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The Book of GIMP

Michael Ross writes "Web designers, graphics artists, and others who create and edit digital images, have a number of commercial image-manipulation packages from which they can choose — such as Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Fireworks (originally developed by Macromedia). Yet there are also many alternatives in the open-source world, the most well-known being GNU Image Manipulation Program. GIMP is available for all major operating systems, and supports all commonly-used image formats. This powerful application is loaded with features, including plug-ins and scripting. Yet detractors criticize it as being complicated (as if Photoshop is intuitively obvious). Admittedly, anyone hoping to learn it could benefit from a comprehensive guide, such as The Book of GIMP." Keep reading for the rest of Michael's review. The Book of GIMP: A Complete Guide to Nearly Everything author Olivier Lecarme and Karine Delvare pages 676 pages publisher No Starch Press rating 9/10 reviewer Michael J. Ross ISBN 978-1593273835 summary A comprehensive tutorial and reference to GIMP 2.8. Authored by Olivier Lecarme and Karine Delvare, The Book of GIMP: A Complete Guide to Nearly Everything was published by No Starch Press on 22 January 2013, with the ISBN 978-1593273835. The publisher's page offers minimal information on the book and its authors, as well as a skimpy table of contents, and a free sample chapter (the fifth one, on composite photography). Lecarme has a companion website where visitors will find additional resources, including bonus filters, a forum (albeit almost empty), and a selection of the example images used in the book.

This title's 676 pages are organized into 22 chapters and six appendices. The first eight chapters compose "Part I — Learning GIMP"; the remaining chapters compose "Part II — Reference"; and the appendices compose the third part. In a brief but pleasant introduction, the authors encourage readers to follow along by installing GIMP on a local machine. Installation instructions can be found in Appendix E (which arguably should be the first appendix, to get readers started with a local installation). The book is based upon the most recent stable version of GIMP, namely 2.8, which reportedly introduced significant improvements over earlier versions.

As one might expect, the first chapter introduces the basics of the GIMP user interface, explaining how to find and open images, use the menu system in the main image dock, and perform basic editing operations, such as resizing and cropping. It also presents some essential concepts in GIMP — filters, layers, and drawing tools — and then discusses the use of a tablet in conjunction with GIMP. The next six chapters each focus on a major category of image work: photo retouching, drawing and illustration, logos and textures, composite photography, animation, and image preprocessing. The last chapter in the group covers utilizing GIMP for crafting the visual design of a website. The only problem I found in the narrative is the inconsistency in terminology, primarily the references to something as a "dock" on some occasions, and other times as a "window"; also, the "multi-dialog window" (page 4) is later called the "multi-docks window" (page 18). Nonetheless, the prose is straightforward and concise; there is a lot of information contained in each section. Consequently, anyone reading these tutorial chapters should take them at a modest pace, and frequently compare the authors' narrative and one's understanding of it with the screenshots and/or one's own results if following along (a practice I strongly recommend for this particular book, so one will better internalize the broad ideas as well as the details).

Each chapter concludes with a set of exercises, whose questions tend to be much more open-ended and difficult than those normally found in technical books. In fact, readers may be frustrated how some of the exercises challenge one to perform task completely unmentioned in the corresponding chapter. For instance, the very first one in the book, Exercise 1.1 (page 24), asks the reader to build a new dock with dialogs, even though at no point in the chapter was the reader told how to do anything remotely like this. Appendix B contains tips for a minority of the exercises.

The bulk of the book, "Part II — Reference," offers almost 400 pages of details on every aspect of GIMP: the user interface, its displays, layers, colors, selections, masks, drawing tools, transformation tools, filters, animation tools, scanning and printing images, image formats, scripts and plug-ins, and other methods of customizing the application — with each chapter starting with the basics. All of the information is terrific, but the thoughtful reader may wonder why the book begins with advanced topics — such as photo retouching, composite photography, animation, and website design — and later presents the detailed explanations of all the aforementioned aspects of using GIMP. It seems to me that it would have been better to present the Part II chapters first, and then present the advanced topics currently in Part I, except for what is now Chapter 1 ("Getting Started"), which would still be a fine way to begin the explication.

The third and final part contains half a dozen appendices, the first of which is a fascinating exploration of the science of human vision and the three main models of digital color representation. As noted earlier, the second appendix contains tips and hints for some of the chapter exercises. The third appendix is brief, but contains a wealth of online resources for anyone who would like to learn more about GIMP and its community. The next appendix contains a list of frequently asked questions and their answers, and is well worth reading. The fifth chapter explains how to install GIMP on computers running GNU/Linux, Unix, various Linux distros, Windows, and Mac OS X. The final appendix addresses batch processing of images, including the use of ImageMagick.

The production quality of this book is excellent (judging by the print copy kindly provided to me by No Starch Press for review). It was a smart choice on the part of the authors to request full-color images on every page, and the publisher's decision to do so, given the book's visual subject — even though it resulted in a heavier product (3.4 pounds).

Naturally, as a book discussing an image editor, this one makes extensive use of example photos and other images, which are extremely helpful to the reader. Only a few problems were evident; for instance, Figures 1.24 and 1.25 are so small that the cropping pointers are almost invisible. In some cases the descriptions or screenshots do not match what I saw when following along; for instance, on page 3, the author states that the three startup windows (Toolbox, Image, and multi-dialog) by default occupy the full width of the screen, which contradicts the screenshot in Figure 1.1, which shows the Image window at partial width.

The writing is generally clear and easy to follow, even though some of the phrasing is odd (e.g., "source text" to mean "source code"), perhaps because both authors are French. That could also account for the errata — for instance, "on [the] left" (page 15) and "its there" (page 22) — of which there were remarkably few for a book of this length.

If any reader is looking for a free and full-featured image-editing program, then by all means consider GIMP, as well as this outstanding tutorial and reference book.

Michael J. Ross is a freelance web developer and writer.

You can purchase The Book of GIMP: A Complete Guide to Nearly Everything from amazon.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

197 comments

  1. My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I don't really have much to say about this review or the article, but I'd like to say, as someone who has been using GIMP extensively for the past six months, it's a really fantastic program and probably one of the best, most reliable, and most useful free/open source software packages I've used. I wish there were something like the GIMP, but for music production.

    1. Re:My experience with the GIMP by loufoque · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, it's almost as good as Photoshop 5.0!

    2. Re:My experience with the GIMP by jones_supa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This. I like to rant about OSS brokenness, but GIMP is one of the programs I really do not have much to complain about.

    3. Re:My experience with the GIMP by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 0

      > I wish there were something like the GIMP, but for music production.

      Could your describe your work-flow including type of assets you need to manipulate along with the operations needed so we could better understand the problem please?

      Also, could list what open source audio programs have you tried? What functionality did they fail to provide? What UI problems did you run into?

    4. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone who has been using GIMP for 12 years, I can say the UI is garbage.

    5. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ardour doesn't do the job for you?

    6. Re:My experience with the GIMP by cristiroma · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Amen! I would be happy to see more people being honest about it.

      I've been used Photoshop about 15 years and I would say Photoshop should be the first example to teach on the UIX classes. It's so great that even a 5 years old could get around in couple of hours.

      I don't want to troll about it, I'm a developer and I can appreciate the hard work of people behind GIMP. And their influence over Linux world with GTK. Still I hate to see people comparing saying "GIMP is waaaay better than PS".

      Guess what! It's NOT!

    7. Re:My experience with the GIMP by hardie · · Score: 2

      Clap, clap, clap, clap.
      I have struggled with Gimp for several years (only intermittent use). I tried to avoid it, because it always took a bunch of work just to figure out how to do something that should be simple.

      Just recently I switched to Photoshop. What a breath of fresh air. I'm having very few problems.
      Stuff that I commonly did in Gimp through several menus and drill down choices; in PS there are three control key presses that do the same thing. I'm sure you could force Gimp to do something similar, but what's the point? PS is by far easier to work with.

    8. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because GIMP has been around for a ridiculous amount of time, and has pretty much stuck to the same back-end windowing since it started, ala GTK+....

    9. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Phase+Shifter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, it would be nice if they would pick a UI and stick with it.
      It seems like whenever someone publishes a good book on how to use GIMP, the GIMP team immediately overhauls the UI, changing all the menus to make most of the text utterly useless.
      Alternatively, the blame can be placed on the authors and publishers for releasing a book when they know a new UI is forthcoming. It's not like they don't have access to the prerelease versions of the new UI.

    10. Re:My experience with the GIMP by loufoque · · Score: 1

      That was sarcasm.
      Photoshop 5.0 is from 1998.

    11. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check out Ardour. Have been using it for years and love it. A little difficult to wrap your head around all the features and functionality, but it's a really well-done piece of OSS.

    12. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're funny...

    13. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Photosho = $600 dollars. Gimp = $0 dollars. Ipso facto gimp = winner. You can make arguments about ease of use and such, but unless your job requires something not available in GImp, then Photoshop isn't better.

    14. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Desler · · Score: 0

      Photoshop Elements is $70 and still way better than Gimp.

    15. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know that you can freely bind nearly any keypress to nearly any menu item in the GIMP at will on the fly, right?

    16. Re:My experience with the GIMP by zbuhrer · · Score: 1

      Why does it have to be a question of how complicated it is? That's lazy reasoning. It's about cost-effectiveness.

      So what you're basically saying is that you'd rather pay for a product just because it's easier to use than the free one? That's like going out to buy a new car just because it's comfortable, when you already own three or four perfectly good alternatives that you only have to put the effort into driving. Maybe one doesn't have AC, maybe another one doesn't have a radio, but they all get you from point-A to point-B. And you don't have to spend any money. But you'd rather spend the money.

    17. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I could restate the entire comment I made replacing Photoshop=$600 with Elements =$70 and the point would be just as valid. In fact I am willing to bet that GIMP is way more capable then elements. You can make usability arguments, but that does not make it inherently better..

    18. Re:My experience with the GIMP by maxwell+demon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In which way?

      I always read comments like "PS is better" or "Gimp is better", but those are usually just claims without giving any substance.

      So please elaborate: What is better in Photoshop Elements than in Gimp?

