Fighting TSA Harassment of Disabled Travelers

An anonymous reader writes "A man with a neurological disorder is currently pushing the TSA to release a full list of its policies and procedures after a series of incidents in which he was harassed while trying to fly. His condition requires medical liquids and causes episodic muteness, and the TSA makes his encounters very difficult. From January: 'Boston Logan TSA conducted an illegal search of my xray-cleared documents (probably motivated either by my opting out or by my use of sign language to communicate). They refused to give me access to the pen and paper that I needed to communicate. Eventually they gave it to me, but then they took it away in direct retaliation for my using it to quote US v Davis and protest their illegal search (thereby literally depriving me of speech). They illegally detained me for about an hour on spurious, law enforcement motivated grounds (illegal under Davis, Aukai, Fofana, Bierfeldt, etc). ... TSA has refused to comply with the ADA grievance process; they are over a month beyond the statutory mandate for issuing a written determination.'"

Comments

My answer

[ozmanjusri]

I haven't traveled to the USA.

The exchange rate makes it a reasonable destination, but I don't want to be treated like dirt.

Re:My answer

[thephydes]

Agreed, there are places in the US that I'd like to visit, but frankly I'd prefer to wait for hours in Nairobi (yes I've done that) than have some officious asshole abuse me or my family. Thanks TSA you have really enhanced the world view of your cuntry oops ..... country.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Already been there two times. I did not feel treated like dirt, but like others airports screening process...

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here - my family actually used to own property in the US but we all sold up and left due to the actions and policies of the TSA and DHS.

One thing though: I find it very tricky to search for flights between Europe and America while excluding all hits that require a transfer in the US. Currently, I have to do it "old-school" (ie: visit a human travel agent who does the search for me) but it would be a lot easier if there was a search engine that allowed this kind of filtering.
Does anyone know of a flight search engine that allows you to do this ?

Re:My answer

[Aethedor]

I totally agree. The TSA consists of a bunch of mindless idiots following stupid rules. There is nothing that those TSA idiots did that ever stopped a terrorist attack. The only thing the TSA is good for is wasting money and pissing of Americans and foreigners.

Re:My answer

[_KiTA_]

I totally agree. The TSA consists of a bunch of mindless idiots following stupid rules. There is nothing that those TSA idiots did that ever stopped a terrorist attack. The only thing the TSA is good for is wasting money and pissing of Americans and foreigners.

Wrong.

The modern TSA is a way to legally funnel government funds to contractors in the United States.

In addition, it gives the airlines and government a shield in case anything DOES happen. "Well, we at least TRIED to stop it."

The combination of the two means that it will never stop, and it will never get better.

Re:My answer

[theshowmecanuck]

The U.S. is America.

Re:My answer

[zequav]

Yep. I'm a university professor and have visited USA before (conferences), but I'm not doing it again. Several years ago I decided not to send papers to any conference there.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Already been there two times. I did not feel treated like dirt, but like others airports screening process...

Don't know what "other" airports you have been to, but I have been to airports in both Asia and Europe in the past few years (India, Japan, Germany, UK, etc), and NONE, no even a single one, had a screening process that is even remotely close to TSA.

For the past decade, I refused to travel to the US for the same reason, even though there are quite a few places I would like to visit.

Re:My answer

[Dekker3D]

The US is the united part of America, while there's also this continent called.. you guessed it.. America. It can be subdivided into North and South America, but if you just call it America, it's the whole you'd actually be talking about.

Re:My answer

[umghhh]

tricky this.

Indeed a friend of mine traveling from NL to Mexico with transfer in US was asked to produce transit visa in US (this was in 1998 I believe so even before TSA). He is Polish so the traditional friendship between the great nations of Poland and US cost him hours of stress and missed flight to Mexico. He also needed to buy a new ticket to Mexico and arrange for a new no-US transfer flight back to Europe because he was put on some sort of special list for terrorists and other persona non grata. This was as said before TSA and I see the situation 'improved' a lot since then.

Not sure what does it do except proves that US authorities behave like assholes towards anybody because they can - it certainly does not improve security. I guess US is a federation i.e. there are really progressive states nice to visit and maybe even work but I would never know because at this time even if I personally do not have to have a visa to travel there I would only go if they really pay well say with the rates used when you travel to war zone which is unlikely. Even if they paid well I would consider twice before going. I am considered conservative and pro-US by majority of my friends so go figure.

Re:My answer

[Ultra64]

Then what are Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia,
Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, French Guiana, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay, Venezuela, Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Panama?

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Same thing. I have friends in the USA I wish I could visit and have had the money to do so for a bunch of years now, but no, I'd rather go to China, I'm sure I'd deal with smiling security staff there instead of thugs that would irradiate me or feel my junk.

Re:My answer

[gomiam]

Not anymore, it seems :)

Re:My answer

[GPierce]

Use the dictionary of your choice and check the words "continent" and "country".

Re:My answer

[longk]

I did travel to the USA last year and experienced no unfriendliness by TSA officers. Near the end of my trip my visa was extended without hassle so I could complete medical treatment after I had an emergency hospital visit. I was quite impressed and pleased with the US authorities really.

Regardless, do you really make a trip decision based on the few minutes of interaction you may have with the border authorities? I've been traveling extensively the last 7 years and most problems I encounter occur once I'm inside the country, not at the border. I'd rather have someone ask me the purpose of my visit and send me on my way than deal with hotel staff about a broken airco or having to return a rental because they gave me a car where one of the tires needs inflating every 3 days.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are you going? Try Air Canada to avoid a US transfer.

Re:My answer

[mfh]

I too have suspended travel to the USA. They need to change their ways and learn some customer service before they'll get my tourist dollars.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly the same here. Corrupt at best legal system and horny security guards to the entire country is a huge turn-off.

I've blacklisted myself from America.

Re:My answer

[Ultra64]

What are you trying to say? Those are all "countries" in the "continents" of North and South America.

Re:My answer

[longk]

Try Schiphol, Amsterdam. I found leaving Amsterdam much more tedious than leaving Dallas (both recent flights.) Same silly body scanners and security procedures but in Dallas I didn't have to wait and staff was reasonably friendly while in Amsterdam the lines were long and staff arrogant. They actually called a little girl stupid for forgetting to remove her water bottle.

More to the point: how can you know the TSA is so horrible if you didn't go there for a decade? I don't want to defend the TSA, I'm sure incidents happen and some airports in the US suck, but I get the feeling most people at many airports experience no real issues.

Finally, I do totally agree with regards to Asian airports. People still treat you like the well paying customer that you are instead of cattle that needs processing. Very refreshing.

Re:My answer

[longk]

Please do tell us why. Was your decision based on stories you read in news papers? Experiences of friends and colleagues? A personal experience?

Re:My answer

[Runaway1956]

Oh, come on. I don't believe that they would feel your junk on every trip. Not more than 35% of TSA is gay, are they?

Re:My answer

[Runaway1956]

You had a good experience. Either that, or you're more tolerant of invasive scanning, searching, and questioning.

I'm terribly intolerant of being questioned, felt up, irradiated, or justifying my presence and/or my travel plans. Meeting just one asshole who thinks it his right to grope me, or to push me around, or even to be overly disrespectful could cost much, much more than the trip is worth.

I've not flown since before 9/11/01, and probably won't again.

Re:My answer

[AmiMoJo]

If it had a measurable effect on tourist numbers or very large numbers of Americans started to reject it then something might happen. If your rail network didn't suck so much one of the companies could run an advertising campaign along the lines of "Don't like getting your balls checked for explosives or your children sexually assaulted in public? Take the train!"

The problem is that people flying tend to either have no realistic choice or are willing to put up with a little T&A to get to Disney Land.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, I know of one very distinguished German prof who ended up three days in jail while traveling to a conference. He is 78 years old.

Re:My answer

[thetoadwarrior]

Those are countries. Some reside in North America and some reside in South America. If you couldn't figure ou they were countries then maybe you shouldn't participate in adult conversations.

Re:My answer

[blind biker]

The exact same thing happened to me, just replace Poland with Croatia, Mexico with Finland and USA with Belgium. The asshole border police at the Bruxelles airport let me fly to Finland finally, but admonished me that "I am not allowed to come to Belgium for the next 10 years". This was 15 years ago and I now have a Finnish citizenship and have traveled all around the world, visited four different continents. But funnily enough, by pure chance I never went to Belgium again. Maybe it wasn't chance, maybe the bad experience made me put Belgium in the "fuck that country"-category.

Re:My answer

[zequav]

Stories I've read about harrasment. Mainly those with videos proving it was not an invention. Also, NOBODY is going to confiscate my laptop/phone/whatever just because. At least this month (after how many years?) a federal court ruled that what happened at the borders was going too far: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/8/court-limits-feds-ability-search-laptops-border/?page=all

Re:My answer

[Antique Geekmeister]

It's not the contractors. It's the bureacrats who manage them. I've known several people in the job: they're underpaid, overworked, given stacks of conflicting policies and procedures, and practices change from particular site manager to site manager with every shift. There are places that do it very well, politely, helpfully, respecting the passengers and the needs of the elderly and children and frightened, tired people. But those careful agents and agencies tend to be at smaller airports.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

In the opinion of many: mostly colonies, except French Guiana wich is an exotic part of the dirty frog eating surender monkeys...
for others of course French Guiana is the only left over colonie in the list, but these must be frigging liberals...

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a very bad experience a couple of years back. I went to the US and on the way out the airline did not pull the green card that they
staple to the passport. I did not think anything of it. When back a couple of months later (flying into LA). They pulled me out and said
that the fact that the paper was still in my passport was proof that I had left the country without using an official exit and that I would have to
prove that I had left the country in time. It took a monstrous amount of paperwork over a year to get back to normal status- copies of
paychecks, proof that I gave my classes back in Europe. Major headache due to a mess by the airline.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Direct flight to canada, preferably avoiding British Airways and Air Canada, you should be ok with Swish, KLM or Air France (if you come "close" to the US border the Canadian accepted to submit to US flight conditions, so you'd prefer an airline that takes the flights as north as possible.

If you go to South america you will find direct flight to brazil, and for any other south american country use the Argentinian LAN, Buenos aires is quite a good hub, and LAN tries do be cheap (not always the most reliable in timing though, but then ... it's kind of a regional thing).

For Central America you can use Mexico city as an hub, and AeroMexico goes direct from europe to Mexico.

And finaly you can use www.amadeus.net and filter out: all american airlines, and prefer direct flights, this should enable you to find your flight quite easely and even if you might see now and then a share code flight that goes through some US hub, it will be clearly marked, and you'll be able to compare the price difference, and decide if in the faster/cheaper/less hassle criteria one or two trumps three ...

  Cheers, and happy flights

Re:My answer

[slashdyke]

It is not a search engine per say, but if you look for flights from companies in countries that are not the US, but are on the continent, you can find lots. Being Canadian, Air Canada is the obvious choice... lots of flights to/from Europe, connect in Cnaada and continue onto countries in Central and South America. I am sure Aero Mexico offers some European flights direct to Mexico and then connect again.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Tel Aviv is also quite creative ... but to be honest although the process is extensive, long and obviously boring it always felt more or less reasonable
I think the main reason being that on one hand the agents really feel they are personally responsible for the security of their country
and on the other hand seem to have enough autonomy to be able to use their brain.
For example, once I was detained, looking nervous, haggard, sweating a lot, in short looking very suspicious, but when I explained the agent that I just ran all the lengh of the aeroport with a heavy carry along bag because my flight had be rescheduled, and was worrying that I would miss it because I was expected at an important business meeting in two hour after my landing... he said: yep that seems coherent: have a nice flight and let me through, even assisted me to jump part of the line to make sure I would be in time for boarding...

Re:My answer

[AK Marc]

Not in American English. There is North America and South America, but "America" unabmiguously refers to the United States of America. Australian English is the same, but with less of a stake in the confusion, are a little more lax. The only ones I've seen who insist that "America" refers to "The Americas" are those who learned English as a second language, most commonly those who speak Spanish run across the "false friend" and presume equivalence.

Re:My answer

[bistromath007]

Considering that the guy you're replying to is named "theshowmecanuck," I imagine he was satirizing the tendency of the US to dictate a great deal of Canadian policy, and to regard everything south of its borders as Mordor.

Re:My answer

[joe_frisch]

I travel a lot. US TSA is bad, but not worse than the UK. A lot of other airports are pretty bad, some are much better.

I think airport security is a big problem, but not unique to the US.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, AMS and (at least some) UK airports were among the first to implement this madness with nude scans and no-water rules started. But those seem to have remained an exception in Europe. Therefore, better to avoid those too.

Re:My answer

[heypete]

I'm an American living in Switzerland and fly fairly regularly out of the major Swiss airports (Geneva and Zurich), as well as several other big European airports (London Heathrow, London Gatwick, Frankfurt, etc.). I also fly (or have flown) fairly regularly to/from major US airports (Washington-Dulles, Chicago, Atlanta, the New York airports, Houston, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Los Angeles, etc.

While each country and airport has its own different quirks for airport security and border controls, I've never really had a "bad" screening process with any airport -- including those in the US. The TSA's asked me to go through the nude-o-scope once (every other time has been the standard metal detector), I politely opted-out, they did a quick pat-down, and I was on my way faster than many people who went through the scanner. One time my wristwatch set off the metal detector in Zurich and they gave me a similar pat-down, only it was slightly faster as they weren't explaining exactly what they were going to do like the TSA guy was. Both were of similar degrees of "invasiveness" (that is, not unusually invasive for a standard pat-down search). The screening of carry-on luggage has been pretty much the same for decades and hasn't given me any hassle.

Even when taking unusual electronics in carryon luggage, such as scientific equipment to Oman, there hasn't been any issues.

The only difference I've noticed between the US and European screening is that the Europeans don't require that I take off my shoes. A minor thing and something I find fairly stupid, but hardly the end of the world.

To me, the big difference is at border checkpoints: the Swiss checkpoints are, as you might expect, quick and efficient. The British seem to hire cheerful, pleasant people to staff their checkpoints and I've never had any issues with them at all. Lines have been minimal, even leading up to the Olympics.

The American customs and border patrol people are dressed like street cops (including body armor) at the checkpoint. They routinely have drug-sniffing dogs and will randomly pull people out of line for additional searches. Even as a US citizen, they scrutinize my passport as if it were a fine work of art and take a moderate amount of time to do so. Evidently non-citizens from visa-waiver countries need to do some pre-travel background check online that costs $15 or so (but is good for 5 years), get fingerprinted, and have their photo taken. That's definitely a hassle and I think it's unnecessary and way more uptight than the European passport control process. Still, the whole process takes just a few minutes and you only need to go through it at the border; once inside the country it's not an issue.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a university professor who cares about civil liberties yet you read the washington times?

Re:My answer

[Cwix]

You are an idiot.

This fight has been waged on Slashdot before, the side you are taking lost. The sad part is the only reason you would phrase it that way would be to cause confusion, and piss off your listeners. I can only assume that you are related to either Rush Limbaugh, or Glenn Beck.

Re:My answer

[Mister Liberty]

Amsterdam / Schiphol! What a laugh!
Don't you know they're the most horrible low-lifes that you
might think of -- kiss-up to American asses out of free will?
In that regard, indeed you might find an airport or two in the
US that's less worse, but it's a silly comparison.

Re:My answer

[murdocj]

Having spent 3 hours in 4 lines in Caracas getting documents stamped, checked, restamped, rechecked, etc I'd much rather travel in the USA.

Re:My answer

[purnima]

I'm an Arab professor. I look like an Arab and have an accent. I travel to the US all the time. Aside from my experiences in 2002, I have never had a problem getting into the US for conferences. The TSA/border control people are always very nice and polite. Maybe I've been lucky.

Re:My answer

[Alain Williams]

I have been to the USA, but well before 9/11. I now refuse to travel there, I work freelance I have refused work that would have required me to go there. The root cause of the TSA harassment is: power + lack_of_accountability = abuse.

This is all fuelled by the need to have an enemy, now that the ''red commies'' are no longer a threat another boojums have to be found to provide excuses for government spending and keeping the population under control. Terrorists and paedophiles are two of the current ones. I am not saying that they don't exist, but the threat is vastly exaggerated. It is more complicated than I have time for ...

Re:My answer

[murdocj]

I travel a few times a year. "Screening" for me is about a 10-15 minute process, including waiting in line. Compared to getting to the airport, getting checked in, spending 6 hours in cattle class in the plane, paying extra for the privilege of bringing luggage, etc, it's just not that big a deal. And having traveled thru Britain during the IRA era, I'd say it's also not that unprecedented.

Re:My answer

[skegg]

Giddy-yup !

I've said it here before:
I would absolutely LOVE to go to the U.S. ... but I refuse to go while such conditions exist.

The Australian / US exchange rate makes Hawaii a particularly attractive destination for me, but it ain't happening. I'll instead go to another, if slightly less desirable, destination.

Re:My answer

[murdocj]

Your call. I've probably flown 20 times since then, no pat downs, no invasive searches.

Re:My answer

[flyingfsck]

Yup, the world is a big place and there are tons of nice places to go. Annoy a traveller, and he may never visit again and the country loses his foreign exchange for ever. I was refused entry into Holland decades ago and while I now hold a different citizenship, I have never bothered to to try to go there again. There are so many other, more interesting and friendlier places to visit. Who wants to see boring wind mills, stinking canals and dirty old Rembrands anyway?

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

You are deliberately being obtuse. You know that this causes confusion/anger among the people reading your posts, you are a horrible communicator.
Remember that English is not always a precise language. You drive on parkways and park in driveways for example. This is the same thing. You know what the word means, but you insist upon using it in a way that no one else does.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

The UK is enormous. It really varies. London's Heathrow airport, for example, is staffed by people fired from British Telecomm for actually helping a customer, and they'rve learned their lesson well. The London dron's ability to look blank and quote non-existent rules while you *show them* the regulations about about medical devices from their own rulebooks, which you've brought along a copy of, is amazing. The Dublin airport, conversely, was very helpful and understanding about my 4 year old daughter's insulin pump.

The EU security has, overall, been much more effective and well designed to set clear guidelines, and deal with surprises efficiently.

Re:My answer

[skegg]

do you really make a trip decision based on the few minutes of interaction you may have with the border authorities?

Well now, it all depends on those few minutes, doesn't it?

Let's say that they were going to irradiate me from head-to-toe. Or, oh I don't know, that some stranger was going to grope my penis and testicles. Perhaps I might look dimly upon those few minutes, mightn't I? Perhaps I might pick another location on the map for my vacation.

Re:My answer

[PopeRatzo]

I haven't traveled to the USA.

And the US is just devastated.

Re:My answer

[Shadow of Eternity]

I don't want to defend the TSA, I'm sure incidents happen and some airports in the US suck, but I get the feeling most people at many airports experience no real issues.

No, no they pretty much all suck all the time. We're just so accustomed to it at this point that most people simply take it up the ass, grumble, and move on.

Re:My answer

[Culture20]

And Germany likes to call its country Deustchland. People who don't want to cause waves when speaking German say Deustchland, not "Germany". In America, North America is a continent, South America is a continent, "the Americas" refers to both, and "America" is a shortened name for the United States of America, just like "China" is short for People's Republic of China. If you don't want to be confused when discussing America with an American, learn this instead of insisting their entire country is wrong for what they call their own country.

Re:My answer

[PopeRatzo]

Finland is a great place. And I agree about Belgium.

But I wonder how much of the mess that happens at borders is caused by cultural misunderstanding. Years ago, traveling in South Asia, I had a problem at a border and I realized later that it was not because there was something about the country that was inhospitable, but there were aspects of my behavior that were giving unintended insult.

Of course, you want the people at borders (including airports) to be trained to be a little thick-skinned when dealing with foreigners, but people are people.

I have great sympathy for the traveler described in the article, but I've never had a single problem traveling in the US and my only frustration with TSA is that they slow things down.

Re:My answer

[isorox]

Your call. I've probably flown 20 times since then, no pat downs, no invasive searches.

Well I've flown 20 times this year. 80 times in the last 12 months. Several pat downs - moscow, london, paris just one of those things you have to accept in the real world to get on.

My last 2 trips to the USA had me walk through the metal detector, so no opt-out pat down needed.

Triggered a metal detector in London on Friday so needed a pat down and shoe removal, rather annoying. Did the same in Manchester on Monday - uk must have had them turned up in sensitivity this week.

Moscow you can't opt out of the mmw scanner, never had a pat down. Same in israel when entering the country from Gaza.

No pat down in Singapore, Tel Aviv, Joburg, Brussels from recent memory.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Already been there two times. I did not feel treated like dirt, but like others airports screening process...

Don't know what "other" airports you have been to, but I have been to airports in both Asia and Europe in the past few years (India, Japan, Germany, UK, etc), and NONE, no even a single one, had a screening process that is even remotely close to TSA.

For the past decade, I refused to travel to the US for the same reason, even though there are quite a few places I would like to visit.

I travel extensively as part of my job and have done so for years (typical 30-40 international round trip flights per year, 3-5 of which to US), and I agree with the poster you dismiss. I do not find the screening process in US airports that different from many other places, they ask a few more questions at immigration than fx Heathrow (especially since I'm doing the automatic e-passport gates at LHR), but going through security is pretty similar. I've heard the horror stories of course, but never experienced anything like it myself.

Re:My answer

[radio4fan]

I love visiting the US, but almost every time I've been put off by the unpleasant and agressive attitude of the people on the immigration desk. In my view they're much worse than the TSA on departure.

I'll put up with being photographed and fingerprinted (though I think it's downright daft), but my experience at immigration last time just took the piss.

I had made some trivial omission on my visa waiver form — I probably forgot to tick the box to say that I wasn't a spy, saboteur or Nazi war criminal (yes, this tick box really exists) — and I amended the form right there in two seconds, but the officious drone showed great pleasure in sending me to the back of the long queue like a naughty schoolboy.

Then when I got to the front of the queue again — this time to a different drone — I was accused of "abusing the visa waiver" because I had the temerity to visit the US twice in one year (once to San Francisco, that time to NYC, both fairly long visits). It was insinuated that I wasn't welcome back for some — unspecified — period of time. The visa waiver FAQ specifically states that there are no limits to the number of visits in any given period of time.

I guess the government is only interested in promoting tourism when it means handing out billions of dollars to the airlines.

I decided at the time that I would never go back to the US, but time heals all wounds and I'm starting to think I can put up with the necessary humiliation again.

As absolutely everybody else I've met in person in the US has been smart, funny and friendly I can only assume that all your assholes work in airports.

Re:My answer

[N1AK]

Surely the point is equally true in reverse? When using an internationally frequented forum don't assume people are using the US 'definition' of America or that they are obligated to do so to be polite. Your point about German isn't really relevant as we're not speaking 'American' in the USA; we're speaking English on a forum used by people from dozens, or probably hundreds, of countries.

Re:My answer

[ConaxConax]

Did he answer "yes" to the question "Between the years of 1933 and 1945 have you ever been affiliated with or been a member of the Nazi Party of Germany?" (I think that's the correct wording.)

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you seriously quoting the Washington Times?

Re:My answer

[Culture20]

They work in any federal government position and their ire is directed toward not just foreigners, but also citizens. State and local government workers tend toward normal population ratios for assholery.

Re: My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Count the number of TSA incidents like this one and divide it by the number of screened passengers. The result will be quite small. I have travelled many, many times w/o incident as have most (United States of) Americans.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

At this point, you had it right the first time...

Re:My answer

[isorox]

Evidently non-citizens from visa-waiver countries need to do some pre-travel background check online that costs $15 or so (but is good for 5 years)

2 years, it's a tourist tax. It adds $1/trip to my plane ticket.

get fingerprinted, and have their photo taken. That's definitely a hassle and I think it's unnecessary and way more uptight than the European passport control process. Still, the whole process takes just a few minutes and you only need to go through it at the border; once inside the country it's not an issue.

Aside from the queues (Usually over 90 minutes when I fly into Dulles, and that's before the sequestor) not really a problem. On the whole the border guards are friendly. The fingerprint/photo thing ensures you're not travelling on someone else's passport -- its a shame that other countries don't reciprocate with US citizens like Brazil does.

P.S. Although America is the land of bribes ("tips"), don't try tipping a border guard.

Re:My answer

[belthize]

I haven't traveled to the USA.

The exchange rate makes it a reasonable destination, but I don't want to be treated like dirt.

We treat you like 'Earth'. You'll be strip mined, bombarded with high energy particles and lower life forms will crawl over your surface.

Re:My answer

[0100010001010011]

Not just getting out of but getting into. Getting into Poland, Germany, and Denmark all took maybe 15 minutes. Walked through the line. Looked at me, looked at the passport. Stamped it. Away I went.

In the US you have to fill out the landing card. Then the queue is about 90 minutes long. They asked me where I went. How long I was gone. Why would I ever leave glorious America. Then I got to go through.

Re:My answer

[isorox]

You had a good experience. Either that, or you're more tolerant of invasive scanning, searching, and questioning.

I'm terribly intolerant of being questioned, felt up, irradiated, or justifying my presence and/or my travel plans. Meeting just one asshole who thinks it his right to grope me, or to push me around, or even to be overly disrespectful could cost much, much more than the trip is worth.

