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Microsoft Security Essentials Loses AV-Test Certificate
helix2301 writes "Every two months, AV-Test takes a look at popular antivirus software and security suites and tests them in several ways. In their latest test which was performed on Windows 7 during September and October, Microsoft Security Essentials didn't pass the test to achieve certification. Although that may not sound that impressive, Microsoft's program was the only one which didn't receive AV-Test's certificate. For comparison, the other free antivirus software, including Avast, AVG and Panda Cloud did."
NOP
Seriously. Most anti-virus software is worse than getting a virus.
"Trust"? I don't know about that. But I at least thought it would satisfy the minimal needs I have for such a product. I'd been using AVG for years under XP - maybe I'll install that again.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Seems pretty good to me, and doesn't bug you to buy the full version like AVG does.
... wait, what?
i had a portable avast install on a usb drive that worked great back b4 i switched over to ubuntu several years ago
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Even the best AV is barely more than snake oil. The primary purpose of running AV software, at least in a business setting, is to have a ready made scapegoat for when security is breached.
I have Avast, which scored way better and guess what... It's free as well. Go figure...
Oh and to your analogy, it's like comparing Paint with Gimp.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
People rely on AVs against 0-day threats?
Except, if you actually read the whole summary let alone the article, this wasn't a free vs. costly comparison. Three free anti-virus programs performed better. So even free vs. free MS lost.
Ahem: "For comparison, the other free antivirus software, including Avast, AVG and Panda Cloud did". You know, there is not just the title.
We bought the full corprate version of AVG with all the wells and bristles. It decided unilaterally to push this to every PC company wide. It ground my computer to a stuttering grinding halt several times. It shut off the serial ports until they were called "Oh sorry we close those by default." Then those would break again and we'd have to call again. Then it started interfering with some kinds of IP traffic, "Oh we started closing those by default." with the same crap. Then it did something to the printers company wide, network printers. I was done with that and told my boss that I could not work with that crap on my PC. Calls were made and it was removed. I now run MSE and also a junk PC that strips off email attachment spew and web junk from anyone. If they can't send text screw them. I put up an autoresponse on the proxy to send an "Don't send attachments of pictures to this address, text only". So far it's worked. If they need to send something that's what the company secure FTP server is for and what we're paying good money for Barracuda to protect since they're incompetent at filtering crap from email.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
I can't even remember the last time I got a virus within 24 hours of it being revealed as existing. Once upon a time I recall seeing a Monkey A virus back in the 90's. If I recall, AV software wasn't even what revealed it, it was something I found on my own trying to fix someone else's busted box. I'll be keeping MSE installed. I've found many of the free AV programs to be cumbersome and slow, and quite frankly annoying about 'protecting my system' and 'staying updated'. Stay out of shady places and avoid file sharing except when necessary and it won't be a problem. Kind of like not raw dogging dirty hookers freely, common sense behavior if you don't want to catch the Cannasyphiliaids virus.
Seriously, does anyone actually trust Security Essentials? I'd rather have any of those other free AV products mentioned.
(shades of MSAV here)
Haven't you seen the comments here on slashdot? MSE IS THE BEST?! Only MSE works ... I have been using Windows for 5 years and with MSE I am AV free etc.
I have never seen it promoted as much all over the web as the best more secure AV product. Clearly it is not. It is one one of the lighter ones though compared to older versions of Norton and McCrappy.
http://saveie6.com/
Try Avast? It is much lighter and is free with registration. I like the gaming mode where it shuts up and doesn't bug and that is a plus. I quit using MSe over a year ago after it showed dissapointing results.
http://saveie6.com/
Umm... NO.
Avast, AVG, Avira, and others that are free for home personal usage does quite a bit better then MSE. MSE mainly specially fails at 0 day stuff which accounts for the majority of it's low score (a large 20% detection difference from the average). However, MSE is also the most light weight having about half the system slow downs as the average antivirus.
So, MSE is definitely the most lightweight but at the cost of detection compared to the others. For me, this is acceptable since otherwise, I wouldn't even bother with an antivirus program.
BitDefender Metro uses MSE. This is bad as many people think it is immune to malware because MSE still has a great reputation on the web as the best product. Can you even install AVAST or any other AV software on Windows 8 without it interferring with MSE?
http://saveie6.com/
So the free anti virus runs out of freeness. You need to renew your free licence. Yeah maybe later, I'm watching... something important.
You're no longer receiving virus definition files. Well who needs those anyway, you're still protected right?
Friend sends you a link that looks very legit because you're not sober, your free anti-virus seems to notice something, but you really wanted to see that other important video so you clicked allow.
Seems you needed those virus definition files after all
I don't want to sound like a fanboy, but it seems to me that they forget to mention that MSE doesn't expire?
Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
that certification is worth "zippo", because MSE works much better. (Which is not surprising, considering McAfee has "zippo" access to the Windows (binaries) internals.)
