Recording of Recently Shut-Down Telemarketers In Action

An anonymous reader writes "Just yesterday, the FTC, in conjunction with other government agencies, shut down an international telemarketing scam. A recent video has surfaced showing them in action, trying to scam one of the principals of a Canadian web start-up. Watch the scammers lie through their teeth to convince their 'victim' that he needs to buy a lifetime subscription to their anti-virus product."

Comments

All telemarketers are scammers

[Anonymous Coward]

There are no exceptions.

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[Anonymous Coward]

Except those great guys from "card member" services who want to re-finiance my non-existant credit cards, they are so leguit they call me on my cell phone even though I am on a do not call list, that is how totally valid and legitimate they are.

So I always give them a credit card number off a VISA prepaid card i paid for with cash.

They are so not totally scammers....

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[Sarten-X]

Except for the ones who actually do the job right, of course (which requires managers who allow it).

Telemarketers as a group get a lot of shit for doing a pretty benign job. At my last IT admin job, I got a few telemarketing calls a month, mostly from vendors we already work with telling me about their new products. Pretty benign, and sometimes actually useful.

The bad ones are just the ones who cold-call people they have no relationship with already, press sales, and lie.

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[sycodon]

Besides, who buys anti-virus software anymore?

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[gl4ss]

usually telemarketing refers to cold calling.

What I mean, is that usually if it's an ongoing business relationship - like you had with your vendors - then it's no longer telemarketing - emphasized by the fact that even if you were on a some national do not call list(in any western nation) they can call you because they have an already established business relationship with you.

in that context all telemarketers are scammers.

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[mr1911]

So I shouldn't have told them my social security number, bank card number & pin, and mother's maiden name?

Oh well, at least they didn't get the combination to my luggage. 1234 will be safe forever!

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[bobcat7677]

My parents.

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[sycodon]

The lifetime subscription?

I guess my Mom would have too if I hadn't stopped her.

My ex did. I didn't stop her. :-)

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[monkeyhybrid]

If a telemarketer calls to try and sell me a service or product that I don't already have, then in it is generally a safe bet that I don't want or need it. If it happens to be for something that I would quite like, I am sure I can find a better price by myself rather than accept what a salesman is offering me over a phone line. I will never pay for something from a telemarketer and I detest the whole idea of sales people phoning strangers in an attempt to talk them into buying a product.

I'm not saying all telemarketers are bad, just that telemarketing as a whole is bad!

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[Sarten-X]

Well, since we're redefining telemarketing, why not cut the definition down to those who are "selling" only items that don't exist, or touting services that they know the target has no need for? While we're at it, let's restrict "developers" to be only people who write programs using C#, "gamers" to be only those who first played Pac-Man at exactly age 19, and "unemployed" to mean only those who have received no income from anywhere in the past 23 years. Suddenly all our discussions are much simpler.

That's the point of my post. Telemarketing as a field has been stereotyped until the word implies only cold-calling scammers, despite the fact that they make up only a tiny minority of the field.

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[gl4ss]

well,

we we're referring to even legit magazine salesmen as scammers and people selling legit socks for price of "shipping & handling". because it's all the same bullshit - if their product depends on the on the call pressure factor in order to make a sale it's bullshit and that's what a lot of telemarketing depends on. if it's a business relationship call then it's not telemarketing, if it's soliciting you to buy some bullshit it's telemarketing, like adverts on tv are marketing. this is not redefining the word unless you use the definition that any business related call with the end aim of making more business is telemarketing, in which case ceo's are telemarketers.

"Telemarketing (sometimes known as inside sales,[1] or telesales in the UK and Ireland) is a method of direct marketing in which a salesperson solicits prospective customers to buy products or services, either over the phone or through a subsequent face to face or Web conferencing appointment scheduled during the call. Telemarketing can also include recorded sales pitches programmed to be played over the phone via automatic dialing. Telemarketing has come under fire in recent years, being viewed as an annoyance by many."

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[Charliemopps]

Let me fix that for you: All SALESMEN and MARKETING reps are scammers. There are no exceptions. Telemarketers are just slightly more annoying.

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[Anonymous Coward]

The telemarketing calls I get at work have typically been vastly different from residential ones, at least in the last 20 years (there did seem a time where the residential ones were trying to sell an actual, possibly decent product, just at maybe not the best price). And it can vary depending on what work you do, even with laboratory work in my case, I've seen a lot of variety at different jobs.

