Florida Teen Expelled and Arrested For Science Experiment

First time accepted submitter ruhri writes "A 16 year-old girl in Florida not only has been expelled from her high school but also is being charged as an adult with a felony after replicating the classic toilet-bowl cleaner and aluminum foil experiment. This has quite a number of scientists and science educators up in arms. The fact that she's African American and that the same assistant state attorney has decided not to charge a white teenager who accidentally killed his brother with a BB gun has some thinking whether this is a case of doing science while black."

Comments

Playing the race card again

[DNS-and-BIND]

There we go, playing the race card. Sigh. What does a kid with a BB gun have to do with this? Nothing, but it "creates the narrative". We all know what the narrative is, race race race. It's always first on the list and it always gets shoehorned in even if it doesn't belong. Everyone sees it but due to the mainstream media's gatekeeper role nobody can talk back. This is why Americans distrust the media, with 60% saying they have little or no trust in the mass media to report the news fully, accurately, and fairly.

Re:Playing the race card again

[__aaltlg1547]

You could have responded without turning this into race rant yourself.

Re:Playing the race card again

[martas]

What does a kid with a BB gun have to do with this? Nothing, but it "creates the narrative".

Funny, if you drop the quotes, instead of "creating a narrative", the BB gun story actually creates a narrative. Namely a narrative where an ADA is out for blood in one instance of possibly reckless behavior from a child that didn't cause anybody any harm, but ignored another instance of possibly reckless behavior from a child that resulted in the loss of life. Whether this has anything to do with race is of secondary importance. The primary issue is the apparent lack of consistency in the severity of prosecution from this ADA.

Re:Playing the race card again

[serviscope_minor]

There we go, playing the race card.

Um yeah? That's the whole fucking point.

If you look at any of the myriad statistics linked from the articles the system is incredibly, systematically racist.

What does a kid with a BB gun have to do with this?

Because the DA was the same. Apparently that was a tragic accident but this is a serious felony.

Re:Playing the race card again

[Hatta]

Proportionality. That's what the kid with a BB gun has to do with this. An accidental death caused by a white boy gets no punishment. An accidental chemical hazard that kills no one, but is caused by a black girl gets charged with felonies. That's disproportionate. What exactly is the non-racist explanation for that lack of proportionality?

Re:Playing the race card again

[Anonymous Coward]

If you look at any of the myriad statistics linked from the articles the system is incredibly, systematically racist.

Or African-Americans have a shared culture that glorifies violence and celebrates street crime/being a thug, causing them to commit more violent crimes. Most human beings of any color have difficulty resisting the influence of a poisonous culture. The silly, stupid, moronic War on Some Drugs is where nearly all of the arrests of non-violent people are coming from.

Because the DA was the same. Apparently that was a tragic accident but this is a serious felony.

This should go nowhere because there was no criminal intent. This student did not intend to damage anything or hurt anyone. Far as I know, nothing was damaged and no one was hurt. If we are going to have Prohibition against "unauthorized chemical reactions" just like we do against "altering your consciousness in unauthorized ways" then let's call it what it is.

Re:Playing the race card again

[ebno-10db]

I used to dismiss things like "driving while black" until, after a fracas about one such incident in New Jersey, several NJ state troopers came forward and said that it was "unofficial" policy. It's also been statistically documented. If I knew I was more likely to get pulled over because of the color of my skin, I'd be damn resentful for the rest of my life. Want an ever better example? Check out the racial stats on Mayor-for-life "Bill of Rights No Longer Applies" Bloomberg's stop and frisk police state program. Also, given how absurd the government's reaction is, I don't blame anyone for playing the race card or using any other trick to do something about this. I thought it was a temporary suspension, which is no big deal, but apparently she "will be forced to complete her diploma through an expulsion program". WTF? Given the absurdity of "zero tolerance" (aka "zero brains") policies, the principal may have little choice. He did say she meant no harm. But being charged with a felony? WTF? Nobody was hurt. Nobody was likely to be hurt. Schoolyard fights have bigger physical consequences. Since the state has prosecutorial discretion, forget any nonsense about them not having any choice. If I'd been prosecuted this way for some of the "experiments" my brothers and I did as teenagers, I'd be doing life.

Re:Playing the race card again

[Mashiki]

You could have responded without turning this into race rant yourself.

If it's one thing that I've noticed about the US, especially the left and democrats is that they're hung up on race, all race related stuff all the time. And the more racist it is, the better. Because that means ratings! Then again, you guys have groups dedicated to nothing but race, and creating new race issues where someone with an ounce of commonsense would throw up their hands in disgust at an issue.

Re:Playing the race card again

[h4rr4r]

I would say one could easily lead to the other.

Much like a troubled child does not fear suspension/detention/principals office visits, once you incarcerate enough people a society is no longer going to see that as being outside the norm.