AVAST has blocked 2 pieces of malware for me over the years. It stopped it cold before it could be installed or ran. Good ones that are modern do a great job with high success rates.
http://saveie6.com/
The main reason I use MSE is that it does an adequate job and unlike every one of the competitors free or otherwise, installing it isn't worse than getting infected with Malware. Last time I used either AVG or Avast it was like infecting my PC on purpose. I'll pass up some protection against zero days(which is spotty at best anyway) in exchange for not installing crap.
We have a number of PCs from a one manufacturer on which Vipre cannot update itself. This has happened with more than one release. It is necessary to not only uninstall, but do a clean-up after uninstalling and then re-install the new version. After doing this on one machine, and then having a later release also fail to install, I won't bother with Vipre again.
On that basis, Vipre should lose points for usability.
Oh, and it also asks unprivileged (non-administrator) users to run the update. What's the point in that?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
A good ad blocker in your browser will be more effective in the long run than any AV software you install. Couple that with the common sense to not download and run every piece of crap you see on the internet and your computer will be fine. Every instance of an infection I've seen involved the person breaking one of those two simple rules.
Yup, I installed Avast when it was able to remove some malware that Norton did not even detect even after being updated.
The only problem with Avast is that you have to re-register every year. Minor, I know, but a pain nonetheless.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
It has a commercial version as well. The reason they state for having a free version, paraphrasing is that because more people running antivirus means fewer people overall getting viruses (especially paying customers). Same principle as vaccination.
I did until I read this.
Why, in 2012, are you afraid of attachments?
Kid-proof tablet..
By running Windows, you are already placing trust in Microsoft. Using MSE seems like a entirely logical extension of that.
That is to say, why bother yourself about one program from MS when you are using an entire OS made by them?
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
Many of the vectors of malware these days is through java/flash exploits, I always disable the java plugin in my browser and have flash click to play. I do have MSE on my computers and MalwareBytes for a monthly search and haven't run into any issues in many years. MSE has the least bloat/memory footprint AND the lowest false positive rating http://www.av-comparatives.org/images/docs/avc_fdt_201209_en.pdf puts it at 0, if you're getting hit by 0 day malware you're just not pirating software/being cautious enough with where you browse and no program will 100% save you. For family members I've always installed avast, it's slightly more intrusive but turn on 'silent/gaming mode' and it's not too bad other than putting in an email address once a year.
RL Vaccinations are an example of human intelligence triumphing over at least semi-stupid self replicating DNA chunks.
AV software is developed by humans trying to stop other humans, a much much more intractable problem, especially when the Virus developers always have the first move. The Virus developers can trivially test their software against the AV, with almost no effort. The AV developers have to expend tremendous effort to even try to catalog the threats, let alone combat them.
Most likely the very fact that Security Essentials is faring so badly, is due to the fact that the Virus writers are being especially sure to find ways around it before launching new malware.
how certain are you that it wasn't a false positive?
Anyone who knows anything about the internals of an antivirus research team know what a Joke AV-Test is.
the tests for years have been based on static collections of huge buckets of gathered samples.
The guys running the test have no actual malware analysis experience themselves .. its just a game all the big vendors are playing .. and really some of the the ones that seem to squeeze into top spot among the bigger players are small / tiny products that have no where near the same capabilities as the more mature ones.
Microsofts AV product is EASILY one of the top 3, or even top 2 in some of its features. Kaspersky clearly is the best if you're paranoid about detections.
All three antivirus checkers lose 3 points in just three months? also, "Yes, Windows Defender is enabled automatically when no other antivirus is present, but its technology comes from the Microsoft products that failed the recent tests. Don't rely on it. Install a better antivirus right away." sounds like an ad by one of its competitors
Damn, it sounds like you've had some really weird issues with AVG. Has it infected your monitors or power strips yet?
They're sent by ignorant people, they like to send large ones, they like to send highly offensive crap that isn't related to work. I got better things to do like take a nap.
Only the technically literate can operate the software needed to access the FTP site. We only give that client software to people who do not drool and pay us in cold hard cash (no really I got a $5 in a block of dry ice).
It gives me a chance to offend the stupid without having to actually do anything. My boss thinks I'm a technogod so I'm safe. I don't dance techno so the world is safe.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
Considering one was trying to run java from an ad on slashdot ... very unusual I say that one was malware. The other one was blocked but a UAC did prompt asking for permission to run to part of the hard drive that was a no no. So I say they were both trojans. It could be possible the other one could have got through and installed if I were stupid enough to not run as standard user and not administrator :-)
I keep preaching this to Windows Users to add passwords but the default user is always admin which is frustrating.
http://saveie6.com/
By running Windows, you are already placing trust in Microsoft. Using MSE seems like a entirely logical extension of that.
That is to say, why bother yourself about one program from MS when you are using an entire OS made by them?
So you are saying since the OS is crappy, it's no surprise that their other programs are crappy?
Be seeing you...