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    19. Re:My experience with the GIMP by hardie · · Score: 1

      It's still a crap interface. Saying it's free doesn't make it better.

    20. Re:My experience with the GIMP by wjousts · · Score: 1

      Some people attach a value to their time, you apparently do not.

    21. Re:My experience with the GIMP by zbuhrer · · Score: 1

      I attach value to effort, though yes I do have the time to put forth the effort to use an application that's worth more than the $0 pricetag, where the benefits to using something "easy" that performs the exact same operations is not worth $200-600, even if only by comparison.

    22. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Photosho = $600 dollars. Gimp = $0 dollars.

      Ipso facto gimp = winner.

      You can make arguments about ease of use and such, but unless your job requires something not available in GImp, then Photoshop isn't better.

      Is your time worthless? Are you one of the few who is not routinely infuriated by a program which has long been the poster child for user-hostile open source software? Is your budget too thin to pay $600 for a good tool, even if you need it? Or perhaps you don't use software of this type more than once in a blue moon and therefore can't justify $600? (or even $70 as Desler points out?)

      If any of these things apply to you, Gimp might be better. Otherwise... not so much. Price is not the sole determinant of whether one thing is better than another. Arguing otherwise marks you as a fool.

    23. Re:My experience with the GIMP by QuasiSteve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't you think you might be tainted by your 15 years of use with Photoshop?

      Don't get me wrong - I'm certainly not saying that GIMP is 'waaaay' better than Photoshop. Far from it. But a 5-year old (really? let's try 8, at least.) can probably find their way around either of them in the same amount of time.

      Just to counter your example, I've mostly been used to another graphics editor and GIMP, and only occasionally use Photoshop. Here's some of the things I encountered in the past that I thought "oh sweet jesus, wtf?"

      Panning around an image. Practically any application middle mouse 'button' and drag away. Photoshop? Hold the space bar, and drag with left mouse button. Huh?

      Adding a layer mask. Right-click layer, choose 'add layer mask'. Photoshop? I had to actually google this.. it's a funny looking icon of a rectangle with a circle in it at the bottom of the layers dialog. What?

      Zooming. Ctrl+scrollwheel - again, almost any application. Photoshop? Alt+scrollwheel. Eh?

      Pasting bitmap data on the clipboard as a new image. Edit, Paste as, New image. Photoshop? File, New, OK, Paste. Change to single layer or Photoshop will complain when you try to save the thing. Really?

      Yeah, when you get used to it and learn the keyboard shortcuts these really aren't big issues - I don't really think about them anymore. But I wouldn't exactly hold all of Photoshop up as an example in UIX classes.
      ( Fly-out tools don't help either. Long-press a tool to find other tools that may only be vaguely related to the tool you first saw? )

      Counter-counter example - GIMP's transform tools. Who do I bribe to bump those up to the top of the "let's fix this" list?

    24. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ... I wish there were something like the GIMP, but for music production.

      Actually there is. It's called Linux MultiMedia Studio (LMMS). I really like it. it's fast, has a nice UI, and reminds me of Fruity Loops Studio.

    25. Re:My experience with the GIMP by cristiroma · · Score: 1

      I could probably be biased being used to PS. But indeed I use the keyboard a lot. Alt and Ctrl seem to be so natural.
      Though, latest versions are stuffed with features I would rather pass.
      Tried GIMP few times for quick image fixes (using brush, text and layers) but no more than that. Maybe I should read this book.
      Btw, the story with 5 years old is truth, too. Although must admit the kid had talent.

    26. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter how valuable you think your time is. If you simply _cannot afford_ Photoshop, then it doesn't exist.

    27. Re:My experience with the GIMP by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Ardour just isn't a product professionals would use. I know several professionals who use GIMP.

      At least once a year, I take another shot at open music production tools. I would love to see something, but it's just not happening.

      My own theory is that it has to do with the difficulties in using professional digital audio interfaces with Linux. If vanilla interfaces could be easily used with Linux, you'd see a more vibrant community of music producers who use the platform. Also, the proprietary nature of the most useful plug-ins (VST, DX, etc) hangs everything up. What good is a open source DAW if you can't use your favorite EQ or virtual instrument? That's going to be a hard one to overcome, but I'm glad to see that there are people working on it.

      For now, Linux is great to use for outboard rendering and plugins, sample streaming, etc., but not as a main production system.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    28. Re:My experience with the GIMP by cristiroma · · Score: 1

      Only because productivity it's not in your vocabulary. Than, who am I to judge your grammar ...

    29. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Support for more than 8-bits per colour channel/plane:

      • Photoshop: Yes.
      • Gimp: No. (Gimp can import some 16-bit/channel images, but downsamples them to 8-bit/channel thus losing information.)

      Works with images in non-RGB/sRGB colourspaces:

      • Photoshop: Yes.
      • Gimp: No. (Gimp can import some non-RGB and non-sRGB images, but converts them all to RGB thus losing information.)
    30. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I need a MIDI sequencer. I used to use Rosegarden, but recent versions have been full of bugs. The MIDI export feature has been broken in the last two releases (as far as I know). The interface controls used for inputting pitch bends, volume controllers, etc, are very difficult to use and they glitch up if you change the zoom level.
      I now use OpenMPT (running in wine) for pretty much all my music projects, though it doesn't have MIDI export so I can't use it with my hardware synthesizers.

    31. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I personally would place the GIMP somewhere between Elements and CS in functionality. That said, for the vast majority of tasks, Elements is quite adequate. If a little more power is needed, then the GIMP is good, and if you really need / want to have the latest wizz-bang image editing tools at your finger tips, then CS is the way to go... although, if you're patient, something similar often turns up in the GIMP later on anyway.

      As a professional photographer doing this for my bread and butter, I am actually now into my tenth year using the GIMP (and ImageMagick) for all my editing work, and I have been immensely satisfied with the functionality, ease of use and stability of that program... not to mention the price! Nonetheless, I am certainly not unfamiliar with working with the Photoshop products, mainly through working together with others (it's probably no surprise that some of my friends are also photographers!). The interfaces are quite different, but once you know them, I wouldn't say either is "better"; I find both equally easy to work with. However, it does seem to me that Photoshop probably does lend itself better to fitting readily into a good work flow.

      But ultimately, what I find matters most for effective editing is not so much the tool, but rather a good knowledge and understanding of the underlying principles. With that, it really is pretty easy to learn to use a new program and do wonders with it. Much like photography itself really, and many other things like computer programming.

    32. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Clap, clap, clap, clap. I have struggled with Gimp for several years (only intermittent use). I tried to avoid it, because it always took a bunch of work just to figure out how to do something that should be simple.

      Just recently I switched to Photoshop. What a breath of fresh air. I'm having very few problems. Stuff that I commonly did in Gimp through several menus and drill down choices; in PS there are three control key presses that do the same thing. I'm sure you could force Gimp to do something similar, but what's the point? PS is by far easier to work with.

      I can't comment on your workflow, but for the work I do (mostly sprite work or photo enhancing), most everything I need is in the toolbox or on one of the tabbed permanently docked tool windows. I don't dig, I just click or hit the hotkey. For comparison, the few times I've tried my wife's photoshop I usually have to dig or ask how to do something. I'm not saying either interface is better, just that both need time to learn.

    33. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Panning around an image. Practically any application middle mouse 'button' and drag away. Photoshop? Hold the space bar, and drag with left mouse button. Huh?

      Space+drag I think is a convention across Adobe applications, I use that with Illustrator. AI also does shift-scrollwheel to pan horizontally. In GIMP I have to put the mouse over the scroll bar to pan. Only place I've ever seen dragging with the middle button to pan around is Firefox.

      Zooming. Ctrl+scrollwheel - again, almost any application. Photoshop? Alt+scrollwheel. Eh?

      Under OSX, ctrl-scrollwheel zooms the screen (accessibility feature)

      Personal experience:
      GIMP - OSX Snow Leopard & Linux
      Adobe Illustrator - OSX
      Inkscape - OSX & Linux (still learning this one, I'm too used to the way Illustrator works)

    34. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It exists. You can download Photoshop CS3 from Adobe for free.

    35. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Adobe == buy company to remain relevant. See Macromedia, Cool Edit Pro, and PhoneGap for more details.

      Seriously though, what a trip. Between LibreOffice, The GIMP and Linux, you'd think this stuff still matters...

      High end print web development and/or print? You are going to use Creative Suite?

      Everyone else... The GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus, etc. Even then if you work hard enough, and have the right employees, you can make a workflow around thse tools.

    36. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "then" not "than"

    37. Re:My experience with the GIMP by dbIII · · Score: 1

      People used to bitch mainly about gimp having a multiple window interface while photoshop had a single window (and acted as it's own window manger inside that!). Now both can do both.
      To sum up "better" is just doubleplusgood for "different".

    38. Re:My experience with the GIMP by dbIII · · Score: 0

      Both consume fairly equal amounts of time.

    39. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GIMP allows scripting (lisp, perl, python, and others).

      Photoshop has macro recording (called actions). No programming skill required. Photoshop also has Python API's (and probably more) if you really want. This is a big deal.

      When did Microsoft Office get macro recording? This isn't a new idea, it is far from innovative, but how many free and open programs even offer a decent scripting API or plugin system let alone macro recording?

      I've gotten lazy and gone back to lots of proprietary software. No doubt I'll be annoyed by the next upgrade, the cost, the incompatibility, the software abandoned, those things all suck and I'll probably kick myself later and maybe there is software out there that is "good enough" for your needs but don't be fool enough to say it isn't missing things.

      GIMP now still isn't as good many older versions of Photoshop. There are so many great ideas that GIMP like so many other project has not even started to implement, it amazes me that developers can be so oblivious or in denial of what else is out there and I'm just talking about commercial software, there are so many more old ideas in research and university papers that surprises me when I find them, and even some of the things GIMP has thrown out because of bit rot and lack of plugin maintainers.

      You want to know about problems with a project check the bug tracker, read the code, there is no shortage of evidence if you choose to see it. Even the best projects know they have many more things they could do, it is just the worst projects that are enough in denial to ever think they are "good enough" and I doubt the GIMP developers would ever claim there aren't a million more things they hope to do.

