USAF Strips 17 Officers of Nuclear Launch Authority

Freshly Exhumed writes "In an unprecedented action, a United States Air Force commander has stripped 17 of his officers of their authority to control and launch nuclear missiles. After a string of failings that the group's deputy commander said stemmed from 'rot' within the ranks, the suspensions followed a March inspection of the 91st Missile Wing at Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota, that resulted in a 'D' grade for the team tested on its mastery of the Minuteman III missile launch operations system. The 17 are being assigned to intensive retraining courses of 60 to 90 days, according to Lt. Col. John Dorrian, an Air Force spokesman."

Comments

Take them out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

and replace them all with electronics.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[erotic_pie]

I think they made a movie about this, it didn't end well.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[h4rr4r]

Because clearly movies are our greatest source of knowledge about our universe.

Re: Take them out of the loop

[h2oliu]

One ended fine. As long as you can teach the system the only way to win is not to play.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

you idiot. Out of Slashdot NOW if you don't understand the joke.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Perhaps we could build a huge supercomputer called "Colossus" to take control. I hear Dr. Forbin is a sharp guy, he could be project lead...

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

and replace them all with electronics.

Yep, and then watch Colossus end the world. :)

Re:Take them out of the loop

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

"I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death."

Re:Take them out of the loop

[crankyspice]

“We've had men in those silos since before any of you guys were watching ‘Howdy Doody!’ Now I myself sleep pretty well knowing those boys are down there ... Mr. McKittrick, after very careful consideration, sir, I've come to the conclusion that your new [automated electronic] defense system sucks.” - Gen. Beringer.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[epyT-R]

so we'd be one component failure or software bug away from launch? no thanks. On something this critical, we need redundant humans pushing buttons and turning keys simultaneously..

Re: Take them out of the loop

[Lussarn]

Don't let it play Global thermonuclerar war for a decade though. It won't learn shit. Give it two minutes of tic-tac-toe, number of players zero, and it throws in the towel on the art of war completely. I know there is some kind of plot hole in here...

Re:Take them out of the loop

[istartedi]

replace them all with electronics.

I think that'd be a WOPR of a problem. I think maybe the parent knew that and expected us to get the reference.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Sponge Bath]

I love that movie. Gratuitous drinking, smoking and sex. Kind of like Mad Men but with homicidal super computers.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Dishevel]

I prefer something along the lines of Skynet.
Sounds much nicer.

Re: Take them out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

You have it backwards. Joshua played tic-tac-toe after loosing a single game of Defcon, learnt all that, then went back and played a bunch more Defcon, *then* through in the towel.
Did the flashing lights confuse you ?

Re:Take them out of the loop

[laron]

Yes, the end game was a draw, wasn't it?

Re:Take them out of the loop

[bruce_the_loon]

and replace them all with electronics.

Cyberdyne Systems Command and Control System Model Skynet 1.0.0 approves of this message.

Re: Take them out of the loop

[chromas]

Don't press this button.

Re: Take them out of the loop

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Don't let it play Global thermonuclerar war for a decade though. It won't learn shit. Give it two minutes of tic-tac-toe, number of players zero, and it throws in the towel on the art of war completely. I know there is some kind of plot hole in here...

It explains why the attempt to prevent SkyNet from destroying human civilization simply by having WOPR play the game with it failed. SkyNet saw through the holes in logic, and happily carried on. (Well, I imagine the dialog probably looked like M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead anyway...)

Re:Take them out of the loop

[stox]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project

Remake

Imagine Entertainment and Universal Studios confirmed that a remake titled Colossus, to be directed by Ron Howard, would be in production as of April 2007,[5] but was delayed for years. In October 2010, the project moved forward with the announcement that Will Smith will star in the lead role, with the script being written by James Rothenberg.[6] In July 2011, Variety reported that Universal replaced Rothenberg with Blake Masters of Law & Order: LA to do a new draft of the script.[7] On March 2013, it was announced that Ed Solomon, screenwriter of Men In Black and Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure has been brought on board to rewrite the film's script.[8]

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Obfuscant]

No. They lost Moscow; we lost New York, the President's wife, and Slim Pickens. But my, didn't Henry Fonda look swell as Mr. President, with J.R. Ewing translating.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Anthem1937]

"That's right, sir, you are the only person authorized to do so. And although I, uh, hate to judge before all the facts are in, it's beginning to look like, uh, General Ripper exceeded his authority." - General Turgidson to President Muffley

Re: Take them out of the loop

[The_Revelation]

Gentlemen, I wouldn't trust this overgrown pile of microchips any further than I could throw it. And I don't know if you want to trust the safety of our country to some silicon diode - General Beringer

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Joshua. He's still playing the game.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

1.0.0 was a little buggy. Better install the patches... just be aware that 1.0.4 removed Java support.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

One of my favourite movies. I never understood why it isn't better known

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

Oblivious? Or extremely good troll? Parent? You? or Me?

Re:Take them out of the loop

[mjwx]

At 04:58 on Wednesday 8 May Skynet became self aware. It started to post on slashdot and create cat memes at a geometric rate. In the panic, they tried to pull the plug.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[DigiShaman]

Wargames? I was thinking T2 (Skynet).

Re:Take them out of the loop

[dbIII]

I was thinking of "Colossus: The Forbin Project".

Re:Take them out of the loop

[dbIII]

create cat memes at a geometric rate

So it took cat posts not just up to 5, but Cat5e.

Re: Take them out of the loop

[10101001 10101001]

Or perhaps evidence about the stupidity of man? Who, after all, spent all the time and money developing war games computers just to either (a) "win" at Global Thermonuclear War or (b) never actually fight (yet still spend billions of dollars to achieve nothing)?

