re:non-toxic? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      You're half right. That argument is bullshit, but it's not reductionism. What part of the GP post made you think that "reducing complex systems to the interactions of their parts" was what he was doing?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    50. Re:non-toxic? by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      There's no reason to take your frustrations out on TSA agents. They are just doing a job, if you don't like the job they do, then get your government to get rid of the job, there's no need for personal attacks against the agents.

      It is my job to take my frustrations out on TSA agents. I'm just doing my job. If you don't like my job, then get rid of the TSA. There is no reason for you to personally attack me.

      You insensitive clod.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    51. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure they do, there's the unreasonable search and seizure portion of the 4th amendment. How about innocent until proven guilty?
      The backscatter and going through your luggage are both searches, and all they are is theater. Then when they come up to you to check your drink or anything on you, that's pretty much an assumption of guilt.

    52. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was recently at a convention. A lot of the vendors gave out these bouncy balls

      The 79th Annual Circus Performers' Convention?

    53. Re:non-toxic? by Quanticfx · · Score: 1

      That makes the whole thing even more ridiculous, they aren't even consistent about the screening.

      When I was traveling with my infant daughter on the way to our destination all of her food (those little pouches of baby food) and breast milk my wife had put into bottles had to be tested on the way back nothing was tested, even though we took it out and put it in plain view for the agents to see. During another trip it wasn't tested in either direction.

      None of this should be done in the first place, but jeez if you're going to do it at all at least be consistent. Just goes to show the whole thing is a total crock.

    54. Re:non-toxic? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      What? I don't think you read the post I replied to; I was not referring to the TSA.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    55. Re:non-toxic? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      VIPR: "Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response".

      Yep, you pretty much summed it up. Or maybe it's just a test to see just how far they can push Americans into a police state before they start pushing back.

    56. Re:non-toxic? by gman003 · · Score: 1

      They may have words to make it an acronym, but trust me - if the Joes were to see trucks with the word "VIPR" on them, stopping American citizens with no cause, there would be some *serious* lasers going on within seconds.

    57. Re:non-toxic? by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      Or to put up a show.

      Ding Ding Ding.. We have a winner!!!

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    58. Re:non-toxic? by drunken_boxer777 · · Score: 1

      I wholeheartedly agree.

      I also look at it this way: Politicians, and certainly quite a few of our citizens, are willing to send troops and national guardsmen overseas to fight and die, willing to sacrifice their lives for our freedom. However, why can't the citizenry do the same (potentially sacrifice their lives through fewer security measures at airports) in exchange for freedom (no invasion of privacy by backscatter, TSA, restrictions on liquids, etc)?

    59. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But really, it isn't the TSO's fault that they work for an organization as dumb as a pile of dogshit.

      Are they being held at gunpoint as slaves?

      It's a well paying job for people unwilling or unable (usually unwilling) to get an education of any kind, even if EVERYONE FUCKING HATES THEM.

      And we're supposed to feel sorry for these people?

      What are you gonna do? You have a girlfriend and two kids, and you're just too dumb to get a technical degree, are you gonna let them starve? No, you're going to go and get a menial, unskilled labor job with the TSA and get paid well to piss everyone off, cuz that's really all you're good for.

      Still not seeing how this is a good thing for anyone, except the shithead who nobody likes.

      I'm not saying the TSA is good.

      And yet you're making excuses for them.

    60. Re:non-toxic? by dywolf · · Score: 1

      there's pretty big difference between gassing people in showers and gesturing them through a scanner. also dont forget the power of fear, fear of becoming one of the people you used to guard in the case of many low ranking nazi's (lot of times, not even real nazi's, just did it cause was expected, or else go to jail, or not eat).

      hell I garuntee there's policies at your work you disagree with, yet you still go.
      so climb on down off that high horse.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    61. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah! A fellow attendee of the Annual Gathering of Mammary Augmentation Surgeons! Wasn't it cool when they starting throwing around those silicon bags into the audience?

      I was the guy with the "I also do butts" t-shirt and the "T&A" hat.

    62. Re:non-toxic? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      hell I garuntee there's policies at your work you disagree with, yet you still go.

      None of which require me to violate people's rights. If that were the case, I'd say it would indeed be wrong to go. Also, tu quoque.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    63. Re:non-toxic? by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      On a recent flight from IAD, just before the flight started boarding, the gate agent announced "Please have your ID available for inspection, TSA will be conduction random ID checks and baggage searches upon boarding". And sure enough, as we boarded, there was a TSA guy with his magic flashlight, randomly checking ID's for validity, and farther into the jetway was a pair of TSA agents randomly searching luggage.

      What's the point of a random check if it's announced when passengers can choose not to participate? If I were a bad guy with a fake ID or something bad in my luggage, I'd go home and try again a different day with a different fake ID.

      Every so often, driving down the highway in these parts, there'd be a temporary sign erected that said there was a drug checkpoint ahead. These would always be placed just before the next exit came into view. The cops, of course, weren't waiting down the road, but rather at the next offramp.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    64. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the point of a random check if it's announced when passengers can choose not to participate? If I were a bad guy with a fake ID or something bad in my luggage, I'd go home and try again a different day with a different fake ID.

      Reminds me of the NY subway. Occasionally there are police down there grabbing a few people to search their bags. Theoretically, you can just walk away and not ride the subway. So no one smart with anything illegal in their bag would actually submit to a search.

      But assuming you want to avoid the suspicion of refusing a search. It seems it would be easy enough to send a spotter down first, who would warn you if the cops are there that day (they probably aren't). If they're there, you just postpone the plan (or pick a different route).

      Their coverage has always been so light as to be completely ineffective.

    65. Re:non-toxic? by randyleepublic · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but where does responsibility end? The other night I was feeling pretty damn horrible about paying my federal income tax - it funds terrorists, i.e. the US Federal government. It makes sense, but is not conducive to living. I am not quite ready to sit down in a public place with a gallon of gasoline and a zippo.

      --
      Social Credit would solve everything...
    66. Re:non-toxic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was recently at a convention. A lot of the vendors gave out these bouncy balls full of some strange liquid and glitter. I threw them in my backpack and forgot about them. I was able to pass though security with 11 of them in my bag. Yes, 11 baseball sized balls of liquid.

      And I had a snowglobe I'd bought for my 4-year daughter while on trip to conference taken from me, resulting the following conversation when I got home:

      Me: "Sorry honey, the fake cops at the airport stole the unicorn snowglobe I got you while I was gone."
      Cherub: "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"

      Thanks, TSA, for that Norman Rockwell homecoming.

    67. Re:non-toxic? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Non-toxic is where there is no long-term toxicity and your body will, in normal circumstances, not handle levels that are unsafe. Take marijuana for instance. THC is "non-toxic" in that an overdose on marijuana by smoking it would cause asphyxia before overdose. Or water, where your thirst will end before toxic levels are reached (unless there's some interference with the feedback mechanisms, like Ecstasy or such). But for alcohol, more than they should drink until their heart stops, so it's toxic.

    68. Re:non-toxic? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I've driven from DC to Anchorage, no strip search.

    69. Re:non-toxic? by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      Oh please, you get as much radiation as 3 MINUTES in flight, and as for the right to travel, do you think requiring a driver's license to drive is unconstitutional too?

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    70. Re:non-toxic? by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      Well if the Republicans win, the oceans will get so polluted you'll be able to do that!

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  5. The TSA needs to be stopped by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was an American teenager in the 1970s. Back then, people made fun of the Soviet Union. One of the most popular jokes referred to a Soviet citizen's internal passport, which apparently they were supposed to carry even when going from city to city. And of course there were all the stories about the KGB.

    Fast forward to now. The TSA is becoming more and more intrusive into all aspects of our lives. They are even trying to worm their way into searching you on city buses and trains. Also Congress has, on more than one occasion, entertained proposals that would require US citizens to carry what amounts to an internal passport.

    Reagan told Mr. Gorbachev to tear down that wall... and we thought we won the Cold War. But I guess Breshnev and company are having the last laugh.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by biometrizilla · · Score: 1

      Not just the TSA. Here in North Carolina you can be stopped at a "license check" roadblock. A thinly veiled attempt to catch drunk drivers, but requires you to present your driver's license to the officer. He may as well say, "Your papers please", just like in Nazi Germany.

    2. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Cyberax · · Score: 3, Informative

      The joke is, in the USSR you didn't have to carry internal passport (which is just a form of country-wide standardized ID) anywhere. You could fly on airplanes or ride trains without showing ANY form of ID.

    3. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I was an American teenager in the 1970s. Back then, people made fun of the Soviet Union. One of the most popular jokes referred to a Soviet citizen's internal passport, which apparently they were supposed to carry even when going from city to city. And of course there were all the stories about the KGB.

      The most popular joke is our Pledge of Allegiance, which until the red scare, did not include the words "under god". Communists were portrayed as being godless heathens, and thus atheists and agnostics were frequently profiled (to use the modern vernacular) by police and the authorities. Of course, sixty years later, revisionist history has all but forgotten it. This country has a long and inglorious history of sacrificing its citizens on the altar of public opinion whenever an external threat was perceived. "I hold in my hand a list of 80 names of communist party members in the democratic caucus" is laughed at as an example of how 'backwards' people in the 50s and 60s were, even as we nod our heads agreeably to watchlists containing tens of thousands of names of suspected terrorists.

      Change the names and places, and people forget it's the same dance.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    4. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's actually bullshit. Going to Leningrad from Riga required a very distinct passport check, guess you only went within one PSR? Let's not even mention restricted towns. In short you are either foolishly ignorant or lying.

    5. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I was an American teenager in the 1970s. Back then, people made fun of the Soviet Union. One of the most popular jokes referred to a Soviet citizen's internal passport, which apparently they were supposed to carry even when going from city to city. And of course there were all the stories about the KGB.

      You were suppose to carry a gov't issued ID card. If you were stopped by police, you could be asked for it. And that had *nothing* to do with traveling, just everyone above age 18 or so was suppose to have one in their wallet.

      What's the difference in the US? You can't get on a plane without ID. In Soviet Union, you could get on a plane, train, boat, whatever without ID. They just asked you for the ticket - imagine that! You only needed ID in case the police stopped you, and there were no police on planes.

      Not carrying ID could get you a ticket. But then I've never known anyone that was asked for ID outside of a traffic stop (driver license, ID card).

    6. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>They are even trying to worm their way into searching you on city buses and trains.

      Trying? It's already being done at random bus and train stations. Also malls, post offices, parks, hotels, and along interstate highways. Or even just walking down the street.

      The TSA and their VIPR teams can accost you at any time.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    7. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by hawguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's the difference in the US? You can't get on a plane without ID. In Soviet Union, you could get on a plane, train, boat, whatever without ID. They just asked you for the ticket - imagine that! You only needed ID in case the police stopped you, and there were no police on planes.

      Not carrying ID could get you a ticket. But then I've never known anyone that was asked for ID outside of a traffic stop (driver license, ID card).

      And just today in Arizona a judge upheld Arizona's Show me your papers law. If you look foreign and are in Arizona, you better have your papers with you or you may find yourself sitting in jail until you can confirm that you're here legally.

    8. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by utkonos · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sorry, but which restricted town are you speaking of in that region? Sosnovy Bor? Kronshtadt? There weren't constant checks in those places. Of course if you looked out of place, you would be checked, but it wasn't like the place was in lock-down 24 hours a day. Even now, Sosnovy Bor is closed, but I have never been checked, not even once while visiting people there.

    9. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by utkonos · · Score: 1

      Also, it occurred to me, what road were you taking between Riga and Piter that required such a passport check? The now E77 through Misso then northeast through Pskov?

      Anyway, speaking of the road between Latvia and Piter: "he lived the way he sang". Tsoi zhiv!

    10. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Cyberax · · Score: 2

      Well, my family traveled from Astana (then Tselinograd) to Moscow by airplane. There were no passport checks at all. We moved a lot between cities in the USSR as well. No passport checks, again.

    11. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He may as well say, "Your papers please", just like in Nazi Germany.

      I didn't know they spoke English in Nazi Germany?

      "Papieren, bitte!"

    12. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In truth, if you're here legally and aren't a Citizen, you're SUPPOSED to have those papers on your person- period. The law, as it were.

      The restrictions on not needing to present papers applies to CITIZENS as they're the only ones granted privileges and immunities by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

    13. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Loki_1929 · · Score: 0

      The Arizona law does nothing that isn't already in Federal law or that hasn't been in Federal law for a long, long time. All immigrants in the United States are required by Federal law to have their immigration paperwork with them at all times and to present it to law enforcement and immigration officials upon request.

      The only reason you or anyone else is pissy about Arizona's law is because you're 1) ignorant of existing Federal law and/or 2) supportive of people violating our borders and flooding into the country illegally.

      Nations have a right as part of their national sovereignty to know who is crossing their borders and they have the right to deny entry to non-citizens at will. Anyone found to have crossed illegally should be returned to their nation of origin and barred for legal entry for a long, long time.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    14. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Change the names and places, and people forget it's the same dance.

      The next generation can't forget what they never knew.

      Do you really think current public school history books make mention of the extremist views of McCarthy-ites or bother to compare and contrast the evils of the Soviet communist regimes to the mundane security measures cooked up by Homieland Security?

      Well, I'm glad you remember. Now go teach your children, but don't be surprised when they can't appreciate the irony or they've already been taught to accept the indignities of random searches as part of what freedom seemingly requires. After all, 'we' accept drug testing in the workplace, alcohol check points on public roadways and voter purges by Republicans.

      Remember: Eternal vigilance begins at home.

