NIH Neuroscientists: Junior Seau Had Brain Disease Caused By Hits To the Head

McGruber writes "ABC News/ESPN broke the story that a team of scientists from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) analyzed the brain tissue of renowned NFL linebacker Junior Seau and have concluded that the football player suffered a debilitating brain disease likely caused by two decades worth of hits to the head. From the article: 'In May 2012, Seau, 43 — football's monster in the middle, a perennial all-star and defensive icon in the 1990s whose passionate hits made him a dominant figure in the NFL — shot himself in the chest at his home in Oceanside, Calif., leaving behind four children and many unanswered questions.' As Slashdot earlier reported, more than 30 NFL players have in recent years been diagnosed with chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), a condition once known as 'punch drunk' because it affected boxers who had taken multiple blows to the head."

Comments

Concusion detection tech

[toadlife]

There exist sensors that can be placed into the helment and detect hits that are potentially damaging. The cost is actually nominal. The NFL should make these mandatory.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2011/January/Helmet-Device-Could-Help-in-Concussion-Detection/

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Derekloffin]

Problem is, if it gets triggered all the time...

Re:Concusion detection tech

[0100010001010011]

They should remove the damn helmets and pads. The reason you get the huge hits is because of them. People hit harder because you have 'protection'. Which leads to worse injuries. It's like asking someone to run into a wall. If you run into the wall with a helmet you're going to hit harder because the bits that you can feel don't hurt as much but there is still internal damage. Compared to running straight into a wall unprotected. It's going to hurt your forehead probably before it hurts the brain.

I'd love to see the same results from career Rugby players.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[djlemma]

What would the sensors actually accomplish? I'm just curious- it seems like they would be great for gathering data about how harmful the sport already is, but do you propose that mandatory in-game penalties should be imposed for hitting or being hit too hard? Mandatory player rest periods after hits? Maximum number of impacts per season?

If it's used something like a dosimeter, where once a player got so many hits he would have to be sidelined, then I suppose a lot more linebackers would get to play in the NFL... They'd have to keep a steady supply.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

Then my favorite players will be out more often, and the game is so much fun to watch, it won't be without them...

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously you've never played a sport.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

Nail on the head.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[0100010001010011]

I play Rugby. I've torn both ACLs. I've had numerous other injuries. But when you knock heads with someone there are

In a similar manner to how the people with congenital insensitivity to pain end up with more damage to their body because they have no pain feedback. Your brain has no internal pain receptors. It's why they can perform awake open brain surgeries. But you do have an extensive network of pain nerves all over your skull. By mitigating the pain the rest of the skull feels (with helmets) you're preventing the body from knowing when it is starting to damage the brain.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[PPalmgren]

The NFL is not a contact sport, it is a collision sport. The collisions are fundamental to the way the game is played. Your theory works well for things like Boxing -> MMA, but the game would change entirely if this path was followed. There's too much invested by athletes, fans, businesses, and future stars to make such a black-and-white change.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[timeOday]

People make this argument against cushioned running shoes too (now that barefoot is the big thing) and I find it completely nonsensical. I can easily see where the padding might make you increase your activity to negate the padding, but I do not see that you would increase it so much as to be worse off than if the padding were not there. In the absence of data we are just playing thought experiments. If there is data that airbags, anti-lock brakes, or 4wd make cars less safe to due to overconfidence, that would be relevant.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[trickstyhobbit]

That's absolutely right. I played both rugby and football. Nobody wants to go head-on without a helmet. Problem solved.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[0100010001010011]

> If there is data that airbags, anti-lock brakes, or 4wd make cars less safe to due to overconfidence, that would be relevant.

They do. Replace airbags with knives. People won't drive faster than 5 MPH and crashes will all but eliminated. Airbags make cars safer given the situation where people refuse to slow down.

If people are going to drive 70 MPH then airbags make cars safer at 70 MPH. But if you include the scenario where people never go faster than 5 MPH then airbags would actually cause more damage.

4WD actually has nothing to do with safety and has to do with grip.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

They should remove the damn helmets and pads.

That would just add skull fractures, broken jaws, broken ribs, and dislocated shoulders to the concussions and knee injuries.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[ganjadude]

Thank you, I was going to reply with the same. Prior to the modern NFL players wore leather on their heads or nothing at all, and as someone who played pro rugby for 1 year myself, while it is more common for a rugby player to end up with a more severe injury, they dont happen as often. The gear worn by NFL players gives them a false sense of security, and as such they hit harder. If you have an exposed head, you are less likely to use your head as an attack point, something that NFL players do pretty much every play.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Enderandrew]

There are also helmets which supposedly reduce the risk of concussions, but the NFL won't mandate them for some reason. They keep saying that they think for some reason that attempting to protect players would make them more liable in a lawsuit if a player still ended up with a concussion. That would only really be the case if the NFL false promised they are guaranteed to prevent concussions.

But part of the problem is that many of these helmets are designed to help protect against the most violent blows, while some researchers think the root cause for permanent brain damage is the quantity of small hits, not a small number of big hits.

Guys who played lengthy careers and were involved in as many tackles as Junior Seau may have still developed brain problems even with a concussion-reducing helmet.

The more and more we learn about this issue, it may in fact create a discussion where parents don't allow their kids to play football, or any violent sport. Soccer oddly enough has even higher concussion rates (perhaps due to headers). I'm not sure what major sport is safe, perhaps save for baseball.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Desler]

You're joking, right?

Concussion in Rugby is hidden epidemic

Concerns rise over rugby concussion risk

Concern at lack of rugby head injury reporting

Rugby players urged to donate their brains to help head-injury research

The saddest part is your bullshit got modded as interesting and insightful.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[0100010001010011]

Yep. Just like you see all the time in Rugby... except you don't. Rugby Injuries: A Review of Concepts and Current Literature. If you count actual injuries per 1000 hours of playing time professional Rugby has fewer injuries than the NFL.

And given a choice between a broken bone and permanent brain damage, I'll take the broken bone.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[CanHasDIY]

There exist sensors that can be placed into the helment and detect hits that are potentially damaging.

WARNING! You just took a hit to the cranium that likely damaged your brain! Would you like to continue?

Yea, fat lot of good it'll do to let them know they mind-fucked themselves after the fact...

Something something ounce of prevention, something something pound of cure.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Desler]

Thank you for what? Spreading bullshit? Concussions are a major issue in Rugby.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

That's absolutely right. I played both rugby and football. Nobody wants to go head-on without a helmet. Problem solved.

Brilliant, by your logic you don't need a helmet on a motorcycle either, because nobody wants to fall off and hit their heads on the concrete either. You might get a lot less head-on hits without helmets, but the ones that happen by accident will be a lot more damaging.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[0100010001010011]

Can you provide any numbers that compare the rate of injuries? Just because concussions are a concern in rugby (as they are in any sport) doesn't mean that they are at rates higher than that of football.

And per thousand hours of play I'd say that they're significantly less considering that the average NFL game has 11 minutes of action compared to a 90 minute Rugby game.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[gangien]

Do you understand why they added protection in the first place? It's the same with all those stupid macho arguments about football players wearing all that protection while rugby players don't and therefore are manly.

here's the spoiler. it's because people died. Football is a collision sport, that is different from rugby and hockey, even though they certainly have some high speed collisions, it is not as constant.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[GodfatherofSoul]

This is a common refrain of old school guys from before the helmet or facemask era. The game is simply too fast to remove helmets. You *might* slow down play a bit, but you won't stop the incidental head collisions that cause a lot of concussions (guys hitting their head on the turf, getting kneed, etc).

Re:Concusion detection tech

[CanHasDIY]

congenital insensitivity to pain

Hey, thanks for posting that link; I always thought maybe I was just crazy, as my automatic reaction to intense pain is equally intense laughter.

It's nice to know I'm not alone in that respect.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Hoi Polloi]

Replace airbags with knives

It is called the windshield

Seriously though, accidents happened a lot before air bags and even before seat belts and people didn't drive 5 mph because of it. Not all accidents are caused by something the driver did.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[gl4ss]

The NFL is not a contact sport, it is a collision sport. The collisions are fundamental to the way the game is played. Your theory works well for things like Boxing -> MMA, but the game would change entirely if this path was followed. There's too much invested by athletes, fans, businesses, and future stars to make such a black-and-white change.

you know why it's a collision sport and not a cool sport about contact and guys doing cool parkour runs over others? BECAUSE OF THE FUCKING PADDINGS.

remove 'em. people will adjust playstyles accordingly. certainly they wont be hitting their heads into each other for 20 years, they'll stop after one and the injuries are less hidden.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[UnknownSoldier]

Obviously you've never played touch hockey.

Just because some idiots like to damage and beat their body up doesn't mean the rest of us do.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[ganjadude]

they are not AS COMMON, the injuries may be greater when they happen, but they do not happen as often.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[afidel]

4WD actually has nothing to do with safety and has to do with grip.

Such pure BS, the only two accidents I've had were due to lack of grip (hydroplaning), grip is control and control is necessary for safety.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[0100010001010011]

Statistics per thousand player hours?

The average NFL game has 11 minutes of action. Split that into offense and defense means you have 5.5 minutes of action per game. Then toss in a 17 game season and you have 93.5 minutes of game time per team. Yet you're still seeing injuries of this quantity.