PS - Yea, I know you're just joking. But, to me the point is more sad than funny.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

We kind of already are since software is responsible for reporting if the other guy launched nukes at us, which will almost certainly result in us launching some back.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Man On Pink Corner]

Adding programmers to a late development project makes it later.

Adding writers to a late screenwriting project makes it worse.

Those are the closest things to genuine axioms in either field of endeavor.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

Wargames? I was thinking T2 (Skynet).

I was thinking Dr Strangelove first, Wargames second.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[cellocgw]

On something this critical, we need redundant humans pushing buttons and turning keys simultaneously.

Something which has repeatedly been shown to be achievable by one person with some string, spoons, rulers.. general McGyver stuff.
But more to the point of TFA itself: no matter what you do, anyone with enough brain cells to be able to read a launch code and type it into the console is going to be bored to death within a month or two at most of this job. Boredom leads to foulups. And then...

Re:Take them out of the loop

[painandgreed]

and replace them all with electronics.

Yep, and then watch Colossus end the world. :)

Actually, it was the aliens that threatened the world. In the later books (the movie was made from a book), we find out that Colossus detected the aliens and was trying to take over to protect against them, only to reveal that knowledge as he was being shut down. In the second book, the aliens took over and in the third book, they had to bring Colossus back to life to defeat the aliens and save the world.

Re:Take them out of the loop

[Anonymous Coward]

and out source this to Bangalore, India ...

Not a new problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I think these are the same units who allowed a nuclear bomb to be shipped accidentally from ND to ??Mississippi?? a few years ago.

Re:Not a new problem

[HaZardman27]

There were already a lot of people that were kicked out or forced into retirement after that. There were also some pretty significant structure reorganizations that followed.

Re:Not a new problem

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I think these are the same units who allowed a nuclear bomb to be shipped accidentally from ND to ??Mississippi?? a few years ago.

I, for one, shudder to think of Mississippi as a nuclear power...

Re:Not a new problem

[Anonymous Coward]

There were also some pretty significant structure reorganizations that followed.

Hence, Global Strike Command.

Re:Not a new problem

[PhxBlue]

They're not. These are ICBM launch officers -- the weapons that were transported from Minot to Barksdale (Louisiana) were carried aboard B-52s.

Re:Not a new problem

[MickyTheIdiot]

Kate Pierson and Fred Schneider were fairly pissed about that, too.

Re:Not a new problem

[idontgno]

Barksdale AFB, Louisiana, not Mississippi.

I don't think it was the same military units involved in both incidents. The 2007 incident was the 5th Bomb Wing, and this incident is the 91st Missile Wing. Technically, the 5th Bomb Wing is the host unit and the 91st is an independent tenant unit, since most of its weapons are off base.

But it's awkward and somewhat telling that both incidents, as well as some serious inspection failures in 2008 are on the same base. Or maybe that's just the base that's had the most serious scrutiny so far because it's established a reputation of needing scrutiny.

Re:Not a new problem

[Cenan]

Doesn't this concern anyone? I mean, failing an inspection once, sure. But repeatedly failing seems to suggest that "intensive training" might not be the solution someone sold it to be. Because it sure smells like someone sold someone else a truckload of bullshit and 17 guys took the fall for it.

Re:Not a new problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure. It is much better to have some overconfident berkingstock wearing liberal left coast elite who know nothing except that he is infinateley superiour to all those people south of the mason-dixon line because everyone knows that southerners are retarded and prejudiced against anyone who is not of the same ethnographic as they happen to be in charge of nuclear weapons.

-Just saying

Re:Not a new problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Dunno.... but the AF used to give out 'Missile Commander' scholarships like water.

Sign up, get money for college, and then spend two years buried in a hole.

I met a few of these guys in grad school, and being a grunt in a silo sucked pond water or worse.
Always understaffed and had low morale, and the usual chain-of-command abuses
of the peons. And it's not like there's much to do in Minot, SD, so the officers figured
everyone should be available 80 hours a week. Good luck getting a degree with
the nearest university far (90 miles?) away and random, capricious time demands.
Good luck finding anything interesting to do, or getting or keeping a life.

Unsurprisingly, it affects/affected a lot of people very badly.

Re:Not a new problem

[PhxBlue]

Gives a whole new meaning to "Love Shack," let me tell ya ...

Re:Not a new problem

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Your hurtful stereotypes wound me deeply. As a smirking east coast liberal elitist, I am only able to wear my Birkenstocks a few months out of the year, lest the cruel winter winds chill my delicate toes. Also, please keep in mind that (while liberals are required by union regulations to despise all practical knowledge except evilutionism), our culture has long prided itself on spending as many years as possible at expensive private universities and liberal arts colleges accruing detailed knowledge of the useless arts and humanities and indulging in depraved promiscuity. We work very hard to know as much as possible without crossing the lines into being capable of actual productivity.

As for Mississippi, it isn't the 'southern' that's the problem, it's the "scraping the bottom of the barrel among US states on an alarming number of measures" that's the problem.

Re:Not a new problem

[budgenator]

"intensive training" is a euphemism "A euphemism is a generally innocuous word or expression used in place of one that may be found offensive or suggest something unpleasant." and unpleasant is a euphemism for "A living hell designed to make magots like you 17 wish you were ever born"
For example, remember that some fell asleep on watch, so obviously they need intensive training on staying awake, so I for see many 20 hour training days over the 60 day training cycle. Imagine 4 days with only 16 hours total sleep, then sitting through a 4 hour lecture on nuclear security protocols and a hour long written exam on the same after lunch. Don't pass, don't worry, you can repeat the week twice, or you can resign.

Re:Not a new problem

[tnk1]

And don't forget the detail of having to take care of the civilization-ending weapons of mass destruction while bored out of your mind.

