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Teens Drug Parents To Get Web Access
linuxwrangler writes "Two teens are behind bars after hatching a plan that involved drugging milkshakes they gave to the parents of one of the kids. The parents were suspicious after waking groggy the next day, and used a home drug-test on one of the remaining drinks. The teens came up with the plan in order to avoid their 10pm Internet curfew."
brings all the web to the night, damn right.
She drugs her parents to surf the web......... I'm guessing video games will get blamed for this.
Any bets they will get web access in the juvenile detention centre?
Of course, if they had drank the entire milkshake, there would have been no surprise at next-day grogginess!
the groggy feeling of being drugged the night before, or that knowing your daughter doesn't have a problem doing stuff like this to you.
Be seeing you...
Sociopathic tendencies seem to be genetic, and there is certainly plenty of selective pressure in favor of these traits in the modern day.
But I sincerely doubt they'll have much choice in when they can use it.
Control freak parents or not the kids were under their roof so their word was law.
It's been that way ever since the days of cave men.
If the kids don't like those rules they should get jobs and earn some of their own freedom.
Stupid kids. If your going to go to such trouble you should have called child services when confronted. No more parents to deal with.
I can only assume we're talking Benzo's here, based on the drug testing kit.
Based on the description of the "next morning" I think it's same to assume we're talking about Ambien.
How does a teenager get a prescription for Ambien? ...And enough of it to drug two grown adults (with only 1/4 dosage) ?
These benzo's can be expensive. What teenager has the money to blow on a handful of drugs, for the sole purpose of "surfing the web late at night"?
Something tells me there's a lot more to this story.
It's not right for a parent to adjudicate who is allowed to use the Internet that *THEY* pay for?
Really, if the kid wants their own internet, they should get themselves emancipated and move out.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Where you drug drinks and give them to adults. Curse you video games!
Control freak parents or not the kids were under their roof so their word was law.
Well, there are definitely limits there. But imposing a 22:00 Internet curfew is well within the bounds.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
"drug testing kit"
Yeah no. I don't think the average dipshit would have any idea how to get ahold of that.
And any they WOULD get ahold of. Are not going to 'detect' any sleeping medication the average teen could even get ahold of.
Let alone who the hell keeps a milkshake around overnight.
This story sounds 100% made up. The media will eat it up tho. But not too much. It's too fake.
Sorry, but if you don't like it, move out of their basement.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
Obviously the reaction was sociopathic
Fixed that for you.
They fell asleep and were groggy the next day from 1/4 of the milkshake. Suppose they'd drunk the whole thing. They might be dead by now. Sorry, but I can't side with the kids on this. While I doubt the juvenile justice system is going to do them much good, what they did is definitely outside the bounds of acceptable behavior and should be considered criminal.
If I were the parents, I'd wait until they were convicted, then discuss sentencing options and see about making sure the harm is minimized. They deserve a really good scare and to see just how coldly the system can treat them for their incredibly outrageous and entitled behavior.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
It was only sleeping medicine, jesus... they acted like their kid and her friend slipped them cyanide.
What if one of them decided to drive to the corner store?
What if one of them decided to have a glass of wine before bed... maybe a cold beer?
What if they actually finished the shakes?
What if the parents are taking conflicting prescriptions?
What if they were taking the same prescription meds they were slipped?
What if one of them was allergic to the drug?
I could continue, but I think you can understand what the problem is.
I know this is an old peeve, but still: this story is about kids drugging parents to get $THING. Is it on /. only because $THING == Internet?
This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
'Behind bars'.
But not convicted, only facing charges. The word 'allegedly' is missing from this article.
It still could have easily been a deadly mistake, and maybe some time in juvenile detention might teach the kids some judgement that they apparently haven't learned so far. I can't speak for my parenting skills, since that's an extremely hypothetical situation, but by the time we were that age (whatever age that was, I didn't even look) our parents had beaten more sense than that into us. Hooray, child abuse!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
If the kids were capable of drugging their parents (and the parents had a home drug test kit handy), I'm guessing this is not the first time they've butted heads. Maybe they decided it was time for a little tough love.
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
If they had been slipped cyanide, they wouldn't be acting like anything. They'd be dead.
Drugging somebody against their will is a rather serious crime, and there is no doubt this was premeditated, making it almost on par with attempted murder. In many jurisdictions, the victim of a crime of this severity might be allowed to request that charges be dropped, but it is still up to prosecuting attorney to actually do so. If the prosecuting attorney thinks that the crime is too severe to allow the perpetrator to go unpunished, and, subjectively, especially if there is no indication of repentance on the part of the perpetrator, then the charges will stand. A judge will determine what actual sentence is appropriate.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
They have a home drug test kit that tests for prescription drugs? Is there such a thing?
I thought those kits tested for illegal drugs. Isn't that the whole point of them?
It's on America's tortured brow, That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow
Sure, but would you want to throw your kid into juvenile justice just because of some dumb stunt?
.: Semper Absurda
Shouldn't have been running bit-torrent while daddy was playing CoD. Who doesn't wanna have someone thrown in jail for lagging their connection?
No more inner tubes!
Unless these kids know about safe dosages (how much did they put in if the parents only had to drink one quarter?!?), interactions with other drugs or side effects that might interfere with medical conditions, etc, there's the possibility it could have been as lethal as cyanide. Fucking around with someone's body chemistry is never trivial.
Blank until
They fell asleep and were groggy the next day from 1/4 of the milkshake. Suppose they'd drunk the whole thing.
I am not a doctor, but all medications come in varying dosages. We don't exactly know the whole story here, so stop making assumptions.
If I were the parents, I wouldn't have had my own children arrested, or put them in a position to be arrested. I would have handled the situation privately and discretely, disciplining as necessary. Even a misdemeanor fucks up your future these days, I had parents that understood this when I did dumb things growing up. You're a fool if you think even the juvenile system in this country is capable of any sort of rehabilitation, and certainly is capable of much less than that available from a couple of loving parents.
The parents were being vindictive, that's the only explanation. Or they're downright retarded and should be arrested for child endangerment.
My bet here is that something was seriously wrong in this household, and the teen was acting out in the only way she knew how.
The problem is though, controlling a child in silly ways like an "internet curfew" when they are teenagers isn't productive and leads to deeper problems.
Of course there are times to be firm and times to be unyielding, namely when a child's safety is at stake. But silly things like an "internet curfew" will simply lead to the kid resenting their parents.
I think back to when I was in college, those with very strict and controlling parents usually ended up being the kids who drank heavily and skipped class and ended up having strained relations with their family. On the other hand, those with parents who were more rational and let their kids realize that staying up until 4 AM on the phone on weeknights lead to a miserable school day the next day rather than imposing a "phone curfew" ended up being more responsible.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
A few years ago, some people I know figured out that their teen-aged son was setting an alarm clock for 2:00 in the morning, and getting up and playing StarCraft on the Internet for a few hours and then going back to bed.
They weren't sure what was up, for a while, but they did notice he seemed like he wasn't well rested and his school teachers were noticing as well. He wasn't an A+ student to start with and this really wasn't helping his grades.
Hmm, maybe Blizzard should have made an ad featuring him. "StarCraft: it's better than sleep!"
Most modern wireless routers can be set to block internet automatically at a certain time of night for select devices in the house based on either IP address or MAC address. No reason to fight about it every night with the kids - set an automatic policy and communicate the policy. Simple.
It was only sleeping medicine, jesus... they acted like their kid and her friend slipped them cyanide. Why the hell would they have their child arrested? That is not exactly awesome for a kid's career and life... not exactly what I would do if she was my child.
I doubt their parents wanted to, but it's for their own good. If they were willing to drug their parents to go on the Internet, they'd be willing to murder and rob for extra spending money somewhere down the road. It's this kind of "oh, it's nothing big" lenient parenting that led to recent generations' general stupidity and lack of self-control.
maybe some time in juvenile detention might teach the kids some judgement that they apparently haven't learned so far.
So, by your logic, being placed around more people that have judgement problems would serve as an adequate solution?
but by the time we were that age (whatever age that was, I didn't even look) our parents had beaten more sense than that into us
I can't speak for my parenting skills, since that's an extremely hypothetical situation, but by the time we were that age (whatever age that was, I didn't even look) our parents had beaten more sense than that into us. Hooray, child abuse!
You should be sterilized, and I'm not laughing. At all. Your parents should've been, too, if they routinely beat you.
Except for the fact that you don't have your kid arrested.
Yeah, there's blame on both sides of the aisle. Yes, it was a pretty stupid thing to do to your parents, yes it was dangerous, reckless even. But to take it to court is basically to ensure that your kids have no future. Either because they turn to a life of crime after being released from jail (the US "justice" system isn't designed to provide for a bright future after release) or they become basically unemployable and live a life of poverty due to a criminal record.
There is absolutely nothing good that can come out of this situation.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Drugging people is serious. Please don't become a parent...
I think back to when I was in college, those with very strict and controlling parents usually ended up being the kids who drank heavily and skipped class and ended up having strained relations with their family. On the other hand, those with parents who were more rational and let their kids realize that staying up until 4 AM on the phone on weeknights lead to a miserable school day the next day rather than imposing a "phone curfew" ended up being more responsible.
I'm so glad you took the time out of your busy college schedule to interview each person you interacted with and determine how their parents brought them up as well as carefully studying them while in school to find and correlate their upbringing to their behavior in college.
um, no.
it's 10, go to bed.
go. to. bed.
no, you can't surf the internet. no, you can't stay up texting.
go. to. bed.
reasonable.
(ironic captcha: syringes)
and the parents had a home drug test kit handy
They had to drive to the police station to get one.
I say reward them for being so resourceful!
I think they'll go far in life.
It's a bedtime. Who didn't have that when they where a child?
What the fuck kind of parents are you people?
Completely reasonable ones hoping YOU never have kids.
For certain very serious crimes, such as this one (probably ranking just below premeditated attempted murder), it doesn't matter. The decision to drop charges for certain crimes such as this rests on the subjective judgement of the prosecuting attorney. The parents can only request charges be dropped. If the prosecuting attorney disagrees, the charges stand. It will still be taken into consideration in court, however, and could even result in a lighter or postponed sentence, especially if the kids seem to show some sense of remorse for what they did.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Dear god, mate, listen to yourself. At most, it could only be construed as manslaughter, not murder.
What the fuck is wrong with you people? You act like the teen intentionally tried to kill her parents.
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
Yes.
I can't believe they arrested her, though.
Was that really the only resolution? Or was it just the most convenient?
Something you need to ask yourselves.
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
The problem is though, controlling a child in silly ways like an "internet curfew" when they are teenagers isn't productive and leads to deeper problems.
It isn't out of the line, if the kid tends to stay up all ours of the night playing online. Or their school work suffers because they're sleepy in the morning.
Generally speaking:
If the young dependents are mature enough, and are willing to be emancipated, and can procure their own financial means, then they should be emancipated from their parents through a legal process. Sadly this doesn't happen often enough in the existing legal system. 18 is a good-enough "rule of thumb" to assume automatic emancipation if no one challenges it in a particular family, but it shouldn't be an inflexible one-size-fits-all commandment. (Likewise, if a person is mentally handicapped, the Rights of the parents / guardians should be extendabile beyond age 18.) As civilization advances, the cost of living relative to average salary should decline, and so it should be easier for more teenagers to pull this off.
But if those kids aren't ready and able to become independent economic actors and take full responsibility for their actions, then they have no choice but to "put up and shut up" as subjects of their parents / guardians. They have a full "Right to Life" and "Right to Emancipation", but not the "Right to Liberty" or "Right to Property". That's the temporary privilege that parents get for giving them life.
--libman
"I am not a doctor"
It shows.
The line between a dose that will reliably put a random person out against their will and what can shut down breathing or perhaps cause vomit aspiration is famously thin when you don't know about drug interactions, medical conditions, if they drank a couple beers on the way home, etc. etc.
If they'd drank the whole thing, maybe they'd have been alright, but then again maybe not.
Except for the fact that strict, controlling parenting is (most likely) what lead to this happening. I was blessed to have normal, sane, parents who cared enough to make sane rules based on reason, not irrationality. Rather than saying "no phone after X PM" they just let me suffer the consequences. If I talked on the phone until 4 AM on a weeknight, I went to school tired. They didn't say that I couldn't eat cookies. Instead if I went on an Oreo binge and ate the entire package I'd suffer the consequences (such as throwing up, to this day I can't eat an Oreo without gagging). On the other hand, those with strict parents with the most bizarre rules ended up being the kids that in college spent all their time drinking, partying and generally wasting away their life which further strained their relationship with their family.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
It's always those "what if" questions that drive me mad.
Look, Anonymous Coward, if a drugged parent went to the store, fell asleep, and killed someone,
the kids would be charged with manslaughter. The way things are, none of that happened. Mmkay?
Let the punishment fit the crime and all that jazz. You don't punish people for what may be, with narrow
exceptions like conspiracy charges.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
SIlly things like an internet curfew? how silly is that, let little betsy stay up till 2AM every single day fucking off on facebook then OMG how did she ever fail school and send off all those naked mirror pics to her boyfriend who dumped her when she got pregnant at age 15
stupid god damned parents!
If you think this type of thing will destroy their future then you are a fool. I know people with felony convictions that have had government jobs where they are in charge of departments. In reality, about the only type of conviction that will destroy a person's life is a sex offender one. they have to register everywhere they go, oftentimes have strange restrictions on where they live and what they can do. Misdemeanors and most felonies won't do it.
1. The kids DRUGGED THIER PARENTS to get what they wanterd. Although it was not a deadly drug, it doesn't change the fact they drugged their parents. This could lead to...
"they weren't killed, and I was going to bring it back - after all I need to borrow it next week for shopping..
"You know there is something called asking. You could have asked me to borrow it."
"yeah, but you might have said 'no' and this was easier and faster"
2. The kids need to learn what is and is not acceptable to do to another human being - admittedly they should have learned that sort of thing by age 6.
3. The kids need to learn that their are repercussions in life - and police arrest can be a big lesson.
The only problem with this is that the kid will possibly consider all of this as something done to them, by everyone else, and not repercussions of their actions.
End of the day, I don't know the kid, and I don't know the family. My familly would not have pulled the police into a home matter unless they were at their wits end. In this case, local laws may be taking precendence.
One final thought - Everyone was a kid at one point. How many of thought of ways did you think of as a kid to get around restictions imposed by your parents?
My memory says I blinkered myself this way: Parents become an obsticle to be climbed/beaten, like a fence at a concert, or ticket inspectors at train stations, or copying tapes/cd's/dvd's, or doing new things that everyone said was impossible before.
