Ask Slashdot: Best Computer For a 7-Year Old?

First time accepted submitter Boldizar writes "My son turns seven next month and I'd like to buy him a cheap computer. I'm looking for the Slashdot hivemind opinion on what would be the best computer for a child. I'm looking for a computer that will teach him basic computer literacy, and hopefully one wherein the guts are a bit exposed so that he can learn how a computer works rather than just treating it like a magic object (i.e., iPad) – but that would still keep him interested and without leaving him behind in school. For the same reason, I prefer a real keyboard so he can learn to type. I don't know enough about computers to frame the question intelligently. Perhaps something in the $300 range that would be the computer equivalent of an old mechanical car engine? Another way to think about it: I'm looking for the computer equivalent of teaching my son how to survive in the forest should the zombie apocalypse ever come."

Comments

First...why?

[MindPrison]

Firstly, I'd ask you WHY you'd want him to learn anything in particular, than - everything?

A computer is just ONE part of his life, if you want him to be "computer smart", you know...understand todays technology, just give into his curiosity, it's very dangerous to "force" a kid into anything, it's better to just let them stumble upon anything in their way, and support them there any way you can.

I'm sure it will come naturally. If he's a gamer, let him play with consoles.
If he's curious how these things are made, introduce him to a computer with a simple Programming IDE set up for him...like Python and SDL. (Just like we grew up with C64 and basic, you know...)

etc..

Commodore 64

[Hatta]

Get him started off programming BASIC, and then inlining bits of machine code. He'll be a natural in no time.

Re:Commodore 64

[ottawanker]

I completely agree. How many of us started out with a C64 and turned out fine?

Re:Commodore 64

[Kjella]

I did and ended up as a nerd that hangs out on Slashdot. Does that count as "fine"?

Home Build

[A10Mechanic]

Why not build it together, with your child. The experience of putting something together and making it work will far exceed any other expectations you may have.

Re:Raspberry Pi

[gl4ss]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Raspberry Pi pretty much what you're looking for?

fuck no, it's not. buying him a raspberry would be like buying someone a nes to get him into games industry. buying him a shitbox x86 and loading it with linux would work much better for all the things the rasp could teach him. with raspberry he'd be stuck with the apps there's on it, clunky gaming via clunky emulators and slow response time for just about everything. it's not like he's going to be doing anything soon with gpio pins and such.

now, getting an used p4-era computer _and_ a raspberry might not be so bad.. but for a 7 year old, just get him some computer that's loaded with a real os and made of real parts. and some games, classic games.

I'd go with a desktop box and some modern monitor, real keyboard etc. that way it's easier to keep tabs on him without spyware - and there's the possibility to teach about the parts when some part fails and needs to be replaced.

Not a tech problem

[girlintraining]

Okay, a lot of people are going to get on here and talk about their favorite computer, or how to get your kid involved in programming and hacking, etc. But let's be honest: Most kids at that age play games with a computer. Until they're a teenager, there's no strong need for privacy, so I'd say just get something like a mac mini or an HTPC, set it up in the livingroom, and then give the kid a wireless keyboard and mouse and hook it up to the TV. Kids will spill juice, food, and generally destroy anything you give them.

A laptop or tablet is straight out unless they're waterproof and can survive being run over by a car. or worse. Get one of those fold-up keyboards... don't spend much money on it either way, it'll die. And you might want to buy a spare. (-_-) For kids "survivability" is far more important of an attribute than tech specs or even operating system.

Even better

[AliasMarlowe]

Pick one: a PC or a circular slide rule...
Seriously, a 7-year-old has too much to learn about almost everything. He is better off with his own account on a shared PC (e.g. a family PC, where our kids started), where he can dabble and can sometimes look over an adult's shoulder. Give him his own PC, and he's likely to still want to use the same one as dad or mom.

Re:Even better

[Joce640k]

Seriously, a 7-year-old has too much to learn about almost everything.

This. I predict 99% of the people who are going to reply below this line will have no idea what a 7-year-old is like.

Expose him to computers, sure, but don't try to make them a central focus in his life.

Give him his own PC, and he's likely to still want to use the same one as dad or mom.

