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Ask Slashdot: How Would You Convince Someone To Give Up an Old System?
First time accepted submitter Vanderhoth writes "I'm currently serving as a new member of a board for a not for profit organization. The board currently has a few other members, and a couple of vacant positions. One of the issues I've noticed since joining the board is the method in which they conduct business is very out of date. The member that maintains our web presences (Bob) has developed a system over the last ten years to allow us to store documents, such as agendas and minutes on a website server.
Some of the big issues are:
1.) The system is very disorganized, there are documents from the late 90's that aren't relevant, but have to be sifted through to find more current stuff.
2.) Often documents are not where they should be and are difficult to find.
3.) No one except Bob really knows how the system works.
4.) No one really wants to use the system because of the monster it's become.
My concern is if Bob decided to leave the organization no one would be able to maintain the existing system and we would be scrambling to put something new in place. I feel, for what we want to do, Google Docs would be an excellent platform for collaborating and sharing documents. The other board members, except Bob, have agreed with me, but are worried that bringing the issues with the existing system may cause offense and ultimately cause Bob to leave. Other than being overly vested in a system he developed, Bob is an important part of our board and a very valuable member.
We're already having a difficult time finding members to serve on the board so it's very important that we don't lose any existing board members. I'm hoping that I can convince the Bob to start supporting some Google docs objects on the site and try to wean him off his existing system to something a bit more manageable and collaborative that can be passed on to new members and maintained easily.
I don't want this to turn into old dogs and new tricks. I'm not that far behind Bob in years and can appreciate the difficulty of being told it's time to give in to something more modern. I'm wondering how the situation could be approached tactfully so maybe Bob will see how much easier a new system could be for everyone, including him."
Some of the big issues are:
1.) The system is very disorganized, there are documents from the late 90's that aren't relevant, but have to be sifted through to find more current stuff.
2.) Often documents are not where they should be and are difficult to find.
3.) No one except Bob really knows how the system works.
4.) No one really wants to use the system because of the monster it's become.
My concern is if Bob decided to leave the organization no one would be able to maintain the existing system and we would be scrambling to put something new in place. I feel, for what we want to do, Google Docs would be an excellent platform for collaborating and sharing documents. The other board members, except Bob, have agreed with me, but are worried that bringing the issues with the existing system may cause offense and ultimately cause Bob to leave. Other than being overly vested in a system he developed, Bob is an important part of our board and a very valuable member.
We're already having a difficult time finding members to serve on the board so it's very important that we don't lose any existing board members. I'm hoping that I can convince the Bob to start supporting some Google docs objects on the site and try to wean him off his existing system to something a bit more manageable and collaborative that can be passed on to new members and maintained easily.
I don't want this to turn into old dogs and new tricks. I'm not that far behind Bob in years and can appreciate the difficulty of being told it's time to give in to something more modern. I'm wondering how the situation could be approached tactfully so maybe Bob will see how much easier a new system could be for everyone, including him."
Sounds like Bob has found a way to ensure his continued employment and everyone around is too spineless to play that game of chicken with him.
Apologies to Bill Murary!
Kidding aside, have you tried bringing it up with Bob?
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell"
Aldous Huxley
Why don't you just tell him what you explained above
Bob is his last name, right? Because this sounds a lot like Microsoft Bob...
Lock Bob in the boot of a car. Come back in an hour and ask if he wants to migrate to Google docs. If he's recalcitrant, come back in another hour with a gun. Ask again. Sooner or later he'll come around.
Bob probably is well aware of the chaotic disorganization of his system as well, where I suspect he devised something that worked well in small form, but simply is not scaling out beyond its original intent. If you approach it with educating him on understanding Google Docs, and what value it provides, he should start to learn for itself its advantages and how it actually makes it EASIER to manage the docs. He may well fully embrace the idea then on his own (the easier way to get want you want is he wants it as well). Be careful though... he may also finally have found the person he has been looking for all these years to take over the job and do whatever the hell they want with it, in which case he says congrats to you and its yours forever to maintain (until the next solid contributor comes along in 20 years).
-A Jaded Board Member
First off, I have dealt with Bob types in the past. A good (subjective) computer person can figure out anything Bob did, maybe not right off, but would. Any horse can be rode, and any man can be throw'd.
Layout an objective plan and how easy it'll will be and how much money it will save them in the long run. Also note that in the future there wouldn't be a Bob problem or the cost of correcting one.
Hope that helps,
Mark V.
If the company is big enough to have a CFO explain to them the risk of if something was to happen to "Bob". He could get hit by a bus, have a heart attack or his wife could kill him for spending so much time at work patching the old system. The use of a standard modern system would help medigate that risk.
Heck given how messed up the current system is "Bob" could be stealing from the company. Do they get audited ?
or else ...
Hey Bob,
We appreciate your hard work, ability to produce and maintain this system for eons. Do you have any suggestions or ideas on how we could make this more robust? scalable? fault tolerant?
If he says no......then you got a pig to wrestle. If he says.....holy crap, I have been wanting to do something for the last 5 years but no one thought if was important.......then he tells you how he wants to migrate it to google docs and wrote this neat app he can do it on his iphone........in 10 seconds............ but someone told him it was not allowed or against policy or they would get rid of him the minute he did that.............
Usually there's a "click the read more link below to learn about Vanderhoth's amazing investment opportunities!" link. Bad samzenpus!
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
Bob has probably spent countless hours sweating and toiling on this in relative obscurity. The key to pulling this off in my opinion is to recognize his work and talk about the features you'd like to get added to the website. Constructing the right feature requests will help him come on board with an alternative solution.
From your description, Bob may have a vested interest in the old system. Security, self worth, whatever. Bob may feel that his value is tied with the old system. So going after the old system is going to feel like going after Bob, to him.
So don't fight that battle. Turn it around and make it so that Bob has an interest in the new system. Ok, that's obviously easier said than done. But there are several ways it can be done. Here are two approaches:
1) Let Bob be the hero. Talk to him privately about how he's managed miracles with what he's been given. Then ask him what he would do different if he could start over. Ask him what it would take. Offer to back him in his proposals. In short, put him in charge in a way that makes him indispensable and proud to do a good job.
2) Let him be the mentor. Similar to letting him be the hero, but with the twist of having someone else do the grunt work under Bob's wise and benevolent guidance.
3) Black box it. Ask Bob to come up with a new system, but don't get into the details. That requires a lot of trust, which may be what Bob is after anyways.
You get the idea. Play to what Bob wants and make it work for you.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
Can you link to docs in the old system? If so, create Google docs that are organized links into the old system. You want to see the minutes from all the meetings over the last year? Here's that page of links. Budgets? Here it is.
Over time you'll make the Google Docs the de factor standard. Once everyone is accustomed to using Google docs, you can start creating new docs in any system. Including Google docs.
This will gradually wean people off the old system without any single, massive switch. And hopefully it'll be a nice, gradual process.
btw, if the old system doesn't support links into documents, you can ask Bob to add it.
Agile Artisans
Just a few quick possibilities:
1) You could try the 'duplicate, don't replace' strategy. For instance, minutes of the board meetings go in Google Docs (so they can be searched more easily) and then are copied over to Bob's system once approved. If you do it right, eventually Google docs will start to become the primary source system - simply because it's easier to use - but Bob will still be maintaining his system. The downside to this is that you'll have a lot of documents in two places but eventually you can drop the one that isn't working.
2) You try to give Bob some kind of new, very cool project for him to work on - that is, give him a way cooler, more interesting bone and maybe he'll drop the one he's got. How's your donor database? Do you need some kind of app built for mobile or something? Once he's up and handling that (and gotten some real street cred for a good project), you might be able to obsolete the document management thing.
3) Work on a Business Continuity Plan: an early step in all BCP's is to make sure that you can (a) recover the documents if disaster hits and (b) that no one person is a single point of failure. Use the recent 'Sandy' events to emphasize that this is not a slur against Bob but the organization has to be able to survive even if the current 'datacenter' (even if it's just a machine under a desk) is flooded/destroyed. Google Docs is far cheaper from a recovery point of view.
4) Emphasize the shared document approach to Google Docs - if you have remote meetings, it's much easier to use Google docs to share/edit and remotely collaborate. Again, merging with approach #1 (use Google Docs until it's finalized, then it goes into the Bob system) might work well.
Good luck.