A lot of people who go to state schools end up going with a lot of their highschool classmates (and those of rival schools nearby). So they know the backstories of a lot of their college classmates.
If I were the parents, I wouldn't have had my own children arrested, or put them in a position to be arrested.
What about the kid involved who was not their child?
Refraining from reporting a crime is a bad idea. One of the major restraints against crime is the risk of getting caught and penalized.
Drugging a person is a serious violation of their body. The fact that the drug wasn't lethal makes it a less serious crime, but it's still a serious crime.
To say that the kids will have no future is an exaggeration, but the parents here are basically naive and it's
a common kind of naivete. I remember a story where the parent thought that their kid making out while under 16
with their friend was something that the child services would best take care of. Result: statutory rape charges
and a sexual offender record for the rest of kids' lives.
I think everyone should go to state or even federal prison for a week. It should be akin to compulsory civics lesson.
Things would change real quick once that policy was in place. First of all, adults wouldn't be so fucking naive.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Exactly. And THAT should be the punishment. If someone can stay up until 5 AM playing WoW and still end up doing well in school, what's the problem? If they're tired in the morning and end up having a horrible day because of it, chances are they're going to go to bed earlier so they don't get tired.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
I am not a doctor, but all medications come in varying dosages. We don't exactly know the whole story here, so stop making assumptions.
My bet here is that something was seriously wrong in this household, and the teen was acting out in the only way she knew how.
It seems funny how you can assume that " the teen was acting out in the only way she knew how" based on the girl drugging the parents but not that the dosage in the shake might have been lethal based on the effect of 1/4 of the dose. If you are against assumptions the you are against all assumptions. Sorry but you can not pick and choose.
The parents were being vindictive, that's the only explanation.
Yet another assumption. Another explanation might be they were great parents at the end of their rope with a daughter who has no boundaries. We do not know the whole story..
I went to a college fairly close (although far enough away that most students got apartments rather than live at home) to my high school to get my basic education requirements out of the way before transferring to a state college for my major. Because of that I knew a lot of people because I'd gone to high school with them (and Jr. High, and middle school, and elementary school) and so yes, I knew them and knew which ones had overly strict parents and which ones didn't. And naturally being at college I knew which ones got wasted every night and which ones didn't.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
A nice plate of Exlax brownies should solve the problem. It has the added benefit of them being afraid of asking for dessert. Just slip a few in their lunch bags so they kick in right around the time of the big Physics test.
Even a misdemeanor fucks up your future these days
Precisely. These idiots are condemning their daughter to a lifetime of poverty and misery. Unless she's very lucky, she will now find herself permanently cut off from any hope of obtaining decent employment or even going to college. They've taken her future and flushed it down the toilet because they're ignorant and naive.
You're a fool if you think even the juvenile system in this country is capable of any sort of rehabilitation
Indeed. Nothing good will come of their daughter's imprisonment and conviction. Those who've been convicted of a crime in the United States are now members of a permanent underclass. There are no more second chances and electronic records never go away and follow you everywhere for the rest of your life. After this, it will take something of a minor miracle for her to escape a future filled with poverty and misery.
Ever heard of a sealed or expunged juvenile file? As ling as it is handled in juvenile court it may disappear. There may be hoops to jump through but if this is the only mark on their record when they tirn 18 it will probably go away.
What the fuck kind of parents are you people?
Parents who hold teenagers responsible for activities that would kill. There is a line between mischief and harm and the teenagers went very far across it. Do you really believe that anyone over 13 doesn't know that overdoses can kill?
The assumption that parents/police/government know best is wrong.
Obvious troll is obvious.
A 10pm internet curfew leads to deeper problems?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a minor ( Assuming local laws in your area define = 16 as a minor. ) having a curfew of any kind of 10pm. TV off, Computer off, phone off, lights off, get to bed, in your own house.
My parents kicked my ass when I wasn't in bed by then. I turned out just fine. No criminal record, no traffic violations, have a great job, travel the world, I have never struck another person in anger, I did smoke but I quit. So am I a statistical anomaly? Should I be a raving drunk on meth because I wasn't able to watch TV and talk on the phone after 10pm ( No Internet when I was a kid )?
I'm basically calling BS on the line it "isn't productive". It's damn well is productive. Teenagers need 9-10 hours of sleep a day. Only as adults do we start to need less. If you are sleep deprived your brain does not function at full capacity. You are harming your children if you enable / encourage them to stay up late on a regular basis. This by the way is a science fact. Go ahead look it up.
Fuck yea. This is not bad behavior - this is sociopathic behavior. Anyway they will be punished as a juvenile so the consequences aren't as permanent as you are trying to make it out to be. Certainly not as permanent as allowing this sociopathic behavior to get worse.
What if the parents did nothing and a couple of years later their or their neighbor's kid does something that kills or seriously injures someone? If you found out that the parents allowed this action to go unchecked/unreported then you would be screaming about how irresponsible the parents were and how they should be held accountable for their child's actions.
The parents did good. They were being parents. Being a parent is not always trying to be your child's best friend - it's doing what is best for your child regardless how unpopular it makes you feel.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
...Except for the fact that going to prison is going to surround you with nothing but bad influences (at least in the US). What ends up happening in the US is:
A) Person is convicted for a rather minor crime
B) That person makes connections in prison with other inmates
C) When that person is released X months later, they are understandably going to have lost a lot of respect of their peers and friendships/relationships will be strained
D) With a lack of pre-prison relationships, that person connects with the people they had connections with in prison that have already been released
E) Eventually, the person gets involved in criminal activity with their new friendships
F) The criminal activity results in them being convicted again and sent back to prison and so the cycle starts over again.
It is no wonder that nearly 63% of all those who are released from prison are arrested again within 3 years in the US. ( http://www.nij.gov/topics/corrections/recidivism/welcome.htm )
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
So, immediately everyone is going to talk about how this girl is a selfish facebook-generation twat, and how this is so terrible, and how she needs to be slapped down with the law, etc. While there's a chance that this is all true, I'd like you to consider for a moment other possibilities.
I grew up with abusive and controlling parents. I have been whipped with a belt. I have had all my belongings locked up in crates in other rooms, being given back to me when I "earned it" (which never seemed to happen). I have had my toys thrown in the fireplace because I couldn't clean them up fast enough. I've had the power to the entire house cut nightly because it was curfew time. I've had my bed and my car sold out from under me because it was decided that they were taking up too much space.
It is not normal teenage behavior to drug your parents: this is an extreme action. You may choose to believe that she is extremely entitled and potentially psychopathic, but other extremes are also possible. As a general rule, it would be nice if people reserved their judgement until they had all the details.
Does it not surprise anyone else that one of their first thoughts was to drug test the milkshake?
I can not possibly imagine waking up groggy and at any point thinking 'Was I drugged?!?!?!'
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Some of these brats without kids saying curfews don't matter didn't.... now look at em! Waxing intellectual and thinking it takes effort to own a cat. Who knew it was so easy to be a parent! Pfffffft... Curfews are for uptight jerkwads! Stay up late and develop poor sleeping habits like the variety of disheveled hipsters around you!
Clue: you can't get a serious job because you show up late. Serious parents that raise winners take the hard route of actually setting rules and enforcing them to habituate good choices.
That's horrible logic. Parents are there to set the standards, provide an example and when appropriate hold children accountable. Your logic is akin to letting your 2 year old reach for the stove, because, "If they're fire proof, they wont burn. And if they burn, well, they wont do that again."
says an anonymous 12 year old ;)
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Here is the list of assumptions you are making;
1. That they will be convicted to jail. They could very easily get probation on the recommendation of the victims/parents.
2. That their record would not be expunged/sealed at 18. If this is the only mark on the record there is a good chance it will.
Teenagers these days know that parents have no power if the teenager refuses to follow orders. Maybe the parents decided to deal with the issue when they were the victims and had some input rather than wait till something happened to someone else.
As a child, sure. Not as a teen though. Curfew but not a bedtime.
Ever heard of a sealed or expunged juvenile file?
Yes, and they are a lie. There really is no such thing. It may be 'sealed' but all it takes is a judge ordering it unsealed so that they can use it in court.
Its a silly saying used to trick kids into behaving better. Not that I'm against using it, but you never have anything on your 'record' truely 'expunged' and 'sealed' means your insurance guy can't see it, nothing more.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
"I am not a doctor"
It shows.
The line between a dose that will reliably put a random person out against their will and what can shut down breathing or perhaps cause vomit aspiration is famously thin when you don't know about drug interactions, medical conditions, if they drank a couple beers on the way home, etc. etc.
Well, it does depend on the drug. Ketamine for instance will knock people out (welcome to the K-hole!) but the risk of overdosing is minimal since it actually increases blood pressure and doesn't depress breathing. For that reason it's a preferred anesthetic for less than ideal situations (battlefield, triage center, disaster areas) because it is damn hard to accidentally kill someone with it, but damn easy to knock them out reliably.
slipping drugs of any form into your parents body is far from a dumb stunt.
A dumb stunt would be someting like giving your parent a gag glass with a bottom that slips off or something. NOT something body-altering.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
There is a very good chance that the parent would be the one charged with manslaughter. The prosecution would probably make a case stating that the parent should have realized (s)he was impaired when (s)he was driving the vehicle. There are cases where drivers were convicted for DUI when they wrecked while under a "sleep side effect" of Ambien.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
There are plenty of Over the Counter drugs you could take that would knock you out fairly quickly with 1/4 the dose and have no noticeably different effect with 4 times the dose.
Benadryl comes to mind as a drug thats safe to use to knock many things out without harm even with wildly different dosages. Pretty much any antihistamine for that matter.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
YHBTYHLHAND.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Here here!
YOU. DON'T. DRUG. PEOPLE.
These tards talking like it was a prank either don't have kids, or shouldn't.
Responsible parents make sure that their kids learn basic decency, like never ever drugging people. This is not a "good scotsman" fallacy, it is blunt reality. Letting this slip would be a major failure at parenting.
If someone DRUGGED YOU would you think having them arrested was excessive? I mean, what are they going to do, punish her by restricting her Internet access? They'd be lucky to wake up at all.
I wouldn't even be surprised if it wasn't the parents, but the police that insisted on the arrest. A crime is a crime, and doesn't require the victim to be cooperative if there is enough evidence...
Yeah, brilliant logic. And given the brain trust duo of these girls who actually DRUGGED their parents I'm sure they were model students not in need of any more discipline or lessons than "wow, I'm tired now".
Yes, you should say you shouldn't do it but do you think that a teenager knows that if you don't get enough sleep you wake up tired? And don't you think that a teenager knows that if you're tired you won't be as focused? A two year old is completely different than a teenager.
What ends up happening in so many households is that when kids don't have natural consequences for their actions they start viewing the parent as the problem. The action is viewed as consequence-free when the parent is removed. This leads to rebellion when the parent is removed (such as college) and destructive habits reign supreme because in the absence of someone saying that you can't do that, in their mind such an action is free of consequences.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Exactly. And THAT should be the punishment. If someone can stay up until 5 AM playing WoW and still end up doing well in school, what's the problem? If they're tired in the morning and end up having a horrible day because of it, chances are they're going to go to bed earlier so they don't get tired.
Been watching 60's sitcoms where kids learn from their mistakes have you? "Awww geee... I'm really cranky today, Ma and Pa were right when they said that would happen. i'd better go to bed early tonight like the good little child I am."
Left to their own devices, teenagers will often only make decisions that are in their best interests in the very short term. "I was really cranky all today because I stayed up late last night and it's 10pm now so I should go to bed but i've just got my second wind and feel great now so I won't".
That's what parents are for. I've had a bunch of people tell me their fantastical ideas about parenting... not saying "no" to their child, letting them do whatever they want and learning from their mistakes, etc, but for the most part it seems to be an excuse to never actually do any real parenting.
I don't think parents or government should have the authority or control they do. It's not right. It's not justified. It just is. The assumption that parents/police/government know best is wrong.
Shouldn't you be in bed right now? Your parents WILL find out you broke curfew, you know.
They fell asleep and were groggy the next day from 1/4 of the milkshake. Suppose they'd drunk the whole thing.
I am not a doctor, but all medications come in varying dosages. We don't exactly know the whole story here, so stop making assumptions.
If I were the parents, I wouldn't have had my own children arrested, or put them in a position to be arrested. I would have handled the situation privately and discretely, disciplining as necessary. Even a misdemeanor fucks up your future these days, I had parents that understood this when I did dumb things growing up. You're a fool if you think even the juvenile system in this country is capable of any sort of rehabilitation, and certainly is capable of much less than that available from a couple of loving parents.
The parents were being vindictive, that's the only explanation. Or they're downright retarded and should be arrested for child endangerment.
My bet here is that something was seriously wrong in this household, and the teen was acting out in the only way she knew how.
If your child drugged you with a dose high enough to kill you (which may be the case here if they'd drunk the whole thing) then you have lost control of the situation, and should (as the parents in question have) be looking for external help. I suspect the kids won't be locked away (for all the reasons you point out) but hopefully will receive a defining lesson in right and wrong.
I am not a doctor, but all medications come in varying dosages. We don't exactly know the whole story here, so stop making assumptions.
This assumption goes both ways. If you intentionally drug someone, you have to assume it could be dangerous. And guess what, it usually is - there are very few prescription drugs where an overdose doesn't have some serious side effects. And sleep medications are usually not intended to knock you on your ass, but to aid sleep. If they woke up with a nasty hangover it's OBVIOUSLY more than the standard dose already.
And you clearly don't have kids, let alone teens with serious behavioral problems. What are they supposed to do, laugh it off? Or punish her by cutting off her Internet access? Yeah, that would be a great idea. Better make her taste all your food first.
Actually I would have my lawyer discuss with the DA a deal that involves involuntary commitment with reasonable terms to a mental health facility in lieu of conviction and formal sentencing. This way my child has no choice but to seek professional help and the parents of my child's friend will have no choice but to do the same.
If my child acted alone, I would most likely not press charges and just seek professional help. However if I was in the same situation as these parents, I probably would turn my child over to the authorities. Not because I think I need the state to get involved with my parenting, but because chances are pretty damn good that the friend put my child (in the story the friend provided the sleeping pills) up to this and I need the state to force the friend's parent to seek help. Besides the DA would probably take the plea deal in exchange for testimony against the child that provided the prescription drugs.
Regardless of the uncomfortable situation the parents found themselves in, ignoring the problem and hoping the behavior improves doesn't seem a viable option.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
You disgust me.
From the most not busy intersection in the world. The news is painful sometimes.
let me take the devil's advocate, on this.
what do you need to be a parent? do you pass any qualifcations? prove your ability? stability? history of 'issues' that might be against raising a child?
