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Medical Firm Sues IRS For 4th Amendment Violation In Records Seizure
cold fjord writes "A healthcare provider has sued the Internal Revenue Service and 15 of its agents, charging they wrongfully seized 60 million medical records from 10 million Americans ... [The unnamed company alleges] the agency violated the Fourth Amendment in 2011, when agents executed a search warrant for financial data on one employee – and that led to the seizure of information on 10 million, including state judges. The search warrant did not specify that the IRS could take medical information, UPI said. And information technology officials warned the IRS about the potential to violate medical privacy laws before agents executed the warrant, the complaint said." Also at Nextgov.com.
I was expecting the CDC to pull this stunt, but the IRS?
When will the IRS start issuing jack boots to all agents? I didn't read TFA, but the summary seems to make it clear that someone understood that there was a potential HIPPA issue. Incompetence is one thing, but it sounds like this goes beyond that. I wonder who's going to take the fall for this one? There appears to be a bit of a vacuum developing in the upper echelon of the IRS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White : the theft of private and privileged documents from the IRS offices and from other governmental agencies
even Wikipedia thinks that CoS plays dirty and doesn't play fair
If it takes that level of psychopathy and money and criminal activity in order to successfully fight against the IRS, what odds does a company with legitimate meritorious claims against the IRS have? None? :>(
Fourth Amendment? Is that worth the paper it's written on? The reality, sad to say, is that all our so-called rights are meaningless. Nothing has changed in the last 5,600 years, except that with a little experience I'm now more aware that nothing has changed. It's all just words for academics to fawn over. The reality is that might makes right, which is to say that those who have the might can do whatever they want. This is true on the large scale, such as the federal government, down to the small scale, such as an individual police officer. And includes both public officials and private people with adequate resources. You'd be wise, frankly, to steer clear of the "Joffreys" of the world. In truth, the only solution is to have a limited government, which is great in theory and has been tried, but the weak point is that it has to be implemented by people and people will not adhere to restrictions.
They are getting a head start on Obamacare where your medical care and finances are all part of the Government. Get used to it as the new norm if you use healthcare in the US.
The truth shall set you free!
"when agents executed a search warrant for financial data on one employee –"
A search warrant requires judicial approval. This looks like a company that is taking advantage of the current IRS "scandal" to defend itself against a wholly unrelated investigation. It worked.
They seized 60 million records of 10 million people because of 1 possible tax cheat? Nice.
To paraphrase a wise man recently, "I don't want to see who's getting slapped on the wrist. I want to see who's going to jail."
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Let us know when you have the other side of the story.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I was expecting the CDC to pull this stunt, but the IRS?
They're just getting a head start on Obamacare - which they will be administering.
Ten million people's medical records? They now have a mandate to have EVERYBODY's.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I mean, it's not like there will be any kind of upset in the elections. So ,take a pill, and enjoy the results of your vote...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
It appears that the IRS had a legitimate search warrant. if the data had been appropriately encrypted, it would be impossible tor the IRS to get access to it without help. If they were shown to have got that help, then they would have been clearly in violation. As it is, the company is at least as much to blame, surely?
Bob, we don't target people for tax audits and third-degree checks on the singular basis of the words with which they choose to identify their group. To argue otherwise is to open the door to some of the greatest evils in mankind's history.
I am John Hurt.
When everyone kept their mouths shut when the Warrantless Wiretapping was approved, did you expect it to stop there? Benjamin Franklin's quote about temporary safety fell upon deaf ears in the U.S. We are now the police state plutocracy we've always wanted. Good luck getting your privacy back.
(Sorry if that sounds like a shameless political plug, but I'm starting to think that's what really needs to happen.)
The data was handed over after the IRS threatened to rip the servers out. A move like that can seriously impact a business. The did what they felt they had to do and decided to let the courts sort it out.
Can't pretend you weren't warned. Enjoy.