93.5 minutes is slightly longer than your average Rugby game. A rugby player will see 93.5 minutes of action in 4 games at most.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

I played football (the english football), for my state team and I totally agree with him.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[0100010001010011]

4wd doesn't have anything to do with hydroplaning.

Let me rephrase that since you have obviously never used a 4WD vehicle. 4WD will assist in grip at low speeds to START moving. All vehicles already have four wheel braking. Four wheel drive won't help you slow down. It won't stop you from hydroplaning.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[LordNimon]

Without the padding, American football would be almost indistinguishable from rugby. Why not just rename the NFL to the NRL, and get rid of American football altogether? I would be in favor of that, but that's just not realistic.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[afidel]

Sure, why not? What other industry do we allow free reign to cause known harm to their employees?

Re:Concusion detection tech

[BitZtream]

All the fighting sports?

Boxing of various types.

Wrestling of various types.

Survival Contests (real ones, not reality TV shows).

Re:Concusion detection tech

[xclr8r]

I saw an episode of Real Sports with Gumbel(sp?) where the NFL is reducing the number of practice days with full contact to reduce hits to the head. When the NCAA was asked to do the the same they balked. http://youtu.be/UKIYAtnLLOA?t=6s NCAA is now being named in a class action lawsuit: http://oklahoma-criminal-defense.com/blog/2012/11/ncaa-named-in-head-injury-class-action/

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

Or have a hemet that covers the whole head such that the shoulder stake the impact (sort of like a diving helmet).

Fans would have to get used to players looking like bubble-headed astronauts --- but the game could get interesting if players could even more aggressive human battering rams

Re:Concusion detection tech

[h4rr4r]

Which due to rarity will be far better than the current situation. They will also get immediate treatment and not sent back out to get another concussion.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah.. totally indistinguishable. Except for the forward passing rules, restart of play after a tackle, formations, scoring methods, score values, team sizes, playing field size..

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Lashat]

You can't only count game time. Full and Half contact practices occur also. There is pre-season and post season. Certainly, post-season stakes are higher so players risk more, hit harder, and play with more intensity.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Lashat]

Grip = Traction = Less Spin Outs in Rain and Ice.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[PPalmgren]

The players are against the NFL controlling the equipment they choose. Its purely an issue caused by the NFLPA, the player's union. The NFL has tried to get that inserted but the NFLPA wants concessions if they do.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Jedi Alec]

When your car starts to oversteer on a slippery surface, the very *last* thing you want to do is brake.

You need traction on the road to keep the car under control, and 4WD gives you 2 more surfaces that can transfer power from the engine to the road.

On a long hydroplane...you're pretty much screwed, but if you skip over a wet surface and end up on the tarmac at an angle to your vector, 4WD will help getting the car straight again.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Jedi Alec]

The next step is obvious. Each player gets a HUD that based on the sensors displays real time adjustments to IQ and life expectancy based on the hits.

"Bang! 2 more like that and you'll need to hire someone to tie your shoelaces!"

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

Too soon man, that's what caused the concusion.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[jonnythan]

Injuries, particularly head injuries, are notoriously underreported in rugby. It's almost comical.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Americium]

It's less, but not by much.

11.3% for high school rugby

15.3% for high school football

Professional injuries don't bother me nearly as much as the amount of injuries that occur in high school and even earlier. I don't see how you could reasonable argue that either concussion rate is acceptable at all, and the uncertainties in these studies actually overlap.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Americium]

How can you start the discussion that football is too dangerous to partake in by the millions. You cannot convincingly get across the point that this sport causes more suffering than joy created by spectating. This is what the sensors are for, gathering scientific data showing the causes of future mental issues. Then the discussion can begin.

Stopping multiple concussions from occurring within a short time will stop unnecessary injury, as you suggest, so there will be immediate gains.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you'd be a torturer's worst nightmare. They would think they were being tortured.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Maow]

I play Rugby. I've torn both ACLs. I've had numerous other injuries. But when you knock heads with someone there are

... "?"

Are we to assume that knocking heads causes one to lose track of what one is saying? Sounds serious.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[G-Man]

Runners who use minimalist/no shoes generally use a forefoot/midfoot strike (the ball of the foot hits the ground first), while those with thickly padded shoes are usually heel-strikers.

Heel strikers tend to run more upright, with the heel landing well forward of the runner's center of gravity, while fore/midfoot strikers lean more foreward, with the foot landing almost under the CG. It's like you are always just 'falling forward', with your feet catching you from falling on your face. It takes some getting used to, but the effect is much lower impact than heel striking.

The reasoning is twofold: 1) If your foot lands well forward of your CG, you are effectively retarding your forward progress and increasing the force traveling up your legs, and 2) By striking with the heel, you remove the flexing of the foot and calf muscles as a shock absorber, and the force travels directly up the leg - right up into your knee. The padding in the heel of the shoe (and it's always the heels that are heavily padded) don't make up for the loss of the foot/calf system as a shock absorber.

You can run using a fore/midfoot strike with a thickly padded shoe, but the thick heel just seems to get in the way.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[LordNimon]

Oh please, give me a break. These are minor differences.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[wonkey_monkey]

I play Rugby. I've torn both ACLs. I've had numerous other injuries. But when you knock heads with someone there are

sentences that don't get finished?

Re:Concusion detection tech

[rahvin112]

It's not just the pads. It's the steroids. Weights and muscle mass have gone up dramatically since the 70's. Today's wide receivers are the same size and muscle mass of the past defensive line men. We're engineering players that are so strong they can do stuff like tear their own hamstrings when starting to run. There is no doubt the pads make players hit harder and take bigger risks but the muscle factor cannot be discounted.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[wonkey_monkey]

The trouble with using headlines as evidence is that "Concussion risk not that bad after all" never makes it to press.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Radres]

Rugby completely eliminates the position of quarterback, which is widely considered the most important position in football. How is that minor?

Re:Concusion detection tech

[operagost]

It's different with shoes. It's not so much the padding, but the way the shoe is shaped and how it prevents your foot from contacting the ground in the same way. You roll your foot differently because there's a shaped chunk of rubber in the way.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[chargersfan420]

The average NFL game has 11 minutes of action.

Citation needed. I watch more than my fair share of football, and this is absurd. I'll agree that there is less than 60 minutes as the game clock would indicate, because certain plays do not stop the game clock from running, but to assert that there are only 11 minutes of action is disingenuous.

Also, to the other person who replied to this comment, the latest CBA signed between the NFL and the NFL Players Association limits the number of padded (read: full contact) practices per season. I think it is something like 8-10 padded practices per season, which is practically nothing by most minor football league standards.

Lastly, I'd just like to say Rest In Peace, Junior Seau. He was my first favourite player, and he will be missed. (but not by the /. crowd)

Re:Concusion detection tech

[broen]

11.3 concussions per 100 player-seasons.

15.3% players sustained concussions per season.

These numbers are not comparable.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference lies in repeated concussions for single players. In rugby (I'm a player), those concussions are fairly evenly spread across the whole team as the positions are much more fluid. In football the concussions are less evenly distributed as you have certain people who's entire job is to tackle and tackle hard. They can end up taking multiple concussions each season, year after year. That, in my opinion, is where the real damage lies.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[operagost]

... system of downs, the snap, the clock, the overtime rules, the shape of the ball, the field goal kick, the position of the goal posts, blocking...

Re:Concusion detection tech

[operagost]

I'm not going to say it's impossible, but in case you didn't realize that football players are tested for a ridiculous number of performance-enhancers I'm going to tell you it's very unlikely.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Richy_T]

And don't forget the boredom. The terrible, interminable boredom.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Richy_T]

once a player got so many hits he would have to be sidelined,

Perfect way to make sure that good players get a goodly amount of "accidental" hits.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406.html

Re:Concusion detection tech

[chargersfan420]

Thanks for trying. I offer the following rebuttals:
- The Wall Street Journal. When it comes to football, I'm sure they know what they're talking about...
- They only studied four games. FOUR games. I'm sure their average estimates are right on track by only studying FOUR games.
- It is never mentioned which four games these are, which makes a difference. The strategies employed by certain teams lend themselves to wasting game clock time much more than other strategies. How do they know that these four games aren't outliers on a bell curve, perhaps featuring two run-heavy offenses playing against soft defenses?
- They also don't cite their own sources. It basically says "according to a WSJ study, of four games, and similar estimates of (unnamed) researchers."

It's funny how we complain on /. so much of terrible journalism, but when it makes the point we agree with, we believe it without question.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[ATMAvatar]

Not all accidents are caused by something the driver did.

None of them are, in fact. Accidents are always caused by something the other driver did.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Radtastic]

Exactly this. If anyone wants a great read, check out :The Big Scrum: How Teddy Roosevelt Saved Football

FTS: "In its infancy during the late nineteenth century, the game of football was still a work in progress that only remotely resembled the sport millions follow today. There was no common agreement about many of the game’s basic rules, and it was incredibly violent and extremely dangerous. An American version of rugby, this new game grew popular even as the number of casualties rose. Numerous young men were badly injured and dozens died playing football in highly publicized incidents, often at America’s top prep schools and colleges."

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

90 minutes played in an 80 minute game is quite impressive considering it can take over a minute to set a scrum.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

They will also get immediate treatment and not sent back out to get another concussion.

