Slashdot Mirror


Apple Patents Wireless Charging

GabriellaKat writes "Via El Reg: 'Apple is trying to patent wireless charging, claiming its magnetic resonance tech is new and that it can do it better than anyone else. This would be cool if its assertions were true. Apple's application, numbered 20120303980, makes much of its ability to charge a device over the air at a distance of up to a meter, rather than requiring close proximity. The Alliance For Wireless Power, which also touts long-range juicing, will no doubt be comparing Apple's designs to its own blueprints.'"

180 of 253 comments (clear)

  1. Worlds Gone Mad by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Haven't they seen that there are already wireless charging standards???

    --

    Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    1. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Leinad177 · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal"

    2. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Issarlk · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your point being?

    3. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It really doesn't matter if it's been invented before or whether it's original or in fact even an invention at all. Indeed none of the rules that should apply to patents actually apply to patents.
      All that matters is that the overworked patent-checking drone at the patent office puts hit stamp of approval on it and you're ready to retroactively sue anybody into a settlement deal.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    4. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Apple's patent application was filed in November 2010, before the alliance was established

    5. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Haven't they seen that there are already wireless charging standards???

      Of course they've seen them, now they want to own them. This is how it worked before.

    6. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Standards are for losers. Winners force proprietary systems into the market to further enhance their dominance.

    7. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by bjwest · · Score: 3, Funny

      So this never happened because "the alliance" had yet to be established?

      --

      --- Keep the choice with the user..
    8. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 5, Funny

      Great. With a bit of luck my new pending patent "Wheel" is on the way to be approved.

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    9. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by pbjones · · Score: 3, Insightful

      worked for MS, should work for Apple.

      --
      There was an unknown error in the submission.
    10. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by sFurbo · · Score: 4, Funny

      That could work, though having a patent as prior art might make it easy enough top find that even a patent clerk can.

    11. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by wvmarle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The fact that there are wireless standards doesn't mean no-one can come up with a new way of doing this, and subsequently patenting it. Also they do not patent "wireless charging" which, in itself, would be hard to patent - they patent a method of wireless charging using some magnetic coupling trick. And they claim they have a new way of doing this, and as such it may very well be innovative and patentable.

      But well, like the summary and your outright uninformed comment the rest of the discussion here will be "patent troll hurr hurr". The first few comments that I see here are already like that, predicably.

      I skimmed through the patent text, can't tell what is new and what is old. That part would require quite some deeper study, and requires understanding of the whole field. Sensationalism like from El Reg and copied by Slashdot is simply stupid. If you have read and understand the patent, and there is nothing in it that was not invented yet at the application date, please come back and let me know exactly why the patent is faulty. Please also send the same comments to the patent office, so this application may be rejected.

    12. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by subreality · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sure, but patents are for methods, not ideas. I don't know if this patent is a legitimately a new method for wireless charging, but it doesn't matter if other techniques already exist.

    13. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Dupple · · Score: 4, Informative

      Really doesn't matter when the application was made. It still hasn't been granted.

      WiPower got a patent on this stuff that's unpatentable back in 2008

      http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=8,169,185&OS=8,169,185&RS=8,169,185

      Surely there was enough prior art for that patent to be questionable as well

      --
      Watch those corners
    14. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by louic · · Score: 4, Informative

      Resonant wireless energy transfer was published in Science in 2007 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/317/5834/83.abstract?sid=135a98e9-4946-4b04-ab80-9dab0d9b5bd3

    15. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by dimeglio · · Score: 4, Funny

      If it's a better wheel, I'm really excited but I've got a feeling you're being sarcastic.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    16. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by mrbester · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "That part would require quite some deeper study, and requires understanding of the whole field."

      Something the patent office never claims to have, even when presented with it. So this will get approved and the merry-go-round can start again.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    17. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Great. With a bit of luck my new pending patent "Wheel" is on the way to be approved.

      Apple has the patent, it's called the continuous rounded unicorner.

    18. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You forgot to include "for mobile devices". That's why their claim is valid.

    19. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by stepdown · · Score: 2

      You jest but there was an Australian patent granted for a "Circular Transportation Facilitation Device" in 2001.

    20. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by flappinbooger · · Score: 4, Funny

      Great. With a bit of luck my new pending patent "Wheel" is on the way to be approved.

      call it the iWheel and make it look all hip and trendy and you might have a chance there.

      Just not too hip and trendy or Apple might whine about it and sue you.

      --
      Flappinbooger isn't my real name
    21. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by PmanAce · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should point out the patent numbers so we can verify your claim chucked from left field.

      --
      Tired of my customary (Score:1)
    22. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by nyctopterus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that Apple is a patent troll [...]

      No, Apple is a patent bully. They make products, or intend to make products, that utilise their patents. They also make that vast majority of their money on actual products, not litigation. Neither of these things is consistent with a patent troll.

    23. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I skimmed through the patent text, can't tell what is new and what is old.

      The new part is the phrase "on a smartphone".

    24. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      How are they going to sue Nikola Tesla? Cad of a man, inventing the whole damned concept 100 years ago.

    25. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by kenorland · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There's nothing technically new in Apple's patent. What the patent is about is using a well-known wireless charging technique to charge a wireless powered local computing environment (as opposed to some other kind of device).

      Apple basically missed the boat on wireless power, and now they are trying to grab whatever ridiculous patent they can to have a little bit of leverage.

      Hopefully, the rest of the industry will tell them to go take a hike on making compliant products, and then sue Apple into oblivion for violating existing patents.

    26. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by wvmarle · · Score: 2

      The patent office of course can not hire experts in every single field. Vetting patents is difficult, and with technology getting more and more advanced it's getting harder to know all the little details. Having them know everything there is to know about everything, that's impossible and not reasonable.

      The way it should work (don't know actual practice) is that if there is a real issue of not being innovative, then third parties may notify the patent office of just that, including relevant references and explanation, and the patent office invalidates the patent if they think it's indeed so.

    27. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Mindbridge · · Score: 1

      I have not looked at the patent application, but based on the description, it appears to me that Apple is trying to patent something similar to what WiTricity is doing, rather than what Tesla has demonstrated. From the WiTricity wiki:

      Unlike the far field wireless power transmission systems based on traveling electro-magnetic waves, WiTricity employs near field resonant inductive coupling through magnetic fields similar to those found in transformers except that the primary coil and secondary winding are physically separated, and tuned to resonate to increase their magnetic coupling. These tuned magnetic fields generated by the primary coil can be arranged to interact vigorously with matched secondary windings in distant equipment but far more weakly with any surrounding objects or materials such as radio signals or biological tissue.

    28. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by subreality · · Score: 1

      But it's supposed to be for something novel - not just a minor tweak.

      Why place a lower bound on the degree of novelty? If you patent a minor tweak that no one needs then everyone will just ignore your method and use the original one - which your patent doesn't cover.

    29. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by somersault · · Score: 2

      He wasn't talking about patents, he was talking about closed proprietary standards such as office documents (even OpenXML isn't that open) , or the HTML rendering behaviour of IE.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    30. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How about MIT in 2007? This one works over two meters. Would Apple be guilty of patenting an inferior implementation?

    31. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by l3v1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      - U.S. Patent 0,685,954 - Method of Utilizing Effects Transmitted through Natural Media - 1899 August 1
      - U.S. Patent 0,685,953 - Apparatus for Utilizing Effects Transmitted from a Distance to a Receiving Device through Natural Media - 1899 June 24
      and so on and so forth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nikola_Tesla_patents)

      --
      I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
    32. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      I guess actual products like the Palm Touchstone were just figments of my imagination.

    33. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      Correct. It should also be clear to everybody with a rational noodle at this point that Apple intends to seek a monopoly in the smartphone space by means of the State apparatus (chiefly the unworkable patent process). Judging by the way they're behaving in Europe, any imposed regulation due to this status will pushed off and perhaps half-implemented over time (there's more profit in paying the piddling fines and pushing ahead with vigor).

