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Keeping Your Data Private From the NSA (And Everyone Else)

Nerval's Lobster writes "If those newspaper reports are accurate, the NSA's surveillance programs are enormous and sophisticated, and rely on the latest in analytics software. In the face of that, is there any way to keep your communications truly private? Or should you resign yourself to saying or typing, 'Hi, NSA!' every time you make a phone call or send an email? Fortunately there are ways to gain a measure of security: HTTPS, Tor, SCP, SFTP, and the vendors who build software on top of those protocols. But those host-proof solutions offer security in exchange for some measure of inconvenience. If you lose your access credentials, you're likely toast: few highly secure services include a 'Forgot Your Password?' link, which can be easily engineered to reset a password and username without the account owner's knowledge. And while 'big' providers like Google provide some degree of encryption, they may give up user data in response to a court order. Also, all the privacy software in the world also can't prevent the NSA (or other entities) from capturing metadata and other information. What do you think is the best way to keep your data locked down? Or do you think it's all a lost cause?"

123 of 622 comments (clear)

  1. I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by For+a+Free+Internet · · Score: 4, Funny

    It stinks, but I can see if anyone's been intruding. So far it is totally secure.

    --
    UNITE with the Campaign for a Free Internet because today, our future begins with tomorrow!
    1. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by Beavertank · · Score: 4, Funny

      Until someone develops a data weevil to burrow into all cheese-based encryption systems and retrieve the hidden data.

    2. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, we're on to you. I work for the NSA in the cheese department. We have secret methods of turning milk into "18-month cave-aged gouda" within 23 minutes.

    3. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by Qzukk · · Score: 5, Funny

      Your Swiss cheese security is full of holes!

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    4. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by istartedi · · Score: 2

      How do you know it's not government cheese?

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    5. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by CannonballHead · · Score: 5, Funny

      That would be pure weevil. Weevil incarnate.

    6. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      At least with Swiss cheese you are on "firm ground," so to speak.

      On the other hand, cream or cottage cheese make for lossy obscuration. Maybe better paper will help?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    7. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by knight24k · · Score: 2

      How do you know it's not government cheese?

      Because it just sits there all day, doing nothing and is of no real use....errr hmmm, you may have a point there.

    8. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by tripleevenfall · · Score: 2

      He said it was working.

    9. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by m.ducharme · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "And while 'big' providers like Google provide some degree of encryption, they WILL give up user data in response to a court order"

      I believe the correct statement would be:

      "And while 'big' providers like Google provide some degree of encryption, they HAVE GIVEN up user data in response to a court order"

      --
      Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
    10. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by scarboni888 · · Score: 2

      Leaker!

    11. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by JustOK · · Score: 4, Funny

      Most companies would use something that's just gouda enough

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    12. Re:I hide my data in big wheels of cheese by J'raxis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wrong. If Google cared, they could take measures to immunize themselves against court orders.

      Courts can only order that these businesses divulge data they have. Google could encrypt your email, docs, &c., that are stored on their servers using your login password, and so long as they don't store your login password, they cannot now decrypt the data. All they could respond to a court order with would be an encrypted blob and, "if you want the data, subpoena the owner and get the password from him." No more spying without the owner's knowledge.

      Google's encryption is just HTTPS, which is end-to-end between the user and Google's servers. It's great for protecting against MITM attacks, but useless to protect against Google themselves.

  2. Run your own servers and use encryption by kullnd · · Score: 5, Informative

    Only way you can keep your data yours while sitting at rest is to have it on your own servers and utilize proper encryption and security on those servers. That means don't use "cloud" anything unless it's on equipment you own, run your own email servers, etc. Remember that even doing this, emails that you send to other people can be accessed through whatever servers they use.

    --
    +++ATH0 NO CARRIER
    1. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by Bearhouse · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, which is why i've been using PGP for emails to/from my more nerdy family and friends for a while.
      Used to be a free plugin for those of us cursed with using Outlook, now paid.
      I should take a closer look at this, I suppose:
      http://code.google.com/p/outlook-privacy-plugin/

      Of course, other options exist. Enigmail for Thunderbird works OK too, apparantly...

      Is it just me, but how hard would it have been for Microsoft, Apple & Lotus/IBM to have rolled this type of functionality into the base product?
      (And don't tell me a corp like Exxon or whatever would find it too hard to swap certificates with its major supplier & customers, also presumably mostly big corporations with a vested interest in keeping their emails secure)
      Why did they not, eh? Conspiracy theorists, off you go!

    2. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by cdrudge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But the NSA says it's just collecting the metadata on communications, not the actual communications. So while encrypting the message in your email may prevent them from (easily) reading your email, they still see that you sent or received an email and who it was coming or going to.

    3. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Informative

      This. Servers you control, communicating using strong encryption set up by yourself alone.

      And even this assumes that the NSA doesn't secretly have any cracks for any strong encryption algorithms. Rumor is they've found a way to efficiently brute-force low-level AES.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    4. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 2

      And of course never communicate with your parents since it's highly unlikely they'll be capable of following the same protocols :)

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    5. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by TheNastyInThePasty · · Score: 2

      Also, you can hide your metadata through DC-Nets. For the technically minded, Herbivore describes a protocol that is highly resistant to attack and provides provable anonymity and secure transmission.

      --
      The best thing about UDP jokes is I don't care if you get them or not
    6. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And encrypting it screams "hey look at me look at me I'm saying something I don't want you to know about!"

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    7. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      There used to be anonymous remailers that accepted encrypted messages. You encrypted once with the recipient's private key and once with the remailers. Then only the remailer could decrypt the real recipient's email address and forward it on, without reading the actual message.

      Of course the remailer was vulnerable to surveillance but you could always chain a few of the better ones together. It won't be impossible to trace but it will break PRISM.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But the NSA says it's just collecting the metadata on communications, not the actual communications. So while encrypting the message in your email may prevent them from (easily) reading your email, they still see that you sent or received an email and who it was coming or going to.

      You're forgetting: They are lying. They lied before each leak, and after were proven liers. Now they claim to have told congress "The least untruthful" thing they could. You think they are finally telling the truth now? lol

    9. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Even there, however, the government can still potentially gain information on who you may be sharing the data with. "

      Not with OneSwarm. It was specifically designed such that content is distributed throughout your OneSwarm network, and it is physically impossible to determine which node or nodes are supplying the data you are receiving via that network.

      It might be theoretically possible for them to find out who is in your network, with a lot of effort. But even if they managed to insert a node into your network, they could not tell with whom you are communicating. By design.

