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Net Neutrality Bill Aimed At ISP Data Caps Introduced In US Senate

New submitter Likes Microsoft writes "Yesterday, Senator Ron Wyden (D-Oregon) introduced a Net Neutrality bill aimed at ISPs using data caps soley for profiteering purposes, rather than the 'traffic management' purpose they often claim. The text of the bill is available at Wyden's Senate page. It would require ISPs to be certified by the FCC before implementing data caps. It says, in part, 'The [FCC] shall evaluate a data cap proposed by an Internet service provider to determine whether the data cap functions to reasonably limit network congestion in a manner that does not unnecessarily discourage use of the Internet.' In a statement, Wyden said, 'Americans are increasingly tethered to the Internet and connecting more devices to it, but they don’t really have the tools to effectively manage data consumption across their networks. Data caps create challenges for consumers and run the risk of undermining innovation in the digital economy if they are imposed bluntly and not designed to truly manage network congestion.'"

42 of 151 comments (clear)

  1. Sen. Wyden. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dear Senator Wyden,

    Thank you for actually being a good Senator, that introduces good bills that create or change laws that help out the average US Citizen. I'm glad I voted for you the last time you were on the ballot, and if I still lived in Oregon I'd vote for you again.

    --
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    1. Re:Sen. Wyden. by Synerg1y · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If the FCC actually started to regulate the ISPs... it's too much to hope for. But then if even if the FCC starts regulating ISPs, look at what happened in the big pharma / FDA world, the FDA got bent over and ISPs have deep pockets like big pharma, so it may happen again.

    2. Re:Sen. Wyden. by afidel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Considering basically every transaction carried out over the internet is an interstate transaction you couldn't be further from reality.

      --
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    3. Re:Sen. Wyden. by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 2

      Dear Senator Wyden,

      Thank you for actually being a good Senator, that introduces good bills that create or change laws that help out the average US Citizen. I'm glad I voted for you the last time you were on the ballot, and if I still lived in Oregon I'd vote for you again.

      I'm too cynical, my immediate reaction is "What is he getting from this, and does it have any real chance of passing?".

    4. Re:Sen. Wyden. by smooth+wombat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Dear Bradley

      What part of communication isn't understood in Federal Communications Commission?

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    5. Re:Sen. Wyden. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Senator Wyden,

      I have never lived in Oregon, but I do work in Chicago, and will happily vote for you twice in any future election.

    6. Re:Sen. Wyden. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Practical Reason #1: Because nobody else is doing it. ISPs are basically like utilities in function; natural monopolies that are exquisitely well positioned to price-gouge, because the nature of their business is effectively insulated from competition, and they are completely reliant on the government to deploy infrastructure at all in the first place (Can you imagine how many property owners you need to deal with to lay cable?)

      Pedantic Legalistic Asshole (This is you) Reason #1 : Because the internet is a needed part of interstate commerce, and by screwing with it locally, you screw with your resident's ability to conduct interstate commerce.

      "Go screw yourself" Reason #1 : Because they took federal subsidies to function, you will shut up and listen, or we will yank funding, cripple you, and give it to someone else. See why highway constructors must play nice with the Federal Government or die.

    7. Re:Sen. Wyden. by Synerg1y · · Score: 2

      Agreed, healthy competition would be a much better alternative in the long run, but we're at a breaking point here, 4-5 companies in the states own the infrastructure for these services and are free to do with it as they please. And so far, they have, Comcast wanted to charge me $75 for basic internet if I didn't accept their promo plan, I'm pretty sure it doesn't cost them $10 (I'd love a real figure for this) to deliver this internet to me... 700%~ profit? Somethings gotta give.

      P.S. this is why ISPs always have "promos", they're still making tons of money at what we think is "cheap" internet

    8. Re:Sen. Wyden. by runeghost · · Score: 2

      Please mod parent up.

