Highway To Sell: AC/DC iTunes Snub Finally Over

Hugh Pickens "The LA Times reports that after years of stubbornly arguing that iTunes was, in the words of singer Brian Johnson, 'going to kill music if they're not careful,' AC/DC has reached a deal with Apple to sell its entire catalog — 16 studio albums, four live albums and three compilations — through the service. AC/DC was one of the last high-profile holdouts from the digital music marketplace, outlasting the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd, all of which jumped into the realm long after much of the population had accepted the downloading future. Angus Young, AC/DC's lead guitarist (known for wearing a schoolboy's uniform when performing), had long argued against hawking the band's music because he didn't like the idea of allowing for individual song downloads — submitting that the group's albums were designed to be listened to from beginning to end. 'It's like an artist who does a painting,' he said in 2008. 'If he thinks it's a great piece of work, he protects it. It's the same thing: This is our work.'"

Comments

Individual Song Downloads

[Anonymous Coward]

He's against it because all AC/DC songs sound exactly the same. Download one and you've got them all.

It follows this pattern:

NAME OF THE SONG!!!!
you got me singing
NAME OF THE SONG!!!!
now you're listening to
NAME OF THE SONG!!!!

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[BitZtream]

If they wanted them listened to beginning to end they should have made it a single track.

They didn't.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[Beardo the Bearded]

He's against it because all AC/DC songs sound exactly the same. Download one and you've got them all.

It follows this pattern:

NAME OF THE SONG!!!!
you got me singing
NAME OF THE SONG!!!!
now you're listening to
NAME OF THE SONG!!!!

Not the word I'd have used, but your point is valid nonetheless.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[jdray]

Furthermore, he doesn't seem to object to radio play of single songs. Consumption is consumption.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[Joce640k]

There's still time to do it.

One big mp3 file...the album from beginning to end.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[AK Marc]

No, my CD would (after I programmed it once) play random/repeat on insertion of a CD (7 disc changer, JVC, purchased in the early 1990s).

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[Jeng]

Not sure why I was expecting this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sppRrbtxVD0

No, not a rickroll

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[crazyjj]

all AC/DC songs sound exactly the same

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[mcgrew]

That's not how it worked. When this music was new, we had vinyl records. No remote control, no "skip" button. You put the record on the turntable, pit the needle in the groove, and listened. No way to mix up the tracks short of making a mix tape.

Dark Side of the Moon was one of these, and it wasn't designed to be listened to like you listen to a CD; when side 1 was over, you walked to the turntable, turned the record over, and played side two. DSOM doesn't really work well as a single track, but as two tracks.

However, ACDC is full of shit on this one. Their songs were never meant to be listened to in any particular order, and in fact that cassettes often had the songs in a different order than the LP, unlike DSOM, Magical Mystery Tour, Tommie, etc.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[BitZtream]

I have vinyl records. The have gaps between songs so you can jump to a song, even AC/DC albums.

AC/DC also did most of their work during the eight track period ... Again allowing you to skip songs easily

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[jtownatpunk.net]

A friend put it this way: "They play that song better than anyone else."

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[SleazyRidr]

Then they'd only get 99 cents for the whole album.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[ArcadeMan]

I remember getting the wax cylinder out of the box, putting it in the CD player, pressing the "Side B" button, then the button labeled "Track 4", then setting the speed to 45 revolutions per minute and finally tuning to 101.7 on the frequency modulating carrier wave to enable the decoding of the psycho-acoustically encoded audio frames.

Oh no, wait, I'm thinking about horse drawn carriages. My bad.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[ArcadeMan]

He's against it because all AC/DC songs sound exactly the same.

Only if you listen to them through a diode bridge and capacitors.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[R3d M3rcury]

Perhaps he does, but he doesn't have control of how his music is distributed. We all are aware that most music distribution corporations own various rights to distribute music and they do so the way it is agreed.

So if AC/DC has not signed away their digital distribution rights, they may choose the way their music is distributed. And perhaps they believe that their music should not be chopped up.

It's the artist's choice. If they feel that strongly and are willing to forgo the money that they would make from selling singles, so be it. I, as a consumer, can choose not to buy it or to illegally copy just the songs that I want. So not selling singles isn't necessarily a smart business move, but it is a choice that an artist can make with the music that they create and I respect that.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[Anonymous Coward]

One of my all time favorites, Queensryche's Operation:Mindcrime, was clearly intended to be listened to start to finish. Never owned it on vinyl so don't know how they handled that.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[cayenne8]

I could see this for bands like Pink Floyd too...I mean, their albums, especially from their heyday (DSOTM, Animals, WYWH, and The Wall)...I still to this day, can rarely play one song from those, if I want to listed to any of the songs on one of those albums, I'll listen to the whole thing as a singular work, with different chapters.

I like AC/DC, but I don't think of their music in the same album singularity of work thing.

LOL..in the vein of "no one will ever need more than 640K".

I think the Young brothers say something like "No one will ever need more than 3 chords!!"

:)

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[hairyfeet]

I actually wish that were true, then they would be consistently listenable, but all their stuff from the mid 90s on is just lame. Where is the "You shook me" or "Shoot to thrill" after 94? They don't exist. AC USED to be able to write the most catchy hooks, you would hear an AC song and be singing along because you...just couldn't HELP but like it, it was too damned upbeat and catchy. it was great music to go flying down the freeway to.

I'm sorry but you listen to the later singles and they are just...meh. the hooks are NOT catchy, you don't remember the songs 3 minutes after hearing them, like many bands that were once good they just ran out of gas. This is why so many like their live shows, they have enough back catalog that they can just play the hits and not have to worry about the new stuff, but strictly on quality of hooks and catchy songs the later stuff just blows.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[operagost]

Yeah, but 8-track was horrible.

YOU! Shook me all... night*click*
-
-
-
LONG!

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[evil_aaronm]

Have you listened to Black Ice? It's actually not bad. No real stinker in the bunch.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[xclr8r]

Dream Theater as well particularly "Scenes from a Memory"

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[mug funky]

this is true. it's still awesome though.

nothing gets bogans moving faster.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[icebraining]

I'm not GP, but I've listened to it a bunch of times before going to their concert in '09, and I frankly never picked it up again. It's OK, but hardly worth repeating the experience.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[TapeCutter]

nothing gets bogans moving faster.

"It's a long way to the shop if you want a sausage roll".

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[hairyfeet]

Hell that is the same thing I did, I've seen AC in concert a couple times now and while they put on a hell of a show there is A REASON why they nearly always stick to the back catalog, and that is because the new stuff just isn't as catchy anymore.

I feel the same way about Rush, while they can still write and play just as tasty as before the later stuff? the hooks...just aren't there. Right after Roll the Bones they just seemed to run out of gas. Where is the next Tom Sawyer? or New World Man? They just haven't been able to match the way they were able to just get those songs stuck in your head. And I've given ALL the later stuff by AC and Rush a fair shake, listening straight through a couple times each, but...its just not there, that "spark" for a lack of a better term, that just made those tunes latch onto your brain and not let go.

And before anybody says its because I'm old my oldest boy is just turning 20 and going to college, perfect rock n' roll listening age, and he said "Meh, those just don't make me want to keep playin' 'em...BTW where is your AC greatest CD at?" LOL. So I'd say its the simple fact that the well has run dry, they have just run out of catchy tunes in the barrel and what we are getting is just the trailings.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[R3d M3rcury]

I could see this for bands like Pink Floyd too... [...] I like AC/DC, but I don't think of their music in the same album singularity of work thing.

Fair enough. Frankly, I agree with you.

The question is "who gets to decide?" I submit that it's the artist's choice, not yours, regarding how they choose to represent their work and it's something that we should respect.

Now a smart businessperson knows to sell the people what they want. If I create an album and everybody only likes one song, I may be disappointed that people don't see the beauty of the work as a whole and are just focused on this one little piece. But if they want that one song? Hell, yeah, I'll sell it to them. And I'll be disappointed all the way to the bank.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[evil_aaronm]

I saw Rush in concert just two or three weeks ago, and I know exactly what you're talking about. They played new stuff, and it wasn't bad, but people just weren't as into it. For much of the show, people just stood there. They hit Tom Sawyer in the encore, and the place just exploded. The new stuff got cheers, of course, but nowhere near the enthusiasm. There's just something missing.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[blanks]

Or music videos. Or playlists not following album releases.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge vinyl collector and would never pay for a digital download (as I enjoy the entire album experience) but once you give in you basically throw out your entire excuse and invalidate everything you have previously said.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[Macgrrl]

Am I ever going to see your face again? No way... etc...

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[hairyfeet]

Its the HOOKS man, the hooks just aren't there. As a bass player i can tell you there is just something...magical for want of a better term when you're playing and you just hit this...perfect sequence where you have the whole audience just moving in a perfect groove like, like, its almost like everything becomes connected, its like this perfect groove that everything just falls into and you just can't help but go with the groove like a wave.

But I can tell you its DAMNED hard to get that going just right, I know that if I'm not given a decent drummer that can read where i'm going and give me the right back up its just gonna trainwreck and trying to write a truly good hook on a timetable? Damned near impossible, it just don't work that way.