This is not surprising to me, and why I've always said the MSE is only for geeks that aren't going anywhere dodgy and thus at little risk to start with. For normal folks there is Avast Free and Comodo Internet Security. Avast is good, but a little chatty but some people like chatty, and Comodo is good and pretty customizable but has a bit of a learning curve since it has sandboxing but if you stick with the defaults other than the occasional sanbox question it works good without getting in your way.
But I have taken machines I've got to wipe and refurb anyway at the shop and thrown different AVs on them and went to the kinds of sites I've seen the most bugs from, usually the "look at teh tittez" dodgy clip porn sites like redtube and the usual toplists and MSE was the ONLY one that never stopped a page loading, even ones that were obviously filled with malware, the rest would at least block most and keep the embedded malware scripts from running but not MSE, MSE seems to be more of a "scan a downloaded file" kind of protection rather than any good for dealing with modern nasties.
Oh and for those that need to clean up an infected box? May I suggest Comodo Cleaning Essentials as its a great tool to have to clean up an already nasty PC. You can run it from a flash or CD, no need to install, and its damned good at getting the nasties out. as you can see it got 4 and a half stars and is free, so if you have to clean up any infected machines its best to have both the 32bit and 64bit on a keyring ready to go.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I would agree that 3/4 of AV success is avoiding "dodgy" sites. However, I have never had any problems with malware on any porn site. The sites I have had problems with malware on were like pics of celebrities on Google Images, and you get a redirect to a malware driveby site, or, you lick on an ad that promises things free that should not be ... that kind of thing. I Used to AVG 2012, but when it went to 2013 it refused to activate, so I switched to Avast, and have not looked back. Higher rated and better protection.
Don't explain computers to laymen. Simpler to explain sex to a virgin. -- Robert A. Heinlein
I stopped using AVG when they changed their license terms to unilaterally audit the location where the software is being used and gave themselves the right to unilaterally share my information with whomever they choose. - no thanks. See sections 9b and 12 of their license: - http://www.avg.com/us-en/eula-avg-2013-all-1-0
Because like their defragger while they can make a good OS they don't do the tools nearly as good? Like many products this is one MSFT bought from somebody else, specifically Giant AntiSpy...that's right, it wasn't a full fledged AV it was a lightweight spyware remover. Its good for geeks that aren't really going anywhere dodgy to start with, but its just not good at blocking drive bys or cleaning up after the fact.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I read an older post of yours last year and switched to AVAST as a result of frustrations with MSE. I never went back. I never tried Comodo though as I am more familiar with AVAST at this point and I love the gaming mode. I highly recommend AVAST.
Also did you know Comodo secure DNS service is free and you can google it to get the DNS IP addresses? That blocks malware right there even if you use another AV product. I still use www.livejournal.com which is owned by a shadowy marketing company that occasionally places malware ladden ads through its afliates. (Not often as I would not keep using it). After switching to Comodo DNS I notice the 404 error messages every blue moon and smirk in the ads. I did use Norton DNS which also blocks malware but it is slugish like their AV product. OpenDNS is good too if you pay for it as only subscribers get malware protection.
I would advise to do a fresh wipe on any infected box. I know it is cheaper at your shop probably becuase they can take awhile to backup the my documents and reinstall everything (the non free ninite MS office, autocad, etc), but for personal use you never know if another hole is there or if it didn't hide in a restore point? Damaged Windows systems are slow too and you simply can not trust your computer anymore without it.
http://saveie6.com/
FYI be careful with Avast free as an update blue-screened a Win8 laptop I was working on a while ago. It is a known problem now, but I would assume that MSE would be a bit more stable, if only because they *should* know the OS better.
However, if an AV can bring the OS to its knees something is wrong.
There was a scandal last year when OBL was killed and hackers found a way to infect your system just by doing a search OBL dead pics. You did not even have to click on anything. THe code ran through Google redirected through clever javascript hacks. So if your daughter does a search for puppy pictures she is instantly infected!
I am surprised it was mentioned only midly on slashdot as it took a few weeks to fix this and infected tens to hundreds of millions of pcs.
http://saveie6.com/
The only problem with Avast is that you have to re-register every year. Minor, I know, but a pain nonetheless.
the bonus with avast's system is that it doesn't actually make you PROVE that the email address is YOURS (code/link sent via email), it only asks for an email address and that's where it stops, so i've taken the habit of using @avast.com email addresses.
The first thing i used was postmaster@avast ( :D ) but when it started to complain that it's already used i switched to _current timestamp-YYYYMMDDHHMM_@avast, works like a charm
root@127.0.0.1
I've seen computers infected while running latest patched versions of: McAfee, AVG, MSE, Norton and Kaspersky, I'm guessing it's like which brand of hard drive is most reliable. Ask 3 months from now and get a different answer.
It regularly detects my mouse driver as malware and disables it. I have to unplug the mouse and move USB ports before I can use the mouse again.
Which part of "Microsoft Product" did I not understand?
Sigh...
