Slashdot Mirror
Fighting TSA Harassment of Disabled Travelers
An anonymous reader writes "A man with a neurological disorder is currently pushing the TSA to release a full list of its policies and procedures after a series of incidents in which he was harassed while trying to fly. His condition requires medical liquids and causes episodic muteness, and the TSA makes his encounters very difficult. From January: 'Boston Logan TSA conducted an illegal search of my xray-cleared documents (probably motivated either by my opting out or by my use of sign language to communicate). They refused to give me access to the pen and paper that I needed to communicate. Eventually they gave it to me, but then they took it away in direct retaliation for my using it to quote US v Davis and protest their illegal search (thereby literally depriving me of speech). They illegally detained me for about an hour on spurious, law enforcement motivated grounds (illegal under Davis, Aukai, Fofana, Bierfeldt, etc). ... TSA has refused to comply with the ADA grievance process; they are over a month beyond the statutory mandate for issuing a written determination.'"
I haven't traveled to the USA.
The exchange rate makes it a reasonable destination, but I don't want to be treated like dirt.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Security guards that the government for some reason decided were federal agents. If this were any kind of public servant (apart from police of any kind), you could expect adherence to some kind of professional standard, but you're looking at the mall cops of the state security apparatus. A joke from top to bottom.
The importance of stories such as these, are that they open peoples eyes to a fundamental truth: The protections you think you have as an American, are only in force so long as it is convenient to those who are in power. In reality, we live in a state every bit as totalitarian as the USSR or North Korea...only that totalitarianism is selectively, and irratically enforced.
Why does some idiot like yourself always make the comment "hurr durr, this isn't news for nerds".
Even if it isn't "news for nerds" (and I don't see how it isn't), it's still "stuff that matters".
Yeah, where does he get off having a neurological condition rendering him unable to speak?
That bastard.
The TSA has had almost free range to infringe on US citizen's rights without consequence (increasingly so since the terror-pocalypse).
Publicizing these type of stories is good, but how can we best see their powers reigned in and actually enforce respecting our rights?
What do you expect from the Terrorist State Agency?
9/11 was the final battle against the terrorists. The terrorists won.
Good security is not about making clever rules. It's about dealing properly with the exceptions of those rules. Banishing liquids from airplanes is nothing more than a rule. Its level of security depends on how you deal with the situations in which you must, or at least should, allow a bottle of liquid on an airplane. If you don't have rules for that, if your personel is not trained and aware for those situations, your whole security setup is vulnerable for social engineering and it becomes nothing more than security theater.
It doesn't have to be like this. All we need to do is make sure we keep talking.
Some geeks have interests reaching beyond IT. This is expression of both i.e. their geekismo and their broad interests. I do not see a problem here albeit I admit the amount of IT or broader technology related articles is rather low or late. Maybe this is sign of times. The basic technology is offshored to Zamunda and the rest is too complex to be understood by an average geek and/or discussed in a popular thread. Quite frankly the others social sites for nerds are either populated by aggressive indihviduals with agendas or are bloody boring. For the geek from old good times when we were writting applications in the house and could understood how they worked within limited time that is too bad. Considering all this I think /. is still not that bad.
I'm normally not one for coarse language and insults, but, given that the atypical neurogenic tic disorder that the individual suffers from can lead to both life-threatening asphyxia and tachycardia, I would have to say that you are a massively apathetic twat. I hope that you never become afflicted by any debilitating condition, let alone wind up in a similar situation and encounter someone insouciant who denies you access to medicine or necessary sustenance, as I doubt you'd have the fortitude to stand up to your ilk.
Fortunately, your pococurante attitude served some purpose beyond broadcasting your own inadequacies: it spurred me to pledge several thousand dollars for this guy's legal fund.
This is what I don't get about people these days.
None of you are willing to sacrifice ANYTHING or inflict ANY kind of inconvenience upon yourself to deal with the issues that need to be dealt with. You just sit there and whine and complain about everything, you make up excuses from thin air and say you've got no choice. Well, news flash, you do.
You want to get rid of the TSA?
Don't fly.