The fact that AC and Rush put out so many great hits in the past meant that at that particular moment in time everything was fucking PERFECT, all the musicians could read each other like books and once one of them starting on a groove the others would pick it up and build on it and the next thing you know BAM! they've got a killer song. Unfortunately chemistry is just one of those things you can't fake, either you are all on the same page or you're not. I have played with guitarists that at one time we just fucking gelled sooo damned good, when they would start playing I didn't have to be told a damned thing because I KNEW, just by the feel and the mood and the tempo EXACTLY where they were gonna go and likewise When I would start to percolate a nice thick bottom they knew EXACTLY where I was gonna go and would compliment my groove so fucking perfectly you'd swear we must have played that song a million times when we were making it up on the spot, but years later I get a chance to play with them and its just.....its not like anybody is BAD,its just you have had different experiences and just don't really feel and understand the person you are playing with so there is this...friction that keeps the parts from gelling, like a grinding gear that once worked wonderfully it just doesn't really...fit in that slot anymore.

I know that probably sounds hippy and weird but its really fucking HARD to describe what it feels like to just be in that zone playing, I've always said its almost like my brain has shut down and its just my emotions pouring through the fingers, i have to go back and listen just to figure out some passages because its almost like it isn't me that is playing it, because without the instrument in my hand I'm just not able to feel or express like that.

And that is what i think happened to AC and Rush, its not like any of them have gotten BAD, on the contrary that many years with their instruments they are more skilled that ever, but its not skill that writes the great hook, its emotion, its feeling that groove and just letting it flow and becoming this one living thing, you are just in this perfect zone and it all just flows, but these guys have grown apart and just don't have that ability anymore.

I'll never forget what an engineer told me when I was recording a song with one of the previous bands i had played with.I had spent a LOT of time on this song coming up with a very intricate but tasty bass line I wanted for the song, and I had played it enough live i could do that riff in my sleep. But when it came time to play the song in the studio while i did the riff i wanted in the first bridge we had been having a great day and we were all into it and I just completely forgot the riff and played what I was feeling then, this wild abandoned fun that we were having together. So afterwards I tell the engineer I want to punch in and replace the second bridge with the riff and he said "Are you shitting me? No way, no way in HELL do you want to screw that up! What you did in the first bridge was cool but the second is just fricking FUN with a capital F, and it fits everything soooo damned good, don't mess it up" and sure enough it got to that second bridge and I pointed out the difference and they played that part back a few times and they were all

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[PFactor]

Why aren't people impressed with the compression ratio AC/DC achieved?

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[PFactor]

I'm a fan of AC/DC but you do have to admit that it seems like the albums were written by a sentient compression algorithm with permanent angst. "Winrar presents: the AC/DC Collection"

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[mcgrew]

Yes, but in order to skip to the next song you had to get off the couch, walk to the turntable, and physically move the tone arm. With eight tracks you didn't skip to the next song, you skipped to the next of the four stereo tracks. I know of no ACDC albums with only four songs of identical length.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[mlosh]

As a AC/DC and Rush fan since about 1981, I could not agree more. The new Rush album has a few nice bits but a lot of it just does not grab me. The last Rush album I was excited about is probably 'Power Windows' (1985).

Part of the problem for me is that Geddy's vocal range is shrinking as he ages (understandably). Another part is that most of the songs since the late-80's are too layered... to many things going on competing for attention. However, the biggest reason, making the layering much worse is the huge amounts of dynamic compression (of the sound levels) in all the 90's and 2000's releases. All the sonic layers end up stomping over each other, just making a loud mess. 'Vapor Trails' was really bad this way. There was a very good article about this maybe a decade or so ago... comparing the dynamic range of the early Rush recordings with the modern ones and providing clear technical reasons the newer releases sound like crap compared to the old ones.

I'd really like to hear cleanly-mixed, good dynamic-range remaster of the modern albums. 'Clockwork Angles' is perhaps a little better in terms of listenability, but nowhere close to the Rush albums from '74 through about '81. Unfortunately, remasters are typically getting more dynamic compression and loudness, not less.

Recent AC/DC stuff? I just don't bother.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[hairyfeet]

While all of the problems you point out ARE problems frankly if the hooks were there that just wouldn't matter, I've heard bands with frankly poor recordings but damn if you didn't end up playing them over and over because the hooks were just too damned good!

With Rush they were all about writing smart melodic songs that were catchy as hell, The Trees, Xanadu, hell all of Moving Pictures, distant Early warning...these songs you just couldn't help but play over and over. I remember spending weeks trying to learn some of the more intricate stuff NOT because it was intricate, but because it was so damned anthemic you just wanted to play along!

You listen to the new stuff? Its just...its again not that they are bad its just the hooks aren't there. I've listened to all the later stuff at least twice through from start to finish and afterward I can't even remember a single song, the hooks just aren't there. the last Rush song I actually sang along to was "Time Stand Still" but even that wasn't the big sweeping anthems that were were so damned good at back in the day, I'll enjoy Time Stand Still if it comes on but I don't keep it in my CD player like I did Moving Pictures or even Exit Stage Left, because the hooks? Just not there.

So again I agree 100% with everything you said, those are ALL problems, but if the hooks were there frankly you'd put up with it and just wish they'd release a cleaner CD, instead you listen once or twice and put it away, no different than the new AC, its just not got that great catchy tasty hooks like they used to have. And as I said my oldest is 20, prime music listening age and he says the same thing, the new stuff simply isn't as good. So its not a rose colored glasses deal but instead they just ran out of gas. And I had clockwork Angels...I ended up giving it away, there was just nothing there that got me invested in the album. No true anthems, no songs that made you soar, it was technically good as far as the playing but sounded...soulless, for want of a better term.

And before someone calls me an old fuddy duddy I am currently listening to Five Finger Death Punch and even a few Pink songs, if a song has great hooks and a catchy groove I'll be happy to listen to it but the new Rush and AC is pretty much hook free, like I said they just run out of gas. Considering how much great music they have put out Rush ought to do like AC and just tour on the back catalog, the people would love the shows (hell I'd be first in line, a friend went and said they played 90% new stuff and was just meh) and lets face it, those guys could play a 5 hour show of just the great back catalog tunes and have a TON of songs to choose from. Now if you'll excuse me i think I'll listen to Bastille Day and maybe break out my acoustic bass and try to keep up with Geddy in his prime. i won't succeed but its a hell of a workout and just...fun.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[Wolfrider]

...Jake? Is that you?

/ Stonebender or Blues, take your pick ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callahan's_Crosstime_Saloon

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[hairyfeet]

Since I never heard of it I have NO clue what any of that has to do with what i said, but I'll take your word for it. The thing is when trying to talk about music and playing, at least for me, frankly the English vocabulary is woefully lacking when it comes to descriptors when it comes to emotions and music, you either come off sounding like a hippy or like a Vulcan, there really just isn't words that describe a lot of this stuff.

I'll give an example, there was this gig I was playing with the band I was with which was kinda a poppy Weezer kind of group, real eclectic bunch in a couple of clean cut college boys, a really great country rock guitarist and drummer, and my big biker ass. The crowd was just loving it, I actually got down from the stage and was dancing with a couple of girls with my bass, it was THAT kind of a groove, but it was like me and the audience were just feeding off each other, as their spirits would rise and they'd get more pumped so would I, by the end of the gig I look down and the pearl white pickguard was stained red where I had torn the calluses off my fingers which I swear i didn't feel, and i found out later that a friend of the band had videotaped the show and when we watched it back it was like...well it was almost like that wasn't me. Frankly I had to go back on several songs to learn WTF I was playing there because all that energy I got from the audience...well it made me a better player that night, I don't know how else to put it.

And THAT is the problem, how in the fuck do you describe that feeling to someone who has never felt it? A friend who used to race stock cars said he knew EXACTLY what I was talking about, because frankly he couldn't find words to describe the pure emotional rollercoaster he went through when he raced, he said it would be like trying to describe what its like to skydive and only coming up with "You jump out of a plane, a chute opens, you land". Sure that is technically what happens, but that doesn't in any way, shape, or form describe what it would feel like to actually skydive.

so I apologize if my vocabulary is woefully lacking, but when it comes to describing what its like to have that perfect moment, where everyone is in perfect sync and everything just flows so fucking perfect, well its like trying to describe a rainbow to a blind person, I just don't have the words that would allow me to convey what that feels like.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[mlosh]

Back in the day I mostly played guitar, but I joined up with another guy who could play much better lead, so I switched to playing bass 75% of the time. We did mostly Rush, Zep, Floyd, but a smattering of other stuff from Cream to AC/DZ to ZZ top to Metalica. I couldn't hit all of Geddy's playing cleanly, and I had to use a pick (I know, sacriledge...) I _kinda_ got to the point I could pull off YYZ, but that was really hard... but a blast! My favorite playing bass was probably Red Barchetta. I even did the foot-pedal synth thing by setting up a cheapo Casio SK-1 sampling keyboard with a hacked-in floor switch I could stomp on to change the background chord. The SK-1 "brass ensemble" sound setting resembled a lot of those Moving Pictures era floor pedal sounds. What a Hoot!