I've not flown since before 9/11/01, and probably won't again.

If you haven't flown in 12 years, how do you know what really happens at airports?

I've never had a TSA person ask where I'm going, let alone why I'm going. Tel Aviv on the other hand often involves a 60 minute conversation.

The process is security theatre, after hitting a WTMD there's no reason not you have a quick wipe over with a hand held detector and a second pass, which used to happen in the UK pre 2001. The U.S. policy of removing shoes is silly too, but ultimately there's bigger things to worry about.

Re:My answer

[belthize]

No, in this context 'Murica' is the alternate name of the U.S., also known as 'upper Texas'.

Re:My answer

[Joe Decker]

...But I wonder how much of the mess that happens at borders is caused by cultural misunderstanding....I have great sympathy for the traveler described in the article, but I've never had a single problem traveling in the US and my only frustration with TSA is that they slow things down.

I'm sure some problems do happen because of cultural misunderstandings, but speaking as someone who grew up in the USA: the problems with the TSA are far more than cultural misunderstandings. I've had good experiences, to be sure, but some pretty horrible ones as well. I'll now drive half way across the country to avoid flying when it's possible, sadly that won't get me to many of the other places I need to get to.

Re:My answer

[nblender]

This. A thousand times this.

I used to head state-side a couple times a year. Haven't been for at least 7 years now. There are huge parts of Canada that I have yet to explore so the only reason I have to head down to the US is to visit friends.. Thankfully, they're also eager to leave the US so they come to visit me.

The US has turned shooting itself in the foot into an olympic sport.

Re:My answer

[Runaway1956]

How would I know about airport security? I read. I listen. There are stories of travelers being held and questioned because the TSA thought they were carrying to much money. They may only be abusive SOB's to one in a thousand passengers, but from what I read, it seems to be more like one in a couple hundred. Even if it were only one in ten thousand, why put yourself through it?

I disapprove of everything the TSA does. What they seem to do, more than anything, is to indoctrinate people into being docile toward people in uniform. I'm not a docile individual. Security theater is revolting, and I refuse to participate in any way.

Re:My answer

[Lumpy]

In the USA they hire morons and idiots to work for thew TSA. none of them have any Law enforcement background and are nothing more than minimum wage private store cops that have been given far more power than they should have.

Re:My answer

[i.r.id10t]

The first few verses of Wakko's "countries of the world"

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

this. right on the money.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

More to the point: how can you know the TSA is so horrible if you didn't go there for a decade? I don't want to defend the TSA, I'm sure incidents happen and some airports in the US suck, but I get the feeling most people at many airports experience no real issues.

Name a few other places that give you the choices between see-you-naked scanner (with bonus rads for you), legal-sexual-molest pat down, or not flying at all, then I may reconsider my opinion about the TSA screening.

I wasn't aware of anything similar in airports in Frankfurt, Heathrow, Mumbai, etc.

Re:My answer

[fustakrakich]

I blame Vespucci for all this confusion.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

It can be changed. All you need to do is make sure it effects the ones in power.

Make the TSA grope everybody at the small private airports as well as the big national- and international fields. Right now, if you have a private jet you aren't effected by this inconvenience. This exception, of course, largely excludes the hoi polloi but does include the rich and the powerful. The people who can effect a change aren't pushing for it because, right now, they are not disadvantaged by the law as it stands. Change the policy so that they too will have to stand in lines, take off their shoes and justify the bottle of shampoo in their carry-on and watch how fast the law gets repealed.

Re:My answer

[fustakrakich]

In the USA they hire morons and idiots to work for thew TSA.

Considering the pay, who else would take the job? The nature of it requires a certain amount of idiocy and arrogance to be able to abuse people and still sleep comfortably at night.

Re:My answer

[Teun]

Yet there is a difference.
All European international airports have an area behind customs declared 'neutral', you don't (need to) enter the state of Belgium to just transfer flights at Brussels.

As far as I know the US does not have such facilities, during an international transfer at any airport in the USofA you have to enter and exit the US = pass the TSA probe.

I have personal experience flying from Paris, London and Amsterdam to places like Mexico and Trinidad. When changing planes in Miami, Atlanta, Houston and Detroit I had to cross the US border, totally unnecessary and a real plight for those with passports of non-EU countries.

Re:My answer

[blind biker]

FWIW, in my case cutural differences didn't play a role. It was a misunderstanding about Schengen countries vs. visa requirement.

Also FWIW, I was told that the Belgian border policemen had no business telling me about the 10 year ban on entry. No such thing exists in such cases. Stil, the memory was bad enough that I never went back. I remember that, sometimes 4 or 5 years ago, I just realized "hey, I actually didn't visit Belgium this whole time!!". :D

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

They actually ask that or are you joking?

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

The US alliance with Israel is why they have the TSA, and why 9/11 even happened. Tel Aviv might be nice but the rest of the world is suffering because of them. If we should boycott anybody, it should be Israel and its apartheid government.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you got extremely lucky at the the border control in USA. Or maybe it's because you are a US citizen. I flew through Dallas in January and had to spend two hours waiting in a line for the immigration officer. It's extremely slow and tedious - and on my way back the same.

What's worse, I was just transferring to a flight to another country, I still had to go through the whole shebang. That's something you'll never experience in Europe.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

you get my points on this one
I AGREE FULLY

Re:My answer

[Teun]

You are absolutely correct, security at Tel Aviv is very creative and most certainly not a theatre run by barely alive monkeys like the TSA employs.
The Israeli routines are psychological and differ per person, very interesting to observe.

As are the ~18 y/o female subscripts doing the first line of questioning :)

Re:My answer

[dcollins]

"The TSA consists of a bunch of mindless idiots following stupid rules."

I think you're being too generous in the "following rules" part. This kind of corrupt, useless police-state bureaucracy is pretty transparently set up to allow idiots, too dumb to follow actual procedures, to act in an arbitrary and abusive manner, and then cover it up afterward with a sheen of supposed rulemaking (if only secretive and confidential, unstated rules). This article is a pretty good example of that -- the TSA has obviously broken the law multiple times for this one traveler.

Re:My answer

[Paul Jakma]

“All European international airports have an area behind customs declared 'neutral',”

I don't think this is true. Some big ones (Schiphol, Charles de Gaulle) maybe, but I don't think it's generally true.

Re:My answer

[dcollins]

"If it had a measurable effect on tourist numbers or very large numbers of Americans started to reject it then something might happen. If your rail network didn't suck so much one of the companies could run an advertising campaign along the lines of "Don't like getting your balls checked for explosives or your children sexually assaulted in public? Take the train!""

The only problem with that is the HSA/TSA is already chomping at the bit to roll out checks on trains, buses, and highways (lready spot-tested them in places). An aggressive ad campaign like that would be painting a bullseye on oneself, attract HSA scrutiny, and likely provide fodder for the next time they make their case in Congress ("This bus/train company is a massive security risk, and in fact advertises itself to criminals and terrorists.") So a fairly large business, under heavy federal regulation like that (consider the 26 or so budget bus lines from Boston to New York shut down in the last year), would likely have to be more diplomatic (consider also the various big tech companies that tried to go without lobbyists for the early part of their existence).

Re:My answer

[fustakrakich]

Just flash your two digit UID. You'll whiz right through.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to address some of what you are saying since it is not true.

I traveled recently to the USA (2010), and all I had to do was fill out a questionnaire onboard the flight and an extra security check at the gate itself. This was from Sola Airport, Norway via Arlanda Airport (where I had the extra check and subsequent form on the flight), Stockholm.

I also did not have any need to give a finger print at all. Though when I came to the USA I was selected to an extra passport check, and afterwards a TSA agent felt the need to check through my luggage. There were two of them. One that went through my luggage and the other one waiting with a look in his eyes "come on, let's go already!". Although the person that went through my luggage was not directly rude, he did have the presence of being irritated or angry, so not exactly forthcoming. It didn't scare me at all, but I did feel uneasy.

Whilst in USA I traveled by fligh from Denver - SF, Sacramento - Seattle, Seattle - NY, NY - Orlando, Orlando - Chicago without ever encountering any issues at all. No issues with pat downs, no issues with scanners or anything of the sort. Nor did I actually see any other people being submitted to it. I might have been lucky on those days, but hopefully people aren't having such issues in general.

Re:My answer

[Paul Jakma]

Amen to this, security at Schiphol is getting ridiculous and annoying. They took a bottle of water off us when we transferred, even though we had bought it airside at our departing airport. The immigration control to get to the Schengen area is also annoying - long queues. The Marchaussee check-point (customs/immigration) is slow, and the dumb phony-exploding-water security check there-after is often even slower - causing further slow-down at the Marchaussee check-point. :(

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he had a very normal experience. Millions of people fly in the US EVERY DAY, and you're treating every story like this as a statistically significant event.

I've personally taken 100+ flights since 9/11, traveling the world and as an employee who did on site work, and I never had a problem with security in the US or abroad other than the Emirates trying to confiscate my water filter as "drug paraphernalia"

I'm sorry you live in somewhat irrational fear of the possibility of being slightly uncomfortable. I imagine it means you never leave your house since you're far more likely to face questioning, jostling, or groping doing just about anything interesting or using any form of public transportation.

Re:My answer

[LVSlushdat]

HERE! HERE!! I was gonna mod you up but I decided to comment instead...

I disapprove of everything the TSA does. What they seem to do, more than anything, is to indoctrinate people into being docile toward people in uniform. I'm not a docile individual. Security theater is revolting, and I refuse to participate in any way.

ANYbody who puts up with being groped by the TSA is either a sheep, or is so desperate to get somewhere in a hurry that they ignore the fact that an abortion like the TSA (or the IRS also, for that matter) has NO business in an .. allegedly free .. country like the United States. The tactics these organizations (and MANY others in todays "government") use have NO basis in the Constitution and are sickening to anyone who loves this country and detests where it is headed.. I'm a 63 y/o Vietnam veteran and the last time I flew was in Sept 2003, and based on that experience, I've clearly concluded I'm done with flying on commercial airlines.. My experience was, admittedly, not as bad as the horror stories I've read since then, but it was enough to show me that I'm not going to tolerate ANY abuse from people who have no business in a police-like uniforn, and rather should be peddling hamburgers at McDonalds.. Everytime I hear of someone standing up to these thugs, I feel there may still be *some* hope for America.

Runaway1956, I salute you!!!

Re:My answer

[pmc]

That's true - the Spanish speakers.

And your dictionary compilers:

America

1 either continent (North America or S. America) of the western hemisphere
2 or the Americas the lands of the western hemisphere including North, Central, & S. America & the W. Indies
3 United States of America

from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/america

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

TSA experiences varies, not due to my own personal tolerances but TSA are people, and each TSA location has its own culture.
In Atlanta, the agents are mainly bored and want you to go through as efficiently and fast as possible. I feel more pressure by the people behind me wanting me and others in front to hurry up. It feels like I'm in the middle of a car traffic.
In Miami, the checkpoint is terrible with long lines, and the agents get annoyed at this too. It's an issue of infrastructure, but they don't take it on flyers. They may get annoyed at non-english speakers because it causes delay.
In Colorado, the agents are a bit better than Atlanta and don't treat you like cattle.
In Arizona, where I opted for a pat down, they seemed grouchy with a "whatever" attitude. That was the first time they've told me to empty my pockets, including my wallet. Before AZ, I've always had my wallet on. They were a little bitchy.
In Kansas, the TSA agents are actually friendly and smile. They even engage in small talk like two strangers normally would while waiting in line. That was my best experience.
In Minneapolis, the agents are actively engaged on their work. For example, they commented "traveling light, huh" with suspicion because I didn't have any carry-on luggaged (everything was checked-in), but let me in anyways. I could tell that was meant to see if I would stammer or get nervous. I think he was an ex-marine by the tone of his voice. The x-ray guys were fast and would ask some minor questions if needed, but the pace never slowed down.

Anyways, the level of invasive scanning is the same everywhere that I've traveled, including Japan (they don't use scanners) where they actually opened my bag and asked me some questions in broken English. I was carrying some expensive equipment and customs was afraid I'd be reselling inside their country. I found my entry to Europe's customs (through Spain) to be as suspicious and annoyed as AZ agents. US Customs agents (in Miami) are pretty much the same as 15-20 years ago as far as their line of questioning goes.

Anyways, I'm happy for you that you don't fly and I honestly wish I didn't either, not because of the TSA security but because flying is expensive and polluting. But the reality is, I need to fly to work and there's no choice around that. For pleasure, I ride buses or drive as much as possible.

Re:My answer

[dbIII]

"Oh belgium, man, belgium!"
http://everything2.com/title/Swear+words+from+science+fiction

Re:My answer

[ConaxConax]

They ask that question, yes.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

do you think people would publish an excellent experience at TSA? People like to complain, and twitter is a modern extension of that.
It's an issue of publishing bad customer service == news story.

After all, when is the last time any news organization published a story where a chain food restaurant (say, McDonald's) gave a great customer service last year?

Plus, you have confirmation bias.

Re:My answer

[Teun]

Then they are not classed 'International'.

Re:My answer

[Runaway1956]

*return salute*

I was in my senior year of high school when the last of you left Hanoi.

Re:My answer

[dbIII]

Such a thing has meant that some people I know that would be indistinguishable from God fearing Republicans took an expensive flight direct to South America to avoid any chance of getting stuck in a US airport on their way to look at condors, waterfalls etc.

They also didn't like the idea of getting their balls squeezed or exposed to ionising radiation from machines uncertified by a responsible third party.

Re:My answer

[dbIII]

No, no they pretty much all suck all the time.

I thought they were only supposed to squeeze.

Re:My answer

[ceoyoyo]

I was offered a job in Philadelphia. I turned it down. I also try not to submit to conferences in the US.

I have a common name. There have been several people with my name over the last fifteen years that the US would like to chat with, but the current one seems particularly scary. Generally my crossing the US border goes like this:

Customs: Where are you going? What are you going to do there? Oh shit! You, over there!

After that I usually get interviewed for an hour or so and then they let me go. That applies to transits through the US too, so I have to be careful when booking connecting flights.

Once recently I was driving across the border and ended up getting handcuffed on the hood of my car with thirteen freaked out border guards pointing their guns at me. Then I was hauled off to an isolation cell (left in handcuffs, handcuffs cuffed to the bench). After about half an hour a border guard walked in, said "you aren't black, are you?" and after fingerprinting let me go.

The TSA themselves are pussycats. They seem to be limited to hand searching my bags and I (up to five separate times before boarding a flight).

Yes, I have lots of redress numbers. One customs agent actually read my whole file once and remarked on it. Then said they were still going to want to see me in the special room anyway (she didn't bother to escort me there).

I try not to go to the US, unless I'm with someone I want to scare the hell out of.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't know what "other" airports you have been to, but I have been to airports in both Asia and Europe in the past few years (India, Japan, Germany, UK, etc), and NONE, no even a single one, had a screening process that is even remotely close to TSA.

Are you kidding? I visited India recently and multiple times they insisted on having me remove every single piece of electronic equipment from my carry-on bag, including camera lenses, and put them into a separate bin for the scanner. It took about 20 additional minutes for me to get through the screening process just because of that one rule. Ironically they let me go through security with a full Nalgene bottle of water... I also had instances where I walked through a metal detector that went off, only to be told keep moving.

Re:My answer

[ceoyoyo]

Whoops, forgot Slashdot ate things in angle brackets. Customs line should read:

Customs: Where are you going? What are you going to do there? [scans my passport] Oh shit! [stands up with hand on his gun] You, over there! [marches me to the special room, half a step behind and to the side, gun hand free].

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Please. This is not a partisan story:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03/gadget-border-searches/
http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Court-limits-border-searches-of-laptops-4340897.php
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/mar/10/tp-court-limits-border-searches-of-electronic/
http://nhregister.com/articles/2013/03/08/life/announcements/doc513ac37fad245865930407.txt
http://www.wntp.com/article.aspx?id=b38e3b70-1d3d-43ff-aee0-f207dea377d7&catid=0

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

With a Hindu name like that I very much doubt you are an Arab.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

So then you agree that "America" is ambiguous at best and probably shouldn't be used without enough context to determine meaning?

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

You see you fail to realize that this is a US centered site. I actually have problems figuring out how you failed to realize this. The spelling is American, the grammar conventions tend to be American, the stories are 75%+ American centered. 75%+ of the users are American. Yet for some reason we have to adjust for the rest of the world here.

You will have to excuse me. I believe I am needed on some British, and some Australian sites. I believe there are some spelling errors that need to be corrected. I also plan to rant about anything that doesnt fit in with my worldview. Thank you for showing me the way.

Re:My answer

[Teancum]

I apologize on behalf of the American people. It is unfortunate that a bunch of stupid politicians got their way with reforming a perfectly good security system at airports that existed prior to September 11th, 2001 and made it much worse than it needed to be. I'm not saying that airports needed to return to a complete lack of security except for a rent-a-cop sleeping in the corner and wearing a faux uniform and "airport security" on his shoulder, but we didn't need to get this horrible agency that was created instead.

I for one would not mind if the TSA was completely disbanded as an agency, and wouldn't mind pushing for that to happen. Once you get past that bullshit agency that also equally harasses its own citizens America isn't so bad. Travel within America doesn't require you to be anally probed like it does for people passing through the borders or going into airports.

About the only excuse I can see for this agencies existence at the moment is to remind Americans that they are no longer citizens, but rather serfs who are being taxed at higher rates than medieval kings could get away with hundreds of years ago.

Re:My answer

[hey]

Yes, i really do avoid the US if possible.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

During my last 35+ trips through Schiphol (Amsterdam) my shoes were often removed. This happened more often than not during winter months.

Re:My answer

[mauriceh]

As a Canadian, whose country is ALSO part of North America:

Do you want us to come and burn down your white house again?

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in the US and while the TSA is pretty stupid, they mostly don't hassle people much. Just that lame, "shoes off, none of that outside 'exploding water' (you can buy the non-exploding kind for $5.00 a bottle inside the airport), and take your notebook computer out of its bag" stuff. Try Luanda Angola if you want to talk about being hassled. Those jackasses didn't even want to let me back OUT of their lame country without some "itinerary" (which wasn't, apparently, the one I had). Then they claimed I had two lighters in my carry on (I had none and a 5 minute argument finally showed it was the guy in front of me). Then they want you to go show them how much money you have on your person and sign a declaration that you aren't smuggling cash. That was the real nightmare place to travel to and from.

Re: My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes the horrible tsa stop the millions of people from fling every year. For my whiny other citizens.
You knew you where going to a air port. Do not dress in metal. Look at the stuff you put in you carry on. You do not want your bag searched car, bus, train. You have a medical condition that you need to communicate to the tsa. Have it neatly type out by your doctor. Can I borrow a pen and paper Really.

Funny I found the security in Europe tighter the here in the US.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Do the maths -- do you think Nazi Germany was run by toddlers?

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

The shoe thing is in response to a guy that actually put a bomb/explosive or something in the soles of his shoes. Now they X-Ray them. It might be the craziest requirement but it also one with the most direct basis in reality.

Re:My answer

[WGFCrafty]

Don't worry, you only get treated like dirt if you're disabled. You get treated like crap if you're a foreigner. You get treated like you're a terrorist if you're brown.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

You're perfectly safe from the TSA if you're a foreign traveller. It's only towards US citizens that the TSA acts like a bunch of Nazi Gestapo SS thugs.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

America is an exceedingly nationalistic term anyway. You can generally tell when someone here in the US is a moron when they refer to the place as America, totally unthinkingly, and without regard for the entire rest of both continents.

Re:My answer

[WGFCrafty]

The US is the united part of America, while there's also this continent called.. you guessed it.. America. It can be subdivided into North and South America, but if you just call it America, it's the whole you'd actually be talking about.

This is iffy. America the Beautiful is not about Panama.

Not that Panama is not beautiful, much is pristine rainforest.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I know it's like how North Korea considers itself to be THE Korea. I can see how using "America" as a shorthand in the correct context is reasonable, but the people who insist that it's always America and not the USA or something more specific regardless of context seem like nationalist chest-thumpers.

Re:My answer

[WGFCrafty]

From which country? I'm guessing Muslims (or people who "look like" a Muslim) from places like Morocco or Sri Lanka have an easier time than people flying from Mogadishu.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no continent called America! There is one called North America, and another called South America. Details, details. Thanks for showing us your wisdom.

Re:My answer

[The Second Horseman]

And it seems like Newark Liberty Airport has the worst of the worst. Almost every other airport I've been to has significantly better security personnel.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

In full opioid withdrawal, looking like I was close to death, I got asked two questions and waved through. It was harder getting into the BAHAMAS!

Never been patted down with 10 plus round trips. (20-22 individual security checks)

I'm white and my last name is blatantly Jewish, dunno if that helps.

Re:My answer

[theshowmecanuck]

First will someone please mod my first comment from this thread up out of the cellar. It shouldn't be modded down for correcting an untruth. Now to correct another person's untruth.

I am Canadian. I live in North America. I like America and most Americans but not always the governments. I am NOT American. I am Canadian. Get that through your head. And every single Canadian will say the same thing about themselves and Americans (except the idiots who think the War of 1812 is still ongoing). The whole is called 'The Americas'. Note the 's' at the end. Come to Canada and call someone American. If the aren't a tourist visiting from America, you will be flamed to your face. Most Canadians don't have a problem with Americans, and most like the country (but maybe not the governments). But it is like calling an Austrian a German because they both speak German. You will not be received favourably.

So here is your corrected geography lesson as you seem to be horribly confused and/or misinformed. In the north part of The AmericaS, is North America. It is divided into three countries: Canada, The United States of America (also known as 'America'... no 's' at the end), and Mexico. Canadians and Mexicans (who, when they are speaking English) use the terms, Canadian for Canadians, Mexican for Mexicans, and Americans for Americans, the latter of which are people who come from the United States of America. We do not call them 'United States of Americans'.

Mind you, you might just be the troll that others are accusing me of.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to have a colleague, a very white suited up white, who was a very vocal supporter of the US, TSA and DHS policies. Then he flew to the US for a rather important conference, apparently in the process got mistaken for someone on the no fly list. He went back and vowed never ever to return to that country and his ideas had changed radically based on the ridiculousness of the situation and how he was mistreated.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/per_se

Re:My answer

[redneckmother]

As a Canadian, whose country is ALSO part of North America:

Do you want us to come and burn down your white house again?

Promises, promises...

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

If you insist on using America as the name of the continent and not specify North America or South America, than proper usage would be Americas (plural not singular). There is no continent called America. There is however, one called The Americas.

America (singular) in common vernacular always refers to The United States of America. It's actually very simply and I can't figure out why people get this wrong. What is the name for people that live in Canada? Canadian. What is name for people that live in Mexico? Mexican. What is the name for people that live in The United States of America? ..........

Would you call someone from New Zealand, Australian?

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Doubtful since he would have been no more than 11 years old in 1945...

I wonder when they will feel it's safe to strike that one from the questionnaire. Are they looking for a bunch of 90 year olds to fly to the US for a Nazi party reunion and then accidentally answer this question truthfully?

Re:My answer

[mauriceh]

OK, fair enough.
We will form a committee to study this.
Sorry, but it will take a while
Also sorry, likely will have to wait until the next time some white-ass, redneck Republican is living there
And, just in case you missed it:
I am sorry.

Re:My answer

[Dekker3D]

The rage runs deep here, considering I was just parroting what I read on Wikipedia about the continents a while ago. I'd like ask you people to give my mailbox a rest by no longer repeating the same "raaaah america is only the USA" thing. I got it by now. You don't like me saying such things.

Re:My answer

[GameboyRMH]

He could have been a nazi-affiliated toddler:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

No. Slashdot is an American website hosted in America by Americans. Non-Americans are welcome, and speakers of British English are welcome to use their vernacular, but the default assumption is that you should speak Standard American English here. And in American English - as spoken by both Americans and Canadians - there is absolutely no ambiguity about what "America" means - it means the USA.

Re:My answer

[Teun]

Duh, conscripts :)

Re:My answer

[Immerman]

I would say "flying to America without transferring in the US" is pretty good context.

Re:My answer

[rthille]

Honestly, you're very unlikely to experience this sort of harassment entering the US. However, I do agree with you and hate the way my country has gone since 9/11. I wish my fellow countrymen and women were more difficult to control with fear, and that the politicians were less willing to use it.

At least we seem to be stumbling, slowly, in the right direction lately.

Re:My answer

[rthille]

Where the hell were you from 2003-2009?

Re:My answer

[longk]

Of couse. My point was that the chances of having a nasty experience during your few minutes at the border are much slimmer than having a nasty experience inside the actual country.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe because you look like an Arab and they don't want to even remotely look racist, they treat you as nice as possible to avoid any confrontation.

Re:My answer

[longk]

During my trips through Amsterdam I got a blow job more often than not. What's your point? Were authorities involved in removing your shoes?

Re:My answer

[longk]

At Hong Kong airport they never complain about my bottle of water. When flying to US they'll have a second check at the gate where they remove bottles from your hand luggage but to other destinations they simply don't seem to care.