    10. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 3, Informative

      But the NSA says it's just collecting the metadata on communications, not the actual communications. So while encrypting the message in your email may prevent them from (easily) reading your email, they still see that you sent or received an email and who it was coming or going to.

      enter torbirdy.

      torbirdy is a addon for Thunderbird email client routing all you email through tor. You can also use a tor hidden email service let them try and unravel who is communicating with who then. you can also use tor with pidgen chat client, and pgp encryption all they will get is random noise lost in the tor network. the problem is trying to get the muggles to bother to use/learn these.

      as it stands today we have all of the technology needed to make prism virtually useless for anything, the problem is the general populous overwhelming apathy and lack of interest as long as they can play stupid facebook games. As long as most the average joe doesn't care enough to act we all are vulnerable we have to communicate at the lowest common denominator. i would love to move all of my communication to double public key encrypted obfuscated triple proxied tor hidden service hosted secure goodness, but grandma can barely handle facebook. so we are all stuck with cc'ing everything to nsa/cia/fbi/homeland.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    11. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by timeOday · · Score: 2

      Your customer list is public knowledge? That's the type of information ex-employees tend to steal on their way out the door because it is valuable.

    12. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by Simulant · · Score: 2



      It's no longer possible to run your own email server on Comcast. They (understandably) blocked outbound port 25 on their home tier internet connections years ago but they recently started blocking inbound port 25 as well. AFAICT, the only way around this is to pay for business class internet or set up a proxy elsewhere which will forward your mail to a different port on your home network.

    13. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rumor is they've found a way to efficiently brute-force low-level AES.

      A rumor that hasnt been substantiated even after over a decade of analysis by top crypto experts around the world. Color me skeptical.

      Im sure the NSA is good, but AES security has been pretty thoroughly tested, hammered, and inspected for chinks.

    14. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And encrypting it screams "hey look at me look at me I'm saying something I don't want you to know about!"

      Huh? My mail server has been opportunistically encrypting all MTA traffic for the past decade and all of my remote access is via OpenVPN or ssh. My work involves conversations with clients that include, but are not limited to trade secrets, personally-identifiable medical records, and financial information. Damn right I don't want other people to know about that stuff, and the NSA is near the bottom of that list.

      The only change I'm going to make over this NSA tussle is to stop accepting plain HTTP on my own infrastructure. Sorry, IE on XP users - you're out of luck. The other 95% of the web will be better off if everybody makes the same change.

      I'll have to look through my logs to see if the same change can be made for mail yet.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    15. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right now it screams "I've heard of PRISM".

      Now is the best time to start routinely encrypting your communications, because you have a plausible reason to do so.

    16. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

      Guess who evaluated if AES should be accepted as a cypher or not. The NSA.

    17. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Informative

      This. Servers you control, communicating using strong encryption set up by yourself alone.

      And never used for any purpose but converting electricity to heat... because once you hook them up to the wider world (even just to a monitor), you're compromised. (Traffic analysis, emissions analysis, etc... which most 'geeks' seem blithely unaware of, being at least as useful as actually reading the data.*) Seriously, it's a trade off - protecting data that nobody but you gives a fuck about anyhow, or actually using that data to accomplish something useful.

      * Cryptography is fashionable among geeks, it's a cheap way to tighten the tinfoil, but it's only one small corner of information security. Go ahead and feel protected because your head is under the bed - but you should be aware that your ass is hanging out.

    18. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, that would be NIST, the same folks who standardized SHA, SHA2, etc.

      AES (aka Rijndael) was developed by Daeman and Rijman. NSA offered some tweaks to it, which were later determined to have significantly strengthened the cipher.

      The "folks who evaluated it" include Bruce Schneier, who aside from being a well respected cryptoanalyst (having developed several NIST standard candidates), is nothing if not paranoid.

    19. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by snadrus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is how Lotus has worked for 20 years. Your log-in key is a file which is your public/private key and public keys of important servers (home server, various "main servers", adjacent domain servers). Then it's PGP all the way down. It's a simple menu option (often force-enabled by your admin) to have your client encrypt the message decryption key for each destination user.

      That's why their webmail requires that you upload the log-in key. And it expires according to your company password policy. The cert trust chain corresponds to the organization's servers, and cannot be spoofed without having the organization's keyfile (on admin server) or using the admin server itself (which is highly logged). This makes the encryption very tamper-proof (in 20 years I've never heard of it broken, and I'd know).

      But this is for organizations running Lotus internal and the organizations it peers with. AFAIK There's no direct + easy standard that does the same thing.

      --
      Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
    20. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by Nerdfest · · Score: 2

      I'll just leave this here.

    21. Re:Run your own servers and use encryption by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      Re "tested, hammered, and inspected for chinks." So where encryption systems offered by the GCHQ and NSA to friendly nations near the mid/end of the Cold War.
      100% safe from any Soviet hacking, tampering along any length of telecommunications systems and independently verified by the nation buying into the system.
      Why did the GCHQ and NSA give out low cost "unbreakable" encryption?
      Years earlier they had found the recovery of the original pre- or non-encrypted message i.e. plaintext was not safe when physically near the new encryption system.
      Who got to install the new systems? Front companies/contractors for planning.
      So NATO was safe from Soviet efforts but every word encoded between a country and its distant embassies was back in the UK/USA as plaintext.
      So as in the past your allowed to enjoy and study all the AES you want. Your average operating system sold out your plaintext years ago.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  3. SneakerNet by User1138 · · Score: 2

    I think that the regular postal mail is still protected from the NSA. They have to have a really good reason to open that otherwise the postal service gets real touchy. The nice part about electronic communication is that it is so easy to tap. in addition, I think as we have seen over in Iraq and Afghanistan that the SneakerNet approach does work. In this, someone creates a document or multiple documents, places them on a flash drive, and then either hand delivers or uses a courier. While most likely impractical for common documents in the united states, if someone was up to something that they truly wanted to keep secret they could employ this approach. Or be somewhere where the pneumatic tube system was still intact. Those things were so cool, I kinda miss them.

    1. Re:SneakerNet by meta-monkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The USPS, however, still takes a picture of both sides of every envelope (and obviously time, date, location) and stores it.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    2. Re:SneakerNet by gatkinso · · Score: 2

      In the 1970's banks had developed technology to read the magnetic MICR text on checks through an envelope to presort incoming mail. (MICR is that wierd font used for account and routing number at the bottom of a check)

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    3. Re:SneakerNet by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 2

      I think that the regular postal mail is still protected from the NSA.

      Yeah, for the moment, that we know of... Of course Lindsay Graham (R) is quite ok with doing just that linky

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
  4. Re: Can't have it all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't want "it all". I just want our government to respect our rights and our Constitution. Is that too much to ask?