       

    15. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by hawguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The only reason you or anyone else is pissy about Arizona's law is because you're 1) ignorant of existing Federal law and/or 2) supportive of people violating our borders and flooding into the country illegally.

      No, I'm pissy about it because it allows a USA citizen to be detained until he produces papers just because he appears foreign and might be here illegally. My wife is a USA citizen, but she immigrated here from her home country, doesn't speak perfect English and still has a strong accent from her native language. What's to stop her from being stopped and detained until she produces documentation?

      Nations have a right as part of their national sovereignty to know who is crossing their borders and they have the right to deny entry to non-citizens at will. Anyone found to have crossed illegally should be returned to their nation of origin and barred for legal entry for a long, long time.

      The USA of all nations has little right to claim that only those that are here legally have a right to be here, given our history.

    16. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by metacell · · Score: 1

      Doesn't that, in practice, give them the right to ask for anyone's papers, since anyone can be a non-citizen until they've checked?

    17. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He may as well say, "Your papers please", just like in Nazi Germany.

      I didn't know they spoke English in Nazi Germany?

      "Papieren, bitte!"

      But they didn't speak broken German either...

    18. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      To be fair, I'm pretty sure you're legally required to carry your driver's license any time you operate a motor vehicle on public roads. Of course, this doesn't mean they're supposed to stop everyone and inspect it. Also, the NC state police or local police doing this isn't as bad as the TSA, a federal agency, doing it. It's a lot easier for an angry citizen to make a change at the local or even state level than at the federal level.

      Now, if they're demanding licenses from passengers in the vehicle too, that's another matter entirely.

    19. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by willy_me · · Score: 2

      Here in North Carolina you can be stopped at a "license check" roadblock.

      In Canada, and I would assume most states, you only have to provide your drivers license if the officer has sufficient grounds to request it. For example, a driving infraction. Police are free to request it but you do not have to humour their request. As it turns out, most people just hand over their drivers license.

      Had a friend's father that was a defence lawyer in a small town (~5000). The police hated him - he always defended the people they arrested. That and he would never let the police overstep their authority. I recall them asking for a drivers license at a random stop - his response, no. The officer asked again several times implying that there would be trouble if he did not comply. His response, no - and that's how it ended.

      I guess I'm saying people should read their local laws to see how they are affected. And remember, police do not have to tell the truth so do not automatically trust them. Police act on their own self interest, just like everyone else. They are not always on your side.

    20. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by dbIII · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Australia took that to extremes and deported an Australian citizen that had been born in the Phillipines. She was injured in a car accident, and her head injuries and lack of ID meant nobody knew who she was - she was too brain damaged to be able to speak more than a few words. At the time the immigration department had a bounty paid each time someone was deported so she was quickly put in a wheelchair, taken to the airport and flown to Manila while the official that was criminally negligent in getting her deported without establishing identity pocketed the bounty money. If a church in Manila hadn't found her and cared for her she would have died in the airport. I think it was about five years before her children found out why their mother never came home.

      That's an example of what you get when it's seen as a popular policy to pick on foreigners.

    21. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      What are you, nuts? Sovereignty is a basic concept of nations. Having a say in who comes and goes is...basic. You can't get any more basic-er. I live in a foreign country and it's beyond any shred of a doubt that I should have the proper visa at all times. It's also beyond any shred of a doubt that my host nation has the right to do this...and its history is much "worse" than "evil USA".

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    22. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Alex+Zepeda · · Score: 1

      Godless heathens? Tell that to Pussy Riot...

      --
      The revolution will be mocked
    23. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by hawguy · · Score: 1

      What are you, nuts? Sovereignty is a basic concept of nations. Having a say in who comes and goes is...basic. You can't get any more basic-er. I live in a foreign country and it's beyond any shred of a doubt that I should have the proper visa at all times. It's also beyond any shred of a doubt that my host nation has the right to do this...and its history is much "worse" than "evil USA".

      But who decides when Sovereignty starts? Obviously it's the guys with the bigger guns, but just because a land is populated by an unsophisticated society (by european standards) that did not value land ownership, shouldn't mean that they lose control of their land and get relegated to small reservations with a fraction of the territory they used to live in.

    24. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Seriously, you need to do some research on the whole concept of the nation-state. I'd argue with you but you're obviously ignorant.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    25. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Loki_1929 · · Score: 1

      No, I'm pissy about it because it allows a USA citizen to be detained until he produces papers just because he appears foreign and might be here illegally. My wife is a USA citizen, but she immigrated here from her home country, doesn't speak perfect English and still has a strong accent from her native language. What's to stop her from being stopped and detained until she produces documentation?

      What's to stop her from being stopped and detained anywhere in the US by ICE agents? Again, your problem has nothing to do with what Arizona passed. There is absolutely NOTHING in the Arizona law which doesn't already exist in US Federal law. This isn't Arizona passing some new sweeping measure; this is Arizona looking at Federal law and saying "yeah, me too!"

      The difference is, Arizona has built in protections to their law which don't exist in Federal law to minimize the chances of a US citizen being hassled over an immigration question. They can't simply stop you for no good reason and demand your papers. They must have a reasonable suspicion that you've committed a criminal act AND they must have an articulable reason to believe you're not just foreign, but here in the country illegally. Only THEN can the Arizona police ask for proof of legal residence and producing ANY Federal, state, or local identification whose issuance requires proof of legal residence immediately ENDS all question of your legal residency under Arizona's law. You don't get that in Federal law. Federal law says ICE can pull you AND your wife out of your car and detain you for however long it takes until the agents involved are damn good and ready to believe you have a right to be in the country.

      If you have anything to be pissy about, it's the Federal statutes. Those are VASTLY more stringent and have a lot less protections for your rights and your wife's.

      The USA of all nations has little right to claim that only those that are here legally have a right to be here, given our history.

      Every nation has the right to police its borders as part of its national sovereignty. To believe otherwise puts you in the extremist fringe next to anarchists and "sovereign citizens".

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    26. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Loki_1929 · · Score: 0

      What makes you think that Arizona's law is "picking on foreigners"?

      Arizona has copied parts of US Federal law, added extra protections for citizens and legal residents, and is now looking to actually enforce the pieces of US Federal law they've copied onto their own books. There's nothing in there which picks on anyone who's in the United States legally.

      Have you actually read this law? Or are you commenting on what you've seen in the news or read on Internet forums?

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    27. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by deimtee · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, you are mistaken. The authors of the constitution were very precise in their terminology. If they meant "citizen" they said so. If they said "people", it applies to everyone, citizen or not.
      Text of the fourth amendment:"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
      Note it says "people" NOT "citizens".

      --
      I'm guessing that wasn't on their radar screen...
    28. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The USA of all nations has little right to claim that only those that are here legally have a right to be here, given our history.

      The US has every right to claim this.

      Protip: Conquest is a legitimate source of authority, and has been since the dawn of mankind.

    29. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by fatphil · · Score: 1

      > I live in a foreign country and it's beyond any shred of a doubt that I should have the proper visa at all times.

      I live in a foreign country, and I don't need a visa at all.

      You are clearly over-generalising.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    30. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      I doubt that people doing the same thing as they did in the US would fare much better.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    31. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by asylumx · · Score: 1

      I'd argue with you but you're obviously ignorant.

      There's no point anyway, you've lost the argument with this statement. There is no excuse to turn to personal attacks.

    32. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      don't be so full of bullshit. of course it depends which era of soviet union you're speaking of, but in no era of the soviet union could you travel from the west border to the east border without checks.. of course russians being russians it varied wildly from region to region and copper to copper(and bribing mechanisms to gifting mechanisms..).

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_passport

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    33. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you think "We the people" didn't mean the citizens, eh?

    34. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by cawpin · · Score: 1

      No, I'm pissy about it because it allows a USA citizen to be detained until he produces papers just because he appears foreign and might be here illegally.

      Like he said, you are ignorant of the law. The Arizona law specifically prohibits the use of race, unlike the federal statute, as a means of determining whether somebody is in the country illegally or not.

    35. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      Right. To conduct what's commonly referred to as a "Terry Stop" (after the Terry v. Ohio SCOTUS case) a cop has to have "reasonable suspicion" (lower standard than PC) that a crime is taking place.

      Good for your friend's father! We need more people who are willing to stand up for their liberties and fewer sheep who meekly comply with the cops.

      Now, this is easy to SAY and damned hard to actually DO. I think we're naturally cooperative, and well conditioned to fear the police. I have a little note card that I keep with my registration just in case.

      When the cops demand "your papers please" for no apparent reason, answer their questions with questions:

      Am I being detained?
      Am I free to go?
      Do you have reasonable suspicion that I'm involved in criminal activity? If yes, what's the crime? If no, am I free to go?

      Go to 'copblock.org' for some good videos of people standing up for themselves during random BS stops by the authorities.

    36. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      sed "s/communist/terrorist"/g fear_rhetoric.old > fear_rhetoric.new

    37. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by microTodd · · Score: 1

      Holy crap! This is a tearjerker horror story right there.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Solon/

      --
      "You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
    38. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by sgtrock · · Score: 1

      Actually, GP is correct; that phrase means both citizens and non-citizens. Citizens are a subset of people in this context.

    39. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Panaflex · · Score: 1

      Up until 1991 you could get on a plane in the USA without any id. I could pay for a flight in cash and get on it a few minutes later, without any inspections. Seriously - did it all the time. It wasn't until the first Iraq war that they started asking the security questions and performing metal detector tests for everyone.

      --
      I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
    40. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "1 + 1 = 2. You're an idiot for thinking otherwise!"

      Whoops. Lost the argument!

    41. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair:

      The Soviet Union was the first state to have, as an ideological objective, the elimination of religion[1] and its replacement with atheism.

      In places in the Soviet Union religious believers were actively harassed/persecuted.
      The words "under God" were added to distinguish Americans from Soviets, but it could be argued that it ignores the beliefs of American atheists. But we weren't the only ones trying to portray the Soviets as "Godless heathens", as they were actively and openly trying to suppress the practice of religion in the USSR.

    42. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The next time a foreign tourist visits the United States of Amerika and they are questioned by "law enforcement" on the street the tourist should say, "I am a visitor to your country invited here by your President. Step aside." The statement is in fact truthful because all laws, including immigration laws which cover temporary tourist visas, are personally signed-off by the POTUS. Naturally, the tourist will be physically accosted, arrested, and charged with "uttering terroristic threats." For the full American hospitality experience pray you are flown all expenses paid to the Cuban resort called Gitmo.

    43. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 1

      "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Note it says "people" NOT "citizens".
      Try that with the text of the 2nd amendment. Then see if anyone thinks that restrictions on gun ownership are illegal b/c it says people not citizens.

      --
      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    44. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      So you think "We the people" didn't mean the citizens, eh?

      How the hell could 'we the people' have meant citizens? That's completely nonsensical. 'We the people' is part of the preamble; it is explaining who is creating the nation and why. So, how can a nation be created by its own citizens? You can't be a citizen of a nation that doesn't yet exist. Sure, we had the Articles of Confederation, but the Constitution was founding an entirely new government, and therefore an entirely new nation. You can't be citizens of a nation before you found it.

      And do you really think the Founding Fathers would have been so sloppy in their word choice? It's not like they never used the word 'citizen' anywhere. If they assumed 'people' meant 'citizen', then why does the word 'citizen' appear at all in the Constitution? And if they had meant 'citizen', why not just say that?

    45. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      And what about when a brown US citizen doesn't have any ID on him and ends up in detention for a few MONTHS? This isn't some hypothetical; there are documented cases of this happening. Some are included in:
      http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/reports/usa-jailed-without-justice

    46. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The USA of all nations has little right to claim that only those that are here legally have a right to be here, given our history.

      The USA is hardly the only nation where the majority of the population displaced/killed the previous inhabitants. Take the United Kingdom, none of the Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, or Normans are from there, they all came from elsewhere. Similarly, most the populations descended from the Romans. Or the Huns, the Mongols, the Arabs, etc. Humans conquer. It's what we do.

    47. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're arguing *against* the well-supported interpretation of 'people' vs. 'citizen', as ruled on by the United States Supreme Court. Just FYI.

    48. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Hatta · · Score: 1

      There's nothing in there which picks on anyone who's in the United States legally.

      So if you're a foreign looking citizen who carries no proof of identification, what exactly will happen to you if police stop you and ask for proof that you are in this country legally?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    49. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The preamble of the constitution establishes "people" as "the people of the United States" - ie, "citizens". Hell, "people" used to only mean "white men". No one who's ever been taught any US history would believe that the constitution and the bill of rights always included "everyone" in their definition of "people".

    50. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      They are not always on your side.

      I'm gonna go out on a limb and state they're VERY rarely, if EVER, on your side... I've read too many cases where a homeowner calls the police to report a prowler and the police show up, guns a blazin' .. put the homeowner on the floor, shoot the homeowners dog.. Which is why I do my own policing of my property.. A nice double-barreled shotgun.. Of course if I lived in the "People's Democratic Republic Of California" like I used to, instead of Nevada, I'd be looking at jailtime if I blew away a prowler in my house.. Fortunantly Nevada is more like Texas in this respect.. We had a case here recently where the homeowner was accosted in his home by a burgler and was able to get his home defense weapon and give the miscreant a nice dirtnap.. No charges pressed against the homeowner.. The BIG thing to remember, make SURE the crook is DEAD.. a wounded burgler is deadly.. he attracts low-life slime lawyers who just LOVE to sue for injuries to their poor misguided client.. Even if he doesn't sue you, once he's healed, he may come back for a re-match.. Making him DEAD rules that one out...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    51. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      That's an example of what you get when it's seen as a popular policy to pick on foreigners.

      Not quite...