Re:Not a new problem

[Anonymous Coward]

So, you're saying these guys got in trouble for allowing their tin roof to be... rusted?

Re:Not a new problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Your hurtful stereotypes wound me deeply. As a smirking east coast liberal elitist . . .

That's humor - I can tell. ;)

Re:Not a new problem

[torsmo]

Just a slight correction, Minot is in North Dakota.

Re:Not a new problem

[Cenan]

You obviously missed the point so I'll spoon feed it to you just this once.

Sending 17 guys on "intensive training" is not a solution if this sort of thing has happened before. If it was a solution the "intensive training" would have helped the last time and this time would not exist. Doing this sort of thing publicly is called a FUCKING COVER UP. Someone is covering their ASS and THROWING 17 guys UNDER THE BUS for it.

For the point to work it doesn't fucking matter what "intensive training" is, or if it is even a physical thing. It could be a very abstract conecpt. All that matters is that it is being used (again) as a tool to try and calm YOU down, not fix THEIR problem.

Re:Not a new problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you racist against black people?

Re:Not a new problem

[pjt33]

We'll try to stay serene and calm

When Alabama gets the bomb!

Who's Next? by Tom Lehrer.

Re: Not a new problem

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I'm not concerned. I'm a former missile launch officer (hence the A/C post) and this is the system working as intended. This is, as others have commented, not the most glamorous position in the AF. You sit underground for 24 hours at a time once every 3 days praying you don't do what you're trained for. You also have simulator training monthly (or more) and other training. The level of detail needed to pass the evaluations is extremely high. One mistake in a critical section and you fail. This is something the AF takes seriously, as one might expect. We don't take chances with nukes.

Re:Not a new problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, mod it down, idiots. Live here for three years and see what happens. I've had good honest liberal folk approach me and tell me that they have to leave because if they stay they'll become racist - because that's how bad it is. Just because Jim Crow was an abomination on a Nazi scale doesn't mean that blacks here are worth your time. The whites mostly aren't, FWIW.

Logical consequence of having a pointless job.

[Anonymous Coward]

Logical consequence of having a pointless job.

Always the same

[AmiMoJo]

The weak link is always humans. The USAF had the best of intentions, was well funded and had oversight. Even so this was allowed to happen. At least they caught it.

Re:Always the same

[zaxus]

The weak link is always humans.

Which is why we will soon be switching all nuclear launch authority to WOPR and/or Skynet...

Re:Always the same

[girlintraining]

The weak link is always humans. The USAF had the best of intentions, was well funded and had oversight. Even so this was allowed to happen. At least they caught it.

Back up. If you look more closely, even a 'D' rating doesn't mean there was ever any danger of an accidental nuclear release, or lost/misplaced inventory, etc. This relates specifically and only to combat-readiness. These are the guys that sit in a room for days, hours, weeks at a go, with nothing to do but wait for the red lights and klaxxon alarms that say WW3 just started. They got a poor review because they were too slow in their reaction times, amongst other things as it relates to launch readiness.

This is the same thing that every military unit, in every branch, deals with sooner or later. Everyone's performance slips sooner or later, even if you're special forces. That's why these audits are done, everywhere, all the time. It's routine, and these reviews are part of everybody's service file. A poor review doesn't even necessarily mean you're going to lose out on a promotion opportunity in the long run. People are benched for retraining all the time. Mind you, the first step is usually additional training in situ, but given the seriousness of their job, I can understand skipping that.

But let's be clear: This is the military performing as expected. This is a routine thing, and it's only making the news because it involves nuclear weapons. If it happened anywhere else, it'd be a non-event.

Re:Always the same

[AmiMoJo]

I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying it was a safety issue, merely that no matter how high the stakes and how hard you try these things still happen.

The USAF is, as you say, the gold standard. Civilian nuclear power is considerably less motivated and less well funded, with less oversight. That's why I take issue with the "oh if we just put better people in charge" brigade, and their friends in the "we can make it idiot proof" troop.

Re:Always the same

[girlintraining]

I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying it was a safety issue, merely that no matter how high the stakes and how hard you try these things still happen.

Which is, frankly, a pointless point to make.

The USAF is, as you say, the gold standard. Civilian nuclear power is considerably less motivated and less well funded, with less oversight. That's why I take issue with the "oh if we just put better people in charge" brigade, and their friends in the "we can make it idiot proof" troop.

No, but you can add auditing and process controls to manage and reduce the problems to a very small percentage. Which is what the USAF has done, and done well. This isn't evidence of a failure in process, but rather a validation of it. And I didn't say Chair Force is the gold standard...

My vote is for the Marines. ;)

Re:Always the same

[Obfuscant]

The USAF is, as you say, the gold standard. Civilian nuclear power is considerably less motivated and less well funded, with less oversight.

You're right. I'm all for removing nuclear launch authority from the operators of civilian nuclear power plants.

Re:Always the same

[DerekLyons]

But let's be clear: This is the military performing as expected. This is a routine thing, and it's only making the news because it involves nuclear weapons. If it happened anywhere else, it'd be a non-event.

I suspect it's only making the news because it's slow news day... Otherwise, you're spot on. These kinds of failures, while not common, do happen. It happened to me back in the 1980's while serving onboard USS Henry L. Stimson (Blue). The WEPS dicked up some paperwork, resulting in a failure with immediate re-inspect (I.E. after we'd had a chance to fix the screw up). The worst part is that until he took it into his head to do something on his own hook rather than consulting with the Weapons Department Yeoman (me), it looked like we were going to nail a "comment only" inspection. (Which is realistically the best you can do nobody ever heard of someone getting a "perfect" inspection. Given that running a nuclear weapons system is partially a science, partially an art... there's a lot of differing opinions about the 'art' part.)