NOTHING.
you knock a girl up and get her pregnant and soon you are both parents.
being a parent means nothing, in terms of judgement. in fact, seeing some parents, I find that it shows a *lack* of judgement (more often than not, sad to say).
I don't respect being a parent. being a GOOD parent is something to be proud of, but simply BEING a parent, on its own, means nothing. you could be just as likely to be horrible as good. its a wash.
that said, I see my share of bad kids, too.
(I think its all about that purple dinosaur, but I could be wrong.)
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Disheveled hipsters making six figures, who can't show up on time, run silicon valley. ;-)
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
And, seriously, they just put their kid behind bars. I bet they think that'll teach 'em.
I bet it would. Kids do something excessive, they deserve an excessive lesson in return. It's one thing to lie, whine, or manipulate. It's another entirely to poison/drug - especially for so stupid a reason.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
They double the dose? Buy something stronger from a 'friend'? Allergic reaction?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Sure, but would you want to throw your kid into juvenile justice just because of some dumb stunt?
If you insist, go ahead and try attempting to murder me and I'll skip the whole justice thing you don't seem to want and simply defend my life with an equal measure of force to assure your attempted murder fails. If you happen to bleed out from your wounds while we aren't waiting on the police and paramedics to arrive that you don't want involved, then so be it.
Therapy would likely be a good idea as well. If a kid is willing to poison (drugging, poisoning... same thing) there is something seriously wrong.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
... and how, pray tell, does that ruin anyone's lives? I'm almost 30 now and I've not even been arrested, let alone been in a court.
As well it shouldn't be ignored. The fuckers poisoned the parents. It's one thing to hide it from people who don't really need to know, it's another to make it go away entirely.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
So what are you actually saying? You would rather see your child shot to death in an act of self defense against attempted murder?
You honestly would prefer a child to be killed to prevent them from murdering, instead of simply in prison to prevent them from murdering? You would prefer to see two people dead, the murderer and victim, instead of just the one murderer? You prefer to see a murderer free to roam with civilized people after they are caught red handed attempting to kill someone?
Just to summarize your position:
- You want murderers roaming free, despite their success
- You would rather see a child killed to prevent a murder when said killing isn't the only option
- You want to see the victim dead as well as the criminal who is trying to murder them
- You are fine and dandy with your children being murderers
Given the above facts, why on earth should any of us care about your opinion at all?
It's people like you who need locked up to assure you don't try raising murderers
If I were the parents, I wouldn't have had my own children arrested, or put them in a position to be arrested. I would have handled the situation privately and discretely, disciplining as necessary.
May not have a choice. If they were feeling bad enough to get checked out by a medical professional (and I must say, I'd probably get checked out if I found out I'd been drugged!), and that professional reported the situation to the police (which is mandatory in many jurisdictions for cases of this nature) then the police may have pressed charges regardless of the parent's wishes. In many cases of domestic violence (which this is included in) the victim does not have any say in whether charges are laid. This is because far too many victims are reluctant to press charges against a loved one, even in cases of ongoing abuse. The fact that this case is about a kid poisoning a parent doesn't make it any different than a case of a husband beating a wife, or vice-versa, it still qualifies as domestic violence. The police get involved as soon as anyone finds out, and from that point onward the decision on whether to press charges is out of the parent's hands.
If my kid drugged me? You bet your ass they would be. It's not just a dumb stunt. They could have done some serious damage.
If someone can stay up until 5 AM playing WoW and still end up doing well in school, what's the problem?
The problem is threefold: (1) It is not healthy to stay up so long playing WoW; it is not a normal activity, and the only benefit is entertainment with significant negatives -- it is a nasty habit to get into, that can have serious consequences over time, due to sleep deprivation, and potential psychological issues due to emerging addictive/obsessive game playing behavior. As a parent, I would want the best for my kid; therefore, behaviors that are likely to result in unhealthy habits are intolerable. It would be just as unacceptable as it would be for them to stay out that late drinking or partying.
Staying up late that night on rare occasion might be OK, but not to continue a game to the 9th hour or longer.
(2) The child would seem to be playing one game for an excessively long period - if staying up until 5 AM -- this has negative social ramifications. Diversity of activities are important. Watching TV, playing computer games, or surfing the web, for more than a few hours a day: unacceptable. For the teenage to learn to survive and mature, it is important, that they be exposed to a more diverse experience, which means productive or intellectual activities besides playing WoW are not optional.
(3) Playing WoW is not productive. If the child has that much free time available that they are willing to be awake so long, then the greatest percentage of it must be used in a productive pursuit -- either pursuing educational activities, such as reading books, and specifically nonfiction, OR pursuing a productive activity that improves skills/abilities, or earns money.
The chance that they are BOTH productive and play WoW that long are basically negligible, so it is a safe thing to say, if they play WoW that long, it is reasonable to disallow them use of the computer.
(4) Parent provides the internet connection. This is a shared resource, and they need to learn to share, which means not utilizing it 24x7. It is reasonable for the parent to say "You must always stop using it at 10 and go to bed"
[* Time after 10pm is Parents' porn-watching leisure time]
As a child, sure. Not as a teen though. Curfew but not a bedtime.
My parents were FAR from controlling, yet the whole way through highschool my sister and I were told many times how late we could stay up.
Generally, you need at least a dozen years on the kid. In the past, 18-22 years was common, but now it ranges generally from about 14 or 15 years for the first, all the way to 30+. Right there, the parent has been through vastly more than the kid, no matter what age the kid is.
Now, you're technically right that not all parents are good parents. But the other popular assumption I see is that the government knows better than parents (usually with an implied "as long as the government does what I want them to do"), which I think is true sometimes, but far more rarely than the assumption that parents know best.
You are an idiot.
You're basing your opinion on your experience of being a teen, not being a parent. You'd do better to listen to those people here who have experience of being a parent (as well as a teen). They know better than you.
Otherwise, you're just acting like a teen yourself. Thinking you know everything.
There are plenty of Over the Counter drugs you could take that would knock you out fairly quickly with 1/4 the dose and have no noticeably different effect with 4 times the dose.
Benadryl comes to mind as a drug thats safe to use to knock many things out without harm even with wildly different dosages. Pretty much any antihistamine for that matter.
Except at higher doses benadryl becomes a anticholinergic DELERIANT with true hallucinations, none of that wall breathing stuff, more like giant spiders crawling around. It still isn't too toxic at 400mg or so.
Exactly. And THAT should be the punishment. If someone can stay up until 5 AM playing WoW and still end up doing well in school, what's the problem? If they're tired in the morning and end up having a horrible day because of it, chances are they're going to go to bed earlier so they don't get tired.
I'll make a wild guess that you don't have many teenagers at home, except maybe yourself. Rational thinking isn't of much use with teenagers, almost by definition.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
| Except for the fact that you don't have your kid arrested... basically to ensure that your kids have no future.
Get real -- these kids won't get a criminal record or wind up in the pen.
They will hopefully get a bit of a scare when they see such behavior is deemed
both wrong and very serious.
Say what you want about the courts, but most judges have a lot of common sense along
with a desire and ability to guide youth toward a "good" path.
If things got crazy in court (hard to imagine, but there are always exceptions)
the parents could simply drop the charges.
"I am not a doctor"
It shows.
The line between a dose that will reliably put a random person out against their will and what can shut down breathing or perhaps cause vomit aspiration is famously thin when you don't know about drug interactions, medical conditions, if they drank a couple beers on the way home, etc. etc.
If they'd drank the whole thing, maybe they'd have been alright, but then again maybe not.
But without drug interactions a benzodiazepine would be very safe. Without a secondary depressant it's almost impossible to overdose on them.
Hell yeah, throw the kid in jail. Who gives a shit if his life is ruined? He needs to learn a lesson.
I should probably add, that giving them ANYTHING is still monstrously unethical.
1. That they will be convicted to jail. They could very easily get probation on the recommendation of the victims/parents.
People convicted of a crime don't go to a jail, they go to a prison. They're already being held in a jail, and as teenagers, they are probably going to be held in jail throughout the proceedings unless someone posts bond on their behalf... the question will be if they get convicted and get sent to a prison, or if the outcome is that they are released, or get sentenced to a lesser penalty such as community service or mandatory counselling.
What if one of them decided to drive to the corner store?
The parents would be legally at fault in that case, as they should. What if they really were only just groggy? They're just as impaired as if they were drugged and shouldn't be behind the wheel. The fact we regularly let such people off and tell them to get some sleep is a disgrace.
home drug tests only test urine not milkshakes
There's no difference in accountability between the 2 yr old and 14 year old. Consistency is important. You don't be super strict at 2 and then ratchet down at 14, likewise, you don't be loose at 2 and then get strict at 14. Does your conversation change? Yes. The child's emotional maturity changes. You can't use logic on a 2 year old but you can tell them at 14 that there are obvious consequences.
I had a curfew my entire childhood and had no issues going into college. The curfew was reasonable for my age (eg with a car at 17, it was midnight. As a 12 year old riding a bike, it was 10) and the same went for television. I don't know. Maybe it's how you treat them that is the difference but my 10 year old doesn't have to wake up tired to know better. We tell him the Wii goes off at 8 on school nights did 10pm weekends and there are no arguments because we explained it, we are consistent and he knows the right thing is to respect your parents because we have his best interests in mind.. We also do what my parents did which is on exceptions allow, as a reward for something such as the straight As, the lengthening of Wii. However, the first B and the exceptions go away (which I let the B in writing slide, so one could argue I'm ont 100% consistent) but he is a good kid who works hard. Maybe I'm lucky by today's standards and his 4 yr old sister is proving to be equally as good at doing the right thing (respecting parents, etc). And yes, we do have the occasional issues, but nothing I didn't do as a kid.
Their life is not ruined by any stretch of the imagination. Take your hyperbole somewhere else.
... they didn't think to discard the remaining liquids and wash the glasses after the parents fell asleep?
Don't they learn anything in school, watching CSI or surfing the Internet?
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I'm betting these kids were dosed with behavior mod drugs (Adderall, SSRIs, etc.) as soon as they could walk. Chemically disabling an annoyance/impediment was probably a family tradition.
At least they didn't go all Menendez Brothers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menendez_brothers) with shotguns and stuff.
Sent from the iPad I found in your car.
Where where?
Oh, I guess you meant, "Hear, hear!"...?
Your employer, credit bureau, and many other organizations can't see it or even know it exists. There has to be a reason for someone to look for and ask a judge for a sealed record to be unsealed. Using a juvenile record in court means that the person has been accused of another crime. It does not happen when applying for a job and therefore does not effect one's career so the GP's statement about the teenager being permanently condemned is false. So the only thing a juvenile record "condemns" someone to is not be charged with another crime or it may come back to haunt them(as it should).
I think everyone would rather have their kids at home playing video games all night than out fucking that Jimmy kid in the back seat of his car in a park.
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
If I were the parents, I'd wait until they were convicted, then discuss sentencing options and see about making sure the harm is minimized.
I'm not so sure best parenting practices were followed here by inviting the judicial system into the mix to dole out punishment. A family psychologist might have been the better choice. As a parent, there would have to be some extremely bad shit going down to turn my own children in. This story isn't what I'd call "extremely bad shit," and the parents should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to handle this situation the right way.
TFA doesn't mention the age of the teens involved so it's hard to say whether a 10pm curfew is reasonable.
If they are young then it might be okay, but if they were high school senior age then it wasn't. Midnight would be more reasonable for that age.
You could also argue that a curfew is entirely unreasonable but that's a different story.
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
Exactly!
That's why - from tonight I am removing the gate to my pool - allowing my 4 and 6 years old to go swimming whenever they want without any floatation device or asking for supervision. I shouldn't control or curb my child's impulses.
Captcha: unguided.
I guess you haven't read this document. Here is a quote from it:
Instead of being sentenced to state prison, many defendants will be serving their "prison" term in county jail.
The juveniles are also not in County Jail but Placer County Juvenile Hall along with other juveniles. That looks like a very scary place. We have no information whether or not they have been released to or bailed out by their parents. Lets wait till things pan out before condemning the parents over what might or might not happen.
Maybe this will be a wake up call for a couple pf entitled teens and may even turn their lives around.
The parents would have to "press charges". This is their discretion under the law. This is not a case where the law is cut and dry as to whether a crime was committed or not.
Let me get this straight - two fully-adult human beings with teenage children are sitting down of an evening to drink milkshakes? That's the real wtf right there.
I think back to when I was in college, those with very strict and controlling parents usually ended up being the kids who drank heavily and skipped class and ended up having strained relations with their family. On the other hand, those with parents who were more rational and let their kids realize that staying up until 4 AM on the phone on weeknights lead to a miserable school day the next day rather than imposing a "phone curfew" ended up being more responsible.
Logic isn't your forte hmmm? What do you think might have cause those parents to be very strict and controlling? Maybe the out of line behavior of their child? Those very children drinking heavily and skipping classes might have caused their parents to be "more rational" ?
Correlation does not imply causation. All heavy smokers have yellow fingers. Yet, it's not those yellow fingers that caused them to be smokers in the first place. I know, troubling...
Write boring code, not shiny code!
Who is betting the kids were doing poorly in school due to late night gab sessions on the internet and the restriction was a justifies response to the situation? Yeah, we don't know the details so why assume the parents were control freaks. Nothing justifies drugging and possibly killing another person so one can have internet access late at night.
Putting their kids behind bars might just teach them that their actions have consequences. We also don't know how long they were behind bars (if you can call a juvenile facility "behind bars"). They may have been out the next day after being arraigned.
The reaction may seem excessive to you but not to me. The juveniles put the parents' lives at risk. A day or two in juvenile detention pales before that.
I would consider pressing charges long enough for them to serve a day in detention and then dropping charges.
The "miserable school day" is no consequence to most teenagers. They generally don't care. They will just sleep through class anyway or skip it all together. Many teenagers see no further than the next date or party and generally don't care whether or not they pass.
I agree that there are some parents who are control freaks. They dictate everything in their children's lives and the children rebel. There are also parents who set no boundaries for their children and the children act up just to be noticed. Both extremes have the same consequences; children that act out. There is a balance between those extremes where a child has both freedoms and constraints. Most teenagers do not yet have the mental capacity to understand the consequences of failing school. That is what parents are for. I think requiring a juvenile to not contact friends after bedtime so they get a good night sleep and have the capacity to learn in school is reasonable.
I would have handled the situation privately and discretely, disciplining as necessary. Even a misdemeanor fucks up your future these days, I had parents that understood this when I did dumb things growing up. You're a fool if you think even the juvenile system in this country is capable of any sort of rehabilitation, and certainly is capable of much less than that available from a couple of loving parents
Did you consider the parents might be scared for their fucking lives? Their kid drugged them just to get on the INTERNET after 10pm. What else might the kids do when they don't get their way. People die all the time from being drugged,mostly date rape stuff but you can be sure if they had got away with it they would have been doing it every other day.
