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Project Orca: How an IT Disaster Destroyed Republicans' Get-Out-The-Vote Effort

cheesecake23 writes "Many talking heads have attributed Obama's success to an unmatched 'ground game.' Now, inside reports from campaign volunteers suggest that Project Orca, a Republican, tech-based voter monitoring effort with 37,000 volunteers in swing states, turned out to be an epic failure due to dismal IT. Problems ranged from state-wide incorrect PINs, to misleading and delayed information packets delivered to volunteers, to a server outage and missing redirection of secure URLs."

578 comments

  1. Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I guess this is what happens when your backward, anti-freedom police state party systematically alienates all the programmers and sysadmins and hackers, all the good techs and IT personnel who otherwise might have wanted to help you.

    Good riddance.

    1. Re:Serves them right by therealobsideus · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Actually I can see that. And I can personally attest to the amazing infrastructure the OFA campaign.

    2. Re:Serves them right by MaWeiTao · · Score: 1, Troll

      The Republicans probably outsourced IT management to India, but you're fool if you don't believe that Democrats aren't also going to give us a police state. The first four years of Obama's term should have already clued you in.

    3. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, because Obama didn't extend and expand the Patriot act or anything.
       
      I just love how the talking points of one party applies to the other with equal force but the big mouths from both parties try to act blameless.
       
      The loss of freedom in the US is a collaborative effort between the two parties but they play it off like it isn't. This keeps the one party system alive and keeps the citizens asleep.

    4. Re:Serves them right by TheRedSeven · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Yes, because Obama/his administration hasn't curtailed freedom at all through increased warrentless wiretapping of Americans, by giving retroactive immunity to telcos who aided in breaking the law, by fighting for punitive laws that would cripple the internet, by negotiating lousy treaties that would reduce freedom, by sending the FBI to foreign countries to seize property ...

      I'm with you. The Republicans of the past 12 years have not been supporters of technology or freedom by any means. But neither have the Democrats.

    5. Re:Serves them right by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's like the argument put forward by Neal Stephenson in Cryptonomicon - the Allies won WWII because they had the best technology, and the reason they had the best technology was because they were't the biggest assholes.

      http://markpasc.org/blog/gems/athena.html

    6. Re:Serves them right by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 0

      LMOL keep thinking that zippy...Republicans think the internet is a series of tubes....who do you really think supports technology.....

    7. Re:Serves them right by Desler · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Get your facts correct. The bill that gave the telcos immunity passed in July 2008 before Obama was elected. Though he did later defend that bill as president. This was after the House caved to Bush after previously passing a bill that would have not granted immunity..

    8. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1, Troll

      Good riddance.

      This place is not a lapdop to the Democratic party. I bet we have just as many Greens and Libertarians. What we don't have are a bunch of far rightwing Fascists that love to protect the 1%.

      Keep crying your tears are delicious.

    9. Re:Serves them right by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We can't help it. This stuff is just so hilarious. Instead of doing some honest soul searching and acknowledging the fact that the electorate has changed, the GOP wants to kid themselves with nonsense like this.

      A server crash is completely irrelevant to the fact that you are actively antagonizing anyone that isn't an old white male fundie.

      You run Communist style purges on your own top people and then are surprised when your "true conservatives" tend to be intolerable nutbags.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    10. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      LMOL keep thinking that zippy...Republicans think the internet is a series of tubes....who do you really think supports technology.....

      As ignorant as Republicans are of technology, describing the internet as a series of tubes was excellent. The metaphor accurately conveys how packets move through routers' FIFO queues during congestion. Links are so fast now that packets spend more time in routers moving through these metaphorical tubes than they do actually being carried on a wire or fiber.

      It's too bad the metaphor was offered by a Republican, otherwise it could have been a teaching tool rather than a joke.

    11. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Turing may have been gay, but I not sure I've read anything about the size of his a-hole :P

    12. Re:Serves them right by poity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This sort of counter-bigotry and counter-hatred is as trashy and needlessly spiteful as any the GOP side can muster. Post-election is a time for healing and a time to work towards unity. Slashdot hates the polarized atmosphere of US politics, yet here we are deepening that divide even in a time of victory. Democrats, as the victors, need to be magnanimous, not petty like this.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    13. Re:Serves them right by tylikcat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      1) One can certainly be anti-GOP without being pro-Democrat. I found Obama moderately more tolerable than Romney - which is really saying something considering how I feel about Obama. (Surveillance society? Authorizing assasination? Not even to get in to things like how TSA is basically being used for extra-judicial harrassment, which is certainly a bigger problem than just the Obama administration considering how the courts are punting on regulating TSA.)

      2) Adopting policies that are pro-science and pro-math might do a lot to win over the /. crowd. Pro-sex might help as well ;-)

    14. Re:Serves them right by Cwix · · Score: 0

      This green partier loves the tears of the Romnites. Tasty!

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    15. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is that anything like a lapdog

    16. Re:Serves them right by rubycodez · · Score: 1, Troll

      that's half of it.

      and the other half is that a backward, anti-freedom police state party full of mega-corporate bitches won.

      Past the hot button issues that give the illusion that people have a choice, Obama has done a *wonderful* job continuing the very worst of the Bush-Cheney agenda. what a liar, what a crook, what an empty suit. Even his vaunted "Health Care Bill" does nothing but further enrich big pharmy, big insurance, big healthcare chains.

    17. Re:Serves them right by Bob-taro · · Score: 5, Informative
      It reminds me of an interesting passage from "That Hideous Strength". I loved it, but it's by C.S.Lewis and is not-at-all-subtly Christian, which I'm sure would offend a lot of slashdot readers.

      “But I don’t see how one’s going to start a newspaper stunt without being political. Is it Left or Right papers that are going to print all this rot?”

      “Both, honey, both,” said Miss Hardcastle. “Don’t you understand anything? Isn’t it absolutely essential to keep a fierce Left and a fierce Right, both on their toes and terrified of the other? That’s how things get done. Any opposition to the N.I.C.E. is represented as a Left racket in the Right papers and a Right racket in the Left papers. If it’s properly done, you get each side outbidding the other in support of us–to refute the enemy slanders. Of course we’re non-political. The real power always is.”

      “I don’t believe you can do that,” said Mark. “Not with the papers that are read by educated people.”

      “Why you fool, it’s the educated reader that can be gulled. All our difficulty comes from the others. When did you meet a workman who believes in the papers? He takes it for granted that they’re all propaganda and skips the leading articles. He buys his paper for the football results and the little paragraphs about girls falling out of windows and corpses found in Mayfair Flats. He is our problem. We need to recondition him. But the educated public, the people who read the highbrow weeklies, don’t need reconditioning. They are all right already. They’ll believe anything.”

      I often think about especially that last bit when reading slashdot. Of course, later on in the story it says "Miss Hardcastle apparently overestimated the resistance of the working class to propaganda." (or something to that effect).

      --
      Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
    18. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is that what you are reduced to telling yourself?

      You are almost at derp level potato. Get over it, he lost fair and square. Hate, racism and tax cuts for the rich are not American values anymore.

    19. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Sorry, the laughing got in the way of my typing. I promise if slashdot had an edit function I would fix it.

    20. Re:Serves them right by fm6 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Can we get rid of the brainless AC posts already? They're all shoot-from-the-lip ignoramuses like this asshole.

      I'm an Obamatron, but I can't abide the Huffpost. So I learned about this fiasco from Newser, which linked a conservative web site which linked John Ekdahl's blog. John's a Romney volunteer, and his scathing description of Orca is informed by his day job as a web developer. And the there's Pudge, who helped design Slashdot, and who I presume voted for Romney, unless he considers him too liberal.

      So obviously there's no absence of IT talent on the right side of the aisle. What is missing is administrative judgment by Romney himself, who obviously bought some IT snakeoil from somebody, and has generally managed to find total clowns to run his campaign.

      People keep telling me about this brilliant guy named Mitt Romney who had a brilliant academic career (MBA and JD from Harvard), did well as a management consultant and equity capitalist, and accomplished great things as Governor of MA, even though the other party controlled the legislature. But I just don't see how that can be the same guy!

    21. Re:Serves them right by hardihoot · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I agree with you. Although I voted for Romney it was without any enthusiasm. Voting for Romney was as exciting as voting for a spreadsheet.

      Truth is, Obama has more charisma than Romney and a more engaging personality, at least it appears that way. When I would watch Romney his smile seemed forced much of the time and he had an exasperated look in his eyes which caused me to think he might not be able to handle the pressures of being president.

      I voted for him anyway, mainly in the hopes his blank-slate personality could be written on by the Tea Party conservatives who could mold him into a more conservative entity, guided by Ryan. I had the same mindset when I voted for McCain, hoping Palin's conservatism would steer the doddering McCain into a more conservative approach. Anyway, it is over. I am not bitter my candidate lost. Romney lost because he was a lame politician who never articulated any clear position only babbling platitudes. His voice sounded like some hack stubbing out cigarettes telling me whatever it is I wanted to hear. Romney did not seem all that genuine to me, just a moderate, wishy-washy Democrat wannabe. As someone who passed health care legislation in Massachoositz, few if any conservatives believed him when he said he would retract/modify Obamacare.

      So many of my Republican brethren stayed home and let Obama, like a vile case of diarrhea, run its course.

      My pick for pres. in 2016: Bobby Jindal. I think he can do it.

      --
      A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver --Proverbs 25:11
    22. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I am not democrat, did not vote for Obama either.

      Laughing about the end of these sorts of values is not hate, it is joy. Try not to cry yourself to sleep again. That was a joke by the way. In a few weeks you might even be able to laugh at it.

    23. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, more succinctly: "learn to take yes for an answer," and shut the fuck up about all the people who told you "no" before.

    24. Re:Serves them right by rubycodez · · Score: 4, Insightful

      bullshit, most Nazi technology e.g. aircraft was superior.

      now that subset known as "information technology" might be another matter....

    25. Re:Serves them right by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 2, Informative

      Republicans think the internet is a series of tubes...

      Ted Stevens has been dead a while, you can stop pissing on his corpse now.

    26. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You run Communist style purges on your own top people and then are surprised when your "true conservatives" tend to be intolerable nutbags.

      The source of these articles, http://ace.mu.nu/ , is one of those intolerant nutbags you speak of.
      Obviously that has nothing to do with this particular story, but I stopped going to his website because of how virulently hateful he was.
      And I don't mean vulgar, I mean hateful.

    27. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's really funny about that is statistics again go against you.

      Jon Stewart, who I do infrequently watch, has an audience far more educated than fox news or the talking radio heads.

      As Mr.Stewart would say keeping fucking that chicken.

    28. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GOP was not actively antagonistic to "anyone that isn't an old white male fundie." That isn't true at all.

      I've seen that said a lot though. It's like some big lie that people hope will come true if it's said enough.

      Let me tell you, 49% of the populace does not meet "old white male fundie" category. Hell, there was only a ten point difference between women who voted Republican and Democrat.

      There are problems with the Republican message and its outreach, I can't deny that. But I will deny lies and exaggerations like the one you advanced.

    29. Re:Serves them right by HarrySquatter · · Score: 1

      I didn't say he didn't support it and actually explicitly stated that he did. It is still wrong to claim it was Obama or his administration that granted the immunity since it was since it was pushed for and signed into law by Dubya after he got caught.

    30. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So the "War on Women" is not part of this?
      Care to remember all the Republican Rape statements made this election? Or their voice on the radio calling people sluts?

      Or the way they court the far christian and nationalist fringe?

      Only a 10 point difference? That is a fucking landslide compared to the average. What do you think the point difference was for others not in the old white fundie demograpic?

    31. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 0

      Let the butthurt flow through you.

      Actually no, calm down before you have a stroke. Such stress is not good for you.

    32. Re:Serves them right by Type44Q · · Score: 0

      Seriously, who's the gibbering mouth-breather who modded-down something [so self-evident]? :p

    33. Re:Serves them right by poity · · Score: 0

      I want to know how this post is off topic. Every time another country is in the negative spotlight here, Slashdotters jump at the chance bring up the US as a comparison, nearly always guaranteeing a +5 Insightful for a post which highlights the misdeeds of the US government for articles which never even mention the US. Parent poster has used the very same logic. Is Obama so sacred? Is the logic of bringing up the misdeeds of those who are "on our side" as a counterpoint no longer valid? Mods, and those who have used this type of argument before, let's hear your thoughts.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    34. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The charisma is why Obama got the Dumb Vote

    35. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Laughing at the rage of bigots and hate mongers is good for the country. That is healing the wounds they created. We cannot work towards unity with those who do not want it. They hate us, they curse us to their imagined hell and pray that their gods strike us down.

      I am no democrat, did not vote for Obama, but I sure am glad to see this country moving away from hate.

    36. Re:Serves them right by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      I loved it, but it's by C.S.Lewis and is not-at-all-subtly Christian, which I'm sure would offend a lot of slashdot readers.

      C.S. Lewis was a different sort of "Christian" than you're likely to find today; I think it's doing him a disservice to even use that word to describe him.

    37. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      If your are counting on more conservative you are guaranteed to lose. Romney shift to the center after the primaries is the only thing that gave him a chance. You desire for a fringe rightwing candidate is about as likely as my desire for the Greens to win.

      Mr.Jindal might have a chance if no volcanoes get in the way.

    38. Re:Serves them right by NatasRevol · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just yours.
      Top ten states by % of college graduates - all democrats
      Bottom ten states by % of college graduates - 9 were republican

      https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/266758023177981952/photo/1

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    39. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you're the uberman and the left vs right charade is a farce for all those dumb people. Clearly you have the clarity to see above all of it.

      Get the fuck over yourself.

      In reality the issue is "left" vs "batshit insanity". ONE side is the crazed, screaming, fear driven propagandists. ONE side is the polarizing force. ONE side. It's time become mature enough to realize that you're maxing excuses for the farce that was once known as "right"

    40. Re:Serves them right by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why is it the majority of 'Christians' vote for the guy who promises NOT to help those in need?

      Just doesn't make sense.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    41. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are just as poor winners as they were poor losers.

      Which make you have to wonder if they are are just plain old losers.

    42. Re:Serves them right by LordLucless · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because they believe that PEOPLE should help people in need, rather than rely on the government to take other people's money to do it for them?

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    43. Re:Serves them right by readin · · Score: 1

      So you're saying the Democrats alienated the good IT people and doing so kept them away from the Republicans. Either your logic or your premise is a little flawed.

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    44. Re:Serves them right by poity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But you can't deny that criticism of the Democratic party/policy/members is a more dangerous affair on Slashdot. One has to be very careful in wording such criticism, and it's often necessary to couch it in a general denunciation of the political right for it to ever be considered for upvoting. For those criticizing Republican party/policy/members the task is much easier, and petty name calling and broad generalizations of entire social groups by those posters are often overlooked. Now look at the moderation in this thread -- the off-topic and overrated votes have been given out with uncommon generosity.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    45. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or is it a laptop?

    46. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, so if you're not a Democrat, it's cool to Hate, then?

      Guess you're still out of step with "American values," you dumb cunt.

    47. Re:Serves them right by felipekk · · Score: 1, Insightful

      But then most of them don't do it. They *might* give their money to the church and then it just goes away...

    48. Re:Serves them right by rainmouse · · Score: 4, Informative

      I am not democrat, did not vote for Obama either.

      Laughing about the end of these sorts of values is not hate, it is joy. Try not to cry yourself to sleep again. That was a joke by the way. In a few weeks you might even be able to laugh at it.

      You don't need to fabricate things for them to be funny. Sometimes the truth is more hilarious
      http://www.inquisitr.com/241677/study-fox-news-viewers-less-informed-than-those-who-watch-no-news-at-all/

    49. Re:Serves them right by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yet they want the government to regulate how other people (gays/women) should live?

      Can't have it both ways.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    50. Re:Serves them right by Onuma · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm in a similar position, though I don't ever call myself a Republican, Democrat or any other affiliated party -- I just go with fiscal conservatism, military strength and a stern foreign policy.

      I foresaw the lack of good GOP candidates over a year and a half ago. Called it just like it went down; Romney got the (R) nod and lost in the end to the incumbent. Nothing really surprising at all. I believe Romney had the economic know-how to help get the economy back on track, and the desire to see an America not weakened by diluted foreign policy and appeasement of others. I don't believe it's too much to ask to have a government who doesn't stifle business and doesn't let other nations step all over us.

      The bottom line is that the GOP shot themselves in their collective feet. Obama ran a decent campaign, but Romney and the Republican Party showed just how behind-the-times they really are.

      --
      What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
    51. Re:Serves them right by readin · · Score: 0, Troll

      Because there is a difference between choosing to help others in need and choosing to force others to help other people in need. One is called charity and one is called slavery. Republicans are on the side of charity.

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    52. Re:Serves them right by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      Except they don't do that either. They just meddle in your private life and leave you to fend for yourself with the consequences.

      They simply aren't willing to "step up" once they've had their little power trip. They will try to suppress those that actually do.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    53. Re:Serves them right by Alomex · · Score: 4, Insightful

      one is called slavery

      It's called taxes which is actually a form of an insurance scheme. If you cannot criticize it without making false names for it, you must have no cogent reasons to attack it.

      Attacks like that rich on epithets and short on reasons is why the GOP keeps loosing the moderate middle. Sure, it drives up the ratings of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, but not the ratings of the people that would actually matter (Romney/Ryan) as shown last Tuesday.

    54. Re:Serves them right by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Informative

      Any actual statistics to back that up? Or are you just spinning what you think reality should be into "fact". Because when people actually try and measure it, it turns out they do, and you're wrong: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/12/who_gives_to_charity.html

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    55. Re:Serves them right by LordLucless · · Score: 2

      What are you talking about? Both parties want to have it both ways. Republicans want to regulate morality, and free money, and Democrats want to regulate money, and free morality.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    56. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      But.. why didn't they bring in experts in "Intelligent Design"?

    57. Re:Serves them right by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yet they want to force others to live on their principles - gays, abortion, drugs, etc.

      You can't have it both ways.

      And being forced to help someone isn't nearly as bad as forcing someone else to not choose their own lifestyle.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    58. Re:Serves them right by k6mfw · · Score: 2

      Post-election is a time for healing and a time to work towards unity.

      Reminds me of the Star Trek TOS on the planet where everyone emulates early 20th century gangsters. Kirk says they should stop fighting each other and work towards unity. Mob boss says, "I agree but I gotta be the unity!" Fact follows fiction is what we have today.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    59. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      The GOP was not actively antagonistic to "anyone that isn't an old white male fundie." That isn't true at all.

      I've seen that said a lot though. It's like some big lie that people hope will come true if it's said enough.

      Some of us actually paid attention to the entire GOP nomination process from start to finish. The candidates clearly pursued racist, sexist primary voters all along, barely concealing it at all. After Romney won, the racist and sexist rhetoric shifted to a more subdued, dogwhistle form, calculated to be enough to get the bigots to turn out for the general election while letting mainstream GOP supporters (like yourself) fool themselves into not noticing the elephant in the room.

      Let me tell you, 49% of the populace does not meet "old white male fundie" category. Hell, there was only a ten point difference between women who voted Republican and Democrat.

      49% equals a "base" of bigots (who are in fact largely white fundies) plus others who have been fooled. Like you.

      A 10 point difference among women voters is an enormous gap in American general elections, by the way...

      There are problems with the Republican message and its outreach, I can't deny that. But I will deny lies and exaggerations like the one you advanced.

      Of course you'll deny it, but not because it's a pack of lies. Rather, because you're living in a state of denial.

    60. Re:Serves them right by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you actually believe that Republicans want to free money - whatever you mean by that?

      This is what both parties actually do:
      R - tax cuts, spend more on military
      D - tax increases, spend more on people

      Tax and spend is a much better fiscal policy than tax cut and spend. The excess spending on both sides is completely ridiculous. If I had to choose one though, I'd prefer the spending be done on the American people rather than the policing of the world.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    61. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      a lot of us christians share the same faith as Lewis, and don't like the "right wing by default" thing . As for the "Christian" title, I think Lewis would have called himself that at any age of history. I won't stop calling myself a christian because of what others do or say. The problem is theirs, its up to the hypocrite to repent or to renounce the faith. Worship of God, love, compassion, humbleness, those things are as much needed and out of fashion today as when Jesus walked the earth.

    62. Re:Serves them right by LordLucless · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You have it right there in your post - tax cuts vs tax increases. Ideologically, Republicans are for lower taxes, thus, less control of government over an individuals money. Of course, both parties have drifted pretty far from their ideological roots, and the Republicans are cutting taxes to please one group, while spending more to please others. Doesn't matter to many voters though, because they've self-identified as D or R, and the actual actions of those parties don't mean diddly.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    63. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bullshit, most Nazi technology e.g. aircraft was superior.

      now that subset known as "information technology" might be another matter....

      I agree, Nazi tech was decidedly superior - where they fell flat was in going in some ways in "too many" directions with it, no prioritizing things like the V2 and jet aircraft until it was too late, etc. Bad resource allocation, and perhaps too much 'cockiness' in their 'superiority' (and that of their tech) was more their downfall.

    64. Re:Serves them right by blueturffan · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, if any Republican said/did/thought something at any time, the same belief/action/thought must apply to all Republicans in perpetuity.

      It's a /. thing - like hot grits or first posts, but a lot more annoying.

    65. Re:Serves them right by McGruber · · Score: 2

      I guess this is what happens when your backward, anti-freedom police state party systematically alienates all the programmers and sysadmins and hackers, all the good techs and IT personnel who otherwise might have wanted to help you.

      It probably didn't help that the Republicans consider Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman to be successful at IT.

    66. Re:Serves them right by strength_of_10_men · · Score: 4, Funny

      To paraphrase a Fox News anchor:

      Are these the facts that you cite as a Republican to make yourself feel better or is this real?

    67. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Romney was wildly ignorant on foreign policy. Easily the worst canidate with regards to foreign policy I've seen in my lifetime. From your comments I see you also share that ignorance

    68. Re:Serves them right by NatasRevol · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ideologically, Republicans are for lower taxes, thus, less control of government over an individuals money.

      Not any Republicans in my life time. And I remember Reagan getting elected. And tripling the national debt with military spending.

      I think you're thinking of fiscally conservative Republicans. But those don't exist any more. Literally, they've all died off it was so long ago.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    69. Re:Serves them right by Maow · · Score: 4, Funny

      Seriously, this place has turned into such a lapdog to the Democratic Party that I can't stand to read it anymore.

      Mod me down. I don't give a fuck. This is my last slashdot post.

      And the quality of Slashdot just went up.

    70. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The huge difference is that Obama hasn't been hoisted by his own pitard. Obama might be evil, but he hasn't alienated enough people that he ends up being a loser. Some people still like Obama. OTOH everyone who knows jack shit about anything, hates Republicans.

    71. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes and no. The Nazis had superior technical designs in many instances, and questioning their engineering skills would just be stupid. Yet thankfully they lost, in no small part because these things consumed resources they should've been using elsewhere.

      It's not just about being brilliant, albeit in a twisted way: you have to execute in such a way that your superior tech matters. If the enemy has slightly worse designs but better manufacturing, ability to turn out numbers, better field servicing and greater reliability with an equally intelligent and motivated military, you're in trouble because you have to be perfect all the time and they don't.

      For a good story about this, dig up Arthur C. Clarke's ironic short story "Superiority". It's a good read.

    72. Re:Serves them right by Onuma · · Score: 0

      I didn't say he knew all the foreign policy answers, but even his ignorance is better than Obama apologizing for everything. One can learn to not be ignorant...it's a far more difficult task to unlearn appeasement and unnecessary apologies.

      --
      What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
    73. Re:Serves them right by misexistentialist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Government funding is allocated for political or bureaucratic reasons, not need.

    74. Re:Serves them right by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Which is why I prefixed it with "ideologically". It's still the thing the Republican party says it stands for - especially in the minds of its long-term voters - even though its actions have pretty much made a mockery of it. But then, the Democrats actions haven't really reflected their ideology (well, their post-slavery ideology) lately either - drone strikes and kill lists, absue of due process, expansion of the TSA, etc.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    75. Re:Serves them right by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      We cannot work towards unity with those who do not want it. They hate us, they curse us to their imagined hell and pray that their gods strike us down.

      Is that from Mein Kampf?

    76. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But then most of them don't do it. They *might* give their money to the church and then it just goes away...

      Wrong. In his book, Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservativism (Basic Books, 2006), Brooks discovered that approximately equal percentages of liberals and conservatives give to private charitable causes. However, conservatives gave about 30 percent more money per year to private charitable causes, even though his study found liberal families earned an average of 6 percent more per year in income than did conservative families. This greater generosity among conservative families proved to be true in Brooks’ research for every income group, “from poor to middle class to rich.” . . . A clue may be found in the 1996 General Social Survey, which asked Americans whether they agreed that “the government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality.” People who “disagreed strongly” with that statement gave 12 times more money to charity per year than those who “agreed strongly” with the statement. See http://blog.beliefnet.com/castingstones/2008/04/conservatives-give-more-to-cha.html

    77. Re:Serves them right by GiganticLyingMouth · · Score: 2

      It's obvious why your Kama is only 1. You must post inane shit all the time.

      says the AC...

    78. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, calling half the country bigots like Carter did is definiatly the way to unify the country.

      Sorry, the Democrats are the most intollerant bunch of hate spewing idiots there is. During the election I learned that Romney is a felon, killed a woman with cancer, and hasn't paid taxes for over 10 years. All those claims were from the Obama campaign itself and all were proven wrong. From the Romney campaign, Obama is a nice guy but just has bad policies.

      Funny how the truth just never lines up with DNC talking points.

    79. Re:Serves them right by couchslug · · Score: 5, Insightful

      3) Not persecuting cannabis users even more than the GOP would be nice too.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    80. Re:Serves them right by tylikcat · · Score: 2

      I was rather hoping the Democrats were going to give being the party of fiscal responsibility a try, as the Republicans had surely left it up for grabs. (That being said, if you were dumb enough to cut taxes when times were good, there still is probably a point in deficit spending when the economy is this bad because cutting spending and pushing it back into recession is... well, to borrow a phrase, how you become Greece.)

    81. Re:Serves them right by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      Well, I'm saying I disagree with you.

      How can the Republican party 'stand for' those things when they don't do it, at all, ever in the last 40 years?

      It's a sales point, not an actual platform. Hence, they don't actually stand for it.

      But yes, the Democrats are now becoming militarized too. I think they're getting addicted to the kickbacks, too.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    82. Re:Serves them right by couchslug · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Bullshit. The Republican base are still as dedicated to vengeance and pursuit of theocracy as ever, and still control the House so they can and will still stonewall progress.

      The polarization of US is no accident. One cannot sit idly by waiting for ENEMIES to have a group hug. The US is too large to be one country, and as nature takes its course regionalism and the desire for self-determination rear their heads again. (The US has helped break up far smaller countries under UN auspices, but enforces Federal unity at gunpoint.)

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    83. Re:Serves them right by readin · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Let's see gays - that's one I'll have to give you. The gay marriage thing is debatable, but too many Republicans would even outlaw gay relationships if it weren't for the recent, and baseless, supreme court decision.

      drugs - that's just like the Democrats. Both parties support laws against drug use and both parties have made it clear that when they're in charge of the national government they won't look the other way when states legalize drug use.

      abortion - right to life trumps other rights. You can't kill someone just because they're inconvenient.

      hiring - the Democrats tell you who you have to work with.

      hiring - the Democrate tell you how much you have to pay and in general what you and another person can agree to.

      renting - the Democrats tell you what you can and can't do with your property, and what restrictions you can put on who enters your property

      running a restaurant - the Democrats tell you whether you can smoke and Bloomberg (Democrat who switched parties but not stripes so he could run) even wants to tell you how big your drinks can be.

      racism - the Democrats forbid people from rejecting racism. Either hire based on race (and do school admissions based on race) or face the wrath of Democrats

      heath care - the Democrats tell you what kinds of health care you need to pay for

      money - the Democrats take your money so they choose how it is spent

      money - the Democrats take your children's money (though Republicans at times have joined them in doing so) so they can decide how your children's future earnings will be spent today.



      The only freedom Democrats seem to respect is sexual freedom. To them all other freedom's are subject to government whim. And on sexual freedom they are so extreme that they work to remove the responsibility that should come with all freedoms and instead have everyone pay for it whether or not they participate, or even approve of it.

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    84. Re:Serves them right by Daetrin · · Score: 5, Funny
      As someone said on twitter:

      "The Rape guy lost" "Which one?" Your party has serious issues if people have to ask "Which one?"

