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Elon Musk Hates 405 Freeway Traffic, Pays Money To Speed Construction
S810 writes "Elon Musk, one of the main people behind PayPal, Space Exploration Technologies and Tesla Motors, has paid $50,000 to help Los Angeles speed up construction of the 405 Freeway, making it better and says that he will pay more if needed. From the article: 'Musk said he is open to pay the cost of adding workers to the widening project "as a contribution to the city and my own happiness. If it can actually make a difference, I would gladly contribute funds and ideas. I've super had it." — Musk quips that it's easier getting rockets into orbit than navigating his commute between home in Bel-Air and his Space Exploration Technologies factory in Hawthorne.' For those who aren't familiar with this issue, the 405 Freeway runs from the northern end of the San Fernando Valley all the way down to El Toro and runs by LAX. Residents are getting frustrated that this widening project is over budget and well over the anticipated time frame that it was supposed to completed by."
If he has the money and is willing to spend it then why not move closer to his job site and entirely avoid the freeway?
Does $50k remotely make any dent there? Aren't these projects tens of millions of dollars?
Free Conference Call -- No Spam, High Quality
If you want to throw money at the problem of highway construction, you offer a large payout contingent on how quickly it gets done while still within project specifications.
The workers get paid by the hour and so do the contractor managers most of the time. So to give them money with the promise of "more if needed" will result in pleas of "hey! we need more!!!"
These people seriously don't understand how it works when highways are constructed with public money -- the recipients never want the money to run out.
it's all the cars on it.
if they built the sort of light rail which the region desperately needs it could cut down on the traffic hugely.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
He didn't pay money to speed construction. He spent $50,000 on a consulting organization that would look into how to speed up construction. They did not find a way to do so. But hey, he's learning how these things work: spending $50k to "study" something with no results is exactly how many real projects happen too. ;-)
A better question might be why L.A. is spending $1.1 billion on widening a freeway, instead of improving its damn transit. Adding another lane is going to be a stop-gap solution at best, and it'll be congested to the hilt within another few years. Is the goal to have 30-lane freeways by 2030 or something?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
405 means N/S off shoot to the 5 that reconnect.
That why there is more then one 405.
and this make it hard for me to feel sad:
"is commute between home in Bel-Air and his Space Exploration Technologies factory in Hawthorne."
What a tragic life he has.
20 miles through some of the densest population. You can blame the city planners who abandoned the much more logical freeway expansion in the 70's.
https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Hawthorne,+Los+Angeles,+California&daddr=Bel+Air,+Los+Angeles,+CA&hl=en&sll=34.009839,-118.406011&sspn=0.380785,0.437393&geocode=FfOFBQIdQRXy-CnxLsxaK7TCgDEBszjMHXHBYg%3BFe5YCAIdk3zw-Cn78k5sGb3CgDFY1NTXKyVR5A&t=h&mra=pd&z=11
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
You aren't in traffic, you are traffic.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I like living in the country, I'm not going to move into the inner city where my job is just because the commute sucks. However, if I can contribute a fairly small portion of my money to make my commute a bit easier, I will. A good place for a job can be a really shitty place for a home.
He lives in BelAir and commutes to Hawthorne ?? Give me a break... that was ridiculous 30 years ago and still is. One word, listen closely... MOVE. Everyone seems to think it's normal to drive these ridiculous long commutes and it's actually a symptom of a screwed up society in love with their crappy cars. Try living closer to work and walk there, or ride your golf cart or something.
Instead of taking the 405, he should continue south until he reaches Palisades park. And he should be pulling a Jetski or a motorized kayak. Jump into the ocean, and come out at Dockweiler beach state park. Have another car waiting for him there, and then take Imperial hwy which converts into 105.
Since Elon Musk is so wealthy and he's only paying $50,000, may I contribute my $5 ?
The $5 from me to me is worth much more (by ratio of my wealth) than the $50,000 to Mr. Musk, btw
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
How about you actually making a point without logical fallacy and using specific examples?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"The 405 Freeway runs from the northern end of the San Fernando Valley all the way down to El Torro and runs by LAX."
And is a complete and total piece of shit. Unlike Orange County, which has been upgrading its road network for the last 40 years, LA in the 1970s diverted money away from roads and into mass transit systems (subway, light rail, bus). The net result is the completely clogged arteries of the city, which its vaunted bus network needs dedicated lanes to even barely function in.
Everyone knows when they reach the boundary between OC and LA. Going one way, it opens up from 25MPH to 85MPH. Coming the other way, it slams down from 85MPH to 25MPH.
Also, it's spelled El Toro.