Re:Always the same

[MickLinux]

I thought Skynet's primary goal was to eliminate weak links from its system.

Re:Always the same

[Anonymous Coward]

My vote is for the Marines. ;)

Bad idea. They picked the Chair Force precisely because they don't want these weapons in the hands of people who actually use weapons. It's the ultimate fail safe.

On the other hand, if they gave it to Marines, you might actually discover that nuclear war was winnable.

Re:Always the same

[Anonymous Coward]

We're just lacking the right people for the job. If we could only get some highly qualified H1-Bs in there, we wouldn't have any of these problems.

Re:Always the same

[Anonymous Coward]

Two things:

First of all I'm glad we have you to tell all of slashdot what's pointless and what's not. You have a certain arrogance about you that I find unflattering.

Secondly, you might want to consider that while the Marines play a useful role, the AF boys (and girls) are at least smart enough to keep themselves out of harms way. Just sayin'.

Re:Always the same

[Anonymous Coward]

har har har, you may be the smartest jarhead on slashdot!

Unprecenented?

[chiefmojorising]

Hardly. This happened more than once during the cold war under SAC. Hell, entire wings have been decertified before. You don't have to go back farther than 2007 to find something similar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_States_Air_Force_nuclear_weapons_incident).

There was an article in Air Force Magazine a couple months back about SAC history that touched on this a bit:

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2013/March%202013/0313SAC.aspx

Re:Unprecenented?

[Otis B. Dilroy III]

During the cuban missle crisis my dad was a flight line mechanic at Fairchild AFB outside Spokane WA.
At that time Fairchild was a B52 base.
He said that every B52 they had was in the aIr loaded with nukes, wating for orders.
The nukes had to be armed in the air before dropping so that they wouldn't go off in case of a crash or accidental drop.
During post-flight inspections, it was discovered that one B52 went up with all of its nukes armed. If it had dropped a bomb due to mechanical failure or crashed, big boom
I can only imagine the size of the boom that occurred on base when it was discoevred.

Re:Unprecenented?

[Anonymous Coward]

...or just watch the movie, Rock Hudson and Rod Taylor etc

Re:Unprecenented?

[DNS-and-BIND]

Nukes don't "go off" in plane crashes. A deliberate sequence of events must occur. Disobeying nuclear weapons procedure is bad indeed but let's not make shit up. Otherwise we're no better than environmentalists who think that nuclear power plants can blow up like a nuclear bomb.

Re:Unprecenented?

[gatkinso]

That is not true of some of the older weapons. While it is highly unlikely that the weapon would explode at full yield, a fizzle of several hundreds or even kilo- tons was very possible.... definitely enough to take out a town or the flight line at the launching base. For instance there were weapons that would have a little chain of beryllium(?) wound up in the core that would be pulled out after launch - this was to prevent accidental detonation as there were no other safeguards on the weapon. Spark the right circuit and it would go off full power. The chain was very brittle - if it broke and left even a single link inside the pit the weapon was effectively bricked.

Gun type weapons are very susceptible to accidental detonation, even full yield detonation.

US weapons are all built with many safeguards these days (if you believe the unclassified literature). Foreign weapons... who knows.

About Time.

[iamwhoiamtoday]

About time that the results of an inspection actually spurred the brass to do something about it.
So often, stuff just gets swept under the rug. I'm actually concerned over this, not because "oh look, we found 17 folks out of compliance", but more because "if this is what they are publisicing, what isn't being said?".

As much as I love seeing Officers getting called out, it really makes me worry about the Chair Farce's ability to get stuff right.

Re:About Time.

[idontgno]

In the Air Force, bad readiness inspection results usually get action. What they don't usually get is publicity.

This was a leak. I don't want to be too cynical about my military alma mater, but expect a serious leak-hunt along with all of the anticipated corrective actions, remedial training, and legal action.

Re:About Time.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is SOP at all levels of the governments, from the USAF to the local animal control. Airing dirty laundry in public is a career-ender. Even though it should be required by law.

Re:About Time.

[mjwx]

In the Air Force, bad readiness inspection results usually get action. What they don't usually get is publicity.

This was a leak. I don't want to be too cynical about my military alma mater, but expect a serious leak-hunt along with all of the anticipated corrective actions, remedial training, and legal action.

Not military, but in the corporate world the easiest and most effective way to get the heat taken of your failure is find (or generate) a bigger failure that can be blamed on someone else.

"Intensive retraining ..."

[Kittenman]

Is that "drop and give me 20" type stuff? In other places, it's called "gardening leave" or maybe "leaving to spend more time with his family"

Re:"Intensive retraining ..."

[Anonymous Coward]

no its more like, see that red button, dont push it

Re:"Intensive retraining ..."

[tnk1]

I thought it was more like they tell you to turn the key, and if you don't, they point a gun at you and tell you to do it again.

What could possibly go wrong?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Isn't '60-90 days of retraining' about the same as what you get for failing a class in high school and getting forced to take summer classes if you want to graduate?

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

How hard can it be to launch a missle?

1) The red light starts flashing
2) Open safe and confirm codes
3) Press big red button
4) Commit suicide

It's not like they need to be rocket scientists or anything.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

How hard can it be to launch a missle?

1) The red light starts flashing
2) Open safe and confirm codes
3) Press big red button
4) Commit suicide

It's not like they need to be rocket scientists or anything.

Would YOU be able to push the big red button ? I know I wouldn't be able to.
Even if you commit suicide afterwards, killing tens of millions of people just isn't an easy thing to do.
I think those missile commanders have to be brainwashed at some level to do what they do.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Hognoxious]

I'd retrain them to clean toilets. Permanently.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Joce640k]

I couldn't shoot deer, bears, etc. but there's plenty of people who think it's great fun. Some of them even take their kids along when they do it so they can put one foot on them for the Facebook pics.