    40. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS Paint $0 dollars (effectively)

      I can do anything I need pixel by pixel ... ... there are some amazing artists out there who have.

      "When you have only hammer everything looks like a nail"

      The GIMP is not bad, but it could be much much better, and if you have actually used Photoshop in the last decade you might know that. Adobe is a notoriously paranoid company, worried that Microsoft or Corel or some other bully might steal their lunch at any moment. Adobe is a moving target, always improving.

    41. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No matter how many times I hear someone say "It could be worse" I do not find it reassuring.

    42. Re:My experience with the GIMP by MusedFable · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As someone who embraces copyleft and is a strong supporter of free software GIMP isn't a replacement for photoshop yet. The roadmap for GIMP should make it possible after 2.10 or 3.0 Here's what I need to switch: Unified transform tool so I can scale, rotate, shear, etc all with one tool (currently available in 2.9 dev) On Canvas Preview so I can see what something looks like without having to commit and undo a change over and over again. 16/32 Color Bit Depth (CMYK would be good but not required). This is already in GIMP, but not supported by everything. After GEGL is fully integrated this will be great. Layer Masks and other nondestructive editing. Massively speeds up productivity and prototyping. I'd really like an improvement to layers in GIMP. Right now you can't select multiple layers and move them up and down. Layer groups makes it tolerable, but it's still slower than photoshop. On top of that the UI of GIMP is big and ugly. The menus are in akward places with way too much white space and padding taking up a good chunk of the screen. Some of this can be fixed with icon packs, customized panels, and a new theme, but it's always going to be a little oversized and awkward. Photoshop's menu organization is just about perfect; might as well copy it.

    43. Re:My experience with the GIMP by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      I wish there were something like the GIMP, but for music production.

      The way I go about this personally, have jack as the audio/midi backend, rosegarden as sequencer, hooked up to several synths, bristol for analog, linuxsampler for sampled things like piano, yoshimi for other synth things, all hooking up to ardour to record.

      It's a little messy using multiple programs chained together, but you get used to it.

    44. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd guess "User Interface eXperience" but I seriously suspect the usability skills of anyone who deliberately hides information behind acronyms or jargon.

      "It's all Greek to me"

      A good doctor can tell it to you in plain English (or whatever you native language)

    45. Re:My experience with the GIMP by atomican · · Score: 1

      Here's another counter (counter-counter?) example - in the most recent versions of GIMP, you need to select Export rather than Save if you want to save in a bitmap format like PNG/JPG/GIF/etc. Save is now reserved for the native GIMP file format. Technically it makes sense since it clearly separates the functionality that would save all your layers and whatnots that only the GIMP format could retain, and those which do not. Only problem is a lot of people expect Save to also allow saving in multiple file formats just like any other program.

      Apart from that, the stuff you mentioned, particular the panning and zooming, are things I definitely agree with and am happy that I'm not a graphics artist and hence don't have to "unlearn" anything since I never used PS much in the first place.

    46. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try something PS Elements, its less than $100

    47. Re:My experience with the GIMP by cristiroma · · Score: 1

      Was I too subtle?

    48. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's nothing "insightful" about this comment. The fact that it's gotten a +5 Insightful rating just shows the author is preaching to the Open Source choir, which he is damned aware he's doing.

      In point of fact, the GIMP is as its stupid name declares -- a crippled, unintuitive image manipulation program that doesn't hold a candle to photoshop.

      Come on, get serious, you people: Why do you suppose after all these years there's not a SINGLE professional graphics house using it?

      GIMP simply doesn't cut the mustard. It doesn't offer the tools graphics professionals need. Nobody uses it except a fringe crowd of diehard Linux enthusiasts whose expertise is computers, not graphic art.

    49. Re:My experience with the GIMP by ameen.ross · · Score: 1

      Their new unified transform tool should already be done and I suppose it's in 2.9. I haven't tried though.
      http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Transformation_tool_specification

      --
      $(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
    50. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, the time needed to learn to figure out Photoshop with all its weird ways of doing things (the UI being a mix between MacOS classic and Windows 3.1), needs to be added to those $600.

      That makes it Gimp $0, Photoshop $5600.

      Learning a different program than one is used to is ALWAYS going to take time.

    51. Re:My experience with the GIMP by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      That wasn't my point. For the things it's appropriate for in the music production environment, Linux is stellar.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    52. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mode parent up. I have exactly the same experience. I've used the GIMP on & off for years, but just don't seem to naturally grok Photoshop. Sure, Photoshop may well be objectively better by a number of metrics, but I jus tnever seem to be able to get anywhere with it.

      At the risk of starting a war, it's a bit like emacs to a long-term vi user.

    53. Re:My experience with the GIMP by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      Nobody uses it except a fringe crowd of diehard Linux enthusiasts whose expertise is computers, not graphic art.

      No, GIMP is used by people who don't want to pirate Photoshop and who can't justify or afford paying for a license. The competition is not between Photoshop and GIMP, it's between Paint.net and GIMP. I prefer GIMP so far, but then again I don't do enough editing to justify a Photoshop license so my experience with GIMP and Paint.net is limited.

    54. Re:My experience with the GIMP by QuasiSteve · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Unified transform tool

      Couldn't possibly agree more. For the curious, it's not just about being able to scale/rotate/shear/etc. with one tool - it's about those operations happening concurrently when finalized. Right now, a scale followed by a rotate is lower in quality than a rorate followed by a scale. So if you ever scale something down to roughly the size you need it to be, then realize it needs to be rotated a bit - you'll have to perform the rotation, jot down how much you needed to rotate it, undo both the rotate and the scale, rotate it by the amount you jotted down, and scale again.
      And no, the cage deformation tool is not an appropriate alternative - it doesn't do a point-to-point deformation. The perspective tool is also not an appropriate alternative, as you can't retain aspect ratio (why this is still called the 'perspective' tool is anyone's guess).

      On Canvas Preview

      Preferable using the on-screen pixels for performance sake. This would need quite a few changes under the hood, but GEGL does allow for this.

      16/32 Color Bit Depth

      Yep - and, with it, appropriate support for RAW files.

      Layer Masks and other nondestructive editing.

      I don't know if this will come to GIMP in the foreseeable future.
      For the curious, think of this as the old (might still be in there, haven't used it in forever) Adobe Premiere workflow of adding effects in realtime, and then having to 'render' to the final output.
      So in the above example of scale/rotate - right now if I scale that back up, I get a bunch of blocky pixels (or fuzzy, depending on extrapolator). In a non-destructive workflow, it would reference the original pixels. The down side to this is that you need to keep references to everything and, of course, have to 'render' the final result.

      I'd really like an improvement to layers in GIMP. Right now you can't select multiple layers and move them up and down. Layer groups makes it tolerable, but it's still slower than photoshop.

      Honestly, I'd keep layers for simplicity sake (for most purposes, it's just fine), but add an additional node-based workflow. I'm guessing you're familiar with node-based workflows, but those who aren't.. google it.. it makes you wonder why we're still using such a simplistic concept of layers in the first place.

      Photoshop's menu organization is just about perfect; might as well copy it.

      Going to have to disagree with you there. I find no logic in Image, Adjust... to adjust something on what happens to be the active layer, considering the effect it has is on the layer, not on the overall image. That's just one of many little bits that confound me.
      I'm not saying GIMP's menu and tool layout is better, mind you - just that when looking for ways to improve it, as I said in another comment, not all of Photoshop is gold.

    55. Re:My experience with the GIMP by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I mentioned that change in another comment noting that I think it's the wrong direction to go, and somebody else also mentioned this change as a negative one.

      Supposedly the GIMP developers talked to 'professionals' and made the change based on their input. I hope they stop talking to 'professionals'.

      That said, I do know of a few other applications where save/save as deal strictly with their own native data formats and you have to use import/export to work with others. None of them are in the graphics realm, but they do all have one thing in common: save to anything but native, and you lose all your work. You're left with just the 'end result', as it were.

      The same applies to The GIMP. I guess if there really were a bunch of users who made images with a bunch of layers, layer masks, etc., saved to JPG, and then when they had to make a change found that not only was all that information lost but re-saving made the quality go down, then some protection against themselves may be warranted. However, older GIMP versions already had warnings about exactly that - perhaps the warnings should have been improved, perhaps a preference override should be offered (it is, sort of), but ultimately I can 'understand' why the change was made and - knowing the keyboard shortcuts - it's not that big of a deal (again, same argument as in my list of things in Photoshop that are wonky).

    56. Re:My experience with the GIMP by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      No, I'm pointing out quirks in Photoshop. Again, I use it from time to time and am perfectly proficient with it. Do I prefer X over Y? That depends entirely on what I need to do, not whether or not it is open source (I certainly don't compile the thing myself, so I certainly have no direct stake in that aspect) or whether it is the defacto standard and big shot photographer/graphics design artist So DeSo lends their name and made-up quotes to marketing material.

      Unfortunately you didn't actually address the points I was making, but rather attacked its name (hey, fair enough, I do so in another comment) and then suggest no professional graphics house uses it. Odd - I know several that do, there's a reason CinePaint was created and was initially based on The GIMP.

      I think you should learn from your co-AC who at least bothered to point out why some things I mentioned were just so - even if I still think they're quirks:
      http://books.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3440537&cid=42826763

    57. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol no. Sorry. It's got a very confusing and just plain bad interface, it lacks important features (no midi export, the last versions I tried sometime in 2012 didn't have support for stuff like pitch bend/tremelo/volume/etc), etc. I think it has great potential, but there is a great deal that needs fixing before it will be useful.

    58. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that Rosegarden is a broken mess these days. And each new release just adds more bugs. I'm personally very sad about this because I used it a lot from 2005 on, but since early 2012 it's just been too broken for me to want to use at all. If I could code I'd be working on my own midi sequencer.

    59. Re:My experience with the GIMP by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      Photosho = $600 dollars. Gimp = $0 dollars. Ipso facto gimp = winner. You can make arguments about ease of use and such, but unless your job requires something not available in GImp, then Photoshop isn't better.

      That's a stupid argument. Is a Nissan Micra better than a Lamborghini just because it's hundreds of thousands cheaper?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    60. Re:My experience with the GIMP by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It exists. You can download Photoshop CS3 from Adobe for free.