No dude, they'll just fucking die or end up like Daryl Stingley.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Swampash]

The fundamental difference is that - as sports of strategy - rugby football is real-time while American football is turn-based.

Rugby is far more improvisational while American football is far more orchestrated. That's not to say that rugby can't have set plays and that American football can't be spontaneous, but I think the generalisation is accurate. That also means that rugby players are more jacks-of-all-trades and American football players are specialists.

The fastest guy on a rugby football team also has to be able to make and shrug off tackles and (pardon the arcane terminology) clean out at rucks; the biggest guy on a rugby team also has to be able to run and catch and pass and kick. Possession can change in an instant. In rugby you have to be able to go from playing offense to defense and back at the drop of a hat and for long uninterrupted passages of play without a whistle going. A rugby player has to be able to do a bit of every other player's job if circumstances require.

In American football every step, every pass, every hit is planned out and prepared for in advance and the positions and responsibilities are far more specialised. The offensive teams specialise in offense, the defensive teams in defense, and the special teams in kicking plays. Large numbers of complex pre-planned plays have to be memorised. A top-level punt returner would probably make a top-level rugby winger - each the fastest man on his team - look laughably slow. A defensive tackle would probably make a rugby prop - each the heaviest strongest man on his team - look frickin' anorexic.

The notion of taking a rest on the sideline while a specialist team takes its turn on the field is alien shit to a rugby player. Similarly the notion of the biggest guy on the field spontaneously making a run down the sideline (entirely on his own initiative, without ever having discussed it with his teammates or coaches) before getting smashed by the fastest guy on the other team is a scenario that seems just as alien to an American footballer.

TLDR? Basically rugby is Starcraft while American football is Civilization.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[lord_mike]

The major differences are the lack of blocking in Rugby, the ball always coming loose after a hit (negating the need for a hard tackle to dislodge the ball), and the lack of forward progress and "spotting" the ball (negating the need for a hard hit to prevent the ball carrier gaining extra yards). The two sports are very different, and comparing the two is loke comparing apples and oranges.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

Airbags never replaced knives. Ever.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Americium]

If statistics work, those numbers are very comparable. 11.3 concussions / 100 player-seasons = 11.3% concussions per player per season. I don't know how I could make it more simple to see the equality of those statements.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[bogjobber]

The gear isn't the only difference. Even before modern pads and helmets football was played quite differently to rugby. Rugby certainly isn't any less challenging or physically demanding, but the frequency of one-on-one collisions at high force is quite a bit lower due to the difference in the way the games are actually played. In football, getting tackled is more or less inevitable on any play, and the ballcarrier will often run directly into a defender full-force to try and gain a few yards. The forward pass also causes the quarterback or receiver to be hit while defenseless, which seems to be rare in a rugby match.

It's not that football players hit harder. I doubt that they do. Never having played rugby I don't actually know, but they look like they're hitting pretty damn hard.

I do agree that in rugby you have less leading with the head, but this is also strongly discouraged in football by rule and by common sense and certainly doesn't happen on nearly every play. This is much less due to concussions and more to do with spinal injuries, though. If you're leading with your head, you *will* hurt your neck and probably badly.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[bogjobber]

In rugby, 11.3 concussions occur per 100 players, per season. No information on how those concussions were distributed among the players.

In football, 15.3% of players sustained concussions per season. No information on how many concussions each of those players, on average or in total, sustained.

Being concussed once *drastically* raises the likelihood that you will be concussed again. It is extremely likely that far fewer than 11.3% of rugby players sustain a concussion each season, and also extremely likely that football players incur far more than 15.3 concussions per 100 player-seasons. The numbers are not comparable.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[davester666]

Yeah, you'd probably lose all your linemen [offence,and defence and spares], all your running backs in the first quarter, just from taking blows to the head larger than a major car accident.

The basic design of the game cannot be played any other way.

It would no longer be 'Football' if they managed to fix this [as in, head trauma would only happen due to accidents/cheap shots].

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Anonymous Coward]

You know why you're bullshit? Because apparently you've never watched Rugby.

Just because head injuries exist in rugby doesn't mean it's equally as bad as football. Watch the game and you can see very clear differences in the way they hit eachother.

Provide a comparison between the injury rates of both leagues if you want to avoid "bullshit".

Re:Concusion detection tech

[tehcyder]

90 minutes played in an 80 minute game is quite impressive considering it can take over a minute to set a scrum.

He got momentarily confused with the length of matches in real football.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[tehcyder]

... system of downs, the snap, the clock, the overtime rules, the shape of the ball, the field goal kick, the position of the goal posts, blocking...

...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[tehcyder]

American football is Civilization.

Except that the football games appear to an outsider to last even longer.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[tehcyder]

And don't forget the boredom. The terrible, interminable boredom.

If you want boredom, try baseball. It's like a more monotonous version of cricket.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[h4rr4r]

Who was wearing a helmet. Without one he would not have lowered his head when hit. That is exactly what helmets encourage people to do.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Richy_T]

I have. And you're absolutely correct.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[Americium]

Good point.

Re:Concusion detection tech

[djlemma]

Well, I think many industries where injuries are expected as part of the job will pay for the medical bills, pay the employee for time they have to spend recovering, etc. However, I'm not sure that's always the case, I'm under the impression that a lot of high risk professions try to get around these benefits by hiring temporary or seasonal labor. So, if you're a logger or a fisherman or a farmhand, your chance of injury is going to be quite high, and who knows what sort of benefits you'll get if/when bad things happen.

I guess the big difference with football is that children play football and emulate the pros in a way that is unlike how children might go fishing or help out on the farm...

Re:Concusion detection tech

[ed1park]

The parent is quite correct, and there is a confusion about the term grip. Traction control will help you here. Not 4WD.

Grip is really determined by a set of proper tires. A good set of winter/all-season tires on a two wheel drive car will outperform any set of sport or mediocre tires with 4WD in bad conditions. This is true for braking, accelerating, hydroplaning, etc. (2wd and 4wd drives brake the same. all 4 wheels will brake)

What will stop oversteering and other loss of control is a good traction control system like ESP in Benzes that will cut power and apply brakes to the wheels by determining your instantaneous speed, direction and yaw angle. To avoid hydroplaning, deep and specialized tread patterns are crucial so you need decent tires.

Bottom line, the quality of your tires will be the bottle neck. Have great tires in good condition. And drive safe.

Check out tire rack for a set that handle rain and snow well. I like the all season Contis and dedicated Blizzaks for the winter.

Obligatory SMBC

[djlemma]

It's a Tradition!

Re:Obligatory SMBC

[hierophanta]

im sorry but SMBC is not oblig. (get off my lawn!)

Go figure.

[Anonymous Coward]

Multiple hits cause chronic damage. That's why I kept my son out of hockey, and why I'll keep him out of football as well. Soccer and swimming seem relatively safe. Being Canadian, a lot of people rag on anyone who says that hockey is dangerous for hits (like that twit Don Cherry) but it's just obvious.

Re:Go figure.

[Anonymous Coward]

heading in soccer also causes brain damage.

Re:Go figure.

[Anonymous Coward]

Soccer in the lower leagues can be. If you get at all competitive, you can't avoid practicing and utilizing "headers" and these absolutely have the potential to be damaging.

I quit soccer after getting to the point where I was forced to do a few of these in practice, after which I felt like I had my bell rung. It isn't worth it.

I'd recommend Ultimate for the, er, ultimate non-contact athletic sport.

CAPCHA: checkers (I guess that would work too)

Re:Go figure.

[KillDaBOB]

Well, I hope your son never plays soccer beyond the Recreational level. Part of the game is heading the ball, which can travel quite fast. It may be a very light ball compared to other sports, but remember your physics lessons: it doesn't matter what it weighs if it's moving fast enough. Pro soccer players (the linked article is about a pro sport, yeah?) often have brain damage from taking hundreds of shots to the noggin from a ball traveling 60+ mph; and that's the low end of a kick, there are players who can kick for 80+ mph, and a few who claim 90+ mph.
I think you're suffering from a condition called "over-protective parent disorder." ALL sports have risk involved. Some more than others, yes, but the two examples you give are also dangerous. ACL/MCL tears and ankle problems (along with the above example) are major parts of soccer. Swimming? Drowning doesn't seem to be very fun- and yes, it does happen.

Re:Go figure.

[Intropy]

There hasn't been an awful lot of research that I know of about CTE in soccer. But some early studies show that heading the ball in soccer is pretty similar to the frequent low level collisions that linemen experience in football. In a game a player is not going to head the ball that frequently. But in practice they often do.

Re:Go figure.

[ColdWetDog]

heading in soccer also causes brain damage.

Banging one's head against the desk when some idiot posts a convoluted edge case as a rebuttal to a general argument probably also causes brain damage, hypertension, blurred vision and damaged keyboards.

I should probably quit doing it.

Re:Go figure.

[Capt James McCarthy]

Multiple hits cause chronic damage. That's why I kept my son out of hockey, and why I'll keep him out of football as well. Soccer and swimming seem relatively safe. Being Canadian, a lot of people rag on anyone who says that hockey is dangerous for hits (like that twit Don Cherry) but it's just obvious.