  5. Security through obscurity by Synerg1y · · Score: 5, Informative

    1. Use an email provider nobody's heard about.
    2. Keep social network data private, more importantly don't post anything sensitive.
    3. Don't engage in terrorism, they really hate that.
    4. Somewhere between "get off Windows" and use a live disk, I don't think any OS is truly secure.
    5. Don't save anything locally, keep your accounts hidden, no email notifications.

    Wave at the black SUV outside your window as not having any traceable data may warrant suspicion in itself.

    Move to SA (either one).

    1. Re:Security through obscurity by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 3, Insightful

      2. Keep social network data private, more importantly don't post anything sensitive.

      Are you serious? How about "don't participate in an online social network"?

      Just knowing your set of friends or contacts is enough to extrapolate a huge amount of information about you. So, even if the ONLY data you provide a social network is your friends, that's already a LOT of information.

      The classic study on this was probably about five years ago now, where someone showed how it was possible to predict (to a reasonably high degree of certainty) whether you were gay or not using just your list of friends.

      More recently, it's been shown how easy it is to guess Social Security numbers -- for people of certain ages -- with just things like a birthplace (often same as home town) and approximate birth date, which can often be extrapolated just from a friend list. ("He's friends with a bunch of people all from the same town, and they're all about the same age -- probably high school friends, therefore....")

      Of course, the NSA probably can figure out your SS#, birthdate, birthplace, and similar information without going to any trouble. But the point is that you can often be significantly profiled on a social network even if you never post anything and only accept friend requests from people you know.

    2. Re:Security through obscurity by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      3. Don't engage in terrorism, they really hate that.

      Problem is that if they dislike you for some reason they tend to define whatever you do as terrorism. Even if you just happen to get blown up by a random drone strike while attending your friend's wedding you become a terrorist.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Security through obscurity by DrVomact · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course, the NSA probably can figure out your SS#, birthdate, birthplace, and similar information without going to any trouble. But the point is that you can often be significantly profiled on a social network even if you never post anything and only accept friend requests from people you know.

      The NSA can have anything it wants. First of all, they are not in the habit of asking permission, and they simply don't tell anyone what they are doing. Second, there have been perfectly legal ways for the government to buy your data for as long as marketing data has been kept and sold. It's perfectly legal for a private corp to buy your purchase history (via a credit card), the data that Google has mined out of your "free" email service, your transactions with any vendor who has a low integrity threshold (who doesn't?) So what keeps the government from buying it also? Nothing at all. If I were doing it, I'd set up a front corporation (like "Air America" of CIA fame) to buy the data so I don't get screaming headlines.

      The reason for all the hyperventilation is that three things have happened: agencies who lack the subtlety of NSA have gotten into the market, and they've done it directly—that is, they've outright seized the data instead of using the kinder gentler approach of greasing corporate palms. Third, the amount of data they have sucked has gotten so huge that it is impossible to manage without an army of low-level clerks. This is why an Army private and a contracted data massager can give the whole show away. With this many people involved, you are going to have leaks. I am surprised that there have been only two.

      I wonder. In order to fully capitalize on the amount of data they are collecting on us, will it be necessary for all of us to be employed by the US government as DB admins? Welcome to the new Greece.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
  6. Re:Can't have it all. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Those who worry are usually those who have something to hide or something criminal in the works.

    You won't mind me wiretapping your phones, installing caneras in your home and adding keyloggers to your computers? You're not a criminal with anything to hide, right?

  7. Re:Can't have it all. by atom1c · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's silly. Privacy is a constitutional right -- so important that it's part of the original Bill of Rights (first 10 amendments). To state that the desire to MAINTAIN your right to privacy means you have ill intent to "do wrong" (whatever the hell THAT means) is saying that nobody has any rights whatsoever -- since whatever is "granted" is as easily revocable and ostensibly temporary.

    Furthermore, what constitutes "wrong"? Who's the judge? It's a moral characterization to actions of an inalienable right afforded by our founding fathers. Your statements simply don't make sense.

  8. Game the system ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just game the system. I've started typing random shit in gmail before I do anything ... let 'em see lots of false positives.

    You know, I'm glad nobody KILLED OBAMA. Durka durka, mohammed jihad. Monsanto sucks. Bush was a simpleton. Death to American cheese.

    Gotta go, someone's at the door ...

    1. Re:Game the system ... by mapsjanhere · · Score: 5, Funny

      Close. Just copy nsa.gov on every email you send. It's just courtesy, not a DDoS, and not our fault if their servers can't handle it.

      --
      I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
  9. Re: Can't have it all. by JockTroll · · Score: 4, Funny

    I DO want it all. I want it all. I want it all. I want it all. And I want it NOW!

    --
    Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
  10. Client side encryption, and cascade ciphers by ron_ivi · · Score: 2
    ISTM data should be encrypted *before* it goes to the cloud.

    That has some UI implications (i.e. gmail can't search the bodies of your encrypted emails). But still seems like a better idea to have your email on your client anyway; so why not have the search index there as well.

  11. Re:Can't have it all. by Beavertank · · Score: 2

    Then you're looking at it wrong. Everyone has a right of privacy, and everyone is entitled to care (or not) about preserving that right. When a portion of a government tries to stomp on that right they've done a serious injury to you, and while you're free not to care about it, I'm also free to care a LOT about it without being faced with the accusation that I must "do wrong or plan on doing wrong" because I care about my rights.

  12. Lol by lightknight · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As with all things, assume that your communications are going to be monitored, whether electronic or not. I know, I know, it's not the answer you want; but the truth is...we put innocent people to death. If we are willing to do that, and not tear down our societies in an act of grief over the loss of a single innocent life, looking deeply within and without as to how or why we allowed this to happen, and how we can prevent it from ever happening again, then caring about protecting your privacy from the monsters waiting outside your door is the wrong approach. You're fighting Evil himself, and he aims to win by any means; if putting a gun to the head of one your children's heads to get you to decrypt your hard drive is what it takes, then he will do it, no hesitation.

    --
    I am John Hurt.
  13. Re: Can't have it all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, privacy isn't mentioned in the Bill of Rights at all. It has been inferred though not explicitly mentioned.

  14. simple steps to increase privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    use Duck Duck Go for search
    use NoScript and AdBlock plus in Mozilla Firefox for browsing
    use MEGA for cloud storage if at all
    use your own email address
    use Tor for private browsing
    keep what you want to yourself to yourself

  15. Re:Can't have it all. by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bottom line, you can't care about this, unless you do wrong or plan on doing wrong.

    "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." Cardinal Richelieu.

    See, when your government spies on everything you do, sooner or later someone will come along and decide that since they already have this information, they can use it for other things.

