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Ask Slashdot: Best Computer For a 7-Year Old?
First time accepted submitter Boldizar writes "My son turns seven next month and I'd like to buy him a cheap computer. I'm looking for the Slashdot hivemind opinion on what would be the best computer for a child. I'm looking for a computer that will teach him basic computer literacy, and hopefully one wherein the guts are a bit exposed so that he can learn how a computer works rather than just treating it like a magic object (i.e., iPad) – but that would still keep him interested and without leaving him behind in school. For the same reason, I prefer a real keyboard so he can learn to type. I don't know enough about computers to frame the question intelligently. Perhaps something in the $300 range that would be the computer equivalent of an old mechanical car engine? Another way to think about it: I'm looking for the computer equivalent of teaching my son how to survive in the forest should the zombie apocalypse ever come."
Since you probably want your child to learn touch typing (using all fingers, always the same finger for the same key) you should get one with a smaller keyboard (netbook?) since touch typing is not possible if your hands are too small for a regular keyboard. (OTOH this could be problematic if he has to use full sized keyboards at school)
Firstly, I'd ask you WHY you'd want him to learn anything in particular, than - everything?
A computer is just ONE part of his life, if you want him to be "computer smart", you know...understand todays technology, just give into his curiosity, it's very dangerous to "force" a kid into anything, it's better to just let them stumble upon anything in their way, and support them there any way you can.
I'm sure it will come naturally. If he's a gamer, let him play with consoles.
If he's curious how these things are made, introduce him to a computer with a simple Programming IDE set up for him...like Python and SDL. (Just like we grew up with C64 and basic, you know...)
etc..
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Get him started off programming BASIC, and then inlining bits of machine code. He'll be a natural in no time.
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Why not build it together, with your child. The experience of putting something together and making it work will far exceed any other expectations you may have.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Raspberry Pi pretty much what you're looking for?
fuck no, it's not. buying him a raspberry would be like buying someone a nes to get him into games industry. buying him a shitbox x86 and loading it with linux would work much better for all the things the rasp could teach him. with raspberry he'd be stuck with the apps there's on it, clunky gaming via clunky emulators and slow response time for just about everything. it's not like he's going to be doing anything soon with gpio pins and such.
now, getting an used p4-era computer _and_ a raspberry might not be so bad.. but for a 7 year old, just get him some computer that's loaded with a real os and made of real parts. and some games, classic games.
I'd go with a desktop box and some modern monitor, real keyboard etc. that way it's easier to keep tabs on him without spyware - and there's the possibility to teach about the parts when some part fails and needs to be replaced.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Okay, a lot of people are going to get on here and talk about their favorite computer, or how to get your kid involved in programming and hacking, etc. But let's be honest: Most kids at that age play games with a computer. Until they're a teenager, there's no strong need for privacy, so I'd say just get something like a mac mini or an HTPC, set it up in the livingroom, and then give the kid a wireless keyboard and mouse and hook it up to the TV. Kids will spill juice, food, and generally destroy anything you give them.
A laptop or tablet is straight out unless they're waterproof and can survive being run over by a car. or worse. Get one of those fold-up keyboards... don't spend much money on it either way, it'll die. And you might want to buy a spare. (-_-) For kids "survivability" is far more important of an attribute than tech specs or even operating system.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Pick one: a PC or a circular slide rule...
Seriously, a 7-year-old has too much to learn about almost everything. He is better off with his own account on a shared PC (e.g. a family PC, where our kids started), where he can dabble and can sometimes look over an adult's shoulder. Give him his own PC, and he's likely to still want to use the same one as dad or mom.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Seriously, you think an iPad is a "magic object" and a CPU chip isn't?
There's no such thing, and never has been. Unless you're talking a behemoth like a difference engine, or a toy like one of the Lego/Tinkertoy computers... how an electronic computer works isn't visible without at *least* some form of multimeter or oscilloscope... or for a computer of any complexity (read: any consumer computer past the mid/late 80's) a fairly sophisticated analyzer.
This is about as muddled and confusing a statement as I've ever read in an Ask Slashdot - which is an achievement worthy of note. You don't even know what you want to teach him, beyond conforming to some dogma ("no magic box") and ideals ("survive the zombie apocalypse") you've picked up along the line and now repeat as though they were sensible and logical observations of reality. You're the Slashdot version of a cargo cultist.
Is buy parts for a PC off of some website, get a case with a clear side. Build it with him, teach him the importance of discharging static etc. Let him put the pieces together, tell him what each piece does.
You should be able to get parts for a standard PC relatively inexpensively.
Load the operating system with him, and explain what it does.
This is essentially how I got my start, I was about 9 years old I believe, it was an awesome experience! My Dad bought the parts from a magazine, we waiting the grueling week for it to come in. He watched over my shoulder as I assembled it, making sure I didn't do anything wrong. My Dad is awesome for many reasons and this is one of them.
I applaud your effort to get your son involved at an early age, and with the right mindset!