We thought were where the shit when we played Side 1 of Moving Pictures and Side 1 of Led Zepplin IV straight through. ("We're going to play something now from Rush's Moving Pictures album. This is... Side 1! [Ba-bum ba BUM! Ba-bum da Dum..]" When I was on guitar I loved to play Working Man, Limelight, Paranoid by Sabbeth, and a few more.

Man, what a great time. I don't play more than about once a year now. Most of my chops are gone. But those memories come back every time I hear one of those songs. Yeah, "hooks" is a good way to put it.

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[hairyfeet]

You sir are an asshole and you SUCK LOL! You know how damned long i tried to get that fast run (you know the one) in YYZ before giving up? My fingers just aren't fucking long enough to get the kind of reach required to pull that one off, although i still love to play Freewill or Limelight when i get a chance.

And while I have a nice korg 01-W i noodle on i never went for the foot pedals, I was usually too busy on the bass to be multitasking like that. I don't get to play as often either but I have all my sweet sweet gear, my Squire pro tone 5 (the one that made Fender cancel the pro Tone line because people were buying those instead of MIA Fenders, heavy as hell but solid Swamp Ash with a thick bottom like you wouldn't believe), a Fender JP-90 (one of the best MIA basses they made IMHO, its light but has a thick punchy tone with sweet low end and tasty highs) A Washburn 1982 Force B4 pawnshop special I've had so many guys try to buy off me because I went all "artistic" on it, painted the headstock and pickguard with glitter nail polish and found some 1940s style pinup girls to put on the body, and no matter which i play it goes through my Zoom B1X (love that expression pedal and it has great clean tones) into my actual British Trace Elliot 250w 210 combo, which will seriously shake your foundations while being so clean you can't even imagine.

And all of that came about because of two men, Gene Simmons for the showmanship and of course Geddy Lee for truly inspiring me to reach beyond myself and try to really get to new levels on my playing. I mean you hear Bastille Day or Spirit Of Radio or Fly By Night or of course the holy grail of "damn you'll never pull it off" which is of course the ultimate kick ass finger breaker La Villa Strangiato, I mean how could any bass player NOT be inspired by that? Rush and early Motown are frankly two "You MUST hear this" for ANY bass player IMHO.

I do think its funny that you mostly played guitar whereas I was "A bass player trapped in a guitarist's body" because my first instrument was a guitar but i just kept putting bigger and bigger strings and trying to get a deeper and deeper tone until one day a neighbor whose brother played in a band said "You've got the wrong instrument bud, what you want is a bass!" and when he took me to his house and his big brother plugged in that 72 Fender P-bass and draped it across my little 14 year old self? THAT was it, i knew I would NEVER be happy with the limitations of a guitar. while I appreciate a good guitarist frankly nothing will do it for me like a big rumbling percolating bass line, preferably that I'm laying down nice and thick...man I GOT to get me another band after the holiday, that is all there is to it!

Oh and Happy Turkey day to you and yours!

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[mlosh]

Well, if you actually heard my rendition of YYZ, you might indeed say I sucked. By "_kinda_ got to the point..." I mean it was pretty sloppy. I missed some notes in those fast runs for sure. But I didn't demand perfection from myself and just had fun with it. The beer-soaked audience at my college were going nuts with each song we did from that album, so they were having fun too.

You have had some nice gear. My first decent guitar was a Washburn OSI(?) strat-style guitar I bought new in about '82. Over time, I had the frets redone taller and put some hotrails pickups in it. I encouraged my brother to get a bass so we could form a band, so he first got Squire sorta-short-scale bass. The tone was pretty poor on that, so it was not long before my brother found and bought a blond Rickenbacker. He was a Rush fan too. :-) When I started playing bass with my college band, I had a no-name bass with a thin flat neck that helped a guy like me transition back and forth from guitar. It had a real gritty sound, good for metal, not as good for the older rock we did. I never had a great amp (basic Crate). I played a Galleon-Kruger (sp?) amp in the store a few times and really wanted to get it, but didn't have the money.

The only electric I have now is a cheap Peavy guitar I got from a pawn shop during my first job out of school. I did upgrade the pickup with a EMG Humbucker, so I can get a pretty fat sound from it.

Thanksgiving was nice here. I hope you had a good one too!

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[hairyfeet]

Here is a bunch I bet you never heard of, but you can actually get some pretty nice playing instruments for cheap. They're Korean but who gives a crap if they play good, right? As you can see most of their basses are the P or J bass style, but since those are the easiest to customize with pickguards and pickups that is just a point in their favor. I've had a couple of these and have played with guitarists that used their strats and teles and frankly? they play pretty damned good. So if you want a nice cheap one that you can go all crazy custom like i have my Washburn they are the ones to go to.

And I've been building that gear up since 1986 so its taken quite awhile to get that together, I just never sell anything good so over the years its built up nicely. As far as guitar goes you really ought to give the guitar version of my Zoom pedal a try, built in headphone amp and drum machine for when you are alone, and when you get a chance to play out it has some kick ass guitar/amp combos built in and some tasty effects without going apeshit like a lot of those pedals do and the built in expression lets you do things most just can't do, like work the sweep on a phase or the amount of repeats in a delay like it was a wah wah, plus at $60 its cheap enough that it won't break the bank and even has a built in tuner, I just love the hell out of mine.

And the trick with the newer Squires is the wood just isn't as good, that is why I have hung onto that swamp ash pro tone, you just don't get that quality of wood in a squire anymore. GK amps are nice but to me nothing beats the tone of a pre buyout Trace Elliot, they have the sweetest tone and are really built solid, just truly great amps. Sadly they got bought by Peavey and now are just overpriced peaveys, too muddy and dark for anything but country IMHO. But if you need a good cheap bass amp Behringer makes some decent ones in the $100-$300 range, not gonna compete with a Marshall or a Trace but they won't break your wallet like one either, and they have the nice touches like a DI out and channel switching by footswitch, nice to have. Their guitar amps are pretty nice too, although naturally you'll need your own distortion as nobody makes a decent distortion in the cheaper amps.

And turkey day was great here, shame I have to go deal with the crazy traffic to do a backup drive install or my butt would be kicking back with some leftovers. have a great holiday weekend!

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[Wolfrider]

--It's all good, man. At least one of the Callahan's books has Jake Stonebender, the main protagonist, talking exactly the same way about the way he feels when playing in front of a crowd. You might want to look into the series (or at least one book.)

--I think the book that I remember having the part was " Callahan's Key " by Spider Robinson, but not 100% sure. Here's a free sample; the whole series is really pretty good:

http://callahans.50megs.com/spider/posttoast.html

/ FWIW, I envy you the feeling ;-)

Re:Individual Song Downloads

[hairyfeet]

Hell pick up a guitar or bass and give it a go, I've seen guys that can barely play 3 chords keep an entire crowd just jumping, its like that old saying "3 chords and some heart is all you need" and nearly every town has a club with an open mike night and a house band, get up there are rip through some classic I-IV-V rock and have a fricking ball. Sure you'll never be Steve Vai or Geddy Lee, but there are maybe 0.002% of the planet who can stand in the same room with those guys and not get smoked. I've been on stage with guys that were waaaay above me and I held my own, NOT because I could cut heads with them technically, but because when i got on that stage I was there to have FUN with a capital F and the audience can feel that. As I've often said on stage "tell Gene to get his ass up here because I AM the lord of the wasteland!" and the crowd always cheers and roars because they can tell I'm just eating that shit up and having a fucking ball.

And I bookmarked that link and will check it out if I get a chance, but I gotta knock the rust off if i wanna get back up there after the holidays. Time to break out the AC and Five Finger Death Punch and work my way back up to the Rush, happy holiday!

Bologna

[Anonymous Coward]

If that were truly the case (must be played in order), AC/DC would have never had singles, music videos or radio play.

Morans.

Re:Bologna

[MickyTheIdiot]

Agnes' argument about albums is demonstrably false. Here's why...

The era after Pink Floyd's two first albums they made the same argument about listening to the album as an entire piece. Because of this they didn't release singles (at least not in the UK. There are some late 60s early 70s singles in the U.S., but this their secondary market).

AC/DC always released singles. If they really cared about it they would of stopped like Pink Floyd did.

Re:Bologna

[reub2000]

If they truly wanted people to buy the whole album, then wouldn't they simply make the tracks album only. I know google play and amazon mp3 allow a band to do this, so I assume iTunes has the same option?

Re:Bologna

[christurkel]

Yes and no. Bands like Pink Floyd stopped officially releasing singles but the record companies carried on packing tracks as singles, because they could and helped the record sell. After the sixties the next official single release was "Another Brick In The Wall, Part Two" in 1979. Led Zepplin never released a single, the record company did that all on their own.

Begining to end???

[superdave80]

...submitting that the group's albums were designed to be listened to from beginning to end

So, where was all the outrage when radio stations were playing one song at a time? You know, the one or two good songs that people actually wanted to listen to?

Re:Begining to end???

[Sir_Sri]

Their radio play was the equivalent of itunes free 30 second intro to a single song.

If you believe an 'album' is really one long track then giving away one part of it is just the preview for the rest of it.

Re:Begining to end???