Via the War on (some) Drugs we have made sure that prison is merely a fact of life for many subcultures and no longer out of the norm or to be feared. The War on these drugs is one of the most racist policies we have, NYCs stop and frisk statistics show this as do prosecution rates. A nice middle class kid in college busted for possession is going to get a stern talking too and maybe a visit from the police, a poor kid relaxing after work is going to jail.

Re:Playing the race card again

[DudeTheMath]

Thirty years ago, my high school chemistry teacher taught our (A.P.) class how to make some explosives. What better way to effectively demonstrate exothermic reactions?

The fact that this nonsense is also occurring in what (IIRC) is the Florida county with the highest teen pregnancy rate is further reinforcement of my belief that, despite all the "STEM! STEM! STEM!" cries, corporate-owned America really wants to keep most people sick and stupid. They've taken a girl who showed some interest and aptitude in real lab science and effectively put her on a welfare track.

Re:Playing the race card again

[h4rr4r]

The democrats are a center right party, we have no left party. The US has huge institutionalized race problems. You can simply compare punishments for the same crime meted out by our justice system to prove that.

Re:Playing the race card again

[Dr. Zim]

If I'd been prosecuted this way for some of the "experiments" my brothers and I did as teenagers, I'd be doing life.

No kidding. We'd be under the jail. There used to be a time in this great land of ours when kids could play with things like black powder, acetylene, and sodium and all we'd get is a finger wag by the authorities and maybe have to pay for a trash can we would turn inside out.

Re:Playing the race card again

[martas]

The way I interpreted the summary is as follows: "Case A wasn't prosecuted, case B was. Case B was less deserving of prosecution than case A. One difference between the two cases is attribute R, which should not have any bearing on the decision to prosecute, but in practice often does (as is quite well documented). Hence, it is worth questioning whether this is one of the instances where attribute R is incorrectly used to decide matters regarding criminal justice".

That seems quite reasonable to me.

Re:Playing the race card again

[Nyder]

What does a kid with a BB gun have to do with this? Nothing, but it "creates the narrative".

Funny, if you drop the quotes, instead of "creating a narrative", the BB gun story actually creates a narrative. Namely a narrative where an ADA is out for blood in one instance of possibly reckless behavior from a child that didn't cause anybody any harm, but ignored another instance of possibly reckless behavior from a child that resulted in the loss of life. Whether this has anything to do with race is of secondary importance. The primary issue is the apparent lack of consistency in the severity of prosecution from this ADA.

I have an older sister, and she would of gladly shot me in the head with a BB gun growing up. It would of gone well with the other crap she did to her little brother growing up.

Not saying this girl did it on purpose, but I'm sure I'm not the only person who had a cruel older sibling.

Re:Playing the race card again

[Anonymous Coward]

What's even funnier is how you seem to conveniently ignore the fact that one incident was admittedly intentional, while the other was an obvious accident. Intentional acts get prosecuted, especially those that involve dangerous, explosive devices detonated on school grounds. If you take off the blinders, you might actually see the facts.

Re:Playing the race card again

[moeinvt]

"What exactly is the non-racist explanation"

1. The incidents have nothing to do with each other
2. The circumstances are not even remotely similar
3. One was on school property, the other not
4. One was apparently an accident while the other was deliberate
5. People are absolutely paranoid about improvised explosives after the Boston thing

I completely agree that the kid is getting shafted, but put the damned race cards away.

Re:Playing the race card again

[h4rr4r]

Right wing dictators the world over and throughout history disagree with you.

Re:Playing the race card again

[ebno-10db]

You're talking about the school's reaction. The far more egregious issue is charging her with a felony, which is something the school has no say in. This is more about police overreaction and DA's whose only interest is self-aggrandizement. Law, justice, or even sanity be damned. What do you think happened to Aaron Swartz?

Re:Playing the race card again

[Penguinisto]

The way I interpreted the summary is as follows: "Case A wasn't prosecuted, case B was. Case B was less deserving of prosecution than case A. One difference between the two cases is attribute R [...]

(Emphasis mine)

Therein lies the problem: "One" difference. Thing is, there are likely a whole host of differences in the two cases. I'm not saying that either case should or should not be prosecuted, but I am saying that if the two are going to be compared, then how about including more pertinent contrasts than the blindingly obvious subtext of 'he's white and she's black'? You know, contrasts like circumstance, motive, intent...?

Re:Playing the race card again

[ildon]

You might as well try to argue that because one child was a boy and the other a girl, that this story is evidence of sexism.

The more pertinent differences are:
1. One was an accident and one was intentional.
2. One will be perceived by the public as involving a bomb and one will be perceived by the public as involving a gun or possibly even a "toy."
3. There was a recent very public bombing. To fail to prosecute in what could be perceived by the public as a "bombing" case could cause negative political pressure against the DA. Despite the recent public shootings, there are many with a lot of political clout who would see prosecution of a BB gun incident as a move toward stricter gun control and act against it.