You clearly have no idea how such systems work. My guess is that the IRS served their warrant and then demanded read only ODBC/API access to the companies systems. The company's DBAs likely balked at the idea... I know I would... and said "listen, if you have that sort of access, you could violate Hipaa if you submit the wrong query. We're very stringent on what we allow to be run against our tables" But the IRS being the IRS said "Fuck you, we're the IRS" and went right ahead. Once you have a legit login and password the data is no longer encrypted for you.
Knowing the ramifications of what the IRS were doing, the company likely logged their queries. The IRS's DBAs likely were worried the company in question could potentially get a court injunction to stop their access so their first query was likely "Select * from customers;" and dumped the entire table to a local table. Then company in question likely saw this, freaked out, but realized any lawsuit they filed would likely be quashed by "We have an ongoing investigation" yada yada... so they kept quiet about it until the original case was over.
I'm just guessing but I've been in similar situations and the governments admins are pricks and usually don't have a clue what they are doing. Violating hipaa is VERY easy to do if you don't know what you're doing. So much so that many people don't even want to work in departments that have access to such information. Make a typo in your query and you're getting walked out the door.
The suit seeks $25,000 in compensatory damages, per violation.
* 10 million violations is 250 billion dollars? Holy fuck.
The only company that I can think of that has that large of a database of health records would be either one of the government agencies... or Epic. Time to buy some stock.
After all those years of the current anti-Obama crowd desperately defending the shamefully illegal shenanigans of GWB's administration, I just don't quite know how to react to seeing them implode over this Obama-related stuff.
Why couldn't you get this angry at Bush Corp when it was doing similar or worse stuff? Why did you try so hard to dismiss any criticism of the unlawful (and almost always far worse) behavior of people such as GWB, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, et al?
I'm not suggesting it is wrong for you to be critical of current events, because we should all be crying foul. But it would be nice if you objected when everyone does it, and not just when it's the other team.
Thanks for an enlightening reply. I guess I was assuming the data would be nicely segmented, but I guess these days it's all run together. Raises some interesting questions for lawyers and DBAs to get their teeth into.
When will the IRS start issuing jack boots to all agents?
Why not jackboots? ATF and Secret Service are also part of Treasury.
ATF has been the classic "jackbooted thugs" for most of their existence - ever since they got spun out of Internal Revenue in . They're "the revenuers" that enforced alcohol taxes with machine guns even before they and the FBI burned down a church camp in Waco over a $200 tax bill and shot a man's son and wife on Ruby Ridge over a $500 claim, inspiring the original NRA "Jackbooted Thugs" ad.
Secret Service has a history of incarcerating people and holding them incommunicado if they think they might be possibly be a threat to a high government official. (I knew one '60s radical who BECAME a '60s radical, a nice Jewish girl who, when still underage, was playing spy/counterspy with a friend in Grosse Point using their new toy CB walkie-talkies, totally unaware that JFK was passing through the Detroit area on his way to speak at a university graduation ceremony 50 miles away. Scooped off the street, thrown in a cell overnight, no mention of why, no phone call, no notice to parents, ...) They also harassed someone who, during the Vietnam protests, wrote "Piss on JFK" on a postcard. Reason given: "If enough people pissed on him it would kill him."
Why should the IRS be left without appropriate footwear?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
As a practical matter, it's criminal when a court says it is. Meanwhile we've just got another story on the internet.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Correcting typos:
Spun out of Internal Revenue in 1886.
Shot and killed the son and sniped and killed the (nursing at the time) wife over a FIVE dollar tax matter, not a five hundred buck bill.
(ATF is also noted for throwing a pregnant woman against a wall - she later miscarried - and stomping a kitten to death just to drive home how powerless a raid target was to make them responsible for their actions. Shooting the family dogs at the start of a raid, for the raiders' convenience, is routine.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
If they took information on a hundred people and used it somehow damage those people that's one thing. But 10 million records? That's too many to ever focus on even a thousand individuals, let alone every single person. Does anyone actually think the IRS is going to care what medications you take? If you had a knee replacement? That you went to see a dermatologist? They obviously don't care about your personal information because they have it already and they don't care what your medical background is. If you actually think or anyone actually thinks they can do something with your medical background then you are stupid because they don't know, they don't care about you and don't want to mess with you personally.