[TheRaven64]

The songs played on the radios were regarded by the bands as adverts (see: payola), and as such they didn't want to play the whole album because they wanted people to have to buy it to listen to the whole thing. The individual songs played on the radio were regarded as previews, not as complete works in themselves. In contrast, a downloaded track is regarded as a complete work by the band. No one complains that film previews contain scenes out of order, or that book previews only contain the first chapter, but the creators of both would strongly object to the idea of selling films by the scene[1] or books by the chapter.

[1] Certain Hollywood companies, however, would be very much in favour of this if they thought that they could get people to pay more that way.

Re:Begining to end???

[Anonymous Coward]

a band with hits such as "Big Balls"

That song was clearly about fancy dance events

Re:Begining to end???

[tilante]

Funny, then, how AC/DC has released 52 singles in the course of their career... the most recent in 2011. You'd think that if they didn't want people to buy single songs, they wouldn't make singles....

Re:Begining to end???

[Pope]

More like, where was all the outrage when AC/DC were selling 45s and other singles?

Re:Begining to end???

[nicholasjay]

...submitting that the group's albums were designed to be listened to from beginning to end

So, where was all the outrage when radio stations were playing one song at a time? You know, the one or two good songs that people actually wanted to listen to?

Not only that, but what about the compilation albums? Weren't they just an attempt to sell more records with minimal work? How were they put together?

Re:Begining to end???

[crazyjj]

Fuck, those guys ROCK in concert, though.

Re:Begining to end???

[L1mewater]

Not only that, but what about the compilation albums? Weren't they just an attempt to sell more records with minimal work? How were they put together?

Have they actually done any compilation albums? I'm not aware of one, and TFA seems to agree.

Re:Begining to end???

[nicholasjay]

Not only that, but what about the compilation albums? Weren't they just an attempt to sell more records with minimal work? How were they put together?

Have they actually done any compilation albums? I'm not aware of one, and TFA seems to agree.

I can think of two. Who Made Who and the Iron Man 2 soundtrack.

Re:Begining to end???

[gstoddart]

Well, they also did Iron Man 2 -- which no matter what your opinion of the movie, made a butt-load of money and got them exposure.

I was in a restaurant the other day, and two young kids (like 8 or 9) were singing along and head bobbing with the AC/DC which was playing -- my guess is that Iron Man 2 is partly to credit, though, maybe they got it from their parents.

At this point, any artists who are holding out from iTunes and the other stores have lost track of how most people are buying music.

Re:Begining to end???

[Anonymous Coward]

You dare speak ill of Maximum Overdrive? But where else can you hear Lisa Simpson being extra annoying?

Re:Begining to end???

[MickyTheIdiot]

Pink Floyd made the same argument and they actually stopped releasing singles in the U.K. I wrote about this above... in terms of AC/DC using it it's just an excuse.

Re:Begining to end???

[MickyTheIdiot]

I think with Pink Floyd it was a valid argument. In the 70s they mostly played entire albums as cycles at their concerts, and as I've wrote several times here they didn't release singles except in the U.S.

Re:Begining to end???

[jo_ham]

The songs played on the radios were regarded by the bands as adverts (see: payola), and as such they didn't want to play the whole album because they wanted people to have to buy it to listen to the whole thing. The individual songs played on the radio were regarded as previews, not as complete works in themselves. In contrast, a downloaded track is regarded as a complete work by the band. No one complains that film previews contain scenes out of order, or that book previews only contain the first chapter, but the creators of both would strongly object to the idea of selling films by the scene[1] or books by the chapter.

[1] Certain Hollywood companies, however, would be very much in favour of this if they thought that they could get people to pay more that way.

I'd argue they were almost there already. There's not enough story in the last Twilight to justify splitting it up into two films. There's only one motivation behind that.

Re:Begining to end???

[R3d M3rcury]

Funny, then, how Albert/EMI/Atlantic/Columbia/Epic/Atco/Elektra/East West has released 52 AC/DC singles in the course of their career...

FTFY.

Bands don't necessarily have any say in how their music is distributed if they want a record deal. Sad but true.

Re:Begining to end???

[Penguinisto]

Not really sure the movie analogy holds up.

It'd be more like a TV show analogy, after the TV series finally quits or gets cancelled... you have individual episodes which (more or less) stand on their own to varying degrees, some shows which are two-parters ("to be continued..."), and there should be an overall story arc that ties the shows together and provides some source of overall continuity (if the producers have any brains, anyway).

Any event, the TV show analogy fits: You can watch just the favorite episodes, watch the whole season in one go, or get the whole series and do a marathon. Just like songs: singles, albums, discographies.

Some single episodes/songs are masterful and epic, while others simply blow goats. Sometimes you want to do the whole series/album, crappy episodes/songs along with the good, just to get the whole arc for that season. Sometimes it only makes sense to do it as a whole series or album (e.g. X-Files for TV, or Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime for audio.) Other times, you can very easily break it up and enjoy the individual bits (e.g. Invader Zim or, well, any album made by AC/DC).

All that said and done, I sincerely doubt that AC/DC ever had an album that was made with an arc or story that ties the individual songs together.

Re:Begining to end???

[cayenne8]

I was in a restaurant the other day, and two young kids (like 8 or 9) were singing along and head bobbing with the AC/DC which was playing -- my guess is that Iron Man 2 is partly to credit, though, maybe they got it from their parents.

I think a lot if it has to do with the dearth of good music coming out today...actually since the 90's I'd say.

There is "some" good coming out, but what you see out for the mass public, which by definition most people see/hear, the landscape is pretty pathetic.

I see a lot of teens and so, wearing AC/DC shirts, and often listening to the music "I" grew up with...it kinds shocks me whenever I see this going on. It is surprisingly prevalent too.

Re:Begining to end???

[Gr8Apes]

The funny thing is most people no longer listen to an album in its entirety in one sitting, and never really did. You had to flip it over. If you desire a single experience, flow the songs together. Rush did this on 2112, NIN on Pretty Hate Machine, and there are others I just don't have them at my fingertips.

There's only a few albums that are worth listening to all at once, no matter what the artist thinks. Pink Floyd's The Wall was one such and had a great run, even with singles being sold. Most "albums" today are 1 or 2 sound bite songs with filler, cranked out as quickly and cheaply as possible. Not that I'm saying this is worse - we need one hit wonders, and some of my favorite songs are from one hit wonder bands. For some of the more rare ones, I'll buy the album (EP, LP, CD, DVD, whatever format happens to have the version of the song I want) and I'll take it from there under Fair Use. I have not bought a single MP3/AAC song yet, and would prefer not to until they are available in lossless format. I had heard some rumors of this occurring with some bands, but given my tastes, current collection and aggregation rate, there's no need for me to buy anything online. XMas and birthdays are great times to add the few things I deem worthy of owning.

And as much as the RIAA would have you believe no one buys music, people do. However, I only buy music I like, of which precious little is being produced these days. Just because no one is buying most of the tripe they're peddling doesn't mean people are stealing as the RIAA likes to think. We are just being very selective. I think I bought 1 album in the last 12 months (as a gift) for example. I will probably get 3 for XMas. That will most likely cover me until next XMas, provided anything I want comes out. Compare that to the roughly 2500 in my library, and that most of that library has been in my possession for more than a decade, and you'll see why sales are "down". Most I know were like me - prior to the true internet boom and online radio etc, buying albums and trading them was the most efficient way to get and share your own flavors of music. That is no longer necessary, and there's reams of "old" music I'm considering dumping. I have 500 CDs in a box ready to be donated to the local library, and that's just the first cut through the library. Why am I getting rid of these? Because should I wish to hear them again, Pandora or some web radio station I can easily get to will be playing whatever song I might still want to hear off of those.

So I suppose I'll "steal" another 500 potential sales or more by donating pieces of my collection to the library. Call out the goon squad.

Re:Begining to end???

[SeaFox]

The compilation albums are collage, obviously. You clearly don't understand the artistic genius of AC/DC!

Re:Begining to end???

[bill_mcgonigle]

were selling 45s

Looks like they released a new one last year.

But we don't really take their protests at face value - most likely album sales have taken a downturn, so it's time to unleash the 'digital' machine.

Re:Begining to end???

[bill_mcgonigle]

Bands don't necessarily have any say in how their music is distributed if they want a record deal. Sad but true.

So ... why this story?

Re:Begining to end???

[tilante]

Funny, then how AC/DC has released 5 singles since they've gained control over their own catalog - at least three of them after Angus made the comment mentioned above.

Re-fixed that for you. While they may not have had any say before, they certainly do have say since they bought their own catalog back... but they've continued to release singles.

Re:Begining to end???

[cyberchondriac]

What outrage? Just because they just didn't want to do it (not saying I agree with them) hardly earns a definition of outrage.

Re:Begining to end???

[mk1004]

AC/DC have never released a compilation album.

TFA says there were three. Here's one: http://www.amazon.com/Best-AC-DC-Top-Songs/dp/B004ASZXY6/ref=sr_1_22?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1353446380&sr=1-22&keywords=AC%2FDC

Re:Begining to end???

[mk1004]

Oops, that one's a cover band. Nevermind.

Re:Begining to end???

[evil_aaronm]

I've been to a number of AC/DC shows within the past few years and, lost in the sea of old farts, there's always a number of younger kids.

Re:Begining to end???