I've had plenty of calls from equipment venders, mostly follow up calls to quote requests, although some cold calls, where they did offer information I had not seen yet on yet to release products. Some of these were at least helpful, in that they would ask if we had any questions about previously purchased products, had any problems, or even asking if we wanted to give input on designing their next product. At least they would quickly go away if I said not interested or was busy, and would not just call back the next day (they would call back a 1-3 months later though). And frequently they would offer to send us loaner equipment for free to try out, or to send out someone to educate new employees or demo the products. Other times they would just be offering free white papers or booklets to teach about a subject (and they would actually be pretty brand neutral and informative for the most part). That last bit trailed off in the last 5 years or so in favor of distributing such things via the internet, although a few still have hard print stuff for those that want it. And even one company, that we only bought a relatively small amount of stuff from once every couple years would send us donuts quarterly. Just watch out for Tektronics... they are very polite, friendly, and helpful, but can be borderline stalking at times...

At one point though, I had a job that had a few keywords overlapping with medical research, in which case I got a lot of annoying cold calls, some of which sounded bad even for infomercial quality marketing. I imagine due to the amount of money involved in medical research there are some companies with more sense in marketing, and what I saw was biased toward those too stupid to figure out I didn't do medical research. Or worse, some of them didn't care. "Yeah, I don't do any work related to any of that equipment or application fields," would occasionally get responses like, "But the brochure is free anyways," or, "We don't care, just answer some questions for us first." Among other things, some of the less legit stuff called about made me wonder how much money I could make by sending some unsolicited BS trade magazine to academic offices and sending a bill to department secretaries to see if some fraction would just pay it...

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. ALL telemarketers are scamming scumbags. The only time someone should ever call me to try to sell me something is if I specifically asked them to.

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[Sarten-X]

if their product depends on the on the call pressure factor in order to make a sale it's bullshit and that's what a lot of telemarketing depends on.

So how is that different from any other form of marketing? If the salesman doesn't helpfully offer a test drive, you're probably not going to buy the car. If the new meal-in-a-box doesn't have flashy packaging that looks different from every other meal-in-a-box, how will you learn the product exists?

Every form of marketing relies on the strength of its medium to make a sale.

if it's a business relationship call then it's not telemarketing, if it's soliciting you to buy some bullshit it's telemarketing, like adverts on tv are marketing. this is not redefining the word unless you use the definition that any business related call with the end aim of making more business is telemarketing, in which case ceo's are telemarketers.

I'll use the definition I linked to:

The marketing of goods or services by means of telephone calls, typically unsolicited, to potential customers.

"Marketing of goods or services by means of telephones calls" means just that, and nothing more. Not "marketing calls that relies on pressure" or "marketing that I wasn't expecting". Yes, this means CEOs will be telemarketing on occasion, if they're in a position where it'd be appropriate for them to be doing marketing at all (such as to a potential VIP customer).

"Telemarketing (sometimes known as inside sales,[1] or telesales in the UK and Ireland) is a method of direct marketing in which a salesperson solicits prospective customers to buy products or services, either over the phone or through a subsequent face to face or Web conferencing appointment scheduled during the call. Telemarketing can also include recorded sales pitches programmed to be played over the phone via automatic dialing. Telemarketing has come under fire in recent years, being viewed as an annoyance by many."

I can't help but notice that there's no mention of telemarketing necessarily using pressure tactics, unsolicited calls, or scams in that definition. In fact it implies that the call could just set up a later meeting for other marketing strategies.

Re:All telemarketers are scammers

[Inda]

I had an out-of-the-blue phone call the other day. The guy knew my name and spoke clearly in a friendly manner.

I'd signed up to a website and he was phoning me to see if I'd found my way around properly. He was offering to stay on the line and talk me through the online videos, he was telling me Google search terms to help me out and offered to email me links to YouTube videos. Twenty minutes I chatted to him. It was all very pleasant.

I've never had a phone call like that. I've never had Google, Amazon, PayPal or Ebay phone me to ask if everything's OK. It was kind of shocking; here was a faceless company, that I may or may not continue to use after the initial transaction, phoning me up offering decent help.