This as well...

Re:Even better

[hairyfeet]

Well I gave my boys their own PCs around 8 or 9, somewhere in there, but to be fair I was working at a PC shop at the time and we had shitloads of the Compaq SFF deskpro so it was easy enough to just get the boss to hand me a couple.

I'd say the way to teach kids about computers is the carrot and not the stick. Too many people try to overload them and make it as boring as any other class and just kill the fun. I loaded them up with emulators filled with killer games and when they asked "How can this play NES games without it being a NES? And where is the cartridge?" it was THEN that I started explaining how one chip could be emulated by another, and how they were all computers.

Kids are curious creatures so you expose them and soon enough they'll be the ones asking the questions. Because there was all that "ZOMFG DOOM teaches kids to be killers!" crap in the news I used that as a perfect excuse to give a lesson, so I stuck their pictures on the walls of a DOOM level. Of course they thought that was cool as hell and wanted to know how I did trhat. That led to a nice long lesson on how to edit games, and how games at their heart are nothing but collections of skins and artwork that when put together give the illusion of enemies smart enough to dodge you. It was quite educational and instead of being bored they were rapid firing questions a mile a minute.

So whatever you do make it FUN and let them come to YOU, don't try to force it down their throats. That way they are learning at their own pace and aren't overloaded with ideas they aren't ready for.

Re:Even better

[The Grim Reefer]

Seriously, a 7-year-old has too much to learn about almost everything.

This. I predict 99% of the people who are going to reply below this line will have no idea what a 7-year-old is like.

Expose him to computers, sure, but don't try to make them a central focus in his life.

Give him his own PC, and he's likely to still want to use the same one as dad or mom.

This as well...

Wow. I have to totally disagree with you. At least in the case of my daughter. She's had her own computer since she was 2 years old. She's now 9 and is on her second.

I work from home. She was curious about what I was doing at my desk one day so I installed a "edutainment" game that I picked up on sale several months earlier on clearance. I figured math and the alphabet wouldn't change much by the time she was ready for it. She thought it was great and wanted to be on my computer constantly. So I pulled an old computer out and set it up for her. By the time she entered kindergarten she could read, add, subtract and do some simple multiplication. Not that this was totally due to the computer. My wife and I read to her and always explained things when she would ask. At one point she asked for a game that I misread to be for 6-7 year olds that was actually for 6 to 7th graders. She was playing games that taught her about dominant and recessive genes. A while back she wanted some programs that needed a little more power than her computer had. That was the only time she wanted to use my computer since getting her own. So I got her a better system.

When she was 6 the only thing she wanted for Christmas was for me to put her computer on the internet. After some worry I finally did. But I don't allow her to get on chat rooms and Facebook etc.

I agree, it should not be a central focus. But it's an important tool to understand how to use. Frankly writing is started to be dropped in favor of typing in some schools. So I'm not sure way a keyboard an mouse shouldn't be of similar importance to crayons these days.

Re:Even better

[N3Bruce]

At that age, teaching basic life skills is top priority, the 3 Rs, plus teaching kids about the way real things work. Learning how a bicycle or a lawn mower works, how to do basic car, electrical, and plumbing repairs are also life skills, as well as cooking. Computers are part of this as well, but at that age While age 7 is a little early to expect kids to fix a broken flapper valve, replace a light switch, or sweat soldering copper plumbing, employing them as a gofer, and explaining the how and why of things as they look over your shoulder primes them for later on. Same with computers, let them help you when you repair or attempt to repair all kinds of different things. Let them take apart that broken electric drill to let them see how it works, and what caused it to fail. Keep a bunch of how-to books, first aid manuals, Army Field Manuals. Kids are easily bored, but their brains soak up information like a sponge at that age.

As they get older, let them or in the case when they break it themselves make them (with appropriate supervision) do the work themselves. My first big bike was built up from a bone pile of junked bicycles by my Dad and I when I was about 7. A couple of years later, I got a new 3 speed model for Christmas, and was constantly tinkering with it, and by the time I was 10 I was able to do just about anything it needed from adjusting the brakes to repairing a bent rim.

You're way off base.