Its part of their search. They obviously are after someone for something big so they took a scorch the earth approach and took every thing attached to that person and the information sitting next to it. Its easier to take more info than you need when you have your one warrant rather than get another and come back for it later.
Fucking HIPPA is a joke anyway. If the IRS has my medical information I don't give a shit. They can read about the L femoral artery restructure I had or my wisdom teeth removal till the cows come home. And for anyone wanting to keep something private, it wont ever get because the fucking IRS isn't going to publish the info, share it with someone or give the public access so no one will find out because no one cares.
Why couldn't you get this angry at Bush Corp when it was doing similar or worse stuff?
Lots of us were down on Bush, too.
You just probably thought we were lefties. B-)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
http://sandiegofreepress.org/2013/03/health-insurance-scams-leave-people-high-and-dry/
is the better system as the GOP gets kicks backs from junk health plans.
from their history:
ATF's History
Effective January 24, 2003, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) was transferred under the Homeland Security bill to the Department of Justice. The law enforcement functions of ATF under the Department of the Treasury were transferred to the Department of Justice. The tax and trade functions of ATF will remain in the Treasury Department with the new Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau.
In addition, the agency's name was changed to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to reflect its new mission in the Department of Justice.
Voting for a Republican is going to make it all better huh.
No.
But it would have kept the IRS out of healthcare enforcement.
And it would have meant the entire population of the U.S. would not shortly be forced to buy the most expensive insurance policies (which is why all of the insurance companies backed Obamacare).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
both being in the Nixon whitehouse,
and Nixon using the power of the FBI to go after political opponents,
and Nixon going after the press,
and Nixon spying on opposition figures,
and Nixon being horribly wrong about war,
That's unlikely, President Obama was born in 1961, by the time he was 18, the Vietnam conflict was already over.
I'm curious where you got the evidence that he was palling around with terrorists when he was still in grade school.
The IRS doesn't need to outsource to the DoJ or DHS for jackboots, as of last year they've started assembling their very own paramilitary task force, rumored to consist in large part of special operators returning from war. If that doesn't make you feel all warm inside, two to the chest and one to the head might.
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Wow someone who was incorrect, was given correct information, then learned something and responded politely thanking the giver of the information. Unfuckingheard of nowadays. :D
I think he's referring to the fixation some "conservatives" have on Obama's association with Bill Ayers.
I am tired of this BS. Listen to yourselves! Both sides defending the dems or reps. Let me clue you into something, kiddies. Neither side gives a crap about you, or this country. They're both evil, with their own agendas. And their agendas do not involve doing what's best the U.S. They care only about getting and maintaining power. The 2 party poli system is more dangerous to our nation then terrorism. And it will be to our own destruction if we don't rise up and change it.
Seems like the administration was running arms/missiles to Syria via Turkey from Benghazi, which US Ambassador. Stevens brokered. To tie up loose ends, they arranged to have Stevens sent to Benghazi with little security or protection on 9/11 when attacks were likely and left him to die.
Unfortunately for them, this has been picked up and is getting attention. Cue these other scandals (IRS/AP) which they calculated would distract attention from Benghazi. Unfortunately again, for them, instead of distracting from Benghazi, it has morphed in public perception into a "Trifecta of Corruption" in which these individual scandals are reinforcing the others and attracting magnitudes more attention to all the scandals.
People on both sides of the political spectrum are starting to agree, and that spells big trouble for them, and I include the "mainstream"/"old guard" core Republicans. Division is what keeps *both* parties in power...while taking ever more power and freedom from us.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
Disclaimer: I am a former Washington Post journalist
First of all, TFA is at The Washington Times. That alone makes its credibility dubious. The Washington Times was founded by Sun Myung Moon (crazy "Unification Church" cult leader) who stated that the purpose of the "newspaper" was to be "the instrument in spreading the truth about God to the world." Moon was convicted that same year of filing false federal income tax returns and conspiracy and served 13 months in prison. The Times has long been known as a conservative shill (although it has a decent sports section) that had to be financially supported by Moon's "church" to survive. Moon spent nearly $2 billion of his followers' money over 20 years to keep the paper afloat.