      At the time the immigration department had a bounty paid each time someone was deported

      Sounds like an example of what happens when a poorly designed financial incentive is used. Even a well-meaning effort will go awry when you introduce perverse financial incentive. For example, there was an archaologist that offered locals a reward for each bone fragment they found; he later learned the locals would find well-preserved bones only to smash them to maximize the reward.

    52. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I was in Florida, I was told I had to carry ID on me at all times..

      Was news to me, I just wanted to get into Universal!

    53. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Dogers · · Score: 1

      But who decides when Sovereignty starts? Obviously it's the guys with the bigger guns, but just because a land is populated by an unsophisticated society (by european standards) that did not value land ownership, shouldn't mean that they lose control of their land and get relegated to small reservations with a fraction of the territory they used to live in.

      I say, do you have a flag?

      --
      I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
    54. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      in no era of the soviet union could you travel from the west border to the east border without checks..

      You could, actually. Just board the train and go.

      Yes, you had a very slim chance of running into a militia (police) guy who'd ask for your passport for whatever reason, but that was about it. And yes, you were supposed to register if you stayed somewhere for more than a few days - but that, again, is a different thing.

    55. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Given that communists are not the ones who locked those girls up, how is it relevant?

    56. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Dogers · · Score: 1

      The BIG thing to remember, make SURE the crook is DEAD.. a wounded burgler is deadly..

      As someone once said - it's your word against their and if they have no words, well, who are they going to believe?

      --
      I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
    57. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Arizona law doesn't actually require you to carry a visa; a driver's license or other state-issued ID is sufficient to prove legal residency.

    58. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is, there was nothing like TSA in the USSR. You could board buses, trains, and yes, even planes completely unmolested.

      You could say that this all was before 9/11. I suspect that it would have actually stayed that way even if USSR had its own 9/11, and here's why: it simply wouldn't have been widely known, because the distribution of any information on it would be carefully controlled. So no "OMG the sky is falling" panic, and therefore no need for all the security theater to calm down the populace and score some more points for the next election by being tough on whatever.

      I'm not saying it's good or bad, just something to think about.

    59. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      For more than 30 days, except for stays associated with vacation and/or medical needs.

    60. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I'm pissy about it because it allows a USA citizen to be detained until he produces papers just because he appears foreign and might be here illegally. My wife is a USA citizen, but she immigrated here from her home country, doesn't speak perfect English and still has a strong accent from her native language. What's to stop her from being stopped and detained until she produces documentation?

      They'll check when they already have her detained -like in a traffic violation
      If she doesn't have a driver's license when she's pulled over at that traffic stop then she will be detained just like you or I would. If she does have a license then there's no issue -that's proof enough that we're all legal citizens.
      Also driving in a way that doesn't increase your odds at getting pulled-over helps too.

      Nations have a right as part of their national sovereignty to know who is crossing their borders and they have the right to deny entry to non-citizens at will. Anyone found to have crossed illegally should be returned to their nation of origin and barred for legal entry for a long, long time.

      The USA of all nations has little right to claim that only those that are here legally have a right to be here, given our history.

      -and find me any other country that does?

    61. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cite ???

      I don't believe a word of this nonsense.

      No-one in the Australian Immigration dept gets paid a "bounty" for deporting people.

      You're just making this all up.

    62. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vivian Solon.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Solon

      There was no "bounty".

      A full enquiry was held and heads rolled.

      Ms Solon was returned to Australia at the governments expense and collected $4,500,000 compensation.

      You need to get your facts right.

    63. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by dbIII · · Score: 1

      There was a financial reward to staff for each successful deportation. A bit of time with the dictionary should show you that fits the definition of a bounty even if it had a different official name. I don't think I need to cite anything for a situation that got so much media coverage for several years - either look for it yourself if you care or take the lazy option and assume I got it wrong based purely on your gut feeling. I'm not going to fall for the troll tactic of you making me waste time finding links on the internet for stuff that I saw in other media over a three year period.

    64. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and Im sure she came here legally. Not by your standards.
      This has to do with being here legally. Not illegally. I dont see one distinguishing factor your argument, which, leads me to believe youre in favor of illegal immigrants.

    65. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is it you expect the INS to do? Take everyone at their word? If they say they are a citizen, then they are?

    66. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The only reason you or anyone else is pissy about Arizona's law is because you're 1) ignorant of existing Federal law and/or 2) supportive of people violating our borders and flooding into the country illegally.

      Or, the people that realize that demanding paperwork one does not have (because they are a citizen) is a very fascist thing to do. What do you do if they state they don't have it because they are a citizen? Hold them until you can confirm? Or let them go? If you let them go, what happens when everyone claims they don't have it because they are a citizen? Do you hold them to check, or let everyone go? Or, just hold the brown people who talk a little funny?

    67. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      And you think that will stop the police from profiling? Why is it that the conservatives swing wildly from no trust in the government to absolute trust in the government based on the topic? But a liberal who distrusts the government consistently is considered a wishy-washy flip-flopper?

    68. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Well, that's simply proof that the "AZ law just follows US law" is a lie. US law requires that the visa/permit be on the non-citizen resident at all times. Allowing some other ID to suffice breaks that model.

    69. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by cawpin · · Score: 1

      I didn't say anything about what the cops will do, only pointed out the false claim about what the law allows. I said the LAW forbids it. Blaming a law for the failings of an individual is, like i said, ignorant.

    70. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      AZ law is simply more practical. Why would they care if a legal immigrant doesn't carry his paper on him, anyway? It doesn't actually hurt anyone.

      And, yeah, in theory one could get a driver's license and then overstay the visa for a couple years until that license runs out. But, again, someone who had a visa in the first place is not likely to cause trouble, since they were already screened back when they were granted it, so it's not worth the effort.

      I only wish Feds were as reasonable. Personally, I don't carry my visa or I-94 on me despite those requirements - I don't want to risk losing them, since recovering that can be a major pain in the ass; and, technically, you're also required to have some supporting documentation with you as well, which (in case of L-1) can be a fairly thick folder. I also don't know anyone who does that, either, all for the same reasons. But then we don't have random CBP checkpoints hereabouts, whereas where they do exist - near Mexican border - people were getting in trouble carrying only their license.

    71. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by Loki_1929 · · Score: 1

      In Arizona's case, the police can only ask about your immigration status if you're suspected of a crime and they have an articulable reason to specifically suspect that you're in the United States illegally (and that reason cannot be because of race, skin color, etc. according to the Arizona law). If an individual is suspected of driving through a red light, has no license, can't speak English, and has form of identification, they already have a laundry list of reasons to detain that individual. It is, per the Arizona law, specifically illegal for the police to detain an individual due to their race or skin color. It's illegal. You can argue all you want about what you think some cops might do in hypothetical scenarios, but the law clear and specifically states that isn't allowed. Further, if an individual is suspected of being in the country illegally in Arizona there, the police MUST accept any Federal, state, or local identification whose issuance requires proof of legal residence. Doesn't matter what other evidence they have. Doesn't matter if you flat admit to being here illegally. The moment you produce a drivers license or non-driver ID or government worker ID or any other ID that meets the criteria, any questioning of your legal status in this country ends immediately.

      Now, if we're talking about ICE/DHS? They can pretty much do whatever the Hell they want. They can demand paperwork of a blonde haired, blue eyed woman walking through Central Park in NYC speaking perfect English to her group of friends. They can take the drivers license you have with you and laugh at it as they haul you off to detention. They can decide that whatever you show them proving you're here legally is worthless. They can decide that your drivers license, passport, birth certificate, and personal endorsement from President Obama himself is all worthless and then they can deport you.

      In Mexico, the laws around this kind of thing are even crazier. You get zero due process there. They can simply remove you from the country if they even suspect you've engaged in such terrible things as being a foreigner in Mexico who participated in any way in a political or social movement or who bought any property in Mexico without the expressed consent of the government. No trial, no judge, just jail and/or GTFO and you're barred for life.

      So you'll excuse me for laughing at this outpouring of horror over one of the most tame immigration laws in the region. Arizona took US Federal law, added a ton of protections to ensure legal residents aren't bothered, and is now somehow the devil. Meanwhile, US immigration authorities blatantly harass the Hell out of US citizens and other legal residents day-in and day-out with vastly more power and authority than any person or group should have and yet somehow Arizona has passed some terrible racist xenophobic thing.

      When I see you people protesting Mexican immigration law and US Federal immigration law, I'll start to believe that maybe you're serious. Otherwise, I just can't bring myself to care.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    72. Re:The TSA needs to be stopped by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The law forbids it. But what's the punishment for the police if they violate the law? Oh, nothing? Then in practice, the law allows it.

  6. It make sense (for a change) by nickovs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you are going to check something at a checkpoint then it makes sense to stochastically sample with secondary checks to test your error rate. Apparently the TSA believe that there is a reason to limit the liquids through airport checkpoints and screen those liquids that they do allow through. Irrespective of if this is itself a rational position, if you believe that it is then it is also rational to check randomly sample liquids after the checkpoint.

    --
    If intelligent life is too complex to evolve on its own, who designed God?
    1. Re:It make sense (for a change) by wvmarle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you are going to check something at a checkpoint then it makes sense to stochastically sample with secondary checks to test your error rate.

      This may be true in general, but not for this situation. Checking your error rate with such random checks works only if the number of items making it through is big enough. If nothing comes through, or what makes it through is only a very small percentage of the total, you have a big chance to miss that one offending item when you do your random checking.

      Here we're talking about chances literally in the order of one in a billion, if not one in ten billion. The chance that someone brings a bottle of explosive liquids to an airport checkpoint is simply that small - actually afaik no-one ever really tried to bring explosive liquids through an airport checkpoint.

      So the chance that someone will bring such an item to your airport is extremely small. So basically on normal days, as in well any day actually, there is nothing to detect. Your "non-toxic test liquid" may as well be plain water as the test is going to be negative anyway. It's total and utter nonsense. Testing liquids people have bought in the restricted area, and that they are drinking at the same time, makes even less sense. It's hard to imagine that an explosive liquid would make for a good drink.

    2. Re:It make sense (for a change) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are going to check something at a checkpoint then it makes sense to stochastically sample with secondary checks to test your error rate.

      TFS explains that it is not limited to 'secondary checks' of liquids that have gone through the checkpoint, but also drinks that were purchased at stores inside the gate.

    3. Re:It make sense (for a change) by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      If you are going to check something at a checkpoint then it makes sense to stochastically sample with secondary checks to test your error rate

      There is an infinite well of liquids avaliable for purchase after the security line. Before it the ban on liquids is universal.

      How does "stochastically sample" provide any useful feedback on what liquids are being let thru given these constraints? Your argument is not rational let alone the actions of the TSA.

    4. Re:It make sense (for a change) by Loki_1929 · · Score: 1

      If the TSA actually believes what they're doing today increases security and doesn't impede liberty, we've got even bigger problems. I choose to believe that the people at the top of the TSA know their policies are ineffective and violate the rights of Americans because the alternative is so much more dangerous.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    5. Re:It make sense (for a change) by metacell · · Score: 1

      I've never heard of an actual case where someone tried to bring explosive liquids on board a plane, either. The searches seem to be based entirely on hypothetical scenarios.

    6. Re:It make sense (for a change) by metacell · · Score: 1

      According to a Swedish former minister, the head of the American Homeland Security admitted the identity checks on international flights were pointless, since a terrorist could just travel via Canada instead.

    7. Re:It make sense (for a change) by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      No, it doesn't make sense. They are only checking liquids that are in plain sight, they aren't rechecking bags. If you managed to sneak some explosives past the TSA checkpoint, do you think you're going to be walking around with it out in the open or will it be hidden away in your luggage?

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    8. Re:It make sense (for a change) by pipedwho · · Score: 1

      On top of that, since they are testing liquids being consumed in plain sight, they are selecting the most likely samples to be negative. So the probability of a positive match is further reduced by a factor of thousands/millions.

      Dividing zero by anything is still zero, so it doesn't make any difference to security anyway. But I suppose it does keep up appearances.

      Think of it like a security theatre encore performance. Just don't bow to low, or they might take your action of bending over as implicit consent for a back door cavity search.

    9. Re:It make sense (for a change) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's hard to imagine that an explosive liquid would make for a good drink.

      I like my alcohol 160 proof in a spray can, you insensitive clod!

    10. Re:It make sense (for a change) by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_transatlantic_aircraft_plot#Liquid_explosives
      It seems the underwear bomber also had some part of his bomb as liquid, but the details elude me.

    11. Re:It make sense (for a change) by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      The ban on liquids was instated after the first instance I linked to, IIRC.

      Sorry for the double answer.

    12. Re:It make sense (for a change) by metacell · · Score: 2

      But it was on the planning stage, and they never got so far as to try to bring the explosives on board. According to many experts, it's unlikely to have worked (Bruce Schneier).

    13. Re:It make sense (for a change) by coofercat · · Score: 1

      I'll just interject with an anecdote...

      Years ago, a buddy of mine and I went to Canada on holiday. Flight prices were lowest if we flew via the US. He joked with me on arrival at Heathrow airport that he's "the one that always gets searched" (the US section of the airport always had extra security theatre over the rest of International). Unfortunately, he was right. He got searched (ie. empty pockets, pat down, someone looking in his bag) three times between arriving at the airport and getting on the plane. He also got searched going through the airport in the US (in both directions). All this in addition to xray-ing his bag and walking through the metal detector (which he didn't set off).

      Just looking at Heathrow, I concluded that at least two of the three searches must have been incompetent. Surely there's only a need to search him once, unless the first guy was incompetent and missed something.