[DerekLyons]

hopefully one wherein the guts are a bit exposed so that he can learn how a computer works rather than just treating it like a magic object (i.e., iPad)

Seriously, you think an iPad is a "magic object" and a CPU chip isn't?
 

Perhaps something in the $300 range that would be the computer equivalent of an old mechanical car engine?

There's no such thing, and never has been. Unless you're talking a behemoth like a difference engine, or a toy like one of the Lego/Tinkertoy computers... how an electronic computer works isn't visible without at *least* some form of multimeter or oscilloscope... or for a computer of any complexity (read: any consumer computer past the mid/late 80's) a fairly sophisticated analyzer.
 

Another way to think about it: I'm looking for the computer equivalent of teaching my son how to survive in the forest should the zombie apocalypse ever come.

This is about as muddled and confusing a statement as I've ever read in an Ask Slashdot - which is an achievement worthy of note. You don't even know what you want to teach him, beyond conforming to some dogma ("no magic box") and ideals ("survive the zombie apocalypse") you've picked up along the line and now repeat as though they were sensible and logical observations of reality. You're the Slashdot version of a cargo cultist.

What I would do

[kiriath]

Is buy parts for a PC off of some website, get a case with a clear side. Build it with him, teach him the importance of discharging static etc. Let him put the pieces together, tell him what each piece does.

You should be able to get parts for a standard PC relatively inexpensively.

Load the operating system with him, and explain what it does.

This is essentially how I got my start, I was about 9 years old I believe, it was an awesome experience! My Dad bought the parts from a magazine, we waiting the grueling week for it to come in. He watched over my shoulder as I assembled it, making sure I didn't do anything wrong. My Dad is awesome for many reasons and this is one of them.

I applaud your effort to get your son involved at an early age, and with the right mindset!

Don't Coddle

[JoeCommodore]

This article should be inspirational:

http://changelog.complete.org/archives/7562-i-introduced-my-5-year-old-and-2-year-old-to-startx-and-xmonad-theyre-delighted

The thing is kids can get stuff pretty quick if you don't put the fear of knowledge in them.

Get a computer that isn't a PC (or MAC)

[AK Marc]

Get him a programmable robot. The act of learning how a computer "thinks" is the best takeaway from an early computer experience, and even involves some programming, even if not in a language he'd ever use again. Plus, you get the reward of seeing it actually do something. Otherwise, get him a WoW account and treat the PC as a gaming console for all he'll learn from a computer.

So many here have the nostalgia of their first PC. Mine required that I program just about anything I wanted to do with them. I'd buy the magazines with fold-out programs in them, and spend hours typing and saving it to an audio tape. Then load it up later and play. Choplifter was the only game that I had to play that wasn't programmed by me.

Playing with the computer should require learning about the computer. The closest I've seen are the programmmable assembly-required robot kits where you can build what you want, then program it how you want. For the home PC, they made it so easy now, it's like learning about microwave communications by heating coffee in a microwave oven.

Instead

[arthurpaliden]

At 7, get him a set of throw away clothes and tell him to go out side and explore and don't get angry when he comes home filthy.

Wash, rinse and repeat...

Plenty of time for computers later.

Re:Raspberry Pi

[pnot]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Raspberry Pi pretty much what you're looking for?

fuck no, it's not. buying him a raspberry would be like buying someone a nes to get him into games industry. buying him a shitbox x86 and loading it with linux would work much better for all the things the rasp could teach him.

Saven-year-olds are already writing software using the Raspberry Pi.. It's say it would be absolutely ideal.

How about books?

[man_of_mr_e]

Or a better idea..

For $300 you buy a shitload of books, especially if you go to the used book store.

Re:How about books?

[Kittenman]

Or a better idea..

For $300 you buy a shitload of books, especially if you go to the used book store.

Damn right. Get him to share your PC, and buy him a set of Harry Potter/Tarzan/. Computer nerds are a dime-a-dozen. People who can use both language and a computer sensibly are harder to find.

However, this is /. - no doubt someone will soon suggest that you give the kid a block of metal and a smelter and get him to make his own PC the hard way, the way they did it.