You can bet there's no shortage of people who'd press the button without hesitation. All the air force has to do is find a few of them.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve Phelps: Sir, we have a launch order. Put your hand on your key, sir!
Jerry Lawson: I'm sorry...
Computer: Two... one... Launch!
Steve Phelps: [pulls out his sidearm and aims at Lawson] Sir, we are at launch, turn your key!
Jerry Lawson: I'm sorry.
Steve Phelps: [cocks his sidearm] Turn your key, sir!

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps we need to "Ender's Game" this problem. Relabel all the controls to imply they're a simulation so the operators don't feel bad about what they did until they've already done it.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Mid-tribulation Premillennialists might be a good choice... though their 'not-launching-the-missiles' capabilities might be a problem.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, they'll probably go through CCU which is like boot camp part two crossed a bit with juvie-hall for adults. Then after that they'll likely be assigned permanent FOD walkdown duty at some remote base up in Alaska. The military will still get their last days use out of 'em, but they wont be in much position to really hurt anything.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[girlintraining]

Isn't '60-90 days of retraining' about the same as what you get for failing a class in high school and getting forced to take summer classes if you want to graduate?

True, but 60-90 days of focusing on material by a competent and mature adult will result in much better information retention than 60-90 days by a teenager whose hormones are busy staring at the sexual features of half the class, and their attitude is that what they're doing is a massive waste of time.

I learned the entire C programming language in less time than that; But I dedicated and motivated myself towards doing it. And it wasn't even "full time"... I just picked away at it, an hour here, an hour there. Nowadays I can absorb entire books worth of reference material in days. In 90 days, I could memorize everything there is to know about nuclear launches. Hell, I could probably build the damn rockets in that amount of time.

Focus. It's everything.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[cold fjord]

Whom do you think the Soviet and Chinese communists use? You may recall that they were both part of a club that treated Christians poorly? China still is.

... though their 'not-launching-the-missiles' capabilities might be a problem.

I think Christians understand that the end of the world is in God's hands, not man's. Trying to start it themselves would seem to be a sin.

“But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. -- Mark 13:32

This is in contrast to the Iranian branch of Shia Islam (the Iraqi branch is distinct) where many believe they can cause enough chaos in the world to bring the return of the Hidden Imam.

'Divine mission' driving Iran's new leader
Ahmadinejad: Chávez Will Rise Again with Jesus and the Hidden Imam

I get the impression you might be a little fixated.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[hawguy]

How hard can it be to launch a missle?

1) The red light starts flashing
2) Open safe and confirm codes
3) Press big red button
4) Commit suicide

It's not like they need to be rocket scientists or anything.

If the world gets to the point where we're launching nuclear missiles, I think step 4 is redundant.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[PhxBlue]

Would YOU be able to push the big red button ? I know I wouldn't be able to.

That's because you haven't had the Air Force's Jesus Loves Nukes training. </sarcasm>

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[mikael]

I do wonder how disorganized they could be. What happens after the alarm sounds? Did they go running for the metal box containing the authentication codes, only to find that they had also used it to store the team scores for the local Poker team tournaments, as well as the football pools and their lucky Powerball Jackpot numbers? Took them 10 minutes to find the right brown envelope.

Did somebody try and use the authentication codes for the Powerball to see if they would get a high prize? Then they made copies of all the console keys and handed them out, so as to save time looking for them when a random drill practice was scheduled? Then they replaced the standard MIL-STD keyboards with backlit keyboards because they look cooler in the dark? And they redirected the satellite dishes to the DirectTV network, so they could watch soap operas from neighboring countries (that actually happened to a water supply project in a developing world country).

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[mikael]

In the UK civil service, if you really ****'ed up, they wouldn't fire you, but simply redeploy you to something like "inventory control officer". You would spend the rest of your career travelling to and walking through every facility under your watch and scanning barcodes until the day you retired. Though, some people actually enjoyed that work, meeting new people and getting to travel for free.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[NemoinSpace]

Please stop interpreting scripture on your own. You're not good at it. People that insist they have all the answers -- don't.
I don't mind you taking a stab at it, but this is Slashdot after all. What's the point?
Launching ALL of the worlds nuclear weapons at once, would probably get rid of just enough of the assholes to let the remaining ones enjoy a few thousand years of relative peace.
Blow your matches boys.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[deadweight]

The point is if you would push it - you won't have to. If you won't, you might.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I get the impression that I need to joke a little more blatantly...

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

I always thought that scene was wonky. I mean, if threatening the other guy with a gun is protocol, how many Missileers would have been shot by their partners during that test? Obviously that guy lived and went on to become White House chief of staff, but the risk was too high, IMHO.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[cold fjord]

That might be a plus, particularly as it isn't all that rare for people on Slashdot to seriously accuse various people or groups of conspiring to try to bring about Armageddon based on some distorted understanding of Christian beliefs. Shamefully, that sort of thing tends to attract high moderation - at least it has in the past. Glad you aren't one of them.

Peace

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[drinkypoo]

If you can figure out how to clean toilets permanently, you can make a mint.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[tnk1]

Presumably, the part where you threaten to shoot someone who refuses to kill ten million people is not exactly SOP. It would also probably be ineffective... because if he's dead he still can't turn the key.

But the scene did provide some good drama.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[tnk1]

It would be... interesting (read: extremely difficult unless you are a psychopath)... to be someone who actually launches a missile and survives to see the aftermath.