I'd say these factors likely weighed a lot more heavily than either child's race. I may not agree that they should be considered factors, and I find it likely that this case will be thrown out, but I have a feeling that if the children's races were reversed (or the same), the situation would remain identical, except we wouldn't have to listen to idiotic stories about how the DA is "racist."

Re:Playing the race card again

[AlphaWolf_HK]

I'm probably going to be crucified for this, but I think he has a good point. There's nothing anywhere to indicate that blacks are genetically more prone to violence on any level. There is nothing anywhere to indicate that they are inherently inferior. However one thing that does stand out is black culture in the US. Note how different it is in the US compared to everywhere else in the world.

First generation or recent generation black Americans tend to be some of the most dignified people I know, and that includes blacks who have served in the military. But the ones who have been here for numerous generations, especially the inner city ones, are more often than not a bunch of douchebags. Many among them literally call having good grades "acting white" and look down upon it.

Again, the mere fact that they're black doesn't predicate them into being that way. However they themselves are equally guilty of establishing the stereotype that they behold. To blame everything on white people doesn't do anything to fix the problem, not to mention is just an asshole thing to do.

Re:Playing the race card again

[Archangel Michael]

You are close. The (D) and (R) parties are working in cahoots to increase tyranny upon the people. They pit group against group, color against color, sex against sex etc. They present you with a false dichotomy of choice and work together to the enslavement of the people.

Obama isn't worse than Bush, he isn't better either, he is the same, pushing the same agenda. All you have to do is watch what he does, and pay no attention to what he says. This makes it worse than GWB, because the Press/Media is largely in his pocket with a tingling down their legs.

There are a few (D) and (R) types that are starting to see through the charade being played and are ridiculed for going off the reservation. I just wish people would wake up, but I am afraid it is too late.

Re:Playing the race card again

[blueturffan]

How about interpreting it this way. "Case A wasn't prosecuted, Case B was. At first glance, Case B appears to be less deserving of prosecution than Case A, but Case B took place on school property. In Case B there was clearly intent to create an explosion and given recent high-visibility events involving 1) kids being murdered at a school, and 2) innocent bystanders being killed/maimed by an explosion it is predictable that any explosion at a school will be highly scrutinized. Furthermore, in Case B, the so-called experiment appears to have been done without supervision, permission or any safeguards making the "experiment" excuse seem unlikely. Additionally, schools have published weapons policies and zero-tolerance policies, with mandatory consequences for violation. Had Case B taken place away from school property and/or under controlled conditions, it is extremely unlikely that Case B would have been prosecuted."

Note the complete absence of Attribute R. Also note that there was no judgment on the merits of the school's policies. As the parent of a student that was suspended for a zero-tolerance policy violation that even the principal thought was ridiculous, I have strong feelings about zero-thought policies, but that's a rant for another day.

Re:Playing the race card again

[tmosley]

The right-left spectrum is a bit one dimensional, don't you think?

Fact is that both parties in the US are FASCIST, not right wing. There is a very large difference, as at least the right wing allows significant economic freedom.

Re:Playing the race card again

[h4rr4r]

Fascism may look like communism and even have similar attributes but they are fundamentally different.

Calling them the same is ignorance.

Communism requires that the people own the means of production. Corporatism is essentially the means of production owning the people.

Re:Playing the race card again

[tehcyder]

The reason that the US is hung up on race, is because of the appalling history of racism in the US. The only possible argument is about how much of a change for the better there has been.

To pretend that racism has completely faded away is to ignore reality, however uncomfortable it may make some people feel.

Re:Playing the race card again

[tehcyder]

Castro yes, Chavez no.

Chavez I don't think goes to the level of dictator. He was elected and using elections no worse than many precincts in America stayed in power. He was definitely authoritarian though.

Yes, I think you're a pretty pathetic dictator if you rely on the democratic will of the people.

Castro and Cuba are an odd example, because they were basically forced to become paranoid thanks to the US's economic embargo and earlier attempst to overthrow Castro. They are in a similar position to Israel, i.e. with implacable enemies at very close range.

Re:Playing the race card again

[tehcyder]

how about including more pertinent contrasts than the blindingly obvious subtext of 'he's white and she's black'? You know, contrasts like circumstance, motive, intent...?

So you think that the black girl had deeply sinister motives/intents in highly dubious circumstances, whereas the white kid was self-evidently just involved in some light-hearted play that went wrong?

There's a word for those sort of assumptions.

Re:Playing the race card again

[lgw]

Hitler really was a socialist during his rise to power. It wasn't just the party name. As has often been said, had he been killed in a car accident halfway through his reign, he would have been remembered as a great statesman. He led the way in Europe on thinks like minimum wage, social security, universal health care, the whole progressive agenda. He gave the people what they wanted, for as long as there was money to give them.

You seem to have confused "authoritarian" with "right wing". They're separate axes.

Re:Playing the race card again

[T.E.D.]