It's that simple. No, don't tell me you have to. You don't. You get enough people together and you all refuse to fly until the TSA is dismantled, and you know what'll happen? The airlines will get things changed in a hurry and the TSA will evaporate in a puff of invalid logic. It's that simple!
"Oh but it isn't and I have no choice and I need to fly and-"...
Yeah, that right there, that's the reason why the TSA still exists. You're unwilling to inconvenience yourself. None of you are. So the TSA will continue to inconvenience you instead, because they've got you by the balls (sometimes literally) and they know it. They'll continue to squeeze and squeeze, they'll expand out into the rest of the world like a cancerous tumour and then, when you find yourself in a police state and the TSA controls all major forms of travel- you'll wonder why you didn't do something sooner.
The fact that you think you have no choice is precisely what they want you to think, because that is what gives them control over you.
Cue the endless stream of "I have to fly, you're wrong, if I wish really hard I'm sure the TSA will go away all the same" replies.
it spurred me to pledge several thousand dollars for this guy's legal fund.
Glad to see some people actually being willing to stand up for others, consider yourself gaining a +1 charisma from me :)
The TSA says they are all about the war on terror.
But their actions prove they are only interested in conducting a War on Diginity.
Groping children
soaking a man in his own urine
Arresting people for wearing watches with exposed gears
Arbitrary strip-searches
Detaining people armed with flash cards
Forcing mothers to drink their own breast milk
Forcing a woman to remove her nipple ring with pliers
Requiring women to remove their bras
Requiring a woman to remove the brace on her sprained ankle and then making her walk on it to prove it was sprained
The list of abuses is into the thousands. Every once in a while they get a taste of their stupidity. But it isn't anywhere near enough.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
For domestic travel anyway. I've traveled with Amtrak in California & across the South, coast to coast, no complaints at all. Actually I think there are still trains between Montreal & NY. What about Windsor & Detroit, Seattle & British Columbia, etc? From what I understand only freight trains run between Mexico & the US, but I assume there was passenger train travel between Mexico & the US in the past, say the late 1800s to the 1950s?
Because...
1. They are mandated to.
2. They can.
Choose any 2 from the above list.
It certainly sounds like this guy found himself quite a loophole to effectivly circumvent the 3oz liquid restriction.
If the TSA has no way of disambiguating a "tropical energy drink" from medicine and there are no medical documentation requirements plus other laws provide privacy and accessibility protections for medical conditions then anyone can use these constraints to get any soft drinks they want thru in any amounts.
I say don't be hatin on the loophole finder for expliotin. Loopholes are fair game. Certainly less morally objectional than expliots of the cherckoff group and others who have directly profited from TSA "security theatre" egrgiously wasting US taxpayer dollars.
Somebody close to me developed anomic aphasia recently, and I can certainly vouch for a recent finding of a UK health study - anybody who has suffered aphasia will vouch that it is one of the most debilitating disorders you can have. Aphasia is any condition that interferes with speech, and anomic aphasia basically is an inability to assign names to things (you can see an object and fully understand its deign/function/purpose, but you can't come up with the word to describe it and will not remember it even if told it).
Imagine being able to do anything normally, except communicate. This guy was fortunate that he could even write (and depriving him of a pen/paper is COMPLETELY INHUMANE - no different than putting a muzzle on somebody without such a condition). If you end up with damage in the language centers of your brain you're reduced to little more than gestures and a handful of words to communicate (the same regions govern ALL forms of language from speech to writing to sign language - no, there isn't an easy workaround), or pointing at pictures assuming a useful picture is there (and no, you can't spell words by pointing at the letters, or use any kind of symbolic representation of words, since that's the part of your brain that isn't working).
Most people who interact with somebody with aphasia assume they're mentally retarded, and treat them as such. (Not necessarily in an unkind manner, but rather by assuming that they need to be treated paternalistically and that they shouldn't be allowed to make decisions for themselves for their own sake.) While conditions that can cause aphasia can also cause other cognitive problems, they do not always do so. In general somebody with aphasia is no more or less intelligent than anyone else. However, they make poor advocates for themselves so they suffer quite a bit.