Re:My answer

[Fnord666]

I wish my fellow countrymen and women were more difficult to control with fear,

Don't forget to include an equal measure of apathy.

Re: My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

All European *international* airports have this. Trust me on this one...

Re:My answer

[writeRight]

"none of them have any Law enforcement background" They aren't law enforcement and have no law enforcement capability, so why should that be a hiring requirement?

Re:My answer

[writeRight]

I'm guessing you haven't been to MCO. Oversized apes who can barely put sentences together.

Re:My answer

[jimicus]

Wouldn't that have excluded the former Pope?

Re:My answer

[writeRight]

"exposed to ionising radiation from machines" Those machines are voluntary, you just need to opt out. I have never been through those machines, and I am a frequent flier.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember seeing a study done by a tourism organization in the US a few months ago. They did a poll asking tourists arriving at US airports and having just gone through screening, asked if they would do it again. 63% stated that based on airport screening and the TSA bitchslap alone, they would never travel to the US again. The terrorists have done terrible things. However, they don't need to bring terror to the US any more, since the TSA are acting paid government terror proxies. Its better for the terrorists too, since they don't run the risk of getting caught, they don't have to lift a finger, and the US taxpayer picks up the cost.

Re:My answer

[WGFCrafty]

Wow.

Re:My answer

[writeRight]

They aren't really "officers". That is a little scam they play on the public. Don't feed their egos.

Re:My answer

[khallow]

This ambiguity is why I avoid using the term "America" when referring to the US. It doesn't hurt that I also avoid insulting the residents of two continents.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been to the USA, but well before 9/11. I now refuse to travel there, I work freelance I have refused work that would have required me to go there. The root cause of the TSA harassment is: power + lack_of_accountability = abuse.

This is all fuelled by the need to have an enemy, now that the ''red commies'' are no longer a threat another boojums have to be found to provide excuses for government spending and keeping the population under control. Terrorists and paedophiles are two of the current ones. I am not saying that they don't exist, but the threat is vastly exaggerated. It is more complicated than I have time for ...

That's why we created the "Terror & Sexual Abuse" agency, to ensure that travelers would be terrified of making any mistake (and thus to "follow orders") lest they be sexually abused by agents in response.

Re:My answer

[Smurf]

Use the dictionary of your choice and check the words "continent" and "country".

Well, I went one step further and used several of the dictionaries and encyclopedias of my choice and checked the word "America". Guess what I found.

From the New Oxford American (oh the irony!) Dictionary (emphasis mine):

America (also the Americas):
a landmass in the western hemisphere that consists of the continents of North and South America joined by the Isthmus of Panama. The continent was originally inhabited by American Indians and Inuits. The northeast coastline of North America was visited by Norse seamen in the 8th or 9th century, but for the modern world the continent was first reached by Christopher Columbus in 1492.
- used as a name for the United States.

Note that the definition of the landmass precedes the definition of the USA. Similar precedence will be found also in Wikipedia, Merriam-Webster, and most other authoritative sources (admittedly not all, although all will acknowledge both meanings).

And regarding the definition of "continent" you need to realize that there are at least five different definitions for that word using different criteria. You were taught a particular one that separated North and South America, but other people (in particular outside the USA) are taught other definitions and most of those don't make that distinction.

By the way, according to the CIA the conventional short name for the United States of America is "United States", not "America".

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

America refers to the United States of America. There is no continent called "America". The majority of the tech industry is based in the US. North America, South America, and Americas may be used to refer to the continents. Only dumb-ass pedants get confused when Americans talk about America.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

It's probably for political correctness. The country went from 1 extreme to the other. After September 2001, we went hyper anti Arab (or any middle eastern people to be honest.) After about 2004 we went hyper "you can't profile," which turned into just let the minorities through while giving the whites a hard time.

I say none of this to be offensive, just point out how arbitrarily the US switches from policy to policy every election year. Our law / policy makers don't care what's right or wrong, but what gets votes.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Nashville taxes, was the friendliest airport I visited, I was lost and the serif lady told me how to get to my hotel without paying to much. The big one near San Fransisco, one of the worst, my camera was robbed from me and the air "Marshall" yelled at me for letting a stranger approach my luggage. However in both case the TSA did not gave fuck about me...

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Damm you auto correct : taxes -> Texas, serif -> Sheriff....

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

damm you wine, Texas -> Tennessee

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

No, there's a specific order (as taught to us by the Animaniacs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x88Z5txBc7w):

United States, Canada, Mexico, Panama
Haiti, Jamaica, Peru,
Republic Dominican, Cuba, Carribean
Greenland, El Salvador too.
Puerto Rico, Columbia, Venezuela
Honduras, Guyana, and still,
Guatemala, Bolivia, then Argentina
And Ecuador, Chile, Brazil.
Costa Rica, Belize, Nicaragua, Bermuda
Bahamas, Tobago, San Juan,
Paraguay, Uruguay, Surinam
And French Guiana, Barbados, and Guam.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't want it anymore.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Also FWIW, I was told that the Belgian border policemen had no business telling me about the 10 year ban on entry. No such thing exists in such cases.

Cops are like that pretty much everywhere; if there isn't a law handy, they'll just make shit up.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I checked, international communities all refer to people from the United States of America as "Americans" (I've never seen this used to include Canadians or Mexicans, much less anyone from central or South America). I actually haven't seen any other term used at all. So I would say, even when coming from international communities, it's not unreasonable to expect that talking about "America" would be talking about the place where Americans live and govern.

Re:My answer

[schnell]

I'm terribly intolerant of being questioned, felt up, irradiated, or justifying my presence and/or my travel plans ... I've not flown since before 9/11/01, and probably won't again.

So you haven't actually been through airport security, but you have avoided air travel for the last 12 years based on the horror stories you read online or second hand reports?

I fly 20 or 30 times a year, domestically in the US and internationally. Never once have I been questioned about my travel plans when flying domestically, and EVERY country in the world asks you about your travel plans when you go through customs internationally. (Try flying to/from Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv sometime for the ultimate "please justify your presence here" experience.) I have never been groped in hundreds of trips through airport security, nor have I considered myself to be "irradiated" any worse than I was going to get from spending several hours at 40,000 feet.

Look, I don't like the TSA security procedures... trust me, frequent flyers who have to put up with them all the time hate them more than anyone else. It's certainly your right not to fly. But ... seriously ... it's really not as bad as you (and apparently a lot of other Slashdotters who avoid the US or air travel all together) seem to think.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny you say that because the UK was the only country that groped my balls at the border.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Give me a break. You Internet Libertarians are such self-congratulatory self-important assholes. I fly all the time and never have been groped by TSA. And neither has 99.999% of the public.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

The shoe thing is in response to a guy that actually put a bomb/explosive or something in the soles of his shoes. Now they X-Ray them.

That's my understanding also, but I don't believe explosives show up on x-rays. Go figure.

OTOH that's better than the TSA agent I read about who tested for explosives by slamming the shoes against the table, trying to detonate them I assume.

One thing to remember, the Shoe Bomber was flying into the US, he never passed through TSA security.

Re:My answer

[spasm]

The bit I love is "A yes answer may not necessarily prejudice your application" at the end..

Re:My answer

[AK Marc]

Try Schiphol, Amsterdam. I found leaving Amsterdam much more tedious than leaving Dallas (both recent flights.) Same silly body scanners and security procedures but in Dallas I didn't have to wait and staff was reasonably friendly while in Amsterdam the lines were long and staff arrogant.

Was the Amsterdam flight to the US? I found that when I connected to a non-US flight, the rules were completely different than when I connected to a US flight from the same airport. Were you being checked a second time at the gate for a flight back to the US after having gone through airport security once already? Then the second one was a TSA line, even if staffed by locals and no TSA on site. The rules for the US are different, so many places with mixed destinations will have multiple check lines. One I went through screened you, so people bought water (legal inside the US, so why not returning to he US?), but then re-screened at the gate. So if you bought a water from the shop at the gate, 10 feet away, still sealed and with the receipt, you'd have to throw it away as a security risk. And those were the TSA rules, not the local airport rules.

Finally, I do totally agree with regards to Asian airports. People still treat you like the well paying customer that you are instead of cattle that needs processing. Very refreshing.

When you indicate that "paying customer" is what "earns" you status, not being a human being, then you are part of the problem, not the solution. But yes, I found the same thing. You want cattle class, take a train. You want to be treated like a party leader, take a flight. Never fly an American carrier internationally, they are all competing on cost alone. The last time I picked a non-US carrier for a long flight, I got two meals on the flight. The American carrier offered no meals, but all the snacks you could pay for (credit card only).

Re:My answer

[CrimsonAvenger]

Don't forget to include an equal measure of apathy.

Nah, we don't really care about apathy all that much...

Re:My answer

[AK Marc]

You don't have a guarantee of a bad expereince, but a higher-than-acceptable risk of it. There are piles of cases of people who say the wrong thing and end up in jail. I had a TSA agent make a bomb joke to me. I responded "I can't respond to that" and he looked at me like I was insane, they got it, where if I'd said the same thing to him, or responded back and someoene else heard, i could go to jail. If I wasn't so paranoid, I think that could have landed me in jail. Or the guy crossing the Canadian border in a car who was ordered to "freeze" and "raise his hands" and "get down" at the same time by multiple people and went to jail for resisting arrest when he didn't comply with all three simultaneously (granted he was arguing after having inconsistent search orders given to him). It's just too easy to end up in trouble. But yes, that doesn't guarantee that 99% of people who see a TSA agent will end up in jail. Just enough of them to make you wary.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a minimum wage private store cop (assets protection), and I can assure you that suspected shoplifters receive much better treatment than airline passengers.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Can we really boycott Hollywood, the state of Florida and every bank in the US?

Re:My answer

[mkiwi]

You make the incorrect assumption that TSA people know the difference between an Arab and a Hindu name.

Re:My answer

[Jane Q. Public]

"In the USA they hire morons and idiots to work for thew TSA. none of them have any Law enforcement background and are nothing more than minimum wage private store cops that have been given far more power than they should have."

You don't honestly think that's accidental, do you?

Re:My answer

[AK Marc]

That's true - the Spanish speakers.

What gets me is The United States of Mexico is referred to simply as "Mexico" and nobody has an issue. Someone from there is "Mexican", again no issues. But repeat with USA, and everyone is in an uproar. The *only* consistent usage is to distinguish between America and "the Americas" (As your dictionary definition indicates "the Americas" is different).

Re:My answer

[HiThere]

It's not that you've been lucky. Most people get through fine most of the time. Some people have to deal with a bastard, and there are no reprecussions for the bastard acting like a bastard. But people who experience that treatment are much more likely to make a noise than people who are treated normally.

So the question is, "Are you willing to be subjected to vile treatment for no reason at the whim of someone that you have no choice over and no control over?" Some people are willing to take the chance. Some people deny that the chance exists. Some people refuse to go through the procedure. My sister, Anglo, US citizen, was only mildly abused by the TSA, but she's avoided flying ever since. (She was flying from San Francisco to Las Vegas. They detained here on the return flight. It was quite inconvenient. They didn't give a flying fuck how much trouble they were causing, or that they had no valid reason to bother her.) Now when she goes to a professional conference, she drives or takes the train. (Recent news makes taking the train a questionable way of avoiding the TSA, but so far I haven't heard any horror stories.)

Re:My answer

[MaskedSlacker]

America (singular) in common vernacular always refers to The United States of America. It's actually very simply and I can't figure out why people get this wrong. What is the name for people that live in Canada? Canadian. What is name for people that live in Mexico? Mexican. What is the name for people that live in The United States of America? ..........

The only people who get it wrong are either second language speakers of English (in which case it's not entirely their fault as other languages use the term differently) and/or people trying to make a political point that they don't like the USA (in which case they're just being childish).

Re:My answer

[Skater]

If your rail network didn't suck so much one of the companies could run an advertising campaign along the lines of "Don't like getting your balls checked for explosives or your children sexually assaulted in public? Take the train!"

Amtrak does run ads like that here (in the DC area) for the Northeast Corridor service (DC - Baltimore - Philadelphia - New York - Boston). Phrased a little more politely, of course, but they do reference the airline security. Another one parodies the traffic on the interstate (I-95) in the same corridor.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's not equally true in reverse, no matter how much you wish for it to be true, nor how eloquently you can argue it's logical validity.

It's not the US 'definition', it's the common definition. If you've heard examples otherwise, those were exceptions and not the norm.

Re:My answer

[nanospook]

Even before the TSA was around, Boston Logon airport had a reputation as a sloppy joint..

Re:My answer

[reboot246]

Mexico is officially called the United Mexican States, not the United States of Mexico. Yeah, not much difference, but we have to be accurate.

Re:My answer

[cheekyjohnson]

Oh, so the TSA wasn't at the airport you went to, then? It is my understanding that they will search you or scan you if you try to get on a plane.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

In America, North America is a continent, South America is a continent, "the Americas" refers to both, and "America" is a shortened name for the United States of America, just like "China" is short for People's Republic of China.

On the internet, however...

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Then what are Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia,
Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, French Guiana, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay, Venezuela, Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Panama?

Geography 101

They are either

"North American"
"South American" (a subset would call themselves "Central American")

People from the United States are American not because we have exclusvie domain of the title, but the full name of our country: The United States of America.

Someone from Mexico will either identify by continent or country. I.e., either as "Mexican" or - possibly - "North American".

Likewise, someone from "South Africa" can call themselves "South African" (country) or, simply "African" (continent). But someone from Botswana (clearly in the south of Africa) cannot call themselves "South African" (AFAIK - maybe they can :). They are either "African" or ... "Botswanian"???

Regardless, that is how it goes and these are the answers to your question.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Several members of Congress have had that happen- Lots of yelling but no changes.

Re:My answer

[Svartormr]

Having spent 3 hours in 4 lines in Caracas getting documents stamped, checked, restamped, rechecked, etc I'd much rather travel in the USA.

Thanks to the TSA, in 'Merica you can spend 6 hours in 4 windowless little rooms getting your arse stamped, checked, restamped, rechecked. Be careful what you ask for.

Re:My answer

[AK Marc]

Both are "Estados Unidos [de America/Mexicianos]". I'm not sure if countries set their own names officially in other languages, or if they allow them to be translated any way the speakers of the other language decide. There's not much difference between United American States and United States of America. If it were named now, it could have taken the first one, but at the time, there was no other competition for American states, as pretty much everything was still officially colonies then.

The point was the difference is lost in translation, and it's Spanish speakers that insist that their translation is more authoritative than the language's definition.

Re:My answer

[Malenx]

Was gonna spend my mod point down rating, but I decided to comment instead....

That's how you win an argument, you insult the other person if they don't agree with you.

Re:My answer

[coastwalker]

I avoid visiting our Chicago office. Fuck the TSA.

Re:My answer

[Ironchew]

When using an internationally frequented forum don't assume people are using the US 'definition' of America or that they are obligated to do so to be polite.

When using a site that implicitly (or explicitly, it's probably in the FAQ somewhere) caters to Americans, don't assume that the convention on what to call the United States in your home country is used here. It's not about being polite, it's about being expedient so people don't have to re-read your comment multiple times.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, but if Germans called themselves "The Europeans", then it would come dangerously close to sounding Imperial. "We are The Europeans - our government shall govern Europe" sort of thing.

So the reason that this question over calling the US "America" comes up - and this isn't about confusion, it's about attitude - is that the US is widely perceived around the world to be imperialistic (I'm pretty neutral on that, but it's certainly true that the perception exists, Iraq, etc). So making a land-grab for the continental title fits with that perception. And it's true: in that light, it sounds like the name "Americans" is an assertion that these are the "true Americans", and not like those others: there's a touch of arrogance.

Just to make it clear: I don't care. But it sounded like you thought this was about confusion and abbreviation, and I think it's really about perception of imperialism, which isn't as straightforward.

All the best.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, de Gaulle makes you formally enter France for some transfers. I stopped there for a transfer and had exit the building through customs to take a shuttle to one of their outer gates that was 10 minutes down the road.

Only in the country for half an hour, but I've got stamps on my visa.

Re:My answer

[ballpoint]

Deustchland probably looks as unpronounceable as Deutschland to you, but the former is while the latter isn't.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Not America, that's for fucking sure.

Re:My answer

[afxgrin]

Likely in an attempt to avert this sort of ridiculous situation. It is disgusting that France and Belgium treated this man the way they did.

Re:My answer

[Kaenneth]

Ironically, he was going to visit Detroit.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it isn't.

Also, Slashdot is an American forum with some international members. Simply put, l2english.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

mumkin kunta mahtoot ya ustadh. hataa al aan.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

You might need to use specific airline websites, such as Emirates.

Re:My answer

[awol]

regarding your experience with immigration controls, my theory is that the more strict the immigration check point the easier it is to exist in that country illegally. For example, Switzerland, you can't rent a video without the right government papers; and at these checkpoints, they look at your passport and if it looks like it might be one, they let you in. Whereas in the uk or usa, once you're in you could live there forever, so very suspicious checkpoints there. as for the guns and body armor, well that's the Americans for you :-)

Re:My answer

[jrumney]

I'm not sure about Charles de Gaulle, but Schipol has the security check at the gates, precisely because of the large number of transfers there, and the lack of security at some of the smaller airports feeding into it. It is also quite common at airports to separate arrivals and departures, with a security check to transfer in between. So this isn't just a US thing, though the US execution of it is generally poor, lacking transfer desks and requiring you to collect your baggage and check it back in.

Re:My answer

[murdocj]

Sure it can. And it can happen to you ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. The difference is that in the USA, travel is normally pretty easy. In Venezuela, it was clear that a variety of government agencies were actively trying to make sure you missed your flight.

Re:My answer

[BKX]

Exactly. The dictionary specifically says that America, used alone, refers to the USA. America, with North or South prepended to it, refer to the continents. And The Americas (plural, with the definite article), refers to both continents, together, with all countries therein. You'll note that "America" without any qualifiers, according to Webster (parse those definitions carefully), unambiguously means the United States of America.

Re:My answer

[belmolis]

They aren't investigating crimes, but they are screening for contraband and evaluating security risks, both of which are things that often done by law enforcement personnel. It's quite true that a TSA officer need not have the same training as a city cop or highway patrolman, but the problem is that these are generally people with no training or experience in any relevant area who whose training by the TSA is evidently very limited.

Re:My answer

[dbIII]

Yes, I've read a few examples of what happened when people thought they were voluntary and tried to opt out and go home instead.
You also missed the "or" before replying. Don't worry, it happens a lot here and I'll just assume you were half asleep, inebriated or in some way distracted instead of being as stupid as such a reply makes you appear.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I assume you meant conscripts, not subscripts. Also, they're 20 something. It's considered a good college job, as it's part time and night shifts pay double.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I avoid travel by airline now. I'd love to visit family and friends on the other side of the country, but just not willing to be radiated or groped by TSA. So it'll have to wait til I have a few weeks to drive it. It's only a few thousand dollars of business from me the airlines lost over the last few years.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

They are Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia,
Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, French Guiana, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay, Venezuela, Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Panama?

Did you know that the formal name for Mexico is Los Estados Unidos de Mexico? That translates into the United States of Mexico.

So, the US is not the only United States in the world, but it is the only country in the world containing the word "America" as part of its name.

Almost everyone in the world is not so obtuse as to get confused by either the terms US or America.

Now grow up. If you mean the western hemisphere, the term "Americas" will suffice. If you mean Canada, say Canada. If you mean countries in North America other than the US, you can say that too.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps they were trying to avert a potential hole in the system like I found when I traveled to Germany i the '90s. I went from the US to Frankfurt and changed planes to go to Stuttgart.

I didn't leave the terminal in Frankfurt and when I boarded the plane to Stuttgart they had no way of knowing what country I came in from. In Stuttgart I just got off the plane and left the airport without any contact with customs or border agents at all.

I could have flown in from anywhere with my carry on luggage filled with drugs or worse and nobody would have had a clue.

When I returned home, I retraced my steps but a German customs guy flipped through my passport several times presumably looking for a stamp where I entered Germany or even Europe. He finally shrugged his shoulders, stamped my passport and let me go.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

By the way, according to the CIA the conventional short name for the United States of America is "United States", not "America".

Isn't the official conventional short name 'Murica?

Re:My answer

[JabberWokky]

Okay, then, what English speaking country uses the word America to refer to the continents, or American to refer to the inhabitants of, say, Brazil?

I'm not being rhetorical... I'm seeing plenty of Canadians popping in and saying "American means somebody from the US; we call ourselves Canadians". I can vouch for the Virgin Islands (US and British) being the same way. It would seem that the common usage is that America is the US, and the citizens are Americans.

I believe there is a touch of hyper-analyzing going on here. People wanting to look scientific use H2O to refer to water. But when my wife publishes her papers, they just call them water molecules, just like all other Molecular Dynamics papers do. It's only when you're trying to be fancy that you get out of using the common terms so long as there isn't a direct ambiguity. In this case there isn't. The Americas refer to the continents, North America refers to one, South America to the other, and America refers to a country.

Re:My answer

[sirsnork]

You're missing all the fun then. Call a Canadian and American and see what happens :)

Re:My answer

[chrismcb]

Don't know what "other" airports you have been to, but I have been to airports in both Asia and Europe in the past few years (India, Japan, Germany, UK, etc),

I have also been around the world, and while I haven't visited Asia, pretty much everywhere else has the same arcane policies as the US. Although only the US insists we take our shoes off anymore. I flew back from South America and entering a domestic flight in South America they questioned the plastic, dull, point of a small tripod... but got no such questions in America. Flying through Paris I had to throw away the water bottle I received on my inbound flight. I don't like the TSA, I think it is a waste of time, money and unconstitutional. But the experience isn't much different than any other airport in the world.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

That reminds me of a stint I did in customer service while trying to pay for them diplomas.
Two grocery stores I worked at had unionized employes. Not all of them, mind you, just the really old ones. See, management had figured out a way to make sure no one else would ever get into the union, without having to try to shut it down.

Each shift had two managers, who alternated all their duties. Not on a day by day basis, but mid-duty. Therefore, anything you did was, guaranteed, always EXACTLY wrong.
-Time to do a deposit from the cash. One manager brings you the envelope and [today anyways] has you count the money at the cash, in front of the waiting lineup, so everyone can see you're honest. Then YOU have to write down the number on the envelope. As soon as you've done that, you hand him the envelope so he can si~... It's the other guy there now. What the hells were you doing? Putting a ton of money out in front of everyone? TRYING to get us held up? Why did you put down the number on the envelope? You KNOW you're not supposed to, that's for the manager to do to confirm your deposit as accurate. Why didn't you call him about it and just STARTED doing this deposit on your own?
-Dead shift, you've got nothing to do for the next while; no new customers have walked in so it'll be some time before there's a need for your cash to be open. You're handed the mop and bucket. Within seconds: What the bloody fuck are you doing with a mop? You're a cashier. Why are you trying to steal someone else's job? Gimme that damn thing and go back and wait for customers. Why aren't you cleaning the floor like I told you to? Do you just live and breathe laziness and insubordination? Tried to pawn it off to someone else now? How about we pawn off the rest of your duties and your paycheques then?

And after two months and three weeks, invariably, everyone working there gets fired with scathing reviews. You smiled too much and creeped out customers. You also didn't smile enough. You were always late because you were always punching in early in order to try and cheat an extra hour or so of pay over the week for yourself. You never punch in and out at the time we tell you [for reasons entirely unrelated to every clock in the store being up to fifteen minutes apart at any given moment]. You're insubordinate. You never listen to instructions. Do you honestly think we'd give you a glowing recommendation to the next place you decide to dirty with your so-called work ethic?

I think if that job involved more than scanning and bagging food items, I'd have been as bad as those TSA mobsters as well. At the very least its a bloody good thing that we weren't given a gun with the way that place was run.

Re:My answer

[chrismcb]

Look, I don't like the TSA security procedures... trust me, frequent flyers who have to put up with them all the time hate them more than anyone else. It's certainly your right not to fly. But ... seriously ... it's really not as bad as you (and apparently a lot of other Slashdotters who avoid the US or air travel all together) seem to think.

Yes, it is. Just because TSA employees can be nice, and the procedures "aren't that bad" doesn't mean they are good. It is unconstitutional. An invasion of our privacy, a waste of time, and a waste of money. And that is the point.
I only fly a few times a year, customs is a hit or miss. Sometimes they ask where you are going, what you are doing, many times they don't. I've had TSA ask me my destination a few times.
And every time I've opted out of the machines, I've had a hand stuck down my pants... Is that what you think is ok? Is it ok for the American government to treat all of its citizens as common criminals?

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

As a US citizen I cannot agree with you more.

But let's be specific in our finger pointing; it is the abuse of Constitutionally protected natural rights (such as warrant-less searches to name just one) that has been forced on us by the statist ruling class in DC over the years. Yes that means Democrats, and Republicans, but Democrats are the ones doing the most damage.

And of course, you lot (not specifically directed at you thephydes) voted for Obama and his elitist cabal like so many lemmings.

And don't try and give me this bullshit line of blaming everything on Bush, I am not here defending Bush and there is plenty to blame on him anyway. However Bush is not in office, your Democrat party is.

Thanks a bunch, lemmings.