It is standard practice. Charge as much as you can possibly get away with and plea bargain down from there.

In that case, why wasn't the "standard practice" applied to the boy?

Re:Playing the race card again

[scot4875]

but your saying the "war on drugs" is "racist" is telling me that drugs usage has a racial component, and that people of that race have a predisposition to using said drugs, based upon their race

No, that's not what he's saying. He's saying that the *prosecution* of "some" drugs has a predisposition for targeting certain demographics. You've got to be willfully ignorant at this point to not know this fact by now, and to top it off you add a nice little lie on top by constructing a strawman to attack. "nuh uh! ur the racist!" Nicely done.

Here's a hint: acknowledging statistical facts about a demographic is not the same thing as discrimination against that demographic. Creating policies that target a certain demographic's behavior while ignoring another demographic's similar (but distinct) behavior *is* discriminatory. Going after the reefer while ignoring the tobacco is purely discriminatory.

And this has fuck all to do with a race's supposed "predisposition" for using a certain drug. That's a bald-faced strawman and you know it.

--Jeremy

Re:Playing the race card again

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Thing is, there are likely a whole host of differences in the two cases."

OK. How about she was a straight A student and he wasn't?

"You know, contrasts like circumstance, motive, intent...?"

I'm pretty sure those were covered. For example, she was exploring science and he wasn't. Her motive was to learn; his wasn't. She intended to be better at science; he didn't. As you can clearly see all those other differences point more strongly at a bias, and exploring those things makes it more likely that "she was black and he wasn't" is the big difference that the DA actually cares about.

Re:Playing the race card again

[T.E.D.]

"Obvious" in what way? The girl said she was expecting some smoke from her chemical reaction, not a (very small) explosion. The boy said he thought the gun wasn't loaded, but admitted to puposely aiming at the other kid's head and pulling the trigger. So what exactly, besides the skin color difference, makes one more "obvious" than the other?

Re:Playing the race card again

[ebno-10db]

The boy had no intent. It was an ACCIDENTAL shooting.

And you're not mentioning that the mother and the boyfriend aren't being charged with endangering the life of a child by letting a 10 y.o. and a 13 y.o. shoot BB guns at each other.

In the real world you need permission to do things that will explode

But you don't need permission to shoot someone in the head?

Public schools have morphed into

[hsmith]

Jails for the mind. NCLB has ruined education, by far GWB worst piece of policy. That coupled with "zero tolerance" which equates to "no thinking by staff" we are ruining a generation of kids. Teaching to tests, which NCLB does prohibits this kind of "thinking" to experiment.

I'd have a rap sheet a mile long if I was in school and I only graduated 14y ago. And I didn't even do anything bad!

Re:Public schools have morphed into

[causality]

That coupled with "zero tolerance" which equates to "no thinking by staff" we are ruining a generation of kids.

At least we are teaching them that those with authority and political power are not to be trusted.

Knee Jerk Yoyo

[Anonymous Coward]

School authorities in Florida have always been on the retarded side of the coin. Suspending or expelling kids for this kind of thing is really disgusting. God it is depressing. I went to school in Florida and was lucky that most of my teachers were good at their jobs. But those above teachers in the school food chain are some of the worst creeps you could ever imagine.

America has become pussy nation

[Lawrence_Bird]

America is a bunch of pussies now. Had something like this happened in the 50s-80s..maybe even the 90s, the result would have been a stern reprimand and at most a couple days suspension. This "Daddy" syndrome needs to end. I doubt even the French would freak out the way the school and DA have.

Weapon

[SJHillman]

So now anything that blows up is automatically a weapon? I hope their school buses don't run on gas or diesel engines, then they would have to charge all the bus drivers with bringing weapons to school every day.

This is almost as stupid as suspending a 7 year old for having a pastry that's vaguely gun-shaped.
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2013/03/pastry-gun.html

What science?

[Keith Mickunas]

Was this really a science experiment? She was mixing household chemicals in a plastic bottle on school property. It had nothing to do with her science class. It's more likely she got this stuff out of the janitor's closet or something like that. It sounds more like a kid being stupid rather than one experimenting.

Not that I agree with the penalty in any way. Detention or suspension would be ok here since no real harm came from it. It doesn't merit police involvement, or comparison to an accidental shooting.

Re:What science?

[ozydingo]

On the one hand, you're right, and calling it a "science project" and a s"science fair experiment" is playing with language.

On the other hand, since when should science encompass things only inside science class? Whether the experiment was "does the explosion really happen?" (as claimed), or "how will people react to this awesome explosion" (also likely), it's still no stretch to call it science. So the one thing I disagree with you on is this apparent dismissal.

But, I think overall you and I are in agreement. In my view there is are appropriate and inappropriate place to do such an experiment where you have an idea that the result might be something like an explosion. Maybe doing this type on one's own on school grounds is inappropriate -- though I'm sure there are arguments to be made on both sides for that statement. But does it deserve zero-tolerance, expulsion, and a criminal charge of a 15-year-old as an adult? I can't imagine anyone would think so (though, apparently, some do...)