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    85. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please stop drinking.

      If you think that the Republicans wouldn't be fine with at LEAST half of that, you're completely deluding yourself. Or watching WAAAAAYYYY too much Fox News.

    86. Re:Serves them right by Snotnose · · Score: 1

      So you're saying Obama is better than Bush was at respecting privacy, civil rights, and not murdering foreign citizens overseas?

      Hell, the guy can't even close gitmo.

      Face it, when it comes to the growing police state both Elephants and asses are wrong.

      My problem is I'm a fiscal conservative but social liberal. Up to now my preference for low taxes/small gov'ment and gun rights has overshadowed the Repub asshattery. But I can't overlook said asshattery anymore, not to mention the ass party grows the gov'ment as much if not more than the dems.

    87. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Indeed. If the war had depended mostly on technology, Germany would have won. They pioneered coordinated troop/tank/air assaults, pioneered use of submarines, had by a vast margin the best aircraft and missile technology, and for large portions of the war had by far the best tanks, submarines, and guns (the 88). They also had radar and very capable radar-equipped night fighters.

      The allies did not have and did not win because of the best technology overall. They won because Germany made some strategic blunders in knocking out the Soviet Union and because the Soviet Union then was eventually able to overwhelm Germany with numbers of everything. Only about 20% of WWII in Europe involved the US and UK (as measured by number of combatants, number of casualties, number of tanks or guns, or amount of territory involved). Now, if the war had lasted long enough for the US to use atomic bombs against Germany, that technology advantage could have ended up being the determining factor.

    88. Re:Serves them right by strength_of_10_men · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Interesting.

      However, the NYTimes exit polling gives a more nuanced version of this. For those with college degrees, a majority voted for Romney. For those with Post Grad degrees, Obama was the overwhelming choice.

      Source (scroll down to "Education"

    89. Re:Serves them right by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Wow. I was expecting to find the "you guyz stupid" comment much further down. Congrats on the tolerant first post AC, BTW.

    90. Re:Serves them right by dodobh · · Score: 1

      Does the book also cover absolute numbers, and percentages of income and wealth?

      --
      I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
    91. Re:Serves them right by eqisow · · Score: 1

      It turns out governments are made up of people. Specifically, people you elect to represent you and do your will. For example, social program that help the poor.

    92. Re:Serves them right by glassware · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who do you think the Government is? A magical socialist fairy entity?

      The government is the people. The government is us. The government is the most effective way to help people that has ever existed.

      What you are saying is "We'll rely on the crumbs that fall from a wealthy person's plate to feed the poor."

      It doesn't work.

    93. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If God had wanted the Republicans to win this election, He would have provided them with an honest candidate.

      Not one who shakes his Etch-A-Sketch every time he addresses a different constituency.

    94. Re:Serves them right by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it kinda is. Check the recent survey. Democrats outweigh everyone, but the greens/libertarians represent more than the general population. Which is kinda what it felt like already.
      Seriously, I know it's fun to poke at the other "side" or make them out to be the Anti-Christ, but it really doesn't get anything accomplished.

    95. Re:Serves them right by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The Germans had some really great technology and science, they were more advanced than the allies in many areas.

      Other factors come in to play though:
      - computing was very early stage of development and a few key individuals made some big leaps.
      - sabotage of Norwegian heavy water sources slowed Germany's nuclear projects
      - US was a strong ally with an intact domestice infrastructure far away from front lines and air raids

    96. Re:Serves them right by Medievalist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And yet the Democrats also keep on spewing the hate against anybody who dares to disagree with them or challenge their plans. Imagine that.

      When, exactly, did the self-proclaimed liberal Democrat gunman come into your church and try to murder your children? Because that's the bar for hate your team has set. Your people - particularly Ann Coulter - called for violence and hate and Jim David Adkisson answered that call.

      I have to say I'm in awe of the of the Knoxville Unitarian Universalists, though. If that had happened in my church I would not have let that man leave the building alive... maybe that's because I'm a registered Republican? The Knoxville UUs held the man for police, and although several of them sacrificed their lives to protect their fellow Americans, nobody there took revenge.

    97. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Apples and oranges. The NY Times data only shows swing states.

    98. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Insurance is voluntary. What you are describing is theft at gunpoint. See the difference? State Farm never got a client by threatening to throw them in jail and have the IRS seize everything they own.

    99. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, and how does that work out for us? How has that ever worked out for us? The primary reason we've had a robust middle class for most of the first time in the last century is that the entire population's quality of living has improved because the less fortunate are not a burden on individuals, or when the chips are down families aren't driven into the street.

      Republicans want to believe everyone has a wealthy benefactor or that churches can solve all the needies' problems, BUT THAT'S NEVER BEEN TRUE.

    100. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      More bitching, moaning, and whining. Hop on that BMW and ride it out of town.

      The Republican Party has become the party of old, white, angry men. No young people: they went with Obama. No minorities. Not many women. And campaign money mostly spent on hate advertising. As a political party, it is a morally and ethically bankrupt institution, and completely out of touch with every significant constiuency in the USA.

    101. Re:Serves them right by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Dude, I'm sorry, but my parents had their bumper kicked in and shit poured all over their car for driving around with a Romney bumper sticker four weeks before the election. Two old 70 year old non "fundie" people with bad knees in a 2001 Honda accord. So should I assume that all Obama fans are just hateful violent dicks, or assume that they just happened upon the jerkiest of the group? Or how one of my staunch democratic friends said "well, maybe it was the bumper sticker, they shouldn't have had that", like it's acceptable?

    102. Re:Serves them right by Medievalist · · Score: 2

      Wait, you're still mad at Jimmy Carter?

      Get a slashdot ID, you're fun to have around. Seriously.

    103. Re:Serves them right by LordLucless · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The government isn't a magical socialist fairy. But it's not "the people" or "us" either. The government is a collection of individuals who have leveraged their connections, and often their pre-existing wealth to get into a position where they control all the lawyers, and all the guns.

      No, what I'm saying is stop perpetuating the poor as a class by latching them firmly onto the assistance teat, and work at integrating them into society as contributing members. What you're saying is we'll rob from the rich to feed the poor - where "rich" is anyone richer than me.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    104. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You funny! You make Fox News comment! You know, spelling it "Faux" would have been balls to the wall heeelariouser!

    105. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so angry from someone with such a polarized worldview. I bet you have absolutely no doubts whatsoever as to the correctness of your beliefs.

    106. Re:Serves them right by Fallingcow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I didn't say he knew all the foreign policy answers, but even his ignorance is better than Obama apologizing for everything

      I liked when we apologized the living fuck out of Libya.

      Bin Laden didn't even acknowledge Obama's apology to him. What a dick.

      We're apologizing all over Iran's economy right now. Fun!

      I'd be shocked if we're not doing some serious apologizing to Syria via proxies. Gotta be careful on that one, or we might end up apologizing to the Russians.

      Of all the weird propaganda to come out of the last four years, the idea that this president has been insufficiently assertive on the international stage is easily among the strangest and most terrifying.

    107. Re:Serves them right by DragonTHC · · Score: 1

      They lost me at republican and IT.

      What do truckers and housewives know about computers?

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    108. Re:Serves them right by dbIII · · Score: 2

      I've been getting the very strong impression for about a year now that the "close race" has been mostly a fabrication of the media that wanted some sort of excitement attached to the election.
      When most of the criticism can be paraphrased as "he didn't fix all of Bush's mistakes in four years" they are not trying hard enough to present themselves as an alternative to the current Government and could do nothing other than fail.

    109. Re:Serves them right by the_other_chewey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because they believe that PEOPLE should help people in need, rather than rely on the government to take other people's money to do it for them?

      Governments are (made of) people, my friend.

    110. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The V2 missiles never worked right and killed more Germans than British. The problem didn't get to the point of technology, they took on way more than they could handle. Had the Nazis not tried to take Stalingrad when they did, or had the sense to wait before attacking the USSR until they had rebuilt and fortified, who knows what would have happened. But, it certainly would have taken longer, even if they did eventually lose the war.

    111. Re:Serves them right by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Fine, people should help people in need with their own money, rather than using their government positions to take other people's money to do it for them.

      Is that better, mr. nitpicker?

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    112. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fix your damned GOP and quit trying so hard to put the blame for your failings on those GD liberals.

      It is you conservatives who have fucked up and given control of your party to other-worldly evangelists and believers in fantasy economics. Where are the hard headed conservatives who should be running the show? How did Rush Limbaugh become the more powerful spokesman for the GOP than George Wills?

      Sir, you are a dumbass who needs to wipe his own butt instead of blaming all the shit that has been spread around on those who are trying to clean up the biggest mess since before World War II.

    113. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally missing the point.

      He's not limiting freedom of religion, you can still practice as you did before and nothing he's proposing is going to prevent you from freely practicing in the future. OTOH, he is limiting your freedom to be a jack ass douch that forces his beliefs onto other people. That's never been a freedom that was intended for people to have. My right to swing my fist, ends at your nose.

      And Mitt Romney wasn't one of us, he made his money by tearing down the US and selling it off to foreign nationals. And revenge is perfectly fine in this case, it's the only currency that the GOP understands. It's not particularly high brow, but you guys have spent years bitching about how elitist he is. What's more, the GOP did deliberately try to burn down the economy even further over the last 4 years. Thankfully, they failed, but they did succeed in keeping people out of work for longer.

    114. Re:Serves them right by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Because they believe that PEOPLE should help people in need, rather than rely on the government to take other people's money to do it for them?

      So why then vote for the bunch that would not let people help people in need and turned back all the volunteers going into New Orleans? You really are misrepresenting what the faction that took over the Republican party stand for. They are the merchants in the temple at best and the guys that drove the nails in at worst. How's that for putting it in "Christian" terms.

    115. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      really? Initially, yes. But they couldn't keep up, technologically or numbers-wise.

      Yes, they had a couple nice tricks up their sleeves (Me-262).

    116. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. We learned that Romney MAY be a felon, MAY NOT have paid taxes for over 10 years and Romney never did release the tax documents that Obama and everybody else have released when running for President. Romney could have proven that it wasn't the case, assuming it wasn't, however he chose not to release the documents.

      And no, they weren't proven wrong. Romney never bothered to produce the standard documentation. I don't recall the cancer thing though.

      Of course the truth never lines up with DNC talking points, we're still losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month, the climate is actually getting colder and the GOP isn't trying to force women to carry babies they don't want to term. Oh, wait, so, when are you going to get more of that medication for the delusions?

    117. Re:Serves them right by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      that late development by the nazi rocket scientists in the V2 program, the Saturn V, got us to the moon

    118. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The book, IIRC, makes no effort to normalize for cost of living. So a family of 4 making $40k in San Francisco is counted the same as one from South Dakota who also makes $40k, despite the fact that the cost of living in South Dakota is pretty much the lowest in the US and the cost of living in San Francisco is higher than average. And they allow people to count tithing as donations, even though that's essentially a fee for services that they're using and there's not much choice generally given.

    119. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And one wonders when did the Democratic party become economically conservative and why is the Republican party economically liberal?

    120. Re:Serves them right by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      You have it right there in your post - tax cuts vs tax increases. Ideologically, Republicans are for lower taxes....

      No, the Republicans were in favor of "tax cuts" and spending more on the military, but not spending more because they would make that back through closing "loopholes" to make it up, so actually, they would end up raising taxes to certain people (but never said what loopholes) and overall to make up that other $200 million a year. Over all, the Economist had this to say about his whole economic plan: "For all his businesslike intentions, Mr Romney has an economic plan that works only if you don’t believe most of what he says." and while they didn't like it, they had to back Obama.

    121. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not all republicans are social conservative asshats. Just like not all Democrats are smug, self-satisfied assholes with little self control.

    122. Re:Serves them right by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why is it wrong to hate someone who supports discrimination and racial/socioeconomic hate?

    123. Re:Serves them right by poity · · Score: 1

      Read your post and see all the "they" sentences. In your mind, every person connected with the GOP is the same. It is the same rationale that underlies all bigotry. It's obvious you are not a Democrat, as I don't believe any reasonable Democrat would want you as a fellow member.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    124. Re:Serves them right by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Brooks discovered that approximately equal percentages of liberals and conservatives give to private charitable causes. However, conservatives gave about 30 percent more money per year to private charitable causes, even though his study found liberal families earned an average of 6 percent more per year in income than did conservative families.

      This is another one of those things I call a "true lie" - it is a shallow literal truth that is used to obscure a more meaningful truth.

      It is literally true that conservatives give more to charity than liberals. But it is a lie to say that means conservatives are more charitable. That is because the entire difference in charitable giving is accounted for by religious donations. When you take those out of the equation, both groups give roughly the same amount of money.

      When religious giving isn't counted, the geography of giving is very different. Some states in the Northeast would jump into the top 10 when secular gifts alone are counted. New York would vault from No. 18 to No. 2 in the rankings, and Pennsylvania would climb from No. 40 to No. 4.

      --The Chronical of Philanthropy

      The problem with religious charity, aka tithing, is that it is not truly charitable. It is about giving money to something that benefits the giver whereas true charity is altruistic with no expectation of benefit to the giver. Religious donations are charity as defined by the IRS but are not charity as defined by common usage of the term.

      In extreme cases the money can be "laundered" such that it counts as an IRS charitable deduction but then is used for something that is not deductible. One such example is the way the Knights of Columbus -- a religious charity affiliated with the catholic church -- spent $1.9M between 2008 and 2009 to fight same-sex marriage laws in Washington State. If a secular person wanted to donate money to a group like the Human Rights Campaign who advocate for gay marraige, it would not be considered charity.

      Same thing with the way Mormons are expected to pay a 10% tithe to the Mormon Church. But the Church turned around and spent $22 million of that to defeat the pro-gay-marraige Prop 8 in california.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    125. Re:Serves them right by fm6 · · Score: 2

      Not fair that you called a troll, but surely being taxed for things you don't want isn't slavery. I don't feel enslaved by W just because he spent $4 trillion on the stupidest war in human history.

      And you're taking a simple-minded view of the whole help those in need thing. Poverty, hunger, disease are all bad things in themselves, but that's not the only reason to spend tax money on them. They happen to be things we can't ignore. They screw things up for all of us. The economy is less resilient, because there fewer consumers. Bad things like disease don't always confine themselves to the bad part of town.. And worst of all, people with sucky lives tend to become criminals. You can hire more cops, but really, the most cost-effective way to cut crime is to make people's lives suck less.

    126. Re:Serves them right by poity · · Score: 1

      So how do you want to proceed? Butt heads forever, or find avenues of progress with moderates in their camp? Look at how hardliners on the right want to deal with Iran. Now, look at how you want to deal with Republicans. If the Democratic administration can reach out to moderates in adversarial countries, then so too can they reach out to moderates in adversarial political parties.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    127. Re:Serves them right by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      So the take-away on this is that charities should be outlawed since they put a heavier burden on the conservatives who as a group have lower incomes, and taxes with government disbursements should be used instead, since this more fairly distributes the burden across the higher income liberals as well as the conservatives.

      Yeah, that makes sense. At least it makes sense in being a reasonable inference from the stipulated findings of Mr Brooks.

      But somehow I doubt that is the conclusion that the poster and Mr Brooks draw from those same findings.

      --
      Will
    128. Re:Serves them right by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      Republicans have also killed of the wing that governs.

    129. Re:Serves them right by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      what? so you are now saying that all the chest thumping Republicans do is just for show?

    130. Re:Serves them right by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      Not really....and anyone who says that has never been a slave.

      If you think you are a slave, leave the country and see if anyone here tries to stop you.

      We have legal precedence since the 1790's and a constitutional amendment that says the congress can tax pretty much anything it wants...The constitution also allows that same congress to decide how it spends those taxes...in the case of modern era America, it spends in on military, and social programs (that includes corporate welfare). you must have been mistaken in your understanding of the government you and your ancestors were born under.

    131. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's like the argument put forward by Neal Stephenson in Cryptonomicon - the Allies won WWII because they had the best technology, and the reason they had the best technology was because they were't the biggest assholes.

      bullshit, most Nazi technology e.g. aircraft was superior.

      now that subset known as "information technology" might be another matter....

      Actually, the Germans quite frequently had superior aircraft designs offered, and used inferior designs because their government did not like the designers of the superior ones.

    132. Re:Serves them right by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 2

      and are reasons why the smart ones who know how to govern (Huntsman) are never selected to run.

    133. Re:Serves them right by lightknight · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Their conjecture has been proven wrong, if history is anything to go by. A society made up of many non-uniform parts can prevail over a society that is made up of relatively uniform parts. It's fascinating, as it seems to undermine the earlier precedent set by the Spartans, who, with their relentless focus on a uniform society, managed to clobber Athens, a somewhat less uniform society.

       

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    134. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess this is what happens when your backward, anti-freedom police state party systematically alienates all the programmers and sysadmins and hackers, all the good techs and IT personnel who otherwise might have wanted to help you.

      Good riddance.

      Well maybe - just maybe their IT techs were IRL Democrats :)

    135. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you can't deny that criticism of the Democratic party/policy/members is a more dangerous affair on Slashdot.

      you are using the word "dangerous" in an odd context. Even the most rabid Democrat on Slashdot lacks the ability to reach through the screen and strangle you. You may have meant "disapproved of", or "likely to be condemned." Possibly even "harshly moderated".

    136. Re:Serves them right by Onuma · · Score: 1

      We didn't apologize for inciting violence in Benghazi, but we did apologize for one person exercising his first amendment rights to make a [horribly produced] video which supposedly caused such attacks -- then we backpedaled and said it was a terrorist attack. Don't forget that we allowed an American Ambassador and 3 others to be killed without taking any action, because when 2 military General Officers tried to act in the defense of our people they were relieved of command. How's that for "strong foreign policy"?

      --
      What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
    137. Re:Serves them right by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      they are not legally "someone" until they are viable outside the mother.

      want to outlaw Abortion? based on current SCOTUS rulings, just find a way to create an artificial womb and you have outlawed abortion.

    138. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, I called a few churches to help my mentally disabled brother-in-was after he was laid off from his 25 year Nevada casino kitchen job and the state cut off his unemployment and foodstamp benefits. Crickets, He got evicted from his single-wide in the desert and is living in an abandoned trailer with no heat or power in Goodsprings NV.. I would help, but I lost my job in January and all other relatives have passed. Count on the church? Fuck you!

    139. Re:Serves them right by emaname · · Score: 1

      They get caught up in the Pro-Life stance. I have friends and family members who focus ONLY on that. They can't (or won't) accept that the Right Wing extremists are not actually Pro Life. They have NO problem sending our youth to war to die for a lie. Nor do they have a problem contributing to and maintaining economic conditions that condemn so many people to live and ultimately die in poverty. Nor do they care if some greedy corporatists gamble with the money of others and lose causing those folks to lose their retirement funds and consequently being unable to afford their homes or healthcare.

      Anyhow being Pro Choice doesn't mean you agree with abortion. It means you want to allow people to have the freedom to choose even though you personally might not approve of abortion.

      --
      An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
    140. Re:Serves them right by lightknight · · Score: 1

      Indeed, the Nazis did, for a time, enjoy technological superiority. However, they had two things working against them.

      1.) Hubris -> from what I understand, their scientists made mistakes, and possibly due to political infiltration, this made it impossible to back-track and fix certain things. If you are a society where some mistakes cannot be repaired because being seen to have made a mistake may impact your lifespan....you're ultimately screwed. Even the best of scientists will make mistakes, and frequently a lot of them. Having to worry about them, or dedicate time to hiding them / playing damage control takes time away from other things.
      2.) Stupidity -> their little fear campaign worked wonders for solidifying their power-base across Germany, but it also scared some of the top scientific talent right into the Allies hands. Scaring Einstein into the US's hands was, without a doubt, one of the absolute dumbest things the Nazis could have done. It gets better: supposedly there was an effort to cleanse the sciences of all influences from lesser races. So, German scientists had to spend time, if this bit of history is correct, re-deriving various common parts because the language or ideas surrounding them were dreamt up by 'lesser beings.' Apparently, the political leadership did not like some of the symbols used in common descriptions of things in the sciences; in essence, it would be the equivalent of asking mathematicians to re-derive the concepts behind algebra because the word behind the practices themselves come from the Middle East. That level of stupidity, once it achieves critical mass, acts as a poison.

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    141. Re:Serves them right by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Moderates in the Republican camp became Democrats a long time ago. What we need to do, and what I think is likely is that the Democratic party will split into two groups: one liberal, and one moderate conservative (the latter dominates the party right now â" Obama is very conservative). Meanwhile, unless our systems of elections are radically changed nationwide, there will be no room for a third party, and the hardcore conservatives who currently dominate the Republican party â" the theocrats, the bigots, the plutocrats, etc. â" will get totally marginalized and have no effective voice in politics. Eventually, sadly, someone in the conservative camp will eventually try to enlist some of them to help win an election, ignoring the lesson that the Republicans have taught us between 1964 and today: that they're basically cancerous and will destroy from the inside anyone who allows them in.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    142. Re:Serves them right by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Stay the course until demographics and public demand further weaken the GOP, whose style can only get more adversarial.

      The Dems DO NOT "butt heads" which is why the GOP blocking strategy has succeeded in pushing them so far to the right.

      The GOP/Christian Taliban are locked hopelessly into their current state, and that's actually an advantage because they have NOWHERE to go but further Right. Good. The GOP is now an evil Superstitionist party and should be encouraged to damage itself in these ways which it is institutionally unable to consider as damage!

      Let the GOP wallow in their bigoted mindset until they choke on the blowback they so relentlessly provoke.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    143. Re:Serves them right by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Eventually, sadly, someone in the conservative camp will eventually try to enlist some of them to help win an election, ignoring the lesson that the Republicans have taught us between 1964 and today: that they're basically cancerous and will destroy from the inside anyone who allows them in."

      That's hardly "sad". US conservatives sold their souls to the Santorums of the Christian Taliban base long ago in exchange for being used as window dressing now and then. Any who didn't jump ship deserve what they get.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    144. Re:Serves them right by blade8086 · · Score: 1

      Here's my pro sex policy:

      Go !@#$ yourself.

      wocka

    145. Re:Serves them right by approachingZero+ · · Score: 1

      Yes! God help anyone who doesn't bow at the alter of hipster political correctness. All the great things worth having are the result of capitalism and greed. Taking shit from people and giving it to others in the name of fairness can only end in the collapse of this civilization, but how hip is it to admit that?

      --
      'I don't know what it's called. I just know the sound it makes, when it takes a man's life.' ~ Four Leaf Tayback
    146. Re:Serves them right by approachingZero+ · · Score: 0

      You bet. You rejoice in driving the heretic away. Very copasetic.

      --
      'I don't know what it's called. I just know the sound it makes, when it takes a man's life.' ~ Four Leaf Tayback
    147. Re:Serves them right by blade8086 · · Score: 2

      The majority of christians dont - there are christians all over the board.

      Many Catholics (one of the largest voting blocks in the country) for example tend to vote democrat (see also Kennedys, Hispanic Americans, etc)

      As for the so-called 'religious right' - aka 'moral conservitives' - they vote for this because:

      a) They are mostly protestants that theologically descend from John Calvin and other various 'predestinationist' nonsense -
                roughly (in a non nuanced way that many voting in this way are likely to understand it): if you are poor, god is
                punishing you for your own sins, therefore, to get out of poverty, stop sinning. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism
                This is also a convenient way of dismissing the guilt from the legacy of poverty wrought by the slave system
                which many of them are descendants of, as well as immigration and us imperialism.

      b) They also believe that the *state* should not have any say in helping those in need, but it should be up to communities,
                some going further and taking the line that state assistance, being inherently secular in this country, actively destroys
                one of the major attractors to the church, further leading to 'moral decline' etc.

      Much as democrats are often influenced by socialist ideas (omg cant say socialist in the US) and 'futureism'. Which, come to think of it, many anglican / episcopalian , methodists, etc. tend to vote democrat or are much more even (but are much less vocal about their belifs impact on their voting)

      You can't really understand current US politics without understanding:

      a) the protestant reformation viz. colonization of america and english politics
      b) the english civil war
      c) the US civil war.
      d) moderate socialism (e.g. 'new deal' / social democrat stuff) and progressivism / trade unions / etc.

      and these things are not really discussed sociologically in the mainstream press because they challenge peoples identities and are not easily reproducible to polarizing, adrenalin fueling, dopamine releasing soundbites. and socialism / unions / etc is just taboo essentially.

    148. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I voted for him anyway, mainly in the hopes his blank-slate personality could be written on by the Tea Party conservatives who could mold him into a more conservative entity, guided by Ryan. I had the same mindset when I voted for McCain, hoping Palin's conservatism would steer the doddering McCain into a more conservative approach.

      My pick for pres. in 2016: Bobby Jindal. I think he can do it.

      Is Bobby Jindal some other dude that you don't like and hope will be molded by those around him into the magical fairy president that you want? Voting for someone that you don't like in the hopes that he will change after starting the job is asinine.

    149. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you must be a very unhappy man

    150. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, I've got a new signature for you:

      My faith protects me. My Kevlar helps. But not as much as my thick head and false sense of macho pride

    151. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's just pass it to fellow Alaskan congressional member Don Young. He's also an idiot and apparently has been elected for life.

    152. Re:Serves them right by Burning1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      drugs - that's just like the Democrats. Both parties support laws against drug use and both parties have made it clear that when they're in charge of the national government they won't look the other way when states legalize drug use.

      Democrats aren't really united on this one. Libritarians are united in favor, conservatives tend to be united in opposition. Still, it tends to be the democratic states that legalize drugs, and push for reduced sentencing. Trend seems to be towards legalization, and much like gay marrage, I suspect it's the liberals that will make it legal, when it happens.

      abortion - right to life trumps other rights. You can't kill someone just because they're inconvenient.

      A person has a right to life (unless they are a criminal, appearently.)

      A fetus is not a person. The rights of the fetus are trumped by the rights of the mother during the First Trimester. The SCOTUS established that in Roe vs. Wade. It's a good read.

      hiring - the Democrate tell you how much you have to pay and in general what you and another person can agree to.

      You're in favor of indentured servitude? How about human slavery and the sex trade? Both are situations a person may find themselves voluntarily, either due to misinformation or via social or economic pressure. Let me guess, if they make that decision, it's their own fault?

      renting - the Democrats tell you what you can and can't do with your property, and what restrictions you can put on who enters your property

      Your in favor of the landlord being able to enter a unit you are renting at any time, for any reason?

      running a restaurant - the Democrats tell you whether you can smoke and Bloomberg (Democrat who switched parties but not stripes so he could run) even wants to tell you how big your drinks can be.

      Your freedom to smoke vs. my freedom to be smoke free. You're still welcome to smoke on your own property. You're still welcome to make your kids breath your smoke during the most critical time of their development.

      It's also illegal for me to enter an establishment naked, or with a huge boom box.

      racism - the Democrats forbid people from rejecting racism. Either hire based on race (and do school admissions based on race) or face the wrath of Democrats

      Such laws will go away when racism goes away.

      heath care - the Democrats tell you what kinds of health care you need to pay for

      Nope. They simply require that you have health care, which prevents you from placing a drain on the rest of society by abusing the hospital system.

      money - the Democrats take your money so they choose how it is spent

      You assume that democrats do not themselves pay taxes. BTW, you'll find that blue states tend to send more money to washington than they take in. Red states tend to recieve more federal money than they pay in taxes.

      money - the Democrats take your children's money (though Republicans at times have joined them in doing so) so they can decide how your children's future earnings will be spent today.

      President with the best debt record in the past 40 years: Clinton.
      President with the worst debt record in the past 40 years: Regan.

      Bush Sr. was the last conservative president who really addressed spending.
      Spending under Obama has been trending downward over the past 4 years. It remains to be seen whether or not he spends more than Bush Jr. He does recieve props for taking responsibility for Afghanastan and Iraq war spending rather than hiding the debt for someone else to deal with.

      Seriously, how is it that conservatives still believe this shit about their parties fiscal responsibility?

    153. Re:Serves them right by Burning1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I believe Romney had the economic know-how to help get the economy back on track

      First of all, I'm not actually convinced that the economy is in trouble, based on the gross numbers. GDP is back to it's steady climb after the hit it took in 08. What we're actually looking at here isn't a poor economy, but instead general issues with the cost of living for poor and middle class families, dwindling employment, and low upward mobility*.

      Those trends started in the 80s. This was also the decade that we made a move away from Keynesian economics, back towards classical economics and the idea of trickle-down economics. Ever since then, the lower and middle class have seen their real income fall, asset ownership decline, and the cost of living increase.