Kind of true.The section of the 405 Elon Musk drives every day is the most congested of all, though. Have a look at traffic information on Google Maps. Right now (5:05pm local time), more than half of the distance between Hawthorne and Bel Air is red or black. The estimated time for that drive is 27 min, but 55 in the current traffic. And it is the same every day of the week.
I still find the money would be better invested in expanding the rail/subway network. How many lanes can you add to a freeway before it becomes ridiculously dangerous? There are already 17 lanes on some sections of the I-5 over here...
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
"I still find the money would be better invested in expanding the rail/subway network. How many lanes can you add to a freeway before it becomes ridiculously dangerous? There are already 17 lanes on some sections of the I-5 over here..."
But...but...but...SOCIALISM!!!!!!
If he doesn't like his commute so much, maybe he should move closer to "work"? Oh, he wants to live in a densely populated, highly desirable area which means that he knew the commute to Hawthorne was going to suck? Sounds like someone who moves near an airport and complains about the noise.
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
And ride a bike. In LA you can split lanes, so you can get anywhere pretty fast while looking cool. It (almost) never rains and a nice crotch rocket is probably even more environmentally friendly than his current ride.
But those are the very lanes Elon uses.
Widening the 405 is an expensive and only temporary band-aid to the problem of traffic congestion. The hamburger analogy explains why:
Free hamburgers are like unpriced freeway lanes. Eventually they will all get taken up. Any city planner (and Elon Musk) should know that a shortage happens when the price of an item is set below the going rate determined by supply and demand. It's much, much easier and cheaper to fix the problem of traffic congestion once and for all with a variable price set at the market equilibrium rate than by trying to build your way out of traffic congestion. Even Randal O'Toole agrees.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
Flying car.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
Ha ha, tell me another one.
I lived in L.A. from 1966 until 1993. I've seen the 405 widened many times.
The day they open the new lanes they'll be at capacity and gridlocked – again.
More commuter rail? Sure. I don't know why they don't run a subway under or a monorail over the 405 while they're at it. They should have done that 30 years go. But you don't seriously think Elon is going to ride public transit to work do you?
If I were Musk, I'd just ride in a limo and treat the backseat as my mobile office for the variable amount of time spent in traffic. I'm sure the guy spends most of his time in email or on the phone anyway. He's got the money to do all that and full high-def video-conferencing from his car if he wanted to.
Sure, that doesn't help anyone else. But this article is about his personal frustration and what he's done in response.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Sure, LA has a great talent pool of engineers, but I am sure it would have been cheaper to just have SpaceX in a region with better managed freeways, and less density. I'm sure the engineers wouldn't mind moving since LA is a hell hole these days when it comes to commuting.
How about replying instead of trying to knock off my karma?
You're an idiot. Happy?
Here in Montreal that barely pays for one corrupt city official to answer the phone.
Mostly random stuff.
Meanwhile, the owner of the construction firm in charge of the project, who's been bleeding the state for every last dime it could just shit himself as he looked up Elon Musks net worth and realized just how much more money he could make if he made the delays even more intolerable.
There isn't an infinite demand for roads, there's a finite number of people trying to get to a finite number of places and if the roads are sufficient then you don't have congestion. Driving is not a free activity, it costs money even if the road doesn't.
Japan is an example of that, they've gone road building crazy trying to make growth and where they've done that, the roads are empty. Just not enough traffic.
Variable pricing does not fix capacity, it rewards incompetence. If the authority is too incompetent to deliver the road service, it earns the most money from congestion charges. Thus the incentive is to be incompetent and fail to deliver proper road infrastructure.
While I prefer the country myself (and just recently took a job in the country to get out of the city), working in the city and living in the country is irrational by almost any objective criteria. Here are some examples (all times are for the round trip):
Here is the article I pulled those stats from, it links to more definitive sources. Basically, it's absolutely not worth it to live further away from your job to have a bigger house. That said, raising a family might be better in the country, unless you're subjecting your kids to a long commute as well.
If I were musk, I would have my personal helicopter.
maybe shifting your job hours to 7 to 3 might make that less of an issue to you.
And yes, I am familiar with the area - I used to to have to go to work back and forth from Westlake Village to El Segundo and back.
The widening project was a travesty of wasted money. It's was more about employing people than it was increasing capacity which they didn't want to do since if you did that the rest of the LA area would suffer more crowning and traffic.
With the money they had they had available they could have built a layer on top of the existing freeway that could have withstood a 10.0 earthquake. It's really not that long a stretch they are working on. They could possibly have tunneled through the mountains in two or three places with the same amount of money which wouldn't have bothered existing traffic.
