Slashdot Mirror


Man Charged With HIPAA Violations For Video Taping Police

Bob the Super Hamste writes "The St. Paul Pioneer Press is reporting that Andrew Henderson was recording Ramsey County sheriff's deputies frisking a bloody-faced man, who was then loaded into an ambulance by paramedics. Then sheriff's deputy Jacqueline Muellner approached Henderson and confiscated his video camera, stating, 'We'll just take this for evidence,' which was recorded on Henderson's cell phone. On October 30th, Henderson went to the Arden Hills sheriff's office to retrieve his video camera, where he was told where he would have to wait to receive his camera back. A week later, Henderson was charged with obstruction of legal process and disorderly conduct, with the citation stating, 'While handling a medical/check the welfare (call), (Henderson) was filming it. Data privacy HIPAA violation. Refused to identify self. Had to stop dealing with sit(uation) to deal w/Henderson.' In mid November, Henderson went back to the sheriff's office to attempt to retrieve his camera and get a copy of the report when Deputy Dan Eggers refused. ... Jennifer Granick, a specialist on privacy issues at Stanford University Law School, states that the alleged violation of HIPAA rules by Andrew Henderson is nonsense, stating, 'There's nothing in HIPAA that prevents someone who's not subject to HIPAA from taking photographs on the public streets, HIPAA has absolutely nothing to say about that.'" The article notes that the Deputy in question basically told the guy he was arrested for being a "buttinski" and recording someone in the midst of a violent mental health breakdown. Supposedly the footage was deleted from the camera while in police custody.

620 comments

  1. sigh by RearNakedChoke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For fraks sake. Will SCOTUS please making a damn ruling that absolutely allows for any and all recording of police officers in a public place no matter what? This is getting ridiculous.

    1. Re:sigh by SJHillman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They're already making up bullshit to get away with it... what makes you think a SCOTUS ruling will stop it? They may have well charged the guy with poaching polar bears... it would have made as much sense as claiming a HIPAA violation to get him to stop video taping.

    2. Re:sigh by Derekloffin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree, although sadly they'd probably find another BS reason to arrest people over this. I just wish these cops and prosecutors wouldn't keep proving they lack integrity like this. Sigh.

    3. Re:sigh by logjon · · Score: 0

      And we're all funding it, to boot.

      --
      The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
      Only fools would take it as fact.
    4. Re:sigh by Scutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Stop voting for the prosecutors who lack integrity. I blame voters who don't pay any attention to the candidates for whom they vote. They vote for whichever name sounds the best.

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    5. Re:sigh by Sulphur · · Score: 4, Funny

      They're already making up bullshit to get away with it... what makes you think a SCOTUS ruling will stop it? They may have well charged the guy with poaching polar bears... it would have made as much sense as claiming a HIPAA violation to get him to stop video taping.

      This here poaching a pola bears has to stop. Yo in a heap a troulble heah.

    6. Re:sigh by ohnocitizen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We need legislation that not only enshrines the right to record any and all public officials, but adds severe consequences to the destruction of evidence.

    7. Re:sigh by geekoid · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Based on my experience with HIPAA, it's very likely the officer thought he was correct.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For fraks sake. Will SCOTUS please making a damn ruling that absolutely allows for any and all recording of police officers in a public place no matter what? This is getting ridiculous.

      You realize SCOTUS doesn't have the power to just swoop down out of nowhere and make rulings about whatever catches their fancy, right? They have to have a case brought before them.

    9. Re:sigh by DragonTHC · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The police have been terrified ever since Rodney King was filmed getting his beating.

      Let's not forget, today's police are not Andy Griffith. Their job can be dangerous, and they're only human. That doesn't mean they have a right to privacy in their work. It doesn't mean they can violate their use of force policies because no one is watching. People are watching. That just means they need to follow the rules too. Understood they're not happy about it.

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    10. Re:sigh by MrKevvy · · Score: 5, Informative

      SCOTUS doesn't need to make a ruling upholding a constitutional right, as the constitution already does.

      The Justice Department affirmed this strongly when they sent a letter to the Baltimore PD which asserted that it is a first amendment right to record, and a violation of the fourth and fourteenth amendments to access and/or destroy such recordings without due process and/or a warrant.

      This made national headlines and so it's assured every police department in the U.S. is well aware of this.

      The victim should be contacting the DOJ and ACLU in short order.

      --
      -- Insert witty one-liner here. --
    11. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not "no matter what". Film all you want as long as you're not interfering. These fools with phones often get with 5' of a situation after being told to "stand back" and not being told "stop filming". Majority of complaint I've seen the filmers are being legitimate problem. If you're little screen is too fuzzy from 10 years away, too bad.

      Of course there are situations where cops are telling people to stop videoing, but this case doesn't sound like it, if "dad to stop dealing with sit(uation) to deal w/Henderson" is true.

    12. Re:sigh by dcollins · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's common knowledge that police go trolling through law books looking for anything that sounds remotely charge-able against people they don't like.

      FTA: Deputy Dan Eggers in a recording, speaking to the victim: "They felt like you were being a 'buttinski' by getting that camera in there and partially recording what was going on in a situation that you were not directly involved in."

      That, combined with destruction of the evidence, does not remotely sound like honest belief in a HIPAA violation by an expert person knowledgeable in medical-industry practices.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    13. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      AAAahahahaha!

      Oh, that's good, acting like voting matters.

      But no, seriously, we should come up with a real way to solve the problem.

    14. Re:sigh by hawguy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Based on my experience with HIPAA, it's very likely the officer thought he was correct.

      Based on my experience with police, it's more likely that the officer knew he was incorrect. They'll make up rules and laws that don't exist if you are doing something they don't like because there are no repercussions when they lie to you.

    15. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Preferably a ruling that ends with the offending officer (hell, why not the entire department including its civilian staff) being strapped to a gurney and pumped full with barbiturates, paralytics and potassium.

    16. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, just don't vote then?

    17. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
      I have a pretty high-end video recorder & even it can't record something

      from 10 years away

    18. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Lack of respect... wrong attitude... failure to obey authority...

      The farm, immediately.

    19. Re:sigh by Amouth · · Score: 2

      SCOTUS rulings mean very little until you are in a court room.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    20. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, they do have that power. They don't traditionally *do* so because *most* cases where that might be appropriate are handled appropriately at the lower levels, and they have limited bandwidth available to handle the cases that *aren't*.

      That said, the SCOTUS already *has* ruled on similar cases. It's legal to film cops in public. The cops just don't necessarily *like* it, so they keep trying to come up with excuses to disallow it, and hassle those who do it.

    21. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The day is coming that the SCOTUS will back the police. It may be this case. Why should the police and politicians have all the fun of ignoring the Constitution?

    22. Re:sigh by ChipMonk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Their job can be dangerous, and they're only human.

      Which is all the more reason to allow citizen recording. When some flaming asshole decides he's going to accuse the police of excessive force, brutality, what have you, third-party record of the incident will be the police officer's best friend.

    23. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can record anyone you want in a public location. There is no expectation of privacy. You also do not have to identify yourself to a police officer or even speak to them. This is going to get thrown out in court and hopefully the officers involved will be punished for theft (possible grand theft depending on how expensive the phone was) of the camera and false arrest.

    24. Re:sigh by girlintraining · · Score: 2

      That, combined with destruction of the evidence, does not remotely sound like honest belief in a HIPAA violation by an expert person knowledgeable in medical-industry practices.

      Correct. An expert knows not to leave witnesses, or evidence, but if there simply must be one or the other, to ship it overseas, write a bunch of CYA policy documentation, and then blame "the other guy" when caught.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    25. Re:sigh by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      what makes you think a SCOTUS ruling will stop it?

      I don't think anything will solve any type of police misconduct in one fell swoop, but I doubt a supreme court ruling against this crap would hurt.

    26. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Oh, that's good, acting like voting matters.

      Excellent demonstration of the cynical retardation that has put us into this mess.

    27. Re:sigh by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We need legislation that not only enshrines the right to record any and all public officials, but adds severe consequences to any violation of law by law enforcement personnel.

      FTFY.

      I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing corrupt cops literally getting away with murder (and every crime between). Time to bring the Blue Wall of Silence crashing down.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    28. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you been asleep? The one-party system is running wild, taking what they will when they can. This isn't going to stop. Too many sheep are willing to have their rights trampled in order to prove that their party is right no matter what. Freedom is dead, it has been bought for the price of partisan pride. That's the bottom line.
       
      Sweet dreams.

    29. Re:sigh by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      Based on my experience with HIPAA, it's very likely the officer thought he was correct.

      Based on my experience with 95% of the cops I've encountered, the officer always thinks he's correct, even when he knows he's not.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    30. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even better? Repeal Qualified Immunity. Reverse the multiple decisions that police do not have to act in defense of you or your property. Make the police accountable, 100%. Watch police either fall and let people form a newer, better force, or the police suffer massive reforms and become what they are -- public servants.

    31. Re:sigh by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      With that in mind....

      Does NO ONE out there have their phone to automatically 'lock', and have their password be longer than 4x numbers?

      A cop gets my phone...will take them more than casual effort to get into it, no?

      Hell, last time I got pulled over, and was asked to get out of the car, I dropped the phone down beside the seat, and when I stepped out of the car, I locked it behind me, and no...if they had asked, I would not have given consent for search.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    32. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Soap, ballot, jury, ammo.

      Soap boxes get smashed by the rally of thousands of opponents whose opposition can be summed up as "I don't get your argument and think you're stupid."
      Ballot boxes get stuffed by lies and gerrymandering and arcane rules that prevent good people from attaining power.
      Jury boxes get emptied by so many laws on the books that they're guaranteed to get you on something so you better cut a plea bargain instead.

      Shit.

    33. Re:sigh by interkin3tic · · Score: 2

      How would we know? Voter turnout for the presidential election was about 50%. For local elections, like prosecutors, it's lower. Aside from rare occasions, people who don't know a local candidate personally don't vote. Can you name any of your state legislators, prosecutor etc? WE HAVEN'T TRIED INFORMED VOTING. At least not in a while.

      Anyway, what are you suggesting? If not voting them out... then what? Vigilante justice? Living in the woods away from society?

    34. Re:sigh by taustin · · Score: 1

      I have to agree. This kind of BS won't stop until a cop gets prosecuted for civil rights violations. Be interesting if people started making citizen's arrests for same, but I'm not holding my breath.

    35. Re:sigh by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Informative

      A cop gets my phone...will take them more than casual effort to get into it, no?

      Actually, no.

      Generally, law enforcement is going to get into your phone pretty handily.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    36. Re:sigh by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      What experience would that be? Based on my experience with HIPAA, the officer knew they were full of shit when they made that argument.

    37. Re:sigh by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Their job can be dangerous

      Which explains why I'm not allowed to film loggers, pilots, miners, roofers, fishermen, pizza drivers, or any of several other professions that carry an even higher risk of on-the-job fatalities.

      No, police officers are just better at whining about how dangerous their job is.

    38. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good job ignoring the rest of his post.

    39. Re:sigh by hduff · · Score: 2

      It's common knowledge that police go trolling through law books looking for anything that sounds remotely charge-able against people they don't like.

      FTA: Deputy Dan Eggers in a recording, speaking to the victim: "They felt like you were being a 'buttinski' by getting that camera in there and partially recording what was going on in a situation that you were not directly involved in."

      That, combined with destruction of the evidence, does not remotely sound like honest belief in a HIPAA violation by an expert person knowledgeable in medical-industry practices.

      The guy violated the anti-'buttinski' laws. The cops now want him to experience "buttupski" punishment.

      --
      "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
    40. Re:sigh by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, I have no opinion about the latter half of his post -- but from a technology side, his belief of it being more than casual effort to get into his phone might let him down.

      Simply locking it doesn't safeguard you. Refusing a search? Well, they might just find other things to charge you for. We're already talking about the bad behavior which can come from cops who don't get their own way and try to find new ways to punish you for it.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    41. Re:sigh by immaterial · · Score: 1

      He has tried contacting the ACLU multiple times and has been ignored; he also "makes too much money" to qualify for a public defender, but (unsurprisingly given how low states tend to set the bar) doesn't actually make enough to afford the $20k minimum a lawyer would actually cost for this. Hence his big push for Internet publicity in the past few days; hopefully it pushes the ACLU or someone to help him out.

    42. Re:sigh by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Perhaps if they WERE more like Andy Griffith their job would be less dangerous.

      Their job is dangerous because they have lost public support in many communities. They lost that support because people don't support jack booted thugs. It's why parents tell their kids that if they get lost, avoid the police and find a woman with kids to help them.

    43. Re:sigh by hduff · · Score: 1

      SCOTUS doesn't need to make a ruling upholding a constitutional right, as the constitution already does.

      The Justice Department affirmed this strongly when they sent a letter to the Baltimore PD which asserted that it is a first amendment right to record, and a violation of the fourth and fourteenth amendments to access and/or destroy such recordings without due process and/or a warrant.

      This made national headlines and so it's assured every police department in the U.S. is well aware of this.

      The victim should be contacting the DOJ and ACLU in short order.

      Attention, Ramsey County Sheriff Deputy: Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

      --
      "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
    44. Re:sigh by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      It's not "no matter what". Film all you want as long as you're not interfering. These fools with phones often get with 5' of a situation after being told to "stand back" and not being told "stop filming". Majority of complaint I've seen the filmers are being legitimate problem. If you're little screen is too fuzzy from 10 years away, too bad.

      >

      So, cops bitch about fuzzy videos being taken out of context and making them look bad... so people get closer to ensure higher quality recordings, to which cops bitch that they are now "interfering with the investigation."

      Nice grift. Himmler would be proud.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    45. Re:sigh by Mike+Frett · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If you don't vote, the crazy people *cough* republicans *cough* (sorry =p) WILL vote and then you will have wished you had voted.

    46. Re:sigh by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      Oh, that's good, acting like voting matters.

      Voting numbers are so pathetically LOW that really you are right. But the actual REASON that voting doesn't matter is that people like YOU can't be bothered to put down the beer can and go out and vote.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    47. Re:sigh by niado · · Score: 2

      Be interesting if people started making citizen's arrests for same, but I'm not holding my breath.

      Perhaps for certain definitions of "interesting"....I don't think a citizen's arrest for a civil rights violation would hold up. Especially since the arresting "citizen" would likely need to commit a felony in the process.

    48. Re:sigh by 0111+1110 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem is it is almost never their best friend. I was told by a criminal attorney in my state that the state decided to discontinue video recording police encounters because 99.9% of the time it was losing cases for them. The video evidence was almost never in their favor. So they stopped. The number of violent, dangerous, angry, sadistic cops on the force is nothing but an embarrassment for the state. Police brutality and perjury is not just routine it is expected by almost everyone.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    49. Re:sigh by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The police already have dash cam videos and the sanctity of police testimony on their side. They don't need the protection of members of the public recording them and recordings made by members of the public that are inconvenient cannot be made to disappear.

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    50. Re:sigh by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      According to that article, at the bottom:

      Dicksinson acknowledges that users who set longer passcodes for devices can in fact make the devices far tougher to crack. âoeThe more complex the password, the longer and harder itâ(TM)s going to be to access the phone,â he says. âoeIn some cases, it takes so long to brute force that itâ(TM)s not worth doing it.â That may have been the situation, for instance, in one recent case involving the phone of Dante Dears, a paroled convict accused of running a prostitution ring known as âoePimping Hoes Dailyâ from his Android phone; The FBI, apparently unable or unwilling to crack the phone, asked Google to help in accessing it.

      I did mention that my passcode is longer than 4 digits, eh?

      :)

      I'm not saying it can't be broken...but I don't believe my local Barny Fife is going to have the tools or know how to crack my phone, and so far, I've steered clear of anything that might interest the FBI.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    51. Re:sigh by penix1 · · Score: 1

      :blockquote>I don't think anything will solve any type of police misconduct in one fell swoop, but I doubt a supreme court ruling against this crap would hurt.

      We are talking about the same SCOTUS that fucked up Citizen's United right? Are you so sure of that statement? Personally, I hope a case involving the recording of cops NEVER comes before them.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    52. Re:sigh by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      All they have to do is arrest you on trumped up charges and then they have the right to search your car and they will.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    53. Re:sigh by 0111+1110 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well after being severely beaten and nearly killed by an angry cop and nearly getting several years in prison for made up charges I am moving to somewhere very remote, with very loose gun laws (so that I can protect myself against cops), and where coming into contact with the police at all is much less likely. For me, it's either that or leaving the country. America has some of the most violent, dangerous, corrupt, and angry cops in the world. And they are both well armed and well protected with body armor. How I long for a place where cops are just normal people doing a job. Somewhere where the majority of cops are not sociopaths with no feelings of remorse and no conscience. Was there ever a time when cops in America actually had a sense of right and wrong like they often have in the movies and on TV? American cops don't even respect the very laws they are supposed to enforce. At least when it applies to themselves.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    54. Re:sigh by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2

      I think requiring video evidence for any arrest the police would like to make, particularly when someone is charged with known contempt of cop charges (like resisting arrest, assault and battery against a police officer, disorderly conduct, failure to obey an order, etc, etc) would be a good start in the right direction. Ideally police would have video evidence of everything they have claimed to have witnessed. That would make it much more difficult for them to lie about what happened as they routinely do.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    55. Re:sigh by Lord+Balto · · Score: 1

      It doesn't help that they often function as armed tax collectors, either. Do you really think those expensive radar guns are for keeping the roads safe?

    56. Re:sigh by mythosaz · · Score: 2

      They're not going to get into my phone, but they sure are going to trigger a wipe when they fail the password enough times...

      I guess they're going to succeed in destroying my videos. :( ....except the copies that automatically got uploaded to Google+ and Facebook. :)

    57. Re:sigh by Lord+Balto · · Score: 2

      There you go using "officer" and "think" in the same sentence. Police aren't hired to think. Some departments actually have maximum IQ regulations. They are hired to follow orders no matter how stupid or perverted.

    58. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyway, what are you suggesting? If not voting them out... then what? Vigilante justice? Living in the woods away from society?

      mostly complaining on the internet, then it's back to jerking off in moms basement.

      Most people that think voting doesn't change anything are really just mad that people won't do what they say.

    59. Re:sigh by RearNakedChoke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well that's comforting to know. I mean, we don't want to prosecute bad cops, only bad citizens.

    60. Re:sigh by buybuydandavis · · Score: 2

      We are talking about the same SCOTUS that fucked up Citizen's United right?

      No, we're talking about the same SCOTUS that got Citizen's United perfectly *right*, and protected the right of citizens to engage in political speech.

    61. Re:sigh by Lord+Balto · · Score: 1

      It's not the general election. It's the primary where we could actually make a difference. Start with a database of primary candidates sworn to reinstate democratic procedures, end the empire, and remove all 1984 style laws from the books.

    62. Re:sigh by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Indeed. And it's worse than that. What's frustrating about the baseless cynicism is that it only serves to justify continuing not to vote. I'm fine with people not voting, just so long as they admit it's because they're lazy and apathetic. Trying to justify it by saying "Aw, it won't do anything anyway," or "Well, there's no real difference in the candidates (why, no, I didn't vote in the primaries, why do you ask?" THAT I find annoying.

    63. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has pretty much already been done.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glik_v._Cunniffe

      But this is just local police departments flexing their muscles because they can. You may have the complete right to, but they still have the power to say screw that, quit being disorderly. Not going to stop, resisting arrest for failing to follow my first command. There is pretty much no penalty for officers that engage in this bullshit.

    64. Re:sigh by erroneus · · Score: 1

      This is our "law enforcement" at work. They make up laws to enforce.

      This kind of thing needs a SERIOUS slap-down. Did the constitution address the issue of authorities citing violation of law that doesn't exist or is not pertaining to the problem for which action was taken?

      And to tamper with evidence on top of that?

      I'm just a guy you know? If I see something going on, I am definitely going to hesitate and think about whether or not I will record it or take pictures. This is indeed a chilling effect because ordinarily, I would want to contribute to helping any given situation.

    65. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Cops knew the recording was legal. They just don't care. The goal was to harass the guy. They know they can get away with it, so they do.

    66. Re:sigh by RearNakedChoke · · Score: 1

      Stop voting for the prosecutors who lack integrity. I blame voters who don't pay any attention to the candidates for whom they vote. They vote for whichever name sounds the best.

      Honestly, how the hell I'm I supposed to know which prosecutor has integrity? I already have to know judges, city council members, school board members, propositions, I have to read the fine print on every letter, EULA, cell phone contract, bank privacy statements, etc, etc. I don't have the time to deal with every shady ass org or person that is trying to deceive me.

    67. Re:sigh by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      He thinks being a cop makes him correct.

    68. Re:sigh by RearNakedChoke · · Score: 2

      They're already making up bullshit to get away with it... what makes you think a SCOTUS ruling will stop it? They may have well charged the guy with poaching polar bears... it would have made as much sense as claiming a HIPAA violation to get him to stop video taping.

      They think there is a grey area. If SCOTUS came out with a ruling that said: "recording the police in public is 100% legal in every situation, no exceptions, and obstruction of that recording by the cops who are being recorded is a CRIMINAL offense", then yeah I think the cops would very quickly change their behavior here.

      Now, do I think SCOTUS will make such a ruling? Probably not.

    69. Re:sigh by Belial6 · · Score: 2

      You are wrong. People not voting isn't the problem at all. In fact, our problems are getting worse because too many people vote. It isn't the numbers. It is that people are told to vote whether they understand the issues or not. When people vote without knowing what they are voting for, they are at best adding noise to the system. In things like a presidential race, the added noise specifically works to re-enforce the power of the two big parties.

    70. Re:sigh by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 0

      It is that people are told to vote whether they understand the issues or not. When people vote without knowing what they are voting for, they are at best adding noise to the system

      Ah, I get it. Only those that agree with your "correct" point of view should be allowed to vote.

      Next up: Forced sterilization of the hoi polloi (it's for their own good!)...

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    71. Re:sigh by schnell · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if they WERE more like Andy Griffith their job would be less dangerous.

      Not so much. I don't recall there being movie theater shooters, drug runners, insane crackheads or a local MS-13 chapter in Mayberry. (Maybe there were gangs and I just didn't notice; on a black and white TV, you couldn't tell if Opie was wearing crip or blood colors.)

      Their job is dangerous because ... people don't support jack booted thugs.

      Citizens like you or me who are unhappy about our infringed civil liberties are not the dangers to the cops, the abovementioned groups are. Are you suggesting that they're only dangerous and violent towards the police because they are righteously indignant?

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    72. Re:sigh by desdinova+216 · · Score: 1

      maybe he meant 10 yards?

    73. Re:sigh by michrech · · Score: 1

      *CITIZENS* already have the right to engage in political speech, *even if they work for a corporation*. CORPORATE ENTITIES do not need the powers that were granted to them, which is why Citizens United was *wrong*.

      --
      bork bork bork!
    74. Re:sigh by RearNakedChoke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The police have been terrified ever since Rodney King was filmed getting his beating.

      Let's not forget, today's police are not Andy Griffith. Their job can be dangerous, and they're only human. That doesn't mean they have a right to privacy in their work. It doesn't mean they can violate their use of force policies because no one is watching. People are watching. That just means they need to follow the rules too. Understood they're not happy about it.

      To quote the police, "if the police are doing nothing illegal, they have nothing to fear from being recorded"

    75. Re:sigh by The+High+Druid · · Score: 1

      Isn't this the point where we blame video games? Or maybe just the fact that the current generation of law enforcement grew up with Lethal Weapon and Die Hard?

    76. Re:sigh by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Corporations aren't citizens. Organizations aren't citizens. Try again.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    77. Re:sigh by LVSlushdat · · Score: 0

      Say what you want about Glen Beck, but he does a segment on his radio show called "Moron Trivia" where he talks to random people called by his staff and asks four VERY simple questions to answer, for those who are NOT "low information voters".. questions like "who is the vice president?", "what is socialism?".. The terrifying part of this is that a vast majority of these people do not know the correct answers to these simple questions. One segment he did, where he asked several self-identified female Obama voters WHY they voted for him.. Their answers were very scary.. "We voted for him cuz he's cute"... ARGGGG
      THESE type of voters, plus all of the election fraud, is why we have another four years of this shitbag and his ilk...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    78. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Move to Scandinavia...

    79. Re:sigh by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      In poorer neighborhoods, the cops are generally not called. They come late, if they come at all. And the criminals know it. If the cops showed up when someone was in need, then there would be fewer in need. But no, cops just sue so they aren't responsible for enforcing the law, preventing crime, stopping crimes in progress, or arresting criminals when inconvenient.

    80. Re:sigh by iamwahoo2 · · Score: 1

      I pretty much agree, with exception to the word severe. One has to account for the fact that cops are just average joes complete with all of the emotions and ignorance that we all possess. Add to that fact that their jobs can put them in quite stressful situations and you can get what appears to be quite unsatisfactory performance at time. You would probably find that 99.9% of these video confiscation problems would be solved with the application of very mild penalties like losing a little vacation time or being forced to attend some very boring training.

    81. Re:sigh by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      If Citizen's United were ruled the other way, no citizen would have had speech infringed. Any employee or owner of any corporation may speak however they wish. However, a corporation isn't a citizen and does not have any right to use corporate resources to buy political favor.

    82. Re:sigh by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Doesn't matter. I've seen recordings of girls beaten in custody and nothing happened (sometimes a firing, but never an arrest). One was a policeman defending himself when he ordered a girl to take off her shoes and place them outside the holding cell. She kicked one off without incident, but when kicking off the second, it glanced off the officer's foot. so he sent her to the hospital for assaulting the officer. I can't find the video anymore, but it was pretty clear what happened, and that beating a girl into a bloody pulp for complying with directions.

      No need to lie, no need to destroy evidence. Just make the rules so skewed in favor of the police that the criminals are always wrong, and anyone who isn't a cop is a criminal.

    83. Re:sigh by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Well after being severely beaten and nearly killed by an angry cop and nearly getting several years in prison for made up charges I am moving to somewhere very remote, with very loose gun laws (so that I can protect myself against cops), and where coming into contact with the police at all is much less likely. For me, it's either that or leaving the country.

      Bah, I left the US before I had to put "again" at the end of that thought. I don't know why more aren't leaving. The US is bad and only getting worse.

    84. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I somehow doubt you're going to give up your lucrative Slashdot trolling career to go live in a hole, particularly when there's a good chance you're probably living in one already.

      Nice job telling half of the story too. Let me guess, you were "wrongly accused" of interfering with someone's kid, weren't you?

    85. Re:sigh by ahodgson · · Score: 1

      Yeah right. Arrest a cop. Get shot by 40 other cops 8 seconds later. Good luck with that.