Won't someone think of the children!... Oh, wait.
The problem is we don't know the whole story. It might very well be, that the parents didn't even choose to press charges against their kids. A doctor might have reported the incident, they pressed charges on the one who provided the drugs and it got bigger than intended etc.
Let us not forget that a very serious crime has been committed. The kids probably didn't know and didn't intend it, but they might have easily killed one of the parents.
Once the police gains knowledge they have the duty to investigate and it is now not the parents choice anymore.
Sorry but I doubt very much that the friend's parent was prescribed Ketamine for sleep. It was probably a sedative like Ambien. Please note the following warning;
What happens if I overdose?
Seek emergency medical attention or call the Poison Help line at 1-800-222-1222. An overdose of Ambien can be fatal when it is taken together with other medications that can cause drowsiness.
Overdose symptoms may include sleepiness, confusion, shallow breathing, feeling light-headed, fainting, or coma.
Ketamine itself isn't even safe as shown in this use positive site. Here are a couple of quotes;
Ketamine users attempting to move around are likely to fall down, bump into things or find themselves in a body of water without the ability to swim. Talking, moving or even going to the bathroom can be extremely difficult. It’s very important to be in a safe environment. For inexperienced users, a clear-headed sitter is absolutely essential.
Environmental Hazards
At high doses, ketamine can be physically incapacitating, even paralyzing. Users must be sure to extinguish all cigarettes, candles and any other flame that could be knocked over. Over the years, several deaths have been attributed to ketamine. In virtually every case, the actual cause of death was some physical accident. A woman passed out and froze to death in her own side yard. Several users have drown, some even in their own bathtubs. It’s very easy for a user under the influence to trip and fall, potentially causing themselves great bodily harm. Given these examples it is hopefully apparent that a clear-headed sitter is virtually essential for even experienced ketamine users.
I would not call a couple of teens in their room playing on the internet to be " clear-headed sitter[s]".
The fact that a certain drug itself would not kill them does not preclude the fact that the juveniles did not know what other medication the parents were taking or if they were going to drink alcohol or drive a vehicle. The juveniles took their parents' lives in their hands when they administered a prescription sleeping medication.
But to take it to court is basically to ensure that your kids have no future.
What kind of future someone who thinks that drugging people to get their way (in whatever; but in this case, in something rather minor, which in my view is an aggravating circumstance) is all right will have? Imagine the future of people who might end up dealing with someone like that.
One of the major restraints against crime is the risk of getting caught and penalized.
Literally all data collected on this topic shows that this is wrong. How did you come up with this idea?
Aren't you just the most compassionate flower!
If my kid drugged me? You bet your ass they would be. It's not just a dumb stunt. They could have done some serious damage.
Don't send your kids to jail to sort out your problems. Bad things happen to your kids---like murder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Liam_Ashley
I don't have kids thank god, but if I did and one of them did this to me I'd put them up for adoption the next day, no shit.
They fell asleep and were groggy the next day from 1/4 of the milkshake. Suppose they'd drunk the whole thing. They might be dead by now.
I would not have hesitated to kill my parents in such a way if I had thought about it as child. My parents are lucky to be alive today. I am a bad person who was treated very badly.
I would not kill them now as I do not have to suffer under them any more... but they lay on their deathbeds from old age now and I do not move a finger to help them. You reap what you sow. It does not make me smile though. I wait for my own death so this chapter in history can be wiped forever from the books. My own children have no idea... and they never will.
I do not side with the kids on this one either, but I can easily see how it can happen. The entire family is better off dead than subjecting the rest of society to their fucked up control and rebellion issues.
Hate. It is what is for breakfast.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
Maybe the kid had shown repeatedly she would stay up until all hours of the morning chatting with people rather than doing homework or sleeping, causing her grades to slip. Setting a limit on how late you stay up browsing the internet or talking on the phone is a perfectly reasonable thing for a parent to do in that situation, and that's probably what caused it.
:)
Who knows if the parents were being reasonable or not? Certainly not any of us. But anyone who's ever shared a roof with a teenage girl is probably inclined to giv the benefit of the doubt to the parents
The child hates the parents. There is no recovering from this situation. No amount of professional counseling will help. They need to be separated forever and hope that the children can act responsible enough in their new life to keep from fucking things up continuously. Only the deaths of everyone involved will solve this dilemma and since this is a "civilized" society, time will have to take care of the death portion.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
The parents were very bad parents. My kids would have _never_ thought about drugging me. While the kids were very very wrong, the parents brought it on themselves.... no less than a woman in short skirt walking in a dark alley where a group of shady looking men are standing has brought it on herself. Yes, that group of men were wrong for raping her. Totally and completely wrong. The story is still the same though.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
A few comments on what I have read so far.
Failed parents decide to blight further the life of their child and friend (who they have already failed to raise properly) by giving them a criminal record.
News at 11.
I don't care as long as the kid has a good time. Actually, fucking someone all night is educationally definitely better than playing WOW all night.
Teens Drug Parents To Get Web Access
Headline writing rule #13: try to avoid words which could be nouns or verbs. I read this as (despite the missing apostrophe) "Teen's [drug-parents] to get web access" and thought that some kid's smacked-up mom and dad had finally got broadband. "To get web access" could also be made a bit clearer very easily.
Parents drugged by teens to avoid web access curfew
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
False dilemma.
> Maybe the parents decided to deal with the issue when they were the victims and had some input rather than wait till something happened to someone else.
You are aware that the relationship between the parents and their kid is finished at this point. That might have been the whole rest of their relationship spent in one single day. Maybe if they kept a link with their kid they might have had a better influence. When they involved police in their family, they ceased to be a family.
> Being a parent is not always trying to be your child's best friend - it's doing what is best for your child regardless how unpopular it makes you feel.
Being a parent means to think long term about your child's well being and happiness. Sometimes this produces conflicts with their short term needs.
But turning your kid to the police and putting him in jail is not in the sort, nor in the long term interest of the child. It probably is in the interest of the society, so, kudos to these guys who put their own son up as sacrifice for the betterment of common good. But they are lousy parents if their kid got to this point in life.
really if it was benzos there was little risk of OD, however if they used something else.................
Huh? Discipline for a teen leads to "deeper problems"? Leads to a teenager resenting their parents? Shutting off the computer & going to bed so a teen can actually get up in the morning & go to school is somehow a bad thing? Modded Insightful????
From someone who raised several teens, & raising one right now, I couldn't disagree more.
SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT
Network Neutrality! See, this legislation is needed or the oppressed will revolt!
No wonder their kids do stupid things, the parents are plain stupid themselves.
There's something to be said for a welfare bonus for sterilisation
I frequently pull all nighters to play video games. There is nothing wrong with that.
This is just entertainment. I don't see how it is worse than spending the night reading books.
No dice, it's up to the DA now.
.: Semper Absurda
Not to mention the very real risk to their earnings potential.
.: Semper Absurda
Paying for things is no excuse to disregard children and make them miserable.
And? If my kid done that, they'd be dead to me the instant I found out.
Out of the house on to the street, they can do whatever the hell they want.
I already agreed to the ejection of a scrubby little bitch of a cousin from the house once before for stealing stuff from the family, including lots of money, as well as stealing letters FROM HER JOB. A LAWYER FIRM.
She is going to get wrecked so hard.
Oh, and she is a little junky twat as well now.
Did we ruin her potential future? Did we fuck, she was a criminal to the core. And she will be punished for it soon.
Face facts, this kid done wrong and they deserve punishment.
They aren't going to have their damn life ruined by going to juvi. God damn.
Even my scrubby cousin has a life despite the bullshit she pulled and how she got thrown out with absolutely nothing.
Pretty sure these idiots will have a life after they get out.
Most teenagers understand the consequences in an academic sense, but most have not yet developed the self control to handle the consequences of their actions. This is why in the eyes of the law, you are not viewed as fully accountable for your actions until you are 18. It is also why parents must provide the structure and discipline for their teens - even if they fight it. They will not provide it for themselves and end up being those people that have no jobs, leech off others and do nothing but watch reality tv all day.
Disheveled hipsters making six figures, who can't show up on time, run silicon valley. ;-)
Pardon? The people that run Silicon Valley had/have at least talent, and that talent wasn't/isn't "staying up as late as they wanted with as much internet as they wanted". Otherwise 10% of my students is going to run Silicon Valley.
Oh look, no emoticon.
Posted AC because someone up higher deserves my mod points.
Jerry Smith
Exactly. And THAT should be the punishment. If someone can stay up until 5 AM playing WoW and still end up doing well in school, what's the problem? If they're tired in the morning and end up having a horrible day because of it, chances are they're going to go to bed earlier so they don't get tired.
IF they keep doing well AND IF the children care how they are doing in school.
Sleep medication will kill you as easily as cyanide when overdosed. These kids had no idea what the safe dosage was; it takes medical training. They should consider themselves lucky they're not being charged with manslaughter right now.
If your kid deliberately poisons you, then something is wrong with your family indeed. You might blame the parents for raising them like that (though that's a dubious argument), but you absolutely cannot blame them for letting the police handle a situation where a crime, and a potentially dangerous one, has been committed. Fuck their careers - the next time it could have been someone else's life on the line.
You have a point, generally, but depending on your living situation there can be very valid reasons for such a curfew.
The simplest one would be that the parents need sleep. Let's say Dad is a construction worker who has to be on a job site that's an hour away by 7 AM. That means he's probably going to get up around 5 to get ready. Setting a housewide 10pm bedtime is one way to make sure he can actually perform his best at the job that keeps the money flowing in. Most people can't afford homes large enough for it to be impossible to hear someone moving around.
Second, teens are not exactly known for massive self-control. Yes, some kids who stay up until 4 AM will pay for it by being exhausted all school day and going to bed early the next night, but many will just sleep in class, then stay up until 4 AM the next night.
anon b/c modded, Demonlapin
Serious parents that raise winners take the hard route of actually setting rules and enforcing them to habituate good choices.
Being good at obeying rules set by others != being good at setting rules for yourself and obeying them. While obeying your parents is a good choice, it is an extremely simple one, and doesn't prepare you for the complex choices you need to make when you don't have your parents to make rules for you. Also, having tight external control means you don't need to develop internal control. Then, when the external control goes away, you're left with practically no control. Speaking from personal experience here. The control I have now is a result of the mistakes I've made.
In my days, I hacked the home router to get around the net curfew.
If someone can stay up until 5 AM playing WoW and still end up doing well in school, what's the problem?
self-delusion.
You can do this once or twice, especially if you are young. If you think you can do it regularily, then you are deluding yourself. Sleep-deprivation is a well-researched environmental condition and its detrimental physical and mental effects are undisputed.
However, humans are excellent at convincing themselves of any bullshit they want to believe in. Smoking isn't bad for your health, having fun is a sin, drinking every night is just a social activity, your problems are not your fault, whatever.
Someone with an addiction will rationalize it away and explain all resulting problems with other causes. He's not doing bad in school because of lack of sleep, but because the teachers are bad and the other kids are mean to him. He's not lost his marriage because of his drinking problem, but because his wife was unfaithful. He doesn't enjoy torturing people, it's just that sinners need to be punished. Whatever.
You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts.
Sleep deprivation and its effects are well-documented facts, no matter how much you wish that you can party all night, or play WoW or do whatever and shake it off. You can't. We know this, and wishful thinking doesn't change it.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Could you cite that position?
I remember reading about the mass looting that occurred in New York during that black out a few years ago. The police weren't around, so crime spiked because there were no consequences.
Learn something new.
If it was my child, I'd be inclined to stopper them down pretty fucking hard - 7 pm curfew, 9-10pm bedtime, no cell phone, no iPod - for a month. Tell them that's a walk in the park compared to a night in jail, which is where they should be. And tell them the next time they do this, you'll call the cops.
But don't ever, ever, ever throw your child into the "justice" system for a first offense. Once you do that, you are no longer in control of their life. Tried as adult? Not your call anymore. Felony crime, perhaps? Not your call.
I can confirm this from first-hand experience. When I was younger I OD'ed on diphenhydramine and called the cops because I was convinced there were people in my apartment that came in by phase-shifting between the walls.
The cops came out, searched my apartment and didn't find anyone or anything missing so they just told me to get some sleep and left. After they left the hallucinations came back and told me they had been hiding in the closet the whole time, so I called the cops again and they ended up calling an ambulance and I was hospitalized and had my stomach pumped.
I've taken a lot of psychedelics in my life, but never had hallucinations like this. It was one of the scariest things I've ever experienced.
TL;DR: don't fuck around with diphenhydramine
> (3) [Doing X] is not productive ... [time] must be used in a productive pursuit -- either pursuing educational activities, such as reading books, and specifically nonfiction, OR pursuing a productive activity that improves skills/abilities, or earns money.
Wow, glad you're saving the world 24 hours a day! The rest of us try to relax when we can.
Wohoo! Guess who'll be watching One Direction to six in the morning tonight!?
Defining Statistics and Social Research
I'm betting these kids were dosed with behavior mod drugs (Adderall, SSRIs, etc.) as soon as they could walk. Chemically disabling an annoyance/impediment was probably a family tradition.
At least they didn't go all Menendez Brothers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menendez_brothers) with shotguns and stuff.
"I'm betting"
"probably"
Thank heavens you're not of any importance to anyone or anything! You're too stupid to be with responsibility.
How is that reasonable? What if they're not tired? Actually, did you just make up your own definition of the word "reasonable" and state it as a fact? That's something I'd expect from one of those "because I said so" control freak parents.
Or their school work suffers because they're sleepy in the morning.
What, you mean the useless busy work that public schools assign students? The same public schools that care more about rote memorization and teaching to the test far more than they care about learning? I can't imagine why anyone would care about those. I pulled my child out of those awful establishments and he's receiving a much better education than any product of the public school system is.
but most have not yet developed the self control to handle the consequences of their actions.
That reminds me of people in my workplace. Actually, it reminds me of most people in general. If that's true, I can see where teenagers get it from.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
I frequently pull all nighters to play video games. There is nothing wrong with that.
This is just entertainment. I don't see how it is worse than spending the night reading books.
A book gets finished and you sleep properly the next night. WoW doesn't.
Control freaks for turning off the internet at 10PM? Boy, aren't you a spoiled brat. I am sure a lot of people here had a lot worse during their childhood/teenage years. I know my TV had to be off by 9PM. My bedroom light off by 10PM. You think the parents could have gone about this better by setting up the router to restrict access after 10PM. The kids still wouldn't have been able to get on the internet after 10PM.