      [citation needed].

      I know there was a story on BoingBoing a couple of weeks ago where Adobe mistakenly let you download a full old version instead of an update or something. But I can see no evidence on Adobe's website that they have free full versions of ANYTHING to download. The only free versions of Adobe products (even something like Photoshop Elements which you used to get for free with scanners or cheap cameras) I have ever seen are pirated versions.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    61. Re:My experience with the GIMP by firecode · · Score: 1

      Renoise is not open source but is quite a decent DAW and intuitively if you have used trackers.

    62. Re:My experience with the GIMP by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      So what you're basically saying is that you'd rather pay for a product just because it's easier to use than the free one?

      Well, yes.

      Photoshop is a bad example because it's really quite expensive (350GBP at a quick glance, and you can buy a laptop for that) for someone who's not a professional graphics person, but in general I'd pay a reasonable amount for something that was noticeably better than a free alternative.

      If the philosophy of FLOSS can be reduced to "it's not very good, but at least it's free" then it's lost the battle. But it's better than that.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    63. Re:My experience with the GIMP by zbuhrer · · Score: 1

      My point is that The Gimp IS as good as Photoshop. A lot of FOSS alternatives are (though to play my own Devil's Advocate, I've seen plenty of applications that were both ugly and unusuable). Being "good" doesn't mean you have to put the least amount of effort into it as possible. If the philosophy of paying for otherwise free software is, "It's basically the same, but it does most of the work for me," then it's lost the battle.

    64. Re:My experience with the GIMP by SpzToid · · Score: 1

      Actually my time, as charged to clients, is relatively expensive. Therefore I have trained myself (as a web developer) to use GIMP for nearly every occasion, so when needed at the client site I can just download it and get to work without the time or hassle req'd to complete a purchase order and get it approved.

      Same is true with Inkscape btw.

      In case you are wondering, my clients are mainly enterprises that will balk at a new purchase request of several hundred, or even thousands of dollars worth of software; yet they still want it to 'just work', today.

      I, and my clients by way of extension, are free of Adobe.

      --
      You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
    65. Re:My experience with the GIMP by wjousts · · Score: 1

      Again...it depends on how much you value your time. Doing something "easy" saves time, whether or not the time saved over the lifetime of the product adds up to $200 - $600 depends on your situation.

    66. Re:My experience with the GIMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends where you want to drive it, I'd expect the Micra to be better for city driving.

  2. photoshop USED to be obvious. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I picked up Photoshop ver. 4 when I was 15 or so. It was very intuitive. I learned it in a few hours.
    However, PS is so bloated with features that I have a hard time learning what the new things are....or how they even "help" me. So no, it's not easy to learn PS these days. Too many icons and menus that's intimidating, imo. But because I've known PS, I can use it and know what tools are fundamental for my workflow.

    The problem (or benefit) of PS is that it's used across many industries and it's not limited to photographers. 3D artists use it. Medical imaging professionals use it. And everything in between. I think that's why PS is bloated to help those outsiders "in". I mean, you can configure it to have different workspaces depending on your work field.

    Anyways, it's no excuse to GIMP's lack of intuitiveness. Or rather, lack of focus. I see GIMP users as coders who want to do some web design on the side or fix something really quick to fit the website layout. Basically, web-related stuff. I wish GIMP would design the UI to cater to that demographic/ needs. Or maybe it already does, I'm just not the audience.

    -an actual professional photographer who actually makes a living taking photos & maintains a studio.

    1. Re:photoshop USED to be obvious. by icebike · · Score: 5, Funny

      Pretty much spot on.

      The Book of Gimp should probably have been released as 4 or 5 books, which you have to open all at once,
      with all the page numbers in one book, the example images in another and the text, in no particular order, heaped in yet another book.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:photoshop USED to be obvious. by StrayEddy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Check the single-window-mode please: http://www.gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.8.html

    3. Re:photoshop USED to be obvious. by Graydyn+Young · · Score: 2

      I see GIMP users as coders who want to do some web design on the side or fix something really quick to fit the website layout. Basically, web-related stuff. I wish GIMP would design the UI to cater to that demographic/ needs. Or maybe it already does, I'm just not the audience.

      I've been using GIMP for a long time and I've always found it very intuitive and it does everything I need from an image manipulator. And I'm a coder who usually just needs to quickly fix something to fit into a layout (not a website layout, but close enough). So you may be on to something there.

    4. Re:photoshop USED to be obvious. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Informative

      "The Book of Gimp should probably have been released as 4 or 5 books, which you have to open all at once, with all the page numbers in one book, the example images in another and the text, in no particular order, heaped in yet another book."

      The new version of Gimp has a more-standard single-window mode. That was the single biggest complaint before. So now the other large objections are coming to the fore.

      For example: among the multiple "select" tools, why is there not a simple "point and click" select tool for drawing objects? Every other major image manipulation program of which I am aware has one.

    5. Re:photoshop USED to be obvious. by radtea · · Score: 3, Informative

      The new version of Gimp has a more-standard single-window mode. That was the single biggest complaint before. So now the other large user annoyances have been added

      ... ...would be a better way to put it.

      The biggest one is the ridiculous and recently added "export" functionality for everything but the native file format. This is completely unlike every other editing application of any kind for anything anywhere. If I open a Word or RTF or plain text file in LibreOffice, for example, I can save it to that format with a keystroke.

      GIMP is a great program--I even got used to the floating windows after a few years--but its developers consistently treat their users with complete contempt, and in the case of the new export functionality they are actually doing more work to make the program harder to use.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    6. Re:photoshop USED to be obvious. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      GIMP is a great program--I even got used to the floating windows after a few years--but its developers consistently treat their users with complete contempt, and in the case of the new export functionality they are actually doing more work to make the program harder to use.

      it seems awfully like an attempt to force me to use their file format, which I almost never want to do. I'm not going to save every source file to everything I ever edited and keep track of it all.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:photoshop USED to be obvious. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe that artists and coders think differently. Maybe it's a right vs. left brain issue. But artists typically have an easy time with Adobe products, even if they're first time users. However, they start screeching to a halt when you get them to code even a simple script with an if-then or a loop statement. Nothing makes sense. I bet they'll have a better time with Visual Basic - the bane of any real programmer.

      On the other hand, the programmer can use things developed by other programmers FOR programmers. Adobe actually hires UI consultants or asks people who use photoshop to help them design their next UI iteration. Programmers intuitively know where to put the art tools where, how, and why. They lay it out like a program. For adobe, they lay it out like an art palette. They even use legacy language in the art trade (dodge, burn in photoshop; leading, kerning, picas, etc in illustrator). Adobe stresses the UI layout to make sense for artists transitioning from the real world. I think GIMP stresses a layout that makes sense for a programmer.

      Heck, even the reviewer (if you go to his website) is a coder. He has a background in mathematics instead of graphic design. I don't mean offense, but his web design aesthetics is a bit outdated by ~10 years. I bet he's really good with the back-end coding though. But design is just like fashion - you have to change it at least twice a year if you're a serious company trying to get to the general population.

      Design seems easy...until you actually do it. Artists focus on aesthetics, color direction, and user-friendliness. The programmer is concerned with latency, database integration and content management. GIMP has a place and time but I believe that's in the backroom next to python script archives and Apache servers. Photoshop is in the front with the creatives wearing fancy new clothes getting paid a small fraction of the salary of the programmer.

    8. Re:photoshop USED to be obvious. by Michaelejahn · · Score: 1

      Use LightRoom first.

  3. GIMP 2.8 SUCKS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    GIMP 2.6 was very good, even on Windows. Then they decided to force GEGL through in preparation for adjustment layers and other functionality to mimick Photoshop features that had been missing for a long time. The trouble is the reimplementation of these features has made them MUCH slower and buggier. For instance where arbitrary rotation was no problem in 2.6 all of a sudden only discrete steps are allowed in 2.8 - if you pick something inbetween on rotation dialog it rounds it to the nearest discreet step it's willing to do, then it takes a lot longer to perform the operation than it did in 2.6.

    GIMP is going the way of Firefox. "We know better, and it's free so you'll take these changes and you'll like them". FUCK!

    1. Re:GIMP 2.8 SUCKS by Hatta · · Score: 1

      For instance where arbitrary rotation was no problem in 2.6 all of a sudden only discrete steps are allowed in 2.8

      Use Layer->Transform not Image->Transform. I was able to rotate an image by 0.01 degree. I had to create a 5000x5000 image to be able to see such a slight rotation, but it still rotated almost immediately on my old 2.6ghz C2D.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:GIMP 2.8 SUCKS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For instance where arbitrary rotation was no problem in 2.6 all of a sudden only discrete steps are allowed in 2.8

      Use Layer->Transform not Image->Transform. I was able to rotate an image by 0.01 degree. I had to create a 5000x5000 image to be able to see such a slight rotation, but it still rotated almost immediately on my old 2.6ghz C2D.

      Thanks for the tip.

      Mind you that's even worse. If it can rotate a layer by an arbitrary amount, why not the whole image, which is just a stack of layers?

      Still very useful tip. Thanks again.

    3. Re:GIMP 2.8 SUCKS by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Open the layer dialog and click on the empty space to the right of the layer thumbnail. You will see a small chain. Layers with that chain are linked, so if you rotate one they all rotate the same. Link all layers, and you can use Layer->Rotate to rotate the entire image.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  4. GIMP vs. Ps by TemperedAlchemist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I see this battle a lot, but it's inherently flawed. GIMP was never created to compete with photoshop, and photoshop used by industry professionals don't only use Ps. It's usually used in tandem with illustrator, lightroom, etc. Whatever tool is best needed for the job.

    1. Re:GIMP vs. Ps by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Even the summary seems to be suggesting by this sentence:

      Yet detractors criticize it as being complicated (as if Photoshop is intuitively obvious).

      that Photoshop users can't use GIMP because it's too hard. That's not at all what's wrong with GIMP. If you're a Photoshop user it's the fact that GIMP is incapable of doing many of even the basic things Photoshop does that its detractors criticize it for.

      People are not at all sold on Photoshop being the be-all-end-all and high end graphic designers and visual effects artists are far from loyal to Adobe. The problem with Gimp is Gimp. And Gimp just doesn't fit in well as doing anything particularly well.