    86. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A cop gets my phone...will take them more than casual effort to get into it, no?

      Actually, no.

      Generally, law enforcement is going to get into your phone pretty handily.

      Video is normally recorded to your micro-SD card, right? If they get your phone, what stops them from popping out the card, bypassing whatever security your phone has in place?

    87. Re:sigh by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Based on my experience with HIPAA, it's very likely the officer thought he was correct.

      Based on my experience with police officers, it's highly unlikely he could even spell HIPAA.

      In fact, based on my experience of your posts I'm rather surprised that you managed it.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    88. Re:sigh by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It's common knowledge that police go trolling through law books looking for anything that sounds remotely charge-able against people they don't like.

      The word is trawling, but you're giving them far too much credit. And given that the accusation appears to have been made at the time of arrest, I think it's unlikely that the officer in question was hauling around backpack containing a law library.

      They just make shit up on the spot - tell you to jump in the air, and if you don't it's "failure to obey a lawful order". Do, and they book you because they didn't tell you to come down again.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    89. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am moving to somewhere very remote, with very loose gun laws

      Vermont or Alaska, take your pick.

    90. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does, because he has a gun.

      Or rather it would, if it wasn't for the second amendment.

    91. Re:sigh by Chowderbags · · Score: 2

      Sounds a bit like saying that your fire alarm is a problem because it keeps beeping and meanwhile your house is a raging inferno.

    92. Re:sigh by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Oh, that's good, acting like voting matters.

      Voting numbers are so pathetically LOW that really you are right. But the actual REASON that voting doesn't matter is that people like YOU can't be bothered to put down the beer can and go out and vote.

      Well who are you going to vote for? Assuming you are American you have the choice between Democrat and Republican and thats pretty much it. So whats the fucking point??

      Seriously. People voting just makes them feel like they have a legitimate claim to power, thats all. See what happens if voter turnout drops below 5% and then wheres their 'legitimate' claim to power.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    93. Re:sigh by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

      "who is the vice president?"

      He's a nigger who wants to stop me owning a howitzer.

      "what is socialism?"

      Taking away my AK47 so that niggers can convert me to islam.

      Hang on, am I supposed to be giving the correct answers or what Glenn Beck thinks are the correct answers?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    94. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They do that because they're paranoid and more than a little bigoted against men. Unless of course I missed the epidemic of cops beating and shooting little children.

      Also, reinforcing that sort of sexism is going to screw children up in the long term. There's no reason to believe that a woman isn't a child molester just because she has kids with her. Strangers rarely kidnap and molest children.

    95. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, how many times have they busted you?

      Seriously, you're just as much a part of the problem as the corrupt cops are. You think you know what they're thinking, but somehow you're belief about the situation is the one that's right. If you're running into enough cops to have 95% of the cops you meet mean something, you've fucked up yourself. Most people do not encounter more than a small handful during an entire lifetime.

    96. Re:sigh by sjames · · Score: 1

      They do that because the cops are no longer interested in being understanding and taking a kid home. They want to make a federal case of it (sometimes literally) and take all sorts of actions that are likely harmful to both the parents and the children.

      They suggest a woman with children mostly because a motyher likely knows how to console a child and IS statistically less likely to be a child predator. Also because to a small child, anyone over 10 looks like an adult, but 12 year olds don't have children.

    97. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The vast majority of police killed on duty are killed by car crashes. Because they drive like idiots.

    98. Re:sigh by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Good 'suicide by cop' strategy though. Especially nice if you happen to find a cop who really is breaking the law. Use hidden cameras that immediately upload to a server. Not a bad way to go I think.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    99. Re:sigh by Yakasha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The number of violent, dangerous, angry, sadistic cops on the force is nothing but an embarrassment for the state. Police brutality and perjury is not just routine it is expected by almost everyone.

      They're not angry. They're simply psychopaths.

      People become cops because they enjoy your suffering.

      Those that become cops for other reasons often become psychopaths (Is that possible? Perhaps they simply demonstrate psychopathic behavior) as demonstrated in the much referenced Stanford Prison Experiment.

    100. Re:sigh by Yakasha · · Score: 2

      p>Citizens like you or me who are unhappy about our infringed civil liberties are not the dangers to the cops, the abovementioned groups are. Are you suggesting that they're only dangerous and violent towards the police because they are righteously indignant?

      The circle is a bit wider than that. The community distrusts the police resulting in fewer calls to deal with criminals resulting in more criminals resulting in a more dangerous area bringing more police presence which increases the likelihood of a violent confrontation between cops & criminals resulting in more agitated police resulting in incidents like Oscar Grant which causes the community as a whole to become righteously indignant and ... there you go.

    101. Re:sigh by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      I probably will leave eventually. I've lived in a number of other countries as an expat already and I like nearly all of them better than the US. But living on tourist visas and having to make visa runs every 3-6 months is a big PITA in the long run, and I would have difficulty getting a work visa in most places. This is still the only country where I have an actual right to live. Although with the rise of the DHS/TSA and the rest of the creeping police state I suppose that is more of a privilege than a right these days.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    102. Re:sigh by Yakasha · · Score: 1

      I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing corrupt cops literally getting away with murder (and every crime between). Time to bring the Blue Wall of Silence crashing down.

      I don't recall seeing your name on the ballot. Perhaps you'll be more sick and tired next election. :(

    103. Re:sigh by sjames · · Score: 2

      People like you and me are not directly dangerous to the cops, but we are much less inclined to be helpful to them either. We are also less inclined to bother calling them when we see crime (since it just results in paperwork and getting searched). Meanwhile, gangs happen because they represent the closest thing to an actual social order the kids can see. If they get in trouble and call the police, they won't get help, but will get treated like a criminal themselves. They grew up with their parents telling them no good can come of an encounter of any kind with the police (told to them by people like you and me). OTOH, if they call on their gang, they'll actually get help. Were that not the case, gangs would be less popular.

    104. Re:sigh by Nyder · · Score: 1

      So, how many times have they busted you?

      Seriously, you're just as much a part of the problem as the corrupt cops are. You think you know what they're thinking, but somehow you're belief about the situation is the one that's right. If you're running into enough cops to have 95% of the cops you meet mean something, you've fucked up yourself. Most people do not encounter more than a small handful during an entire lifetime.

      I've been arrested probably about 50 times or so, and in my experience, the cops think they know what is going on, they treat me like shit because I am a "criminal" in their eyes and don't give a fuck about me.

      One time when I was arrested the cop was on my side, because he got pissed with the security guards trying to make what i did into a big deal. He let me go, even though I did commit a crime.

      I've had cops throw away drugs they could charge me with because they didn't want to do extra paperwork.

      I've had cops lie to my face saying they are picking me up for crimes I didn't commit, when they were actually picking me up for a different crime.

      Cops do what they want, if it's suits them, in my experience.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    105. Re:sigh by Nyder · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well after being severely beaten and nearly killed by an angry cop and nearly getting several years in prison for made up charges I am moving to somewhere very remote, with very loose gun laws (so that I can protect myself against cops), and where coming into contact with the police at all is much less likely. For me, it's either that or leaving the country. America has some of the most violent, dangerous, corrupt, and angry cops in the world. And they are both well armed and well protected with body armor. How I long for a place where cops are just normal people doing a job. Somewhere where the majority of cops are not sociopaths with no feelings of remorse and no conscience. Was there ever a time when cops in America actually had a sense of right and wrong like they often have in the movies and on TV? American cops don't even respect the very laws they are supposed to enforce. At least when it applies to themselves.

      But in previous posts on slashdot you've already claimed that you got beat by cops for talking smack to them. While it sucks you got beat down, I think you should accept that you provoked it.

      I've been arrested a ton of times, I have NEVER been beaten by a cop. Why? Because I know better then to talk shit when they have the upper hand. That gets you nowhere, except beaten or dead.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    106. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think that all cops long ago were safe and lived like Andy Griffith, then you are stupid as fuckall. Being a cop has always been dangerous, and it is less dangerous now, if you bother to look at statistics.

    107. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      These monsters serve your masters, NOT you.

      The 'brotherhood' of fellow officers GARBAGE is a carefully creating program of psychological conditioning designed to exploit tribal hard-wiring found within the Human brain. Elites needing uniformed thugs to protect them against ordinary citizens, and to keep the ordinary citizens in their place, always use this tactic.

      Read some history. Sports exist for the same purpose. Creating tribal loyalty to something as abstract and pointless as a 'sports team', so that people willingly practise this mental conditioning, and expect to see it deployed elsewhere in society.

      Remember, to a cop, the most evil thing a fellow cop can do is to hurt a brother in ANY way, regardless of circumstance. Cops take a blood-oath to cover up crimes of other cops. Bent cops are only ever punished when outside political forces become unbearable- never because of inside pressure.

      In reality, good cops are ROGUE cops, and can only exist long term in small scale police forces where the local citizens constantly act as a constant pressure against cop abuse.

    108. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd love to know WHO to vote for?

      Democracy sucks. Just because dictators suck too doesn't means our system works. There are more psychologically dysfunctional persons and people without a clue than people who can vote. We have zero chance of this system working in any sane way.

    109. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your cops are frequently mass raping, mass torturing, mass murdering scum from one of America's ever growing list of battlefields across this planet. Obama has stated that the best cop is someone who has spent years murdering the 'enemies' of the USA during their time in your armed forces.

      Americans believe in an hilarious fantasy. Namely that a psychopathic POS from the US armed services draws a distinction between harming citizens in, say, Iraq, and the USA. The ONLY thing that concerns the POS is the possibility of punishment. In Iraq, he/she had total immunity to rape, torture and murder. When this POS joins the police force in the States, he/she only thinks "will I get away with this".

      Now, what do you Yanks allow your police to get away with? In the right city, just about anything. Rape- check. Torture- check. Murder- check. And these monsters you idiots are likely to call "our brave heroes in uniform" love nothing more when they can get away with giving it to some middle-class victim. Most of the time this is still risky, but their is nothing more your ex-army steroid enhanced cop loves than giving the beat-down to some middle-class man or woman.

      Mind you, in fairness, you idiot Yanks have always allowed your police to treat everyone else like garbage, in the service of your ruling families.

    110. Re:sigh by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Ah, I've got permanent residency and will have citizenship in about 2 years (well, about 1.5 years now, but I haven't counted the days). After that, I may try to get another, from an EU country. Australia, US, and EU tri-citizenship is about the most flexible and useful trio. US and OZ will allow it, but there are some EU places that won't (like Germany), so I have to pay attention when I shop citizenships there. UK ended the points-based skilled worker program. If I'd known they were going to do that, I'd have gotten UK first, OZ hasn't changed their program.

    111. Re:sigh by Larryish · · Score: 1

      Why do they need to be granted the "right" when they already possess the "ability" to influence policy?

    112. Re:sigh by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      This issue actually came up 2 years ago at Purdue University. A reporter for the local paper started to record a very similar situation.

      The police finally issued a formal apology. But the fact that it was even an issue scares me.

    113. Re:sigh by Ambiguous+Coward · · Score: 1

      The great thing is that, at least in some states (AK for instance) by refusing to allow the officer to search your car, you're giving him reason to impound it as evidence so it can be searched at their leisure and without your presence. Fun, eh?

      --
      Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
    114. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct, idiots who don't even have to pay for their own insurance.

      And in many places (such as Seattle), the idiots have a union powerful enough to get them out of any trouble short of setting off an unauthorized nuclear detonation.

    115. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Their job can be dangerous"

      Bullshit. http://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2009/safety_and_health/
      Want danger? Be a farmer. Policing is a job for pussies.

    116. Re:sigh by am+2k · · Score: 1

      They'll make up rules and laws that don't exist if you are doing something they don't like because there are no repercussions when they lie to you.

      Yes, in my city there was a case where peaceful protesters were charged by the police with walking the wrong way in a one-way street.

    117. Re:sigh by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      The real problem is that SCOTUS can't actually DO anything to PREVENT this. They can only tell the government to stop doing something... After years and years of court cases.

      The cops can bust your shit up, and throw a bunch of false charges at you... You'll blow thousands of dollars on lawyers, maybe plead to some misdemeanor only to have the real charges thrown out. Law abiding men can't be ruled... Law has become like the Catholic church... They can make any action a sin... Or make your motive for doing a good thing a sin.

      Nobody will stand up and call Bullshit, when an "officer believes" they can creatively write up these events. It used to be called LYING... and lying was INTENT to commit other crimes. Now they get to go "Claude Frollo" and get away with it.

    118. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are talking about the same SCOTUS that fucked up Citizen's United right?

      No, we're talking about the same SCOTUS that got Citizen's United perfectly *right*, and protected the right of citizens to engage in political speech.

      Which begs the question ... if Dred Scott proved persons were property and CItizens United found property to be persons, does that mean when corporations merge it's a same-sex union?

    119. Re:sigh by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You'd have to ask the "money is a person" and "money is speech" crowd.

    120. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    121. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit man where do you live? I live in the bay area and my Mother is CHP(highway cop, for those who dont know). That being said, I've also been beaten and tazed for stopping an undercover officer from kneeing a young man in the head after he running from the crowd. When they brought me to the back, the officer who questioned me after felt plenty of compassion for the treatment i received. He was actually let me back into the rave(POPsicle 2008-2009?) to find my shoe.

      So i would like to know? what were the details of your severe beating? Why was this angry cop not fired and why did you not sue the department? Im sure you could get a petition to fund your case.

    122. Re:sigh by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      So you install an app that can remotely WIPE your phone. That will stop them in their tracks.

    123. Re:sigh by dissy · · Score: 1

      Unless of course I missed the epidemic of cops beating and shooting little children.

      Yes
      you
      fucking
      did!

    124. Re:sigh by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      Another thing to think about is:

      Autonomous vehicles are going to change the entire traffic enforcement game. I mean, the car will be a cautious driver that won't speed, won't do boneheaded things. So why do we need traffic cops at that point?

      Then legalize drugs and the interdiction force becomes unnecessary. So you need a small number of cops to investigate murders, robberies, etc. That will do wonders for municipal budgets all over the U.S.

      So what do you do with all the cops you're going to have to lay off? Firing squads perhaps?

    125. Re:sigh by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I left out the "kick shoe" in my searches. And obviously didn't remember the details flawlessly.

    126. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And likely while talking to others without a hands-free kit ;).

    127. Re:sigh by TheLink · · Score: 1

      I guess that's another factor to consider when relocating the Ministry of Silly Walks.

      --
    128. Re:sigh by 0111+1110 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I never said it was unprovoked. It was provoked. I swore right back at the thing. Are you saying that makes what it did to me okay?

      Right after the words left my mouth I knew I was in deep shit. In fact, at the time I thought it might actually be illegal. Only later did I learn that it is perfectly legal (although suicidal) to do so. I had no idea how truly suicidal it was and almost died because of it. I'll also have to live with memory impairment for the rest of my life because of those two words.

      I had had very little contact with cops before (mainly lots of speeding tickets) and, although I already hated them and knew they were bullies/thugs I guess I assumed they had at least some respect for the laws they enforced. I watched too much Miami Vice and other cop shows I guess. I knew that stuff wasn't real, but maybe it subtly distorted my view of what real cops were like. Real cops don't have principles, don't care about right or wrong or abstract ideas like justice.

      The essential mistake I made was in assuming that they were just regular guys who might think such roadblocks were bullshit. That they were just doing a job. I should never have tried to complain to it in the first place. Now I know that they are not truly human. Not like you and I. They are animals. Just mindless things who understand only violence. Trying to talk to one is like trying to talk to a hungry shark or crocodile. Not a lot of point to it and it's likely to end badly.

      So due to all those faulty assumptions, when it called me an asshole I swore right back at the thing just like I would if anyone else swore at me. I simply would never have imagined in my wildest dreams that it would try to kill me just for saying two words to it. And then file false charges against me as if the strangling and beating I received were not sufficient punishment. I had never before met another human being that was quite that twisted and evil and violent. It was a tough lesson. I would never treat a cop like a human being ever again and avoiding contact with them at any cost is my priority.

      I've been arrested a ton of times, I have NEVER been beaten by a cop. Why? Because I know better then to talk shit when they have the upper hand. That gets you nowhere, except beaten or dead.

      Yeah. I realize that now, but I didn't know it at the time. I'm just an aging, overweight computer geek. I didn't have that kind of street wisdom. The way I thought about cops seems to be pretty common here on slashdot. It's a result of ignorance, movies, and a lack of real exposure to cops.

      I see the same ignorant assumptions all the time here and after my experience I made a decision to try to at least give some prior warning to other geeks like me who may not realize how indistinguishable real life cops are from the most violent criminals. So I try to make at least one post in every police brutality thread I happen to notice so other isolated computer geeks can at least hear about the truth of what cops are really like. They may not believe the warning, but at least they have the chance to avoid what happened to me.

      When I spent the night in jail after being arrested I noticed everyone else in the holding cells referred to the cop jailers as "sir". That gave me pause. When I thought about why they would do that and what they might know that I didn't know it definitely worried me. AFAIK they were all just drunk drivers (and yeah, they were really drunk). So I'm not sure how they came about this wisdom, but I respected it. Although I couldn't bring myself address them this way myself. I was terrified of them. All of them. But I just couldn't bring myself to call them "sir".

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    129. Re:sigh by Belial6 · · Score: 2

      You are projecting. I never said what people should vote for. Just that they should know what it is they are voting for. People doing the equivalent of flipping a coin is not helpful. It is harmful. Random voting allows those who introduce laws to game the system. Random voting combined with a steady at stream of "your wasting your vote" propaganda allows political parties to game the system.

      Calling someone a bigot because the are against coin flip voting doesn't put you in a good light.

    130. Re:sigh by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2

      Just remember that not all of us support our adventures in overthrowing smaller countries that can't defend themselves. There were huge protests here about some of the wars. Not as big as the protests in Britain maybe, but still big.

      You raise an interesting point though. When our soldiers come back from raping and murdering innocent women and children abroad it probably seems only natural for them to continue their 'work' here as police officers. So I guess you could say we get as good as we give. If you think those animals who do that stuff in a war treat us any differently when they get home you are wrong. Guys come back from a place like Abu Ghraib or Gitmo where they learned to enjoy torture and habitual, casual murder. Then they come back here and get a job in law enforcement and do the same to us. Karma. Payback is a bitch.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    131. Re:sigh by Toonol · · Score: 0

      So... you're a criminal. Got it.

    132. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the state decided to discontinue video recording police encounters because 99.9% of the time it was losing cases for them.

      Citation please? You'd be doing everyone a huge favor - statistics like this could be extremely useful for fighting exactly this kind of corruption. At the very least, what state is this?

    133. Re:sigh by mpe · · Score: 1

      We need legislation that not only enshrines the right to record any and all public officials, but adds severe consequences to the destruction of evidence.

      Considering that destruction of evidence (and concealing crimes) is undoubtedly already against the law the real issue is one of lack of enforcement. Effectivly dealing with police who break the law is not a simple problem. About the only possible way of doing things would be to have at least two independent sets of "police" who can only investigate and arrest "cops". (There needs to be at least two since history has show that no police force will effectivly police themselves.)

    134. Re:sigh by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 1

      There's no need to malign idiots.

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    135. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we're voting in so many new laws that it is flat out impossible for any congresscritter to have read all the laws he votes on, never mind having considered, researched and understood the consequences. Consequently most laws are approved based on lobbying effort not based on the conscience of congrescritters (even assuming they have one).

      As long as that doesn't change voting has both in congress and to put people in congress has no use whatsoever, as it doesn't have any real affect on what laws get approved.

    136. Re:sigh by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      Come on to Ireland, I can go for months without even sight of a Garda.

    137. Re:sigh by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying it can't be broken...but I don't believe my local Barny Fife is going to have the tools or know how to crack my phone, and so far, I've steered clear of anything that might interest the FBI.

      Stay out of Michigan, then. Not just because it's become practically a 3rd-world hellhole with packs of wild dogs and bears wandering around in Detroit as nature reclaims it like it did the Mayan and Inca cities/temples, but because of the MSP.

      http://apple.slashdot.org/story/11/04/19/2231240/michigan-police-could-search-cell-phones-during-traffic-stops

      A US Department of Justice test of the CelleBrite UFED used by Michigan police found the device could grab all of the photos and videos off of an iPhone within one-and-a-half minutes. The device works with 3000 different phone models and can even defeat password protections. 'Complete extraction of existing, hidden, and deleted phone data, including call history, text messages, contacts, images, and geotags,' a CelleBrite brochure explains regarding the device's capabilities."

      A Google search will provide other sources as well. Wasn't able to find anything about the practice being halted with a quick search.

      Hopefully, the ACLU will put up enough of a fuss to have the practice nixed without a warrant signed by a judge. But, I'm not counting on it.

      I wonder if you could open up a phone (not an iPhone, obviously), add a voltage multiplier circuit, and wire it to the data pin on the connector so that it fries their "slurper" device if connected? I imagine at the very least, one could disconnect the data pin so that the "slurper" can't make a connection, and at least force them to have to come up with a reason to seize the phone and take it to a lab, rather than force a quick roadside "data dump" that they can later deny and/or alter their story about the facts surrounding the incident.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    138. Re:sigh by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      The police have been terrified ever since Rodney King was filmed getting his beating.

      The stupid fix is to attack people filming police behaving badly. Not only does it violate the law; it also creates more 'noise' and doesn't very little to hide the misconduct from the public.

      The right fix is of course for the police to stay within reasonable limits when performing their duty. Then there's nothing to hide and recordings will only show professional policemen doing their job exactly as they're supposed to.

      How hard can it be to understand this?

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    139. Re:sigh by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Might it be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXbUatPc-A ?

      Warning: This video is violent and disturbing.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    140. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dash cams only point in the direction the car is pointing.
      "Sactity of police testimony"???? WTF is that? Are you trying to say that a police officer is unable to LIE?????????

      "They don't need the protection of members of the public recording them"
      Yes, actually, they do. Without corroborating evidence, it's your word against theirs, and 'innocent until proven guilty' means the person should go free.
      Unless you want to live in a totalitarian regime?

      "and recordings made by members of the public that are inconvenient cannot be made to disappear."
      Ahh...so you ARE advocating a totalitarian regime!
      if the recording is inconvenient...tehn some police officer was not doing his job properly. And the whole idea of trying to make these recordings disappear is disgusting, reprehensible, and completely and totally anti-American.

      No wonder you people want the citizenry disarmed.

    141. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not going to get into my phone, but they sure are going to trigger a wipe when they fail the password enough times...

      I guess they're going to succeed in destroying my videos. :( ....except the copies that automatically got uploaded to Google+ and Facebook. :)

      mythosaz, you have been found in Contempt of Court for your refusal to disclose your Google+ and Facebook passwords, and will rot in jail with no possibility of a trial or hearing until such a time as you decide taking it up the ass isn't much fun.

    142. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sounds like we have entered a police state. if these people want socilizem why dont they go to a solicest country, they wont be missed.

    143. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For fraks sake will you finally make a citizens arrest on that cop? Put him in your car and drive to the courthouse. Deliver him to the first prosecutor or judge you see.

    144. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SCOTUSwill not rule, they love the idea of the police state. Just imagine how much their stock in prisons will go up if all the taxpayers were in the cells working nothing. Imagine how little the rented out slaves would be worth.My god, the money they could make. Remember its just a little of your liberty they need. You could just imagine the confiscation squads out there, taking away your internet connected phone, deleting what they want. After all, they would get to say then what you can think. Freedom? its just a dream, of those that cannot afford to be the bully. Remember its not survival of the fittest, or the fastest. But the most beastly.

    145. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not alone, friend.

    146. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Posse Comitatis act of 1878 prohibits U.S. Military forces from police actions within the boundaries of the United States. This means that the civilian police must act in their stead. Unfortunately, this has meant the police force has turned into a paramilitary organization. Criminals have taken advantage of this; once they reach that threshold of tactics and equipment which could only be countered by military weapons and tactics, they are practically free-and-clear in the U.S., unless there happens to be a waiting S.W.A.T. team nearby.

      People want the police force to be the friendly, cheerful, helps-kids-out, kind of organization. And then turn around and want the police to be powerful like the military when criminals use overwhelming force. Folks, you cannot have it both ways. Nobody wants to let the 'bad guys' get away, but if you need military force to stop the criminals, they have already won the battle.

      We continue to escalate the situation, turning the police force into the military, with this belief that no-one should ever have anything bad happen to them. We think there is some way to counter all bad things, and so the criminals will continue to find ways to overcome this 'obstacle'.

      Personally, I would rather have the police go back to being polite and helpful, and demilitarized, and have them call the military (under direction of the police) when you have armored thugs robbing banks, or cartels running heavy ordnance across the borders.

    147. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well that's comforting to know. I mean, we don't want to prosecute bad cops, only bad citizens.

      If only we had sarcastic mod points, I would give them to you sir. Who police the police. It is time, in this modern age that bad people wherever and whoever they are should be punish equally like a third grade citizen. Police behavior that endangers society should be not tolerated anymore.

    148. Re:sigh by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing corrupt cops literally getting away with murder (and every crime between). Time to bring the Blue Wall of Silence crashing down.

      I don't recall seeing your name on the ballot. Perhaps you'll be more sick and tired next election. :(

      WTF are you on about? What ballot? You mean the presidential election ballot, that only millionaires get on to, and only millionaires in one of the 'boys clubs' ever wins? That ballot?

      So, in other words, what you're saying here is that unless a person is a bona fide candidate for U.S. President, they have no right to bitch about the fucked-up practices of the police?

      What a moronic, counter productive attitude to have.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    149. Re:sigh by luther349 · · Score: 1

      cops are underpaid overworked people working a job you can get killed in at anytime kinda like the army but with far less pay. they tend to get cussed out spat on and disrespected they deal with drunk drivers druggys domestics and violent crimes daily. lets not forget yours where you have a city that does roadblocks just to catch traffic offenders and drunks just for ticket income wasting everyone's time that could be spent elsewhere. all that said they knew all this when they took the job and defiantly had no right to beat you for calling him a name.

    150. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Geez, dude. What state are you from? Remind me not to go there.

    151. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, police officers are just better at whining about how they shouldn't be filmed.

      FTFY

      Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that police work is extremely, inherently dangerous is an idiot. I've never heard of anybody killing a roofer or a pilot merely because of their job.

      Most (not all) of those jobs leave safety almost entirely within the bounds of competence. Police work is always dangerous, and cannot ever be otherwise.

      Ever hear the phrase "toot your own horn"? I say, let them.

    152. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a two way street.

      The more we treat them like "jack booted thugs", the less likely they are to become anything else, either individually or collectively.