      I'm not convinced that the guy saying "More of the same!" actually has the ability to fix those issues.

      * AKA the American dream. For many, that dream is dead.

    154. Re:Serves them right by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      No, I mean it's sad for everyone else that someone will eventually let them back in. Then we'll have to go through all the work of smashing them and containing them again, and they'll cause damage in the meantime.

      It's like Aliens: Paul Reiser deserved what he got, but everyone else suffered for it.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    155. Re:Serves them right by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The problem with religious charity, aka tithing, is that it is not truly charitable. It is about giving money to something that benefits the giver whereas true charity is altruistic with no expectation of benefit to the giver.

      That may be true of religions that demand tithes, such as Mormonism, but is not true of most Christian religions. Most pastors encourage tithing but don't require it. And at least at my church, most of what is tithed goes to the poor. And a Christian is not only encouraged to tithe, but to "give alms"; that is, drop a few bucks in the homeless guy's jar and not let anyone know you did so. From your link:

      1
      : benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity
      2
      a : generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering; also : aid given to those in need
      b : an institution engaged in relief of the poor
      c : public provision for the relief of the needy
      3
      a : a gift for public benevolent purposes
      b : an institution (as a hospital) founded by such a gift
      4
      : lenient judgment of others

      Religious giving covers all four definitions except #3.

      One such example is the way the Knights of Columbus -- a religious charity affiliated with the catholic church -- spent $1.9M between 2008 and 2009 to fight same-sex marriage laws in Washington State.

      Agreed, that's not charity. But how much of what is given to the Catholic church (one of my least favorite churches) goes to stuff like this compared to feeding Kenyans?

      Same thing with the way Mormons are expected to pay a 10% tithe to the Mormon Church.

      Not expected; Mormons are required, unlike most Christian faiths. Calling that "charity"s like calling income taxes "charity." BTW, I like that church even less than the Catholic church.

      IMO, there should be no deductions for charity; a tax dodge isn't charity.

      But back to the conservative vs liberal, don't paint conservatives as Christians and liberals as Godless heathens. The fact is, Christ wasn't only a liberal but a radical liberal. Caiaphas and the other pharisees were conservatives, who executed him for his radical talk of feeding the poor, housing the homeless, giving free medical treatment to the sick, paying your taxes without bitching about them, speaking out against the rich and powerful.

      Anyone who considers himself a conservative Christian has some serious mental wars with himself, if he's ever actually read his bible.

      To anyone calling himself a Christian who says "God hates fags", you're wrong. God loves gays, but he hates gays' sins as much as he hates yours or mine, and the gay-basing Christian's sins may be worse; homosexual acts weren't on Moses' tablets, but adultery and covetness are. Oh yeah, Christ's main message was forgiveness and tolerance and nonjudgementalism.

      People should read more.

    156. Re:Serves them right by jbeach · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lolwut???
      The Democrats as the party of hate and racism. Ok....
      Yeah, the Democrats sure showed their true colors when they demanded cops have the right to inspect the papers of anyone who looks Spanish. Oh, and let's not forget how they kept saying Romney must have been born in another country against all evidence to the contrary. And their hate sure was in fine form when several of their candidates stated rape babies come from God so women just have to live with it, and the Democratic Party candidate refused to even retract their endorsements.
      What's that, that was all the GOP and Romney? Why, that's crazy talk.

      --
      The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
    157. Re:Serves them right by nuonguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How the fuck did this get modded insightful?

      Let's see gays - that's one I'll have to give you. The gay marriage thing is debatable, but too many Republicans would even outlaw gay relationships if it weren't for the recent, and baseless, supreme court decision.

      And this makes them far more dangerous than you're willing to acknowledge. What do you think the Santorum/Robertsen types would do if they managed to make abortion and same-sex marriage illegal? They would ban the music you listen to, the video games you play, and then they would go after the way you dress, which church you go to, the group you congregate with etc. Once thugs have gained power, they seek more power. Doesn't this totally remind you of the taliban? ...

      abortion - right to life trumps other rights. You can't kill someone just because they're inconvenient.

      Wrong. Nice right-wing inflammatory rhetoric. This is about the right to make your own medical choices without government interference.

      hiring - the Democrats tell you who you have to work with.

      Wrong. Prohibiting hiring discrimination is not the same thing as discrimination.

      hiring - the Democrate tell you how much you have to pay and in general what you and another person can agree to.

      Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

      running a restaurant - the Democrats tell you whether you can smoke and Bloomberg (Democrat who switched parties but not stripes so he could run) even wants to tell you how big your drinks can be.

      Bloomberg can't do that thankfully, but no one should have the right to force me to inhale their smoke. Plus, there ought to be enforcement for kitchen sanitation practices. Nice try though.

      racism - the Democrats forbid people from rejecting racism. Either hire based on race (and do school admissions based on race) or face the wrath of Democrats

      Yeah, this is the same thing as yelling the N-word to a staffer on his way to work. (that's sarcasm, btw)

      heath care - the Democrats tell you what kinds of health care you need to pay for

      Wrong. This about making health care companies provide you what you paid for. This is about prohibiting local monopolies.

      money - the Democrats take your money so they choose how it is spent

      You mean like how I'm paying for wars that I didn't support? Oh, you mean paying for Haliburton for services they didn't deliver? You mean giving money to oil companies?

      money - the Democrats take your children's money (though Republicans at times have joined them in doing so) so they can decide how your children's future earnings will be spent today.

      The only freedom Democrats seem to respect is sexual freedom. To them all other freedom's are subject to government whim. And on sexual freedom they are so extreme that they work to remove the responsibility that should come with all freedoms and instead have everyone pay for it whether or not they participate, or even approve of it.

      What about warrant-less wire-tapping? Indefinite detention? You cannot support either party if you care at all about personal liberties.

      If you think you're informed or balanced, you're not. You're just wrong. Lay off that fox news crack pipe.

      I don't know a lot of people who are happy with the Democrats but you made me think about how they're different than this group of Republicans and that makes me support the Democrats more than I did before. Thanks, I guess?

    158. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Democrats are and always have been the nation's worst bigots and haters.

      1. Democrats owned the slaves. (Not one slave in US history was owned by a Republican... Frederick Douglas was a friend of Lincoln, MLK was a Republican)

      2. Democrats created the KKK (after the Republicans had to kill a vast number of democrats in that little thing called the "civil war" the dems were still not willing to let black people be free) and the old KKK propaganda used to call for lynching blacks AND republicans (Look it up in the national archives instead of being spoon-fed fake history by unionized democrat school teachers)

      3. Democrats fought to keep women from voting. It was Republicans who fought for women's right to vote, which is why Susan B Anthony was a Republican and swore she'd never vote for a Democrat

      4. Democrats hurl the most vile rhetoric at blacks or women who are conservative... while claiming to be opposed to "divisiveness" and "hate". Just look at all the things said by democrats on the web against any republican who is female or black. The democrat who ran against West in FL actually ran an ad which showed him with a gold tooth (he has no gold tooth) assaulting a little old white woman (he has never done this). Had Romney run an ad showing Obama with a gold tooth assaulting a little old white woman, EVERY liberal on slashdot and msnbc would have have shrieked "RACIST!!!!!!"

      5. Democrats still think they own black people. EVERY government program they construct to "help" blacks is carefully-constructed to trap them in a permanent underclass (by setting the max income/assets you can have to get benefits at a level too-low for you to get out). You will note that the democrats never actually improve the lot of the majority of blacks even when and where they have total government control... if they let too many get free of the systems they built post-jim-crow, then they would lose that voting block. They ALWAYS oppose school choice and voucher programs that would allow black children to get a good education... Obama himself killed the program in DC. The Democratic party can afford a few elite well-educated blacks... they just cannot afford a vast, successful, free-thinking black middle-class; they need a large black "oppressed" population that can be mobilized to fight in each election cycle.

      Republicans who oppose "gay marriage" do not do so out of "hate" but out of the deeply held belief that this particular lifestyle choice is sub-optimal for society generally and families. This is NOT some bizarre radical hateful idea...it's the way Americans ALWAYS have thought (including Obama) up until this year.

      Republicans who oppose abortion do not HATE women... we simply believe that murdering people is bad. Chopping a live child up into little bloody bits and throwing it away is infanticide; murder plain-and-simple. Make no mistake, Obama actually supported a bill that allowed doctors to kill children who's mothers wanted to abort them but who were accidentally born alive... I'm sorry my fellow slashdotters, but if you support this then YOU are are the most vile and hate-filled inhuman people on the planet. It's positively delusional to get angry at, and label as a "hater", a person who opposes something this evil... on par with denouncing the people who hunted Mengele as the real "haters".

    159. Re:Serves them right by davester666 · · Score: 1

      One of the chief 'R's got on the air after the election saying he was OK with raising tax revenue, but not by raising the tax rate for anybody [he wants to lower them for rich people], but by eliminating the tax deduction for charitable giving.

      So it's like kicking the poor in the nuts from the front AND from behind, by reducing donations to third parties that help them as well as by reducing direct gov't help to them through social programs [via negotiating these reductions in exchange for this so-called tax increase].

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    160. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your analysis is also flawed...

      Liberal "charitable" giving to things like nature funds and PBS is charitable in the tax-code way... but it is not feeding a hungry child, or caring for an elderly person and is not therefore, strictly speaking "charity" at all.

      Giving to churches is complicated... it does indeed pay for things like facilities and operators of those facilities (nearly all charitable entities work that way) but it those churches in-turn also provide MANY services to the poor, the sick, the elderly etc that are "under the radar" of people who are not involved. The secular person who drives by a church sees a building and does not see the charitable work... indeed for many religious people, "charity ceases to be "charity" and instead becomes self-aggrandizement if it is publicized (and that's yet another reason why MANY religious people, though obviously not all, do not even take charitable deductions). As to the claim that people give charitably to a church but then they are the ones served by the church so they are not really "giving"... that's garbage. First, no church I am aware of turns away people who are not members when they are caring for people. Yes, many who get helped are members of the church that helps them, BUT if they did not get this help then they would fall into the public systems just as any non-member does if he/she does not seek help from that church... so the church is actually often preventing the society at large from having to face, and deal with, a much larger problem.

      Additionally, money a religious organization spends on political activity (like the prop 8 mormon example you cite) must be done with non-tax-exempt giving (which does not end up being counted as "charitable giving")

      BTW: There is a frequent theme on slashdot (and the left, generally) that we have a "constitutional separation of church and state" and that churches do not deserve tax-exemptions. Churches, however, are not separate entities... they are groups of people who gather together periodically for religious and/or charitable activities (all the money is already taxed at the individual citizen level before some is tossed into an offering plate, and NO the vast number of churchgoers do not take itemized tax deductions on this). Further, if you want to stretch and re-interpret the constitutional prohibition on the government creating (establishing) an official church (like the Church of England, which is what our founders intended to prevent) into an absolute religion-vs-government firewall (as has long been the atheist pr line) then the government ought to be strictly forbidden from taxing them or regulating them at all (they were not, while out founders were alive). In effect, they should be 100% tax-deductible and 100% unregulated.

    161. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry about women, we have "binders full of them". Why they just won't let their cleavage show, I will never know!

      boom-boom-chi

    162. Re:Serves them right by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1

      IMO, there should be no deductions for charity; a tax dodge isn't charity.

      Maybe there should and maybe there shouldn't, but no matter how you slice it, calling giving to charity a "tax dodge" is inaccurate, to say the least. That's typically a line from people that have never done their own taxes, and so don't understand how those deductions work.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    163. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      California gay person with a small correction - Prop 8 was anti-gay-marriage, the CoLDS spent money in favor of it.

    164. Re:Serves them right by lennier · · Score: 1

      Scaring Einstein into the US's hands was, without a doubt, one of the absolute dumbest things the Nazis could have done.

      In terms of politics, sure. Einstein was a celebrity and his presence in the USA lent moral support to them. As would having the support of, say, a high-level opera singer or chess player.

      In terms of actual science? I can't really see it. Since 1915 he'd been on one dead-end track after another with his Unified Field theories, none of which in the end bore any fruit. He'd been at odds with the subatomic physics community since Solvay in 1927, his theories were bogged down in calculation difficulties and predicted the wrong results, and his post-1905 theoretical contribution to the Manhattan Project was zero. He wasn't on the team that built the bomb, and General Relativity wasn't used in its theory. Quantum theory was, but that wasn't based on GR at all, and remains incompatible with it.

      From what I understand, if Einstein had stayed in Nazi Germany and been a full sympathiser of the regime, his preoccupation with relativity wouldn't have helped them get a bomb any sooner, and might even have slowed them down.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    165. Re:Serves them right by approachingZero+ · · Score: 0

      You must be confused, this is about some piece of shit software Romney was trying to use, the backward anti-freedom police state jack-wad party won the election.

      --
      'I don't know what it's called. I just know the sound it makes, when it takes a man's life.' ~ Four Leaf Tayback
    166. Re:Serves them right by lennier · · Score: 1

      Post-election is a time for healing and a time to work towards unity.

      .. until the next election cycle starts in a year, then it's time for hatred and savage mauling! Then healing and unity! Then some viscious partisan rancor again! Then peace love and mung beans! Every eighteen months like clockwork!

      Or, we could act like civilised grownups all the time, even while we're politely but firmly disagreeing with people who, when it comes down to it, are actually and in reality just plain factually wrong.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    167. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always love that stat for two reasons...

      First, because college degrees do not correlate with smart/educated... not any more anyway. I'll take the Wright Brothers, Charles Lindbergh, and Chuck Yeager (no college degrees, but all clever, smart, skilled, PRODUCTIVE, etc) over a bunch of hipsters with degrees in "womens' studies" or "ethnic studies" or "political science" etc any day. I actually had a co-worker several years ago with a MATH (masters) degree who routinely miscalculated percentages! He always had excuses (usually in a hurry, or it was "so simple" he did not pay adequate attention, etc) To be fair, I'm sure he was not the norm... (or at least I HOPE that's not the new norm) but that was not the old norm where guys that lazy could not generally get though a rigorous classical ed with a technical degree.

      Second, if you overlay a map of the states with completely out-of-control finances and facing tidal waves of debt... they match pretty well... OooooH not with the hicks being unable to manage their money. Nope. All those so-brilliantly well-educated losers have college degrees BUT apparently had no general ed math requirements... Oh, and crime maps pretty-well with places run by liberals too (but you need a map that is diced-up to the county level... to really see the effect in all its true glory)

      The real problem is that a classical education produces people who we used to call "educated"... but the post-modern American college/university is nothing of the sort; People now graduate with beliefs that would land them a classical label of "insane" and "ignorant". The modern fool graduates with an "education" that teaches him to put "social value" and "political correctness" on par with rigorous math... which leads to support for social and fiscal policy that will inevitably collapse. The laws of math, like the laws of physics, cannot be broken, no matter how unpopular they might become. The modern system (post 1968) is designed to propagandize young people into the counter-culture; it's designed to teach them to reject the traditional beliefs of their grandparents (the ones who built the nation, invented the airplane, put a man on the moon, etc) and leave them gullible-enough to fall for, and dumb-enough to not see-through, the irrational ideas of "social justice" and socialist "economics". By this measure, I think most posts on sites like slashdot prove that post-modern schools are succeeding wildly in their post-modern mission... sadly....

    168. Re:Serves them right by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Liberal "charitable" giving to things like nature funds and PBS is charitable in the tax-code way... but it is not feeding a hungry child, or caring for an elderly person and is not therefore, strictly speaking "charity" at all.

      I agree somewhat. First the disagreement - "nature funds" generally do qualify as charitable in the lay sense of the term because the donors do not expect to receive anything in turn. Now the somewhat agreement -- things like PBS are not completely sefless because while PBS does educate everybody who wants to take advantage of it, the donor is almost certainly taking advantage of it themselves too. However, it is only the extremists who categorize PBS as a liberal cause, for example even the Koch brothers donate millions to PBS programming. So far I have not seen any evidence to suggest that conservatives care less about cultural and educational donations than liberals and so I feel confident in believing that those sorts of charitable donations are fairly evenly distributed across the spectrum.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    169. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and here I sit thinking it's a government OF the people, BY the people and FOR the people.

    170. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >But you can't deny that criticism of the Democratic party/policy/members is a more dangerous affair on Slashdot.

      Why is this surprising? Intelligent, well-educated people do mostly seem to favor liberalism. Those that do not need to explain themselves.

    171. Re:Serves them right by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Religious giving covers all four definitions except #3.

      I'm going to disagree that #4 is even relevant to the discussion. As for the others - the money spent on the poor and needy typically comes with some level of proselytization. I recognize that there are religious charities who do not overtly proselytize, but even when they aren't forcing people to convert in order to receive the "charity" simply being there and identifying as a religious organization is a form of proselytization and would not be occuring if it were not for the charitable donations in the first place. You touched on this a little bit with the idea of alms, but none of these studies have measured the rates of unclaimed charitable deducations so nobody can draw conclusions either way.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    172. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nazi tech was best on a per machine basis, but not necessarily on a per mark/dollar basis. The Russian T-34 was the winning tank because they could be produced and maintained in greater numbers than the individually superior panzer. Similarly, the US P-51 was more successful than the ME-262 because enough could be produced to effectively escort the bomber raids.

    173. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As probably one of the most-conservative slashdotters, let me point something out...

      The reason most conservatives who value personal freedoms are so anti-drugs generally (and pot is a drug) is very basic. It's easily solvable... but you pot-heads will not allow any real solution...

      I'd happily not-only "de-criminalize" pot (and ALL other drugs of ALL types) if we could have the following:

      1. Some way to prevent any minor from having access... so that the young-and-dumb do not fall into addiction before they have time to finish developing their brains and are therefore able to make a truly informed choice to use. If you are an adult, have at it!

      2. Some way to prevent anybody who is under the influence from negatively affecting others. There needs to be a way to prevent (not sue afterwards) drug-related workplace accidents, workplace errors (like mis-assembled airplane engines), traffic accidents, neglected children, etc caused by people under the influence. There needs to be a way to prevent criminal acts (both to get drugs, and to get money to buy all the other things the druggies need that they cannot afford when they are too addicted to keep a job)

      Our society is already bearing a huge financial and moral burden from alcohol...and until we solve that one, we should not be doubling-down. When we find a way to keep drunks from killing 20K people per year with their cars, THEN we can see if it will also work to keep pot heads from killing with their cars. It's backward-thinking to say let's add another 10K or 20K deaths from drug-driving. Oh, and before some pot head chimes-in with claims that pot users do not cause car accidents... this has been examined to death on the web, and the cat's out of that bag: no states equip their police with portable pot-influence detectors and no state keeps records on accidents caused by pot users not because they do not happen but rather because they lack the ability to detect in the field and they lack the laws to track and store the data; so this is like taking away all the breath testers and ordering police not to keep stats on drunk drivers.... and then claiming that since there are no stats on drunk driving it proves nobody dies from drunk driving.

      Put in place laws that say something like "anybody who operates a vehicle in the presence of others, or neglects a child resulting in physical harm, while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or who commits a crime in support of a drug or alcohol addiction shall receive a trial with 14 days, an automatic appeal within 90 days if found guilty, and death by firing squad within 10 days of losing the appeal if the appeal is lost" and also put in some similarly severe way to block access for minors and block users from killing people indirectly through workplace intoxication, and I'll happily support legalizing and even de-taxing all drugs and alcohol. You want to sit in a bar with friends and get drunk or stoked? Go for it! Want to spend the weekend at hole being stoned and playing Halo, go for it! Want to hop in a car and be stoned or drunk while you drive in the vicinity of my family? Die a quick death. Want to break into my home to get the money to pay your rent because you're too much of a loser to hold a job? Meet mister Winchester. Think you deserve government assistance with your rent, or food bill, or tuition, or phone bill because you just love your pot and cannot be bothered with being a productive citizen? Off to the gallows!

      It's funny how so many people who claim to like libertarianism (because they want to be left alone to do drugs) suddenly want to use government to reach into my wallet to force me to pay for their dysfunctions.... not very libertarian. You want the freedom? Fine! I want it too and I want you to have it! But I accept responsibility and I demand that you do too (Oh, and I generally post AC because it's quicker ans easier... I pop over to slashdot to see what's up and then I see something I disagree with... ;-) )

    174. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least attempt to back up your theories with something - actual results do matter to sane people!

      The military has kept us safe (the #1 priority of the government), helped create the Internet (yes military funding), helped give us NASA (yes military funding and research was again a contributor), it's related technologies, research, discoveries, and industry have created an insane number of jobs and opportunity in the private sector as well.

      "Spend more on people" - Who decides what the people specifically need? Liberal politicians who think they are experts and back up their propaganda with reports from equally obtuse economists like Paul Krugman? For what has been spent, the LBJ War on Poverty and related entitlements have been a dismal failure by all accounts. What specifically can you point to that shows giving âoefree stuffâ to people accomplished anything of value? What stat shows that welfare is lifting people up from poverty? What, aside from the military and NASA has the government even accomplished in recent times? The post office? The Chevy Volt? There is corruption and waste everywhere! You are going to have to go back to prehistoric times 60 years to the Interstate Highway System? Why not just go back 150+ years to the Transcontinental Railroad and you may have a chance at something of substance.

    175. Re:Serves them right by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Where've you been the last 60 years?

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    176. Re:Serves them right by KagakuNinja · · Score: 1

      Your lengthy screed fails to recognize the facts that 1) alcohol is a dangerous drug which is already legal, and 2) alcohol is as bad, or worse on the "developing brains of minors" and "negatively affecting others" scale. Legalizing pot is a no-brainer, because it is safer than alcohol and tobacco in every way, and less addictive too.

    177. Re:Serves them right by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      There is a much more succinct way to make parent post's point: There are currently way too many college graduates who have been educated beyond the level of their intelligence.

      I am unsure whether parent post is itself an example of this. It does seem to be using a lot of verbiage in a pattern that is associated with undergraduates who are more interested in passing the course than in learning the subject. That's the "baffle 'em with bullsh*t" pattern.

      --
      Will
    178. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The government is not us. The government are career politicians who (for the most part) have never had a real job, crave power, and have one goal - to have us depend on them for everything under the sun! Unfortunately their goal has now been realized as this is just the start!

    179. Re:Serves them right by swillden · · Score: 1

      Same thing with the way Mormons are expected to pay a 10% tithe to the Mormon Church. But the Church turned around and spent $22 million of that to defeat the pro-gay-marraige Prop 8 in california.

      That wasn't done with tithing money. It was money raised from the members of the church specifically for that purpose. In fact, I don't think it would even be legal for tithing (tax-deductible charitable donations) to be used to fight a political battle. In any case, I know that requests for donations were made, to support that battle, and that it was made clear to the members that such donations would not be tax deductible.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    180. Re:Serves them right by MyHair · · Score: 1

      It's like the argument put forward by Neal Stephenson in Cryptonomicon - the Allies won WWII because they had the best technology,

      Really? It's been a while since my history classes, but I thought it was the U.S. ability to manufacture more tanks and ships and trucks and things. The Sherman was outclassed but was sent in much larger numbers. And their bomber's couldn't reach the U.S. factories whereas the German factories were having to move into hollowed-out mountains and such. The Germans had ballistic missles, cruise missles, superior tanks and were on the verge of intercontinental flying-wing bombers.

      They also were fighting a two-front war.

      Japan put a prototype jet fighter in the air during WWII.

      I don't think the Allied Forces had superior tech in WWII.

    181. Re:Serves them right by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      bullshit, most Nazi technology e.g. aircraft was superior.

      now that subset known as "information technology" might be another matter....

      Beg to differ on that front. Nazi aircraft engines were superior for a time, but the P-51 Mustang pretty much wiped out Nazi air superiority in early 1944. Once the problem was defined the Allied solution was more than effective. Same with tanks: hello bazooka! U-boats were probably the Nazi's best technology, but that was more due to the experience level and tactics of their commanders being superior than the tech itself. Germany had an early lead in tech because of complacency by other nations. It was Allied know-how (i.e., tech; a lot developed by German defectors) and perseverance that ultimately won that war.

    182. Re:Serves them right by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      I'm going to avoid your other points. Most of them are matters of opinion, yelling at a cloud is unproductive, but how could you possibly consider Michale Bloomberg a Democrat? The guy ran as a Republican and is now independent! And yet that somehow doesn't count, because his "beliefs" are Democratic?

      Sure, the Republican party endorsed him and he ran as a Republican, but we all really know he's a Democrat! Look, he restricts freedom, and hating freedom is a Democratic value!

      And banning smoking indoors was a pretty unanimous bi-partisan effort. But in your equation, Democrats are the only ones in government who impose their beliefs on the public, so s be damned! It has to be attributed to them.

      Please.

    183. Re:Serves them right by westlake · · Score: 1

      I guess this is what happens when your backward, anti-freedom police state party systematically alienates all the programmers and sysadmins and hackers, all the good techs and IT personnel who otherwise might have wanted to help you.

      Bull.

      The geek is for hire like anyone else.

      Fox News, for example, is a division of News Corporation one of the largest, most diverse, and technologically sophisticated media enterprises on the planet.

    184. Re:Serves them right by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      I don't know why people would be offended by CS Lewis. I don't think anyone here dislikes rational religious folks, just the crazy kind. I'm a fervent atheist and Screwtape Letters is one of my favorite books.

    185. Re:Serves them right by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      I think one of the great ironies of Romney's campaign is that if he stuck to his true beliefs, which are quite obviously (IMHO of course), much more moderate and pragmatic than what he showed in the campaign, he probably would've beat Obama. But he swung hard to the right in order to win the primary (both now and in 2008), while Obama had the freedom to campaign more to the center.

      I think Mitt by himself would have made a great president. Mitt + the national Republican party was an abomination waiting to happen.

    186. Re:Serves them right by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Basically every post so far in this thread and most of the posts to come will be wild speculation and name calling anyways, I dont even know why youre bothering with facts.

    187. Re:Serves them right by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      That wasn't done with tithing money. It was money raised from the members of the church specifically for that purpose. In fact, I don't think it would even be legal for tithing (tax-deductible charitable donations) to be used to fight a political battle. In any case, I know that requests for donations were made, to support that battle, and that it was made clear to the members that such donations would not be tax deductible.

      It does seem that there is more to the story. Apparently the $20 million was raised, as you said, via a specificly created non-charitable organization. However, it seems that the current tax code permits up to 20% of a religious organization's spending to be used on non-candidate politicing such as citizen initiatives regarding "moral questsions." So, given the vast amounts of money they do collect, they probably could have laundered $20M just fine.

      Citation for both points: SFGate - Tax-exempt benefit disputed in Prop. 8 campaign

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    188. Re:Serves them right by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      They hate us, they curse us to their imagined hell and pray that their gods strike us down.

      Excuse me, during the GOP convention several slashdotters repeatedly stated what a good thing it would be if the tropical storm drowned the lot of them, and this to rousing support from most.

      What, exactly, do you call that?

      Im sure its always been this way-- but my increasing awareness of how polarized politics is makes me absolutely sick. Why cant people accept that others differ in how they view governance without thinking we hate you? Im a republican, and simply dont think the government should be involved in much more than very rudimentary safety nets; can everyone accept that this isnt because I eat babies or hate poor people?

    189. Re:Serves them right by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      We happily apologize-by-hellfire-missile to people in a dozen countries we're not at war with if someone there looks at us funny. The notion that the events in Libya went down as they did because Obama or some significant part of his command structure is unwilling to use force doesn't seem plausible.

      It's likely that it was a fuck-up of some sort (not yet clear what sort), but it's not part of a pattern of squeamishness over *ahem* apologizing big-ass holes in people until they're dead.

      Military officers catch massive amounts of shit if they disobey orders, even if the orders were dumb. I can't say that strikes me as unusual; more like standard procedure.

    190. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... thinking of fiscally conservative Republicans ...

      As I recall ,small print on some Republican policies demand raising taxes. I wonder if all those 'no new taxes' politicians know that?

    191. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The allies had sonar, radar, electric computers, pidgeon-based communications network (MI 14), dam-busting bombs and the world's largest army (Russian infantry).

      The Nazis had air supremacy with missiles and jet aircraft. The missiles were wasted on civilian targets and the jet aircraft were never mass produced.

    192. Re:Serves them right by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Religious charity is not tithing. Tithing is an old name for tax, specifically church tax. Unless it is a tax it is not tithing (tithing btw means 10%).

    193. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's obvious why your Kama is only 1. You must post inane shit all the time.