    2. Re:GIMP vs. Ps by I+Mean,+What · · Score: 1

      Also, Photoshop was, and still is, ridiculously intuitive and obvious how to use. Put an inexperienced person in front of Photoshop and then Eclipse (or NetBeans, or insert your favorite IDE here) and see what the person learns to use first. Hell, put them in front of Photoshop and then Flash. Photoshop is easy. Comedy is hard. Programming is impossible (but we still try).

    3. Re:GIMP vs. Ps by Michael_gr · · Score: 1

      A while ago the Gimp team decided to work on a product vision that will define what Gimp is supposed to be and what its target audience was. They decided that Gimp was meant to be a high end tool used by pros. I believe it was the wrong decision - but this was their decision to make, and having made it, they put Gimp in direct comparison with the only other high end Graphics manipulation tool out there, namely Photoshop.

    4. Re:GIMP vs. Ps by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      What programmer or photoshop person even READS anymore?

      I mean really?

      Anything I wanna know how to do in Gimp or Photoshop I can most likely just google it.

      In fact, the author of this book probably google'd everything that is in it. So its plagiarism.

      So when you google something, the information just flows magically from your computer into your brain without any of that pesky reading nonsense?

      You are so cool, you're like Neon in the Matrix with those glowy 0s and 1s flowing through his fingertips.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  5. Worst title ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    And after that last GIMP 2.7 BDSM image, this whole thing is a massive facepalm.

  6. From the Gimp to Lightroom by Ichijo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I used to use the Gimp, because it was free. I mainly used it for restoring old photos and for some postprocessing on my own digital photos. But then I discovered Lightroom. In the Gimp, fixing the white balance is a manual process using curves, but in Lightroom, you just point at a neutral color in the photo and it's all done for you.

    In the Gimp, applying a graduated neutral density filter involves working with layers, but in Lightroom, you just click and drag to create two regions, then set the exposure individually for each.

    Lightroom's cataloging and batch features make it easy to work with large numbers of images.

    I still occasionally use the Gimp for things I can't do in Lightroom (most recently, to blur out a license plate using a mosaic effect), but for most of what I do, Lightroom is much easier and faster.

    --
    Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    1. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      And how much did Lightroom cost? Most Adobe products are outrageously expensive

    2. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's $120, so that makes it unaffordable for the slashdot demographic of basement-dwelling autists and unemployed IT washouts. However if you can afford a DSLR that's not that bad.

    3. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And how much did Lightroom cost? Most Adobe products are outrageously expensive

      About $150 if you don't get any discounts.

      The only reason why I don't buy it for that price is that I already bought a full Photoshop CS5. (Not seen any reason to upgrade to CS6)

    4. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It starts at 80 for an upgrade or retails on its own for 150

    5. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by QuasiSteve · · Score: 2

      In the Gimp, fixing the white balance is a manual process using curves, but in Lightroom, you just point at a neutral color in the photo and it's all done for you.

      Colors, Levels..., Pick gray point. Same sort of thing. The only problem is that it expects this to be the 50% grey point, so you may still have to shift things around a little afterward. I agree that this is something The GIMP could do better (there's scripts that may be of interest there.
      Another problem is that most people don't look beyond the 'automatic white balance' option in The GIMP.. which is truly awful and shouldn't even be there.

      I won't contest the graduated neutral density filter because you're right - that's more involved in The GIMP. Again, something that could probably be fixed with a simple script or just accepting that it takes a bit more work but ultimately offers more flexibility.

      These are two basic photo post-processing tasks that Lightroom is better at, true. Then again, Lightroom is better at that than Photoshop, too. You then go on to talk about the cataloging and batch features (GIMP can do batch, but let's not get into that), which similarly are not generally features of a photo editing tool but rather something like, say, Picasa (I'm sure there's a FLOSS 'equivalent').

      Basically, The GIMP is not the tool for the job, and I'm glad you have realized that. Perhaps it can become that tool given a few tweaks, but I'm not sure that's its goal.

      What you might be looking for - and I honestly wouldn't know for sure as I have only used darktable in a limited fashion and your use cases may not be at all similar to mine - are tools like DigiKam, DarkTable and RawTherapee.
      http://www.darktable.org/
      http://www.digikam.org/
      http://rawtherapee.com/
      There's probably others, these are the ones I'm aware of as they deal with RAW files - which The GIMP can't handle those quite as well as anybody would like.

      That said, since you already splurged for Lightroom - or hoisted a flag - you might as well keep using that. It's an excellent piece of software. ( Still, can't hurt to at least try the alternatives. )

    6. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to use the Gimp, because it was free. I mainly used it for restoring old photos and for some postprocessing on my own digital photos. But then I discovered Lightroom. In the Gimp, fixing the white balance is a manual process using curves, but in Lightroom, you just point at a neutral color in the photo and it's all done for you.

      In the Gimp, applying a graduated neutral density filter involves working with layers, but in Lightroom, you just click and drag to create two regions, then set the exposure individually for each.

      Lightroom's cataloging and batch features make it easy to work with large numbers of images.

      I still occasionally use the Gimp for things I can't do in Lightroom (most recently, to blur out a license plate using a mosaic effect), but for most of what I do, Lightroom is much easier and faster.

      Linux is better than Notepad. Not relevant though. Tried Darktable?

    7. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by mug+funky · · Score: 1

      +1 darktable.

      very active development, very sophisticated tools, a UI that is familiar to lightroom users, and new builds have lightroom import (tags, some filters, crop/rotate, exposure. not perfect but good enough to aid migration). it's database driven so you can search by tag or rating or colour, or even image similarity.

      my only gripe is that it relies too heavily on luma-only processing and so a lot of contrast adjustments can look bleached in the highlights and shadows. i really wish for an RGB/Lab toggle switch or similar. this can be worked around with some twiddling.

    8. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by zakkie · · Score: 1

      You then go on to talk about the cataloging and batch features (GIMP can do batch, but let's not get into that), which similarly are not generally features of a photo editing tool but rather something like, say, Picasa (I'm sure there's a FLOSS 'equivalent').

      Geeqie is quite a fabulous image manager, for want of a better word. More brilliant than you could imagine, IMHO.

    9. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to use the Gimp, because it was free. I mainly used it for restoring old photos and for some postprocessing on my own digital photos. But then I discovered Lightroom. In the Gimp, fixing the white balance is a manual process using curves, but in Lightroom, you just point at a neutral color in the photo and it's all done for you.

      Use levels instead. It has the dropper. Once you're happy, convert to curves if you wish before applying the adjustment.

      In the Gimp, applying a graduated neutral density filter involves working with layers, but in Lightroom, you just click and drag to create two regions, then set the exposure individually for each.

      Just different ways to do the same thing....hardly a major problem.

      Lightroom's cataloging and batch features make it easy to work with large numbers of images.

      Lightroom's catalog quickly becomes unmanagable in size. I have literally hundreds of thousands of images and it's unusable UNLESS I create a new library per folder. Otherwise I was getting so many small files created in my Lightroom library that it took hours to copy or delete them. Unacceptable. I also caught Lightroom modifying EXIF when I'd set it to use sidecars (on an earlier version). I no longer use it for cataloging. I don't trust it at all.

      I still occasionally use the Gimp for things I can't do in Lightroom (most recently, to blur out a license plate using a mosaic effect), but for most of what I do, Lightroom is much easier and faster.

      GIMP is a pixel editor. Lightroom is not. You can't do advanced cloning etc. as easily. Basically you found a better tool for what you're trying to do.

    10. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      You shouldn't be adjusting white balance in Gimp or lightroom anyway (nor photoshop for that matter). White balance is a job for your RAW editor.
      And if you aren't starting photo-edits in RAW mode, then you're doing yourself such a massive disservice that no program on the market will be able to replace what you lost before you even started.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    11. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      While I agree with your comment's latter part, I wonder if you caught what you wrote in the first part after posting - considering that Lightroom is a RAW processing app (among other).

    12. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Linux is better than Notepad

      If you're trying to start a flamewar here, you're doing it all wrong.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    13. Re:From the Gimp to Lightroom by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      In the Gimp, applying a graduated neutral density filter involves working with layers, but in Lightroom, you just click and drag to create two regions, then set the exposure individually for each.

      The blend tool has 23 modes including dodge and burn, 11 shapes (linear, radial, etc), continuously variable opacity and offset. I've found that most of what I need to do can be accomplished without layers.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  7. Does it finally work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I tried for several years to run GIMP on Windows and it always abnormally terminated.

  8. Yet detractors criticize it as being complicated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An image compositing application cannot be taken seriously by the industry without proper CMYK support. I don't think the problem most people have with it is being complicated, it's the aggravating interface, lack of features and second rate filters.

  9. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by Billly+Gates · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I used to be a Gimp basher on here when I had PS and Dreamweaver installed via a pirated copy. I used to be agaisn't piracy but after not working for awhile I used it to justify it. I decided to kick the habbit after going through contstant hacks and other potentially trojaned KMS servers.

    Yeah PS is better, but those who say so pirate it 80% of the time! That is not really fair. If you had to actually pay $700 for it would it be worth your value then for its features?

    Now since my computer is pirated free and I have my integrity back I have to say no.

    In that economical sense NO, for 90% of users. Unless you are a professional marketer or photographer who makes thousands of dollars from it I have to say the GIMP is better. I do like the UI for paint.net better.

    It is a shame PaintShop Pro is gone or rather gimped (no pun intended) after Corel bought it. That $79 program could do much photo editing plus create cool textures for websites. Corel got rid of the secondary feature so I can spend more money buying other crappy products they make to duplicate its lost functionality.

    Value for dollar you can't beat the Gimp. The only difference is if you work for an advertising agency and get paid serious bucks for production material does PS provide better value.

  10. I also recommend by buanzo · · Score: 1

    This Book: GIMP 2.6 Cookbook. More to the point, it has interesting and useful artistic advice http://www.amazon.com/GIMP-cookbook-Juan-Manuel-Ferreyra/dp/1849512027 of course the gimp part is great. it shouldve been color printed though

    --
    Buanzo Consulting - 15 Years of GNU/Linux experience, for you.
  11. Re:Yet detractors criticize it as being complicate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CMYK support is only needed if you send things to the press.