Of course, since the silos are on the primary target lists, you are right about suicide being redundant. Those Soviet SS-18's carried a lot of megaton warheads. If they launched first, I might just launch as a good-bye fuck you to the people who decided that they wanted me either dead, glowing, or both. Even though they might be aiming at the missile in the silo next to me, I still might take that personally, you know?

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[tnk1]

Would you still get your KCMG? Or would you top out at CMG for the screw up?

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ultra Ever Dry

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[aaaaaaargh!]

Why don't they just let 3 different people push 3 different buttons but only one of them is working?

I hear something similar was done with executions and apparently this magically removed all the moral quirks some executioners might have had. (It wouldn't work for me, but then again I'm not planning to work as an executioner in the first place.)

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking of not having answers, yours is an unlikely proposition.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

It would also probably be ineffective... because if he's dead he still can't turn the key.

It could be effective. This isn't about "turn the key or I shoot you" vs "you won't shoot me because then the key cannot be turned". It's about "I get what I want or you die" vs "then so be it".

So it depends how much the 1st guy is willing to die for his beliefs, and how much the 1st guy believes that the 2nd will carry through with the threat.

NOT GUILTY?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did I just hear Simpson and Anthony all over again? Time to stop putting these circuses on TV.

Good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone trying to instill some discipline in a organization where sloppiness should not be tolerated? Good for them.

Minecraft

[DarthVain]

Yes but do they still have mine shaft access, that is what I want to know?! How else are we going to keep the commies from infiltrating our precious fluids? Grain alcohol for me I tell you what!

Seriously however, scoring a "D" in Minuteman Mastery should get your keys revoked. Somehow 60-90 days training doesn't make me feel any better if that is all it takes to get their access back....

The military takes this stuff really seriously

[GodfatherofSoul]

When I was in ROTC our squad officer said basically everyone up the chain of command was written up (permanent records) because one security guard with a shotgun was out of position in a nuke facility.

Re:The military takes this stuff really seriously

[MickyTheIdiot]

And that sounds fairly reasonable to me.

Re:The military takes this stuff really seriously

[interkin3tic]

How far out of position? Like a foot to the left, or riding the nuke like a cowboy, firing the shotgun into the air and yelling "WOOOOO!!!!" Because one is forgivable, the other is I assume standard practice.

Meanwhile, they have been offered new jobs . . .

[PolygamousRanchKid]

. . . in scenic North Korea. Wacky delusional dictator Kim Jong Un has promised them an exciting life in his missile silos, highlighted by Shirts & Skins hoops with Dennis Rodman.

. . . on Roller Skates . . . !

Something they'd never use, was taken away

[Nyder]

Must hurt to know that you can't do something you'd probably never have to do anyways.

I know it's every boys dream to be able to launch a nuke.

yes, I am being sarcastic.

Re:Something they'd never use, was taken away

[Anonymous Coward]

I would flip the key. I would launch. I would not think twice. I would not have to. I am trained to do it. And I would. FEAR NOT fellow Americans. I will see to it that we take out at least a few hundred thousand.

T.J. Kong III

Ozzy?

[GPLDAN]

Is this where we queue the Black Sabbath music?

Generals gathered in their masses.....

Hard to stay fresh

[DougOtto]

Imagine having a job where you sit every day waiting to perform a task that never happens.

We should let them launch one, every now and then, just to stay fresh.

Re:Hard to stay fresh

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine having a job where you sit every day waiting to perform a task that never happens.

We should let them launch one, every now and then, just to stay fresh.

I'd propose as primary target : the US Congress, secondary target : Hollywood, and tertiary target : east Texas.
Obliterating these 3 should fix 99% of america's problems.

Re:Hard to stay fresh

[SirGarlon]

I've never been in the armed service, but I would expect them to have occasional drills.

Re:Hard to stay fresh

[idontgno]

I don't know if you've thought this out.

By way of example, let me toss out a hypothetical outcome of your plan: "mutant zombie patent laywer".

Or picture one of these with a list of BitTorrent leecher IPs and a contract from the RIAA.

Yeah, I heard you scream like a little girl. You know exactly what I mean.

It's a bad plan. Lawyers are the only thing likely to out-survive cockroaches. Lifting off and nuking them from orbit won't be enough.

Re:Hard to stay fresh

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok I will concede that getting rid of lawyers is as difficult if not more difficult than getting rid of insects.
Still, nuclear weapons are not enough but maybe an extinction level event might do the job. The problem is nobody will be left to enjoy the aftermath of the liberation.

Re:Hard to stay fresh

[Anonymous Coward]

Regular or cordless ones?

Lack of precision is how confusion starts

Re:Hard to stay fresh

[Anonymous Coward]

Military standard, radiation hardened, EMP proof and battlefield proven, in shiny white hermetically seal packages, and priced accordingly.

Re:Hard to stay fresh

[budgenator]

My understanding is that operational test are performed periodically, and when they happen the Launch Officers are not sure whether it's a test or a live launch, they just do their thing then listen to see if the bird leaves the tube or not. Most of the time it's pretty easy, but lately with the war in Syria and chemical weapons rumours and North Korea being so stupid turning those keys has got to be pretty freaky.

Re:Hard to stay fresh

[tnk1]

It still might be worth the effort... if only so that the sentient jellyfish have a chance to succeed where we failed.

Re:Meanwhile, they have been offered new jobs . .

[Shimbo]

...and you get to be trained in Photoshop too.

No Problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Just increase the number of H-1B visas so we can get qualified people from India into those jobs.

New for Nerds?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this news nerd-worthy?