What I would do personally is make your own system on the D/L, call it 'making a backup'...or some such...work at home...out of the office...there are entire pages of content management systems out there you can run right on your desktop or to a server...call it 'administrative upgrade'...if you're that worried about your system now, believe me, in the world of data management...it's best to CYOA.
There are three kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't.
This is a political problem, not a systems problem.
After over a decade in systems administration, I just a job where for six years I was an IT manager. There, I learned that the skills involved in managing projects and people are a vastly underrated skill among systems specialists. The belief is often that the right system - new hardware; new software - will somehow solve an organization problem that's inherently political in nature. By that I mean, a people problem. And I think you've got a people problem here. Which doesn't mean your documentation system isn't out of date, doesn't need a refresh, etc. It means that a core member of your team is out of step with the needs of the organization, as defined by a majority board vote.
You have three choices:
A) attempt to persuade this board member that his system needs a revamp, set a series of goals to achieve that he'll buy into, and give him the project to manage. Specify benchmarks and a timeline to achieve these goals and have the board review the project on a regular basis. Then the board must fulfill its obligation to the organization by grading project success on an honest but fair basis. If he honestly works toward these goals, then the issue will resolve itself in time. Otherwise, the board must consider the possibility of transitioning him off a leadership role in that project.
B) Fire him. Do it now. Accept the fallout and hire someone else to clean up the mess.
C) Do nothing.
---
Option A: keeps someone in place who has shown himself to be an important team member who has strayed from the needs of the organization, but who recognizes this and shifts course as a result. This is the preferred course.
Option B: cuts your losses now and takes the hit quickly, while the problem is fresh. This is a harsh course, but at least is a response to the problem at hand.
Option C: 'do nothing' is a total loser. A problem recognized and yet not pursued to resolution festers until systems collapse, often at the worst time while leaving the organization unprepared for the consequences.
But the first thing you've got to realize is that Google Docs is not your solution. Google Docs may be a fine system, and a worthy systems choice. But your problem is not 'the system'. Your problem is that one person in a leadership role in the organization has strayed from board consensus, and as a result has assumed command responsibilities he does not legitimately hold. That's what you and the board must address.
new member
Bob has it all over you. You can make a brilliant case and Bob will quietly pigeonhole enough support to get his way. In the meantime you'll squander whatever little political capital you have squabbling with Bob. Don't squabble with Bob.
convince Bob
Bzzt. Wrong. Bob is not the guy you need to convince. You need to convince everyone else. Here are some ideas on how to do that.
First, demonstrate the weaknesses. Place legitimate demands on Bob's system that you know it can't handle (revision control, secure remote access, ACL, etc.) Make him squirm and come up with excuses. Don't offer an alternative because that just leads to squabbling. Don't squabble with Bob. Just make the system and Bob's advocacy of it look bad.
Do something "new" in your prefered alternative system. It has to be something that does not require or even suggest that it belongs in Bob's baby, because otherwise you're back to squabbling. Don't squabble with Bob. This is where you show how inadequate Bob's system is. This has been how middle managers sneak solutions into institutions for decades; go around IT. If the system is really as bad as you say it is then this is already happening anyhow. Look carefully for those cases. You may be able to adopt them.
Wait. Eventually some happy user of your alternative system, armed with knowledge and frustration with the inadequacies of Bob's system you carefully surfaced, will begin to argue for your solution. "XYZ can do it, why shouldn't we use that instead?"
Wait. Eventually Bob's system will crumble a bit because Bob doesn't scale (medical problems, boredom, incompetence, whatever) and you're there ready to go with a proven solution, advocates and everything.
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
1.) The system is very disorganized, there are documents from the late 90's that aren't relevant, but have to be sifted through to find more current stuff.
Google Docs won't fix that.
2.) Often documents are not where they should be and are difficult to find.
Google Docs won't fix that.
3.) No one except Bob really knows how the system works.
Google Docs will fix this.
4.) No one really wants to use the system because of the monster it's become.
Google Docs may not fix this. See #1 and #2.
Besides the passive aggressiveness in this post, you might have bigger communication issues on your board than just the document collection system. If you want a more concrete suggestion: convert Bob's entire system into Google Docs, fix it up so it provides the same member benefits as Bob's system (no, one big "oldshit" folder won't cut it) and then give him a demo. And really dig into #1 and #2 - that's a problem with any document collection system ever built.
Google docs for board meetings? *facepalm*.
I work for an school district that employs a web based product that manages board meetings. It handles agendas, attachments, motions and voting, as well as keeping a measure of the minutes. I would suggest examining the options available and getting some demos. Once you've seen something that grabs your interest, involve Bob. Tell him you just found this think that you think would make everyone's job easier. But don't involve Bob alone, introduce it as "something you saw" to the whole board. This will make it so you aren't pointing out how horrible Bob's system is, you're pointing out how wonderful the new system is. Perhaps Bob is buried and doesn't know a way out, or perhaps he's clutching onto this thing as his personal feeling of self-worth(which would be sad).
1) Identify a new possible(needs to be MUCH better then the current) solution
2) Bring it to the attention of the board as a whole
3) Let the whole board carry the conversation, and let Bob make his defense if he really wants to. If he's shut out of the decision making process, he'll probably want to leave. If he makes an obviously stupid defense in the face of overwhelming benefit, then thats on him, and he'll see it at some point (even if he never admits it).
This is a common scenario. Basically not one organisation should depend on a single person. To deal with such a scenario, I would suggest you approach Bob and ask him "what if you get hit by a bus tomorrow?". His response will reveal his personality. Either he depends on the power he has accumulated, or he will understand the problem. In the former case you are in a big deal of trouble, in the latter case you might brainstorm together and find a practical solution.
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
Google docs will be the exact same mess in 10 years that your current system is now ...if it lasts that long. Just have Bob tidy shit up and fix the band-aids come back in another 10 years
Show them how the new system will save them money
Money talks and bull shit walks
Your comment indicates that existing board members have informed you that your idea may not be welcomed by Bob. Listen to them. He has been personally invested in this for quite some time and may not welcome the new guy rocking the proverbial boat, I'd suggest the best way to pursue this would be to have the move to Google be Bob's idea. Have Bob show you his work, appreciate how much time and effort he's put into it and when you get to functionality that it doesn't do or doesn't do well steer the conversation towards filling those gaps. Ask Bob how he would do it on his site or ask him for his ideas. It's very likely that Bob isn't any happier with his solution than anyone else is, but he's personally invested in it. It's that investment you need to recognize in order for your migration suggestion to be successful - for everyone. If you can get Bob to be part of the solution, he may well invest just as much time in that as he did this.
Learn how to be a proper board member.
In short: submit an agenda item to discuss resolving issues to the document management system. Either ask Bob if he'd like to present a plan of his own to resolve the problems along with your own, or let the board discuss the problems and request plans of action from you, Bob, and anyone else. At the next meeting, the plans are presented and one is selected by the board.
Everything is above board, he's given a completely legitimate/fair shot at fixing the problems, and if the board fairly discusses and votes against him, he at least should feel he was treated fairly, and it won't impact his desire to help the organization.
IF and ONLY IF he's treated fairly and he goes off in a huff about the whole thing, then so be it. He's toxic.
If you go sneaking around trying to build support for switching to google docs (which you've kind of already done - you need to buy a copy of Robert's Rules of Order and read up about polling, and why you don't do it), then ambush Bob at a meeting and throw up a motion to switch to Google Docs - he's rightfully going to be angry and defensive, and it will definitely impact his contributions or cause him to leave.
Please help metamoderate.
One thing I thought was missing from the post was, "Why can't you learn/reorganize the system yourself (or have someone else non-Bob do it)?" It's the best of both worlds, keep Bob while having a functional system? I've worked for a large NPO and change is very scary (not to mention the fact, electronic transmittal of confidential documents via the internet (ie. use of Google Docs) is commonly forbidden).
Too bad we can't claim (that I know of) our posts accidentally submitted without first authenticating. If I wrote such a feature, I might compare requestor's IP and browser headers against the submission in question, then only change Anonymous Coward to Absent Minded Professor. ;) Speaking of things I would do, when it comes to Bob, you could always forget changing his mind and then hire me to have that fun... eheh
I'm wondering how the situation could be approached tactfully so maybe Bob will see how much easier a new system could be for everyone, including him."
If the situation is as bad as you describe then there is a person (Bob) who holds the entire company hostage, and nobody is willing to defy Bob's will - not even the CEO or whoever there is.