Re:Lets not

[T.E.D.]

I'd like to believe that too. I really would.

So explain to me how a white teenager who shoots and kills his brother doesn't deserve to be charged with anything, while the same prosecutor decides that a black teenager who didn't injure anyone needs an adult felony conviction to show her that "there are consequences to actions.".

Perhaps they aren't being racist on purpose, but that's hardly a consolation to the student. Sufficently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

Re:Florida

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but schools are run by bed wetting morons all over the country.

But you keep going with that shit because I believe we should clearly know who all the stupid fucking morons are.

Re:Every boy used to do this

[bleh-of-the-huns]

She is being tried as an adult, as such, the records will not be sealed. She is unfortunately fucked for life if she is found guilty...

And I really hope that whatever judge gets this case, tosses it out for stupidity reasons, and bitch slaps the educational establishment for this travesty.

Re:a chemical explosion in a school bathroom is ok

[jbmartin6]

Not many are saying that punishment isn't warranted. The problem is that the police were involved at all, that's the ridiculous part. Frankly if the police and DA have time to get involved in this sort of thing layoffs are long past due in this district.

Three Minutes on Youtube...

[bistromath007]

...tells me that it is massively unlikely this was intellectual curiosity. Some kid thought it would be funny to make a huge bang at a place where huge bangs are known to cause massive administrative overreaction.

When I first read this, I thought it was horrible. One of the articles linked in the story here called it a botched experiment. What kind of loony racist throws the book so hard at a kid who messed up a project? Then I went looking for the "experiment" and learned there was pretty much definitely nothing botched about this. Youtube is full of works bombs, which is apparently what these are called. A popular chemistry blog I stumbled into explains these are actually illegal to make. And I really don't see what else you could do with these components.

Now, this kid certainly doesn't deserve to be tried as an adult for multiple felonies just because they made a total dipshit choice that hurt nobody. But what's going on here is just usual-business prosecutorial excess, not racism. Ruining dumb high school kids' lives is practically what these fuckers live for lately, regardless of skin tone.

what makes it fun

[SkunkPussy]

Its exactly that kind of stuff that got me into chemistry in the first place

Re:a chemical explosion in a school bathroom is ok

[Hatta]

No one is saying it's OK. We're saying it's not a felony. Make the kid clean up the mess and suspend her for a week. Problem solved.

Excessive criminalization is a much bigger threat to us all than kids with drano bombs.

Re:this is sad, just sad...

[xclr8r]

When you have zero tolerance policies then rightly or wrongly administrators and educators think they have no agency in the matter. Also educators don't have control of the police force they have welcomed into their own school. *DA's and AGs are political animals in "some" cases and this is just a stepping stone to bigger things so riding rough trod over people's lives will not be swayed.

Re:Lets not

[SirGarlon]

Speaking of double standards, I think it's rather unfair to jump to the conclusion that the DA charged her because she's black. You'd need to show a history of bias to make an insinuation like that less than libelous. The Huffington Post op-ed makes loud protestations that it's not accusing anyone of anything, which might be enough to avert a libel charge. It does fall far short of decency, though. Mr. Lava makes no attempt to consider other possible differences between the cases of the white boy and the black girl, like the age difference between the kids or the fact that the BB gun accident happened at home and the chemistry accident happened at school.

Gateway drugs

[tepples]

What exactly is the non-racist explanation for that lack of proportionality?

Think "war on drugs" logic. This chemistry experiment ended up producing what is technically an improvised explosive device, and IEDs like this are a "gateway drug" of sorts to IEDs that terrorists have used within the past month to kill or maim dozens of people.

Re:Florida

[drakaan]

I'm thinking it has more to do with a heightened public sensitivity to bomb-making in the wake of the Boston Marathon bombing...

Re:What the hell...

[moeinvt]

They needed a "racist" slant on the article, so they found a completely unrelated incident where a white person did something "bad" and was not charged. The "obvious" conclusion therefore is that this teen's expulsion and arrest is CLEARLY motivated by racism, regardless of the details.

Re:Lets not

[thewolfkin]

Lets not attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity.

And in this case, I hardly believe its about one being black,although it could play a part, it beingthe us,it seems more a thing about one being gun related and the other science related.

We all know what many americans hate most.

While there is a theory for that, it doesn't line up with the statements released. They're specifically citing the dangerous nature of the girls activities and the hallowed ground aspects of a school along with actions need consequences. I'm all for punishing the girl. Having actually read a few of the articles she did something stupid. Detention would be light. A suspension for a few days should be the most she gets in my opinion. Expulsion and charges are extremely overboard and charging her as an adult comes out of nowhere, considering both the lack of malice, the lack of injury, and uprightness of the accused. She didn't run away she was there when they came for her and owned up for her actions. She had support from students, teachers, and the principal directly. If this isn't a case for SOME sort of leniency what is?