Regularly? Definition of a slow learner.
I dunno about this article. I've used just about everything out there... I used Kaspersky for a very long time, and in my opinion was the best for a long while. I very rarely got an infection. But when I switched to MS Security Essentials I was DONE with virus. I haven't had a single computer in my house (and I have 5) get infected since I started using it. And just so you know I'm not a Microsoft shill, fuck Microsoft, they suck, I pirate their god damned OS... fuck em. Anyways, Security essentials works great. I rutinely still scan with other AV if I'm having any sort of issue just to be sure, but nothing. I really think it comes down to useability. It just works well and integrates with windows well.
The article talks alot about 0-day exploits and such... but really, how many of us are going to get hit with one of those? I mean yes, I'd rather be protected, but at the expense of some of the draconian tactics some other packages lock your computer up in? Install Bit Deffender and then try installing some open source, macroing utility or something and the damned thing goes nuts.
What kind of internal access to "Windows (binaries) internals" does MS have & McAfee not have which would be useful for virus detection?
I use the commercial Kaspersky which always comes out near the top, if not always best in AV tests, but why has no-one mentioned Noscript? I suspect it has saved me from all sorts of nastiness that my AV program never even got a chance to see.
Free AV software included with operating system scores significantly lower than competitor products that cost money. Shocking!
I remember back in the day, Netscape ruled the web, and internet explorer was a piece of crap that, while bundled with the operating system, nobody ever used. I remember when Microsoft first released mplayer, its first video player; Which looked sad and pathetic next to QuickTime. I remember how under Windows NT, the only method of defragmenting the filesystem was to reformat and start over, unless you bought Norton. I remember when Word Perfect was the only word processor anyone in the industry would recommend for professionals, and Microsoft Office was little more than notepad with a bag on the side. And I remember the first software firewalls by ZoneAlarm and others, compared to the pathetic XP firewall.
Yes, I'm probably older than you. Yes, you can laugh: But I have a lot of memory to draw on, and all you have is sarcasm. In every case, Microsoft steadily improved their own offerings, and the market for those products imploded. Today, anti-virus built-in to windows sucks but if history is anything to judge by, it won't stay that way for long. Now get the f*ck off my lawn, and take your iPhones with you. Some of us work for a living.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Oh no that could never be, could it?
> What's next, Ms paint found to be inferior to Photoshop in comprehensive image-editing software test?
You may jest but at least this guy would disagree ;-)
How to paint the MONA LISA with MS PAINT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2sPl_Z7ZU
It is refreshing to have a mature comment/conversation about surfing internet porn. Shame I have no mod points right now ;).
P2P torrent/ed2k porn is pretty safe to if you stick to avis/mpegs or other non-code-executable video files.
I used AVG2012 as well until the license died, then switched to Avast on my XP box, but left the Win7 box & laptops on MSE/Win7 F/W *shudder*.
Ok, it's not that bad, but I would really like a decent FREE AV/FW product that doesn't require a whole lotta attention, IYKWIM. AVG was ok until about 2 versions ago when they turned it into corpobloat & I left my old company that I got the licenses from in any case. We use F-Secure here, which I have no idea if it's good, bad or indifferent.
Is this MSE story just FUD, or is there really a compelling reason to abandon it on inet/download heavy Win PCs...?
> It is one one of the lighter ones though compared to older versions of Norton and McCrappy.
Exactly. For gamers it is "good enough" -- meaning it does the basics without doesn't grind your system to a halt like that crap Norton and McAfee used to do.
> I remember how under Windows NT, the only method of defragmenting the filesystem was to reformat and start over, unless you bought Norton.
Did you miss Diskeeper? :-) (Because Windows NT 3.51 did't even have an API for moving data clusters.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_Defragmenter_(Windows)
Thankfully, there is the open source jkdefrag now ... .. of course with SSDs defragging is slowlying becoming a moot point. ;-)
http://www.kessels.com/jkdefrag/
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article09-115
http://www.novahq.net/forum/archive/index.php?t-6237.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hfcFa8VOHQ
One problem with AV is that as detection rate rises, so does false positive rate. So far, nobody has found a way around this. So some products go for heavy detection, Bitdefender being a good example. Fair enough, but it comes at the cost of more false positives (and it still isn't a 100% detection rate).
MS goes the other way. They go for low false positives, and in the last AV Comapritives test they had 0, but at a lower detection rate.
Why? Well because they are going for the mass market, the people who didn't want virus scanners. If the thing bothers them all the time with false positives, they'll turn it off, and then they have 0% detection. So instead they go for a lower detection rate, but with low false positives so people get some protection.
I'm not calling it the right answer, but you can see the logic.
And for that matter, I've found that in the real world, MSE seems to do better than Sophos, which is decidedly not free and very popular in enterprise.