      (Hard Truth #27)

    153. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a byproduct of their conditioning. They're taught to always have a "command presence". If you sound like you're in charge, and you act like you're in charge, generally people will recognize you as being in charge. For a police officer in the middle of a crisis, this DOES let them save lives. It is an important part of their role.

      One of the drawbacks to this: people can't stand being challenged. If you're going to be in charge, you can't easily tolerate being questioned. It isn't a hubris thing, it's a psychology thing, and it runs deep.

      They teach them to always be in charge, but not how to admit to error with grace. Some learn it on their own. Others become bullies.

    154. Re:sigh by Yakasha · · Score: 0

      I don't recall seeing your name on the ballot. Perhaps you'll be more sick and tired next election. :(

      WTF are you on about? What ballot? You mean the presidential election ballot, that only millionaires get on to, and only millionaires in one of the 'boys clubs' ever wins? That ballot? So, in other words, what you're saying here is that unless a person is a bona fide candidate for U.S. President, they have no right to bitch about the fucked-up practices of the police? What a moronic, counter productive attitude to have.

      No prick, I was not saying that at all. Get your cock out of your cunt and take some anger management classes.

    155. Re:sigh by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I saw the original footage years ago, but not the news story on it.

      The "real" issue is that the cop is claiming it wasn't assault and he was just defending himself after her shoe hit him and his response was reasonable. The other cop in the room restrained the incapacitated 15 year old girl, and not the other cop. If not for the video, this would be another case he said she said, and, of course, the cop always wins that, because they are such kind and gently, upstanding members of society.

      Gone are the times when police joined to help, and now it's a lot of ex-military, with a military mindset.

    156. Re:sigh by dcollins · · Score: 1

      "the accusation appears to have been made at the time of arrest"

      False. Both summary and TFA say that the police statement at time of arrest was that the video was being held as evidence in the matter of the original call. A day later when he visited the police station: still no charge. Only a week after that was he told that he was being charged with anything.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    157. Re:sigh by Archenoth · · Score: 1

      I was told by a criminal attorney in my state that the state decided to discontinue video recording police encounters because 99.9% of the time it was losing cases for them. The video evidence was almost never in their favor. So they stopped.

      That's terrible. Not because they were losing cases because of it, but rather because they stopped when they were getting too much negative evidence about them.

      Not recording abuse because the abuser is from a particular group is just wrong. That's pretty much giving them permission to be horrible people.

      --
      The arch foe.
    158. Re:sigh by sjames · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, for civilians, the cost of that could be incarceration or death. (Hard Truth #28)

    159. Re:sigh by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      So you install an app that can remotely WIPE your phone. That will stop them in their tracks.

      Do you know what would happen to you if you remote wiped a phone the police had taken as evidence? You'd likely be charged with one or more felonies -- and then things would begin to get quite serious.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    160. Re:sigh by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      Well - it all depends. In fact a lot of the wipe apps can be triggered by too many incorrect password attempts. But the app I have on my phone lets me wipe from remote. Let them try to charge me when they barge into my phone without a warrant.

    161. Re:sigh by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      I don't recall seeing your name on the ballot. Perhaps you'll be more sick and tired next election. :(

      WTF are you on about? What ballot? You mean the presidential election ballot, that only millionaires get on to, and only millionaires in one of the 'boys clubs' ever wins? That ballot? So, in other words, what you're saying here is that unless a person is a bona fide candidate for U.S. President, they have no right to bitch about the fucked-up practices of the police? What a moronic, counter productive attitude to have.

      No prick, I was not saying that at all. Get your cock out of your cunt and take some anger management classes.

      So, instead of expounding on your previous, exceedingly vague statement, thus giving clarity and allowing for a mature discussion, you decide to respond with a worthless, ad hominem attack, like some petulant adolescent who just got his crayons taken away for doodling on the walls.

      And you have the nerve to say I''m a prick. Ever looked in a mirror?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    162. Re:sigh by lecoupdejarnac · · Score: 1

      We are talking about the same SCOTUS that fucked up Citizen's United right?

      No, we're talking about the same SCOTUS that got Citizen's United perfectly *right*, and protected the right of corporations and anonymous political organizations with untraceable funding to engage in political speech.

      Fixed that for you.

    163. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A ball-peen hammer works well. Remember, they don't want to use the video evidence, they want to destroy it.

    164. Re:sigh by nobodie · · Score: 1

      that this has to be commented on just shows that there are not enough (if any) people of color on this site. Anyone growing up black in the US can tell you that the cops are totally out of control.

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    165. Re:sigh by Occams · · Score: 1

      I have been well prepared for cops by my Catholic education. The Christian Brothers make American cops seem like wimps. That is the only aspect of life that those thugs prepared me for.

      --
      Heavy is the head that wears the tinfoil hat.
    166. Re:sigh by Darby · · Score: 1

      So you need a small number of cops to investigate *the greatly reduced number of* murders, robberies, etc. *due to the removal of drug laws which are the primary cause of violent crime in our society*.

      ETFY
      (Enhanced that for you).

    167. Re:sigh by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      Thank you very much. There will still be things like fraud, etc. to investigate but more a detective squad than a reactive police force.

    168. Re:sigh by Occams · · Score: 1

      In Australia we get fined if we don't vote. In the USA you get George W Bush if you don't vote. I prefer our system.

      --
      Heavy is the head that wears the tinfoil hat.
    169. Re:sigh by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that police work is extremely, inherently dangerous is an idiot.

      That would be me, then.

      I've never heard of anybody killing a roofer or a pilot merely because of their job.

      That's not relevant. The point is, if I take any of those other jobs, I am more likely to be injured or killed on the job than I am if I become a cop.

      Police work is always dangerous, and cannot ever be otherwise.

      The statistics say otherwise.

      Ever hear the phrase "toot your own horn"? I say, let them.

      That's part of the problem, actually. Most of those other jobs (except for pilots, I suppose) don't involve using one's ego as a power tool. Tireless self-promotion on the part of police PR departments has led us to hold cops to a lower standard of behavior and performance rather than a higher one, as would be more appropriate.

    170. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't prosecute bad citizens,
      you beat the citizens who won't obey nearly to death,
      then charge them

      gangsters are gangsters

      some police operate as criminal gang/sters
      good cops know they gonna die if they try making right..

      fact of life

      how u gonna change it?

      captain obvious

    171. Re:sigh by Darby · · Score: 1


      So you install an app that can remotely WIPE your phone. That will stop them in their tracks.

      No.

      *They* are the ones who want to wipe your phone so there is no evidence of their crimes.

      Your plan hurts you and helps the bad guys.

    172. Re:sigh by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      Well, I looked at it solely from the fact you may have incriminating evidence on the phone. That being said, there are also apps like OpenWatch that automatically upload on the sly. So if you're concerned about the videos being wiped by the Po-Po install the app.

    173. Re:sigh by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 1

      My god you are dumb.

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    174. Re:sigh by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      The cop who beat me was getting paid around 7 times what I make. And that night he was making time and a half. Seems like pretty good money for just beating the shit out of a defenseless geek and mainly just standing around a lot.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    175. Re:sigh by DirtyLiar · · Score: 1

      The problem is it is almost never their best friend. I was told by a criminal attorney in my state that the state decided to discontinue video recording police encounters because 99.9% of the time it was losing cases for them. The video evidence was almost never in their favor. So they stopped. The number of violent, dangerous, angry, sadistic cops on the force is nothing but an embarrassment for the state. Police brutality and perjury is not just routine it is expected by almost everyone.

      All the more reason to record ALL interactions with the police.

      --

      THINK! It's patriotic

    176. Re:sigh by DirtyLiar · · Score: 1

      Seems to me the guy could sue for vandalism (for the deletion of the video), and if they claim that there was no video and win, then sue for false arrest and abuse of power. Because if the video didn't exist, then they had no right to confiscate the camera, and had no legitimate reason the arrest him .

      --

      THINK! It's patriotic

    177. Re:sigh by DirtyLiar · · Score: 1

      I think he was being sarcastic.

      --

      THINK! It's patriotic

    178. Re:sigh by Iamthecheese · · Score: 1

      So it's his fault when the police abuse their authority? Whether what he did is wise or not such an action is absolutely unacceptable and a regime that allows it is likewise unacceptable.

      --
      If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    179. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really hope you can get yourself to some counseling. I feel for your harrowing experience and no one deserves that. The feelings you have about moving away from society and only feeling safe through use of a gun are not normal or healthy. I hope you find a path to come to peace and avoid a tragedy to yourself and others. There is help out there.

    180. Re:sigh by Yakasha · · Score: 1

      So, instead of expounding on your previous, exceedingly vague statement, thus giving clarity and allowing for a mature discussion,

      Interesting. And what part of "WTF are you on about?" is inviting a "mature discussion"? Cursing? Putting words in my mouth and then calling my attitude "moronic and counter-productive"? Is that what you call a mature discussion in your school? Cause that is not how we adults do things in the workplace, courts, or government. You'll probably find that kind of b.s. is not recommended in anger management classes either.

      And you have the nerve to say I''m a prick.

      Absolutely kid. Act like a prick, get called a prick. Next time, if you want a mature discussion, try using your big boy words. Act mature. That means asking for clarification when something flies over your head instead of flying off the handle and insulting people or what you assume is their belief.

    181. Re:sigh by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      What's your obsession with anger management classes? A bit of transference, I presume?

      Look, dude, you invited the responses you received when you made the half-assed, idiotic comment about ballots and elections, in a discussion that had nothing to do with the aforementioned topic. If you're going to respond to people with snarky nonsense, you should expect that you will not be treated well, especially with those of us who refuse to suffer fools gladly. In short, don't stand in the kitchen if you can't take the heat.

      For the record, nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to say something stupid and nonsensical, nor did anyone force you to continue to defend your stupid and nonsensical comment via continually escalating stupidity and childishness. You chose to engage in this conversation of your own volition, and are just as guilty as you claim I am for fostering immaturity, so don't even try to pull that victimized, reversal-of-position bullshit on me.

      FYI, you're no more innocent for your part in this admittedly moronic debate than I am; it takes two to tango, after all.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    182. Re:sigh by Yakasha · · Score: 1

      What's your obsession with anger management classes? A bit of transference, I presume?

      Just continuing with the same analogy. Didn't want to confuse you again.

      Look, dude, you invited the responses you received when you made the half-assed, idiotic comment about ballots and elections, in a discussion that had nothing to do with the aforementioned topic.

      Sorry I assumed you had the ability to think about what I was saying before you respond. I also assumed you were not the anger prone type to assume the worst and attack somebody that comments on your "Im sick and tired but not doing anything about it" whining. I'm also sorry you think ballots and elections have nothing to do with government and police.

      If you're going to respond to people with snarky nonsense,

      Work on your sense of humor. Try watching some stand-up. Maybe fukung or xkcd. There is a variety out there to choose from. But mostly try laughing at yourself. You whined, you got called on it, it hit too close to home so you jumped on me. Your problem there, not mine. Next time, instead of escalating to attacks on imagined "moronic and counter-productive" beliefs, you should reply with something humorous.

      For the record, nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to say something stupid and nonsensical

      There you go with the anger again. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to be an ass, insulting and cursing like a brat. Nothing stupid or nonsensical about my comment. Why do you deny the connection between griping about government and running for office? Most people that want to change government behavior vote or run for office.

      nor did anyone force you to continue to defend your stupid and nonsensical comment

      I didn't defend my statement, I just called you a prick, because you were being a prick. In fact you bitched about me not expanding on my statement, you don't remember?

      via continually escalating stupidity and childishness.

      Childish, yes. Stupid... well Kettle, I'm going to have to disagree there. I think my responses have been far more clever than your frothing-mouth curse-laden rants.

      You chose to engage in this conversation of your own volition, and are just as guilty as you claim I am for fostering immaturity, so don't even try to pull that victimized, reversal-of-position bullshit on me.

      eh? There you go again trying to put your limited thought processes on me. I did not claim innocence of immaturity. I absolutely responded in kind. One of my many faults. What I was doing was sarcastically trolling your laughably hypocritical mentioning of a "mature discussion" between insults and swearing as I currently believe you are an angry prick.

      FYI, you're no more innocent for your part in this admittedly moronic debate than I am; it takes two to tango, after all.

      Well I'm glad I taught you something. Assuming you now know that mature discussions require 2 as well?

    183. Re:sigh by CaptQuark · · Score: 1

      Wow. What a poor way to paint our veterans with an overly broad brush. You assume every returning veteran coming back from overseas has turned into some sort of psychopath and is looking for some way to continue this deranged behavior?

      I will assume some veterans come home and become police officers, but I also assume the MAJORITY of police officers have never served in the military. The training and discipline our soldiers learn sticks with them and thousands come home to return to their jobs as mechanics, programmers, supervisors, and other mainstream jobs.

      To say all bad police officers must be maladjusted soldiers is a huge disservice to our veterans.

    184. Re:sigh by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      This here poaching a pola bears has to stop.

      I prefer my polar bear broiled, not poached.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    185. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The police have been terrified ever since Rodney King was filmed getting his beating.

      Let's not forget, today's police are not Andy Griffith. Their job can be dangerous, and they're only human. That doesn't mean they have a right to privacy in their work. It doesn't mean they can violate their use of force policies because no one is watching. People are watching. That just means they need to follow the rules too. Understood they're not happy about it.

      Not all police... But face it there aren't to many that can stand up on their own worth. if they could wouldn't they welcome film!
      So instead of being a good citizen helper collection evidence the photo person is a criminal.

      It doesn't take much of a IQ to figure out 1=1 makes 2, and the fact the police are afraid of film makes them crooked!

      We have a country that hides from the truth.... (Bradly Manning comes to mind) and punk cops are right in there looking to be president

  2. Destruction of evidence and private property. by MozeeToby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Supposedly the evidence was deleted from the camera while in police custody.

    Fixed that for ya.

    1. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Mitreya · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Supposedly the evidence was deleted from the camera while in police custody.

      Fixed that for ya.

      Well, at least he can no longer be charged without any evidence, right? Or are they trying to charge him with HIPAA violation without a video that he allegedly recorded?

      Seriously, when did it become acceptable that evidence can just disappear in police custody? I know it is not the same as 11 (or was it 17?) police cruiser cameras malfunctioning simultaneously but still.

    2. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do as I say, not as I do. As long as government is founded on coercive authority, "do as I say, not as I do" will forever be the key premise of government (i.e. you can't have your cake and eat it too.)

    3. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Supposedly the evidence was deleted from the camera while in police custody.

      This is obviously a case of the police not knowing the law (shocker, I know). I think the officers meant well enough -- I mean, how would you like the worst day of your life being thrown up on YouTube by some paparazzi? But they handled this very badly. I would be willing to bet that if the police had simply approached the guy and said, "Look man, this guy's had a rough night and he doesn't need video of it showing up on the internet. Unless you think there's a crime happening here, could you please delete the footage? I think this guy deserves a little respect," that the guy would have complied. Unless of course he's a total douche, in which case that's what disorderly conduct is for, and the police, while still wrong, could have simply taken him to jail, had his possessions surrendered, and then deleted the footage and released him after booking.

      There are good ways, bad ways, and terrible ways, to handle these sorts of issues. I think it's obvious here which one they picked.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    4. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      tampered with, destroyed, deleted, obstructed by conspiracy you say?

      In a manner in which they have institutionally committed multiple felonies that would be eligible under RICO you say?

      Yeah, good luck getting a fucking prosecutor to do their job.

      The US needs a citizen commission of prosecutors eligible to bypass prosecutorial 'discretion' with all of the normal assistance and good faith a defendant representing themself would get.

    5. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      I mean, how would you like the worst day of your life being thrown up on YouTube by some paparazzi?

      Who said the guy was going to post it on YouTube? Taping the cops is an excellent precaution that I'd like all citizens to get into the habit of doing, but unless they do something bad there's no need to post the vid.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    6. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by dcollins · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Unless of course he's a total douche, in which case that's what disorderly conduct is for..."

      Disorderly conduct is not for being a total douche. Oh you fine fascist boot-licker, you.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    7. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1, Insightful

      in which case that's what disorderly conduct is for

      People doing/saying things that you don't like, apparently.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    8. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by JeanCroix · · Score: 1

      ... the guy would have complied. Unless of course he's a total douche, in which case that's what disorderly conduct is for, and the police, while still wrong, could have simply taken him to jail, had his possessions surrendered, and then deleted the footage and released him after booking.

      Wait, you consider that a better scenario than what actually happened?

    9. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by girlintraining · · Score: 0

      People doing/saying things that you don't like, apparently.

      Actually, if you bother to read the text of your average disorderly conduct statute, you'll find it's pretty vague and amounts to "disturbing the peace" or being a nuisance. It's used as a catch-all by police to get rid of someone causing trouble, but not necessarily causing damage or anything overtly illegal. As such, it's also usually a petty misdemeanor, meaning it doesn't show up on most criminal background checks (doesn't affect employment). Most of the time, the charges are dropped or "continued for dismissal" which is basically the judge saying "If you don't do anything stupid for the next N months, I'll dismiss the charges."

      Now, you can get angry, call me a "boot licking facist" like the another poster did, or you can recognize that the main duty of law enforcement is to protect the peace and maintain the standards of their community. Maybe we've drifted from that, but that's a topic for another day. In this case... the police officer may have just wanted to give the poor bastard being hauled away in an ambulance some privacy and the camera-toting citizen decided to give some attitude over an otherwise polite request. The article doesn't say.

      I give people the benefit of the doubt, even police officers. But, don't let my middle of the road approach stop you (or anyone else) from having a king sized bitch fest over police brutality and trolololo all that.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    10. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by davydagger · · Score: 1

      sure, he still has the right to film.

    11. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by admdrew · · Score: 1

      Who said the guy was going to post it on YouTube?

      Sounds like you missed the point of girlintraining's post. Cops often have to operate with a "worse case" mentality when confronted with unknown people in fast-moving situations.

    12. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by admdrew · · Score: 1

      I'd disagree; I read girlintraining's use of "total douche" to refer to someone being intentionally and legally disorderly. Otherwise the guy would just be partially douchey.

    13. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      you'll find it's pretty vague and amounts to "disturbing the peace" or being a nuisance.

      Exactly what I suspected, then.

      or you can recognize that the main duty of law enforcement is to protect the peace and maintain the standards of their community.

      I don't think that the police harassing people for such a thing fulfills the first goal. The second goal is extremely ambiguous, so I don't care for it. In fact, the first can be ambiguous as well.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    14. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      what's the difference between legally disorderly and illegally disorderly? how do we even define disorderly?

    15. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by admdrew · · Score: 1

      I was using "legally disorderly" to describe being disorderly in a fashion that is legally defined, and would fall under the 'disorderly conduct' charge that was given to this guy.

      IANAL, so I do not know what defines that, nor do I *agree* with the charge. I was just attempting to clarify girlintraining's post (as I understood it) to dcollins

    16. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      disorderly: belonging to a minority or unpopular group, nor not belonging to the group with controlling power.

    17. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually.... there was a case here in MA where a man was yelling at police, repeatedly told to leave the area, was "wildly gesticulating" with his hands (though not in a specifically threatening manner)....all while the police were trying to arrest someone else.

      The courts ruled that this did not constitute disorderly conduct....and that was 20 years before the Henry Lewis Gates case. (of course, the police seem to willfully ignore this fact and continue to arrest people on these false charges)

      I totally agree with the first part, that would have been the right thing for the police to do and....right on multiple counts...not just the right thing to do but the right PR move. How much credit would the police get for being seen on tape asking politely for someone to show some respect?

      Instead, they pull this shit, which they should know better than to do....again.

    18. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 1

      You might want to examine what the law actually says about disorderly conduct. It does not, in fact, mean "suspect failed to follow a police order requiring suspect to destroy evidence of police misconduct"

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    19. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      In cases like this, I always say the same thing. There are either 2 possibilities here:

      1) There is a valid crime to charge him with. In this case, the police officers just destroyed evidence which is both illegal and could let the guy off since the case is based on the video.

      2) There isn't a valid crime to charge him with. In this case, the police officers just destroyed his private property for no good reason. (The video embarrasses them isn't a good reason.)

      Neither of these scenarios is good for the police. Sadly, they're probably really close to the DA and nobody will be charged. And if he tries to file a civil suit... well, good luck suing the police department. You'd better not step outside of the exact letter of the law even an inch (e.g. drive a single mile over the speed limit ever again).

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    20. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I agree with the asking him nicely part, but not with the "that's what disorderly conduct" part. If he curses at the officer, spits in his face and tries to run away, sure. But if he says "Actually, officer, I'd rather not delete it" (in a calm manner) then the officer shouldn't arrest him and charge him with disorderly conduct. Disagreeing with a police officer shouldn't be grounds for disorderly conduct, especially when you've done nothing else wrong.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    21. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      It's a case of the police deliberately lying (which should be a crime, but the police have sued hundreds of times to protect their right to lie), then compounding the lie with illegal arrest, illegal impoundments (theft, if you did it), then complaining about the actions of the innocent bystander they harassed.

      If that's the police when they mean well, then we are better off without them. Disband the police and we'd be safer than with police like that.

      P.S. Ignorance of the law is no defense.

    22. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the first im hearing that being a douche is a criminal offense.

    23. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by girlintraining · · Score: 2

      I don't know how calling someone a "fascist boot-licker" got modded anything but troll, but let me spell it out for you and the idiot mods that bumped you: I'm not saying that charging him with disorderly conduct was the right response either. Go re-read my post again, I'll wait. What I said was that if the officer is dead-set on getting this guy's camera away from him, a disorderly conduct charge would be a lot better than trumped up "HIPPA violation, obstruction of justice, blah blah." The legal system is a crap shoot and it's possible one of those charges might stick -- and even if they don't he's still out a lot of time and money defending it. It's also terrible publicity. Disorderly conduct charges don't make the news and they don't screw up your employment. You're not ruining someone's life with a disorderly conduct charge. You're aiming to hurt someone pretty good when you slap them with obstruction of justice.

      All I'm doing here is pointing out that there were lesser evils to choose from. That does not make me a "fascist boot-licker", it makes me a practical person who understands that cops are people too and if I had to deal with assholes everyday, I might just feel an urge to drag one through the mud every now and then, especially if they're blathering on about their right to be there and how you're being an asshole for rendering medical aid to a mentally ill person. Does that make it right? No. Do I understand it? Fuck yes.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    24. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      How does it apply to this incident? Is it illegal disorderly conduct to record someone having a mental breakdown, and not stopping the recording despite a cop asking you, even politely, to stop? You could be the ultimate paramount douche and stand there laughing at the guy as you tape him, even saying things like "This'll get so many hits on Youtube!" and still not be illegal. As soon as you start thinking "Well surely there are some times it's illegal, and it wouldn't be a bad thing if the guy got a sound drubbing and have the camera taken from them" you join their side of using drummed up charges to harass the douche and then delete the _evidence_.

      No, it's not nice, but there's no way you can class simply being a douche as disorderly conduct. If that was the case then dealing with the westboro baptist types would be much easier.

    25. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the time when they operate with a 'worse case' mentality, it is anything but a fast-moving situation. A routine traffic-stop is anything but fast-moving for instance)/

      Cops are:
      - well armed
      - well armored
      - well organised (plus they have the organisational advantage of not having to hurry or hide their violent actions)
      - well trained (well supposed to be anyway, I personally have a different impression all to often)
      - are assumed to be in the right by default no matter what they pull
      - and unless they get ambushed (vanishingly rare) they heave the luxury of deciding if and how to get involved (yes that's right cops have no obligation to step into any situation, cops unions have gonna all the way to the supreme court and got a ruling that they have no obligation to protect)

      In other words, they have overwelming logistic, and strategic and legal advantages in all situations, and usually have superior manpower, weapons and tactical situation also (definately so in any standoff situation)

      Given all that saying that cops 'have to' operate with a 'worst case mentality' is ... completely and utterly ridiculous to put it mildy.

    26. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "ignorance of the law is no defense"

      combined that with the practical reality that it is flatout impossible to even keep up with all new laws, let along all the laws, and case law that have made in the last couple of hundred years.

      what you now have is an absurdity, and hance plenty of reason not to respect the law (NOTE: not respecting the law in no way precludes you respecting your fellow beings and your environment)

    27. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by dcollins · · Score: 1

      "if I had to deal with assholes everyday, I might just feel an urge to drag one through the mud every now and then"

      Normal people do not feel that urge. Nor do they spend time constructing improved legal dodges for abuse. You are indeed, oh my most esteemed colleague and fellow-citizen, a fascist boot-licker.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    28. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by admdrew · · Score: 1

      there's no way you can class simply being a douche as disorderly conduct

      Agreed.

      I wasn't saying that being a douche === disorderly conduct, I was just saying girlintraining's post was using the phrase "total douche" to equate to disorderly conduct (mathematically: douche-level infinity, or something).

    29. Re:Destruction of evidence and private property. by Darby · · Score: 1

      or you can recognize that the main duty of law enforcement is to protect the peace and maintain the standards of their community. Maybe we've drifted from that, but that's a topic for another day.

      And right there is the glaring error that makes your argument unsound.

      Not maybe, not drifted. We're way far away from that and have been for decades to put it mildly.
      Saying that that's a topic for another day does not work when that's what you're basing your argument on and you've already admitted that you know that it may not be true. Read a bit of history. It's never been true. Anywhere.

      *IF* I could fly, then I could jump off my roof and fly to the taco shop.
      What do you think the odds are of me flying home with tacos if I jumped off my roof...given that it's high enough that a fall would likely kill me?

      That is the way in which your argument failed.

      I don't think you're a boot licking fascist, but I do think you share with far too many IMO people the emotional attachment to the naive idea of ethical police which is what allows them to literally get away with murder and a vast array of other crimes time and time again.

       

  3. what a surprise by vlm · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What a surprise, cops are bullies, liars, and thugs. That's not exactly "news".

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    1. Re:what a surprise by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not news, but always worth reminding people.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:what a surprise by mlw4428 · · Score: 2

      What a surprise, SOME cops are bullies, liars, and thugs. That's not exactly "news".

      Fixed that for ya.

    3. Re:what a surprise by Damastus+the+WizLiz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not all cops are bullies, liars, or thugs. I have personally known some very nice ones. Unfortunately all jobs done by people get good and bad ones alike. Yes there are some bad cops. There are also alot of officers who just have to put up with bad people all day. I know its a pipe dream but I wish people would stop making horrible generalizations just because they see one bad egg. You might do well to remember that police officers go out every day all over world with the prospect of not making it home that night. All in the name of protecting people like you and me.

      --
      I often have trouble remembering which way is out of bed in the morning.
    4. Re:what a surprise by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You might do well to remember that police officers go out every day all over world with the prospect of not making it home that night.