A recent episode was when the person I was talking about had to take a driving knowledge test. It was multiple choice, was computer based, and even included some pictures and recorded readings of all the questions and their answers that could be played repeatedly. However, it took about 10-15 attempts to pass the test (one per day per the state's rules, and spending about an hour to get through about a dozen questions). If you had asked them to give a free response to any of the questions they could have answered the questions verbally and satisfied you that they understood basic driving laws. However, somebody with anomic aphasia needs freedom to find words they can understand - it is very difficult for them to understand a fixed sentence just by listening to it over and over. Simply comparing the various choices to determine how they differ took many repetitions. In the end they passed both knowledge and driving examinations, but it was quite an arduous journey. It likely would not have been possible but for the fact that they had recovered quite a bit of their ability to communicate.
In general we as a society do not do a very good job accommodating those with neurlogical disorders.
Dignity is only the start. It's security theatre, nothing else. Their function is to manufacture fear the same as a factory manufactures auto parts.
This is not an error or a misjudgement; causing people the maximum of harassment with the most egregious violations of legal rights and doing so with the minimum of justification is the goal. In IT terms, it's a feature, not a bug.
Anyone thinking the TSA will be reined in because of a public outcry or legal challenges is completely missing the point.
I just love the TSA. They sent my CAC card back through the X-ray machine, all alone, in the little tray. It was in my wallet and had set off a wand. For those of you unfamiliar with the CAC, it's a MILITARY I.D. Card that tells people you're in the Armed Services. It has a little 'not-so-smart' metal chip and card-reader plate. Seeing my I.D. card take it's lonely journey through the x-ray machine brought tears to my eyes. Tears of laughter. And that laughter hurt them more than any indignation I might have shown.
I've added two links to the top of the page which should convince you otherwise. You may be a doctor, but you are sure as hell not *my* doctor. I have in fact had a pretty thorough medical evaluation.
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
Pournell's law of bureaucracy:
Once an organization reaches a certain size, it's primary focus changes from servicing customers or citizens to perpetuating the bureaucracy.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
I've tried to address some of the questions people raised @ http://saizai.com/tsa#FAQ If you have more, please add them as responses to this. I don't guarantee I'll answer 'em all individually, but I'll try to make sure the FAQ addresses all substantive issues raised. Cheers, Sai
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
(OP subject here)
I'm very sorry to hear about your friend. Anomic aphasia is pretty bad; having Wernicke's would be horrifying to me. I can testify that it's frustrating enough just dealing with my mutism.
FWIW, my condition is a production problem, not aphasia. I just can't make my voice work sometimes (couple times a month, lasts a few hours). I can still sign, write, type, etc just fine so long as my arm isn't physically spasming too badly or the like, and I still have full cognition / linguistic ability / etc.
I figure that as neurological disorders go, I'm pretty lucky. There are people who have it way worse than me, and your friend's one of 'em.
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
Yes, the Cover Your Ass reaction. I see the exact same thing in school discipline cases; everyone needs, as their highest priority, to CYA. We live in a blame-oriented society; there are no accidents, there are no mistakes, someone has to be punished for every negative outcome. Zero tolerance. Our legal system has made us like this. Every TSA agent or school principal who irrationally hassles someone, starts doing that so they're not the one who Let Something Bad Happen.
Of course many people, who've already been made to feel powerless in their own lives, discover this authority allowing them push people around feels good. So they do more of it...
See He ought to sue the persons responsible, as individualspour encourager les autres.
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
He ought to sue those persons responsible, as individuals. Going all the way to the top. IMNHO, there is more than cause for him to do so. And he certainly has standing...
A few multi-million-dollar judgements against individual TSA agents and managers would do a lot pour encourager les autres.
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
Hey Sparky...
If you don't like reading it, why don't you skip the article... SOME of us consider TSA to be a BIG problem....
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
Actually, the accent Americans speak today is actually mush closer to real (old) English than what the English speak. Around the time when the US was just some colonies, French influence on language had become popular among the upper classes. Never really understood the the English/French love/hate thing they have going on.