      The current system incentivizes this type of behavior. Any ethical restraints about exploiting this system that Apple had in the past have long since left the equation.

      Those who see Apple as the scrappy underdog of 1995, working hard to bring UNIX and open standards to the masses, are trading alertness for nostalgia.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    34. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by CastrTroy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sure there are lots of patents on wheels. With a little bit of thought, you could probably come up with a lot of ways to make wheels perform better in certain situations, such as having more strength for less mass. Just a quick search yielded a bicycle wheel patented in 2002. But that's OK, with me, because its' a specific way of arranging the spokes, more precisely, with spokes from each side meeting at the same place on the rim. Anybody else is free to use the old method of arranging the spokes. That's also why I'm fine with this Apple wireless charging patent. It describes a specific method of charging devices wirelessly. None of the old methods infringe because they don't use the same method. Anything you, or I can come up with that improves on their method is also not in violation of the patent. Sure Apple has some stupid patents, but this isn't one of them.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    35. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by jythie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They are not trying to patent wireless charging, they are trying to patent a particular technology for doing so.

      This isn't even a software patent.. if it is legit then this is more in line with patents historically covered, physical implementable technological advancements.

    36. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 2

      That's the problem - all the patent clerks are too busy trying to overturn our views of space and time to do any patent clerking...if only Einstein had worked as a lawyer instead...

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    37. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Wireless charging at a range of several meters is simple.

      Oh, you wanted it to be safe?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    38. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Theaetetus · · Score: 1, Informative

      That could work, though having a patent as prior art might make it easy enough top find that even a patent clerk can.

      FUD. That wasn't a patent as we understand them. Australia implemented a registration-only system a few years back. There's no examination and no presumption of validity or novelty. All you get is a filing date.

    39. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If it wasn't for Edison, wireless charging would be superfluous... we wouldn't need wireless charging or even batteries... because we'd have wireless electricity everywhere. But with no way to regulate the power, there'd be no way to charge for it's use... and we can't have people just using resources without paying. If Edison could have figured a way to charge for air, he would have... greedy amoral bastard... Tesla should have stabbed him in the throat when he had a chance.

    40. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      Anything you, or I can come up with that improves on their method is also not in violation of the patent.

      Well, that's wrong. If I patent removing expired timestamped hash table keys while traversing them during a lookup operation, and you patent the same thing but also after removing the keys you add them to a "free list" then that's the very definition of "infringing" my patent. Improving on someone's method while their patent is valid is an infringement. This means patents stifle innovation. DERP!

    41. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      The patent office of course can not hire experts in every single field.

      No, the way it should work is that to get your patent approved you must pay for the patent office to hire two independent 3rd party groups who are individuals skilled in the art -- The first group you ask: "Is this obvious and why", the second you ask, "I have this specific problem and I want you to try to solve it", e.g., "Come up with a solution for wireless charging at greater distances". If the first group shows them the patent is obvious then that's it's not patentable. If the second group comes up with a similar solution to the original patent then the application is denied.

      I can hear it now, "That's too expensive!" No, the applicant foots the damn bill. Look, we pity the patent examiners because they're overworked while moronically ignoring the fucking answer: raise the cost of patents applications to cover the damn cost it takes to get good examination. Granting monopolies over using ideas that come to individuals ordinarily skilled in the arts when when tasked with the same problem cost FAR MORE to all the world's "innovators" than a measly couple of think tanks. The disparity between hundreds of dollars to apply for patents and millions to invalidate patents should tell you the system is designed to fuck over the little guy they claim to help protect.

    42. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by realityimpaired · · Score: 2

      Also several years after I bought my toothbrush base.

      With luck, the person reviewing the patent actually practices oral hygiene, and realizes that wireless charging has been commercially available for decades.

    43. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Sedated2000 · · Score: 1

      My Nexus 4 already wirelessly charges with a magnetic coupling trick. Would that make this invalid?

    44. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      But well, like the summary and your outright uninformed comment the rest of the discussion here will be "patent troll hurr hurr".

      Assuming it was NOT some form of patent trolling would be the uninformed opinion. The context of the patent may matter more than the specifics of the patent.

      Is it a patent covering mobile technology? Yes? Then odds are it's going to be used not to protect innovation that the holder invested in, but rather to punish those people who actually ARE making advances in technology and daring to sell it, or is going to be used to try to stifle competition without actually offering a better product. Or, in other words, for patent trolling.

    45. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      You forgot to add "bro".
      Please get your AC shit posts correct.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    46. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      I am all for receiving power over the air for free.
      Awesome stuff that I will sign up for at anytime.
      But in you little ACtastic world ... Who the fuck are you going to get to build and run the plants that produce the power for free?

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    47. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Americano · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The disparity between hundreds of dollars to apply for patents and millions to invalidate patents should tell you the system is designed to fuck over the little guy they claim to help protect.

      And in what way does this fix ("you want a patent? Great, the fee is $5 million, we take cash or bank check, no personal checks please!") not "fuck over the little guy"?

      The "little guy" doesn't have a few million dollars laying around to spend on ramming his patent application through. Your proposed "fix" would simply enshrine the notion that unless you're a big multinational with a billion dollar bankroll, you can't innovate, so don't even bother.

      While I agree that patents are probably too easily granted, your proposed solution doesn't really do much to foster innovation and open the field up to "the little guy." Every little guy without a giant bankroll will automatically be at a disadvantage.

    48. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      What's the range of your charger? I've got an inexpensive oral-b, and although there are no electrical wires or contacts per se, the toothbrush still has to be mounted on the little plastic protrusion on the charging base.

    49. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Anything you, or I can come up with that improves on their method is also not in violation of the patent.

      Well, that's wrong. If I patent removing expired timestamped hash table keys while traversing them during a lookup operation, and you patent the same thing but also after removing the keys you add them to a "free list" then that's the very definition of "infringing" my patent.

      No, it doesn't. Look up what "infringing a patent" means. Patenting an improvement to an existing patent is perfectly legal and non-infringing.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    50. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Americano · · Score: 1

      It is, according to this article, a different approach:

      Most of today’s wireless chargers utilize inductive charging, which requires a charger and your gadget to be extremely close — usually touching — to do the job. So if your smartphone is capable of wireless charging (the Lumia 920, for example), it requires a wired charging base on which you place the phone to charge.

      It goes on to say:

      An Apple patent application published Thursday, “Wireless Power Utilization in a Local Computing Environment,” uses a different approach. Apple’s implementation would utilize a near-field magnetic resonance (NFMR) power supply to deliver juice to nearby devices that have an NFMR resonator circuit within.

      Like you, I don't know enough about the field to properly judge, but it does sound like they're using a different approach (NFMR instead of induction) to produce the power, and that this NFMR device will create a charging "zone," which could possibly deliver enough power to charge/power a desktop's worth of accessories during normal use - keyboard, mouse, phone, etc. Is it "novel" enough to patent? The USPTO obviously thought so. Whether or not it's a "good" solution, it does seem to at least be *different* than what the current wireless charging techniques are using.

    51. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by toriver · · Score: 1

      There is no law against patenting something inferior to other technologies much as there is no law against making inferior movies based on the same public domain sources that a successful movie uses.

    52. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by toriver · · Score: 1

      How far away from the touchstone did it charge? This is a different method.

    53. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I had to scroll quite a long way to find a reasonable post on the matter. This is a specific implementation, not overly vague, and is exactly what the patent system was designed for.

    54. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Mex · · Score: 1

      Well, your system is just as stupid because it makes it even harder for the "little guy" to patent something. He might not have any money for it, and while he comes up with it someone else with deeper pockets might snatch his idea and patent it themselves.

    55. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Shagg · · Score: 1

      What happens if you patent a minor tweak that everyone needs?

      --
      Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
    56. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by omnichad · · Score: 1

      different "trick"?

    57. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Induction is near-field magnetic resonance. This is how induction lights work, magnetic resonance exciting mercury-composite amalgam, which then emits UV, which excites the phosphors lining the tube, which converts the UV radiation into visible-range radiation.