      So do taxi drivers. Seriously, it's more dangerous than being a cop.

      But if you get a bad taxi driver, you generally don't tip or don't pay.

      Get a bad cop and they'll ruin your life.

      See the difference?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    5. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Right.. and how many of the rest of them look the other way, actively cover up, or otherwise tighten up on the thin blue line? Its almost like theres a phrase in the law for that: accessory after the fact.

      Where is the outrage from law enforcement over such flagrant abuse of authority? Where are the criminal charges for the so-called police officers at fault?

    6. Re:what a surprise by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh and further than that.

      Pretty much every time a police misconduct case comes up in the news, it seems that it always involved a hefty dose of cops covering for other cops.

      I think the number of bad cops is quite high.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    7. Re:what a surprise by geekoid · · Score: 2

      No.
      The vast majority are not bullies, liars or thugs.

      "Science flies us to the moon. Blind belief flies make us irrational." - Victor Stenger paraphrase
      Blind beliefs such as:
      "What a surprise, cops are bullies, liars, and thugs."

      Please think.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:what a surprise by Synerg1y · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Part of the problem I think is a lack of accountability, too many cases come down to the cop's word vs. the defendant's and the cop's is taken without question landing innocent people into the system. I think the issue can easily be solved as somebody on here said in a discussion a while ago by installing cameras in ALL police cars. An extreme step past that would be to track the officer themselves, but there's gotta be a better way than that. The reason for all this: they hold a position of power that they've proven time and time and again they're capable of abusing, those in power should be held accountable, even if it's over the wrongful arrest of a single individual. Imagine being "that" guy, not a good day indeed.

    9. Re:what a surprise by Hatta · · Score: 3, Interesting

      All cops are either bullies, liars, or thugs. They are required to be bullies by the existance of sumptuary laws like those against cannabis. If they enforce those laws they are bullies. If they refuse to enforce those laws, they are liars. QED.

      As long as there are bad laws, police will be bad people.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How they act at work may be quite different from how they act in social situations...so saying they are very nice doesn't mean a whole lot.

    11. Re:what a surprise by Hatta · · Score: 2

      So when can we expect the officer in question to be arrested by his fine, upstanding fellow officers for false arrest? This arrest is clearly illegal, and yet no one is going to arrest him for it. Every officer that fails to make that arrest is a thug, plain and simple.

      Cops are thugs. That's not a blind belief, it's a hypothesis that's well supported by the available evidence.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    12. Re:what a surprise by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Funny

      Be fair, it's not more then 90% or so. Maybe a little more in small towns.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    13. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And until there's a flashing light or something on their cap saying which ones are the corrupt cops and which ones are the good ones, it's in your best interest to treat every single one as corrupt as hell.

    14. Re:what a surprise by bmo · · Score: 2

      If you are a so-called good cop that covers up for the bad cops, then you are a bad cop too.

      And no cops ever expose bad cop behavior.

      They are all bad cops.

      QED.

      --
      BMO

    15. Re:what a surprise by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      Which is why these things are normally stopped by other cops, and, if the offending cop does not stop, he is arrested and prosecuted, right? When was the last time you heard of it? Does that support the hypothesis that most cops are decent persons when on the job?

    16. Re:what a surprise by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      I reckon it's the other way in small towns, since everyone knows everyone else.

      In bigger towns, it's an us versus them mentality.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    17. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, true.

    18. Re:what a surprise by steelfood · · Score: 2

      Not only that, but taxi drivers don't hide behind a code that prevents the "good" ones from outing the "bad" ones.

      There are no good cops. There are only those who comply with the law, and those who don't. That the "good" ones cover for each other or refuses to make a stand against the "bad" ones makes all of them bad.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    19. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Taxi drivers have a more dangerous job than being a cop? I didn't realize it was in their job description to confront dangerous/armed/drugged/etc. people in person and often to subdue them. I didn't know they were instructed to knock on the front door of a home where known criminals reside and to hope there isn't a gun pointed at them through the door. Silly me - I thought the taxi driver could choose to NOT do those things without shirking his or her duty.

      Next time you see someone on the street acting very suspicious or crazy why don't you walk right up to them and start asking them questions .. Next time an alarm goes off in a building why don't you go inside to see whats going on. How about stopping a car in the middle of the night on a deserted road and going up to the window when you can't see inside? And this is just a tiny fraction of their responsibilities!

      Do you really not have any idea what the police actually have to do? It's their JOB to approach an unknown situation with potentially violent persons and try to resolve the situation. All in the name of keeping you safe.

      Yes, there are bad cops. But don't paint them all in the same light because of a few examples. How many (tens of) thousands of incidents do you think police all over the country respond to every day and they are never "bad enough" to make the news?

    20. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Difference number 2: You pay the cop no matter what.

    21. Re:what a surprise by admdrew · · Score: 1

      Who was arrested, again?

    22. Re:what a surprise by N0Man74 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's my impression that Police culture, much like Military culture, heavily frowns on ratting out another member of your group, even if you know they did something wrong... especially if they do something wrong.

      Perhaps having a collective group whose mission is to take out bad guys, and seeing bad guys constantly, creates a very stong "us" and "them" driven ethos.

    23. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Covering an officers on duty activities with video footage is a start, but you'll have to put CONCRETE and SEVERE punishments in place that occur immediately upon an officer "losing" or "having an accident with" the footage of their activities. As we have seen in many occurrences (This case, Hollywood PD FL Framing, Denver PD beating of Dehererra, BART shooting) officers WILL attempt to delete, hide or obfuscate footage of their crimes.

    24. Re:what a surprise by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Everyone given power of that nature will become a bully and thug.

      It is a fundamental human characteristic.

      http://www.prisonexp.org/

    25. Re:what a surprise by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think that the Stanford Prison Experiment provides evidence that most people place in that role will show this sort of behavior.

    26. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taxi drivers drive all day. This is statistically more dangerous than all of what you stated.

      Maybe try to understand what posters are saying before throwing a bitch fit and licking every police officer's ass like a slut.

    27. Re:what a surprise by hab136 · · Score: 2

      >Really? Taxi drivers have a more dangerous job than being a cop?

      Taxi drivers are attacked, and killed, more often than cops. "Cab driving riskier than police work"

      They basically spend all day, every day, picking up strange people, and letting them sit behind them. They get robbed and murdered a lot.

    28. Re:what a surprise by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Not all cops are bullies, liars, or thugs. I have personally known some very nice ones.

      Well and good, but if they are being exposed to illegal/immoral actions of their fellow officers, and doing nothing about it, then they are just as bad as the corrupt cops they're covering for.

      "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." -- Thomas Jefferson

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    29. Re:what a surprise by admdrew · · Score: 1

      There are no good cops.

      steelfood is quite the social butterfly, what with knowing every single cop in the world.

    30. Re:what a surprise by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      You might do well to remember that police officers go out every day all over world with the prospect of not making it home that night.

      So do taxi drivers. Seriously, it's more dangerous than being a cop.

      Indeed;

      In fact, "cop" doesn't even make the list of Top 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in America. So much for that little misconception.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    31. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's my impression that Police culture, much like Military culture, heavily frowns on ratting out another member of your group, even if you know they did something wrong... especially if they do something wrong.

      Perhaps having a collective group whose mission is to take out bad guys, and seeing bad guys constantly, creates a very stong "us" and "them" driven ethos.

      Which, as a member of the public, squarely places them in the "bad guy" column.

    32. Re:what a surprise by vlm · · Score: 1

      Perhaps having a collective group whose mission is to take out bad guys... creates a very stong "us" and "them" driven ethos.

      Maybe, for a shocking 180 change of pace, they could try something historical like "protect and serve"

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    33. Re:what a surprise by vlm · · Score: 1

      If they refuse to enforce those laws, they are liars.

      Add incompetent as a theoretical alternative.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    34. Re:what a surprise by Damastus+the+WizLiz · · Score: 1

      To the best of my knowledge they have been upstanding in and out of work. As someone pointed out its different in different places and in cities with more people you have more cops and more chances for bad ones. And yes in a city with millions in it, its not hard for people to develop an us vs them mentality with a group of people they have close contact with and are expected to support on a regular basis. I wont say there are no bad cops. All I am saying is we cant judge everyone by the actions of a few.

      --
      I often have trouble remembering which way is out of bed in the morning.
    35. Re:what a surprise by sjames · · Score: 1

      And the others tacitly approve by not stopping them.

    36. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

      Captcha: unjust

    37. Re:what a surprise by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      The vast majority ARE culpable, either through action or inaction.

      --
      Good-bye
    38. Re:what a surprise by thaylin · · Score: 1

      Criminals dont go after cops, because they know they are armed. In addition cops general approach unknown circumstances with groups of people, not alone. Lets also not forget they are heavily armed and trained to use deadly force.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    39. Re:what a surprise by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

      There's only two kinds of cops: bad cops, and those that enable them.

    40. Re:what a surprise by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 1

      RTFS: "The article notes that the Deputy in question basically told the guy he was arrested for being a "buttinski" and recording someone in the midst of a violent mental health breakdown. Supposedly the footage was deleted from the camera while in police custody."

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    41. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Part of the problem I think is a lack of accountability, too many cases come down to the cop's word vs. the defendant's and the cop's is taken without question landing innocent people into the system.

      This is why the law needs to change. A single citizen's word should automatically trump 100 law enforcement officer's word if the video was deleted while in police custody. You need to start questioning to police. If you have nothing to hide, then why delete the video?

    42. Re:what a surprise by admdrew · · Score: 1
      ...RTFA, and do a text search for "arrest":

      Henderson went back to the sheriff's office in mid-November to get a copy of the report and try once again to retrieve his camera. Deputy Dan Eggers refused to give him either. He pulled Henderson aside.

      "I think that what (the deputies) felt was you were interfering with someone's privacy that was having a medical mental health breakdown," Eggers said, as heard on another recording Henderson made. "They felt like you were being a 'buttinski' by getting that camera in there and partially recording what was going on in a situation that you were not directly involved in."

      He suggested that Henderson should "have a little respect" for people's privacy.

    43. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yah, some are bad and the rest keep quiet to cover it up.

       

    44. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      24 hour convenience store is probably the most dangerous, especially the ones that don't have a bullet proof kiosk

      this is another reason of why so many Americans are giving up their citizenship and leaving

    45. Re:what a surprise by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Has a cop ever personally protected you from some violent criminal? It has never happened to me. I don't think they protect anything except themselves and their fellow cops. They are no different from any street gang in that some members will be angry and violent and unpredictable and some will be normal. The only difference is that the cops don't have to worry about getting caught because they are the police.

      If 1 cop in 20 is a serial killer the other 19 will still do anything and everything in their power to prevent him from being prosecuted. They are not about justice. At best they are about collecting a paycheck, getting satisfaction from how much power they have over most people, and protecting the cops who are corrupt from facing any consequences. Knowing that you can literally get away with murder is also one of the perks.

      In my state there was a recent case where a man was murdered while in custody at a sobriety checkpoint. He allegedly had some marijuana in his possession. But he must have pissed off the wrong guy and he was beaten to death. His family was able to sue the state and won a lot of money, but the guy is still dead. And the murderer will never be revealed. It's important to remember that in my state sobriety checkpoints often have 20-40 police officers on duty at the location. So that was indeed a very large conspiracy to protect the murderer(s) among them. So much for justice. So much for 'protecting' the public. Are all police violent murdering sociopaths? I doubt it, but in the end it doesn't matter. Because the ones who are are not disciplined in any way and remain on the force you have to pretty much assume that any particular cop you encounter is one of them. All of them can murder you in cold blood with witnesses and face not the slightest punishment for it. When you are a cop there are never any consequences to your actions. If you get off on hurting others there is no better job.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    46. Re:what a surprise by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Whether he was arrested at the scene or not is irrelevant. He was unlawfully deprived of his property. He was charged with crimes out of spite. And the police deleted the video, committing obstruction of justice themselves.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    47. Re:what a surprise by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      It is a cop's job to make arrests when they see a crime being committed. If all cops were not bad, we would see a lot more cops being arrested. Since we don't see cops getting arrested for the crimes they commit, we know that all cops are bad. They are either bad because they are personally committing the crimes, or they are bad because they are accessories to the crime.

      The recent story about the statistical anomaly of a cop that arrested another cop for doing 120mph when off duty shows what happens to good cops. They get run out of the force and have to live in fear for their life.

    48. Re:what a surprise by admdrew · · Score: 1

      Whether he was arrested at the scene or not is irrelevant

      I'm guessing the guy with the camera would beg to differ had he actually been arrested.

      Like most people commenting here, I also strongly disagree with how the police acted here, but getting the facts of the situation wrong is pretty lazy. An actual arrest would've been far worse than what actually occurred.

    49. Re:what a surprise by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Since bad cops are not being arrested, we are not judging everyone by the actions of a few. We are judging everyone by the actions of everyone.

    50. Re:what a surprise by Hatta · · Score: 1

      It's my impression that Police culture, much like Military culture, heavily frowns on ratting out another member of your group, even if you know they did something wrong... especially if they do something wrong.

      Which is the same thing as saying that nearly all cops are liars, bullies, and thugs. If they were decent human beings, there would be no such expectation.

      Perhaps having a collective group whose mission is to take out bad guys, and seeing bad guys constantly, creates a very stong "us" and "them" driven ethos.

      That might explain it, but in no way does it excuse it.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    51. Re:what a surprise by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      Henderson was however charged and unless those charges are dropped it is going to trial. Can you be charged and end up in court without being arrested?

    52. Re:what a surprise by dbreeze · · Score: 1

      Bingo. I suspect many in law enforcement just wish the rest of us would get a clue and vote in legislators with an actual interest in the needs of the people.
      How do you reckon the ratio of good/bad cops compares to good/bad legislators?

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    53. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only reason I need "protecting" is because of bullshit laws that make it illegal or at least troublesome for me to protect myself. You do know that the Supreme Court has ruled that cops have absolutely no legal duty to protect you, right? Then people want to make it impossible to protect yourself, and who's left to do it? That's right, nobody. I'm not specifically talking about gun laws,mthough those don't help much. It's more the notion that there's never a good reason for violence, when in fact there is often plenty of reason for it. I'm a peaceful person, rather quiet actually. I don't normally even think about initiating violence, but I don't enjoy having my hands legally tied by power hungry lawmakers and cop worshipers.

      I've seen more than one bad egg, btw. Actually it's kind of funny: the nature of my job is such that I see more than an average number of cops and my position is such that they're rarely anything but nice and polite to me even though I don't work for a police agency. However, the ones I meet outside of that environment, where they don't know me and I don't know them--those have a much higher percentage of jerk like high and mighty superiority. Not all, but more than enough to stand out and much more than occasional.

      Militarized and militant police are a huge problem, and I have no sympathy for their unprofessional behavior, nor do I have any for the supposed "good cops" who say nothing about the bad ones. It would be nice to live in a country where cops treat non cops as real people instead of objects to be controlled.

    54. Re:what a surprise by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      no, you have a misconception. over 80% of people become cops because they are on power trip, they have bad wiring in their heads.

      there's a reason we called them "pigs" back in the 60s and 70s.....

    55. Re:what a surprise by russotto · · Score: 1

      there's a reason we called them "pigs" back in the 60s and 70s.....

      I called one a pig in the 90s.

      Of course he then called his buddies over to clobber me and pepper spray me, but what do you expect from a pig?

    56. Re:what a surprise by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      How can you be so sure it is only a few? Especially when the many always cover for the few? There is simply no way to know how many cops in a given group are bad and in the end it really doesn't matter. If the cop you encounter is one of the bad ones that is all that matters. If you happen to encounter an honest, non-aggressive, non-sociopath cop count yourself lucky. But your luck will eventually run out. When a large group of them get together it becomes extremely likely that you will directly encounter a bad one.

      It is unfortunate that in the US a corrupt cop is usually one that beats and kills people for pleasure. In other countries they usually just ask for a bribe to make your problem go away. I strongly prefer the latter sort of corruption.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    57. Re:what a surprise by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      That does seem plausible, but in my experience cops in a number of other countries are more normal. A much smaller percentage seem to be sociopaths who enjoy hurting people and feel no guilt.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    58. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being in the midst of the aftermath of an unprofessional police encounter involving purgery and property damage, i would like to bring up that I think this kind of thinking is dangerous. There are a lot of police out there, and they are all individuals with their own morals. Some (far too many) are either sadistic or psychopathic. Some are honest people who truly care about the communities they serve. I have seen an above-average amount of police harassment in my short adult life, but I refuse to let the scum give everyone a bad name. Maybe im naive...

    59. Re:what a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A friend of mine is on the police force. I asked him about the dash cams and his reply was (paraphrased):

      "....yeah, they only come on when we turn on the lights. So if we need to do something to a suspect we can turn off our flashers and the camera stops. Or just point the car so that the scene is not viewable by the camera. We also might just pull in front of a unit with flashers on so that the camera view is blocked..."

      STJ

    60. Re:what a surprise by admdrew · · Score: 1

      Yeah - arrested means you're being officially detained into police custody, which didn't happen in this situation. IANAL, but I suspect that generally misdemeanors don't result in arrests.

    61. Re:what a surprise by Darby · · Score: 1

      Not all cops are bullies, liars, or thugs.

      Now remember whenever say that without appending "but the rest do nothing to stop them and so they continue to get away with it" you will be telling a lie of omission in an attempt to deceive.

      All in the name of protecting people like you and me.

      They have gone to court time and time again to ensure that this is *not* part of their responsibilities.

      That was a bald faced lie.

      I'm sorry, but I can't really put much faith in anything you say after you lied twice.

  4. Lucky bastard. by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

    He's set.

    I just wish he could take the cops houses as well as a bunch of taxpayer money.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    1. Re:Lucky bastard. by masternerdguy · · Score: 1

      Yep. This guy is going to make some serious money when he sues for wrongful prosecution.

      --
      To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
    2. Re:Lucky bastard. by Talderas · · Score: 1

      It would be tough to get a suit if they don't prosecute the charges.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  5. destruction of evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    > confiscated his video camera, stating, 'We'll just take this for evidence,'
    > Supposedly the footage was deleted from the camera while in police custody.

    So... where is the "destruction of evidence" charge?

    1. Re:destruction of evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > confiscated his video camera, stating, 'We'll just take this for evidence,' > Supposedly the footage was deleted from the camera while in police custody.

      So... where is the "destruction of evidence" charge?

      Some animals are more equal than others.

      Especially if one of them is a pig.

  6. Tampering with evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If he was actually charged with a crime, someone tampered with the evidence while it was under police control.

  7. HIPAA regards medical records not police busts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Give a large man with a small brain a gun and some authority and here's what happens.

    1. Re:HIPAA regards medical records not police busts by the_B0fh · · Score: 3, Funny

      Errr, except that it was a woman...

      Give an AC the ability to post but not read and here's what happens... :P

    2. Re:HIPAA regards medical records not police busts by ThisIsSaei · · Score: 1

      Man can be used in a gender-neutral way. Nit-picking isn't good.

    3. Re:HIPAA regards medical records not police busts by geekoid · · Score: 1, Funny

      How else do you get rid of nits?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:HIPAA regards medical records not police busts by the_B0fh · · Score: 0

      Apparently you give it to Saei :P

    5. Re:HIPAA regards medical records not police busts by ThisIsSaei · · Score: 1

      They have this amazing thing called soap and water. Enough off-topic crap. The point is that word-choice is the most pedantic of disagreements.

    6. Re:HIPAA regards medical records not police busts by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Errr, except that it was a woman...

      woman
      wo' man
      womb man

      A woman is a man with a womb.

    7. Re:HIPAA regards medical records not police busts by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      Oh, how nice. You have a second account to score me down. *tsk tsk*

    8. Re:HIPAA regards medical records not police busts by ThisIsSaei · · Score: 1

      I didn't 'score you down' even once. And no, paranoid much?

    9. Re:HIPAA regards medical records not police busts by retchdog · · Score: 1

      this has been today's installment of Homeless Crack Addict Etymology! we do hope you've enjoyed watching. tune in tomorrow for more rambling speculation.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    10. Re:HIPAA regards medical records not police busts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well give us the ability to read then!

  8. Quick where's Dave Schroeder? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He needs to stop licking cop boots to come defend their actions!

  9. Mix by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I disagree and think that police should be allowed to be filmed in public places at all times, to help keep them honest.

    At the same time, if I were being loaded into an ambulance by police, in the midst of a violent mental health breakdown, I would really appreciate it if the police stopped people from filming me. That's not something you want out spread around the internet.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:Mix by MBGMorden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      At the same time, if I were being loaded into an ambulance by police, in the midst of a violent mental health breakdown, I would really appreciate it if the police stopped people from filming me. That's not something you want out spread around the internet.

      Freedom isn't always convenient. Hell some people enjoy very nice lives under a dictatorship (particularly the dictator themselves). Doesn't mean its right. What you're effectively saying is that people should have their speech restricted even if its the truth so long as someone else finds that speech embarrassing or offensive.

      Do you not know the road that takes us down?

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    2. Re:Mix by olsmeister · · Score: 2

      So anytime I don't want people to film me in public, I should just have a violent mental health breakdown. Got it.

    3. Re:Mix by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Except there's actually nothing at all which is illegal about what the guy did, and absolutely no legal basis to arrest him on a HIPAA violation.

      These are trumped up, bullshit charges. Period.

      The cops are being asshats, and should be charged.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:Mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm totally putting cameras in your bathroom and bedroom now.

    5. Re:Mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But would you appreciate the video evidence if the police instead of just restraining you were kicking you in the gut and laughing? How about if that happened to your kid or your parent?

    6. Re:Mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, he's saying that we should expect common decency from our fellow man, but, since people have decided to think in Black and White and act like "buttinski's", never acknowledging that reasonable limits can be self enforced by individuals, he's willing to accept that maybe we don't deserve the freedom we say is so important.

      Remember its not just the government who can stomp all over the individual...other individuals can do it to. Unfortunately we're so quick to point out absolute wrong of the government, that we ignore our responsibility not to be an ass in a functioning society. Just because the police are wrong doesn't make the guy with the camera right.

    7. Re:Mix by ohnocitizen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's presuming "a violent mental breakdown" matches the actual events. If I was beaten up by the police and loaded into an ambulance with the tag "this guy is psychotic", I'd sure as hell want someone to have recorded what really happened.

    8. Re:Mix by Hatta · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Allowing the police to avoid being observed and recorded has consequences that affect society as a whole. That's really bad.

      Allowing the police to enforce the privacy of someone they're arresting only really affects those few who are arrested. Arrest being an offical duty by a public official, should not really carry any sort of reasonable expectation of privacy. And whatever is captured on video actually happened, so there are no legitimate concerns of libel or slander. On the whole, this is not that bad.

      I think it's clear where the balance lies. I would rather have a 100% chance of any future interaction between myself and law enforcement to be recorded and distributed on the internet than risk the slightest chance of police getting away with brutality. Allowing video might reveal some crazy shit I actually did. Prohibiting video might conceal some crazy shit the police actually did.

      Of course, in some jurisdictions a police officer can be caught on tape sodomizing a prisoner with a tazer and suffer nothing but "additional training". So YMMV.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    9. Re:Mix by MBGMorden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being an asshole is legal, and should be. Freedom when it gets right down to it is all about doing things other people don't like. If every action you perform is in complete compliance with society's accepted definition of normal then you don't need any laws to protect your rights, because nobody is going to complain about your actions in the first place.

      The protections are there to specifically protect against the UNPOPULAR actions that people get chided for. Freedom to do what you want so long as it conforms to exactly what society approves of isn't freedom at all.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    10. Re:Mix by fredrated · · Score: 2

      On the other hand, if the person being detained by the police was injured they would be screaming at the top of their lungs calling for video.

      As for "not to be an ass in a functioning society" I guess that's in the eye of the beholder.

    11. Re: Mix by Furmy · · Score: 2

      The police and paramedics can do this by placing bodies between camera and patient or by using sheets and blankets. Arresting people and confiscating equipment is not the way to provide a patient with privacy.

    12. Re:Mix by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      Do you not know the road that takes us down?

      The one we're already on, that has no exits and severe tire (read: individual) damage will result from trying to back up.

    13. Re:Mix by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      While what you're saying is mostly true, I'd hope there would be room for decency and having things in moderation. For instance, thinking of an extreme situation, if a person had been kidnapped and stripped of their clothes but managed to escape, I'd hope that there would be some protections in place to prevent the inevitable videos of their naked run for help down the street from getting out of control. Obviously, we can't mandate common decency, nor should we do so, but there should be some way to protect people who have no meaningful control over the fact that they're in public.

      All of that said, I don't know what a system like that would look like. If we wanted to protect the privacy of a mentally ill person who was not in control of themselves while in public, how could a normal person with a camera distinguish right then between a person undergoing an undesired violent episode who was entitled to their privacy and a person who was simply being violent without being entitled any privacy? As you said, it's a dangerous road, and I don't have the answers.

    14. Re:Mix by nine932038 · · Score: 1

      In an ideal world, I wouldn't even think about this possibility, but in the current system, what you're suggesting lends itself well to abuse. For example, crooked authority figures would only need to appeal to the notion of politeness and privacy to cover their own deeds.

    15. Re:Mix by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      I have some similar mixed thoughts, but honestly I don't really believe their explanation in this case. If someone mentally ill were being filmed in public and the police were not present, would any prosecutor later press HIPAA charges for the public filming? My guess is no, and that he's being prosecuted because he filmed the police, with filming the mentally ill person serving as the excuse.

    16. Re:Mix by Spamalope · · Score: 2

      in the midst of a violent mental health breakdown, I would really appreciate it if the police stopped people from filming me.

      The article says he saw the police handling a bloodied man. While shooting the video he wouldn't know the circumstances resulting in the injury. Even now we don't have information about whether the person in the video was bloodied by the police. If he was, that's the exact time video should be rolling. A complete video record is the best defense an honest officer has. People in positions of special trust should be held to a higher standard, and we can start with the 'if you have nothing to hide' trope.

      I'm against this becoming (continuing to be..) a tracked/logged/surveillance society where everyone's actions are kept in a permanent file. If we are going down that path though, allowing a privileged class of any kind to operate without scrutiny is extremely harmful. Remember the pre-war on drugs, policing as a town profit center days when most of America could trust the local police? (with the tragic exception of race issues...) Why are we allowing the police to become 'them' instead of requiring them to be 'us' as an employment condition?

    17. Re:Mix by Hentes · · Score: 1

      This is a legal issue, not an ethical one. Under current American law, it's legal. Where I live, filming someone without consent gives them an implicit copyright over the footage. This is a grey area where freedom and privacy clash, and I'm not sure which one I prefer in this case. This guy is not a freedom fighter, he is a massive jerk.