If the CEO is not willing to cross Bob then why should you? Is there a reason why you'd sacrifice yourself for the common good? Your fellow board members aren't willing to deal with Bob, they want to sit it out while you and Bob are fighting. Do you want that role? What is the upside for you?
The company in such a shape is already in trouble. It cannot govern itself; instead of being governed by rational decisions that are based on facts the company is governed by personal opinions of strongmen who refuse to consider alternatives no matter what. This is not a healthy company to work for. Bob can flip his lid at any time, for any reason. If he, being omnipotent, wants you gone then you will be gone. If that describes the company well enough then I would quit - there is no future for the company, and there is no future for you as a part of it. The only alternative is to seize control of the company. I don't think this is what you are thinking toward because in that case Bob and his problems would be discarded as a bad dream, and you wouldn't need to ask Slashdot how to deal with a generally simple management problem (a rogue employee, a.k.a. a loose cannon.)
Seems you have summed up a very typical problem. Not just with computer guys, but with all sorts of professions. So the question really is how can you lead Bob to make changes in how he does things so everybody can find what they need, without making him feel threatened or defensive about how things are now. Apparently you don't think the direct approach is a good because you fear that Bob might be offended and leave, dropping the whole thing in your lap. So how about some indirect approaches?
Start asking Bob about how you can find things you need. Ask him to help you locate some documents that might be fairly obscure. Then ask him how he knew where it was so you won't have to bother him all the time asking for help. Say things like, "Man, I wish I understood how this is organized as well as you, I hate having to bother you." You might find out that there really IS a system that can explain what Bob is doing, or Bob, being the helpful sort, may actually figure out that he needs to organize things a bit to help everybody out and start doing it on his own. He may even ask for suggestions or even help, at which point your problem gets solved and Bob stays.
Other indirect approaches are similar. Ask questions, Ask for help, Ask why things are where they are. You can even ask if he's ever seen this tool or that, would that make your life easier? Just try to never hint that there is a problem until Bob starts talking about it as a problem, then offer to help with what ever solution Bob thinks is best.
If indirect doesn't help, then you need to decide if it is worth the risk of loosing Bob by coming out and just saying there is a problem. If it's worth it, confront him about it directly. If it's not, then forget about it and just live with the issue.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
...and it's a sticky situation. The easiest thing to do might be to initiate a cost/benefit analysis of the current system vs another one, entirely based around the idea of cost (running the servers, maintenance costs if any, storage upgrades). Time spent on the system should only be included in the analysis if anyone is being paid. Make sure to include Bob (or even better, ask if he'd volunteer as the "systems expert"), and have him help choose alternatives for the comparison. If you do have an existing solution in mind, suggest it in VERY broad terms ("maybe compare it to some online services - Google Docs is one that I keep hearing about"). Make sure that there's a numbers person involved as well (accounting or something similar) to run the figures, so there's a reality check on it. Then, DROP IT. Get yourself out of the way, and let the process take its course. Once the final report is in, the rest of the board can make the determination which way to go. If they stick with Bob and his methods after an audit, then you really have a simple choice - work with it, or leave.
You think it's not possible to make a c***-heap out of stored data in a new system?
-wb-
Are you crazy?
Why would you go to anything entirely controlled by an outside entity which could decide to change interfaces or deprecate your entire workflow for no particular reason?
You obviously have access to a server, and you have a lot of legacy files. Look into a document management system that has a search function built in, and call it a day. For bonus points, create a folder structure which you find relevant and suggest everyone abide by it.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
So if you think Google docs is a good replacement, I can definitely tell you that Google Docs supposed to be easy enough for anybody to set up and use. Or maybe you need Bob to read the manual. So, set it up, start using it, and if you cannot argue for the benefits of Google Docs (or some other system) you can always argue for redundancy as being a good (even if it is in the cloud).
No offense, and nothing personal, but I know people like you... Mr. "great ideas", sometimes Mr. streams of "briliant ideas". The problem with Mr. "idea" is that most of them need Bob to change a light bulb, and definitely need Bob to find the readme.txt file. The other problem with Mr. "idea" is that once Bob changes the light bulb to the 30 year lifetime bulb, and Bob implements Google Docs, Bob becomes "useless", Mr. Idea gets all the credit, until of course the light bulbs need to be changed again.
Bob
I've found myself in similar predicaments. When it comes to governance, boards make decisions, not individuals. Directors must have enough respect for their fellow board members to be willing to hear differing opinions. Why should Bob hold so much power of the other directors? Is Bob really that bossy, or are the other directors really that insecure? Either way, the board should address this problem before anything else. If Bob is truly offended by a relevant suggestion, it is possible that unrealistic expectations were set when he joined the board. Or, perhaps he shouldn't be on the board in the first place.
Lastly, the points you make as to why the system should be abandoned could be indicators of other problems.
1. See point 4--if no one uses the system, no wonder there are out of date documents. Systems must be maintained.
2. Again, see point 4--if no one uses the system, no wonder it's disorganized. Systems must be maintained.
3. Why haven't the others taken an interest in learning how the system works?
4. Is this really accurate? Perhaps it's become a monster because no one uses it and Bob finds himself overwhelmed.
Perhaps all the members could use a lesson in cooperation. Has anyone spoken to Bob to see how he feels about the system? He may have designed it, but even he should be able to see its flaws. Perhaps Bob never got any input from anyone else who uses the system. Of course, that requires people to actually use the system in the first place. Perhaps Bob never got any input from the intended users before building the system. In my personal experience, I've learned not to invest a significant amount of time in a project unless it will help me, personally, or the folks it will benefit are actively involved in its creation. If it's not going to help me and no one else cares, why should I waste my time?
"I've heard about a lot of stories recently about big companies getting hacked or their documents being held hostage by hackers that encrypt them. Do we have a backup for the documents on this server? If not, I'd like you to work on coming up with a backup system -- maybe something like Google Docs or something similar."
If that doesn't work, let him go on vacation for a couple days. Call him repeatedly asking for help locating documents during that vacation. You want to annoy him just a little bit. When he returns, apologize for disturbing him so much then suggest that you had trouble navigating the system. If the documents were organized a little better, or if there was less old cruft, you wouldn't have had to disturb his vacation so often. Offer to help him if he wants to spend a little time reorganizing or exploring alternate solutions that may have features to make his task of document maintenance and your task of document location easier.
In my experience (speaking as someone old enough to remember watching the coverage of President Kennedy's assassination on television), the odds are not good, since the existing people are typically happy with the existing system -- otherwise, they would have changed it by now. However, one hope is to find a value of your organization -- and it'll be specific to each organization -- that would be improved by the change you desire.
Note that this is not your value, but a stated value of the "old guard" that could be improved by the new system -- and, usually, avoiding the mortality of the old guard itself is not an acceptable value. Extra credit if you can arrange a discussion of the old guard value in such a way that Bob can take credit for the improved performance of the new system.
Often, like so much in life, people with existing beliefs have to pass on before new ideas are accepted; ask yourself if you will be open to replacing your Google Docs system by something you don't know and have never heard of, in ten or twenty years' time.
Recognize that you will have to do all the work to install the new system, just as Bob did to install his own system years ago.
3 suggestions from someone who has worked for many nonprofits.
1) If you have any staff members, make technology a staff responsibility. More than just passing the buck, this puts control of tech decisions in the hands of the folks who work with it most often.
2) Ask Bob to chair the Board's nominating committee. This committee is responsible for finding new Board members (which you seem to need) and for monitoring Board terms and committee assignments. Hopefully, this will lead Bob to recognize that Board turnover is a healthy thing and that leaving one responsibility with one person for too long is not good for the organization.
3) Elect Bob as President or Chairperson of the Board. With so many other important things to focus on, he may be more willing to let go of his tech fiefdom.
Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
Not knowing what system Bob currently has in place, Google Docs may (or may not) be an improvement.
However, there is no such thing as a document management system that can't be screwed up for it's effectiveness by poor data hygiene processes.
Any system needs to have a high level plan for how the data will be structured and organised. Meta data needs to be agreed upon and used. The information architecture needs to scale and be flexible to be restructured if something changes in how you want to access it (say in response to mandatory reporting requirements being changed).
The tool in most cases is the least important part. It's how intuitive the navigation is and how well everyone sticks to using the agreed (and published) naming conventions and saving files in the agreed locations. Even simple things like naming your files YYYYMMDD_Agenda.doc can help make things easier to find and simpler to sort.