      1 seems enough to do some serious damage

    194. Re:Serves them right by kdemetter · · Score: 1

      Because hate also does damage to the person doing the hating.
      In other words : because it's not good for you to hate anything : your time is better spend loving those you care about.
      Just ignore the haters, they are not worth your energy.

    195. Re:Serves them right by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      In terms of politics, sure. Einstein was a celebrity and his presence in the USA lent moral support to them. As would having the support of, say, a high-level opera singer or chess player.

      Replace Einstein with Niels Bohr then. He left much later living in Denmark which despite being occupied by Nazies refused to discriminate against Jews or people of partial Jewish descent like Bohr, but he did travel to the US to join the Manhattan project after his friend and prodigy Heisenberg came up to Copenhagen and asked weird questions about the physics behind how to build a nuclear bomb.

      Antagonizing Bohr was definitely not their best moment, and on the way to the Manhattan project Bohr also helped convince the otherwise Nazi-sympathizing Swedes to accept the Danish Jews in case they needed to be evacuated (which they did a few months later).

    196. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are more conservatives so it is not unexpected that they give more. The problem is that a few of the conservatives take far more than anyone else, so it totally skews the relationship.

    197. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously, you don't know much about the Battle of Britain, the dominance of the Spitfire as a fighter interceptor, or the critical importance of radar.

    198. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ted Stevens, the urinal to nowhere. Just build it in Alaska and they will come and just make sure it on the taxpayer's dime.

    199. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They also had radar and very capable radar-equipped night fighters.

      The allies were ahead on radar.

    200. Re:Serves them right by kdemetter · · Score: 1

      you are using the word "dangerous" in an odd context. Even the most rabid Democrat on Slashdot lacks the ability to reach through the screen and strangle you. You may have meant "disapproved of", or "likely to be condemned." Possibly even "harshly moderated".

      I would have agreed with you many years ago, until I made the unfortunate mistake of clicking a goatse link.
      It may not be physical strangulation, but as far as psychological damage goes, it's not far off.

    201. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I favor libertarianism , not liberalism
      I want more freedom, through less government ( there is simply too much government, costing to much, and working too inefficiently to be useful ).

      Put simply : I want a lean, efficient government, which does it's basic tasks well, while working for the people and not against them. And I'm willing to pay reasonable taxes for that.

      However, I also wouldn't call myself intelligent or well-educated, so maybe I don't fit the criteria.

    202. Re:Serves them right by router · · Score: 1

      Music? You do know that Tipper Gore (Mrs. Al Gore) was cofounder of the PMRC, who absolutely tried to control the music we listen to. They all the same man, two sides of the same coin.

      This music witchhunt, that was during the time when climate change was the most important thing in the world, to Al, that he never did a damn thing about, in all his years of public service.

      Or something.

      andy

    203. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the allies had better technology.

      Radar - the British had better radar, clearly. The Germans, who captured units, said it was like alien technology to them it was so advanced.

      Nukes - If war with Germany had continued perhaps only a few months longer, it would have been facing a nuclear-armed opponent. Germany stopped developing its nuclear weapon a long time previous.

      V2 - The Germans had developed rocket technology, and this costs them as much as the US nuclear program, but was completely ineffective. Scuds, as they are known today, impart bigger terror but mainly because of the mobility and accuracy of the units, which was absent in the early V2 rockets.

      Jet engine - Germany developed the Jet Engine first, but failed to produce an aircraft that exploited it effectively, Hitler being obsessed with bombers.

    204. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CINO

    205. Re:Serves them right by TheLink · · Score: 1

      the Republicans are cutting taxes to please one group, while spending more to please others.

      If the US Government keeps spending more money than it doesn't have, you end up with inflation.

      So your US dollar becomes worth less. This in effect taxes everyone in the world with net positive amounts of US dollars (which includes Japan, China etc).

      But it also taxes the US citizens. Now if the US Gov was spending that money on US citizens then it makes them rich at the expense of the rest of the world, which is good for the USA. However they are spending the money on wars that don't appear to be making the average or median US citizen better off. Just makes a rich minority richer.

      --
    206. Re:Serves them right by gtall · · Score: 1

      Also, Germany had Hitler, let's just say the gene for military genius was suppressed in him. The mistakes he made in Russia, even after Napoleon showed how not to do it, were epic. And he managed to create a two front war with Germany in the middle. What did he think the Russians and the Americans were going to when they got pissed?

    207. Re:Serves them right by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      If you look at the christian right wing of the Republican party, it tends to be mostly evangelical/baptist (just look at where the red states are on the map - you'll find a baptist church on practically every street corner).

      These churches tend to strongly encourage tithing. Sure, theologically they wouldn't consider it required to be considered a christian, but they also wouldn't consider not beating your wife required to be a christian. In practice, anybody who doesn't tithe is viewed in these churches almost the same as somebody who beats his wife.

      What those tithes get used for varies greatly by church. However, a huge percentage of that goes to the operational expenses of the church - many christian leaders teach that this is where it actually ought to go, with more charitable uses being funded by offerings beyond the tithe. Much of this is spent on manpower. If every small congregation of 40 people wants a pastor who works full time at that church, well, guess where all the tithes are going to go. When you get to megachurches you end up with a lot of infrastructure (huge buildings, AV, theatrical effects, etc), and then a lot of staff to maintain all of it plus the requisite 12 pastors with two secretaries each. When you get to denominations there is even more overhead for all the administrative levels, though denominations are more likely to have less staff per congregant at the individual church level.

      Sure, churches do give a lot to the poor, but compared to the kinds of expenses involved in just running the church it isn't much.

      In contrast, if I were to go to the local astronomy club and toss $10 in the dues jar to pay for the upkeep of the club equipment and rent, that wouldn't be considered a charitable contribution.

    208. Re:Serves them right by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Well, they're definitely for tax cuts. Well, for everybody but the unborn kids they like to campaign on. They'll be the ones who get to pay for the huge spending spree.

    209. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      No I am just referring to their base.
      They seemed to only court those voters and all their media seems geared for it.

    210. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And they believe that the government should stay the hell out of their religion.

    211. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Yes, several slashdotters did. Who are normal folks, compare to the repubicans that have had both their politicians and media personalities make those sort of claims.

      Do you see the enourmous difference?
      Republicans want to limit the rights of homosexuals, how is that just a different view of government? Was apartheid just a different view of government?

      You were a republican, that party does not want you or barry goldwater or the sane version of McCain anymore. You need a new party.

    212. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      The racial biases of the parties flopped 50 years ago. Read about the southern strategy.

      Republicans who oppose gay marriage are depriving people of a civil right. Nothing makes that right.

      Republicans who oppose abortion also want to limit womens rights. Nothing makes that right.

      Republicans claim to be about freedom, then focus on limiting it.

    213. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      You can say the same thing about McCain. Had he run in 2008 as the McCain of years past he would have easily won. The republican primiaries and the GOP itself prevent that. The primaries demand fringe rightwing talk and the GOP will saddle any moderate with a fringe right wing VP.

      I wonder if they will continue giving away elections like this.

    214. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Only if define "great things worth having" as wealth and a good deal of that coming from destruction. Like Bain capital did when it destroyed healthy companies, or turned smaller ventures into walking corpses of debt and sold them on the stock market.

      Greed is killing our healthcare industry. Capitalism was unchained and nearly killed our banking system.

    215. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Libertarianism in the US is based on a very liberal school of though that of the Anarchist Libertarians| left anarchism. The idea that capitalists have taken this mantle is unfair to real anarchists, but also fitting in that they have taken some of the tenants.

    216. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      So your solution is to deprive them of due process and their lives.

      The constitution will thankfully not allow that.

      Can we kill you the next time you drive slightly tired? Or answer your cell phone while driving?

      Your solution would cause more harm than the issue it claims to solve. It is also immoral to such an extreme I cannot express it.

    217. Re:Serves them right by jtseng · · Score: 2

      From Wikipedia:

      Adkisson's manifesto also cited the inability to find a job, and that his food stamps were being cut.

      And he blames his problems on Democrats and liberals?! WTF?!?!

      --

      Sanity.html - Error 404 not found

    218. Re:Serves them right by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      so....the haters should criticize people for hating them? Sorry they have No standing to do so....If the Dali Lama criticized "liberals haters" for hate speech against racists that would be a different story. Rush Limbaugh criticizing "liberal haters"....sorry..no.

    219. Re:Serves them right by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      That's only because game designers think it's cool because it's from Asia and boost it's attributes. Actual state-of-the-art melee, before guns, longbows, and crossbows ruined it, was armor and a polearm or 2-hander.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    220. Re:Serves them right by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      That is the goal -- argument from moral intimidation until people flee.

      Don't deny it. Also, religion has been using it for thousands of years. QED Politics is religion.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    221. Re:Serves them right by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      The correct solution would be to make it tax-free for other groups to donate, too, not to use the power of government to tax the people to discourage speech in election persuasion.

      Search the butthurt of your feelings -- are you truly opposed because of "too much money" corrupting politicians, or "too much money" maybe persuading people to vote against what you want?

      Given the polarized nature of politics, it should hardly come as a surprise the money follows the position rather than the other way around.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    222. Re:Serves them right by kdemetter · · Score: 1

      All I'm saying is : Don't spend energy on all those people hating ( you can't change them anyway ), spend it on loving the people you care about.
      Haters don't deserve your energy.

      This explain it better than I possibly can .

    223. Re:Serves them right by ais523 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I'm British, and was watching the debates in 2008 (I didn't in 2012, too busy at work). McCain seemed entirely reasonable before and after the election, but during it, he was insane, presumably in an attempt to win the Republican vote. At the moment, I'm not convinced it's possible to win the Republican primary and also win the election. Perhaps that will change over the next few years.

      --
      (1)DOCOMEFROM!2~.2'~#1WHILE:1<-"'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"
    224. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't matter how advanced your sword making technology is compared to mine if I have more advanced gunpowder technology.

    225. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool story, bro.

    226. Re:Serves them right by doginthewoods · · Score: 1

      and who is the government for, anyway. "Of the people,for the people" and by the people rings a bell? The government serves the people and serves to create, coordinate and direct efforts and money to improve the lives of it s citizens. All you are doing is ignoring what Jesus tell you to do, and using GOP rhetoric to provide an excuse.

      --
      Republican leadership = Idiocracy
    227. Re:Serves them right by swillden · · Score: 1

      AFAIK the LDS church has never availed itself of that 20% option. In general, the church scrupulously avoids politics, limiting itself to periodically reminding the members to actively participate in the political process. Granted, in areas where Mormons are numerous merely reminding them to vote will have an impact on outcomes of votes around moral questions.

      The decision to semi-officially endorse that members should participate in the Prop 8 campaign was an unusual and large change from normal practice, and even then the church was careful to maintain its official/legal distance.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    228. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was somewhat exactly what I was thinking.... :-)

    229. Re:Serves them right by fm6 · · Score: 1

      I agree that a reasonably intelligent and honest conservative could have beaten Obama. But with the right-wing crazies determining who wins the primaries, there was no way such a person could be nominated.

      And I have to question whether Romney qualifies as such a candidate. You talk about his true beliefs. WTF are they? When he was Governor, he was pro-Choice (there's a video somewhere where he's getting very emotional about how banning abortions just causes dangerous back-alley procedures), pro-gun control, pro health care reform. Then when he was trying to persuade the crazies to support him in the primaries, he was against all those things,. Then when he was debating Obama he tried to paint himself as a centrist, as if he'd never said any of the crazy stuff. Either the guy totally lacks any core beliefs or he's willing to lie about them; either attitude is beneath contempt.

      And intelligent? Look at the all the mistakes he made as a candidate. You can blame his campaign team, but he chose them.

      The man would have been a disaster as President.

    230. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Democrats, as the victors, need to be magnanimous, not petty like this.

      You mean petty like this?:
      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=allen+west+concede

    231. Re:Serves them right by swalve · · Score: 1

      And yet the Democrats also keep on spewing the hate against anybody who dares to disagree with them or challenge their plans. Imagine that.

      Guess it only counts as hate when you're disagreeing with a liberal, not when you're bashing rural, religious, old, or uneducated people, huh?

      Got a cite for this hate-spewing you talk about?

    232. Re:Serves them right by swalve · · Score: 1

      The government is simply one way PEOPLE organize to help one another.

    233. Re:Serves them right by swalve · · Score: 1

      But doesn't that giving just stay within the religion?

      "No," says Brooks, "Religious Americans are more likely to give to every kind of cause and charity, including explicitly nonreligious charities. Religious people give more blood; religious people give more to homeless people on the street."

      These examples are all still giving to charity where the giver gets to decide the worth of the recipient. It's easy to give blood when they know it will go to someone somewhat like them. They get to choose which homeless guys to give to. They get to choose to give money to non-religious charities that are aligned politically with themselves. Sure, they might give more. But that giving doesn't help people who they don't like, and that's the problem.

    234. Re:Serves them right by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I think it's possitively halarious that 6 Billion dollars were spent on campaign advertising, and nothing happened for it.

      Another good laugh is to view the groups of people at each of the presidential parties on the election night. One party was represented by all walks of life, the other was the largest collection of angry people recorded, ever. I think someone should submit this fact to the Ginnuess staff.

      The One-Liners that the Tea Party generated have not grown old either; for example, "How many of you need to hide your money in the Grand Caymons?" It just doesn't get old!

    235. Re:Serves them right by fm6 · · Score: 1

      McCain drives me crazy. For a long time he was the arch-conservative liberals could admire, because he tried to deal with liberals honestly and fairly, because he refuses to take himself too seriously, and because he's been through a lot of nasty shit and faced up to it with courage and dignity.

      Then in 2008 he seemed to decide that he wanted the Presidency bad enough to abandon his own core values. I see to recall a lot of his long-time aides left him about then. During his previous tries at the job, he got screwed over — this time he seemed to want to be the one who did the screwing. Wackiness ensued.

      He's tried to be less crazy since, but really, it lacks conviction.

      In hindsight, I have to wonder how much of this craziness is about appealing to right-wing voters and how much is about appealing to right-wing donors. I can't see any other explanation for McCain jettisoning his first choice for running mate (Joe Lieberman) in favor of Sarah Pain, a lady who managed to more than any single person to elect Obama.

    236. Re:Serves them right by LifesABeach · · Score: 2

      It took me a couple of seconds to see that your comment was one of Irony. What I think as completely ironic is when Billy Graham, a Morman Clut Believer, was "persuaded" to change his views, just before the U.S. election; truly amazing, and funny.

    237. Re:Serves them right by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      I guess this is what happens when your backward, anti-freedom police state party systematically alienates all the programmers and sysadmins and hackers, all the good techs and IT personnel who otherwise might have wanted to help you.

      The Republicrats? The Democans?

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    238. Re:Serves them right by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      Fix your damned GOP and quit trying so hard to put the blame for your failings on those GD liberals.

      The rest of your hateful rhetoric is disgusting, but this point is dead-on. There are those of us trying to do just that.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    239. Re:Serves them right by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      That's not capitalism, it's corporatism. And the "banking system" hasn't existed in a free market since 1913.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    240. Re:Serves them right by LifesABeach · · Score: 1
    241. Re:Serves them right by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Instead of Hate, consider Pity.

    242. Re:Serves them right by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      But doesn't that giving just stay within the religion?

      "No," says Brooks, "Religious Americans are more likely to give to every kind of cause and charity, including explicitly nonreligious charities. Religious people give more blood; religious people give more to homeless people on the street."

      These examples are all still giving to charity where the giver gets to decide the worth of the recipient. It's easy to give blood when they know it will go to someone somewhat like them. They get to choose which homeless guys to give to. They get to choose to give money to non-religious charities that are aligned politically with themselves. Sure, they might give more. But that giving doesn't help people who they don't like, and that's the problem.

      That's not a problem, it's why it works better. Because forcing people to deal with a faceless and dispassionate bureaucracy when they need help means people often don't get the help they need, and many people abuse the system that don't need the help at all.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    243. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try pissing down a tube instead

    244. Re:Serves them right by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

      Typical zealot, justifying usurpation of freedom by demanding absolute safety for all people at all times....especially The Children!

      People smoke pot now. They will continue to smoke pot regardless of what the law says. Therefore nothing can provide you with the perfect safety you demand. Better hide under the bed.

    245. Re:Serves them right by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

      Back to the conservative Armageddon bunker with him!

    246. Re:Serves them right by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      Can someone please tell me where this "dog whistle bigot" codebook is? I really want to know about those coded messages.

      49% equals a "base" of bigots (who are in fact largely white fundies)

      Well no wonder there are so many racial fights.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    247. Re:Serves them right by hardihoot · · Score: 1

      Is Bobby Jindal some other dude that you don't like and hope will be molded by those around him into the magical fairy president that you want?

      I like Bobby Jindal. He does not need to be molded into a candidate with core conservative values because he already has them. There will never be a president who 100% espouses what I want because a political candidate must forge an alliance among diverse individuals into a common cause to get elected. Politics is taking many different people with different viewpoints and throw them enough bones so that they vote for you. Romney threw me more bones (albeit very few) than Obama so I voted for Romney. My preferred party, The Constitution Party, is too small to affect an election just as the Green Party. So, you vote for the one who can at least in some way implement your vision for America.

      I will auto-vote for Jindal for the following:

      Jindal signed a law that permits teachers at public schools to supplement standard evolutionary curricula with analysis and critiques that may include intelligent design

      "The Theory of Evlolution" otherwise known as "An Opinion on Human Origins as pronounced by 'scientificly minded' chest beaters and hand wavers" is ridiculous and should not be taught as fact. I am all for a candidate who will trounce this.

      Jindal opposes the legalization of same-sex marriage.

      The redefinition of marriage is anathema and must be discouraged and squashed at every opportunity. Just as I do not uphold prostitutes, schizophrenics, and drug addicts as people to be admired and emluated, so I do not uphold homosexuals as anyone to be proud of. They are sick people who need help and counseling, not encouragement in their wrong ways. Homosexuality is a mental illness. Activist sociologists and psychiatrists declaring it otherwise is abhorrent and untruthful.

      Jindal has stated his support of the Second Amendment's right to bear arms. He has opposed efforts to restrict gun rights and has received an endorsement from the National Rifle Association

      Boo-RAAA. He gets my vote.

      Voting for someone that you don't like in the hopes that he will change after starting the job is asinine.

      My first choice for the Republican nomination was Herman Cain but he did not make it so I was stuck with the choice of not voting, voting Constitution Party, or not voting at all. I certainly would not ever, under any circumstance, have voted for Obama so I was forced to vote as best I could.

      --
      A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver --Proverbs 25:11
    248. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Calling the Democrats the party of "Hate" and "racism" is weird. They ARE one of the two main parties favoring centralized authoritarian government, but they aren't the ones pushing hate and racism.

      FWIW, I didn't vote Democratic, because I couldn't force myself to vote for a president that signed a bill giving himself the right to order any citizen killed without trial. He's got many other major flaws, starting with the way he voted for secret courts back while he was a Senator, but I might have overlooked those to oppose Romney (who is even worse, and is supported by followers who are worse than he is...well, that can be said of everyone, but still...).

      As to the integrity of the election...I truely doubt it, but when the exit polls agree with the tallied vote, there isn't that much basis for the doubt, if, that is, all qualified voters who desired to vote were allowed to vote (and not duped out of their right). FWIW, I heard many stories of Republicans suborning the vote by convincing qualified voters to not vote. I didn't hear any such stories about the Democrats. Well, stories aren't proof, and anyone can make claims. But it raises a lot of suspicion in my mind as to just *who* tampered with the vote, and just *how* it was done. That said, in the prior election BOTH sides were shown to have tampered with the vote. I don't recall that it was ever have shown that it changed a result, however (even though there were various suspicions raised).

      Yet again, a supreme court decision sealing a vote so that it couldn't be examined sticks in my mind, and I *DEFINITELY* count that as Republican vote tampering. There's no way of knowing whether it would have changed the result. But it seems that the government's desife is to not consider the problem. To make a decision, and then PRETEND that it was the decision of the voters, whether that was the actual vote or not. IIRC the supreme court explicitly said that the reason for it's decision was so that a decison could be reached NOW without regard to whether or not it was correct. And to prevent it from being challenged by sealing the evidence.

      So I consider BOTH parties to be complicit in voter fraud, on the basis of past elections.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    249. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah? If they don't like it, maybe they should move back to the country they came from?

    250. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      California didn't have a visible homeless population until Ronald Reagan was governor. Many that were in mental hospitals were put out on the streets. So much for taking care of the guys that were seriously messed up after being drafted and doing duty in Vietnam.

    251. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must not have been fucked out of your job as a result of the bullshit of the past 5 years. Lucky you ignorant fuck.

    252. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Let me guess...you're in your twenties or early thirties.

      libertarianism is unstable.(The lower case "l" is intentional, as I'm not talking about the party.) Well, more unstable, all governments are unstable. I'm in favor of liberalism, because given the current state of the government, that a place that's relatively easy to transition to. Many of the tennants of libertarianism are compatible with liberalism, so it possible to transition to a libertarianistic liberalism from a centrist liberalism.

      (A long justification follows, with some digressions on stability of various governmental types)
      In each case you've got to figure the plausible trasition states unless you are advocating violent revolution. That often makes drastic changes, but very rarely of a desireable nature.

      So the real question is "What plausible transitions are there from a statist-authoritarian-rightist government. (And I consider Democrats to be a rightist party.)

      Some of the constraints are that the population typically lives in large clusters with rapid transport and communication. This makes many possible transition states so unstable as to collapse nearly immediately into some other near-by state. Anarchy, e.g., would immediately collapse into warlordism. If the warlordism was stable enough, it would evolve into feudalism, but given rapid transport and communication, it's not stable enough. Unless and exterior authority intervened it would probably oscillate back and forth between warlordism and short episodes of anarchy until the rapid transportation and communication broke down. Then the warlordism might evolve into feudalism, or possibly directly into monarchy (if the warlords had rapid transportation). Etc.

      In our current society there are other stable states...but anarchy isn't one of them. Dictatorship is stable, and it can evolve into monarchy which can evolve into limited monarchy, which can probably evolve into some flavor of democracy. But I really doubt that society would be stable for long enough for that to happen.

      Another transition is from autocratic-authoritarian to liberal-authoritarian to liberal-libertarian...with the libertarianism being very constrained. E.g., I can see unregulated access to drugs as being stable, but I have a hard time seeing unregulated access to weapons as being stable. The factor enabling unregulated access to drugs to be stable is that it would allow the populace to sedate themselves. (N.B.: Alcohol is a very poor choice for a drug to allow to be unregulated. It MUST be largely unregulated, however, because it is popular with a very influential segment of society, and forbidding it cause massive social upheaval. Marijuana is much better, as it sedates. Opiates, again, should probably not be regulated...but allowing it to be unregulated requires acceptance of a large number of suicides via overdose...often unintentional. LSD is relatively harmless, but tends to loosen social conditioning. In a libertarian setting this is basically harmless, unless you count people choosing to harm themselves.) Authoritarian regeimes often feel the need for sumptary laws...but note that other authoritarian regeimes coesist happily with many drugs that act to sedate to populace. Cocoa (unprocessed, and containing cocaine) was used by Aztec slaves, as opium was used by Greek and Roman slaves, to make their lot endurable. However such regeimes cannot abide "psychedelics", at least if not administered in a controlled religious setting. (I'm being a bit general here. Historical background doesn't really justify all this.) In this case by religious I essential mean a setting that is used to justify the current government. Explicit spiritual meaning is not a requirement, but it exists in all historical settings with which I am familiar.

      OTOH: Rapid changes of state between approximately equally stable states (of government) can happen very rapidly, and without much drama. (Here I'm not counting the collapse of the Soviet Union as being "without much dra

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    253. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 2

      Sorry, but college degrees DEFINITELY correlate with educated. And the correlation is strongly positive.

      I will agree that this doesn't imply that college degrees correlate with smart, particularly without a good working definition of smart. They are negatively correlated with creativity, e.g.

      Please note that these two correlations have not significantly altered in the last few centuries, presuming that you are, in each case, comparing against an appropriate control group. This isn't to say that the percentage of the population being so educated has remained constant. It hasn't. But that is a totally separate argument.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    254. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, it isn't (necessarily) really a collaborative effort. It's just that each side is so totally focused on the short term that when they get in their focus is on "extending our political power". So it's *as if* it were a collaborative effort.

      See flocking behavior in artificial life simulations. (e.g., "boids" http://www.red3d.com/cwr/boids/ )

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    255. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      That's not actually true. But the amount they give doesn't approach the amount that the churches save by not paying taxes.

      That said, some of the churches DO serve useful purposes WRT charity. And some of them are acutally net positive contributions to society. Most of the others are not massive drags.

      I haven't been able to measure in my mind whether (ignoring the fundies) the churches are a benefit to society or not. One of my neighbors was massively helped by the congregation of which she was a member, before I even knew she had a problem That said, there are lots of people within five blocks of here that depend utterly on government assist.. They couldn't pay their rent without it, much less buy food or medical care. And they aren't being helped by the churches. But many homeless in truely destitute condition are helped by missionary churches, self-serving as they are.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    256. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Not that I disagree with your conclusions, but you mistate the problem.

      The Republicans favor tax cuts FOR THE WEALTHY.
      The Democrats favor spending more ON THE IMPOVERISHED.
      Both sides want to spend more on the military, though the Republicans are slightly more eager.
      Both sides want to claim to cut taxes, though the Republicans are much more eager.
      Neither side wants to acknowledge a tax rise, though the Democrats are slightly more willing.

      The last time the budget came close to being balanced was under a Democrat. I believe (though I'm not sure) that it was starting to pay off the national debt that caused the orchestrated attempt to get him impeached. (Yes, he was indeed corrupt. *IF* we've had a president in my lifetime who wasn't corrupt, it was Eisenhower, and I've my suspicions about him.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    257. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      What do you consider to be a viable alternative?

      When answering, please consider the debt that a college loan entails, and the rapid ongoing automation of all feasible jobs...to the extend that workers in China are being replaced by robots.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    258. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I was, indeed, quite offended by many aspects of that story. But it's still a good story. Not, however, up the "Out of the Silent Planet", or "The Screwtape Letters"

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    259. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Obama has indeed not been a strong president. I credit this to his not wanting to push the proposals he want to be seen as favoring, but it's possible that he really just has not strong political feelings.

      He still appears better than Romney. Mind you, that's not saying very much.

      I'm considering the possibility that the Republicans are proposing candidates who are more and more impressively right-wing whackos as a "Tactics of Distraction" kind of thing, to manuver the Democrats more and more right, until the Republicans can propose a centrist candidate and sweep the election. Either that, or they're aiming for a dictatorship and don't care who the dictator is. (And it's quite plausible that their backers might not care who the dictator was, as long as he followed orders.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    260. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Or Enrico Fermi.

      But Einstein was not ineffective as a scientist. It's true he was unable to accept quantum theory, but it was his attacks that turned it into a massively successful theory. (Admittedly, most of what I know about that was from after the war, but also note that he was a theoretician rather than an engineer, so to expect him to directly participate in building an atomic reactor is unreasonable.)

      For that matter, it was some of Einstein's attacks on quantum theory that lead to the laser and to concentrations of atoms all in the same quantum state (sorry, can't remember the name at the moment...not even well enough to google it)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    261. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      You are ignoring the difference in size of production facilities.

      That said, if Hitler had continued to get Chamerlain type responses from his opponents, his side would have won the war. But I'm not really sure he could even have won against Russia alone.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    262. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      FWIW, apparently the Germans had radar too. Neither side knew that the other had it (though the Allies found out first). Which is really strange, when the Germans were on the offensive first.

      As the attack shifted, and the Allies began aerial attacks on Germany, they started using chaff to block the German radar.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    263. Re:Serves them right by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I don't think that the A-10 rocket was EVER approaching ready. The Saturn was a development of the V-2 (I forget what it's German designation was) but the A-10 was just abandoned. This was probably because it would have required transistors to work properly. Vacuum tubes are ok in a stable environment, but under heavy shocks they tend to lose their filaments. Some will continue to work, as proximity fuses proved, but I suspect that complex circuits were too unreliable to use.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    264. Re:Serves them right by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      I dont make those claims. Unless I misread your post, it was a categorical condemnation of republicans, like myself; Am I a bigot too? Did I create this polarization?

      Maybe you should dial your rhetoric down a notch unless you really do mean to call all republicans-- myself included-- bigots.

    265. Re:Serves them right by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      Just ignore the haters, they are not worth your energy.

