Cutting the Power Cable: How Advantageous Is Wireless Charging?

Lucas123 writes "Furniture and auto makers are already ramping up production of wireless charging for mobile devices that will also allow I/O for music and data synchronization. Thanks to the widely accepted Qi standard, there shouldn't be a problem with interoperability, but how advantageous is wireless charging? Would it really offer more charging opportunities for mobile users in coffee shops who are today hamstrung by how many outlets are available? And then there's the added cost and reduced efficiency. As wireless systems are more complicated, a wireless battery charger will be more expensive and there are resistive losses on the coil, stray coupling, etc."

Comments

It will have a certain cool factor at first

[crazyjj]

"Come to our hip coffee shop and charge wirelessly!" will attract a certain trendy crowd at first (maybe enough to justify the new furniture/equipment). But, in practice, it won't be much different than offering USB ports/outlets/ethernet ports/wireless service/etc. that a lot of places already offer. There are already a million places to connect and recharge in the big city. Aside from the initial cool factor, this one is no different. Things move so fast these days, it doesn't take very long for cool tech to turn into "so what?"

I just hope no one spills their coffee on the expensive new charging table.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Anonymous Coward]

"I just hope no one spills their coffee on the expensive new charging table."

It'll be waterproof. Nice feature. My electric toothbrush has had this for years.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[mcgrew]

I agree, its only value is the "coolness" factor (which only matters to those under 30). It won't be a real benefit unless it gets good enough that you can charge your phone without taking it out of your pocket. Plugging it in is no bigger a deal than laying it on a charging pad. If I could have a wireless charger that would charge it from across my living room, that would be great; I'd buy one. But to have to put it on a mat, using more electricity than if I plugged it in? No thanks.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[kelemvor4]

I agree, its only value is the "coolness" factor (which only matters to those under 30). It won't be a real benefit unless it gets good enough that you can charge your phone without taking it out of your pocket. Plugging it in is no bigger a deal than laying it on a charging pad. If I could have a wireless charger that would charge it from across my living room, that would be great; I'd buy one. But to have to put it on a mat, using more electricity than if I plugged it in? No thanks.

If you eliminate the need for a power connector, it would be pretty simple to start producing smartphones and other devices that are waterproof themselves. That would be a nice improvement. My last smartphone met with a watery grave. I see it as just a gimmick to add this onto an existing device, but for new devices designed around this it would be useful.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Plugging it in is no bigger a deal than laying it on a charging pad.

I bought one of those firesale HP touchpads. They have wireless charging with a special stand and it is the single best feature of the device. Plugging in to charge sucks - there is wear-and-tear on the mini-usb port, the fiddling to get everything lined up requires good lighting and too much time. With the wireless charging stand, it is dead simple - just put it on the stand, listen for the "bonk" sound the OS makes when charging starts and everything just works. It is so much more convenient that wireless charging is now mandatory for any of my future phone and tablet purchases.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[heypete]

I dunno, I have a ruggedized Samsung mobile phone. It's waterproof to 1 meter, dustproof, vibration resistant, etc. The microphone and speaker are behind impermeable membranes while the battery compartment and microUSB charging port are behind separate gasketed panels.

Every time I open the charging panel I put wear and tear on the gasket material. If I could wirelessly charge it then I'd only ever need to open it if I needed to change SIM cards, the battery, or the rare occasion where I'd need to plug it into the computer for some reason. Wireless charging, even on a charging pad, has some appeal to me.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Obfuscant]

If you eliminate the need for a power connector, it would be pretty simple to start producing smartphones and other devices that are waterproof themselves.

If you can waterproof the ubiquitous USB connection, then you can also waterproof any power connection, so wireless charging really adds nothing to the waterproofability of a device.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[mcelrath]

The power connector itself is a massive point of failure, as they get full of dust, dirt, bent, static discharge, etc. My girlfriend has gone through 4 phones essentially because the microUSB power connector failed. I recently had to do some minor surgery to my Galaxy Nexus because the power connector was slightly bent, so that it always showed that it was charging even when not connected.

Good riddance to wired power. I'd gladly take my phone it out of my pocket and place it on a pad. I can't wait until such charging pads can be built into couch arms, tables, desks, etc. I'll never have to worry about whether my devices are charged. And some of them could be physically sealed from dust and water, substantially increasing their lifetime. (If you can forgo the headphone jack, microphone, etc -- like a on tablet)

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[wbr1]

But is is coffee proof? Have you dunked your toothbrush in starbucks swill or a triple shot espresso? Tht may burn thrpung seals and gaskets.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[oji-sama]

Charging cables double as data cables. How would people react if you got rid of data cables entirely? Wireless syncing is nice, but I find I usually go for the cable. It's faster and has less chance of error, plus no drain on the phone's battery.

If the phone does the wireless syncing on the wireless charging pad there probably won't be much of drain on the phone's battery :)

I currently sync my phone and laptop via bluetooth without errors. Although I do use cable sometimes if I am in hurry or low on battery, so speed may be an issue. (But well, the cable option isn't actually disappearing yet...)

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Radres]

I would think that you would get wireless charging with the wireless sync, so it's pointless to worry about the drain on the phone's battery.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[phozz bare]

Apparently you coffee test all the electronics in your house before use.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[hawguy]

If you eliminate the need for a power connector, it would be pretty simple to start producing smartphones and other devices that are waterproof themselves. That would be a nice improvement.

Charging cables double as data cables. How would people react if you got rid of data cables entirely? Wireless syncing is nice, but I find I usually go for the cable. It's faster and has less chance of error, plus no drain on the phone's battery.

I didn't know people still used data cables for syncing with modern phones - I have a Galaxy Nexus and the only thing I've used the USB port for is charging. Everything else goes over Wifi or Bluetooth so I wouldn't miss it at all if the USB port went away and was replaced by wireless charging,

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[bkaul01]

Apparently you coffee test all the electronics in your house before use.

Clearly his keyboard failed the test:

But is is coffee proof? ... Tht may burn thrpung seals and gaskets.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[The Grim Reefer]

I bought one of those firesale HP touchpads. They have wireless charging with a special stand and it is the single best feature of the device. Plugging in to charge sucks - there is wear-and-tear on the mini-usb port, the fiddling to get everything lined up requires good lighting and too much time. With the wireless charging stand, it is dead simple - just put it on the stand, listen for the "bonk" sound the OS makes when charging starts and everything just works. It is so much more convenient that wireless charging is now mandatory for any of my future phone and tablet purchases.

I'll agree with you on the wear and tear. I've had that issue with several devices. But either the touchpad is piss poorly designed, or you must be extremely blind and clumsy. It's a micro USB connector. What is there to "line up"? It goes in one way, and one way only (without a hammer). I have the same connector on my phone. It takes me all of one second to plug it in, if that. I can't say I've tried to plug it in in total darkness, but where I generally charge it, there is nowhere near what I would consider good lighting. Certainly not enough to read by. I'd probably use wireless charging if my phone came with it, but I'm not interested in paying extra for something that a cable I already have does just fine.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Sebastopol]

Hmm.. i disagree. tossing my phone on to the couch is a lot easier than lining up the dastardly adapter in the fragile charging stand, or having to dink with cables and find an outlet. maybe i'm just super lazy, but i really like the sound of not having to fuss with adapters, and i'm over 40.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[rgbatduke]

A very few smartphone manufacturers are making phones already that are shockproof and waterproof. My Casio, for example, is supposed to survive 30 minutes one meter underwater or being dropped a couple of meters onto concrete. All it takes is sealed caps on the ports (although I don't plan to TEST my Casio until I do it accidentally:-). My wife's iPhone, OTOH, was fried by a single lousy drop of water in its enormously wide and entirely nonstandard (well, except for Apple's own "standards") charging/playing port. Which voids the warranty (and of course trips a little colored switch so that they know you voided the warranty and all service plans) which then means you can drop a few hundred more getting a replacement even if you have insurance. So much for Apple's "superior" engineering...

Personally, I hate all of the charging ports. They suck. Micro and regular USB arguably suck the least -- at least they are open standards and one charger or USB cable works for all devices more or less. But they still die (unless sealed when not in use) with as little as a single drop of water. The cost of one phone is far, far greater than the cost of wasted power over the lifetime of ten phones, I would guestimate. But still, why can't anyone seem to engineer an unbreakable, waterproof charging port? How hard can it be?

rgb

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[wonkey_monkey]

If you can waterproof the ubiquitous USB connection

Right. So, can you? Because if you can't, it renders the rest of your statement moot.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Motorola Quantico.

USB charging, and can be left in water for half an hour with no ill effects.

I know that's no good to everyone but me, but I just need a phone - one that won't be destroyed when I'm riding my Motorcycle in an unexpected downpour.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[havana9]

Older phones had more rugged connectors. I've a DECT cordless phone that has two metallic plates that make contact with two spring-mounted electrode, put in the cradle, the weight of the handset is sufficent to slide the phone in the contacts. The same method is used on two way radios, where it's a necessity due the higher charge current used. Unfortunately with current smartphones, the space required for a rugged connector is too big to blend in thei sllek design, so weak connectors are used, that could fail easily.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Urza9814]

I cannot understand this. If you (or your girlfriend) are breaking your ports that easily, either you're buying crap phones or you're putting them through some SERIOUS abuse. I've got a 7 year old phone in my pocket right now, and guess what? Nothing's broken. Not a single connector. And I do have a somewhat nasty habit of pulling the device from the nightstand to my bed by yanking on the charging cable....

Of all the devices I've ever owned, I've only ever had two ports break -- one was a USB port on the front of my desktop PC (actually, the port was fine, just the little plastic bit inside snapped off. A touch of superglue and it's good as new.) The other was the headphone jack on a first generation iPod nano, which died around two years ago. Did a frankenstein fix on that with a random Radioshack jack I had sitting around, and it still works fine too.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Belial6]

Wireless charging means that accessories can be made that work with any device. Plugging in cables is WAY more of a hassle than just sliding the phone into slot, or setting it on a pad. The connectors also have a tendency to break. Wireless charging is just a bit more useful than Bluetooth.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[hoggoth]

Yes, you can. Waterproof the port, allow the conductive to pass through the waterproofed port. Set up a second ground/power pair that is ONLY used to detect when the device is submerged in a conductive medium and use that to disable the other pins avoiding a short circuit.

The metal pins still won't be happy to be submerged in a corrosive salt-water solution but if you rinse it off right away it should be ok.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[EdIII]

It's just a couple of prongs that make a connection. It's easy to waterproof the connector, it's not so easy to make the act of connecting it waterproof.