    If you don't grasp this, I suggest you read more about Joseph McCarthy -- America is entirely capable of political persecution as any other government.

    Bottom line, with your attitude, you deserve to be dragged off in the night, because you're part of the problem with the complacency and people not seeing what's really wrong here. That's kinda how I see it.

    Since you're not part of the solution, you are the problem.

    Twenty years ago, the US would make jokes about "papers please" and the Soviets. Now, that's just normal routine.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  16. Easy by Sparticus789 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Live in a cabin in the mountains that is over 100 miles from the nearest cell phone tower. Also ensure that you have top cover so satellite surveillance cannot see your house. Add enough insulating material (dirt would be easiest) above your cabin so that there is little/no thermal footprint. And never leave your new found cabin, since cars and feet all leave tracks.

    --
    sudo make me a sandwich
    1. Re:Easy by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Funny

      Live in a cabin in the mountains that is over 100 miles from the nearest cell phone tower. Also ensure that you have top cover so satellite surveillance cannot see your house. Add enough insulating material (dirt would be easiest) above your cabin so that there is little/no thermal footprint. And never leave your new found cabin, since cars and feet all leave tracks.

      I cover my footprints with aluminum foil, so the satellites and drones can't spot them.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  17. Re: Can't have it all. by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 3, Funny

    ok, but shipping takes a few days...

    --
    People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
  18. Re: Can't have it all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Your an idiot.

    /facepalm

  19. SSL / TLS ? by oduesp · · Score: 2

    If facebook, google are right to say that NSA did not have a direct access to their servers and that NSA actually had all emails and stuff that means that they were able to decipher all SSL / TLS encrypted communications or that they have the private keys of those big content provider. No ?

    1. Re:SSL / TLS ? by Java+Pimp · · Score: 3, Informative

      No. SSL/TLS only encrypts data in transit. Once it reaches it's destination, i.e. Google, it is decrypted so it can be processed.

      --
      Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
      Kull: She told me she was 19!
    2. Re:SSL / TLS ? by Java+Pimp · · Score: 2

      They don't need to decipher it in transit. They just send a NSL to the ISP to give it to them once it's been received.

      --
      Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
      Kull: She told me she was 19!
  20. One name by mr100percent · · Score: 2

    PGP. It's good enough for WikiLeaks and Edward Snowden and good enough for me

  21. Re:Can't have it all. by Qzukk · · Score: 2, Informative

    Or you're a tea party supporter trying to start a nonprofit.

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  22. Re:Can't have it all. by 1s44c · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The old 'if you are innocent you have nothing to fear' argument. I thought that one went out of fashion when the German Jews realized that being innocent is no defense again tyrants.

  23. Solutions = encryption + decentralization by magic+maverick+ · · Score: 3, Informative

    The solution is encrypt everything (OpenPGP for emails, etc.), plus decentralization. If everyone either hosted their own email, or used a minor hosting company, then it would be much more difficult for the NSA to round up all those emails. Then, if even half the population used OpenPGP for emails, we could hide in the mass, and the NSA etc. will have no hope of reading all those emails.

    As soon as you have just a few spots (e.g. FarceBook, Google-, Murdoch'sSpace) that host the significant majority of a certain type of communication, then you have a huge weak spot. Solution is decentralization and federation.

    Use tools like Diaspora, StatusNet, Jabber, SIP, and email. Don't use tools like Skype, Yahoo Messenger, AIM, Facebook, etc.

    See also: http://autonomo.us/ and particularly Reducing vulnerability to massive spying with free network services?

    --
    HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
  24. Why the hell are people accepting this? by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is the kind of crap that was held up as examples of why communist countries were so much worse than the US.
    People, the government is supposed to work for you, not the other way around.

    --
    If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    1. Re:Why the hell are people accepting this? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is the kind of crap that was held up as examples of why communist countries were so much worse than the US.

      People, the government is supposed to work for you, not the other way around.

      How many times in the last 12 years have you heard "the President's job is to keep us safe"?

      How many times in the last 12 years have you heard "the President's job is to keep us free"?

      Most people vote for low taxes, baseball stadiums, security theater, and enforcing their values on everyone else. Freedom and privacy get trumped by too many of those things.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:Why the hell are people accepting this? by SiliconSeraph · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They shouldn't just be working for you, they should be actively afraid of you. That's what keeps democracy going.

    3. Re:Why the hell are people accepting this? by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 5, Informative

      According to wikipedia, in 2001 a total of 3547 people died in terrorist attacks. Worst year on record.
      According to wikipedia, in 2001 in the US 42,196 people died in traffic accidents.
      According to Wikipedia in 2001 (A crappy graph) approximately 8000 people were killed with handguns in the US.

      Someone tell me why the threat of terrorism gets so much attention.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    4. Re:Why the hell are people accepting this? by meta-monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They are. Why else are they recording everything you do?

      Remember, Snowden has committed "treason." Treason means he gave aid and comfort to an enemy of The United States. The jihadists already knew they were being watched. Only the American people didn't. What enemy, exactly, did he give aid and comfort to?

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    5. Re:Why the hell are people accepting this? by johnjaydk · · Score: 2

      t's also relatively new, people have been dying in traffic for as long as most of us care to remember, but terrorism is only 12 years old.

      Our current level of terrorism is actually fairly low compared to the 70's. I don't remember the western world turning into a police state back then although the germans were a bit uptight at the time.

      --
      TCAP-Abort
  25. Re:Does it matter? by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

    Wait, you don't have a social media account, Comrade? Why are you being anti-social? Don't you like our society?

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  26. Fighting the impossible fight. by Dputiger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem with heavily encrypted solutions is that they rely on human perfection. There was a story a few months back about Sabu. He eluded the FBI for months until, in a hotel room, he made the mistake of logging into IRC without using Tor first.

    That was all it took. One non-Tor login, and the FBI had him.

    Human beings are not designed for constant watchfulness. We make mistakes. We screw up. Even if *you* stay perfect, the person or persons you're communicating with may not, and if the FBI or NSA wants the details of what you're talking about, they can "break" the encryption at either end of the conversation. Maybe they can't find you -- but if they find the people you're talking to, they can still grab the info.

    I'm not saying that all security is useless, or that there's no benefit to raising the bar. My point is that the solution to this is to *stop spying.* Because, in the long run, almost everyone screws up.

    1. Re:Fighting the impossible fight. by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. We weren't secure in our homes because we had unbreakdownable doors, and we weren't secure in our papers because papercuts were too ouchy. We were secure(ish) because the constitution forbade the government from spying on us, and those who did so would be...I don't know, embarrassed?

      Now that's not the case. It's not secret spying anymore. It's routine, obvious, and "perfectly legal!"