      Wireless power further out than a few inches is highly wasteful and potential power output drops quite rapidly with distance.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    58. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Americano · · Score: 1

      Wireless power further out than a few inches is highly wasteful and potential power output drops quite rapidly with distance.

      And Apple claims that their device will charge "up to about a meter" away from the device. If that's true, then based on what you've just said, I suspect they've come up with a novel and non-obvious method for efficiently charging/delivering power over longer distances than the "few inches" you've described - which would be a completely legitimate and valid thing to grant them a patent for.

    59. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by jakimfett · · Score: 4, Funny

      Nikola Tesla called, he wants his royalty check.

      --
      Bits of code, random ramblings: jakimfett.com
    60. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by zieroh · · Score: 1

      There's nothing more amusing than a slashdotter who thinks he knows everything about patents completely failing to actually grok the technology being discussed.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    61. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Nyder · · Score: 1

      Wireless charging at a range of several meters is simple.

      Oh, you wanted it to be safe?

      I thought it was about wasted power. That it takes a lot more power to charge a device that is a meter away, in fact, wastes more power then it charges at distances.

      Me, I'm staying old school and plugging crap in.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    62. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      There's essentially 4 ways to transmit electricity wirelessly. Two of them rely on photovoltaics which are nowhere near efficient enough to power a device like a cell phone (not to mention energy lost during conversion to light), one of them relies on microwave radiation which wouldn't be safe, and the last is electro-magnetic induction current. You can do it with heat, too, but that's even less efficient than PV cells, and generally not considered by anybody who has a clue what they're doing.

      When using normal magnetic induction, the strength of the magnetic field (and subsequently the amount of energy you can extract from it) is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source. If you want something strong enough to charge a phone at a distance of a meter, you need to put 400x more energy into it than something to provide the same charge at a distance of 5cm. (5cm * 20 = 1m, 20^2 = 400). The reason that something like this hasn't been done before isn't because it's a new idea, it's because it's horribly inefficient. There's no technical reason the toothbrush's inductant current charger can't work at a greater distance than it does. It's designed to work over short distances because it's more efficient that way.

      BTW... this is highschool level physics. Perhaps, just perhaps, you can pull your head out of your ass long enough to realize that the actual physics behind how technology like this works doesn't change. Also, it's still not a new idea. Note the date on that article. The patent in question was filed in 2010. You are capable of doing the subtraction, right? And since that was done at a publicly funded university....

    63. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by PoolOfThought · · Score: 2

      You're statement, Plump, is right in that "patenting an improvement to an existing patent is perfectly legal and non-infringing". I'm replying to this for other's benefit, not necessarily yours.

      Patenting something is NOT an infringment, but if you try to actually build the invention using "your" patented idea then you'd be infringing on the original patent even though you were using your patented way of doing things. If person A patents a "lever" to move the world and person B patents a "fulcrum and lever" (B improved the design of A by adding a fulcrum) then B still can't make use of A patent without infringing on A.

      I recently worked with an attorney on a patent and I was SHOCKED how thorough they were in terms of expanding it to cover every possible use during the disclosure. The idea was that you don't want to patent something awesome and then have someone else come along and patent an improvement that then boxes you out of improving your own invention. It could happen if care is not taken for exactly the reason you mentioned... patenting an improvement is not an infringement.

      --
      My present is the activity I am currently engaged in with the purpose of turning the future into a better past.
    64. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by UltraZelda64 · · Score: 1

      And that leaves no artists actually doing their own thing, independently.

    65. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by dudpixel · · Score: 1

      Aha, but did he invent "wireless charging on a mobile device"?

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    66. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by Americano · · Score: 1

      I don't think anybody has claimed that they "can beat the laws of physics". That doesn't mean that they haven't developed a way that is more efficient than other methods so far. This argument is sort of like saying "can't go faster than the speed of light, so why bother building a faster jet?"

    67. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by zieroh · · Score: 1

      Congratulations on the copy-paste job. Now, my suddenly lucid friend, I pose this question to you: why did you, in your previous post, conflate plain induction charging with magnetic resonance?

      I can think of three reasons: (a) you didn't bother reading the article before commenting, (b) you didn't actually know the difference at the time you wrote it, or (c) you were attempting to make a very questionable point by being deliberately misleading.

      Pray tell, good sir, which one of those options you would prefer us to believe? Because someone who actually had a fucking clue about how the OralB toothbrush actually worked would be unlikely to make such a glaring fucking mistake.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    68. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by subreality · · Score: 1

      If it's a minor tweak that everyone was using then there's prior art and you don't have a valid patent. If it's a tweak that no one else thought of that suddenly makes an old impractical idea become a realistic and useful thing, well, that sounds like a pretty legit patent to me.

    69. Re:Worlds Gone Mad by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Haven't they seen that there are already wireless charging standards???

      Gee, in the old analog radio days, we had slug tuned if transformers (resonance was used to get electrical isolation and high coupling. Tube and early transistor radios used if transformers. (Two stages for a cheap radio, three stages for a very sensitive radio with controllable rf gain.
      The only idea that I see is that Apple applied this concept to transfer power, in place of signals.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  2. 20120303980 Patents by AltF4ToWin · · Score: 1

    Apple owns 20120303977 of them.

    1. Re:20120303980 Patents by ikaruga · · Score: 2

      That is not how the american patent numbering system works. The last 4 digits(2012) are the year the patent was filled.

    2. Re:20120303980 Patents by worip · · Score: 4, Funny

      ?ew era, tfel ot thgir gnidaeR

      --
      A picture is worth exactly 1024 words.
    3. Re:20120303980 Patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, in the year 3980...

    4. Re:20120303980 Patents by AltF4ToWin · · Score: 1

      Touche, America.

    5. Re:20120303980 Patents by bmo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Clearly he has his endians mixed up.

      One little, two little, three little endians, four little, five little six little endians, seven little, eight little, nine little endians, ten little endian bytes.

      --
      BMO

    6. Re:20120303980 Patents by bmo · · Score: 1

      It all began innocently enough on Tuesday. I was sitting in my office on that drizzly afternoon listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desktop, and reading my name on the glass of my office door--"regnaD kciN."

      --
      BMO

    7. Re:20120303980 Patents by Muad'Dave · · Score: 5, Funny

      One little, two little, three little endians, four little, five little six little endians, seven little, eight little, nine little endians, 0x0A little endian bytes.

      FTFY

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    8. Re:20120303980 Patents by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Obilgatory XKCD.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    9. Re:20120303980 Patents by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      I think you mean:
      two little, one little, four little, three little, six little, five little, eight little, seven little, ten little, nine little edian bytes

  3. Crystal Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wow. In the first claim, they actually claimed a patent on a Crystal Radio. OK - they added the bit about detuning the receiver to identify it to the transmitter, but that technique has been used in just about every RFID product in existence.

    Does the USPTO actually employ anyone with an IQ above 50?

    1. Re:Crystal Radio by TFAFalcon · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes, he's the guy collecting the patent fees.

    2. Re:Crystal Radio by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      The guy spending the fees you mean. The collector doesn't need to be smart. In fact it's best if he's not, otherwise he can start to get creative - one for me, one for you, one for me....

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re:Crystal Radio by wvmarle · · Score: 1, Informative

      Are there any AC's with an IQ above 50? This is probably the stupidest comment that I have seen here. If you have no clue whatsoever on how patents work, refrain from making these comments. Not all claims have to be unique and innovative, they just describe the complete working and outline of a device.

    4. Re:Crystal Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Have you ever filed a patent? Each individual claim MUST be novel (unique) and not be obvious.

      In this case, they slapped two aspects together in one claim, which I suppose does make that claim unique (combination of tuned energy coupling, and reverse comms channel by RF load). But is it non-obvious? Marconi himself observed that variations in the receiver could be observed at the transmitter, To any person versed in the field, this would qualify the combination of the two as 'obvious' and hence invalid.