I can think of several ways to allow you to connect something underwater while maintaining waterproof capabilities, but then it would cease to be a USB cable.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Obfuscant]

Right. So, can you? Because if you can't, it renders the rest of your statement moot.

Not moot. It proves the point. Going to wireless charging removes one (or maybe zero, if you charge via USB to start with) holes in the case. If you can't waterproof the USB connection, then having no charging connection doesn't make the device waterproof. You still have the USB port that lets water in.

OTH, if you CAN waterproof the USB connection, then you can do the same to the charging connection, and you will have just as waterproof a device as one without a charging connection.

In other words, since there is a USB port that still needs to be waterproofed, simply converting to wireless charging buys you nothing WRT waterproofability. You have to get rid of all entry points to be waterproof, not just the charging port.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[hawguy]

I didn't know people still used data cables for syncing with modern phones - I have a Galaxy Nexus and the only thing I've used the USB port for is charging. Everything else goes over Wifi or Bluetooth so I wouldn't miss it at all if the USB port went away and was replaced by wireless charging,

For Android toys like the Nexus a Wifi/BT Connection is fast enough, but for professional use i prefer a fast reliable wired connection.

I don't think think wireless charging was meant to work for everyone's application - I charge by phone via USB, but my walkie-talkie at work is charged in a drop-in charger. What is this professional phone use that requires USB versus Wifi speeds?

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Belial6]

First you have to look and see if the plug is right side up, or up-side down. Then you have to follow the octopus of cables to get the one that isn't already in use, since you can't use a generic dock.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[PhotoJim]

I just toss my phone into the cradle I bought for it. It's far easier to line up than a naked connector, and as a bonus, I have a hardware audio connection with my phone as a result.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[kelemvor4]

I didn't know people still used data cables for syncing with modern phones - I have a Galaxy Nexus and the only thing I've used the USB port for is charging. Everything else goes over Wifi or Bluetooth so I wouldn't miss it at all if the USB port went away and was replaced by wireless charging,

I use usb most of the time to load media onto my phone, or to copy photos and videos off of it. It's easier than removing the microSD card because of the hard to remove otterBox case I've got. I could easily eliminate it by loading up an samba. Since I have to plug in for power anyway I haven't bothered, but with 802.11n the performance shouldn't be all that bad.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[hawguy]

you eliminate the need for a power connector, it would be pretty simple to start producing smartphones and other devices that are waterproof themselves. That would be a nice improvement. My last smartphone met with a watery grave. I see it as just a gimmick to add this onto an existing device, but for new devices designed around this it would be useful.

If you can eliminate the need for a power connector, and make wireless power ubiquitous enough, we can also eliminate the battery.

No available wireless power transmission method is meant for long-range (beyond a few mm or centimeters) transmission of power so I don't think there's any chance of batteries going away in the near term.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[hoggoth]

Eliminating the battery would be great as long as you can manage to make it through your day never getting more than a few inches from a charging station. I envision thousands of miles of charging trays built into every sidewalk, wainscott, chair-rail, railing, escalator, and countertop. You could have hanging charge-lines you could take with you when you cross streets like the overhead power used for trolley-cars.

Or were you thinking they could use mega-capacitors instead of batteries to hold you over for a few seconds while you made a mad dash to the next charging station?
Maybe Slippery-Pete could help you set up a portable battery with just enough juice to get across the street...

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Obfuscant]

It's easy to waterproof the connector, it's not so easy to make the act of connecting it waterproof.

A waterproof device doesn't mean you have to be able to connect external cables to it while underwater, only that it is impervious to water while it is submerged. I don't think many people are going to say "gee, I have to connect this phone to the USB cable while it's still in the toilet."

Seacon, for example, makes lots of waterproof connections, but many of those are not underwater mateable, they need to be connected while on land and then they can be submerged without damage.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[EdIII]

Sorry, from the context it seemed like USB was not only required as the charging method, but as a data sharing method. Waterproofing the connection alone seemed insufficient, and mateable while having some water in the connector is what I thought the question was.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[SleazyRidr]

Seriously, when did we start spelling out everyone's jokes?

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[PatDev]

Seriously, when did we start spelling out everyone's jokes?

This is funny because SleazyRidr is expressing exasperation with a phozz bare's and bkaul01's either failure to grasp or insistence on re-emphasizing the punchline of the joke originally made by wbr1. There is also a possibility that SleazyRidr intended some irony by commenting on jokes starting with "Seriously"

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[kelemvor4]

If you can waterproof the ubiquitous USB connection

Right. So, can you? Because if you can't, it renders the rest of your statement moot.

...and trying to do it is quite a gamble.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[lennier]

Eliminating the battery would be great as long as you can manage to make it through your day never getting more than a few inches from a charging station. I envision thousands of miles of charging trays built into every sidewalk, wainscott, chair-rail, railing, escalator, and countertop. You could have hanging charge-lines you could take with you when you cross streets like the overhead power used for trolley-cars.

Thank you for that awesome 1930s-radiopunk-dystopia mental image.

Seriously, I want a wallpaper of that.

(Once a day, like clockwork, New York City shuts down as Pirate Nikola Tesla broadcasts tendrils of free charge-lightning all across the Eastern Seaboard from his secret Magnifying Transmitter base. Desperate power-hungry citizens raise dirty vacuum tubes to the heavens to harvest illegal St Elmo's Fire. Meanwhile mammoth Edison Company marketing dirigibles, fresh from destroying the Martian invading force, drop Tripods full of patent lawyers in the Los Angeles desert to storm Fortress Hollywood...)

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[phozz bare]

wbr1's original statement didn't work as a joke in my opinion. Others seem to agree: at the moment it has not a single 'funny' moderation. I made an attempt to make it funnier but, in retrospect, failed miserably. This thread had potential but we're not exactly getting comedy gold here. Sorry folks, nothing to see here...

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[foniksonik]

iPhones no longer need/use a USB port. Everything is wireless except charging.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[SleazyRidr]

I interpereted it that wbr1 had just typo'd or whatever, then you made a joke about that, then bkaul01 felt the need to spell out your joke. For the record I thought you were pretty funny, not funny enough for me to spontaneously coffee test my keyboard, but enough for a small smile.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[LurkerXXX]

The Palm Pre (HP Pre after HP bought Palm) phones had the same wireless charging, and with magnetic charging stands. It was easy to have a stand on your desk at work, at home, and one on the car's dash, so that wherever you were, you could just set the phone down, have it stuck in place and charging until you were ready to move again.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Anonymous Coward]

I also got one of the firesale HP Touchpads and the wireless charging stand and it is great. I leave the charging stand in my room as an alarm clock. It really is great, just set it on the stand and you're done. A great reason to try to find a Touchpad. The wireless charger was something like $75 originally and I think I paid $30. Yes, the Touchpad is thicker/heavier as a result but it's worth it.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[valentinas]

I don't think the connector is the issue. Couple of other things that might be harder:

• Ventilation - it's hard to keep the components cool in airtight space
• Sound - if microphone and speakers are behind some sort of waterproof stuff then you might sound like you are underwater, even if you aren't
• Maintenance - sealed things are harder to repair

Besides there already are some waterproof and water resistant smartphones, like sony xperia go and panasonic eluga.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Neil Boekend]

The contacts could be gold plated to prevent chemical corrosion. Since there is power there is probably a way to protect from galvanic corrosion (or use a sacrificial galvanic anode. Dunno if that'll work with gold though).
Despite the name, gold plating isn't really expensive. The most expensive part is the name.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Neil Boekend]

There are IP67 waterproof USB cables. These have a screw-on mantle to protect the plug from water. You can insert a normal USB plug in these ports and these cables can be inserted in a normal USB port (but in both cases you lose the waterproofness).

I haven't seen a solution to connect it under water while maintaining waterproofness. There may be some (conductive) water between the contacts after the seal is tightened, creating a short. If I were to design an USB connector for that I'd try a slow flow of compressed air to force the water out.

Then again: none of these solutions are really in a size applicable for a phone.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[rdwulfe]

You know, I just realized that the modding here is insufficient. This, this post, right here, needs (Score:5 Awesome).

I laughed a lot, thank you.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Big Hairy Ian]

If you can forgo the headphone jack, microphone, etc -- like a on tablet

Bluetooth anyone?

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[bemymonkey]

"its only value is the "coolness" factor"

Not really... If I don't need to carry around a USB charger for my phone and a laptop charger, that's great value for me. Even going with the smallest AC adapters offered by my laptop's manufacturer, the charger and the corresponding power cable easily make up 5-10% of my bag's weight... and if I'm constantly surrounded by furniture with built in charging pads, there's no need for a big heavy battery - this could make leaving the house with a 4-cell or 6-cell battery viable, which shaves another few hundred grams off the weight I need to carry.

It's even more apparent with ultrabooks, where the sleekness of the machine often makes the AC adapter seem even bullkier...

Now if there was a unified charging tip for all portable electronic devices (say MicroUSB) including laptops and tablets, and there was a powered cable lying on every table in every coffee shop, and you had one in every room at home, then yeah - no added value.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Joce640k]

Exactly how lazy/self entitled do you have to be to want this?

Part of the problem is that there's no standard for power connectors. We all seem to be moving to 5V because of USB but the connector still isn't decided.

PS: Micro USB is a rubbish connector for power. Far too small and fiddly in use. No connector should take three attempts to connect it so make them round. Center pin connectors aren't needed any more with modern wall warts so something like a headphone jack would be good.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Joce640k]

If you eliminate the need for a power connector, it would be pretty simple to start producing smartphones and other devices that are waterproof themselves. That would be a nice improvement

Yeah, there's no way a power connector could ever be sealed...

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Joce640k]

Plugging in to charge sucks - there is wear-and-tear on the mini-usb port, the fiddling to get everything lined up requires good lighting and too much time.

That's a problem with the USB connector, not the cable.

The 'problem' would vanish if the connector was round like a headphone jack. Docks can have a power connector in the bottom, they don't have to be wireless.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Joce640k]

It's a micro USB connector. What is there to "line up"? It goes in one way, and one way only

Huh? All USB connectors are designed so it takes three attempts to connect them.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Joce640k]

The power connector itself is a massive point of failure, as they get full of dust, dirt, bent, static discharge, etc. My girlfriend has gone through 4 phones essentially because the microUSB power connector failed.

That's a problem with the connector, not the cable.