Any physical activity can cause any injury. Sure, they may not end up as one with 25 years of head injuries, but end up with a limp and arthritis at the ripe old age of 35 as well. I played football back in the day and other contact sports. It's fun. It's more fun if you are decent at your particular sport. I'm sure it's even more fun when you are a top flight athlete, like those in the professional ranks. I've seen cheerleaders (girls) who have chronic knee and back problems a few years after high school. And even cross country can cause serious knee and ankle injuries. Would I discourage my children from partaking in sports. Never. I'd just have them be as smart as they can be. I'd even support boxing or MMA should my child wish. If that is their desire to play said sport, I would totally support them.

Re:Go figure.

[Synerg1y]

That's the thing though, and I'm surprised nobody has made this point yet... and slashdot is a shitty place to discuss anything football cause there's more to a sport than injury's... maybe so much more that some of those injuries are justifiable, ok no maybe here, you'd have to be stupid to become an athlete and not acknowledge that you may get injured.

However, that's not my point, my point is people have different thicknesses of their skull and a doctor measures that thickness and determines if you're able to say do boxing. Yours is obviously below what's required for soccer, because your head rings on a header play, doesn't mean that happens to the guys next to you... and that's how you were born. Maybe a way to fix football would be to put in place such a test for positions such as lineman, but have fun telling the guys playing in college right now they'll never make it to the nfl because their skull isn't thick enough to guarantee a career free of brain damage, a riot would ensue, us Americans take football very seriously sometimes.

Re:Go figure.

[Enderandrew]

Soccer does actually have higher concussion rates in youth sports than football.

Re:Go figure.

[CanHasDIY]

heading in soccer also causes brain damage.

Banging one's head against the desk when some idiot posts a convoluted edge case as a rebuttal to a general argument probably also causes brain damage, hypertension, blurred vision and damaged keyboards.

I should probably quit doing it.

Not enough data points.

We're going to need you to continue until we can develop a good representative sample; your next of kin will be notified.

Re:Go figure.

[Anonymous Coward]

MMA eh? "Son, I'd be proud to watch you get repeatedly punched in the face."

Re:Go figure.

[UnknownSoldier]

> a lot of people rag on anyone who says that hockey is dangerous for hits

Reminds me of that old joke: I went to the fights and a hockey game broke out.

We've had touch hockey, touch football, etc, for years. It helps keeps the focus on _gameplay_, not the gratuitous and idiotic hitting. It is barbaric that men are so stupid that they have to revert to violence for entertainment. /sarcasm Who cares if someone gets permanent damage for the rest of the life if the fans are entertained, right!

Re:Go figure.

[Anonymous Coward]

Then where are all the brain injured soccer players?

Re:Go figure.

[karnal]

Americans take money very seriously. NFL and College Football are very good at bringing in money, from what I can tell by ticket and concession pricing.

Re:Go figure.

[Anonymous Coward]

There hasn't been an awful lot of research that I know of about CTE in soccer. But some early studies show that heading the ball in soccer is pretty similar to the frequent low level collisions that linemen experience in football. In a game a player is not going to head the ball that frequently. But in practice they often do.

I was never very good at this. After a couple times when I "faced" the ball instead of "heading" it I gave up soccer and stuck to other games.

Re:Go figure.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been severely concussed from soccer. I was hit in the head three times in one game(!) - I didn't have the option to sit the game out, I was made to play. (A friend of mine had minor foot surgery a few days prior, and the same teacher made him run half a mile regardless of the surgeon's note.) The real prick of it all was the teacher, who kicked the ball the hardest and knocked me over, didn't even send me to the hospital. I was right out of it.

Re:Go figure.

[steelfood]

Drowning is the most peaceful way to die. That having been said, you're least likely to drown if you swim competitively. Drowning usually happens to the people who don't know how to swim or are weak swimmers.

Additionally, competitive swimming is a non-contact sport. It's more of an exercise than a sport, like gymnastics or track.

I don't disagree with your sentiments about soccer though.

Re:Go figure.

[Anonymous Coward]

Swimming is clearly one of the most healthy sports out there along with tai-chi and all this gymnastics, thats why doctors here highly recommed it for overweight people (less stress on the joints compared to i. e. jogging). And by the way, once you swimm as a sport its *quite* hard to drown doing it.

Clearly there are risks involved in almost all sports but I would also prefer one where you dont get constantly hit in the head or tackled/bodychecked (maybe risk a damaged knee / knee-operation when i'm 40 clearly beats braindamage???).
Whats wrong with basketball? Volleyball? Biathlon? Tai-Chi? Jogging?

Its just a lot of people with a strange sense for entertainment want to see those more "manly" sports, like 2 MMA guys beating the shit out of each other, cracking bones and all that stuff. We should be over this since the roman empire..

And for all those guys who call my examples "boring" sports: try to watch less often and actually *TRY* them instead.

Re:Go figure.

[dissy]

Drowning is the most peaceful way to die.

Wait, what?!? How could you even think that?

I mean yes there are _many_ worse ways to go (IE burning alive, heart attack) but drowning is far from peaceful let alone the most peaceful method by far!

The fear of predicting it about to happen due to the relatively longer time it takes, the burning of the lungs and chest trying to fight it, the feeling of taking in that first lung full of water... That is pretty not peaceful sounding!

Going in your sleep is obviously the most peaceful way to die, hands down.

Current understanding of brain aneurysms state that it feels similar to being given anesthetic and just going to sleep in seconds.

A low blood pressure attack that hits fast enough has similar effects (mild versions of which I've experienced personally) - it's only the slow onset ones that really give you more than 1-2 seconds to realize what is going on before the buzzing in the head and tunnel vision makes you numb and unconscious.

I've suffered from that last condition myself before, and have had attacks ever since I was about 10 years old.
The fast ones barely give you a couple seconds warning with a tingling sensation and loss of vision, before you simply wake up laying on the ground.
Even the slow one are not at all painful, just frightening as hell at the realization that your vision hasn't yet come back after the usual 5-10 seconds it normally does, and you just start becoming aware of the fact you can't feel your body, wondering if this will be the one time you don't snap out of it and just won't wake up.

Re:Go figure.

[tehcyder]

I quit soccer after getting to the point where I was forced to do a few of these in practice, after which I felt like I had my bell rung. It isn't worth it.

You must not have been taught how to head the ball properly then. The basic point is that you should attack the ball with your forehead (usually) and not just let it hit you as you try to avoid it. Every kid at school here in the UK learns this by the age of about 8.

You're more likely to get injured by an accidental clash of heads as you jump up to head the ball with another player, rather than from the header itself.

Re:Go figure.

[tehcyder]

Pro soccer players (the linked article is about a pro sport, yeah?) often have brain damage from taking hundreds of shots to the noggin

Bullshit, that's not something I've ever heard, do you have any evidence whatsoever?

Re:Go figure.

[tehcyder]

I've been severely concussed from soccer. I was hit in the head three times in one game(!)

Being hit in the head by a ball when you're not expecting it is NOT the same thing as deliberately heading the ball.

Re:Go figure.

[tehcyder]

Soccer does actually have higher concussion rates in youth sports than football.

Unless you use special extra-heavy balls in the US, and encourage your kids to head the ball with their temple or the back of their neck or something, I'd say that's fantastically unlikely.

Re:Go figure.

[Enderandrew]

And yet every report I've seen on the subject says soccer is on par with football, or worse than football for concussions.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/mar/16/heading-taking-lot-blame-concussions-increase-socc/

Last year, high school soccer players suffered more concussions nationally than athletes in basketball, baseball, wrestling and softball combined, according to estimates from the Center for Injury Research and Policy (CIRP) in Columbus, Ohio. Although the media has focused on concussions in football, little has been written about the effects of concussions on soccer players.

Re:Go figure.

[tehcyder]

Then where are all the brain injured soccer players?

They become managers.

Re:Go figure.

[petit_robert]

Listening to one of them speaking would give you all the evidence you need. I'm being harsh, though : they do seem relatively bright, when compared to soccer supporters.

(yes I _am_ bitter from seeing that stupid sport being hugely subsidized)

Re:Go figure.

[KillDaBOB]

So what you're saying is.. "I've never heard of it. I'm smart as a whip. If I haven't heard it, it can't be true!" All you had to do was go to Google (heard of it?) and type in "soccer player brain damage" and... well, I won't ruin the surprise for you.

Re:Go figure.

[KillDaBOB]

I'll agree that swimming in a pool is one of the safer sports you can be in. For the sake of argument, change that pool to the ocean, and all bets are off. People do swim for sport in oceans, so it's a valid argument.

Anyway, taking in a lungful of water and getting pneumonia as a result isn't fun. Missing the wall that you're supposed to turn on and instead going into it head-first isn't fun either. Competitive swimming is hard stuff. You use your entire body to go as fast as you can, sometimes for as long as you can. Anyone who has done sports can tell you that when your body gets really, really run down from the competition you're in, strange things can happen. Misjudgments happen ("where's that wall? shit!" *headcrack*). Tiredness can cause you to not get your head out of the water fully and take in a big old lung of water instead of air. Even a small bit of water in the lungs can lead to sickness.