      And yes, I have filed patents (but only in semiconductor physics), and I have built RF powered bidirectional comms devices. And I also 'discovered' that tuning the coils improved energy transfer. And I also detuned the receiver to communicate back to the transmitter. But did I file a patent on it? NO. Why not? Because there was nothing novel in what I did. (And believe me - the university's IP people would have definitely required that I file, if even one person at the department thought it was in any way patentable.

    5. Re:Crystal Radio by RaceProUK · · Score: 1

      Someone did get a patent on the wheel, although they know for a fact it won't stand up in court.

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
    6. Re:Crystal Radio by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      But did I file a patent on it? NO. Why not? Because there was nothing novel in what I did.

      Yep, I do the same thing. The idea of patents is inherently flawed deeply in many aspects; One of which is that the examiners are expected to funnel the entire world of innovation through their tiny minds in a tiny window of time. Sadly, they can't even effectively search their own patent databases despite the fact that the technology to do so exist... To say nothing of the world wide web -- THAT is our "unpatentable prior art database" and should be where they search for prior art, but they don't.

      If you don't apply for a patent for everything you do then it doesn't exist to the patent office. This means all innovation, even minor iterative and obvious innovations must pay the patent tax even if they don't infringe any current patents in order to ensure they won't be sued for using their own creations later (regardless if the suit has merit, it will cost you more than patent fees). Thus, Patents stifle innovation.

      "That's a nice innovation you've got there, be terrible if something happened to it, why we could accidentally grant the patent to someone else and you might get dragged into a huge legal mess." Patent Protection Money, heh.

    7. Re:Crystal Radio by Frankie70 · · Score: 1

      Does the USPTO actually employ anyone with an IQ above 50?

      The following patent US51612443 for employing people with IQ above 50 is actually owned by Apple.

      Abstract:
      A method and system for selecting any new candidate through coded intelligence quotient points by repeating steps E & F until displaying logically progressively trying more candidates having the said quotient above limit prescribed in step A.

  4. Patent Troll by fufufang · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Is any of Apple's current product capable of wireless charging? Did they develop any of the technology, as in doing the research?

    1. Re:Patent Troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is only a Patent Troll when they sue while they don't have any products.
      That is why a troll is dangerous because you can not sue them back for violation of your patents.

      Since Apple has been sued for making products that cover someone patents, they are by definition not a patent troll.

      Also Apple has not yet sued anyone for using wireless charging either. And maybe they sue after they have released their own product.

    2. Re:Patent Troll by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      These days patents are only used for stopping others from doing something.

    3. Re:Patent Troll by KillaBeave · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Is any of Apple's current product capable of wireless charging? Did they develop any of the technology, as in doing the research?

      Nah. The new Lumia and Nexus 4 can do wireless charging. Those happen to be Microsoft and Google's flagship phones. Apple's phones don't do it yet, so they want to sue this competitive disadvantage out of existence. I guess they are unable to compete otherwise ...

      If you own AAPL ... it may be time to start selling it off and taking your gains.

    4. Re:Patent Troll by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is all that patents have ever been used for since their inception. It is their primary function. Their side effect is spreading of knowledge (the eventual purpose).

    5. Re:Patent Troll by toriver · · Score: 1

      The wireless charging in those phones uses a different method. Nothing to sue over.

    6. Re:Patent Troll by Shagg · · Score: 1

      Unless the knowledge was already wide spread.

      --
      Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
  5. They can also patent time travel by PhilDEE · · Score: 2

    Let me fire up my somewhat used Tesla coil.

  6. What will they call it? by ipquickly · · Score: 2

    My money is on:
    Apple 'Reality Distortion Field'.

    1. Re:What will they call it? by asylumx · · Score: 1

      My money is on: Apple 'Reality Distortion Field'.

      I think Fox News may have them beat with prior art...

  7. Re:120 years late? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

    Please explain exactly how Tesla's invention is covered by the claims in this patent. That would be enlightening.

  8. Aggressive bitches. What about Nokia 920?

  9. Why not just make microwavable devices . . . ? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Funny

    You know, just pop them in the microwave @1000 Watts for five minutes, and they are then fully charged. You have to remember to turn off the device first.

    We already have microwavable popcorn, and microwave ovens can also be used to warm small pets, and almost every household has one already. US military specs probably already require microwave proof equipment, so those components could be used. All you need to do is to make a battery that can be charged by microwaves. Well, it sure will get hot in the oven, so maybe the heat will help somehow. Batteries always get hot when charging, so it's the heat that charges.

    Maybe.

    But please don't tell Apple! They will patent the idea! And then we will all have to buy iWaveOvens to charge our devices!

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Why not just make microwavable devices . . . ? by Xacid · · Score: 1

      While I know this is in jest...there's some strange appeal to this concept.

    2. Re:Why not just make microwavable devices . . . ? by NIK282000 · · Score: 1

      You're not far off the mark. You can easily send 1000W of power via microwaves with 0 new technology. The last time I saw it one of the space elevator university teams was using a microwave oven with a hole in the door and a rectifying antenna to get more then enough power to run their machine up a rope.

      --
      Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
    3. Re:Why not just make microwavable devices . . . ? by garyoa1 · · Score: 1

      While it's true that you can warm small pets, the problem is that you can only do it once.

      --
      Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
    4. Re:Why not just make microwavable devices . . . ? by Volguus+Zildrohar · · Score: 1

      Not if you keep buying new pets :)

      --
      When confronted with one problem, some think "I'll use recursion". Now they are confronted with one problem.
  10. Re:120 years late? by michael_rendier · · Score: 5, Informative

    Tesla's main secret with most of his work was harmonic resonance. The Tesla coil is a resonant coil, and his studies were clear that resonance would increase the distance that wireless transmissions could occur. One of his experiments used this very concept, and caused some damage to a power plant in Colorado Springs...resonating and amplifying the electricity collected from the earth moving through it's own atmosphere and discharging it into the ground in such quantities that it burned out a dynamo at the local power plant... http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_colspr.html

    --
    There are three kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't.
  11. Re:120 years late? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2, Informative

    Please explain exactly how Tesla's invention is covered by the claims in this patent.

    No. Really, every so often a patent comes up in my area of expertise where I think "hmm that sounds interesting or realy basic", and I take the effort to plough through. An example being google's ridiculous unlocking using face recognition patent. After ploughing through some very obfuscated and incredibly turgid language (I posted a point by point rebuttal on /. about that one) I find that my suspicions are confirmed and the patent is stupid, obvious and not even remotely new using even the most generous interpretation possible.

    I know a fair bit about electrical and electronic engineering, but not enough to make ploughing though the patent anything other than exceptionally time consuming.

    Given the general ridiculousness of patents, the propensity of large companies like Apple (by no means the only offender, but the one in question in this case) to submit patent applications on trivial things, and the VERY long history of wireless energy transfer at this point, I feel that the default position is that the patent should have never been awarded or even applied for and the onus is on anyone else claiming otherwise.

    That would be enlightening.

    Possibly, but if you've ever read a patent, they are usually anything but :)

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  12. Scratching my head in utter disbelief by blind+biker · · Score: 1

    I know for sure that there have been body-implantable MEMS devices described in scientific articles dating back to the early '90s. I cannot believe Apple can get a patent on something so old and, at this pint, so obvious.

    I am starting to suspect that the USPTO is biased pro-Apple

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    1. Re:Scratching my head in utter disbelief by DMiax · · Score: 1

      I cannot believe Apple can get a patent on something so old and, at this pint, so obvious.

      Keep drinking and see if it still seems obvious to you.

  13. The up to a meter claim. by queazocotal · · Score: 2

    This would require a fairly large 'transmit' antenna.
    The problems with near field charging are well known.
    The field cannot be focussed effectively, due to the nature of the magnetic field.
    the field production efficiency is limited by the size and weight of the transmitter.
    Every metal object in the field (which may extend behind/underneath the charger) will 'short out' the field, and take some energy.
    Resonance is not magic in any way at all.