[evil_aaronm]

KISS need lights, makeup and effects to be entertaining. Angus just needs a shot of espresso. Guy's a maniac on stage. Always fun to watch.

Re:Begining to end???

[reub2000]

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/the-complete-collection/id579356406

Re:Begining to end???

[aardvarkjoe]

I wrote about this above... in terms of AC/DC using it it's just an excuse.

If it's just an excuse, then what was the real reason?

I'm serious about that question -- I can't think of any particular ulterior motive that they could have to withholding a digital release. Perhaps they were trying to negotiate for a better deal, but that seems like a fairly roundabout way to do it when they could have just said "we want more money."

Re:Begining to end???

[TapeCutter]

There is "some" good coming out

It's always been that way, that's the stuff that lasts. Remeber that "Happy Days" was 1950's nostaligia made in the seventies, that's like a nostalgic show today about the 80's. Talking about nostalgia, the first time I saw AC/DC they were playing for free at a local footy oval in the early 70's, I had no idea who they were but I liked them then and still do.

Re:Begining to end???

[hrimhari]

I can't think of any particular ulterior motive that they could have to withholding a digital release.

Ok, what about "digital release makes it extremely easy for the consumer to decide which songs are worth buying"?

Re:Begining to end???

[styrotech]

Well, they also did Iron Man 2 -- which no matter what your opinion of the movie, made a butt-load of money and got them exposure.

Iron Man? What? Was Sabbath out of town that weekend or something?

Re:Begining to end???

[Raenex]

I think a lot if it has to do with the dearth of good music coming out today...actually since the 90's I'd say.

You're Getting Old

Too late

[Beardo the Bearded]

Hey guys, it's cool that you held out for so long and were all principled, but I've already got copies of most of your work.

I paid somewhat less than what iTunes is suggesting. I guess you win.

Re:Too late

[jaymz666]

Looks like I can get the CD NEW from Amazon for many of these albums cheaper than itunes sells the download version... disconnect much

Re:Too late

[Bill_the_Engineer]

That's because all those unwanted CDs take too much space and need to be sold at clearance.

Re:Too late

[TheRaven64]

I've found that with all of the music that I've considered buying on iTunes. Most things seem to be 20-50% cheaper (including delivery) if you buy the shiny plastic disc than if you get them from iTunes. I guess that's the price that you pay for immediacy. Or, I suppose if listen to bands that suck and only produce one track per album that's worth listening to then it's cheaper to buy a single track on iTunes than an entire album anywhere...

Re:Too late

[Beardo the Bearded]

Looks like I can get the CD NEW from Amazon for many of these albums cheaper than itunes sells the download version... disconnect much

I'm sure I've got a player for an optical disk somewhere in my house. It might be in the computer that's unplugged and sitting in pieces under my old desk in the basement.

Re:Too late

[jaymz666]

And everyone who isn't as cool as you can easily rip a CD in moments to a lossless audio codec and throw out that optical disk and still have spent less
on the album than a itunes purchase.

Re:Too late

[ColdWetDog]

THAT's why you have an old Pentium IV laptop complete with parallel, serial and a VGA ports sitting in the corner.

And why you boot it up and let XP update for a couple of hours. I just do this in the winter when I need a bit more warmth in the basement.

Re:Too late

[HornWumpus]

1981? $19/cd? BS.

Most good CDs are available at the used CD store.

Re:Too late

[phluid61]

Pretty sure that at this point they don't care that much about the money. I'm inclined to believe Angus when he says he cares about it from an artistic experience perspective. Still doesn't explain the sale of singles and radio play, though.

Re:Too late

[jaymz666]

AC/DC, Back in Black, brand new, 7.64 at amazon on CD

Maybe you need to look again.

hold out?

[slashmydots]

I really don't think The Beatles' situation would be called a "hold out" lol.

Re:hold out?

[Aardpig]

Shut the fuck up, Donny! V.I. Lenin. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov!

Re:hold out?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just a game Smoky.

Whatever

[Anonymous Coward]

The only thing that's ruined music is the boring croonings of these severely overrated hacks.
I don't know if AC/DC was just before my time (I'm 30 FFS) but AC/DC is seriously some of the most boring and bland "Metal" I've ever encountered. Maybe it was edgy back in the day, whatever. I don't know.

Them and KISS. Well, they have a fun shock/brand thing going but that just puts them on the same level as Gwar. And I'd much rather go to a Gwar concert. Being fed to the giant foam rubber world maggot in an early 90's concert is one of the highlights of my life.

Re:Whatever

[jaymz666]

AC/DC aren't Metal. Never have been. They are rock or hard rock. No matter what anyone says.

Re:Whatever

[MightyMartian]

AC/DC isn't metal. They're stuff is pretty much juiced up rock and roll and they happen to have as a key member probably one of the best blues guitarists around.

Re:Whatever

[Jeng]

I agree Gwar concerts are some of the most fun concerts one can go to.

I still remember going to the "When the shit hits the fans" tour, my contacts were dyed bright blue for around a month from all the stuff they sprayed the crowd with. My eyes were already very blue, this made them damn near glow.

Re:Whatever

[crazyjj]

AC/DC was never meant to be thoughtful metal. They were a fun hard rock band, and that's all they ever aimed for (and they were great at it). It's not like they were writing songs about politics or social issues. Megadeth those boys weren't, but they weren't trying to be either.

Re:Whatever

[SteffenM]

My eyes were already very blue, this made them damn near glow.

They were spraying the crowd with Melange?

Re:Whatever

[Jeng]

Naw, it only colored the contact lens, not the whites of my eyes, now that would have been REALLY cool.

Re:Whatever

[HornWumpus]

GWAR rules live. I thought I was going to die. I really think they hate their fans. When they started playing about the front three rows where knocked over. I was picking up then boosting girls on top of the crowd, so they could crowdsurf to safety. Looked up and looked Oderous in the eyes. He could see people were in trouble. They grabbed a gear and rocked _even_ harder. It was cool.

Re:Whatever

[Jeng]

Hmm, the place I saw them was an old movie theatre with the seats removed, I think it was called The Strand. It wasn't an intense mosh bit, was rather relaxed as far as mosh pits go, just a few idiots.

Slymentra hymen was fingering herself when I looked up, as a teen that was pretty cool.

Re:Whatever

[Anonymous Coward]

You dont know what a Blues riff is do you?

Hint : Listen to AC/DC and get an education

Re:Whatever

[gtall]

Were? They just finished a tour in 2011. My guess is they'll have another coming up shortly. Heavy metal, hard rock, etc. are very popular...probably not as popular as hip-hop or whatever monotoned crack many listen to, but they have their niche and their own concert venues which tend to sell out. Hell, even Deep Purple is still touring. Jon Lord retired in 2002 and then died just earlier this year. Ritchie Blackmore was replaced with Steve Morse sometime in the 1990's. The keyboardist is Don Airey who's played with just about every hard rock band. Ian Gillan's voice has seen better days but at 70+, we should cut him some slack. And the original muppet Animal, Ian Paice might be a tad slower, but he's still one killer drummer.

Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, and a host of others are still kicking.

Re:Whatever

[HornWumpus]

It wasn't so much the pit as the crush in front of the pit. When they started playing the crush basically fell over like dominoes (strangely first 2 rows to the left, next 2 to the right). Anybody under 6ft was in real danger of being trampled.

They saw this and played harder.

Re:Whatever

[evil_aaronm]

I saw them in Cleveland and Buffalo. Man, I hope I have half as much energy as Angus when I'm his age. MF'er rocks!

Re:Whatever

[TapeCutter]

I'm 53 FFS, who the fuck are Gwar?

Re:Whatever

[jonwil]

Obviously you haven't heard the GOOD AC/DC songs :)
Go listen to "Its a long way to the top if you wanna rock n roll" (the bagpipe bit from that song is my current SMS ringtone :)

Listening to an album from start to finish...

[Anonymous Coward]

Easy there, Brian... Back in Black is a good CD, but it isn't exactly Dark Side of The Moon.

Re:Listening to an album from start to finish...

[MightyMartian]

Sales figures would suggest otherwise. Both have nearly equal global sales, and are among the biggest sellers of all time.

Love DSOTM, but there's nothing quite like the experience Back In Black played very loud while cruising down the highway.

Re:Listening to an album from start to finish...

[geekoid]

So is Whitney Houston. Point?

Once old man said to me

[mapkinase]

Once old (and wise) man said to me: "people are not getting better with age". Now, old man myself, the wisdom of this saying is getting to me more and more.

With age we do not get wiser, we do not get better, we do not get stronger, we do not get more moral.

Instead of wisdom we get inability to learn, so we only can teach. Instead of getting more moral, we just get more nostalgic of the non-existent times.

By Time,
Every man is at loss
Except those who believe, do good deeds
And call others to Patience and Truth.

Re:Once old man said to me

[SensitiveMale]

I wish I had mod points right now. Your entire post was idiotic.

And wrong.

Re:Once old man said to me

[Anonymous Coward]

And your father was a hamster and your mother smelled of elderberries!

Re:Once old man said to me

[SleazyRidr]

Your post was quite idiotic, too. Calling someone wrong doesn't make you sound smart. If you share a little more information about why they're wrong and maybe help them get to be right, that might make you sound smart.