That being said, I watch shows off BBC (love QI) and they refer to us as "America" all the time.
Reminds me of the old joke:
Q: What's the best way to tell the difference between a Canadian and an American?
A: Casually comment that there isn't any.
...laura, proudly Canadian
The shoes aren't checked for flight into the US. Checking flights within and from the US doesn't really do anything to prevent a future shoe bomber. It doesn't seem like theater, it IS theater.
You left out the part where he quoted the TSA's own policy (that any amount of liquid for a medical condition is allowed once it has been screened), and that he had it screened.
He doesn't expect anyone to "get by" by saying "I need my juice, for medical reasons, I'm not
going to tell you more." - He expects that the TSA will follow its own written and well documented procedure, and the previously determined rulings of the courts over what the TSA is expected to do. They have the means to screen the liquid, and their policy allows an unlimited quantity of it to be taken on board.
In other words, he wants them to follow the law as it is written. They did not do this.
Try reading the article, and also maybe the summary too. I find it helps when commenting on the story so you don't look like a moron.
This is why we make you take off your shoes.
Guessing that the Underwear Bomber explains why we have nude-o-scopes, too.
Sure going to be fun when the dreaded "Rectal Bomber" finally makes his move.
Does anyone know of a flight search engine that allows you to do this ?
While it will not specifically filter out transfers through a particular country it lets you manually select individual flight legs and you can filter via airline (there are a lot of other options too) so just do not use a US airline and you should be good. I use it regularly to get from Canada to CERN avoiding the US and the multi-transfer, large lay over option via Montreal that the Air Canada site will invariably pick out purely for their benefit so you fly on an Air Canada flight all the way to Geneva rather than use Swiss or Lufthansa in Europe. You may have to try a few options before you find one with a reasonable price but I've found it to be the most flexible of all the travel sites I've used (and in case you were wondering I am not in anyway associated with it!).
Its only downside is that you cannot book through their site - they just provide a link to a travel site like Travelocity or Expedia with the options to book the exact flight schedule. So you usually end up having to pay in US dollars even though you never go through the US!
Sorry, the link I gave before was to the list of comments received. Here's the link to the main summary with all documents and information.
Or we could just stop being so afraid of nearly nonexistent threats and just dismantle the TSA completely.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
People are stupid. The TSA repeatedly told us to remove EVERYTHING from our pockets. I can't tell you how many people tried to pass through without doing that, then held the fucking line up while they were put through again. I posit that there are individuals who just make trouble for themselves by not following simple directions. Yeah, I know about rebellion. Standing in line at the airport isn't the place to be rebellious.
Actually, it was the TSA that was holding the line up with their nonsense, not the people who kept things in their pockets.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Who the hell are any of you that you get to decide how we refer to ourselves. We are not USians where ever you got you got that please stop, Ask anyone in the world who the Americans are, and I promise you more then 90% will tell you what we already know. That the term Americans refers to the citizens of the United States of America. Try it for your self, go down to Venezuela and call them American. I bet they won't thank you.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Did you even listen to what I said? This is the government arbitrarily deciding that the constitution does not apply in airports, and searching everyone without a warrant or even a solid reason. All I can figure is that you don't care about the constitution at all.
Furthermore, driving a car, riding a train, and riding a boat are also all optional activities. Hell, travel in general can be an optional activity! The fact that something is an optional activity does not mean the government should be able to blatantly violate your rights in exchange for letting you have the 'privilege' of going about your business. Actually, living in a particular city is also optional; you could live elsewhere, right? So should the government be able to arbitrarily declare certain locations constitution-free zones or not? Do you even understand the implications of this?
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Oh look another one of these posts. "Slashdot, I was wronged. The party that wronged me broke several laws and treated me in a degrading way. What should I do?"
The answer is ALWAYS to HIRE A LAWYER!
HIRE A FUCKING LAWYER! Someone broke the law, you need a lawyer if you want to take any action against them. If they're violating deadlines and laws regarding interactions with people with disabilities then you probably have a good legal case lined up. However, if you sit on your ass then your opportunity is going to disappear. You need to hire a lawyer and act fast.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.