Some of these call centre workers are nice people who do a good job and should be treated with respect.

The company was BetFair. I continue to use them.

Bad video

[ildon]

I realize it's difficult to record a phone call, but I literally can't understand anything the telemarketer is saying in the video due to the audio quality.

Re:Bad video

[Cinder6]

I got a couple calls from these guys. I couldn't understand them then, either.

Re:Bad video

[gstoddart]

I got a couple calls from these guys. I couldn't understand them then, either.

No kidding ... usually it's terrible line quality, terrible English skills, and some idiot saying he's "from the windows service provider and there's a problem with my computer".

A friend's father in law got taken by one of these last year -- he immediately re-imaged the PC, told his father in law to cancel his credit cards, and then proceeded to give him a stern lecture on such things.

I sat my parents down a couple of years ago and gave them a good lesson on being skeptical about such things. It's saved them a few times.

Re:Bad video

[PlusFiveTroll]

I have one touch recording with my pbx system, I'll have to remember to use it the next time one of these loosers calls. Most of the time they are on hacked VOIP, or out of country internet on VOIP so the quality is pretty crappy.

Re:Bad video

[rtfa-troll]

Put it on headphone and volume up a bit. It was fine. Certainly better than some support desk guys I have had in the past.

Re:Bad video

[Cinder6]

I was amused at the way they identified themselves to me: "Microsoft Malicious Software Department". Yeah, I'm posting on Slashdot, but even I was surprised that Microsoft is so transparent about selling malware...

Re:Bad video

[Nutria]

usually it's terrible line quality, terrible English skills, and some idiot saying he's "from the windows service provider and there's a problem with my computer".

Just as I was clicking on the link to read these comments, an Indian with bad English skills called me up saying that I am eligible to receive education grant money that I don't have to repay. But he mumbled so much that that's all I couple understand.

Re:Bad video

[Cro Magnon]

I've gotten two calls. The first time was at night and I was half asleep. The second time, I wasn't home, they left a message on my answering machine, and I couldn't understand them any better while awake.

Re:Bad video

[GoogleShill]

I got a call from a guy from The Alien Touch with the same scam, in fact it sounded exactly the guy in the video, so I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't the same dude. I was only able to keep him on the phone for about 4.5 minutes when I finally told him I run Linux. He asked me "Then why the f* are you wasting my time?!?!" To which I replied, "Because you're a f*ing scam artist scumbag!" Then he hung up. The sad thing is that they have a Facebook page with 56 followers (victims, probably).

Re:Bad video

[Enter the Shoggoth]

I got a call from a guy from The Alien Touch with the same scam, in fact it sounded exactly the guy in the video, so I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't the same dude. I was only able to keep him on the phone for about 4.5 minutes when I finally told him I run Linux. He asked me "Then why the f* are you wasting my time?!?!" To which I replied, "Because you're a f*ing scam artist scumbag!" Then he hung up.

The sad thing is that they have a Facebook page with 56 followers (victims, probably).

Telling them you run Linux is lame... we should all follow Tom Mabe's lead.

One question:

[Tastecicles]

Whose lifetime?

Re:One question:

[click2005]

The phone conversation's lifetime.

Re:A lifetime contract for AV software!

[wierd_w]

Oh no silly. You seem to think that this was a "pay once, and get service forever!" Type lifetime contract.

Coming from a scam farm, I would expect more "signee agrees to pay $24.95 per month in purpetuity in exchange for service."

Forwarding to my mom

[AttyBobDobalina]

I get forwarded so many *fake* scamming stories from my mom...now I get to create an e-mail from a real one. Thanks, Slashdot! My mom appreciates it.

Thank you for calling

[Megane]

Thank you for calling, my name is Peggy, how can I be fixing your computer today?

No Protection?

[sizzlinkitty]

I could only wish that one day, a scammer will contact me about the viruses on my linux workstation. Scammers like this need to be beheaded...

Re:No Protection?

[wierd_w]

Haven't you heard about the dangerous su, sh, and dd viruses!?

Why, I hear that if you get all three, they can nuke your whole box!

(LOL!)

Collateral Damage

[badford]

This will hurt all of the legitimate anti-virus telemarketers out there as well as a many a wayward Nigerian prince. Perhaps an elaboration is due. You see I am a representative of the late Nigerian Head of State, General Arbach Jamani who died on 12th August 2003, I have been tasked to distribute the excess revenue from precious metal mining that the lord, bathsheba, has blessed our coffers with...