"I am a free man, Lickspittle, and there's nothing you can do about it. I am the only free man on this train. The rest of you are cattle!"
-- Look it up if you don't know it assholes.

Re:My answer

[Sigg3.net]

In common tongue, perhaps. But if you read history (both before and after independence) America typically refers to the continent, in which USA is the greatest nation.

This justifies a sigh, shake your head in disappointment and mutter "laymen" or "commoners". Tsk tsk.

But of course, everyone knows where 'Americans' are from. But not if you ask them to go back to where they came from. We should just have called it New India, like we agreed to.

Re:My answer

[Sigg3.net]

But standing up to oppose will usually just delay the flight further as the TSA "investigates" the "potential threat".

Speaking as a "potential threat" on more than one occasion.

The fight should be fought on a different, legislative arena. You won't get anywhere by arguing with the extremely deluded TSA staff (they actually believe that shit).

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

With respect, that's not what s/he was doing. S/he was making the point that the criticism was unfair, because America is a perfectly legitimate name for the continent. The fact that the original comment was misinterpreted was not due to inaccuracy in the comment itself, but rather down to the reader's misunderstanding. It is not the commenter's job to ensure that the reader understands his/her own language.

PS: It's "Deutschland" not "Deustchland"

Re:My answer

[laptop006]

Odd, pretty sure that's happened to me and they simply pulled it out when stapling in the new one

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. While "America" is perhaps most commonly used to refer to the USA, it is definitely not unambiguous.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

While the demonym "American" would be odd applied to anyone who wasn't from the USA, America does in fact comprise the whole of North and South America. In a similar way, it would be odd to call someone for Great Britain a "European", but I doubt anyone would forget to put it on a map of Europe. Except Wales, fuck Wales.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

The Canadian will be the one to apologize.

Re:My answer

[Paul Jakma]

It is definitely not the case at DUB or GLA, both of which certainly handle international traffic. DUB also handles some international transfer traffic - it actually has US Immigration there that you go through /before/ boarding a US bound flight.

If it really is generally the case, then I suspect you're confused about what "European" generally means (possibly you actually mean "Schengen" area). I'm still sceptical though. Can you provide a citation? :)

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Then what are Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia,
Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, French Guiana, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay, Venezuela, Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Panama?

French Guina is part of France, it's not a country.
Canada is just Canada, and Belize is just Belize.
Mexico is officially the United Mexican States
Argentina is officially the Argentine Republic
Bolivia is officially the Plurinational State of Bolivia
Brazil is officially the Federative Republic of Brazil

The rest are all officially the Republic of ... (whatever).

Notice that none of them have the word "America" in their official name.
Notice that the words "United" and "States" DO appear in at least one country's official name other than the USA.
Thus, the only short version of "The United States of America" which is not ambiguous is "America".
Which is why people who are not complete asshats just say "America" when referring to the USA.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely the point is equally true in reverse? When using an internationally frequented forum don't assume people are using the US 'definition' of America or that they are obligated to do so to be polite. Your point about German isn't really relevant as we're not speaking 'American' in the USA; we're speaking English on a forum used by people from dozens, or probably hundreds, of countries.

Damn near everybody on the planet who speaks English, and many who do not, refer to people from the USA as "Americans". I've been to many countries and been asked if I'm an American, not a "USA'n" or some other clunky, horrible hack of a nickname. I've heard plenty of people refer to me as an "American" when speaking to each other in their native languages (yes, I'm fluent in several non-English languages). If you're going to insist on being a pedantic dickhead, then you should be aware that there is no such continent as "America"- there is a North, South, and Central America.

Re:My answer

[blind biker]

I was refused entry into Holland decades ago and while I now hold a different citizenship, I have never bothered to to try to go there again. There are so many other, more interesting and friendlier places to visit. Who wants to see boring wind mills, stinking canals and dirty old Rembrands anyway?

That's too bad because, to be honest, The Netherlands is an awesome country, and Amsterdam... is IMHO, the most interesting city in the entire world (and that's compared to some pretty interesting places like Bangkok, Seoul or Atlanta).

Also, I'll never forget the almost universal, genuine kindness of the people in Amsterdam.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

EVERY country in the world asks you about your travel plans when you go through customs internationally.

NOT TRUE, not even close.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

By the way, according to the CIA [cia.gov] the conventional short name for the United States of America is "United States", not "America".

Mexico is the United Mexican States, so the term "United States" is somewhat vague.

The point is that most people on the planet refer to people from the USA as Americans, and other than a few butthurt trolls on slashdot everybody is perfectly fine with it.

Re:My answer

[alexo]

The White House was burned by British troops.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

We're the largest single economy on the planet, the largest in history, and have the largest military. Our parent language, combining first and second speakers, is the largest.

That means we're right, you're wrong, STFU and make me a sandwich, bitch.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

So, he doesn't like reality?

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot Greenland. Racist.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to be explicit and correct, it's better to use the term "USians"

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot is de facto American, based on percentage of audience, domain registration/IP hosting in Iowa, and ownership by Dice Holdings (also in Iowa).

Welcome to America, but do understand that here, when we say "America", we mean the U.S. Try to keep up.

Re:My answer

[lsatenstein]

I haven't traveled to the USA.

The exchange rate makes it a reasonable destination, but I don't want to be treated like dirt.

===
Since GWBush, and the stupid invasive searching for some explosive that I could hide in my rectum, an explosive that could bring own a plane, I really decided that stupidity was taken to the most extreme for aircraft travel, or even train travel.

So, since 2006, I stopped visiting the USA. I did go once in the last seven years, by car, from Quebec, Canada, to Atlantic City. We were thee families, and we went for sun, sand and Casino. However, I will not be going again. I felt so bad for the average American Citizen, living more poorly than our Canadian poor. And we could see it in the housing, clothing, and general appearance (healthwise) of the poorer USA citizens.

The desire to not satisfy an inspector that delights in finding nothing dangerous in the past 7 years is a testiment to the tremendous waste of money and harassement to the average traveller.

Re:My answer

[lsatenstein]

I haven't traveled to the USA.

The exchange rate makes it a reasonable destination, but I don't want to be treated like dirt.

===
Since GWBush, and the stupid invasive searching for some explosive that I could hide in my rectum, an explosive that could not bring down a plane, I really decided that stupidity was taken to the most extreme for aircraft travel, or even train travel.

So, since 2006, I stopped visiting the USA. I did go once in the last seven years, by car, from Quebec, Canada, to Atlantic City. We were thee families, and we went for sun, sand and Casino. However, I will not be going again. I felt so bad for the average American Citizen, living more poorly than our Canadian poor. And we could see it in the housing, clothing, and general appearance (healthwise) of the poorer USA citizens.

The desire to not satisfy an inspector that delights in finding nothing dangerous in the past 7 years is a testiment to the tremendous waste of money and harassement to the average traveller.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

...When using an internationally frequented forum don't assume people are using the US 'definition' of America...

So are we then also not to assume that "Americans", when used in a derogatory manner, only applies to the citizens of the United States of America? International forums typically ignore the fact that "Americans" technically describes all people living on lands that geographically dominate one half of the entire world.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

It's all about the subject matter. You can almost never rely on literal translations. "John's car" in Spanish is "Coche de Juan." But you don't translate "Coche de Juan" to "Car of John" in English, just like you don't translate "Estados Unidos de América" to "America's United States".

Re:My answer

[AK Marc]

Which is why they are functionally identical, even though one is different than the other, which is one of the things I was asserting for why there is confusion. Whenever there is confusion, the non-native speakers should defer to the native speaker's definitions. For whatever reason, Spanish speakers refuse to do this for that subject. Maybe it's partially because there are so many bilingual speakers in The Americas that they are used to switching back and forth between languages, sometimes even within the same sentence, that they have adopted a "Spanglish" dialect that avoids false friends by redefining them to a meaning that's invalid in either "mother" language.

Re:My answer

[AK Marc]

But of course, everyone knows where 'Americans' are from.

I traveled through China with an Argentinian, and he'd introduce himself as "an American" because he thought it better than telling the truth. He insisted that he's from the continent of America, thus was American.

Re:My answer

[AK Marc]

In American English, it is unambiguous.

Re:My answer

[ultracosm]

In general, it is best not to violate whatever the destination or transit country decides are its regulations. Lots of countries are a lot stricter than the USA.

That said, I don't condone the bad TSA anecdotes cited here, nor even the necessity of a lot of the visa/immigration requirements imposed on foreign travelers. I think we'd be a lot better off if they concentrated on keeping people safe and less on dotting i's and crossing t's. (Most of the TSA workers I've encountered have been very reasonable.)

Fortunately most such incidents are newsworthy ... meaning they are infrequent enough to cause comment and interest. Most people don't encounter the blatant misbehavior described above. Most international travellers have their papers in order and go through pretty quickly.

Re:My answer

[euroq]

According to the Slashdot FAQ, this is an American forum. This is not a tribal issue of we're better than you. It's just language, which has many different dialects. The dialect here is that America refers to the USA.

Re:My answer

[euroq]

According to the Slashdot FAQ, this is an American forum. American English is used. This is not a tribal issue of we're better than you. It's just a question of language, which has many different dialects. The dialect used here is that America refers to the USA.

There's no such thing as the "US definition of America" because America has no official language or governmental entity to define such things (unlike other countries, such as how the government of France defines the language of French). But there is such a thing as American English (a dialect of English), and in American English, America refers to the USA.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that a U.S. thing?

Re:My answer

[rthille]

Was that addressed to me, or the grand-parent?

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

That makes you a... let's see... a Northern American! Just like I am a European.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

The U.S. is IN America.

There, Fixed That For You.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

I've flown from Amsterdam to Nigeria and the same thing happened. Had to throw away a new, unopened water bottle that I'd bought 30 seconds earlier from the shop next to the gate.

I now hear that while you can't bring water on a U.S. flight and have to remove your slippers, you're more than welcome to bring a knife. Totally bonkers.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

americans are morons. don't attempt to argue with them. the experience will only piss you off over their (our) blantant ignorance and stupidity,
take the presidency of george w. bush for example .. I rest my case ..

Re:My answer

[alexo]

To both.

Re:My answer

[Occams]

I stopped travelling to the USA after 911 because of the TSA nonsense. The great irony of it all is that on 911 many passengers were in desperate need of weapons and it could not have ended worse than it did if all passengers were required to be heavily armed.

Re:My answer

[Gen_Music]

Funny how everyone trying to comment on this in opposition is from the US. Lets get this straight. You are not America. You are The United States of America. As a result you are referred to as the American, much as Great Britain's people are referred to as British and PRC people are referred to as Chinese. It's not our fault that some idiot saw fit to name you after the continent that you lived on. It's probably not your fault either, but that is the reality of it. Accept it.

Many Americans have come on here and said 'We're Americans, therefore we live in America'. Let's just clear that up; it's a colloquialism. Just like calling the toilet the bog in the UK is a colloquialism. When you say 'Most people who have English as a second language make that mistake' you mean 'Most people in the US who weren't born and bred speaking our version of English didn't learn our colloquialisms'. Fair enough, but don't assume you are center of the universe, and that everyone else is wrong just because you are always right. If you look around there aren't many non-Americans that agree with you. I personally am well acquainted with Americans calling their country America, but mainly because I'm well acquainted with American media. Likewise for anyone else who thinks that, the fact is - and numerous dictionary posts have proven it - America is a landmass/continent and Americans use it as a petname for yourselves, which is probably symbolic in some way.

Yours truly,
Me.

Re:My answer

[MaskedSlacker]

Funny how everyone trying to comment on this in opposition is from the US

All the Canadians in this thread who disagree with you are probably offended by this.

When you say 'Most people who have English as a second language make that mistake' you mean 'Most people in the US who weren't born and bred speaking our version of English didn't learn our colloquialisms'

You're a lousy psychic and even worse as a reader. I didn't say that. I said

The only people who get it wrong are either second language speakers of English (in which case it's not entirely their fault as other languages use the term differently)

That's not even close to your strawman interpretation. I did not say most second language speakers get it wrong. That isn't even a logical corollary of what I said.

Don't pretend you know what I meant when you don't even know what I said.

Fair enough, but don't assume you are center of the universe, and that everyone else is wrong just because you are always right

Stop being childish. If you want to disagree with me, that's fine, but you should 1)disagree with what I actually said, not something you made up and pretended I said, and 2)skip the irrelevant personal attacks. I never said or assumed any such thing. Again you're pretending I said and meant things I did.

If you're just going to argue with strawmen don't waste my time by arguing with them under my posts. I don't need the spam in my inbox.

Re:My answer

[Gen_Music]

Erm, you use 'say'. I'm addressing posters on this page as a whole. Whilst I may have been replying to your post by pressing reply under your post, I was generally addressing the whole swathe of forum posts above you. This should have been evident from the fact that the sentence before it was 'Many Americans have come on here and said 'We're Americans, therefore we live in America'. Let's just clear that up;' I was obviously using instances which are always written in future tense. It is not a strawman as there ARE posts above that stated the instances I used or words to that effect.

If you regard this as spam, it is because your comprehension skills do not allow you to separate a generalized statement from a direct/personal one.

Re:My answer

[Fluffeh]

That's funny, my trips through Heathrow have always been great - save for one fifteen minute queue waiting to get through customs. I found the staff to be pretty efficient, though not "out of the box thinkers" for the most part. The only thing that irked me was that the folks on EU passports had ZERO lines while we had a few, which really made me want to get my EU passport.

When travelling to Ireland, I do have to admit that the customs folks were amazing (I went across via the ferry crossing from north Wales), but seriously, they were so good and friendly I was almost looking around for the complimentary whiskey during the process.

Re:My answer

[AK Marc]

There's also apparently a rule against stepping out of line and back in to [hand off sharp objects/dispose of water], so when I was watching it happen to people, one asked to take his receipt and unopened water back for a refund. He wasn't allowed to exit and re-enter the line. Nearly all the rules are bonkers. They are about making a show of protecting us, without offering any real protection. It's all insane.

Re:My answer

[dffuller]

because America is a perfectly legitimate name for the continent

Which one, North or South?

Re:My answer

[DFCollet]

Strange to say, because I do not usually find points of agreement with my neighbours to the south but....

I equally object to being called an "American" in my current country of residence. I consider it an insult. I am Canadian through and through.

An "American" is someone from the United States of America. They are proud of that, and parts of their history warrant that pride. I am proud of being a Canadian and equally parts of our history warrant such pride.

But, an "American" is not someone from either of the continents of North or South America.

Brazilians would not call themselves American. Mexicans would not call themselves American, although many would like the opportunity to do so. Peruvians would not call themselves American.

Europeans are people from Europe but try to tell that to a Frenchman, or Italian, or Brit.

Get it straight folks. An "American" is someone from the good ole U.S.ofA. for better or for worse.

Re:My answer

[Sigg3.net]

"Commoners, tsk tsk.."

On a more serious note, this may actually work in China, which is a world removed and may have trouble distinguishing the countries.

Re:My answer

[akc]

I am a British citizen.

Several years ago now, I travelled from Tokyo to Istanbul via London Heathrow airport. Despite the fact that the incoming flight was to terminal 3 (in the centre of the airport) and the outgoing flight was at terminal 4 (on the eastern edge of the airport) I remained in international territory the whole time. They had a special gate "airside" where we caught a bus to the other terminal (also "airside"). I never passed any passport control (other than the normal airline check of my passport at the boarding gate) whilst at the airport.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes and no about English. "Americans" such as myself speak an entirely different English than say, a Brit.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Belgium!
A few years ago I was used to travel a lot from Spain to Sweden. During Summer time no problem, because you could find a lot of direct flghts between Madrid and Sweden.

In Winter time I needed to make an stop in Munchen or Bruxells (only once!).

For no EU people I need to explain that you can travel all around the Schengen área without pólice control, but Sweden it's out of the Schengen área. In Munchen no problem, always very friendly policeman, sometimes speaking in Spanish and tallking about the last holidays.

But Bruxells, a French speaking island inside a Flamand mayority, I made a horrible mistake with the policemen, I adressed him in French! (My french is native because of my mother) He gave me a hard look and began to look at my Passport, controlling it page by page and making funny noises and faces as thinking that my Passport was a forgery. After 10 minutes loosing my time he let me go.

That was my first and last stop in Bruxells!

Re:My answer

[AK Marc]

Most countries are translations of the names if individually translatable (CCCP to USSR, no I'm not spelling them all out, even though I can), or translations of the sounds, if the name isn't just written the same (even if pronounced differently). Costa Rica isn't "rich coast" in English, it's "koh-sta rika", not how the native speak it, but same letters. In China, they "can't" use the same letters, and translations of words aren't available for most countries, so they went with a phoentic-based system for countries. They have since been shortened to one sylable per country (followed by "guo" for country). So a-mer-i-ca was multiple characters sometime ago, but just the second sylable lives on, mei guo. No direct relation to the country anymore, but well and distinct from the continent, or Argentina, for the guy passing himself off as meiguoren, knowing it was a lie. But a quick glance at Google indicates Argentina still retains the longer phonetic name, without guo on the end, but I didn't bother to check any real sources. And I never found anyone in China who had geography problems. There are "small" cities larger than nearly all US cities that almost nobody in the US has heard of.

Re:My answer

[RockDoctor]

But if you read history

Typical Septic Imperialism.

Why should other people waste time learning your history when you don't bother to learn your own or other people's history.

the continent, in which USA is the greatest nation.

"Biggest" != "greatest".

Unless you speak American, I guess. And since this is slashdot.org, not slashdot.us or slashdot.org.us, American is not the appropriate language to default to.

Re:My answer

[RockDoctor]

When using a site that implicitly (or explicitly, it's probably in the FAQ somewhere) caters to Americans,

It doesn't need to be in a FAQ, it's in the URL. The URL is not slashdot.org.us but slashdot.org ; so it is not explicitly anything to do with the USA, or any other country. It is a pan-national forum, explicitly.

It's not about being polite, it's about being expedient so people don't have to re-read your comment multiple times.

Being polite requires reading people's posts multiple times. All attentive consideration of someone's writing requires you, the reader, to read it multiple times. Particularly if you intend to comment upon the posting.

You may consider reading and writing on this discussion list as a trivial entertainment ; I don't.

Re:My answer

[Sigg3.net]

Typical Septic Imperialism. Why should other people waste time learning your history when you don't bother to learn your own or other people's history.

"Biggest" != "greatest". Unless you speak American, I guess. And since this is slashdot.org, not slashdot.us or slashdot.org.us, American is not the appropriate language to default to.

Sorry, I was writing on my touchphone, so I go with the easiest (read: shortest) way of writing things. Not always very accurate. I was supposed to say that "if you read history books", you'll find that America is more often the denomination of the continent (depending on the subject matter, of course, but to a greater degree than in above literature). Conversely, last semester we did have an American history book (college level) in a class on Ancient Greece, and it contained a lot of references and comparisons to "our society" and US culture, which was very amusing and really stood out.

I am Norwegian and I read Norse history before going to sleep every single evening, so I'm not really sure what you are referring to..? :D

Also you're right! I should have written "biggest", but my English can't always make up its mind, especially not when I'm sitting on the loo. I meant "of largest size". I hope my infuriating errors did not cause too much troubling bowel movements or upset. Try some septic imperialist tea.

Re:My answer

[Sigg3.net]

You are right, of course. When I visited China, we spent quite some time understanding who the famous Norwegian composer "Geu-lee-geu" (eu as in Richelieu) was. After going through our composer, we found it was Edvard Grieg:)

Perhaps he felt more important calling himself an American? Shouldn't really be necessary, depending on where you go. I've got blond hair and was treated as a movie star in a lot of places, quite bizarre. Or maybe 'freak' is more correct:P

Re:My answer

[AK Marc]

He was short and brown. I am 1.8m (5'11") and blond, so maybe he was compensating. For being a US resident at the time, and passing himself off as "American" so much, last I looked, he was back in Argentina, and I'd moved out of the US.

I'm surprised they don't just romanticize the foreigner's names more. Karaoke is ka-la-OK (ka and la being hanzi, and "OK" written as in English), and every Chinese phone/computer had english on it. In fact, when I went to an Internet cafe with a group of locals, they chatted in english/pinyin (well, unaccented so not technically pinyin, but you get the idea) because it was "easier" than using hanzi. So every computer is capable of the character set, and most people know it, even those who don't know English.

But it makes for interesting translation errors. Marcos in "Spanish" is "Mark" in English, but you can name someone Mark in Spanish or Marcos in English but if you translate Mark, Marc, Marco, or Macros to Chinese, you get the same name, so you lose all the cultural identity (if any) of the name.

That and it's amusing when the name written or spoken is impossible for a native to understand. Alaska is "a-la-si-jia" It doesn't sound close enough for someone from Alaska to recognize their own location. What would have been interesting is to have English natives give the Chinese name. "a-la-si-ke" is much closer to the English pronunciation, but who knows what that means.

Re:My answer

[Teun]

Please don't mix up security and passport checks.

This is about the 'international' area at the airport.

Re:My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Only in US do 3 parts equal more then one whole. And also; it's United States of America and not United States of Americas

Re:My answer

[jrumney]

It seems the mixup came from your original post:

you have to enter and exit the US = pass the TSA probe.

Re: My answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Please stay home! As an American, I am so embarassed by the Gestapo type of society which has become this country. I am sorry for the information because this is a beautiful place to see

It's the TSA.

[Anonymous Coward]

Security guards that the government for some reason decided were federal agents. If this were any kind of public servant (apart from police of any kind), you could expect adherence to some kind of professional standard, but you're looking at the mall cops of the state security apparatus. A joke from top to bottom.

Re:It's the TSA.

[PolygamousRanchKid]

9/11 was the final battle against the terrorists. The terrorists won.

Actually, I think it was the shoe and underwear bombers who sealed the victory of fear. Now every personal item that you dare to take with you on a plane is evaluated as to its weapon potential. Case in point, a colleague of mine got questioned at the Frankfurt airport about his Kensington lock for his SchtinkPad. The reason? He might be able to use it to strangle someone.

Soon we won't be allowed to take anything on a plane, including clothing: we will be flying buck naked . . . without any luggage. As to sick folks in wheelchairs? They will be banned altogether. I dream of a US administration that would have the wisdom to hire Bruce Schneier as a security advisor.

I have never had any problems with the TSA myself, although they have every reason to grill me. I have a US passport issued in a foreign country, and plenty of stamps that could raise alarms. I just always answer the question succinctly and politely, and then they are satisfied. As much as I disagree with the whole TSA shenanigans, the place to debate their policies is not in the security line. If you start arguing with them about your constitutional rights, you will just hold up yourself and the rest of the line.

Unfortunately, as long as this fear is there, the US government is not going to overhaul the TSA:

"Angst frisst Seele auf."

Re:It's the TSA.

[Anonymous Coward]

Having to deal with the TSA overall tends to suck. (Such that for short trips I'd rather not fly.) But in my experience it varies greatly from airport to airport. Last time I had to fly I was expecting more of a hassle at a big airport like O'Hare, but at that location they were efficient and polite in their dealings to a point where it didn't' seem that big of a problem. Had enough lines, and their agents more or less said, "Have a good day sir, don't forget your watch (in the X-ray screening box), enjoy your flight!" Seattle's SEATAC on the other hand... Ugh! Seemingly inept and a real cluster#### to the point where I'd rather not talk about it.

I think travel sites should let travelers give ratings specifically in regards to how they're treated by TSA at each airport. That way people know where to avoid if they can help it. Once those specific airports get hurt in their TSA dealings, there might be enough pushback from the airport's management in order to ensure travelers are treated better and screened in a more timely manner.

I also wonder if there's a website specifically to rate TSA at each location, with comments and feedback. It would be good for raising awareness of problem locations if it can be logged and tracked long term and in public.

Re:It's the TSA.

[Culture20]

I have never had any problems with the TSA myself, although they have every reason to grill me. I have a US passport issued in a foreign country, and plenty of stamps that could raise alarms. I just always answer the question succinctly and politely, and then they are satisfied. As much as I disagree with the whole TSA shenanigans, the place to debate their policies is not in the security line. If you start arguing with them about your constitutional rights, you will just hold up yourself and the rest of the line.

Yeah, don't make any waves. If they confiscate your medicine and only means of communication, just let them do it. You can sue them later ...if you survive.

Re:It's the TSA.

[AK Marc]

They were much better before they were nationalized. That, and at Dallas, where I lived, there was a credible option if the DFW airport was unacceptable. Fly Love Field. But that doesn't help NY, with three airports, all staffed by New Yorkers (or Newark - but NJ near NYC is worse than the rudest you hear about NYC).

Re:It's the TSA.

[oji-sama]

I think the TSA (and all other fear mongering) just proves that it is possible to lose without anyone winning.

Re:It's the TSA.

[cheekyjohnson]

If you start arguing with them about your constitutional rights, you will just hold up yourself and the rest of the line.

How dare you inconvenience me with your 'rights' nonsense!

Re:It's the TSA.

[sycodon]

When the SHTF, forget the lawyers, get the TSA first.

Re:It's the TSA.

[Phreakiture]

How about Stewart Field? I've flown out of there to avoid using Albany, and it's closer to you than it is to me.