Re:Florida

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of Florida is not "The South." Anyone here who lives in an urban or suburban area is more likely a transplant from New York than a "Southerner."

Why isn't it science?

[Anonymous Coward]

I once mixed ammonia and bleach on school property as an undergrad, just to see what would happen. That's called curiosity.

To say it wasn't a science experiment because it "had nothing to do with my science class" is to undercut what education is all about - making you curious enough to try stuff on your own.

Re:Florida

[i kan reed]

I think you may be missing the point of condemning racism if you find it acceptable to casually condemn an entire region as being of similar mind. That said, the south wouldn't have as much trouble with racism as it does, if it weren't for the pervasive denial of racist things as racist. So don't take my post as defending that.

It's an experiment now?

[GameboyRMH]

I've seen this news elsewhere and Slashdot was the first place to call it a science experiment. I guess it could be, in the same sense as a Diet Coke & Mentos experiment or an "effects of flour on your best friend's head" experiment.

What's being done to her is completely ridiculous and she deserves nothing more than maybe a nasty look and a mild talking-to, but let's not stoop to yellow geek journalism

Re:It's an experiment now?

[GameboyRMH]

You could say the same of popping a paper bag between your hands, where do you draw the line between "bomb" and "harmless fun thing that goes pop?"

My son was expelled for...

[Anonymous Coward]

My now 17 year old Son was expelled from high school two years ago for... get this... popping a regular old helium balloon. He was charged with Disorderly Conduct (the catch-all "when we want to charge you with something" summary crime in Pennsylvania) but we managed to get that dismissed at the Magisterial District Court after about $15,000 in legal fees, most of which was spent trying to obtain school surveillance video showing that the balloon popped when he leaned up against a wall, pinching the balloon between his backpack and the wall, causing it to pop.

We've home-schooled him since then. It's truly amazing how absolutely brain-dead our government has become. It really does destroy everything it touches, including the education system.

As the saying goes, "zero tolerance = zero common sense"

Re:Florida

[Anonymous Coward]

Florida's as much of the South as New York

Re:Florida

[Anonymous Coward]

This has nothing to do with religion. This is the fault of so-called "educators." They have become thoughtless, lazy, and self centered. Don't think so? They pass these so-called zero tolerance policies and blindly enforce them. It lets them discipline anyone for the slightest infraction so that they don't have to deal with the real issue of discipline within their own classrooms. It's far easier, from a teacher's perspective, to get a kid suspended or expelled rather than having to deal with discipline and the child's parents. In my school district, these zero tolerance policies are used in to go after the really bad kids instead of instead of going after them for the real issues. The attitude of most teachers and administrators is that so what if an innocent kid gets caught up in the rules, rules are rules. It's just easier to follow the rules than it is to enforce the spirit of them. It's amazing that educators just aren't thinking.

I think it's great that some teachers spoke up for this kid, but the union and the board should do this as well.

I also blame parents, but the parents of this kid are the problem. IT's the problem kids that have the loudest screaming parents only because if their kid gets suspended they have to take vacations days to watch them.

Honestly, I can't stand the way we treat kids today. We say they're important and then do everything we can to show them they aren't.

       

Re:Lets not

[SternisheFan]

She's a kid 'screwing around', same as my friends and I would do as teenagers. Everything's a crime nowadays, and this YouTube video shows what she propably did...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUudTpSvudg

Makes a "Bang!" noise, that's all. Give her detention for doing it on school grounds, don't let her get a record that'll keep her from getting a future education. She's a smart and curious young person, that's all.

Re:Lets not

[T.E.D.]

You still aren't explaining, without using race, how one kid who broke the law needs to have the most extreme charges possible filed agasint her, while another who broke a much more serious law (manslaughter) gets nothing.

The thing I find particularly telling is that nobody involved is arguing that this is just. The argument is that a law was technically broken, so they have no choice but to charge her. So why doesn't that argument apply to both people?

Re:Florida

[Toonol]

I think you may be missing the point of condemning racism if you find it acceptable to casually condemn an entire region as being of similar mind.

Exactly, and that goes on a lot, even among otherwise intelligent people. "That *large diverse group* is so bigoted!"

Not only are comments like that repulsive because of their innate stupidity, they're harmful because they are recasting the basic elements of racism and bigotry in a more socially tolerable guise, against a group that the poster feels it's OK to condemn based on stereotypes.

And I'm not from the south, so this isn't defensiveness. It's irritation. Just think about what you say.

Re:Every boy used to do this

[MickyTheIdiot]

Don't count on it...

Re:Lets not

[wvmarle]

I also wonder how it is even possible to charge a 16yo as an adult. Those age limits are put in place for a reason - arbitrarily lifting them because some kid did something "exceptionally stupid" makes them worthless.

And this is really not something that should be punished at all. Other than for doing it on school grounds, presumably without proper supervision and safety measures.