Re:Once old man said to me

[Jeng]

Then you would have been modding incorrectly.

If someone is wrong you don't mod them down, you explain why they are wrong, that is why there is not a -1 Wrong option.

Re:Once old man said to me

[geekoid]

As someone who is rocketing through, what I will overly optimistically cal middle age, I can tell you that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
I mean, just stunningly stupid.

There are many thing where I can out perform men half my age. Hell, I can beat most die hard teens in FPS becasue my experience allows me to out think them.
I am wiser, and more knowledgeable. I learn every day.
If you aren't actually learning, then you need to sit down and teach yourself critical thinking skills and think about everything.

", so we only can teach"
ONLY teach? passing on information to the next generation is what allows humans to do awesome things.

" we just get more nostalgic of the non-existent times."
The older I get, the better I was. hehe.

It's not age you are talking about, it's laziness and ignorance.

Re:Once old man said to me

[mapkinase]

How old are you?

Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[tepples]

Vinyl records have index marks where the grooves are more widely spaced. CDs have index marks in the table of contents. If you want to make your album a unit, make it one continuous mix like a Mike Oldfield album.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[xaxa]

CDs specify a pause before each track. Usually it's 2 seconds (my old player counts down -0:02, -0:01, 0:00, 0:01), but it can be set to zero, in which case there's no gap at all, and the index is just a pointer to a frame to start playback from.

I have a few electronic albums like this.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[MightyYar]

All audio CDs following the Redbook standard are a single data stream, so I'm not sure where you are going with your argument. It is true that tracks are delineated only by the Table of Contents, but why would AC/DC program a Table of Contents if the Disc was intended to be listened to only in it's entirety?

I propose that they are completely full of shit.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[Richy_T]

I believe it's MP3s which have the 2 second pause. The GP's CDs are probably compiled from MP3s. It's probably why I also see messages about "gap information" when I'm transfering MP3s to my ipod with fubar 2000

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[Gr8Apes]

CDs specify a pause before each track. Usually it's 2 seconds (my old player counts down -0:02, -0:01, 0:00, 0:01), but it can be set to zero, in which case there's no gap at all, and the index is just a pointer to a frame to start playback from.

I have a few electronic albums like this.

CDs do not specify a pause at all. The pause you're most likely referring to was that moronic burning software from the late 90s early 2000s that had those default options. A player that imposed such a moronic concept on its CDs would destroy the flow of an album like NIN's Pretty Hate Machine, from 1989, among others. Many CDs are mastered with a "quiet" period of approximately a second or so between songs, matching the pauses between songs on LPs, which were the visible areas (widely spaced grooves) so that a person could drop the needle near the beginning of a particular song of interest. There are also LPs where an entire side appears or sounds as one track - I believe side A of Tangerine Dream's Force Majeure and Rush's 2112 were 2 samples, but it's been a long time since I broke out any vinyl.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[mabhatter654]

The PUBLISHER made the discs that way... Not the artist.

Of course the artist "made" the albums on dozens of different pieces of individual tape per track and often multiple takes per song. A Record or CD is like selling us a "picture" of an oil painting... Not the Actual painting with all the bumps and rough spots. The "Origanal Art" is the spliced up mix that can only be listened to on original recording equipment... ... Just to be specific.... Besides has AC/DC released anything since CD was INVENTED anyway?

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[Anonymous Coward]

CDs do not specify a pause at all.

Sure they do. It's called INDEX 00 and shows in a CD player as countdown before the proper song start. Also known as the 'pregap', this was widely used on almost all CDs made in the 80s and 90s:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregap

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[xaxa]

An AC replied with this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregap which is what I was thinking of.

I don't know any more about the subject, so I won't pretend to.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[tlhIngan]

CDs do not specify a pause at all. The pause you're most likely referring to was that moronic burning software from the late 90s early 2000s that had those default options. A player that imposed such a moronic concept on its CDs would destroy the flow of an album like NIN's Pretty Hate Machine, from 1989, among others. Many CDs are mastered with a "quiet" period of approximately a second or so between songs, matching the pauses between songs on LPs, which were the visible areas (widely spaced grooves) so that a person could drop the needle near the beginning of a particular song of interest. There are also LPs where an entire side appears or sounds as one track - I believe side A of Tangerine Dream's Force Majeure and Rush's 2112 were 2 samples, but it's been a long time since I broke out any vinyl.

The track lead-in/leadout (1 second at the beginning, 1 second at the end) is really just a "landing zone" for the read head. A CD head is not particularly accurate - just because you give a HH:MM:SS.ff (frame) in the TOC doesn't mean if you select Track 3, you'll hit it exactly. In fact, you're likely to be quite a ways off. The quiet period simply lets the head be up to a second off either way without accidentally playing back the previous track or cutting into the next track.

Data CDs kept this for the same reason - a multisession CD also has the same limitation (each new session "patches" the prevoius session so it has to seek around and needs a landing zone).

Bad CD burner apps only do "track at once" mode where it writes a track at a time. This means every track requires a mandatory leadin/leadout (and a write to the TOC), and for audio, that means a quiet period of about a second. If you master in "disc at once" mode, you can lay down tracks with no quiet periods which is how you do "live" CDs with no quiet between songs (the TOC is written at the beginning). TAO does allow you to add tracks at the end, as the disc isn't closed, while DAO tends to force closing of the disc when it's done.

Sometimes shortening the leadout of the disc can give you a few extra MB of storage

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[Lefty2446]

-1 Modded wrong. With your 6 digit UID you must have registered when you were 6.
CD's are a continuous stream with the option of having track pauses. This information is stored in the TOC

http://www.t10.org/cgi-bin/ac.pl?t=f&f=mmc3r01.pdf PP36-45

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[Stiletto]

In the history of musicians giving a huge "fuck you" to their labels, it's tough to beat that album.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[operagost]

The CD format was released in 1982 so, yes.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[Pieroxy]

Nope. in the TOC of an audio CD you can define pauses in between tracks. MP3 doesn't define any pause at all although it is a pain for gapless playback but for an entirely different reason: The length (in time) of an MP3 file is not as precise as the sampling rate, hence a fraction of a second of blank between two songs as a regular encoder will err on encoding a song in an MP3 file slightly longer than the original in order to preserve the full length of the file.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[RabidReindeer]

CDs specify a pause before each track. Usually it's 2 seconds (my old player counts down -0:02, -0:01, 0:00, 0:01), but it can be set to zero, in which case there's no gap at all, and the index is just a pointer to a frame to start playback from.

I have a few electronic albums like this.

CDs do not specify a pause at all. The pause you're most likely referring to was that moronic burning software from the late 90s early 2000s that had those default options. A player that imposed such a moronic concept on its CDs would destroy the flow of an album like NIN's Pretty Hate Machine, from 1989, among others. Many CDs are mastered with a "quiet" period of approximately a second or so between songs, matching the pauses between songs on LPs, which were the visible areas (widely spaced grooves) so that a person could drop the needle near the beginning of a particular song of interest. There are also LPs where an entire side appears or sounds as one track - I believe side A of Tangerine Dream's Force Majeure and Rush's 2112 were 2 samples, but it's been a long time since I broke out any vinyl.

Morton Subotnik did a (vinyl) album titled "Butterflies". In addition to the "butterfly" motif of the sounds on the album in the sonic shape of 2 large "wings" with a narrow "body" between them, the tracks on the vinyl were also "butterfly" shaped, with 2 large bands and a narrow band on each side of the disc. You could see the band pattern very distinctly.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[Mabhatter]

They were still more prolific before CD... The made nine records in under ten years before CD (1983 doesnt count because they had already started it) and only seven Discs since then. They've only been 1/3 as productive in the digital age...

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[Sketchly]

No! Please don't suggest that anyone, ever, makes anything resembling a Mike Oldfield album!

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[harperska]

That definition seems a bit pedantic. A better fine art analogy would be to compare a CD to a cast bronze sculpture. The artist initially works in one medium (clay/wax, recording tape), and then a process is undertaken to copy that work to a more permanent medium (bronze, record/CD). The actual final work of art is the durable copy, and the malleable original is just the means to create it.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[jaymz666]

This really messes up live albums at times...

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[MightyYar]

Presumably, AC/DC gave the publisher permission to sell their music, despite the prevailing format including tracks. They also let their stuff get played on the radio. I'm definitely sticking with "full of shit".

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[djrobxx]

Standard MP3s have unspecified, small gaps at the beginning and end (encoder delay and padding). Players cannot accurately determine where the audio is supposed to start and finish. LAME and Apple encoders can both add "proprietary" tags inform the player of the appropriate locations, which allow MP3s to play gapless by players that support the tag. Apple doesn't support LAME tags.

I've been making continuous-play dance mix CDs since the mid 90's. Back then Jeff Arnold's DAO (later became CDRWin) used to be one of the only authoring tools you could use to get continuous play CDs. Without it, standard Track-At-Once mode would always produce a 2 second gap.

There is a a fun thing you can do with the pregap area on a CD. You can make a "hidden" track by putting audio in Track 1's pregap. Virtually all players will skip past it when you first play the CD, but you can almost always hold the rewind button to access that area.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[chrismcb]

Most books are meant to be read in its entirety, yet they still have chapters...