But I make these points just for the argument. People say swimming is one of the safest things in the world to do, and I have to come up with something that says, no, it's not. But to argue with myself, I had a number of swim team friends in high school and I can't remember anything really bad ever happening to any of them because of swimming. Every other sport had its broken bones, sprains, concussions (back then those didn't matter so much), and the rare ligament tear. Believe me, once you see someone go down with a ACL tear 15 feet away from you, you never want that to happen to yourself.

"Punch Drunk" IT.

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering how important our brains are to geeks, I bet the rate of CTE is much lower in our group.

Re:Phut Bawh

[Anonymous Coward]

football

I think you meant to type "handegg".

It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[slashmydots]

To all you haters who want to end football and say it's so horrible, tada, boxing reference right there, staring you in the face.

a condition once known as 'punch drunk' because it affected boxers who had taken multiple blows to the head

As opposed to the boxers that never get hit in the head in their entire career? The entire sport is giving each other concussions and you hear more complaints about the NFL than boxing these days. I think the loudest whiners are just soccer fans and/or people who don't like football.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude... not helping. Those same people wouldn't mind seeing boxing die as well for the same reasons.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[PlastikMissle]

Why are you assuming that people who are for ending football aren't against ending boxing as well?

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[MichaelusWF]

Boxing used to be one of the biggest sports in the US, now it's a Vegas sideshow, and the whole "beating people retarded" problem is a pretty big reason why. It's not that people are ignoring boxing's problems, it's that they've already addressed them and the popularity of the sport has plummeted as a result. Most people don't want to box, it's hard to find people willing to fight for a pittance in return for guaranteed brain damage. (Note, by comparison, the popularity of MMA, which does not rely purely on knockouts to win -- you can still give someone brain damage, but it's not literally the only or even the easiest path to victory) Football, on the other hand, is something that a lot of people play starting as young as grade school. I've never seen a grade school boxing league, but I see ads for peewee football signups every year.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[Anonymous Coward]

Boxing is on the decline in popularity. Not so with football.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not that people are ignoring boxing's problems, it's that they've already addressed them and the popularity of the sport has plummeted as a result.

I like watching some sports history but not a sports enthusiast, so can you explain?

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it sad that immediately after mousing over that link, the training song from that film popped into my head?

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[Radres]

Yet golf had unsurpassed popularity when Tiger Woods took over, and the predominantly white hockey still lags behind the other pro sports like football, basketball, and baseball.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF are you talking about? Tyson was *incredibly* popular until he lost the championship.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[Darth Snowshoe]

It's not that people hate football. I honestly love to watch football. I grew up in Buffalo during Jim Kelly's prime. There was nothing finer than watching sixty minutes of hurry-up offense, believe me.

But there's two things. One, the amount of litigation is about to go ballistic. The NFL is flush with cash and everyone knows it, and retirees and their widows everywhere are lawyering up.

Two, no one in good conscience is going to let their kids go out for football anymore. No one. Would you let your kid play, knowing just what we know today?

So you don't have to hate football - even people who love a good play-action fake can read the writing on the wall.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[DNS-and-BIND]

This just in: racists look at race first whenever any topic comes up, and can only see skin deep when looking at issues. Pathetic.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet golf had unsurpassed popularity when Tiger Woods took over, and the predominantly white hockey still lags behind the other pro sports like football, basketball, and baseball.

A) Different era from Boxing. Racism was a much bigger problem for boxing in the 80s than Tiger in the 2000s. Also, seriously? Tyson et al vs pre-scandal Tiger?
B) Hockey keeps having work stoppages.
C) Hockey is only meaningfully playable in cold weather areas. (You can refrigerate a rink in Florida but the local talent and interest pool will be, on average, minimal without free access to ice skating. That means frozen ponds and lakes in winter time.)

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[Anonymous Coward]

And it's amazing how often they're correct.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[sjames]

There's no such thing as peewee league boxing and there's practically no high school boxing. As a result, there is a lot less worry about people getting involved before they're mature enough to weigh the personal risks properly.

But note how much less respected boxing is as a sport today compared to the past.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[steelfood]

You can even argue that desegregation is one of the causes of a sport to gain popularity, and the greater the diversity, the greater the popularity. Sports like golf and tennis have certainly gained in popularity as the number of non-white superstars increased.

Unfortunately, hockey is a cold weather sport, so that will always be dominated by whites.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[Rakarra]

As opposed to the boxers that never get hit in the head in their entire career? The entire sport is giving each other concussions and you hear more complaints about the NFL than boxing these days. I think the loudest whiners are just soccer fans and/or people who don't like football.

This is kindof a shitty thing to say, but I think US sports fans (of which I am one) sortof expect by now boxers to be to be mentally slow thugs who barely have a bell to ring in the first place, while they hold (many) American Football players to a bit of a higher standard.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[jjsimp]

Yeah, It was only after he went all Hannibal Lecter on Holyfield and beat the crap out of his wife that the Tyson hate was in full force.

Re:It's even in the same paragraph this time!

[tehcyder]

Unfortunately, hockey is a cold weather sport, so that will always be dominated by whites.

That's right, there are no black people in Canada

In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[MyLongNickName]

In fine Slashdot tradition, let's hear from 52 people telling us that correlation does not imply causation and that only people with brain trauma or predisposed to it play football.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[Hentes]

Well it does take an idiot to play it.
Still better than the Slashdot tradition where instead of arguing against an opinion you simply restate it like it would somehow invalidate it.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[Jmc23]

Nope. It takes an idiot to not understand it, just like any other activity humans participate in.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[Anonymous Coward]

Still better than the Slashdot tradition where instead of arguing against an opinion you simply restate it like it would somehow invalidate it.

No, you're wrong. It's quite common for people on Slashdot to aggressively and rudely attack a post while agreeing entirely with it's content. You must be new here.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[LateArthurDent]

In fine Slashdot tradition, let's hear from 52 people telling us that correlation does not imply causation and that only people with brain trauma or predisposed to it play football.

I've got a different argument.

It's a dangerous sport and there are a multitude of ways the players can get seriously hurt. The players know that going in, and are willing to take on the risks for the rewards. What exactly is the problem?

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[Enderandrew]

Football is perhaps the most complex of the major sports. To excel at it, especially at the NFL level, you have to be fairly intelligent.

Perhaps you were suggesting that only idiots take a known risk for no reason, but we're only now discovering evidence linking brain damage to football. So guys like Junior Seau weren't idiots for playing the game.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[gl4ss]

it's still boring if you understand it. maybe even more so.

seriously playing madden '91(or whatever year it was, ega graphics, dos) was kinda fun.

watching it is much less so.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is that mental illness effects people other than themselves. In football, when a player has a physical injury, they are treated by some of the top-of-the-line surgeons to fix that problem and get back on the field. However, the NFL has been slow to acknowledge the recent findings regarding mental injuries, and this results in players facing mental illness on their own. And when they have limited capacity, they tend to act violently or dangerously towards others.

So you might be correct if you say that "Society accepts these costs, because we all enjoy watching a game, and we already know ahead of time that we'll be depressed later when some big hit results in the death of some innocent bystanders falling to the wrath of these big injured men. Anyone within 6 degrees of connection to a football player knows that, so what exactly is the problem?"

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[RoccamOccam]

Football is perhaps the most complex of the major sports. To excel at it, especially at the NFL level, you have to be fairly intelligent.

I've got nothing to say about the rest of your comment, but this statement is absolutely not true. I went to high school with William "The Refrigerator" Perry (a very successful NFL player). I bet even he would laugh at the suggestion that he is "fairly intelligent".

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[Enderandrew]

The game has changed significantly in the decades since he played. Pure size is no longer the advantage it once was.

Offensive and defensive playbooks are quite complex. New packages and formations are installed every week. And it isn't simply memorizing a great deal of information. Players (especially at professional levels) need quick reasoning skills to analyze everything unfolding around them at blistering speeds.

Before the NFL draft, incoming players go through a combine. Vertical leap, 40 yard dash times and the usual are compiled. But players now have to take an intelligence test as well.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[RoccamOccam]

The game has changed significantly in the decades since he played. Pure size is no longer the advantage it once was.

Offensive and defensive playbooks are quite complex. New packages and formations are installed every week. And it isn't simply memorizing a great deal of information. Players (especially at professional levels) need quick reasoning skills to analyze everything unfolding around them at blistering speeds.

Before the NFL draft, incoming players go through a combine. Vertical leap, 40 yard dash times and the usual are compiled. But players now have to take an intelligence test as well.

Sure, they take the Wonderlic test, but that is just another factor in whether they are drafted and how much they are paid. That doesn't mean that there is a minimum score before you're allowed into the NFL. It is well known that the Wonderlic test is important for quarterbacks, but you rarely hear about the score of an offensive lineman.

Perfect score on the test is a 50 and one player made that (a punter). The average score is a 21. Frank Gore, a running back, scored a 6 on the test, but was still drafted in the third round.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[Enderandrew]

Frank Gore is an amazing athlete and yet didn't start his rookie year. Running backs are more likely to start as rookies than many other positions where raw speed and fresh legs are preferable. Part of the reason he didn't play more early is that he took longer to learn the offense than some of his counterparts. And his low Wonderlic score is part of the reason why he was drafted in the third round as opposed to the first round, even though by pure athleticism, he was perhaps the best college running back. It cost him millions of dollars.

People who haven't played football often underestimate the amount of strategy in the game.