  12. Photoshop by WhackAttack · · Score: 1

    Don't know about you guys but Photoshop CS2 is free from Adobe.

  13. Detractors... by PrimeNumber · · Score: 1

    "criticize it as having an idiotic interface" would be a more realistic comment.

    That and it's branding sucks, which is unfortunate. The person that chose the name "GIMP" should be hung drawn and quartered.

    Yes we know what it stands for, but 99% of the new user base that could have used it doesn't. Why? Because he/she read the name first and passed on it, and is now using another image app. If the app can't take itself seriously, why would the user?

    1. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get real, nobody cares about a name except whiny little cry babies!

    2. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "criticize it as having an idiotic interface" would be a more realistic comment.

      That and it's branding sucks, which is unfortunate. The person that chose the name "GIMP" should be hung drawn and quartered.

      Yes we know what it stands for, but 99% of the new user base that could have used it doesn't. Why? Because he/she read the name first and passed on it, and is now using another image app. If the app can't take itself seriously, why would the user?

      I remember trying to get GIMP onto the school computers where i worked years ago to replace a bloated expensive equivalent, the name stopped it happening (in the uk)

    3. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who gives a fuck. It works great. You are a fucking idiot.

    4. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a fine point.

      I'm a fan myself, it's a decent, powerful program. My needs are modest (photography and 3DCG) but I've yet to see anyone actually achieve anything in these fields I couldn't replicate in GIMP (sometimes used in tandem with Inkscape or Xara), though admittedly probably with more work.

      But the name really does stop it being taken seriously. If I'm asked for an informed software recommendation by a non-technie and I mention GIMP, I know exactly which way the conversation will go. I end up having to justify it before I even say its name, which just makes it feel like a poor argument.

    5. Re:Detractors... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I remember trying to get GIMP onto the school computers where i worked years ago to replace a bloated expensive equivalent, the name stopped it happening (in the uk)

      Why? What's wrong with the name?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    6. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a retard if you don't think branding matters about this sort of thing.

      Perfect Open Source Software name though: Pick a word that means at least two other things in the same language. Bonus points if one or more of them is offensive.

    7. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll broaden it slightly from the name.

      The first problem is the goofy branding. Its difficult to take seriously if you haven't used it.

      The second is the answer to your question. Gimp is a bondage(as in sex, not glue) term.

    8. Re:Detractors... by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      I remember trying to get GIMP onto the school computers where i worked years ago to replace a bloated expensive equivalent, the name stopped it happening (in the uk)

      Or maybe it's because you're a distributed version control system.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    9. Re:Detractors... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Gimp is a bondage(as in sex, not glue) term.

      Hmm...new one on me, but then I guess I've not known anyone that was into sex bondage.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    10. Re:Detractors... by QuasiSteve · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's nothing wrong with the name, per se. It just has unfortunate connotations.

      Let's say that after OpenOffice.org had to be split off, rather than than the already baffling 'LibreOffice', they had gone with Phree Open Office Program.

      Instead of Blender, it could have been Free Animation/Rendering Toolchain.

      Instead of Linux it could have been Free UNIX Command Kit.

      And really, nothing would have been wrong with those names per se. Until you try explaining to somebody that you're using FART and The GIMP to make some graphics for your POOP Impress presentation on your FUCK machine. That's when you're treated to raised eyebrows, at the least.

      That, in part, is why Film GIMP was quickly renamed to CinePaint; a paint app used primarily in the film industry, which tends to be pretty Linux-heavy as it is and is filled with geeks who would 'understand' GIMP just fine.
      http://www.cinepaint.org/more/press/cinepaint.pr.2003.3.1.html
      ( The other part being that it started to be less and less GIMP-based and more cobbled together from various open source applications, so keeping 'GIMP' in there just stopped making sense anyway. But they still decided on something that "will present a more professional name". )

      The GIMP developers, however, brush off criticism with the FAQ entry: "GIMP is comfortable with its name and thinks that you should apologise for your rudeness".

      That said, sources are available. It would be exceedingly trivial - short of evil bits of code in the source - to search&replace all of the 'GIMP' strings used for presentation and complying with the remainder of the licenses and publish an alternative build. I don't think anybody does. So as much as people like to complain about the name, it seems it's not enough for an issue for people to do something about it. There's bigger dragons to slay in The GIMP. Single window mode was a big one. GEGL getting fully implemented is another. User friendliness of various tools is next. ( imho they made a misstep with the new 'save as' behavior, but that's more of a personal preference. )

    11. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've never seen Reservoir Dogs?

    12. Re:Detractors... by Sir+or+Madman · · Score: 2

      "GIMP is comfortable with its name and thinks that you should apologise for your rudeness"

      Rudeness? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Good for them if they're comfortable with their sexuality, but "gimp" is derogatory slang for a disabled person. These people need to grow up if they want to be taken seriously. Might as well have named it Cripple.

      Even a casual observer such as myself can fix this shit:

      1. Fire the idiot who wrote the above quote
      2. Fix the more glaring UI issues and make single window mode the default
      3. RENAME the product
      4. RENAME it AGAIN because these people are idiots
      5. Release it

      People who care about FOSS won't care that it's been renamed and will still be able to find it and won't be confused at all. And everybody else will have a decent free alternative to PS with a name that was not thought up by a grade-school delinquent.

      (Or just sit there and whine about how the market doesn't "get" open source.)

    13. Re:Detractors... by Beetle+B. · · Score: 1

      Good for them if they're comfortable with their sexuality, but "gimp" is derogatory slang for a disabled person.

      And the more people use GIMP, the less derogatory the word will appear.

      It's almost as if people here want to preserve a biogted, derogatory word.

      --
      Beetle B.
    14. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are alternative builds but bizarrely GIMPshop chooses not to differentiate with a more easily marketed name.

    15. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine a project that says "if you don't like the name then fork"

      Most projects are in need of developers, not actively turning them away.

      Projects like Firefox have gone through so many name changes already they make it so easy to change name that a non-programmer could rename it and have their own custom version. Times changes, projects change, better to adapt to user needs and get them to help with common goals than to turn them away. This is just one of the reasons the GIMP team has such a terrible reputation. There are few other projects (emacs perhaps) that would so deliberately push developers away.

    16. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "gimp" is derogatory slang for a disabled person.

      That's right! And "tiny" is a derogatory word for fat people!

      I'm very angry at Tinymail, and TinyFugue, and TinyIRC, and TinyMUX, and TinyScheme, and TinyWM. Why do Open Source people have to pick such insulting names?

      /sarcasm

    17. Re:Detractors... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >1. Fire the idiot who wrote the above quote

      You can't fire a volunteer. This is free software dude, not corporate cog-in-a-wheel crap. Nobody gets fired, if you believe the quote is that bad, submit a better one.
      Nobody is getting paid by you, nobody is subjected to market forces. This is about doing the best possible job, not maximizing profit - and the counter-point is that customers are NOT in fact always right, which is not a problem because unlike with the corporations you don't just have your wallet as a negotiation tool (against somebody who could lose all the money you ever made and not notice) - you can get involved, and help to make it better.
      You missing something in GIMP - grab the code and submit a patch. They don't want your patch ? Ship your own build, while your are it you can then change the name to something you don't find offensive.

      Every word in every language is offensive to somebody, somewhere. I must admit I agree with the Gimp developers there- trying to not offend anybody is perhaps the greatest and must futile waste of time imaginable.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    18. Re:Detractors... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I guess my thing was...I'd never heard of the word 'gimp' having any negative connotations....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    19. Re:Detractors... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Rudeness? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Good for them if they're comfortable with their sexuality, but "gimp" is derogatory slang for a disabled person. These people need to grow up if they want to be taken seriously. Might as well have named it Cripple.

      Funny, I'd never heard of the word gimp in that light...maybe it is a regional slang term?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    20. Re:Detractors... by Sir+or+Madman · · Score: 1

      Every word in every language is offensive to somebody, somewhere. I must admit I agree with the Gimp developers there- trying to not offend anybody is perhaps the greatest and must futile waste of time imaginable.

      Um, yeah. Gimp is pretty offensive. The people at Mozilla managed to give their main product an inoffensive name. So did just about everyone else. Your argument amounts to not bothering to even make an attempt to be mature because some crackpot somewhere might find words like "to" and "the" offensive.

      Heck, drop the G and you have Imp. That word may still offend some, but at least it does not target a marginalized group. That took me about 10 seconds. Oh what a futile waste!

      The developers can choose to be taken seriously and improve the image of FOSS. They choose instead to try to justify their poor decisions of the past. Christ, look at "optional" single window mode. Would it kill them to cater just a little to Windows users and make single window mode the default on Windows installs? Well clearly they're too proud and know better than us plebs! Just like how they decide that the public is wrong for finding their name offensive. They are poster children for the arrogance that plagues open source.

    21. Re:Detractors... by Sir+or+Madman · · Score: 1

      Regional? Hardly.

      LMGTFY:

      define:gimp

      2. offensive. A physically handicapped or lame person.

    22. Re:Detractors... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Gimp is a bondage(as in sex, not glue) term.

      Hmm...new one on me, but then I guess I've not known anyone that was into sex bondage.

      You are aware that there's an invention called the movies, and on this invention they show films like Pulp Fiction, right?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    23. Re:Detractors... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      And "tiny" is a derogatory word for fat people!

      No it's not.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    24. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WHOOOOSH!

      That's the whole point, dude. A gimp is a dressmaker's tool, or in a related meaning, something beautiful and well-formed. It became a nickname for the crippled kid back around the 30's, when the fat kid was "tiny," and the tall kid was "shorty."
        (I have no idea how it became anything to do with sex.)

    25. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      . It would be exceedingly trivial - short of evil bits of code in the source - to search&replace all of the 'GIMP' strings used for presentation and complying with the remainder of the licenses and publish an alternative build.

      I am going to do just that, my version is going to be known as Kool Interactive Kinetic Editor.

    26. Re:Detractors... by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      but "gimp" is derogatory slang for a disabled person

      First, there are other meanings of the word "gimp", some of which are complimentary.