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
Once you can answer the WIIFM question, then you are ready to talk to Bob. Bob will be asked to do work - to change the way he works, to learn a new system. In the short term, this will cause hassle, frustration, delay and extra work. Those are all negative things. Change _itself_ can be perceived as a negative thing.
To be worth it, it needs to either save Bob time, or remove one of his pain points. The board doesn't matter, no one else matters. Only Bob's pain points matter.
So, look at the existing system from Bob's point of view. What does he spend most of his time doing? How can you make that faster and less error prone? If you can do that, then you have the hook to pull in changes that benefit everyone else.
Make copies of everything into google docs or whatever new system you want, then "accidentally" erase his software. Bonus points if you can make it look like a hardware failure.
Do not ever put any critical system, such as board records, in such a precarious situation as there being a single point of failure. Because it *will* eventually fail, and then you're screwed. By all means, use Google Docs, but as a *backup*. Encrypt everything you upload on there. This is for the security of the data, not to prevent the right people from accessing it - so you could safely write the decryption keys on post-its for the purpose. Your working directories should be local and duplicated, not running (hence relying on) Google Docs, which is every bit as vulnerable to outage as any online service. Now you have three copies - two mirrored live and a failover which is offsite. Standardise your data. Use whatever method you choose for this, but it should be robust and human-readable as well as software-searchable and fully indexed.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
It has worked for me since the days of PC Jr.
i want to see if I understand this clearly:
Bob's experience and competence in other areas are regarded as indispensable to a board that is struggling to fill at least two critical vacancies .
Bob built this system on his own time for an NPO that appears to have no IT staff or competence whatever and a board which seems almost too eager to embrace an alternative solution --- any solution --- proposed off-stage by its most junior member.
How you avoid the blow-up to come, I can't even begin to guess.
Add a function that automatically uploads the docs to Google docs when they are uploaded to the old system, and a small button to view them using Google docs. People, including Bob, can then try out the new "G Docs" in the context of the old. Then two months later ask Bob how he thinjs G Docs might be more integrated into the UI.
I'm a trainer and implementer for a an accounting application customized for a particular industry. We are a global company with about 1500 active customer installations and a user base of about 25000 with our software managing labor and payroll for about 250,000 workers. Our accounting software is used by many publicly traded corporations, a few of which are on Nasdaq and other world exchanges. That is my background. What I do is go into a company that has bought our software and teach them how to use it. I also at the same time help them with process improvement, efficiency, and raw material reductions. I represent change at a company. Many of the people I work with fear me simply because they know everything is about to change. And Im the one that is going to be changing it. Some of the companies I have been working with have been doing things the same way for literally decades. One company I'm working with now setup their current system over 20 years ago. Needless to say I run into a lot of paper and human processes where people are waiting for pieces of paper to come to them or for pieces of information to be communicated to them by another person. Needless to say that there is a lot of paper and a lot of waiting involved. They have only 15 people in their front office and they go through at least a case of paper each week. The 30 people on my floor at my office by comparison go through less than 500 pages of copy paper per week. Different type of work yes, but the point remains that there is a lot of waste going on. So Im changing everything for these people. Im bringing them a whole new paradigm in how they work. A cliche yes, but an appropriate one. I am taking them out of the stone age and into the information age. Documents are scanned in at the very beginning of their process. That paper is then archived in a filing cabinet and will only be retrieved if needed by an auditor. When needed certain documents will only be reprinted at the very end of the process. Also, instead of having to wait for a person to deliver paperwork to be alerted that they have work to do, once a new order is created an email is sent to 3 different people indicating that they have work to do and what the order number is. They can now login to the system, find the order, and begin working independently of each other and concurrently. Information about the order, instead of being handwritten is now recorded in the system. If you need that information, instead of having to track down the file folder, it is now available in the system. Need a milestone date? Its in the system. Need to know if something shipped? Its in the system. Waiting for parts to come in? Instead of having to run report to see that they are past due, you now get an email alerting you that your parts have not been delivered on time and are past due. When they are delivered, you get an email. The receiving guy, instead of having to deliver parts receiving information to someone who then checks to see if the parts have been allocated to an order yet or should be warehoused, now gets a pop up window telling him which parts are allocated to orders and need to be delivered versus being put away. So HUGE changes in the way they do business. How do I get people to go along with the changes Im bringing them? By making the changes, and how I explain them, as relevant to the person as possible. On my first day I learn as much as I can about the customer Im working with. What their processes are, what their people do, how they work, what their issues with the way they work are. I then mimic their existing processes as much as possible so as to not change too much (there is always time for additional changes later on down the road). And then when I deliver the training, Im able to say "Here is how you are doing things now. Which has these issues: A, B, and C So here is what we are doing now. Because we do step 1 followed by step 2, that resolves problem A. Because problem A is resolved, problem B is resolved. That sets us up f
Maybe it started off with a simple system like you are proposing and then edge cases created the complexity. You really need to understand the current system or work with somebody who does before you can effectively replace it with something else.
I support Bob's opposition to Google docs.
You sound like you need to gather a little more information on the problem. The most important things concern Bob. Bob being a possible flight risk makes finding out exactly why he would leave very important. It probably won't be 100% one specific reason, but figure out the split. Ego? Job security? (even if not gainful) Pride in his "child" project? Worries for the organization's welfare if his masterpiece is replaced with a bad system? There are many other possibilities, and better understanding his concerns will provide you with better direction.
What you do from there varies wildly depending on what you find. Taking anyone here's single advice based on your limited information is almost acting at random.
You also need to find out where Bob would like to see the system in 10 years. He may think it's fine the way it is, or see its shortcomings. If you can get him to explore the possibilities you may find his attitude shifts radically in your favor. Don't shove it in his face, try to let him open his own eyes so he doesn't clam up while going on the defensive. People are much more receptive to the voice of reason when it's coming from within.
If you can't get him to acknowledge that change is necessary, then it's time to take off the gloves and force the issue. If you're afraid he's going to jump ship now, don't think about how bad it will be tomorrow... think about how much worse it will be when it (inevitably) happens 5-10 years from now. If you put it off, it will only get worse.
If Bob goes on the D and you need to diffuse the situation, walk him through the "bus error" scenario. There's no malice possible there, it's just him placing you in a very dangerous, completely unavoidable risk of serious problems, including collapse of the business. Is keeping the system the way it is worth risking the loss of the entire enterprise? If he thinks it is... then you're wasting your time, he's just being a BOfH. Go completely on the offensive, swallow the big bitter pill, and forcefully change things as you either watch him leave, or shove him out the door.
I hope that helps you with the next few steps. Good luck.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Make sure you have a full, offsite, verified backup that ISN'T under the control of Bob, just in case he takes the news badly. ;)
It's the only way to be sure.
Mostly.
I really don't appreciate the fact you are talking about me behind my back in that passive aggressive tone. Now if you'll excuse me, I must tender my resignation to the board.
Good day, sir.
-Bob
Honestly. Breaking it now once and for all is the best and easiest for all concerned.
But first get all the stuff out that you can.
I'd start with having the board agree to purge all the old docs from the old system. You'll have to do this anyway whether you stay put or move to a different product.
Get agreement and set Bob to work on that. If he doesn't get frustrated and give up, move on to the next step, which is to decide a document hierarchy and have him implement it. If Bob doesn't get sick of that, proceed to the next step, always making the steps reasonable and never losing sight of the ultimate goal -- to have a robust system that people actually want to use.
At some point, one of the following will happen: (a) Bob will quit. While not ideal, this gives you the opportunity to bring someone in to dump the content out of his code, sort it, drop old documents, and move it to Google Docs. (b) Bob will whip his system into shape and make it more useable. This is not a bad solution, as your goal is (or should be) to have a usable system, not specifically to migrate to Google docs. Bob might even surprise you, given the proper motivation. (c) Bob will suggest that we move the content to Google docs to save him work.
Alternately, you could just live with the way things are. But if you're genuine in improving the system, not just cutting Bob out of the deal, you'll have to involve him in the solution. It's not an easy thing to do, but management never is.
Personally, I wouldn't want to have a career maintaining some clunky system I had cobbled together, because (a) it's boring, and (b) it's a lot of work for not much reward. In the past I have jumped at the chance to move on to something that was maintained by someone else so I could build something new.
Years and years ago, I built a content management system from scratch in PHP. The actual content was in text files, (not even HTML) and the code took care of formatting and presentation, on the fly. It included a dynamic gallery that would build an index on the fly from a hierarchy of folders containing images. It was fun to build and worked fairly well. I had four websites using it at one time.