      The other curious thing I realised was that should I ever become so-inclined to want to carry some sort of contraband onto an aeroplane, all I need to do is go to the airport with this guy. I didn't get searched (or even spoken to - much less questioned or ID'ed or whatever) at all in any airport (apart from the usual xray/metal detector). I could have happily carried the contraband while my buddy ran diversion for me.

    14. Re:It make sense (for a change) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... So suppose you check 1% of the liquids AFTER the checkpoint. What can you expect to find?

      Suppose that once a year you find an explosive liquid at those checks. That means that 99 times per year, an airplane blows up because of those explosive liquids..... If you want to check how many explosive liquids you've missed, just watch the news for blown-up airplanes.

    15. Re:It make sense (for a change) by IcyHando'Death · · Score: 1

      Measuring the effectiveness of the screening procedures means measuring how often the items being screened make it through. In this case, that means any containers with > 3 oz of liquid, irrespective of their explosive nature.

    16. Re:It make sense (for a change) by cusco · · Score: 1

      You can even buy bottles of highly flammable 151 proof rum in the duty-free stores. I knew someone with some really horrible burns from spilling some on his hand and cigarette.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    17. Re:It make sense (for a change) by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      If the underwear bomber did use liquid explosives, that is an example of someone trying. He also failed, illustrating that it is hard, probably to the point where it makes no sense to screen for it.

    18. Re:It make sense (for a change) by metacell · · Score: 1

      It seems he had a syringe with liquid explosives to set off the main charge.
      http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/underwear-bomber

    19. Re:It make sense (for a change) by niftymitch · · Score: 1

      There is a wide range of liquid nasty out there.

      The underwear bomber may not have had a working plan
      as metacell notes but the risk of liquid explosives including binary agents
      is quite real. Some are difficult to detect and the variety
      implies that simple testing is not possible.

      One possibly positive consideration is that they are difficult to make and test.
      They are mostly unstable making them difficult to deliver. At
      least that is what one armed Lefty tells me.

      --
      Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
  7. next step by gale+the+simple · · Score: 1

    based on the rationalization mentioned in the article: random colonoscopy at some point before the security check point may be introduced because... no one will expect it... brilliant...

    cryst

    --
    This post is provided without warranty as to reliability, accuracy or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose.
    1. Re:next step by similar_name · · Score: 1

      They'll just say the policy has been in place for years so there's no reason to make a big deal out of it.

    2. Re:next step by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Obligatory Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy quote:

      "But Mr. Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months."

      "Oh yes, well, as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything."

      "But the plans were on display..."

      "On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

      "That's the display department."

      "With a flashlight."

      "Ah, well, the lights had probably gone."

      "So had the stairs."

      "But look, you found the notice, didn't you?"

      "Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display on the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.’"

      —Douglas Adams

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    3. Re:next step by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Another quote of Adams' is: " The president’s job ... is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." I wonder sometimes, especially with stories like this, what is our attention being drawn away from?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    4. Re:next step by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      I wonder sometimes, especially with stories like this, what is our attention being drawn away from?

      If you are wondering this, then I think it is working perfectly. Sigh.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  8. NO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NO!

  9. Random swabbing by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The real reason for this is to make you, the idiot public, feel safe by having some random person in a uniform approach you and proceed to do something vaguely scientific-looking while assuring you that you're very safe here. See, you're safe because we're doing this thing of dubious value, but we're dressed in uniforms that command authority.

    If you want to see this first hand, dress up in a suit, wear an official-looking nametag (it needs to have a BIG official-looking gold seal on it) covered in laminate, and then walk around a commercial building telling people what to do. Tell them men's room is closed and everyone has to use the women's (or vice versa). Stand in front of an elevator and tell people it's out of order (even as people exit from right behind you). Now, take it to Troll Level 99 by getting a couple of your friends involved in it: Come up with something completely outrageous (claim you're an USDA food inspector and need to look at anyone carrying a sandwich while in front of a cafe), and make sure your friends agree to do whatever you're doing. Then demand the same of other random people. Take a bite out of their sandwich and then tell them it's "acceptable" and let them go. You can have one of your friends object, at which point you eat the entire sandwich and treaten to write them a citation for interfering in official inspector business.

    You'd be surprised just how far you can take it. I mean, you can basically rob someone of everything they own, and as long as other people are complicit to allow it, they'll just fold in like a deck of cards. No. I really mean it. But don't do it since it's unethical. But they do, they really do. :(

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:Random swabbing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The funny thing is... most people would be too idiotic to figure out what you're alluding to. They would just think you're another nut; a "false" authority figure. The real authority figures are the good guys!

    2. Re:Random swabbing by Larryish · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To the tune of Lee Greenwood's "God Bless the U.S.A.":

      I was born in America,
      Where I'm often told I'm free.
      And I voted for the pice of shit,
      Who told that lie to me.
      And I'll prick my finger,
      Next to you,
      At the all-you-can-eat buffet.
      I can't afford to move abroad;
      Trapped in the U.S.A.

    3. Re:Random swabbing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I believe there is a movie about this phenomenon playing in some theaters right now

      http://www.avclub.com/articles/compliance,83906/

    4. Re:Random swabbing by cpu6502 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >>>If you want to see this first hand, dress up in a suit, wear an official-looking nametag (it needs to have a BIG official-looking gold seal on it) covered in laminate

      I saw this on a plane recently. As I was getting off I put on my workbadge, since I knew I was going directly to my job. When I said "excuse me" people looked at my badge and said, "Oh certainly sir" or "yes sir" and let me get past them in the aisle. My seat was close to the rear, but by using this technique I ended-up as one of the first persons off the plane.

      That wasn't part of my original plan, but just happened to work out.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    5. Re:Random swabbing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try putting on a reflective vest and steel-toed boots, maybe a construction hat. People will let you go ANYWHERE. I've occasionally had to do this legitimately for field work and people will let you walk through their homes, yards, wherever. I was even allowed onto a military base where (I found out after-the-fact) you're not supposed to be allowed on without significant prior communication and clearance.

    6. Re:Random swabbing by dbIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've got into a couple of power stations, a fertilizer works and an oil refinery that way. Due to various stuffups the proper way to get valid ID each time was to enter the places and then get the ID inside, of course going past the gaurd on the gate whose job is to stop people without the ID. I'm not sure whether it was entirely due to the work clothes or due to the Kafkaesque situation where proper channels were blocked so the gaurds just let everyone in to avoid the hassle.

    7. Re:Random swabbing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's idiotic, no one would obey directions like that without... oh, wait.

    8. Re:Random swabbing by cusco · · Score: 1

      The biggest problem with security isn't the hardware or the software, it's always the wetware. You can get into almost any building if you approach a door around shift change or lunch time when there's a lot of traffic by wearing some sort of construction uniform and carrying a ladder in one hand and a tool bag in the other. Maybe tuck a box or something under an arm for good measure. People will not only badge the door for you but they'll even hold it open.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    9. Re:Random swabbing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real reason for this is to make you, the idiot public, feel safe by having some random person in a uniform approach you and proceed to do something vaguely scientific-looking while assuring you that you're very safe here. See, you're safe because we're doing this thing of dubious value, but we're dressed in uniforms that command authority.

      If you want to see this first hand, dress up in a suit, wear an official-looking nametag (it needs to have a BIG official-looking gold seal on it) covered in laminate, and then walk around a commercial building telling people what to do. Tell them men's room is closed and everyone has to use the women's (or vice versa). Stand in front of an elevator and tell people it's out of order (even as people exit from right behind you). Now, take it to Troll Level 99 by getting a couple of your friends involved in it: Come up with something completely outrageous (claim you're an USDA food inspector and need to look at anyone carrying a sandwich while in front of a cafe), and make sure your friends agree to do whatever you're doing. Then demand the same of other random people. Take a bite out of their sandwich and then tell them it's "acceptable" and let them go. You can have one of your friends object, at which point you eat the entire sandwich and treaten to write them a citation for interfering in official inspector business.

      You'd be surprised just how far you can take it. I mean, you can basically rob someone of everything they own, and as long as other people are complicit to allow it, they'll just fold in like a deck of cards. No. I really mean it. But don't do it since it's unethical. But they do, they really do. :(

      This is where standard operating procedures come into play, and where your statement Fails. Listen clear.
      This is the problem with you folks. Trolling such a pedant subject, and provoking authority to arrest you all because you think that this country is totalitarian. Get a fackin grip. O_o
      And If someone were to considering doing this as a troll operation, they would be detained for impersonating a government official. This is not something "unethical". Its an actual law thats being broken. Thats why ya dont do it. Provoking authority when ya know there is an ordinance, and acting completely ignorant to it is the absurdity that has grown WAY too large in society. Its disrespectful and juvenile. (eyeroll)

    10. Re:Random swabbing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and second. As far as SOP... Its hyperbole to think that this agency will actually consider to chomp on your food. Its hyperbole all over this idea that an agency like this would actually assume they can do such.
      This is what your ideas are based on. "trollololooololawl", and it helps no one but to put your ass in prison for being stupid.

  10. How do you know it's a TSA agent? by hawguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How do you know it's a TSA agent dripping a strange liquid into your drink and not a crazy guy dripping a slow acting poison or virus that won't be noticed until hours later after hundreds of people come down with a strange affliction all across the country?

    Even if you demand to see ID first (is the TSA agent obligated to show ID upon request?), how many people know what a TSA badge is really supposed to look like?

    1. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by scorp1us · · Score: 0

      Because the other TSA agents presumably WOULD know.

      --
      Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    2. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by Altus · · Score: 2

      LSD might be fun, plane full of dosed travelers!

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    3. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by Githaron · · Score: 1

      If a suicidal terrorist really wanted to terrorized a population, they would intentionally catch Ebola and go through an airport, train station, or to a densely populated public event. Afterward, everyone would be afraid to go out into public. Anyone could be an unwitting agent of a terrorist plot.

    4. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by hawguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because the other TSA agents presumably WOULD know.

      Would they? How long would it take to discover the rogue TSA agent? If TSA tactics are always changing and no one knows what's real and what isn't, maybe the bad guy would have time to visit all the patrons of an airport restaraunt and infect their drinks before slipping away unnoticed.

      Or maybe the bad guy is a real TSA agent and slips the virus into another agent's vial, and that agent goes around infecting people without even knowing it.

      Or, to really spread terror, the bad guy can just dump a TSA uniform and some testing vial half full of Anthrax (or whatever can be transmitted though liquids) in an airport restroom where it will be discovered. Then TSA won't know how many people may have been infected.

      Do it in more than one airport and they won't even know how many airports it happened in.

      The bad guy doesn't actually have to do anything bad to shut down air travel nationwide - just dump some clothes and a vial in a restroom stall.

      This is where TSA's security theater could come back to bite them - when they rely on so much showmanship, all it takes is a different kind of showman to make them look incompetent. No amount of TSA spin is going to help when news crews are in several different airports across the country showing discarded TSA uniforms and speculating about what could have been going on. And if TSA suddenly announces "We will no longer be testing liquids", people will wonder why they were testing them in the first place if they can suddenly stop testing them.

    5. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by zcomuto · · Score: 1

      You could say the same about any fairly unsecured transport network. There's countless bridges, buses, trains and stations worldwide that could cause a massive loss of life and there's virtually no security bar some token "No unaccompanied bags" notices. I suppose we should just be thankful that terrorists are not actually intelligent enough to figure it out.

      The unfortunate truth of the matter is that whilst the threat of terrorism perhaps doesn't scare everyone, it certainly inconveniences everyone. Time is money, and the simple fact that these security precautions cost lots of it are helping them to win.

    6. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by jamesh · · Score: 1

      How do you know it's a TSA agent dripping a strange liquid into your drink and not a crazy guy dripping a slow acting poison or virus that won't be noticed until hours later after hundreds of people come down with a strange affliction all across the country?

      Maybe that's what the TSA is protecting you against... fake agents poisoning your drinks. I suspect it's more likely that they are protecting the vendors against people bringing in their own drinks and thus stealing revenue off them.

      Even if you demand to see ID first (is the TSA agent obligated to show ID upon request?), how many people know what a TSA badge is really supposed to look like?

      One easy way to find out - refuse the test. If your refusal results in an anal probe, it probably was a real TSA agent.

    7. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      "its not poison, its just bad government"

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    8. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suppose we should just be thankful that terrorists are not actually intelligent enough to figure it out.

      I cannot but assume terrorist are smart enough to figure that out. Because I think they can't be that stupid, it has to mean there really aren't any terrorist hellbent on causing civilian casualties. That means most of the security theatre is absolutely unnecessary.

    9. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by synapse7 · · Score: 1

      I would tell the agent to keep the drink and I would get another.

    10. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I'm reminded of that line about theatrics and escalation from the end of Batman Begins. I think the only thing keeping us from seeing a wave of "terrorist theatrics" is their fanatical obsession with killing people. They aren't going to go for a complex, flashy, inspires-fear-without-actually-causing-harm scheme when they could just blow up some folks instead. A terrorist is less likely to sneak some Anthrax and a TSA uniform into an airport bathroom and more likely to blow themselves up in a busy airport security check line. In fact, a few terrorists doing this in choice airports at choice times could (at least temporarily) shut down all air travel. After all, how do you security check people on the line before they get to the security checkpoint?

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    11. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Just as long as it isn't pot. Plane full of passengers with the munchies and all you have are those little bags of peanuts?!!!

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    12. Re:How do you know it's a TSA agent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      all it takes is a different kind of showman to make them look incompetent.

      I'll have you know that the TSA does an excellent job of looking incompetent on their own, thankyouverymuch.