Wow, excellent job attacking someone's personal situation rather than their actual argument.
Sorry, but you'll agree with me when you're older. I know better than you. As a parent. And I don't even agree with him.
We were too poor to even have a "bedtime" when i was growing up.
All they had to do was set a schedule in the router. Guess they were too lazy to read the manual...
No, the part of the troll post you quoted is actually somewhat true. As a parent, I can say with certainty that parents do not always know best. The most effective way of angering a teenager (at least mine) is acting like a teenager and pretending as if you know everything.
That said, I find nothing wrong with telling them that they should go to bed at a certain time.
Did you consider the parents might be scared for their fucking lives? Their kid drugged them just to get on the INTERNET after 10pm. What else might the kids do when they don't get their way. People die all the time from being drugged,mostly date rape stuff but you can be sure if they had got away with it they would have been doing it every other day.
Agreed. All those making light of the situation need to think two words "Mendez Brothers". If my child did something like that to me, they obvious have no regard for my life, what is right (moral ambiguity), and a sense of entitlement that goes way beyond simple punishment. The parents are indeed in danger in this situation.
This was a juvenile offense and if the first offense, will most likely be sealed.
I let my kids know that the number of rules they have will be inversely proportional to how they handle their responsibilities. If they are doing the things they need to do, and getting good grades without a lot of hand holding they will have very few rules and a lot of freedom. If their grades slip and they don't take care of their responsibilities they will be going to school in a uniform and in bed by 8 with no electronics.
Putting them in control of the rules that they live by has worked out pretty well so far. If I'm lucky it will until the move out.....
Is google broken? Here's an example: In other words, in terms of country rankings, high incarceration rates tend to be associated with low levels of safety and "Quality of Life". Mob dynamics change the social contract. Your New York example only suggests correlation if you fail to control for this change.
They can't - child labor laws.
... I probably would turn my child over to the authorities. Not because I think I need the state to get involved with my parenting, but because chances are pretty damn good that the friend put my child (in the story the friend provided the sleeping pills) up to this and I need the state to force the friend's parent to seek help. Besides the DA would probably take the plea deal in exchange for testimony against the child that provided the prescription drugs.
Let's not discount the possibility that the daughter had the idea herself and talked the friend into supplying the meds.
Even so, making certain that *both* kids get professional help is absolutely the right thing to do.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
It is also used in less than ideal situation because it helps keep the blood pressure up. If you use it on people who already have problems with high blood pressure breathing might be a secondary concern.
I frequently pull all nighters to play video games. There is nothing wrong with that.
This is just entertainment. I don't see how it is worse than spending the night reading books.
Staying up all night reading books isn't a good idea either if you have school or work the next day.
I'd really like to know how you can possibly know this. Unless you're telepathic and/or the kid's psychiatrist, I'd say that you're projecting in a major way and maybe you should get some counselling yourself.
I think it's more likely that someone who's not quite yet an adult acted in a childish, "if this were the movies, I'd just ..." fashion and did not think clearly about the ethics or possible consequences of her actions. This would not be the first time in history that a teenager acted rashly without thinking things through, and it would not be the last;
Furthermore, patricidal hatred is neither a requirement for nor a certain by-product of being 16 and being pissed off at the Mum and Dad because they won't extend my curfew or because they grounded me after I got caught smoking at school.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
(3) Playing WoW is not productive.
Chatting and talking with people does improve their English skills if they don't speak English natively. At least that's what I see when my 12 year old son has full score on every English test he has done so far, something no other kid manage to get in his class.
When I've asked him if any of his friends in school play MMORPG or otherwise browse the internet he says most just play Xbox and that they only have one shared computer among the family, so they don't get to use it as much as they would like to.
I frequently pull all nighters to play video games. There is nothing wrong with that.
This is just entertainment. I don't see how it is worse than spending the night reading books.
Reading a book is infinitely better than playing a video game if not solely for the reason that your brain uses the process of imagination to render. Video games present everything to you requiring nothing but a sensory input sponge.
Oh sure some games evoke a visceral response, and require some hand-eye coordination. However, the power it takes your imagination to render a book in real time is literally infinitely more powerful than any computer could be built to provide. Using your imagination has already been proven to increase cognitive functions.
You probably can't see how much worse it is because your imagination suffers from atrophy.
This is one time where the media might be blamed, since this tactic is very common in movies and TV
I'm sorry things went badly for you and that you feel this way, BUT maybe it's time you moved out of your parents' place, because it sounds like you still live there.
Your issues are not necessarily other people's issues.
Not every family problem is of the same sort as yours.
Not every family problem has the same causes or circumstances as yours.
Without facts to back up your assertions, you're speculating at best.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Your hate is not their hate, strikethree.
Not that what the teens did was right, but it does make me wonder if these parents ever used Nyquil to put their kids to sleep when they were younger. It's pretty much the same thing.
This is horrible. There's no excusing it.
Yet, some part of me can't help but to laugh.
My ex-parents gave me so much bad and delusional advice. They even talked me out of applying to MIT because they thought we wouldn't be able to afford it and that there was no reason to expect getting a degree there was any better than a local no-name college. Years later, I find out that, no, I damned well could have afforded it, fuck we affording it. I have a feeling the real reason they discouraged me from applying was that they were afraid I'd be exposed to leftist ideas.
Not everybody is qualified to be a parent. I'd suppose that a lot of people aren't qualified. How many folks who want to be parents care to do their own research about things like circumcision so they can be prepared if something goes wrong? How many people who want to be parents are prepared for the very real possibility that their child might be homosexual? How many people think that circumcision problems only happen to other people, and that their kids ain't gonna be no queer?
Looking back on my childhood, I'm convinced that I was something that happened to my parents. They didn't want me. They wanted to have a hot steamy night, but their religious principles prevented them from using protection. Do I wish they would have sought abortion? A lot of times, I do. But I'm here, still alive and doing science and trying to learn how to live as a normal person instead of the puritan robot they tried to make me.
This will sound cheesy, but once in high school I started growing my hair out because I wanted long hair. I still remember crying myself to sleep after my ex-father finally got me to cut it off. Sure, I was a myopic teenager at the time, but that's not what strikes me about that memory. I didn't do it because I was forced; I did it because for some sick reason I loved my ex-father and respected his judgement. Most people's fathers get smarter the older they get; my ex-father just gets more idiotic and warped the older I get. I wonder what I'd do instead if I could go back and time and tell myself that in 3 years I'd be spending a weekend homeless.
I was employed, I could have moved out. But I didn't because I trusted two people who turned out to be completely untrustworthy. They didn't even give me a week's notice so that I could look for an apartment and sign a lease. They made sure to keep me nice and sheltered as their 4.0 GPA machine so I wouldn't know what to do on my own, then they gave me until the end of the work day to find somewhere to couch surf or they'd have me thrown in jail for trespassing. I'm still grateful to the friends that made sure I didn't end up permanently homeless and talked me out of suicide.
They said I'd die homeless in a gutter from AIDS. Well, years later after they tried to make that happen, I bought a house. So whatever. Over 10 years, and it still hurts, but I suspect it never will stop hurting. Everyone's got something inside that hurts all the time I suppose. This is my thing inside that hurts.
If I could have children, I'd do so many things differently. First would probably be to love them and try to do the best for them, not for my own ego.
Oh well, that's enough out of me. Posting without karma bonus. Maybe some day there will be a way for me to have my own children.
Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
Because teenagers are famous for always making great choices. They'd never decide, for example, that playing WoW until 5AM was worth the trade off of plummeting grades at school.
Sure there are some control freak parents out there who just make arbitrary rules for no apparent reason. But there are also teenagers out there who make bad choices that might lead to long term problems and it's perfectly reasonable for parents to remove some options. Lots or research points to teenage brains' reward systems being much more active than those of adults, which can be a good thing and a bad thing in different situations but does tend to cause a favoring of short term fun.
Do you really think that we should let every 13 year decide whether they will go to school or play video games each morning?
Taking the story at face value and ignoring the allegedly component. Do you really think a 15 year old who decided that drugging her parents so she could use the internet after 10pm was not only a great idea but followed through on it is going to make great choices in general? She'll have her entire life to make terrible decisions, having a few better choices that have long term benefits is unlikely to make things worse.
Given her parents even considered the idea that they'd been drugged as an option (seriously it wouldn't cross my mind) and took her to the police station rather than having serious conversation with her at home I'm going out on a limb that this isn't the first stupid thing this particular teenager has done.
And sure, they could be terrible control freak parents who also took her to police last week because she left the fridge door open.
I suspect those convicted drivers *knew* that they'd taken Ambien, and that the law might see things differently in a case where it could be shown that the driver did not know he'd been dosed, e.g.
1. Parent drinks some of milkshake.
2. Parent gets in car, starts driving.
3. While behind the wheel in heavy traffic, parent is hit by effect of milkshake's secret mystery ingredient.
4. Parent loses it, has accident before there's even time to get off the road safely.
(For the sake of this discussion, we assume that the parent had taken nothing else that might have impaired his driving.)
If I were the DA in such a case, I'd say that the parent would have had absolutely no reason to believe they'd taken anything that might impair driving until it was too late, and I'd proceed to stick it to the kids--in proportion to the severity of the accident, of course.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
The phrase you're looking for is "Film at 11". Unless you're in the UK, in which case it's "Pictures at 11".
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
The part of the blue state with the streak of red. Where the authoritarians live. Where teaching a lesson to your kid involves THROWING THEM IN JAIL. That'll be good for their relationship. I know that was some fucked up shit, but that is COLD. I don't know if I could do that to my kids, even if they did something like this to me. It's called "unconditional love". Unless your parents are authoritarian fucks who want to hand you over to the state, I guess.
You clearly do not have any experience with seriously misbehaing kids. Sometimes you do need to call the cops. Kids don't grow up properly if you just let them do anything they want with no consequences ever.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Correlation. Causation. There's a slashot chant involving them somewhere...
Possibly the shithead kids are the cause and the strict and controlling parents the effect as they try and help their idiot offspring make a good choice once in a blue moon. Hey they made it to college so maybe it worked?
Might there not also be a set of dickhead kids who didn't have strict and controlling parents and rather than ending up skipping classes in college didn't make it through high school or whatever the "bad option" is these days?
Though clearly there's a mechanism for your theory - overly controlling parents end up with kids who never learned self discipline because they never got to make a choice themselves. But the other way works too - idiot kid gets more and more restrictive rules applied as they keep making the stupid choices over and over again.
What the fuck is wrong with you people? You act like the teen intentionally tried to kill her parents.
What's wrong is that you are not thinking like a DA.
All the DA's office has to do is to say, with a straight face, "We believe that she intended to kill her parents." (Trust me, they're quite good at saying things like this, they get lots of practise.)
Presto! You've got a murder charge. And then she gets to try to prove that this was not her intention, and GLWT.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Insightful? Wow, the mods must have been drugged...
I'm sorry, we've already determined that your opinions on this story are hardly likely to be objective.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
A sociopath is someone with extreme anti-social behavior and a lack of conscience. Given only what we know, it's more likely that the parents are sociopaths for having their child arrested. Historically families are very reluctant to punish family members legally. It's even true for extreme intrafamily problems like child abuse and spousal abuse. For many people, "family problems" are nobody else's business and it would be far more damaging to bring in the law than to cover it up and deal with it privately -- especially when it comes to their children.
Arresting your child for something that *could* have had bad consequences but *actually* didn't is sociopathic in our society, unless there's information we don't know like the child has a history this stuff and it's been escalating.
Yep. Saw this in play with my best friend from grade school. He split from his ex and she allowed his son to do whatever he wanted and live with his own consequences as people here would suggest. He's 25, never had a job and lives with mom. He can't even be bothered to try for an easy job at Walmart and college is a joke to him. I'd say its a classic example of how a "hands off" approach goes horribly wrong in a predictable way. Now, his second son who he won custody of, is 8, has great grades, and has his junior black belt in Karate, and playes Xbox when dad says its ok. Very hands on, and very different result from 50% same parenting. (His 8 yr old will also own you in Gears of War. :) )
The parents would have to "press charges".
Nope. Since this IS a criminal matter, charges are brought by the state, not the victims. Once the authorities found out (the parents probably said they thought someone drugged their milkshake at the police station to get the drug test kit), the parents are nothing more than victims/witnesses. The sword of justice falls without their help.
Who are you? Who are you speaking for? I read some of strikethree's comments and concluded he probably knows what he's talking about.
Yeah, the government totally shouldn't tell rapists whether it is right or wrong to rape, and parents totally shouldn't tell children what time bedtime is.
Totally, man, spot on. You are a genius.
would you want to throw your kid into juvenile justice just because of some dumb stunt?
No, not because of some dumb stunt, but if they commit criminal drugging then yes, I would want to throw my kid into juvi.
There's a line somewhere, and it might be difficult to find, but this is way, way above the line, well outside of the gray area. It is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
Here here!
YOU. DON'T. DRUG. PEOPLE.
Unless you're the adult and you need to drug your kid, or you need to drug your parent, because you know what's best.
These tards talking like it was a prank either don't have kids, or shouldn't.
Does that sense of self-entitlement feel good?
These idiots talking about who should have kids should be cut off from the internet, they never contribute anything useful.
That does feel good.
Responsible parents make sure that their kids learn basic decency, like never ever drugging people.
So the parents in this story, who failed to make sure kids learned basic decency and are now turning to the taxpayer for help -- should they have had kids? If they're such irresponsible parents, can you really blame the kid for being messed up?
Letting this slip would be a major failure at parenting.
Ah. So not responding to a discipline problem by calling the police is a major failure in parenting. Got it.
By the way, do you have kids? You shouldn't.
Still feels good. I get it.
But imposing a 22:00 Internet curfew is well within the bounds.
Within such bounds, how are teenagers supposed to engage in productive communication with people who live in other time zones?
I frequently pull all nighters to play video games. There is nothing wrong with that.
You're also an adult capable of making an educated decision, weighing the consequences (pro and con) before you act, I presume.
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
it's 10, go to bed.
It's not 10 in the country where my electronic pen pal lives. At what hour when she's up may we chat?
"There is absolutely nothing good that can come out of this situation."
Really? Absolutely nothing? You don't consider "rehabilitation" to be anything good? Well, okay then, but I hope you understand that many people think otherwise.
This was evidently done solely to bypass a 10PM curfew. If you think imposing such limits on teen behavior is unreasonable, I have to confess to a certain amount of morbid curiosity to wonder what your kids will turn out like.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
We tell him the Wii goes off at 8 on school nights did 10pm weekends
How would you answer the following: "Then who am I supposed to play with? When it's 10 PM here, it's 10 AM in my friend's time zone, and she's not up and around yet."