Back in the 50's oil companies bought off LA area city planning. They designed the city for traffic. They decided where the more expensive and less expensive areas would be. Then they put the areas of industry and shopping far away from the cheaper housing which is where more people travel from.
I live and work in south Orange County, so I don't take the 405 every day, thanks God.
Shifting job hours can indeed be beneficial, but most employers won't allow it (this does not apply to Elon, though).
BTW, Westlake Village to El Segundo must have been a horrible drive to do every day. Happy for you that you don't do it anymore, really.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
"price of using them is set at the market equilibrium price, the roads will be sufficient in that supply and demand will be in equilibrium"
People still need to get to work, any traffic you drive off a road goes elsewhere. You've just moved your congestion. There is already a market price there, its the cost of the fuel and the cost of the lost time.
"The optimal amount of road lane-miles is not the amount where there's never any congestion when the price is zero, but the amount where the cost of traffic congestion equals the price of the tolls or the cost of adding more road."
Again false, the cost of the congestion is paid for by the driver in fuel and time. While the cost of the toll is also paid for by the driver. Both are costs on the driver, not in balance. Increasing the toll, does not reduce the cost on the driver by removing the congestion. He still has to drive to work.
That logic is based on the 'unnecessary journey' thinking. The idea that most people causing the congestion are on that road unnecessarily and can be induced to not take the journey if you charge them enough. However congestion is at peak hours and is thus work related. It's tard thinking to believe people drive in congestion voluntarily.
Anyone who lived in Southern California for the 2 decades following the Reagan Amnesty can attest to the fact that more immigration is good for the environment generally. That's why the Sierra Club banned all debate about immigration after receiving hundred million dollars or so from a donor who told them to STFU about immigration and the environment.
Seastead this.
"Of course they can. Perfect price inelasticity of demand only exists in theory."
1. You haven't disputed that people are making those unpleasant expensive (fuel+time) journeys out of necessity, not pleasure.
2. So you price the roads till you remove congestion, and you've eliminated *necessary* journeys.
3. So all you've done it squeeze productivity, till it's small enough to fit your road capacity.
Perhaps you force companies to move elsewhere, perhaps closed a few smaller ones, perhaps shrunk others. Ultimately you're just squeezing demand to fit a supply you've artificially limited. In the process reduced productivity, a cost you as road maker don't bear.
Which implies that all roads would constantly be congested the exact same amount, relative to their size???
Because, you know, I have been to the real world. And there is this funny thing there where road congestion actually appears to have something to do with demand for travel between two points. And there are roads both huge and small that have no congestions problems at all. And single lane roads where traffic if backed up straight through two intersections.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
In America, suburban schools are usually better than inner city schools. Being that said, I am willing to take a slight pay cut for telecommunting privlege and indefinite tenure. Some dumb blonde CEO may disagree with your finding however.
New Economic Perspectives
And the color of moss is green btw.
A plant often removed never grow.
That's why you don't change jobs often, over a few % point raise. It is not worth it. Switching jobs like a grass hopper hippie does not show the trait of a stable, strong man.
You want a raise? Grow some back, do your compatriots some good, and help start a national I.T. / SysAdmin / DBA labor union to protect quality American workers and repel lazy indian H1Bs.
New Economic Perspectives
The problem isn't that LA needs wider freeways OR an expanded rail/subway network... LA needs wider freeways *AND* an expanded rail/subway network. People who argue for one to the exclusion of the other are missing the point.
A new rail line won't do a damn thing for gridlock *today* -- it takes a minimum of 25-40 years before a new rail line really starts to pull its own weight (40 when it's the first segment in a city, 25 when you're extending one that's already established). That doesn't mean the rail line shouldn't get built... it means the rail line should get built today, along with the freeway's reconstruction, so that 25-40 years from now, the rail line will have matured enough to start absorbing travel loads from the freeway, and it won't be necessary to demolish and rebuild the whole freeway yet again.
He's got a 6-digit id. He's still relatively young.
The kids these days always rant and rave without any substance. Notice how he didn't provide _any_ stats on HOV lanes. He hasn't pointed out any factual benefits or disadvantages to them.
In America, suburban schools are usually better than inner city schools. Being that said, I am willing to take a slight pay cut for telecommunting privlege and indefinite tenure.
While true, inner cities also have private schools which are better than suburban public schools (particularly since problem students can easily be expelled, thanks to the safety net of public schools). Take ~$6,000/yr for high school for example - if schools are the main reason for moving to the suburbs, determine if you are losing more than $6,000/yr in money or time by commuting - it may end up actually being cheaper.