Second, The Washington Times article doesn't even claim to have done any reporting on its own... it cites some article from UPI that isn't readily available on UPI's home page or even by searching UPI for "IRS." Ultimately found the "article" here. It's a 9-paragraph blog posting. UPI was once a respectable news agency like AP or Reuters, but its relevance diminished to the point where it was bought out in 2000 by... you guessed it: Sun Myung Moon. UPI's White House correspondent retired the next day after 57 years with the organization. These days UPI doesn't even have a White House correspondent, and its finances have gotten so bad that it relies on free articles contributed by college students.
The UPI blog posting cites a Courthouse News Service article: John Doe Company sued 15 John Doe IRS agents in Superior Court. The plaintiff's attorney alleges that the records affected may include those of "politically controversial members of the Screen Actors Guild and the Directors Guild, and prominent citizens in the world of entertainment, business and government, from all walks of life." He goes on to complain that the unnamed IRS agents "decided to use John Doe Company's media system to watch basketball, ordering pizza and Coca-Cola, to take in part of the NCAA tournament," but "Plaintiff's attorney Robert E. Barnes declined to elaborate on the complaint's allegations, saying he will have more information 'in a few months.'"
Why publish a story no one can verify, since all you can say for now is that that unnamed people at the IRS are illegally snooping on unnamed politically controversial people through an unnamed medical firm? Because it helps fuel the fire driving the current Republican party line of "the IRS is evil and Obama is responsible." Because some ignorant blogger might pick it up and run with it, thinking that The Washington Times and UPI are real news organizations, and not even bother to look for the source of this story. Great job Timothy.
Bob, we don't target people for tax audits and third-degree checks on the singular basis of the words with which they choose to identify their group. To argue otherwise is to open the door to some of the greatest evils in mankind's history.
Other than to note that others have already opened this door in the past, I can't do anything but to agree with you.
Case at hand that I know of: East European countries in the former communist block; there was that special branch of police to make sure that nobody other than the mid-to-top members of the ruling party could have any means to make a better live for themselves. Anonymous snitching was encouraged.
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
he didn't do anything that LBJ didn't do as president, except for one thing... when some underlings got overzealous and broke the law ( without his knowledge ) he ordered it covered up--violating the law--instead of throwing his people under the bus. Personally I sort of like him better for that -- though he probably could have found a safer better way to do it.
One thing he never did-- outside the confines of fighting a war-- , he never had anyone killed, much less a foreign leader. If he did I think he would have been successful, This is unlike a certain president who tried to have a foreign leader assassinated three times ( and not pulling it off ) and even dealing with the Mafia to do it.
Acerbic political commentary from APK.
Only on Slashdot, folks.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Not a good month for the IRS. Dentists are more popular right now.
Table-ized A.I.
But the IRS still has to follow HIPAA laws for that information. Considering normal tax material is basically wide-open for what is posted on your tax form or in court documents, it is an EXTREMELY valid claim to require the IRS prove it is following the law... In fact HIPAA laws DEMAND that you only give data to other HIPAA-following parties, I doubt the IRS is an exception.
When the IRS analyst is done with this individual, and the hard drive goes to the trash (and on the Internet) who's name is attached to the HIPAA laws???
This was not about the 80% spending rule. This was about the financial data on one individual, that just happened to be an employee at this company. If he worked at McDonalds, they'd have been pulling records on 60 million hamburgers.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
Retard
Voting for either party is like living at home...
The Republicans want to be your dad:
o "You're not going to get away with that crap with me! Go to your room!" ...
o "Military services would straighten you right out!"
o "If you want spending money, put down the remote control and get a damn job!"
o "No daughter of mine is getting a damn abortion!"