I'll save you the trouble reading. They're idiots. The winner out of all of them was bitdefender? That slows down your system like a damn boat anchor. I've had customers bring in a computer to my shop claiming it had a horrible problem and the only problem was that it had bitdefender. As soon as it was gone, responsive times dropped 10x lower. It's unbelievable how bad that product is. For them to not consider system performance in any way means they obviously have no idea what they're doing. The same goes for Kaspersky. Their new 2013 version is a nightmare for system performance. Norton Internet Security was third so yep, that's how responsible THESE idiots are.
However, if an AV can bring the OS to its knees something is wrong.
You have obviously never installed mcaffee before
Yes MSSE is not the best anti-virus software out there, but it is one of the only ones i feel safe that it will never ask me to install other promotional products, it will never try to load weird webpages or install spyware. It has no upgrades to a better paid for version that it frequently bugs you to upgrade to. It is probably the last offensive, least obtrusive, least annoying anti-virus software out there. Coupled with being behind a firewall and intelligence enough not to open binaries from questionable sources it works well enough.
http://interserver.net/
No, he's saying that there's not point in sticking a condom on your cock while MS is giving it to you up the arse from behind!
Perhaps not, but the condom may still protect you when they go for the reach-around.
I've had a few customers with trojans, from like 2009 and MS Sec. Essentials doesn't detect them with a quick scan. Only after a full scan did it see them.
These machines always had MSE running and up to date.
It's unfortunate that so many software companies write software such that it requires admin access or we could avoid so much of these infections.
Remember Melisa? I've had both Norton & Mcaffee miss it in an email. The only reason I even caught the damn thing was the attachment and the fact that I disabled the Hide Known Extensions default. No AV is perfect. I run MSE because it stays out of my way and provides enough protection that I'm satisified with it. If I'm infected badly, I'll wipe and do a clean install as it's faster. It's also why I keep good backups.
Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
I try not to lick ads... or see them at all for that matter, prevents a lot of malware. Linux helps too.
This is an idiotic statement. The primary purpose of running AV software in a business setting is to make sure that your users can't fuck your network with zero effort. AV makes them put a bit of effort in before it will fuck your network.
Keep on knockin'
https://robbiecrash.me
The problem with 0 day detection is it's often heuristic detection. And you can find numerous examples where it's gone wild and rendered systems completely unbootable because some system file matched the heuristic.
And it's happened to every vendor, except it seems, Microsoft. One definition update gone awry and a pile of systems go tits up because a critical system file got quarantined.
And then you have to weigh whether or not such aggressiveness is warranted - would you want such great 0-day protection only to run the risk that 6 hours down the road, your computer is unbootable and did you happen to have a backup?
A very fine line that has to be walked.
MSE is really and truly free. Or, perhaps more accurately the cost of it is included with a license of Windows. They don't want any more money for it, they don't try to upsell you, it does its job and that's that.
The others? They want you to buy the full version, so they have various ways of pestering you, some quite annoying. Heck AVG got to the point where even the paid version was highly annoying (I used to buy AVG, I buy ESET Smart Security now).
As such MSE is really the only free AV I recommend because it is well and truly free. You can do better, but only if you want to pay.
This isn't a very worthwhile mass market test. 0-day detection is an interesting stat, and not worthless, as is proactive testing (AV Comparitives does that, takes a 6 month old AV scanner and sees how it does against current threats) but it isn't really a concern for most people. Computer viruses spread, well, like viruses. Not a lot of people get exposed on day 0. So as long as your virus scanner is updated reasonably frequently, it does a reasonably good job with threats you are actually likely to face.
This is amazingly good.
Tomorrow is another day...
You want a good site for malware free Internet Porn? MyFreePaysite and "yes i know about links" but no I'm not gonna link to it because the last thing I want is it to be slashdotted. Anyway its the site i point those that get malware bugs to, its got something like 5000 DVDs worth of free porn and no malware. They make their money off selling toys and webcam whores, the usual. they have videos for just about everybody and they are actually good quality, sure you're not gonna get vivid production levels but the girls are hot, lighting and sound is good, most folks are quite happy with it.
And whether its FUD or not you really ought to look at Comodo internet Security, its damned good and pretty much just set and forget, and unlike MSE it has sandboxing by default which is frankly a smart thing to do with browsers, low rights mode or not. Its pretty low on resources, just depending on which parts you pick, for example I'm happy with windows Firewall in 7 so i didn't use their firewall, I don't download email so I didn't use that either, and I don't use P2P so i again didn't use that part. Nice thing about Comodo is while the defaults are perfectly fine you can tweak to your hearts content, everything from scanning rules to sandboxing levels to which components you use, its all easy to customize.
so give CIS a try, its free, its low resource, and unlike MSE it'll actually keep a site infected with malware from loading and tell you what it detected, i have NEVER seen MSE ever stop a page from loading, have you? personally i think its really more about just scanning downloaded files, because watching it in process Explorer while surfing i honestly couldn't detect it actually DOING anything, at least not until I downloaded something, then and ONLY then did its CPU and RAM usage go up.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Fuck man, you should see what it does to his sandwiches. I heard it out his wife into early menopause... and he doesn't even have a wife!