A year or two later, I realized that there were a bunch of free CMS packages out there that looked better than mine and did more things, so rather than compete with that, I audited them, selected the best fit, and converted. I'm proud of my code, but it's not about the code, it's about the content, and it was time to move on to other projects. Hopefully, Bob will see the wisdom in that.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Too many people are treating this like a business or office problem. Every suggestion to get rid of Bob, build a new system behind Bobs back or go over his head is just wrong. For a small board of not for profit members, you all need to be working together to get anything done.
Right now everyone but Bob agrees that the system needs to be updated. The system build and run by Bob is Bobs baby. Insulting the system is insulting Bob. At the same time, Bob is probably aware of what is in the system and how much work it would be to reorganize and move all the information, which might be overwhelming for Bob. When you talk to Bob about the system, you don't want to be listing every fault and everything that is doesn't do. Instead, talk to Bob about things that you and the other members would like to add to their computer systems. Features that would help improve daily business. Ask Bob for his opinion on something that he thinks might be a good solution. Ask him if Google Docs would work and if not, why not? Involve Bob in creating something new and not hot to get rid of his hard work.
Working together, design a system layout for how information should be separated and organized. How will information be accessed and by who? What security measures need to be taken and information backup. Only once the layout is designed do you start putting any information in it.
Transition slowly, start with something small and simple like meeting minuets. Start using the system and get everyone involved that needs to be so everyone knows how to access information, how to input new information and document everything so when anyone new joins, they have something to read to get caught up quickly. When people get familiar with the new system, start bringing more data over and use the new system for imputing that data as well.
The key is not to fight Bob or exclude Bob but to involve him. Offer your help with any and all parts of the project but at the same time, make sure there is something for Bob to be in charge of and responsible for. Holding his hand the whole time will be just as insulting as telling him the failures of his system.
You didn't have to post this as AC, Bob. Everyone knows its you. Just tell us how you really feel.
As others have said, I would not recommend Google Docs since they keep discontinuing products.
It also would seem difficult to organize a lot of files there.
Follow the advice of other poster recommending running the board professionally and not sneaking around or preconceiving you need a certain product. Sounds like Bob has done good work for you all, give him a chance to discuss it with you.
Frankly you could get a cheap hosting service (just throwing out a name, hostgator for $6 a month..) which will let Bob or someone else build a content management system for you.
Start with outlining the current problems, and what the goals of the new system would be. For example a CMS could let multiple people in your organization contribute regularly to the website or CMS.
What you need is to work out a good taxonomy, and that can be done easily with a whiteboard. Once everyone is clear on the classification and processes, then you can decide if "Bob's system" is the right implementation or not.
Technology can be an enabler for business (or non-profit) but selecting the tool should be the last step in any IT project, not the first one (unless you believe in SAP but then it's a whole different problem).
lucm, indeed.
what is to keep you from encrypting your documents before you save them to the cloud?
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
I'm coming at this after twenty+ years on non-profits, including time as a consultant, and time working with technology.
Your'e new. Too new to be suggesting anything dramatic unless you have been explicitly drafted to do so. If you're not 100% sure that is the case, then it's not. All that you'll do is piss people off.
You're new. It will take you at least 18 to 24 months to really understand how the organization works. And that much longer until you know the history behind the way things work. Now's the time to sit tight, keep your mouth shut, and listen and watch.
Ignore Bob's stuff. Almost certainly 95% of anything really important exists on paper - primarily minutes and budget docs. The rest is historical stuff that's nice to have, but not mission critical. I once stepped into a non-profit which, after twenty years, had exactly one banker's box of records. Someone had purged everything else in the place. We survived.
Start from scratch. Seriously, just start creating records in a new organised format. Leave the old stuff on the (virtual) shelf. If you really need it, there will be a back-up somewhere, or someone will have printed a copy.
Finally, You're brand new. Two seats are open. Records are in a mess. I'll wager that there a lot more pressing problems than just record-keeping.
Finally again, the stuff that really, really matters - minutes, budgets, grant and funding documents - should exist on paper, in a file cabinet. As much as a I love e-docs, some things are just better in a permanent, uneditable form.
Three Squirrels
When reading the start thread I realize three things: a) If I understand that correctly you want to keep Bob, but he is supposed to do it your way in future. So you don't suggest using Google Docs (this YOU and everyone else could do any time no matter if Bob goes along or not), you suggest Bob switches his system over to Google Docs. A monster that has grown for decades. Well, even if I was convinced a new system in in order, if I had to do the conversion on a voluntarily basis because someone else said it is no good anymore ... good luck ....
I miss a little bit the "So I figured out how to convert the old files into google and am working on it because I believe the new system is so much better - and I hope Bob agrees when it is done or is willing to help me with that".
b) Before you have seen the new system work with the old data ... don't assume it will be better. Bob's system with a few files worked very well as I'm sure. If you've ever used Google Docs more extensively with larger files ... *cough cough* You basically make the same error, assumptions about the systems feasibility before having significant data imported and testing with these.
c) Personally I'd not touch Google Docs with a stick for anything I don't feel comfortable to be published for everyone and their dog to see. Clouds can be hacked and Google is a nice fat target. Google Docs is beta as any other system they have so the plug can be pulled any time. I'd suggest you look into a small but reliable personal webspace, set up a system a bit more sophisticated - there are people out there who actually know this kind of thing professionally and often are willing to help out for little money if the cause convinces them. ontact other non-profits for what they use etc, get something out of the box developed for the specific application you need, have your dedicated space (few bucks per month with hostgator or such), run regular backups.
...needs to go work on his Jump To Conclusions mat.
Sounds like Bob has found a way to ensure his continued employment and everyone around is too spineless to play that game of chicken with him.
Hi,
My name is Bob. I am on the board of a small non-profit, and in my own time I built a document management system for our organization before you could buy such things off the shelf. We use it for records of board meetings and the like. Some idiot named Vanderhoth just joined the board. He is rubbishing my system which I've spent years maintaining. He complains about older documents being in the way of newer ones, but can't be bothered volunteering to help tidy the documents. He wants to throw away the whole system and go with something completely unproven. What's worse is he wants to put our documents on the cloud - at the mercy of a mega-corp that could pull their service at any time, or suffer a security breach. If this little punk had any clue he'd realize first step of moving our documents would have to be tidying them up. But he just moans to others behind my back instead. Now I hear he's posted to a large blog site called slashdot. Next time I see Vanderhoth I'm going to kick him in the nuts! If he thinks he's staying on the board for long he's got another thing coming.
Sincerely,
Bob
Exactly. Don't treat this as a fight with Bob - you're assuming that he loves his system and wants to run it forever, and that may not be the case at all. Try asking him what he thinks of Google Docs (for example), and ask him if he's ever thought about moving the board's docs there. Who knows, he might LOVE the idea - it can't be much fun single-handedly managing a custom document management system for free. Let him do the analysis and make a recommendation to the board! Who knows, he might step up and drive the migration to make his life easier. Or he might find a legitimate reason not to do so, and at least it'll be on the table to discuss openly.
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
Hire Alice! She knows all of Bob's secrets!
If the system has an older version of Windows on it, this may be the most tactful way to broach the subject. My experience (15+ years) in freelance tech support tells me that when confronted with the knowledge that an operating system will no longer receive security updates soon (or worse, already doesn't), they are glad to upgrade in order to prevent security holes that might lead to someone stealing their data. This allows you to completely sidestep the issue of possible mismanagement of the old system and start fresh with (hopefully) input from all the board members on how things should go from there.
Not another "Cloud" fetishist. The "cloud" is not the answer to your problems. It's a way to give up ownership of your data and surrender control of your data to a provider who has no legal duty to provide you with anything. It's possibly the worst decision that could be made for critical data.
At some point, one of the following will happen: (a) Bob will quit. While not ideal, this gives you the opportunity to bring someone in to dump the content out of his code, sort it, drop old documents, and move it to Google Docs.
Bob isn't a staffer you can fire and forget.
He is a senior member of the board, an advocate and fund-raiser, a very familiar face, representing an important constituency of his own among the agency's clients and financial backers,
At some point, one of the following will happen: (a) Bob will quit. While not ideal, this gives you the opportunity to bring someone in to dump the content out of his code, sort it, drop old documents, and move it to Google Docs.
Bob isn't a staffer you can fire and forget.