Here is a real basic breakdown of the offense the 49ers and Frank Gore operate in today. It requires quick decision making skills.

http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2012/12/27/3792740/pistol-offense-nfl-redskins-rg3

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[RoccamOccam]

William Perry was also an amazing athlete. But, he wasn't "fairly intelligent". Your rationalization of Frank Gore does not prove your point -- he wasn't "fairly intelligent". He may have done better or made more money if he was, but he still made it into the NFL. He's clearly not the only player in the NFL that isn't "fairly intelligent". You don't have to be "fairly intelligent" to make it into the NFL.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[VortexCortex]

In fine Slashdot tradition, let's hear from 52 people telling us that correlation does not imply causation and that only people with brain trauma or predisposed to it play football.

Negative. I put it to you: Natural Selection will eventually correct for this. We pay them a lot, the star players are sexually and socially desirable.

Eventually we'll grow thicker skulls and/or our brains will shrink to contain more fluid, much like a wood pecker's... Much in the same way that "tall dark and handsome" has lead to taller darker and more sexy humans... Now if we could just get on board with crotchless pants, all guys could finally grow giant cocks.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[Anonymous Coward]

Perry played one of the brute force positions, as a nose tackle in a 3-4 his primary responsibility was to tie up as many interior offensive linemen as possible. The defense he played on was pretty much a pure brute force defense, overloading the points of attack and essentially running over the offense before it had time to react. It was incredibly successful for a short time, one of those few moments in pro sports when talent and coaching combine to be almost unstoppable. It was completely successful only for one season and as the talent deteriorated and teams worked out how to handle it, it became less and less successful.
My point I guess, is that Perry is one of the last examples I would choose as an example of whether or not intelligence is required to play football. A modern QB for instance, has to get the play, pass it on to his team, as the teams line up decide whether or not the play will match up against the defense in place (all the while trying to determine how they are disguising what they are doing). If not, he has to decide what will work and change the play with a series of complex codes. Once the ball is snapped he has to read what is happening on the field as players are flying around with frightening speed and force and react appropriately. His counterpart on the defense (usually but not always a middle linebacker) has in the meantime been doing much the same. Each individual player is also reacting to the play as it unfolds, the better ones reading the situation and making adjustments on the fly to help with the success of the play.
Granting you the benefit of the doubt that as a Slashdot reader and poster that you are a person of above average intelligence, I doubt that were you or I suddenly granted the physical size and ability to play pro football (or any pro major league sport), that we could ever learn enough about it to play successfully without years of preparation and practice.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[jjsimp]

Not to mention Dexter Manley who couldn't even read after four years of college.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[Anonymous Coward]

We would have to lose our modesty to wear crotchless pants. Most people, especially here in USA, are scared of their kids seeing a bare breast let alone a swinging cock between someone's legs.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[Anonymous Coward]

After the kickers, offensive linemen are the highest on the wonderlic.

Re:In Fine Slashdot Traditon

[MyLongNickName]

Except there is no evolutionary pressure to select for thicker skulls. The injuries cause problems long after the players have ended their career and have had their kids.

Are we surprised

[fermion]

The only people who believe that repeated hits to the head is harmless are those whose livelihoods depend on the general populous repeatedly allowing themselves to be hit on the head. The only people who believe inhaling massive quantities of pollutants is harmless are those who livelihoods depend on the general population inhaling massive quantities of pollutants. The only people who believe eating high fat low nutritional foods on a regular basis is harmless are those whose livelihood depends on the general populous eating such food.

And in all these cases an informed population chooses to engage in harmful activity. In the case of football, families clamor to put their small children in harms way, knowing, or at least should know as the information is out there for all to see, that treatment of injuries that are effective in mature athletes are much more difficult and expensive in immature athletes, often with a worse prognosis. Adults clamor for the pay that football gives them, then the public criticizes teams for using these athletes to do what they are paid to do.

So this is no surprise, and for the most part I suspect it will not change anything. People who need to believe will say that helmets are better, that athletes are better taken care of, that this is a one time thing. And then kids will be put out on the field, hit, and like type 2 diabetes which had been almost non existant in children, we will likely see symptoms of the increased rate of brain injury.

Re:Are we surprised

[ColdWetDog]

While you are correct - people's perceptions of gains / harms are amazingly enough, strongly biased by how much they stand to gain from the behavior, getting this message out to the general public time and time again is needed if the overall perception of those activities is to change.

While American Football (Commercial Ball? Beer Ball?) will be the social core of many a small town for years to come, real football ('soccer') is slowly gaining respect and support in no small part because it is perceived as healthier and safer. Change will be slow, but by the time the US moves to the metric system, soccer will have replaced football in much of the country.

Non of us will be alive when that happens, but oh well....

Re:Are we surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

by the time the US moves to the metric system, soccer will have replaced football in much of the country.

I have no doubt whatsoever that this is literally true.
You could put something in there about the permanent rise of a third political party, too.

didn't shoot himself in the head?

[schlachter]

Interesting that he didn't shoot himself in the head. I wonder if that was a calculated move so that scientists could examine his brain to find the cause of his debilitating brain injuries?

Re:didn't shoot himself in the head?

[Desler]

Yes, it was.

Re:didn't shoot himself in the head?

[PlastikMissle]

Seeing that he donated his brain to science before he killed himself, I think that's a fair assessment.

Re:didn't shoot himself in the head?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could be. According to Wikipedia, "Seau's death recalled the 2011 suicide of former NFL player Dave Duerson, who shot himself in the chest and left a suicide note requesting that his brain be studied for brain trauma.[31][32]" That could be where he got the idea. Seau didn't leave a note, though.

Re:didn't shoot himself in the head?

[geoffrobinson]

Another less famous player died in the same manner, but I believe he left a note saying to study his brain. Since this was in the same manner, it was believed Seau was trying to say the same thing.

Re:didn't shoot himself in the head?

[Jmc23]

Citation? Article says his family donated his brain after he killed himself.

Re:didn't shoot himself in the head?

[GodfatherofSoul]

He left a suicide note saying that's why he didn't shoot himself in the head.

Re:didn't shoot himself in the head?

[Anonymous Coward]

It wasn't so much a 'donated his brain to science' type letter, but rather 'wrote in the suicide note that he didn't shoot himself in the head for exactly that reason'.

In the end, it amounts to the same... the guy's choice was to have scientists look at his brain.

Re:didn't shoot himself in the head?

[PlastikMissle]

I heard it on NPR this morning. I may have misheard, or the report was inaccurate.

Re:didn't shoot himself in the head?

[Jmc23]

The beauty of reality, eh?

Surprise!

[mariod505]

What is surprising, is that this is surprising.

Joe Biden, hear my roar!

[Anonymous Coward]

Murder, suicide and general crime rates are higher in the NFL than those outside the NFL. The NFL must be banned. If it would have saved this one life it would have been worth it.

Horse already out of the barn

[sjbe]

There exist sensors that can be placed into the helment and detect hits that are potentially damaging.

If those are triggered then the damage is already done. More to the point if you are in a sport where that sort of thing is necessary, perhaps playing that sport isn't such a good idea. I have nothing particularly against american style football as a sport (heck I've taken boxing lessons) but if we're causing that much damage then maybe we should reconsider our entertainment choices.

Re:Horse already out of the barn

[Anonymous Coward]

I have nothing particularly against american style football as a sport

Right. If you are reasonably gonna be against any part of it, how about the mindless groupthink fanboyism and the worship of jocks who don't actually contribute much of anything to society?

The doctor who finally cures cancer will be anonymous and unheard of compared to the latest star NFL quarterback. This is very sad.

More people play football

[sjbe]

The entire sport is giving each other concussions and you hear more complaints about the NFL than boxing these days

Not many people are in the sport of boxing. A few thousand nationwide maybe. Football on the other hand is wildly popular with participation counts likely in the millions. While your point is valid, we can prevent a lot more injuries by worrying about football.

Re:More people play football

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, in many areas, football is practically a requirement. I was the only boy in my school who was not on one team or another. By the end of the year, every year, when injuries had ripped through the teams, I would be approached by multiple teams, who were desperately trying to field a full team, and offered all sorts of things, including cash, just to put a body on the field.

Simpler, cheaper solution

[crypTeX]

Eliminating the "protective" equipment worn by the players would massively decrease the quantity of brain injuries. Players hit at speed and tackle head-up and in front of the runner (vs the rugby style) because from Pop Warner on they are "up-armored" like a Hummer in Jalalabad. Everything about how you are taught to hit in football (everything I was taught through high school anyway) becomes impractical when you take away shoulder pads and the facemask, especially at the higher speeds in college and the pros. Go to the soft helmet and no shoulder pads and the blood will fly but the concussions will drop dramatically. Since we have made good strides in treating lacerations and broken bones but can't fix brain injuries, I would vote for a trip in the way-back machine to early years of football.

Re:Simpler, cheaper solution

[MarkvW]

You don't want to take that trip in the way-back machine to the early years of football. They almost banned the sport at the college level because so many kids were getting killed.

Re:Simpler, cheaper solution

[crypTeX]

Yes, but it was the rule changes instituted between 1905 and 1909 that brought down the injuries and deaths, not the introduction of modern padding. It used to really be trench warfare with gang tackling, no distance between the players at the start of each play, eye gouging, etc... I will grant that the number of injuries will not decline, but I would argue that the type of injuries will be different and easier to treat.