Re:How about books?

[ShanghaiBill]

Or a better idea..

For $300 you buy a shitload of books, especially if you go to the used book store.

Or you could get him a library card, and he could get $300 worth of books every month and you will still have the original $300 to spend on a computer.

Re:Raspberry Pi

[Joce640k]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Raspberry Pi pretty much what you're looking for?

Two weeks ago I'd have said "no", but last week I got one of my own and I'm not so sure. They have far more potential than I would have imagined from the raw specs.

Today I'm going to say "yes", for three reasons:
a) You get a very visual, direct contact with the machine, you can even see/touch the PCB! (after grounding yourself...) Very good for zombie apocalypse.
b) You're also not going to be treated as a pure consumer of apps. Hands-on is essential (be prepared to help with the apt-get side of things).
c) If it doesn't work out like you imagined you only lost $35, it's no big deal. The keyboard/monitor will be useful for other things or you can cobble together a PC from old parts and he'll have a Pi and a PC to play with.

Re:Raspberry Pi

[Joce640k]

If you're poor (really really poor), then Raspberry pi is the way to go....

...the best choices would be an old office computer from where the questioner works, or used machine from a friend, or a clearance sale/open box.

Completely disagree.

Seven-year-olds need toys. A seven-year-old is going to be way more interested in a cute little PCB that you can hold in your hand and plug things into than an old beige box from an office.

No computer! Bad idea!

[pointyhat]

They don't need their own computer yet. Probably at 12 years old, but no sooner. They need to learn the fundamentals of what they are doing before they abstract it away with a computer.

I myself was slapped in front of a computer at the age of 5. I'm now sitting here on a sunday night, posting on Slashdot rather than doing something useful. Do you want that to be your kids?

Re:dude you're getting an old dell

[ColdWetDog]

I'm not so sure I like the idea of a 7 year old opening a desktop machine with mains voltages available.

Unless it's a dedicated battery system (say a Raspberry Pi) I would not allow a 7 year old unfettered access to any hardware. Too dangerous.

If the goal is to teach a kid about basic electronics / logic or similar, the Lego Mindstorm sounds like a much better idea.

Re:Used MacBook Pro

[Kergan]

No paranoid parent would/should give a 7 year old as something as breakable and valuable as a multi-hundred dollar laptop

FTFY. Seriously. Just explain to them that the device is fragile, and that NO fighting for it will be tolerated.

Kids, especially at age 4+, are by no means dumb or clumsy; if you tell them beforehand that they need to pay attention that it never drops on the floor, and show that you trust them, they'll pay attention and do their very best to deserve that trust -- to make daddy proud.

Sure, accidents can happen. But do you keep them in a sterile environment so they don't catch a cold?

(Fwiw, I've a tablet that got its first bumps and scratches due to a friend's 13-year old daughter. The fucking brat needed the entire dining room table room to do her homework, so she wiped everything on it to the floor: phone, tablet, laptop, you name it. At least three dozen 4-8 year olds and two cats had played with the tablet unsupervised prior to that event; it had no scratches.)

I did something similar for my kid

[Weaselmancer]

I took my old PC, wiped it clean and installed Windows XP on it. Avast anti virus. Ghosted the main drive to the second drive. Then unplugged the second drive.

Then turned him loose.

His desktop is littered with icons he made from testing the ideas of clicking and dragging. He somehow switched it to the High Contrast scheme. His browser has about a dozen toolbars. Which I think is interesting - it must be awfully easy to wind up with those. Don't hate your parents for installing them. It appears to happen almost by itself. On the plus side one of them plays Sonic the Hedgehog and he really likes that. A couple of old XP games, like Catz. He loves that.

He just clicks around and has fun. Supervised, of course. He's managed to do a fairly amazing number of things on his own. Watches youtube videos, has a few radio channels he found and likes, and so on.

If things get bad I'll restore the ghost image but for now he's having a blast.

LOL

[Archfeld]

I remember building a heathkit board that used huge chips to make a christmas tree light up.
Poke...Peek...

The parent has a point, start with a basic electronics kit and teach him about LOGIC...
Computers are simple if you learn from the ground up.