This article should be inspirational:
http://changelog.complete.org/archives/7562-i-introduced-my-5-year-old-and-2-year-old-to-startx-and-xmonad-theyre-delighted
The thing is kids can get stuff pretty quick if you don't put the fear of knowledge in them.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
Get him a programmable robot. The act of learning how a computer "thinks" is the best takeaway from an early computer experience, and even involves some programming, even if not in a language he'd ever use again. Plus, you get the reward of seeing it actually do something. Otherwise, get him a WoW account and treat the PC as a gaming console for all he'll learn from a computer.
So many here have the nostalgia of their first PC. Mine required that I program just about anything I wanted to do with them. I'd buy the magazines with fold-out programs in them, and spend hours typing and saving it to an audio tape. Then load it up later and play. Choplifter was the only game that I had to play that wasn't programmed by me.
Playing with the computer should require learning about the computer. The closest I've seen are the programmmable assembly-required robot kits where you can build what you want, then program it how you want. For the home PC, they made it so easy now, it's like learning about microwave communications by heating coffee in a microwave oven.
Learn to love Alaska
At 7, get him a set of throw away clothes and tell him to go out side and explore and don't get angry when he comes home filthy.
Wash, rinse and repeat...
Plenty of time for computers later.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
buying him a shitbox x86 and loading it with linux would work much better for all the things the rasp could teach him. with raspberry he'd be stuck with the apps there's on it,
For 300 bucks it doesn't even need to be that terrible. A used or on sale dual core AMD machine or the like would be 'good enough', I'd put linux and windows 7 on it probably. Find a semi tech savvy friend and offer a couple of hundred bucks for their old machine when they're getting rid of it.
Just be prepared to buy something better in a year or two, once he has some skills, or spends a lot of time on it, it becomes worth investing in a machine that can actually do a bit more (decent GPU, decent support for an SSD etc).
There's nothing wrong with Raspberry Pi, but it's a whole other market segment - it's so cheap you don't ever want to do anything to it, because it's cheaper to buy a new one than repair an old one. If you're poor (really really poor), then Raspberry pi is the way to go. If you can afford 300 bucks then you'd be better served with a proper, albeit older, PC and maybe a raspberry pi on the side. You never know what the kid will take to, but he the Rasp is really really cheap for a reason.
The best choices would be an old office computer from where the questioner works, or used machine from a friend, or a clearance sale/open box. Don't be afraid to spend 100 bucks on a 22 inch monitor, because that can last for 4 or 5 years if you treat it properly, and there aren't really user serviceable parts in a monitor (at least not for a 7 year old) anyway.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Raspberry Pi pretty much what you're looking for?
fuck no, it's not. buying him a raspberry would be like buying someone a nes to get him into games industry. buying him a shitbox x86 and loading it with linux would work much better for all the things the rasp could teach him.
Saven-year-olds are already writing software using the Raspberry Pi.. It's say it would be absolutely ideal.
Or a better idea..
For $300 you buy a shitload of books, especially if you go to the used book store.
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Cheap, mass-produced products tend to be little sealed boxes that don't tell you much about guts. Once upon a time you could have a lot of fun fiddling with electronic logic, but now products are all based on little prepackaged ICs containing millions of circuits that are light years ahead of anything you can do by hand. So forget about a system that "exposes the guts".
I think the specific computer you want matters a lot less than the software you put on it. Nowadays, software represents the "guts" you want your kid to learn about. That suggests that maybe you should just get him a cheap Linux laptop, show him how to open a terminal window, give him a book on shell programming, and stand back. Kids are really good at making the most of that scenario.
OK, maybe shell programming is not something that will get the attention of a 7-year-old. There are a ton of child-specific programming platforms that might be the ticket. Your judgement as to which one would best suit your son is certainly better than anybody else's.
The Thomas Friedman column you link talks about an Estonian program for grade-schoolers that sounds kind of cool. But you seem to come away from it with the notion that you owe it to your kid to fill his head with technical skills so he'll be a competitive when he enters the job market. IMHO, that's a pretty good way to destroy a child's love of a topic. (I'm thinking of the unpleasant music lessons I had with my own father; my love of music will never be what it might have been.) You should focus instead on something Friedman says further down.
There is a quote attributed to the futurist Alvin Toffler that captures this new reality: In the future “illiteracy will not be defined by those who cannot read and write, but by those who cannot learn and relearn.” Any form of standing still is deadly.
That suggests that the imperative is not to learn a specific set of skills, but to learn to learn.
RaspberryPi *is* a cheap linux machine. And it is designed for children to program. It uses several different Linux distros compiled for the ARM processor from Broadcom. I have one. Kids love them. Check out Raspberrypi.org.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Raspberry Pi pretty much what you're looking for?
Two weeks ago I'd have said "no", but last week I got one of my own and I'm not so sure. They have far more potential than I would have imagined from the raw specs.
Today I'm going to say "yes", for three reasons:
a) You get a very visual, direct contact with the machine, you can even see/touch the PCB! (after grounding yourself...) Very good for zombie apocalypse.
b) You're also not going to be treated as a pure consumer of apps. Hands-on is essential (be prepared to help with the apt-get side of things).
c) If it doesn't work out like you imagined you only lost $35, it's no big deal. The keyboard/monitor will be useful for other things or you can cobble together a PC from old parts and he'll have a Pi and a PC to play with.