USB is a poor choice for a power connector.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[hazydave]

My toothbrush is very coffee proof.. of course, the simple act of brushing my teeth is a test of that. I had a laptop, once, that did not prove so immune to a 16oz cup of coffee being dumped on the keyboard. So yeah, coffee testing is very important here (sadly, that same laptop, after repairs, was seriously injured when kicked across a room by a runaway robot. Didn't kill it, but it was never the same).

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[mcgrew]

Not really... If I don't need to carry around a USB charger for my phone and a laptop charger, that's great value for me.

If your phone won't stay charged for a whole day, that's a design flaw in the phone. My phone holds a charge for three or four days of moderate use, two or three with heavy use. I plug it in at night and don't have to worry about finding a charger.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[mcgrew]

Wireless charging means that accessories can be made that work with any device.

USB

Plugging in cables is WAY more of a hassle than just sliding the phone into slot, or setting it on a pad

If you have Parkinson's or DTs maybe.

The connectors also have a tendency to break.

?? I've never seen a broken connector, and I got my first cell phone about 15 years ago. I guess some companies produce some really cheap crap.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[bemymonkey]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but any modern smartphone will be drained after using it as a 3G/4G hotspot for a few hours... or a few hours of gaming if you're so inclined. Yes, I usually make it home with 50-60% to spare, but on days with heavy use, such as when WiFi is down at whatever place I'm working from, the phone needs to be charged after 4 or 5 hours...

Considering the fact that my phone is permanently online on Skype, MSN, ICQ, GTalk and IRC, always reachable via SIP (which requires a constant connection to the server), and runs location-aware apps that are constantly polling the GPS and WiFi location hardware, I'd actually call the battery life I'm getting "excellent".

I have a Sony Ericsson featurephone I carry around as a second line that lasts about a week or two... but that's useless for anything other than making phone calls.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[jmactacular]

"No thanks?" Do you sleep with your phone in your pocket? =) Gotta put it down sometime. Why not on a mat. Saves the plug in step, that's something. Innovation is always incremental. It'll get better.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[marcosdumay]

There is nothing enforcing a difference of potential between pins of a phone USB connector (the same does not apply to a PC). If you drop it in condictive liquid, there will be just some capacitive discharge, and no further current will flow.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[ajlisows]

My phone is old and the power connector is pretty touchy now. Some mornings I wake up and find my phone hasn't charged at all. A charging mat would be nice for situations like this. Not really an earth shattering improvement, but slightly helpful.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[chrismcb]

Plugging it in is no bigger a deal than laying it on a charging pad.

That may be true, but do you know how many times I've forgotten to plug my phone in to charge it? Lots. How many times have I forgot to set the phone down? Not very many.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[chrismcb]

What is there to "line up"? It goes in one way, and one way only (without a hammer)

IF it only goes in one way... you have to line it up! An rca plug you don't have to line up. A mini usb adapter? It has to be lined up. It is much easier than some other plugs, but it isn't as simple as an rca plug.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Belial6]

Just having to find the end of the cord takes 10x as long as just setting the phone down. Claiming that finding the end of the cord, turning the phone to line up the plug with the socket, and plugging it in before you just set the phone down is simply silly. Is it the end of the world to plug the phone in? No. But, it isn't the end of the world to get up and change the channel on the TV either. Even so, virtually every TV sold, now has a wireless remote. Of course, when remotes first started going mainstream, there were plenty of people that claimed they were useless also, since it isn't that hard to get up and change the channel with the buttons on the TV.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Obfuscant]

iPhones no longer need/use a USB port. Everything is wireless except charging.

Really? According to this, the iPhone 5 which was just released has a proprietary USB connection and computer sync (in addition to "OTA sync"). I also see an earphone connection. Both wired connections appear to have nothing to make them waterproof.

I guess Apple doesn't agree that nobody needs a USB port and everything is wireless except for charging. Maybe they know they have customers who might want to connect it to their computer to transfer data, instead of maxing out their data plans transporting movies and music there.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[mcgrew]

Mine's not an iPhone or Droid, but I can still text, email, and get on the internet, and its battery is pretty small. Maybe Motorola has all the good engineers? Too bad the software on it sucks, though.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[bemymonkey]

That's the thing... you're still using a phone, while everyone else has moved on to portable computers... no wonder you're getting better battery life ;)

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[mcgrew]

I think the charging mat will have similar problems when it ages. Nothing lasts forever.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[mcgrew]

It has internet, email, pac-man, a qwerty keyboard... how is it not a computer?

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[mcgrew]

They've had remotes since TVs were invented. back then, they called remotes "kids" and were voice-activated. Of course a remote is superflous when you have kids!

As to the phone, my charger's charging end sits on the living room end table.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[Belial6]

Your response is an acknowledgement that wireless charging is more practical. Not an argument against it.

Re:It will have a certain cool factor at first

[mcgrew]

You know, I've been thinking about this over the weekend and I've changed my opinion. You guys are right.

Not new

[michaelmalak]

For anyone who's followed their dentist's advice, wireless charging is not new.

Re:Not new

[bmimatt]

... and we should all say 'Thank you Mr. Tesla'.

Re:Not new

[kelemvor4]

For anyone who's followed their dentist's advice, wireless charging is not new.

Error: File not found Looks like you've asked for a file that doesn't exist, try out the search below to find what you are looking for, which searches across all the MetaFilter sites.

Re:Not new

[PNutts]

Thomas Edison Was A Douche (The Oatmeal!)

Re:Not new

[firex726]

As I recall induction charging is OK for a toothbrush that you only use for a few minutes a day and has hours to charge, and has a low draw on the battery. Smartphone is basically opposite of that.

Re:Not new

[Culture20]

Must be a godaddy site.

Re:Not new

[compro01]

It's working for me.

Re:Not new

[Asmodae]

Uhm... what?
Tesla's ideas and theories for 'broadcast' power were nothing like reality.

Re:Not new

[bmimatt]

Hey dope, ever heard of induction?  Go read a little.

Re:Not new

[Asmodae]

Sure, but what's that got to do with Tesla's ideas? Not much in fact. Just because there is a superficial resemblance: "power transferred without wires" doesn't mean he was anywhere near reality. Anymore than the Startrek writers should get credit for being computer scientists or physicists if they happen to guess lucky. As they saying goes, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Efficiency should kill it

[aaarrrgggh]

Efficiency alone is such a big problem that it is hard to imagine it getting widely adopted before regulators kill it.

It is much more logical to push for common connectors.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[Barlo_Mung_42]

We pretty much already have common connectors with the exception of Apple.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[Quiet_Desperation]

So buy a better fridge or something. There. You just carbon credited about ten years of phone charging.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it will be killed because some dilhole celebrity will say, "wireless charging causes cancer / retardation / some other ludicrous thing". That will be a much bigger killer than the hysteresis loss.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[mdielmann]

OTOH, my 2.0A Nextar brand (maybe, bought at the Source) micro works for both my Blackberry and my girlfriend's Samsung. Brand doesn't really matter when you use a standard, just the right connector and output amperage (voltage is covered in the spec).

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[WolfWithoutAClause]

These devices use very little power.

A typical person in the Western world uses, on average, 2+ kW. That's not 2kWh per day, that's 2+ kWh EACH AND EVERY HOUR.

These devices that are proposed to be charged wirelessly are usually just a few watts, about 1/1000 of what the person is using; so even if the power efficiency halved for those particular devices, it would make essentially sod-all difference.

The other thing is that in many cases if it's easier to recharge, then you don't need such a big battery; batteries are incredibly expensive compared to wall supplied power.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[PNutts]

...though I'm sure the iPhone crowd will probably find they can't do without it.

Considering the iPhone doesn't have it and there are a growing number of "I can't live without it" posts from folks who already have it I agree with you. Nice try, but a miss on the Apple bashing.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[pixelpusher220]

Hmmm, how about wirelessly powered light fixtures? We can use incandescent bulbs again since we aren't worried about efficiency!

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[PNutts]

Indeed. There is nothing 'green' about it, though I'm sure the iPhone crowd will probably find they can't do without it.

Let's see how the Nokia crowd get on with it first shall we...

Hopefully both of them will come in and post.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[kheldan]

Seriously, this.
I just don't get why this is such a popular idea, unless I remind myself that the average person is more or less technically uneducated, and doesn't understand that it's wildly energy inefficient. Also, echoing other comments on this topic: This is far from a new idea, and again: there are reasons we haven't gone this way before, but nobody seems to understand that.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[cduffy]

well, this sounds funny, particularly since nowadays, you can get an iphone charger anywhere, but good luck trying to find a nokia, rim or samsung one...

Because Nokia, RIM and Samsung are all doing the sane thing and standardizing on MicroUSB.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[Algae_94]

A typical person in the Western world uses, on average, 2+ kW. That's not 2kWh per day, that's 2+ kWh EACH AND EVERY HOUR.

Can you back this up a bit? You're saying that the average Westerner uses 48+ kWh every day. That's well over a megaWatt hour every month (and closer to 1.5 MWh). Does this figure include the average person's share of the power used for street lights, traffic lights, businesses, etc.?

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[bkaul01]

Well, except for all that's involved in manufacturing the new fridge, discharging the refrigerant, disposing of the old one, etc. ...

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[hawguy]

Efficiency alone is such a big problem that it is hard to imagine it getting widely adopted before regulators kill it.

It is much more logical to push for common connectors.

As long as it doesn't use much standby power, efficiency during charging shouldn't be that big of a factor.

My phone battery holds around 8Watt-hours of power, so even if the charger is only 50% efficient, that means 8Wh of power wasted for each charge.

8 Wh wasted every day for a year is 3Kwh, or around 45 cents of power (depending on where you live).

In comparison, an EnergyStar rated TV is allowed to consume up to 1W of power in sleep mode, so if your TV is powered off 16 hours a day, it will waste 16Wh of power each day, or about twice as much power as you're wasting by using a wireless charger to charge your phone.

Granted, 8Wh/day across hundreds of millions of people is a lot of energy, but also, hundreds of millions of plug-in chargers and cables also ads up to a lot of wasted resources, if everyone had one powermat for their devices and didn't receive a new plug-in charger with each device, that would eliminate a lot of resource waste.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[oji-sama]

Seriously, this. I just don't get why this is such a popular idea, unless I remind myself that the average person is more or less technically uneducated, and doesn't understand that it's wildly energy inefficient. Also, echoing other comments on this topic: This is far from a new idea, and again: there are reasons we haven't gone this way before, but nobody seems to understand that.