Re:Florida

[jellomizer]

However I can see the same thing happening in up where "All dose Yankees live" It is part of the dumbing down of our system of discipline.

Our system has been so intent of getting the bad guys that they are willing to let hundreds of innocent people go to jail vs letting one real criminal go free.

We spend more time trying to find ways to get kids kicked out of school and or locked up in prison. Then we do trying to keep kids in school and out of prison. We are all humans and we make mistakes. If we don't make mistakes, we don't learn from them. Does that mean that there are no consequences, no. They are consequences but they don't mean permanent marks on your life for getting caught for making a simple mistake.

For this teen, It probably should have lead to Detention, or perhaps up to a week suspension, because setting off unsupervised explosions (even small ones) is wrong. But being that didn't cause any damage, or was meant to the punishment should face that fact.

Her biggest mistake was that she wasn't a big football player, if that was the case she would have gone off with a kids will be kids and ignored.

Re:Florida

[operagost]

There is no evidence this has anything to do with religion, and you know it. Your vile attempt to inject your pet cause into this important issue is disrespectful to the student and doesn't serve anyone except yourself.

Re:Florida

[JWW]

Your last line is spot on.

Zero tolerance policies are for zero brained educators.

Re:Not a science experiment

[BLKMGK]

No it wasn't, this experiment was done outside. The police report clearly states this if you had bothered to read. When I was a kid I did the same thing with dry ice and water as well as vinegar and baking soda. Water and baking powder were also interesting but pretty weak. Friends did all sorts of stuff with powdered iodine. All of us turned out just fine, we didn't have our lives ruined or curiosity killed. My teachers wouldn't have allowed me to do this but they might have demonstrated the reaction to our class as they did many other things. We're destroying our kids...

Re:a chemical explosion in a school bathroom is ok

[FireFury03]

I had dinner with a H.S. teacher recently and I was amazed at how things have changed. For example, it's now SOP for them to call the police when two kids get into a FIGHT. Even a basic fistfight with no weapons and no serious injuries. "Ridiculous" is right.

How does a kid being bullied not count as assault? Certainly when I was at school there was a lot of bullying going on and the school simply didn't care (even when people inevitably ended up injured). Whilst I'll agree that the first port of call should be for it to be handled internally in the school, if that doesn't work shouldn't the police be involved if only for the protection of the kids on the receiving end?

Re:Florida

[jodido]

As Malcolm X said, "Don't talk to me about the South. The South starts at the Canadian border." Google "stop and frisk New York City" for further evidence. Any other attitude is liberal smugness.

Re:A "science fair experiment"?

[mapsjanhere]

No, it wasn't a science fair project, it was teenagers playing around in the bathroom at 7 am before school starts making a big bang for kicks and youtube. It was as much science as it was racism.

Re:Florida

[neonKow]

Yes, but the school is supposed to be the a source of wisdom and knowledge for developing adults. Instead of being the voice of reason that acknowledges and points out the heightened sensitivity to the child (and yes, a 16-year-old is still very much a child when it comes to making non-malicious mistakes like this), and teaches her to exercise better judgement, the school system is teaching her that if her curiosity leads her to accidentally crossing the line on what will freak out parents, the who system will come down on her and try to throw the book at her.

Although, after reading what I just wrote, that's probably a pretty accurate and depressing lesson of our current paranoid state. Still, I don't think kids should be subjected to such treatment.

Re:Florida

[Anonymous Coward]

I am fed up with people who do not know basic statistics and who want falsely "protect" groups.

It is ok to condemn groups. Speaking of groups or stereotypes is equivalent to stating group statistics.

Stereotypes is what makes us reason about groups.

A stereotype is a bad name given to group statistics. There is nothing bad about stereotypes.

What is wrong is to assume an individual represents a group. Thus assuming that group statistics apply to the individual.

This is discrimination. That's what you should be looking out for.

All statements regarding groups are statistical in nature.

Re:Florida

[supercrisp]

I could agree with you if you replaced most instances of "educators" with "administrators"; teachers generally aren't the ones setting these policies. It's school boards and, more often, politicians. As you note, and as the article says: it's teachers who are sticking up for this kid. And the only people who stand to benefit from this are politicians making hay with the baser elements of their base.

Re:Florida

[tompaulco]

I've personally encountered a lot of bigotry in the south. Am I not allowed to say so, or to notice?
I've encountered bigotry in the north and in the south. I know it can be hard for anyone not a white male to get a job at a small business. It is also difficult for anyone who IS a white male to get a job at a large company. It works both ways. As long as we enforce quotas and give preference to a group, no matter who the group is, that is racism.

Unintended discovery

[SirGarlon]

The girl wanted to find out what happens if she mixes aluminum and drain cleaner. Her findings: under the experimental conditions (unsupervised, on school property, post-9/11), there is a fizz and a bang, a bunch of adults overreact, and you get charged with a felony. :-(

Forget the Race Issue Here

[smack.addict]

I do think the race issue is worth discussing. As well as the gender issue.