    9. Re:Sen. Wyden. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well most likely the government would at least make sure that the damn ISPs own services (like Comcast On Demand or their services via XBox) aren't mysteriously "exempted" from the cap in a bid to get rid of Netflix, Hulu, etc. We all know that the major streaming players put their content into large distributed content management (DCM) systems that live in the same data centers as the ISPs so the bogus claims they have of "wah, increased transit (peering) costs because netflix, wah" are crap anyway. In fact, now that cable has gone all digital, they shouldn't exempt TV service either. I want to either have no cap or have a cap that is completely agnostic to whatever protocols or data is transmitted over it. My TiVo can record 4 streams at once through the m-card. If I do that, I am consuming more resources than the person recording one stream. Count it in the cap or don't cap at all. This is where government intervention makes sense. We can't rely on any "invisible hand" of the market since the companies were typically granted monopolies in many areas when they agreed to run the wires there. Since the market isn't free, it does need regulation.

    10. Re:Sen. Wyden. by LiENUS · · Score: 4, Informative

      "pants-on-head retarded" ? no it probably doesn't exist in the constitution but Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 says "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;" that's a fancy way of saying they have the authority to regulate interstate commerce. How applicable it is for 99% of the stuff they say allows it I wont argue, but the constitution does in fact give them the authority to regulate commerce among the states.

    11. Re:Sen. Wyden. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I assume you read the bill? Unless my reading of the bill is wrong, there are a few small points you may wish to consider...
      1) IANAL, but it seems the bill makes no allowment for an ISP that does not have a data cap. It seems to codify into law that all ISPs will have a data cap, and provide monitoring of user traffic to determine usage and monitoring tools for those users.
      2) Failure to provide these tools results in fines, the abililty for users to get money from from the government for any overage charges, and any funds in the money gained by fines goes into the General Fund to ostensibly "fight the deficit" - yeah right.
      3) This bill is an example of administrative law, which in my opinion is a bad idea. They are giving carte blanche to the FCC to do as they wish. My opinion is that if it's important enough to have a law on, it's important enough for the legislators to actually create rather than "some unnamed beurocrat will decide..." type crap.
      4) The article nor the bill thus make any mention of how often re-certification would have to happen - i.e. if this law had always existed, we could be stuck with 1990 level data caps and might not be able to do anything about it.

      So THANK YOU, dear Senator Wyden for trying to mess up the internet, in a bill that, from the headline, sounds like a good idea. Afterall, headlines and perception is all that really matters.

    12. Re:Sen. Wyden. by fredprado · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When healthy competition does not exist which is more often than not the case in our world, regulation, inefficient as it may be, is the only way to combat abuses.

    13. Re:Sen. Wyden. by datavirtue · · Score: 2

      Because his family members and friends are pissed about data caps on their phones. This is one bit of lobbying I don't mind though.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    14. Re:Sen. Wyden. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Pedantic Legalistic Asshole (This is you) Reason #1 : Because the internet is a needed part of interstate commerce, and by screwing with it locally, you screw with your resident's ability to conduct interstate commerce.

      This is bad reasoning that is unfortunately steeped in legal precedent. This is the same mindset that allowed the Federal government to restrict how much wheat a farmer could grow on his farm, because he was "exert[ing] a substantial economic effect on interstate commerce" by being self-sufficient enough that he did not need to buy wheat from out-of-state (see: Wickard v Filburn).

    15. Re:Sen. Wyden. by Synerg1y · · Score: 4, Insightful

      4G = wireless, comcast = coaxial, different level of availability and yes speed. No idea why 4g is your only option besides you maybe live more rural in which case I'd look into satellite internet (good d/l bad u/l). Also doesn't t-mobile offer unlimited 4g data? I've seriously considered telling comcast to go fuck themselves and getting t-mobile and paying the different to not deal w comcast anymore.

  2. Re:Does the FCC have this authority? by degeneratemonkey · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, no, the FCC does not have the authority to do this. This story is about a bill that would grant the FCC such authority.

    It won't pass though, because there is a lot more money against than there is in favor.

  3. Re:Does the FCC have this authority? by jhoegl · · Score: 3, Informative

    The law is created in the bill. The FCC is the enforcer or "over watch" of the law.
    Much like when you contact the FCC for a spectrum use violation.

  4. Netflix... by sandytaru · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We start approaching our monthly ISP imposed data cap of 150 GB just from watching Netflix. One room mate nearly busted us through when she started watching the new Dr. Who series, beginning from the first David Tennant episode on up.