      And worse, the storing. The perpetual storage. Never forgetting, always searchable. What you say today innocently will hang you tomorrow (and justly and legally at that!).

      CNN is making jokes by writing about the "Obama reads your email" meme. I wish Obama just read my email. It's boring. But it's not Obama reading my email that kept me awake last night. It was the endless rows of computers, parsing, sifting, correlating, profiling, and storing, forever. And with every record they can "buy" from every corporation.

      But at least they can't read my physical, printed papers without a warrant, eh? I feel so secure. Thanks, National Security Administration. You've done your job well, and a grateful nation salu^H^H^H^Hbows to you.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    2. Re:Fighting the impossible fight. by timeOday · · Score: 2

      But this is NOT about how to avoid capture if you are Bin Laden. The issue here is data collection on ordinary people at a mass scale for no particular reason, thus the barrier for avoiding it is very low. What enables this mass data collection is that people are lining up in neat rows; millions use the same phone company, the same social networking site, the same webmail provider. All of this uniformity is driven by extremely small incentives, such as the convenience of facebook over email, or the cost savings of centralized webmail providers over the original decentralized nature of email, irc, etc. On the whole, I'm afraid Americans are very, very far from doing anything to stop the creation of these mass centralized databases such as facebook and gmail, and once they exist they will be exploited, absolutely, if not in public than in private.

    3. Re:Fighting the impossible fight. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      It would take just one election for a fundamentalist government of whatever religion to come in and start hunting that data for thought crimes retroactively (and don't tell me about ex post facto laws, if they think it's evil now then it was evil then).

      Exactly right. And, for those who think "It won't/can't happen here", I have three words: Senator Joseph McCarthy. Now imagine someone like McCarthy with the ability to search through a modern day NSA database. Add in a populace scared about some threat and you don't even have to convict someone of a crime to ruin them. Just "leak" that so-and-so is a Scary Thing Of The Week and society will do the punishing for you. Have a political opponent trying to stop you? Everyone's done SOMETHING wrong and if he hasn't, you can make up something and everyone will assume you're right because a) you've been right so much in the past and b) you have access to the NSA database so you MUST have evidence. Eventually, nobody who is sane or has anything to lose will oppose you for fear of being branded by you.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  27. Re:Can't have it all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Hint: It's the part that indicates the list isn't all inclusive and that reserves all rights not enumerated therein to the people. Or is that too far in for you to read?

  28. Re:Can't have it all. by gmuslera · · Score: 4, Informative

    Is not their problem if you feel that you don't have anything to hide. You could be committing 3 felonies a day without being aware of it. Anything that you did in your past could be used against you, even if not a matter of national security, or against some friend to frame you if they think you did something wrong. And could be in your side to prove that you are innocent, something that could be costly if even possible.

    And not forget that the **AA are in bed with them, the wrong you did could be having a background music in the video you took in a birthday party or that silly theme that you were singing with your friends when drunk.

    Don't think just in the present, and your precarious today's safety, Things will change. And for worse.

  29. HTTPS is not safe either by j1976 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, in an effort to hide from NSA you go all out HTTPS. However, to avoid getting those pesky "this site is dangerous!!!" messages browsers show you on self-signed certificates, you buy your keys from any of the larger certificate authorities. Safe? Sorry, no. Almost all those CAs work under American jurisdiction, or on delegation from American CAs. Assuming NSA doesn't get the keys in other ways, all they have to do to get them is to ask the CA and the company would have to hand them over.

    With those private keys available they can listen in on the HTTPS conversations in real time, and there is no way for the participants of the conversation to know this.

    Amusingly enough, the safest bid (well, to hide from NSA at least) would be to use self-signed keys despite all the browser warnings.

    If you still want to get valid keys, here is an interesting discussion on which CA to choose.

    1. Re:HTTPS is not safe either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      You don't understand how PKI / X.509 works.

      The CA signs the public key. The private key is not shared with the CA, the CA is not able to decrypt messages. The NSA, potentially having access to the CA's private keys, cannot simply decrypt your messages.

      The NSA could very likely have their own "approved" signing key or copies of legitimate signing keys for which they could launch a man-in-the-middle attack and present their own privately generated version of a certificate and proxy requests to the original site as requested by the end-user. This is also something difficult to keep transparent for long.

      That said, I'd be surprised if the NSA didn't have copies of the private keys of the larger web services. Sites such as Google and Facebook are too large of targets and getting copies of their private keys should be relatively trivial (compromise the servers and steal the private keys).

  30. Re: Can't have it all. by gstoddart · · Score: 2

    Everyone should be concerned because all the other governments will see the US doing this and copy it.

    And the next time the US chastises another government for this kind of thing, they'll get told to blow it out their rear.

    As you say, Google, Microsoft, et al have established the precedent they'll be willing to do this ... so every other government is going to tell them they want the exact same level of monitoring, and will expect to get it.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  31. Re:Can't have it all. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Those who worry are usually those who have something to hide or something criminal in the works.. Bottom line, you can't care about this, unless you do wrong or plan on doing wrong. That's kinda how I see it.

    Security concerns are not about common people, or even criminals being tracked. It's aboud political opposition being tracked.

    Snowden said he could listen in on conversations of anyone he wanted, including powerful people, and proceeded to do so as a test. No one came to get him for doing so without a warrant.

    Among hundreds, maybe thousands of agents, it's trivial to insert an operative to listen to opposition.

    He says he has data ready to release in case he's arrested. I hope it includes embarrasing conversations of said powerful people. Maybe then these jackasses will wake up.

    All people want is a system design that tracks and records everything the government does, as it tracks and records everyhing we do, from Twitterers to opposition discussing political planning.

    That currently does not exist.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  32. Re:Can't have it all. by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll presume that you're a troll but you drag out the age old "If you've got nothing to hide... argument"
    Here are a couple of issues with this argument.

    1. Retroactive violation of new laws:
    Let's imagine that you're a smoker and that you smoke in your house. The government could pass a law saying "Smoking is not allowed inside any building. Anyone caught must pay a $500 fine." They can now either go back and look at their surveillance data and retroactively charge you for smoking in your house in the past or they can put you on a list of people to watch and then catch you smoking in your house.

    2. If this is your stance that you have nothing to hide.... I presume that you don't have shades. Why don't you post your credit card statement on your front door for your neighbors to inspect "Hey, you've got nothing to hide". In fact let's make your browsing history completely public. How about your health records?

    You may nothing to hide but I suspect you're also not eager to share your personal details with the world.

    --
    Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
  33. Twitter by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 3, Funny

    I only use one time pads when tweeting.


    ...puts a crimp in the number of followers though.