      Second, it is simply a lie to say that "gimp" is derogatory. David Niven, one of the most noble actors ever, referred to himself in a film role as having a "gimpy leg." That you or anyone else considers "gimp" derogatory is symptomatic of the liberal tendency to believe that everyone is the same and that pointing out differences is evil. Grow up.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    27. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, there are other meanings of the word "gimp", some of which are complimentary.

      O RLY?

      Second, it is simply a lie to say that "gimp" is derogatory. David Niven, one of the most noble actors ever, referred to himself in a film role as having a "gimpy leg." That you or anyone else considers "gimp" derogatory is symptomatic of the liberal tendency to believe that everyone is the same and that pointing out differences is evil. Grow up.

      Right. An actor (oh, sorry, a noble actor) once used an offensive word to describe a film role, therefore said word is not in fact derogatory. And libruls are poopyheads. Got it. That clears that up, then. You have demonstrated magnificent insight, sir!

      That you or anyone else considers "David Niven said it!!!" as an adequate excuse is symptomatic of willful conservative blindness, wherein you smugly decide from a safe cocoon of privilege that the targets of offensive and derogatory language are just whiners who should suck it up.

    28. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WHOOOOSH!

      That's the whole point, dude. A gimp is a dressmaker's tool, or in a related meaning, something beautiful and well-formed. It became a nickname for the crippled kid back around the 30's, when the fat kid was "tiny," and the tall kid was "shorty."

      Assuming you're right about 1930s usages, what's that got to do with the sense in which these words are used today? At one time, the word "gay" was a synonym for "joyful" or "happy" with no other connotations. Then it was successfully coopted by the people we now refer to as "gays". They wanted a happier, non-derogatory name for themselves to replace the insulting terms imposed upon them by mainstream society. And in the past few decades, bigots have turned that back on homosexuals by using "gay" as an epithet for all kinds of bad things.

      So far as I can tell, you were trying to show that people saying "gimp" is offensive are up in arms about nothing, because it used to not be offensive. Sorry, the world doesn't work that way.

      (I have no idea how it became anything to do with sex.)

      That sense of the word is a pop culture reference to the Quentin Tarantino movie "Pulp Fiction". It has a famous series of scenes involving, among other characters, a BDSM slave in head-to-toe leather-and-latex bondage gear who is referred to only as "the Gimp".

      Also, I'm pretty sure the authors of the GNU Image Manipulation Program invented that backronym as a "funny" reference to Pulp Fiction's "the Gimp". So: juvenile reference to BDSM via Pulp Fiction, or careless use of a slur against the disabled. Take your pick. (And of course these days, there's no way carelessness can be used as an excuse, given how long the authors of The GIMP have been made aware of the word's use as a slur.)

    29. Re:Detractors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you seem to be saying is that words change meanings, and I shouldn't point out the older meanings to people in hopes of encouraging change, because once they've changed the first time, they'll stay that way forever, unless they change back, which isn't possible except when it happens. Or something.

        What?

  14. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by Desler · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you had to actually pay $700 for it would it be worth your value then for its features?

    No, that's why they made Photoshop Elements that you can get for around $70 on Amazon for version 11.

  15. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I agree. I've always found PS annoyingly automated. A lot of the 'fancy' stuff I've seen photographers tout are single-click actions. I'd much rather do things myself and gain fine control.

    I think it's similar to the Mac/PC debate you hear from designers/artists. They all want Macs, but when you actually dig down into their arguments that's mainly because all their peers have Macs. There's nothing that a high-end PC-based setup couldn't do just as well, but they want the Mac factor - just like the Adobe factor.

  16. Wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Branding matters. I hate to break it to ya, but the world doesn't run on meritocracy alone.

    Just look at Coca Cola.

  17. Re:Yet detractors criticize it as being complicate by Phoenix+Rising · · Score: 0

    Which industry?

    I can't remember the last time I needed to use CMYK for my fine art photography. Heck, most of the photo magazines don't even want CMYK any more.

    And when I go to develop my website graphics? No CMYK in sight there either.

    How about printing business cards, brochures or fliers on a full-color printer? Only if the shop requires it for some bizarre reason - color profiles have pretty much removed the need for CMYK there.

    So for some small definition of the word "industry" perhaps CMYK is still useful; for the rest of us, "industry" is getting along just fine without CMYK separations.

    --
    Let us live so that when we come to die, even the undertaker will be sorry -- Mark Twain
  18. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've never heard a graphic artist praise GIMP over Photoshop, ever.

    It's like comparing apples and bowling balls.

  19. Re:Perfect Timing by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Funny

    Valentine's day is next week and my sex slave would love the book of gimps!

    The section on masks is on page 119.

  20. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nor have I, and that's exactly my point. Those in the profession care too much about having the most trendy software to value GIMP for what it can do.

  21. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by Desler · · Score: 1

    Photoshop is "trendy"? Since when?

  22. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, I paid about $300 for PS, and it was worth every penny. I'm 4x faster (or more) with it. I don't even work for an advertising agency! I do make some bucks, but not serious bucks.

    It depends on what you're doing as well. Try making some textures for 3d assets in GIMP vs just painting in it or retouching photos and you'll see what I mean.

  23. Even Shakespeare said it: "whats in a name?" by CaptnCrud · · Score: 1

    Seriously though, the name has always gotten chuckles and odd looks to the non geek when mentioned. I remember once mentioning "shebang" whilst describing something to a coworker. Just as I mentioned it a women non-geek coworker passed by and gave me a look like "you perv". I have no idea who comes up with these names, but I say keep them coming. : p

    1. Re:Even Shakespeare said it: "whats in a name?" by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Ok..you got me on this one.

      What is shebang have to do with something bad?

      I've heard the expression "the whole shebang.." for all my life and never thought anything was wrong with that...??

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Even Shakespeare said it: "whats in a name?" by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I imagine your average geek would pronounce it "she bang" for comic effect.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  24. Re:Yet detractors criticize it as being complicate by mark-t · · Score: 1

    Which, like, *NEVER* happens, right?

  25. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by JDG1980 · · Score: 1

    Yeah PS is better, but those who say so pirate it 80% of the time! That is not really fair. If you had to actually pay $700 for it would it be worth your value then for its features?

    Probably not, but when you can get Photoshop Elements for $99 (sometimes lower on sale) or Photoshop CS2 for free from Adobe's website, GIMP looks a lot less attractive.

  26. You can thank "Pulp Fiction" for coining it. by CaptnCrud · · Score: 1

    "Bring out the gimp"

    1. Re:You can thank "Pulp Fiction" for coining it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pulp Fiction (1994)
      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110912/

      GNU Image Manipulation Program (1996)
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP

      I defy you to find Spencer Kimball, Peter Mattis and have them tell us the name was not a joke based on Pulp Fiction.

      The "a patchy" (Apache) web server might have a been a jokey name at first but it has dignity associated with it. GIMP has no such advantage, it would be far easier to get a gay rights organization to champion a program called "Queer" than it would be to get a disability group to a champion a program called GIMP, not to mention the offensive things that have been said about Africans in the defense of what is a silly name.

  27. Improvements of version 2.8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Surely you jest. The save/export native file format crazyness is just like Apple's "oh no, don't save as, use history for versioning and autosaving!" excellent idea. I would gladly beat the guy who designed that for the GIMP. It makes it practically unusable... if it weren't for the other feature: unstable mac version! Yay, let's replace a solid rock photoshop with a crash-at-every-random-chance GIMP which precisely fucks up saving!

    Good thing 2.6 still works for any real work. If it ever stops I'll go and compile it myself if needed.

  28. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I take it then your time is free?

  29. lived up to its name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the GIMP has lived up to its name.

  30. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by jnork · · Score: 1
    --
    Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
  31. photoshop can export to html for web dev by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I used to have to crank out html templates with images super quick, nothing beat photoshop's ability to splice an image and export to html. It made web design FAST. Instead of having to switch between two apps I could let photoshop make all the html for me. It was a little bloated at times and i did spend time cleaning up the html for final use but when having to show progress to the boss it was the perfect tool. If gimp can reach the point of seamless integration for web development then i expect it's use will explode.

  32. incompetent teacher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So a teacher isn't able to deal with disruptive element in her classroom.

    1. Re:incompetent teacher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm no teacher, but I think it would be easier to control a kid than a grown adult and likely retiree who has made up their mind to be offended. Besides, on the softer subjects like art and music I don't remember their being much of any disruptions because it was more exploration based. So maybe she wasn't used to it.

  33. Re:Perfect Timing by xaxa · · Score: 5, Informative

    Valentine's day is next week and my sex slave would love the book of gimps!

    The section on masks is on page 119.

    And the Cage Transform is explained in the advanced user appendix. Beginners should stick to crops, and everyone should be familiar with the Healing Tool before starting.

    Unconventionally, the safe work is "control-zed".

  34. Re:Perfect Timing by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

    Are you hoping to lay 'er?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  35. Gahnew by Mike+Frett · · Score: 2

    I use GIMP 2.8 , single-window. I've used Photoshop before also, and GIMP can most definitely be compared to Photoshop. There is one thing I dislike about GIMP, 'Save As'. Save As in GIMP saves the file in some strange format and doesn't allow me to actually 'Save As'. If I want to Save a Photo as a .jpeg, then I need to click 'Export'; I hate that.

    The most important thing is what I use it for, Photo editing/Creation etc, and it suits my needs well. I don't care if Adobe has a version of Photoshop for $70, $70 is too much for what I want out of an Editor of this sort. Not that I could use Photoshop anyway because I use Linux, even though CS2 works OK in Wine, which I dislike.

    1. Re:Gahnew by Michael_gr · · Score: 1

      When people say that Gimp can be compared to Photoshop, it's like saying your Toyota Yaris compares with a Bugatti Veyron - when all you do is drive to the store around the corner. Photoshop is an amazing tools with multiple pro-level features that Gimp can only dream about having at some far point in the future. Heck, Gimp doesn't even have some rather important features that Photoshop had 12 years ago. By the way, to a Photoshop user, the interface is intuitive and simple and similar enough to Photoshop that it takes very little time to figure out that so many features are completely lacking. I can even go as far as saying that in a couple of tools, it surpasses Photoshop in usability. But only a couple.