    For every arrangement of coils, and random debris (keys, ...) in the way, there will be an optimum frequency that results in smallest loss.

    As an analogy - you're trying to power a device by jumping up and down on a trampoline, and having a reciever of that motion somewhere on the trampoline.

    Other large masses will disrupt the bouncing, and reduce the fraction of power going into your device.

    1. Re:The up to a meter claim. by bmo · · Score: 1

      Look up the thread where I reference the TED talk.

      --
      BMO

    2. Re:The up to a meter claim. by omnichad · · Score: 1

      length/surface area for an antenna comes in a very small package these days. Your cell phone likely no longer has a pull-out extendable antenna.

    3. Re:The up to a meter claim. by Ozoner · · Score: 1

      > length/surface area for an antenna comes in a very small package these days

      And they are relatively inefficient compared to a full sized antenna.

      The laws of physics still apply...

    4. Re:The up to a meter claim. by thedarknite · · Score: 1

      Reading the claims it looks like the range is increased by using a series of peripheral antennas. The language is hard to decipher but I think it might be along the lines of having a base station next to your computer which transmits power to your keyboard and mouse,the keyboard and mouse then retransmit to additional devices.
      IANAEE so my interpretation could be completely wrong

      --
      A game has objectives and is competitive, anything else is just play
  14. As many pointed out Tesla did this a 100+ ago by Grayhand · · Score: 2

    Without thoroughly reading their patent application it's impossible to know if there's an actual innovation involved. Although he wasn't charging batteries Tesla was using this process to power devices and over a greater distance than Apple. There's no proof his power transmission tower was ever operational but he was powering a type of florescent light in his workshop using a wireless power source very close to what they just patented. My concern is the process was well known for over a hundred years. I know there were plans to build a length of roadway with embedded coils in LA to power electric cars a couple of decades ago. Multiple car companies have discussed charging cars in garages using this process. Doesn't common knowledge fall under prior art? The equipment may be patentable but the process itself should not be given how established the concept has been for a very long time. It's a little like patenting a process for extracting electricity using photons to split off electrons when photovoltaic cells date back to the 1800s. Long established concepts and processes should not be patentable.

  15. My Get Rich Quick Plan by CuteSteveJobs · · Score: 1

    I am going to patent 'obnoxious patenting' and sue Apple for all its worth. Gonna buy me a shiny new jury foreman too. Oh the world is not enough!

    1. Re:My Get Rich Quick Plan by AltF4ToWin · · Score: 1

      Don't forget to patent 'soul stealing' before Apple figure out that's a feature of their new products.

  16. I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosystem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Music, movies, TV, and podcast subscriptions. All tied up in Apple's little ecosystem. A very pretty noose to keep people chained to its hardware.

    Imagine, just for a moment, that your Sony DVD player would only play Sony Movies' films. When you decided to buy a new DVD player from Samsung, none of those media files would work on your new kit without some serious fiddling.

    That's the walled garden that so many companies are now trying to drag us into. And I think it stinks.

    On a mobile phone network in the UK, you can use any phone you want. Hardware and services are totally divorced. It promotes competition because customers know that if they have a poor experience with HTC, they can move to Nokia and everything will carry on working just as it did before.

    But, if all of your contacts, entertainment services, and backups are chained into HTC - well, then you're just shit out of luck if you want to move.

    I want to see a complete separation of church and state here. Hardware should be separate from software. Software should be separate from services.

    I want to watch Nokia movies on my Samsung hardware running Google's Android, and then back them up to DropBox.

    That's how it works - more or less - in the PC space. I don't understand why it doesn't in the tablet and smartphone space? Why would I buy a tablet that only worked with content from one provider? Whether that's Amazon, Microsoft or Apple - it's setting up a nasty little monopoly which will drive up prices and drive down quality.

    I know, I know. The mantra of "It Just Works". I'm mildly sick of having to configure my tablet to talk to my NAS, and then get the TV to talk to both of them. That situation isn't just due to my equipment all coming from different manufacturers - it's mostly due to those manufacturers not implementing open standards.

    http://shkspr.mobi/blog/2012/11/i-dont-want-to-be-part-of-your-fucking-ecosystem/

  17. In the grim future of /. by Hillgiant · · Score: 1

    All posts will have the words "patent" and "Apple".

    ... Well except for the crudely disguised ads.

    --
    -
  18. This is how it works. by partyguerrilla · · Score: 1

    The reality distortion field became so powerful, it can charge your mobile devices at close range.

  19. I think Tesla has prior art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think Tesla has prior art based on wireless transmission of electricity.

  20. any sense of objectivity here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Have slashdotters lost any sense of objectivity here? Apple is fighting a patent battle with a company that makes devices we use, and therefor *ALL* of their patents are suspect and should be challenged?

    There is more than one way to skin a cat. That's basically the central tenant of patents. Apple thinks they have a unique way. Maybe someone else patented it first. Does this mean that Apple is somehow bad? Do you doubt that they too were genuinely performing this research?

    Don't let your frustrations about your personal opinions cloud your judgment.
     

  21. Re:TFApplication by queazocotal · · Score: 1

    To decode this somewhat.
    "One independent claim requires that "the device [to be charged] tunes the resonance circuit to at least one of the resonance frequencies of the NFMR power supply and subsequently de-tunes the resonance circuit to provide a device identification to the NFMR power supply using a change in a resonance circuit load factor".

    Sounds at least basically clever to me."

    This is how essentially 90% of existing RFID tags work.

    "3. A battery charging circuit, comprising: a first node arranged to receive wirelessly provided power;..." - they connect the antenna through a rectifier to a capacitor, and thence to a battery.
    This is the most trivially obvious way to do it. I built one of these in around 1986, and every wireless toothbrush in the world does this.

    "5. A method of wirelessly transmitting power," and this is a wireless wireless charger.
    This is rather more novel, and relies on the fact that the wireless wireless charger can be larger than the final device to be charged, so have a greater range from the original power source than the charger.

  22. Oh my god by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 1

    Can we please stop giving apple patents to things that have long since existed?
    Whoever is working the patent offices that keeps giving Apple the OK needs to be fired. Now.

    --
    What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
    1. Re:Oh my god by toriver · · Score: 1

      Ah the accurate and detailed description "things". It is obvious you know how patents work.

      "Marconi invented radio ages ago, so we cannot have any patents related to that field ever again."

  23. Re:120 years late? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

    Given the general ridiculousness of patents, the propensity of large companies like Apple (by no means the only offender, but the one in question in this case) to submit patent applications on trivial things, and the VERY long history of wireless energy transfer at this point, I feel that the default position is that the patent should have never been awarded or even applied for and the onus is on anyone else claiming otherwise.

    And given how criminals tend to be, well, criminal, the default position is that they're guilty and the onus is on them to prove their innocence. I mean, who cares about due process?

  24. Sensationalist FUD by El Reg by Kergan · · Score: 5, Informative

    It seems to me that the actual claims and subsequent description are on (1) a method to wirelessly charge devices, with one device serving as secondary power source source for another device if needed, and with devices up to a meter away from the primary and secondary power sources; (2) a method that improves the efficiency of charging high capacity batteries as a bonus from the circuit needed to do (1); and (3) using (1) and (2) to charge a mouse and keyboard (explicit in the claims). Evidently, (1) and (2) could also be used to charge phones and tablets in an office environment too.

    At any rate, I merely scanned the patent, but contrary to what TFS and TFA suggest, Apple didn't patent wireless charging, or even long range wireless charging. What Apple patented is cooperative and efficient wireless charging of a network of devices; in particular of peripherals located on a desk. I presume that plenty of researchers are working on the same kind of stuff, but assuming it hadn't been done yet, nobody can argue with a straight face that this patent is without merits.

  25. Lawyers getting the busines by RLBrown · · Score: 1

    As the article says, this will get the lawyers plenty of business. That is likely the point, as I believe that giant corporations have lost control of their attorneys. IP ligation has become a separate business for these guys, only minimally tied to the company's best interests.