Nothing serious about the inefficiency. We are not talking about cars, we are talking about 5W chargers...

I would read this with a pinch of salt (I probably would not often charge two devices at the same time), but it is pretty informative. http://www.wirelesspowerconsortium.com/technology/total-energy-consumption.html

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[hawguy]

Indeed. There is nothing 'green' about it, though I'm sure the iPhone crowd will probably find they can't do without it.

It just bleeds energy into the atmosphere. Running your GPU at full tilt to generate BitCoins might be less dangerous.

What are you talking about? A wireless charger doesn't radiate Watts of energy into the air when there's no device on the charging mat. Standby power use should be around the same as a traditional charger - the wireless power consortium claims they have test devices that are as low as .0001W of standby power, but they don't say what currently shipping chargers are at.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[hawguy]

Seriously, this.
I just don't get why this is such a popular idea, unless I remind myself that the average person is more or less technically uneducated, and doesn't understand that it's wildly energy inefficient. Also, echoing other comments on this topic: This is far from a new idea, and again: there are reasons we haven't gone this way before, but nobody seems to understand that.

Since you're so technically educated, please explain how it's so energy inefficient? A wireless charging device is essentially half of a transformer (your phone is the other half). Transformer efficiency can exceed 99%. But since the wireless charging mat is not a perfect transformer (an air gap is not as efficient as a metal core), efficiency will be lower, but I don't see why it can't exceed 90%. Do you have documentation for this low efficiency claim?

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[Urza9814]

Uh, I've found micro USB chargers at _gas stations_. Dunno about Nokia, but I've never seen a RIM or Samsung device that used anything different. Haven't yet seen an Apple charger at a 7/11, though I'm sure some stock those as well...

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[PIBM]

I don't know how you reach that number, but for my family of 5, in a large house with lots of window in a very northern location that gets very cold in the winter and needs a lot of lighting, with tons of computers & devices, we only manage to reach a yearly average of a bit less than 3kW. That's less than 0.6kW per occupant.

Not that I am not seeing your point, I just hate that over 83% of all statistics like those come from nowhere!

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[Carewolf]

If it includes fuel. then I am surprised it isn't higher. An empty house with all the light turned off uses between 1-2kW just from running refrigerator, freezer and stand-by power for all the electronic junk plus heating and/or air-conditioning (well 3-4kW if A/C is actually turned on).

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[daenris]

My 30-day average electricity usage last year was 541kWh and that's for 2 people. This year so far it's 803, but that's for 3 people. My highest month ever was 1716kWh for 3 people, which was due to the AC running pretty much all the time the whole month. So I also have a hard time believing those numbers as an average.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[ArsenneLupin]

Bullshit. I actually did the measurement/calculation: My fully used apartment (with fridge, lights, computer on 24/24 7/7, the occasional dishwasher and washing machine...) uses around 260W on average, i.e. ten times less than what you claim.

Empty (i.e. just the fridge), its 90W

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[ArsenneLupin]

Transformer efficiency can exceed 99%. But since the wireless charging mat is not a perfect transformer (an air gap is not as efficient as a metal core), efficiency will be lower, but I don't see why it can't exceed 90%. Do you have documentation for this low efficiency claim?

Actually, the article does claim a 90% efficiency. However, this is really hard do imagine, as the device won't be perfectly aligned on the mat (or else it would be just too fumbly to use), so I'd expect higher losses than that.

Or do these mats actually somehow sense the device's position, and selectively only switch on those coil parts that are aligned with the device's coil?

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[ThosLives]

What kind of house, refrigerator, etc. is that?

The grand total power usage in my house for me and my wife only averages about 9 kW-hr per day, which is an average of 375W. When we were running our A/C in the hottest part of the summer we only averaged 14kW-hr/day, which is still significantly less than 1kW.

48 kW-hr/day most surely includes other sources, most likely transportation.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[WolfWithoutAClause]

There's lots of electricity in things that aren't in your house, in street lights, shops, factories etc. etc.

The total energy per capita for example is over 5kW in the UK for example (10kW in America), check out the final column in this table:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_consumption_per_capita

Things like mobile phones are completely irrelevant really, and laptops are pretty much irrelevant.

I saw a number which was ~2kW by an academic for the UK, that IRC would have been electricity only (presumably he took total electricity supply and divided by population).

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[WolfWithoutAClause]

Yeah, everything.

That was IRC the number for the UK. The total energy use per capita is even higher.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[xaxa]

I think you should really check if a neighbour is stealing your electricity or something -- 1-2 to 3-4kW is huge! Alternatively, buying a power meter might let you find what's eating your power, and replace it -- a new appliance could pay for itself within a year or two.

I make a normal effort to keep energy usage low -- I intend to turn off lights in rooms I'm not in (but often forget), buy energy efficient light bulbs, and feel I should unplug (or rather, switch off on the wall socket, since these are British sockets) unused stuff, but almost always forget the last one. The flat is rented, but most of the appliances are only a couple of years old, and are good quality.

According to the power usage meter the electricity company sent, my flat is using 190W right now.

Turning stuff off:
- My desktop was using 40W.
- The amplifier (which wasn't playing anything), 5W
- This laptop (finished charging), 20W
- Flatmate's laptop (switched off, finished charging) 15W
- Unplugging my flatmates switched-off finished-charging laptop, 110W.
- Lights in this room, 30W
- Turned off desktop and standby monitor, 20W (!)
- Flatmate's turned off desktop and standby monitor, 22W (!)
- Wireless router, 6W
- The lighting circuits at the breaker box, 0W (good!)
- Breaker "kitchen sockets", 16W (I think that's the clock on the oven)
- I think the fridge/freezer must have been cold enough to not be running, since turning them off made no difference. They should use about 20W on average over a year.

The meter now reads 16W.

(Switching back on what actually needs to be on, I'm back up to 130W, and I've realised the remaining 16W is a Raspberry Pi, an alarm clock, and a phone charger with no phone attached.)

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[aXis100]

When people say that a new power station will power xxxx many houses, they are usually going on the rate of 1kW per house - for a total of 24kWh per day. That's per household, not per person. No-where near 2kW.

Now, not sure sure how we account for daytime commercial / work usage, maybe that's enough to bump it up a fair bit.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[mirix]

Seems kind of disingenuous to include aluminium smelters that use more power than a small city, in 'personal consumption'.

but yeah, per capita total consumption, sure.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[WolfWithoutAClause]

Well, essentially everyone uses aluminium in the modern world, so I don't really find that disingenuous.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[Joce640k]

Mini USB is a pretty poor choice for a power connector standard...

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[kelemvor4]

Why? it works great.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[marcosdumay]

Too bad, it is the one we made.

If manufacturers cared about making good products, they could have choosed something better, but they don't, so we only got to standardize on a data cable. It is not important enough to bother with anyway.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[kheldan]

..I don't see why it can't exceed 90%

<citation needed>

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[hawguy]

..I don't see why it can't exceed 90%

<citation needed>

http://www.wirelesspowerconsortium.com/technology/transfer-efficiency.html

A high efficiency (>90%) can be achieved at close distance (z/D < 0.1) and for coils of similar size (D2/D = 0.5..1)

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[kheldan]

..at a close distance

In real life? Not as likely as you wish it was, and the inverse square law fully applies. I just don't see this as anything other than a sales gimmick. People should be glad that most things can be charged via USB these days instead of being forced to use proprietary chargers.

Re:Efficiency should kill it

[hawguy]

..at a close distance

In real life? Not as likely as you wish it was, and the inverse square law fully applies. I just don't see this as anything other than a sales gimmick. People should be glad that most things can be charged via USB these days instead of being forced to use proprietary chargers.

If I'm reading their chart right, if the coils are 5cm in diameter, then they just need to be within 5mm of each other for 90% efficiency (5mm / 50mm = 0.1)

5mm seems more than reasonable for a charging mat, even with a case on the phone. That gives you 1mm to cover the coils in the mat, and up to 4m for the case and back of the phone.

Interoperable until Apple gets bright ideas...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks to the widely accepted Qi standard, there shouldn't be a problem with interoperability [...]

Just then, Tim Cook looked at that with a cold, calculated expression, and simply responded, "Challenge accepted".

Great for the forgetful

[randomencounter]

I know a few people who would actually remember to charge their phones given wireless tech that don't now.

All they need is to put the charger by their bed and they're set.

Re:Great for the forgetful

[Joce640k]

How would that be different than having a power dock on their bedside table?

(Apart from taking up more space, costing a lot more and being less efficient...)

why is it better?

[alen]

i just plug my iphone into my laptop all day and not think about it. at home its into the wall

what does wireless charging give me?

Re:why is it better?

[Anonymous Coward]

Less clutter, less wires to keep track off where they are when it's not plugged in, less wear and tear on the ports (which are often the first part to break)... Do I need to get into details?

In my group of friends over the past five years or so I can recall three broken phones due to wear and tear on the micro usb port - these all being people who NEVER use it for data transferring.... And two that broke because they were charging and a dog in one case and a thoughtless move in the other caught a cable and sent the attached phone crashing to the floor.... That's a total of five phones that would have been completely saved by this technology. And that's just from one wire.

Less clutter also means a cleaner desktop, which some people think is a big deal, and some people don't. But most people outside of their mother's basement at least know that clutter is bad.

Re:why is it better?

[hawguy]

i just plug my iphone into my laptop all day and not think about it. at home its into the wall

what does wireless charging give me?

It would give you a few seconds of your time back each day. Instead of having to plug it in to your laptop when you get to work, unplug it when you leave, plug it in when you get home, unplug it when you leave, you could just drop it on the charging mat at night when you go to bed and you're done. No cables to plug in.

Re:why is it better?

[guttentag]

You don't want the wireless mechanism in your phone, so you plug your phone into a special device that has the mechanism, and then you put the combined monstrosity on the designated wireless surface. Then you get to spend more money on the electricity to charge your phone because of the inefficiency of the mechanism. But you get to call your mom, from your wireless phone, and say, "look, Ma! No wires!"

Rage Comic

[Quiet_Desperation]

Panel 1: Phone runs out of juice
Panel 2: Put phone on wireless charger
Panel 3: Hmm... wireless energy transfer...
Panel 4: I am Nikola Tesla!
Panel 5: Me gusta!
Panel 6: Extra panel. Ignore.

A lot of charging is already wireless.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no conduction between the primary and secondary winding of a transformer, such as what is found in all kinds of power supplies including some charger wall bugs.

On the flip side of less efficient charging...