The Democrats want to be your mom:
o "Maybe if you gave that Kim Jong boy a chance, you'd find out he's no really a bully, and is fun to play with!" ...
o "Don't tell your dad I gave you this, but here's $20 for gas; you kids have a nice time!"
o "You hurt your knee? Come here, and let mommy kiss it better!"
o "OK honey, we've had 'the talk'; should we go to the doctor and get you some birth control?"
Either way, you're living at home, and you never grow up.
Meanwhile, the Green party is lowering buckets on a rope from the trees they are camped out in to prevent them being cut down, and the Libertarian party is living in the cardboard box near the dumpster because they think matching funds are a "gub'mint handout!" and refuse to take charity. Not to be confused with the Objectivists, who also won't take handouts, but it's not enough for them to not take handouts, they won't give them, and if someone does give them, they won't let you take them. To translate: your aunt with all the cats, your mom's alcoholic brother, and your dad's sister who's married to the banker but cheating with the pool boy because she's unhappy.
One big, happy family.
Seems to me the IRS already gets that data in many cases: since medical expenses are deductible, you need to prove that you actually incurred them. And insurance companies and doctors likely need to provide detailed information about services as well for audits: what medical procedure was performed on whom and how much was charged for it.
No fan of the IRS, but it is certainly possible that the laws themselves are conflicting.
My super sekret source, "Gaping Gullet" is preparing an information pack which will reveal, irrefutably, that during a particularly nippy week in April, Ayers was, in fact, Milk Monitor in the cafeteria! Clearly, this is where the whole sordid mess began.
Here's what I thought the story was:
- Obama avoided going to Vietnam, just like those cowardly Democrats John Kerry and Al Gore.
- He moved from where he was born in Kenya to Indonesia to study how to become a secret Muslim terrorist.
- At the tender age of 6 years old, he helped Bill Ayers bomb the Pentagon.
- As soon as he got back to the US, he started doggedly following Jeremiah Wright's hatred of America, but remained somehow a secret Muslim.
- All policies Obama has ever made as president have been about trying to take away everyone's guns.
- In 2012, he had the gall to not show up to a debate with Clint Eastwood.
I could go on, but these are the kinds of things a significant portion of the US says they believe about him. (And, for the record, absolutely none of them are true)
I am officially gone from
It's wonderful that you're finally concerned about the Fourth Amendment!
NOW WHERE WAS ALL THIS WORRY WHEN THE PATRIOT ACT WAS BEFORE CONGRESS?
Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
Doesn't the federal government enjoy the privilege of being one of the few entities that cannot be sued unless they allow you to sue them?
Ah, "good" ole Bill.
William Ayers' forgotten communist manifesto: Prairie Fire
The last section is especially interesting.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
I assume a company that large would be perfectly aware of their responsibility to report data breeches. So, how about 10% of us wait for the lawsuit to finish, and then each sue "John Doe Corporation", whoever that might be, for not informing us of this data breech as required by HIPAA?
> Except that he trained and was certified a fighter pilot
And never left American soil.
This is in stark contrast to someone from a prominent Democrat family like Kerry or Kennedy. With the GOP, sacrifice is something that the other guy (preferably poor) does.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
When the fuck did corporations get constitutional rights? THEY AIN'T PEOPLE, PEOPLE!!!!
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
I have. You're full of shit.
Am I the only one who is unwilling to take at face value a news story from "Courthouse News Service" which reports a lawsuit against the IRS that accuses them of seizing millions of private medical records, but does not identify the plaintiff? The story was repeated by the moonie times, and they couldn't use their vast resources to dig up an easily obtainable public record. Without details, it's just a rumor.
holy cow people took that super serious
need to stop listening to smodcast
I was under the impression that was sarcasm.
The "or something" looks like a dead giveaway.
So you're saying the Affordable Care Act, aka, "ObamaCare", was at risk of not being signed into law by President Obama? You know what I meant, once Congress voted on it, it was guaranteed to become a law. The fact Nancy said everyone could read the bill AFTER they voted on it was stupid and most likely an effort to avoid revealing that the bill was far too expensive and it authorized the government to extend its tendrils deeper into our daily lives.