An important lesson

[Anonymous Coward]

The importance of stories such as these, are that they open peoples eyes to a fundamental truth: The protections you think you have as an American, are only in force so long as it is convenient to those who are in power. In reality, we live in a state every bit as totalitarian as the USSR or North Korea...only that totalitarianism is selectively, and irratically enforced.

Re:An important lesson

[Anonymous Coward]

state every bit as totalitarian as the USSR or North Korea

Oh fucking please.

Re:An important lesson

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh fucking please.

Oh! Oh! Oh! Yessss!!! fucking please.

Re:An important lesson

[Paleolibertarian]

The first and last time I encountered the TSA (Toadlike Stupid Assholes) was a bad experience which I won't detail, so I no longer fly commercial. I drive wherever I go which could be a 3,200 mile round-trip to visit relatives. It takes about 2.5 days both ways out of my vacation time but I do get to see a lot of pretty country on the trip. I no longer need to put up with Toadlike Stupid Assholes wanting to question me and look in my luggage and feel my junk. I also miss out on the travel time to-from airports (at LAX it's very stressful) and I don't have to eat airport/jet plane food or listen to kids crying etc... etc...

The TSA is just one of the many violations of my god-given rights some of which are enumerated in the Bill of Rights. What really saddens me however is the sheep-like response of the majority of the public in putting up with these violations. Every time some government jack-booted thug violates a citizens rights the citizen should protest loudly to whoever will listen. But instead most of the sheeple will either knuckle under and go along to get along and be thankful he wasn't beaten or shot to death. When it happens to somebody else the sheeple sometimes laugh and make fun of the poor soul who is now in the hospital or morgue because he dared to open his mouth and protest or resisted (in the mind of the thug anyway) even slightly.

Yes. In many ways we live in a totalitarian police state. The fact that sheeple deny it is because they were mostly educated in a government school and raised by their parent sheeples. Few are the scholars who know what life would be like if the Bill of Rights were strictly enforced by placing every government thug on trial for rights violations and the agency he works for to be civilly liable for monetary damages.

http://www.ncc-1776.org/

Re:An important lesson

[Anonymous Coward]

It's true. I regularly declare my love for the Great Obama to get my rice voucher. My mandatory military service has undoubtedly strengthened our strong nation from the unwholesome capitalist designs of foul Canada.

Seriously, who modded that up?

Re:An important lesson

[WGFCrafty]

If you cannot see the difference you need some schooling. See, the United States has the power to be as authoritarian as the government decides, but can hardly be called totalitarian. The fact that you're posting that without the threat of hanging from a rope or fifteen years in a labor camp in Siberia says something.

Read "A Day in the Life of Ivan Denosovich," he spends 15 years in a prison camp for moving past the front lines in "the great patriotic war" (WWII) and was shot at and imprisoned for desertion on getting back to the front. Solzhenitsyn spent time in a Siberian camp, and got the explicit permission from Khrushchev to publish it to show the horrors Stalins cult of personality produced.

Our due process isn't perfect, but it's better than due process meaning whatever they feel like, "you do."

Re:An important lesson

[Anonymous Coward]

The degree of control over people living in N. Korea by their government is quite radical and comparing the US to them is absurd. For example if you were in N. Korea and expressed yourself concerning airport security you would be in for some severe punishment or perhaps death. And as a N. Korea citizen you would never be allowed to travel anyway. When you see the rare instances where a N. Korean is interviewed while still in N. Korea all the citizen will dare say is that they are a simple person and the wonderful, honorable, great leader would have good knowledge of such subjects. You would hear "I raise carrots. I know a little bit about carrots. But I know nothing else.".

Re:An important lesson

[crutchy]

your biggest fuck up as a nation was not overwhelmingly voting ron paul for president

now unfortunately you have to deal with the consequences of that fuck up

thankfully i'm not an american

Re:An important lesson

[crutchy]

It's funny that anyone from the west can claim that have any idea what goes on in North Korea.

You guys been watching too much CNN me thinks.

Re:An important lesson

[Sigg3.net]

This is objectively wrong, pick up ANY history book and read for yourself. Also, oppressive =! Totalitarian.

Your point is valid but it is completely lost when you allow yourself to support with arguments from lala-land.

Re:An important lesson

[Paleolibertarian]

I registered Republican just to have the privilege of voting for Ron Paul in the primary. Then at the last minute the sleaseballs who run the party at the top changed the rules to deny Ron Paul from even speaking live at the convention. Just so they could claim that Romney had unanimous support of Republicans.

Folks, if you think that things are ever going to change via the democratic system in the United States you're fools. When the party leaders won't allow any Libertarian thought to enter into the neocon brain then you'll only have neocon's to vote for.

I won't go into the process of the leadership of the Democratic Party but I would guess it's similar. Otherwise how did a socialist like O'Bama get nominated twice?

I no longer vote. It's a waste of time. I no longer contribute to mainstream party candidates. It's a waste of money. Even the Libertarian party is not immune to the contagion of greed and power seeking that permeates the U.S. political system.

Eventually the system will collapse because of all the debt. The U.S. is in decline and nothing can stop that now. My advise is to invest in gold and silver and if possible get it any yourselves out of the country to a place which treats you and your money with much more respect. Stop being slaves and sheeple.

Re:An important lesson

[crutchy]

i think son of ron paul will have a chance in 2016 because he will have the support of his father's followers, and the gop will try to censor him too but there is a point where the level of corruption required can't be hidden so they may not be able to stop him

you can be sure that president rand paul will be different but similar agenda to his old man. listening to him speak reveals aspects of ron.

not only that, you can be sure that ron will continue to advocate change for the better and he will no doubt be supporting rand and helping to drum up even more support for his nomination in 2016. maybe rand won't win in 2016, but 2020, 2024... the gop simply can't hold back libertarians forever. eventually the country will wake up and smell the shit on the bottom of the government boot doing everything it can to squash them into the dirt.

if they don't, they will be looking at a future as a developing nation, which for the rest of the world might not be so bad

WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS?

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck is up with slashdot stories ranging from crank projects (like bitcoin) to political ocmmentary?

Yes, I'm sure this is a serious issue, or maybe not. At best, it's a US problem. Either way, this isn't news for nerds. It's yet another infotainment article repeated on slashdot, where it doesn't belong. Jesus, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Re:WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS?

[Ultra64]

Why does some idiot like yourself always make the comment "hurr durr, this isn't news for nerds".

Even if it isn't "news for nerds" (and I don't see how it isn't), it's still "stuff that matters".

Re:WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS?

[Anonymous Coward]

no it isn't

Re:WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS?

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, well maybe its news for trolls,but there are plenty of those here. At least trolls are not as bad as the TSA.

Re:WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS?

[umghhh]

Some geeks have interests reaching beyond IT. This is expression of both i.e. their geekismo and their broad interests. I do not see a problem here albeit I admit the amount of IT or broader technology related articles is rather low or late. Maybe this is sign of times. The basic technology is offshored to Zamunda and the rest is too complex to be understood by an average geek and/or discussed in a popular thread. Quite frankly the others social sites for nerds are either populated by aggressive indihviduals with agendas or are bloody boring. For the geek from old good times when we were writting applications in the house and could understood how they worked within limited time that is too bad. Considering all this I think /. is still not that bad.

Re:WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why does some idiot like yourself always make the comment "hurr durr, this isn't news for nerds".

A better question, why can't you do better than a specious argument?

> Even if it isn't "news for nerds" (and I don't see how it isn't), it's still "stuff that matters".

In that case, why even pretend you can filter information into categories? You're not very bright, and it's painfully obvious for anyone who cares to see. I suspect nobody cares about your opinion all that much, so it's not news to most. Probably should go on the /. frontpage, since it's stuff and it matters, eh?

Re:WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS?

[Culture20]

Just like the reason for the prevalence of Scientology stories, the TSA ticked off nerds by harassing people carrying electronics which aren't encased in name brand plastic, searching laptops, etc. Plus there's the whole exercise in logic regarding the need for the TSA...

Re:WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS?

[LVSlushdat]

Hey Sparky...
If you don't like reading it, why don't you skip the article... SOME of us consider TSA to be a BIG problem....

Re:WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS?

[GameboyRMH]

I see geeks on Slashdot who complain about political articles in the same way as athletes who say something like "I'm not a politician" when asked how they feel about competing in $oppressive_shithole. It makes me want to facepalm at their narrow-minded focus on the practical aspects of their profession at the cost of everything else.

Re:WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS?

[AK Marc]

Then why are you here posting? If you don't like it, go away.

Re:WHERE IS NEWS FOR NERDS?

[crovira]

I was an OOP developer for about 20 years and IT development manager for about 5 until my MS become too severe and I am now on disability.

I am now using AmTrak if I possibly ban because I HATE the TSA.

Those minimum-wage knuckle-dragging troglodytes seem to delight in picking on the disabled, the weak or the sick. (If you can't walk away fast enough, you're screwed.)

Their conduct has always been disgusting.

They were idiots when I first ran into 'em in 2002 and they were still idiots last christmas.

Yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

He did make the situation worse by being an obnoxious asshole. I don't work for the TSA and would give this guy a hard problem too.

Re:Yawn

[Ultra64]

Yeah, where does he get off having a neurological condition rendering him unable to speak?

That bastard.

Re:Yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

and being informed of his god given rights, no less! shoot him on the spot!

Re:Yawn

[docmordin]

I'm normally not one for coarse language and insults, but, given that the atypical neurogenic tic disorder that the individual suffers from can lead to both life-threatening asphyxia and tachycardia, I would have to say that you are a massively apathetic twat. I hope that you never become afflicted by any debilitating condition, let alone wind up in a similar situation and encounter someone insouciant who denies you access to medicine or necessary sustenance, as I doubt you'd have the fortitude to stand up to your ilk.

Fortunately, your pococurante attitude served some purpose beyond broadcasting your own inadequacies: it spurred me to pledge several thousand dollars for this guy's legal fund.

Re:Yawn

[Gaygirlie]

it spurred me to pledge several thousand dollars for this guy's legal fund.

Glad to see some people actually being willing to stand up for others, consider yourself gaining a +1 charisma from me :)

Re:Yawn

[blind biker]

He did make the situation worse by being an obnoxious asshole. I don't work for the TSA and would give this guy a hard problem too.

There are only 1-2% psychopaths in the world - psychopaths like you. This place would be heaven if your kind were removed.

Re:Yawn

[Rich0]

Somebody close to me developed anomic aphasia recently, and I can certainly vouch for a recent finding of a UK health study - anybody who has suffered aphasia will vouch that it is one of the most debilitating disorders you can have. Aphasia is any condition that interferes with speech, and anomic aphasia basically is an inability to assign names to things (you can see an object and fully understand its deign/function/purpose, but you can't come up with the word to describe it and will not remember it even if told it).

Imagine being able to do anything normally, except communicate. This guy was fortunate that he could even write (and depriving him of a pen/paper is COMPLETELY INHUMANE - no different than putting a muzzle on somebody without such a condition). If you end up with damage in the language centers of your brain you're reduced to little more than gestures and a handful of words to communicate (the same regions govern ALL forms of language from speech to writing to sign language - no, there isn't an easy workaround), or pointing at pictures assuming a useful picture is there (and no, you can't spell words by pointing at the letters, or use any kind of symbolic representation of words, since that's the part of your brain that isn't working).

Most people who interact with somebody with aphasia assume they're mentally retarded, and treat them as such. (Not necessarily in an unkind manner, but rather by assuming that they need to be treated paternalistically and that they shouldn't be allowed to make decisions for themselves for their own sake.) While conditions that can cause aphasia can also cause other cognitive problems, they do not always do so. In general somebody with aphasia is no more or less intelligent than anyone else. However, they make poor advocates for themselves so they suffer quite a bit.

A recent episode was when the person I was talking about had to take a driving knowledge test. It was multiple choice, was computer based, and even included some pictures and recorded readings of all the questions and their answers that could be played repeatedly. However, it took about 10-15 attempts to pass the test (one per day per the state's rules, and spending about an hour to get through about a dozen questions). If you had asked them to give a free response to any of the questions they could have answered the questions verbally and satisfied you that they understood basic driving laws. However, somebody with anomic aphasia needs freedom to find words they can understand - it is very difficult for them to understand a fixed sentence just by listening to it over and over. Simply comparing the various choices to determine how they differ took many repetitions. In the end they passed both knowledge and driving examinations, but it was quite an arduous journey. It likely would not have been possible but for the fact that they had recovered quite a bit of their ability to communicate.

In general we as a society do not do a very good job accommodating those with neurlogical disorders.

Re:Yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

wow looks like we've got an Internet Rich Guy on our hands

Re:Yawn

[Culture20]

Somebody close to me developed anomic aphasia recently, and I can certainly vouch for a recent finding of a UK health study - anybody who has suffered aphasia will vouch that it is one of the most debilitating disorders you can have. Aphasia is any condition that interferes with speech, and anomic aphasia basically is an inability to assign names to things (you can see an object and fully understand its deign/function/purpose, but you can't come up with the word to describe it and will not remember it even if told it).

I assume they've figured out the "Thing that does X" trick? ie "the thing that sharpens the things you write with" for pencil sharpener.

Re:Yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately, your pococurante attitude served some purpose beyond broadcasting your own inadequacies: it spurred me to pledge several thousand dollars for this guy's legal fund.

So you're saying that trolling disabled people indirectly improves their quality of life by getting people to donate to them?

Re:Yawn

[Rich0]

I assume they've figured out the "Thing that does X" trick? ie "the thing that sharpens the things you write with" for pencil sharpener.

Sure, that works if you know "sharpen" and "pencil." The disorder applies to the names of actions just as much as the names of things.

Shortly after their stroke the person I know had a vocabulary of probably 30 words in total. Now their verbal vocabulary is fairly decent but they still get stuck on a lot of proper names, and their reading/writing is far behind. I have set them up with browser extensions to read selected text. Oh, have I mentioned just how much time I've spent helping them cope with the latest "meme" fad on social networking. Heaven forbid that people put the text in the caption field where it could actually be read by accessibility tools!

Re:Yawn

[saizai]

(OP subject here)

I'm very sorry to hear about your friend. Anomic aphasia is pretty bad; having Wernicke's would be horrifying to me. I can testify that it's frustrating enough just dealing with my mutism.

FWIW, my condition is a production problem, not aphasia. I just can't make my voice work sometimes (couple times a month, lasts a few hours). I can still sign, write, type, etc just fine so long as my arm isn't physically spasming too badly or the like, and I still have full cognition / linguistic ability / etc.

I figure that as neurological disorders go, I'm pretty lucky. There are people who have it way worse than me, and your friend's one of 'em.

Re:Yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

"pococurante"

Wow, thanks! I thought I'd never get my money's worth for my Slashdot subscription.

Re:Yawn

[WGFCrafty]

Somebody close to me developed anomic aphasia recently, and I can certainly vouch for a recent finding of a UK health study - anybody who has suffered aphasia will vouch that it is one of the most debilitating disorders you can have. Aphasia is any condition that interferes with speech, and anomic aphasia basically is an inability to assign names to things (you can see an object and fully understand its deign/function/purpose, but you can't come up with the word to describe it and will not remember it even if told it).

Imagine being able to do anything normally, except communicate. This guy was fortunate that he could even write (and depriving him of a pen/paper is COMPLETELY INHUMANE - no different than putting a muzzle on somebody without such a condition). If you end up with damage in the language centers of your brain you're reduced to little more than gestures and a handful of words to communicate (the same regions govern ALL forms of language from speech to writing to sign language - no, there isn't an easy workaround), or pointing at pictures assuming a useful picture is there (and no, you can't spell words by pointing at the letters, or use any kind of symbolic representation of words, since that's the part of your brain that isn't working).

Most people who interact with somebody with aphasia assume they're mentally retarded, and treat them as such. (Not necessarily in an unkind manner, but rather by assuming that they need to be treated paternalistically and that they shouldn't be allowed to make decisions for themselves for their own sake.) While conditions that can cause aphasia can also cause other cognitive problems, they do not always do so. In general somebody with aphasia is no more or less intelligent than anyone else. However, they make poor advocates for themselves so they suffer quite a bit.

A recent episode was when the person I was talking about had to take a driving knowledge test. It was multiple choice, was computer based, and even included some pictures and recorded readings of all the questions and their answers that could be played repeatedly. However, it took about 10-15 attempts to pass the test (one per day per the state's rules, and spending about an hour to get through about a dozen questions). If you had asked them to give a free response to any of the questions they could have answered the questions verbally and satisfied you that they understood basic driving laws. However, somebody with anomic aphasia needs freedom to find words they can understand - it is very difficult for them to understand a fixed sentence just by listening to it over and over. Simply comparing the various choices to determine how they differ took many repetitions. In the end they passed both knowledge and driving examinations, but it was quite an arduous journey. It likely would not have been possible but for the fact that they had recovered quite a bit of their ability to communicate.

In general we as a society do not do a very good job accommodating those with neurlogical disorders.

Is it from a stroke/embolism?

Re:Yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't work for the TSA....

Yet I'm convinced you're eminently qualified should you ever feel the urge to apply...

...and would give this guy a hard problem too.

...because you're quite self-evidently a prick.

Re:Yawn

[Branciforte]

I know the guy in question. He is definitely not an obnoxious asshole.

There are many situations in life where we decide that convenience is more important than principles. I tend to do this a lot, because I think I want to sail through the small stuff, so it won't hold me back from the bigger principles. More than most, Sai tends to stand up for principles, because in aggregate they do hold us back, in ways we might overlook. This makes Sai come off as a bit angular to those people who "just want to do their job", even though they don't fully grasp what their job is.

So, I do understand how someone glancing through the issue could say, "oh, he's just causing trouble". But that is not the case here.

Re:Yawn

[sjames]

Yes, I need the ...something.. you something er um something with them.

In less severe cases, sufferers will use circumlocutions successfully.

Re:Yawn

[Rich0]

Is it from a stroke/embolism?

In this case, yes - a stroke. That is probably the most common cause of this problem. I'm sure there are others.

Being so close to somebody with a disorder like this (and a few other ones that are less prominent) has really helped me to appreciate just how complex the brain is, and really made me rethink just what it means to be intelligent/etc. I used to think of the brain as a black box - just a big lump of gray matter that had inputs and outputs. The reality is that various regions of the brain are remarkably specialized, and intelligence is really the sum total of hundreds or thousands of distinct mental abilities working in concert.

The difference between somebody who is completely nonfunctional and a genius isn't a line - it is an n-dimensional space within which every person is a point (at any moment in time).

Knowing anybody who has to deal with these kinds of problems really gives you an appreciation of just how fortunate we are to be able to banter about on slashdot...

Re:Yawn

[Rich0]

Yes, I need the ...something.. you something er um something with them.

In less severe cases, sufferers will use circumlocutions successfully.

Yup, though "something" having two syllables is probably a bit ambitious, and something actually is the right word to describe, well, "something."

Right after their stroke in this case it was more like:

A: I need the house.
B: Huh?
A: The house. You know.
B: Can you explain that a little more?
A: (teeth clenching after the 4th back and fourth) You know this... I NEED the house. It is blue.
B: (grasping at straws) You mean the apple on the table over there?
A: YES! (clearly perceiving that I must be an idiot to not understand them)

Re:Yawn

[Rich0]

Thanks. I was talking to them earlier and they were both horrified to hear about your story and appreciative of your concern.

I've actually been through airport security with them a few times. Each time I get rather nervous about how it would go. We actually went through security only a few months after the stroke and I was concerned that we'd get separated and the inability to communicate would get interpreted as non-cooperativeness. Fortunately the agents we dealt with handled things reasonably well, but I did feel like we were rolling the dice even attempting to go through security.

I wish you luck with your suit. There have been a few times when I've felt like I'd end up involved in some kind of ADA lawsuit but fortunately it hasn't happened. I have the greatest respect for those who are doing what they can to make life easier for others!

Don't get too discouraged by some of the other comments around here. It is amazing how many people feel that they can diagnose a medical condition by reading a news article, or for that matter watching somebody get out of their car in a handicapped parking spot.

Perhaps this is the intent, preventing expats

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone consider that Americans are being trained with fear and paranoia to not travel to foreign lands and not become familiar or dont make human and work contacts in order to prevent a South Africa or Russia style exodus when all of the Dollars come home. With the many trillions of dollars hyperinflation as in printing presses is nearly impossible to create, see Japan, but if the dollar fails as the world currency of exchange, ie: petrodollars, the mountains of repatriated currency will probably end up creating $100k loafs of bread, need based fuel rationing, and no pizza at all unless you can barter for the cheese and tomatoes or you are in charge of rationing.
So remember that you are being constrained from making the contacts needed for escaping especially with any wealth when that day comes. They killed the M3 numbers before 2008 we have no idea what is sloshing around now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply

Re:Perhaps this is the intent, preventing expats

[theshowmecanuck]

Don't have to consider. It's pretty well known. Mind you, they probably have as many people traveling to other countries as people from Europe visiting other regions (if you look at the 'countries' of Europe being akin to 'states' in the U.S.). Compare apples to apples. The U.S. is as big or bigger than Europe and has as many or more people. Traveling between states there is the almost the same as Europeans traveling between countries. Certainly the distances are the same and often more. Average Europeans I am sure don't look beyond Europe since it doesn't affect them; the same reason many Americans don't pay attention to what happens outside America.

Re:Perhaps this is the intent, preventing expats

[Alioth]

Whole of Europe population: About 700 million
European Union (which isn't the whole of Europe) population: About 500 million
United States: About 350 million

Travelling between states in the US is quite a bit different than travelling between European countries since the culture is a lot more homogenous in the US (no, not all states are the same culturally, but they are close enough; I've visited 25 of them), and everyone speaks English. Go from Spain to Greece and not only is the language different, but you can't even read what the road signs say unless you've already spent some time learning Greek - they use a different character set. Go from Britain to Spain and you go from a place where people eat stodgy well-cooked roast beef to somewhere where they eat cow's stomachs and pig's ears.

Re:Perhaps this is the intent, preventing expats

[umghhh]

this is all of topic of course. M3 is interesting of course but I looked at it once and I was surprised to see that neither there is one definition of it (Switzherland, ECB, US & UK have all different definitions and other countries have own ones too I guess). I was also surprised that ECB measured M3 as sum of money and investments with maturity up to 2y - obviously they make certain assumptions when they calculate this. I guess the theory is also that the the link between inflation and money supply (of which M3 is just indication) weak and depends for instance on the speed the supply is increasing and money is circulating in the economy. I also found it quite interesting how this all converted from creating huge inflation by printing press in Weimar Republik and now when money is largely created by a click of a mouse (or other pointing device). It is all a fake but that is oversimplified view - there are different fakes and they all have different properties, benefits and risks. I suspect how that really works is understood by nobody - there are only more and less brave individuals that operate the system. It is scary.

Re:Perhaps this is the intent, preventing expats

[Anonymous Coward]

Go from Britain to Spain and you go from a place where people eat stodgy well-cooked roast beef to somewhere where they eat cow's stomachs and pig's ears.

Isn't that the other way round..? Oh, no, wait, it's *sheep* stomach in Britain...

Re:Perhaps this is the intent, preventing expats

[flyingfsck]

"where they eat cow's stomachs and pig's ears" I think you are confusing Scotland with Spain...

Re:Perhaps this is the intent, preventing expats

[mikechant]

and you go from a place where people eat stodgy well-cooked roast beef

"Stodgy" never describes beef (or any meat). Stodgy means stuff like Yorkshire pudding (savoury) or Bread pudding, or Spotted Dick (Sweet).
Stodgy is lots of carbs.

Vacation Destination

[deskjet]

In the short term, don't worry about putting anyone off visiting the USA, the idiot dollar spending vacationer will still come, there is lot's to see and do. I'd be more worried about business and academic visitors, though only a small amount of revenue is lost per individual or event canceled, 20 years of finding somewhere better for that conference or supplier meeting or University to study/endow/partner with will make for interesting outcomes. Even the cattle class visitors will notice in the end.

ATTENTION USA CITIZENS !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Do NOT fuck with the man !! The man will chew you up and spit you out like the chicken gristle you are worth to it !!

TSA RULEZ !! Submit now !! And get those stinking shoes off grandma !!

methinks he doth protest too much

[Sad Loser]

IANAL but IAAD and there are things in this story that sound a bit odd, and looking at his web page it sounds like he has a bit of an agenda
it sounds like he has this condition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_paralysis

I am cynical about this situation from experience. Like the most anti-gay republican senators, the most vocal 'disabled' people I have met have turned out to have an interesting secret - in their case some a complete absence of disease (including one member of a paralympic team!).
For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting that this man has anything other than a genuine neurological condition. Just sayin'

Re:methinks he doth protest too much

[Anonymous Coward]

>For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting that this man has anything other than a genuine neurological condition. Just sayin'

Bullshit, that is exactly what you are suggesting, and your awkward attempts at backpedaling are ugly at best.

I note that you, for example, say that there "are things in this story that sound a bit odd", while not actually providing any examples of odd-sounding things.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am suggesting that you man up and write actual accusations if you harbor them, instead of using innuendo and "Just sayin'" to try to make them without appearing to.

