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Advertisers Never Intended To Honor DNT

First time accepted submitter oldlurker writes "After much discussion where many hoped a voluntary Do Not Track standard was agreed with advertisers, it turns out the advertisers already had a very different interpretation than most of us on how to practice it: 'Two big associations, the Interactive Advertising Bureau and the Digital Advertising Alliance, represent 90% of advertisers. Downey says those big groups have devised their own interpretation of Do Not Track. When the servers controlled by those big companies encounter a DNT=1 header, says Downey, "They have said they will stop serving targeted ads but will still collect and store and monetize data."'"

12 of 308 comments (clear)

  1. Missing the Point? by kraln · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Isn't that missing the entire point? Or is the do-not-track specification one of those Orwellian-titled things whereby the net effect is exactly the opposite of the name?

    1. Re:Missing the Point? by fast+turtle · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And the first thing that the Mozilla Devs need to do is delete the Unique ID for Safe Browsing from the firefox code base as it's a cookie that can't be deleted. For those using Firefox and it's derivitives, change the Safe Browsing ID to "0" and help Poisson Googles Data. What really bothers me about this issue is that even when "In Private" browsing is enabled, this unique ID is being passed to Google, in direct violation of my intentions when entering "In Private" mode. This is just one more reason I rarely use Firefox. Opera has a similar feature and I suspect it does the same. Sorry but Safe Browsing needs to be completely anonymous instead of tracking us like it does now.

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      Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
    2. Re:Missing the Point? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2, Interesting

      you missed my biggie: deinstall flash.

      if I need a YT video, I run 'youtube-dl'. not only do I get selectivity in what flash gets run on my system but I get to keep a copy of the video in case I want it, later. and of course, I get no 'buffering' bullshit.

      I have not found a single reason to have flash installed in a browser. but I admit I'm very willing to go without the latest 'linked video' from this or that idiot. if the video is not something I can get spam-free, I do without.

      not having flash installed was one of the smartest things I've done in a long time. I'm glad that info got to me very early on.

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      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:Missing the Point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Mozilla ... Unique ID for Safe Browsing

      Could somebody give me a link to info about this? Google isn't turning up very much about this.

      I'd like to know what my Firefox unique ID is, and how to control it.

  2. That's OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have my browsers not respect their wishes on page composition and ad presentation, so I don't really expect them to respect my do-not-track header either. Their domains would first have to make it past my DNS blackhole anyway.

  3. Re:This is where someone will say... by JayRott · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Of course, by doing this you get folks screaming "You are STEALING content! How do the content creators get paid?!?" I have no problem with websites making a buck, and I would even go back to viewing ads as long as they are not obnoxious or folowing me around the entire net. If they can't respect me enough to honor my choices I can't respect them enough to loan them my eyeballs. The internet was a huge push forward for information sharing, but I simply can't get behind every internet user having a dossier encompassing every site they visit or every purchase they make used for god-knows-what by god-knows-who!

  4. Re:This is where someone will say... by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I would even go back to viewing ads as long as they are not obnoxious

    As far as I am concerned, the only advertisements that are not obnoxious are the ones that I specifically ask for. When do I specifically ask for advertising? When I search for products on Amazon, when I go to Craigslist, when I use Google Shopping to compare prices, etc. It is no surprise that those things are so overwhelmingly successful (both in terms of money and in terms of utilization): there is no incentive for anyone to block them, because they are giving people something useful and something people want.

    The reason advertisers have such a bizarre interpretation of do-not-track is that they know they cannot make any money by respecting people. That's why I use ABP and NoScript: advertisers do not respect me, so I will not let them consume my screen space, CPU cycles or bandwidth.

    As for the poor websites that claim they will go under without advertisers...well, maybe they should stand up for their users and say, "No, obnoxious, disrespectful advertising is not allowed on this website." What happened to just showing me a picture that says, "This product is better than the rest!" and leaving it at that?

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  5. The explanation of DNT by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I think DNT is absurd too, but that is because I long ago accepted that advertisers are untrustworthy and not worthy of any respect. However, here is the theory of DNT:
    1. Website operators are increasingly concerned about ABP, because they rely on advertising revenue to pay the bills
    2. Browser vendors have added pop-up blocking support by default; ad blockers may be added by default as well if advertisers do not start respecting users
    3. Advertisers claimed that if people asked not to be tracked, they won't be tracked; users find that asking every advertiser everywhere not to track them is exceedingly difficult.
    4. Advertisers who fail to follow a DNT request would be black sheep, and a country could theoretically pass a law requiring DNT compliance (but how would people know if DNT was being ignored?)

    In other words, DNT is predicated on the idea that advertisers will actually respect user wishes, because otherwise users will respond by blocking ads. The point of this article is that advertisers have shown that they do not respect user wishes; the logical conclusion should be that browsers start including things like ABP by default, until advertisers start respecting DNT again (but that won't happen, so we'll just make ad blocking a standard browser feature). Browser makers must include ad blocking or else DNT will truly be pointless; users, by and large, will not install ad blocking extensions on their own.

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    Palm trees and 8
  6. Re:More elaborate schemes? by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think it would be more harmful to those people junking up the web if we made a browser extension that clicked on every +1, like, and follow button you surf past.

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    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  7. If ignoring DNT is ok... by cbreak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...then I guess NoScript and AddBlock are fair game. Excellent. Advertisers should not forget that they depend on our attention, and we're not obligated to give it to them.

  8. Re:No ads browsing is a fallacy by sjames · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, a fair number of people tried to offer an olive branch in the form of allowing advertising but not tracking people like animals. The advertisers grabbed that olive branch and poked them in the eye with it, so here we are.

    The next move will be either total blocking of ads or websites finding some way to enforce no tracking on the advertisers they work with.

    The very few advertisers that actually have a modicum of respect for the people they advertise to would be wise to petition the FTC to regulate advertising firmly before people just totally shut them out.

  9. Re:More elaborate schemes? by Decker-Mage · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And that's the point that should be hammered at them, that if a voluntary scheme isn't followed, we resort to tools that allow us to pollute their data. I already have the code to 'weaponize' this, should I go that route, and it wouldn't exactly take a whole lot of people (percentage-wise) to pollute the databases. Question is: when/if we organize?

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    "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go