  34. Re:Can't have it all. by fnj · · Score: 2

    We get it. I believe the reason that there is no right to privacy, the right to be left the hell alone, guaranteed in the Constitution including the original Bill of Rights is that no one of that time could have been reasonably expected to foresee that it would ever become an issue. The technical means for mass gross intrusion, and the present extreme degree of police state, could not possibly have been imagined at that time. One can criticise the oversight as a failure of imagination, but nobody is perfect.

    OTOH, the failure to recognize the problem and provide a new Amendment to banish it in modern times is an egregious failure of the system.

  35. Re:Can't have it all. by g0bshiTe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While in theory I agree. Then again what the government is doing is criminal. Did you not see the /. post yesterday about relational metadata and how it can be used. It was a very interesting read, and I actually did RTFA. It showed how innocuous data mining like this could be used to identify people, in this case the data was used to show how seemingly innocent data could point to potential threats in this case it was Paul Revere.

    I can fully see how this can be used to stop terrorist attacks, but so far we have finger pointing from every corner that says our intelligence community has had prior knowledge of several potential attacks and neglected to follow through. It is far more likely this will be used against law abiding citizens. What if I am a law abiding citizen but I begin speaking out against the injustices the administration is committing in the name of fighting terror and they use my data to pin point and come after me. I've committed no crime other than I could be labeled a terrorist for speaking up for my rights.

    The way I see it it's just another way the government can abuse or circumvent checks and balances that were put in place to protect our rights.

    Do you honestly want your government to know every minute detail of your life?

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  36. Stop paying the NSA by holophrastic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So let me get this straight. You've got a military that spends trillions of dollars. You've got eight national defence organizations screwing with your own citizens. And a) you think that you can dodge an organization that has spent that many dollars purely to find you, and b) you think that you don't have a cultural problem?

    Where do you think all of those funds come from? For every tax dollar that you spend, how much goes to military, para-military, and anti-crime organizations? How much of it winds up in actual crime? Are you spending more on anti-crime than you would on crime in the first place?

    Maybe you should solve the actual problem. Maybe you should start electing officials who spend your money on things that you like, instead of things that you dislike. I can't vote for you.

    And correct me if I'm wrong -- you see, my country earned its independence by asking nicely -- doesn't your country believe in violently fighting your own government to break free of restrictions to your freedoms? Have you forgotten how to do that? Your right to fight would seem to be the only freedom for which you do fight, and then you don't use that right to protect your other freedoms.

    One of these days, you'll wake up to realize that you've kept the right, but eliminated the opportunity. What good is the right to bear arms when you can't get away with using it?

    1. Re:Stop paying the NSA by EvilSS · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the problem, and I find this truly astonishing, is most people here don't seem to care! The only reason to keep the items recently leaked secret is to prevent public outcry over them. Same with classifying the numbers for these programs. Any terrorist smarter than a bag of rocks would have already assumed that we have the capabilities that we found out about last week. They are not that big of a stretch to imagine.

      My fear is now that it's out and the majority of people either don't care or outright support it, we have reset their expectation of what people will go along with and, thus, what they can get away with in secret.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  37. Re:Can't have it all. by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Funny

    Everybody does something criminal. On the average of three felonies a day.

    http://kottke.org/13/06/you-commit-three-felonies-a-day

    Want some bread with your water?

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  38. Re: Can't have it all. by PetiePooo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wrong, wrong, wrong! And wrong!

    It's a common fallacy spouted by those who foist surveillance on us. See here, here, or any other of the many hits when you search for privacy "nothing to hide"

    It goes right along with the "privacy and security are mutually exclusive" fallacy.

    People like you that are trading your long-term liberty and privacy for a current sense of security are going to rue this day eventually. These essential freedoms need constant vigilance. Many of our forefathers died defending them. They're rolling in their graves now seeing how so many are nonchalantly pissing them away.

    Here's your homework. Go read the Constitution of the United States of America. No, really. Read it line by line and understand why some say it's the most important and influential document created in the last 1000 years.

  39. Re:Can't have it all. by meta-monkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And don't say it can't happen here. It just did.

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  40. Re: Can't have it all. by Darth+Snowshoe · · Score: 2, Funny

    The parent should be modded up. It's factual, relevant, and worth remembering.

  41. Re: Can't have it all. by Ravaldy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The problem is that your right maybe someone else's breach of freedom. That's always the issue.

    E.g. You eat peanuts, the guy beside you is allergic. He has to leave the event because he can't be within 20 metres of peanuts...

    Collection of information can protect citizens from crooks but also impede on said individuals privacy. Which one is more important? Is there a balance?

  42. This is Stupid by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 4, Interesting

    None of those things will help you. To the NSA, the content of your email may be less important than with whom you are communicating. Yes, the care about the content of some emails, but their dragnet appears to be for network analysis -- sender, recipients, date, time, etc. The NSA almost certainly catalogs every DNS lookup you do. This is the stuff that is erroneously being referred to as metadata.

    One possibly surprising way to keep your communications private is to read/post your communications to a very public forum. That way the intended recipient is difficult to determine. Keep the communication slightly covert -- a little steganography goes a long way if you can fly under the radar. Just don't trust others with your privacy.

    Our rights are inalienable -- but only if we use them.

    --
    the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
  43. Turn off http. by backslashdot · · Score: 2

    We need a campaign to turn off http. Only https should be allowed, websites should be discouraged from allowing http access. Browser makers should help too, but having popups whenever someone goes to an http site.

  44. Re:Can't have it all. by Frobnicator · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This presupposes that privacy is a right, rather than a privilege.

    This is part of the reasons we have so many problems with government. At the time the US government was formed the premise was:

    The people have all the rights; the government has no rights at all, except those granted by the people through the constitution.

    For most people today the belief similar, except they swap people and government.

    --
    //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
  45. Certificate-based encryption is not secure! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Certificate-based encryption (like HTTPS) is only as secure as the certificates that sign sub-certs. If you accept certificates signed by a trusted CA, and that CA is compromised (i.e. controlled or accessible by the NSA, which all of them are), then you have no privacy, and all of your communications can be monitored without your knowledge or consent.

    Here's a good writeup on how it works:

    http://theorylunch.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/ca-mitm/

  46. Re:Can't have it all. by hawguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How would you interpret this:

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    What part of that do you feel authorizes the government to collect detailed information about our private lives? Or do you think email is not "papers" because it's stored electronically and that if our founding fathers meant for email to be included, they would have had the foresight to include electronic document storage?

  47. Re:Can't have it all. by d34thm0nk3y · · Score: 2

    Or you're a tea party supporter trying to start a nonprofit.

    Or a political advocacy group illegally trying to file as a non-profit.