We also do what my parents did which is on exceptions allow, as a reward for something such as the straight As, the lengthening of Wii.
Not everybody can get straight A's. Say your child is in a class whose teacher tunes the exams' difficulty such that only 20 percent of students can expect to get straight A's. Mathematically, it's impossible for every student to be in that 20 percent.
What kind of consequences could the decisions of a child have?
It's not like they have responsibilities.
Bedtime? Bah. Once stores started being open late, I had to beg my parents to have me home by my bedtime.
Whatever makes your kids unhappy to the point of making them poison you is clearly unreasonable.
It might very well be, that the parents didn't even choose to press charges against their kids. A doctor might have reported the incident
TFA clears this right up. The parents bought a home drug test when they were suspicious. It tested positive. There was no doctor involved. From TFA: "After the parents got the results, they brought their daughter to the police station."
Let us not forget that a very serious crime has been committed. The kids probably didn't know and didn't intend it, but they might have easily killed one of the parents.
Like you said, we don't know the whole story. Without knowing the details of the drugs involved, how do you know they could have easily killed one of the parents? Maybe the girl knew her parents take sleeping pills occasionally so the odds of it leading to death were very low indeed.
Not many people consider speeding 54 in a 45 to be a very serious crime even though it could also lead to someone's death. Are sleeping pills more dangerous than cars?
If books are inherently superior to video games due to requiring more imagination, and letter writing is inherently superior to video chat due to requiring more imagination, why not just join the Amish? Yes, I admit a false dilemma, but I'd be willing to discuss any the option in the middle that you suggest.
most just play Xbox and that they only have one shared computer among the family
Why did they buy an Xbox instead of a second PC? PC is supposed to stand for personal computer.
Most teenagers have school in the morning. Medical science shows that there is a certain amount of sleep that is desirable for a growing individual to have each night. A curfew is a very reasonable thing for teenagers to make sure they are getting the proper amount of rest each night.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
Aren't you late for Social Studies?
Not because I think I need the state to get involved with my parenting, but because chances are pretty damn good that the friend put my child (in the story the friend provided the sleeping pills) up to this
Chances are good? How did you calculate that? I can't see past 50/50 -- your child was almost certainly the one complaining about the internet curfew. Whether they said "I should slip them something so they just chill out for once" or the friend says "You should slip them something so they just chill out for once" is impossible to determine.
and I need the state to force the friend's parent to seek help.
Really, it sounds like you would do all this for the best interests of the children involved. I have to wonder why you didn't do consider this: The other girl's parents probably aren't any worse than you, probably aren't proud of their daughter's role (whether she instigated the whole thing or just provided the pills) and, assuming they aren't sociopaths like some of the commenters here, would be more than willing to work with you privately instead of immediately calling the cops and throwing their child into the system. Failing that there's the threat of "Do it or I'll call the police on BOTH our daughters" which would make you sound totally insane, but would probably coerce them into doing what you wanted.
But no, none of that, you need to call the cops on your own daughter to force the friend's parents to get involved. Interesting.
Do you really think that we should let every 13 year decide whether they will go to school or play video games each morning?
Not each morning, but at a larger scale, a student who wants to skip school should be offered the chance to take the final exam during week 1 of the school year. Those few who get a B or better will have demonstrated that they are self-motivated enough for accelerated learning or even unschooling.
Hell yes you do! My Dad did when he caught me drinking in high school. He called the police, had me arrested, left me sitting in the jail overnight, then dropped the charges. Point made.
Dad had rules and expected them to be followed. Not following them had repurcussions.
In my family, breaking a law does NOT get a free pass from legal actions. A real loving family member would never put anyone in the family in that situation. THAT is a lesson that everyone should learn from their parents. If you break any law, expect your family to turn you in.
Blocking internet access - even all the time - is what I call good parenting. If the parents only want to white list spongebob for their teens, great. If they want to allow all access all the time, great. If they want to disable the internet after 10pm, great. At least they are being the parents.
These kids need to be taught many lessons. It appears that the parents have not been effective on the "do not harm others" lesson, so professional help is required - cops ARE professionals too.
Should I be a raving drunk on meth because I wasn't able to watch TV and talk on the phone after 10pm ( No Internet when I was a kid )?
When you were a kid, telephone calls to someone in a distant time zone were also cost prohibitive. But nowadays, kids expect to associate with people their own age regardless of what country they live in, and if they live more than six hours apart, that might not be feasible.
As a child, sure. Not as a teen though. Curfew but not a bedtime.
My parents were FAR from controlling, yet the whole way through highschool my sister and I were told many times how late we could stay up.
You may stop to consider that this was not for your benefit, so much as for your parents'.
We need a *break* at the end of the day. Even from parenting our oh-so-precocious and darling children ;)
You operate on the belief that children think like rational adults. They *can* - but many don't, and certainly not where their own well-being is concerned. That's why we don't turn them out at 12 to fend for themselves.
I'm not sure I'd trust a couple teenagers (who are also not doctors) seeking to satisfy their own self centered agenda to take the time to measure and administer the proper dosage.
What they did was reckless and dangerous and could have resulted in serious injury or death.
Serious actions have serious consequences. This is not something where putting them in timeout will really have much of an effect.
Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
Kull: She told me she was 19!
If someone can stay up until 5 AM playing WoW and still end up doing well in school, what's the problem?
Because they won't. Human physiology doesn't work that way. Oh sure it might not matter for a single day but ongoing lack of sleep WILL result in someone under-performing. Part of being a responsible parent is making sure that your child does not hurt themselves and sleep deprivation is without question harmful. Speaking for myself, sleep problems caused by my own actions seriously affected how well I did in school. There is substantial research proving that lack of sleep is hugely detrimental to teenagers.
If they're tired in the morning and end up having a horrible day because of it, chances are they're going to go to bed earlier so they don't get tired.
I work with teenagers daily as a coach. It doesn't work that way in real life. Teenagers do all sorts of things that aren't in their best interests.
Fuck yes.
(3) Playing WoW is not productive. If the child has that much free time available that they are willing to be awake so long, then the greatest percentage of it must be used in a productive pursuit -- either pursuing educational activities, such as reading books, and specifically nonfiction, OR pursuing a productive activity that improves skills/abilities, or earns money.
Money is earned in order to keep you alive to do the thing that you enjoy. It is not the reason you're alive.
Maximize how much you enjoy life. That requires being responsible enough to do well in your studies and to get and hold a job that will pay enough for your necessities and to pay for your hobbies. That said, you do that as little as is necessary. If you enjoy playing WoW more than anything, then you should maximize the time in your life spent playing WoW. If you enjoy your work more than anything, maximize the time you spend there. Personally I think that if you're doing any one thing too much you're missing out on a whole lot of other really fun stuff to do. However, the reason behind not spending all your time in WoW is because you're missing out on fun, not because you're missing out on being productive. Screw being productive, life is too short for that.
Sure, but would you want to throw your kid into juvenile justice just because of some dumb stunt?
"Dumb stunt"? Drugging someone is assault. That is a felony. I agree it is stupid but this sort of thing is WAY beyond being a "stunt".
Not to mention illegal and will result in juvenile detention. Plus, I don't think I'd want to trust a few self-centered teenagers with their own agenda to make that decision for me.
Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
Kull: She told me she was 19!
What kind of consequences could the decisions of a child have?
It's not like they have responsibilities.
Well, the decision of this particular kid could have had the consequence of killing her parents.
They were knocked out and only drank 1/4th of the shake, because they thought it tasted bad. If they drank the whole thing, it's possible the dosage would have killed them.
I might suggest that it is resorting to poisoning the parents in the first place that is unreasonable, especially considering the teens' reasons for dong so were not something any more unreasonable than what is found in millions of other homes.
to even begin to classify such curfews themselves as unreasonable, I think you'd have to show some evidence that most teenage children are actually harmed by the imposition of a 10pm curfew.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Well where do you cross the line...
Perhaps they should have held out for their kids to drug them with hemlock instead?
Sometimes people do things that are so wrong that you really need to put the kids in jail.
You are Grounded for the next 2 months for trying to poison me.
10:00 PM is reasonable. For teenagers I personally would have set it for 11PM, but 10 isn't that crazy. Teens will push the limit stay up until 3,4,5 am then when school starts again their sleeping schedule is so out of whack that they cannot get up and stay awake during school. This is often a problem for College Freshmen, when unshackled may not be disciplined enough to handle this, until after a few weeks with their grades dropping.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Who is betting the kids were doing poorly in school due to late night gab sessions on the internet and the restriction was a justifies response to the situation?
I wouldn't bet that. Consider the facts:
1. The girl drugs her parents
2. The parents have the girl make them milkshakes (didn't make them together as a family since the girl was able to put drugs in them, wait for them to dissolve, etc)
3. The parents are paranoid enough, or knowledgeable enough about drugs, that they immediately suspected drugs based on how they felt, and got a drug kit
4. The parents chose to bring their daughter to the police
We have more knowledge of abnormal behavior from the parents than from the girl.
The reaction may seem excessive to you but not to me. The juveniles put the parents' lives at risk. A day or two in juvenile detention pales before that.
With your incomplete knowledge of the events, you think she put her parents lives at risk? Is that just a gut reaction because the word "drugs" is in the article? Do you think all sleeping pills are incredibly dangerous for all people and the parents are lucky to be alive today?
She probably put her parents' lives more at risk when she was getting her driver's license (if she's 16, we don't even know that). Should that be added to her charge list?
It's bizarre. Most people feel sympathetic towards their own children and don't want to hurt them, even when they make mistakes, even when those mistakes could have hurt the parents, even when they aren't mistakes. The family is such an important unit of society, I feel sorry for this girl to have grown up with such horrible parents.
And yeah I know parents can't always be friends with their children, that's not what this is about. It's about recognizing the family bond, recognizing your responsibilities as a parent, and not relying on Officer Joe and Taxpayer Wendy to raise your children! There are things parents do to their children that would be illegal for others to do to them, and would be illegal for them to do to others.. and that's fine, because that's the special allowance of family. To turn around and call the police when your kids do something bad that had *no actual negative effects*? It's such a betrayal, it's really crazy.
Get out of the house once in a while, and make a friend in your own timezone.
It's not that cut and dry. They don't necessarily hate their parents (though they might "think" they do). Teenagers are self-centered, rebellious assholes. I know, I was one of them. I "hated" my parents. They wouldn't let me run out till all hours of the night. They didn't buy me the latest Judas Priest album as soon as it was released. They didn't satisfy my every want and desire. They made me work for it and earn them on my own. I had to earn my "stuff" by getting a job and buying them. I had to earn my freedoms by showing some responsibility.
I rebelled. I snuck out of the house at night. I stole money from them. I got in trouble with the law. I did some pretty stupid shit and I learned the hard lessons that my parents were trying to teach me to avoid. But there were no punishments my parents could impose that would make me not be such an asshole.
In the case of these teens, sometimes there is no lesson or punishment the parents can impose that will have the same effect as exposure to the system. They are already rebellious and showing contempt for their parents. They've already surpassed the point where any punishment the parents can legally impose will have any effect. At least with juvenile courts they can see the seriousness of their actions without having a lasting record into their adult life. (I can't say the same for me.)
I'm grown now and in my 40s with my own kids. I've realized what an asshole I was and have apologized profusely to my parents for putting them through all that. I realize why they had the rules in place and I know why no punishment they could impose would keep me from breaking them. I had to learn the hard way. I love my parents dearly and I can only hope that I am as good (and patient) a parent as they were.
Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
Kull: She told me she was 19!
The rule for me and my friends was stay up if we want but we BETTER get up for school.
Man bites dog is "news"??
The other child's parents were probably lazy and drugged the child. That is not news... But when the child uses their prescription drug on their friend's parents - that is "news". For internet? That doesn't matter, it is a child - the motives do not need to make sense.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
The part of the blue state with the streak of red. Where the authoritarians live.
Wait, so conservatives are the authoritarians? Who wants to take away guns? Who wants to limit free speech on the radio? Who wants to prohibit salt in restaurants and sodas in convenience stores?
Although speculative, the best prediction of future behavior is the examination of past behavior. I wonder if this was a single incident, or what other past behavior (known or unknown) contributed to it. Either way, I'd be concerned with these kids future behavior.
Unfortunately kids at that age, tend to not make the connection between their choices and the consequences. Antidotally, I remember a kid at 16 y/o that was unable (or perhaps unwilling) to connect that his poor driving record (3 accident in less than 3 months of getting his DL) could even be remotely connected to his extremely heavy "recreational drug and alcohol" use. I wonder if these girls are able to make any connection to their consequences.
As for getting around restrictions? There are other ways than drugging your parents... it seems pretty extreme. What happened to hiding under the covers and accessing your comics/radio/MP3 Player/internet or even from behind closed doors (aka your room, or an area where your parents aren't?). Had it been my parents, and I pulled something like this - police and arrest would have been a certainty - no questions asked whatsoever. But then again, I come from a different generation, before the coddling and instant gratification society became the norm - and also before the pill-popping/pushing became in-vogue. I feel society has a larger influence than what is often considered.
medical science also indicates that the teenage body's sleep cycle shifts to wake up _later_ than a preteen. Yet high school usually starts earlier. (Yeah, it's kind of off topic but it was one of my peeves at that age :)
But, you apparently still think that the kids should've been arrested / permanently condemned for this?
This'll never come off their records. This should have been handled at home after the drug test came back positive.
What the fuck kind of parents are you people?
Put yourself in the parents shoes... it's not their little angel that's responsible.
Your childs friend obviously brought drugs into your house and with your kid, fed them to you.
You obviously want to punish the scumbag kid your child is hanging out with. Chances are, this ain't the first time the parents have had to deal with this shitty friend of the kids.
An arrest is a fast wake-up call to the parents of the other kid. "Hey, your kid drugged me, most likely with medication from your medicine cabinet."
You can't very well do that if your own child is an accomplice (or worse) without also having your own kid arrested.
That is the price the teens pay for assuming they can do whatever they want without consequences. The consequences are very real.
"Then you can play at 9am on Saturday and Sunday, since your friend apparently stays up too late to be up at 9am to play with you."
Not to mention everyone skipping over the little detail that one of the kids isn't even yours!
So many of you are really ok with your kid's friend drugging you ? :O
Let's go drug Jamie's parents again, i hear there is a cool concert on their pay TV tonight.
Which kid would you guess to be the instigator? Your's or the other kid? Are you really ok with either answer?
Firstly you were making the claim. It's your job to back it up if you want people to take you seriously.
Secondly what do incarceration rates have to do with anything? If people know they can get away with something they are more likely to try and commit the crime a situations where normal society falls apart shows.