You suggest that logistics are complicated and causing delays. As a public, that's not our problem, that's the contractors. If the contractor is delayed because they are using a loader or paver across town for a 2 month project, that's not the public's problem. We are paying for THIS stretch of the freeway. You bid and you agreed to do it within the same time window. The contractor is on hook to have a paver on the site as needed, and not delay it because it's not convenient.
Large construction companies that bid on these types of projects need to be held to the dates even more. "Logistics" excuses like yours are just not acceptable. Buy the equipment if you need it, deliver on time. Or for every day you pay a huge fine. Make sure the fines are more than the cost of the actual work and firms will start to deliver on time, and most likely, ahead of time.
You're funny.
Next time you try building a house, see how successful you are at getting all the contractors to arrive and get their work done according to your schedule.
It's no different with a private firm, like Granite Construction, which may have a few pavers or shovels, but they queue the jobs up so they can get things done in an order, but breakdowns happen, unforeseen things interfere, weather can delay things, then all the planning is replaced by a scramble, maybe subcontract or lease from another contractor.
Seemingly simple projects often run over in time and can't be helped.
Aside that, one thing I've noticed which makes traffic move smoother is a few police cars in the traffic. Bust the chops of a few of these jerks who keep changing lanes to save a second or two. That's what gets the whole mass of traffic crawling. Amazing how well it all works when everyone sits in their lane and goes a reasonable speed.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I don't think anyone is bothered by that attitude at all. It's when people whine and complain about the commute that they "choose" to have that people pull out the pitchforks.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
So you hold the contractor to a schedule that says a utility line will be moved by a certain date, but the utility company doesn't get it done? If you expect that you better be prepared to pay about 100x more for road construction.
Most states have strict liquidated damages for exceeding schedule. But there are often factors beyond the control of the contractor and beyond the control of the government. When the power company fails to move the power pole that prevents the traffic shift that allows the construction to move forward you do what you have to do and stretch the schedule because you can't do jack shit to the utility company and they know it.
This seems as good a place as any to reach a wide audience of people who commute on southern California freeways.
Did anyone notice how many times they rebuild the center divider on the 710 in between the 405 and the 5? (Compton, Lynwood, Bell, South Gate, etc)
I am referring to the 2005-2009ish time frame. I swear that they literally built the entire length of it, tore it down and rebuilt it at least three times.
Get huge See-Me-in-Life-Size screens
at the office you'd otherwise need to suffer
freeway delays driving to... connect them
to your home[-office]... & never suffer again.
Hold BBQ's at your home for any contract-
signings that may require more than a digital
signature.
I'm surprised that you're not already doing this
now.
I begin to think that the "Past-is-Future" thought-
lessness that -surrounds- you there has seeped
into your psyche, making it hard to see obvious
technical solutions.. that others take for granted
(except, perhaps Yahoo's CEO.. who's recently
-forbade- her staff from enjoying the -privilege-
of telecommuting some days each week).
By all means enjoy the extra time you'll save, ie,
by telecommuting whenever you can.
Maybe even set some "new" examples:
1. telecommuting (for those who can)
2. staggered start-times (for the rest)
3. Thorium powered plant (a big job)
4. flat organisational chart
5. zero-emission company
etc.
What can you gain by -using- & -supporting-
ancient, mostly fossil-fueled, mostly self-drive
personal-transport via -clogged- freeways?!?
Swedes enjoyed train-commutes (through
forested areas) from Stockholm to ASEA,
sitting at desks, each with a phone, FAX &
laptop... as early as the mid-1980's.
To get-a-Life, you may need to re-think your
present designs... & add some telecommuting,
etc. to the mix.
Start Today! :-)
I just mapped it, and it comes up about 17-18, but you're still in the right ballpark.
His best bet is to move- as soon as the 405 is built out, it will return to the same congestion as before (that happens to freeways everywhere). The next best thing (and better for LA) would be to fund a rail line that essentially parallels the 405. And maybe throw in a bikeway-- LA has 330 days/year that are good biking weather, but having to do a long commute on city streets can be a pain. There are a few bikeways along the various rivers and/or freeways (SGRT, LARIO) that can make a bike commute competitive with driving, even for very long distances. Shorter than about 10 miles it's faster to bike, and even at 15-20 miles, the combination of bike and train is faster than driving at rush hour.
He'd probably do more good by funding a troop of auditors to go over the books of the project and investigators to turn over every rock regarding who's getting paid off and by whom. Just knowing that somebody's scrutinizing every invoice, payment, contract, and load of asphalt delivered would probably build a fire. Then there's the tried-and-true method of making a raft of campaign donations to the politicians involved.
I'd just live closer to the business. If there aren't any houses there to buy, I'd build one.