  11. What is the TSA for anyway? by MacAndrew · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've had a sneaking suspicion that the TSA is a stealth jobs program for the otherwise unemployable. It's not so much the intrusive searches and so on as the STUPIDITY of their measures (how are four small bottles of liquid different from one large bottle?). As a game I stand in line at the checkpoints daydreaming about all the ways I could sneak things through—ideas that I won't share because it appears that terrorists are generally, thank goodness, even dumber than the gatekeepers. Many critics have already dissected their policies, e.g., http://www.schneier.com/ It's just too easy.

    Terrorism is a very serious problem that can get people killed. So is the TSA.

    1. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Just wondering. Not that I can vote in your country or so, but I hear a lot about it in the news and so about your upcoming presidential elections. This Mitt Romney, hasn't he promised to create something like 12 million jobs or so? I don't recall the exact number but it was pretty much the same as the number of registered unemployed in the US. Quite impressive a promise. I always wondered how he's going to create those jobs. Just nicely asking companies to hire more people usually doesn't work very well.

      Now what is his stand on the TSA? Being a republican candidate I'd guess he's all for expanding the TSA in his to-be-smaller government. Could be a way to fulfil that promise.

    2. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've had a sneaking suspicion that the TSA is a stealth jobs program for the otherwise unemployable.

      Oh, they're employable. It doesn't take a genius to pick up trash on the side of the road, to ride on the truck that paints the white stripe along the edge and scream when it runs out of paint, to drive a truck that picks up brush from people's yards, etc. There are plenty of things that our government *needs* to be doing that could be done with pretty much the same people for the same amount of money, yet our government feels the need to piss away our hard-earned tax dollars on these agents of compulsory obsequiousness instead.

      At this point, I think the TSA's main purpose is to ensure a servile working class that is too broken to care about how much they're being screwed by the aristocracy, all while using propagandistic techniques to convince them that it is for their own good.

    3. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've had a sneaking suspicion that the TSA is a stealth jobs program for the otherwise unemployable.

      You assume incorrectly. The marginally employable in this country are those who are any/all of the following: under the age of 25, over the age of 65, overweight, physically disabled, have a criminal record (this one overshadows all the rest combined except age), lack a degree/diploma of any kind, or do not speak english fluently. The TSA's hiring criterion specifically disqualify most of the people in the former categories; You can't have a criminal record, you need to be physically fit enough to stand on your feet for an 8 hour shift, and you need to speak english fluently. I believe they also required a high school diploma or GED -- and unlike most other employers, they will check.

      It's not so much the intrusive searches and so on as the STUPIDITY of their measures (how are four small bottles of liquid different from one large bottle?).

      You assume that the reason for the intrusive searches and 'stupid' measures are to improve security. They aren't. They're there to make the passengers feel safe. All of these searches and measures are highly visible (there are no privacy shields for most of their activities -- they prefer it be in public view), obvious, and very visually-orientated. It is quite literally theatre. The phrase "security theatre" describes what they're doing perfectly; they are actors on a stage, and you are the audience. The polls have consistently shown people support these procedures; It has broad public support. Articles like this are a tempest in a teapot; the general public simply doesn't care about those things. They may agree with everything the article states, but they'll quite happily keep right on doing it because it makes them feel safer.

      And that, my friend, is all the TSA offers: A feeling of security.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    4. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Terrorism is a very serious problem that can get people killed. So is the TSA.

      The 9/11 attacks caused roughly 3,000 deaths .
      Most years other than 2001 apparantly resulted in less than 1,000 lifes lost globally (though 5-6 times as many people tend to get wounded)
      Lifes lost globally to plane crashes ~1,000 to 1,500 per year
      The total number of lifes lost to traffic accidents last year in the US was about 33,000
      Deaths caused in the US by pneumonia in 2009: about 51,000

      Don't just take the accuracy of those numbers for granted.
      Please go take a few minutes and search for statistics. Educate yourself about the numbers and how they were determined.

      Then please tell us whether or not you still consider terrorism to be a serious problem.
      Do you still believe the risks were so great ? Do you still consider your lost liberties as acceptable costs for that safety ?

      tl;dr; Get a fucking perspective.

    5. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by MacAndrew · · Score: 1

      Ah, but you assume too much. I'm sorry, the TSA people I've interacted with may have had high school degrees but were hardly the alpha cut. As for TSA as theater: agreed. That was my point, the actual level of security provided is very little.

    6. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, just because the attack hasn't happened doesn't mean terrorist attacks don't happen. If the TSA is a joke, if no safetry has been gained (true), no matter how good sacrificed civil liberties make you feel deep down inside, it's just a matter of time.

    7. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      Ah, but you assume too much. I'm sorry, the TSA people I've interacted with may have had high school degrees but were hardly the alpha cut. As for TSA as theater: agreed. That was my point, the actual level of security provided is very little.

      I don't assume anything. I contracted with the TSA when they hired their first batch of airport screeners -- my primary job responsibilities supported their hiring process. I can't disclose details, but this isn't assumption or "I read it online" -- this is "I was there" knowledge. And whatever you think of the screeners' intelligence level, I can assure you that they were all given a standardized test and receive regular training and testing for their entire career. Their IQ is a meaningless metric to their supervisors -- as long as they can follow procedure without deviation, they could have had their brain replaced with a toilet scrubber and they'd still keep their job.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    8. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by MacAndrew · · Score: 1

      Well, last shot: I didn't mean IQ, whatever IQ is, and I certainly never mentioned it. I meant competency and the ability to think independently. For one thing the "first batch" of screeners was probably different from the second, third, fourth etc. batches; at least in the beginning they were pretending TSA was something new. It could be a training failure or poor policy limiting personnel but—whatever the cause—I am NOT comforted by what I have seen that air travel is even a hamster's breath safer than it was before 9/11. Procedure is never enough, and the phenomenally stupid questions I have been asked by security do not suggest much more is being added. Some of the workers may be fabulous, but it doesn't save the program; too many are not.

      Now, a toilet scrubber. I think you've hit on something there. How tragic that would even occur to you in connection with what is a very important job.

    9. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Terrorism is a very serious problem that can get people killed. So is the TSA.

      The 9/11 attacks caused roughly 3,000 deaths .
      Most years other than 2001 apparantly resulted in less than 1,000 lifes lost globally (though 5-6 times as many people tend to get wounded)
      Lifes lost globally to plane crashes ~1,000 to 1,500 per year
      The total number of lifes lost to traffic accidents last year in the US was about 33,000
      Deaths caused in the US by pneumonia in 2009: about 51,000

      Don't just take the accuracy of those numbers for granted.
      Please go take a few minutes and search for statistics. Educate yourself about the numbers and how they were determined.

      Then please tell us whether or not you still consider terrorism to be a serious problem.
      Do you still believe the risks were so great ? Do you still consider your lost liberties as acceptable costs for that safety ?

      tl;dr; Get a fucking perspective.

      Of course the problem with quoting these statistics is that they are one-sided and it's impossible to know how many terrorist attacks have been thwarted by TSA. Some in the government may have some idea, but they aren't talking. Maybe the TSA stopped 10 attacks and saved thousands of lives in the past month alone. It's this uncertainty that makes people willing to tolerate TSA -- they think "Well yeah, it's inconvenient but they must be effective, there haven't been any successful attacks recently"

    10. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      Of course the problem with quoting these statistics is that they are one-sided and it's impossible to know how many terrorist attacks have been thwarted by TSA. Some in the government may have some idea, but they aren't talking. Maybe the TSA stopped 10 attacks and saved thousands of lives in the past month alone. It's this uncertainty that makes people willing to tolerate TSA -- they think "Well yeah, it's inconvenient but they must be effective, there haven't been any successful attacks recently"

      Yea bullshit it is all about fear. The feedback loop from TSA security measures themselves coupled with endless stream of media attention to terrorists taking over the world lead people to think there is a terror1st boogie man under every bed.

      There are NO rational calculations being made.

    11. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by petman · · Score: 1

      What was the rate of death from terrorism before the TSA was created? Did the numbers decrease? If not, we can conclude that the TSA is not effective.

    12. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      (how are four small bottles of liquid different from one large bottle?)

      Because four bottles can hold the components of a binary liquid explosive, whereas one big bottle can't.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    13. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's also about funnelling money to private security companies, with the help of lobbying and an ignorant and scared public.

    14. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 9/11 attacks caused roughly 3,000 deaths .
      Most years other than 2001 apparantly resulted in less than 1,000 lifes lost globally (though 5-6 times as many people tend to get wounded)

      And most of the terrorist attacks after 2001 occurred in countries the USA had invaded, as a way to strike back against the occupying force. That's why the number of terrorist attacks *increased* sharply after the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

    15. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by metacell · · Score: 1

      Of course the problem with quoting these statistics is that they are one-sided and it's impossible to know how many terrorist attacks have been thwarted by TSA. Some in the government may have some idea, but they aren't talking. Maybe the TSA stopped 10 attacks and saved thousands of lives in the past month alone.

      This is false, since the authorities DO talk about attacks they've stopped before they came to the public's attention. And why wouldn't they? The terrorists already know they've been stopped, and by letting the public know, they authorities justify their own existence.

      This has happened a few times in Europe. But the attacks have always been stopped by traditional investigative work, not by airport screenings or other measures added after 9/11 2001.

    16. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by ZosX · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Also, there are so many vectors for terrorist attack that if they really wanted to blow things up in america and cause massive death and destruction, there would be little in the way to actually stop someone that is rather determined.

    17. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      you can swap religion for TSA, in your post, and a lot of it maps just as well.

      people want security that makes them FEEL good. TSA gives them warm fuzzies and so does religion.

      surprisingly, give people that and they'll be mostly compliant. alternate word: controlled and kept in their place.

      if more people only knew how they were being played. its so sad to see what those in control are doing to us all. and that most of us can't or won't see it.

      security theater or promise of 'heaven'. both are there to keep you calm and neither are reality-based.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    18. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Stealth? It looks like it's obviously the case from here even on the other side of an ocean. It's become a huge welfare organisation channelling cash into the right pockets (eg. the Rapidscan stuff where it doesn't matter if the machines work just if the millions get paid).

    19. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      high school degrees

      I find that terminology disturbing and it explains a lot about US anti-intellectualism if it is common. If everyone is "special" then who is going to listen to the people that put in more than a mediocre effort in life?
      Please note I'm not trying to shoot the messenger who is merely relaying a very depressingly inflated title. My own country has a few problems with anti-intellectualism (naturopaths considered as good as surgeons etc) as well.

    20. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      He is just a robot overlord.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    21. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by fatphil · · Score: 1

      Probably Stansted (UK), about 2 years ago - we're all clustered in a security queue. Some guy from the back comes forward from the back, nobody saw where, and hands over a 500ml can of "beer" to one of the securidroids and says "I won't be able to take that through will I?", and then he darts back out of sight again. She takes it and drops it in the plastic office bin at her feet.

      I nearly shouted "that could be a fucking bomb!" *instinctively*. It reached my mouth, but not my vocal cords. If I wanted to terrorise a population, and injure or kill many dozens of people, doing what that guy did would be a great technique. To be honest, I don't know what stopped me from shouting anything out and bringing their "security" into question. Probably because I just wanted to get on my flight and go home. To be honest, I don't mind security. It's when the pretend security provides no actual security that I get narked. (Citibank asked my g/f "what are the last 4 digits of your SSN?" the other day as a "security" measure.)

      This airport event was 6 months before Domodedovo, I wasn't just twitchy because of that incident.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    22. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I skimmed my comment btw and realized I wasn't clear -- I meant TSA as a job program from top to bottom including bureaucrats. The screeners are the only ones I've interacted with, but I'm much more disapproving of the people setting the rules on how many little bottles we can carry. It's always the people on the front lines who get blamed, but there's plenty to go around.

    23. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      In a way, I wish they offered a feeling of security. When I go through the TSA checkpoints, "security" isn't what I'm feeling. Perhaps it's the blessing and curse of seeing through the security theater. Kind of like being the only one in the audience to see the wire when a magician "levitates" his assistant. Everyone else is ooh-ing and ahh-ing and you're sitting there thinking "The wire is right there on her back, people!"

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    24. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't assume anything. I contracted with the TSA when they hired their first batch of airport screeners -- my primary job responsibilities supported their hiring process. I can't disclose details, but this isn't assumption or "I read it online" -- this is "I was there" knowledge. And whatever you think of the screeners' intelligence level, I can assure you that they were all given a standardized test and receive regular training and testing for their entire career. Their IQ is a meaningless metric to their supervisors -- as long as they can follow procedure without deviation, they could have had their brain replaced with a toilet scrubber and they'd still keep their job.

      And yet TSA screeners have been frequently observed and reported to not know proper procedure, not receive adequate training, and to deviate from the Sensitive But Unclassified operating procedures to bully innocent millions.

    25. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I especially like is what you can buy in the terminal, after you passed all the checks:

      Deodorant, sprays, all kinds of things that as a kid i played with to burn ants and stuff. Everything you need to make a good firebomb is right there at the terminal.

    26. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I definitely don't "feel" secure around them. In one instance, when I was flying out of Philly, I overheard a comment between two agents that frightens me to this day. One said, "I didn't want this job, but the judge said it was either this or prison." Apparently, my safety is in the hands of a convicted criminal.

    27. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      They wouldn't even have to be rather determined. My favorite scenario would be a carry on roller bag filled with smokeless powder (legally and easily acquirable) and nails, ball bearings, or nuts detonated in a crowded area like an airport security line or mall (especially during the holiday shopping season). There is also the shooter with a semi-automatic handgun with a few clips in these same areas. If you want cheap and really you could always go and get a few mason jars and fill them with gasoline and shove a rag through a hole in the lid, light and toss in these same crowded areas. Anyone with the reasoning ability slightly greater than a toaster oven could come up with many other scenarios like this and pull them off. This should basically prove that there aren't any real terrorist threats to the US since we don't see people lobbing Molotov Cocktails onto unsuspecting shoppers from the upper levels of a mall.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    28. Re:What is the TSA for anyway? by freakmn · · Score: 1

      It seems that Romney would like to streamline the TSA. There was also a republican bill introduced last year to reduce the TSA. Not that Romney, or any politician is without faults, but making assumptions about positions leads to uneducated voting, which I think is why we're in the position we're in.