[Darus77]

Many devices may last longer due to the USB charging port getting less (ab)use. I can't even begin to count how many people i know that destroyed the charge port on their phones despite careful handling.

Re:On the flip side of less efficient charging...

[pspahn]

This this this.

I'm thinking about a bag similar to what is offered by Voltaic Systems, but with wireless charging instead.

I bike and wear a backpack, and have been looking at rolling a custom thing from some of Voltaic's parts, and to think that if there was wireless charging capability, I would never have to worry about my devices bouncing around in my bag while connected to a laptop or battery to charge.

Someone build this and let me test the prototype =).

Re:On the flip side of less efficient charging...

[jtownatpunk.net]

I came here to say the same thing. A decade ago, my phones had power/data connections designed so the plug would fail, protecting the phone, and could be replaced cheaply. Look at the business end of an Ericsson T28 for an example. You could drop it from several feet up directly on the plug and the plug itself would absorb much of the impact's energy as it popped free from the phone. Same with my Motorola iDEN phone. My favorite early phone, a Sony Z100, had a charger that used pogo pins to charge the phone. My current phone has that capability but Verizon hasn't seen fit to provide US customers with a way to use the contacts.

Of course, it doesn't take much imagination to figure out why manufacturers and carriers have switched to these more fragile connections. They need to ensure that people are driven to replace their phones every couple years. I've managed to not break any of my USB-charged/connected phones yet but it's certainly more likely with mini/micro-USB plugs than it was with the old style.

My last phone still worked but was getting picky about which USB cable I used by the time I replaced it after 27 months and that was with just one or two plug cycles per day. I only plugged it in at work and left it at my desk all day unless I went to lunch. My current phone gets more plug cycles, tho I try to minimize them by leaving the cord plugged in and moving it from one power source to another. I'd love to have a wireless power delivery method that can give it the full amp at 5 volts that the AC charger provides. Even if I had to use a pad, it would be better than the micro-USB plug. Heck, just having cradles that use pogo pins on the power contacts would be an improvement.

Who is more vulnerable to wireless charging

[tokul]

Who is more vulnerable to wireless charging emissions? Some mechanical devices or life forms already suffering from radiation caused diseases.

Re:Who is more vulnerable to wireless charging

[Anonymous Coward]

These wireless charges will not emit ionizing radiation. Please show theoretical explanation for chemical reactions initiated by something below infrared.

Re:Who is more vulnerable to wireless charging

[mmell]

You grew up in a home under high-tension power lines, didn't you? 8^)

Re:Who is more vulnerable to wireless charging

[geekoid]

Since ionizing radiation doesn't have any impact on people, and it does have an impact on electronics, the answer is electronics.

" life forms already suffering from radiation caused diseases."
I'm curious about the alleged life form, because it certainly isn't humans.

Re:Who is more vulnerable to wireless charging

[Joce640k]

Since ionizing radiation doesn't have any impact on people...

This word "ionizing". I don't think it means what you think it means...

Efficiency versus not breaking your phone.

[gmarsh]

Something to consider - I've replaced the MicroUSB connector in my cellphone *twice*. The phone would work for about a year, then it would go flaky - you'd have to wiggle the connector a few times for the phone to reliably charge, and sometimes I'd go check on it and it wouldn't be charging - and it would happen with different cables. Supposedly these things are rated for 10,000 cycles, but I haven't seen it. Maybe my phone does something it shouldn't, like spark the +5V pin when the connector is plugged in. *shrug*

Secondly, I've caught the cord of my phone multiple times and pulled it off the desk onto the floor - and my cats/dogs have probably done it more times than I have.

Though there's an efficiency loss in wireless charging versus conductive charging, I wonder if there's an efficiency gain that exists in less phones being repaired/replaced because of damage related to conductive charging.

(Note that this is not a well thought out, researched argument - just a dumb thought.)

Re:Efficiency versus not breaking your phone.

[rrohbeck]

Yup. The mechanical stress from plugging it in and pulling is quite a bit. Power plugs failed on three laptops/netbooks of mine and the connector on my current phone has started to move a lot more than it used to. I wonder how long the solder connection will last.

Re:Efficiency versus not breaking your phone.

[Rob the Bold]

Though there's an efficiency loss in wireless charging versus conductive charging, I wonder if there's an efficiency gain that exists in less phones being repaired/replaced because of damage related to conductive charging.

(Note that this is not a well thought out, researched argument - just a dumb thought.)

True, one prematurely replaced cell phone buys quite a few kilowatt-hours of electricity. And add to that that one prematurely replaced hip buys a lot of cellphones.

Re:Efficiency versus not breaking your phone.

[irwiss]

I wonder if the battery recharge cycles problem has been solved already in the Qi standard.

If walking near a charging pad is going to "expend" a recharge cycle, it's going to be annoying
trying to navigate between cubicles without walking into some charging field.

Re:Efficiency versus not breaking your phone.

[Chuckstar]

I've replaced the MicroUSB connector in my cellphone *twice*... Supposedly these things are rated for 10,000 cycles, but I haven't seen it... I've caught the cord of my phone multiple times and pulled it off the desk onto the floor - and my cats/dogs have probably done it more times than I have.

I think I see the problem

Re:Efficiency versus not breaking your phone.

[aaarrrgggh]

There are plenty of other solutions, like the MagSafe connector Apple uses on their laptops. Hadn't thought about it before, but MicroUSB isn't really a good type of connector for frequent insertion/removal cycles, at least when soldered directly to the board.

Re:Efficiency versus not breaking your phone.

[Solandri]

Secondly, I've caught the cord of my phone multiple times and pulled it off the desk onto the floor - and my cats/dogs have probably done it more times than I have.

Actually this is a different problem. If you or your pets are repeatedly tripping on and pulling the power cord from the phone, then moving to a wireless charger won't help -- you/your pets will simply trip on and pull the power cord from the wireless charger. (And if you say "But I'd never move my wireless charger so I could tuck the cable away," then stop being a cheapskate and buy an extra USB adapter and microUSB cable just for charging your phone and tuck that away. The whole reason the EU mandated all manufacturers standardize on microUSB for chargers was to reduce cost for consumers.)

The real solution is to stop putting all power outlets at shin-level. Put a few at desktop level when building the house, or start building desks with a spot to mount a power strip tucked underneath or along the side/back.

Re:Efficiency versus not breaking your phone.

[adolf]

I've replaced the MicroUSB connector in my cellphone *twice*. The phone would work for about a year, then it would go flaky - you'd have to wiggle the connector a few times for the phone to reliably charge, and sometimes I'd go check on it and it wouldn't be charging - and it would happen with different cables.

Did you try cleaning it? A little squirt of Deoxit every now and then works like magic on all manner of flaky connectors, switches, and similar.

Re:Efficiency versus not breaking your phone.

[Joce640k]

Hadn't thought about it before, but MicroUSB isn't really a good type of connector...

Really?

Time

[symes]

Time is, I think, the real issue for consumers. If you can put your phone on a table, or whatever, for 30mins and have it completely recharged this will do well. But I have a feeling that inefficiency will make it something for when you sleep, so you can wake up to fully recharged gadgets. I can't see wireless providing more juice than most gadgets use so having them in public places, coffee shops. etc., will not overcome the inevitable flat battery, just delay it for a bit.

Re:Time

[Kardos]

"Its inefficient" means that the fraction of consumed power that makes it to the device is small.

If a wired charger is 99% efficient, you can deliver 1W to the batteries with 1/0.99=1.01W off the grid
If your wireless charger is 75% efficient, you need to draw 1/0.75=1.33W

TLDR: You can have the same charging time as wired, but you need to consume more power from the grid

Re:Time

[oji-sama]

Time is, I think, the real issue for consumers. If you can put your phone on a table, or whatever, for 30mins and have it completely recharged this will do well. But I have a feeling that inefficiency will make it something for when you sleep, so you can wake up to fully recharged gadgets. I can't see wireless providing more juice than most gadgets use so having them in public places, coffee shops. etc., will not overcome the inevitable flat battery, just delay it for a bit.

The efficiency is around 70%, so it will certainly delay the flat battery. Especially if the phone were to do wireless syncing at the same time (so less syncing would be needed when it is on its own battery...)

Re:Time

[melstav]

I'm kinda okay with that. Normally, when I go to bed is when I plug my phone in.... If I remember to plug my phone in. I've got an extended battery installed so I don't absolutely HAVE to charge my phone every night. If they get things set so every device uses the same charging standard and you can have one mat charge all your devices simultaneously, that would be killer for convenience. Get the XXL-sized charging mat and put it on the floor next to the bed. Get undressed, drop your pants on the mat, and when you wake up the next day, your phone (and any other digital device in your pants) is fully charged.

homebrew / hacking

[vlm]

I find it odd no one has implemented a homebrew hack of Qi.

You'd think it would be a fairly stereotypical elektor / nuts n volts / QST QEX type of article, "run your ardweeeeeeeeno off a Qi charger!" type of article.

Or if you'd prefer hardware modules, a adafruit / dangerous prototypes here's a little 1 sq inch PCB that when waved over a Qi charger outputs regulated 5 volts on these terminals.

All that's out there is sealed consumer grade end user devices, which is kinda weird compared to, say, the bluetooth or GPS or wifi or ethernet or pretty much every other "system" ecosystem.

Doesn't even have to be "hack-ish" for end user devices. Personally, as a guy who occasionally butchers wood aka wanna be finish carpenter, I'd wanna buy a little charger module for some of my projects. Here, route a pocket of specified dimensions, epoxy module in place, run power cable to wall, module is polyurethane finish compatible (or lacquer or whatever). I'm sure that would be very challenging for a roofer or someone completely confounded at the installation of a standard lockset in a pre-drilled door, but I think your average "real" woodworker could figure it out easily enough.

Its like they're trying to choke off innovation to make it fail, so they can "prove" no one wants it.

Re:homebrew / hacking

[Steauengeglase]

http://www.electronics-sourcing.com/2012/07/16/wurth-electronics-qi-power-charging-coils-available-at-mouser-electronics/

Re:homebrew / hacking

[vlm]

Yeah I shouda guessed I buy stuff from Mouser all the time and they seem to sell everything, so...

So... $10 to $15 for the coil, and then you gotta do the interface. I looked at the TI datasheet for one of their charging chips, bq50110 or something, and the schematic is like 3 pages long and has a fair amount of analog opamp goodness. The TI chip is a QFN package, so you'd have to deal with all the whining from people who refuse to learn to solder SMD. I would wager the "usual suspects" could sell a hobbiest grade module/PCB sender or receiver for about $40.