      Bullshit. Civilization doesn't just happen. It has to be seized from the grasp of those who are trying to tear it apart. Ignoring them won't work.

    266. Re:Serves them right by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      The government serves the people and serves to create, coordinate and direct efforts and money to improve the lives of it s citizens.

      Ahahah hahahah hahahah hahahahah hahahha *splat*

      The "splat" was the sound of a drone strike splattering one of "we the people's" heads on the authorization of a single man, with no due process.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    267. Re:Serves them right by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      No, that would be a charity. The government is a way some PEOPLE use force to extract money from other PEOPLE to help their friends.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    268. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "First of all, I'm not actually convinced that the economy is in trouble". There is an excellent book This Time is Different, by Reinhart and Rogoff, which goes through 600-800 years of financial metrics and shows that the probability of economic collapse is high when countries get to debt/gdp levels of 80-100%. We are there. The US has been going the wrong diretion on this metric, and during Obama's administration, going in the wrong direction on it very quickly.

      Keynsians (such as Krugman) argue that this is just a consequence of appropriate Keynsian stimulus -- that the government should print and spend a lot of money (increasing debt) but that it will be OK because soon the GDP will increase at an even more rapid clip, bringing debt/gdp back into line. Krugman argues that our debt/gdp isn't bad and that bond rates prove it. However, This Time is Different specifically examines how many economies through history grew their way out of the debt/gdp problem (not by reducing debt, but by gdp growing enough to avert disaster) and found that almost none did.

      It is possible that the US has a lot of room or time or both on debt/gdp. After all, Japan has had a large debt/gdp for a long time. But it is also possible that this time is not different (i.e., the major point of the book This Time is Different). If it is *not* different, then the US runs a substantial risk of a huge financial calamity, much larger than the recent debacle.

      When I look at that, as a person who knows about probability and modelling, I look at two cases. If running up more debt is the right way to go, outcome1 = (probability Krugman is right) x (economy doing OK). If running up more debt leads to a wipe out, outcome2 = (probability that This Time is Different is right) x (consequences of an enormous economic disaster). I think that outcome2 is much, much greater than outcome1, and so that we should act *right now* to get debt/gdp down, and not by trying to Keynsian our way out of it (which according to This Time is Different doesn't work).

      The US debt/gdp is nearing what it was for Greece when they wiped out. The US is not Greece -- but This Time is Different makes that case that we are very likely not exempt from the debt/gdp metrics shown historically.

      Romney says he would have gone in a much different direction on all of this compared to Obama. 650 economists including 5 Nobel laureates felt that Romney's economic plan was much superior to Obama's. These economic reasons were a major factor for me in deciding whom to vote for.

    269. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      P-51's are good planes, but they are equivalent in performance to the late-war German piston-engined planes except in range (which the German's didn't need and so didn't pursue). The German Me 262 was vastly superior to the P-51 in all aspects but range. The 262 was not outdone by a US fighter plane until the Korean war. The Germans also had the Me 163 rocket plane, the He 162 jet fighter, the Ar 234 jet bomber/recon plane, and were nearing production on numerous other things (like jet-powered flying-wing bombers).

      What made the difference there was Germany getting outproduced and outnumbered and the fact that their numerous advanced designs didn't enter into the war early enough and in enough numbers to matter.

      (Also, it wasn't the P-51 that wiped out Nazi air superiority, regardless of what a Wiki entry says about it. The Luftwaffe was in great trouble before the P-51's arrived in numbers.)

    270. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Libertarianism and anarchism are completely different things. Libertarians also are not left or right the way democrats and republicans think of it. Libertarians are right of republicans on fiscal policy and aspects of role of government. They are left of democrats on social policy and the related role of government.

    271. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To paraphrase a Fox News anchor:

      Are these the facts that you cite as a Republican to make yourself feel better or is this real?

      You didn't paraphrase -- that was verbatim.

    272. Re:Serves them right by sideslash · · Score: 1

      Romney hasn't supported discrimination and racial/socioeconomic hate, nor has the mainstream Republican party. His 47% comment was dumb, but it wasn't hateful. If all you can point to is the 47% thing, and perhaps a lack of support for gay marriage, I'm just going to yawn.

      You weren't specific when you called Republicans hateful, so I'll call your bluff, and do you one better. Contrast Romney's positions with your self-anointed Racial and Socioeconomic Lord and Savior, Barack Obama. In 2008 Obama addressed a predominantly black audience at Hampton University and told a bunch of very hurtful lies that had no other purpose than to stir up racial animosity over a purely fictional supposed grievance. In short, he complained in his speech that the Federal government had bailed out post-911 NYC and post-Hurricane Andrew Florida with aid money that was purely gifted, and didn't require local funds allocated in proportion, but only sent aid money that had those strings attached to post-Katrina New Orleans. Obama said that it was because New Orleans had mostly minority recipients, and that therefore they weren't considered part of the American family. And what was wrong with this speech? The government had in fact sent a bunch of money for Katrina aid with no strings attached, and in fact sent more aid in total for Katrina than for the NYC and Florida disasters put together. And could you maybe defend Obama by saying he didn't know about that? Not a chance. At the time, Obama was a sitting United States Senator, who (get this...) VOTED AGAINST THE AID. Now, to be fair, it was attached to a defense bill that Obama didn't like, and it passed over his objections, yada yada yada... but the fact remains that in his speech to that predominantly black audience, he was instigating racial animosity using a nasty lie.

      You can demonize conservatives if you like, but please get a lot more specific like I did above, instead of just spouting insults. Conservatives are human beings, like Obama, and they certainly have flaws. I don't believe your generalization is fair, though, any more than I believe that Obama's hateful behavior at the above conference characterizes his presidency overall -- this was a low point, and I'm happy to say that he's generally done much better than that.

    273. Re:Serves them right by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      Einstein-Bose Condensate.

    274. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed that Obama's spending is trending downward in the last four years... under a Republican House, the same as Clinton.

      Reagan, had a Democrat house, so to work out the lessening of the tax burden (actually broadening and lessening) he had to stay with the same spending, rather than being allowed to cut when and where it was possible.

      Spending tends to trend with the Congress rather than with the Pres. I say it's groovy to have D president that makes the rest of the world feel like we are at our nadir, and that our leaders are shrinking violets. If, and only if, we can also have R's running the Congress so we can actually have an economy worth living in.

    275. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? Were you paying attention to the bumbling fool named Obama during his debates in 2008? Literally, a neophyte with no real experience of any consequence gets elected President and you think the Romney was the inexperienced initiate? Seriously, you need to take some nootropics and read more.

    276. Re:Serves them right by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Really, really think about what was going and has been going on. Was the advertising campaign that bad, after all it did suck them into spending billions of dollars which means someone earnt billions of dollars. So four years of marketing to convince the rich and greedy they could buy an election but only if the spent enough, really seemed to have worked quite well, the suckers will be spitting chips over that blown investment. Fox not-News is whining because they lost the election not because the Republicans did, a public demonstration of the marketing and public relations failure, likely billions of campaign 'EARNINGS' lost in the next election cycle.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    277. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, not everyone is a polyglot. Sometimes you just trust the wrong people. Sometimes those people cause the deaths of ambassadors in Benghazi by denying help from a nearby annex, sometimes the screw up the IT on an election.

    278. Re:Serves them right by TheRedSeven · · Score: 1
      I've got Karma to burn, so it doesn't bother me too much. (Not that I was TRYING, mind you.) But I'm confused like you. Perhaps I should have linked to things? Let's try this again...

      increased warrentless wiretapping of Americans, by giving retroactive immunity to telcos who aided in breaking the law, by fighting for punitive laws that would cripple the internet, by negotiating lousy treaties that would reduce freedom, by sending the FBI to foreign countries to seize property ...

      There, that ought to satisfy the g^Hmods out there...

    279. Re:Serves them right by approachingZero+ · · Score: 0

      Politics is religion? I guess that explains how some people vote. For me politics should be based on the real.

      --
      'I don't know what it's called. I just know the sound it makes, when it takes a man's life.' ~ Four Leaf Tayback
    280. Re:Serves them right by hibiki_r · · Score: 1

      The difference was manufacturing and manpower capabilities: US factories could outproduce the Germans, and the US had plenty of manpower to man their air force. The Germans could never match that manufacturing capacity, and have trouble replacing pilots, so even when they had a technological advantage, it was all over. You'd have to be a fool to bet on4 P-51s beating 4 ME-262s in a dogfight, but the Germans deployed them very late and couldn't make enough to matter.

      The eastern front is a similar story: The Germans wouldn't have done any better if you handed them Soviet T-34s tanks. Cheaper to make, and the Soviets could man tons of them just fine.

      Economics just doomed the Nazis, unless they somehow managed to find a technology that made said industrial differences irrelevant. The problem is that the US got to it first, as Japan learned quickly enough.

    281. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A sure sign of a scared, uneducated, low intelligence, under class moron is that they are easily bamboozled, by hate and fear campaigns by slick politicians with good hair ("who you could sit down and have a beer with"), into voting against their own interests.

      Let me guess, America is on the brink of collapse thanks to the deliberate work of Mohammed Obama over the past 4 years, and now thanks to the libtards having reelected him, Jesus won't return for another 4 years?

    282. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rack city bitch... Rack, rack city bitch...

      Ten, ten, twenty, and them fifties bitch.

      Rack city bitch...

    283. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't ban abortion in the same way you can't ban alchool.

      states that tried nust find themselves with womans having a lot of misterious accidents, locally and especially abroad.

      And letting racket run local underground clinics is just inhuman.

        I do not endorse abortion in any way but the other option is just worse in any way.

    284. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also helped the Soviets to win the space race.

    285. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is the nature of things.

      Tyrants, special interests, corruption, greed, have always been around and always will be. In USA, and any other country you would care to look at.

      A great society and a truly free people, who have control over their own destiny, is something that will need to continually be fought for. If you were to ever attain that goal completely, then dropping your guard and relaxing vigilance will result in a speedy regression.

    286. Re:Serves them right by tibit · · Score: 2

      I agree. If it happens that CS Lewis's writings find parallels in artifacts of Christian tradition, so what. What's so wrong about a story where someone sacrifices him/herself for the greater good? I'd much rather see people actually act Christian without tooting their horn and interfering in others' lives.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    287. Re:Serves them right by tibit · · Score: 1

      Romney has no fucking clue how to get economy back on track. Not the U.S. economy, anyway. He loves shipping jobs to China.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    288. Re:Serves them right by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I do my own taxes and have never taken that deduction.

    289. Re:Serves them right by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      What I find amazing is how conservatives keep patting themselves on the back about how smart and intelligent they are, and how liberals are the 'dumb vote'. Meanwhile, the evidence to the contrary is so overwhelming that I can only stare in disbelief. Hell, Fox News viewers have been clearly shown to be less informed about current events that people who watch no news at all.

      And never mind the fact that these people also deny evolution occurs despite the enormously overwhelming evidence, think hurricanes are caused by gay people and that earthquakes happen when women bear their breasts in public.

    290. Re:Serves them right by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      You mean like the conservatives do in that article you posted?

    291. Re:Serves them right by sycodon · · Score: 1

      So ALL conservatives think evolution is the devil's work? Then ALL liberal crap on police cars, haven't showered in three weeks and are otherwise like those depicted in the Obama Bucks videos.

      The only evidence you have to the contrary are "facts" you make up and then use to bray about your superiority. For every embarrassing thing you can point to of conservatives, I can match with regards to stupid liberals.

      And you just ignored my point, which is if you feel you have to tell people how smart you are, then odds are you really aren't that smart.

      So go ahead...keep proclaiming your limitless intellect and we'll all just shake our heads at what an ass you actually are.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    292. Re:Serves them right by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1

      I do my own taxes and have never taken that deduction.

      Well, I commend you for standing by what you believe.

      But could you explain why you think that it's a "tax dodge" to not pay taxes on money that you give away? The amount of money that you save on your taxes is only a fraction of the amount that you actually gave to charity, so it would make no sense for an individual to make a monetary donation to charity in order to reduce their taxes. (Non-monetary donations and corporate donations are perhaps a little less clear-cut.)

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    293. Re:Serves them right by approachingZero+ · · Score: 0

      The healthcare system is not a living thing. You know that don't you? No, what nearly 'killed' the banking system was the US government pressuring banks to giving out home loans to people who couldn't pay them back. Bain capital is a private equity company, you need to do some research before you start making accusations because you sound like a loon. Corpses, death. Jesus.

      --
      'I don't know what it's called. I just know the sound it makes, when it takes a man's life.' ~ Four Leaf Tayback
    294. Re:Serves them right by Burning1 · · Score: 1

      I'm fortunate to be pretty close to the money. If you're close to the money, you're doing fine in this economy. For guys like me, the recession ended in 09. I took a 25% pay cut in 08, and I was back to my former levels a year later. I make more now than I did 5 years ago.

      If you look at the data, GDP started rebounding in 09. Corporate profits are back up. Most economic indicators show that business is doing well - many of the indicators are at or above pre-recession levels (housing obviously isn't back to it's bubble levels.)

      Here are a bunch of economic information(pdf warning)

      The fact of the matter is that there's plenty of economic activity in the financial and corporate sectors. But those sectors don't really drive hiring in a service economy. A healthy middle class is what's going to drive hiring. If I make 10x as much as you, I don't buy 10x as many clothes, employ 10x as many mechanics, or eat 10x as many meals. Hiring recovers when the middle and lower class have discretionary spending for those things.

      Demand drives hiring my friend, not money. There is plenty of money available to hire more workers, but not enough demand in order to do so. Trickle down economics don't fix that problem. No amount of tax breaks will incentivise a company to hire when they simply don't need more employees. Make sure the middle class is taken care of. Focus on fixing income inequity, control the cost of living. Demand will increase. When people can afford housing again, more houses will be built. When people can afford cars again, the factories in Detroit will need to fill more shifts. Hiring will improve in all sectors of the economy.

      Do you really think the party of supply side economics can fix a demand problem?

    295. Re:Serves them right by Burning1 · · Score: 1

      Quick Google search suggests that economists in the educational sector broadly favored Obama. Business economists were very mixed, but somewhat tended to favor Romney. You provide information about the economists who support your position, but fail to provide information about those who oppose. I think you've fallen victim to Confirmation Bias.

      If debt spending is an issue for you, you can't honestly favor conservatives. Although conservatives take the stance of being the anti-debt party, their track record over the past 30 years has been abysmal on that front, with Regan by far having the worst record for debt spending. In that time period, the only conservative president to take a serious stance on the deficit has been Bush Sr, who was unfortunately voted out of office for his position. Comparatively, Clinton actually managed to reverse the trend of debt spending, and Obama seems to also be slowing the rate of spending.

      Obama has of course, inherited a very heavy rate of deficit spending, and in his favor, the rate of spending has fallen for every year he's been in office so far. The trend would appear to be continuing with the wind down of the Afghanastan war.

      In general, the conservatives seem to have favored tax cuts over budget control, and most of their suggested policies (cutting social services) would not have affected a significant reduction in debt spending. Romney made it very clear in the debate that he has absolutely no intent to reverse debt spending (comments on the size of the navy, inability to provide details of his debt reduction plans, sabre rattling about another war with Iran, etc.) The conservative party appears to be unwilling to touch major sources of debt spending (military) since it brings major income into their respective states. All indicators point to him being another refund-and-spend conservative.

      I agree with you that deficit spending is a major issue.

    296. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The were some more physical technologies where the US was slightly ahead:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project

    297. Re:Serves them right by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      First of all, I didn't mean to imply that all conservatives deny evolution and I apologize if I did. That being said, if you made even the slightest attempt at googling, you would find that the only person making stuff up here is you. A massive number of conservatives DO think evolution is the "devil's work", as you put it.

      And no, I didn't ignore your point. You ignored mine. You accuse liberals in general of going around talking about how smart they are. Meanwhile, the article you posted does exactly that. It's one big long ad hominem attack. So the only one trying to act smugly superior here is you.

      The problem here is that you "can't handle the truth". And the truth is that the average conservative IS more poorly educated than the average liberal. Go on, look up the stats if you dare. People in traditionally conservative states are less likely to have a degree. Hell, they're less likely to graduate high school. This has been confirmed by a number of different sources. The data is all there waiting to be googled. Similarly, studies have been done that show people who watch Fox News are even more poorly informed about current events than people who watch no news at all.

      And, since I obviously have to point this out explicitly, I am NOT accusing them of being 'not as smart'. What I AM accusing them of, is being more poorly educated, and making the conscious choice to be wilfully ignorant of the facts. The evolution thing is just a very obvious and well known example of that.

      If the best you can do is put the word "facts" in quotes and just hand wave my argument away, then you are a perfect example of what I'm talking about. If you want to challenge me on this, then refute my points directly. Show me hard data that I'm wrong. I dare you to try.

    298. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can we get rid of the brainless AC posts already? They're all shoot-from-the-lip ignoramuses like this asshole.

      I'm an Obamatron, but I can't abide the Huffpost. So I learned about this fiasco from Newser, which linked a conservative web site which linked John Ekdahl's blog. John's a Romney volunteer, and his scathing description of Orca is informed by his day job as a web developer. And the there's Pudge, who helped design Slashdot, and who I presume voted for Romney, unless he considers him too liberal.

      So obviously there's no absence of IT talent on the right side of the aisle. What is missing is administrative judgment by Romney himself, who obviously bought some IT snakeoil from somebody, and has generally managed to find total clowns to run his campaign.

      People keep telling me about this brilliant guy named Mitt Romney who had a brilliant academic career (MBA and JD from Harvard), did well as a management consultant and equity capitalist, and accomplished great things as Governor of MA, even though the other party controlled the legislature. But I just don't see how that can be the same guy!

      When a snake oil salesman gets burned by the snake oil he purchased-- there's only one word for that: Karma...

    299. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fact: Despite talk to the contrary, the last Republican administration to balance the budget was the Eisenhower administration.

    300. Re:Serves them right by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      yes, the soviets landed on the moon, put rovers on mars, send probes to all the planets, put a telescope in space to watch 100,000 stars for years to discover transiting planets, and have the lead in deploying and developing the ISS.

      oh, wait, they didn't and they don't.....

    301. Re:Serves them right by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      why mention the americans, it was Russia that brought the nazi military machine to a halt.

    302. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      You are supremely ignorant on the foundations of libertarianism. Most likely due to ignorance of anarchism.

      They are indeed fiscal conservatives and socially liberal. Their candidates however tend not to follow up on that latter one.

    303. Re:Serves them right by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      congress including obama made the law, then the president signs it

      Obamba the lying flip flopping sack of shit, traitor to the Constitution, enemy of freedom and liberty.

    304. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I mean the GOP today is the party of bigots. It needs to die and be replaced by another party.

      Each individual may not be a bigot, but that the audience the party focuses on serving.

    305. Re:Serves them right by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Oh wow who gave what to the salvation army. You realize that is a religion right? So many people may intentionally not give to them and instead donate to foodbanks.

      Show me a study that excludes giving to your church and I will show you a legitimate charity study.

    306. Re:Serves them right by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Pointing out how stupid someone is, is NOT the same as proclaiming your intelligence.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    307. Re:Serves them right by sycodon · · Score: 1
      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    308. Re:Serves them right by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      Well now isn't THAT interesting!

      When liberals do it, they're proclaiming their intelligence. But when conservatives do it, they're just "pointing out".

      Do you even realize how hypocritical you're being?

    309. Re:Serves them right by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      Is it really necessary to drop the fbomb?

      And with all due respect, is that the best you can do? One article talking about one specific thing Jon Stewart said? Jon Stewart had even (which he of course then twists to his own purposes...) apologized on air for his remarks. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-21-2011/fox-news-false-statements?xrs=share_copy

      I also managed to find this. I don't know what the political leanings of that site is, but they make an interesting point.
      http://mediamatters.org/research/2011/06/22/jon-stewart-gets-it-right-about-fox-news/180787

      But thank you for pointing me to that politifact site. If you look further into the site, they seem to have an a pretty substantial number of items calling out republicans as well. In fact, if you check out their Pants on Fire section (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/rulings/pants-fire), that entire section is overwhelmingly, almost exclusively republican, which is consistent with my argument that conservatives actively try to misinform. Not that democrats don't lie of course, but republicans seem to be way far in the lead on that score.

    310. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time this came up a graph was linked that showed the trends starting around 1978 making the policies of the Nixon administration proximate.

    311. Re:Serves them right by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      All those other guys that he didn't like were getting the food stamps he had earned by being white, duh.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    312. Re:Serves them right by Burning1 · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth, the US and Greece aren't the only countries carrying high levels of debt, and this is not the first time US debt has exceeded the GDP.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
      http://davidappell.blogspot.com/2010/08/us-debt-today-vs-ww2.html

    313. Re:Serves them right by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      And this makes them far more dangerous than you're willing to acknowledge. What do you think the Santorum/Robertsen types would do if they managed to make abortion and same-sex marriage illegal? They would ban the music you listen to, the video games you play, and then they would go after the way you dress, which church you go to, the group you congregate with etc. Once thugs have gained power, they seek more power. Doesn't this totally remind you of the taliban? ...

      Sensationalist rubbish. Akin to Republicans claiming Democrats are going to make all firearms illegals and disarm the populace -- or akin to claims of socialism and death panels. Namely, of equal likelihood.

      Wrong. Nice right-wing inflammatory rhetoric. This is about the right to make your own medical choices without government interference.

      Just because you've chosen to define life at some arbitrary point doesn't give your opinion more value than the other guy that chose to define life at a different arbitrary point. Seeing as how scientists can't even agree on the subject, I'd say you're both wrong. Both sides are ignorant in the abortion debate because NEITHER is willing to put themselves in the other person's shoes when debating the topic.

      hiring - the Democrate tell you how much you have to pay and in general what you and another person can agree to.

      Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

      Wanna cite some facts for your blanket objections? Because last I heard, things like minimum wage laws and hard limits on profit margins for drug companies are exactly what the OP was describing.

      heath care - the Democrats tell you what kinds of health care you need to pay for

      Wrong. This about making health care companies provide you what you paid for. This is about prohibiting local monopolies.

      The "pre-existing condition" portion of the legislation is a very small piece of the entire bill. The bill itself practically establishes a monopoly by leaving in place the existing system and forcing people to buy healthcare. Now you can no longer participate in healthcare without insurance.

    314. Re:Serves them right by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      Aren't you also misstating the problem? The biggest runaway cost in the budget is social spending, and the Republicans seem to be the only ones willing to broach that topic. And in regards to the "last balanced budget", it's important to note that it also came under boom times AND a Republican congress.

    315. Re:Serves them right by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      I wonder if that if that is a result of democratic bias or just the facts behind most of the issues?

      There was so much more lying and misinformation on the conservative side of this election. I have some far right family members, and every time I got a political oriented email from them, or saw one of their facebook posts, it would literally take me 30 seconds on google to disprove it.

    316. Re:Serves them right by jbeach · · Score: 1

      So, to review your response, it's:
      1) completely skipping over the Arizona point
      2) completely skipping over that Romney refused to retract his endorsement of Murdouck, after Murdouck stated "pregnancy from rape is something God intended'
      3) bringing up Democratic party ads that have nothing to do with the current question of Democrats being 'the party of hate',
      4a) bringing up Democratic party past history of Jim Crow as if that is relevant to this recent election, which it's not, 4b) accusing Democrats of being racist because Democratic-voting *minorities* tend not to trust minority conservatives for being *conservatives*, 4c) and also accusing Democrats of being racist for trying to defeat Republicans ,
      5) pretending that the Republican party has only pursued this nonsense of Obama being foreign-born because it was something once said by one of his publishers - as if that was enough reason to ignore every single shred of evidence ot the contrary, including the birth certificate he released while he was compaigning in 2008. Even though, as you state yourself, it wouldn't matter if Obama was born on the moon since his mother is a US citizen.
      I mean, come on man.

      --
      The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
    317. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because there is a moderation bias towards facts, which means it easy to criticized the Republican party/policy/members and be factual, but it takes a relatively more carefully though out post to do so with the left. But a lot who try, try to use made up statements that don't have a factual foundation, and get modded down, those that do get modded up.

      Remember the Democrats biggest weakness when they're in the majority even when they have a super-majority is they turn on their own. because while we might have a general agreement on goals, But there are deep divides on the hows.

    318. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Nazi's had very advanced technology, but most of it was unreliable, difficult to maintain, and difficult to produce. The American tech wasn't as advanced, but you could be sure it wouldn't break down.
      He didn't say advanced, he said best. As in, overall most effective.

      V2 rockets might've been scary, but ultimately didn't help the Nazis at all. Same with their jets, rocket planes, crazy helicopters, flying wedges, or any of their other various hairbrained ideas.

      Want to see the epitome of German engineering in WW2?

      Look up the Battle of Kursk. The Germans were, literally, defeated by their own tanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk

    319. Re:Serves them right by readin · · Score: 1

      drugs - that's just like the Democrats. Both parties support laws against drug use and both parties have made it clear that when they're in charge of the national government they won't look the other way when states legalize drug use.

      Democrats aren't really united on this one. Libritarians are united in favor, conservatives tend to be united in opposition. Still, it tends to be the democratic states that legalize drugs, and push for reduced sentencing. Trend seems to be towards legalization, and much like gay marrage, I suspect it's the liberals that will make it legal, when it happens.

      Republicans aren't united either. As you say, the more libertarian ones tend to prefer legalization while the more conservative ones oppose it. However, the libertarians usually don't say much about it because they have so many other priorities. So many other simple freedoms are ignored that if you're a libertarian trying to figure out which ideas to work toward first, drugs have trouble getting anywhere near the top of the list.

      abortion - right to life trumps other rights. You can't kill someone just because they're inconvenient.

      A person has a right to life (unless they are a criminal, appearently.)

      A fetus is not a person. The rights of the fetus are trumped by the rights of the mother during the First Trimester. The SCOTUS established that in Roe vs. Wade. It's a good read.

      Yes, you have a right to life, unless you're a criminal. Just like you have a right to freedom, unless you're a criminal. As for the rights of the unborn, the question of whether they have a right to life is one that has many arguments for and against. My point though was that being the party of liberty is not inconsistent with the being the pro-life party. If you believe the unborn have a right to live, then it makes sense to exclude the right to murder the unborn (or anyone else) from the list of freedoms you want to protect.

      hiring - the Democrate tell you how much you have to pay and in general what you and another person can agree to.

      You're in favor of indentured servitude? How about human slavery and the sex trade? Both are situations a person may find themselves voluntarily, either due to misinformation or via social or economic pressure. Let me guess, if they make that decision, it's their own fault?

      A pure libertarian could, I suppose, support indentured servitude. However the principle we usually support is the ability to make a labor contract and then allow either party decide, for whatever reason, to terminate the contract. That is, when you trade labor for money, you should be able to decide to stop supplying the labor whenever you want (so that you're not an indentured servant). Similarly, you should be able to stop supplying the money for whatever reason. (Though I think an exception for union busting is a good thing.)

      renting - the Democrats tell you what you can and can't do with your property, and what restrictions you can put on who enters your property

      Your in favor of the landlord being able to enter a unit you are renting at any time, for any reason?

      I'm in favor of the landlord being able to put that in the contract. I'm also in favor to potential tenants saying "H#ll NO" when a landlord does that. I'm also in favor of landlords being able to screen potential tenants based on whatever criteria they like, and for restaurant owners being able to screen customers based on their criteria. After all, customers have the right to refuse to patronize a restaurant for whatever reason! And from a practical standpoint, business owners have even more market motivation to treat potential customers and employees fai

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    320. Re:Serves them right by readin · · Score: 1

      How the fuck did this get modded insightful?

      Let's see gays - that's one I'll have to give you. The gay marriage thing is debatable, but too many Republicans would even outlaw gay relationships if it weren't for the recent, and baseless, supreme court decision.

      And this makes them far more dangerous than you're willing to acknowledge. What do you think the Santorum/Robertsen types would do if they managed to make abortion and same-sex marriage illegal? They would ban the music you listen to, the video games you play, and then they would go after the way you dress, which church you go to,

      You just went too far there. No, they wouldn't go after which church you go to because they respect the first amendment guarantee of the free practice of religion. As for the music and video games - they would likely try but they would have only limited success.

      the group you congregate with etc. Once thugs have gained power, they seek more power. Doesn't this totally remind you of the taliban? ...

      No, but you remind me of Godwin.