He is a senior member of the board, an advocate and fund-raiser, a very familiar face, representing an important constituency of his own among the agency's clients and financial backers,
I did not mean to imply that Bob was a staffer that you could fire and forget. I've been the president of my homeowner's association board -- I know about having unpaid, volunteer members of a group who have skills that the group would really suffer to be without. But are you really prepared to be held hostage by that? How important is the application? If it's not as important as Bob's participation in the group, and you can't see a way to win Bob over to your side, then you don't have a problem. At best you have an irritation that you'll just have to get used to. Or quit.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
First off, I have to ask this:
If it's to benefit everyone else, then quityer griping and come up with a design to supplant it, and get Bob's buy in. It's that simple. If you have no design suggestions, then quit yer complaining. And if you have a design proposal that will benefit no one but yourself, well then, figure out a way to have your design and his coexist without causing rifts... The problem here is: you're making an overarching statement. It's like my nephew saying "Everyone hates that game"... A game that gets 30% rating on rottentomatoes.com, a game I loved. There's nothing wrong with wanting to do things your way, but Bob's buy in doesnt' have to be the political eggshell walk you think it is, and here's why:
You may be right! BOB may even hate what his design's manifested into, because maybe he didnt foresee the design issues. It's like God saying "Everything is acceptable," then all hell breaks loose and God finds himself being tortured in hell by Office workers beating up Printers with Baseball bats while he watches Little House on the Prairie and Gilligan's Island re runs... Then comes Terminator wars because robots are driven mad by a scientist who can't figure out how to get off a tiny island that seems to have all the supplies necessary to create an entire civilization.
There comes a point in any design, where some 'order' is needed to progress a design past 'stagnation', whether it's in a grand design of life or in the office... And as a former Enterprise Architect (Star Trek), I can assure you that when you come at Bob guns loaded (like the starship), he's going to be expecting a fight which totally changes the mood and the outcome of the conversation.
But if you approach him asking him about the design, and don't tell him it's crap... because obvious, the design was in part responsible for the success of the company, maybe he just didnt foresee the growth, and even if he had, why would he want to support the design forever? My point is, try to figure out the design for yourself. Take a hard look at Bob. Who he is as a person, why he does what he does. How does his mind think. What's his background, his experience, what does he find valuable in life... And compare it to yours.
And keep this in mind: Preliminary designs are created out of necessity. Going to the 'God' example again. Maybe God had a World War he was trying to avert, an invasion of Daleks (Doctor Who), The Borg, Terminators, and Mr Smith from the Matrix all up in his rear about simply making a decision to move forward with. AS we can see, the worst has happened in alternate realities, but in our reality, the design worked .. reasonably well. There's still obviously issues with the design, such as 'God mode in video games and time travel in virtual realities' - hopefully hes not going to get up in a tizzy when this becomes available for the masses, which it very well should be. And with 8 billion people on this planet alone, hopefully the 'idea' of something is more meaningful than the physical implementation and identification...
The same thing holds true for your man, Bob. He had an idea for a system. Worked decently. Now, there's more people using it, and it's making things.. hectic.. for at the least you.. and quite possibly others. Bob should understand the dilemna that inflexibility in design presents. The idea of what his system does is still very much alive and being respected. But like anything in life, in order for life to move on, the system has to be let go by the owner so the owner can move on and enjoy the fruits of his labor, and watch as the idea of what he built takes of and others - may cause a system outage or a crash at first. But really, in the end, if he doesn't believe enough in his work to think others can take it over and honor him with new ideas of their own...
It's like the movie Tron. Life happened unexpectedly. Iso's - a miracle of life by a creation..
Now how can you honor someone more than asking him to let go of his work, just a little bit,
Sounds like you need a Content Management System. There are dozens out there.
But GoogleDocs is NOT the answer.
Curious though, how do old files get in the way?
Use whatever system you wish. Anyway, nobody is using Bob's system. Give Bob a copy of every document to put into his system and let him play alone with his system while you are using the usable one. Just make sure to give him an update of every document for him to play with. He shouldn't notice since he is the only user of his system.
Achille Talon
Hop!
Like I'm sure Bob couldn't do that? Why does Bob want to work for a sneaky non-paying bunch of people again?
If I was Bob I would say FU.
Things have gotten the way they are because nobody wanted to help and Bob has to make a living doing a real job. Why not tell him we want to update it all and make it easier for people to get involved, can the current system handle it or do you recommend something different? Forget Google Docs it is bullshit!
Well, because you like Google Docs and some other members doesn't mean it's the best solution.. Yes I understand bob's system isn't the best either, but in the end, it's all in the eye of the beholder.. If you're really into wanting to replace the system you look beyond your own shallow view of 'google docs' before deciding on that one.
Personally I would ask bob to look into fixing the problems if he can and if he can check out other systems (for inspiration). With him having to check out other systems might actually convince him his own system is in need for a change.. Trust me, Google docs is NOT the answer, and is mostly suggested by people who have not looked further (as their own gmail/google account).
You also have to remember that you're still in need to convert/transfer all the old documents to the 'new' system..
Yes Google docs can be handy, but it certainly also has it's flaws (but then every system has flaws)..
To me it seems more like you want to impose your work-habbit on others..
To be honest I'd take a ancient DOS 4.0 System written in QBasic over Google Docs any time.
First of all: Moving to Google Drive for critical docs is a stupid idea. We (me and my freelancer crew) have team stuff on Google Docs, but those are for the very most part non-critical things. The rest are docs in Git Versioning with a central virtual server to push and pull. If Google Docs shuts us down, we won't miss a step. And if our vhost ISP folds, it takes me (or anybody else on the core team) to completely set up a new one and clone to that in less than an hour. That's how it should be.
I suggest you talk to Bob about doing a redo of the system *together*, preferably on x86 Linux, some kind of distriubted versioning (Bazaar has an x-plattform idiot-safe GUI as part of the core project) and maybe with a web-frontend. There are tons of easy setup/maintain FOSS systems that offer solutions for stuff like this. Help him sort the docs and show him some neat new stuff in the FOSS world and see to it that you *both* decide which system to slowly migrate to.
Coming on board as a kid and pissing into the captains soup is a bad idea, even if you know for sure that you know much better soup. Make it clear to Bob that you are here to help, and I'm sure he'll gladly listen to your suggestions, once you've delivered on your promises.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
study your documents, which you eagerly uploaded to their server, will get intimate understanding of the model which your organization uses to do collect money for the nonprofit activity and then will start a new project on Friday, when they have 20% of work time for any new projects.
And your good old non-profit organization, which worked well for 20 years, will be out of action.
Late to the party here but this is the answer. Its clear from the summary that you filled a system with badly named files in any folder you could find. Thats the only possible way that "files from the 90's" are getting in the way. You ruined Bob's system and setting up a new one wont fix the problem. My suggestion, is to mandate the strict use of ISO 8601, yyyy-mm-dd and use it as the prefix for all files. Set your file browser to descending order and you'll always see the most recent files first, in a format more visually easy to parse than Macgrrl's suggestion of just yyyymmdd. Delimters people, use 'em! Anyone, even board members, that violate the file naming convention, send them down to Bob for a swift kick in the ass. They are the people that broke that last systerm, let Bob break them before they can do the same to the new one. Poor bob. Built something good, somethign that last and a pack of jackals fuck it up and accept no blame for its ruination.
Yeah, I know that's an over-used term, but there is an obvious path to that happy ending here. Given that warm bodies on the board are valued, and that Bob has demonstrated more value than just his body heat, it's worth keeping him around. His file storage system, maybe not so much. So, fine. Confide in Bob that there are issues, and that he should be the one to fix them. After all, he's "the keeper of the files". Feed that ego as much as possible. Seriously. It will help get him invested in the idea of bringing value to the organization. Offer your assistance in finding and implementing a solution When it's done, Bob will be happy because his status is elevated, the board will be happy because they can find their files, and you will be happy because now you have a board member who owes you big time.
Many good comments so far - I also think you should work with him in this situation. I had a similar situation once at a place where I worked, also a not for profit, also a single guy who had built the old system and was the only one who knew all about it (including passwords etc). Alienating him would have been bad, so we (three guys from a the IT department of a different division that got merged) decided to discuss it with him and credited him with the work he had done but discussed what a catastrophe it would be if he were run over by a car tomorrow. We tried to be very honest about it all and tried to get him onboard to update the systems as we went along.