    If I remember right, Netflix currently accounts for about one third of all total Internet data usage.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    1. Re:Netflix... by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 2

      ...started watching the new Dr. Who series, beginning from the first David Tennant episode on up.

      This is important stuff, worthy of a regulatory fix. I'm not being sarcastic.

    2. Re:Netflix... by sandytaru · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nope. ISPs are given a virtual monopoly on their method of delivery. We have AT&T DSL and that's all we can get through the phone lines. We had tried Charter cable, but their data cap is the same at 150 GB, and their QoS was ten times worse and the bill was twenty dollars more.

      We've talked about going to a business grade fiber connection at $200/month, but that's only on the table if one of us has a true telecommuting job. As it is, our offices are 15 minutes away and neither of us work enough from home to justify it.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    3. Re:Netflix... by cluedweasel · · Score: 4, Informative

      My ISP has a 150Gb limit too. When we moved here it was unlimited. Then the ISP proposed a 30Gb monthly limit. After a local campaign, they acted like they were going to go bankrupt after upping it to 100Gb. Now it's 150Gb. I called them when the 100Gb limit came in and asked them how I was meant to use Netflix and the like with 100Gb. their answer was to use their own VOD system. To me, there's the heart of the matter - it's not the cost of transport, it's protecting their own revenue from online competitors. BTW, this ISP (Bend Broadband) is in Mr. Wydens district and he was receptive to complaints about their data caps.

  5. Re:Does the FCC have this authority? by StormReaver · · Score: 2, Informative

    How about congress actually pass a LAW on this, after all, they are supposed to be the legislators, eh?

    I know most people don't bother reading the stories here, but did you bother to even read the summary (which actually does a decent job of summarizing the story)?

    This is a bill. Bills become laws if they are approved by Congress.

  6. Re:Does the FCC have this authority? by DragonWriter · · Score: 5, Informative

    Does the FCC actually have the authority to do this?

    This isn't the FCC doing something, its a member of Congress proposing a law directing the FCC to do it. If they pass the law, then the FCC will, ipso facto, have authority to do it (assuming, of course, that Congress has Constitutional authority to pass the law.)

    How about congress actually pass a LAW on this, after all, they are supposed to be the legislators, eh?

    That's exactly what Senator Wyden is proposing: Congress passing a LAW that would ISPs from imposing data caps without prior approval of the specific cap meeting specific requirements from the FCC.

  7. Wary by HaZardman27 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Couldn't this serve to discourage ISPs from improving their infrastructure? If they let their infrastructure age, they'd be spending nothing on improvement, and would eventually be allowed to put data caps in place as bandwidth usage increases.

    Disclaimer: Didn't RTFA.

    --
    Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    1. Re:Wary by Microlith · · Score: 4, Informative

      Couldn't this serve to discourage ISPs from improving their infrastructure?

      They don't need any prompting to not improve their infrastructure. Their "solution" is to impose arbitrary limits and offers slow service to stretch their profit margins by not improving their infrastructure. Competition is necessary for them to improve and they fight vigorously to deny it, suing municipalities to prevent them from offering their own lower cost, higher quality services.

    2. Re:Wary by DigiShaman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The ISP industry is an oligopoly. In some cases, monopoly depending on where you live. Good or bad, you can thank the government for limiting new players entry into this market. So the idea of 'free market' can be thrown out the window in this discussion.

      Caps are bad in that they foster regression of infrastructure. Simply put, there's massive profits in scarcity. That's econ 101.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    3. Re:Wary by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 2

      I suspect in some markets, that might be the case. The true problem is government-sanctioned monopolies. There needs to be competition. Where I live, there are two providers of Cable service, and the requisite DSL. Only DSL has a cap, and quite frankly, it's useless compared to the two cable companies. This idea of capping usage at a certain amount is not about traffic management at all. It's about trying to squeeze money out of customers. Throttling bandwidth during peak usage is more logical, but since they're not really doing it for that reason, they cap data. The FCC could, in the absence of market forces (competition), be more stringent about not gouging customers. After all, the company got a monopoly sanctioned by the local government... they wanted that sort of control. So since they wanted to play in that arena, the government who granted the monopoly should force their own regulations on them, backed by the regulatory power of the FCC. Or the ISP can let competition in. It's their choice. Normally, I'm market focused and loathe government interference, but since the market has been fiddled with by the government already to prevent competition and true market forces, I don't mind them manipulating the monopoly ...