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    321. Re:Serves them right by readin · · Score: 1

      From Wikipedia: A Democrat before seeking elective office, Bloomberg switched his registration in 2001 and ran for mayor as a Republican, winning the election that year and a second term in 2005. Bloomberg left the Republican Party over policy and philosophical disagreements with national party leadership in 2007

      The guy was a democrat. He became a Republican just because he wanted to be mayor and knew he couldn't get the Democratic nomination. He remained a Democrat in his mind and left the Republican party.

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    322. Re:Serves them right by readin · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that if the government wants to tax 100% of everything you earn, it's not slavery because you have a choice of whether or not you want to work and because we have a constitutional amendment allowing Congress to do it?

      I suppose you're right. It doesn't give me any comfort though.

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    323. Re:Serves them right by readin · · Score: 1

      running a restaurant - the Democrats tell you whether you can smoke and Bloomberg (Democrat who switched parties but not stripes so he could run) even wants to tell you how big your drinks can be.

      Your freedom to smoke vs. my freedom to be smoke free. You're still welcome to smoke on your own property. You're still welcome to make your kids breath your smoke during the most critical time of their development.

      It's also illegal for me to enter an establishment naked, or with a huge boom box.

      No you're not, and that is my point. for some reason it is perfectly legal for people to walk around outside on the sidewalk forcing me to breath their smoke, but illegal for them to smoke in a privately run restaurant ( a place that I can easily refuse to go ) .

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
  2. Demographics and the Republican Party by AMCandel · · Score: 5, Funny

    Looks like all his competent IT people self-deported to the other campaign?

  3. Or... by DumbSwede · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps more people just wanted to vote for Obama.
    I'd hate to think it all comes down to how good your IT team is (even though I'm on one).

    Then again, perhaps it is some comfort to the Republican's -- "All we have to do is better IT next time" -- and not bother to change the message.

    1. Re:Or... by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      I'd hate to think it all comes down to how good your IT team is (even though I'm on one).

      For this to be true, we'd have to assume that giving a speech last minute is enough to sway a voter to vote or change their votes, I disagree. Showing your face and saying a few choice words shouldn't be why people follow anybody, actions however...

      Also LOL @ botching an application w a counter and geolocation capabilities.

    2. Re:Or... by Trepidity · · Score: 2

      Yeah, in this particular election I think all these stories about GOTV efforts and ground games are unlikely to be pointing to real deciding factors. In a 2004-style election where the winner comes down to maybe, but when you're talking about 5% shifts, that starts to get out of the range of what you can get from just better phone-banking.

    3. Re:Or... by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ugh, Slashdot ate part of my comment due to a <.

      Reposting:

      Yeah, in this particular election I think all these stories about GOTV efforts and ground games are unlikely to be pointing to real deciding factors. In a 2004-style election where the winner comes down to <1%, maybe. And this year, it's plausible some better turnout operations could've flipped Florida, which Romney only lost by 0.6%. But to win overall, he'd need to flip all of: Florida (0.6%), Ohio (1.9%), Virginia (3.0%), and Colorado (4.7%). The first is plausible, and the second is on the edge of possibility, but once you're talking about 5% shifts, that starts to get out of the range of what you can get from just better phone-banking.

    4. Re:Or... by skids · · Score: 2

      Were I to listen to my paranoia coprocessor, it would have me believe that every excuse offered that seems to shield the right from some serious soul searching also serves to make it sound like "the next time will be better" to all the mark^H^H^H^Hdonors. And the Romney team was "shellshocked" in the same way Bain Capital is when one of their holdings collapses after assuming mounds of debt to pay Bain Capital.

      But for once I will diligently apply Occam's Razor and attribute the whole mess to stupidity.

    5. Re:Or... by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      Were I to listen to my paranoia coprocessor, it would have me believe that every excuse offered that seems to shield the right from some serious soul searching also serves to make it sound like "the next time will be better" to all the mark^H^H^H^Hdonors. And the Romney team was "shellshocked" in the same way Bain Capital is when one of their holdings collapses after assuming mounds of debt to pay Bain Capital.

      But for once I will diligently apply Occam's Razor and attribute the whole mess to stupidity.

      You're thinking of Hanlon's Razor. Not that Occam isn't totally inapplicable here.

    6. Re:Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and not bother to change the message.

      "Changing the message" only makes sense if a group's purpose is just to win power.
      What if the majority just doesn't agree with your genuine beliefs? Do you just go along with the crowd, or stay true to your convictions?

    7. Re:Or... by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      But it's not just phone banking. From my understanding, what Obama's campaign did was more Big Data oriented, gathering data on individual voters to target the right approach for each of them. Is this a persuadable voter? What issues will he/she respond to best? What method to reach them is best, a phone call or an in-person visit? And then armed with that data, following through to the local ground teams.

      I would not be shocked to learn that that kind of targeted application of persuasion, knowing the weakness, applying the right pressure in the right way at the right time, can absolutely move 5% of a vote.

      And I think this is why the Republican party is pretty well doomed. What will win elections in the future is science and data. Not that "science and data" are political issues, but the understanding that there is a science to winning elections, through the surgical collection and exploitation of data. This is not the way a large amount of the Republican leadership thinks. They will continue to believe that elections "should" be decided based on feel-good flag waving and religiosity, and they will not change that mindset, even though better application of math and technology has twice allowed a black dude to beat rich white guys to the White House.

      And on a completely unrelated note, I hope you choke on your 3 digit UID. grumble...

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    8. Re:Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not bother to change the message.

      Like lower taxes, smaller government and capitalism?

      THOSE BASTARDS

    9. Re:Or... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      The fact that Romney did his best to be a closet case even in light of the Benghazi Incident did not endear me to him. He had the perfect opportunity to be presidential, to show some moral courage, and to even demonstrate how he can relate to the man on the street in the Middle East while also correctly framing the entire situation in terms of core American values.

      "Been there. Done that. Understand your rage. Gotta take the bad with the good in a free society. Your liberty depends on the other guy's."

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    10. Re:Or... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      You might want to go look up the last time the Republican president wanted a smaller government.

      Hint. It was Nixon.

      Which is why tax and spend(D) is much more fiscally sound than lower-tax and spend(R).

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    11. Re:Or... by mea_culpa · · Score: 1

      More likely there was nothing to get anyone excited about voting for Romney. If you look at the numbers voting this time around vs 2008 and 2004, it is obvious that many stayed home.
      Romney's campaign was a ruthless dictatorship with zero grass roots. I am not surprised when I hear about screw ups like this.
      Obama didn't do much better in grass roots either. He failed to sell out stadiums too, but at least could fill them half way whereas Romney was lucky to fill the first few rows on the playing field with the stadium seats completely empty.

      http://youtu.be/Kql7rMrRGxo

    12. Re:Or... by readin · · Score: 1

      But it's not just phone banking. From my understanding, what Obama's campaign did was more Big Data oriented, gathering data on individual voters to target the right approach for each of them. Is this a persuadable voter? What issues will he/she respond to best? What method to reach them is best, a phone call or an in-person visit? And then armed with that data, following through to the local ground teams.

      Just trying to understand Slashdot here. When a corporation like facebook does that kind of data gathering on individuals, that's bad, but when a political party does it, that's good. Am I right?

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    13. Re:Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a volunteer for the Dem GOTV ground game, in my experience the Repubs could double their efforts and it will make little difference. I don't believe that the pool of eligible voters that are swayed by ground games favors the republicans. In my efforts we find folks that need child care or eldercare or what have you in order to get to the polls. Maybe I'm biased but this type of person wants to vote D and just needs a little help on election day.

    14. Re:Or... by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, you don't win elections by having more people wanting to vote for you. You win elections by having more people actually get to the polls and cast a vote for you. GOTV is critical in winning a race unless you're are totally blowing the other guy away, as in CA where Obama got almost 21% more votes than Romney.

      Still, there's something in what you say. Obama's margins in the swing states this year weren't landslides, but they were pretty solid in a lot of those states:

      NV (6EV): 4.6%
      IA (6EV): 5.6%
      CO (9EV): 3.7%
      WI (10EV): 6.7%
      VA (13EV): 3%
      NC (15EV): -2.4% (Romney win)
      OH (18EV): 1.9%
      FL (29EV): 0.5%

      It's easy to imagine that without Obama's GOTV effort he'd have lost at least FL and OH -- and conceivably (although less likely) in VA and CO. Flipping all four of those states would shift 69 electoral votes, bringing Obama down from 332 to 263 and Romney up from 206 to 275 for a bare win.

      It's easy to imagine a better Romney GOTV effort flipping Florida, maybe even Ohio, but that's not enough. He'd have to scare up another 108K Romney voters in VA who stayed at home, and in Colorado another 85K. That seems unlikely, so an improved Romney GOTV operation alone would probably not have changed this election. You'd have to get rid of Obama's GOTV operation, in which case a successful Romney operation might *barely* have flipped this to the Republicans.

      What is striking when you look at these swing state numbers is that we're talking about eight states and less than 20% of the total electoral college here. To win, a Republican has to pick up 79 of those 106 electoral votes. A Democrat has to win 32. It's no wonder the math geeks were favoring Obama so early and consistently. Writing off almost the entire Northeast and California, Republicans have to sweep the three largest swing states to win. Things are going to get tougher on the Republicans. This year, even the Cuban-Americans in Fl favored Obama; within a generation demographic changes could flip Texas to the Democrats, unless the Republicans get their act together with Hispanics.

      So blame Romney's shortcomings as a candidate if you like. Blame his GOTV effort. Blame Karl Rove, Nate Silver, or even the 47%. But don't forget to blame the Southern Strategy. It gave the Republicans a good ride for a few decades, but change is turning it into a strategic millstone around Republicans' necks. Since George H. W. Bush vs. Mike Dukakis there have been six elections, of which the Republicans have won two but *barely*. Even with Obama's economic vulnerabilities, his 332-206 win over Romney eclipses the Republicans' strongest electoral college victory in the last twenty years (286 Bush to 251 Kerry).

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    15. Re:Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just trying to understand Slashdot here. When a corporation like facebook does that kind of data gathering on individuals, that's bad, but when a political party does it, that's good. Am I right?

      No, both are evil. The funny thing is that the weak and pathetic democrats are beating the war-mongering cynical republicans at their own game.

    16. Re:Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those last minute speeches aren't really about swaying voters. It's about getting voters that have chosen you as a candidate stirred up enough to ensure they will go out and vote rather than just stay home and see what happens.

    17. Re:Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a question. What effect did the Marijuana initiative on the Colorado ballot have on voter turnout? Who's party was helped more by that one?

    18. Re:Or... by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      No, it's all amoral. I didn't make any judgement call, I just said its effective, and that's a fact. If it weren't effective, Facebook wouldn't have lots of money, and Obama wouldn't be president.

      So, I never said targeted gathering and application of personal data was good, nor did I say it was bad. I just said it was effective.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    19. Re:Or... by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      Democrats, although moderately I expect. I think it would probably work more the other way, where the presidential election brought out more people likely to approve marijuana legalization rather than the opposite.

      Colorado Republicans are Western Republicans. They're a lot more libertarian than the party nationwide. I went to high school in a Republican part of CO and most folks don't give a crap about marijuana. If they're going to do it, just tax it and regulate it. Only old-timers and extremely religious folks seem to care.

    20. Re:Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are right about the southern strategy. Just think how hopeless it's going to be for the GOP in 2016, when the demographics buries them completely.

      No doubt the solution will be for them to hug Latino Americans just before they demand that they and their family self-deport. That should keep the hard feelings down and convince them to vote GOP. If you think this is not going to be a problem, you didn't listen too closely to the crowd of young racists at the University of Mississippi chanting recently, where the GOP is training its future ambassadors to Latin America.

  4. LOL rednecks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Do they even have "the Internets" in trailer parks, yet? I would think it wouldnn't ve economical to lay down the tubes there.

    1. Re:LOL rednecks by dosius · · Score: 1

      Used to live in a trailer park. Had Road Runner.

      -uso.

      --
      What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    2. Re:LOL rednecks by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Interesting


      Do they even have "the Internets" in trailer parks, yet? I would think it wouldnn't ve economical to lay down the tubes there.

      You might be surprised to learn that your average trailer park superintendent may have more experience running a WiFi mesh network than you do.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re:LOL rednecks by couchslug · · Score: 1

      They do, but the rednecks use them to reinforce their Foxtardliness.

      Yes, White Trash vote GOP. I live among them and your post is no Troll.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    4. Re:LOL rednecks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Used to live in a trailer park. Had Road Runner.

      Tastes like chicken?

  5. Republiclowns by sunspot42 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    I thought these Republican idiots were supposed to be great businessmen and job creators. So how is it the Kenyan socialist communist fascist Marxist Muslim empty chair community organizer ran a campaign that outfoxed and outplayed them at every turn, even without having an entire media empire (Rupert Murdoch) spewing favorable propaganda 24/7 for free?

    You'd almost think these Republican business geniuses were really a bunch of incompetent, thieving rich idiots who couldn't run a successful taco stand without help from their daddy's buddies and generous taxpayer subsidies coming from people who, you know, actually work for a living.

    1. Re:Republiclowns by drakaan · · Score: 1

      ...must...resist...playing...devil's...advocate...

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    2. Re:Republiclowns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fanboi much, Goosestepper?

    3. Re:Republiclowns by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      You can only really judge a man by his results. As much lip service as is given to "captains of industry", it seems like they botched it this time. They had it about as good as they're going to get it. Obama hasn't finished cleaning up the mess they left from before. So he was very vulnerable from a "but how are you doing now" perspective.

      The "captains of industry" failed to sell that. They failed to execute despite blowing a smaller nations debt on the effort.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    4. Re:Republiclowns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mitt's problem is that he actually believed his own BS. As a "business executive" he should indeed have been able to run a brilliant campaign. The problem is, Mitt's "executive experience" was at Bain Capital.

      Bain Capital is not a _real_ company. It doesn't build products or provide services. It is just a massive pump-and-dump and flipping operation. Therefore it makes sense that this isn't the place where somebody would actually hone executive skills. Romney's "business experience", just like his business itself, is a well crafted illusion. Bain Capital is a Potemkin village. Outward appearances suggest it's a real business but all it is is a place where people like Romney can take advantage of legal, fiscal, and moral loopholes to pump money out of legitimate wealth-creating companies.

      After years of working there Mitt had himself convinced that he was a real executive. He wasn't. When faced with the real and challenging task of taking the presidency, there were no shortcuts to be taken, no loopholes to take advantage of. It was a true test of his business skills. And he failed MISERABLY.

    5. Re:Republiclowns by epine · · Score: 1

      You can only really judge a man by his results.

      Don't tell the Christians. For some reason they decided to ignore the exit pole and think for themselves. Or did I get that backwards? Back at the ranch, the Jews were left investing in Bernie Madoff. I think that speaks for itself.

    6. Re:Republiclowns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Christians still believe you are judged by your actions. They just believe that everyone fails. That people need to be forgiven. That God forgives those who seek repentance. (Repentance is an honest attempt to change)

    7. Re:Republiclowns by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I thought these Republican idiots were supposed to be great businessmen and job creators. So how is it the Kenyan socialist communist fascist Marxist Muslim empty chair community organizer ran a campaign that outfoxed and outplayed them at every turn, even without having an entire media empire (Rupert Murdoch) spewing favorable propaganda 24/7 for free?

      Because the Republicans jumbled crazy-ass social conservatism into their mix - Social conservatism which doesn't align with America any more. Ramblings about rape, transvaginal ultrasound, evolution, attacks on science. I'm not going to pick a loony to run my organization, even if he is good at balancing the checkbook.

    8. Re:Republiclowns by sycodon · · Score: 1

      He hasn't even started. He only realized the economy sucked about 10 months ago. Or maybe he only started caring about it 10 months ago.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    9. Re:Republiclowns by blueturffan · · Score: 1

      even without having an entire media empire (Rupert Murdoch) spewing favorable propaganda 24/7 for free?

      You mean ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/MSNBC and all the others weren't spewing favorable propaganda for Obama 24/7? From what I could tell Shepard Smith of Fox News seemed genuinely delighted when they called the election for Obama, so I can't figure out which media empire was allegedly backing Romney...

    10. Re:Republiclowns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought these Republican idiots were supposed to be great businessmen and job creators. So how is it the Kenyan socialist communist fascist Marxist Muslim empty chair community organizer ran a campaign that outfoxed and outplayed them at every turn, even without having an entire media empire (Rupert Murdoch) spewing favorable propaganda 24/7 for free?

      Because the Republicans jumbled crazy-ass social conservatism into their mix - Social conservatism which doesn't align with America any more. Ramblings about rape, transvaginal ultrasound, evolution, attacks on science. I'm not going to pick a loony to run my organization, even if he is good at balancing the checkbook.

      There's a big part of it - I mean seriously, the economy is in the crapper, unemployement is rampant and the jobs that *are* being created are minimum-wage/part-time Walmart jobs (I know not all, but...), so your focus is on? Oh, whether rape is 'legitimate' or not, subjecting women to pointless ultrasounds as 'punishment' (don't think we're so stupid not to see the real motive there), teaching kids that man walked with dinosaurs 3000 years ago, and oh yeah - any woman who uses birth control must be a 'slut', and in general you want to force your religious morals on me. Creating jobs? No, we have no real plan for that. So my choice is between two guys with no real plan, one of whom 'sides' with punishing women for their "lady parts" and eliminating science (because those will help the economy? create jobs? balance the budget?).

    11. Re:Republiclowns by bmo · · Score: 1

      Shepard Smith is the only anchor/talking head at Fox that isn't a complete idiot.

      He's not enough to take the stench off Fox.

      >blaming all news services as biased.

      Reality has a liberal bias. Deal with it.

      --
      BMO

    12. Re:Republiclowns by blueturffan · · Score: 1

      Reality has a liberal bias. Deal with it.

      You must be a lot of fun at parties. Do you ever get invited back anywhere?

    13. Re:Republiclowns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Christians still believe you are judged by your actions.

      LOLNO. Maybe some do, but the outspoken loudmouthed evangelical Christians believe that you are judged by whatever bad happens to you. Because of course you did something to deserve it.

    14. Re:Republiclowns by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 1

      Potemkin village: I like you analysis of Romney and Bain. Makes sense to think of Bain as Pump and Dump, but doesn't that usually mean elevating the stock prices and selling the shares before you collapse it? I thought Bain acted more vampirishly and sucked the blood out and sucked the companies dry of any of their valuable assets and buying whatever they could on unsecured credit and then taking the bankruptcy-walk-o-shame away with pocket-ful of cash and loot. Or did I misread the Tim e magazine article? ;>)

    15. Re:Republiclowns by dbIII · · Score: 1

      transvaginal ultrasound

      Why isn't that the name of a band yet?

    16. Re:Republiclowns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Bain actually used both tactics. Sometimes they would try to inflate the value of the company. Other times they would saddle a company with debt, charge it exorbitant "consulting fees", and let it go into bankruptcy once there was nothing left to loot (dumping the pensions obligations onto taxpayers in the process; I guess the federal government is good for something after all)

      In the end, it's still mostly a financial scheme that is more likely to result in wealth destruction than in wealth creation. And whatever the outcome, very little tangible work gets done.

      For as much as slashdotters like to harp on about "evil Micro$oft", it's still a company that creates real products. Those products help people be more productive, more creative. For all its flaws, millions of people were introduced to computing through Windows. You can easily find men and women who will testify about the good things they were able to do with MS products ("I wrote a novel using Word" or "I keep in touch with my grandma thousands of miles away through MSN Messenger" or whatever)

      I'm pretty sure it would be impossible to find somebody other than the company's owners themselves willing to testify about the great influence Bain Capital had on their lives. Quite the opposite judging by the most recent crop of political ads..

    17. Re:Republiclowns by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      Mitt's problem is that he actually believed his own BS.

      Which BS? The BS before or after he shook the Etch-A-Sketch®, and was that before or after he changed his mind on every topic again? Just want to know which BS he supposedly bought. It was so hard to keep up with which BS he was peddling on what day....

    18. Re:Republiclowns by MyHair · · Score: 1

      Isn't Pussy Riot close enough? But they got thrown in jail for saying words.

    19. Re:Republiclowns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... convinced that he was a real executive.

      As govenor he put his state on a strict budget. Pity he didn't use that skill in his bid for the white house. But everything he offered was just crazy.

    20. Re:Republiclowns by Firetoad · · Score: 0

      But, but, but.... He organized the Olympics!

  6. The real problem is 37,000 GOTV for several states by jbeach · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Obama campaign probably had that many people in Ohio just getting the coffee.

    --
    The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
  7. Must have been God's will. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    After all in the case of legitimate server outage the internet has a way to repair itself

    1. Re:Must have been God's will. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good one lol

    2. Re:Must have been God's will. by John3 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually in situations like this the internet has a way to shut that whole thing down.

      --
      "We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
    3. Re:Must have been God's will. by meta-monkey · · Score: 0

      If I hadn't already posted in this thread I'd be spending my mod points on you, AC...

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    4. Re:Must have been God's will. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Its called castration. But look on the bright side. It will certainly improve Romney's singing skills.

  8. I got tons of Romney calls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In fact the escalation of calls from celebrity callers including gov Ridge urging me to vote Romney continued until minutes before the polls closed at 8pm and I had voted for Gary Johnson hours earlier.

    Romney's loss was a Romney failure, not an IT failure.

    1. Re:I got tons of Romney calls by justdave72 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah, I got so sick of the Romney calls that I put an IVR on my home phone line that prompted to press 1 to talk to a human, and hung up if they didn't dial anything, without ringing my phones or letting them leave voicemail. According to my logs that blocked 8 calls (the callerID on each was either unknown, or did point at a known Republican call center) during the 24 hours leading up to the election.

    2. Re:I got tons of Romney calls by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      I love my Digitone Call Blocker. of course, I was also sick of Obama calls as much as the Romney, they're both lying crook scum bitches of megacorporations

    3. Re:I got tons of Romney calls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree completely. I'm a raging Republican and i can tell you, the real reason Romney lost was that he gives most of his party the heebie jeebies. Even I almost didn't vote for him.

      I felt like this election was like being given the choice to sleep with your mom, or your sister. I begrudgingly voted sister, but damn we all knew it was wrong. (not voting to me is like sleeping with dad.)

      Sick in my heart,
      -Rudy

    4. Re:I got tons of Romney calls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I felt like this election was like being given the choice to sleep with your mom, or your sister. I begrudgingly voted sister, but damn we all knew it was wrong. (not voting to me is like sleeping with dad.)

      You could have voted Libertarian, that's like the slut on the corner who takes all comers for $20 (free market hell yeah!) but at least she's not related. Or Green, the old toothless bag lady who wears recycled rags and rants about cats.

    5. Re:I got tons of Romney calls by lightknight · · Score: 2

      Hmm. I received several phone calls with various scare messages from people on behalf of Romney. All hours after I had voted (neither for Romney, nor Obama; gotta love those write-ins).

      "Obamacare..." -> hang-up. "blah blah blah" -> hang-up.

      Look guys, I've taken a look at the economic 'plans,' and I use that term loosely here, from both of the major candidates, and I am simply not convinced that either will work. Trying to frighten me one way or the other won't work when it's not my brain stem (fight or flight) doing the thinking, but the various higher order parts of my brain normally associated with algebra, calculus, and reasoning. Now if you're telepathic, you'll know exactly what I think of you for having thought so little of me.

      And next time, let's get a better selection of candidates, right? While I am not a member of the Green party (hi guys), I do like seeing them, as well as every other party / candidate that can get at least 4,000 signatures on the ballot. And do not use Facebook for your campaign website, no matter how grass-roots you might want it to be (I'm looking at the you Libertarians right now); you have more than enough techs in your ranks who are willing to throw up a basic Wordpress site for you, go for it. And as for the Democrats / Republicans, I find I don't readily fit into any of your 'issues'; as such, try providing a little more information about your candidates under the "Issues" part of your campaign websites, specifically on things that aren't currently considered up for grabs. Reading about how two candidates, from the major parties, basically agreed (almost copy / paste) on their websites on veteran healthcare issues was incredibly less useful than their party's probably imagined. 1.) I'm not a veteran (or know anyone who is, save from perhaps WWII), and 2.) when you're agreeing with one another, it's not really an issue, is it? "Elect Bob (D) or Jim (R), who both agree that veteran's need more healthcare coverage, and want to implement the same changes." -> not really decisive, is it? "Bob and Jim both like vanilla." Meh.

      See, in either case, the Democrats or Republicans were, for many of these non-presidential races, playing some music only a select few could hear. I mean, I listened to the debate between Maxwell and Corbin from out where I live, and Maxwell used every opportunity to talk about how the topic influenced Education / Teachers. I don't think you understand -> he mentioned it at least a dozen times! I walked away from the debate thinking "Maxwell only gives a f*ck about his base, which appears to be made purely up of educators." I could have sworn that the local population was made up of people with many different kinds of vocations, yet, listening to the man, you might think it was a 40,000 acre commune filled purely with teachers. And the funny part is, Corbin was the seasoned politician, who basically said "I can't do anything, our state is bankrupt," giving Maxwell every opportunity to at least TRY to come up with a different solution. It was so bad, that at one point, Maxwell cited his opponent's recent discovery of some unpaid corporate taxes (something like that) as being a solution for paying for some of the things he wanted to bankroll; OMFG, you just complemented your opponent, admitted that your program is basically unfundable, and that your opponent is necessary to have in office to pay for your projects! It's like saying that you need Ron Paul elected president so that he can clean up the US budget, so that Jill Stein can go on a Green energy funding binge! If you need your opponent elected to the position you want, so that you can afford to do the things you want to do...#^$#*@^$#*&^@!Q!

      The point is, they had an hour to debate things. When you make it clear that you don't give a f*ck what happens so long as your schools get more funding next year, it's super hard to take you seriously. "I don't care if the world burns so long as I get a new bike" is really, really just...terrible. I mean, perhaps I should be

      --
      I am John Hurt.
  9. Quote by cheesecake23 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I forgot to add this great tweet by the author of the final story linked in TFS when I submitted this to Slashdot:

    Long story short: Don't beta-test an election.

    1. Re:Quote by hamburger+lady · · Score: 5, Funny

      now, imagine these guys running FEMA.

      yikes.

      --

      ---
      Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
    2. Re:Quote by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Funny

      One might wonder what would have happened if the Romney campaign had had an experienced business manager with an MBA from a prestigious university leading them.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    3. Re:Quote by TheSpoom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      *thinks back to Hurricane Katrina*

      I can imagine that quite well, actually.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    4. Re:Quote by Nimey · · Score: 2

      Heck of a job, Brownie.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    5. Re:Quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who has to think back to Katrina? See that huge mess in NY/NJ? All those people STILL without power? All the looting and rioting? People dumpster diving because they have no food? FEMA closing their offices due to bad weather? Have you seen any of that??

      And despite the death toll, Chris Matthews is sure grateful for "that storm" because it gave Dear Leader the chance to have a nice photo op and "look Presidential". Yeah...this administration's doing a bang-up job.

      Remember Benghazi!

      I can't believe y'all fell for his lies again.

    6. Re:Quote by DriedClexler · · Score: 3, Funny

      Romney has an MBA and a JD from Harvard and has proven success in business management, having shown consistent ability to move into a business he barely knows, learn the ropes, and implement amazing, efficiency-amplifying reforms that clear out the deadwood, or salvage the remaining valuable assets for more productive enterprises, so it's clear it wasn't Romney's lack of management expertise that was the point of failure.

      *jerk off gesture*

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    7. Re:Quote by hamburger+lady · · Score: 1

      your tears are delicious, loser.

      --

      ---
      Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
    8. Re:Quote by fermion · · Score: 1

      So is this a joke or for real. While most of his contemporaries are billionaires, he merely has a quarter. His success in the olympics was his contact in the government who funneled federal dollars to the event. And the most important job for a bussinesssman is knowing when to let someone else take the meeting because you would flub it. The problem is that,like Bush, Romney just wanted to play president so he could provide some kickbacks to his friends, maybe make a few contacts so he could make the billion he never did. He failed because voter suppression is not as easy as it once was, and because he pissed of the women. There are some significant voter suppression efforts currently under way, so maybe a sane republican can win next time, but that would mean the psycho wing of the tea party would have to be eliminated.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    9. Re:Quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But this is part of the whole GOP modus operandi. They hate government, so every chance they get to strangle it or make it incompetent, they do so. Then they say "Look! We told you! Government is bad and evil, and this is proof!"

      The far political right is obsessed with proving themselves, er, right. They are not above rigging the system to prove the failures they claim are inevitable.