      --
      warning: This post is likely to contain gobs of dripping sarcasm. Consume at your own risk.
  12. FDA approved? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

    So they go around sticking test strips and liquid in peoples drinks. Sure it's perfectly safe we told you so. Has the FDA even approved it or is it super secret we cant let them know it does not work.

    --
    No sir I dont like it.
    1. Re:FDA approved? by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      So they go around sticking test strips and liquid in peoples drinks. Sure it's perfectly safe we told you so. Has the FDA even approved it or is it super secret we cant let them know it does not work.

      I think they are prevented them from sticking anything IN your drink it is some kind of pouring out deal from what I understand.

      Still bullshit GED recipients are allowed to randomly roam around bothering us as they please. What a bunch of assholes and what a bunch of loosers we are for tolerating this horse shit.

    2. Re:FDA approved? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still bullshit GED recipients are allowed to .... and what a bunch of loosers we are for tolerating this.....
       
        Oh the irony.

    3. Re:FDA approved? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      Well reducing the amount of liquid in the extra large gande venti whatever is probably not a bad thing. Still does absolutely nothing for security.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    4. Re:FDA approved? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still bullshit GED recipients are allowed to .... and what a bunch of loosers we are for tolerating this.....

      Oh the irony.

      Indeed... "recipients"

  13. Remember to hide your drinks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Keep your bottled drink in your carry-on bag, and don't remove it to drink it when TSA agents are roaming around.

    1. Re:Remember to hide your drinks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've reported you to the Glorious Department of Homeland Security for developing sophisticated detection evasion techniques and sharing them with other terrorists.

    2. Re:Remember to hide your drinks by cameloid · · Score: 1

      The "terrorists" have won, because you have changed your otherwise normal behaviour to comply with their un-American agenda.

      Make sure you don't refuse to drink anything they "test". If you decide to throw it away, then it's proof positive that the liquid in your cup was probably a dirty bomb. The fact that you're already in an airport will expedite your special rendition to Guantanamo Bay Internment Camp for "processing".

      What exactly are you guys afraid of?

      --
      -- Cisk for the Cisk God
  14. Human Intelligence? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I read a comment on one of the other sites carrying this story that the test itself was of minor interest to the TSA - instead the goal is to talk to more passengers in order to gain "human intelligence." To these cynical ears, that sounds like exactly the kind of half-baked plan the TSA would come up with. Somebody thought it would be a clever way for their "behaviour profilers" to have an excuse to "profile" people without obviously creeping them out.

    My personal experience is that I've flown once in the last 8 years, and the one time I did fly one of those TSA guys tried to talk me up while I was in line. It was uber-creepy - I spent the next hour trying to figure out if the guy was just naturally creepy or if he been trying "profile" me. Either way I did my best to say as little as possible to the guy and just get on past the checkpoint as quickly as possible. Talking up someone while you both wait a minute or two for the "test strip" to change color is probably going to be less obviously creepy. Still assinine and utterly ineffective, but less creepy.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    1. Re:Human Intelligence? by pipedwho · · Score: 1

      If that were the case, they'd be better off walking around with a clipboard asking people to answer a few questions on they rate their airport experience.

      You could pick the questions most likely to generate an effective response, rather than just the barely disguised, "I am going to intrude on your belongings, privacy, and personal space".

      But, I suppose the TSA don't care what people think, as no one is in a position to disagree with or ignore them.

  15. non-toxic test liquid by viperidaenz · · Score: 0

    Non toxic, as defined by the folks who blast "non-toxic" radiation at everyone going through their body scanners.

  16. Consider the security hole this does fill... by scorp1us · · Score: 3, Funny

    I really hate to defend the TSA but there is a legitimate infiltration vector that this does address - that employees beyond the checkpoint can being in substances and transfer them to passengers.

    Now, I do not defend their approach - that the passengers are the ones that get interfered with. The TSA should be working behind the scenes so that dangerous materials never get brought in by employees. Someone could slip some C4 onto a palette which gets passed along to the cashier then to the traveler. Then at another store picks up the detonator, then assembles it all on the plane.

    I have no idea what security there is on getting stuff into airports, I figure it's got to be nearly impossible to adequately screen everything. .

    And another thing is that you wouldn't put C4 into coffee, you'd put it on the bottom of the cup in that little area created by the seam. Of course, a coffee cup is the last place. You could just cram it in a hollowed out book. You'd fit way more.

    So the other give away here is that they are after a liquid threat, and we already know there are no liquid threats capable of being produced in mid-air, or on the ground without raising a lot of suspicion. It'd have to be pre-packaged.

    Someone somewhere must have gotten some intel about this vector.

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    1. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by DavidRawling · · Score: 1
      Darn, I was with you all the way until we got to your last assumption:

      Someone somewhere must have gotten some intel about this vector.

      Intel? At the TSA? Not going to happen (aka "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here").

    2. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by zill · · Score: 1

      Why would the terrorists go through all that trouble? Just book first class and use the complimentary metal knifes. The 9/11 guys didn't need any fancy schmancy liquid explosives; all they used was just knifes.

    3. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by raehl · · Score: 1

      Have you ever flown first class?

      Nobody in first class is scared of the dull stick that the airline attempts to pass off as a "knife".

    4. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by chrismcb · · Score: 2

      I really hate to defend the TSA but there is a legitimate infiltration vector that this does address - that employees beyond the checkpoint can being in substances and transfer them to passengers

      If an employee is going to bring in explosives disguised as a bottle of water, the person who will explode the device won't be walking around the terminal drinking from said bottle of water. They will stick the bottle in their carryon and move on.
      The TSA does NOTHING to stopping anyone but a layperson.

    5. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Have you ever flown first class?

      Nobody in first class is scared of the dull stick that the airline attempts to pass off as a "knife".

      If you want to bring in a knife, bring in a ceramic blade tucked inside your DSLR or video camera body and they'll never see it on the x-ray.

      Not that it matters, a blade or box cutter is no longer sufficient to bring down a plane - the pilots aren't opening the door no matter how many passengers you kill or injure. If you want to take down the plane you'll need a different method, which is what the TSA is trying to prevent.

      Of course, it's an impossible task because TSA is protecting against known attacks, and it's the novel and previously unknown attack that will eventually slip by.

    6. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Have you ever flown first class?

      Nobody in first class is scared of the dull stick that the airline attempts to pass off as a "knife".

      If you want to bring in a knife, bring in a ceramic blade tucked inside your DSLR or video camera body and they'll never see it on the x-ray.

      Not that it matters, a blade or box cutter is no longer sufficient to bring down a plane - the pilots aren't opening the door no matter how many passengers you kill or injure. If you want to take down the plane you'll need a different method, which is what the TSA is trying to prevent.

      Of course, it's an impossible task because TSA is protecting against known attacks, and it's the novel and previously unknown attack that will eventually slip by.

      The worst effect of TSA and other USA security is that I actually hesitated before posting this, wondering if this was going to earn me a visit from a team of agents to question why I'm distributing information that could help a terrorist (even though I know deep down that something that I thought of in 2 minutes in my livingroom is not going to be useful information to someone who's actually planning an attack), maybe even get me on a no-fly list.

      So much for living in the home of the free where free speech is highly valued -- the government has made citizens afraid to exercise free speech because appearing on a secret blacklist can cause extreme inconvenience. A visit to your workplace by government agents regardless of the ultimate outcome can be very detrimental to one's career.

    7. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The worst effect of TSA and other USA security is that I actually hesitated before posting this, wondering if this was going to earn me a visit from a team of agents to question why I'm distributing information that could help a terrorist (even though I know deep down that something that I thought of in 2 minutes in my livingroom is not going to be useful information to someone who's actually planning an attack), maybe even get me on a no-fly list.

      So much for living in the home of the free where free speech is highly valued -- the government has made citizens afraid to exercise free speech because appearing on a secret blacklist can cause extreme inconvenience. A visit to your workplace by government agents regardless of the ultimate outcome can be very detrimental to one's career.

      Wake the fuck up man. Freedom is NOT free.

      Listening to you act like a little fucking coward when real men fight and die in wars for their country makes me want to hurl.

      So what if you get placed on a no fly list or some spook comes to razz you? Sue them, make a stink about it. Donate to your representives re-election campaign. Don't just sit there and tolerate effective abgrigation of your right to protected speech.

      Sincerly,
      Anonymous Coward

    8. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by metacell · · Score: 1

      I really hate to defend the TSA but there is a legitimate infiltration vector that this does address - that employees beyond the checkpoint can being in substances and transfer them to passengers.

      Still doesn't make much sense to me -- surely it must be easier and safer to screen all the staff and deliveries *before* they enter the airport, than going around and randomly scan drinks after they've been bought by customers.

    9. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by ZekeSpeak · · Score: 2

      I really hate to defend the TSA but there is a legitimate infiltration vector that this does address - that employees beyond the checkpoint can being in substances and transfer them to passengers

      The simple solution is to put the employees through the same process as the passengers. Everyone who enters the area gets the same security treatment, even the head of Airport Security. This is much simpler than randomly accosting passengers in the departure lounge. Wouldn't it be safer to not disturb the passengers even further?

      I struck an annoyance similar to this in Manila Airport. Once we were through the security checks, scanning, frisking, etc we were herded into a roped off area only after again having our baggage and ourselves scanned and frisked, etc. This was because we were going to Australia, apparently.

      Jet travel is stressful enough without these extra annoyances. Make a secure area and scan everyone who passes in through the barrier once only. It would be nice to wear lace-up shoes again while travelling by air

    10. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Darn, I was with you all the way until we got to your last assumption:

      Someone somewhere must have gotten some intel about this vector.

      Intel? At the TSA? Not going to happen (aka "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here").

      This "someone somewhere" is not necessarily within the TSA. Correct me if I'm wrong but my impression is that the TSA is the agency that's basically doing the security guard work, not an agency that's doing actual intelligence gathering related to potential threats.

    11. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      Someone somewhere must have gotten some intel about this vector.

      oh, so you're saying it was intel, inside?

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    12. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by cameloid · · Score: 1

      Then why not test the big vats of Diet Coke that are all nicely in one place at each of the restaurants and cafes?

      --
      -- Cisk for the Cisk God
    13. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by r00t · · Score: 1

      You could probably do the job with a battery-powered circular saw. Diamond saw blades don't look sharp.

    14. Re:Consider the security hole this does fill... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If an employee is going to bring in explosives disguised as a bottle of water, the person who will explode the device won't be walking around the terminal drinking from said bottle of water..

      Of course they would, it's the perfect cover!

  17. Way to improve post security gate food/drink sale? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if some TSA came by an drop checker and swabbed your drink getting whatever powder into your drink would it not cause the customers to throw the drink out then buy another one?

    Just a thought there. IDK but was thinking if it was a way to help boost up some sales post security gate. Who knows.

  18. Been there, done that by TClevenger · · Score: 2

    At Ontario airport over a year ago. We were lined up ready to board, and two fossils with a cart came up to us and then waited for the line to actually start to board the plane to start pulling people out to screen them. They used some kind of test strip and held it over my open bottle of water (I had drunk half of it while they watched), stuck it in a machine, and then a few seconds later, moved on to the next guy.

    They didn't bother to check my backpack, where I had two other bottles of water I had bought from the same shop.

    1. Re:Been there, done that by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 2

      Terrorists would obviously have their explosives on display, and would sip from them. Same with knives, which us why a couple of friends have repeatedly made it through screening with knives in their carry-on. Real terrorists would carry knives prominently.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    2. Re:Been there, done that by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 1

      You should have drunk it completely, just to see their reaction.

    3. Re:Been there, done that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      did that. Got an extra screening of my belt and of my shoes.

    4. Re:Been there, done that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Terrorists would obviously have their explosives on display, and would sip from them. Same with knives, which us why a couple of friends have repeatedly made it through screening with knives in their carry-on. Real terrorists would carry knives prominently.

      I play with my Spider knife just opening and closing the blade over and over whilst staring intently into the crowd. Meanwhile, I hum to myself. ;)

  19. TSA? by kwerle · · Score: 1

    While it's fun for everyone to bitch about the TSA, what is it doing here on /. ?

    1. Re:TSA? by Penurious+Penguin · · Score: 1

      While it's fun for everyone to bitch about the TSA, what is it doing here on /. ?

      Seething, heaving, spuming in final gasps for liberty in a foul sea of glorified retardation, ridiculous restrictions and centrally-sanctioned security-cretins with clinical fetishes for your undergarments, unavailing revulsions and personal fluids? My best guess, anyway.

      Oh yeah, I almost forgot: FSCK the TSA! -- Literally perhaps. I suspect they fear a rigorous audit more than foreplay.

      --
      Forward! -- Emperor Norton, 2012
    2. Re:TSA? by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Because some nerds travel, and care about this.

  20. Re:Way to improve post security gate food/drink sa by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually, I've been wondering if the whole "no drinks through security" rule was made at the request of the airport merchants who charge three dollars for a $0.30 bottle of water....

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  21. I mean this with all sincerity: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FUCK THE TSA.

    Seriously, these goons are on a power trip that would make the Wehrmacht proud. I've flown several times since 9/11, but only because I had no other alternative at the time (I even drove 17 hours straight to visit my girlfriend while she was in San Antonio, because I had enough time to actually be on the road). Each time I've flown, I've opted out of being irradiated in favor of a pat-down.