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[PFactor]

Yeah, I wish iTunes would let me buy just the last chapter of a book so I can learn whether the butler did it or not.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[Gr8Apes]

Thanks for the thorough explanation on the burning software and gaps they imposed. Multi-session CDs never did well for me - and I only tried a few before ditching that approach. CD blanks costs dropped, so my mutl-session process was create a new image and burn that on a new disk, throw away old disk. This also significantly improved my burn success rates. There was also the issue that "open" CDs did not play in my CD players.

I don't buy the landing zone explanation. It doesn't matter to the CD player, it seeks the proper start point and then plays when it hits the proper time. Having several CDs that have continuous flow, when I select an index - it jumps right to the same spot to start playing as near as I can tell. It certainly doesn't vary by up to a second. That doesn't mean this isn't correct, I'm just not convinced.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[MightyYar]

That's a good point, but the consumption of a book is rarely possible in one sitting.

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[drinkypoo]

Data CDs kept this for the same reason - a multisession CD also has the same limitation (each new session "patches" the prevoius session so it has to seek around and needs a landing zone).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this persists all the way into DVD-R in some form, though not into DVD+R?

Re:Most albums have index marks, unlike Amarok

[Richy_T]

Interesting info from all the repliers. I have no idea where I picked up the wrong info from but it's always good to have incorrect knowledge corrected.

Artist Rights and Wrongs

[AmericaRunsOnDunkin]

Attention artistic narcissists:

• You have the right to create beautiful works of art that stir people's souls.
• You have the right to keep your work private and only share it with those you want in the way you want.
• You have the right to release your work to the public and try to profit commercially from it.
• You DO NOT have the right to tell me how to experience your work. Once I have access to your album / song / painting / show, I can chop it up, listen to it backward, peer at it in a funhouse mirror, or feed it to my dog if I so desire.

In short, your right to swing your art ends at my nose. That is all.

Re:Artist Rights and Wrongs

[Imagix]

Check out Christopher Tin's Calling All Dawns. That CD sounds awesome listening to it all the way through. The songs have a thematic connection in the order that they're presented. Having said that, there's a couple tracks in there that are really good on their own. I haven't heard Mr. Tin complain that you can buy Baba Yetu on it's own.... (heck, it was in a video game as the theme song....)

Re:Artist Rights and Wrongs

[geekoid]

And his work is in the minority. Sadly.
Yeah, listening to pretty much any BOC, PF, Rush album as a work is well worth the time.

For those about to post we SALUTE you!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

It was a fast machine, she kept her buffers clean
Was the biggest damn kernel that I ever seen
It wasn't crap from Fry's or a Rasberry Pi
Knocking me out with those solid state drives

Bootin up from the share, fast as a mac book air

Looked for the root folder but I was already there

The case started shaking, doom started quaking

My mind was aching, we were making it

And you shook me all night long

Yeah, you shook me all night long

Re:For those about to post we SALUTE you!!!!

[Sloppy]

My personal version from 1984:

It was a nice machine
I kept the keyboard clean
It was the best damn computer that I ever seen

Five Twelve Kay
Blew my mind away
A lot of memory I must say

Parallel interface
Transfer data with grace
And dual disk drives with plenty disk space

We were playin' Donkey Kong
But before long
Somethin' went wrong, my computer's long gone

'Cause you
Poured Coke on my keyboard
Yeah you
Poured Coke on my keyboard

The screen went berserk
Thought it was just a quirk
But then the printhead started to jerk

The repairman spoke
Laughed like it was a joke
They were full of Coke, my chips were soaked

Any other verses have been lost. Sorry about the awful chorus meter.

The "parallel interface" stuff is a reference to my unhappiness with the 1541's serial bus. Nowdays, serial buses are preferred. Funny how things work out. The liquids on keyboards thing is sort of a reference to one of the alleged features of the upcoming(?) Apple IIc (not that I ever actually saw one of those), which was supposedly highly resistant to such disasters.

Oh yeah, and AC/DC has been in the "digital marketplace" for at least two decades (whenever they started allowing the CDs to be published). And I'd like to stick Brian Johnson's "you're going to kill [commercial] music" comment right back in his face, since the very best way to kill commercial music is to tell paying customers "fuck off, we don't want your money."

No longer relevant

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry guys, your work was good 20-30 years ago, but most of us don't care anymore.

And the few of us who do care already have your stuff on CD and can rip it ourselves, or buy a used CD and rip that.

Re:No longer relevant

[Anonymous Coward]

>Sorry guys, your work was good 20-30 years ago, but most of us don't care anymore.

gtfo.

Re:Spite

[Sir_Sri]

Not necessarily. They'll probably get a flood of purchases from people when they go live on itunes, people who wanted their music could still order CD's and rip them. And their primary compensation at this point might not be from music sales anyway.

This may have actually made them money, people who only wanted on track gave up and bought a CD and ripped it, as long as the amount they earned from that is more than they lost to piracy from people not wanting to buy a full album for one song they ended up ahead, and demographics have now shifted so far that no one in their target customer base is going to be buying full CD's anyway.

They only really get to sell you a song once on CD or iTunes, you don't need to buy it to format shift it after all. So the more CD's they sold for 10 dollars rather than single tracks for 1 the better (for them). But the market I suspect finally fell out completely for CD's in the last year. Even dedicated music shops near where I am don't allocate more than a third of their floorspace to CD's anymore. There might be a few specialty hold outs, but that who industry is gone, finally.

Change is teh bad

[theangrypeon]

in the words of singer Brian Johnson, 'going to kill our obsolete business model if they're not careful,'

FTFY

When I sell a painting it's part of a show

[kawabago]

When I have a show of my paintings I don't insist someone buy all of them or none of them. I want people to buy the one work that speaks directly to them. Some works never sell and they are taken out of their frames and put away for posterity. I care very deeply what happens to my art work but I certainly don't worry about how people view it. That they do view it is what matters to me.

Violating the sanctity of "Givin the Dog a Bone"

[T.E.D.]

— submitting that the group's albums were designed to be listened to from beginning to end.

I could easily see that argument for a Pink Floyd album, but AC/DC? Really?

I mean, seriously. This is from a fan. I've probably listened to the Back in Black album straight through cover to cover more than all but two or three people walking this earth, band members included. I'd agree that the song ordering on there is probably better than a random one would be (note: the "Title track" leads off side 2 rather than 1, which is interesting, but it works).

But would I ever sit down and argue with someone that its a travesty to listen to "Shake a Leg" without following it up immediately with "Rock and Roll Ain't Noise Pollution"? Hell no! Just listen to it and enjoy.

Re:akadacka

[HaZardman27]

3) I too find the idea of a great acdc song blasting out of some gen z tiny earphones right next to some gawdaful pop track by my chemical romance sick that I wouldn't want to see it on itunes either.

Thank you for informing us that only teens purchase and consume music in digital format, and that music in such a format can only be heard through crappy earphones. If you're too old and stubborn to appreciate the convenience and quality of digital music, that's fine, but do us all a favor and stop pretending that you know better than us or are on to something.

4) Itunes killed the record store. Which sucks.

Obviously the record store was an inferior business model. That's called progress.

Re:Spite

[JudgeFurious]

I imagine far more people who only wanted one track downloaded it illegally instead of buying it. I know I did. In fact a long time ago I added these guys to my "Metallica Response Plan" and downloaded their entire discography in FLAC whereupon I proceeded to give it away freely to every person I encountered who expressed the slightest bit of interest in it. People like this slow the world down.

Oblig

[moeinvt]

Come on come on, lovin' for the money
Come on, come on, listen to the money talk

It's like an artist who does a painting,then hides

[D4C5CE]

it from view?

AC/DC - Dual Power Heating Pad

[carrier lost]

Thirty-year-old rock group with fifty-year-old members:

"I'm on the sidewalk to heck"

Re:AC/DC - Dual Power Heating Pad

[geekoid]

You should probably add 10+ to each of those years.

I'm going to go weep over my lost youth now.

Re:AC/DC - Dual Power Heating Pad

[carrier lost]

Please say it's not so - I remember thinking that "AC/DC" was what the "kids" were listening to now...

Re:AC/DC - Dual Power Heating Pad

[NEW22]

Actually they are a 40 year old group (founded in '73). 30 years ago they came out with "Back in Black" (1980), which is the 1st album with Brian Johnson on vocals, but before that you had a the years of Bon Scott singing "TNT", "Whole Lotta Rosie", "Dirty Deeds (Done Dirt Cheap)" etc.

Re:AC/DC - Dual Power Heating Pad

[carrier lost]

Hey, thanks

To me, at the time - I graduated high school in '73 - rock and roll was Beatles, Stones and The Who.

It may not be as apparent now, but AC/DC when I first heard them, seemed to do a lot more screaming than singing.

Which is not to say that I didn't like them - I did. But they definitely nudged the dial up closer to 11.

Re:akadacka

[JudgeFurious]

The record store died long before iTunes son. Go talk to Walmart about that issue. Other than that little detail "as you were".

Fucking pretentious asshole

[sootman]

Yeah, because you really can't appreciate the subtle nuances of "Sink the Pink" unless you hear it after "Danger" as originally intended in 1985. Or, um, after "D.T." in 1986. Right. Anyway...