    18. Re:Mix by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      It should also be punished by popular opinion, peer pressure and running into moments like these. Because if everyone was an ass, this would be a very shitty world to live in.

      One of the necessities behind having the level of freedom that we have is that people do not abuse these freedoms en masse. This is usually kept in check by social rather then legal means.

    19. Re:Mix by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      And next time you want to go somewhere via horse pulled cart, you should put that cart before the horse.

    20. Re:Mix by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      The cops are trying to keep asshat who filmed someone having a mental health breakdown from posting a video on youtube. They did it badly.

      But you certainly are in a rush to miss who's the asshat in the story and who just had the best intentions but failed in execution.

    21. Re:Mix by Talderas · · Score: 1

      He's not a covered entity under HIPAA. That's all there is to it.

      If you hand me all your medical records, since I am not a covered entity under HIPAA, I could do whatever the fuck I want with them. I could plaster them on the Internet. I could drop leaflet copies of your medical records all over Manhatten. There may be other laws I could be prosecuted under, but it certainly wouldn't be HIPAA.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    22. Re:Mix by Talderas · · Score: 1

      A dumb one or one that doesn't know the HIPAA laws might. The charge is bogus (unless there's been a huge change in how HIPAA works that I'm unaware of) and the guy is not a covered entity that must follow HIPAA's regulations.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    23. Re:Mix by GryMor · · Score: 1

      If I'm interacting with police, in public, please film it, no matter what state I'm in. My future welfare may depend on those recordings surviving.

      --
      Realities just a bunch of bits.
    24. Re:Mix by JeanCroix · · Score: 1

      Unless the guy having the mental breakdown decides to sue the police regarding his bloodied face and would've been glad for the evidence, in which case he's back to freedom fighter.

    25. Re:Mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the same time, if I were being loaded into an ambulance by police, in the midst of a violent mental health breakdown, I would really appreciate it if the police stopped people from filming me.

      Let me let you in on a little secret: That's not how the world works.

      One reason why - any would-be criminal would fake a mental breakdown to make the area a camera-free zone

    26. Re:Mix by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      While what you're saying is mostly true, I'd hope there would be room for decency and having things in moderation. For instance, thinking of an extreme situation, if a person had been kidnapped and stripped of their clothes but managed to escape, I'd hope that there would be some protections in place to prevent the inevitable videos of their naked run for help down the street from getting out of control. Obviously, we can't mandate common decency, nor should we do so, but there should be some way to protect people who have no meaningful control over the fact that they're in public.

      I consider such a video being hawked around for cheap laughs to be disgusting, but still I wouldn't hope for protections on this. There's no good way to protect such fringe cases without creating legal nightmares for a much larger group of people. Extreme situations aren't typically a good basis for general decision making or argumentation.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    27. Re:Mix by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      I disagree and think that police should be allowed to be filmed in public places at all times, to help keep them honest.

      It doesn't just keep them honest, it also helps juries who are savvy enough to know that police aren't always honest.

      For example, there's a case in my area where the police chased a couple about 15 miles at high speed, cornered them in a parking lot, and fired something like 120 rounds into their car killing both of them. But because nobody videotaped the start or end of the chase, and not much in between, nobody really knows what happened that caused the chase to begin with, or caused the police to shoot. Which means that the citizenry can't legitimately condemn or praise the police for their actions, because we don't know whether they were doing what they were supposed to, so everyone's basically following their instincts about whether they trust cops.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    28. Re:Mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the same time, if I were being loaded into an ambulance by police, in the midst of a violent mental health breakdown, I would really appreciate it if the police stopped people from filming me. That's not something you want out spread around the internet.

      Freedom isn't always convenient. Hell some people enjoy very nice lives under a dictatorship (particularly the dictator themselves). Doesn't mean its right. What you're effectively saying is that people should have their speech restricted even if its the truth so long as someone else finds that speech embarrassing or offensive.

      Do you not know the road that takes us down?

      I don't think absolute freedom is good either, see anarchy. There's always the matter of where you draw the line and a line most of us can agree on without encroaching too much on others.

      This issue is only going to grow ever larger as more cameras/sensors penetrate society. Combine that with people looking to exploit information obtained from these sensors. Imagine what machine learning, data mining, and other applied statistical methods will be able to pull from levels of surveillance we currently accept in 20, 50, 100+ years.

      The practice is happening now and people accept it (traffic cameras to monitor violations, security cameras that monitor theft, etc.), mainly because we remain ignorant of it and it's almost 'hidden' to the casual observer. I can't say I'd like being filmed/"stalked" around in public. This is no longer an issue for science fiction, it's rapidly approaching a societal issue that should be addressed, see the "Creepy Camerman's" work:
      http://www.geekwire.com/2012/seattles-creepy-cameraman-pushes-limits-public-surveillance/

      There are plenty of believable dystopian society stories where ever present information and monitoring result in shocking societal practices, at least to our current standards. Do we accept similar paths and slowly let our beliefs and societies evolve in similar directions without taking our natural behaviors into consideration?

      Total information freedom can be as scary as no information freedom. The fact of the matter is that we're all humans and we all have something (variable of course) we don't want everyone to know about or monitor, just think of your subconsciousness (irony, I know) if nothing else.

      Both paths are scary when considered in absolute terms. Where, I ask, is a happy medium for us mere humans?

    29. Re:Mix by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      The cops are trying to keep asshat who filmed someone having a mental health breakdown from posting a video on youtube. They did it badly.

      He filmed police frisking and detaining someone. He did it legally and in public. There was no evidence to suggest he was going to put it on You Tube, and even if he was, IT'S PERFECETLY LEGAL.

      The police confiscated his camera, deleted the footage, and are charging him with a HIPAA violation (of which there is no legal basis to charge him). Hell, there's not even any evidence the person was having a mental breakdown -- maybe he was being falsely arrested by these same cops.

      But you certainly are in a rush to miss who's the asshat in the story and who just had the best intentions but failed in execution.

      You know what? I don't give a crap about the "best intentions" of the police officer in question -- because as soon as she violated the law in order to do what she claims, the rest is irrelevant.

      If you truly believe the police should be able to break the law because they had good intentions, file trumped up charges with no legal basis, and delete evidence ... well, then I sincerely wish you the logical conclusion of that kind of world. I'm sure Rodney King would agree that taping police misconduct is a bad thing.

      Because when the evidence has been deleted, and the police had to be breaking the law for the first part of their story to be even remotely true (there is NO legal basis on which they can confiscate his camera, delete the images, or arrest him for having been there filming, or charge him for a HIPAA violation)... there's little basis to believe the rest of their claims.

      Sorry, but on the face of this, the police did illegal things, with possibly-well meaning but irrelevant motives, and have since charged him with something for which there is no legal basis to do so, and in the process deleted some of the evidence.

      An increasing number of police departments will arrest you, charge you, and seize your camera/delete the contents for filming them. Until the police are told in no uncertain terms that what they're doing is ILLEGAL, and accept that fact, I know exactly who I think the asshat in this story is.

      Everything which comes after illegally seizing his camera is trumped up crap. Telling an officer that he has no legal basis to arrest you isn't resisting arrest.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    30. Re:Mix by admdrew · · Score: 2

      Except there's actually nothing at all which is illegal about what the guy did

      Correct, although...

      and absolutely no legal basis to arrest him on a HIPAA violation.

      ...he wasn't arrested, nor was he charged "on a HIPAA violation". See this comment.

    31. Re:Mix by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      there should be some way to protect people who have no meaningful control over the fact that they're in public.

      As you said, it's a dangerous road, and I don't have the answers.

      I think the reality here is we can't protect everyone from everything all the time without dealing crushing blows to basic freedom. In these cases we have to weigh the risks. Here the choice is a victim of some kind may be farther victimized by another party who might potentially release some embarrassing footage; alternatively we create potential risk that some legal loophole can be used to suppress some other crime or misconduct.

      Nobody wants to have the worst day of their life become a viral video, but that is not a good enough reason to potentially deny justice to a victim of brutality, false arrest, etc.

      Its not a perfect world some compromises have to be made and this seems like a pretty obvious one.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    32. Re:Mix by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      And it's your kind that makes police behave as badly as they did in this case. Huge asshats with a hard on for getting away with being asshats based on freedoms which assume that most people in fact will not be asshats. And you'll never bother to look in the mirror for the reason, it'll be someone else's fault.

    33. Re:Mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "that we ignore our responsibility not to be an ass in a functioning society. Just because the police are wrong doesn't make the guy with the camera right."

            What responsibility is that? You can be anything you want, that's what we call being free, otherwise it's a pile of loopholes ripe for abuse as has been currently and historically proven. You can't compromise on principles or legal standards as those in power will always have the upper hand to use those loopholes against you. The only fix for this is a heavily armed populous as the law has proven utterly useless.

    34. Re:Mix by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      If only there was some way we could make decisions based on the specific details of the particular circumstance rather than relying on some universal ideals about what should happen every time. We'd have to hire a whole force of people to go about and look at specific situations and police what happens.

    35. Re:Mix by gparent · · Score: 1

      That's a private place you fucking moron.

    36. Re:Mix by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      For instance, thinking of an extreme situation, if a person had been kidnapped and stripped of their clothes but managed to escape, I'd hope that there would be some protections in place to prevent the inevitable videos of their naked run for help down the street from getting out of control.

      Wouldn't happen - as soon as the MSM got a hold of a video, they'd play it ad infinitum, 24/7, until the next big new story breaks.

      All of that said, I don't know what a system like that would look like. If we wanted to protect the privacy of a mentally ill person who was not in control of themselves while in public, how could a normal person with a camera distinguish right then between a person undergoing an undesired violent episode who was entitled to their privacy and a person who was simply being violent without being entitled any privacy? As you said, it's a dangerous road, and I don't have the answers.

      Well, FWIW, if the cops had any decency or respect for the mentally ill person, they would have conducted their activities in a more private place (like, say, on private property, where they would have had a legal right to tell the videographer to leave), rather than right out in the middle of a public street.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    37. Re:Mix by admdrew · · Score: 1

      Freedom to do what you want so long as it conforms to exactly what society approves of isn't freedom at all.

      The freedom to act doesn't include a freedom from consequences of your actions (as long as those consequences are legal themselves, like the 'popular opinion' and 'peer pressure' that Luckyo mentions).

      Based on the rest of this thread, though, I'm not really disagreeing with what you've said. phantomfive's statement "I would really appreciate it if the police stopped people from filming me." is fair, but could've been done in a better/legal way, by shielding the person being arrested, or by simply asking the person to stop filming (understanding that question may be answered negatively).

    38. Re:Mix by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      And it's your kind that makes police behave as badly as they did in this case.

      Really? Expecting the police to understand the law and follow it causes the police to violate the law? So by expecting them to live up to a moral standard I cause their bad behavior? How, exactly, does that work in your little fantasy scenario?

      Since you know nothing about me or my interactions/relationship with the police, you're mostly just acting like a child who makes claims without anything to support them.

      See, the great thing about rights, is they're independent of being an asshat -- freedom doesn't mean I'm free to do just the things you think are OK. Freedom means I'm free to do what I'm legally entitled to do. Or do you think there should be a right to not be offended, annoyed, or seen in public? The freedom is absolute as long as he wasn't breaking any laws, which he wasn't.

      And you'll never bother to look in the mirror for the reason, it'll be someone else's fault.

      Well, I suggest a little self reflection of your own there skippy -- because you're possibly an idiot who thinks he's being clever but has so far failed to say anything of substance.

      You're defending illegal acts by police officers over the hypothetical basis that the guy doing the filming must have intended something bad, and therefore anything the cops subsequently did is good. That's bullshit. Are you seriously suggesting that police should be able to break the law for some ambiguous (and unproven) matter of convenience?

      But, go ahead ... state your case if you feel the need. In what way is what the police did here legal or right when it's been well established that it's legal to film police doing things in public? Were they enforcing the law? Were they acting within the law? were they respecting this guys legal rights to act within the law? If they needed the video for evidence against the person they were arresting, they could have asked for it. If they just took it, one wonders about their motivations and if they were just covering their own asses.

      So far you've utterly failed to give a single rational argument as to why cops breaking the law is okay, and other than a vague hand-waving argument about people behaving poorly (which there is no evidence of in this case until they took his camera), you haven't said anything meaningful yet.

      Either you've managed to troll me, or you need to big up and state your case. And if you can't, STFU.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    39. Re:Mix by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Even if the cops beat the every loving shit out of you while you are having this break down?

    40. Re:Mix by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Why? If something happens in public, it happened, and trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle can only be done through evil means. Its life and its not always fair, but dont blind the world for your vanity.

      --
      Good-bye
    41. Re:Mix by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Women dressing provocatively is why men rape them, amirite?

      --
      Good-bye
    42. Re:Mix by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, did you just call police officer explaining her reasons "hypothetical"?

      Do you even know what that word means?

    43. Re:Mix by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Are you suggesting it's not a factor at all?

    44. Re:Mix by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      A dumb one or one that doesn't know the HIPAA laws might. The charge is bogus (unless there's been a huge change in how HIPAA works that I'm unaware of) and the guy is not a covered entity that must follow HIPAA's regulations.

      Well, he's not being charged with HIPAA violations, but the actual criminal privacy prohibitions in HIPAA also apply to anyone obtaining information without authorization when the information is maintained by a covered entity, not just to unauthorized disclosure by a covered entity (42 USC 1320d-6), so while there aren't HIPAA charges in this case and its probably the case that such charges would not be supportable by the facts in this case, it is not the case that only covered entities are subject to penalties for HIPAA violations (particularly when it comes to criminal penalties.)

    45. Re:Mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> Do you not know the road that takes us down?

      You are already there. Freedom and democracy are just the tools to try and take a different road.

    46. Re:Mix by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      If the 'asshat' was not breaking the law and the cops really were just trying to keep him from behaving like an asshat to the 'victim', then the cop committed a felony. There are only two possibilities here. The cop was incompetent and really thought that the filming was a HIPPAA violation that they were responsible for preventing, or the cop was knowingly committing a felony by acting under color of law to suppress a legal activity that the cop didn't like. You are suggesting the later.

      Of course, either way, the destruction of evidence was a felony that the police department has conspired to commit.

    47. Re:Mix by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Are you really blaming gstoddart for cops being corrupt? That is just crazy.

    48. Re:Mix by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Are the HIPAA laws even something the police are tasked with enforcing? There are plenty of laws that the police are not tasked with enforcing. I would be surprised if HIPAA fell under their purview.

    49. Re:Mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enjoy being shot for trespassing on private property.

    50. Re:Mix by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Where I live, filming someone without consent gives them an implicit copyright over the footage.

      Where would that be? Unworkableland?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    51. Re:Mix by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      No, he didn't.

      Do you?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    52. Re:Mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are only two possibilities here. The cop was incompetent and really thought that the filming was a HIPPAA violation that they were responsible for preventing, or the cop was knowingly committing a felony by acting under color of law to suppress a legal activity that the cop didn't like.

      Both are equally bad, and the punishment should be the same in either case: dismissal, loss of all accrued pension and personal (rather than the state, i.e. the taxpayer's) liability in case of a civil suit.

      I'd love to be able to piss on corrupt cops sleeping in cardboard boxes.

      You're wondering how I'd know which hobos were defrocked cops? I forget to mention that I'd brand them.

    53. Re:Mix by oursland · · Score: 1

      That's not a public space.

    54. Re:Mix by j-beda · · Score: 1

      And it's your kind that makes police behave as badly as they did in this case. Huge asshats with a hard on for getting away with being asshats based on freedoms which assume that most people in fact will not be asshats. And you'll never bother to look in the mirror for the reason, it'll be someone else's fault.

      The reasons for police illegal actions might possibly be a factor in sentencing, but they usually don't alter the legality of the act. If an officer makes an arrest on grounds that they know to be inaccurate, that just ain't right, no matter what the asshattery level of the arestee.

    55. Re:Mix by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      In what way is he a jerk? His intentions seem good. If the police broke any sort of law, if they hurt the individual in any way, that video would be the difference between being able to sue or not being able to sue. If the individual were accused of a crime against the police that video would provide evidence that at the very least the suspect's face was bloody and that he wasn't resisting arrest etc.

      In any circumstance where you have the police involved with an injured person videotaping it is the kindest thing you could do. If someone had videotaped the police brutality that I was a victim of I would have been grateful beyond words.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    56. Re:Mix by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I guess we could ask the guy what he thinks. Frankly, in a story reported in the news, we rarely have a clear understanding of what really happened.....

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    57. Re:Mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A road of decency? Really, nobody needs the right to publicly humiliate others, at least in cases where it's illness or sickness or something the person can't change. Yes, it's very hard to write a law that allows recording in some case and doesn't in some cases, but that's why you have courts for, the cases that are not clear.

    58. Re:Mix by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Correct. Hence my "they behaved badly in this case" statement.

      Another point made however was that police did in fact think that guy photographing the person being restrained during his episode was violating privacy of that person. Not the police - the person having the episode.

      They were wrong. But everyone here is screaming about "shitty police suppressing the truth about their terrible behaviour" and that's just clearly not the case here.

    59. Re:Mix by dkf · · Score: 1

      Being an asshole is legal, and should be.

      But it does mean you don't get invited to nearly so many parties.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    60. Re:Mix by j-beda · · Score: 1

      Another point made however was that police did in fact think that guy photographing the person being restrained during his episode was violating privacy of that person. Not the police - the person having the episode.

      They were wrong. But everyone here is screaming about "shitty police suppressing the truth about their terrible behaviour" and that's just clearly not the case here.

      Actually, that may be what the police *said*, but that is not necessarily what they *thought*. In fact, we have absolutely no real idea what the situation was given that we only have second hand info on what the police said.

    61. Re:Mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand why police officers feel the need to make shit up like this. I'm reminded of the guy who posted this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj9wahCTz08, if you're good at your job you have to have some faith in what you're doing. Sadly police management these days has insufficient spine to not punish those who break the rules nor support those that do a good job. In my country, if a stop like this had occurred, the fact that it wound up on youtube would probably mean this officer would receive some sort of management advice, despite the fact that it was exemplary.

      As a police officer, all be it in a different but not dissimilar country there is no expectation to privacy in a public place and we (the police) get often refreshed reminders and guidance about filming. You see the inverse on cop shows where people kick off at the camera crews because they don't want to be filmed and put on TV especially when they know they're likely to be arrested for an offence. I can be recorded (and have been) doing everything from stop & search to first aid on injured people. I do expect it, but I don't think it's reasonable to push past my colleagues and paramedics to do it and then exclaim about being pushed out of the way. There is an offence of obstruction and I *have* had to warn people about it. I don't think it's reasonable to hold a camera phone inches from my face and ignore reasonable requests to take the phone at least a little further away. I have suggested to people in the past, to hand their phone to a friend to continue the filming from a distance of say 3 or 4 feet, not 3 or 4 inches.

      The additional problem is quite how film footage quite often doesn't show the whole incident and almost never the circumstances leading up to a confrontational situation, not to mention the editing which happens an awful lot.

      People should indeed be allowed to be assholes, upto the point the law allows. If you want FREEDOM, then you have to accept that the asshole might stab you, take your stuff and rape your children and whilst society implodes they'll be nobody left making enough guns and ammunition for you to protect yourself as I'm sure you'll suggest.

      I expected to get moderated into oblivion...

    62. Re:Mix by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Im suggesting its not a legal defense.

      --
      Good-bye
    63. Re:Mix by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Okay, so we were talking about apples, and suddenly you decided to start talking about... tractors?

      Intriguing.

    64. Re:Mix by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      I agree with you that people in public should be free to record whatever is occurring in public. Even a jerk recording someone's mental breakdown. What the police should have done, is actually protect and serve, and held up a blanket so people couldn't see the ill person while they were being treated.

  10. That's some tortured reasoning. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's see how else they can figure out how to charge him.

    I say "infliction of mental distress through use of photonic capture" would be wriggled in there some way.

    1. Re:That's some tortured reasoning. by ThisIsSaei · · Score: 1

      Observation caused the quantum super-state of me having / not having a breakdown to collapse into a breakdown. The person with the camera should be charged with disturbing the peace for forcing reality down that particular route of events. Case closed.

    2. Re:That's some tortured reasoning. by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      I say "infliction of mental distress through use of photonic capture" would be wriggled in there some way.

      He stole my soul!

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    3. Re:That's some tortured reasoning. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Unlawfully instigating a 50-50 chance of the destruction of a cat.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  11. The video was deleted? by Scutter · · Score: 2

    If he was charged with a crime directly related to that video and it somehow got deleted while in police custody, how is that not tampering with evidence?

    --

    "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    1. Re:The video was deleted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somebody must have done it accidentally, duh!

    2. Re:The video was deleted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More to the point: if the evidence is gone, how do the police have a case?

    3. Re:The video was deleted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You still think cops are subject to the same laws as everyone else, how cute.

    4. Re:The video was deleted? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, they'll detain him for a bit. Question him like he's a common criminal. And then drop all charges and release him with the "understanding" that they've got their eye on him and with the word getting out that you don't videotape the police if you don't want to be "inconvenienced" by some jail time.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  12. Welcome to the Jackboot States of America by msobkow · · Score: 1

    'nuff said.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Welcome to the Jackboot States of America by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Wrong.
      Tat vast majority of places allow recording, and when they don't it gets shot down in court.
      We have a police officers crossing the line. Probably thought he was doing the person having the breakdown a favors.
      He wasn't correct, but lets not blow this out of proportion.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Welcome to the Jackboot States of America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, this is just like the time the Stalin killed 20 million Russian citizens!

    3. Re:Welcome to the Jackboot States of America by admdrew · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

    4. Re:Welcome to the Jackboot States of America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let us then take this at face value. The officer committed grand theft(theft over $500 as most decent cameras would cost that) by taking property, which was neither used in the commission of a crime or obtained with the proceeds of a crime. This is a felony in most states.

    5. Re:Welcome to the Jackboot States of America by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Read through some of the posts on http://www.copblock.org/ and you'll see that it's not just "a" police officer: it's a pattern all across the country, even though, by now, they should realize that filming the police in public is legal. That it's recognized as legal by the courts means nothing: the cops consistently ignore this and harass and destroy cameras because - wait for it... - they can. I wish this was an isolated incident. CopBlock exists because it's not.

      Note: I'm not involved with CopBlock beyond being a regular reader.

  13. What about my privacy? by alexander_686 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So, let me ask the flip question – one that I have been struggling with. Should public officials have privacy while on duty? Probably not. But what about citizens? How do we protect their rights?

    If I were Rodney King I would want my arrest to be videotaped. Check on the power of the police – that fine.

    A good phone should be able to eavesdrop on the private interview between suspect and cop.

    And, what if I did not want the tape to be posted? Maybe I did something shameful and don’t want it to be public? Maybe something that is implied to be shameful – like a false arrest. Let’s say you were pulled over for a moving violation in a red light district? A little careful editing and it could look very bad.

    1. Re:What about my privacy? by hondo77 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe I did something shameful and don't want it to be public?

      Then you shouldn't have done it in public.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    2. Re:What about my privacy? by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Welcome to the news.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    3. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      All of that is a matter of public record already. Who was arrested and why, etc. If it was a false arrest, or doctored footage then privacy is the wrong question to ask in both cases.

    4. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The answer to bad speech is more speech, not silence.

    5. Re: What about my privacy? by Furmy · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you are in public you have should have no expectation of privacy. If someone edits and shares the video to change the story then that could be grounds for libel.

    6. Re:What about my privacy? by geekoid · · Score: 4, Informative

      Are you in public? then your right to privacy does not include filming you about your business.
      That is ANYBODY.

      "And, what if I did not want the tape to be posted? "
      Too damn bad.
      "Maybe I did something shameful and don’t want it to be public?"
      Too damn bad.

      " A little careful editing and it could look very bad."
      and now you change the subject. That would be lying or fraud. We have laws for that already.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:What about my privacy? by ezakimak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is *no privacy* in a *public* place. By definition. For any party, anywhere. How you act in public, witnesses around or not, is open to public knowledge--be it praiseworthy or ridicule-worthy.

      Furthermore, if they first claim it was being taken in as evidence, then later they *deleted* the file--doesn't that constitute destruction of evidence (the source recording) on the police department's part? (unless they used full chain-of-custody and a data-forensics lab to copy the file?) Not to mention the obvious violation of his private information as well--I highly doubt they bothered to get a search warrant before perusing his phone's contents.

    8. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You have no privacy or expectation of privacy in a public place. This is supported by well established case law. That's why your employer can deploy security camera's everywhere except changing rooms and restrooms, and why the government can video monitor anything that happens on the street or in your yard.

      The police should have no more expectation of privacy than anyone else... unfortunately they have the power(if not the actual right) to punish people who violate their sense of a non-existent right to not be recorded.

    9. Re:What about my privacy? by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      I wonder... can the editing be considered libel?

      Also... I don't see why a false arrest is shameful, especially when it's shown to be false. If you act like a jackass in public, somebody video tapes you and posts it, something in the back of your mind should be wondering choices & consequences. In fact, it's better that way cause hopefully you won't do it again. So we can say it's a good thing that people can video tape you in public, keeps the riff-Raff in line and pants on.

    10. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's noted that the person being arrested was having a mental health breakdown. Photographing people having that and then posting it online is usually classified as "cyber bullying".

    11. Re:What about my privacy? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2

      Are you in public? then your right to privacy does not include filming you about your business.

      Unless, of course, it's the government installing security cameras everywhere. Then it becomes a major problem for me.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    12. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      geekoid, usually I totally disagree with just about everything you post. but despite my complete dislike for you I find myself in the odd position of agreeing with you on this one. it really sucks when someone you dislike for being an idiot actually goes and posts something intelligent. way to ruin my day.

    13. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well yeah, except those laws are for us proles. The upper caste and those aligned with them don't have the same laws.

      That said, I completely agree that it's too damn bad if you're recorded, it's posted, and/or edited to make you look bad and then posted. Just stop pretending that lying or fraud would have any bearing or legal grounds in the lower caste.

      Unless of course it's a lower caste member editing it to make another lower caste member look bad, that's the only time you might be able to try to find some justice.

    14. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see your point. But the math doesn't work for me.

      So, yes, you're walking out of the "Friends of Casper" convention just as a Klan demonstration passes on the street and you get accidentally arrested with the Klan members and the arrest is caught on film. In the dark, at the filming angle, there is no way to tell your hood is round and the others are pointy.

      When people google for your name and find that clip, your employment options may be curtailed. My arguments against legal prevention of filming are these:

      The collection of anecdotal evidence that makes up my life suggests that the number of times we catch police misbehavior will be far greater than the number of people inappropriately smeared by their actions.