I know a little bit about how you feel. I made a conscious decision not to kill my stepfather when I was young for a variety of reasons. Juvenile detention and the overall health of my family being my primary considerations. I'm still convinced that decision was correct, even though he was a horrible parent for me (and I suspect for my half-sister as well).
But the other person who responded to this is right. You need to stop living in the past. Be straight about the abusive behavior with your spouse. If they're good for you, they will help you compensate for your tendency to pass the abuse on to your children.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
I'm guessing video games will get blamed for this.
Of course. That and milk.
You mean milk-plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what they were drinking? This would dull them down and get you ready for a bit of the old Facebook.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Get out of the house once in a while, and make a friend in your own timezone.
That won't fly in today's "stranger danger" mentality.
My kid's reaction: "I would too. No regrets."
Need Mercedes parts ?
Parental behavior is more likely to cause child behavior than the reverse, and in my experience is likely to be more or less set before the child has a chance to behave or misbehave. Moreover, the children of more lenient parents learned decision-making and natural consequences earlier. My son's grades were a bit disappointing until he decided, for his own reasons, that he wanted to do well. He still has his own reasons in college, where I can't nag him.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Oh, I'm sure what the kids did was stupid, dangerous, and put the parents at risk. I was merely making the point that not all drugs that knock you out have a lethal side effect at much beyond the therapeutic dose.
The original article didn't state where they got the drugs from. Ketamine is used fairly extensively in animal medicine (especially as a horse tranquilizer) and may or may not be readily accessible to teens if they have close contact with a country vet, for instance.
And finally, you are correct that ketamine has been indirectly responsible for deaths because people are paralyzed and they burn/drown/freeze/whatever, but there were no cases (that I know of) where death was a direct result of ketamine overdose. In any case I'm sure these kids don't know jack about pharmacology or common sense and I am glad that the law slapped 'em down.
Why did this get modded troll...???
The situation is very peculiar. The girl drugging her parents is a huge WTF, and her parents pressing charges over it is another huge WTF.
Does not compute. Need more details.
If the kids don't like those rules they should get jobs and earn some of their own freedom.
Well, evidently if parents don't like being drugged by their children they shouldn't procreate. Or copulate. Ever.
Both of our statements are equally reasonable.
I found sleeping through class actually reduced the misery. Still passed.
I'm the same way, and have been since I was a teenager. If it wasn't for long hours playing video games into the dead of night, I wouldn't be able to do the job I do now. Games got me interested in programming, and keep me interested. And its also a hell of a lot better and cheaper than going out to bars every night (the typical activity of people my age where I live).
In the real world, nobody wants to be productive all day long. There's gotta be at least an hour or two where you do no critical thinking, and let the pleasure centers of the brain do their thang. After a whole week of dealing with bullshit at my job, you bet I'm spending Saturaday night playing EVE or LoL or something for 8+ hours. Its my way of resetting for the next week.
Right, but why did the kid think drugging her parents was a reasonable thing to do? If I were one of her parents, I'd be taking a good look at myself and my abilities as a parent. To just throw the kid into the system is a continuation of bad parenting and won't help the kid at all.
When our daughter was in high school she would study in front of the family computer (only one computer per family then), do homework, listen to music, talk on the phone and instant message all at the same time. My wife and I talked about it and decided to give her a 6 weeks and see how it worked. She made pretty good grades that 6 weeks so we left it alone. What we found was that she could do all that and keep up with school. If she couldn't have, we would have needed to take some other action.
Should she have taken harder classes? Should they have given her harder homework? Should we have given her more things to study? Perhaps. But 10 years later and she's a college graduate, working, married, raising kids and taking care of her responsibilities. It seems to have worked either because of or in spite of our decision.
I suspect there is a back-story to this drugging incident. What's the reason for the 10 PM Internet curfew? Who knows if the parents are jerks or the kid has been escalating the out-of-control behavior, or both? Sad that it came to this any way you cut it.
Another explanation might be they were great parents at the end of their rope with a daughter who has no boundaries.
If their daughter has no boundaries, they are not great parents. It is the parents job to teach their child such things.
Ah. So not responding to a discipline problem by calling the police is a major failure in parenting.
You must be a troll.... How can you have such poor comprehension and make so many assumptions?
Read my quote of what you said. I did not say that in any way. Go away, troll. Nothing you've said here makes sense and draws lots of false assumptions.
It sounds like you don't have a clue.
I'd hope the details will come out during the inquiry. I think the police knows enough not to take the parent's word as gospel.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Whatever importance people attach to things is arbitrary.
You shouldn't presume that a game is unimportant to your kid's life just because it is "just a game". You should discuss it with him/her and see for yourself how important it is for him/her.
Their kid definately showed poor judgement but the parent is the authority figure not the cops. This was just a stupid (maybe very very stupid) stunt to stay up past bedtime... I can't see sending my kid to jail for something like that. Make their lives miserable sure. Punish them sure. Cede your authority to the police and allow them to throw your kid into a juvenile detention center where god knows what kind of abuse will happen to them? No.
How do you figure I'm a troll? This thread started with someone saying they shouldn't have called the cops because it will interfere with the kid's future life and career.
Another guy comes around and says no it's a serious crime, so they should be arrested.
You agree with that person, adding that "Letting this slip would be a major failure at parenting."
To me, it's a major failure in parenting TO CALL THE COPS on your kid when nothing bad actually happened. All the hand waving about this being a serious crime and that it endangered the parents is irrelevant.. lots of people do irresponsible, reckless, dangerous things when they are kids, and most families deal with them internally.
What is this, opposite day? I suspect that the people bravely saying they'd arrest their own children are the actual trolls, since it goes against human nature. When it came down to it, when you realized you're going to give your child, whom you supposedly love... well yeah right. Such people are a small minority.
Keeping in mind that we don't know the history of the family... given what I know this is a parental fail imo. The parents not the judge should have decided what "sentence" was appropriate.
I never suggested that these things weren't important to the kids... I was only arguing that choosing to put such a curfew on their usage is not in any way an objectively unreasonable thing for a parent to do.
That said, considering what the kids resorted to doing here suggests to me that they may be in more need of some major mental therapy than prison. That matter should be for a judge to decide.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
It is unreasonable as long as playing the game during the night is sufficiently important to the kid...
I wouldn't bet that. Consider the facts:
1. The girl drugs her parents
2. The parents have the girl make them milkshakes (didn't make them together as a family since the girl was able to put drugs in them, wait for them to dissolve, etc)
3. The parents are paranoid enough, or knowledgeable enough about drugs, that they immediately suspected drugs based on how they felt, and got a drug kit
4. The parents chose to bring their daughter to the police
1. An entitled juvenile with no boundaries decides she really want to use the internet late at night at a sleepover and comes up with a cunning plan. They do not think far enough that the drugs may kill.
2. Juvenile "Hey Mom, we are making milkshakes. Want one?". Parent "sure". It takes almost no time to dissolve drugs in a blender especially if they have been crushed before hand..
3. Most adults have taken sleeping pills at one time or another so the effects are well known. When they woke up with those symptoms but didn't take any they were suspicious and instead of accusing the juveniles without proof they decided to investigate it. Would you really walk into a juveniles room with a milkshake in your hand and accuse them of drugging you? They would just laugh at you.
4. They decided that the issue was so serious that family justice was not sufficient to impress the gravity of what was done and went to the next level. If the juvenile was willing to something like that to a parent what would they be willing to do to a stranger they hated?
Do you think all sleeping pills are incredibly dangerous for all people and the parents are lucky to be alive today?
In overdose to a person not aware that they are under the influence of the medication they are incredibly dangerous. I was prescribed a strong sleeping pill to be taken at home. The advice of the doctor was to take the prescribed dose and go straight to bed. I was advised to take no other medications while I was on them including OTC antihistamines. The parents did not have this option as they did not know they were taking the sleeping pills. At double that dose there would be coordination and control issues. I could fall down stairs, fall and hit my head, etc. Not knowing they had been administered the sleeping pills the parents may have taken another central nervous system depressant, alcohol, antihistamines, etc. All of which are normal events on most household from time to time. That combined with the overdose of sleeping pills may have stopped their breathing. There are also other medications such as antidepressants that interact with certain sleeping pills and can kill. The drugs were administered before 10PM. The parents may have decided to make a quick run to the store for something "Hey we're out of ice cream lets get some more" and had an accident. There have been instances where people have taken too much sleep medication, gone to sleep in the bath, slipped under the water and drown. There are several ways the parents could have died and the juveniles didn't care about that; they just wanted their fun.
She probably put her parents' lives more at risk when she was getting her driver's license (if she's 16, we don't even know that). Should that be added to her charge list?
That is BS. Any one teaching a juvenile to drive would not take them out on the highway before teaching them to be safe. That is also not an illegal activity done for a trivial selfish reason. On a completely logical level your argument is false. Just because there is danger in one situation does not mean that it is OK to create danger in another situation. Another reason for falsehood is that when teaching a juvenile to drive the parent knowingly accepts the danger as they can take measures to control it. These parents did not have the option as they did not know they were given sleeping pills.
I feel sorry for this girl to have grown up with such horrible parents.
Excellent
If you genuinely believe that, you clearly have never been a parent
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The article does state where they got the medication. Here is the quote;
the daughter secretly put her friend's prescription sleeping medicine
Ketamine was in all probability not the medication.
Have you had teenagers? At that point in life peers have much more influence in a juvenile's lives than their parents.
You also missed the main points of my post.
1. It seems that you think assumptions are bad unless you are the one making them.
2. It seems that you think the only explanations are the ones you agree with.
You are incorrect on both points.
Oh my!!! Who ever would have imagined that we actually have to live with the consequences of the choices that we make?!
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Their kid definately showed poor judgement but the parent is the authority figure not the cops. This was just a stupid (maybe very very stupid) stunt to stay up past bedtime... I can't see sending my kid to jail for something like that. Make their lives miserable sure. Punish them sure. Cede your authority to the police and allow them to throw your kid into a juvenile detention center where god knows what kind of abuse will happen to them? No.
Did you not read what I wrote? Maybe the parents are SCARED of their child as in this isn't the first time they did something crazy. Being the authority figure is great and all until your kid shoots you in the face with an ar-15. You can question their decision all you like but it isn't YOUR kid, you have no idea what all is going on. I don't think anyone here is saying getting the police involved is great but sometimes that's all you can do.
And honestly you are kind of talking out of your ass. What can YOU really do if your kid decides to tell you to fuck off? What are you going to do when they don't give a shit what you say anymore? You going to beat them into line cause i'm sure DSS would love to throw you in jail. Kick them out into the street? once again DSS, lock them in their room? DSS... Truth is you have no power over your kid except their fear of you. When a kid becomes mentally ill or just stops caring you better watch your ass.
When I was a child and afterwards a teen I had no curfews or time limits, my mother always treated my as an adult and gave me responsibility. Ever since I was a small kid I was told that I should make correct decisions because I was not an idiot.
I rarely abused that trust, maybe I was a rare teen... I could stay up all night to play games, however I rarely was up past 12:00, sometimes (once per week) up to 2 am, and very rarely later...
Now that I am studying medicine I still rarely stay up late during the actual work weeks simply because I feel tired, unproductive and very irritable the next day.
Actually I think that what always made me go to sleep on the right
First off, I am not a doctor or a pharmacist, but I do have an interest in chemicals/drugs/medications and research them frequently. That being stated, the drugs you mentioned are all benzodiazepines. They are GABA agonists which slow the electrical signaling in the brain and can produce a relaxing/sedating effect similar to alcohol (imagine feeling drunk, but without the loss of motor coordination). They are used as sedatives and as anxiolytics (anxiety reducing drugs) for SHORT TERM USE ONLY (2-4 weeks)! Sorry about the caps, but it's important. Many, many people have been harmed by doctors who prescribed the drugs inappropriately. Benzo withdrawal is far worse than, say, opiate (heroin, morphine) withdrawal and it can take years for the body to undo the changes the drugs induce in the brains of users. People have committed suicide while going through benzo withdrawal.
Now, how safe are the benzos? Relatively speaking, they're pretty safe when used properly, and it's difficult to overdose to the point of death. You can take 100 times the effective dose and live, you'll just take a nice long nap (coma) and be okay when you awake. However, and this is extremely important, if you combine alcohol with a normal dose of benzos you may die. Seriously, please don't do this to yourself!
More common problems with the benzos arise from the fact that they also lower inhibitions. I have read stories of people going on gambling/sex/whatever binges because their inhibitions were reduced from the drug. There's also the possibility that people will re-dose once they're feeling nice and happy from the drug.
Another serious problem with the drugs is something called anterograde amnesia. This typically occurs in overdose situations when the user doesn't realize they have overdosed (it's subtle and sneaks up on you). Anterograde amnesia occurs when the brain cannot commit items in short-term memory to long-term memory. What happens in this situation is that the user is completely in the moment and coherent, but because memories don't make it to the part of the brain that does long-term storage, the user will have no recollection of events later on when the drug has worn off! I have experienced this myself and it is not a good feeling to have no recollection of the past two days. In my case, I woke up on Monday thinking it was Saturday, as I had no recollection of the weekend, and I started doing some activities that had been planned for Saturday that I had already completed. I spoke to people on the phone in my overdosed state and they said I sounded fine when I asked them about it later. I felt weird all day (and for a couple of days after that), I'm guessing this is what the parents meant by saying they had a hangover.
The main point I'm trying to make is that "sleep aids" can be deadly and should not be treated as benign drugs. Those two kids could have easily killed someone with their damn milkshake.
I'm assuming you mean overdose to death and not just overdose, because it's pretty easy to overdose on a bezo. You don't necessarily feel an overdose and you're not going to know you did it until you wake up later with amnesia.
Combine a normal dose of benzos with alcohol and you can die. It's extremely easy to overdose and die, I'm not sure why you minimize the risk. Many, many people mix alcohol and other drugs thinking it's no big deal. Sometimes they live, sometimes they die. Please don't do it.
You're correct though, taken by themselves you can take 100 or even 1,000 times a therapeutic dose and be fine. You'll sleep for days, or even weeks, but you'll eventually wake up.
I figure you're a troll because you cannot prove that I said what you are saying I said when I quoted you. If I had more time, I'd point out how the rest of your first reply to me is ridiculous as well.
How are you supposed to know what I mean if all those other things other people said preceded what I said? Simple. Read what is written. You cannot see between the lines over the internet, so you shouldn't attempt to. Communication is a big deal, and the lack thereof is one of the major causes of issues in the world. It is helpful for yourself and everyone else if you take what is said as it is said and leave your presumptions/assumptions/inferences out of it, or kindly ask before drawing your own conclusions based on those (likely false) assumptions.