  48. well spend by beefoot · · Score: 2, Funny

    Let me get it straight -- you want to keep NSA away from your personal data? NSA spends billions of dollars to snoop your data while Chinese government spend billions of dollars sending people to space trying to mine the resources from outer space. Which is more stupid?

  49. Would take effort by FuzzNugget · · Score: 3, Informative

    You could...

    Host your own mail server. Of course, you'd probably have to upgrade your internet service to a tier where incoming mail ports aren't blocked. You'd also need to have SSL/TLS support, ensure everyone whom you email hosts their mail on your server and that you can personally trust them. Not exactly practical.

    Instead of Skype, use a decentralized chat system like RetroShare. Takes some doing to trade PGP keys with friends, but works.

    Use an encrypted proxy for all of your surfing. Practical and quite easy.

    Use encrypted SIP for VoIP communications. No idea how easy or difficult this is, haven't researched it.

    Throw away your landline and cell phone. Goodbye 911 service.

    The point is that the middlemen have proven themselves unworthy of our trust and we should seek to avoid them. The larger and more daunting point is that this breakdown of trust could ultimately lead to a society's collapse.

  50. Dragging the usual dead horse out for a beating... by Medievalist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Those who worry are usually those who have something to hide or something criminal in the works.. Bottom line, you can't care about this, unless you do wrong or plan on doing wrong. That's kinda how I see it.

    Nope. You don't see it at all. Because illegal is not a synonym for wrong .

    Over 2000 years ago, Sun Tzu pointed out that when the laws imposed by the rulers are aligned with the customs and ethics of the people, societies are prosperous and resistant to crime, war and rebellion. When the rulers lose the way, as the corporate overlords of the USA have, the people become unhappy and the society becomes progressively more fragile over time. Eventually a neighbor invades or a province revolts and the rulers are replaced, because nobody's willing to die to protect them anymore.

  51. Lessee, all USA internet goes through root servers by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 2

    These root servers root packets to their correct locations....

    So duplicates of these packets can be routed to any other location...

    And analyzed for interesting material and then either saved or dicarded...

    So, no, there's not squat you can do. All internet traffic in the USA, regardless of form or format is theoretically possible to search, analyze and store. There may not be enough capacity to save all of it, but the interesting stuff, I'm sure, is compressed, catalogued and stored.

    Can "interest" be evaded? Probably. Encrypting within .pngs and .jpgs might work. Simple agreed upon coding systems in plain text might evade detection. Zipped and encrypted files, I expect, would all be saved for later processing.

    Would allusion packed Klingon poetry get through? Navajo? Elvish? Hard to say. You'd probably take up someone's time though. Keyword flooding might work to overload the filters, but it's hard to say how much capacity is involved. Flooding might not work.

    Partial separated messages would also probably work if there were no obvious semantic or other identifiable similarity. Tricky as well.

    This is just off the top of my head. There are undoubtedly more effective ways to use internet communication in an invisible way, which unfortunately leads me to the conclusion that this effort is going to be fairly effective at catching stupid people and lax people, but not people who are either sufficiently bright, or sufficiently paranoid.

    It obviously also doesn't have a lot of predictive power, otherwise two pseudo-Islamic nutjobs in Boston would have been stopped before they bought their first pressure cooker.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  52. Re: Can't have it all. by sasquatch989 · · Score: 2, Informative

    This presumes that reading the worlds gmails and facebook posts will actually stop terrorism, just as you presume that somebody who has a mythical allergy to being within a 20 meters radius of peanuts would venture beyond the assured safety of his home.

  53. Re: Can't have it all. by GLMDesigns · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The word "privacy" isn't used but please reread the 4th Amendment:

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Tell me if this isn't a more exact definition of privacy than simply stating: "People have a right to privacy."

    --
    If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
    Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
  54. Re:Can't have it all. by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's why DHS was monitoring the anti-war protestors in Boston instead of looking for terrorists with bombs, right?

    Because TERRORISM!

    Face it, the jokers in power aren't Republican or Democrat. They're authoritarians.

    --

    ---
    ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
  55. Re:Can't have it all. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2

    Okay. Tell me your name and where you live so I can get started.

  56. Re: Can't have it all. by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

    I don't want "it all". I just want our government to respect our rights and our Constitution. Is that too much to ask?

    That depends on which Constitution you are referring to. If it is the one written as a founding document of the United States, as written, with a long period of interpretation and decisions in the courts, then that isn't too much to ask for. If it is the same constitution, ignoring the long history and results of jurisprudence, but with a strong added dose of common misunderstanding and possibly fortified with fringe theories, then that probably is too much to ask for. The only thing you are likely to get is the first, but many people desire something like the second.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  57. Re: Can't have it all. by maliqua · · Score: 2

    fuck the peanut guy thats evolution telling you that you lost.

  58. Re: Can't have it all. by poetmatt · · Score: 2

    let me give you a small tidbit as to how many US parties respect our rights and our constitution. It's a number slightly less than 1, and it's an integer. There are very, very few individuals in any party that do respect them, and the majority does not.

  59. Re:Can't have it all. by bitslinger_42 · · Score: 2

    The problem with that amendment is the "against UNREASONABLE searches" bit. With the culture of fear created after 9/11, a significant portion of the population feels that this is reasonable if done in the name of fighting Teh Terrorists(tm), which has thus far made the surveillance at least appear constitutional.

  60. 4th amendment - general warrants by wytcld · · Score: 4, Informative

    The 4th's ban ban on general warrants (that's what it means when it mentions "warrants" in its historical context) strongly implies a privacy right. General warrants were authorization from the crown for its agents to search any person or premises they desired to, blanket authorization. The 4th amendment bans that. The government has to have specific cause, evidence already at hand related to a specific person or premise, to search at all.

    That the government in general has no right to search means by very strong implication that you have the right to the privacy which results. What else is it but your privacy that the 4th amendment says the government can't intrude on? It's nonsense not to find a right to privacy as a necessary implication of our constitutional protection from general warrants.

    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
  61. Re: Can't have it all. by stanIyb · · Score: 2

    Which one is more important?

    Privacy, obviously. Anyone who says otherwise is a naive fool.

  62. seriously by necrognome · · Score: 2

    If you are an individual (e.g. not an intelligence agency), and the NSA is actually interested in your communications, then you have far more serious problems than data privacy. If they are your adversary, you have probably lost whatever game you were trying to play.

    --


    Let's get drunk and delete production data!
    1. Re:seriously by Fjandr · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most people aren't concerned about the NSA looking at them right now. They're concerned about how this data may be used in the future should they suddenly find themselves with an administration which has a problem with their views on issue X and now has the means to identify all the people who have those particular views on issue X.