      Even in the case above it may be to your great benefit to be on camera when the police arrest you and treat you like they treat Klan members in my state (not gently).

      In the case where you are not abused and you have working fingers and access to the Internet, then you can counter the effect. You need to put up the video showing you and the other Friends of Casper partying in costume, and ending with copies of your arrest release.

      Even if the number of Internet smears were equal to the number of police abuses. The unabused people are better equipped to fight back than the abused ones.

    15. Re:What about my privacy? by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      So if someone runs up and pantses you and another takes a pic of you in your skivvies, you were in public so there's no recourse for them posting it all over the Facebook? You should have just guarded your pants better or worn suspenders?
      Anyway, I'm anti-asshole-cops and this story is ridiculous but that's no excuse to say blanket laws and blanket terms are what we need in all cases.

    16. Re:What about my privacy? by bmo · · Score: 4, Informative

      >Should public officials have privacy while on duty?

      If they are out in public, no. They have the same right to privacy that you and I do out in public: none.

      >But what about citizens?

      You have no right to privacy out in public. This is established law. Doing something out on a public thoroughfare, sidewalk, public building, etc, means that you expect people to see you do/say things. It's the reason why the police don't need a warrant to arrest you for doing something illegal in front of them.

      >A good phone should be able to eavesdrop on the private interview between suspect and cop.

      If it's in an office, it's private, but not out in public. It's a publich conversation.

      Tough shit.

      >And, what if I did not want the tape to be posted?

      Tough shit.

      >Maybe I did something shameful and donâ(TM)t want it to be public?

      Tough shit.

      >Maybe something that is implied to be shameful â" like a false arrest.

      Tough shit.

      You can redress this by various means up to and including suing for false arrest and making public statements about the bad practices of the PD that led to the false arrest.

      >Letâ(TM)s say you were pulled over for a moving violation in a red light district? A little careful editing and it could look very bad.

      Tough shit. The only right you have to complain is whether the editing was defamatory.

      --
      BMO

    17. Re:What about my privacy? by tooyoung · · Score: 2

      Where did you get that the video was posted online? The only thing posted was the audio of the discussion with the police.

    18. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you not read the rest of the post? That suggestion is great for genuine shit, but what exactly should someone not do in order to avoid a false arrest?

    19. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the face of the person could be blurred to protect his identity, but I don't think the officer has the same rights as a private citizen does in this regard.

    20. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Usually classified" by whom?

    21. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the difference between cyber bullying and a politician campaigning against an incumbent?

      Age? Money?

      I'd be ok with limiting the term "bullying" to children.

    22. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at it this way: The sun shines on a dogs ass every now and then.

    23. Re:What about my privacy? by davydagger · · Score: 2

      you mean the cops automagically follow rules, laws, regulations, and start acting in their victim's best intrest when someone is having a "mental health breakdown",

      so what would normally be checks and balances against abuse of authority, now becomes cyber bullying if you ever question "being arrested for having a mental health breakdown"

    24. Re:What about my privacy? by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      And, what if I did not want the tape to be posted? Maybe I did something shameful and don’t want it to be public? Maybe something that is implied to be shameful – like a false arrest. Let’s say you were pulled over for a moving violation in a red light district? A little careful editing and it could look very bad.

      Malicious editing would be best handled through libel. It'd be the same if someone posted an article stating only that "MysteriousPreacher was stopped by police in an area frequented by prostitutes and drug dealers". Technically that could be accurate, yet it's horribly misleading if this area is a common route from x to y, and I was pulled over for a broken light while heading to the soup kitchen to do some volunteer work. Even with this difficulty in mind, it's better than making it illegal to record and publish such incidents.

      There should be some restrictions, such as when a court has ordered that the name of a person cannot be disclosed. In general though, it's far better than the slippery slope of sparing the blushes of people.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    25. Re:What about my privacy? by davydagger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      the problem is that many of them are "secret" cameras.

      So the system can ignore evidence, and only use the recordings when they deem fit.

      I think that all police and government owned cameras not installed with a warrant, should produce footage which is public domain, and made available as web cams, with recorded copies available via FIOA

    26. Re:What about my privacy? by jittles · · Score: 1

      Are you in public? then your right to privacy does not include filming you about your business. That is ANYBODY.

      And what if the person was minding their own business having a mental breakdown inside of the privacy of their own home? What then? They weren't in public until the police dragged them outside. I'm not trying to argue one way or another here, just merely pointing out that the person may not have been in public by choice.

    27. Re:What about my privacy? by Remus+Shepherd · · Score: 1

      Maybe I did something shameful and don't want it to be public?

      This is the age of YouTube. Do people have shame anymore? Be logical -- the fame you get from posting your embarrassing video can be leveraged into money that might just cover your legal and/or medical expenses.

      --
      Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
    28. Re:What about my privacy? by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      So we can say it's a good thing that people can video tape you in public, keeps the riff-Raff in line and pants on.

      Or gives them an audience to play to. Some people seem to revel in making arses of themselves to as big an audience as is possible.

      I think the editing could constitute libel. Good luck though establishing that if the content shown is technically factual.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    29. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that's a problem it should already be a problem if there are no cops involved - so this is red herring. Cops shouldn't interfere with filming of them. If there are issues with the video being published then those issues are issues regardless of whether cops are involved or not, so any legislation on that area shouldn't be specific to cops, except if it is to expressly allow filming cops in all circumstances. We could say you just can't publish that film if making/publishing said film would not be legal if it didn't include cops.

    30. Re:What about my privacy? by crakbone · · Score: 1

      Would you like to be arrested for child molestation and sodomy and then have all charges quietly dropped? You would be ostracized by your neighbors in nothing flat. Any church group, volunteer center or group would look at you funny. And if you worked at a school or worked with children you would be fired immediately to protect the reputation to the school.

    31. Re:What about my privacy? by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Just because you are 'in public' does not make everything you do public.

      Sadly, that's the part with the phrase 'reasonable expectation of privacy' that everyone gets so wrong it's almost backwards.

      You could be in public with your spouse, look around to ensure that no one is within earshot, and whisper something into their ear. You DO have a reasonable expectation that such a conversation would be private.

      If someone was down the way with a parabolic mic, it could be argued that such eavesdropping went beyond what people should expect to occur. The couple had every expectation, and even took efforts to ensure that the whispered message was private, even though they were speaking in a public place.

      Now, I won't argue that such a thing would be upheld in every case, but it is an exception to the concept that a public space = no privacy of anything.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    32. Re:What about my privacy? by hondo77 · · Score: 1

      So if someone runs up and pantses you and another takes a pic of you in your skivvies, you were in public so there's no recourse for them posting it all over the Facebook? You should have just guarded your pants better or worn suspenders?

      Or use it as evidence of assault and battery, bullying, hazing, etc.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    33. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Employers can install security cameras because they own the property that the cameras are installed on and the fact that there is no law that otherwise prohibits them from doing so (the exception is bathrooms as you said). Workplaces are not "public areas"; you cannot walk into an office uninvited and start filming (or anything else really).

    34. Re:What about my privacy? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So if someone runs up and pantses you and another takes a pic of you in your skivvies, you were in public so there's no recourse for them posting it all over the Facebook?

      No - "pantsing" someone, i.e. making unwelcome physical contact, is called "assault," possibly even "sexual assault," and is illegal. Posting a picture, obtained illegally, in a public forum is also a crime, probably harassment (but more likely, defamation), and is prosecutable in civil court at the very least.

      Videotaping cops doing their jobs in a public place is not assault, nor is it harassment. Also worth note - the cops do not get to press charges on your behalf (as the cop in this tale apparently took it upon herself to do), they merely serve the charges being filed and make arrests if necessary.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    35. Re:What about my privacy? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Did you not read the rest of the post? That suggestion is great for genuine shit, but what exactly should someone not do in order to avoid a false arrest?

      Stay as far away from cops as possible, at all times. Or, appear to be very, very wealthy - that seems to be the best option.

      sad, but true.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    36. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and now you change the subject. That would be lying or fraud. We have laws for that already.

      Not quite. I can't find it easily, but there was a great video that showed how your perspective of an event changes based on what part is shown to you. It starts out with a man running at someone looking like he's attacking them, then a different clip of the same sequence shows what happens after he grabs the person and tackles them out of the way of a falling object. Our news programs do this all of the time. Football games are not action-packed, but with all of the replays you think it is. Why do you think people in North Korea or China have completely different views about their government than others? Do you think your own government is how you see it portrayed on TV?

      What's the truth? Who knows. It's up to you to make a guess.

    37. Re:What about my privacy? by Synerg1y · · Score: 1
    38. Re:What about my privacy? by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      I don't see why a false arrest is shameful, especially when it's shown to be false

      Arrests are often published in the newspapers. Acquittals, dismissals, or dropped charges? Not so much.

      Would you unconditionally allow someone who was arrested for child abuse watch your child without reservations even if they were exhonorated? Almost every parent would have slight misgivings. And given the choice between someone who was arrested, but exhonorated, and a person who was never even arrested, would choose the latter.

      False arrests aren't shameful in a perfectly logical world, but we don't live in such a world. In this world, you can be the VICTIM of a crime and still be blamed by the community (See also "Asking for it, or should have known better." mentality)

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    39. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's noted that the person being arrested was having a mental health breakdown. Photographing people having that and then posting it online is usually classified as "cyber bullying".

      What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.
      What happens in public, stays in public.
      What happens on the internet, stays on the internet.

      Don't like any of the above? Don't go to Vegas, don't go out in public, and don't go on the internet. Problem solved for us sane people.

    40. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 0

      Not "automagically" but "automatically". In fact, not just police officers, but most decent human beings do that.

      The fact that you find this so surprising says little about the police officers in question and a lot about you as a human being.

    41. Re:What about my privacy? by alexander_686 · · Score: 1

      “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes” – Mark Twain

      Slandering with ½ truths, innuendos, and guilt by association is much easier than repairing the damage.

    42. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Two-way nature of the relationship between politicians, vs one way relationship of bully and his/her victim.

    43. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Decent human beings.

    44. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Where did you get that I was claiming this was done? I was merely pointing out the most common thing people do with such videos, and what officer said she was trying to prevent.

    45. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      You may wish to re-read the story. Police officer in question clearly stated that she her reason for taking the camera was aiming to protect the person who was having mental problems and was photographed by random third party in process of police getting him under control.

    46. Re:What about my privacy? by alexander_686 · · Score: 1

      I know there is a difference between anonymity and privacy,

      I know that anonymity is disappearing due to technology.

      I just don’t the idea of a all seeing eye tracking me everywhere – be it state or private. I find the trends disturbing. What I am searching for is an answer – a balance.

    47. Re:What about my privacy? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Bullying vs. exposing police, I bote for exposing police. How they deal with mental breakdowns is also of public interest.

      In any case, "Congress shall pass no law" doesn't allow for exceptions for really intense feels.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    48. Re:What about my privacy? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Sure there is, pantsing someone is an assault and being pantsed in public isn't part of your public employment.

    49. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Should public officials have privacy while on duty? Probably not. But what about citizens?

      Should citizens have privacy while on duty?

      I didn't know they went on duty.

    50. Re:What about my privacy? by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was merely pointing out the most common thing people do with such videos, and what officer said she was trying to prevent.

      Note that the officer said this AFTER THE FACT while trying to justify their own illegal behavior.

      Also, it is irrelevant what the individuals mental state was, this was an event taking place in PUBLIC involving PUBLIC SERVENTS. In other words, a PUBLIC EVENT.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    51. Re:What about my privacy? by GoogleShill · · Score: 1

      ...if they first claim it was being taken in as evidence, then later they *deleted* the file--doesn't that constitute destruction of evidence (the source recording) on the police department's part?

      Yes, it is absolutely destruction of evidence, but good luck finding prosecutor willing to press charges. Judges, prosecutors and cops all feel like they are on the same team, and they are not going to fight against one another.

    52. Re:What about my privacy? by arth1 · · Score: 2

      There is *no privacy* in a *public* place. By definition. For any party, anywhere.

      This is dead wrong, and doesn't get more true by being repeated. See, there is this legal phrase "reasonable expectation of privacy" that applies even in public spaces.

      If you walk on the street, you have every right to expect someone not pushing a camera under your skirt or taking infra-red camera pictures to check out your body.
      And if you hike in a national forest, you have every right to not being charged with public exposure if you take a whizz behind a tree.

      A public servant on duty in a public space, on the other hand, has no reasonable expectation of privacy.

    53. Re:What about my privacy? by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 1

      What police officers are trying to do when they arrest and file bullshit charges against videographers who record their actions is suppressing attempts to hold police officers accountable. Public accountability for the police is not something that should be "balanced" against other concerns because the moment you attempt to balance police accountability, you're going to find a cops finger on the scales.

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    54. Re:What about my privacy? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      You REALLY need understand intent better, and liberty.

      --
      Good-bye
    55. Re:What about my privacy? by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 1

      If the police are dragging someone out of their home, holding the police accountable for their actions is still important. Good luck getting official recordings out of police hands if police misconduct is alleged.

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    56. Re:What about my privacy? by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 1

      The best way to counter this is with more information. You don't counter this by giving the state the authority to confiscate and destroy recordings that the state or its agents find inconvenient.

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    57. Re:What about my privacy? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Upskirt you may have a point, but infrared? Fair game all day long.

      --
      Good-bye
    58. Re:What about my privacy? by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Just because a police officer states something doesn't make it true. Lying is as natural to them as breathing. They are trained to lie. What she did was illegal. Regardless of her alleged motivations. She should be charged with theft at the very least.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    59. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then don't look up in the sky in a few months when the Police (Local, State and Federal?) will have Drones covering all public thorough fairs.

    60. Re:What about my privacy? by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Based on my own personal experience with cops in this country (does not apply to cops in other countries that I've lived in) there is a very good chance any particular cop you encounter in real life will not be a "decent human being". Far from it. If you aren't expecting a violent, dishonest, angry bully or thug you could end up in a lot of trouble. Maybe even dead. Treat them like normal people at your peril. I naively did so, and I'm lucky to have only suffered fractured ribs, a damaged knee, a severe concussion with lasting memory impairment, and serious felony charges which might have landed me in state prison for several years. My advice: expect them to be at least as cruel, violent, unpredictable, and dangerous as members of a street gang in South Central LA.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    61. Re:What about my privacy? by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      They don't just feel like they are on the same team. They are on the same team. So, yes, short of obvious video evidence that has not been confiscated and deleted, very few DAs are going to prosecute a member of the police force that they work with every day. The evidence would have to be absolutely overwhelming and probably public.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    62. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Let's just add murder (she killed freedom), perverted sex acts (that phone has vibration mode, clearly she played with it) and sodomy (because all cops love sodomizing innocent people, and she probably did it with that very phone).

      Because you know, why stop at imaginary theft, or calling every police officer everywhere a natural born liar.

    63. Re:What about my privacy? by erroneus · · Score: 1

      This makes me wonder about the people who go around taking pictures of women's butts.

    64. Re:What about my privacy? by capebretonsux · · Score: 1

      I think the fact that you automatically (automagically?) believe that the cop has enough psychiatric training to arrive at such a conclusion after just minutes (I'm assuming) of encountering the individual 'having a breakdown' is pretty interesting. I'd have to wonder what qualifies this cop as being able to determine the difference between a person having a mental breakdown and someone who's consumed a quantity of 'recreational substances'. If indeed the person was having a breakdown, I'd agree, that shouldn't be uploaded anywhere. But videos of drunks and crackheads being arrested by cops occasionally happens on prime-time TV, doesn't it? The point is whether or not you believe that the cop in question missed his chance at a shining career in mental health with his diagnostic acumen, or whether or not he was just pulling it out of his ass to cover himself after the fact.

      One scenario isn't funny, the other is. Hard to say without a psychiatrist/psychologist weighing in. Personally I believe the cop is full of it because he sounds full of it, trying to charge a bystander weeks later with a bs charge.

    65. Re:What about my privacy? by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      You would be having a "mental health breakdown" too if a cop was beating you badly enough to bloody your face. Of course the police report won't see it that way. According to the police report you had a psychotic breakdown and began slamming your face very hard into the pavement. Why did you do it? Because you are crazy! Or you suffered from temporary insanity. And out of respect for your privacy the cop who was either beating you or covering for the one who was beating you will confiscate that shameful video of you beating your head against the ground out of respect for your privacy. The video of your embarrassing behavior will then be deleted so that even you will not have to watch it again. The police are so considerate and kind.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    66. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a terrible experience, and all I can say is that I'm lucky to never have run into that particular individual.

    67. Re:What about my privacy? by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      How is snatching a video camera from someone not theft? She clearly had no right to confiscate that camera regardless of how passionately she felt about protecting the privacy of some stranger (haha). If you or I did that and it was witnessed by a police officer we would be arrested and charged. Probably with more than just theft. Also, if these cops were so goodhearted and honest how do explain the trumped up charges weeks after the event? Those cops are also guilty of malicious or false prosecution if they go after him for those bullshit contempt of cop charges.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    68. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      You've never seen a person having a severe nervous breakdown in your life?

      Police officers deal with those types on weekly basis in most places. They're one of the "returning customer" types for them. They really don't require any "special training" to spot. Just being a person with average observation skills and reasonable amount of common sense is enough.

    69. Re:What about my privacy? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      So then, if and when that was done, then the person who'd have posted it would be in violation of the law, and police could go after him.

    70. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Are you familiar with concept of "projection"?

      You had one really bad experience with one police officer as stated in another part of this thread, and now you're clearly projecting this experience on all people who share the profession.

      Notably, I can find a person with very bad experiences about any profession. Does that mean that no person holding any profession at all is trustworthy?

    71. Re:What about my privacy? by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2

      It wasn't just the one officer who beat me and nearly killed me. Who may even have intended to kill me. It was the other cop who agreed to cover for him right in front of me while I was lying on the ground in severe pain, bloody, and barely able to move.

      And it was the other 15-20 officers standing within 20 feet of me (it was a sobriety checkpoint) who watched the whole thing and did nothing and allowed the violent thug-cop to charge me with beating him up in addition to a long list of other charges including assault with a deadly weapon (later dropped by the DA: there was no weapon).

      Before that, although I knew that cops had a tendency to be grown-up schoolyard bullies, I had not had realized what they were really like. Growing up I have encountered many bullies. Guys for whom being tough and kicking ass are their most important priorities in life. But those guys nearly always had limits. They may not have been the kindest and most empathetic people around but there were lines they would not intentionally cross. They wouldn't habitually murder people who disrespect them or even put them in the hospital. Cops are like those guys except that for them there is no line. Because they know they can do whatever they want and their fellow cops will cover for them and they will never face even the slightest punishment.

      What brought all of that wrath of vengeance upon me? What provoked the sociopathic murderous cop? I calmly, quietly and deliberately said, "fuck you" to him in response to him calling me an asshole. He called me an asshole because I was complaining to him about how I thought suspicionless road blocks were wrong and unconstitutional. I was complaining while waiting them to find their breathalyzer. Although they tried to charge me with DUI I tested 0.0 on the breathalyzer test every time. So the DA dropped those charges. I don't drink alcohol. Nor do I smoke pot or take any illicit drugs. The cop tried to imply in his report that I may have been high and that red eyes were the reason they sent me to secondary. Even if I wanted to smoke pot I couldn't due to existing lung problems. The real reason I was sent to secondary is that I was trying to stand up for my rights. I refused to be interrogated. I didn't answer their questions at the initial stop. Standing up for your rights can be quite dangerous in the US.

      Now I simply stick to back roads on Friday and Saturday nights and holidays after say 8pm. Needless to say, I am also terrified of cops. If I ever had another encounter with them I would probably assume the cop in question was another psycho and run for my life.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    72. Re:What about my privacy? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Trying to prevent?

      "I am anti-cyber-bullying officer 456. My task is to prevent all cyber bullying. Videos can be used for cyber-bullying. Therefore, the logical course of action to prevent cyber-bullying is to destroy all cameras."
      "I am anti-murder robo-456. My task is to prevent all murder. Only humans can have the evil intent required for murder. Therefore, the logical course of action to prevent murder is to kill all humans."

      Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

    73. Re:What about my privacy? by davydagger · · Score: 1

      How does this work, that once a person is "mentally ill"

      that

      1. the cop knows instantly

      2. he'll be immune from mistreating the person, he'd otherwise mistreat if not "mentally ill"

      "The fact that you find this so surprising says little about the police officers in question and a lot about you as a human being."
      that what, I don't close my eyes to police brutality, the potential of such, and the need of citizens to protect against this by filming the police? This need does not go away when someone is labeled "mentally ill".

      I was being snark earlier, and I guess you missed my point, and I need to clearly state it, I apologize.

      You know what, I think your right, we should stop accusing cops of police brutality, because the only real reason for these accusations is weak character of the accusers. What do us pitiful plebeians know that our political, corporate, and police overlords don't.

    74. Re:What about my privacy? by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      So if someone runs up and pantses you and another takes a pic of you in your skivvies, you were in public so there's no recourse for them posting it all over the Facebook?

      No - "pantsing" someone, i.e. making unwelcome physical contact, is called "assault," possibly even "sexual assault," and is illegal. Posting a picture, obtained illegally, in a public forum is also a crime, probably harassment (but more likely, defamation), and is prosecutable in civil court at the very least.

      Videotaping cops doing their jobs in a public place is not assault, nor is it harassment. Also worth note - the cops do not get to press charges on your behalf (as the cop in this tale apparently took it upon herself to do), they merely serve the charges being filed and make arrests if necessary.

      Yeah ok the pics/vid of the *cops* is fine. But what about the other individuals in the frame of the shot? Do they have a right not to be filmed?

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    75. Re:What about my privacy? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Police officers deal with those types on weekly basis in most places.

      You're a cunt, but replying to you doesn't make me a gynecologist.

      They really don't require any "special training" to spot.

      What makes you think they'd try? Much simpler (and more fun) to just beat the shit out them and invent some garbage to justify it later.

      Just being a person with average observation skills and reasonable amount of common sense is enough.

      I thought we were talking about cops.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    76. Re:What about my privacy? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      A broken clock is right twice a day.

      Second thought, he's more like a stuck calendar.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    77. Re:What about my privacy? by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      Oh please. The police took the guy's camera, claiming it was "evidence", the citation against him is for a violation that does not even exist, the police initially refused to return his camera, when he does get it back there's no footage of the event, and the police report claims there never was anything on the camera. I'm sorry, but that's suspicious as hell.

      Regardless of the GP's personal history with bad cops, please don't exceed his hyperbole with your own.

    78. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look up kelly thomas and the fullerton pd. He was having some mental health issues as well and the police beat him to death.

    79. Re:What about my privacy? by Bremic · · Score: 1

      Based on my own personal experience with cops in this country (does not apply to cops in other countries that I've lived in) there is a very good chance any particular cop you encounter in real life will not be a "decent human being". Far from it. If you aren't expecting a violent, dishonest, angry bully or thug you could end up in a lot of trouble. Maybe even dead.

      This sounds like to gets back into the Gun Control issue again. All police in the US work with the assumption that whoever they are dealing with is armed, so any hostility is considered a "threat". If the assumption is reversed, the "threat" becomes a "nuisance", and you are less likely to get violent reactions from the police.

    80. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually no it isn't fair game at all. You can try that excuse at your trial if you like though.

    81. Re:What about my privacy? by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

      Simply posting a video online is not cyber bullying. There's this little detail you left out called intent.

    82. Re:What about my privacy? by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

      Nope. If they did the paparazzi wouldn't exist.

    83. Re:What about my privacy? by russotto · · Score: 1

      You would be having a "mental health breakdown" too if a cop was beating you badly enough to bloody your face.

      That's not a "mental health breakdown". That's "resisting arrest" and "assaulting an officer" by damaging his knuckles over and over with your face.

    84. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they are out in public, no. They have the same right to privacy that you and I do out in public: none.

      Ever heard of reasonable expectation of privacy?? Might want to read up on that.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy

      Examples of places where a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy are person's residence or hotel room[1] and public places which have been specifically provided by businesses or the public sector to ensure privacy, such as public restrooms, private portions of jailhouses,[2] or a phone booth.

      Of course this particular case under no circumstances satisfies this test, nevertheless, there is expectation of privacy while in public places.

    85. Re:What about my privacy? by bmo · · Score: 0

      But those aren't even related to what we're talking about.

      Go be pedantic elsewhere.

      --
      BMO

    86. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Assault is the threat of violence. Battery involves physical contact.

    87. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    88. Re:What about my privacy? by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Gun control varies by state. My state has some of the strictest gun control in the country. It is very, very difficult to get permission to own a gun. So your theory doesn't really apply in my case. When cops do run into a civilian with a gun they tend to find something to arrest them for. They hate the idea of anyone who is not a cop owning a gun.

      I think it's more of a cultural thing, but I'm not sure. I figured cops were more or less the same everywhere. Until I started living abroad and realized how unusual the US was in this regard. Not that other countries don't have bad cops. It's just on an entirely different scale over here.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    89. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      You also thought that police officer in question was a "he". Or that police routinely beat up people for fun.

    90. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Except that this wasn't about the police mistreating the person being arrested. This was about police officer trying to protect the person being arrested from having video of him being arrested be publicized.

      Seriously, why bring up "police brutality" in the case where there was none?

    91. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      People who actually have been victims of cyber bullying, as well as their families would like to have a word with you I imagine.

    92. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Your story bears eerie resemblance to a family member of a friend who got raped.

      She was utterly terrified of all men for years, to the point of not being able to get of the house. I remember her leaving the room whenever I came to visit the friend looking at me like I'm a monster.

      Does that really make me a rapist though?

    93. Re:What about my privacy? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Yup. As said, they handled it badly. However, as is the case nowadays after it's online, victim is pretty much boned. There are few if any ways to find out who actually posted it and it's not like it will be taken down unless there's a real uproar for some reason, like if the victim commits suicide because of it and media chooses to pick up that as a story.

    94. Re:What about my privacy? by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Then don't look up in the sky in a few months when the Police (Local, State and Federal?) will have Drones covering all public thorough fairs.

      I think the word you're looking for is "thoroughfares".

      What, you mean those aren't glorified target-drones for geek experimenters to try out various methods of bringing them down and/or taking them over?

      Wow, will our drone-flying overlords ever be surprised! Hope they bought *lots* of replacements! Maybe they'll be able to recycle some of the debris.

      As a bonus, the target drones...err, surveillance drones...will also help people perfect methods & techniques for civilians to take out other aircraft with threat-potentials to the civilian population like police/military helicopters as well, should they go all "jackboot-y" and "shoot-y" on us.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    95. Re:What about my privacy? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      So if someone runs up and pantses you and another takes a pic of you in your skivvies, you were in public so there's no recourse for them posting it all over the Facebook?