I am fairly surprised that a consumer charger is like $40 at Amazon but just a bare TX coil at Mouser is $15. That is the not kind of markup you see in other electronics... If ardweeeeeno controllers were priced that way, and the average PIC microcontroller (OK admittedly not a ardweeeeeeno) is like $3 then an ardweeeeeno board would be like $7 instead of "about a nice dinner". Even bulk orders don't help, looking at the slope I don't think Mouser would quote much under $9 even in 1K orders (not listed, extrapolating). My guess is the cheap amazon device is not using high efficiency litz wire... litz is expensive, delicate, and a PITA to strip and solder each strand (been there done that)

Nightstands

[caffiend666]

My alarm clock is a touchpad with wireless charging. Who wants to fumble with fragile cables/docks in the dark? I'm looking forward to having a wireless charging phone again for the same reason, Docks and ports break easily and I do not want to deal with them when half awake. In my bedroom, I want easy access to devices in the dark. The rest of the time, I use wires. Kind of like asking why people want wireless internet or audio, there are places where wireless is worth the hastle.

Re:Nightstands

[Carewolf]

My alarm clock is a really bright mass of incandescent gas.

Personally I prefer a ball of thermonuclear plasma, unfortunately I don't live on a farm, and at what time the sun rises is completely irrelevant to when I need to get out of bed.

Re:Nightstands

[lightknight]

Indeed. As a tech, it's usually the noon-day sun that summons me from my slumber, or failing that, the still of the night.

Absolutely love it; never want to lose it.

[jrronimo]

I've been using a Palm pre+ and pre2 for the last few years. It has a wireless charging coil integrated into the phone's back cover and a desktop 'puck' called the Touchstone that uses induction to charge the phone. The phone gets a little warm while charging, but has never been a problem.

Aside from the cool factor is the "clean" factor: My night stand where I keep the Touchstone is all the cleaner in that there's just this little black disk on it. The cable is easy to hide since it just plugs into the puck and can be routed elsewhere. All I have to do is set my phone on it and blammo, charging. In the morning I pick it up and go -- I'm never worrying about constant plugging into a jack, wearing either it or the cable out over time. It's simple and elegant. I don't think I would be as happy if I had to return to a cabled charge system again.

I'm not a fan of PowerMat, since it uses covers. I much prefer the "integrated-into-the-phone-case" solution. As such, I'm excited for the new Lumia phones.

Re:Absolutely love it; never want to lose it.

[ZorinLynx]

Oh gods yes. I miss my Palm Pre's wireless charging. I used one from 2009 until sometime in 2010 when I upgraded to an iPhone because the Pre was becoming a bit of a dead end.

The wireless Touchstone charging is one thing that Palm Inc. (I refuse to give HP credit) got very, very right. Why can't the other manufacturers copy from them or license the tech? It was so wonderful and elegant to be able to just place the phone on the stand and have it charge. It worked very reliably and I never had a lick of trouble with it.

The best part about this tech is it takes almost no space. The coil is completely flat and barely adds to the thickness of the device! Apple/Samsung/HTC/Motorola/etc. could integrate one into their products effortlessly and ditch cables completely by combining it with Wi-Fi syncing of data.

Re:Absolutely love it; never want to lose it.

[jrronimo]

Oh man, wifi syncing of data is the missing peace on my pre2. I don't use it for too much data these days, but it'd be nice.

As much as I love the Touchstone, I'm all for Standards. So hearing about this new "Qi" charging standard makes me happy. I just hope that it gains a lot of acceptance.

Re:Absolutely love it; never want to lose it.

[jrronimo]

*hands himself the correct version of the word "piece"*

A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[Above]

Each time I read a wireless charging article I find people who seem incapable of believing how simply most consumers will use this technology. Consumers don't want wireless charging primarily for use at a coffee shop, or on the bus, or in a train. They aren't, for the most part, interested in the ability to top off at the airport. No, for all of those things consumers have always demanded enough battery life to make it through the day without needing to recharge. Preferably several days. Most phones deliver, at least for the right usage patterns.

Wireless charging is all about forgetting to charge at home, and the inconvenience of 25 different chargers. Sitting next to me are propretary chargers for proprietary devices. A digital SLR. A digital point and shoot. An old cell phone. A new cell phone. A camcorder. Some regular AA's for my Apple wireless keyboard. The number of wall warts and specialty cables is astounding and annoying. Even if all the tech wasn't a disaster, sometimes I'm just tired and forget to charge my phone overnight.

This is why wireless is such a sexy idea. Imagine a wireless charging pad where you store your cameras, and one on your bedside table. You just toss your phone or cameras on it at night, wake up and it is charged. No plugging in cables. No row of wall warts. No incompatible battery chargers. No running out of outlets along a segment of counter.

Wireless charging's killer app is at home. One charging "area" for multiple devices. Make it cheap enough I can afford one by my desk, in my kitchen, and at my night stand and my gizmos will never run out of juice again, and topping off at a coffee shop, airport, or other place will diminish in need.

Re:A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[vlm]

Also as far as I know Qi is worldwide, unlike almost every other charging standard. If this tech survives, you'll be able to walk into every hotel room in the world and drop your phone on the charger and it'll work.

Please don't tell me USB is worldwide. By "USB" do you mean micro, mini, full size, or that apple doc connector, and do you mean raw regulated 5V or apple wiring with the weird sense resistors to program peak current? AC line power is more "standard" than USB.

Re:A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[jittles]

True. I probably only fly 10-20k miles a year and I can tell you now that I pick my airports based on their power availability. DFW is the WORST about power, followed by O'Hare and Houston's IAH. A lot of places offer free WiFi too, so I try and hit those airports as well.

Re:A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[PhotoJim]

I fly only 25,000 miles a year, but I've never had to charge a phone at an airport. A little forward planning (i.e. charging your phone the night before you fly) solves the problem nicely.

If I scramble for an electrical outlet, it's for my netbook, not my tablet or phone. And even there, a lot of airlines have aircraft with charging points (Air Canada even has AC and USB charging outlets in economy class on its mainline aircraft).

Re:A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[SleazyRidr]

Bingo, I often forget to plug my phone in, but forgetting to put it on the table is a very rare occurance.

Re:A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[Joce640k]

Bingo, I often forget to plug my phone in, but forgetting to put it on the table is a very rare occurance.

May I suggest putting some sort of power dock on your table...?

Re:A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[TeknoHog]

Wireless charging's killer app is at home. One charging "area" for multiple devices. Make it cheap enough I can afford one by my desk, in my kitchen

They could call it something like "induction stove".

Re:A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[SleazyRidr]

That is a good idea, I think I'll do that...

Re:A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[IndustrialComplex]

No, it doesn't solve the problem.

Every single time I've done something like your method, I've often found myself 'fearing' or finding myself in need of a charge for some device or another. It's not exactly fun to worry that a device want to use on the other end may be down to 10% power by the time you land.

First, we can't assume that there is a right or wrong in the fact that people will want to use electronic devices, and that they will want them to be available. With that in mind, we have to assume that people may want to USE those devices, and that's where planning ahead by charging becomes insufficient.

I will typically charge up my phone the night before, but it is real easy to drain a smartphone over the course of a coast-to-coast trip in the US. 1 hour to the airport, 1.5 hours there, 4 hours first flight, 2 hour layover, 2.5 hour second flight.

If you actually USE your equipment during those periods, it is very easy to discharge a full battery even if you carefully manage what features are turned on. Let's say your flight is delayed, a couple extra hours get inserted in there, perhaps there is road construction on your way to an unfamiliar airport and you run some GPS app on your phone to route you through the unfamiliar city, even if you use a car charger, those things are powerhungry and can drop a phone's battery at an astounding rate. (a nasty surprise is finding out that the GPS app was still running in the background as you waited at the security line and your battery is now at 20%)

I'm sorry, but no. Pre-charging a device doesn't even come close to providing a solution to the problem. Even IF I'm sure that I'll have enough charge to last a flight, I still top off in the terminal if I get the chance.

When I lived up North, I didn't just keep my car's gastank full when bad weather was approaching. I kept a spare 5 gallons with me just in case. I also made sure to keep it topped off if it ever dropped to 75%. Sure, 6 hours of run-time for my engine should be fine, but it was a hell of a lot nicer knowing that should I get stranded, I'd be able to run it for an entire night.

But when it comes to portable electronics, it's never a sure thing as to how long it is going to last. I prefer to have the option to keep it topped off while travelling.

Re:A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[marcosdumay]

I dunno. There was no standard power outlet in Brazil, and once in a while you brought a device that would simply not work on your outlets. In that sense, Brazil didn't "change the power outlets", it did "standardize the power outlets"... But, of course, it standardized into something that nobody used.

Changing a standard is harder, but yeah, some country will come out with a different one.

Re:A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[PhotoJim]

The solution, then, is probably to fly using airlines that have power outlets for your gear. Demand it, and we'll get it. As I said, some airlines already provide it.

In any event, the likely more rapid charging that we'd get at an airport using a proper power cord is useful enough. We just need AC outlets. Luckily, more and more airports are providing them.

Re:A coffee shop is not the killer app.

[bhiestand]

They aren't, for the most part, interested in the ability to top off at the airport.

I fly ~140,000 miles per year. In every single airport there are hordes of people hunting for outlets to charge their gadgets. I'm not saying the solution is going wireless, I am saying that a claim that folks aren't searching out power at airports is uninformed.

Agreed entirely. I would like to note, though, that travel power strips and surge protectors are extremely affordable and quite portable. I've kept one in my laptop bag or briefcase for years. Nobody has ever denied me access to a power outlet, and it usually leads to a few other people thanking me. Also extremely useful in universities, libraries, coffee shops, etc.

Hipsta puh-leez!

[mark_reh]

We've been going nutz and switching to crappy fluorescent lamps for years because they are more efficient, phone makers have been adopting charging standards that allow a phone charger to be used with any brand of phone, and they've been redesigning those for minimal "vampire" (1W) power use. Now, all of a sudden, we should give up on efficiency?

10 years ago I used to drop my Palm Pilot into a charging/sync cradle. It was efficient and worked reliably. Wireless charging is not an improvement.

Re:Hipsta puh-leez!