Re:Collateral Damage

[91degrees]

You're clearly lying. I know because I've been in contact with the representative of the real Nigerian head of state, regarding the transfer of $20,000,000 (TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS) and he said you;re the scammer.

Re:Collateral Damage

[badford]

You're clearly lying. I know because I've been in contact with the representative of the real Nigerian head of state, regarding the transfer of $20,000,000 (TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS) and he said you;re the scammer.

Good sir. I can quite understand your frustration. You must be referring to my dear friend Colonel Akbar Hottentot, the new Nigerian Head of State put into power after the recent Three-Days-War. I can assure you that once I receive your initial tithe to cover day to day business expenses and travel, the $20,000,000,000,000,000,000 (Twenty BaZillion Dollars) will be summarily deposited into your account.

Re:Collateral Damage

[MysteriousPreacher]

Not as quickly as HP does.

Not much sympathy

[Anonymous Coward]

I realize it's not nice to blame the victim, but it's hard not to in this case. Anyone who cold calls you at home is going to either be conducting a survey or scamming you (or both).People have known this for ages, it should be common knowledge at this point that no one should ever believe anything an unknown party says to them over the phone. How is it that people still fall for this sort of thing. Even people who know nothing about computers should know enough about life to not assume everything a random strange on the phone tells them is true.

Bad audio quality, but...

[frostfreek]

Very interesting end to the video, where the scammer realizes that he's dealing with someone who knows something about computers, and starts to try to... what.... do some damage?

Re:Bad audio quality, but...

[Pseudonym Authority]

I thought it was especially funny how he went into `My Pictures'. Was he looking for some porn?

Re:Bad audio quality, but...

[Cinder6]

Whenever I have to work on someone's computer, they always start freaking out and asking if their pictures will be okay. They don't care about any important documents--just the pictures. So I suppose that, if you wanted to be real vindictive, and you know you only have a few seconds in which to act, you would take out their pictures. Of course, the smarter vindictive person would just open up the command prompt and nuke their system from there (though it lacks something of the personal touch).

(Of course, we're talking about a guy who didn't notice all he was deleting was the worthless default pictures that ship with Windows, so how smart could he be?)

Ars Technica got a call today

[Relayman]

Ars Technica got a call from the scammers today.

Better Link

[Bill Dimm]

Slashdot linked to the blog's homepage instead of the specific blog entry with the video, so the link isn't going to give the right result if they post anything else to the blog.

Watching scumbags lie?

[Hatta]

No thanks, I got enough of that last night.

My favorite...

[Java Pimp]

inf infected files on hard disk

Oh noes!

Re:My favorite...

[Mashiki]

I dunno man, I think all my text file are infect with something. They just keep showing me links for porn...

Bwahaha

[kiriath]

Brilliant.

I pride myself in taking some of my precious time to mess with scammers that call. My co-workers get a kick out of it when I get one, I just go wherever my mind leads me and usually get hung up on.

I love the typo in the pasted fake error message from the command prompt.

Hey, at least they have jobs... (or had)

Re:Bwahaha

[LizardKing]

At my current company we have a huge number of cold callers, mostly of the automated variety. There's always a pause as the auto-dialer software waits for a human voice rather than a fax, which is when you should randomly press buttons on your touchtone phone. This either fools the software into thinking it's called a fax line, and removing you from its call list, or transfers you to a human. In the latter case, it's now fun time. My two favourite games (shamelessly nicked from someone else) are:

1. Answer every question or prompt with one word, usually "yes", but extra points for something else

2. Pretend you are a law enforcement officer at a crime scene, and question the telemarketer as to their relationship with "the deceased", ascertain their location and then pretend a unit is on its way to question them

Scumbags

[kstatefan40]

These guys were targeting primarily older users. They called my parents at least 5 times telling them they could tell there were viruses on their machine and that if they didn't pay the fee, the computer would stop working. My mother asked me what she should do, and I told her to get a contact number so she could forward to the Kansas Attorney General.

Phone call went like this:

"Can I get your number so I can send it to the Kansas Attorney General for investigation?"

"What?"

"I need your number so I can send it to the AG."