Have you had teenagers? At that point in life peers have much more influence in a juvenile's lives than their parents.
I do not dispute this. However, to be categorized as "great" I would contend that parents need to be able to overcome these types of difficulties in raising their children. It is certainly possible that the parents in question are perfectly adequate.
You also missed the main points of my post.
1. It seems that you think assumptions are bad unless you are the one making them. 2. It seems that you think the only explanations are the ones you agree with. You are incorrect on both points.
I am not interested in these points. I assume (har har) that they are meant for the AC who you replied to.
You are one data point which proves nothing. The other children who sleep in class may not be as smart or familiar with the subject as you and may fail. Until there is a study that proves sleeping in class does not lead to higher rates of failure you story is anecdotal.
RTFA.
They didn't have a home drug test handy, they went to the police station and got one and tested themselves.
That is probably how the police got involved.
I was trying to point out to the AC that there could be an alternate explanation. Notice that I said "Another explanation might be...". I stated that there might be another explanation not the the explanation was a fact. The issue I had with the your post was the assumption that parental teaching is automatically accepted by a juvenile. It is quite possible that the parents did everything right and the juvenile went a different direction. There is a huge difference between direction and control. Parents have the former; not the latter.
Sorry about the second part. My bad, I didn't check the name.
The key lesson isn't in satiating a biological need for sleep.
It's in discipline, in doing what the fuck you're told by your parents even if you don't like it.
Respect for and obedience to authority, in spite of its detractors, is in fact a valuable life lesson.
Most things in life are under other people's control and learning to do as they say and not piss them off will get you a lot farther than being a rambo who insists on doing things his own way.
You obey traffic rules or you don't get to drive. You obey your boss or you don't get a paycheck. You obey your landlord or you don't get a home. You obey your mother or you don't get privileges.
Any time you are under someone else's rule, you are obliged to obey them. It doesn't even have to be fair. The bottom line is respect for the property of others that you are making use of, as well as the agents representing them, and in that regard their word is law.
Besides, I bet at least half of the "I wanna do things my way" people would quite hypocritically demand the very same obedience they scorn from the authorities they spurn if their roles were reversed.
I'd go further and confiscate their modem or router if I caught them using it past bedtime.
I'm not going to let my kids grow up to be stubborn insubordinate hooligans.
Honestly, losing internet now is a lot better than losing freedom or a job later.
Teaching children to respect authority for its own sake keeps them out of trouble later. Because like it or not the real world revolves around people doing what the fuck they're told by social superiors.
I know it's not fair. I don't care, neither is the real world.
The teens drugging others is not just a family problem. It's dangerous sociopathic behavior, and the crime was not just limited to their daughter.
Sorry, but they need to face the consequences for what they did. They're not even in an adult jail, so the odds of them being murdered in custody is a hell of a lot less likely.
I don't see all the kids who ever hit their parents being locked up.
.: Semper Absurda
It does seem that is the schools actually care about the students being awake, they should set the schedule more appropriately.
My kids have grown and have kids of their own, so I have a slightly longer view than many posting here. Surprisingly, they all turned out fine. As parents we forget that there's lots of middle ground between 'my way or the highway' and 'do whatever you want.'
In my experience, there are times when it's really important to stand your ground. These are the times when your kid is toe to toe with you and asking 'who is in charge here?' This starts at about two and continues until 18. The trick is recognizing when your authority as a parent is being tested. Those are the times you have to show that you are the parent. You stand tough on the rules, ground them. Take the router or cell phone away.
But most of the time, it does not have to be a power struggle. A 10 pm internet curfew is reasonable, but perhaps on weekends, when her friend was over, they could have been more flexible with the time. As a parent, you actually have very little control over a teenager but they often control themselves if you have allowed them to make reasonable decisions as they grew up.
I tried to give my kids more responsibility for their choices as they got older and I considered 17 to be a pivotal year. By then, they were allowed to make many of their own decisions, and suffer the cosequenses. (Staying up late == a bad day at school). Remember, your job is to raise responsible adults, not perfect children.
There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
Money is earned in order to keep you alive to do the thing that you enjoy. It is not the reason you're alive.
The fact is, most people will need money and resources to achieve sustainable happiness, and most people cannot truly afford to sustain "maximum possible time spent recreating" until retirement.
In general parents will not (or can not) provide such things. To the extent possible, the child has to learn to be productive to ultimately earn money over their lifetime that will enable them to buy themselves things such as cars, house, money, food, electricity, computers to play WoW, WoW subscription fees, Internet service to access WoW.
The parent providing the child is a temporary situation to enable the child on their journey; everyone needs some time recreating, however, to the extent possible, the child must be working on growing up: that is, gathering both the education (book education and practical education), and financial resources to fund a reasonable path to enlightenment and happiness.
Also the form of happiness that takes emotions derived from pride/accomplishment and achieving status are also important things that teenagers need to learn, and are only available through productive self-improvement activities --- and gaining a few levels in WoW or solving a quest don't really count.
However, the reason behind not spending all your time in WoW is because you're missing out on fun, not because you're missing out on being productive.
Fun is not Happiness. Fun is only one possible way of being happy.
There are also experiences such as finding true love that are different from Fun, and inherently involve large amounts of productive work (so much so, that it can be barely possible to achieve).
Having teenagers is also work, and not necessarily much fun for the parents, but still, gives parents' happiness.
So anyways, while you shouldn't treat your child as if they must be in a slave labor camp, On average At most 3 to 4 hours a night during weekdays, should just be "recreation time", followed by 8 hours of mandatory sleep, more time on weekends, but never less than 21 hours a week allowed to be spent studying/homework outside class, nor less than 14 hours a week spent working, either on chores to earn privileges such as a WoW subscription, or at a part time job to earn money to buy their own WoW subscription.
Staying up all night reading books isn't a good idea either if you have school or work the next day.
That all depends. If you have a test on the subject matter, and you needed to read something you forgot to read, you may still improve your lot by reading the book.
You are less likely to be addicted to a book and be unable to put it down, completely unaware of the passage of time VS a video game. It does happen, but the activity of reading has natural stopping points such as the end of a chapter.
Chatting and talking with people does improve their English skills if they don't speak English natively. At least that's what I see when my 12 year old son has full score on every English test he has done so far, something no other kid manage to get in his class.
We were talking about teenagers. The people the 12 year old is chatting with are most likely older. They can improve their dexterity with typing and other language skills, particularly when chatting in a place where other people have more developed skills.
However, the same can be done more quickly, through IRC chat, or by reading eBooks, writing blogs, and participating on Facebook; the latter two of which many children partake (usually involving lying about their age, to state they are 13 or older).
They may also, however, be in danger of becoming overly accommodated with chat room idiosyncrasies. For example, they might get penalized for using "WTH" or "LOL" on a school paper, or an emoticon.
Often times chat participants will not be good role models; they may sling obscenities, spam, or other sexually obscene/offensive texts that a 12 year old has no business being in a place where they may be seen.
This one of the problems with todays kids, you can't get them real jobs. That's how my dad and granddad learned that going to school and getting okay grades was easy. Literately, they where sent to work because of bad grades not showing up for school, they worked for a year around age 12 for my granddad and age 14 for my father. They learned two things 1. that school was easier then assemble line work 2. That they would do better in life with a better education. Me, am a lazy dude who graduated late for both high school and collage.
So you believe your kid's gonna be better after the consequencies (which might be pretty harsh) or are you thinking that they are so dangerous to the society that their well-being comes secondary?
Wouldn't be where I live, but what I've read, american justice system is batshit insane with people getting decades of jailtime for stuff that couldn't end up killing people even in theory.
Well, yeah, normally it'd go like that, but when it's your kid we're talking about you are damaging your own gene pool if the negative consequenses outweight the benefits. (which isn't necessarily true in this case though)
You're being an idiot in calling me a troll.. maybe you don't have experience with actual trolling (taking a controversial or emotionally charged position in order to get a response from your target).
You said. "Letting this slip would be a major failure at parenting."
"This" = the teen's actions, drugging her parents.
"slip" = the op's suggestion, not arresting the teen.
My argument is that the teen's actions are not a serious crime that deserves arrest but a family issue that should have been dealt with internally.
If you think I'm putting words in your mouth by recharacterizing your argument as suggesting arrest as a response to a discipline problem, not a serious crime, you should say that and we can discuss whether I'm justified. Not fall back on words you don't understand like trolling.
But it's about what I expect from someone whose style of "debate" is to call his opponents tards who shouldn't have kids.
1. An entitled juvenile with no boundaries decides she really want to use the internet late at night at a sleepover and comes up with a cunning plan. They do not think far enough that the drugs may kill.
I also believe it's likely she did not think that her actions could kill her parents, but that it was a cunning plan to get away with something.
2. Juvenile "Hey Mom, we are making milkshakes. Want one?". Parent "sure". It takes almost no time to dissolve drugs in a blender especially if they have been crushed before hand..
That sounds like a friendly open relationship, which doesn't fit how the parents react in #3 and #4.
You could be right, of course, and the teen got the parents to drink the milkshake by being manipulative like posing it as an attempt at making up and being friendly after a long history of doing weird things with a disregard for potential consequences. There is a narrative where I would support arresting her, but we don't know that stuff.
I think it's more likely that parents become controlling and almost abusive of a teenage girl than that a teenage girl becomes a sociopath who poses a mortal risk to her parents.
In overdose to a person not aware that they are under the influence of the medication they are incredibly dangerous.
How do you know she gave them an overdose? It doesn't say that in the article.
Not knowing they had been administered the sleeping pills the parents may have taken another central nervous system depressant, alcohol, antihistamines, etc. All of which are normal events on most household from time to time. That combined with the overdose of sleeping pills may have stopped their breathing. There are also other medications such as antidepressants that interact with certain sleeping pills and can kill. The drugs were administered before 10PM. The parents may have decided to make a quick run to the store for something "Hey we're out of ice cream lets get some more" and had an accident. There have been instances where people have taken too much sleep medication, gone to sleep in the bath, slipped under the water and drown. There are several ways the parents could have died and the juveniles didn't care about that; they just wanted their fun.
That's all true, and goes back to your #1 point about the teen's lack of judgment. That doesn't show intent to hurt her parents, though, and also we don't know how the girl would have reacted if her parents did one of those things. If they said "Just remembered I need to run to the store" or "Time for a few beers before bed" she might have stopped them with much shame. This is just speculation.
There is a point in many families where the juvenile realizes that parents have no power. If a juvenile does something wrong what can a parent really do? Ground them? The child just walks out? Tie them to their bed? No. Hit them No. Talk to them. They just ignore the words.
If done excessively it's abuse obviously, but how is it abusive to give your child a timeout in their room, or a spanking that doesn't leave bruises etc?
Anyway the kind of child you're talking about doesn't mesh with your point #1 about an entitled girl with poor judgment. Sounds more like a budding street thug who doesn't get anything positive from his parents that could be withheld (like internet access), doesn't care about family-style punishment, and in fact doesn't even care about being welcome at home. In this case, the girl apparently respects the 10pm internet curfew enough that she feels she has to incapacitate her parents to get around it. Not sneak out to a friend's house, not openly walk out with a big "fuck you," not trash the house, not push her parents until they relent or become abusive and she calls the cops on them, but do something very non-confrontational that she thought would be undetectable. To me that's evidence that she was scared of them and of their
Gotta say that depends on the person.
Sure, for many it is the case that video games are far more immersive than a book (especially, in my experience, todays younger generation).
It is fair to say, however, that this does not apply to all. Case in point... me! Don't get me wrong, I can definately get immersed in a game and lose track of the passage of time, but I find that this is far more common for me when reading than when gaming, regardless of whether the book is based in fact or fiction.
Just my $0.03 (At current exchange rates, my £0.02 is worth more than your $0.02)
How do you know she gave them an overdose? It doesn't say that in the article.
Considering that there was enough drug in 1/4 of the drink to put them to sleep before they wanted to I would say four times as much would be an overdose. I was taking a sleeping medication where two time the normal dose was considered an overdose.
If done excessively it's abuse obviously, but how is it abusive to give your child a timeout in their room, or a spanking that doesn't leave bruises etc?
Time outs only work if the child will comply. You and I agree that the occasional spanking may be justified but today's PC child protection services generally sees and spanking for any reason as abuse.
Anyway the kind of child you're talking about doesn't mesh with your point #1 about an entitled girl with poor judgment
I said entitled not spoiled. When a teen has the idea in their head the "I can have anything I want when I want no matter what my parents say" there is a problem with the child and not the parents.
In this case, the girl apparently respects the 10pm internet curfew enough that she feels she has to incapacitate her parents to get around it.
That is not respect that is dislike. Had she respected the cerfew she would not have tried to get around it.
Not sneak out to a friend's house, not openly walk out with a big "fuck you," not trash the house, not push her parents until they relent or become abusive and she calls the cops on them, but do something very non-confrontational that she thought would be undetectable. To me that's evidence that she was scared of them and of their punishments.
To me that is evidence that she is sneaky and wanted to get away undetected to avoid punishment. Everyone wants to avoid punishment.
But it's not like you get one chance to go to the cops, and if you tried having that conversation first then you missed your chance.
Maybe they had that conversation. Articles rarely have a blow by blow account of the events.
A sociopath is someone with extreme anti-social behavior and a lack of conscience.
Arresting your child for something that *could* have had bad consequences but *actually* didn't is sociopathic in our society.
By your own definition, it takes more than just deviating from societal norms to be a sociopath. Deviating from "Historically... very reluctant" and "For many people..." does not, in my book, a sociopath make.
Whilst I would agree that the parents' actions could be seen as extreme, they are not what I would consider to be anti-social.
Let's flip things on their heads a moment. Using your own examples, are you saying that if the parents were abusing the daughter and she went to the authorities, that would make her a sociopath?
There is a reason that "For many people, "family problems" are nobody else's business and it would be far more damaging to bring in the law than to cover it up and deal with it privately -- especially when it comes to their children." It's called embarrassment. The damage they're worried about is to the parents' reputation, which is oftentimes far more carefully guarded than their childrens' wellbeing. Your use of the term "cover it up" is evidence of this.
Returning to your last paragraph, are you suggesting that if the consequences HAD been bad, then arrest would have been justified? If that is so, all you are reinforcing in the kids with this attitude is that punishment comes from being unlucky, not from doing the wrong thing. Parents should be reinforcing in their kids that irresponsible behaviour results in serious consequences, and, IMHO, the best way to reinforce this is to base the lessons learned on the potential for harm that could result from the actions the kids have taken, not on the actual outcome. Otherwise the message is "You got away with it this time, you probably will again".
Just my $0.03 (At current exchange rates, my £0.02 is worth more than your $0.02)