      --
      It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
    4. Re:Wary by VortexCortex · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Couldn't this serve to discourage ISPs from improving their infrastructure? If they let their infrastructure age, they'd be spending nothing on improvement, and would eventually be allowed to put data caps in place as bandwidth usage increases.

      They have no incentive currently. In fact, applying data caps is how they decided to make more money instead of building out infrastructure to meet demand. Look, data caps don't help congestion at all (except, perhaps, through fear of using your service?) If the services are over-subscribed then at peak times the load is more than the bandwidth they advertise -- Think rush hour traffic. Would limiting the distance you could drive per month reduce the demand for car lanes during rush hour? Ni, ni and ni... That's just silly! Instead what you'd do is limit your over all use so that you were assured driving distance when you needed it. This means that there would be less Traffic on Off Peak Times -- When there is plenty of bandwidth available! This is also why metered bandwidth is a farce, unless they charge a lot more during peak times.

      There has to be enough hardware in place to handle that peak load, the number of bits doesn't matter over a month -- It only matters during off peak times: The hardware is still there, it's just not being used. The Current doesn't matter, it's the Pressure / Voltage! The Wires have to be big enough for peak usage, not for total power used in a day, week or month, it's not like you use up the electrons and the wires have to be replaced... THINK MAN!

      You must understand, it's more profitable in the short term to over sell bandwidth than to build out infrastructure. The data caps are merely an attempt to squeeze more money out of the system. WTF does it matter if you use netflix or bittorrent all night long when there is plenty of bandwidth to go around? The problem is that there are more folks trying to use the same sized pipe during peak times -- Not that the damn routers run out of bits!

      MY PIPES! DE CAPS DO NOTHING!

  8. More Regulation by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Informative

    An alternative to this would be to finally break the monopoly faced by many Americans on their broadband cable services.

    I live in an area served by both FIOS and Cablevision, and neither have caps, and have played them against each other to get discounts on my service bills.

  9. Dear Investment Opportunity Wyden by ohnocitizen · · Score: 3, Funny

    Let's cut to the chase. In the modern political arena our money faces no obstacles whatsoever. It is up to you whether that money supports you in your next run for office or pours into your precious state decimating not only your own campaign but every other congress critter down-ticket along party lines. Not that we enjoy threatening our investment opportunities, far from it. Its just business.

    Hugs and Kisses,

    ISPs

  10. Re:IF this passes? A partial "remedy" exists... ap by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 2

    Did /. just get spammed by an ad from someone who's anti-ad? Oh, the irony...

  11. Paved with good intentions, but... by jettoblack · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While this law sounds reasonable on the surface and seems well enough intentioned, looking at the past history of government regulations, I can't help but assume that even if this were to pass, the law will be twisted and manipulated to the point that it actually hurts the end users or stifles competition. Perhaps the requirements for compliance with the law will be so onerous that small ISPs cannot compete, leaving only the big players and a high barrier to entry, or it will prevent new innovative business models and force us to stick with the status quo even if a better alternative is found.

    For example, the regulations for bidding for government contracts were intended to level the playing field, reduce corruption, and lower costs. But as the regulations became more and more complicated (trying to plug the loopholes), only the biggest contractors with government bidding officers and on-staff lawyers can actually get through all the red tape. The result is that small players cannot compete and costs go up. The regulations ended up doing exactly the opposite of what was intended.

    1. Re:Paved with good intentions, but... by Hatta · · Score: 2

      For similar reasons, we should deregulate assault, theft, and fraud. Because government regulation always leaves the little guy at a disadvantage.

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  12. Re:Does the FCC have this authority? by larry+bagina · · Score: 2

    You forgot the third option: slapped down because the law giving them authorization was unconstitutional.

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  13. Re:end of the world by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 2

    It's already over in Australia. We've discovered here that the Mayan apocalypse was actually only referring to anyone who's still trying to do their Christmas shopping. Seriously, have you been anywhere near a shopping centre (mall) in the last few days?