Re: methinks he doth protest too much

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you talking about? He already stated IAAD (I am a douche). What more from do you need?

Re:methinks he doth protest too much

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah he probably just went and got himself a prescription for funsies.

Re:methinks he doth protest too much

[saizai]

I've added two links to the top of the page which should convince you otherwise. You may be a doctor, but you are sure as hell not *my* doctor. I have in fact had a pretty thorough medical evaluation.

Who are the real terrorists

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope the American people will start to find out, and use their Consitutional rights to do something about it soon.

Re:Who are the real terrorists

[Anonymous Coward]

I have more faith in the Yellowstone caldera doing something about it... :/

Reigning in the TSA

[caspy7]

The TSA has had almost free range to infringe on US citizen's rights without consequence (increasingly so since the terror-pocalypse).
Publicizing these type of stories is good, but how can we best see their powers reigned in and actually enforce respecting our rights?

Re:Reigning in the TSA

[Anne Thwacks]

Someone tell Ray Bellasario - it would make a great plot for a TV program.

Re:Reigning in the TSA

[Anonymous Coward]

Reign? You think they perceive themselves as royalty now. Would explain their attitudes in part. Such attitudes needs to be reined in. The French reined in their royalty with a revolution and a guillotine. Would hope the US don't need to go that far to regain the freedoms they have lost to erosion. The lines at the airport do make for good sheeple training. Judging from TSA related expenditures, certainly the citizens of the US are getting sheared over it.

Re:Reigning in the TSA

[AthanasiusKircher]

Publicizing these type of stories is good, but how can we best see their powers reigned in and actually enforce respecting our rights?

One thing to consider: just in the past few days, the TSA has finally complied with a court ruling from July 2011 that said they had illegally implemented new scanning policies without requesting public comment. EPIC has finally managed to get the TSA to set up the comment system.

Some people might consider submitting comments. The TSA probably won't listen directly. But they will become part of public record, and if a court case ever does manage to really challenge some of the TSA policies, it will be harder for courts to say, "Well, nobody seems bothered very much by all the enhanced scanning and patdowns."

By the way, from the summary:

they are over a month beyond the statutory mandate for issuing a written determination

That's NOTHING. After illegally failing to take public comments before implementing a massive change to the accepted norms for searches, federal courts directly ordered the TSA to comply with taking comments. You can still read all the news stories from July 2011, when people thought we finally had some sort of victory for privacy -- maybe the TSA would finally listen. But they did NOTHING. Presumably, they were just waiting, hoping that Americans would get used to the new searches, and they wouldn't have to deal with the problem. After a full year had passed, EPIC finally got a hearing to consider a writ of mandamus to force the order to be adhered to. (Seriously -- a federal agency refusing to implement a simple court order?? After a year of dragging their feet, the courts, if they were at all honest, should have implemented an emergency stay right then and there and shut down the scanners until the TSA complied... at a minimum. If your average citizen did something like this, they'd be tossed in jail for contempt of court.)

Months more passed, and finally the writ of mandamus was denied, because the TSA said it would finally get around to dealing with this issue by Feb.-Mar. 2013. And it seems they waited until the last few days possible to finally implement the comment system.

If you have something serious to say about this, here's your chance. It may or may not make a difference, but I think it's certainly more likely to be effective than complaining on Slashdot every week or two when a new TSA story comes along.

It's the TSA.

[Dog-Cow]

What do you expect from the Terrorist State Agency?

9/11 was the final battle against the terrorists. The terrorists won.

This proves why TSA is failing

[Aethedor]

Good security is not about making clever rules. It's about dealing properly with the exceptions of those rules. Banishing liquids from airplanes is nothing more than a rule. Its level of security depends on how you deal with the situations in which you must, or at least should, allow a bottle of liquid on an airplane. If you don't have rules for that, if your personel is not trained and aware for those situations, your whole security setup is vulnerable for social engineering and it becomes nothing more than security theater.

Re:This proves why TSA is failing

[Anonymous Coward]

Good security is not about making clever rules. It's about dealing properly with the exceptions of those rules. Banishing liquids from airplanes is nothing more than a rule. Its level of security depends on how you deal with the situations in which you must, or at least should, allow a bottle of liquid on an airplane. If you don't have rules for that, if your personel is not trained and aware for those situations, your whole security setup is vulnerable for social engineering and it becomes nothing more than security theater.

You are absolutely right. However, according to the TSA, you couldn't be more wrong. They are not failing. Ever. That is their point. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. And no, they don't give a shit if you bitch, piss, moan, yell, scream, get offended, lose your flight, get put on no-fly lists, or get arrested in the process, for they will know, no matter the cost, that they are right in their mission, duties, and actions.

And yes, you run across that exact same kind of mentality with religious zealots, just to give you an idea of just how far off the map this "business" operates.

Security is now a religion, and they're called the TSA. If you step into their church, bend over, and get used to it.

And if you think that's a bit too far-fetched, give it another decade and watch it spread like religion, in cost, size, and manipulative control.

OK, so it isn't then.

[Anonymous Coward]

but who gives a shit? Don't like it? Don't come here. Start your own slashdot.

So do something about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what I don't get about people these days.

None of you are willing to sacrifice ANYTHING or inflict ANY kind of inconvenience upon yourself to deal with the issues that need to be dealt with. You just sit there and whine and complain about everything, you make up excuses from thin air and say you've got no choice. Well, news flash, you do.

You want to get rid of the TSA?

Don't fly.

It's that simple. No, don't tell me you have to. You don't. You get enough people together and you all refuse to fly until the TSA is dismantled, and you know what'll happen? The airlines will get things changed in a hurry and the TSA will evaporate in a puff of invalid logic. It's that simple!

"Oh but it isn't and I have no choice and I need to fly and-"...

Yeah, that right there, that's the reason why the TSA still exists. You're unwilling to inconvenience yourself. None of you are. So the TSA will continue to inconvenience you instead, because they've got you by the balls (sometimes literally) and they know it. They'll continue to squeeze and squeeze, they'll expand out into the rest of the world like a cancerous tumour and then, when you find yourself in a police state and the TSA controls all major forms of travel- you'll wonder why you didn't do something sooner.

The fact that you think you have no choice is precisely what they want you to think, because that is what gives them control over you.

Cue the endless stream of "I have to fly, you're wrong, if I wish really hard I'm sure the TSA will go away all the same" replies.

Re:So do something about it.

[skiminki]

You want to get rid of the TSA?

Don't fly.

It's that simple.

No it's not. TSA is expanding to provide its services outside airports. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-elliott/the-tsa-wants-to-be-every_b_2393332.html

Re:So do something about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

You want to get rid of the TSA?

Don't fly.

It's that simple.

No it's not. TSA is expanding to provide its services outside airports. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-elliott/the-tsa-wants-to-be-every_b_2393332.html

We really should keep that on hand whenever someone posts that Slippery Slope or Scope Creep is a fallacy.

I'm hardly a Tea Partier or a even Barry Goldwater old style Republican, but those folks are right when it comes to limiting government.

Re:So do something about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

posting AC as I modded this comment. You missed the OP point and the article you cite is a "Wants to be", not is. The OP is correct that the majority of people do not like to be inconvenienced in their lives. Thus people in power use this apathy to move the bar one stop closer to total control. The sad part is, history has shown that there is not ability to hold absolute control and the longer it goes, the more invasive then typically the more violent is the release.

The writers of the Constitution understood this and wrote into the check and balances that stop that concentration of control and provides a release of pent up resentment in a society. These days, the current crop of blind mice in office choose to ignore their own sworn duty and and ignore history. My own current view is 50/50 in whether we can save ourselves with minimal bloodshed or wait till we get a future version of Syria today.

Re:So do something about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the thIng.

When a non-government business or entity breaks ADA rules, they are eviscerated in court and quickly. Here we have the Government breaking it's own rules, and it isn't doing anything to fix it. What recourse is left when the system is that broken?

Re:So do something about it.

[trout007]

When you fly opt out if the scanners. I always do and get the TSA Preflight Massage. If more people did this it would make it look like the invasion of privacy it really is. It would also make the lines so long they would have to change. So don't fly unless you must for your job and when you do opt out.

Re:So do something about it.

[djmurdoch]

None of you are willing to sacrifice ANYTHING or inflict ANY kind of inconvenience upon yourself

I think it's pretty clear from other responses that this claim is false. A true version might be, "Not enough of you are willing to sacrifice enough to do away with the TSA." Sounds pretty boring that way, doesn't it?

Personally, I avoid US airports when I can. I suspect a lot on non-Americans do that, and it is hurting American airlines, but not enough to make a difference. You guys aren't really big on acting rationally lately.

Re:So do something about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm hardly a Tea Partier or a even Barry Goldwater old style Republican, but those folks are right when it comes to limiting government.

Except the tea partiers are the folks who put them there in the first place. They suddenly saw the light when it was their little kids that got groped, now they want to restrict it to just the brown ones.

Reminds me of how they all shut up about forcing people who "look illegal" to show their papers when they caught that smoking hot (white) Russian babe. Suddenly they were the ones who might "look illegal" though they've pretty much gone back to their old ways now that everyone's forgotten the white girl and it'll only apply to brown ones.

Re:So do something about it.

[Gordonjcp]

When you fly opt out if the scanners. I always do and get the TSA Preflight Massage. If more people did this it would make it look like the invasion of privacy it really is.

Wear a kilt. Be louche as fuck. "Yeah, you just keep moving your hand up there until you meet 'resistance', that's right... Yeah, back down there, boy, I didn't tell you to stop."

Re:So do something about it.

[nitehawk214]

You want to get rid of the TSA?

Don't fly.

It's that simple.

No it's not. TSA is expanding to provide its services outside airports. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-elliott/the-tsa-wants-to-be-every_b_2393332.html

Yep you nailed it here. The airlines are losing revenue because people are sick of the TSA and taking the train or bus, or just simply driving to their destination. Thus the TSA, in order to channel as much funds from the government into private contractor hands, is expanding into all forms of mass transit. If you have to get patdown in order to get on a freaking bus people are going to go nuts.

Perhaps the end goal is to keep people from travelling altogether.

Re:So do something about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

None of you are willing to sacrifice ANYTHING or inflict ANY kind of inconvenience upon yourself to deal with the issues that need to be dealt with.

You imply that everyone here wants to completely get rid of security.

There's a difference between no security, real security and the rape-o-scope security we have now.

Re:So do something about it.

[Mitreya]

You are wrong. Someone had already pointed out that TSA is edging to cover train station and other random locations. Moreover

You get enough people together and you all refuse to fly until the TSA is dismantled, and you know what'll happen?

Yes, I know what will happen. The airline companies will get bailed out.

What we really need is the ability to choose between TSA-enabled and non-TSA airports. I'd pay extra for a service like this.

"Oh but it isn't and I have no choice and I need to fly and-"...

I am reasonably principled, but not to the point of abandoning seeing my family. Are you?

when you find yourself in a police state and the TSA controls all major forms of travel- you'll wonder why you didn't do something sooner.

You are out of your mind. Supporting ACLU, protesting, maybe suing... But not traveling is really too indirect to be considered "doing something". Airlines will get bailed out or they will go bankrupt but that won't affect TSA -- our taxes are funding TSA, not the airline profits.

Re:So do something about it.

[zippthorne]

That statement is true, but it fails to capture the real problem -

most people don't think that there is anything wrong with what the TSA is doing..

Perhaps they haven't read the constitution. Perhaps they have and think it's a reasonable tradeoff because 9/11 is such a powerful fear-button that they shut off rational examination of the issues in favor of rationalization.

I don't know the reason. I do know that I have yet to be able to convince one member of my extended family to even opt out of the rapey-scanners, and the argument I get back isn't that they're in a hurry. It's, "well, you gotta be safe." They think it makes them safe!

Re:So do something about it.

[Ramley]

You want to get rid of the TSA?

Don't fly.

It's that simple. No, don't tell me you have to. You don't. You get enough people together and you all refuse to fly until the TSA is dismantled, and you know what'll happen? The airlines will get things changed in a hurry and the TSA will evaporate in a puff of invalid logic. It's that simple!

"Oh but it isn't and I have no choice and I need to fly and-"...

I can't agree with this more. ...and I've done my part, but not only for TSA reasons.

You can be guaranteed that if *we* all stopped flying to protest the TSA, the TSA would go away because the airlines would scream 'bloody murder'. You can also be guaranteed that this will never (absolutely never) happen, because people in this day & age put their (mostly petty -- a dying family member is not petty) needs before something as important and fundamental as this.

Wouldn't it be a good start if we all could pick a day (or a week, etc.) that no one booked a plane ticket in the name of TSA protest? It would send a message, at least, but wouldn't completely stop the craziness of what is happening today. When can we have a "no fly day"?

Re:So do something about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it was scared whiney liberals and panty-twisting Republicans who enacted the TSA. The limited-government tea party folk were silent until this crap (silence isn't the same as effective cause).

Re:So do something about it.

[FuzzNugget]

At this point, they're still proliferated mostly just at airports; all other modes of transportation are minimally infiltrated.

So, yes, at this point, if everyone or the vast majority refused to fly, I'm sure the airlines would use their political connections and lobbying power to dissolve the TSA with haste.

I took a trip from the Midwest to the east coast a few weeks ago. Normally, this is about 4-5 hours of flying time and consumes 3/4 of a day with hurry-up-and-wait. But I decided I'd enough with the TSA's bullshit and took the train instead.

Not once was I stopped, groped or searched. I didn't need to go through any checkpoints or scanners. I didn't need to remove my shoes and strip half way down. I didn't have to take half the stuff out of my bag and then feverishly reassemble everything while a queue of annoyed people piled up behind me. I just bought my ticket and hopped on (what a concept, eh?) ... and it's not like I was just hopping over from one podunk hick town to another, I went through Chicago and DC, not exactly calm places with lax security protocols.

But, on the other hand, the trip took two full days and two nights of travel each way, the coach seats were good, but useless for sleeping and the sleeper car I opted for on the subsequent nights were quite expensive.

So, yes, I've sacrificed convenience, money, time and comfort to defy the TSA and their bullshit. What have you done?

Re:So do something about it.

[Dan667]

the tsa is not a business. They don't care if you fly and it is actually in their interest to discourage you from traveling. and the tsa is not going to give up their power even though their actions are completely useless.

Re:So do something about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately, 99% the terrorists are just as lazy and unwilling to put in the minimal effort required to defeat these mostly symbolic security measures. The 1% who are serious are also often too crazy to succeed.

Re:So do something about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

None of you are willing to sacrifice ANYTHING or inflict ANY kind of inconvenience upon yourself to deal with the issues that need to be dealt with. You just sit there and whine and complain about everything, you make up excuses from thin air and say you've got no choice. Well, news flash, you do.

You want to get rid of the TSA?

Don't fly.

How the hell is a handful of people not flying going to get rid of the TSA? All the number crunchers will see is the number of complaints decreasing.

What you need to do is keep up political pressure. Take five minutes to write your damned representative and complain about their outrageous behavior.

(You will now see a long list of excuses as to why this is too hard. The favorite excuse is, "but the corporations and rich people just pay off the representatives." Of course, it's very cheap to outbid you when you aren't putting any money or effort in...)

Re:So do something about it.

[cheekyjohnson]

There's a difference between no security, real security and the rape-o-scope security we have now.

Between no security and security that violates any of my rights, I'll take no security. The chance of a terrorist killing me are near zero, anyway.

It really all depends on what you meant by "real security," though. I believe securing the cockpit doors is an example of real security, and that violates no one's rights.

Re:So do something about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

My own current view is 50/50 in whether we can save ourselves with minimal bloodshed or wait till we get a future version of Syria today.

The DHS agrees with you, which is probably why they purchased over 1 billion rounds of hollow-point .223, as well as 2,700 armored vehicles recently

Re:So do something about it.

[genkernel]

You want to get rid of the TSA?

Don't fly.

It's that simple.

No, no it really isn't. Its just not that simple. For instance, at least the following conditions must be satisfied for this method to work:

1. The business must believe they have something to gain in order to be amenable to such a change. Somewhat simply, the amount of business lost due to boycott must be greater than the potential amount of lost business due to the perception that the airlines are incompetent or less safe. I'm not quite sure we are even at this point yet.

2. The lost business must be sufficient for the airlines to care about the business of people who refuse to fly on account of the TSA. Business can ignore the demands of large groups of consumers. The television networks, as well as the music industry (the latter somewhat less so than it used to be) are good examples of this with respect to bundling and advertisements. This condition will not be fulfilled, because even if all of Slashdot would boycott flying, it would not be enough pressure to equal the potential shame of having to admit the security theater is useless (and that they previously supported it).

3. The business must acknowledge the cause of their loss of business as being directly related to the TSA. The videogame industry is a good example of how an industry can refuse to acknowledge a particular cause for loss of business. In general, only a portion of the business lost due to the TSA will be recorded by the airlines as such. This compounds the difficulty of point 1 and 2, but also could be its own problem if the airlines decided the problem was due to the inconvenience of waiting in slow-moving lines to be processed (this may or may not even refer to the TSA screening). In that case, they may decide to make the TSA more efficient, rather than removing them.

If they decided that was the case, perhaps they would even be correct about most of their customers.

Additionally,

4. The government must not require the airports to keep the TSA intact. This last one is almost certainly irrelevant if the government is as bought as I think it is, but I place it here because the airlines don't technically operate the TSA if my understanding is correct. The government is currently unwilling to change its position, presumably due to the contractors who like the TSA's existence, and the political difficulty of removing an entire department.

TL;DR, so I reiterate, even if all of Slashdot would boycott flying, it would not be enough pressure to equal the potential shame of having to admit the security theater is useless. And I suspect that between corporate business and business that is indeed absolutely necessary (intercontinental travel in general is a PITA without flight) would keep some of the airlines alive enough to completely ignore anything else. Boycotting is always useful, but it isn't the be-all and end-all of consumer politics.

Re:So do something about it.

[chrismcb]

You want to get rid of the TSA?

Don't fly.

It's that simple.

No, it isn't that simple. When a small minority boycotts something... It doesn't really do anything.

Re:So do something about it.

[Sigg3.net]

That's just avoiding the problem. We should all fly less for environmental reasons, but the TSA is a symptom of fear and control culture. It must be met head on where efficient (scientific studies, better foreign policies, literary inspirational works etc).

Re:So do something about it.

[jdharm]

Amen. I haven't stepped foot on a plane in many years now. Amtrak picks me up in my home town, drops me off on the other side of the continent within a mile or two of where I want to go. Not once do I have to deal trying to get through a "security" checkpoint while trying feverishly to make sure I don't lose my kid, my bag, or my liberty, or all of the above. Like a victim of abuse, the first few times I traveled without the constant harassment I felt completely disoriented, waiting for the hand I didn't see to knock me down; I just knew the blows were coming at some point. That's just they way it is, right? Now, traveling is relaxing and enjoyable once again. I'd forgotten what it was like.

FYI, Amtrak has a pretty sweet rewards system; I haven't paid for cross-country travel since I left the airlines. Our family runs all our expenses through a Chase card that we pay off at the end of the month & earn Amtrak points (yes, I know, bad for the credit rating) and when shopping online - especially for work - I use vendors that offer Amtrak points on purchases (click-through referrals from the Amtrak site), many times multiple points per $. Google "amtrak guest rewards".

1/3 more people in Europe.

[Anonymous Coward]

The usa is not the number 1. Please stop thinking that just because it's the usa, it must be number 1.

Re:1/3 more people in Europe.

[Anonymous Coward]

But, in many things, it is!

The USA is the number 1 in incarceration rate, incarcerated population, percentage of obese people, hours of TV watched, rate of illegal drug use, car theft, reported rapes, reported murders, total crimes, number of police officers, percentage of GDP spent on healthcare (yep, not having a public healthcare system is way ore expensive than having one), use of antidepressants by women, use of pharmaceutical drugs, student loan debt, trade deficit, national debt, military spending, number of foreign military bases, and have the record for the most complicated tax system in the world, among many other firsts...

How can you say the USA is not the number 1, you insensitive clod!?

Re:1/3 more people in Europe.

[ButtonMashingGorilla]

Part of the problem with living in the US is that we occupy 9.826 million square kilometers of land, our closest neighbors being Canada and Mexico. Resting in the Gulf are some other smaller countries, but there isn't a lot of interaction. Add an ocean of separation between the US and Europe and it becomes easy to view one's self as the most important country. Ask a US Citizen who won WWII and you will likely be met with "Why America [sic] of course!"

Spelling

[Anonymous Coward]

It's reined in. http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/reign.html

War on Diginity

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

The TSA says they are all about the war on terror.
But their actions prove they are only interested in conducting a War on Diginity.

Groping children
soaking a man in his own urine
Arresting people for wearing watches with exposed gears
Arbitrary strip-searches
Detaining people armed with flash cards
Forcing mothers to drink their own breast milk
Forcing a woman to remove her nipple ring with pliers
Requiring women to remove their bras
Requiring a woman to remove the brace on her sprained ankle and then making her walk on it to prove it was sprained

The list of abuses is into the thousands. Every once in a while they get a taste of their stupidity. But it isn't anywhere near enough.

Re:War on Diginity

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, but they are all about the war on terror. You're just confused about their methods.

See, everyone knows that once a government sticks its finger in something, it's going to want to have the monopoly on it sooner or later. Now that the government is actively and openly engaged in terrorism against the US population, there soon will be no room for anyone else in that field.

(And how fitting. My CAPTCHA is "delayed")

Re:War on Diginity

[bill_mcgonigle]

The TSA's actions are entirely inconsistent with security and entirely consistent with behavioral conditioning for a population. It's only massive cognitive dissonance driven by susceptibility to induced fear that keeps it in place.

Re:War on Diginity

[dbIII]

There it goes again - hardworking Americans saving children from nipples just like the Superbowl storm in a teacup that ended up with a huge fine. There's nowhere for a TSA parody to go that they haven't done themselves already.
The nipple ring thing is cruel, demeaning, pointless and a waste of taxpayers money doing anything more than find where the metal is and let her go. Do they really think she can take down a plane with a nipple ring? Obviously not, so where is the competent management that is supposed to kick their arses and tell them to get back to work?

How does it feel to have the whole world laugh at you as you get your balls squeezed while travelling?

Logan? Not surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

Totally not surprised that it was the goons in Logan. They are the most unprofessional, ape-like dropouts that the TSA could find. I'm surprised they could read. The TSA needs to visit and observe how Heathrow or other large international airports handle security.

Its the USA!

[Anonymous Coward]

The attitudes of the TSA are but a symptom of a disease in the land of the so-called "free"; one that has dictated that I will never again travel to the USA for any reason, much as I would like to.
My other worry is the rate at which the USA is exporting this disease to other countries, mine included....
A regime will only survive if it both treats its citizens fairly and is also seen to be treating them fairly. Otherwise it will fail and fall - that may take decades or centuries but fall it will.
To paraphrase Orwell: "Everybody is free, except some are more free than others."

Comment

[Anonymous Coward]

nice information.. thanks for share.......

Why do federal employees act like dicks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously. Why?

Re:Why do federal employees act like dicks?

[Angeret]

Because...

          1. They are mandated to.
          2. They can.

Choose any 2 from the above list.

Re:Why do federal employees act like dicks?

[JBMcB]

Pournell's law of bureaucracy:

Once an organization reaches a certain size, it's primary focus changes from servicing customers or citizens to perpetuating the bureaucracy.

Yes Amtrak's better

[DABANSHEE]

For domestic travel anyway. I've traveled with Amtrak in California & across the South, coast to coast, no complaints at all. Actually I think there are still trains between Montreal & NY. What about Windsor & Detroit, Seattle & British Columbia, etc? From what I understand only freight trains run between Mexico & the US, but I assume there was passenger train travel between Mexico & the US in the past, say the late 1800s to the 1950s?

Re:Yes Amtrak's better

[PopeRatzo]

or domestic travel anyway. I've traveled with Amtrak in California & across the South, coast to coast, no complaints at all.

Likewise. I hate flying more because of the cramped and noisy conditions on the plane rather than the hassles with TSA. But I'm fortunate that I am very seldom in a hurry to get anywhere.

Have you ever taken the Empire Builder from Chicago to the Pacific Northwest? It's one of my favorites.

Re:Yes Amtrak's better

[Joe Decker]

I've done Seattle -> San Francisco Bay Area on Amtrak, and it was (by comparison with plane travel) nice. I'd thought that that route might extend to Vancouver, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Re:Yes Amtrak's better

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.amtrakcascades.com/Stations.htm

Re:Yes Amtrak's better

[budgenator]

Have you ever taken the Empire Builder from Chicago to the Pacific Northwest? It's one of my favorites.

I really wanted to I could have got on in my home town and traveled to Seattle no problem, but he return would have required a 23hr lay-over in Chicago!

Re:Yes Amtrak's better

[Joe Decker]

Ahh, cool! I'd just checked the Coast Starlight. Thanks!