    --
    -- Perhaps I see less than some, but more than many.
  26. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Nothing is stopping you from loading up any video file you want on your iPad, assuming the video file you want can be played by it. It isn't the device locking you in but the seller of the media.

  27. Freakin' Cloners by Archis · · Score: 1

    Saw Nokia's standard and added a meter, and are calling it new! Classic Apple! I'm sure the fanbiOS will fall for this one-meter revolution!

    1. Re:Freakin' Cloners by toriver · · Score: 1

      Yes, the patent is vastly different from the Qi proprietary standard that Nokia uses. So it is new. Thinking that "adding a meter" makes little differende is just being ignorant. Do you think inductive pans will heat a meter away from an induction stove, too?

      And it's not "Nokia's standard" just because Nokia is one of over 100 companies in the consortium behind it.

  28. Another Wrapper Patent by organgtool · · Score: 1

    I didn't have time to read the full patent since I'm at work, but in the Background section of the patent, Apple cites a scientific publication from 2008 that describes the technique for this wireless charging system. The rest of the patent appears to describe using this technology "in a computing environment". So basically, Apple is describing the process of slapping someone else's technology into a computer and preventing anyone else, including the original discoverers of this technology, from doing this.

    I realize this patent has not been approved yet and if there is any shred of decency in the patent office, it will be decisively rejected. As other people have pointed out, this patent is obvious to other people in this field. Furthermore, if patents are supposed to encourage innovation, then patents that wrap existing technology, such as this, need to be struck down. After all, what is the purpose of putting a ton of money and effort into discovering new technologies if other companies can come along and patent obvious uses of your technology and, in a sense, lock you out of uses for your own technology?

  29. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "It just works" is a lie, a sham. What they provide is less functionality, and thus "magically" it just works (provided you ONLY need the features provided).

    When you try to do something a little bit different, or their service shuts down, you're just holding on to a super-expensive paperweight.

    Apple and every walled garden is basically a fraud, a sham, on people's naivity. They've been shielded because of nerds defining internet and open standards, but you can't stop people shooting themselves in the foot. Only they can stop themselves. Those who can't have only themselves to blame.

  30. The usual s*** by udippel · · Score: 1

    It's been more than 10 years that some of us have tried very hard to give the /.-community a basic education in patent law. And yet, for the umpteenth time, confusion reigns above good sense.
    1. It is an application [only / yet]
    2. What matters legally are only the claims.

    "A battery charging circuit, comprising: a first node arranged to receive wirelessly provided power; a short term charge storage device having a first charge capacity; and a long term storage device having a second charge capacity, wherein the second charge capacity is substantially greater than the first charge capacity, wherein the long term storage device is charged by, (A) storing charge corresponding to the power wirelessly received at the first node into the short term charge storage device, (B) when the stored charge is equal to about the first charge capacity, then passing the stored charge from the short term storage device to the long term storage device, and (C) repeating (A) and (B) until the charge stored in the long term storage device is about equal to the second charge capacity."

    Now, is that on wireless charging, or on the concept of having two storage devices, a short-term and a long-term one, where the energy travels subsequently form the short-term recipient to the long-term recipient of a much larger capacitance??
    No, it is not inventive. Surely, someone had the idea before to charge a capacitor wirelessly, and then transfer the energy to a battery.

    3. USPTO is not manned with brain-damaged people; but with people under a number of stress-factors. One being a so-called production pressure. You are terminated when you work too intense on an application. Second, case law. A patent examiner is not supposed to contravene relevant court decisions. Actually, in about all legal systems the idea is on a basic legal text, that is interpreted over time by the courts. And good legal practice is considering the written law in the light of the court decisions ('case law'). The whole mess at USPTO started not with legal frameworks, but with Diamond vs Diehr and the Supreme Court taking a horrible wrong decision. A decision that effectively took out the inventive step as criterion and left novelty as single gauge.

  31. Re:120 years late? by NIK282000 · · Score: 1

    Its easier to steal from dead people, they don't fight back.

    --
    Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
  32. Re:120 years late? by quacking+duck · · Score: 1

    Given the general ridiculousness of patents, the propensity of large companies like Apple (by no means the only offender, but the one in question in this case) to submit patent applications on trivial things, and the VERY long history of wireless energy transfer at this point, I feel that the default position is that the patent should have never been awarded or even applied for and the onus is on anyone else claiming otherwise.

    And given how criminals tend to be, well, criminal, the default position is that they're guilty and the onus is on them to prove their innocence. I mean, who cares about due process?

    One is the state making accusations of wrongdoing against an entity, with monetary or restrictive consequences.

    The other is an entity petitioning the state to recognize and grant them a temporary monopoly, with monetary rewards potentially enforced by the state against other entities.

    Naturally, the two are somehow equivalent and should be handled in the same way.

  33. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by docmordin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fucking apologist. Don't you get it? I wouldn't touch an iPad with a fucking barge pole. I don't want to be part of your fucking ecosystem.

    By the same token, you are also an apologist. However, unlike the poster you berate, who came off as pragmatic, you sound like a petulant child.

  34. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by sudon't · · Score: 2

    I made a very similar analogy at least ten years ago, except I was saying, "what if you could only play a record on one authorized turntable?" The beauty of the digital world is that there is always a way around whatever restrictions they try to force you into. Anything I pay for is mine, and I do as I like with it. If I can't figure it out, there's always someone smarter than me who will.

    --
    -- sudon't

    Air-ride Equipped

  35. At what distance? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    My Nexus 4 already wirelessly charges with a magnetic coupling trick.

    How far away from the charger?

    Most of the current wireless standards have you place a device basically on a charging plate.

    Apple's idea is that instead, it has a fairly broad field that exists into which you can place a device anywhere to charge - so you don't need to have wires running out to a charging plate, and you can also power a range of computer peripherals (like keyboard and mice) via remote power as well.

    I don't know if that is patentable but I do know it's a much better idea than any wireless charging system I have seen.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:At what distance? by Sedated2000 · · Score: 1

      It sits on it like a pedestal and enacts a "daydream" mode in the phone. I guess I misunderstood what the Apple patent was really about. That sounds more reasonable at least.

  36. Re:120 years late? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

    Given the general ridiculousness of patents, the propensity of large companies like Apple (by no means the only offender, but the one in question in this case) to submit patent applications on trivial things, and the VERY long history of wireless energy transfer at this point, I feel that the default position is that the patent should have never been awarded or even applied for and the onus is on anyone else claiming otherwise.

    And given how criminals tend to be, well, criminal, the default position is that they're guilty and the onus is on them to prove their innocence. I mean, who cares about due process?

    One is the state making accusations of wrongdoing against an entity, with monetary or restrictive consequences.

    The other is an entity petitioning the state to recognize and grant them a temporary monopoly, with monetary rewards potentially enforced by the state against other entities.

    Actually, the latter is also the state making a quasi-judicial decision to deny property rights to an inventor. The due process requirement absolutely applies.

  37. Man... by Sqreater · · Score: 1

    So now they are essentially trying to patent radio. If they get this patent, you can expect them to wake up and realize that sometime in the future and then watch the ridiculous lawsuits fly. What a joke. When will the patent madness end?

    --
    E Proelio Veritas.
    1. Re:Man... by toriver · · Score: 1

      Your "essentially" is a willful mis-reading and intentional misunderstanding. What was the purpose of that? They are not patenting radio. However, they are paying Nokia millions a year for "patents on radio".

  38. Apple Once Again, Rips off, then shuts pioneers ou by davydagger · · Score: 1

    Apple once again, re-invents someone elses ideas, sells it to hipsters, makes fortune, then uses than money on PR to write themselves in the history books as this great creating force.

    History repeats itself?

  39. It gets worse! [Re:Fuck your ecosystem] by DeadCatX2 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Let's say you wanted to use Bluetooth to talk to an iPod or an iPad. You'd think you could just buy a Bluetooth module from, say, Roving Networks - say, the RN-42, and then connect it to your PIC/Arduino and start sending Hello World, right?