      No - "pantsing" someone, i.e. making unwelcome physical contact, is called "assault," possibly even "sexual assault," and is illegal. Posting a picture, obtained illegally, in a public forum is also a crime, probably harassment (but more likely, defamation), and is prosecutable in civil court at the very least.

      Videotaping cops doing their jobs in a public place is not assault, nor is it harassment. Also worth note - the cops do not get to press charges on your behalf (as the cop in this tale apparently took it upon herself to do), they merely serve the charges being filed and make arrests if necessary.

      Yeah ok the pics/vid of the *cops* is fine. But what about the other individuals in the frame of the shot? Do they have a right not to be filmed?

      No.

      Absolutely no one has a right to privacy in a public place. Period.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    96. Re:What about my privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you are in public (walking down a public street, at the mall, in a court house), your rights to privacy are greatly reduced. You do have a right to not have someone looking (or filming) up your dress or filming you in a public restroom; however, you do not have any other right to privacy when walking, talking, farting, screaming, committing a crime, stopping someone else from committing a crime, or any other number of acts people do in a public place.

      This all applies whether you are private citizen, non-citizen, public official, a member of the military, or a regular civil servant. Common sense and respect should keep most people from publishing explicit details of a injured person after an accident, but there's no law against it. As for altercations with the law, the only person who would be against it would be a person who thinks they aren't following the correct laws or policies.

    97. Re:What about my privacy? by t1oracle · · Score: 1

      Running gets you screwed. You are supposed to be polite, respectful, and not suspicious. If you talk back to police you are asking for trouble. Once you have a record though you'll have problems until you get it expunged. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time can get you in trouble. You just have to be smarter than the situation. Just be glad you aren't black or Latino.

    98. Re:What about my privacy? by Occams · · Score: 1

      Thew people who the police are dealing with who deserve the privacy. How would you feel if the police trying to stop you beating up your wife (or vice versa) were taped.

      --
      Heavy is the head that wears the tinfoil hat.
    99. Re:What about my privacy? by Occams · · Score: 1

      The door to the brothel you frequent is a public place. Can we film it.?

      --
      Heavy is the head that wears the tinfoil hat.
    100. Re: What about my privacy? by Occams · · Score: 1

      Public toilets are a public place, can I tape you there?

      --
      Heavy is the head that wears the tinfoil hat.
    101. Re:What about my privacy? by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      The door to the brothel you frequent is a public place. Can we film it.?

      Yes.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    102. Re:What about my privacy? by davydagger · · Score: 1

      "Except that this wasn't about the police mistreating the person being arrested"
      If you take the cops's argument at face value. If you do this all the time, there never was any police brutality ever, and people make everything up.

      Seriously, why bring up "police brutality" in the case where there was none?

      because there is a chance of it happening everytime the cops arrest someone.

      Police brutality has gone far done since people have been able to film cops on cell phones and send the videos to their lawyers/someone elses lawyers/prosecutors.

      Speaking of allowing people to defend themselves in court..

      Speaking of mentally ill and court, what does system do the mentally ill have to defend themselves from unfair accusations of transgressive behaviour by authorities?

      Granted, you're unwilling to hear arguments of police brutality because someone is labeled "mentally ill".

      We need to stop letting authorities use the term "mentally ill" to mean "prisoners that don't have the rights prisoners normally get".

  14. OMG Teh Socalsim! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For fraks sake. Will SCOTUS please making a damn ruling that absolutely allows for any and all recording of police officers in a public place no matter what?

    But that would be Socialism!

  15. They didn't read HIPAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I have had cause to research this in a different set of circumstances. The public is not bound by HIPAA. Only health professionals and organizations routinely dealing in health information are covered.

    1. Re:They didn't read HIPAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, and I don't recall seeing criminal penalties. Only civil.

    2. Re:They didn't read HIPAA by The+Last+Gunslinger · · Score: 1

      And since when does enforcement of federal law fall under the operational jurisdiction of county sheriffs?

    3. Re:They didn't read HIPAA by superdave80 · · Score: 1

      I thought this too, but I read that an update to the law in 2009 gives state AGs the power to bring civil suits against offenders.

    4. Re:They didn't read HIPAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good point. As another poster said, this guy is set for life (of luxury not jail).

  16. Scanners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet you can hear live scanner feeds of people's names who are suicidal being announced over the police scanners, with addresses.
    In fact, I'd dare bet that if there's a local scanner feed of that police department, Radio Reference archives scanner audio IIRC for three months and
    can almost guarantee you'll find a HIPPA violation there.

    1. Re:Scanners by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      In fact, I'd dare bet that if there's a local scanner feed of that police department, Radio Reference archives scanner audio IIRC for three months and can almost guarantee you'll find a HIPPA violation there.

      First, its HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996), not HIPPA.

      Second, since law enforcement agencies are not generally covered entities under HIPAA (which generally applies to health care providers, health plans, and health care clearinghouses, and their contracted business associates) in the first place, it might be harder to find a HIPAA violation than you think.

    2. Re:Scanners by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Second, since law enforcement agencies are not generally covered entities under HIPAA (which generally applies to health care providers, health plans, and health care clearinghouses, and their contracted business associates) in the first place, it might be harder to find a HIPAA violation than you think.

      Though that's all true, it still didn't stop this particular officer from arresting a non-health worker for allegedly committing a HIPPA violation.

      Ze street, she runs both ways!

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  17. HIPAA law... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Protects the consumer in regards to their data with organizations.

    HIPPA law does not protect you from a person running around screaming you have aids if they find out because you told them or because they were smart enough to put 2 and 2 together.

  18. Cops by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 0

    If cops were honestly screened for sociopathy, what percentage would test positive? 30%? 40%? The smaller the burg, that number nears unity; former high school bullies and little-man complexes that found an outlet for their aggression.

    1. Re:Cops by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I have no doubt there is a significant correlation between sociopathy and police officers. Female police officers would do a bit better, but on the whole those guys have about as much empathy as a rock. Eyes like dolls' eyes. Either no emotion at all, or just uncontrolled anger. Not the slightest hint of remorse no matter what they do.

      It would make a very interesting psychological/sociological study and/or documentary. I might consider filming such a documentary myself except that I am too terrified of cops to have any voluntary contact with them at all. Also, I suspect sociopathy would be high in prison guards as well. I couldn't help noticing that Charles Graner was a prison guard before joining the Army and getting shipped to Iraq, where he would become famous (mostly due to the astonishing photos Lynndie took for him).

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  19. time to record video from a distance by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    ever hear of a telephoto lens?

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:time to record video from a distance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Better yet, have a hidden recording device while prominently displaying another recording device.

      You can then use the hidden recorded evidence during your lawsuit regarding illegal police confiscation of your obviously recorded evidence.

      Its time to play a little entrapment vs the police now and see how they like it.

    2. Re:time to record video from a distance by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      That works, but really only if you know something is going to happen ahead of time. If there's a scheduled protest and you suspect something will go down, you could set up with a telephoto in a nearby hotel or apartment (that's how Western photographers got their Tiananmen Square footage). But a lot of these police-filming incidents are just some regular person who happens to walk by, see something, and pull out their cell-phone camera. The odds of someone just happening to spot an incident from two blocks away while they're carrying a telephoto aren't quite as good.

    3. Re:time to record video from a distance by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      That isn't entrapment. Entrapment would require that you asked the cop to do something illegal.

    4. Re:time to record video from a distance by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      In some states they could prosecute you for the hidden listening device under surveillance laws. It might work in some states though.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  20. Moral of the story.... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    Record the police with a telephoto lens from far enough away that you can run and lose them when they try to steal your property.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Moral of the story.... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Do you carry one with you at all times, just in case? Or perhaps there's some website where you can check in advance when & where police misconduct will occur?

      Nope, you're just talking shit again.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  21. Who doesn't have a medical condition? by greg_barton · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Can I be arrested for taking a video of someone with a limp? How about bad acne? How are any public cameras legal? How are police dash cams legal? Wouldn't these all be HIPAA violations?

    1. Re:Who doesn't have a medical condition? by admdrew · · Score: 1

      Why would you be arrested? The guy with the camera in this article wasn't arrested.

    2. Re:Who doesn't have a medical condition? by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      He wasn't arrested, but many people attempting to film cops do get arrested for it. Of course the charges aren't, "filming a cop". Cops have plenty of contempt of cop charges to throw at you and many aren't above planting evidence for drug or weapon charges either. Annoying or angering a cop isn't officially a crime, but it is quite likely you will be punished. That's why I have so much admiration for those guys who go out and intentionally film cops in places like sobriety road blocks knowing beforehand that they are likely to be arrested as soon as they point a camera at a cop.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  22. Can't help but wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did the video contain evidence of the police accosting the man being taken away in the ambulance?

    Likelihood is high.

  23. Oddly enough the solution is a new law by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There needs to be a new law that makes it clearly illegal for the police to interfere with someone recording them in a public place. Given the fact that police can be menacing it should be illegal for them to even ask you to stop or actively try to block you. In the same way they can't continue to ask you questions once you invoke your right to have an attorney present and have invoked your right to silence. The penalty for the law should be multi fold. Potential felony for the cop but also a minimum fine partially payable to the victim. This would serve to get more people videoing the police and the insult of the police having to write out checks to people they tried to intimidate would be golden.

    The next tier of offense would be if the police then erase the video. With that there should be a minimum mandatory sentence along with a huge fine, again with much going to the victim.

    Lastly there should be no exceptions tossed in as the slightest wedge given to the police would be abused to hell; So no being able to say it is evidence. If someone videos the police then the video should be as sacrosanct as client attorney privilege; if they want to youtube it then fine if they want to keep it safe then their choice.

    It all boils down to information is power. Previously it was the whole your word against a policeman's which basically made their side of a story the only side of a story. But now the public has massive power not only through the video but through the near frictionless ability to distribute that video. 20 years ago if you were to say video the police pulling over a clearly drunk powerful politician even the local media might not touch that video assuming the police let you walk 5 feet away with it. Now you put it on youtube and the police suddenly do their job and charge the politician and while the prosecutor might not go for the throat will at least go through the minimum motions.

    But all arguments that this somehow interferes with the police being able to do their jobs is false. The police have the clear ability to abuse or not abuse their power. But someone videoing the police does not change what happens they are not able to create abuse they can potentially try to show something out of context or add a colourful commentary but most people aren't stupid and will see through that in a flash. My guess is that any policeman that gets frustrated with being recorded is a policeman who doesn't want to be forced to obey the rules or knows they just broke the rules. They are lashing out because of frustration not because they think they are in the right.

    This all reminds me of a local Indian restaurant lashing out after being closed for a zillion health violations; they argued that the health inspectors didn't understand Indian cooking nor did they think the health inspectors had any right to be in their kitchens. They argued that their insurance didn't cover health inspectors only employees, that the health inspectors were exaggerating, and that the inspection reports should not be public as the public wouldn't understand them. These all sound like the arguments that police make against recording them.

    1. Re:Oddly enough the solution is a new law by Luckyo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nice rant. Now get off the high horse and read the actual story.

    2. Re:Oddly enough the solution is a new law by Lemming42 · · Score: 1

      To be clear, I share your sentiment, and feel police should be discouraged from interfering with someone recording them in a public place.

      I'm not sure how I could craft a law that satisfied the spirit of that without creating weird loopholes.
      Would I be able to shield myself from arrest or interference when doing something else simply by whipping out a video camera?

      I also agree that destroying the video should be akin to destroying evidence, but how do you prove that it happened? Do all devices record the fact that they're recording? What's to prevent me from pretending to film and then claiming the police destroyed the video?

    3. Re:Oddly enough the solution is a new law by steelfood · · Score: 1

      There already are such laws. Good luck getting them to apply to the police in addition to the common people.

      As Andrew Jackson said, "[The SCOTUS] has made his decision; now let him enforce it!"

      Typically, such things now fall under the jurisdiction of a Federal agency like the FBI. But who's watching the FBI? How many people have gotten served with a National Security Letter again?

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    4. Re:Oddly enough the solution is a new law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There needs to be no law"

      FTFY

    5. Re:Oddly enough the solution is a new law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is it that in every story remotely to liberty I read the same utter nonsense from you? Are you a paid shill or something? Geez.

  24. Not charged with HIPAA violation by DragonWriter · · Score: 4, Informative

    While the headline of TFS asserts that he was charged with a HIPAA violation, the TFA makes clear that he was, in fact, charged with "obstruction of legal process and disorderly conduct"; the notes on the citation describing the event mention a HIPAA data privacy violation, but that's the description of the officer's version of the facts surrounding the charge, not the charged offense.

    1. Re:Not charged with HIPAA violation by admdrew · · Score: 1

      This. A good chunk of the rest of the comments here seemed to have missed this. Also, what's with people mentioning the guy with the camera being arrested?

    2. Re:Not charged with HIPAA violation by admdrew · · Score: 2

      Do you know how to read (and understand what you've read)? As DrawgonWriter (and you!) said, the written citation mentions a HIPAA violation, he wasn't charged with a HIPAA violation.

    3. Re:Not charged with HIPAA violation by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      It was on the freaking citation!

      I refer you to what I wrote in GP:

      the notes on the citation describing the event mention a HIPAA data privacy violation, but that's the description of the officer's version of the facts surrounding the charge, not the charged offense.

      The notes on the citation also note that he refused to identify himself. But just like he isn't charged with a HIPAA violation, he's not being charged with "refusing to identify himself"; he's charged with "obstruction of legal process and disorderly conduct". The notes on the citation explain the officer's story of events that provides the context for the charges, but it isn't the legal charge.

  25. HIPAA doesnt apply.. by segfault_0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    HIPAA protects patients from medical entities and corporations, not from citizens on the street who have nothing to do with the dispensation of medical care.

    CROOKED COPS.

    --

    I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something. (Charles Manson)
    1. Re:HIPAA doesnt apply.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This, a thousand times. That man is not considered a "covered entity" according to HIPAA; the law literally doesn't apply to him.

    2. Re:HIPAA doesnt apply.. by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's razor, Robert J. Hanlon

      "... unless you're talking about an LEO. Both are equally likely, and not mutually exclusive." - Me.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  26. Shouldn't the charges be dropped? by Tyketto · · Score: 1

    Follow the logic here, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong. He was charged with violating HIPAA, based on the evidence confiscated by police during the evidence. Since such evidence doesn't exist (as the police erased it/seems to have gone missing), shouldn't the charges be dropped? For all intents and purposes, the guy was arrested and charged for something that has not happened/did not happen. This would mean that they would either a) have to let the guy go, based on lack of evidence, or b) produce the undoctored evidence, showing the missteps that police took. Either way, the guy walks, or the police gets dinged with evidence tampering.

    1. Re:Shouldn't the charges be dropped? by admdrew · · Score: 1

      I don't agree with what went down, but he wasn't arrested, nor was he "charged with violating HIPAA".

    2. Re:Shouldn't the charges be dropped? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Follow the logic here, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

      Ok, you're wrong. On pretty much every salient point.

      He was charged with violating HIPAA

      No, he was charged with obstruction of legal process and disorderly conduct (the /. headline says otherwise, but the /. headline is wrong: RTFA.)

      based on the evidence confiscated by police during the evidence.

      No, he was charged based on what he allegedly did during the encounter with police, not based on the evidence on the camera. Whether there is sufficient evidence to maintain those charges is a matter for a court to decide, but its not at all unheard of for a trial to proceed based on the testimony of a few witnesses.

      This would mean that they would either a) have to let the guy go, based on lack of evidence, or b) produce the undoctored evidence, showing the missteps that police took.

      This might be true in a system where testimony of witnesses (including the arresting officer and other officers) was not evidence. However, in the American legal system, witness testimony is a fairly important kind of evidence.

      Either way, the guy walks, or the police gets dinged with evidence tampering.

      If there is sufficient evidence of evidence tampering, someone might get dinged with it, but by your standard of evidence (which clearly excludes witness testimony), there is no evidence, and by a more normal standard the evidence is mixed and controvertible.

  27. Law is complicated by Improv · · Score: 1

    If you're used to dealing with HIPAA (and as someone who has done human subjects research, I have), it's easy to not understand the borders of that; HIPAA training describes a set of norms for dealing with your subjects/patients, but it isn't legal advice per se. Someone in the heat of the moment who has never had to think about if HIPAA extends to other people might easily make the wrong call on the law.

    People will learn how to handle this better in the future. There's no sense getting riled up about this. It's a simple mistake that anyone could make.

    --
    For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    1. Re:Law is complicated by pclminion · · Score: 2

      Did you just say "The law is really complicated, so it's okay if police officers don't understand it and therefore make false arrests?"

      HIPAA applies in exactly no fucking way at all to a typical citizen. Zero, zilch.

    2. Re:Law is complicated by Improv · · Score: 1

      I didn't say it was okay. I said it's an easy mistake to make and that it's understandable that the mistake was made. You might want to read comments more carefully before you reply.

      --
      For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    3. Re:Law is complicated by pclminion · · Score: 0

      I did read your comment. You said it was "understandable." Meaning you think it's okay that the cop doesn't know the law. Well, I think it isn't.

    4. Re:Law is complicated by admdrew · · Score: 1

      Who said anything about arrests?

    5. Re:Law is complicated by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      How the hell is that an easy mistake? What fucking medical records were on display that this guy recorded with his camera? Seriously, you need to think before you post.

    6. Re:Law is complicated by hduff · · Score: 1

      Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

      --
      "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
    7. Re:Law is complicated by Improv · · Score: 1

      The identity of subjects is regulated. For all the people on whom I did neuropsych research, I am bound not to release even their names.

      --
      For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    8. Re:Law is complicated by Improv · · Score: 1

      You don't get to tell me what I mean. As I said it was a mistake, but an understandable one.

      --
      For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    9. Re:Law is complicated by Improv · · Score: 1

      That's a legal principle, and a good one. Whenever cases like these hit the courts, I believe the videotaper should win. However, I don't think we need to talk about "jackboots" or "fascism" because some doctors and police don't know the law. We can *understand* their not understanding HIPAA from the luxury of our homes outside of a high stress situation, even if we expect the legal system to correct the mess and hopefully lead to police/doctors getting it right in the future.

      --
      For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    10. Re:Law is complicated by 0111+1110 · · Score: 0

      What makes you think it was a mistake at all? Are the false charges against the guy a mistake too?

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    11. Re:Law is complicated by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Even if they were on display it would be the person's ass that displayed them, not the guy that photographed them.

    12. Re:Law is complicated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is indeed a legal principle.

      when you couple it with the simple observation that it is flatout impossible to keep up with all the new law (never mind all the case law, and laws created in the past)

      you have the inevitable conclusion that the law is a complete absurdity

      the sane respone to that is to respect your fellow beings and your environment, but to not respect the law

  28. How are we supposed to make fun of crazy people by wiredog · · Score: 1

    if the police won't let us tape them being crazy?

  29. THIS is the problem with "We need a law..." by swb · · Score: 2

    This is the problem with the mindset that everytime something bad happens we need a law to prevent it from happening again.

    We have so many laws now that new laws often go unenforced (or the old ones they supplement go unenforced), and the police now have a laundry list of bullshit laws they can whip out when convenient.

  30. Some recordings should be restricted ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Some recordings should be restricted to a degree. For example an ongoing barricaded hostage situation where the police are about to make an entry to conduct a rescue. A recording should not be broadcast or otherwise shared in a live or near-live manner. The hostage taker could see what is going on outside. Once the hostage situation is resolved then broadcasting/sharing should be allowed.

    1. Re:Some recordings should be restricted ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In that case the recording isn't the issue.

      It's the broadcasting, which could be interfering with law enforcement or even aiding the offender/suspect. Variations on those themes are already offences.

    2. Re:Some recordings should be restricted ... by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      no. Absolutely no.

      You do not give up freedom to record just because something is happening. That's absurd.

    3. Re:Some recordings should be restricted ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your example is about restricting broadcasting; it has nothing to do with the actual act of recording.

    4. Re:Some recordings should be restricted ... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I take it you aren't a native English speaker. How is it a "recording" when it is going out "live"? And yes, media blackouts are common, but they are *never* a restriction on recording.

  31. I'm in Trouble! by davydagger · · Score: 2

    "The article notes that the Deputy in question basically told the guy he was arrested for being a "buttinski""

    If thats an arrestable offense, I'm in serious shit.

    1. Re:I'm in Trouble! by admdrew · · Score: 1

      The article says nothing at all about an arrest.

    2. Re:I'm in Trouble! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      "The article notes that the Deputy in question basically told the guy he was arrested for being a "buttinski"" If thats an arrestable offense, I'm in serious shit.

      Everything is. If your 'violation' doesn't fit in with an already established, accepted law, they just call it "resisting arrest" and proceed to fuck up your life.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  32. Arrest the deputy for destruction of property... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since the recorded video was in fact a video/movie, and the MPAA has bought the laws that state that IP = P, then deleting the movie is destruction of property.

    So we have

    False Arrest
    Aggrevated theft
    Destruction of property
    Making false police reports
    Falsifying evidence
    Evidence tampering

    I'd say minimum 5 years in prison for the deputy.

  33. Sigh... by macbeth66 · · Score: 1

    Okay, so where to we sent the money to help Henderson with his legal issues and get the Ramsey County Sheriff's Office to behave properly?

  34. we all have the right to observe. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what is going on, as long as we are not in the way ,and a safe distance back we can film or record anything the public peace officer is doing. we have the right to observe.

  35. You want to fix this? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Start by not using their language. They didn't "confiscate" his camera - they robbed him and stole his camera. See how that's suddenly a different story? But that's the *correct* version of it. "Confiscation" implies that they took it temporarily under some statutory authority. What they actually did was "strong-arm robbery", with an aggravating circumstance of "under color of law" or "with a gun", or both. That's a felony any way you slice it.

    I read a lot of these stories, and the press and everybody discussing it uses the weasel language created by law enforcement to cover up LEO crimes. So, a kidnapping becomes a "false arrest" (no such thing, as an "arrest" is defined as "taking someone into custody *under legal authority*"), robbery becomes "confiscation", perjury becomes "made a mistake while filing a sworn affidavit", assault becomes "excessive force", etc. This is a problem. Start calling the crimes by their proper names and it suddenly becomes a lot more difficult to justify it or write it off.

    The victim needs to go straight to the DA and demand prosecution. It wouldn't happen unless the prosecutor is honest (and there actually are a few), but with enough noise he'll get his camera back and hopefully someone will get at least a stern talking-to.

    1. Re:You want to fix this? by admdrew · · Score: 0

      with enough noise he'll get his camera back

      He already did (source: TFA).

    2. Re:You want to fix this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The victim needs to go straight to the DA and demand prosecution. It wouldn't happen unless the prosecutor is honest (and there actually are a few), but with enough noise he'll get his camera back and hopefully someone will get at least a stern talking-to.

      Oh he'll get his camera back ... eventually. I'd wager real cash it won't be in working order though.

    3. Re:You want to fix this? by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      Brilliant post. This is honestly straight-up cut the bullshit George Carlin post.

    4. Re:You want to fix this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spot on! I must admit I re-posted your comment verbatim on Facebook.

    5. Re:You want to fix this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very well said. I have a friend that stated an opinion that the characters of a majority of police officers are almost identical to those of criminals and it's only these false uses of language and the whole closing ranks game that allows them crimes they commit to go unpunished. The big difference is they are "smart" enough to realize how to do what the heck they want WITH the full support of law enforcement behind them.

      Given their "declared" role to be to uphold the laws of the country then they *ought* to be role models for the rest of the citizens in respecting said laws.

      Let's also remember that the police like the rest of us are made up of a cross-section of the population and although there are many many many people that join the police force as a power trip (to "legally" get to mess up people they take a disliking to, etc) some are honest hard working folks dedicated to their job, mostly turning a blind eye to the corruption because they know better than and of us public citizens the results of rocking the boat.

      I know a guy who thought he was sooooo tough that he joined the Marines. Well he lasted a few weeks before realizing that you didn't just get a uniform that said "Marine" on it so you could mess with people. Where did he go? Yup, PA cop. He proudly boasts that he has never ever let off anyone for speeding or any other minor offense, but when a car he was a passenger in got pulled over for running a red light he was very quick to get out and say hi to the officer that stopped them - result - no ticket.

      This is not the society the framers of the constitution had in mind when they put it in place. In fact quite the opposite, they were all terrified of societies where the rights of the individuals were not respected by the government and their minions and put together a framework designed to enshrine individual freedoms and equal rights for all. How that ideal has been corrupted by the very people they were trying to protect us all from.

    6. Re:You want to fix this? by DuelCitizen · · Score: 1

      Great post!!

  36. The only ones in the wrong here are the police by kawabago · · Score: 1

    When the police don't obey the law, how can they expect anyone else to? If I lived in this jurisdiction I would use this to show an unequal enforcement of the law and get my own charges dismissed. Since the police were acting outside the law, I would go after each police officer personally and privately for the damage to my reputation, loss of creative works and loss of necessary equipment FOR work. Hence also loss of income. I bet the police would settle and apoligize before I take their houses and retirement plans away.

    1. Re:The only ones in the wrong here are the police by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Or they would come by your home in the night, shoot you and never find the "real" killer. Remember, we are already talking about a case of the police destroying evidence, and no one else of the force even trying to find the perpetrator of the crime which took place INSIDE the police station.

    2. Re:The only ones in the wrong here are the police by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Or they would come by your home in the night, shoot you and never find the "real" killer.

      They don't need such subterfuge if they want you dead.

      They simply "receive an anonymous tip", and when they kick in your door, you "made a threatening or furtive movement" or you "appeared to possess a weapon" (your TV remote, maybe).

      They might even send flowers to the services.

      Personally, I feel that domestic police should be more on an even-firepower-field with civilians, maybe even at a disadvantage, like being forced to go back to .38-special revolvers with only FMJ ammo, no armored vehicles, be restricted to bolt-action rifles, and forbidden to use body-armor. They have more than enough advantage over criminals in numbers, training, and organization/communications (they can always call up more police for backup).

      Don't like it as a cop, not having overwhelming firepower superiority over any citizen? Don't be a cop. You're in the wrong field if you object to being equal. The authors of the US Constitution plainly intended any citizen to be on a one-to-one, individual-firepower parity with a soldier or police officer.

      Yes, I think civilians should be able to legally buy, sell, own, and carry select-fire weapons like the M4 and M16, as well as Stens, Uzis, Thompson Model 1928s, etc etc. No, that doesn't mean explosives-based weapons like grenades, mortars, rockets, etc. It's unnecessary, as with sufficient firepower as outlined above, those can be obtained if the situation becomes that dire.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  37. Filming in public is restricted ... by perpenso · · Score: 3, Informative

    Are you in public? then your right to privacy does not include filming you about your business. That is ANYBODY.