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
This part at least is true. I think many of us who have dealt with virus cleanup have seen cases where the installed AV simply didn't catch something.
We stopped setting up firewalls that only block known attacks years ago; today we configure them to block everything and only allow known good traffic. Yet we're effectively doing just that with antivirus - blocking known attacks. It's an absurd idea - there's maybe a dozen pieces of software we know we do want; that list expands slowly, we know when it will expand usually some time in advance. There's maybe tens of thousands of pieces of software we know we don't want. That list expands all the time and we have no idea what direction it will expand in next. So why are we even trying to keep track of it?
In case of anti-virus it's even worse so.
They provide the boat with leaky hull, and then they provide tools to help you plug the holes. Instead they should focus on not having holes in the hull to begin with.
Sounds like you should be looking for a better browser rather than a virus scanner. How exactly are these sites infecting you?
Anecdotal, but repeated experience; Uninstallation of Comodo Internet Security has utterly hosed the TCP/IP stack on my Win7 64bit box twice, to the point that reinstalling the OS was required. It works fine as long as you never, ever change your mind.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
MSE is not supposed to stop malware sites from loading, It is supposed to detect it when it tries to load onto your system and stop it from doing that. Stopping people from loading crakz, hazkz and other malware ridden sites is what SmartScreen is for. So far it comes only with IE. Actually that is one of the big problems. I would like them to allow other browsers to use the SmartScreen tech.
Actually MSE is a descendant of antivirus tech like RAV (Romanian AntiVirus) aquired by MS from GeCad way back when. Back then it was speculated that they actually bought it because it was the only decent AV product companies could install on their mail and file servers that ran linux
I've had a few customers with trojans, from like 2009 and MS Sec. Essentials doesn't detect them with a quick scan. Only after a full scan did it see them.
These machines always had MSE running and up to date.
It's unfortunate that so many software companies write software such that it requires admin access or we could avoid so much of these infections.
Sounds like you need better software. I can't remember the last time I ran anything that needed admin rights, with the single exception of Visual Studio when I was doing something that required escalated privileges (loading drivers, etc).
Norton on a Vista machine with 2GB of ram was also amazing. Thank god we are out of the dark ages.
I hadn't heard of that, and when I looked into it, the truth appeared to be different from what you claimed. It looks like you had to click on the picture, and then click to download and then install the malware. One of the sites had malware pretending to be a VLC update, the others were peddling fake anti-virus software.
Then again considering the source... Bill Gates lying about Google? Why am I not surprised?
Fanatically anti-fanatical
The popups didn't mislead me but annoyed the hell out of me. Therefore I gave up on Avast and installed MSE. However, given my recent bad luck with the latter, I may have to choose something else.
I hadn't noticed any change for the worse in MSE.
For the past two-ish years, I have regarded MSE as the most lightweight and most effective AV option out there. Not to mention that it is fairly unobtrusive when compared to the rest. I haven't seen anything to change that opinion at this time.
As for those that offer up the heinously slow and ineffective AVG; you've got to be kidding!
... For normal folks there is Avast Free and Comodo Internet Security. Avast is good, but a little chatty but some people like chatty ...
You can turn off the notifications in avast if they're annoyning.
Well the "full report" site is having some troubles. But why not give Comodo a try? It's free for both personal AND business use. It's software firewall is top notch and the AV and other utilities it brings are decent. I've not had any virus issues over the past 5 years. And very few of my clients have as well.
If your office has more than 10 people, you can't use MSE legally.
You know the dodgiest thing about Mcaffee? The moment your PC dies, it uninstalls itself and does a runner, so you'll never even know if it was the app that did the killing!
At my last company, I experienced using NAV 10, SEP 11, SEP 12, and then Microsofts System Center Endpoint Protection 2012. If you don't know, SCEP is basically MSE with central management capabilities. It looks freaking identical. What was our experience going from the cadillac of AV, paying 50k a year in maintenance costs to a essentially free AV? Virus infections stayed the same. Detection stayed the same. Remediation stayed the same. I've always considred AV software to be nothing but the proverbial "Canary in the coal mine". If a computer gets infected, I want it to squak enough to get my attention. I don't expect it to stop or fix the problem. Frankly, I don't trust any software to fix the problem, and I'd rather wipe and reload or restore from backup. If it stops one or two infections, great, but I wouldn't stake my job on it.
If you really want protection, you better start using whitelisting. A good whitelisting app will do more for security than any AV software. Even if you go overboard and tell it to allow any signed content from most of the big vendors, you're still a bagillion times more secure than any AV. And the overhead is typically much less since you're dealing with a much smaller list to check against. Unfortunately, user interaction is bound to be higher.