    WRONG!

    Apple has not only extended Bluetooth to require a special iAP authentication chip, but they have a special licensing program called MFi.

    Okay, you say, so maybe this is like USB, you pay a few grand and get a VID and then go about your business.

    WRONG!

    The requirements surrounding MFi are ridiculous. For example, Apple will run a credit check on your company. If you are not a high-volume manufacturing company, then you're stuck with only the development license, and you will have to outsource your manufacturing. A development license is required even if you want to design an in-house app. Hobbyists need not apply - you cannot even get the development license if you want to design something for personal use. Oh, and you need to sign an NDA before they will tell you the royalty rates.

    --
    :(){ :|:& };:
    1. Re:It gets worse! [Re:Fuck your ecosystem] by Dahan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Let's say you wanted to use Bluetooth to talk to an iPod or an iPad. You'd think you could just buy a Bluetooth module from, say, Roving Networks - say, the RN-42, and then connect it to your PIC/Arduino and start sending Hello World, right?

      WRONG!

      You're grossly overstating things. If you just want to "Hello World" with an iOS device (i.e., do standard things like OBEX or A2DP), you can just use Bluetooth-standard components and protocols. As Apple's documentation says, "Third-party accessories can use the iPod Accessory Protocol (iAP) to access advanced features of iOS devices. One such feature is the ability to communicate securely with third-party iOS applications via the iOS External Accessory Framework." (see page 21).

      So, as you can see, you only need to support iAP if you want to do Apple-specific things. You can easily empirically verify that standard BT features don't need iAP support by noting that you can pair a generic Bluetooth headset (including ones that predate the iPod Touch) with an iOS device, and it will work. You don't need to get a special "Made for iPhone" headset.

    2. Re:It gets worse! [Re:Fuck your ecosystem] by DeadCatX2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My employer recently submitted a grant proposal about a device that could potentially connect to an iPod over Bluetooth, and one of the grant reviewers nailed us over MFi licensing. But even aside from that...

      From Roving Networks' website:

      "All products designed to connect to iPhone's, iPod's and iPad's including those that incorporate the Roving Bluetooth APL module must be registered and approved with Apple's Made for iPod (MFi) program."

      From Apples' website:

      "Developers who wish to develop electronic accessories for iPhone, iPad or iPod using licensed components and/or software should join the MFi Program. Companies, organizations, government entities and educational institutions are eligible to apply. Case developers, app developers and developers of accessories that only use standard technology (e.g., Bluetooth Low Energy or standard Bluetooth profiles supported by iOS) do not need to join the MFi Program."

      So while you are right that a standard Bluetooth profile (e.g. headset) doesn't require MFi licensing, which of these standard Bluetooth profiles would you use for your Hello World example?

      And just keep in mind that Android support requires NONE of this MFi shit. No special iAP authentication chip. No need to shoehorn yourself into a standard profile to avoid having Apple run a credit check on you. No onerous restrictions on hobbyists or small businesses which have no mass manufacturing capability.

      --
      :(){ :|:& };:
    3. Re:It gets worse! [Re:Fuck your ecosystem] by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      So while you are right that a standard Bluetooth profile (e.g. headset) doesn't require MFi licensing, which of these standard Bluetooth profiles would you use for your Hello World example?

      What you're describing would be a better fit for Bluetooth LE and the Core Bluetooth Framework.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  40. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2

    That's how it works - more or less - in the PC space

    Exactly. If I want to run Microsoft Office on FreeBSD on the new MacBookPro, it's hassle free. Everything just works.

  41. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by rmelton · · Score: 1

    Sony? didn't they make http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Tape. I don't remember it being "open" (or successful) but don't kid yourself into believing sony wouldn't desire or try to lock users into a exclusive (or licensed) ecosystem.

  42. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by Khyber · · Score: 1

    When the seller of the device and seller of the media happen to be one and the same, that's more than enough stopping me.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  43. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by omnichad · · Score: 1

    On the bright side, Ultraviolet is the new standard in digital copies, and it's fairly open to multiple studios. Not that I want my media in a DRM'ed file, but it's better than what Sony would do by itself.

  44. Re:Prior Art by toriver · · Score: 1

    Has it occurred to you that perhaps Apple's method is different from Tesla's? You do not patent "ideas". For a given idea there can be dozens of patents, each expressing the idea differently.

  45. Re:120 years late? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    And given how criminals tend to be, well, criminal,

    Your analogy is flawed.

    Taking the freedom away from an individual is bad so we have the presumption of innocence and a judicial system. If the judicial system is in complete disrepute (for example in Saudi Arabia) then we would not consider it just to lock that person up despite being a criminal.

    The patent system is in complete disrepute so although the patent system takes away the freedom of so many individuals, I, and many others here don't consider it just. In fact it's so far in disrepute that I would not consider an idea to be original purely based on it being patented. Just like I would not consider someone to be evil purely based on the fact they they were imprisoned by the Saudi authorities.

    Or, to put it another way: restricting the freedoms of an individual should only be done with great care and proper consideration. Patents are such a restriction and they yet they are not awarded with great care and proper consideration.

    So, I still feel that the default position is that the patent should have never been awarded or even applied for and the onus is on anyone else claiming otherwise.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  46. Re:The little guy is already fucked. by Americano · · Score: 1

    Because it actively prevents "the little guy" from having any legal protection whatsoever. Because it tells the little guy, "Don't bother to try innovating, if you want to do R&D, you better do it in the lab of a giant multinational." Because there are plenty of counterexamples where a "little guy" has invented something and been able to extract licensing fees from "the big guys" as a result of patents that the "little guy" owns. But it seems that now that Apple is suing Samsung, we have to immediately stop all patents, right now, no matter how stupid or misguided the replacement system we've designed is.

    I know that it's cool to hate on the patent system here on Slashdot, but this proposal is *actively worse* than the current system. It does NOTHING to prevent "bad" patents from getting in - the big guys have the pockets and legal team to continue pushing the applications through, and they'll end up fighting each other in court anyway. All it does is tell the "little guys," "just go home, don't try to invent something new."

  47. Re:Apple Once Again, Rips off, then shuts pioneers by toriver · · Score: 1

    Yeah, because no inventions have ever come based on someone else's. An "idea" can have dozens of patents that implement it, but there are people out there - like you most likely - who are convinced that patents apply to ideas. And so the quarrel continues.

  48. News-flash: Technician missing what users want. by SuperKendall · · Score: 3

    It's a horrible idea. The amount of power wasted just emitting it out into the air, especially at distance.

    The idea is great. Who does NOT want a keyboard and mouse that you don't need to attach with wires or replace batteries in?

    You seem to be concerned with power wasted, but you are missing the broader point of thinking up good ideas and then figuring out how to make them practical. One possibly is that it's issuing a very low amount of power, not nearly enough to charge a phone - but enough to let a keyboard/mouse transmit.

    You need to learn to separate how truly good an idea is from the technology of the moment that could make it happen but may have flaws.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  49. not quite correct by Chirs · · Score: 2

    The innovative part of the claim is actually to have the computer send power to a one device then have that device in turn send some of that power to one or more other devices.

    The main benefit is that you can support multiple wireless devices and only one of them needs to be within range of the main charger.

    1. Re:not quite correct by Kergan · · Score: 1

      You said it better than I could. :-)

      Methinks it's a pretty smart idea, too.

  50. you're all missing the point! by Chirs · · Score: 1

    The "novel" idea here is that you have a main charger and a bunch of wireless devices. At least some of those devices can *retransmit* some fraction of the received power to other devices.

    The main benefit is that you only need to have one of the wireless devices in range of the main power transmitter, and it will re-radiate the power to the other wireless devices.

  51. Re:120 years late? by JazzLad · · Score: 1

    Unless they are zombies, the bastards. Gotta carry a .22, just in case.