[jittles]

Says the man who has never had the convenience of an inductively charged device. I thought the same way as you until I got an HP Touchpad and an inductive charger. It is amazing. I never worried about electricity with that thing, or breaking the micro USB port (which I have done on at least 4 phones, from drops). There is no tripping, no anything. Its nice.You only need a cable if you want to sync via USB instead of WiFi

Re:Hipsta puh-leez!

[mark_reh]

So how is wireless inductive charging better than dropping the device into a more efficient cradle? In either case, you have to put the device down in a specific location, onto a device with a wire attached to it.

Broken USB connectors is an entirely different issue. USB (and those horrible multipin things apple uses) sucks. Whoever designed the USB connector, and the mini and micro versions, should all be stood against a wall and shot.

Re:Hipsta puh-leez!

[jittles]

As others mentioned above, you can potentially charge multiple devices on the same charging pad. For instance, I know there is an aftermark device for iOS devices that would charge as many iDevices as you can fit on the pad. For airports this is especially nice as wall sockets are usually hard to come by. But even in the home I'd much rather put my tablet, camera, and phone on a single pad than to plug them all in separately, even if they had cradles.

Re:The future

[vlm]

And then conspiracy theorists will of course complain about "the waves" that are "invading their bodies" and how it's going to make them sterile so all humans will die and the secret lizard people illuminati will rule the earth.

Solution: package combined Qi charger / wifi base station. Everyone knows wifi already does all that stuff, so Qi won't get any of the blame. Everybody wins!

Interference with RFID

[labnet]

The QI chargers frequency shift between 110khz and 205khz depending on power demand. This stomps over the common RFID frequencies of 125khz and 134.2khz which also use near field coupling to communicate with tags commonly used in animal and asset identification.
These systems already have a hard time dealing with ambient noise from motors, power lines etc. .Having deliberate frequency changing leaky coupled chargers is going to cause massive interference headaches for hundreds of thousands of existing LF RFID operators.

Why couldn't they have limited the carrier from 150 to 250khz instead???

Re:Interference with RFID

[vlm]

Lowest aviation NDB I'm aware is is around 190 KHz so you're already pissing off the aviators with the current 110-205 standard. push it lower like 80 to 100 please, not into the aviation bands. "Malfunctioning Qi charger kills hundreds in jetliner crash!" etc.

Re:Interference with RFID

[slimjim8094]

How many airliners use NDBs as opposed to VORs or simply GPS waypoints nowadays?

Re:Interference with RFID

[yabos]

Luckily NDB is being phased out. The airport I live near has ILS at one end of 33/15, NDB at the other, and VOR for the 09/27 runway. NDB is not very accurate compared to the more modern VOR and ILS. There are some NDB only runways in the world but they are usually remote so perhaps the interference issue isn't a big deal.

Re:Not at all.

[Cinder6]

A wireless charging pad is largely useless. I had one for the Touchpad. It was neat, but ultimately not worth the cost (though I did get it on a steep discount).

On the other hand, I would absolutely love a wireless charging table or countertop. In my SF dream world, my house would charge all my devices while I was inside, regardless of where I put them. Of course, my SF dream world has flying cars and teleporters.

The largest market for this...

[Obfuscant]

will be the lost cellphone recovery services.

Imagine how many people will walk away from their cellphones after they've put them on the table at the coffee shop. The old adage "keep it in your pants" will take on a whole new life.

Re:Stop this silliness!

[mmell]

20mW x (conservatively) 50,000,000 devices nationwide (what, you thought this was just about cell phones? Don't forget LameBoys, PeeS2's and the NoMindO DS) ~= 100,000W.

More than cool.

[Orsmo]

I'm sure there's definitely a whiz-bang factor at work here, but I think there's more to it than that.

Power is the last reason you need to connect a cable to most wireless devices now. Have low bandwidth data needs communicated at short distances (both a limitation and a feature)? There's NFC. Have one or two-way audio, or higher speed data transmission with the range of a room or two? There's Bluetooth. Need to communicate at greater range with much higher bandwidth? There's Wifi. Need to charge your device? There's Qi.

Why do I need a USB port anymore? My phone syncs over my WiFi network. It talks to my car audio system via Bluetooth. It talks to my car speaker phone or my headset via Bluetooth too. It just might, someday very soon, pay for my purchase via NFC as I swipe it at the checkout lane. Someday soon, you may even pair your device with Bluetooth accessories or join it to a WiFi network by passing it over a NFC pad. So I have to find the right cable and power adapter to charge it? Why should I have to do that when there's Qi?

Given that Qi can be combined with NFC, its possible that there is some hardware design synergy that makes the cost of implementing both together more palatable than implementing either alone. Honestly, if Apple were a member of the Wireless Power Consortium, I'd expect the new iPhone to have both NFC and Qi. Even without that membership, it just might anyway.

Re:More than cool.

[fa2k]

Why do I need a USB port anymore?

My USB port was recently broken, so it will charge, but it won't connect as a mass storage device. I still haven't found an application that allows me to transfer to/from my phone as easily as with USB. I use "LazyDroid", but it's quite insecure to do it over plaintext HTTP, and it isn't possible to download multiple files (e.g. pictures) in one go. USB is also significantly faster than WiFi. Perhaps it has improved over 1-2 generations, but my current Nexus S has incredibly slow WiFi, about 300 kB/s. This is with a very strong signal. And if I'm travelling, I don't want to connect to a wireless network (if there's one around) just to sync some things off my phone. If I had a removable SD card, now that would be something else, I wouldn't mind losing USB at all.

Re:More than cool.

[profplump]

Dropbox, or any other file sync utility, will happily transfer things between your phone and other computers anytime you're connected to the Internet. Which presumably on a smartphone is essentially constantly. Why you'd ever hassle with manual transfers confuses me.

Re:Stop this silliness!

[irwiss]

20mW x (conservatively) 50,000,000 devices nationwide (what, you thought this was just about cell phones? Don't forget LameBoys, PeeS2's and the NoMindO DS) ~= [insignificant figure in the grand scheme of things]

Re:Stop this silliness!

[bkaul01]

So, about as much electricity as a few houses, distributed nationwide. Yep, that's in the noise.

How do you convince people it's safe?

[HockeyPuck]

I've got lots of friends that won't hold a cell phone to their heads to use it, but will only use their cell phone with a lanyard/earbud, due to concerns about phone radiation.

Now we're supposed to convince them that it's ok to put a device on a charging pad?

Re:How do you convince people it's safe?

[Belial6]

Do they also pull their bed away from the wall because of the power lines running inside them?

"Widely accepted Qi standard" - not

[Animats]

This article is a pitch for the Qi standard. The "widely accepted Qi standard" is still one of several competing technologies. Neither Apple nor Google is a member of the Wireless Power Consortium. There are 91 Qi compatible products, but most of them are chargers or add-on power receivers. Other than NTT DoCoMo, almost no manufacturer makes phones tablets with the Qi technology. Nobody seems to make a tablet or laptop with it built in.

One thing they got right is that there's minimal communication between power receiver and transmitter. There's just enough one-way communication for the power receiver to send "I want power" or "I don't want power". This shuts down the transmitter when the battery is fully charged. There is no data path from power transmitter to receiver, which avoids the use of this as an attack vector. That's been a problem with public USB charging ports. Another thing NTT/Panasonic got right is that their Eluga Eluga V P-06D phone, which has Qi charging, is waterproof.

Outside of the NTT/Panasonic world, though, there are few devices with integral Qi charging. Panasonic has been getting charging pads into a few coffee shops in Japan, but widespread adoption by the big chains hasn't happened.

Re:"Widely accepted Qi standard" - not

[shutdown -p now]

"Widely accepted" is certainly a big stretch, but the reason why people have started talking about it now is because of new Lumias. Even if they don't get all that popular, it only takes one smartphone that people know about and that advertises the feature for others to start considering it, if only for the sake of feature parity.

Re:"Widely accepted Qi standard" - not

[Obfuscant]

There's just enough one-way communication for the power receiver to send "I want power" or "I don't want power". This shuts down the transmitter when the battery is fully charged.

So, are you saying that when someone puts their low-charge phone on one of these tables and it says "feed me", when someone picks that phone up and walks away the table keeps sending power out to thin air? Or does the "feed me" signal have to be there repeatedly for the transmitter to stay on?

I have to wonder about health issues

[Grayhand]

20 years ago there was a lot of talk about EM radiation and health effects. There's no myth about health effects it's just safe limits for exposure haven't been established. Yes it's easy to tell when upper limits cause damage but the constant exposure we already get does have some risk. The problem is these types of charging systems increase the exposure many times over current levels. I was concerned with proposals for embedded road chargers. Ironically magnalevel trains don't have this issue because they use a magnetic field to protect passengers but your average car or house has no such system. Prototype high power cell phones have been found to cause brain tumors much as radar guns used by law enforcement causes cancer with prolonged CU exposure. I'd feel better if some one stuck a rat cage on one to see if the rats died of old age or developed tumors over time. It's not being paranoid I'd just like to actually know for sure rather than hope for the best.

Re:I have to wonder about health issues

[Hatta]

There's no myth about health effects it's just safe limits for exposure haven't been established

Incorrect. There is no evidence that non-ionizing EM radiation poses any health risks.

Re:I have to wonder about health issues

[Aranykai]

Well, if you were really that concerned, you wouldn't have the cell phone that it was charging in the first place. The levels of energy involved here are just too low to be of concern.

Re:I have to wonder about health issues

[marcosdumay]

They are highter than the power emmited by the phone, otherwise you'd need to charge it for longer than you could use. Also, they are at a neat hight frequency, where they can heat things and interfere with chemical reactions (but not ionize).

If you stay a few meters away from it, certainly, there is nothing to be concerned over, but I'm also curious about the consequences of it (and wouldn't put one near my bed).

Re:Not at all.

[hawguy]

Waste of power if you transmit it over any distance, and otherwise you still have to put it on a pad that's connected to a wire.
So yeah, not all that useful for most applications.

But what about the stated application of charging your phone? How is it not useful for a phone? I keep my phone on the dresser at night, I'd rather drop it on a mat then have to plug it in in the dark when I go to bed. Where do you keep your phone at night if you don't put it on a table somewhere?

Likewise, I wish I could drop my phone in the center console of my car and have it charge automatically rather than plug it in to a charger every time I get into the car.

Re:Stop this silliness!

[hawguy]

20mW x (conservatively) 50,000,000 devices nationwide (what, you thought this was just about cell phones? Don't forget LameBoys, PeeS2's and the NoMindO DS) ~= 100,000W.

100KW? For the nation? That's nothing. I'll even say literally nothing - that would be in the unmeasurable noise of country-wide power generation.