But there's something more fundamental and less likely to stoke passions at play here:

DOING SCIENCE IS ABOUT MAKING MISTAKES. Her "punishment" should be to write a paper on what she was trying to do and why the results were not what she expected. Simple, end of story.

There should be no real punishment of any kind, much less the over the top expulsion and arrest.

The simple fact is that she should be encouraged to make mistakes, not punished for them. And the most basic problem we are dealing with is that our school systems don't understand this fact.

Re:Florida

[LateArthurDent]

Oh, please. I have brown skin living in South Carolina, and have never encountered any racism.

That's nice for you. In other news, the US has a black President, and recently had a female Secretary of State, so obviously there's neither racism nor sexism anywhere in the country.

Truly, America is a land of wonders.

Pretty much, yes.

I'm not saying racism and sexism doesn't exist. But if it's possible for people of all races and genders to live their lives without discrimination, then we, as a society, don't have a racism problem. Not having a racism problem doesn't mean that you're never going to encounter discrimination every once in a while. It means those cases of discrimination are due to individual fuckwads. In the same way that there will always be morons who think killing people watching a marathon is a good idea, or shooting up an elementary school fool of kids is a good idea. Individual fuckwads will always exist, but as long as their actions isn't met with acceptance and encouragement from our society, it's not a problem with our society.

Re: Florida

[iamhassi]

seems everyone needs to RTFA: "The assistant principal called police after talking to Wilmot's science teacher and determining he didn't know about the experiment."

assistant principal hears explosion, sees smoke, runs over and student claims "bomb" is science experiment. Seems reasonable, but teacher knows nothing about it. Of course expell student and possibly charge with crime, after all the things that have been going on recently at schools the school would be neglectful if they didn't expell student and call the police. Would a student be expelled and police notified for bringing a "harmless" BB gun to school or firecrackers? Of course, so should this student. But I'm a little perplexed why skin color was brought into this, or why a story of an accidental death has anything to do with this. People die all the time accidentally and it is not always a crime. Seems submitter is focused on racism rather than just looking at what happened and determining if punishment fit the crime.

Re:Florida

[Sigmon]

Here here! In Arkansas -most- folks generally get along pretty well. Instances of racism are encountered occasionally... but rarely in my experience (I'm pretty pale-skinned). In any event, although pockets of racism may be found in a wide-spread geographic distribution, one doesn't generally find institutional-type discrimination anymore here in the 'South'... You'll run into an occasional crack-pot (of any color) here or there... but I've personally encountered a seemingly - alarmingly - high incidence of racist white folks up north. Once on a business trip with a black co-worker of mine, we even encountered somebody who, apparently, had never met a black person face-to-face before. So, I'm quite disappointed when I hear people - who likely live in the North - make disparaging remarks of how racist white people in the south are.

It's also important to note - there are many geographic regions here in the South where a white person is the minority... I've been to many of those places in my travels. Some of them are the most welcoming environments I've ever visited... Other places, I'll walk into a gas station, restaurant, or what have you... and all of the black folks just stare at me. So, it goes both ways... Your mileage may vary, however, depending on where you go. :-)

Re:Florida

[GodfatherofSoul]

I'm calling *BULLSHIT* on you. I was born in South Carolina and maybe 90% of my family still lives there. For you to say you've *never* seen racism makes you a statistical anomaly far on the tail end of the curve (unless you just stepped off a bus from the North to blog). Even if you're White, you're going to hear comments from people in "safe" company. Racism just doesn't *exist* in the South, it's institutional. It's baked into the culture like apple pie and Memorial Day sales. Even the way people get hired and promoted in small towns like my home town has a racially-motivated undercurrent that favors some.

And, for you to go further to say the US doesn't have much of a problem with racism has to mean you're trying to make a point for an agenda. Just because you've never seen a banana thrown on a NBA court means nothing. Google for some articles about the crap Black pro athletes in the US hear on a regular basis during games. Just because their aren't collective chants doesn't mean there aren't just as many a-holes in the crowds. I've lived in Europe for 7 years. Their flavor of racism is different; it's almost nationalism-based but I agree that they have their problems as well.

I wonder what you mean by "brown skin." Are you Italian? Indian?

I do agree that this story is more about anti-terrorism and overreaction. That you *do* have right.

Re: Florida

[tbannist]

Ok. I looked at the what happened and determined that the punishment does not fit the "crime". What she needs is a lecture on responsible chemical use, to have her parents called down to the school in the middle of the day and to be sent hom with a one or two day suspension (for her relatively minor recklessness). The goal is make sure she learns the lesson that she is not allowed to mix chemicals without supervision. Expulsion, on the other hand, certainly looks like behaviour of a cowardly administrator who looking to cover their ass.

The criminal charges are just stupid.