Will it be wide enough to land a plane on it?
Shachar
LA has got to have one of the most helicopter-friendly weather conditions of any US city outside of perhaps Las Vegas.
Why doesn't he just take a helicopter to work most days?
It's called road tax. Many countries around the world have it, and use the money car owners have to pay to be allowed on the public road to actually keep that road maintained. Civilized countries usually have such a system and have well maintained roads.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
And the LA Times. Fortunately he has a lot of dollars to match his outrage.
An odd thing for a CEO of all people to do unless he's lost the relative sense of what the value of money is. Does Musk think throwing money at the problem will solve it? Reminds me of 'trickle down' economics. You know what happens when you go to buy something and are willing to give more cash for it than the asking price? The seller takes the extra cash and sticks it in their pocket, plain and simple.
This donations need to go to key politicians, that is just a drop in the bucket. The cost for highways is way out of his league. Upkeep is high as well. Auditing would only go so far, the big issue is that roads are expensive.... you could lower the cost considerably if you prohibited heavy trucks and limited the speed! (F=ma dominates the cost.) I've seen the cost for roads and the load + speed makes it rise so fast, people have no clue how much all these roads legitimately cost. You could double the size of city blocks and remove a lot of waste... however, those roads are cheap and it doesn't end up making a big difference in the long run (it does however SAVE a lot of money...)
All that being said, once you look into the real world numbers you realize that adding 1 lane for billions of dollars only improves traffic by about 10% if I remember correctly. If you take too long to build it, then you gain nothing! Unless you cut down on the INCREASE in cars you can't build it fast enough; as is already the case in just about every major city in the USA. Mass transit is required and far cheaper - like everything there is some function for both and likely an intersection point where cars will always lose.
You could cut down on the number of people... contribute to education - its the most effective politically correct way to control population growth.
The solutions are not something people are going to like. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Musk could work on building a huge rail line... and a car rental service for either end of it.... I'd like to see a train station that moves with the train so you don't have to wait while people get on and off. Even that is cheap compared to highway construction and buying land.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
I drive this stretch of road. And I've driven in Germany. We should take a page from Germany's playbook and "drive right" (rechts fahren) and pass on the left. The Autobahn is mostly only 2 lanes after all. Take you're 50K and get the state of California to stop calling the far left (non HOV/carpool) lane the subjective "fast" lane, as they do in the driver hand books, and teach people to call it the "passing" lane.
Another nice thing about motorcycles is that they're allowed to use the carpool lane.
Good, inexpensive web hosting
*sources needed* 25 years ? 40 years?
Ten to one it is a rounding error on his tax dodges oops sorry, tax evasions.
Anyway, sooner or later, the people always get the government and infrastructure they deserve... the US government and infrastructure rotten to the core? How... unexpected, giving the nature of your average American who rather deny himself a thousand dollars for the fear someone else might get a penny of him.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
"The cost to construct one lane-mile of a typical 4-lane divided highway can range from $3.1 million to $9.1 million per lane-mile in rural areas depending on terrain type and $4.9 million to $19.5 million in urban areas depending on population size."
I would see $50,000 as a drop in the ocean. Of course if it is a bribe to get that particular road prioritized then it could be a very effective drop...
Some dumb blonde CEO may disagree with your finding however.
What's hair colour got to do with it? I assume plenty of bald CEOs don't allow telecommuting.
If you actually read about yahoo, and triad to reason without using your personal biases you might have actually come to the opposite conclusion. The place was a mess, and it seemed that no one had any idea on what half of the telecommuters were working.
Telecommuting works if (a) limited inter person communication is needed and (b) people know exactly what they're working on. Clearly neither of those was the case any longer at Yahoo and so telecommuting for not became untenable.
Her ability to see that is why she's the CEO earning $bigbucks and you're not.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
He's got a 6-digit id. He's still relatively young.
And you've got a 5 digit ID. You're still a plonker.
Seriously.
I have a 6 digit ID in the 600k range (not the 500k range) and I've been reading slashdot for about 10 years. Maybe a bit longer. The poster you're complaining about has been here longer than me.
If you're claiming that 10 years is "new around here" then you're doing a fantastic job of demonstrating why waving teeny IDs is nothing more than e-peen waving and contributes nothing of value.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Zoning laws don't always allow that.
Dilbert RSS feed
Musk needs to get on the reverse commute side of things. Works great for me in Silicon Valley. Everyone is stuck in traffic *going the other way* on my way to work. Ditto in the evening.