If a 100 people make morning toast at the same time they'll be using more power than that.

It's SUPER advantageous

[Medievalist]

...for the power companies, that is.

For end users who aren't physically handicapped, well, not so much.

What's the Efficiency?

[wings]

My concern would be the charging efficiency compared to a wired charger.
Now, I don't know about the efficiency of this kind of wireless charger or of wired chargers for that matter, but I'd expect a consumer grade wireless charger to be less efficient than a wired one. If we're going to put a few hundred million of these things in service I'd like to know what the energy penalty will be.

Re:What's the Efficiency?

[bhiestand]

My concern would be the charging efficiency compared to a wired charger.

Now, I don't know about the efficiency of this kind of wireless charger or of wired chargers for that matter, but I'd expect a consumer grade wireless charger to be less efficient than a wired one. If we're going to put a few hundred million of these things in service I'd like to know what the energy penalty will be.

One of the URLs a previous poster gave: up to 75% efficient.

But this will save energy on other uses. Most people leave their chargers and wall warts plugged into outlets all the time. If they're using one Qi for multiple devices, it could replace several vampire drain devices. Many of these use 1-2 watts 24x7. My iPad charger actually uses 0.0, but my AA battery charger uses 0.5 on standby and 1.3 while charging one AA.

My iPhone charger draws anywhere from 3-4 watts when charging. Qi would increase that to ~6 watts for, say, an hour. So let's round everything up and say it'll cost me an extra 4 watt hours per day. I won't plug/unplug the battery charger all the time, but I will put it on the charging mat only when I need to use it... and I use it less than 25% of the time. So if the battery charger can go down to 0 vampire drain 16 hours a day I save 8 watts and lose... 8 watts? to inefficiency. Assuming my charger is 100% efficient and lots of other things.

If these mats have low standby power drain and are used for low voltage/amp devices, replacing numerous wall warts and chargers could offset many/most/all of the efficiency losses. Obviously lots of assumptions here, but worth a thought. Plus the problem of devices being broken due to tripping, broken connectors, and similar problems.

Re:Not at all.

[Score Whore]

Odd. My SF dream world has Jessica Beil in garters, stockings and high heels and Scarlett Johansen in cuffs and a ball gag.

Palm Pre / HP TouchPad Touchstone Charger...

[RealGene]

was, hands down, the best feature of the phone/tablet.
A cute little base that the phone clung to magnetically, and it would charge.
No fiddling with the fragile micro-USB cover, no getting the connector upside-down.
Never misplaced my phone, because I would just park it on the Touchstone at home or work (I bought two).

Well...

[Ryanrule]

...I am pretty lazy, so anything that works to help me there is great.

Really?

[Sporkinum]

I find this subject Quite Interesting.

Can't use the device while charging

[ebs16]

At the end of the day when my phone battery is in the red, I usually plug in and continue using the device. I can use the device for as long as its plugged in. With a wireless charger, there's no way to use the device while it's charging -- unless you tap gently and keep it on speaker. It'll work, but not as well as charging via USB.

Re:Can't use the device while charging

[geekoid]

"With a wireless charger, there's no way to use the device while it's charging "
not with the pads, but there are area wireless chargers, where anywhere in the area is using the charger, even if you are on the phone.

extrememly advantagous

[geekoid]

Never needing to plug in your cell phone? always charged when in your car, or restaurant or where ever.

are the advantages worth the extra cost? hard to say.

About $ 5

[fa2k]

It *is* more convenient. Assuming I didn't need USB for anything other than charging, I'd get a charging pad for $ 5 instead of a practically free USB cable. I'd need one at home, one at work and one for travelling, but for the latter it may be more convenient with plain USB. On a fixed "installation" I'd imagine it's one of those things that seem insignificant at first, but really do make a difference.

Re:Stop this silliness!

[geekoid]

not quite. You seem to be comparing 100W to all Watts generated. It should be 100KWh to totals KWs per hour.

Still insignificant.

I anxiously await standardization...

[evilviper]

What's with all the contrarians? Why do we need wireless charging? For the same reasons your phone has WiFi and not an RJ45 port...

As a heavy Android phone user, I'm anxiously awaiting some wireless charging standard. I have wall-warts all over my house, so that wherever I sit, I can plug-in... Because cell phones just can't handle even a half day of heavy use between recharges. And even if one could, I wouldn't want to cut it that close.

So now, my cell is perpetually tethered to a microUSB cable, getting pulled off tables onto the floor, getting tugged when I try to move it and there's not enough slack, getting stress on the cable and socket when I want to set it on the armrest right where the plug is sticking out, and always fumbling with putting the connector in the right way, and pulling it out when I go, or it becomes a particular nusiance, maybe 10x a day.

What's more is the nusiance of travel... I've got a cigarette lighter to microUSB plug for driving, then I've got to carry a wall adapter for motel rooms, conference rooms, or whatnot, and then supplament that with a AA battery to microUSB adapter when I'm not within reach of a power outlet, but still need to use my phone heavily. Times like flying in particular.

All that stuff is much, much larger than my cell phone, and could be eliminated from my bag if restaurants, hotels, cars, passenger jets, and conference rooms had them built-in.

Now let's consider that I carry two or more devices around... One phone needs one charger, while the other phone won't charge from it at all. Wall chargers break USB specs in multiple, and mutually incompatible ways. That's why we have items like the Skiva QuadPower, which has one port that works on Apple devices, one port that works on Android devices, and two generic USB ports that are needed for Palm/Blackberry/BREW/Nokia/etc devices, that won't charge from the other ports.

And that's just getting started. Throw in tablets, or netbooks/ultrabooks, or even laptops. Tablets are almost always able to charge from USB, even if only very slowly, because we've built the modern world on the non-standard USB charging standard, and everyone wants to be able to get some charge out of it in the worst case. But the low voltage and power of USB leads to far more contortions than even smartphones have to contend with... And all because USB is such a poor charging standard. I'd sure love a universal charger, but even low power netbooks/ultrabooks don't even try to use USB, because the voltage is far too low, and they'd have to go nuts to add more special-cases to USB wall chargers.

We clearly need something better... Something that can supply more than 5v, and a whole lot of amps.

Who wouldn't want to have a flat pad they can put on their coffee table, that automatically starts charging any device you set on it? Laptop, cell phone, tablet, maybe laptop batteries not currently connected, etc. Throw in TV remote controls, flashlights, cordless keyboards/mice, console game controllers, etc., for good measure. It would be an incredible improvement over the current disjointed charging situation. And don't start complaining about efficiency... Even if it's got high losses, being able to top-off everywhere you go is much more efficient than having your battery get drained.

extension cord

[hazem]

Would it really offer more charging opportunities for mobile users in coffee shops who are today hamstrung by how many outlets are available?

I just carry around a short $5.00 extension cord with the slots for plugs. That way, even if someone has plugged into every last available outlet, I can just ask them to swap in my extension cord so we can both get power. Nobody's said "no" yet. And it's probably more efficient than wireless recharging.

Interesting use of "and"

[caywen]

Would it really offer more charging opportunities for mobile users in coffee shops who are today hamstrung by how many outlets are available? And then there's the added cost and reduced efficiency.

The first part is a genuine question - it hasn't identified an actual problem. It could very well be that it would offer more charging opportunities. The second part is definitely a problem. I don't see why the OP joins with an "And" here. It makes the first part sound like an actual problem, when it is anything but. This should read:

It might offer more charging opportunities for mobile users in coffee shops who are today hamstrung by how many outlets are available. But then there's the added cost and reduced efficiency.

Much clearer.

Lame post...

[stevenfuzz]

I want to put my phone down and have it charge without plugging it in. Advantageous, very. Answered.

Re:Not at all.

[Joce640k]

Odd. My SF dream world has Jessica Beil in garters, stockings and high heels and Scarlett Johansen in cuffs and a ball gag.

Remember: There's a parallel universe out there where you're doing all of that right now...

Re:Testicles?

[Guignol]

You should make sure not to let your testicles on the charging pad when you go to bed
If you accidentaly do so, make sure they don't send the charging pad the signal 'feed me'

hackability, A/V out

[Chirs]

"Why do I need a USB port anymore?"

So you can re-flash your phone with a new OS, do low-level debugging, do A/V out over MHL, etc.

Re:hackability, A/V out

[Orsmo]

Software updates (including the device OS) are pretty commonly done via network connections these days, be they wifi or some other other network (LTE perhaps). Now, I'm not saying that your hackability argument has no truth to it, since over the air updates are often tightly controlled as to the source of the update, so installing a non-approved update might be trickier. In principle however, this depends far more on the specifics of the controls the device has put into place to stop unauthorized firmware installation than it does with the means of connectivity employed to make it happen. Keep the port if you have to, but I haven't connected my iPhone to a computer via USB for data transfer of any kind in something like a year now.

It could also readily be argued that re-flashing with non-standard firmware and low-level debugging aren't consumer features and thus don't represent a substantial use case to drive the inclusion of the port for the sake of the percentage of users that would actually use it. I could see a JTAG connection for repair and debug for instance, but why a full USB port?

MHL has seen relatively light adoption. There are other ways to handle A/V out than a physical connection though. AirPlay comes to mind. The bandwidth required to send compressed audio and video at with multiple digital audio channels, high definition resolutions and high frame rates is well within the capabilities of WiFi. I stream 1080p video to my Roku from my Plex server all the time over WiFi.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you can argue that a physical connection is somehow better than a wireless one on the grounds of it being faster, more secure, requiring less power, or whatever you like. The real question though is is the experience of plugging in a physical cable and getting those things more compelling to the consumer than the experience of getting "good enough" capabilities without the need for a cable? Once you pass the "good enough" barrier, the cable vs wireless argument is pretty much a done deal for most people.

Looking forward to wireless charging

[Gyorg_Lavode]

I'm actually looking forward to wireless charging. The reason is that one of the primary reasons a piece of portable electronics becomes useless to me is the charging connector gets worn out. It a simpl fact that plugging it in and out multiple times a day and stressing it in odd directions is going to cause it to simply not work over time.

I'd love a situation where I just sat my devices on a pad for them to charge and even to sync data at faster-than-wireless speeds. That way I only had to plug them in in limited situations, (such as travel).

Also, it would be nice from a device standpoint. Right now I have an octopus of micro-usb chargers on my chest of drawers. I have half a dozen devices that need charging through the week. I'd love to just leave the ones I don't use on the mat and have them charged and ready to go when I took them.