  14. Wireless Carriers by ebinrock · · Score: 2

    I wonder if this would apply to the wireless (cell phone) carriers as well. I mean, recently I watched one hour of a movie on my smartphone (and yes, I watched it using my data plan because the nearest free wi-fi wasn't capable of handling the kind of bandwidth required for streaming video -- that's something that's got to change, too), and that one time of viewing ate up close to 1 GB of my 4 GB plan. Sure, in this case it was entertainment, and I could have used more discretion, but what if it was an instructional video I had to see in the field for my job, and there was no [fast, reliable] wi-fi around? What's the point of moving forward in technology with the ability to stream video to mobile devices if the data plans are all severely limited in that respect? What, so people are always expected to wait until they're in a spot with [again, fast and reliable] wi-fi, which is usually indoors, to be able to see any kind of video on their mobile devices? What a crock! The wireless carriers need to get it together and get back to unlimited data plans with a ton more bandwidth. We pay a hell of a lot of money for these plans (and are often locked into them for two years); the least they can do is upgrade their networks to fit the times -- not only with fancy bell-and-whistle features like 4G LTE (and I do appreciate the faster speeds, mind you!), but also more BANDWIDTH so they don't have to impose these ridiculously low data caps for tons of $$$. We Americans pay some of the highest rates for cellular service in the civilized world.

  15. Re:Monopolies, AOK? by preaction · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The government exists to regulate monopolies that must exist, like power, gas, water, waste disposal, police, fire, and transportation, and break those that must not, like telephone, computer hardware, and computer software.

    Those monopolies I listed must exist because of the barrier to entry and the potential consequences of a monopoly. Electricity and gas being necessary to survive winter, or even summer for some folks, a company cannot be allowed to hold someone's life for ransom. Water is a necessity of life, which is why it's provided by the city government (who holds a monopoly on it). On the other hand, there are things a monopoly can do better than competition, like take a loss on serving certain customers because the loss is made up by less costly customers, or make a large capital investment because they can take a credit risk and be assured that customers have no other choice (in a more competitive market, risk is heightened).

    Of course, what I've just said is a good argument for government-owned fiber to the home (except for the "necessary for life" thing, which is only a matter of time).

  16. Re:Cap and Compete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    How about: ISPs are freely allowed to impose data caps, but everything sent over the connection has to be in those caps.

  17. Data caps suck but so does legislation by WaffleMonster · · Score: 2

    If your going to legislate anything how about opening up the last mile cable monopolies to competition as was done with the telephone network for DSL?

    You will never solve anything if your answer to side effects of lack of effective competition is legislation. Most of our pricing and service issues can can be traced back to effects of prior decade of nonstop consolidation in the ISP market to the point where in too many areas there is no other ISP to choose from.

    I have a feeling if you pass such legislation the ISP will just drop your speed for the rest of the month to work around the inconvience... see your not capped..wink wink..... good luck with that netflix video.

    With few exceptions caps in USA have some analogy to electricity usage and rush hour in that peak usage is all that matters. While you could argue pricing structures more closely matching the cost of production are better..another argument could be made that caps are easier for the user to understand, minimizes cost of any metering infustructure and puts least mental constraints on natural tendancies of users.

    There is also the idea that any legislation benefits large ISPs who have staff, power and money to get their way disadvantaging the smaller ones we ought to be doing everything possible to promote to increase competition and systematically reign in fat, lazy, selfish tendancies that accompany being a monopoly.

  18. Way To Go Sen Wyden! by detain · · Score: 2

    This has been needed since netflix type video services started getting popular. You cant use internet video streaming without hitting a bandwidth cap pretty fast unless your ok with gameboy resolution in your stream. Movies simply dont look that good unless you view them at full resolution, and netflix at HD resolution is up to 2GB/hour. Leaving your internet tv streaming during the day will eat up most any bandwidth cap.

    --
    http://interserver.net/
  19. All four major carriers are interstate by tepples · · Score: 2

    A mobile network operator with coverage in multiple states engages in "commerce [...] among the several States", which the Constitution grants the Congress power to regulate.