I would agree that 3/4 of AV success is avoiding "dodgy" sites. However, I have never had any problems with malware on any porn site. The sites I have had problems with malware on were like pics of celebrities on Google Images, and you get a redirect to a malware driveby site, or, you lick on an ad that promises things free that should not be ... that kind of thing. I Used to AVG 2012, but when it went to 2013 it refused to activate, so I switched to Avast, and have not looked back. Higher rated and better protection.
Well for crying out loud, stop licking on those ads. That'll get you every time.
Then again considering the source... Bill Gates lying about Google? Why am I not surprised?
There is just an outside chance that the slashdot user "Billly Gates" isn't, in fact, the multi-billionaire former CEO of Microsoft.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Would you also yell at the millions of places around the world offering promotional "buy one, get one free" deals? If you have to buy something, it's not free, right? No. Not right. If you buy $x, you were going to buy $x anyway, and now buying $x gives you $y at no additional cost (or, in most cases, already owned $x because have fun buying a non-Mac PC without it), you could say you got $y for free.
Though compiled code is not my area of expertise, I would think that the ability to dissect the impact of an infection and clean it would be much harder when not knowing the details of the system. And that was just my explanation after the fact when I noticed that the MSE seemed be much more effective, and run much nicer on my system than McAfee.
And speaking in general now, it has long been MS's strategy to block companies who were developing applications to run on Windows from extensive knowledge of Windows' internals, so those applications would under-perform (and thus give MS a competitive advantage to develop similar applications, such as the one in question, though in this case not for direct profit, just prestige).
There is just an outside chance that the slashdot user "Billly Gates" isn't, in fact, the multi-billionaire former CEO of Microsoft.
Tha'ts just doubly dastardly!
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Then its worthless because with a drive by once its loaded you're pwned. And if the only way it does its job is with IE again its worthless, many of us don't use IE and have no desire to use IE so they should really say if its made to work with IE only.
And isn't SmartScreen Win 8 only? considering it looks to be another flop having their AV depend on a tech so few of their customers will have is pretty stupid. But at the end of the day this is why i recommend CIS and Avast, they work with ANY browser and will stop infected pages for loading at all. I still use MSE on my gaming system but then again i'm not going anywhere dodgy on my game system so it really doesn't matter, i could probably get by with just Defender.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Glad you like it, I switched to Comodo IS from Avast because frankly it was getting just too chatty for my tastes and honestly I haven't seen CIS need a "gaming mode" as both my boys game like crazy and never had a bit of trouble or slowdown from CIS.
And I know all about Comodo Secure DNS, I have it as a backup to my main DNS and I give out (as well as use myself) Comodo Dragon which uses Comodo DNS for just the browser is you like. The only reason I don't use CS-DNS for everything is i have some older software that is already set to use the old FreeDNS and I really don't feel like tweaking it, but since most malware comes from browsers and CS-DNS blocks website malware pages from loading? Really not worried about it.
And while I agree that a wipe and re-install is the best option sometimes that just isn't possible, they could be using one of the OEM Windows that hates normal install discs (eMachines and Compaq are the worst for this) or they have corrupted their hidden OEM partition, or they have too many photos shotgunned across the drive and don't want to risk losing their data. in those cases a cleaning CAN work, its just gonna take longer and thus be more costly than a nuke and re-install, but at the end of the day its the customer's call, not mine.
But personally I don't have to worry about such things, and neither does my family, as I use Paragon Drive Image to make a hidden partition with encrypted images of the drive so I can just send 'em back if they make a boo boo and infect the system. really ought to give it a try, its free, its easy, and it works quite well, even managing to restore my system after the power cut out in the middle of a partition resize which hosed the partition table. took me less than 30 minutes and I was back up like nothing ever happened.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I hadn't heard of that, and when I looked into it, the truth appeared to be different from what you claimed. It looks like you had to click on the picture, and then click to download and then install the malware. One of the sites had malware pretending to be a VLC update, the others were peddling fake anti-virus software.
Then again considering the source... Bill Gates lying about Google? Why am I not surprised?
You mean
I hadn't heard of that, and when I looked into it, the truth appeared to be different from what you claimed. It looks like you had to click on the picture, and then click to download and then install the malware. One of the sites had malware pretending to be a VLC update, the others were peddling fake anti-virus software.
Then again considering the source... Bill Gates lying about Google? Why am I not surprised?
Here you go">
http://saveie6.com/
When has that ever been a concern and legally we don't have any permanent people, just 28 hour per week people which might get staggered a tad so we hire TWICE as many at 28 hours per week but only twice a month.
There are less than 5 permanent people. I ain't one.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
I don't get it... It's a pretty mundane detail to me, and apparently to everyone else, too, since practically none of the tech sites reported it. Why do you care so much?
Slashdot may be dying, but failing to spam its userbase with mundane stories isn't the reason why...
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Thanks for the humor. My bad on the typo. But ... kind fits, right?
Don't explain computers to laymen. Simpler to explain sex to a virgin. -- Robert A. Heinlein
CIS HAS a game mode. Right-click the tray icon, check game mode. It's my favorite free AV/firewall for Windows as well, it's a well-made product.