Re:Yes Amtrak's better

[Anonymous Coward]

Amtrak is about as expensive as flying, and about as fast as driving, but you still don't have your car when you get there (with the exception of the even more expensive auto train). You also don't earn frequent flier miles, and probably can't even redeem frequent flier miles or rewards points easily. I frequently take mini-vacations, of 3 to 5 days long. Those wouldn't be practical at all if you have to spend 17 hours on the train there, recover from that fatigue, spend another 17hs on the train back, and still get back early enough to recover from that fatigue before going to work. That's just for a 1000 mile trip. If you want to go 2000 or 3000 miles its even worse.

Are your vacation days not valuable to you? Take something like Labor Day weekend, when you have Monday off already. Use flexible hours so that you can leave work early on Thursday. Fly somewhere. Have Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday for your vacation, visit with friends who also have the weekend off, etc. Fly back really early Tuesday. Use flexible hours so that you can go to work a few hours late on Tuesday. Now you have yourself a 4 day weekend in another part of the country for the cost of just 1 vacation day. If you were taking the train, you would still need to leave on Thursday, spend Friday on the train, and the rest of Friday resting. You would get Saturday and half of Sunday. The other half of Sunday you would be getting ready to go back and getting on the train. You would spend most of Monday on the train, and then resting, so you can go to work on Tuesday.

So now, you pay 1 vacation day, but instead of a 4 day weekend, you get a 1.5 day weekend. Plus, you come back more stressed than when you left after an ordeal like that. Those "extra" 2.5 days, are worth all the hassle of flying. The vacations don't cost much. Flying to my hometown is free, because my parents will still pay for that. Flying anywhere else can be really cheap with good airline sales. Or it can also be free, by redeeming miles/points for a free flight. I usually stay with friends or family for free. The one time I needed a hotel room, we shared one room amongst 3 people, so it wasn't that bad. See, that's how you make optimal use of vacation days, flying, and taking advantage of frequent flier / credit card reward programs.

Re:Yes Amtrak's better

[sjames]

Some routes are apparently better than others. I considered the train to go up the east coast, but in the end, it worked out to be MUCH cheaper AND faster to rent a nice car for the trip.

Re:Yes Amtrak's better

[PopeRatzo]

but he return would have required a 23hr lay-over in Chicago!

You can have a lot of fun in Chicago in 23 hours.

See, it's all perspective. If you're in a hurry, then flying's better.

Re:Yes Amtrak's better

[Ford Prefect]

There's some pretty decent views on the way, too - the train runs right next to the sea for a significant portion of the route.

Blogs as News?

[stevez67]

This is from someone's blog, not a reputable news source with fact checking. He's just another troll trying to get 15 minutes of fame to try to drum up his next consulting job.

Re:Blogs as News?

[Anonymous Coward]

nope.gif

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Unpatriotic Act

[flyingfsck]

Sorry buddy, but the USA is under a limited state of emergency and the constitution is partially suspended. Until the Patriot Act gets repealed, you should walk, not fly.

Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

He's fighting against despotism so forget about getting justice except via arms.

Loopholes

[WaffleMonster]

It certainly sounds like this guy found himself quite a loophole to effectivly circumvent the 3oz liquid restriction.

If the TSA has no way of disambiguating a "tropical energy drink" from medicine and there are no medical documentation requirements plus other laws provide privacy and accessibility protections for medical conditions then anyone can use these constraints to get any soft drinks they want thru in any amounts.

I say don't be hatin on the loophole finder for expliotin. Loopholes are fair game. Certainly less morally objectional than expliots of the cherckoff group and others who have directly profited from TSA "security theatre" egrgiously wasting US taxpayer dollars.

Re:Loopholes

[Rich0]

The whole liquid explosive thing is ridiculous. I can't imagine any kind of liquid-based explosive that would be any easier to smuggle through security than any solid-based one. The kinds of chemicals that would be needed are quite nasty - they're not the sort of things that could be confused with an energy drink. If they're concerned they could just ask the traveler to take a sip or something.

Re:Loopholes

[Jafafa Hots]

Even the experts say the liquid thing is BS.

And we go though the whole thing because some numbskulls in the UK were fantasizing about doing "something" and had some notes referring to the idea of making a bomb from liquids. We hyped these wannabees who had no real knowledge or expertise nor probably any actual intent as "terrorists" and hyped thier "plot" curing a politically convenient time to make it look like we were doing important things... when in fact the "underwear bomber" was a genius in comparison... and now we're stuck with these insane limits.

I was in line behind a guy thatn the TSA agent threatened to arrest because the ziplock he had his 3 oz bottles in wasn't the proper one-quart size, and he had a chapstick not in the bag. The TSA guy put the chapstick in the baggie so it would not be so dangerous.

Re:Loopholes

[saizai]

Rather than disambiguating "tropical energy drink" from "medically necessary liquid", I'd suggest the TSA do their job: disambiguate "explosive" from "non explosive liquid".

It shouldn't matter whether it's medical or not. If it's safe, it should be allowed to fly, period.

Re:Loopholes

[ahodgson]

I've had them do that. They chewed out my wife for having a little jar of jam or something not in a clear plastic bag. So then they put it in a clear plastic bag, which somehow made it "safe".

The purposes of the TSAs

[Stirling Newberry]

1. Make being in cattle class more acceptable. 2. Sell value add to not be subjected to it.

Only to USians.

[Anonymous Coward]

However the rest of the world, not being indoctrinated with "WE are the FREE WORLD! GOD'S OWN COUNTRY!" we know more about geography.

English was born in England, not New England.

Re:Only to USians.

[Holi]

Who the hell are any of you that you get to decide how we refer to ourselves. We are not USians where ever you got you got that please stop, Ask anyone in the world who the Americans are, and I promise you more then 90% will tell you what we already know. That the term Americans refers to the citizens of the United States of America. Try it for your self, go down to Venezuela and call them American. I bet they won't thank you.

Re:Only to USians.

[Anonymous Coward]

My first exposure to the fact that at least some people in the Americas naturally think of themselves as American was meeting someone from Colombia who quite innocently thought of herself as being from America (and wanted to emigrate to the U.S.)

Thereafter, when speaking with USians, I speak American and refer to us as Americans, but when speaking with people of other countries, I refer to us as USian. Mistakes and hubris should never go unchallenged.

Re:Only to USians.

[Sigg3.net]

Conversely, most Americans I've met state they've often said they're from Canada when they travel.

But that probably just strengthens your point. 'American' means a whole lot more than where you're from. Which is too bad, because I think most people are decent people, terrorists or not.

Re:Only to USians.

[RevDisk]

I've heard rumors of folks doing that. But I never did and never met any Americans that admitted doing so.

Re:Only to USians.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a USian and I'm A-OK with the term USian. It's more explicit and clear.

Re:Only to USians.

[radarskiy]

Which United States? Mexico?

Perhaps you are over 45 and from Brazil? Or over 60 and from Venezuela?

Re:Only to USians.

[Sigg3.net]

Perhaps they don't want to admit it to fellow countrymen?

I know people personally who did it.
When Obama was in Oslo, US citizens with residency in Norway were interviewed in a pub, talking about it being a good day to be Murican; several joined in when our topic was on the table, stating that they had lied about their citizenship in situations where it would be socially embarrassing to admit it.

They meay be too harsh, but disabled travellers

[Chrisq]

They meay be too harsh, but disabled travellers cannot be given a free pass. We all know how devious the Muslims are, and they would just pretend to be disabled if this could get them through security next time they wanted to commit mass murder.

Re:They meay be too harsh, but disabled travellers

[drinkypoo]

They meay be too harsh, but disabled travellers cannot be given a free pass. We all know how devious the Muslims are, and they would just pretend to be disabled if this could get them through security next time they wanted to commit mass murder.

Right, with the mythical binary liquid explosives that can be mixed in the washroom, without a massive rig. OOOOOOKKKKKKKK

Re:They meay be too harsh, but disabled travellers

[Chrisq]

They meay be too harsh, but disabled travellers cannot be given a free pass. We all know how devious the Muslims are, and they would just pretend to be disabled if this could get them through security next time they wanted to commit mass murder.

Right, with the mythical binary liquid explosives that can be mixed in the washroom, without a massive rig. OOOOOOKKKKKKKK

They are more likely just to use conventional explosives as they have done in the many other attacks.

Re:They meay be too harsh, but disabled travellers

[saizai]

I actually agree — which is why I think that everyone's liquid should get screened the same way. They can do it, they have the machines there, they just don't.

Re:They meay be too harsh, but disabled travellers

[cheekyjohnson]

Or we could just stop being so afraid of nearly nonexistent threats and just dismantle the TSA completely.

wewontfly.com

[emil]

This is not exactly a new idea

I would beware of the donations requests.

TSA

[Anonymous Coward]

If you really want to see surprise and shock ask to see the supervisor. The request spreads like wild fire because of the concern that someone did something wrong. You are not allowed to enter the premises of the supervisor, but rather they bring the supervisor out to your location. You can see the eyes of the TSA agents following you and trying to remember if they are the ones that did something wrong. When the supervisor arrives, tell him or her that they are doing a GOOD job and then walk away.

Re:TSA

[scotts13]

Yes, the Cover Your Ass reaction. I see the exact same thing in school discipline cases; everyone needs, as their highest priority, to CYA. We live in a blame-oriented society; there are no accidents, there are no mistakes, someone has to be punished for every negative outcome. Zero tolerance. Our legal system has made us like this. Every TSA agent or school principal who irrationally hassles someone, starts doing that so they're not the one who Let Something Bad Happen.

Of course many people, who've already been made to feel powerless in their own lives, discover this authority allowing them push people around feels good. So they do more of it...

Most aboard.

[garyoa1]

Interestingly enough the T ouch S omeones A ss 24/7 crews only check planes. I guess busses don't carry enough. But trains... well they can carry a tad more than a plane. Of course they couldn't check those passengers. They'd have to re-train the conductors. Instead of shouting all aboard they'd have to say "most" aboard.

War on Whatever is Easiest

[Livius]

Dignity is only the start. It's security theatre, nothing else. Their function is to manufacture fear the same as a factory manufactures auto parts.

This is not an error or a misjudgement; causing people the maximum of harassment with the most egregious violations of legal rights and doing so with the minimum of justification is the goal. In IT terms, it's a feature, not a bug.

Anyone thinking the TSA will be reined in because of a public outcry or legal challenges is completely missing the point.

Supplemental CAC Screening, anyone?

[A10Mechanic]

I just love the TSA. They sent my CAC card back through the X-ray machine, all alone, in the little tray. It was in my wallet and had set off a wand. For those of you unfamiliar with the CAC, it's a MILITARY I.D. Card that tells people you're in the Armed Services. It has a little 'not-so-smart' metal chip and card-reader plate. Seeing my I.D. card take it's lonely journey through the x-ray machine brought tears to my eyes. Tears of laughter. And that laughter hurt them more than any indignation I might have shown.

Re:Supplemental CAC Screening, anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never had that happen but I got called out for a hand pat down in Atlanta on a return trip from Europe. I couldn't believe it happened and asked the guy what made me look suspicious. He told me that I was sweaty. I reminded him that (1) this was Atlanta and sweating was normal here, (2) I had just hauled luggage for an hour, and (3) I had just returned from a country with 1 foot of snow and had been wearing a heavy leather overcoat. He laughed and let me go.

They have been trained that sweating is because you are nervous. It can't be because you are overdressed based on where you came from.

But most of my experiences have been mild and laughable. I don't take a lot of crap from them. If I wait too long when I opt out, I start asking when are they getting to me. I had lost a travel bottle of shampoo and a female TSA got all huffy when she found it in my backpack underneath the padding. When she asked if I knew what that was, I quickly told her that it was the shampoo bottle I had lost over six months and many trips ago. I thanked her profusely, put it in my one quart bag, and watched her face drop in disappointment.

Don't let them rattle you when you know you are in the right. It is fine and costly theatre which is unproven in effectiveness. Enjoy it for theatre. :)

Re:Supplemental CAC Screening, anyone?

[RevDisk]

Only time I've been hassled by TSA was when I was on government orders, government paid ticket, using government ID. Go figure. It was fun to explain I'd have the lot of the TSA folks in attendance arrested if they took my laptop. As I didn't think they had clearances, the laptop was clearly marked as classified, and I had supporting documentation proving it was legit.

Had similar issues in Europe, but mostly due to back then I had a crypto carrier card that exempted me from any search or seizure while I was in possession of cryptographic material. Only good in NATO countries, I didn't rate one of the diplomatic passports, but it was fun at the time. I never really abused it to engage in smuggling (some folks did), but it did make life fun.

OP here.

[saizai]

I've tried to address some of the questions people raised @ http://saizai.com/tsa#FAQ If you have more, please add them as responses to this. I don't guarantee I'll answer 'em all individually, but I'll try to make sure the FAQ addresses all substantive issues raised. Cheers, Sai

Re:OP here.

[BurstElement]

Things probably went south as soon as the TSA drone looked at your passport and found only your mononym in the name field(s)...

Re:OP here.

[saizai]

Actually no, the document check was totally uneventful. The people involved in my screening never saw my ID nor knew my name.

Re:OP here.

[protest_boy]

Good luck with your FOIA. I have a TSA issued TWIC card and just for fun I decided to get access to the information they have on file related to that card (finger prints, background check results, etc.) by issuing a FOIA request. It took them 11 months to produce a laughably incomplete response which consisted of: a scan of my passport photo and a photocopy of the standard application for the TWIC. The appeal process took about another 4 months but I did eventually get (mostly) what I was looking for.

Your request is considerably more complicated than mine was. Good luck!

Re:OP here.

[saizai]

No doubt it's more complicated. However, turns out there are actually standards for reasonable response times, and they're more like a month. If they don't respond to me, I can get a court to make 'em.

Definitely not my preferred route, and I actually like the contact person I have in their FOIA office, but I'm not interested in being ignored.

Re:OP here.

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't want to disclose to the TSA your medical state, but seem perfectly happy to in great detail on the Internet.

Granted, the TSA are evil without any positive resutls, but
  the above gives me pause as to your motivations.

Re:OP here.

[saizai]

Context matters.

Disclosing it to the TSA makes me subject to discrimination and retaliation in an official context, and violates 4th amendment rights.

Disclosing it here is me trying to stand up for those rights, so that others don't have to be subjected to the same kind of mistreatment. If people weren't willing to do that, nobody would ever speak up, and everyone would continue to be abused.

Re:Diversity of sources.

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one, try to read stories from all sources, from Bullshit Mountain as well as The Lamestream Media.

Shouldn't you just title this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fighting TSA?

Save America from fascist scum: Re-elect no one. Ever.

this is embarrassing

[Anonymous Coward]

ive got to get off my ass and try to change this
i would apologize for this but i am not directly responsible
somehow i will try to have this changed

Dammam

[robbie73]

Dammam in KSA is the most pleasurable airport of all, I can only recommend. NOT!

This is why we make you take off your shoes.

[emil]

It may seem like a bit of security theater, but it's hardly the most excessive of TSA requirements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid

Re:This is why we make you take off your shoes.

[longk]

The shoes aren't checked for flight into the US. Checking flights within and from the US doesn't really do anything to prevent a future shoe bomber. It doesn't seem like theater, it IS theater.

Re:This is why we make you take off your shoes.

[Guppy]

This is why we make you take off your shoes.

Guessing that the Underwear Bomber explains why we have nude-o-scopes, too.

Sure going to be fun when the dreaded "Rectal Bomber" finally makes his move.

Re:This is why we make you take off your shoes.

[Svartormr]

Sure going to be fun when the dreaded "Rectal Bomber" finally makes his move.

He did, in Saudi Arabia I recall. Turns out his body ably shielded everyone else from the explosion. They decided it was too over-the-top to add to security theatre.

Re:This is why we make you take off your shoes.

[Cro Magnon]

Unfortunately, I get accused off terrorism AFTER I take my shoes off. :(

past time for a "Bivens" suit

[coats]

See He ought to sue the persons responsible, as individualspour encourager les autres.

Re:past time for a "Bivens" suit

[Anonymous Coward]

No, No, No - you go after the entire fucking group of scumbag rapists and pedophiles using the RICO act.

They are acting as one thugist group, which means they all hang together or be shot - I'm all for the firing squad, using blunderbusses filled with shards of fiberglass, crushed marbles, mercury and bird-shot until dead.

Time for a Bivens lawsuit

[coats]

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bivens . Basically, in cases of denial of Constitutional rights, the doctrine of sovereign immunity does not apply, and the individual bureaucrats can be held individually responsible. You might think of it as the "Nuremberg War Crimes" clause in US law...

He ought to sue those persons responsible, as individuals. Going all the way to the top. IMNHO, there is more than cause for him to do so. And he certainly has standing...

A few multi-million-dollar judgements against individual TSA agents and managers would do a lot pour encourager les autres.

Re:Time for a Bivens lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually in national security issues the government has the power to suspend the Constitution completely. You can find the concept in history as "martial law" and in various war powers legislation. As the Bill of Rights is actually part of the constitution all of your rights vanish when national security is invoked. The draft laws are a great example. In the past a drafted soldier is yanked out of his life, slapped about, trained, stationed and used as another piece of government property and normally considered expendable. It is so blatant that they call them G.I.s which means government issued. No longer the issue of dear old mom and dad you become the servile property of government. Seems to me like the government can and does easily make human rights quite alienable.

They screw the airlines over too

[dbIII]

Remember the TSA idiot that got a plane diverted to punish Cat Stevens for being a Muslim? That and other stunts cost airlines a lot but they have to put up with it just like the angry parents watching their children getting groped.

arguing with the TSA

[Anonymous Coward]

is like running in the special olympics, even if you win you are still restarded.

It's not Harassment

[Paxtez]

First of all flying is not a right, if you don't want to deal the the TSA, don't fly.

Secondly this guy has a pretty rare medical condition that is sometimes assisted by having juice.  But then he
doesn't want to provide any documentation about his condition to support his claim that he needs his juice citing
(among other things) HIPAA, which doesn't apply to the airport or TSA since they are not medical providers.

He doesn't want to purchase his juice from the concessions because they don't have his 'favorite' brands of juice
and also is carrying 3 liters of it.

So he expects anyone to be able to get by with liquids just by saying "I need my juice, for medical reasons, I'm not
going to tell you more."

While I think the no liquid rule is silly, it is the rule.  That would defeat the purpose of it.

Re:It's not Harassment

[The Second Horseman]

Yeah, except that the TSA is starting to show up - like a pretend law enforcement agency - at train and bus stations, and at highway check points (via the VIPR program). Some of the more right-wing folks in Congress were proposing to get them stripped of their uniforms and badges - since they're not Federal LFO's - and they keep trying to act like they are. And they've been "consulting' with major league sports leagues and other venues.

Re:It's not Harassment

[jo_ham]

You left out the part where he quoted the TSA's own policy (that any amount of liquid for a medical condition is allowed once it has been screened), and that he had it screened.

He doesn't expect anyone to "get by" by saying "I need my juice, for medical reasons, I'm not
going to tell you more." - He expects that the TSA will follow its own written and well documented procedure, and the previously determined rulings of the courts over what the TSA is expected to do. They have the means to screen the liquid, and their policy allows an unlimited quantity of it to be taken on board.

In other words, he wants them to follow the law as it is written. They did not do this.

Try reading the article, and also maybe the summary too. I find it helps when commenting on the story so you don't look like a moron.

Re:It's not Harassment

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but the right wingers all have secret hard ons for government control and over-reach. That's why they think everyone else needs to get by with less government. I mean, when's the last time any communist abused power or caused a violent overthrow of the country? Yeah.

Re:It's not Harassment

[ThatsMyNick]

Is walking on public roads a right? Just curious.

Re:It's not Harassment

[reboot246]

We hear that crap about "flying is not a right" and "driving is not a right" all the time, but the truth is (no matter what the criminal government says) that you have a right to travel. The means by which you travel is your choice whether it be walking, running, riding a horse, driving, flying, sailing, or skipping.

Don't give in to their lies or you may find yourself not being allowed to leave town without their permission.

Re:It's not Harassment

[cheekyjohnson]

First of all flying is not a right, if you don't want to deal the the TSA, don't fly.

Ah, so the government should be able to arbitrarily declare that the constitution no longer applies in certain areas (airports)? Because that's what's happening: they're searching people without a warrant or even a cause.

It almost sounded like you were defending security theater in that sentence. Need I remind you that the TSA is a government organization? I certain feel I have a right to not be searched and harassed by them simply because I want to get on a plane.

Re:It's not Harassment

[Paxtez]

From TFA: Why not just give up my liquids and/or tell them medical info?

Because it's a violation of my 4th amendment rights, and because the law (including TSA rules) do not require me to do so. (Not to mention, they're not HIPAA compliant)

I tried to be extremely polite throughout, even though I was pretty angry. I don't think that yelling helps anything. But there's a big difference between being polite, and giving in to an unlawful demand.

I don't believe that I should have to give up my privacy *or* my ability to bring with me liquids of my choice. Their job is simply to make sure that what I bring isn't an explosive, and I totally support that. If they want to x-ray, ETD, LCS scan, whatever, I'm perfectly cool with it.

Maybe you should have read the article...
His own question implies that he would have been allowed in with his juice if he provided the medical reason why it is needed. Without a medical reason you don't have a "medical liquid" you have a "liquid".

He can't have it both ways; you can't claim to be exempt from normal procedure based on a disability and then refuse to provide any information about it.

Also "policy" is not the same as "law".

Re:It's not Harassment

[Paxtez]

With appropriate clarification/modifiers for "walking" and "public roads", I would say yes. (For example, freeways are public, but you can't walk on them.)

Re:It's not Harassment

[Paxtez]

Ah, so the government should be able to arbitrarily declare that the constitution no longer applies in certain areas (airports)? Because that's what's happening: they're searching people without a warrant or even a cause.

It almost sounded like you were defending security theater in that sentence. Need I remind you that the TSA is a government organization? I certain feel I have a right to not be searched and harassed by them simply because I want to get on a plane.

Flying is an optional activity, you subject your self/property to search in exchange for the privilege of not having to drive/train/boat/etc.

Re:It's not Harassment

[Anonymous Coward]

Honest citizens don't want to work for TSA. So, they have to recruit whoever wants to work for them. Blame the higherups for not instituting proper screening process for the TSA employees. Also, the TSA agents have to be trained to look for exceptions - like the Military ID, medical devices etc. The question is, TSA has no way of knowing what a terrorist might use to harm the flyers. If you want to fly safely, then don't blame them. Blame their boss. Every government agency and companies have morons working for them, that does not mean they were specifically and intentionally selected to harass their customers. People who never lived in Asia, Africa and other 3rd world countries do not know what is harrassment. Go visit and liver there for a year or two, then return to enjoy the US freedom. Most people and their ancestors migrated to USA to avoid supression of their rights, yet once they are in USA start complaining. Stop and grow up.

Re:It's not Harassment

[cheekyjohnson]

Did you even listen to what I said? This is the government arbitrarily deciding that the constitution does not apply in airports, and searching everyone without a warrant or even a solid reason. All I can figure is that you don't care about the constitution at all.

Furthermore, driving a car, riding a train, and riding a boat are also all optional activities. Hell, travel in general can be an optional activity! The fact that something is an optional activity does not mean the government should be able to blatantly violate your rights in exchange for letting you have the 'privilege' of going about your business. Actually, living in a particular city is also optional; you could live elsewhere, right? So should the government be able to arbitrarily declare certain locations constitution-free zones or not? Do you even understand the implications of this?

Re:It's not Harassment

[Paxtez]

They are making no such claim. Yes they are searching everyone without a warrant / PC / RS, but you allow them to by stepping into the building, but an imposition upon the 4th amendment is hardly 'deciding that the constitution does not apply'.

There was a circuit court ruling providing an exception in the 4th Amendment for airport screenings.
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyingwithfish/2010/11/20/how-the-tsa-legally-circumvents-the-fourth-amendment/

I have no problem with the government being able to limit aspects of the constitution at certain locations/times/events/whatever within reason (we obviously are going to have different interpretations on what is reasonable), for example pretty much saying the word 'bomb' at the airport regardless of the context will most likely result in getting detaining, that seems reasonable to me.

Re:It's not Harassment

[cheekyjohnson]

but you allow them to by stepping into the building, but an imposition upon the 4th amendment is hardly 'deciding that the constitution does not apply'.

Sure it is. What else is it when the government arbitrarily decides that the constitution no longer applies simply because you want to get on a plane? I'm not giving them permission to search me; I just want to get on a plane, and they happen to be standing in my way.

There was a circuit court ruling providing an exception in the 4th Amendment for airport screenings.

I don't really care what a random court rules. Or rather, I do care, but I believe they're wrong.

It's amazing how easy it is to take advantage of people's fear after a disaster, isn't it? That's exactly what the government did after 9/11, and some of the courts are apparently on their side.

I have no problem with the government being able to limit aspects of the constitution at certain locations/times/events/whatever within reason

Until they do something you don't like, that is; then all of a sudden I'm sure you'd have a problem with the government having given itself the power to declare certain areas constitution-free zones.

I can only assume you believe the government to be made up of perfect beings who can do no wrong and can never fall to corruption; I can see no other reason you'd say such things, which I believe are ridiculously naive.