You fine the utility company the cost of the increase in the schedule of widening the road. You will soon find that the utility company makes sure that stuff is moved out the way according to schedule.
ntr
Come now. Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.Uber whatever is obviously way smarter than Marrissa Mayer and Uber whatever could obviously run Yahoo much better but he just isn't feeling it right now. Maybe in a few more years he'll be feeling it and then he'll move out of mommies basement and change the world.
I think some variation between people has to be allowed for (not to mention locating households with several occupants who travel to different places). There are lot of differences between large cities and small towns/villages other than house size - air quality, noise levels, environment, leisure activities, crime levels and so on. Some people love the busy-ness, noise, access to shops, vibrancy and general shittiness of cities, whereas others hate those things. Those numbers aren't going to be the same for everybody - and some commuters will spend some chunk of their commuting time on foot, which makes a difference.
It's a lot better with adequate transport and well chosen locations. My first commute from a village involved a five minute walk, 26 minutes on a train to travel 30 miles (to London), then another five minute walk. Many people travel for much longer than that just inside the city. London is a bit different to most US cities, though.....most journeys to central London are by public transport, and it's almost totally inaccessible by car for most commuters (outer parts are different, though). (There also aren't actually enough homes in London for everyone who works there to live there). And central London salaries can be 40% greater (and a lot more for some people).
I don't know about you, but I'd much, much rather live in Bel Air (if I could afford it) than in Hawthorne.
Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
Or, like the owner of my company, occasionally fly his helicopter from home to office.
My company's president complains about the commute and company pays for Limo and chauffeur, so he can be more productive. Elon pays to get the highway fixed up with his own money. I need to get my resume polished up, so I can find a position at SpaceX or Tesla.
He just hates his car dying halfway to work.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Melissa Mayer's ability "summarized" in one word: Summly.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Seems like Palmdale would be a far better location.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
...The next best thing (and better for LA) would be to fund a rail line that essentially parallels the 405. ..., the combination of bike and train is faster than driving at rush hour.
What are you? Some kind of green pinko commie socialist? What is more socialist that public transportation? That is not what this country needs! Clearly if the road is getting congested again by private cars, then we need to spend more...uh...public money on more...uh, public roads! Why would I want to pay for something that I have to share with others like mass transit? I might have to sit next to someone that doesn't think or look like me!
Arterial roads are an attempt to solve a 2 dimensional problem (sprawl) with a 1 dimensional solution (linear roads). You can't add width to your line fast enough to make up for area growth at the end points. Elon Musk of all people should understand this. Is his little public donation a step toward a political life?
*sigh* Another high ID that can't seem to focus on the _original_ discussion.
Sorry, I must have mis read the bit where you said:
He's got a 6-digit id. He's still relatively young.
Oh no wait, I didn't. You said exactly that.
Way to stay focused on the negative instead of adding something constructive to the dicussion!
Part of a discussion is calling out people when they talk crap. You were talking crap and I called you out. Now you're complaining that I'm the one topic drifting, when you're also the one who took the random segue into ranting about UID numbers.
Or do you believe that the priviledge to change topic is reserved for the 5 digiters and below?
By the way: you may have noticed a rather unusual feature that slashdot has which I like to call "threading". It's rather clever and represents posts and replies as a "tree" so that sub conversations like this one stay in a sub-"tree" and do not disturb peopl on other sub conversations. Amazing.
Guess people would rather bitch about off-topic non-issues
You mean like you were bitching about how people with 6 digit UIDs are new here since 10 years is just too soon?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Finally, some interesting commentary.
It is hard to determine the optimal efficiency of traffic flow without numbers, but let's try anyways ...
a) If an HOV is _added_ to an _existing_ infrastructure, then having it is not taking anything away, but I agree with the assertion that it may not be the most optimal.
The problem we are trying to optimize is: How can we move the most cars (maximize distance) in the least amount of time. i.e. dX/dT. Which looks like a differential equation.
Would it be better instead of having the extra lane be HOV or be a Open lane? I don't know. I would like to see some studies in various high population areas first. Otherwise I think we are all pulling numbers out of our an ass. The technical term is "SWAG": scientific wild assed guess.
b) Likewise I would also like to see the converse data. If an _existing_ lane is _converted_ over then what happens to the traffic efficiency?
> that one clown doing 40 mph doesn't screw up the entire benefit (to drivers) of the HOV lane.
I partially agree with you. The 2+ clowns doing 60 mph instead of the legal 65 mph (or the more realistic 75 mph) in the far left-most two lanes are a MUCH bigger problem then maximizing the HOV lane usage. Those retards introduce standing waves in traffic which are far most destructive to dX/dT.