Our civilization is degrading

[DNS-and-BIND]

These are the same standards that previous generations could achieve. Hard standards that do not change according to the whims of political winds, nor the Air Force's racial preferences. The Strategic Air Command (the mooks responsible for all our nukes) attitude was called the "Sundown Policy". In other words, if you screwed up no matter who you were, your ass was gone by sundown. If you so much as got a traffic ticket: "If a man is not responsible enough to drive a car, he has no business around nuclear weapons." The offender would often be kicked out of the Air Force and tossed off the base by the close of the day.

And now, what? Remedial training lessons? Are you joking? Our current generation can't handle the hard standards set by their forefathers. Note that nuclear weapon handling procedures are not what you might call "difficult". They are merely "thorough". If you figure out the underlying idea, it's a piece of cake - as demonstrated repeatedly by the generations of SAC airmen who scored 100% (the only passing score) on test after test after test. However all we see here are people who cannot see the idea, merely dozens and dozens of checklists which must be memorized by heart, none of it makes any sense.

Why should we be surprised when an officer fails to order armed guards to stand watch over a nuclear weapons storage facility? It's just another one of those nitpicking details - "quit your post only when properly relieved"? Who can possibly be bothered to memorize these technical details and meaningless trivia?

Re:Our civilization is degrading

[Anonymous Coward]

Except the problem being that some of the standards of the previous generations were so hard and difficult to achieve the way they wanted that cheating started happening. Policies have changed because we have better ones. PRP (Personal Reliability Program) is the program we follow now. It is designed to be a program where you keep track of yourself and others, and any issues that arrise you channel up the chain of command. If you get a traffic ticket, and you tell your commander, "No, I'm good. Simple mistake." or whatever it might be, then alright. You go pay it and everything is fine and done. If a family member dies, you tell someone, and you are "down" on PRP and are not allowed to work with nuclear weapons. If anything else is bothering you, you can tell someone you need to be "down". So on and so forth. And this was put into place, because people in the past were told to "suck it up and get to work" and then these sad, depressed, or angry people are working on nukes. Pretty sure we can agree that's bad.

Granted, maybe there are many more problems going on within Minot AFB that is creating this problem. At F.E. Warren, we aren't having these issues and scored exceedingly high in every area of the inspections this year.

Re:Our civilization is degrading

[Anonymous Coward]

This sounds like quite a lot of shit talking from a has been... or never was.

How do you know what's currently going on and what standards are actually being enforced?

Didn't think so, chump.

I'll bet you were a REMF.

Re:Our civilization is degrading

[tnk1]

The problem is the same one you get after a few thousand years of preparing for the End of the World in the biblical sense. Eventually, people figure out that smacking yourself in the face with a board every time the Plague breaks out does not result in you being ushered into heaven while the Earth is overrun by the Armies of Satan. You just get a really bad headache and permanent double vision.

Our forefathers thought that the end of the world would come at the hands of the Red Commies if they were not ready to turn that key to scare the Asian Hordes into thoughtful peacefulness with our stern resolution. Today, no one is sure who we're actually aiming the missiles at. It's slack because no one thinks anyone is going to shoot at anyone any more. At least not with ICBMs.

Of course, neither case proves that the End of the World is not nigh, it just means that it's not obvious anymore how it would happen. Which, if you think about it, is the perfect time for someone to screw up and end the world. After all, when everyone is most ready to fight is when they are most aware of what the danger really is and what needs to be done to prevent it.

Re:Our civilization is degrading

[DNS-and-BIND]

I have re-read this comment several times and it has yet to make any sense whatsoever.

Re:Our civilization is degrading

[tnk1]

Cliff notes for you, since you're having trouble.

There is no one who is at the brink of blowing us up with nuclear weapons today.

People get slack when you don't have a threat.

People in the past were not slack because they saw the threat.

The rest is observations that I found interesting, but you didn't understand the context. Hope that helped.

I hope

[lesincompetent]

I hope USAF Brigadier General Jack D. Ripper has been stripped of his nuclear authority too!

Lawyers with frickin lasers on their heads

[TiggertheMad]

Lawyers are the only thing likely to out-survive cockroaches. Lifting off and nuking them from orbit won't be enough.

Another similarity with roaches: hitting them with a hammer results in a satisfying crunching sound....

What did they expect?

[Hoi Polloi]

I'm not shocked that they'd have problems with people in a very stressful yet very boring job with little likelihood of ever being called on to do anything. Not to mention a big dose of moral self-doubts.

Time to retire silo'd missiles anyway. They are a relic of the past.

Re:What did they expect?

[VortexCortex]

Oh, it's not like the ONLY thing they do is stare at a switch all day, waiting to be told to press it.

It's organizational rot

[Sir Holo]

Organizational rot sets in when there is nothing really "new" or interesting for employees to do, little opportunity for promotion, all spread over a number of years. How could it not?

An easy and secure job sounds like an attractive thing on its face, but really, it's not, and often eventually turns into a "club." And it's boring.

Quote FTA, by a former launch-control officer, "Minuteman launch crews have long been marginalized and demoralized by the fact that the Air Force's culture and fast-track careers revolve around flying planes, not sitting in underground bunkers baby-sitting nuclear-armed missiles."

Re:It's organizational rot

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably the best response would be to just retire the weapons and the failing officers along with them. We don't really need either.

Re:It's organizational rot

[Anonymous Coward]

What you say. Add the usual abuses and short-staffing, plus being 90 miles from anywhere,
and having morale only in the sub-basement would be an achievement. These guys and
gals are literally living in holes in the ground.

Re:It's organizational rot

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds right. I can't even begin to imagine how boring it would be to just sit in a hole for a shift which is most likely at leat 24 hours. It takes a certain personality type, that's for sure. Such an important job too. Time to automate the whole complex I think. "Hello I'm calling about my water bill", "You've reached the Minot Missle launch control center, plese state the number of the missle you would like to launch." "No I just had one question about my bill." "Did you say launch missle number one?" "Press 1 for no or 2 for yes" "But wait, I just have a question about my bill?" "No respose received so missle away in 5.4.3.2.1.missle is away". "Oops, bye"

Re:It's organizational rot

[Anonymous Coward]

Much like having to use deodorant, I'm afraid there is really no going back. If you try, things are going to stink whether you like it or not.