In the end it worked out medium well. He had implemented a database with a very poor design and there was definitely quite a bit of friction when we tried to convince him that normalizing a database is more that just a nice idea :). In the end he left after two years or so later but we could integrate his old systems into the new ones without the fallout of cutting him lose at day one. For the organization it certainly was a very good outcome.
Oh and yes, google docs seems like a bad idea.
Seriously, fire and replace him and his decade old system with something new, better, well planned. Web document stuff isn't rocket sience, so please do yourself the fun thing and fire him. Dealing with something similar here, allthough it's much more complicated and comes down to proprietary tools, software and knowledge... Fire him.
What you need to codify is a workflow -- a process -- for creating/updating/deleting data. Without this, you could drop hundreds of thousands of dollars on an OpenText or Documentum CMS and it would quickly become the unmaintainable mess that the current solution has become. As usual, people, not technology, make the difference between a solution that succeeds and one that fails. If you have undisciplined idiots who can't be arsed to provide updated material in a timely manner and comply with reasonable policies and procedures, any shiny blingy new solution is quickly going to become fucked up as well.
I also share others' reservations about choosing a cloud-based solution. The 'cloud' should only ever be used as a backup solution, not a primary one. I'm not saying that Google will go belly-up next week, but you'd be at their mercy because they house your organisation's crown jewels. Also, Google has a habit of decommissioning technologies they view as marginal or simply not providing the profit margins they seek -- and as they're a profit-making enterprise you can't really blame them. If you're going to adopt new infrastructure (and it's vital that you have policies and procedures agreed upon and implemented first), then keep it in-house and only use Google Docs as a backup. With their published API's, it shouldn't be too hard to cron a periodic dump to Docs.
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
Unfortunately, you're the newbie and the onus is on you to prove that you know WTF you're talking about. One way to gain Bob's trust and respect is to volunteer to organise the documents into some coherent order -- but tell him what your plan of attack is before you do it. If you come off as a cavalier who's going to take no prisoners and engage in a scorched-earth strategy, all you'll do is make enemies and leave the place worse off than you found it. Nobody likes a back-dooring interloper. Take some extensive time to learn all the interplay amongst the board's members, and in the meantime develop some policies that will prevent the system from getting to its current state ever again -- with buy-in from all the key players. It'll probably take you a year to achieve all this. Oh, and please help Bob clean up the existing system. Whether or not you transition to a new system, you're going to have to muck out the stalls anyway.
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
I've been there; seen the new guy with a bunch of ideas on how to "really make this work" who has no clue but a lot of energy. Given your old dog comment you no doubt have the T shirt as well. There is reason it is that way; find out. It may have simply grown into a mess because no one, including Bob, had the time to develop a better solution. Bob had other things that were more important; and nobody else offered to help organize the mess. I would not be surprised if he agrees with your conclusion and has heard it all before. The last thing Bob needs is yet another person telling him the systems screwed up and pushing some new solution. Others have no doubt done that but when it came time to actually help they disappeared. He may be ready to say "Great idea - here is the admin ID and password; have at it. When will it be done so I can turn off the old one?"
My suggestion: Understand why it is the way it is. Think how you would respond if you were Bob and Bob were you. Work with Bob to develop a better solution, be open to the idea that Google Docs may not be it, and actually put in the time needed to implement it. There is a reason that Bob lasted 10 or more years on the board. Trying to out maneuver him is probably not a good idea. He knows the history, has the relationships, and would probably win in a showdown. OTOH, there is no reason to pick a fight when you can work out a solution that will benefit the organization; work with him and use his corporate knowledge productively. Save the fight for something that really matters.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Yours and the parent post are two of the post that make reading this thread worth while. Thanks for you suggestions, this could solve a lot of the issues we're having without actually having to move to a new system and may be an easy way to approach Bob just to get an idea of how open to changes he is.
He's not paid to do this so it's not in our interest to replace him, but when he does leave something will have to change. I'd rather start the process as I imagine Bob may not want to to this for much longer.
Have you thought about modifying your strategic plan to include features that aren't present in the current system?
You can be really creative here. Basically you just revise the desired spec on your IT system so that the current system no longer meets those requirements. Obviously, you need a sensible argument to appease Bob, but I'm sure you can figure out some BS to sell it... =)
Vanderhoth leave Bob and his system alone and do something useful instead! As long as the documents are backed up it's ok. It doesn't matter how they are organized or that you, the new guy, can't just find the right document because you are new. You get on the board and now you want to be the alpha geek This is about your status. You are on /. so we know you are old enough to know better
I help researchers assess their current processes and see the strengths and weaknesses, then work with them to develop tools to greatly reduce the weaknesses, increase the strengths, and often times build in entirely new capacities.
The way to get anyone onboard with a new system is to find the things they don't like about the current system and how they have to interact with it. They don't want to have to deal with seeing tons of old documents when they want to find new ones? Offer a way that the new system would avoid that.
To get Bob on board, you just have to find out what he doesn't like about the system and what he would fix. Make him an ally in the process. I have had clients who were deathly opposed to me coming in to work on their processes and have found ways to get them over on my side by *gasp* working with them, respecting them, and making it clear that all I want to do is help them be able to take the great stuff they're already doing and make it better/faster/more reliable.
Part of it is a type of salesmanship, getting people to buy into the idea that the time and money it takes to get and learn to use a new system will have solid benefits that vastly outweigh the cost. But if you can't give them a no-brainer value proposition, maybe the system doesn't need to be changed or you might not be the person to do it.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
New systems can end up this way. It has to do how good the person is at organizing abstracted objects.
what is to keep you from encrypting your documents before you save them to the cloud?
Lack of common sense.... the usual culprit.
An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
Here's how you do it in 3 easy steps:
Step 1: Learn Bob's system. If you're going to pull all the documents out and reorganize them in something better, you're going to want to know the current organization anyway. Plus, learning the system may give you more ammo to talk about why it's not sufficient, or how the new system will be better. It may give you the opportunity to find out from Bob what he finds dissatisfying about his current system, and it will show Bob and everyone else that you're serious about improving things, and not just replacing things without understanding them.
Step 2: Develop a plan for a new system. Do this after step 1. How do you know what the needs of the new system will be before you understand the old one?
Step 3: Pitch the new system: By now, you know Bob's system inside and out, and you know what the new system will be. It shouldn't be hard to sell it. If it is hard to sell, then maybe it's not worth doing.
While the OP did say "old dog new tricks" and all that. I'd also consider maybe asking Bob, as the creator of the system, to maybe learn a new technology, and compare it to his own, to make a side-by-side comparison of the features and possiblities of a new vs old system. Maybe even ask him to port a few of the documents to show feasibility of doing this. Then have him present his findings to the rest of the team. If he's a professional, he'll either come up with a whole new set of changes he wants on the old system (because I'll bet any new system has a lot fo smart features his hasn't being 10 years old and all), or he'll see that the new system is a good way to store stuff, and clean up the old documents at the same time.
If Bob has the gatekeeper syndrome, then putting him in charge of the transition, will simply make him the gatekeeper of a new and improoved system. Which if he can see the benefits of the transition, would make him feel even more appreciated.
In my view: The important part is to not criticise his system, but let him do it himself. He KNOWS the flaws of the old system. Getting him to admit them will make it easier for him to see why the system needs to be updated.
--- To err is human... Am I more human than most ?
I've always found a sucker rod very effective. In this case applied to the case of the system, vigorously, for a period of thirty or forty seconds while screaming "No! No! Bad! Die system die!" as parts spatter this way and that. Then -- slowly -- raise your eyes from the system to meet the eyes of the owner and say "Now, can I help you pick out a nice, shiny, new Linux-based system, sir?"
It is best to wear safety goggles while performing this procedure. I also used to keep a hammer handy in case the sucker rod proved inadequate to strip the case screws. And don't forget to spit tiny flecks of froth! They make an unforgettable impact.
rgb
Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
Which shows that upper management's personal data is exposed. Like credit card accounts,
their personal calendar, the bills they pay etc. This is a tactic a white hat buddy of mine uses
and it works like a charm. Security is "blah blah blah" until some executive's credit card
number is threatened to be exposed on the open internet.
Other than that, you have to consider it from their perspective, it still does it's job. You
could push it over the edge by proposing new functionality that will intentionally break
it, thus moving them to fire fighting mode. Other than that, it's really a social problem
and requires a social solution, not a technical one.
www.alphalinux.org
1 get very very concerned with Bobs health (what happens if you get run over by a bus??)