It is a shame that the Dept. of Motor Vehicles doesn't know shit about standing waves nor teaches people how to help optimize keeping vehicles moving in the traffic flow. One of these days every car will be able to pass it's current speed both forward and backwards to its neighbor's car so that people 5, 10, 20 mins down the road can know about future traffic conditions. i.e. Peer-to-Peer Car Knowledge.
Not in any American city I know of. You might get preschool for that price, or unlicensed day care. According to the Internets the average cost of non-religious private high schools in the USA was $27,302 in 2007. But dropping enrollment due to the post-Clinton economic situation has driven individual costs up even more since then.
I might have to sit next to someone that doesn't think or look like me!
Looking or thinking is fine, it's not smelling and acting like me that is bothersome ;-)
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Or, like the owner of my company, occasionally fly his helicopter from home to office.
Yes, sometimes there really is no other way of saying "I'm a highly paid douchebag with a vastly inflated sense of my own importance".
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Or consider buying a motorcycle in the only state in the US where lane splitting is legal. Not only does that reduce congestion for everyone else on the road, it also improves your mental health.
( http://www.gixxer.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-288070.html )
Lane splitting (which I assume means filtering between two lanes on a motorcycle) is not at all good for your mental health.
In the UK, it's OK to filter through slow moving traffic, but I wouldn't want to do so at motorway speeds even if it was legal. When I see fellow bikers weaving in and out of traffic and undertaking (illegally) I feel absolutely no desire to copy them.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Building a train parallel to the freeway, especially in Los Angeles, doesn't do anything to relieve congestion. They've already tried that with MetroLink, as well as the Bus Rapid Transit along the 10 freeway, and they are just as clogged as they were before. Oh, and on national average of all US cities with population of 500k or more, a transit commute takes more time than a car commute by a significant amount. Source
That doesn't even get into the financial aspect, where cost per passenger-mile traveled on rail projects is 4x what a car costs when you factor in construction costs for both rail and road, as well as maintenance costs for both rolling stock and car, and personal ownership costs of the car (insurance, title fees, etc.) and fuel.
Outside of incredibly dense population centers, rail just doesn't make sense.
Nothing actually relieves congestion-- you just move more people using less space or resources per person but the same congestion. There's a certain amount of congestion/delay/commute time that people are willing to tolerate, and people will keep saturating transportation modes back to that level no matter what you do to relieve it. New freeways or lanes rapidly return to the previous levels of congestion-- you can't pave your way out of it, but you can provide modes that are more pleasant or more efficient.
Transit being slower than driving in US cities is because most transit is buses that travel in the same lanes as auto traffic, but make more stops. Of course it's slower. Light rail can be quite fast, and in LA light rail plus bicycle can be much faster than driving at peak times. You also can do something like read while you're on the train, which you can't in the car. I live in the Pasadena area, and it's much faster to take the train to DTLA at peak hours than to drive. I temporarily have a commute several times a week to the south bay-- that's faster by car because I'd have to take 4 different trains or bus lines to do it. But traffic is so bad that I can get to Sunnyvale in about the same time it takes me to get to the south bay. Leaving early and coming home after peak make it tolerable for a little while (and it's usually only 3 days/week). I'd move if it was permanent.
My partner commutes (bike+train) sometimes to DTLA, and when she's late getting home it's because someone gave her a ride partway-- it's consistently slower than bike+train. Now that Metro lets you take a bike any time, there are a lot of people who do bike+train commutes. They should really consider a different style car, with bike hooks and flip up seats along one side, and regular seats along the other. It would make it easier to pack more people+bikes in. Shared use bike lockers (which are now available in the bay area) instead of long term rental lockers would also make bike commuting/shopping easier-- they work like parking meters, but keep people from stealing parts off your bike.
with too much money in the area would give $50K you would probably very quickly hit tens of millions of $$
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
And treat the wide line between the carpool lane and the number 1 lane as their own lane when both of those are stopped.
nobody uses the 405 anymore...it's just too crowded. ;P
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
The problem we are trying to optimize is: How can we move the most cars (maximize distance) in the least amount of time. i.e. dX/dT. Which looks like a differential equation.
One small but important nit-- you're not trying to move the most cars, but the most people.
It is a shame that the Dept. of Motor Vehicles doesn't know shit about standing waves nor teaches people how to help optimize keeping vehicles moving in the traffic flow. One of these days every car will be able to pass it's current speed both forward and backwards to its neighbor's car so that people 5, 10, 20 mins down the road can know about future traffic conditions. i.e. Peer-to-Peer Car Knowledge.