Not a sentence!
Thanks but I didn't say it didn't have one, I said it didn't seem to NEED one because both my boys game like crazy, they never touch CIS or use game mode, and all their games play just fine.
What I like is it only takes a few days for it to learn your programs and the way you use your PC and after that unless you suddenly add something its never encountered before you'll never even know its there. My boys get their games through steam and once it learned they use Steam? that was it, no more questions, it just does its job silently and without dragging the system down.
So anybody that isn't happy with MSE or whatever AV they have ought to give it a try, its free, low resource, and isn't chatty or bug you with pop up boxes, it just does its job and does it quite well. Now the only thing i have MSE on is my gaming box and that is simply because all its doing is gaming and transcoding so not really any reason to remove it as I'm not going anywhere on it to worry about having a real time AV.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Um... can anyone see bullpoop when it is bullpoop??
Usability (Industry average: MS)
Average slowdown of computer- 2x:1x
false detections/scan- 4:0
false warnings during downloads/installs 4%: 0%
false blocking of actions: 4%: 0%
Repair & active detection:
Active detection: 95% : 98%.
removal of all malware components: 85% : 80% (MS worse)
removal of other malicious sw: 60% : 63%
detection of recent developed examples by AV testcompany: 85% v 80% (samples weren't shared w/ms?)
detection of sameday threats 89% v 64% (communication? MS worse)...
so except for recently developed viruses that can easily have been crafted by the company to avoid MS detection algorithms, MS seems to be about as good or better.
And this is a report from a competitor about MS...
Um...to me this looks like a shining recommendation of MS MSE...but what would MS know about what is likely to infect their OS?...*cough*...
I remember back in the day, Netscape ruled the web, and internet explorer was a piece of crap that, while bundled with the operating system, nobody ever used. I remember when Microsoft first released mplayer, its first video player; Which looked sad and pathetic next to QuickTime. I remember how under Windows NT, the only method of defragmenting the filesystem was to reformat and start over, unless you bought Norton. I remember when Word Perfect was the only word processor anyone in the industry would recommend for professionals, and Microsoft Office was little more than notepad with a bag on the side. And I remember the first software firewalls by ZoneAlarm and others, compared to the pathetic XP firewall.
While I hope you are right...
I remember back in the day, Apache ruled the web and everyone laughed at IIS. Embedded systems didn't use Windows because MS products were pitiful in this market. Everyone had an iPod and laughed at those who used Zunes. Microsoft used to pump enormous sums into R&D for search and mobile devices, but it never seemed to get anywhere with marketshare. That sure changed! Hell, I even remember when every other Microsoft Windows release was a laughing stock. People used to make jokes about it.
Microsoft has been wildly successful with relatively low levels of evil, and that should be applauded... but let's not give them too much credit. For starters, many of their products fail and will fail. That's business. But my real gripe: their terrible products largely created the current security market. On many setups, you could effectively root Windows 95 by hitting "escape" at the login screen. Even MS's own products didn't start separating user data from program files until the mid-2000s. Their file system, permissions, and registry have created incredible opportunities for malware. MS(S)E is the equivalent of BP watching a 15 year long oil leak and showing up with some bags of Quickrete. If they finally manage to cap the well 5-10 years after showing up, and end up tanking the anti-virus industry? They'll have finally begun to earn their position as the dominant Operating System. I do love Office, though, at least compared to the competition.
SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
I've always said about porn: you've seen 5000 of them, you've seen them all! :)))
I have come across Comodo in the past, but never use it - will take a closer look now, cheers. Especially as I did want an alternative f/w to the Winbloze one. Of course, I should just buy a cheap Cisco on ebay or even run up a small Linux PC & do it 'properly', but I deal with that crap for a living so last thing I want to do when I get home on a puter...*sigh* (I'd also like a software outgoing packet blocker f/w to stop unexpected apps getting out if I don't want them to).
But I'm not technically illiterate.
I put my first FTP site together (WTF? FTP today is insecure as all hell these days for other than anon!) many, many moons ago, along with a commercial port 25 mail server before spam became a real problem
I also had a small hand in actually making spam a problem as well (my hat is not always white).
So, I used to use FTP servers to publish or transfer things. And, well, I don't do that anymore.
These days, I send attachments (sometimes of [OMFG!] 25 or more megabytes), and things work fine.
But filtering attachments? Seriously. It's asking visitors to jump through a hop-scotch before they're permitted to see you: It proves nothing, protects you from nothing, and (at best!) annoys or amuses the person trying to talk to you.
But whatever the case, rejecting attachments never does a single thing to protect you, the company, the sender, or the Security of the World. It proves nothing of any value, while making it difficult for folks (including you!) to make money*.
*Because if you wanted that money, you'd be downloading that data..one way or the other, whether it be a MIME attachment or a file on an FTP server.
Fuck off, Luddite.
Kid-proof tablet..