Lt. Colonel John Dorrian

[Anonymous Coward]

Wasn't he JD in Scrubs?

Well, well, well

[reboot246]

Looks like somebody got put on his Super High Intensity Training list.

Unprecedented?

[Anonymous Coward]

Absoutely, this is not unprecedented. I'm a bit puzzled lately by this obsession with AF bashing by the press.
First off, it's extremely simple to fail -anything- involving nuclear weapons. Failing to dot an i type stuff... so when it takes about 'potential to compromise codes', it's relative.
Second, these young officers didn't "have the authority to launch weapons". Only the president does. Better phrased as "authority to be near nuclear weapons and follow launch procedures when authorized and provided necessary codes".
Third, this authority is often stripped temporarily on a routine basis for lots of reasons. Look up Personnel Reliability Program (PRP). Have a bitter divorce going on? PRP gets yanked. Foreclosed on? PRP yanked. Temporarily, not a career-ender, but better safe then sorry.
Finally, why the heck are Senators involved?? A group of young officers needed their attention grabbed... a mid-level officer (Lieutenant Colonel) grabbed them by the horns and shwacked then with a blunt email about what the expectations are. And this is bad how? Hire thousands of young employees into a job, and some of them will fail to meet your expectations, no matter how high/low they are. So a good leader tries to fix the employees. Looks like that's what this guy is trying to do in an email that was never meant to go public.

I'd be much more concerned about this is every single nuclear inspection in the military never reported any issues.

what side do you want?

[Joe_Dragon]

what side do you want?

1. USA
2. USRR
3. France
4. North Korea
5. China
6. UK
7. Pakistan
8. India
9. Israel

When asked for comment...

[chinton]

Joshua replied "Would you like to play a game?".

but you need 2 men to trun there keys

[Joe_Dragon]

but you need 2 men to trun there keys at the same time

"Nuclear missile laun..

[Joe_Dragon]

"Nuclear missile laun.. and then it cuts off what do you do then?

Re:"Nuclear missile laun..

[PhxBlue]

Crimson Tide did a decent job answering that hypothetical.

Return to Old School discipline.

[couchslug]

They need to bring the old SAC ways back. After TAC ate SAC and became ACC, things became famously slack.

Enforce discipline, fairly, but harshly. If people refuse to perform shitcan them. Air Force life is mostly cake, the bennies and retirement package are outstanding, and of course everyone there is a volunteer.

Perform or get the fuck out.

Failed test drills

[Anonymous Coward]

They probably faild test drills!

When the drill was run, They failed to launch the missiles.
(Not knowing it was a drill, They probably felt some moral obligation not to wipe out humanity!)

Not so big of a deal

[Charliemopps]

This isn't that big of a deal. I know someone that had this job for a while. According to him (and of course this is just something a friend of mine told me over beers so take it for what it's worth) it's a miserable job. You're just stuck, bored to death for very very long periods of time. You have no sunlight. Everyone in the room has sworn and oath and passed psychological tests that prove they will kill you if you threaten a launch or are in any other way ordered to kill you. So it's not like you can really be friends with any of them in any real way. Even when you do get to come out after a tour, you're in the middle of no-where. It's just a vast empty plane. And the entire purpose of you being there is to destroy all of humanity. As bored as you are you have plenty of time to dwell on the nature of your job... your life... why you're th.... BWAP BWAP BWAP!!!!! ALERT ALERT!!! oooo... missed it by 2.3 seconds. Fuck it all to hell.

Picture Homer Simpson at the launch controls

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if any of the officers suspended were named Homer Simpson.

Re:Picture Homer Simpson at the launch controls

[Anonymous Coward]

It's bad enough the colonel is named John Dorrian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.D._(Scrubs)

Re:Meanwhile, they have been offered new jobs . .

[tnk1]

I can't believe any one would be low enough to consider that... those rules he made up for North Korean basketball are an abomination.

The real problem

[slashmydots]

Promotions should be based 100% on skill and actual merit and 0% on duration of service in the military. Until they fix that, people who aren't great at their jobs are promoted all the time and terribly skilled lower level recruits are held off. That's why I never joined.

The real reason

[shikaisi]

The reason they were stripped of their launch authority is that they had discovered an international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

I don't want to be a scaremonger...

[RivenAleem]

If they removed the ability to control and launch nukes from 17 people, my mind imagines this to still only be a portion of the overall number. Just how many people CAN launch nukes?

Retraining is always a result

[Anonymous Coward]

of marginal inspections. The fact that there were 17 officers needing reinforcement training in one win makes it unusual, but really, beyond the perception of discipline problems, we don't know what the failigns were: maybe being late confirming a code, or turning a key, or refusing to turn a key...who knows? perhaps even maintenance issues onsite.

We just don't know. So, reinforcement training to get folsk back in the groove is a "good idea".

This has been standard practice for decades

[arglebargle_xiv]

Anyone with launch control undergoes constant drilling and evaluation. If they fail an eval, they have to go through remedial training that's sufficiently obnoxious that few will risk failing. This is well-known among people who work in that sort of job. My guess is that the reason it's being made public in this case is because they want to send a message to someone for some reason (Congress for more funding? Embarrass the unit's CO/force someone's retirement/turf war? Who knows...).

In a related story...

[Anonymous Coward]

There are reports of a communication blackout with Burpleson AFB. Stay tuned.