Re:It's not Harassment

[cheekyjohnson]

The question is, TSA has no way of knowing what a terrorist might use to harm the flyers.

Terrorists are a nearly nonexistent threat anyway.

If you want to fly safely, then don't blame them.

We've secured the cockpit doors and citizens are now more than happy to fight back against any would-be hijacker; that's more than enough, in my opinion.

Every government agency and companies have morons working for them, that does not mean they were specifically and intentionally selected to harass their customers.

The TSA is specifically designed to infringe upon the rights of everyone who tries to get on a plane; that is its purpose, and security theater is its excuse.

People who never lived in Asia, Africa and other 3rd world countries do not know what is harrassment. Go visit and liver there for a year or two, then return to enjoy the US freedom. Most people and their ancestors migrated to USA to avoid supression of their rights, yet once they are in USA start complaining. Stop and grow up.

So your logic is that if a situation could be worse, then that means the current situation isn't bad/is acceptable? I suppose you wouldn't mind if someone punched you in the face, then? After all, he/she could have broken your arm, and many would likely agree that having your arm broken is almost always worse than being punched in the face, so you shouldn't whine if you get punched in the face.

Re:It's not Harassment

[jo_ham]

You just made my point for me.

The law does not require him to divulge his medical information, merely to tell them that the liquids he carries are for medical use (along with the doctor's note he carries that does not go into specifics).

The TSA has a policy in place for this already - they use a screening process to check the liquids and then they are able to be taken on board.

He has absolutely no requirement (and is, in fact, protected by the law) to go into details with the TSA about what those medical issues are, nor are the TSA qualified to make a judgement on what is "medically necessary" - that determination has already been made by his doctor. All the TSA have to do is acknowledge that fact and screen the liquids.

Again, this is not something that needs to be debated. The law, and the policies laid out for the TSA already, are very clear on this.

His own "question" does not imply what you suggest - he merely states that there is no need for the TSA to make any judgement call at all. If he "lets the TSA decide" (which is against the law and against policy) maybe he gets on the plane, maybe he doesn't - maybe they decide he's faking it (clearly an agent who is marginally less qualified than a mall cop can make these sorts of medical diagnoses in an airport terminal).

Again, simple policy following was all that was required. He states "medical liquid" and demonstrates legitimacy (medic alert bracelet, doctor's letter, medic alert card etc) and they screen the liquids. End of chat. He *does not* need to go into his medical history or his reasons for requiring the liquids with the TSA at all.

No, only to non-English native speakers

[Albinoman]

Actually, the accent Americans speak today is actually mush closer to real (old) English than what the English speak. Around the time when the US was just some colonies, French influence on language had become popular among the upper classes. Never really understood the the English/French love/hate thing they have going on.

That being said, I watch shows off BBC (love QI) and they refer to us as "America" all the time.

Re:No, only to non-English native speakers

[Anonymous Coward]

Which accent? You're not American are you? American Standard was a contrived accent. I come from the upper midwest and have an accent that is strange to most other peoples. What you're thinking of was the study that showed that people of the Appalachians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_English#Origins

To note, California dialects, Northern Cities Vowel Shift, my own North Dakotan accent, etc. sound nothing like Appalachian. When I moved out to Oregon, I say (and still think) "Or-eh-gon" (as in gone), but people correct me here, as well as a Californian buddy pointed out and a Manitoban. But people in ND say it the way I say it. (It should be pronounced Or-reh-gun)
Here's two examples:
Appalachian (the real Queen's English) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03iwAY4KlIU
North Dakota: http://www.dialectsarchive.com/north-dakota-1

Re:No, only to non-English native speakers

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is an example of Old English, from the eighth century:

Hwæt! W GrDena in gerdagum
odcyninga rym gefrnon,
h æðelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scfing sceaðena ratum,
monegum mgðum meodosetla oftah.
Egsode eorl, syððan rest wearð
fasceaft funden: h æs frfre gebd,
wox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum ðh,
oð æt him ghwylc ra ymbsittendra
ofer hronrde hran scolde,
gomban gyldan: æt wæs gd cyning!
m eafera wæs æfter cenned
geong in geardum, one god sende
folce t frfre; fyrenearfe ongeat,
æt he r drugon aldorlase
lange hwle.

The French influence you are thinking of happens during the eleventh and twelfth centuries, and produces Middle English, like this thirteenth century example:

Lythe and listin, gentilmen,
          That be of frebore blode;
          I shall you tel of a gode yeman,
          His name was Robyn Hode.
  Robyn was a prude outlaw,
          [Whyles he walked on grounde;
          So curteyse an outlawe] as he was one
          Was never non founde.
  Robyn stode in Bernesdale,
          And lenyd hym to a tre;
          And bi hym stode Litell Johnn,
          A gode yeman was he.

The United States is first, lightly colonized while people are speaking Early Modern English (consider Shakespeare's). Things really start to happen in the United States, however, after the advent of Modern English, meaning that the United States has had very little impact on the evolution of the modern English language.

Re:No, only to non-English native speakers

[Anonymous Coward]

How can anyone find this informative? It's wrong!

Re:No, only to non-English native speakers

[pnutjam]

Well, England didn't start colonizing the New World until at least 300 years after your examples, so I fail to see their relevance. Much of what people think of as an English accent is due to what types of accents the BBC decided to standardize on during it's early years.

Re:No, only to non-English native speakers

[Anonymous Coward]

The examples show that the French influence cited by the first poster happened early (as you say, before New World colonisation). That French influence produced something more recognisable to modern readers (Middle English replacing Old English).

Then comes the colonisation of the New World, with subsequent differentiation between British and American accents.

The chronology shows that the whole idea that French influence caused differentiation between American and British accents is just wrong. The French influence happened much, much earlier.

TSA touches my balls a lot

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they like it, but many times when I fly in America I get my balls touched. I guess since it is free, it is a low quality ball touching, nothing like the service I get in world class cities like Zurich or Amsterdam.

The agents need to be jailed

[Anonymous Coward]

The agents in question need to be arrested and jailed for federal civil rights violations.

An old joke

[spaceyhackerlady]

Reminds me of the old joke:

Q: What's the best way to tell the difference between a Canadian and an American?

A: Casually comment that there isn't any.

...laura, proudly Canadian

Re:An old joke

[pnutjam]

Canada = America's Hat
America = Canada's Underwear

Offensive

[Anonymous Coward]

There are not many other organizations that are more offensive to civility, decency, freedom, etc..than the TSA. Most of those are historically famous. i.e. KGB, SS, etc....

This is no stretch at all. You are being groomed people.

Since we're talking about anecdotes...

[pongo000]

...I flew to Australia recently. DFW TSA was not a hassle. I got chewed out by an Auzzie customs officer for filling out my declaration in purple ink. Then, another irate officer got pissed at us stupid Americans for following the signs to the line that was indicated...he waltzed over, picked up the sign and plopped it down in the ez-pass lanes and said "You guys need to go here." Looking over at all the Auzzies and Kiwis standing in line to get into their own country (well, not the Kiwis' country, obviously, but they had to stand in line too). Then got pulled out of line, made to stand on a red line for about 15 minutes while no more than 3 dogs sniffed at our luggage, multiple passes.

Flew into LAX on stopover, no problem with TSA there either. The mm wave scanner was broken, so they just told us to pass through the metal detector. I forgot about a bottle of water in my carry-on, no big deal.

All in all, I got more grief from the Auzzies than the Americans.

One thing I did notice: People are stupid. The TSA repeatedly told us to remove EVERYTHING from our pockets. I can't tell you how many people tried to pass through without doing that, then held the fucking line up while they were put through again. I posit that there are individuals who just make trouble for themselves by not following simple directions. Yeah, I know about rebellion. Standing in line at the airport isn't the place to be rebellious.

Re:Since we're talking about anecdotes...

[Dan667]

the tsa is the problem. Get rid of the tsa that is doing nothing to improve actual security and you would have better thruput in the airport.

Re:Since we're talking about anecdotes...

[cheekyjohnson]

People are stupid. The TSA repeatedly told us to remove EVERYTHING from our pockets. I can't tell you how many people tried to pass through without doing that, then held the fucking line up while they were put through again. I posit that there are individuals who just make trouble for themselves by not following simple directions. Yeah, I know about rebellion. Standing in line at the airport isn't the place to be rebellious.

Actually, it was the TSA that was holding the line up with their nonsense, not the people who kept things in their pockets.

TSA Are Equal Opportunity Harassers

[CodeBuster]

The disabled always want to be treated equally. Well, now they can be. The harassment dispensed by the TSA at our airports is shared equally by all Americans, whether disabled or not.

Re:TSA Are Equal Opportunity Harassers

[OrangeTide]

For the disabled to be harassed equally, they would need to be tackeled to the ground when they refused to stop talking.

But all kidding aside, I think there is a real sickness in the TSA, It doesn't take long to find articles and more articles showing the TSA's abuse of disabled people.

TSA = Terrorist Shithead Association

[Anonymous Coward]

Every stinking employee, manager, supervisor and their government oversight officers need to be sent to prison for anti-american, terrorist activities.

FBI get off your fucking lazy asses, stop working for Hollywood and arrest these American Pedophilistic Rapist TSA employees.

Do your fucking job and make America safer by ridding us of this TSA Cancer.

We need to bring the hammer down on these guys

[Anonymous Coward]

"Eventually they gave it to me, but then they took it away in direct retaliation for my using it to quote US v Davis and protest their illegal search (thereby literally depriving me of speech)."

So you're saying that a government employeed agenta used force to supress your right to free speech?

There aint' a whole lot of wiggle room in the first amendment on this one. It would be interesting to see if others have suffered similar treatment by the TSA and file a class action suit.

If airlines instead hired private security to perform screening we wouldn't have as much legal power. But that government employees have grossly violated the limitations we the people have placed on the government, that means we get drag their ass into court and throw the book at them.

My only hope is that the courts respect the rule of law and our constitution more than a typical TSA agent. If not, then we really are fucked.

kayak.com

[Roger W Moore]

Does anyone know of a flight search engine that allows you to do this ?

While it will not specifically filter out transfers through a particular country it lets you manually select individual flight legs and you can filter via airline (there are a lot of other options too) so just do not use a US airline and you should be good. I use it regularly to get from Canada to CERN avoiding the US and the multi-transfer, large lay over option via Montreal that the Air Canada site will invariably pick out purely for their benefit so you fly on an Air Canada flight all the way to Geneva rather than use Swiss or Lufthansa in Europe. You may have to try a few options before you find one with a reasonable price but I've found it to be the most flexible of all the travel sites I've used (and in case you were wondering I am not in anyway associated with it!).

Its only downside is that you cannot book through their site - they just provide a link to a travel site like Travelocity or Expedia with the options to book the exact flight schedule. So you usually end up having to pay in US dollars even though you never go through the US!

Here's the main link

[AthanasiusKircher]

Sorry, the link I gave before was to the list of comments received. Here's the link to the main summary with all documents and information.

But bush tapped your phone...

[Anonymous Coward]

...so shut up.

You are an idiot.

[Brannon]

North Korea, really?

If you were in North Korea now you wouldn't have access to the internet or the ability to vote out the "totalitarian" regime every four years. You don't like the TSA, then get a bunch of people to agree with you and change the law. A democracy allows you to do that--you fucking idiot. It doesn't allow you to do that with absolutely no effort other than whining on an internet forum.

Re:You are an idiot.

[ahodgson]

Sorry, which major party can you vote for that will reverse the police state measures implemented since 9/11?

Re:You are an idiot.

[crutchy]

You could have voted for Ron Paul in 2008 or 2012.

The problem was Ron Paul needed to win by a huge majority to make it impossible for the GOP factions (Romney et. al.) to doctor the results of the primaries.

In the 2016 election, vote Rand Paul... son of Ron Paul can't possibly be as bad as the other morons running (Republican or Democratic).

Re:You are an idiot.

[charlesbakerharris]

Right. Because Ron Paul had a plausible chance of winning, AMIRITE? Did your parent poster need to spell out "which major party can you vote for that has a snowball's chance in hell of winning..." because that wasn't sufficiently obvious already?

Re:You are an idiot.

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be one of those morons that gets all your news from CNN or CNBC, AMIRITE?

Ron Paul was ignored by the media and still managed to either win or come second in many polls. He definitely had a chance of winning, else the media and other GOP nominees wouldn't have feared him.

Anyway, too late for you now... you're fucked till at least 2016, so deal with it.

Re:You are an idiot.

[ahodgson]

Can you point out where in the Republican platform they promise to unwind the police state? Even if somehow Rand Paul becomes President, I don't see where 51 Senators and several hundred Congressmen are somehow lined up to support this.

Re:You are an idiot.

[crutchy]

as president, ron paul would have the authority to repeal all national and homeland security presidential executive orders made in the past that are unconstitutional

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Directive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_directive

he would also be in a much better position to lobby legislative branch members to pass bills and increase public awareness of the unconstitutionality of certain legislation so that voters can pressure their representatives to act

ron paul is a libertarian, which is more aligned with old school republican philosophy

morons like romney wouldn't solve anything

Re:You are an idiot.

[crutchy]

sorry i meant rand paul, not ron paul

also, if you look on youtube you can get a lot more info than what is (even remotely) possible from CNN and Fox

youtube and social media is how ron paul became so popular despite media ignorance (even youtube tried to censor videos about him, albeit unsuccessfully because of many duplications made under different accounts by various supporters)... and rand will be able to take advantage of that stage also

ron paul only lost the republican primaries because of corruption

rand will have a much better chance, because gop cronies won't be able to hide corruption on the scale required to hold back son of ron paul in 2016... rand is gaining popularity off the back of his old man, and that represents a large and passionate base of voters that will continue to increase in numbers, and as Keynesian idiocy continues to flop, sound Austrian economics will prevail... even if only to clean up the mess left by years of stimulus overdose

Re:You are an idiot.

[ahodgson]

Yeah I'm actually pretty familiar with the Paul's. I just can't imagine the current Republican party allowing one of them to run for President.

Re:You are an idiot.

[crutchy]

The GOP majority will do whatever it can to kill Rand Paul's chance at the 2016 election (just like they did Ron's).

The only way he will have a chance is if an overwhelming majority of GOP supporters vote for him in the primaries so that no amount of corruption (that can be successfully hidden from the public eye) will be able to stop him.

I think Ron had a pretty good chance at the presidential nomination in 2012, and without GOP corruption he may have actually won the primaries, but in any case Rand will have the support of most of Ron Paul's fanatics as well as new support garnered between 2012 and 2016.

One problem is that many voters treat the election like a horse race; they think the aim is to pick the winner, rather than picking the guy that you think will run the country properly.

The GOP is lost, but so is the Democrats. Peter Schiff did a hilarious stunt at a Dems convention that is on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07fTsF5BiSM

Give the TSA workers a break

[Anonymous Coward]

The TSA people you deal with in the "security" line at airports are under trained, under paid, and treated with disdain by their employer. The fact that so many of them are nice is a miracle. I have the experience of being rescued from one TSA employee by another TSA employee at the Seattle airport.

If you want real security and want to be treated fairly, demand that congress, who set up the current system, give Homeland Security the money and orders to improve pay, training, and working conditions for the airport TSA people.

Re:Give the TSA workers a break

[Holi]

Why would I want to do that. Do you really think any of that extra money would actually trickle down to our airline prison guards. More likely some fancy new gadget will show up in their arsenal whether it is effective or not.

Re:Give the TSA workers a break

[crutchy]

The TSA people you deal with in the "security" line at airports are under trained, under paid, and treated with disdain by their employer

so they should get off their asses and get a real job

if you want to work for an organisation treated in contempt by the flying public, you are a moron and deserve to be as marginalized as the poor fools that subject themselves to TSA harrassment

No that's pretty normal

[Sycraft-fu]

You have to remember that Slashdot is full of drama queens and liars, particularly when it comes to issues like the TSA. The TSA is 6 buckets of useless, no question, and due to the low pay and culture of non-accountability, there are people in it who abuse their position. There are plenty of real stories of people getting harassed for no reason, theft by agents, and all kinds of shit like that. However they are actually the minority of incidents. Unsurprisingly "guy passes through security without incident," is not a news story.

So the news on this continues, and people are working to fight against it and have it changed. Makes sense, we shouldn't put up with bullshit from our government. We should push to have things made better. Even though the problems are in the minority, that doesn't mean they are ok. Things need to be fixed.

But then you get on to Slashdot, and combine that with a culture of immaturity, US hate (including from many US citizens), and exaggeration/lying. That leads to what you see. People make up stories about how evil things are, and how they'd "never travel to the US" even though they've probably never thought about it anyhow (overseas travel is still the exception, not the rule for most people). They cry on about how horrible it is and how every person is screwed over.

No truth to it, of course, but that doesn't matter.

Your experience is fairly typical. Most people don't have much trouble. I travel to Canada once or twice a year, and inside the US occasionally, and never have had any problems. Of course I'm white and speak with a Neutral American accent (think CNN) so I'm willing to say that may help.

My experience has varied based on the person I'm talking to. Sometimes, I'll walk by the border with maybe two questions (I am a dual citizen, so I carry a passport from both countries). Other times, they ask a bunch of questions, some rather silly I guess to try and trip people up or whatever. Regardless, after a couple minutes I go on by.

Same shit with the TSA. Sometimes I find agents friendly and smiling, other times I find them looking like they hate their job. Same with Canadian security. Sometimes they seem to know what they are doing, other times they are clueless (in Canada the X-ray agent searched my bag because she didn't recognize my Sonicare toothbrush, and was rather embarrassed when she found it and realized that's what it was and that she hadn't recognized it).

Overall our experience are pretty common, and you can see that just by standing in an airport and watching people go through security. There are outliers, of course, and we should work to get rid of that. Nobody should ever be harassed (you'll never get it down to 0 but that doesn't mean we don't try). But the people on Slashdot whining and bitching they'd never go to the US are just drama queens.

its even worse for travelers in Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

I have tinnitus caused by years of flying on small commuter aircraft every day for the last 10 years. It was determined my WCB (our version of OHSA) that the cause was the 115 db noise environment onboard Air Canada's airplanes (actually measured by a noise specialist)

I need to wear hearing protection in order to keep my condition from worsening. Air Canada refuses to acknowledge hearing protection as any thing other than stereo headsets or ear buds.

  I submitted a complaint to the air travel complaints commissioner for special dispensation to wear hearing protection while flying. With full support of my doctor, hearing specialist and documentation showing I was receiving 200% daily noise limit exposure on just one flight. Typically it takes 2 to 3 connections to get where I need to go.

First thing that happened was that Air Canada retaliated to my complaint by placing me on the no fly list. Then the complaints commissioner ruled that you have no right what so ever to preserve or protect your health. And dismissed my request stating that because i sill could hear and understand 90% of the words in conversational speech, my disability wasn't pronounced enough to qualify. But I could re apply should I become functionality deaf.

I have all the documentation over a year on this case, so if there are any reporters out there who want a jucy story, you can reach me @commeng on twitter

The truth

[Anonymous Coward]

You now live in a fascist state. Get used to it.

Allow TSA treat me like SHIT?

[Anonymous Coward]

NO effing way! every since 911, I have travelled to much nicer countries that do NOT suspect me of terrorism, so F U USA gov, you will NEVER see my toursim euros in my life time! I rather travel to some other country, or watch hulu via proxy service, and I am NOT missing out on anything at all but the discrimination, extremely high reverse-lottery health costs, and just plain low cultural value from your 1800 to present only history. egypts is THOUSANDS! south americas? THOUSANDS! chinas? THOUSANDS of years! I would never actually get trills visiting your "back to the future" movie ride, its just plain ridiculous.

A police stat does not care.

[Anonymous Coward]

Soon we will put to death you gimps just like the nazis its simple just cut your disability payments and medicare your dead meat and they know it.
So keep making a fuss the sooner the screws will turn.
It is how police states work.

If it makes the news, it's unusual

[rbphilip]

I've traveled a lot in the last 2 years (50+ different airports in multiple countries, mostly the US) and I've never had a security/border experience take more than about 10 minutes. No hassles, no problems. It's easy to smile, be friendly, and give them the answers they want to hear. Or, you can be disapproving and intolerant and get that reaction back from the person you're dealing with. Hundreds of thousands of people pass through American airports every year and you see a few dozen reports of TSA misbehavior, and it's always someone who's either being aggressive back at them, or someone in an abnormal situation who is touchy about it. My diabetic friend with an insulin pump needs a pat-down as the scanning machines may damage her pump. Always easy, never a problem. Not flying because of the TSA or the occasional nasty border guard is like not driving because of he occasional jerk on the road.

Human nature

[Anonymous Coward]

People can be jerks to each other by nature.

When man A has power over man B, he is more-likely to give-in to the temptation to abuse that power and be a jerk to man B

When man A not only has power but feels that a big powerful government will protect him from man B, he is even more tempted to be obnoxious to a man B. Man A will make man B wait, will treat man B with no respect, will violate the rights of man B, will hate and resent man B any time man B does anything that makes man A work harder.

This is why the founders of the US created a SMALL government limited to VERY FEW things AND said the citizens could "keep and bear arms" .... there are not supposed to be government workers everywhere in all aspects of our lives and those that ARE in our lives should never think they can get away with being abusive to the citizens (because no government can protect all its minions from a pissed-off population with guns). Any time a government worker interacts with a citizen, that government worker should be terrified that he/she will get blown-away for being abusive... and as a result, that government worker should never be abusive... and as a result that citizen should not get abused and therefore should not need to actually be bearing any arms at all....

easy

[crutchy]

tell the moron TSA rep that whatever you have is contagious... VEEEEERRRRYYY CONTAAAAAGIOUSSSSSS!!!!!!

It's just a matter of rebranding...

[12WTF$]

I just love the TSA.

And so you should.
The minor annoyances that people seem to want to blow up [joke] into traumatizing life ruining experiences will quickly dissipate,
when the Transportation Security Administration is rebranded to a warmer fuzzier name...
To save issuing new badges etc, the same acronym TSA will be used, so we can have

Travel Safe, America

Votes? More suggestions?

Take Scissors Away
Take Stuff Away
Terrorism Support Agency
Terrorists Still Allowed
Theatrical Self Aggrandizement
The Silly Agency
The Stupid Agency
They Steal Anything
This $u(k$ @$$
Three Stooges Audition
Tin Star Alert
Totally Suspicious Agency
Tourism Sabotage Activity
Transparently Senseless Aggravation
Travellers Subjected Arbitrarily
Treasonous Sinister Axis
Tuff Stubborn Anal
Turpitude Summarily Accepted
Twisted Sexual Abusers

And also lets rebrand the Department of Homeland Security DHS:
Delusive Hollow Sham
Deplorable Harrassment of Selectees, Treatment Simply Abusive
Desperate Hopeless Situation
D!(k Head Screeners
Dirty Handed Shakedown
Doesn't Have Sanity
Doesn't Help Security
Dollars Horribly Spent
Dysfunctional Hassle Spree
Don't Have a Seizure

There's an app for that

[Anonymous Coward]

And if there isn't now there will be in about ten minutes :)

It's fear

[Anonymous Coward]

They think your buddies will blow them up.

Congress allowed the TSA to come into existence...

[ToddInSF]

Demand they dismantle the agency.

Re:

[phouqhue]

This is what your citizens get when you allow congress to pass the Homeland Security Act. Your country is screwed. Welcome to the new United States of Facist America.

TSA Brain Sturgeons

[SeanQuaint]

I have a myoelectric prosthetic arm, that always holds me up at the TSA line. I have even taken it off in line and sent it through with my laptop. That doesn't help, I found. After the guy on the other side of the scanner asked me (the only dude standing in line with one hand coming out his sleeves) "Is this your arm?" (boy, it was all I could do to not point to the guy behind me and say "no, I think it's his"), he made me go stand aside while he x-rayed it again and dusted it for explosives, then dusted me for explosives, and after I'd cleared the first metal detector get scanned and groped as if I hadn't cleared the first scan. I was not amused. Another time, in Atlanta, I left the thing on when I went through the scanner. The fact that it was electric so flummoxed the TSA there that they x-rayed it with it still attached to my body from several different angles, causing me to have to stand in all sorts of strange angles to accommodate their stupidity. I told them several times I could remove it, but they insisted I keep it on. Then when the x-rays showed that the electronic hand had WIRES AND BATTERIES, they freaked out and called their boss over to have a look. It was freaking amazing that they didn't turn blue and pass out for forgetting how to breath without illustrated instructions.

Hire a lawyer

[Mr. Freeman]

Oh look another one of these posts. "Slashdot, I was wronged. The party that wronged me broke several laws and treated me in a degrading way. What should I do?"

The answer is ALWAYS to HIRE A LAWYER!

HIRE A FUCKING LAWYER! Someone broke the law, you need a lawyer if you want to take any action against them. If they're violating deadlines and laws regarding interactions with people with disabilities then you probably have a good legal case lined up. However, if you sit on your ass then your opportunity is going to disappear. You need to hire a lawyer and act fast.

Partially wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

In México we don't call them "Americans". We call them "Gringos". Everybody in México knows "Gringo" is somebody from the United States of America.

Oooh! Lawsuit of millions!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, sounds that way to me!