[someone in the background] "HANG UP! HANG UP NOW!"

Never called back. Problem solved.

Re:Scumbags

[LizardKing]

These guys were targeting primarily older users.

Yup, they targeted my elderly neighbour and a number of her friends, but I've never heard of them targetting younger people. This suggests to me that they have access to data on people so they can pick the best targets. The only commonality we could find amongst the victims we knew was that they had called British Telecom's broadband support lines in India ...

Tele-guru tech bastards - No [w]alues

[Penurious Penguin]

My aunt who operates her own publishing company, was recently 'had' by similar tele-guru tech bastards. From the audio recording, it sounds almost identical to what she described to me. She didn't even know she'd been scammed until after I heard the story, poked around in the logs and such, and explained the dupe. It cost her something near $100 and I spent my own time trying to figure out WTF was going on and checking for problems. Many people are unaware that Microsoft never contacts their customers unless an active request is pending. My aunt is no dummy and is a power-user in her own niche; however, she simply has never had time to keep up with modern nonsense. I was actually more furious than she was when we concluded it was a scam. I still have no sure way of knowing exactly what these scoundrels did beyond what I was able to undo. It is nice to have word of the demise of at least some of these louts.

Toward the end of the audio recording is a real treasure. How do they justify what they do with themselves? They are simply a bunch of boody motherfuckers with no [w]alues.

Part 2: illegal wiretapping...

[jd659]

If telemarketers had slightly more power (think *AA) the guy posting the scam on the web site would end up in jail for illegally wiretapping phone conversations and own millions in damaged due to "lost business". We need to have the laws passed that safeguard the current telemarketing business model!!!

Re:Part 2: illegal wiretapping...

[jd659]

Obviously that depends on the state, hence the "IF telemarketers had slightly more power..." If they did, all the states would make such recordings of telemarketers illegal. Like uploading a movie to a country where it is legal to share movies.

Re:Part 2: illegal wiretapping...

[mark-t]

Not necessarily.

First of all, it depends on where the person who is doing the recording is located. In many jurisdictions, it is perfectly legal to record a conversation if at least one of the parties being recorded is aware of it.

And of course, quite often they will say that the call may be recorded for quality assurance purposes. Although they are talking about recording it themselves, those exact words also have the upshot of giving you permission to record the conversation as well.

And if there's really any doubt, you can just politely mention at the start of the call that it's being recorded, and then you're covered even in territories where both parties must be aware of a recording for it to be legal. After you've announced this, they can either continue to talk to you being in full awareness of the fact, or they can hang up.

Re:Obvious

[aevan]

Madam Butterfly, NC17 version. Coming soon in 3D

Interesting but needs some work

[Fuzzums]

For technical people like us, it's totally obvious what's happening, but still "a bit long and boring".
What this video need is a shorter version (3 minutes tops, I think) that explains what's happening in wording that my mother will understand.
Then it will be very useful to educate the non-technical rest of the world and make them aware of the ***** **** ******kers ******** ** out there and prevent them for falling for this ***t.

Re:serious question

[Pseudonym Authority]

Build confidence and look as transparent as possible.

Local police anti-fraud specialist resources

[cojsl]

We recently invited the local police department's anti-fraud specialist to speak to our local computer users group about this and similar topics in the wake of this scam robo-dialing it's way across our area. The officer gave an interesting talk, and shared several anecdotes about scam methods that were new to me. If you have a local computer users group, civic organization, seniors group, or the like, a presentation like this is a great way to spread the word on scam prevention.

Who are the customers?

[Adam Appel]

I can't believe anyone in this day will give any information to someone that cold calls them.

The direct YouTube URL for this video

[Swave An deBwoner]

I was having trouble view the video from the given "temporary" website's embedded link but I found it on YouTube. Here it is if you want it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7zuQ8mYpog

Or you can watch presidential debate with Mitt

[Pecisk]

Actually I think these debates should be recorded and showed later at scammers school, because it's high class lying.

thanks

[Tom]

When the original story aired, I couldn't make sense of it, had no clue what the scam was. Now I at least have a rough idea.

Re:A lifetime contract for AV software!

[mark-t]

Lifetime AV contracts exist, but they only apply for the lifetime of the installation. Any reinstallation requires a new contract, and of course, it's not transferrable.