    Is it more invasive? Yes. Does it take longer than being scanned? Yes. Does it invonvenience them (even slightly) and force them to do more than just wave me through a machine? Yes. Does it make the screener uncomfortable? Hopefully that answer is also a yes. It's still useless and wrong, but I'm willing to give up a small bit of my dignity in order to make a point. I smile like an idiot during the entire pat-down these days.

    Be that as it may, I will have to say that the screeners I've encountered at Austin-Bergstrom and in Nashville have been 100% professional and polite about the process. The people shoving everyone else through the machines seemed annoyed at having to get said screeners to deal with me, but that's not my problem.

  22. funny by no-body · · Score: 1

    that this comes up now after supposedly 5 years being done. Did people all of a sudden get more sensitive to that BS? Doubtful.

  23. Easy access to your DNA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for submitting!

  24. Mind your betters! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Avert your eyes, plebes! It is forbidden to watch, discuss or criticize the patricians!

  25. Duh.... by raehl · · Score: 1

    He'll lower taxes on hedge fund managers so that... uh...

    shit, I don't know.

  26. Something to remember by Grayhand · · Score: 1

    All these "enhanced procedures haven't stopped a single terrorist. We are constantly inconvienenced and harassed all for nothing!!!! Even the shoe bomber was caught on the plane not before boarding. All this is for the illusion of safety and has nothing to do with stopping terrorists. Even the strip search X-rays haven't foiled a single terrorist plot. In ten years of microscopes up your rectum they can't point to a single case where the TSA has stopped a terrorist. Even with all the billions spent on new equipment and rights abused the actual terrorists are found before they get to the airport or on the plane itself not during check in. What is the value of the TSA? Zero, zip, nada unless you sell water and coffee in the post check in shops then they are a gold mine!!!

    1. Re:Something to remember by techno-vampire · · Score: 4, Insightful

      AFAICT the only thing all of these "security measures" do is get people used to the idea that they're subjects, not citizens and that the security forces can do whatever they want whenever they want to anybody they feel like. By the time most people realize we're turning into a police state it will be too late.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    2. Re:Something to remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AFAICT the only thing all of these "security measures" do is get people used to the idea that they're subjects, not citizens and that the security forces can do whatever they want whenever they want to anybody they feel like. By the time most people realize we're turning into a police state it will be too late.

      Turning into one? Do you realize I can travel to Russia with less bureucracy, stupid questionaires, sending my personal data over and other police state measures than the USA? And we were actually in a war with them less than 70 years ago. Really, you already are a police state compared to most other civilised countries. Have fun.

      captcha: litigate

    3. Re:Something to remember by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Of course, they've protected us against terrorists. Just like my Magic Anti-Tiger Rock keeps all the tigers away from me. Sure, some might say that there are no tigers in New York, but I know that - were I to let go of this rock for even a second - a tiger could sneak up and get me. The TSA affords the same protection!

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    4. Re:Something to remember by Hatta · · Score: 1

      It's already too late.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  27. Hmm by ZenDragon · · Score: 2

    I would say, "hell no you're not putting that shit in my drink!" and chug it really quick!

    1. Re:Hmm by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

      Followed by an arrest for "destruction or tampering with evidence," I wonder...

  28. United Suspects of America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Liberty plz.

    1. Re:United Suspects of America by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      Liberty plz.

      I say, "Give me liberty or give me death." Well, we're all out of liberty, so now it's just a matter of time...

  29. Can we sue the TSA by chrismcb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Can we sue the TSA for putting us in harms way? I am sick and tired of them making me stand in line, next to a barrel full of suspected explosives.

    1. Re:Can we sue the TSA by Penurious+Penguin · · Score: 1

      A fantastic proposal and just as rational as their best argument. I mean, what kind of real American looks at a baby these days and doesn't think "Holy shit! That plump little bastard could be stuffed to the brim with explosives; Xray it immediately for god's sake -- or get me outa here!"? Worst of all, they are small enough to be considered potentially deadly missiles, or at least dangerous projectiles. Tell me I'm wrong for learning quickly, aye?

      Support the TSA ~ Eat toxoplasmosis and seek beyond the nappy

      --
      Forward! -- Emperor Norton, 2012
    2. Re:Can we sue the TSA by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Well if you throw that baby hard enough you may very well injure someone (other than the baby) or, thrown hard enough, actually kill them. But then you have to throw really hard as babies tend to be a bit rubber-like. Not exactly hard or so. Or of course you could hold the baby at its feet and swing it around like a club, definitely hurts when you hit someone with it like that.

      So, yeah, sure, babies are potentially dangerous weapons, and should be forbidden from boarding a plane.

    3. Re:Can we sue the TSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A fantastic proposal and just as rational as their best argument. I mean, what kind of real American looks at a baby these days and doesn't think "Holy shit! That plump little bastard could be stuffed to the brim with explosives...

      Those plump little bastards are chock fuil of explosive liquids and semi-solids. And they are still allowed to board the aircraft. Maybe the TSA could use butt plugs, vaginal plugs (females) or penis plugs (males) to prevent all leakage and a ballgag in their mouth as well for the protection of the other passengers. Hurray for the TSA!

    4. Re:Can we sue the TSA by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      That would be a great attack vector. What I find humorous about that is that if there were real explosives that someone dumped in the trash can it's not like Rubbermaid 55 gallon bin would stop much of anything. If I were a terrorist I would be targeting the security measures. Such things like dropping a bomb into a TSA trash can, detonating a suicide bomber while in line, shooting up a bunch of a people just before going through the scanners, etc.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    5. Re:Can we sue the TSA by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You could end air travel in the USA in a week. Bomb 4 places simultaneously in the security line. I'd do Denver as the top priority, as their lines are long and in a very open area. 3 more and then they'll move the lines. Perhaps to check-in, perhaps to the curb. Then, the very next day, bomb the next security lines (they'd be huge because the response would have been disorganized), again in 4 places, but not the same 4 as before. I'd expect them to shut down the airports at that point, and only allow rich Saudis to fly. When they re-open, at exactly 8 hours after they open, bomb LaGuardia, JFK, and Newark (after having left those alone in the first 2 rounds). The sit back, relax, and wait for every domestic carrier to fail. Given the ineptitude of the government to be agile, they'd never be able to react in a manner that would prevent the initial or subsequent bombings. It only takes 11 people, less than 9/11, and would do much more economic damage to the USA. It would also be cheaper than 9/11 was, because 9/11 required training, and a longer ramp up time. But at least for 9/11 they had the right idea and did 4 at the same time. 4 is as easy as 1, when done at the same time, and manages to panic people more.

  30. Security theater in the round by rlh100 · · Score: 1

    Security theater is always better if it is not just up on stage but if the TSA actors actually come down into the audience and randomly do interactive skits with people in the audience. It shows they take their art seriously.

  31. The TSA is nothing more than a jobs program. by net_oholic · · Score: 3, Informative

    Someday, people will come to realize that there was one single change after 9/11 that effectively eliminated the possibility that hijackers could use our planes to fly into targets - they put locks on the cockpit doors.

    Everything else is a charade. The TSA was created and is funded specifically to allow politicians to brag that they "created jobs", even if those jobs are completely worthless and nothing more than "security theater". It's a federal work program, nothing more. You might as well named it the "Ditch Digging Administration" and put the same low income, low skill workers in fields digging ditches and filling them back in. At least that would have some tangible benefit and stop causing so many people the nuisance.

    In fact, the privacy invasions, delays, and "no fly lists" put in place by the TSA have caused significantly more deaths than happends on 9/11 - because people avoid the airports more and drive... getting into highway accidents.

    1. Re:The TSA is nothing more than a jobs program. by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      Problem with your theory...The TSA was started in late-2001, early-2002 when the unemployment rate was not out of control. The whole "it-was-started-to-create-jobs" line just doesn't hold water. Now, it was started by a bunch of control freak conservatives that wanted to "protect" Americans, but clearly all it does is violate their rights.

    2. Re:The TSA is nothing more than a jobs program. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someday, people will come to realize that there was one single change after 9/11 that effectively eliminated the possibility that hijackers could use our planes to fly into targets - they put locks on the cockpit doors.

      That's good rhetoric, but for honesty's sake, you should add something about ending the universal policy of complying with hijackers' requests. The point I actually want to make is that everyone I've every spoken with already knows that. Now, it's possible that the small fraction of people who don't realize it yet are those in charge of the TSA and Congress (I mean, we do have a tendency to elect some very, very clueless people to Congress), but I'm pretty sure they understand the theater, too. No, I think that our continued participation in the TSA's act allows us each, individually, to think "I know this is all crap, but at least it soothes the fears of some of these morons around me." You see, everyone gets to feel superior and possessed of special knowledge, just by the collective agreement not to mention The Elephant.

      Can you imagine a crowd of 2,000 frustrated travelers just deciding to march on past the 20 unarmed TSA agents and go on to their flights? I'll bet, once you get to about 50 frustrated travelers, everyone behind them would follow along just as sheepishly as they stand in line. Now, they'll shut down and evacuate an airport if one person marches past security, but what would they do with 2,000?

  32. This is bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you know that the fine upstanding TSA is taking all precautions by using sterile equipment and not putting a toxin into your beverage? WTF happened to the USA? When did we become Soviet America?

  33. Transportation Soviet Agency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Name says it all.

  34. See the Shiny Badge blog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The best source for information about the TSA and the abuses is http://shinybadge.com/

    Did you know hat 318 TSA Officers have been arrested just last year for crimes committed against passengers?

  35. So ... did the terrorists won ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To allow such practices ...
    From where I stand, it looks that the USA are terrified.
    Or that the TSA is just a gang of jerks.

    Does anybody there remembers "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." ?

    I guess I'll continue to avoid the USA (and China, Russia, ...) on my flight destinations.

    1. Re:So ... did the terrorists won ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, don't lump China and Russia in with the USA. China and Russia aren't exactly paragons of freedom either, but the USA is in a class by itself.

  36. This is indeed nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A couple years ago these goons pulled me aside as I was about to board the plane, frisked me and interrogated me about my sandwich. All in front of everyone boarding the plane. By the time they finished groping me and learning about the particulars of a rather uninteresting sandwich, the plane was nearly full. Fucking bastards. In retrospect, everyone on the plane probably thought I was a terrorist too. I hope you're laughing as you're reading this because humor is about the only legal way to deal with this bullshit.

  37. Swab® Brand | Safe© Choice© by Penurious+Penguin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Swab® Brand Beverages - The only beverage endorsed and trusted by the TSA. Make the Swab® Choice - The only Choice© for honest passengers.

    INGREDIENTS: Reclaimed Water, Radiocontrast Agents, Aspartame, MDMA, Potassium Sorbate, Castoreum, Scopolamine, Nano Lead.

    --
    Forward! -- Emperor Norton, 2012
    1. Re:Swab® Brand | Safe© Choice© by Inda · · Score: 2

      I'm an honest passanger! I'll take a crate!

      Any chance I could have the Aspartame-free version? I hear it's dangerous.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    2. Re:Swab® Brand | Safe© Choice© by fuzznutz · · Score: 1

      You forgot monosodium poisonate and partially de-weaponized plutonium.

    3. Re:Swab® Brand | Safe© Choice© by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      MDMA and scopolamine? (*)

      Would be a nice trip for your trip!

      People would drink it by the gallon!

      An entheogen/entactogen plus an deleriant anticholinergic, for those not in the know.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  38. I've not seen them do this, and I fly a lot. by PotatoHead · · Score: 1

    I know exactly what I'm going to do when they do attempt this with my drink.

    "Oh, you want some coffee? Here, take mine, no worries, thanks."

    Or maybe...

    "Please hold on to this for me, thanks."

    +1 to the "ditch digging" comment up-thread. Yeah, spot on. I want the security jobs, IF THEY ARE ACTUALLY ADDING MATERIAL SECURITY VALUE.

    1. Re:I've not seen them do this, and I fly a lot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have. In Denver and Orlando. They actually had me open a sealed bottle of water I had just paid $5 for.

  39. And I tried to support them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For a long time now, I've defended (some of) the TSA's actions. Basically, if they legitimately can't ensure safety without some highly intrusive measures, then I can respect the intrusiveness of those measures. But, that was all based on the notion that there was (maybe http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/03/07/0329255/the-ineffectiveness-of-tsa-body-scanners) a legitimate justification. However this new act has no logical justification. I could understand if they randomly sampled vendors' goods (especially drinks) to make sure nothing illicit got through, though presumably they already do this. But to do something like this to the passengers after the frisking, body scanning, etc. Unacceptable.

  40. Totally. I've actually done this. by PotatoHead · · Score: 1

    Was part of a bet. Worked fantastically well.

    It's also good for just walking around places. If you are presenting as somebody who is supposed to be there, you simply are. Kind of amazing really.

  41. We've won! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha! Ha! Ha! The Americans are scared shitless now! Us terrorists have won!

  42. How about they actually screen the goods sold? by PotatoHead · · Score: 4, Funny

    Seriously.

    If they are going to spot check the liquids, just do it before I purchase said liquid. That's kind of a nice deal, given it actually has some impact on my safety. Random checks after the purchase has a really shitty end game:

    1. Liquid found to be benign: "Sorry for bothering you, and trust us the chemicals used for testing are no big deal." Right. Feeling good about that one. NOT!
    2. Liquid found to be dubious: "I'm afraid we need to conficate your coffee miss..." She asks, "Well, what about that guy over there, who got one too?" Yeah, that's ugly. Do they go and get his to put up a brave face, eventually just taking all the coffee? Or is it just a lie, or menacing behavior to get her to just shut down? And if she asks, "But you guys certified them for sale inside the terminal right?" Their reply? LOL!!!
    3. Liquid found to be dangerous: See dubious, but for a lawsuit. +1 for pain and suffering on all sides. Might as well just start handing out good drugs to prevent the headaches that are going to happen. Here in Oregon, somebody might just strip over it! State law permits nudity as a legit protest. Hello 10 O'Clock news!