Re:Simpler, cheaper solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe we'd be better off if they had banned it back then.

Re:Simpler, cheaper solution

[jjsimp]

Not to mention some of the more modern rule changes. No more Hangman tackles, No horse collar tackles, Blows to the head, etc.

Only The Brain?

[hondo77]

Too bad the family didn't have doctors study what years of (alleged) steroid abuse did to him. Easier to point the finger at someone else, I suppose.

Re:Only The Brain?

[GodfatherofSoul]

My suspicion has always been that steroids HAD to have something to do with this because 1.) only some players are affected and 2.) a body builder friend from college who told me about all his roid-raging friends. But, I think there've been recent studies showing no correlation.

Re:Only The Brain?

[MarkvW]

Think about the damage caused to OTHERS by the steroids that football players take.

The hits are artificially made harder than "normal."

Re:Only The Brain?

[CanHasDIY]

Too bad the family didn't have doctors study what years of (alleged) steroid abuse did to him. Easier to point the finger at someone else, I suppose.

Don't need to, there's already a control group for that - baseball players.

All the same steroid abuse as the NFL, minus the repeated head injuries.

Re:Only The Brain?

[Radres]

They did.

http://articles.latimes.com/2http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/01/10/1843246/nih-neuroscientists-junior-seau-had-brain-disease-caused-by-hits-to-the-head#012/aug/21/local/la-me-0821-junior-seau-20120821

Re:Only The Brain?

[Radres]

But studies are showing CTE in kids who played just high school ball.

your skull is a helmet

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one of the dumber comments modded up I've seen in a while. You are adding extra layers of protection from your brain and impact.

Re:your skull is a helmet

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one of the dumber comments modded up I've seen in a while. You are adding extra layers of protection from your brain and impact.

You're also adding extra layers of protection to the people hitting you.

Here's an experiment: Go punch someone in the face. Right now. I'll wait. See? Hurts like hell, doesn't it? Hm? No, no, I mean YOU. As in, your fist hurts like hell, right? You're slamming your fist into bone there. Sure, your target's not going to be in good shape, either, but you're pretty well done bashing his face in for the day, aren't you?

Now, put on boxing gloves and punch someone in the face. Hey, look at that! Your fists don't feel nearly as bad, do they? Heck, you can just keep on punching them in the face, can't you? Why not give your target protective headgear? Man, then you can punch them even more and for longer periods of time! Don't hold back! Just keep slamming their skull and brain with your padded fist! Your fists won't feel it!

See that last part there? The part about not holding back? Anyone who's been in a fight knows damn well that movies are full of bullshit: You can't reasonably expect to floor someone with one bare-knuckle punch and be in any condition to take down his fifty friends standing right behind him in the same manner. And, since people generally tend to avoid doing things that will cause them a ton of pain, anyone who knows this will avoid trying to deal out blows to the face, regardless of how much more damage it would seem to cause. But, protect that fist, and the punches will come repeatedly. Will each punch be as damaging as a bare-knuckle, bone-on-bone blow? No. But will there be a much longer series of not-quite-as-damaging, but-still-pretty-nasty hits? Yes.

So, let's leave boxing for a sec and go to football. First smartass who comes onto an American website acting confused as to what sport I'm talking about will be dutifully ignored. As will be the second or third. In fact, all of them. You have tacklers looking for a way to halt the progress of whatever chump has the ball, as well as any of his friends who get in their respective ways. Let's say you're the star tackler! Yes, you! Get out there in your jeans and t-shirt and launch yourself head-first at that other be-t-shirted fellow's head! Go for the tackle!

Didn't feel very good, did it? Like hell you're trying THAT again. Once your head stops swimming in the next quarter, your next tackle will be at the much more soft and squishy midsection.

Now, put on all your padded just-short-of-combat-armor. Padded chest protector, padded helmet, padded pants, etc, etc. Your opponent has the same armor. NOW go launch yourself at the guy with the ball!

BOOM! Right in the helmet-protected face! Sure, he's still moving, but his head had to take a pretty nasty, though padded, blow! And what's more, you're still up, too, ready to do it again in under 35 seconds unless someone calls a timeout! And you'll keep doing this THE ENTIRE GAME! The game can go on, and what's more, it can go on with BIGGER, HARDER HITS!

Still think all that protection is there for the players being hit?

Re:your skull is a helmet

[Flere Imsaho]

A helmet will prevent skull fractures, but it won't prevent your brain sloshing up against the inside of your skull due to rapid changes in velocity.

Why is this on Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is that tech news?

Re:Why is this on Slashdot?

[pastafazou]

because, more and more, slashdot has become a dumping ground of any news with a hint of science in it or related to it. It's about flooding content, so people spend more time daily reading stuff that doesn't really matters to them, because they don't want to miss something that does.

Changes to football are coming...

[dtjohnson]

It's inevitable that the game of 'football' is going to have to drastically change its rules to take away the traumatic brain injuries. It will start with high school football, then college, then the NFL. What school district or college can afford lawsuits over that? Maybe it will have to become flag football or, more likely, some sort of hybrid with limited blocking and tackling. Whatever results, though, the Football 2.0 rules will end the present situation where brain injuries are a certainty.

Re:Changes to football are coming...

[FatAlb3rt]

How widespread is this certainty of yours? Probably more common with a guy who's been playing for a couple decades - including 10 yrs in the NFL - than the typical RB that only lasts 3 yrs.

Re:Changes to football are coming...

[lord_mike]

Football 2.0 will also be very unpopular. It's a very difficult choice for rulemakers--make the game safer and see the popularity of the game drop precipitously, or keep things as they are and suffer lawsuits and reduced participation from youth.

Re:Phut Bawh

[Oxdeadface]

That gets funnier every time!

But seriously, if your eggs look anything like footballs, you're shopping in the wrong stores.

Re:Phut Bawh

[0bject]

Which one is the gay one? Is that the one with the spandex pants and the man mounting the other man with his hands between his legs?

Re:Phut Bawh

[Anonymous Coward]

The one that they should remove from the Olympics because they already have a sport there that judges the best dives.

Mandate full mouthguards and not mouthpieces

[GodfatherofSoul]

Guys like Marshall Faulk, a running back who took a ton of hits, never had a concussion.

Why all the problems *now*?

[GodfatherofSoul]

I'm still skeptical about a purely head trauma cause for football CTE problems. Pro football has been around a long time and guys have been getting concussed for decades. There seems to be a recent pickup in serious problems.

Re:Why all the problems *now*?

[Anonymous Coward]

Athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster. We are also better able to diagnose problems as well.

I love the intense nature of the sport, but there has to be some kind of change that limits (or completely eliminates) hits to the head. I can only really speak for hockey, but I really wish they would remove fighting. I've never really understood the need to fight. Growing up, my dad always said that if someone gives you a cheap shot (or a teammate that you want to stick up for), you take their number and you make sure you get out there the next shift and hit them so hard (in the chest/shoulder) they'll be scared to touch the puck. I dunno, a bone jarring hit usually does the job (makes your opponent scared to touch the puck, or scared to be a cheap shot), and people don't usually end up with long lasting / permanent damage.

Re:Why all the problems *now*?

[saider]

Players are getting bigger and faster, but brains are still delicate.

Re:Why all the problems *now*?

[laura20]

Because the players are bigger and stronger. The average offensive lineman is 60, 70 pound bigger than even 30 years ago, much less 60. More mass, more impact.

espn.go.com/espn/page2/story/_/id/6933214/tmq-mel-kiper-jr-size-increase-football-players

There's probably also other factors -- I suspect training is also more intense, and all those training hits add up too. But the sheer size of your modern football player is a big one.

Re:Why all the problems *now*?

[Anonymous Coward]

The old sizes were intentionally under reported. Guys like Refrigerator Perry were huge.

pickles

[cifey]

So when we were cave tree men we probably used to bash each other in the head on a daily basis but we didn't worry about it too much as we rarely lived past 30yrs. In an activity which involves alot of bashing there is no way to protect the brain except maybe to limit the frequency and allow for more than proper recovery for the noticeable incidents. So for the NFL, make it a once a month sport with 3 weeks off after every game ... And more experimentally Pickle the head bones to make them softer?

well...

[Charliemopps]

At least we're worrying about something important like the fate of multimillionaires that played a little too rough and not wasting our time on things like poverty, cancer, the failing economy...

Re:well...

[Kaenneth]

This research may also prove valuable for returning war veterans, who were exposed to concussive explosions repeatedly; which also causes long term brain injury.

Re:well...

[Charliemopps]

an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Keep the troops home, no messed up brains. Lets instead, focus on problems that don't have easy solutions like "Don't ram your head into people repeatedly" or "Don't invade 3rd world counties and expect them not to try and blow your ass up"

Re:Phut Bawh

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he's talking about the traditional game of headbrick.

Re:Phut Bawh

[Darth Snowshoe]

This has nothing to do with statism. Conscientious parents simply aren't going to let their kids go out for football. Who wants to set their kids up for a lifetime of this - particularly if it increases their likelihood of an early death, of suicide, violence off the field or debilitating mental illness?