    I do not think that is accurate. If you are recording things for your personal use I suspect its true. If you are recording for public use I suspect its not true, hence the need to get "model release" signatures or blur the faces of regular people who are recognizable. Note "regular" people, celebrities and public officials do not get this sort of protection.

    Also note that some places open to the public are not public spaces. I believe that on private property open to the public recording can be prohibited. I don't think you can get arrested but the property owner can surely instruct you to leave. If you fail to do so then you are trespassing and subject to arrest.

    1. Re:Filming in public is restricted ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Usually you only need release forms if you capture their voice along with their image, just image doesn't usually require a release.

    2. Re:Filming in public is restricted ... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Also note that some places open to the public are not public spaces. I believe that on private property open to the public recording can be prohibited. I don't think you can get arrested but the property owner can surely instruct you to leave. If you fail to do so then you are trespassing and subject to arrest.

      In the US, the owner (usually not the owner, but an employee of the lease holder) can ask you to do anything they like. In practice, they follow it up with "or I'll have you arrested." "Give me that camera or I'll have you arrested." In practice, you don't need to ever comply with anything anyone other than the police order you to do. The worst they can do to you is have you arrested for trespassing, and in practice, the police will not charge you unless you've been warned by a cop before, so long as you leave immediately when the police order you to do so.

      They may ask to see your receipt as you leave, and you may laugh in their face and keep walking. If they move to block you, they have kidnapped you. If they grab your shoulder and turn you around, they committed assault and false arrest. Though, in practice, so long as you don't have video or visible injuries (blood or a compound fracture), the police will not do anything to the store, even if they confess ("yeah, I grabbed him, he didn't give me the bag").

      There is nothing they can do to you, short of a citizen's arrest (reserved only for shoplifting, and even then used sparingly because so many end in lawsuits, even if unjust ones that they never win).

    3. Re:Filming in public is restricted ... by Occams · · Score: 1

      Trespassing is not a felony unless the place is in a designated class. So sue me.

      --
      Heavy is the head that wears the tinfoil hat.
    4. Re:Filming in public is restricted ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Usually you only need release forms if you capture their voice along with their image, just image doesn't usually require a release.

      I think it is more complicated than that. My understanding is that a release is necessary if the image can be interpreted as endorsing or promoting something. This can be something as simple as buying a pretzel from a street vendor. Other scenarios may require a release as well.

    5. Re:Filming in public is restricted ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Trespassing is not a felony unless the place is in a designated class. So sue me.

      One can be arrested for infractions and misdemeanors too.

  38. It will never stop by alexo · · Score: 2

    It will never stop until police "officers" are personally criminally responsible for their criminal actions, and are actively prosecuted for them.
    Since that will never happen, the abuse will never stop.

    1. Re:It will never stop by DuelCitizen · · Score: 1

      Imagine... A young person stands with two career choices in front of them. Their desire is to have power over others and to beat to a pulp anyone they dislike or just on a whim. They want to be surrounded by like minded people who will cover for them and teach them how to be better at what they do. One carries a salary, an illusion of public respect, and is adored and protected by the establishment. You get free weapons, a really fast car and can drive it as fast as you like and break any traffic law without anyone stopping you. Also you get a new one if you smash it up, and it's full of computers and cool stuff. The other choice has no guaranteed income, the people you hang with might stab you in the back or end up in jail and so might you. You have to buy your guns and steal cars and there's this big other group that keep coming after you and beating the living daylights out of you and your friends and walking away. Given an ounce of sense you become a cop instead of a criminal. Same job but with much better benefits...

  39. News at 11 by SimplyGeek · · Score: 2

    Asshole cops trump up charges against a man for doing something legal that they don't like. News at 11.

  40. Auto Upload... Check by Ryyuajnin · · Score: 1

    Thanks data connection and free app for syncing my video automatically for me :)

  41. People need android cameras by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

    So media can be uploaded immediately.

    Dropbox uploads all my photos for me.

  42. Legal defense fund? by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If someone sets up a legal defense fund, I'd be happy to chip in.

    I'd also chip in for a fund to pay for going after that deputy and that police department.

    1. Re:Legal defense fund? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that, in this case, it seems certain that he can find his own lawyer to sue the department. I bet he and his lawyer will have a nice settlement.

    2. Re:Legal defense fund? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      have you considered donating to eff?

    3. Re:Legal defense fund? by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but sometimes I prefer to target my donations a little more precisely to a particular effort, as in this case.

  43. one of these days it's going to get streamed by DynamoJoe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Doesn't the justin.tv app stream to a remote server while it's recording? Good luck deleting the video there, officer.

    --
    bah.
    1. Re:one of these days it's going to get streamed by hduff · · Score: 1

      I believe Dropbox does this on my Android phone. And it is copied to at least 5 different computers at three locations, two computers and one location of which I do not own nor rent, so good luck with that officer.

      --
      "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
  44. "no matter what" is asking a lot by davidwr · · Score: 1

    I think they will draw the line at "recording is allowed in any place where being there holding a camera without recording taking place is allowed."

    Here's a silly example of why "no matter what" can be abused by an photographer:

    Officer is leading a suspect to his police car.
    Four citizens stand in front of police cars' doors, blocking access.
    All 4 are arrested, charged, and convicted with obstructing justice, interfering with an arrest, or some similar charge.

    Inspired, 4 different people do the same thing, but this time holding cameras.
    They claim "we were photographing police, you can't arrest us."

    Surely they are no less guilty of interfering with a lawful arrest than the first group who were not wielding cameras.

    The law needs to protect "passive" "citizen-photography" of public officials who are doing their jobs while in public places. The fact that someone is photographing something not be used as a license to do what would otherwise be illegal.

    By the way, the term "citizen-photography" should not be limited to citizens. When it comes to photographing public servants, I think the "right to passively photograph public servants in public" should extend at a minimum to all legally competent adults who are not foreign diplomats or agents of a foreign government.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  45. Deleted Data? by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    DId they delete it or format the drive and overwrote the deleted info? Other wise I'm sure its still there.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  46. Duty not Right by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

    We as a society need to turn this around. Instead it being our right to record police who are publicly abusing their power, it should be our duty to record them. Most smart phones these days can record video. Imagine a half dozen people recording any incident. It's hard to confiscate them all. Also, if you see the police trying to confiscate a camera, that should be a red flag for even more cameras to start recording. If there was no abuse of power, then the video will show that, so the police have nothing to worry about. Hell, let them record themselves too in the line of duty if they think it's needed. Video is just too easy and available that we should make it standard operating procedure.

    --
    The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
  47. Hello, will the real /. leftists please stand up? by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 0, Troll

    I know there are tons of you out there defending big brother out there.

    They are coming for your guns.

    Libertarian non-sense? Somebody probably sleep through their history classes perhaps.

  48. You SHOULDNT be able to record police. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1- Youre not just recording the police, youre recording the people interacting with them. What about their privacy? Or do people think that just because your recording cops means you can also record any damn thing they are involved with as well regardless of that person or persons wishes? The police dont get involved with people unless its serious or potentially serious so Im pretty sure the civians involved dont want to be recorded and slapped on youtube without their permission or even knowledge. If I am getting pulled out or arrested I sure as hell dont want some local asswipe recording me and putting me on youtube.

    2- Recording the police gets abused entirely too much. Like the video labeling a cops as racist because it was showing some white cop chewing out some black girls in it and giving them shit and arresting one. Well after many many many comments later someone posted a link to the full video unedited and it showed the cop warning the girls not to jwalk across a very busy 4 lane intersection and they got all shitty with them and screaming and saying they werent breaking the law (when jwalking is illegal but they didnt care) and ended with him fully and justifiably arresting them for disorderly conduct, jwalking and probablly assualt but the damage was already done and hundreds had said he was racist and it damaged his reputation and the police departments. See you can record a cop shooting a guy and edit it, then slap a very negative headline on it and EVERYONE will believe it even if in reality that guy was shot because he was beating his wife and the responding officer tried to stop it but the guy pulled a gun on him and the cop shot him in self defense. People lie with video constantly and use it to antagonize people.

    People already have a negative image of the police just because of a few people. Sure in the last year there have been a couple bad cops in the news out of the hundreds of thousands of cops across the country? Its like how people automatically think every mechanic is going to cheat you just because occasionally the news runs a story on the one bad mechanic they could find in 6 months. You people WANT the cops to be bad because you want to bitch about them on the internet. When someone gets a speeding ticket for speeding all they do is bitch about the police despite the fact they broke the law, when someone gets robbed they bitch about the useless police as if they expect a cop to be personally monitoring them every second of the day. The police have shitty jobs and all they get is shit for it. Making it legal to video tape them will only make it worse on them.

    1. Re:You SHOULDNT be able to record police. by mark-t · · Score: 2

      When in public, and not on private property, a person should darn well be able to record absolutely anything and everything that they can see or hear for themselves. On private property, you respect the wishes of the owner of the property or you are trespassing.

    2. Re:You SHOULDNT be able to record police. by SecurityGuy · · Score: 1

      1- Youre not just recording the police, youre recording the people interacting with them. What about their privacy?

      Presumably, they're in public or they wouldn't be recordable. I hear what you're saying, though. There are a lot of absolute slimeballs out there who record awfulness for the amusement of losers on the internet. Don't be one of those people.

      2- Recording the police gets abused entirely too much.

      You're not claiming that the guy with a badge never reports just the facts (or version thereof) that makes him look like the good guy, are you? Really, all I need to see is ONE video of a handcuffed young man getting shot by police who then start rounding up the cell phones of people who were recording to say that this right ALWAYS needs to be protected. We grant police tremendous power. It's not asking much at all to claim that, in return, we get to have video of you exercising that power. If that bothers you, find another line of work where the lives of the public are not in your hands.

      You people WANT the cops to be bad because you want to bitch about them on the internet.

      No, I WANT them to be wonderful people who never abuse their authority. Some of them are. We've probably all seen those internet videos of the state trooper shows the patience of a saint while some nutjob is verbally going off on them. Some of them aren't. One of the reasons I'm quite happy with the idea of videos is that once you get into a courtroom, what the police say is disproportionally believed over what you say. It is as if by putting on the uniform and badge, regular people become paragons of virtue. Well, that's simply not true. They remain regular people.

      Making it legal to video tape them will only make it worse on them.

      It's already legal to video tape them. Some of them don't know this, or pretend not to know it, but it's true. And yes, it will make it a little harder on them. Sorry (not really), but the point here is to strike a balance with the rights of the accused. If you're going to arrest me and accuse me of a crime (and have the right to beat the snot out of me if I resist arrest), then I'd like video of the whole thing.

    3. Re:You SHOULDNT be able to record police. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they shouldn't. I mean, HELL NO, they shouldn't. If I have my blinds slightly open, you shouldn't be able to record what's going on in my house.

      More importantly, if I have my blinds closed, you shouldn't be able to record me using an infrared camera. If I'm in bed with my lady, I don't want some creepers outside watching our heat-signatures do the nasty.

    4. Re:You SHOULDNT be able to record police. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Well, at that point, you'd be deliberately looking into somebody else's private property.... something that you're not legally supposed to do with intention in the first place without permission, even without recording being involved.

    5. Re:You SHOULDNT be able to record police. by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Making it legal to video tape them will only make it worse on them.

      It is legal to videotape them. Confirmed by state supreme courts in at least 49 out of 50 states now. I believe Massachusetts and Illinois were among the last, but it is most definitely legal to video record the police while they perform their duty of beating the shit out of suspects. Or just tasering or pepper spraying them if they are one of the few less violent ones.

      In certain states you do have to be careful that your video equipment is visible and not hidden. That requirement should definitely be removed because as this case shows police can and will just confiscate and erase your recorder if they see it. And then charge you with all kinds of contempt of cop charges as well.

      As for the rest were you under the impression that video taping someone in public without their permission was against the law? Well it isn't. Except under very rare circumstances and never in the context of a police officer murdering or beating the shit out of their victims in public.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    6. Re:You SHOULDNT be able to record police. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, because the police have never broken the law....

  49. need money by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    Unless idiots police departments start losing big money on bullshit like this it will only get worse.

  50. This absolutely makes sense. by xyourfacekillerx · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    The charges will probably be dropped for political reasons, but as a person whose family mostly consists of medical professionals (doctor, surgeon, psychiatrist, psychologist, two RN's, two FNP's, a naval surgeon, an EMT, a BSN with FNP. ...) they take HIPPA matters like it's sacred. Someone getting hauled off in an ambulance constitutes a medical action. The privacy is intended for the individual, who has to waive his/her rights so that others may possess or even review documentation of these medical events. Any time care is provided (both "provide" and "care" have broad meanings, btw), HIPPA kicks in. It's between you and the provider. So, the man should not have filmed the event if the man had not already received release from the patient to obtain that information. The key word here is documentation. Eye witness accounts are moot because they are not documentation. A/V Recordings are documentation. It's tantamount to roaming a hospital ward and reading people's personal medical charts. Do you get it?

    Oh, and sorry so many of you have never ever been in a situation where HIPPA has been to your benefit. I'm guessing all of you have been, you just don't know it. Every time you see a doctor or fill an Rx or file an insurance claim, HIPPA is protecting you. At any rate, I, for one, would not want it documented by some random person that I was carried off in an ambulance. Who are you to waive MY right to privacy? Who are you to say MY privacy concerns are outweighed by your "information is free" mantra?

  51. There's so much wrong with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't even know what to say.. nazi germany?

  52. This Cop by hduff · · Score: 1

    This cop makes the three honest, intelligent cops look bad.

    --
    "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
  53. Only one thing is going to stop this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The only thing that is going to stop these abuses are actual penalties. At the very least the deputy needs to be charged with armed robbery, he took a citizen's property at the point of a gun when he knew he had no legal grounds to do so. The Sheriff needs to be charged with conspiracy, and willful destruction of evidence in a criminal case for erasing the video. Once the police start serving time in prison instead of paid administrative leave, this illegal practice will end.

  54. Charges vs. officer's account supporting charge by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

    Though that's all true, it still didn't stop this particular officer from arresting a non-health worker for allegedly committing a HIPPA violation.

    Sure it did. The person was cited and charged with obstruction of legal process and disorderly conduct, not with a violation of HIPAA (and, as note in GP, its "HIPAA" -- Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 -- not "HIPPA".)

    People (including the author of the headline of TFS) seem to have trouble distinguishing what TFA describes the subject being charged with with the officer's description of the events supporting the charge on the citation. "HIPAA data privacy violation", "refused to identify himself", etc., are events that are described in the notes on the citation, but they aren't the legal charges. The legal charges are obstruction of legal process and disorderly conduct.

    1. Re:Charges vs. officer's account supporting charge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The entire basis for the detention was fruitless as he committed no crime. They were not responding to a criminal investigation, nor was he being detained in connection to his wife's death. Recording an officer or anyone for that matter was not interfering with any legal process. If disorderly conduct was the result of the legal recording of officers (as illegal arrest is grounds to defend oneself), there is zero basis that charge can stick. The HIPPA violation claim is nonsense.

  55. Recovering the deleted files by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope he gets the media to someone who can recover the deleted video.

  56. Not charged with a HIPAA violation by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

    The police confiscated his camera, deleted the footage, and are charging him with a HIPAA violation (of which there is no legal basis to charge him).

    Except that, if you read TFA rather than trusting the Slashdot headline, the police are not charging him with a HIPAA violation; they are charging him with obstruction of legal process and disorderly conduct. There is mention of a "HIPAA data privacy violation" in the narrative of events (including note of the subject "refusing to identify himself", etc.) on the citation supporting the charge, but the idea that he is being charged with a HIPAA violation is a pure invention of the Slashdot headline writer.

    Hell, there's not even any evidence the person was having a mental breakdown

    On what basis do you draw this conclusion? TFA doesn't address it one way or another.

    1. Re:Not charged with a HIPAA violation by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      the police are not charging him with a HIPAA violation; they are charging him with obstruction of legal process

      Filming is not obstruction. Standing in the wrong place while filming might be, but in general that wouldn't give a good viewpoint so I doubt that's what happened.

      and disorderly conduct.

      Looking at me funny while wearing a loud shirt and smelling of foreign food.

      Hell, there's not even any evidence the person was having a mental breakdown

      On what basis do you draw this conclusion? TFA doesn't address it one way or another.

      So you're saying he was riding a unicorn?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:Not charged with a HIPAA violation by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Filming is not obstruction.

      I don't see any indication that mere filming is the basis of the obstruction charge, but one way or another that's irrelevant to what I said. I didn't say they were right to charge him with obstruction, I said that that -- not a HIPAA violation -- was what they were charging him with. The claim that he was being charged with a HIPAA violation is simply wrong. If you want to argue that he shouldn't be charged with obstruction, that's fine, but offering it as a response to me pointing it out that the claim that he was being charged with a HIPAA violation is false is simply an irrelevancy.

      Hell, there's not even any evidence the person was having a mental breakdown

      On what basis do you draw this conclusion? TFA doesn't address it one way or another.

      So you're saying he was riding a unicorn?

      No, I'm saying TFA doesn't discuss what evidence the police may or may not have on the issue, so I am curious what the basis is for your claim that they don't have any (if you mean merely that the article presents no evidence on this point, I would agree with you, but I would point out that that's pretty irrelevant to the validity of claim by the police.)

  57. No HIPAA charge: /. headline is wrong; RTFA by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

    I have some similar mixed thoughts, but honestly I don't really believe their explanation in this case. If someone mentally ill were being filmed in public and the police were not present, would any prosecutor later press HIPAA charges for the public filming?

    No one is pressing HIPAA charges in this case, either. The charge is obstruction of legal process and disorderly conduct.

    There is a mention of "HIPAA data privacy violation" in the officer's narrative of events supporting the citation, but that's not what is charged .

  58. deleted from the camera while in police custody by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    "footage was deleted from the camera while in police custody. 'We'll just take this for evidence,'"
    So the police are tampering with evidence? Isn't that a crime?

    1. Re:deleted from the camera while in police custody by Legion303 · · Score: 1

      "So the police are tampering with evidence? Isn't that a crime?"

      Only if you're not a member of the gang in blue.

  59. Or you didn't read HIPAA... by DragonWriter · · Score: 2

    I have had cause to research this in a different set of circumstances. The public is not bound by HIPAA. Only health professionals and organizations routinely dealing in health information are covered.

    Oh, and I don't recall seeing criminal penalties. Only civil.

    While there were no HIPAA charges here (the /. headline is wrong: if you RTFA you will see that the charges were obstruction of legal process and disorderly conduct, not HIPAA violations, though there was a HIPAA violation mentioned in the officer's narrative of events on the citation, which is distinct from the legal charges, both of these AC statements about HIPAA are incorrect. I direct you to the main criminal privacy-related part of HIPAA, 42 USC Sec. 1320d-6:

    (a) Offense
    A person who knowingly and in violation of this part—
    (1) uses or causes to be used a unique health identifier;
    (2) obtains individually identifiable health information relating to an individual; or
    (3) discloses individually identifiable health information to another person,
    shall be punished as provided in subsection (b) of this section. For purposes of the previous sentence, a person (including an employee or other individual) shall be considered to have obtained or disclosed individually identifiable health information in violation of this part if the information is maintained by a covered entity (as defined in the HIPAA privacy regulation described in section 1320d–9 (b)(3) of this title) and the individual obtained or disclosed such information without authorization.
    (b) Penalties
    A person described in subsection (a) of this section shall—
    (1) be fined not more than $50,000, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both;
    (2) if the offense is committed under false pretenses, be fined not more than $100,000, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both; and
    (3) if the offense is committed with intent to sell, transfer, or use individually identifiable health information for commercial advantage, personal gain, or malicious harm, be fined not more than $250,000, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

    Note that people who illegally obtain information that was held by a HIPAA-covered entity are liable, and that liability most certainly includes criminal liability.

  60. Smoked pork best served cold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Smoked pork is best served cold. Deputy Jacqueline Muellner should be charged with a felony for destroying evidence. Stupid cunt.

  61. HIPAA irrelevant here; but applies to ordinary ppl by DragonWriter · · Score: 2

    Did you just say "The law is really complicated, so it's okay if police officers don't understand it and therefore make false arrests?"

    To be fair to GP, they said HIPAA is complicated, and that its understandable if people misunderstand its borders; the officer here may not have understood HIPAA and may have been wrong in the notes describing a "HIPAA data privacy violation", but that's pretty much irrelevant to your statement because (1) there was no arrest, and (2) the legal charge in the citation (rather than the description of events) wasn't about a HIPAA violation anyway.

    HIPAA applies in exactly no fucking way at all to a typical citizen.

    If by "a typical citizen" you mean "one who isn't violating HIPAA" (which is certainly the vast majority of citizens), that's true. If you mean "a citizen who is neither a HIPAA covered entity nor an employee of such an entity", then its not true at all -- HIPAA makes it a crime for anyone to knowingly obtain protected information that is maintained by a covered entity without authorization, regardless of whether the person doing the obtaining has any special relationship to a covered entity. (See 42 USC Sec. 1302d-6)

  62. FOIA for "evidence" by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

    From the article - which no one reads, I know - it sounds like Deputy Eggert implied that, because the video is missing from the camera, once returned, that Henderson must've deleted it, himself, or there would be "documentation" of its deletion. In that case, even if Henderson "deleted" it, the police would have a copy, right? If it's evidence, and the police were able to obtain it, they must still have it. Henderson should petition for the "evidence" that the police must have. So, coppers, cough up the video that you took from the camera.

  63. Can someone please look up what libel is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Short answer: libel = a lie

    1. Re:Can someone please look up what libel is? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Slightly longer (and vastly better) answer: footage intentionally edited to give a misleading impression of what happened wouldn't exactly be the truth, would it?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  64. Videotaping police by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=80DbxSZ_FB8 75 years in prison for this man for videotaping police. Has he been freed yet? Anybody know?
    RPK

  65. Many steps and appeals to get there by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 1

    Re: For fraks sake. Will SCOTUS please making a damn ruling that absolutely allows for any and all recording of police officers...
    .
    SCOTUS can only make a ruling when a case finally gets in front of them which they decide to review and rule upon. So it's going to take a grave miscarriage of justice (possibly even someone's death) that occurs because of the presence/existence/enforcement of an unconstitutional law before a case gets appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court of the USA.

  66. named names by ryen · · Score: 1

    What I like best about this article is that real names identifying the officers at fault were used. If you're going to be paid on the public dime then there should be a public record of every thing you do, searchable on the internet (note no addresses for these people should ever be given).

  67. cover up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's because they beat the guy. It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out this is a cover up.

  68. Mixed up by ewertz · · Score: 1

    I disagree and think that police should be allowed to be filmed in public places at all times, to help keep them honest.
    At the same time, if I were being loaded into an ambulance by police, in the midst of a violent mental health breakdown, I would really appreciate it if the police stopped people from filming me. That's not something you want out spread around the internet.


    So, basically, you're all for truth and justice, except when it's inconvenient for you.
    Wow. Does anyone listen to themselves anymore?

  69. "Recording" - the noun not the verb ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

    no. Absolutely no. You do not give up freedom to record just because something is happening. That's absurd.

    Sorry for not being clear but I was referring to "recording" in its noun form, the data itself, not its verb form, the acquisition of the data. Hence the reference to broadcasting while events are unfolding. I was not suggesting that the pictures or video should not be taken, just that their use should be delayed.

  70. Not enough camera's in the hands of citizens by Vernes · · Score: 1

    Replay this scene, but every citizen has google glass posting shit to facebook, google+, twitter and shit at the push of one button.
    Not just this guy, but everyone nearby, the passing pizza deliverer, a taxidriver waiting for a trafficlight, the jogger, the medics, the victim.
    The police will have an heartattack when those glasses get mainstream.

  71. How about when crossing a border? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The courts have consistently said that people have fewer rights when crossing a border. Or, put more correctly, that there is a prevailing national security interest that lowers the burden of suspicion on searches. Does anyone know if you're allowed to record customs and immigration officers when entering the country?

  72. two words for you by RobertLTux · · Score: 2

    In all cases where it can be reasonably proven that recorded evidence was destroyed/tampered with/ hidden from the court the next words out of the Judge should be

    CASE DISMISSED

    the burden of proof should always fall on the LEOs side of the case.

    auto uploading utilities should be very popular on smart phones

    --
    Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  73. what about the press ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So sooner or later it WILL come up.....Does the 1st Amnd. only cover the press with a camera ? If a private citizen can't video a cop, why can a reporter ?!
    NO ONE that does anything in public has any expectation of privacy, look around, in any maj. city it is imposable to even walk around without having those lazer eyed silver peeping monkeys watch your every move, so why can't we watch right back ?!

  74. Re:sigh - stupidity rears its ugly head by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have extensive experience with HIPAA, having spent time on the industry working groups that helped write the regulations and having owned a company that provided HIPAA consulting services, and my opinion is that there is no way that filming this comes within a mile of any HIPAA violation.

    HIPAA rules only applies to a covered entity, the actual custodian of medical information that is gathered and used to develop reimbursement information - hospitals, offices, insurers and all their support agents.

    HIPAA rules only apply to the information gathered for that purpose or its accessory uses by the covered entity.

    That's why the records from surveillance cameras that record an accident and the ambulances retrieving the accident victims aren't covered by HIPAA until or unless they come into the possession of a covered entity.

  75. Are we in USSR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Suddenly, USA became USSR!

  76. HIPAA Violation on the Police by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for a hospital. In order to get my work e-mail on my personal cell phone I need to set a pass-code. I can then give this pass-code to our IT department if I lose the phone and they will remote-delete everything. The main reason is that it is remotely possible that I would have HIPAA PHI (protected health information) in my work e-mail.

    Previously, a poster linked to how the police can bypass the security on the phone. If I didn't get it remotely wiped in time they would then be in the possession of PHI. Sounds like a lawsuit from my employer would be in order.

  77. Who actually violated HIPAA? by CHIT2ME · · Score: 2

    I've been a Pharmacist for over 30 years, and, have to strictly adhere to HIPAA regulations. If I'm consuling a patient and someone overhears or even records any protected information it's not the recorder who violated HIPAA, it would be me, since I allowed the possibility of overhearing or recording. In that light, it was not the person who videoed this incident, it was the police who failed to block the view of the public who actually violated HIPAA regulations (If indeed, any HIPAA regs. actually applied here) So, I would suggest that the person who video recorded this incident get in touch with the person who may or may not have had his rights violated to sue the police department for all they are worth! (Not Much!!!) This would turn the tables on the police and put them in the hotseat where they belong.

    --
    My karma is bad. Don't get too close!!!