2 start sorting out the docs and building a tagging system (hint even if this is going To The Cloud you want a system you can kick for RIGHT NOW) for docs that are of historic value (or hysteric value) make sure you have an OBSOLETE/ARCHIVED tag.
3 start porting docs over to the "new" system as you can BUT LEAVE COPIES IN PLACE (bonus points if the new system uses the old systems datastore safely)
4 hope that when Bob Corks Off you have everything ready
BOFH Step (if you are sure you are ready)
5 arrange for a bus to run Bob over (or something similar)
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Good points, but I'm not into selling BS. Bob's a good guy and I really believe no one has approached him with the issues yet, at least not in a "your system is great and we want to keep it. How about someone helps you reorganize the files to make it more efficient"
I don't think he's a "gatekeeper" as some have said and he's just a guy that did something good that got out of hand. I've definitely reconsidered my original idea that putting things in Google Docs is the way to go. I can do somethings with Google Docs, but ultimately Bob's system is really just disorganized files. I think if I offer to learn his system and help reorganize things he'll be receptive.
Bobs experience is with an outdated system. Is there a real market for his skills?
In any case, go forward and remind everyone that Bob is the result of not spending the money to ensure there are more then ONE person who know the system Include what needs to be done to reduce the chances another Bob emerges.
If Bob leaves, you're going to have to suck it up and realize the transition is going to be longer then you would like and there is nothing you can do about it.
remind others that it will only get worse with time.
You can also offer Bob a bonus for staying until a certain date. 50K if you stay for the next two years and meets certain goals. 50k is a lot, but is it more then if you had to do the transition without him?
I hate to reward people who hoard information,. but from a practically business side, it may be the best decision.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
From my experiance "Bob" probably had to piece his system together from nothing, which is why he is the only one who knows how it works. I am pretty confident if the "board" authorized some resources for Bob to properly update his system, he would be more than happy to do so. I think I would be pretty pissed if I were Bob as well, if someone came along and said, oh you should do it this way, but we are not giving you any resourses to work with.
You know what my response would be? You want to start using Google Docs? Then start using them, you do it. Go ahead. Have fun. In the meantime when you fail, I'll keep this system running so we arn't completely fscked. If you want to do this properly, give me the funds, and I will build and migrate the entire system into a real modern document managment system, but guess what? It isn't free, and in fact it will be rather expensive. So make your decision and stop bitching.
you do realize that Google could just change their terms or retire their tools all together and poof all your documents are gone. No one cares about your data as much as you do and that is a lesson many learn the hard way.
Subject line says it all. This guy is going to leave one day and the poor schlub who comes in next is going to need serious PTSD therapy.
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
No, Bob is an asshole. I've worked with him and his ilk, and worked after them cleaning up the mess they left behind.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
> What is the core of the organization value? Maybe fixing an intern application is not worth it over losing one of its prominent members?
That is absolutely true. And given that, the solution is to live with the situation as-is. But if that is truly the situation, why are we trying to solve the guy's problem?
I get this from my wife all the time. (Background: She decided years ago that we keep our finances separate, and I have agreed to that.)
"My car's check engine light is on."
"Autozone will read the code for free."
"I don't have money to fix it."
"It might be simple, like a loose gas cap."
"But it might be expensive."
"True, but you won't know until you have it checked."
"But if it's expensive, I can't afford to fix it right now."
"But at least you'd know what the problem is, and again, it might be something simple."
"Well, I don't have time to go over there."
"It takes less than five minutes to do the check. And you drive right by it on the way to work."
"I don't like talking to them."
Sigh. "OK, enjoy your check engine light. Maybe it'll go off by itself."
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Vanderhot,
You're describing an exact issue/situation for which our company has designed a solution.
Our solution is a network appliance which, when plugged into your network, automatically searches for all documents in that network and stores them (in an encrypted format) for easy, instant search and instant access. Simple keyword(s), dates, numbers and et cetera will instantly show relevant document(s). It is both intuitive and extensible. New documents are automatically added to the database.
It allows secure access both within your network and remotely, all secure and encrypted, for sharing and collaboration. Further, if desired, we have the ability to provide secure, AES encrypted within your network to our remote backup facilities.
Perhaps most importantly, we DO NOT data mine client data. If fact, all of our solutions are encrypted (only your organization has the key) to specifically prevent data mining, digital theft, etc. Most providers, such as google docs, drop box, etc. do not provide a comparable level of protection that we do.
In your situation, you may find that Bob himself can use this as an valuable tool to "augment" his management of your system. One additional benefit of our appliance is its use as an auditing tool, to root out and find misfiled and duplicate files/documents.
Best of all, our appliance does not "require" maintenance. While we *strongly* suggest our clients take advantage of our 24/7 system monitoring, automated backups and automatic/free updates, the design of our system will allow for stand alone usage. As such, if Bob were to leave, our appliance can act as his automated digital secretary.
You may convince Bob that this "tool" will help both him in his role and your organization overall, but it also represents as business continuity tool hedging against nature as well human nature.
I invite you to further explore our offering. Visit clerk123.com and let us know if you would at least want our expertise on the topic.
Thank you in advance for your consideration.
Regards,
staff [at] Clerk123.com
Is to give them more control then even they demand. Because they don't want accountability they want power. Give them accountability then mercilessly pick at their failure to derive results until they either quit or change.
The use of THIS in the context above is sloppy, lazy, completely ambiguous, and a symptom of lack of effective mastery of vocabulary. For all practical purposes, it has no meaning (because it could have so many) so leave it out.
It's in the same vein as these sorts of conversations: ...then he goes...
Like, I go, and then he goes.
Like y'know, whatever!
It was like, totally random.
So I go,... and she goes,
THIS
I like totally went...NO WAY!
In other words, a sadly vocabulary-free, grammar-free way of communicating using a severely abridged form of the language.
Descriptions of situations need to be played out, using exact repetition of what was said mixed with a haze of of really
imprecise metaphors.
You will never be president if you speak "like" that.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Hugh Jackman HACKED INTO THE PENTAGON while he was "with" a hooker.
Don't tell me that some rinky-dink website would be harder.
Yeah, right.
I've been wondering why the board members warned Vanderhoth to approach the issue so sensitively. It may be that Bob has a history of bad reactions to his system, or not. It could be that ANOTHER board member is depending on the disorganization to keep some skeletons hidden. If no one will give you a straight or consistent answer; clang clang clang clang clang, get your ass out of that organization.
You have the choice of being direct, and finding out if this is an organization you want to waste any more of your time with, or pussyfoot around with the rest of them until the system comes crashing down. Pray this doesn't involve indictments.
If you feel you have Bob's respect, ask him point blank who he considers to be the second most capable person with his system. Ask him to make you the new 2nd, out of concern for his irreplaceability. Don't take no for an answer. If he rejects you, then he's an irrational fool, and the organization is foolish. Get out.
But first, bring a shiny new USB terabyte drive into the office and make a copy of the documents, even if it means losing the index. You can always run some scripts later to organize them by creation and access dates, author, and likely subject keywords. Peruse to your heart's content and see if you can dig up an explanation. If it seems simple enough (long shot), just stick it all into your own document management system, and look into automated daily imports of new and updated documents.
One day Bob will be unavailable at a critical time, and you can show everyone your spiffy new system. If they're not too afraid of offending Bob (seriously, what is this issue with everyone and Bob, if he's such a nice, respectable guy?), they'll take to your system like fish to water, and you can quietly shut Bob's server off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_bias
Casteism
Beware of this condition, it has destroyed companies! 8-|
New people always want to destroy what is there, because they don't understand it and others do. This puts them at a disadvantage. If something new is brought in, then everyone is on the same level, i.e., lost! They might not even realize they are doing this, themselves. It can be really bad when the new person is the new boss!
If possible, always make the new people learn the old system before changing anything. At the least, this will give them a better idea of how to successfully implement the new stuff.
Non profit means nobody gets paid? How important are those documents? Access to the system is owned by the board, not Bob. Find someone who can be trusted, lure him with the opportunity of doing some altruist job, allow him to research and understand how your system currently works and ask him to present a "sanated" version of it.
Erm... have you ever head of Mr Bush? I think he made quite a few mistakes far worse than the children of today, and unlike them, it's completely impossible to understand where he got his idioms and mistakes from.
"THIS" is a briefer form of "This is what I mean/am talking about/is correct" It is not phrased in reply to the previous post, but more toward a third party; The Internet.