Why does everything have to be a political argument? This mostly has to do with being humane. If you wouldn't want this to happen to yourself or your loved ones, why would you pay to see it happen to somebody else?

We have the technology, this should be easy!

[Agent0013]

What we need to do is remove the skull of football players and put more padding around the brain. There would be a new permanent skull-helmet placed over the brain-padding to protect from cuts and sharp edges. I'm sure all the football players will look rather strange with giant heads, but we would get used to it after a short while. On the plus side for the players, they will be very easy to recognize out in public, so their fame will go up even more.

Re:Phut Bawh

[Applekid]

Why does everything have to be a political argument? This mostly has to do with being humane. If you wouldn't want this to happen to yourself or your loved ones, why would you pay to see it happen to somebody else?

Because for generations school funding had been diverted away from the fundamentals of an enriching education in favor of sanctioned sports. And as the public school system crumble with teachers and professionals alike saying we need to focus on education, our politicians gladly raise our taxes only for the windfall to again be mismanaged into non-priority academics.

Best case is that it was blind loyalty to a stupid game of tribalism, worst case is that it's intentional to keep the cup rattling for more money.

Re:Phut Bawh

[K. S. Kyosuke]

No, he just needed to make it clear that this was a reference to the non-gay one.

The non-gay football? You mean the one with less contact than the other one?

Re:Phut Bawh

[ericloewe]

You forgot the scrotum-sniffing.

Re:Phut Bawh

[MightyMartian]

Frankly I wish they would dispense with the half-assed warfare of football, and bring back the gladiatorial games. Instead of mock battles over some stupid ball and goal posts, let's just move the game straight to big motherfuckers cutting each other to pieces. We can triple their pay, and they likely won't make it to 40, let alone to the point where they start suffering the ill effects of neurological damage.

I mean, if these guys are going to end up brain damaged messes in the end anyways, why not just short circuit all of that and go for the blood. That's what audiences really want, anyways. I can just see Hank Williams Jr. shouting "It's time for Monday Night Slaughterhouse!"

Re:Phut Bawh

[Anonymous Coward]

Call it Rehabilitation.

Bring on Beef Supreme!

Better traction

[Anonymous Coward]

Has increased the speed and force of hits in today's game. When I played highschool football fields were not always in the greatest shape. In college they were much better and artificial turf offered even better traction.
Slow the players down might be the best answer, besides I miss those old sloppy games on fields with terrible drainage.

Re:Phut Bawh

[Hatta]

We can only hope. Football is now scientifically proven to be more dangerous than marijuana. It's time to start sending football players to jail.

Re:Phut Bawh

[Hatta]

This has nothing to do with statism.

Sure it does. A demonstrably harmful past time is legal, while a much less harmful past time is illegal. Why? Arbitrary and capricious authority, that's all. Statism run amok.

This is not new

[Bill_the_Engineer]

From wikipedia (which have links to the relevant sources):

From its earliest days as a mob game, football was a violent sport. The 1894 Harvard-Yale game, known as the "Hampden Park Blood Bath", resulted in crippling injuries for four players; the contest was suspended until 1897. The annual Army-Navy game was suspended from 1894 to 1898 for similar reasons. One of the major problems was the popularity of mass-formations like the flying wedge, in which a large number of offensive players charged as a unit against a similarly arranged defense. The resultant collisions often led to serious injuries and sometimes even death.

Interestingly while the bloody Harvard-Yale game took place in 1894, the first use of a football helmet is attributed to George "Rose" Barclay. Who in 1896 wore straps and ear pieces to protect his ears. The late 1910's marks the first use of hardened leather on to of the head to deflect blows to the top of the head. Read some interesting stuff here.

It seems that the injuries and deaths were in the sport PRIOR to the introduction of helmets and padding. It took rule changes in 1905-1906 to make the game "safer", and it looks like we are due more rule changes to mitigate the problems we are discovering today.

Re:This is not new

[lord_mike]

The flying wedge was originally a rugby play. It was used on kickoffs, just like the American version. Here's what it looks like:

http://youtu.be/enTb9wlLB1I?t=22s

It wasn't banned from Rugby until the 1980's.

You just contradicted yourself

[DragonWriter]

while it is more common for a rugby player to end up with a more severe injury, they dont happen as often.

It can't both be "more common" and not "happen as often".

Re:Phut Bawh

[reboot246]

Because for generations school funding had been diverted away from the fundamentals of an enriching education in favor of sanctioned sports.
<br>
You do realize that most high school football teams and nearly all college football teams are virtually self-supporting, right? In fact, some programs actually bring $$$ into the school. For some colleges it's millions of those $$$.

Pussies

[skitchen8]

Coal miners get black lung, programmers get carpal tunnel, police officers get shot, firefighters run into burning buildings, truck drivers get in accidents. Want to know the one difference between that group of people that are subject to long term debilitating disease? We don't piss away millions of dollars and then complain we can't afford health care, because we didn't have millions of dollars to begin with. It is a risk of the job that you get paid insane amounts of money for, suck it up and quit wasting all your fucking money. I am a huge football fan but these guys are seriously the biggest crybaby pussies in the world.

Get rid of the helmets

[Nyder]

If they don't wear helmets, they aren't about to go headfirst into tackling as much. The Helmets are offering fake protection. Sure, short term protection, but nothing long term.

Or figure how to make helmets that absorb all the impact.

Re:Phut Bawh

[Anonymous Coward]

Did this oppressive nanny state you're struggling against IN YOUR OWN MIND outlaw boxing? Motorcycles? Horse riding? Or keeping a handgun in your family home? Because if you polled a bunch of ER doctors, that's what they'd tell you are dangerous activities.

Hang gliding, bungi jumping, sky diving, piloting private planes, piano-lifting, writing bad checks, Class B fireworks, running with scissors - what is it exactly that you want to do that our oppressive statist jack-booted government is preventing you from doing?

Getting hit in the head is bad for you?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Pff...next week science will say it's good for us!

I haven't had my fill of knocks to the head yet; everything in moderation, and it won't kill you. Can even abstain for a while, and then build-up to a running headbutt on a wall, and you'll be fine!

Quack science on parade

[Anonymous Coward]

First, let me say that I believe that getting paid to get hit in the head is a crazy career choice given two facts:

1. Unlike most parts of your body, you cannot generally pay a doctor to repair your brain after you injure it.

2. Human crash test dummies like Muhammad Ali have already demonstrated that the idea is bad if you value brains over fame.

Having said that, however, Junior Seau was one of those few famous football players who (last I heard anyway) had never had a documented concussion. He was, by all counts, a great player and a good human being ...... but that plus an agenda simply does not equal good science. We need lots of brain studies of football players (enough to eliminate variables like ethnicity, body type, family histories, non-football injuries, etc) which then show the differences between those who've been hit in the head and those who have not.

It does not matter that I believe there is a link, or that anybody else believes there is a link, ....... real solid science is what matters and this look at one unfortunate man's brain just aint that

Re:Phut Bawh

[Rakarra]

Hang gliding, bungi jumping, sky diving, piloting private planes, piano-lifting, writing bad checks, Class B fireworks, running with scissors - what is it exactly that you want to do that our oppressive statist jack-booted government is preventing you from doing?

Pretty sure he's talking about teh marijuana.

So we're agreement

[ThatsNotPudding]

Totally nude football.

Re:Phut Bawh

[Anonymous Coward]

No, just get ready for them to join the other sports or activities that are not outlawed. And do not think that the geeks are safe from their wrath, because football is gone. If there were no sports, they would still want to kick your ass for being smarter than them.

There are better helmets

[Anonymous Coward]

Designed by a guy that has spent a lifetime protecting humans in 200+mph collisions. Equipment contracts by various leagues & schools could slow its adoption though.

http://www.manufacturing.net/news/2012/09/race-helmet-designer-turns-eye-to-football-safety

eliminate substitution

[cellocgw]

I'm pretty much in the "eliminate helmets" camp, but also think that eliminating substitution, or requiring, say, 10 plays from scrimmage before a player can leave the field would help too. Right now, many players are on the field for one play and they know they'll be subbed out for the next play (different yards to first down or whatever), so they go all-out no matter what.
If players had to control themselves so they could function for 10 straight plays, they might throttle back a bit. Plus it would force them to learn offense and defense, which I think would be a lot more interesting.

Re:Phut Bawh

[Kelbear]

I don't think there's as much "sport" in a gladitorial game as compared to our popular sporting events. If you're dealing lethal blows to one another, it takes only a momentary slip for a prime athlete to fall and high-level competition is diminished as a result of this loss.

In Boxing and MMA, there are long slugging matches, but sometimes you have one clean shot that ends the match in the first round. I'm aware that vast amounts of training had gone into living up events into that one clean shot, but it makes for a spectator event that is harder to enjoy because the battle isn't played out for others to watch.

It'll be harder to get invested in a gladiator if they only last for a couple rounds before an accidental slip ends their career.

Ri$k

[HHealthy]

I undestand those that claim that these guys assume this risks for good amount of money like tose that work in the army. But this isnt such a neccesary risk. What about developing better hemets. They can bare breaking bones, but damaging your brain is something else. I cant belive that they cant develop less fashionable and lightweight protections and more hitech and less appealing head protections. For funding, research and peer finding please refer to the non-profit Aging Portfolio.