    There are times when I seriously wonder whether or not anyone actually thinks about these things on more than a basic level.

    Of course, the vendors would throw a fit! They need to make the money, so fuck us, right? Right.

  43. Seeing this.... Makes me wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do people still put locks on their checked bags?

    I mean, those bags are under the strict control of the TSA. It would be impossible for any criminal wrongdoing to occur under their supervision.

    Surely luggage theft has been eliminated.

    Surely no one who would take something valuable from a bag would be of such low character as to put something dangerous into a bag. Surely such a person could not be swayed by ideology or a bribe.

    Right?

  44. Nothing New? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Watching that video makes me want to take a fucking pencil and jam it into that fucking domestic terrorist bitches neck.

  45. Re:U$tArds, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mod up. Sounds trollish, but it's absolutely true, as proven by TFA.

  46. Yep. by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 1

    This is why I have gone from 20 flights per year to 2 flights per year.

    --

    I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

  47. Better than before? by Mr_Silver · · Score: 1

    A couple of years ago I flew back to London from Las Vegas via Denver (I think) and the TSA wouldn't let any drinks over 100ml purchased inside the airport terminal go onto the connecting flight.

    Every single person was forced to either hand it over during the screening proces or stand around and drink it before proceeding. It was extremely annoying to find that we couldn't take our overpriced bottle of water onto the flight.

    If they are now screening drinks then it's better than it was before.

    --
    Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
  48. Re:Way to improve post security gate food/drink sa by neo8750 · · Score: 2

    3 dollars? Damn its cheap where you fly the airport i fly out of for work 2-3 times a week charges 4 for a 20 oz bottle of water and 4.75 for a bottle of coke. Now if you go to the bar and get a fountain drink (in a glass you cant take with) its 3.05.

  49. So behind the Times America by ufpdom · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I travel back and forth from Japan pretty regularly. They have a special machine that they take the drink pop it in a holder and within seconds throws the green light or the 'Abunai' Red alert signal. Its been there for years. Kinda cool that I can buy my tea from outside the security zone and bring it right now.
    Swabbing? LOL..

    --
    There's no Freedom like UFP-dom
  50. Failure by mr100percent · · Score: 2

    So they're admitting the security theater at the checkpoint is ineffective? And more theater is needed?

  51. measures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you dislike the TSA, please expend the small amount of time and calories to:

    1) reduce your airline flights as much as possible and notify an airline in writing ("I estimate that I've avoided spending $1800 this year alone on plane tickets, and have instead spent about $2100 and more time on other forms of travel, in order to avoid the TSA treatment.")
    2) write to a congressperson to complain
    3) always POLITELY request to be hand searched rather than scanned, and try to POLITELY take up as much as their time as you can
    4) try to carry many completely innocent items which they must remove or scan -- things like a bottle of coke, etc.

    This takes many, many of us doing it to have the desired effect.

    1. Re:measures by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      All of this are completely useless - as in zero effect for some very obvious pain - unless you know that enough people will also do all those things. And we know that they won't - after all, the majority of Americans are still happy with TSA screenings in general, and even from the minority which isn't happy, obviously not everyone will be unhappy enough to waste their time and money protesting it.

  52. More reasons why TSA are worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You just suggested yet another way to smuggle explosives into an airport undetected. Just ingest a few pounds of plastic explosive and an detonator. It might make you sick give enough time, but you could just swallow it 30 minutes before you take off, and check in for a flight that has short security lines. If you are intending to become a suicide bomber, what does it matter if it goes off inside or outside you? Back scatter will pick up nothing, and nobody gets swabbed for explosive residue.

    TSA keep protecting us from...well whatever is is you protect us from.

  53. Transferring by crossmr · · Score: 1

    What's worse is when you're transferring. If you have any liquids left and you have to go through security again, you lose it..even when it's in the contained transfer area. So stupid.
    After making a very long international flight with many transfers, we often had to through security again, despite just coming off a plane, and not exiting the security area. Even the small bottles of water they give you on the plane itself got confiscated. It's pure fucking idiocy .

  54. Pour some in the saucer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would I care if its toxic or not, if they want to put in in my drink they can do it in a small sample or they can buy me a new drink.

  55. Umm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't bother me any. It really isnt an apocalyptic NWO genocide. Its a fuckin bottle pat down. Big whoop, and if a TSA agent wants to touch my crotch I can care less. Not like im stripping naked. Its as pedant as having to captcha before ya post a comment.

  56. No more flying by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    I always hated the cattle crush anyway.

    Not that this makes any of this nonsense right.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  57. Testing drinks is nothing new. by StikyPad · · Score: 1

    The TSA insisted Tuesday that its policy of checking liquids beyond the security gate has been in place for five years now.

    Also, we've always been at war with Eastasia.

    1. Re:Testing drinks is nothing new. by jackalope · · Score: 1

      You beat me to it. My immediate thought was with the eternal war with Eastasia.

  58. Re:Way to improve post security gate food/drink sa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I imagine that having some stranger, even one wearing a shiny badge, come up and wipe something over the mouth of that $3 bottle, or put a drop of "non-toxic" fluid in it, will result in the sale of one more $3 bottle of water.

  59. We have always been at war with Coca Cola by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

    times 14.2.84 miniplenty malquoted liquid allowance rectify

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  60. If approached: "Oops! I dropped my drink" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If enough folks do that, it will only be a matter of time before pressure from airport management due to the extra cleanup work will stop this practice.

  61. omg its happening.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DONT U ALL SEE? they are using this as an excuse to plant secret nanobots in us to mind control us...

  62. On this topic, USA not too unusual by SoothingMist · · Score: 1

    In Ethiopia, you have to retain your receipt for drinks purchased in the terminal because you WILL be asked for them by security personnel. But, they do not do any testing of open drinks.

  63. Security checks..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Several years ago, while emptying my pockets for the security scan, I found my pocketknife. Ah! shit! forgotten! I had carefully packed it in my hold-luggage for the way there, but I'd used it and kept it in my jeans pocket after that.

    So I put it in my camera-bag near the LIPO batteries because those might be opague to the X-ray scan....And lo and behold... I got through with the forgotten knife between the LIPO batteries....

    Fast forward three and a half years. Different airport. This time: "Sir, you have a camera in that bag, can I take a look at your camera bag?". "Sure, go ahead". So the guy carefully looks at all the compartments in my camera bag, finds nothing and waves me through...

    I consider telling him of the story of the forgotten knife three years ago, but think better of it.

    Fast forward about 3 days....

    Looking through my bag I find a few objects that I hadn't intended on taking along on this trip..... A 30 cm long needle and... the knife that wasn't confiscated 3 years ago..... Ooops.

    I'm pretty confident that I acted innocently: I didn't know I had forgotten those objects in there.

  64. drops? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even if they swab the drink to get a sample, that still does not explain the chemical they are putting in the drink. The only thing that will do is get some chemical into your body, and THAT crosses a line. Your body belongs to you and you should NEVER tolerate anybody wanting to put any kind of chemical or medication into your body without your asking them to.

    Time to contact the vendors in the airports and tell them their products will no longer be purchased due to TSA practices.

  65. Security Theatre Act 24, Scene 158 by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

    This is getting old.

  66. I can see why by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    If I chug a whole can of Pepsi at once, it's been known to cause explosive burps that could easily cause explosive decompression in the cabin if that CO2 were to make it onto the plane lol.

  67. Breast Milk inside Breasts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What are they going to do about breast-feeding mothers who are producing lots of milk while waiting to go through those lines?

    "Excuse me, Maam but I need to squeeze your funbags to sample your milk for explosives."

    History is going to look at this time period with sadness.

  68. DNA by linuxwrangler · · Score: 2

    Well, that's one way to build up a DNA database. Didn't the spooks recruit a doctor to get Bin Laden DNA under the guise of vaccinations?

    --

    ~~~~~~~
    "You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
  69. I'm still waiting... by jemenake · · Score: 1

    Actually, this brings up something that went through my head the last time I was prepping my 3oz bottles of scotch to bring onto the plane...

    How long until some hot-shot chemistry geek goes into one of the gift shops inside the terminal and buys a bunch of items for sale beyond the checkpoint, and then takes them home and makes a YouTube video about how to make a cool bomb out of them using only those items and stuff you'd have available in an airplane lavatory?

    I didn't take careful note of the stuff you can get in the shops, but I imagine you can get hand-sanitizer (~70% alcohol), anti-perspirants (with aluminum, which can be highly reactive), lots of cold medicines with all sorts of compounds in them, etc. Granted, chem isn't my area at all, so I don't know how feasible it is... but I figure this would be a great project for a chem hack.

    1. Re:I'm still waiting... by PRMan · · Score: 1

      When I went to Hawaii recently, they were selling pineapple cutters in the airport with a really nasty blade in them. It would be really easy to use it on a plane as a weapon.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  70. Dangerous and detectable but drinkable, unlikely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems like they are either
          1)aware of some new strange concoction,
          2) or are not thinking too clearly
          3) or trying to smoke out something
          4) or just not being nice folks
          5) or something else

    I'd bet on a simple harmless #2, but I'd bet if pushed they would double down and claim #3.
          (That correlates with #2 perfectly. ;-)

  71. What if we say, "No"? by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

    Can we "opt out" of these inspections, or do we risk the $10,000 fine?

    There's no fucking way I'm drinking that after they've put whatever in it. Can I at least make them buy me a new drink? Probably not.

  72. business opportunity... by schlachter · · Score: 1

    1) Start selling Airport safe 2.9oz bottles of water!
    2) Profit.

    --
    My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
  73. TSA vs imposter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So then, how do I tell the difference between a TSA employee swabbing my drink with a supposedly non-toxic liquid vs someone dressed as a TSA agent swabbing my drink with a toxic compound ? And how does the TSA know whether I am sensitive to the supposedly non-toxic liquid they are using ? Seems to me that the TSA is actually enabling the bad guys here.

  74. In Soviet America... by davidwr · · Score: 0

    The next time you are screened by a non-US citizen TSA screener, just remember:

    In Soviet America, Alien Probes YOU!

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  75. Clumsy me.... by skyggen · · Score: 1

    I'd accidentally spilt my liquids on them. So sorry. I get nervous when approached by God Blessed American Authority. Then started signing the National Anthem of Freedonia. Tazed. end scene. BTW, anyone notice how lax subway/train security is compared to airports. It sucks I see little they can do about it. I mean if I was going to get to the Airport, I'd take the train. It's reliable and follows the same path every trip. I mean the train tracks let you know that. The schedules are kept to maximise profit and minimise accidents. So the train will with an almost 100% certainty pass the same point each trip at the same time. Most of these trips also happen to take place during an airports busiest hours. Did you know the majority of trains are highly magnetic. You could lay in a ditch on the side of the tracks and throw a magnet and it would stick, especially if it was rare earth. I'm glad trains don't derail too often coming into the train stations, the kinetic force of a commuter train moving at 55 mph is alot. Not to mention how terrifying & messy that kind of crash is.

  76. Thank President George W. Bush by assertation · · Score: 1

    The TSA is another one of his lovely legacies.

  77. Israeli Security and the Liquids Restriction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My daughter has traveled to Israel several times over the past 2 years and has flown El Al. When asked if they wanted to see her quart-sized Ziploc bag, they just laughed and said they had no restrictions on carry-on liquids. It really does seem like the US is spending a lot of time and money obsessing about liquids/aerosols/gels. And obviously the terrorists have a work-around: Meet on the other side of the security checkpoint and "pool" their quart Ziploc bags.

  78. What if by DanielBMS · · Score: 1

    What if it's an inside job? What if somebody who works at the terminal store places explosive chemicals inside a conventional drink? Oh wait the fact that you can still take lighters on airplanes makes that irrelevant.

  79. Call The Health Department, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is not clear to me that the TSA folk are mindful of the most
    simple sanitation issues related to food and drink:
              Call The Health Department and CDC
    when you see grubby grimy gloves rummaging in your
    personals. I have seen agents with gloves so grimy that
    they may have just come in from hand broadcasting
    horse manure on a farm filed.

    They are worried about biologic agents yet their process
    would disperse agents far and wide. It may be simple
    salmonella or that nasty virus reported from Yosemite.
    They are in your clean clothes, your toiletries, your toothbrush,
    your shaving kit. Then there is the pat down and junk grab that
    most assuredly goes on to a degree some would not disclose.
    Just a wipe of his arm pits, then the next victim gets hers/his.

    To my knowledge TSA agents are not screened for communicable
    diseases the way food handlers are. Clearly they do not wear protective
    clothing, hairnets or clean gloves.

    Yet they are into your breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks....
    purses full of soiled tissue from people with the flu, common cold...

    Be polite... communicate who, what, when, where....
    This is a health issue not an urgent national security issue
    until Typhoid Mary gets a TSA job.

  80. Einstein said it best... by clevershark · · Score: 1

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the former."

    --

    My sig is too lon

  81. Freedom to take a new job by mccabem · · Score: 1

    Hah! There's no freakin jobs here to switch to and we're better off than many areas! Where u from that you can still feel so cavalier about your current position?

  82. A small edit for clarity by mccabem · · Score: 1

    Having said that, I don't see the point, unless they're trying[...]to put up a show.

    Bingo!