  10. Who prints a 60 page PDF? by John3 · · Score: 2

    The author of the linked story at Business Insider sounds quasi-tech and was a volunteer for the phone calls. He received an email late Monday night with a 60 page PDF of instructions and lists of names to call, and complained that he had to print it at home. Who prints PDF's when they can just view the document on their PC and make the calls, especially on a home inkjet printer?

    It sounds like not only was the development of this tool a disaster but so was implementation at the user end point. If this tech-savvy guy tried to print at home with limited success just imagine what the "regular" Romney supporters were doing (or not doing) when they got the 60 page PDF.

    --
    "We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
    1. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by jandrese · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I imagine your average Romney supporter probably looks something like your average Romney voter. Older, white, and not as well educated, especially about technology. Basically your grandfather. Send your grandfather a 60 page PDF and what is he going to do? He's going to print it out.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    2. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's his problem?

      He's a Romney supporter, printing it out shouldn't be a problem.

    3. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by John3 · · Score: 2

      My dad is 82, and he won't print out more than a page or two because he's too cheap. :)

      But the guy writing the article talked about DDOS and redundancy for the servers so he probably is familiar with the ability to view a PDF (though for some reason he was surprised that he could not print b&w documents with just an HP magenta cartridge).

      --
      "We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
    4. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by Darktan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Who distributes a 60 page PDF when the whole rest of the operation is a web site? If they all needed internet access to use the app, why didn't the web application just give each volunteer their customized list?

      As always, the group of technomorons at the top tell you it's all digital, then give out a PDF of a scan of a fax.

    5. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      He probably knows a lot of big words and works for a very expensive and worthless contracting group. What he does not do is live and breath tech.

      If you want to flip through PDFs that is pretty much the only thing tablets are the absolute best at.

    6. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by Antipater · · Score: 2

      First off, he had to print it, because he wasn't the one making the calls. He was supposed to take the list with him to the polls, cross off people who'd voted, then hand the list off to someone else who would then call the people who hadn't voted yet.

      But assuming that wasn't the case, and he just wanted to print it out: I print pdfs, especially the big ones. I like being able to flip back and forth, I like being able to write notes in the margins, and I like having my reference materials on my desk so my monitor can be used for other things. I realize there are commands to do all these things without printing, but I find them annoying and not an improvement over physical pages. Of the things that seemed to go wrong, failure-to-print wasn't something that struck me as particularly alarming.

      On the other hand, I realize that my affinity for physical paper means that it's my responsibility to keep my printer working, and I'm not going to get mad at someone else if I can't print.

      --
      Everything is better with chainsaws.
    7. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      He could not email to the people at the polls?
      Any idea what year this is grandpa?

    8. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by Jon_S · · Score: 1

      Actually, he said only his magenta cartridge was empty - his black cartridge had ink, but the HP printer refused to print because there was one empty cartridge. Note, the PDF was B/W.

    9. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by fm6 · · Score: 2

      Business Insider is pretty bogus site. I have to wonder of if they even asked for Ekdahl's permission to copy his blog. Which is here:

      http://ace.mu.nu/archives/334783.php

    10. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by HungWeiLo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The average elderly Romney voter would go to the nearest public library, ask for help from the library staff, print out the PDF for free, then vote against their local library levy.

      --
      There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
    11. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by John3 · · Score: 1

      Doh...I need to read more carefully.

      --
      "We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
    12. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      No, that's something that should be printed out (unless you have a tablet with specific software), because it needed to be brought to the polls. The guy was a poll watcher, a representative from the campaign, present at a specific polling place to watch for shenanigans and collect information for the campaign. The fact that you voted is public record. So, a poll watcher gets a "strike list" from campaign HQ that basically says "watch for when these likely voters vote." You print that out and taking it to the polling place. When Bill Smith votes, you strike Bill Smith's name off your list. Every so often during the day, a runner takes your list off to the HQ and the phone bank workers start calling the people who haven't voted yet to ask them to get their butts to the polls.

      Now, an electronic strike list would be a great idea. Instead of a printed 60 page packet, have an tablet with custom software that, as soon as Bill Smith signs the register that he voted, the campaign worker clicks a check next to Bill's name on his tablet, and the database is immediately updated back at HQ.

      So, the guy was not an idiot to print his 60 page PDF. You have to. But Romney's campaign failed by waiting until the last minute to email this stuff to the ground team.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    13. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by Antipater · · Score: 1

      No, he could not "email to the people at the polls", young whippersnapper. Try reading my post, or TFA, again, and you might understand why. I say "might", because your reading comprehension hasn't seemed to be up to par thus far. Never hurts to keep practicing, though.

      --
      Everything is better with chainsaws.
    14. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by edjs · · Score: 1

      The author was volunteering as a poll-watcher, so needed a physical list to bring to the polling place, where even having somewhere to sit isn't a given. It does seem an ideal situation for doing on a tablet, if one happens to have one.

    15. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by John3 · · Score: 1

      I didn't RTFA article carefully enough...thanks for posting this. If I had mod points I'd mod it up, but then they'd remove my post anyway. :)

      --
      "We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
    16. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice ageism there. You call african-americans darkies, too?

    17. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Send your grandfather a 60 page PDF and what is he going to do?

      Stick it on the Kindle.

    18. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by pepty · · Score: 1

      Who prints PDF's when they can just view the document on their PC and make the calls,

      He was supposed to bring the document with him to the polls (along with the poll checker certificate they did not tell him he needed to get) where he would be all day keeping track of who had voted and reporting in. If he didn't print it out he would need a portable device to view it at the polls. Great if you have a tablet, but probably a pain if you have a smartphone and have to keep switching between a PDF reader and the ORCA website they were supposed to use to report who voted.

    19. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason you print it out rather than sit there with a computer in front of you is so you can simply and easily cross people off once you have spone to them. A pen and papr is by far the best way to do this.

    20. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Hm. I was kind of thinking the same thing when I had an epiphany of sorts...

      Copyright is so important that the tools to easily mark off a name on a list in a PDF just are not there. If the list is printed, a marker, pencil, or pen works just fine.

      Go ahead and tell me that if you do not use Adobe Reader, there are dozens of PDF tools to do it. I am not aware of any and I am fairly tech savvy. I just opened Adobe Reader and did not find any such tools...

      So yeah, OF COURSE they printed it out. It is the only way to mark off the names. Utter PDF fail.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    21. Re:Who prints a 60 page PDF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Who prints PDF's when they can just view the document on their PC and make the calls, especially on a home inkjet printer?"

      Somebody whose assignment is to go to his local precinct and check those likely Romney voters off his list as they voted, and notify the phone bank to talk the others who didn't come in.

      He was going to be there all day as a vote counter. He wasn't sitting in his house making phone calls.

      You don't understand GOTV

  11. I worked on Romney's IT team by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I worked on Romney's IT team.

    Out of the blue one day, we were told to build a 30-foot stage in the server room. Gathered the guys, and we built that 30-foot stage, not knowing what it was for. Just days later, all three shifts were told to assemble in the IT server room.

    A group of people walked out on that stage, and told us that the plant is now closed, and all of you are fired. I looked both ways, I looked at the crowd, and we all just lost our jobs. We donâ(TM)t have an income.

    Mitt Romney made over a hundred million dollars by shutting down our IT infrastructure, and devastated our lives.

    Turns out that when we built that stage, it was like building my own coffin. And it just made me sick.

    SO GLAD THIS ELECTION'S OVER

    1. Re:I worked on Romney's IT team by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gathered the guys, and we built that 30-foot stage

      Must have really pissed you off when Romney stepped on to the stage and announced that he built it.

    2. Re:I worked on Romney's IT team by TheSpoom · · Score: 2

      Man, your server room has a high ceiling.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    3. Re:I worked on Romney's IT team by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Must have pissed him off even more when Obama stopped by to tell him that he didn't really build that stage.

    4. Re:I worked on Romney's IT team by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Must have pissed you off when Romney lost.

      Go read that Obama quote again, because he said nothing like what you said. Leaving out words and attacking strawmen is not getting Republicans elected. You might want to make a note of that.

    5. Re:I worked on Romney's IT team by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Leaving out words and attacking strawmen is not getting Republicans elected.

      But promising money to all the people who don't want to work gets Democrats elected.

      Some tactics just don't work on some people. In this case, the prospect of job creation certainly didn't appeal to the majority of the nation, who instead wanted the road to personal success to be paved by others.

    6. Re:I worked on Romney's IT team by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didn't build that! Your customers paid for that, so you should share your profits with your customers! And that's taxable income for each customer...

  12. "epic failure" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please stop.

  13. The Other Side Has Its Failures by Revotron · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Four times in four days, I had Democratic canvassers knock at my door and pester me about whether I voted yet. I told them yes, I voted absentee, so my choices have already been made, thanks for stopping by, have a great day, good luck, etc.

    Two of the four tried to unload pamphlet after pamphlet on me after I clearly said "Already voted, thanks for asking, our ballots are cast." By the fourth day, I was quite irked.

    How about we ditch the annoying door-to-door crap and stick to good old fashioned email spam? You can buy a precompiled list of my political viewpoints, financial status, and email addresses from ${SOCIAL_NETWORK} for pennies on the dollar. That way I can just filter and delete what I don't want to read instead of having to stand at my door trying to talk over some rambling campaign volunteer and push their papers right back at them.

    1. Re:The Other Side Has Its Failures by Revotron · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I said "whether I voted yet" when I meant to say "whether I was planning to vote." Please take note of this change for all future responses.

      Sincerely, The Management

    2. Re:The Other Side Has Its Failures by rk · · Score: 1

      How about we ditch the annoying door-to-door crap and stick to good old fashioned email spam?

      Um, how old are you exactly? ;-)

    3. Re:The Other Side Has Its Failures by Revotron · · Score: 1

      Old enough to employ hyperbole in my rhetoric. ;)

    4. Re:The Other Side Has Its Failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many months ago, back during the primaries, a guy came to my door telling me about the wonders of voting for obama. I pointed out that 1)I was a republican and actually knew obama's record and 2)I was living in a no soliciting communitee. The first point we could argue about but the second made him stopping by my door against the law. His response was 'Oh, its all right. I'm a Democrate.'

    5. Re:The Other Side Has Its Failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Oh, its all right. I'm a Democrate.'

      Yeah, you should really be relieved. He could have been a thief, or a mugger, or a beggar, or a murderer... Oh, wait. Well, at least he wasn't a murderer!

    6. Re:The Other Side Has Its Failures by Jon_S · · Score: 4, Informative

      Political canvassing can not be restricted under anti-solicitation rules.

      Random google search reference: http://www.virginianewmajority.org/index.php/voter-resources/canvasser-rights

    7. Re:The Other Side Has Its Failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, I knocked doors for Obama - it works. And there wasn't a GOP volunteer in sight.

    8. Re:The Other Side Has Its Failures by fm6 · · Score: 1

      So you got spammed. Spammers do not consider overkill a failure.

    9. Re:The Other Side Has Its Failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Political canvassing can not be restricted under anti-solicitation rules.

      Random google search reference: http://www.virginianewmajority.org/index.php/voter-resources/canvasser-rights

      Fair enough, but trespassing is trespassing. If you're on my property without permission or judicial authority you best know how to run real quick.

    10. Re:The Other Side Has Its Failures by pepty · · Score: 1

      Political canvassing can not be restricted under anti-solicitation rules.

      Random google search reference: http://www.virginianewmajority.org/index.php/voter-resources/canvasser-rights

      I spent some time doing GOTV the weekend before the election. We can be restricted by

      -you never removing any of the door hangers on your doorknob

      -Angry pit bulls. Leave front door open and only a flimsy screen door closed for best effect.

      -voting by mail ASAP.

      The last one is really the best. It should get you off the call and door to door lists for all of the (competent) campaigns.

  14. Conservatives bad at High tech? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1, Troll

    Conservatives and Oldsters bad with technology? Who would have ever expected that?

    1. Re:Conservatives bad at High tech? by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Funny

      I don't know, I think Republicans, reknowned for their respect for nerds, are capable of producing useful, eye catching, state of the art, web sites when they try: http://unskewedpolls.com/

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    2. Re:Conservatives bad at High tech? by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Did you see what that asshole said about Nate Silver?

      He could not refute his numbers so he attacked him personally. Basically picked on him like the high school bully he used to be.

      This is what is wrong with the GOP. At this rate we at least won't have to worry about them much longer. The old white bigot demographic is dying out.

    3. Re:Conservatives bad at High tech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdotters whoring karma by making obvious statements that comfortably confirm the uncritically accepted ideologies of other Slashdotters? Who would have ever expected that?

    4. Re:Conservatives bad at High tech? by systemidx · · Score: 1

      I don't know, I think Republicans, reknowned for their respect for nerds, are capable of producing useful, eye catching, state of the art, web sites when they try: http://unskewedpolls.com/

      Haha. A favorite site listed at the bottom of that website is a link to Rush Limbaugh's site. I guess the thinking is if they make a site look as shitty as drudge report, that it must be that much more credible.

    5. Re:Conservatives bad at High tech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe next time the Republicans can have people they respect to do all their IT.

      Football players and NASCAR drivers.

    6. Re:Conservatives bad at High tech? by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I did, he did however retract the comments and apologized for them. It sounds like he just got caught up in election hysteria: http://www.examiner.com/article/regarding-my-comments-about-nate-silver-s-appearance?cid=db_articles

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    7. Re:Conservatives bad at High tech? by utkonos · · Score: 1

      Here. There's a phone call for you. 1996 wants their html back.

    8. Re:Conservatives bad at High tech? by Swampash · · Score: 1

      He basically called Silver a nerd faggot. That's not getting caught up in election hysteria, that's bigotry.

  15. Excuses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Republicans are quick to offer a plethora of options in response to any problem as long as none of them address the problem. They'll run with the flavor of the week as the absolute truth until too many people learn why it's bs and they change the narrative before too many people get wise and a herd immunity develops.
    They'll have a potential answer and say it's the absolute eternal truth and it will turn out to be total crap and 4-8 weeks later there will be a completely different absolute and eternal truth to answer the same problem (for a while). See tort reform. See all of their nominees taking the leader position and being fully supported (for a while) in the dumbest game of 'hot potato'. The only way they can ever stick with an answer is when they can't think of one to replace it.

    After we find out this is bs, you'll see 20 more excuses for why Mitt Romney didn't win and none of them will be simply because more Americans didn't want him.
    BTW, update your spam filters with "Romney" until at least the next campaign season.

  16. It wasn't even close by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The margins are alot higher than the Republicans want to admit...this was a first class ass whooping.

    1. Re:It wasn't even close by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2


      The margins are alot higher than the Republicans want to admit...this was a first class ass whooping.

      You do realize that the combined margins of all the swing states is about 450K votes, right? That's not a huge percentage.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:It wasn't even close by geekoid · · Score: 1

      And that's what percentage?
      And Swing states were nearly as relevant as people had thought.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:It wasn't even close by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      And that's what percentage?

      4/10ths of 1%.

      And Swing states were nearly as relevant as people had thought.

      Not sure what this means ... but Romney had to win them all to just tie up the EC (and hope to win in the territories) but nobody who knows how to do math expected that he would.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    4. Re:It wasn't even close by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the combined margins of all the swing states is about 450K votes, right?

      Wrong it is actually more like 700K.

    5. Re:It wasn't even close by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually there are TONS of outstanding votes that have not been counted... Probably something like 8 million more

    6. Re:It wasn't even close by fm6 · · Score: 1

      I voted for the O guy, and I'm positively relieved that he won. But I don't share you smug assessment. If the popular vote separation is more than 3 or 4 points, I'll eat my hat. If you get outside the liberal echo chamber, you'll see a strong conservative side to the electorate. It's just very poorly led.

    7. Re:It wasn't even close by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama won Ohio by 2%, Virginia by 3%, Colorado by 4%, and each of Pennsylvania, Nevada, and Wisconsin by 6% and Iowa by 7%. Sorry but it wasn't close. Those margins are pretty comfortable for Obama and the Democrats.

    8. Re:It wasn't even close by utkonos · · Score: 1

      It's not that it's poorly led. The message itself scares the crap out of anyone who is young or female or not white.

    9. Re:It wasn't even close by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      30% of us middle age white boys were scared shitless too!

    10. Re:It wasn't even close by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Simply not true. All three groups do tend to support Obama, but not exclusively. I think something like 40% of women voted for Romney. Many of the pissed-off Romney volunteers quoted in TFAs are apparently quite young, and I've seen many others. Non-whites are more solidly pro-Obama (having so many conspicuous racists on one side and a black candidate on the other will do that) but even there you see some solid pro Romney people.

      I live in Portland, OR, where we liberals in the city are thoroughly detested by the right wingers in the surrounding counties. (Oregon is mostly rural — classic Romney territory.) My neighbors celebrated Obama's victory by running whooping through the streets, but the local news discussions forums were full of local TPers proclaiming the Downfall of America.

      The scary people are not Romney and his cadre. They're just capitalizing on a really scary trend in a big segment of American society.

    11. Re:It wasn't even close by utkonos · · Score: 1

      I'm glad you live in a generally enlightened place where Obama's winning was treated with the same type of celebration that a soccer team winning would be. Unfortunately, here in the south Republicans showed their true face and their true feelings in places like Ole Miss and elsewhere when the election results were out. Racism and bigotry have finally destroyed the Republican party.

    12. Re:It wasn't even close by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Ironically, George Romney's support for civil rights had a lot to do with him never getting his party's nomination. He actually walked out of the 1964 GOP convention (accompanied by his son Mitt) over the issue.

      I'd feel better about living in a liberal city if it weren't surrounded by hard-right types. I moved here partly so I could live in a city that was designed for people, not cars, and yet Portland's much vaunted people-oriented infrastructure is the source of much condemnation by our neighbors, who consider it yet another "socialist" boondoggle.

      And the racist element is there too. We have most of the African-Americans in the region, and one argument against expanding mass transit is that it makes surrounding communities more accessible to "criminal elements" — a pretty obvious code word. I'm sometimes amused at the claim that burglars are schelping their swag home on the light rail, until I remember what a bigoted mindset this weirdness demonstrates.

  17. Voter Suppression! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This must be the voter suppression Karl Rove was talking about...

  18. Re:LOL urbanites by sitarlo · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm always amazed at how *intolerant* leftists can be. I live in a rural "redneck" community and we have very little crime, pollution, racism and unemployment here. Our schools are ranked some of the highest in the nation and just about everyone I know graduated college. Maybe we're not as dumb as the stereotype you submit to says we are.

  19. Cybergate by wcrowe · · Score: 2

    Hmmm. That gives me an idea. Perhaps the next "Watergate" will involve cyber warfare.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
  20. Must not have been all that bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They still got quite close (within 2.5 million or so votes) to Obama's numbers. McCain could only wish to be so lucky! His gap was something like 5x that of Romney.

  21. that's why ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There was a very republican looking dude hanging around my polling place, conspicuously looking over the shoulders of the poll-worker ladies at the A-G, H-K ... etc desks where you check in to get your ballot. He was carrying an iPad and routinely cursing under his breath and saying "the server died again"! I knew he couldn't be a real poll worker because our ballots were all paper, read by a 70's-era multiple-choice standardized test reader thing. Not a network cable or a computer in sight.

    That being said, this smacks to me of project managers run amok.
    Let me get this straight: your strategy to win the election is to go around *on election day* and figure out who is voting and who isn't and then presumably call the people who haven't voted individually and make sure they vote.

    Yeah. That sounds like a winner to me.

    You could of course ... instead, try not running a billionare who made his money primarily by inheriting it and dismantling companies by outsourcing jobs to China. You could try running on a platform that doesn't shout from the mountain tops: "HALF OF AMERICA ARE ASSHOLE BUMS!" ... you could try selling your IDEAS rather than just fearmongering and pandering.

    But hey! you know ... whatever works dude.

    Oh wait ... that doesn't work. Here's hoping the Republican strategy changes from here on out.
    For all of us, baby.

  22. Are there truly any IT failures? by sackofdonuts · · Score: 2

    Maybe the people chosen to implement the IT for Project Orca really didn't want Romney to be president? It takes a village.

  23. Rich businessman != good manager by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've had painful experience of this on more than one job. Something to consider the next time someone runs with the pitch "I have a lot of money, so I know how to run the country". Some people are rich through connections, looting, or luck.

    1. Re:Rich businessman != good manager by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      And sometimes they get rich through connections and looting and luck like Romney.

    2. Re:Rich businessman != good manager by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Try changing 'some' to 'most'. Truly self-made multi-millionaires are rarer than hens' teeth.

      Every time the press wants to tout a self-made man, I've looked into his background, and without fail I found at least a high-middle class background; it's a lot easier to take a risk if failure doesn't mean complete destitution.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    3. Re:Rich businessman != good manager by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to forget that strategies that made them rich don't necessarily work out the same way for the rest of the country.

    4. Re:Rich businessman != good manager by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Luck is definitely a factor. The true self-made millionaires do earn their money, but for every one of them there were 50 others who were just as smart and hard-working and creative, but who lost it all. We just hear about the ones who made it.

      Can you be dumb and be a self-made millionaire? Of course not!
      Is being as smart/creative/entrepreneurial as Zuckerberg or Gates or Brin likely to make you a millionaire? No.

      If you want to be a self-made millionaire, you have to start out by being really smart/good, and then be really lucky as well. Sure, you don't have to be as lucky as if your strategy is to just buy lottery tickets, but your odds are still poor. And your strategy is certainly going to involve being bankrolled by other people's money.

  24. Re:LOL urbanites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    I'm a leftist? That's news to me since I solely vote Constitution Party. Nothing more funny, though, than someone whining about stereotypes and yet jumping to stereotypical conclusions themselves.

    Also, if your area is so great why don't you actually name it rather than being vague? Sounds like someone's bullshitting.

  25. Taking self destructive behavior to a new art. by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 2

    The conservative Republicans - they've done it. Dozens of knee-slapping gaffes. Ideas that *laugh* in the face of tedious concepts like reality. Well done, fellows. Well done.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  26. Incompatible narratives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    On the one hand, we have this story claiming that a failed get-out-the-vote effort was a significant factor in Romney's defeat. On the other, we have yesterday's story about how Nate Silver's statistical analysis of pre-election polls accurately predicted the outcome in all fifty states. If the first is true, then Silver's predictions were only accidentally correct, beating astronomical odds; or else Nate has somehow factored Republican IT failures into his statistical models. Neither seems plausible, so I don't believe the Orca troubles were actually very important.

    1. Re:Incompatible narratives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other, we have yesterday's story about how Nate Silver's statistical analysis of pre-election polls accurately predicted the outcome in all fifty states

      Nate updated his analysis as polls came in all the way up to election day, so if Republican IT failures caused a change in the polls, then Nate factored them in.

    2. Re:Incompatible narratives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or Nate Silver's analysis was based on polling data that accurately reflected the result of the IT failures.

    3. Re:Incompatible narratives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really, Nate Silver model was still depended on data that is designed to only look at 'likely voters' GOTV focus on changing unlikely voters into likely voters.

      Remeber the US has a contemptuously low voter turn out rate for a western democracy.

  27. That's not how it worked... by sirwired · · Score: 1

    The 60-page printout was not a list of "people to call"; it was a voter list to be used for check-offs at a polling place (not a home) if the app didn't work. The campaign is supposed to use the check-off information to generate call lists that get issued to local campaign offices, but the poll worker doesn't deal with any of that.

  28. Re:LOL urbanites by Cwix · · Score: 1

    Turn on Honey Boo Boo.

    BLAM! You lost that argument.

    --
    You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
  29. Re:LOL urbanites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm always amazed at how *intolerant* leftists can be. I live in a rural "redneck" community and we have very little crime, pollution, racism and unemployment here. Our schools are ranked some of the highest in the nation and just about everyone I know graduated college. Maybe we're not as dumb as the stereotype you submit to says we are.

    Crime, education, unemployment, etc is markedy worse in smaller communities (with the exception of Detroit). So you might live in an exception, then again you might live in a fantasy too.

  30. Re:LOL urbanites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe we're not as dumb as the stereotype you submit to says we are.

    Or, more likely, you're mislabeling the community as "redneck" when it's really just "not densely populated".

  31. Re:LOL urbanites by rubycodez · · Score: 0

    "scratch a liberal and find a closet aristocrat" -- Frank Herbert

  32. Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ah so this is the latest fairy dust justification they've found as to why Republicans lost. Blame it on IT.

    Just more fucking nonsense.

    Modern conservatives really, REALLY can't handle having their entire worldview be shattered by reality, especially the reality that Obama was not an Evil Commie Kenyan and was not ruining "their" country like they pretended. Cognitive dissonance fueled by self delusion, but the tank is on empty now. Liars and charlatans are trying to cover their deception by blaming anything and everything to see what sticks, what allows the 'smart' guys in the party stick around with minimal guilt of hypocrisy.

    Cheers.

    1. Re:Nonsense by fm6 · · Score: 1

      I share your dismay at the reality-phobic right. The fact remains that their guy came very close to winning this thing. The sad truth is that a lot voters like their flavor of koolaid, and a better-run campaign could have taken some of those swing states.

    2. Re:Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think of it. Both sides as I understand, spent about $1 billion each. So the repubs cannot blame a lack of money, or a lack of resources of any kind. They cannot blame a lack of time to plan. Indeed every excuse as to why the political right bumbled an IT system is illogical and negated by the fact that their opponents were successful with the same factors.

      Now consider that one of the election planks the repubs ran on, is their business acumen, their ability to get things done "correctly" and efficiently. In short, to achieve in a businesslike manner.

      Now how does this square with the reported problems with Project Orca?

    3. Re:Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's Evil Socialist Kenyan. Try to keep up.

      Cheers.

      jk

  33. Re:LOL urbanites by geekoid · · Score: 0

    Nazi Germany could say the same thing.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  34. Democrat smugness by judoguy · · Score: 1
    All the comments here about how all Republican supporters are old, out of touch dumbasses are a little too smug.

    1. Many, many eligible voters didn't vote at all. For anyone.

    2. Romney still got only a few percentage points less than Obama in the popular vote.

    3. Many, many voters are as dumb as mud no matter who they voted for.

    3. Ron Paul would have had the enthusiastic support of many of the type of young tech savvy folks that Obama has working for him but the “real” Republicans, and Democrats for that matter, are terrified of him. The Republican power mongers are just that, more interested in power than their supposed ideology.

    --
    Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    1. Re:Democrat smugness by GoogleShill · · Score: 2

      I think Ron Paul's social policies would completely drive away the young, tech-savvy crowd. He's part of the anti-gay, anti-immigrant, pro-life, global-warming-is-good, Christian, right-wing propaganda machine known as the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons

    2. Re:Democrat smugness by blade8086 · · Score: 1

      Oooh a protectionist racket and trade union for the rich!

  35. Romney Bashers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see all of these Romney bashing "IT" people here on Slashdot and have to wonder what they will be bashing in 3 years while they are living in their parents basement playing video games because there are less jobs available and they can't find one. I truly hope I am wrong, but I do not have much confidence in 4 more years of Obama, considering I look back at the last 4 years and see absolutely no improvement.

    1. Re:Romney Bashers by GoogleShill · · Score: 1

      If you don't see it, then either you're blind, or you choose to get your information from unreliable sources. FACT: The deficit and unemployment rate have gone down steadily since Obama took office, except for minor bumps.

      So yes, there is good reason to bash Romney... He wanted to reinstate the same Bush policies which put our country into this mess to begin with.

    2. Re:Romney Bashers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you need to learn how they calculate unemployment. The reason the numbers are down is because those people have run out of unemployment benefits and given up trying to go through the "employment office" to find work. In reality the jobs that have been "created" are easily countered by the jobs that have been lost due to layoffs and business closings. That is a FACT. The deficit has risen every year of Mr. Obama's presidency at a higher rate than ever before. That is also a FACT.
      The "He wants to reinstate the same Bush policies...." crap is nothing more than talking points from the Obama campaign.
      One of the things I disliked the most about this election season was that none of the candidates wanted to tell you why you should vote for them. They ALL spent all their ad time saying why you shouldn't vote for the other guy. In most cases, they use clips of statements out of context to make it look like the other guy said something totally different than they actually said. Sadly, these ads were the only thing many people based their voting decisions on.

  36. Anything but the policies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    First self recriminations have all had to do with "we didn't spin things the right way"; the second round was "if we had just gotten the pro-rape candidates to shut their mouths", and now it's the failure of technology. Anything but the actual substantive policies they've been writing, legislating, and endorsing. Early on they had this plan to only talk about the economy, but in reality, in their governance there was @#$@ all to do about the economy so they tried to legislate sex, women's reproductive systems and choices, etc. Because those are the things that actually turn them on. The republicans are torn between their beliefs and the the things the country will tolerate in governance.