I love their music, but seriously, he's full of shit.

The pinball game came out with mix of music

[Joe_Dragon]

The pinball game came out with mix of music from there albums and you get the pick songs as well.

Re:akadacka

[CanHasDIY]

4) Itunes killed the record store. Which sucks.

Wax Tracks, Vintage Vinyl, and these guys beg to differ.

Looking around the town I live in, there are no less than 5 record stores still around, all apparently doing quite well for themselves.

Personally, I think there will always be a market for the 'durable good' version of digital things, as it's a lot harder for Amazon (or whoever) to remove my CD collection from my house than it is to just close my account and deny me access.

Digital distribution is a fad, just hasn't hit the backlash point yet.

Re:Spite

[Jeng]

I prefer to just pick up old cds at half price books and other places used cds are sold. Starting to get the physical copies of what I pirated.

Everyone that likes ACDC...

[Nyder]

... has already converted their DVD's or downloaded flac's (or mp3's) of them already.

Billboard

[Dunge]

Funny because I got a huge billboard sign next to me saying "AC/DC Now on iTunes!"

No one listens to albums anymore.

[gelfling]

The long form factor where anyone listens to an entire album has been dead for years. Dead Dead Dead. No one even listens to whole tunes either. And why bother, it's all shit.

Re:Violating the sanctity of "Givin the Dog a Bone

[Dan East]

There's one thing I can always count on Slashdot for, be it quantum physics, obscure linux distros, a complex mathematical proof, or AC/DC music - there's always a hardcore expert that provides needed insight. LOL

Re:best albums for in the car

[HornWumpus]

DSOTM is best played in the car when the inside of the car is smokey. Very smokey.

No one?

[Richy_T]

"Come on, come on, listen to the money talk"

Re:No one?

[Richy_T]

Of course, in the 6.5 seconds between the time I check and I type it in and hit submit...

Re:akadacka

[Richy_T]

That's what open standards are for. You can bet Amazon can't erase my tape backup either.

"Finally"? What?

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

Who was waiting for this? Are people still excited about music getting downgraded to compressed formats? You people really don't listen to albums and CDs? You really listen to MP3s and compressed AAC using devices with DACs as poor as those found on RealTek chips and built into iPods? Really? This story and almost all of the comments have me baffled. I thought Slashdot was for nerds.

Re:Violating the sanctity of "Givin the Dog a Bone

[T.E.D.]

Really? You'd reorder the tracks on "Wish You Were" Here willy nilly? The album that is bookended with a continuation of the same song, and several of the tracks actually smothly transition into each other? You're cut up and reorder that?

That's it AC! I've had it. I've put up with your sillyness for over a decade with no complaint, but you are now officially dead to me.

Re:akadacka

[geekoid]

HAHAHA.. Seriopusly?

First off, the lik to a list of record stores? 15 years ago there would have been 1000's in the US., not 110.
SO pretty poor 'evidence'.
The other one sells used music.

It is,. at best, a niche market for hipsters, or people who actually have no clue how horrid vinyl was.

Frankly, I don't miss them. I thought I would, but I don't.
They where either chain people who hired no nothing, or small shops with pretentious douche bags.

I keep a copy of my music locally..and on Google music.
In fact, my music is likely to last longer then your hard copies becasue every 2 years, it's gets put on a new HD or devices.

Bring on Jimi

[DeathElk]

So the Jimi Hendrix estate must still be holding out... or is Jimi's catalogue only not available in iTunes Australia?

Re:Violating the sanctity of "Givin the Dog a Bone

[vrt3]

(note: the "Title track" leads off side 2 rather than 1, which is interesting, but it works).

This happens on many albums. Some time ago I read the reason for that, but I forgot what it was. It's not only on vinyl; even on CD the title track is often around track 6-7.

Re:best albums for in the car

[evil_aaronm]

I crashed my car to "Comfortably Numb." Seriously. Ok, it's The Wall, not DSOTM. After staying up until 4:00 am to prep for a 9:00 am appointment two hours away - 6:30 am wakeup call - something mellow like Comfortably Numb, while a good song in other respects, was not what I needed on the drive home. Fell asleep and continued straight where the road curved left. Fortunately, the snow bank stopped me and no one was injured. I've never fallen asleep at the wheel since, though I do crack the window for fresh air when Comfortably Numb comes on.

Re:"Finally"? What?

[evil_aaronm]

Um, me? I got better things to do than go to Wal-Mart, buy the CD, rip it to iTunes just so I can listen to music two, maybe three times a month. I've waited for AC/DC to join iTunes so I can just click a mouse a couple of times and have the songs I want, and only those songs. If your perspective is different, sit back and marvel at the fact that we're all unique "works of art" in the tapestry that is humanity. Holy crap - what's in that caffeine pill I just took...

Re:"Finally"? What?

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

What's Wal-Mart?

What it boils down to is that...

[twistedcubic]

...eventually, muthafukas wanna get paid!

Artistic Integrity

[n7ytd]

[...] submitting that the group's albums were designed to be listened to from beginning to end. 'It's like an artist who does a painting,' he said in 2008. 'If he thinks it's a great piece of work, he protects it. It's the same thing: This is our work [...]

Apparently their work is worth protecting, until the pricetag is high enough.

love AC/DC; Apples are poisonous

[johnwerneken]

Love AC/DC hope they get paid. Hate Apple, hope they don't. Apple is a communist outfit, where the totalitarian rules and the captive populace are the prison guards. Just like Russia lol. Slow stupid powerful and dangerous, enemies of freedom, both Apple and Russia.

AC/DC being apostles of freedom had multiple reasons for waiting lol.

Re:love AC/DC; Apples are poisonous

[T.E.D.]

Apple is a communist outfit,

It is patently rediculous statements like this that make me wonder if the word "communist" has any real meaning anymore.

It's like there's its traditional meanings in the dictionary, then right underneath is:

4. (Modern) syn - poopy-head.

Re:Spite

[reub2000]

Wait, you've been freely giving out copies of St. Anger to people? You are a sadistic fucker!

Yeah

[njfuzzy]

AC/DC were so smart, never to release their songs on the radio, as singles, or in movie soundtracks. By demanding "whole album or nothing" they really proved their point on this whole issue.

Or in the words of Angus himself

[Riktov]

"I'm sick and tired of people saying that we put out 11 albums that sound exactly the same. In fact, we've put out 12 albums that sound exactly the same."

Re:best albums for in the car

[Macgrrl]

My husband listens to DSOTM almost daily.

-shrug-

[buss_error]

I quit purchasing IP from clueless labels (read members of RIIA) long ago. I take nothing from them, I give nothing to them. If I didn't already own a CD from that artist so I could legally rip the music, I went without. I'd switch them off if I was listening to the radio. At worst, I'd buy a used copy for gifts, but even that made my teeth hurt.

Re:Violating the sanctity of "Givin the Dog a Bone

[kimvette]

Wish You Were Here, Animals, the final cut (yeah I know, arguably a Waters solo album), Dark Side of the Moon. Pretty much everything from DSotM forward.

Re:Violating the sanctity of "Givin the Dog a Bone

[T.E.D.]

...Which points to another sillyness about this supposed qualm of theirs.

Lead-off album tracks are sort of your intro into the work. They set a tone. Now with vinly LP's you have two such tracks, because you have to stop and flip the LP to listen to the other side. So putting your title track as the lead-off to side two still makes a statement. It mostly works fine on cassette too. Even if your player auto-switches, there's a delay there (sometimes sizeable if side 2 is longer than side 1).

But CD's don't have sides. So what was previously your opening tone-setting statement for side two is now just another song in the middle of the album somewhere.

So where was AC/DC's outrage about CD's? Why didn't they hold out for years against this horrible perversion of the artistic statement of their song ordering? It couldn't have had anything to do with the fact that CD's ended up being more lucrative than vinyl, could it?

Seriously guys. I luv' ya, but STFU and take your money.

Re:Violating the sanctity of "Givin the Dog a Bone

[drinkypoo]

So where was AC/DC's outrage about CD's? Why didn't they hold out for years against this horrible perversion of the artistic statement of their song ordering? It couldn't have had anything to do with the fact that CD's ended up being more lucrative than vinyl, could it?

I don't suppose anyone's performed an examination of their CDs to find out if they left a long gap to emulate the vinyl flip :)

Thank you

[drinkypoo]

I laughed out loud. No, really.

On the other hand, some people really do just calcify.

Re:Violating the sanctity of "Givin the Dog a Bone

[T.E.D.]

Heh. Well, if by "examination" you mean putting it in a car CD player and listening to it over and over, the answer is "yes", I have certianly done that, and "no", they did not do that.

Re:Violating the sanctity of "Givin the Dog a Bone

[drinkypoo]

Heh. Well, if by "examination" you mean putting it in a car CD player and listening to it over and over, the answer is "yes", I have certianly done that, and "no", they did not do that.

That'll do. That seems to me to prove conclusively that they are full of shit; they didn't even use the means available to them to preserve the experience.

Too late jerks...

[Specter]

I bought a used copy of the CD and ripped it years and years ago. I'm lazy enough I would have just bought it had it been available on iTunes. Net revenue for you $0.