    2. Re:Gahnew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the save as / export thing is only sofar been in 2.8, and its the main reason I still use 2.6 ... its so fucking annoying and breaks consistency with every gui based program EVER

    3. Re:Gahnew by vivian · · Score: 1

      Bad analogy - there is almost no solution where the Bugatti is the right vehicle for the job.

      When driving anywhere except for a racetrack, the Bugatti is massively over engineered, wasteful of fuel and basically an exercise in excess.
      Even driving around a racetrack, it's not the best choice, because if your objective is to go as fast as possible around a circuit, you'd be better off with a formula 1 car.
      The only thing the Bugatti is really good for, is showing how rich you are - and if you have managed to accumulate enough wealth to afford one, yet still have such crushing insecurities, your money would perhaps be better spent with a psychiatrist.

      Photoshop is at least practical and useful for what it does - but like the Bugatti, is overkill for most users. I do think the GIMP's name holds it back - and I hate how the select modes work. I do wish these two areas were improved, because other than that, it does nearly everything I need.

    4. Re:Gahnew by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      2.8 is a major improvement over <2.8. One great thing is export. From 2.8 you work/save on Gimp xcf files, always. Then you export to the desired format, jpg, png, gif... Much better and less ambiguous like that.

      --
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    5. Re:Gahnew by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      By default, SAVE should always be the same format as the original file. If I start with "gimp photo.jpg" then SAVE should write to the file "photo.jpg". "EXPORT" or "SAVE AS" should be used for everything else, and I shouldn't have to use a different menu item for different filetypes.

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  36. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by cristiroma · · Score: 1

    Not quite free: The serial numbers below should only be used by customers who legitimately purchased CS2 or Acrobat 7 and need to maintain their current use of these products

  37. in that case, command line. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd love you to teach our secretary and the rest of the sales team the benefits of command-line interface. From email, to web-browsing, to input data to our CRM.

    Bonus point if you can teach them to use it without a mouse. I hate paying for those pesky things.

  38. Re:Yet detractors criticize it as being complicate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work in book publishing, and our printers expect things in CMYK.

  39. There's a new version of GIMP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wouldn't know anything about that, since I'm on LTS Ubuntu. Why would you push a major upgrade for an important piece of software to the LTS repository? Fuck those guys. Haha, I bet they'll be super-happy to have to install GIMP from a shady third-party repository. LTS guys love doing stuff like that; that's why they stick with LTS.

  40. Re:GIMP vs. Ps (If PS is free!) by jnork · · Score: 1

    "Should." Doesn't prohibit other use from what I can see.

    OTOH, realistically speaking, it's an old version that they don't really want to keep supporting, and from what I understand, doesn't work on Windows past XP.

    --
    Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
  41. CMYK is still used. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you're serious about color reproduction on magazines, packaging, and corporate brochures with trademarked colors (i.e. Coca Cola #pantone_red), then you will convert it to CMYK to ensure things don't get lost in translation. True, magazines will mainly accept jpg, but if you're anal about colors, you can talk to the art director about color fidelity and they'll accept images with CMYK profile - but only if you're willing to do some color processing for free in order to fit the layout's colors, and more importantly their schedule. Digital techs for commercial photographers proof their work in CMYK if they know it'll be printed, and adjust accordingly and hand over a custom profile for the print dept. to use.

    Color fidelity doesn't stop at just getting a colorimeter for your monitor. But then again, it depends on your field. CMYK is very much alive. Just go to the cereal aisle and look at the packaging. Or any industry which takes their time and money to trademark their branding. I know fashion and some garments such as a basic towel from Bath Bed & Beyond will want the color on the towel from the catalog to *exactly* match the real towel's color.

    The local printing business just assume you won't care about the color shift or that you'll probably have a greater tolerance. Your jpg will still be converted to CMYK because large scale printers still use them (plus spot colors like Pantone). If you want professional quality with high fidelity, you'll convert your file to CMYK yourself and do color adjustments under this workspace to ensure no sudden shifts or replacements for out-of-gamut colors, and again, hand over your profile.

    Hell, go visit a professional graphic designer. I bet he has a Pantone color swatch. Guess what's written on them? CMYK approximate colors. He won't care about it when he shows the swatch or give the code to the printer, but a printer worth his/ her salt will follow the recipe printed on the swatch to the tee and ensure the printed color will match the swatch.

    Your "industry" is just a different one with higher tolerances. It's not better or worse. There are still food and architecture photographers using large format cameras with tilt & shift controls on the lens & back, but there are those who are just fine with a 35mm with a very limited tilt& shift on the lens only and the clients are still fine with them. One will command a $10k gross fee and the other $2k. Guess which is what. Or heck, there's the photographer who uses a lens baby on a Canon rebel - he'll probably charge $100 or worse, work for free for a portfolio piece. Honestly, it depends on the client and their budget. Just because you don't care or use CMYK, doesn't mean others don't, but it's possible that those who care about CMYK will be marginalized if the client's audience doesn't care. But personally, if I can justify my fees with just a lens baby I'd love to do it. Much less work in post too, if I don't have to worry about color correction/ compensation.

    On the other hand, I appreciate what GIMP is doing. Good luck on their efforts. I see it working for the back-end coders for a web design firm, but not in the other industries where files are widely shared across different departments and techs.

  42. AC again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    One last thing....when you submit your photos to a photo printer like ones at the corner drugstore, they project your jpg image on a photo sensitive paper which then gets run into a chemical bath. It takes about 7 minutes to go through the developer, bleach/ fix, and wash. Then another 2 minutes to dry. This is just for a single photo, but the photo can be up to 30x36, but most decent retail photo printers only go up to 16x20 and cut to size or queue your single 6x4 with other jobs so everything is printed on a single large sheet and then cut down to several 6x4.

    Printing press - whether it's for magazines, brochures, or packaging - they need to fulfill several hundred to thousands of copies as fast as possible. They rely on CMYK and metal plates because it's fast and durable for these long runs. 7 minutes for only 1 image? That's a lifetime for those guys. Again, when you submit your jpg, they still convert it to CMYK themselves. Unless you speak out about color fidelity, these guys will just assume you don't care and will do their best to give you a pleasing and realistic result.

  43. Paying Adobe to get Photoshop beat GIMP forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No Investment, no gain.

    $6000 to GIMP then GIMP get 1 feature currently lacking. http://www.freedomsponsors.org/core/issue/78/add-other-samplers-that-properly-reduce-downsample-and-warp-images

    Move these $6000 to Photoshop then GIMP lose user and developer delay the progress.

    you think 3~4 part-time developers of GIMP could do better job than a team of 20+ full-time developers hired by Adobe?

    => People paying Adobe to get GIMP worse than Photoshop and it is always the point.

    Business won.

  44. Layer effects (layer styles) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are in photoshop 5, missing from gimp :(

  45. Re:definitions by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >I agree Gimp sucks

    It's the layers. They are what makes GIMP suck.

    An average user, expects that when they select a rectangle, plant the mouse in the middle and drag it, the contents move. This happens in photoshop. It sometimes happens in GIMP, but usually not. This is something to do with layers, it is massively annoying and it is the barrier to entry that leaves most people saying GIMP sucks.

    If I encounter this non functionality, I can usually drill through some menus and find something to 'merge layers' so they behave like the bitmap they are supposed to behave like. But most people don't manage to do that and give up.

    It is inexcusable that when you import a jpeg picture it comes in as more than one layer and GIMPs tools then interact with a different invisible layer, frustrating the user trying to edit the image.

    That is why GIMP sucks. If they fixed the layer interface, GIMP would not suck. I'd do it myself, but I'm too busy designing chips to fork GIMP and fix it.'
     

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    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  46. Re:Yet detractors criticize it as being complicate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The tree murdering industry, the forest destruction industry and the landfill industry, obviously.

  47. I F*ing hate Gimp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have REALLY REALLY wanted to like Gimp. I've tried to learn it three separate times. Each time it had a different UI. I don't know who the tards are doing the UI design on it, but they are either very inexperienced in UI design, don't care about UI design, or are schizophrenic.

    Graphic design tools have existed since the early 80s. Many things about the UI for a graphic design tool are settled, and have been settled for decades. For some unknown reason, the crew working on Gimp have decided they are above all that, and by God they'll do whatever the hell they damn well please. Well, sorry, I don't have time to learn your cryptographically influenced UI that you FLIPPING KEEP CHANGING.

    People who call Gimp a huge Open Source success story are kidding themselves. I (and several other graphic designer friends I know -- we've talked about it at length) would rather use pixlr.com than Gimp. Someone needs to fork Gimp, put on a UI that resembles EVERY GRAPHIC DESIGN PRODUCT SINCE 1984, and kill off the parent monstrosity. There'd be a tsunami of new users.

  48. Re:My experience with the GIMP - audio sub-thread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to the Ardour site, there's support for VST plugins.

  49. at 3.4 lbs, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they must be assuming the buyer has a coffee table

  50. Only three requirements for GIMP by MotorMachineMercenar · · Score: 1

    As a "serious" amateur photographer I check out GIMP every year or so for three things:
    - 16-bit image processing (yes, I know 8-bit is good enough for 99.9% of cases, but that's not good enough for me)
    - proper and intuitive color management
    - color-managed printing

    Until all three are implemented properly, I can't and won't move from PS.16-bit has been promised for literally years, but last time I checked all three above were missing. Is it still the case?

    --
    "We have an A-Bomb...what more do you want, mermaids?" --I.I. Rabi, speaking in defense of Robert Oppenheimer
  51. Re: definitions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You just nailed my three attempts at using GIMP - I did work through it with some difficulty but then did not go back for a while until I needed a higher level of function than the OSX picture editor would give me ... By which time I had forgotten and had to start again ... True photoshop has layers but they are negotiable .

  52. GIMP's interface has improved vastly most recently by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't help but guess it's been awhile since you last tried it. That said, I agree with you, it's not Photoshop.

    Still, for someone who doesn't spend their life in Photoshop, I am quick to suggest GIMP for Linux and Windows users, or GIMP or Pixelmator for Mac users.

    Cause let's face it, Photoshop *IS* expensive.