    Obama has been no prince. Weak leadership; neoliberal reflexes, complete kiss-up to the military industrial system (drone killings in yemen go largely unreported just hours after his victory), nevertheless, the republicans provided a policy vision that was completely repugnant outside of the rural white south and white ranch west, and places sympathetic to them.

    The fact is, technological glitches or not, pretty much everyone who wanted to got to the polls and voted; there was little more GOTV either side could do, and given that the only thing that makes a difference is policy, policy, policy, not servers. Republicans you need to rethink your principles not your spin and not your software.

  37. The technology that burned the GOP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...is Robo-calling. In the 3 week before election I was getting more than a dozen republican robo-calls per day (I'm in Virginia, a so-called battle ground state with a tight race). Nothing says "You aren't worth my time, peasant" like a robo-call. By contrast I didn't get a single robo-call from democrats.

  38. its a party by nimbius · · Score: 1

    that is basically willing to blame anything and anyone for their failure to secure a presidential victory. it is to politics as a petulant spoiled child is to a classroom.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  39. Blaming it on IT.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was their message, not IT that caused them to loose the election.
    Very few people that I know wanted to vote for an antagonistic, arrogant, insensitive man who blatantly accused 47% of the electorate of being lazy, in-effectual fools that wanted to live off of the government.
    He was his own worst enemy and thank God that he did not get elected.
    Otherwise we would all be working for the communist chinese for 60 cents an hour in a few years...

  40. Organizational ability by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

    My thought: the Republicans say that they, with their business backgrounds, are so much better at running organizations that they ought to be given control of the country so they can run it right. Well, if this is an example of how organizations work when the GOP are running them, do we really want the entire country run this way?

    1. Re:Organizational ability by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Yeah, imagine the disaster if the Republicans were in charge of the Benghazi embassy's security...

    2. Re:Organizational ability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you referring to what would have been their knee jerk military action against Libya after the same security failings occurred?

    3. Re:Organizational ability by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Actually they were; they voted against increased security budgets.

      But then again, since you sound like a parrot left next to a radio tuned to Rush, I don't think you will go look into the facts.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  41. orca == fail whale? by sjames · · Score: 2

    n/t

  42. Romney voters and stages of grief by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

    The first few days were shock because they were so immersed in their Potemkin world view they had no clue they were going to lose. The, it turned into anger at all the "idiots" who voted for Obama. Now, they've started an orchestrated denial campaign coming up with all sorts of REAL reasons they lost. I'm sure this stage will rapidly devolve into conspiracy theories.

    I'm on a sports forum filled with Republicans and they've been going through all these stages. I haven't gloated, but I point out all their flawed arguments (on gas prices and the so-called Obama Dow dip on Wednesday) and I've probably been ignore listed by 10 people in about 2-3 days.

    He lost, get over it.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  43. Serious denial by bmo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Republicans are blaming everyone else but themselves. They've gone as far as to blame blacks for voting for the party that doesn't have candidates that publish books claiming that slavery was a "blessing in disguise."

    Romney lost because:

    1. He's slimy. He was an Etch-A-Sketch candidate.
    2. Rather than court the independents that could have won the election for him, he courted the fringe. He picked that lunatic Ryan for VP.
    3. He thought he was using the neocons. Wrong. The neocons used him. They were going to glom on to anyone who won the primaries and anyone paying attention saw this.
    4. Because of #1, nobody could trust him, not even his fellow Republicans and certainly not Roger Ailes. Remember how Fox tried to hilight everyone except him before the primaries were done and then had to reluctantly back him after?
    5. Not even the Mormons trusted him.
    6. He even lost his hometown of Belmont MA, which is full of rich WASPs just like him.

    People who know him didn't trust him. It showed.

    Combine that with the utter vile rhetoric coming from GOP the last 4 years, is it any surprise that everyone with two brain cells to rub together disliked him far more than they did Obama?

    Out of all the candidates that were backed by Roger Ailes' SuperPac, none won. Just look at the clown show that the primaries were, and the GOP picked a clown as a result.

    Introspection is required. Until then, it's going to be a long cold winter of discontent for the GOP.

    --
    BMO

    1. Re:Serious denial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looking at the Republican candidates since Ike, I think Romney was the best they had.

    2. Re:Serious denial by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Democrats promise handouts. The country has more takers than makers: Game Over. Maybe Republicans should be blamed for failing to recognize that the USA is done, but it's a bitter fate to accept. Of course, maybe the plan was to lose. Whenever there was a risk of Romney pulling ahead some minor Republican character would conveniently pop up and push the rape button. That Romney, such a prankster, pretending to run for office!

    3. Re:Serious denial by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      The country has more takers than makers

      Wrong. Yes, the participation rate is the lowest it has been since WWII, but it is still the majority of adults in the country. 63% still participate. Until that number drops below 50%, you're wrong.

    4. Re:Serious denial by Swampash · · Score: 1

      The Republican Party lost Massachusetts (where Romney lives), Michigan (Romney's home state and where his daddy was Governor), and Wisconsin (Paul Ryan's home state).

      The people who know the Republican candidates best don't want them elected.

    5. Re:Serious denial by jahudabudy · · Score: 1

      Democrats promise handouts. The country has more takers than makers: Game Over. Maybe Republicans should be blamed for failing to recognize that the USA is done, but it's a bitter fate to accept.

      It's exactly shit like this that is eating the Republican party alive, from the inside out. "Over half of my fellow Americans are greedy lazy assholes (and not True Americans). I hate the public so much. If only they'd elect me, I'd make them pay!"

      --
      ...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
  44. Corporate vs. Open Source communities by WinstonWolfIT · · Score: 1

    This is pure speculation, but I can see the Linux open source crowd fitting the Democrat infrastructure, and the Windows corporate crowd on the Republican side. If you want your tech problems solved sooner and under budget, get the old-timer with a beard in jeans, and you too could be President.

    1. Re:Corporate vs. Open Source communities by Plombo · · Score: 1

      It's much more likely that IT for both sides was handled by the "Windows corporate crowd".

    2. Re:Corporate vs. Open Source communities by ShoulderOfOrion · · Score: 1

      Long-time Gentoo user here, hardcore fiscal conservative / social moderate / small government guy. The Republicans need folks like me and John Ekdahl, but they don't want us. I love this last part from John's blog in TFA:

      The bitter irony of this entire endeavor was that a supposedly small government candidate gutted the local structure of GOTV efforts in favor of a centralized, faceless organization in a far off place (in this case, their Boston headquarters). Wrap your head around that.

      Exactly why I left the Republican party and became an independent 20 years ago. They say they want less government, but what they really want is more centralized control their way. I have to hand it to the Democrats, at least they understand and value the importance of local politics and grass-root efforts during an election; waiting until after the election to throw their volunteers under the Big Government bus. The Republicans just mow them down from the start.

  45. Romney wanted to dissolve FEMA by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 3, Informative
    re: now, imagine these guys running FEMA.
    .

    Don't have to. Romney promised that he was going to get rid of FEMA once he got elected. That phrase certainly haunted him this last week prior to election day as Sandy's aftermath led almost all reporters to keep asking Romney about his FEMA comments. (!)

    :>)

    1. Re:Romney wanted to dissolve FEMA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And considering how botched the response by FEMA to Sandy was, I think Romney should have been praised for that position.

      But wait, you didn't hear about the botched FEMA response, did you? Well, you did, if you read Slashdot, since they've reported on aspects of it. Hell, I think the most recent example is still on the front page.

      But somehow, people still don't think of Sandy as "Obama's Katrina" despite it actually being far WORSE.

      And people here still have the gall to say there's no media bias.

    2. Re:Romney wanted to dissolve FEMA by hamburger+lady · · Score: 1

      apparently you're watching some real doom porn coverage or something. out here in NYC things aren't half as bad as your whinging makes it sound.

      it's hard to find gas, but that's about it. but yeah, totes worse than katrina. today the bus was 5 minutes late!

      --

      ---
      Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
    3. Re:Romney wanted to dissolve FEMA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you high?

      Or are you just that stupid?

  46. Another excuse for why Romney lost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now it's an IT melt down. In the last three days we've heard how the Republicans failed to get their message out to women, blacks and Hispanics, and/or it was all the fault of "Sandy", to improper vote counts.
    Perhaps it's because people did hear their message and saw the old Ryandian "slick marketing speech type" spell of "tax cuts for the wealthy" and "deregulate" big business for what it is: A flawed policy that even Greenspan himself said was a colossal failure.

  47. A list of things to blame. by bmo · · Score: 3, Funny

    From elsewhere:

    mrshowrules [TotalFark] 2012-10-30 12:44:56 PM

    List of People Conspiring Against the GOP, and therefore, America
    (LOPCATGOPATA for short):

    Liberals, Democrats, Socialists, Community Organizers, Geologists, Biologists, Meteorologists, Climatologists, Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Satan, ABC, NBC, CNN, CBS, PBS, All of cable news except FNC, The New York Times, The LA Times, The Washington Post, The Associated Press, Reuters, BBC, The Guardian, Black People, Mexicans, Human Rights Activists, SCOTUS, Europe, Movie Industry, Television Industry, Environmentalists, ACLU, The United Nations, Labor Unions, Colleges, Teachers (including kindergarten teachers), Professors, ACORN, National Endowment for the Arts, Gays, Judges, NPR, Paleontologists, Astrophysicists, Museums (*except Creationism Museum), WHO, WTO, Inflated tires, The Honolulu Advertiser, The Star Bulletin, Teletubbies, Sponge Bob and Patrick, Nobel Prize Committee, US Census Bureau, NOAA, Sesame Street, Comic Books, Little Green Footballs, Video Games, The Bible, CBO, Bruce Springsteen, Pennies, The Theory of Relativity, Comedy Central, Young People, whatever the hell a Justin Beiber is, Small Business Owners, Math, CPAC, Navy SEALs, The Economist, The Muppets, Iowa Republicans, Low-Flow Toilets, Breast Cancer Screenings, Chrysler, Clint Eastwood., Robert Deniro, Tom Hanks, Glenn Frey, Norman Rockwell, James Cameron, Dr. Seus, Nuns, Supreme Court Justice John Roberts, Jonathan Krohn at age 17, Fact Checkers, Australia, Mitt Romney, Rasmussen, Fox News, Lockheed Martin, Bureau of Labor Statistics, Paul Ryan, Debate moderators, Ben Stein, Soup kitchens, Chris Christie

    And now we can add "The IT Department" to the list.

    --
    BMO

    1. Re:A list of things to blame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And methodists!

  48. Not their fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In all honesty it wasn't there fault.

    The truth of the matter is that it was God's will.

  49. Tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, listen to all the tolerant people who are only tolerant of people who think exactly like them.
    Not all conservatives believe the exact same things.
    Do all liberals believe the same things?
    Since you all are exaggerating conservatives, I may as well exaggerate you:
    All liberals want the following:
    You all want to tell us how much soda we are allowed to buy.
    You all want everyone to make minimum/maximum wage (because no one should be allowed to be richer than anyone else).
    But the government will provide everything for free, so there is no reason to work.
    The government will own and operate everything, since ownership would signal that you are rich.
    This of course means they everyone should live in huge government built apartments (probably grey).
    No one should be allowed to own or even use any gas powered motor.
    All coal, natural gas, and nuclear power plants must be shut down, so there will be constant blackouts, even when the globe is covered in solar panels and wind mills.
    No one should be allowed to smoke a cigarette, but marijuana is ok, maybe even required in some states.
    The military should be disbanded completely.
    The president (only democrats allowed) can pass anything by executive order (Obama has done several times more executive orders than Bush, in half the time, yet you don't call him an imperial president like you did Bush)
    There should be no limits on abortion, even post birth abortion. Where is the line by the way? 18 years post birth? (look it up, your president voted against limiting post birth abortions when he actually voted anything other than "present" in the illinois state legislature)
    This is only a short list, so feel free to add more.

  50. Re:The real problem is 37,000 GOTV for several sta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He did

  51. Republican tech-based voter monitoring? by dgharmon · · Score: 1

    If the Democrats did this then they would be accused of violating your privacy .. link

    --
    AccountKiller
  52. Good job! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No seriously, it's really remarkable that counting hasn't even finished, yet the loser already knows who exactly is to blame for losing. Hint: not him, not other higher-ups in the party, not his party's politics. It's some tech's fault, obviously!

  53. Re:community organizer == ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One very important thing for our nation is the economy. It is very true that not all businessmen, even successful ones, are knowledgeable in economics. However, to assume that a community organizer/lawyer knows more about any given practical area (management, business, economics, etc.) is vastly farther off the mark.

  54. Romney is mentally ill or has a false god by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There's a long list of Republicans who claim their god would give them office.

    Either they're all mentally ill or their god isn't real.

    Maybe both.

    1. Re:Romney is mentally ill or has a false god by blade8086 · · Score: 1

      well - he is a Mormon:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham

      Mormonism: Scientology of the 1800's

      queue the all religions are crap responses next..

  55. MUST be a computer problem by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 0

    Yeah, the Republicans can't have lost an election because they pitched their campaign to a narrowing segment of the electorate that wasn't big enough to elect their last candidate when that segment was bigger. It can't be because their candidate was on both sides of every issue. It can't be because their policy positions are opposed by a majority of the electorate.

    It must be a computer problem.

  56. The Internet ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... is just a series of tubes. And the GOP didn't want to deal with the pipe-fitters union.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  57. You mean other people should help people in need by publiclurker · · Score: 1

    As reality always shows, these idiots only care for themselves. choosing to blame the victims in order to pretend that they have any sense of integrity.

  58. IT? Hello? Anyone know anything about IT? by QuincyDurant · · Score: 1

    In my first campaign, we selected voter households for GOTV by hand-sorting punch-cards and then having the computer guy make a tape and run out labels and precinct lists with shared (actually bootleg) time on a bank mainframe and a line printer.

    So, all due respect, I know more about campaigns and elections after 38 of them than most slashdot posters. I also know that some of you hate the GOP and some of you return the sentiment with interest.

    But I know next to nothing about network computing except as a consumer. Any chance of redirecting this conversation from what I know about to what you know about?

    What was the deal with Romney's data processing? Were those management problems created by marketing/management guys like me, or were they technical fuckups by the IT guys? And what lessons can future campaign managers learn?
    .

    1. Re:IT? Hello? Anyone know anything about IT? by sjames · · Score: 1

      I'm not privy to the internal details, so I can only guess. That said, this looks like an upper management problem. I say that because the failures in multiple un-connected areas were all of the same nature. It wasn't just a server that fell down with no backup, it was a failure to correctly generate and distribute PINs and failure to have a working recovery procedure in place. It was a failure to distribute correct checklists to poll workers. A failure to convey useful information to volunteers so they could even find the server or make use of it.

      At the same time, there appear to have been genuine technical failures as well as management induced technical failures. Management refusing to budget time or money could explain the lack of a failover server, but cannot explain the lack of a redirect from http to https.

    2. Re:IT? Hello? Anyone know anything about IT? by QuincyDurant · · Score: 1

      Thanks. That's sounds about right. It does seem odd, however, that with almost unlimited campaign funds Romney could not have automated the "perfect list" strategy that Lincoln described in 1840:

      Make a perfect list of the voters and ascertain with certainty for
      whom they will vote... Keep a constant watch on the doubtful voters and have
      them talked to by those in whom they have the most confidence... On Election
      Day see that every Whig is brought to the polls.

    3. Re:IT? Hello? Anyone know anything about IT? by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      It boils down (as it so often does) to management failure. Management failed to check up on how the system development was going. Management failed to schedule checks and test runs before the system went live (and probably failed to allocate enough people and budget to do the testing properly and resolve any problems even if they had scheduled time for testing). Management failed to look at what would actually be needed when laying down the requirements. And finally, management failed to make sure there was a backup plan in place for if things went south at release.

      For instance, the failure to get information packets with required stuff in them into the hands of the volunteers. IT may be involved in creating the packets, but scheduling things so that those packets are created and distributed before the last minute is a management job. There's a few things that won't be final until the last minute, like voter lists, but things like poll-watcher certificates can be ready days or weeks ahead of time. Even the voter lists can be mostly prepared days ahead of time, with only final updates the night before. If you print and distribute the lists a couple days ahead, you also give yourself backup: if the final updates blow up or don't go out, your people still have lists that're probably 95% accurate which is better than having no lists at all. So why didn't the management running the Romney campaign have all those information packets printed up and distributed starting 3-4 days before Election Day? That would've given time for anyone who didn't get their packet to call in or go in and pick up a replacement. And why did management put something outside their control, the home printers of the volunteers, on the critical path for their plan? That's always asking for a disaster right there.

      If this is how Romney and his friends run their businesses, it's no wonder those businesses are having problems. I've seen Cub Scout candy sales that're better organized and managed than this.

    4. Re:IT? Hello? Anyone know anything about IT? by sjames · · Score: 1

      It certainly reflects on Romney's qualifications to run the most important executive office in the U.S. Ultimately, he was the top executive in his campaign.

  59. No news here... by billybob_jcv · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... IT gets blamed for everything.

  60. Re:community organizer == ? by blade8086 · · Score: 1

    or - to make any assumptions about anyone without reviewing their skillset is vastly off the mark?

    I would not vote for YOU sir

  61. Serves YOU right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess this is what happens when your backward, anti-freedom police state party systematically alienates all the programmers and sysadmins and hackers, all the good techs and IT personnel who otherwise might have wanted to help you. ...to be replaced by the party that wants to take 50% or more of everything you earn or have if you are a producer, and "redistribute" it to lazy slackers who exist and reproduce like rabbits solely for the purpose of demanding more and more handouts from the nanny state.

    Elections do have consequences. They always do.

  62. Yup keep shifting the blame. by utkonos · · Score: 1

    Off the fact that the Republican platform was bigoted, anti-women, anti-gay, anti-latino, anti-african american, anti-environmental, anti-science, mixed with a large does of religious crazy.

    I've got news for you. Your IT department wasn't why you lost the young vote. Your get out the vote failing wasn't what scared away the Latino vote. And believe me, canvasing poorly wasn't what kept African Americans from voting for you.

    The angry white man thing won't work anymore because us "those people" now outnumber you, permanently (thank goodness!).

  63. Outsourced Presidency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Following his stated policies.

  64. Missing the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No it doesn't serve them right. We all lose when the selection for our highest office becomes a race between the lesser of two evils. You are buying into the talking heads blaming anything other than that their message wasn't being lapped up by the uncommitted voters. This wasn't a failure to drive people to the polls - as if you need to drive people to the polls to win an election - or as if driving people to the polls who don't want to vote is a good thing. This was 100% that Mitt Romney wasn't as good at convincing people to vote for him. At the end of the day, you can blame anything you want, but the Republicans should learn from this that the country is more moderate than their candidate was. Making a liberal flip flop on all his positions to get elected by the conservative base doesn't work with the moderates that care about what he _actually_ believes in. Heck, I might have voted for Romney based on his record if only he didn't take the conservative sound bite lock, stock, and barrel and beat us all down with stuff which I'm almost positive he doesn't believe. Romney is damaged goods. He is damaged by the partisan nature of the electorate in the USA.

  65. Bain tactics by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 1
    re: "Other times they would saddle a company with debt, charge it exorbitant "consulting fees", and let it go into bankruptcy once there was nothing left to loot..."

    How is this different from if a person got a credit card and ran up bills and then refused to pay and went into bankruptcy? I think most people would call someone who did that "immoral'' and ''a crook" if they charged things which they had no intention of paying off... It's almost like corporate identity theft done with the intention of looting the good-na,me and credit of the company you buy out. Yet, if you do that with a company that's called a good business tactic to maximize profit; if you do it as an individual it's called immoral and "stealing from the credit card company".

    1. Re:Bain tactics by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Yup. I read an interesting article somewhere on "strategic default," or perhaps it was on Frontline. A strategic default is when you have the means to pay off a loan, but choose not to. In terms of the mortgage crisis it means that you just stop paying your mortgage, drag out the foreclosure process as much as you can, and then let the bank take the loss when they seize your under-water home. I don't know the details but it might involve having to do something to avoid having assets that can be seized, particularly if you think you have to go through bankruptcy.

      Strategic default certainly has consequences - you aren't getting another mortgage for 7 years for sure, and you're going to lose the home (unless you can convince the bank to rent it back to you, which chances are they're aren't going to be too happy about or even interested in).

      However, if you have a $400k mortgage on a $250k loan, then walking away means avoiding paying $150k in principal plus all the interest. If you drag it out you might get to live a year or two rent-free, which on a loan that size might be $100k in payments. Oh, that interest will get tacked on to the princpal, but you weren't getting a dime from the sale of the house anyway. Then you just rent for the next 7 years, and while renting tends to be more expensive than buying it isn't $250k more expensive, which is how much you're saving.

      Now, most normal people would argue that this is immoral, but the whole point of the article was that this was the sort of decision businesses make all the time. Their reputations are worth something, and paying the loan costs something, and not paying it costs something. You just throw all those numbers into a spreadsheet, and if the number is green you make the next payment, and if not, you get your manager to approve it and then you stop. Companies will destroy a century's worth of hard-earned reputation if some NPV calculation tells them to do it, because that is what they teach you in business school. Ethics have nothing to do with any of this - the company signed a contract because they figured it would make them money, and if something goes wrong they just do whatever loses them the least money. The bank that loaned them the money did the same calculation - it isn't like they make loans because they love new families and want to see them succeed - they ran the numbers and they figured they'd make more money loaning them money than not, otherwise the nice new couple could live in their parent's basement.

  66. Serious Theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only logical explanation is that intellectual heavyweights Sandra Fluke, Beyonce, and Eva Longoria hacked into the site causing it to crash. They then regrouped at Obama regime headquarters and had a shot of Smirnoff with Comrade Jane Fonda to plan their next move.

  67. "Superiority" by westlake · · Score: 1

    bullshit, most Nazi technology e.g. aircraft was superior.

    Arthur C. Clarke wrote a famous short story about how a galactic empire was broken by its wartime quest for the ultimate weapon.

    In WWII the US had its super weapon in the atomic bomb.

    But its primary focus was on the mass production of ships, planes, weapons, radios and so on in numbers that would have an immediate impact on the war effort.

  68. I am an old while male fundie by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2

    And they antagonize me. Mind you, I am fundamentalist humanist. And a socialist.

    Quit generalizing, not all old farts are the same, we just smell the same.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  69. Re:LOL urbanites by multimediavt · · Score: 1

    I'm always amazed at how *intolerant* leftists can be. I live in a rural "redneck" community and we have very little crime, pollution, racism and unemployment here. Our schools are ranked some of the highest in the nation and just about everyone I know graduated college. Maybe we're not as dumb as the stereotype you submit to says we are.

    lmao...we're supposed to take all that at face value with no links to statistics for where you live, let alone the actual location. I call shenanigans. Where is this place, Republican Fantasyland?

  70. Jesus! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You raging liberals are worst than watching Ann Coulter fucking Rush Limbaugh. Get a fucking grip!

    We've had Republican presidents in the past and we will likely have them again in the future.

    90% of the insults being bandied around in the comments is no better than the shit that comes out of Fox news.

    Essentially, you've all sunk to the level of the morons that you're trying to prove yourself better than. Way to go!

  71. Creepy! And illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article states that one of the goals was to use smartphones to capture voter's names at the polls as they checked in.
    That is pretty creepy and seems to be getting close to illegal...

  72. Quants vs the Grassroots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What will win elections in the future is science and data. Not that "science and data" are political issues, but the understanding that there is a science to winning elections, through the surgical collection and exploitation of data. This is not the way a large amount of the Republican leadership thinks.

    There are definitely Republican guys who recognize this. Karl Rove is a particularly good example -- for instance, years ago he recognized that population growth trends demanded that the GOP drop immigration issues and start courting Hispanic voters; he's also made similar suggestions regarding other demographically problematic party platforms. His analysis and ensuing practical advice was recognized as being absolutely correct by numerous Republican leaders, but also as being political suicide for most of their candidates to try to implement (due to the ideological purity tests demanded by their own Primary process voters, and by their own pundits and media figures).

    There's not much sense of this in Rove's public speeches, though -- mostly have to go to gossipy insider documentaries and such. He's canny enough to camouflage his thoughts, in an environment where practicality and compromise are considered near-treasonous.

  73. Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pretty much in keeping with the mediocre standards and performance of virtually everything associated with the Romney campaign, from the campaign, the gaffs, the lies, the stupidity and the embarrassment he provided to anyone who was foolish enough to vote for him. What a looser.

  74. The real reason they lost... by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    ...is their obnoxious robot phone calls. During the lead up to the election I was getting an average of three a day with peaks of ten a day. I kept a list of the candidates who did this and voted AGAINST them. They wasted my time and got punished for it. Every candidate who did this to me LOST. I bet they pissed off a lot of other people.

  75. Stick to Steel Pens on Parchment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These people have zero technical acumen. Leave them to their steel pens, India ink and parchment!

  76. I'd say by doginthewoods · · Score: 1

    This is what happens when you hire someone based in ideology. The GOP has a history of hiring half wit acolytes, who get where they are by falling upwards. The ORCA debacle is no exception.

    --
    Republican leadership = Idiocracy
  77. Once again by doginthewoods · · Score: 1

    The GOP still cannot fathom that they ran a campaign based on lies and smears, with no substance whatsoever, and Mitt was a liar and a thief. The GOP got slammed because they lie and steal, and have 35 year long track record of it. EOS

    --
    Republican leadership = Idiocracy
  78. good riddance by doginthewoods · · Score: 1

    This guy says nothing of substance, and has no reasoning ability or logic, nor facts to back up his assertions, with out resorting to name calling as a defense. So he does as all Goopers do when they are cornered- throws a hissy fit and leaves. Proof once again he can't back up what he says.

    --
    Republican leadership = Idiocracy
  79. Appropriate IT staffing... by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

    ...for the party that's the choice of morons.

  80. They've just been worshiping a fantasy is all by jthill · · Score: 1

    That disconnect isn't just "our" perception of how the right wing thinks. This statement (attributed to Karl Rove, I think universally) was not delivered in a casual context, not responding to a shouted question, it was a sit-down lengthy interview with a New York Times reporter.

    The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality.

    The contempt and (by us liberals' standards) insanity he displays is open, intentional and utter. Regardless, his meltdown on election night and the right wing's complete bafflement at their failure fit that picture exactly. That's Rove was revealing how right-wingers think the world works. That's Romney thinking he can lie with every word out of his mouth. That's their pollsters looking at hard data thinking they can change the results by denying them. That's their voters, who really do think believing what they're told and repeating it loud enough is magic that makes it true.

    There's a large part of the GOP who think they're not completely sucked in to this mindset, who think they're just being practical by cultivating that vote, who imagine themselves, without the least sense of irony, creators.

    That's not my word for what they think, it's theirs.

    --
    As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
  81. Churches are people, my friend. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And those people are very often filled with hate and an authoritarian streak a mile wide.

    1. Re:Churches are people, my friend. by swillden · · Score: 1

      And those people are very often filled with hate and an authoritarian streak a mile wide.

      Authoritarian streak, I'll grant. Hate? No. Well, there are some, I suppose, like Westboro Baptist, but the vast majority, and the LDS church in particular, are about love. Homosexuals who don't really understand the LDS position on homosexuality will disagree, but they're wrong.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  82. Oh well by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

    I was hoping for an intelligent discussion about the I.T. technologies used by the two campaigns, and instead I find the same old waste of time war of words going on where liberals insult conservatives in the most hateful of ways, calling them names, and conservatives shout back with alleged facts and no references. Is it not possible for anyone to move beyond this? Seems to me the "great uniter" we elected in 2008 has divided all of us against ourselves in an irreconcilable way. It didn't take much to do this.

    --
    Murphy was an optimist
  83. Not quite as big as you'd think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you read Albert Speer's memoir (He was essentially the civilian head of the entire war effort as Hitler's Minister of Armaments) you will find that the way he organized the German economy to conduct a two-plus-front war was one where the producers were given a lot of freedom to solve technological, economic and supply problems in any way they saw fit. He thought it was ironic when, after the war, he was debriefed by the allies to find that their economies were structured very top-down, very controlled and very limiting as to what people could do on the same fronts. Germany's problem is that they lacked the wealth and manpower to overcome their enemies. They had great war materiel, great soldiery and great maritime skill. They never fielded a superfortress that could quite match what the Allies brought to bear, but it was too late by then anyway because they were already reducing the amount of explosives in their bombs because they were running out of resources.