No sig today...
If you're poor (really really poor), then Raspberry pi is the way to go....
...the best choices would be an old office computer from where the questioner works, or used machine from a friend, or a clearance sale/open box.
Completely disagree.
Seven-year-olds need toys. A seven-year-old is going to be way more interested in a cute little PCB that you can hold in your hand and plug things into than an old beige box from an office.
No sig today...
They don't need their own computer yet. Probably at 12 years old, but no sooner. They need to learn the fundamentals of what they are doing before they abstract it away with a computer.
I myself was slapped in front of a computer at the age of 5. I'm now sitting here on a sunday night, posting on Slashdot rather than doing something useful. Do you want that to be your kids?
I'm not so sure I like the idea of a 7 year old opening a desktop machine with mains voltages available.
Unless it's a dedicated battery system (say a Raspberry Pi) I would not allow a 7 year old unfettered access to any hardware. Too dangerous.
If the goal is to teach a kid about basic electronics / logic or similar, the Lego Mindstorm sounds like a much better idea.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
No paranoid parent would/should give a 7 year old as something as breakable and valuable as a multi-hundred dollar laptop
FTFY. Seriously. Just explain to them that the device is fragile, and that NO fighting for it will be tolerated.
Kids, especially at age 4+, are by no means dumb or clumsy; if you tell them beforehand that they need to pay attention that it never drops on the floor, and show that you trust them, they'll pay attention and do their very best to deserve that trust -- to make daddy proud.
Sure, accidents can happen. But do you keep them in a sterile environment so they don't catch a cold?
(Fwiw, I've a tablet that got its first bumps and scratches due to a friend's 13-year old daughter. The fucking brat needed the entire dining room table room to do her homework, so she wiped everything on it to the floor: phone, tablet, laptop, you name it. At least three dozen 4-8 year olds and two cats had played with the tablet unsupervised prior to that event; it had no scratches.)
>> I'm looking for a computer that will teach him basic computer literacy
Computer can't do that. Only a human can.
For gods sake people, obeseity is a problem already. Get the children playing games and learning social skills. A fit, healthy individual who is socially savvy is likely to be more successful than one of the I.T. crowd. Sure get them interested in tech and science as well as sports.
If you want something techie or science based then get your child a telescope. It has the advantage of the Wow factor, being hands-on and getting the children outdoor. The plus side is that you'll get some exercise and be bond with your child as you discover the universe. Just don't by a cheap telescope from Walmart, etc... You can get a really cool Galileo scope at http://www.astrosphere.org/astrogear/shop/buy2give/galileoscope-2/ for about $50. But for 500-1200 you can get a really nice Dobsonian, just don't start too big.
For many kids (past and present), tinkering *is* what's fun.
LegendMUD
My creds: father of a 9 year old. She has a desktop XP machine and a laptop with Debian/LXDE
She is quite comfortable with both of them, and has no problem swapping out parts in the desktop machine.
Disclaimer: The only reason she has a Wintendo is for The Sims 2 Pets.
How do you get a kid to this level?
Try for a machine that is old enough to NOT have everything onboard.
The kiddo can help you install all the cards and memory, screw the case together "all by their self" and plug in/power on the machine. Then you can run them through a basic install of either Linux or XP, depending on if they want to play Wal-Mart videogames or not.
I took my old PC, wiped it clean and installed Windows XP on it. Avast anti virus. Ghosted the main drive to the second drive. Then unplugged the second drive.
Then turned him loose.
His desktop is littered with icons he made from testing the ideas of clicking and dragging. He somehow switched it to the High Contrast scheme. His browser has about a dozen toolbars. Which I think is interesting - it must be awfully easy to wind up with those. Don't hate your parents for installing them. It appears to happen almost by itself. On the plus side one of them plays Sonic the Hedgehog and he really likes that. A couple of old XP games, like Catz. He loves that.
He just clicks around and has fun. Supervised, of course. He's managed to do a fairly amazing number of things on his own. Watches youtube videos, has a few radio channels he found and likes, and so on.
If things get bad I'll restore the ghost image but for now he's having a blast.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I remember building a heathkit board that used huge chips to make a christmas tree light up.
Poke...Peek...
The parent has a point, start with a basic electronics kit and teach him about LOGIC...
Computers are simple if you learn from the ground up.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
This is absurd. First of all, the things you describe doing with the C64 most people will never do in their whole lives. The kid's not a geek. The question was what the kid could use to learn about normal non-geek computer use.
Second, when you were a kid and used a C64, modems, and a BBS, those things were the latest technology. You were motivated to learn because a C64 was something that you liked using anyway and you found it interesting to learn more about the same machine that you used to play Maniac Mansion or Elite. To 99% of modern kids, learning about a C64 would be learning about something that has no connection to anything he'd want to use outside the lesson.
The answer to this question is *not* "the same thing I used as a kid".
And, for a machine of that age, the kid can also make the necessary blood sacrifice required every time you open up the case.
It's just an added bonus of learning not to stick your fingers into everything you open up. Most of us had to wait until we were older to get that lesson.