In LA they most certainly do. They can't make drivers drive better, but they instrument the hell out of the roads and there are a number of ways for drivers to get detailed real time information. The whole region's freeway system is instrumented and you can get near real time updates of freeway speeds at sigalert.com as well as most of the popular mapping apps. It even gives the dispatch reports from incidents so you know which lanes are blocked. I glance at sigalert and replan my route in an instant due to a collision 15 miles away. The city of LA also just completed integration of city street sensors and lights system wide, and it does work. You can get street speed data on google maps, and there are also crowdsourced apps like waze (which I don't use since it put me on a dead stopped 405) or trapster, that integrate realtime data from drivers on the road.
Washington. Atlanta. Miami. San Francisco.
All were mostly useless the day they opened, and were seriously limited in their usefulness for at least a decade... but now, roughly 30-40 years after the first segment opened, all four cities have at least gotten to the point where somebody who lives within walking distance of a station can find just about everything he or she needs within walking distance of another station, and depending upon the local job market and one's career field, has roughly 50-50 odds of being able to work within "viable" distance of a station.
More importantly, all four rail lines now have at least a few segments that are of sufficient importance that none of the cities would *dare* to take up an evil genie on his offer to refund the lines' original construction cost (not adjusted for inflation) in return for making them disappear forever. That's not to say that all four don't have examples of glaring mistakes that are painfully obvious today... but they each offer examples of the circumstances under which they can prosper and flourish in their respective markets (most of which can be summed up as, "embrace sprawl, proudly take ownership of it, and direct it into new suburban skyscraper clusters around outlying stations").
You also can do something like read while you're on the train, which you can't in the car.
Some of my fellow drivers would beg to differ...
I would think that his best solutions would be to a) Use a chopper, surely he can afford one or b) Move back to Salt Lake City
Were they literally brand new isolated segments, or were they new lines that extended (or at least directly shared a station with) existing lines? I'm talking about the American situation where a city with no meaningful transit to begin with builds its first rail line, at least half of which passes through areas that are industrial wastelands, dangerous slums, and/or just plain stupid places to build it (generally, surrounded by an ocean of single-family homes whose owners will fight any attempts at skyscraper-density redevelopment next door).
In America, skyscrapers next to the station are almost mandatory for viability, because Americans have very little tolerance for extended outdoor walks. If their destination isn't next door or across the street from the station, Americans generally won't take the train (however, transit systems can cheat a bit, and build underground air-conditioned corridors that psychologically extend the station's useful footprint, because "next door" is measured from the point where the rider has to actually go outside. The underground corridors at Crystal City (Arlington, VA) can get kind of creepy (it almost feels like you stumbled onto a movie set or into some area where you aren't really allowed, and you're going to get run down by security guards at any moment), but they DO serve the useful purpose of making a fairly large area feel like it's all adjacent to the station.
I wish that there were quality private high schools for $6K that operated outside of the Catholic Church. From what I know, LA Unified is a nightmare of a school district, and many of the suburban districts aren't much better.
I guess Florida traffic is different. Going from two lanes to four quadruples carrying capacity. A slow driver or someone trying to turn left can shut down a two lane. Adding a third lane to each side doubles capacity again. Slow downs for merging traffic from on ramps is reduced by through traffic keeping in the left two lanes at near full speed. I have been driving in the Orlando and Jacksonville area for 45 years. The population has increased dramatically in those years and even with lower speed limits travel times are much quicker. The only problem with Orlando is once you are on the surface streets traffic signal cycles are twice as long as needed and you wait a full minute after cross traffic has cleared before you get a green light.
Fine the utility company? Lol, under what authority?
Do you actually think the government can run around fining companies for made up things? Do you think a Judge wouldn't throw out any attempt or even retaliate against the government by fining the government for exceeding authority?
You are very naive.
Elon is simply making friends for his next pet project.
Well obviously you pass legislation first that gives the government the right to fine companies that don't move stuff out the way on time when formally requested to do so, problem fixed. I am not in the slightest naÃve.
If you could even get the law passed assume they did, there is a major project a fine issued, the utility company raises rates, when people complain they blame the law that allows them to be fined, a week later the law is revoked. In actuality any attempt to pass such a law would result in one of the largest publicity blitzes by Utility companies you'd ever have seen.
In reality any attempt to issue a fine would be litigated, the costs of the litigation would far exceed any additional costs or schedule slips. The courts are NOT friendly to perceived government bullying. Even cases where you have zero controversy such as ROW acquisition are frequently litigated. This doesn't even include things like lawsuits filed by groups like the Sierra club that lengthen schedules.
And you most certainly are Naive to think there is a solution that hasn't already been tried. The fact is you just don't understand the business or it's constraints but you feel you are qualified to make judgements about what is or isn't appropriate schedule delays. Do you often feel you are an expert in fields you have no experience in?