    --
    "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
  52. Any recent invention that Apple has not patented? by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Maybe a few that Microsoft patented?

    Why do judges allow it?

  53. TFT != TFS, for FS!! by patella.whack · · Score: 1

    for Fuck's Sake,

    sensational title: " Apple patents wireless charging" !=
    sensational summary: "Apple is trying to patent wireless charging" !=
    the fact that Apple is trying to patent a specific method for wireless charging

    @&%$!

    how about some basic accuracy?

  54. Re:120 years late? by pipedwho · · Score: 1

    No. The latter is the State taking away property rights from everyone else; in this case due process must be applied in the reverse direction to make the analogy work. Without the granted patent, no one loses access to the 'property' in question.

  55. "Harmonic Resonance" ? by Ozoner · · Score: 2

    I know what Harmonics are I know what Resonance is, but I don't understand the term "Harmonic Resonance".
    I'll bet that you don't either.

    Likewise the term "resonating and amplifying". Resonance doesn't Amplify. Only Amplifiers Amplify.

    You come across as just another Tesla fan boy. Scientifically Illiterate.

    1. Re:"Harmonic Resonance" ? by michael_rendier · · Score: 1

      Well...i guess that wikipedia didn't help you with terms that you don't like...here...lemme help you...anything that resonates can create oscillations that lead to amplification... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance you seem to be lacking on the data here...but thanks for your attempt at looking smart!

      --
      There are three kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't.
  56. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by djdanlib · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yep. You're correct that someone will always crack the DRM. Restrictions like these mar the beauty of digital information though. Just because someone makes a way to break DRM, doesn't make DRM less evil. A lot of people use that to justify not caring about it - since it won't affect them. You shouldn't have to de-DRM things you buy. Not having DRM would count as beautiful.

  57. Re:120 years late? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

    No. The latter is the State taking away property rights from everyone else; in this case due process must be applied in the reverse direction to make the analogy work. Without the granted patent, no one loses access to the 'property' in question.

    Patents are property, and just like any other property, there's a right to exclude others - by saying that your house is yours, the state is taking away property rights from everyone else who wants to go in your house without your permission... Are you saying that due process requires we take away everyone's homes unless they can prove validity of their deed?

    The relevant statute is 35 USC 102, which states that a person is entitled to a patent unless certain conditions are met. That means that the government is obligated to grant the patent, unless they can prove the existence of those conditions. If you don't like the law, then lobby to change it, but the law and due process currently require the presumption of validity.

  58. By rights have to give this one to Apple by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 1

    Apple started talking about "real" wireless charging solutions way back when the original iPhone came out, well before Android and WP8 existed and long before they had Qi based "wireless" charging phones. Remember this is not "contact" charging, but over the air charging. All the claims Apple ripped this one off from Qi is based on ignorance, not fact.

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
  59. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by stewbacca · · Score: 1

    That's the walled garden that so many companies are now trying to drag us into. And I think it stinks.

    So don't buy in. Some of us like the business model. A lot of us, evidently. But really, it's as easy as you picking a different brand if you don't like it.

  60. Re:Apple Once Again, Rips off, then shuts pioneers by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 1

    First, Apple doesn't' shut pioneers out unless the pioneers were too stupid to file proper patents. If Qi only filed patents for contact based "wireless" charging, then they themselves are only to blame for losing out in the over the air wireless charging market.

    While I too am annoyed greatly with Apple the big question is why isn't any other company filing these kinds of patents? I mean you can complain all you want about Apple innovating marginally on other peoples inventions, but in the end its stupid companies like Samsung, Google and Microsoft being left in the dust for not focusing on protecting their bottom line through patent hoarding.

    For instance Microsoft came out with a touch type based keyboard smart cover for Surface. Cool, they one-upped Apple. Apple comes along and then files a patent for all potential novel uses for "smart" tablet covers, such as second screens, solar charging and many, many other features, pretty much EVERYTHING Microsoft's touch keyboard cover doesn't do. It was VERY stupid for Microsoft to not protect their original idea by creating a patent to cover every conceivable use for a smart cover. Microsoft allowed Apple the opportunity to walk in and patent the Swiss Army Knife of smart covers. Now Apple can ensure that no other competitor will create a "smarter" tablet cover because even if Apple doesn't create a new smart cover, they can prevent other companies from creating smarter tablet covers.

    Apple is a greedy patent whore, but the rest of the industry seems oblivious to protect themselves by filing just as many stupid patents themselves. If I was Microsoft or Google or Samsung I would not release a "new" idea until I have 100 patents filed that cover every conceivable potential use based on that one new idea.

    Yeah, the way patents are used today sucks, but if you don't join the patent whoremongerers such as Apple, then you are going to fail, period.

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
  61. Re:120 years late? by pipedwho · · Score: 1

    Again, no. It's like someone claiming/annexing the public park land next door to their house without any due process that they are actually entitled to it.

    Property is not assumed just because someone claims it as their own. Due process must be considered. And the safe 'default' for any property, especially 'intellectual property' is that it belongs to the public trust until appropriate measures have been taken to reassign it. (Which is what the patent office is supposed to do.)

    The way the patent system is run at present is more like a frenzied land grab. Where someone will claim park land that actually belongs to the community centre next door, and then proceed to abuse that status to prosecute for trespass anyone within a 1 kilometre radius of that land - including you, because you parked your car in the pre-existing community centre parking lot.

    Physical property is easy to define, generally simple to 'prove' title or trespass, and has very specific boundaries with no overlap. Whereas, a patent is hard to define, requires a large effort to 'prove' or defend against infringement claims, and has highly generalised boundaries with large areas of overlap to other public or private art. In fact, the word "property" has almost no bearing to the rights granted to a patent holder.

  62. Tesla by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Is rolling in his grave about now.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  63. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    Sure, but sellers of media are the same companies that manufacture the devices, and they all want the media they sell to only work on devices they make. Outside of music, it's pretty hard to find a service that will sell you content that will readily work on any device - e-books, videos etc are all walled gardens these days.

  64. Re:Apple Once Again, Rips off, then shuts pioneers by davydagger · · Score: 1

    "First, Apple doesn't' shut pioneers out unless the pioneers were too stupid to file proper patents."
    thats a good sign the patent system is broken as shit, and favors large corps.

  65. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by dudpixel · · Score: 1

    Except for the requirement to use iTunes (I assume it still works that way?). That could be stopping someone from doing it.

    And you already mentioned media compatibility. Is it possible to download a third-party media player on iOS?

    --
    This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
  66. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by dudpixel · · Score: 2

    That's how it works - more or less - in the PC space

    Exactly. If I want to run Microsoft Office on FreeBSD on the new MacBookPro, it's hassle free. Everything just works.

    Actually, I believe you're trolling. The bit you quoted from was not claiming that it was "hassle free" nor that "everything just works". It was merely claiming that it is possible to do it. And given your example, I'd say it is possible to do just that:

    "On FreeBSD/i386 8.0 and later Wine should work for most user applications including Microsoft Office 2007" http://wiki.freebsd.org/Wine

    So let's compare the PC space to the phone/tablet space again...

    Can Microsoft make Office for Mac and sell it on their own website? sure, no doubt they already do.

    Can Microsoft make Office for iOS and sell it on their own website? well, they could, but no one would be able to install it.

    Can Microsoft make Office for Android and sell it on their own website? sure, no problem, so long as the customer's Android build supports side-loading (which it will unless the software provider specifically disabled it).

    --
    This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
  67. Re:I Don't Want To Be Part of Your Fucking Ecosyst by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

    There are many 3rd-party media players available.

  68. Wrong by danwesnor · · Score: 1

    Above please find a list of people who commented without reading the original source material. Which is the patent itself, not the completely factually incorrect news article. It is not a patent on wireless charging. It's a patent for a specific way of relaying power through a keyboard to a mouse. In other words, a wireless keyboard and mouse where you don't need to change the batteries. Which is them just shooting their own ridiculously expensive rechargable AA battery business in the foot.