  63. Re:Can't have it all. by Fjandr · · Score: 2

    Nowhere in the Constitution is the government granted a power that overrides privacy. Taken together, the 4th and 9th Amendments should guarantee that privacy is a right which may only be overridden by a warrant issued based on probable cause.

    The government powers should be read as follows:
    Order Deny, Allow
    Deny from all
    Allow powers as written in Constitution

    Unfortunately, it's been re-interpreted as:
    Order Allow, Deny
    Allow from all
    Deny as few powers as possible without causing a revolt

  64. Re:Can't have it all. by Fjandr · · Score: 3, Informative

    Or anyone targeted by McCarthy's hearings.

  65. Re:Can't have it all. by FS · · Score: 2

    When the statement is made similar to "Those who worry are usually those who have something to hide or something criminal in the works," they are speaking directly to government surveillance on a massive scale. If I'm not significantly breaking the law I'll just look like background noise. It is a valid position to take based on privacy alone. If you are specifically targeting one person, then that's a completely different argument and completely unrelated to what is happening here. You are interested in your target. You have invested of your own funds and time to spy. If your target is not a criminal, what is your return on that investment? You are likely interested in damaging your target in some way. Conversely, the government's intention is not to damage its target. It is targeting everyone because that's easier than targeting people individually where they would need separate warrants for each case.

    Personally, I don't agree with it because it erodes rights, and at some point, unless history has taken a new turn that it never has before, this government will become so corrupt that it will need to be replaced or significantly modified. What the State will do with the information it has and is still collecting at that point is to defend itself in its current form by attempting to destroy its opposition or to control the citizens with tyranny. People who read history books can see this coming and are opposed to this erosion of rights. Those who live in magic pink pony land defend this erosion of rights because they somehow think that the human race has evolved beyond the point of repeating history.

  66. Privacy protection methods. by carp3_noct3m · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've been meaning for a while to write a guide for friends/family about this. I thing that first you really have to have an understanding of why this is happening, what the goals (hidden and obvious) are for those engaging in the spying, and determine where you stand on the subject before you can't make any sort of plan for implementing the level of privacy you desire. From there the entire discussion is about capabilities and methods. I will forgo the first points in the hope that the hacker mentality still thrives at least somewhat on /.

    First, there was metadata,

    Metadata combined with modern algorithms and big data can give it's owner just about everything on you. Here is what I consider metadata
    (this assumes every point compromised except local, imagine NSL's etc)
    IP - Your ISP will always know this. Circumvention includes tor, i2p, other anonymizing technologies. VPN does not secure your metadata. Wardriving. Rooted boxes.
    MAC - Much less of an issue, can be spoofed easily. Usually not know outside of edge network devices or ISP.
    Time - Heavily used but not well understood. Correlation of login times to compromised activity elsewhere holds up pretty good in court. The longer they've been watching you, the more dangerous to security this is.
    Other machine identifiers (agent strings, cookies, DNS, etc) - mostly a software (and knowledge) issue. Have to be able to prevent DNS leakage, spoof agent strings, keep machine clean of cookies (including harder to find/remove cookie types like flash) If you are on windows... this is your most likely failure point.

    Then, there was low hanging fruit.
    Low hanging fruit: cloud services (webmail providers, social networking, cloud apps, cloud storage/computing, voip/txt chat protocols, etc) If you use these services you must expect them to be compromised and not private. You can choose to not use these services, or compartmentalize use of them (which is my preferred method). Data poisoning becomes more relevant here. Now, you can attempt to be anonymous while using them (say tails(tor) for facebook), but the data is still compromised. But if they can't tie my identity to X, why does it matter. Two reasons: one, because if you are using a service like that, all it takes is one slip up to tie everything to you, and two, because there are other ways beyond even time-data correlation to do so (writing analysis for example)

    So, assuming you have figured out how to be relatively anonymous and encrypt your data (ssh, tcplay, dm-crypt, gpg) You self host as many services as possible, and directly connect to people/sites you "trust". You have in intelligence terms "gone dark" or "dropped off". I'm going to ignore the issue of DPI for the moment.

    This is where the majority of people who care about privacy want to be. They want to be just enough of a hard target that it's not easy to grab up their info. This is what the 90's cryptowars were about. The ability to go dark.

    The problem with this state is twofold: First, your data can still be retroactively inspected. So that AES-256 you think is nice and secure is finally cracked by the NSA (if it isn't already). Then they run it on gobbled up data from the past, and suddenly your encryption is worth jack. (save discussion of storage feasibility for another time, some of the math has already been done over on Schneiers blog)

    Second, once you become a target for other reasons, they will resort to other methods. First with off-site but close compromise. Usually ISP. Then escalated to remote compromise (trojans, keyloggers, etc through 0-days or backdoors) If for some reason you are still safe at this point, commence black bag operation. While you are at work, they break into your house and plant a physical keylogger, audio bug, copy HDD, install trojan (MBR not encrypted? evil maid!) or any other number of growing possibilities. This boils down to your physical security. Think your ADT alarm system works? Think again (well, this depends on who you pissed off, normal

    --
    "It's ok, I'm completely secure as long as my iron is off"
  67. Re:Can't have it all. by dcollins · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This kind of argument re: "the person watching will be bored/frustrated" may have worked circa 1948, but nowadays computers can do the work. When there's something useful then the computer signals it. No muss, no fuss. I'm always stunned by how many people refuse to get into the 21st century with their thinking on this issue.

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  68. Re: Can't have it all. by multimediavt · · Score: 2

    The problem is that your right maybe someone else's breach of freedom. That's always the issue.

    E.g. You eat peanuts, the guy beside you is allergic. He has to leave the event because he can't be within 20 metres of peanuts...

    Collection of information can protect citizens from crooks but also impede on said individuals privacy. Which one is more important? Is there a balance?

    Ok, first, the government cannot give you Rights. Rights cannot be taken away. (see YouTube for George Carlin) I know, it's called the Bill of Rights, but it's not. It's a list of vaguely defined privileges each citizen is given and can be taken away. Yes, legally taken away through the Courts or legislation. Sorry, it's true.

    Everyone deserves to have the same privileges, the problem is not everyone wants the same things and not everyone can (as in "able to") exercise their privileges either by choice, illness, injury, birth defect, etc. Are they being oppressed or denied anything? No, they just don't want or can't use a privilege granted them by the government. To use your example, the guy eating peanuts in a public place with no expectation of privacy or primacy can do so unimpeded. If someone gets near and has an allergy, you already gave the civil outcome to that, he moves away from the peanut source and continues exercising his privilege of being at the same public event. The guy with the allergy has to be more aware of his environment, but his "rights" are not impinged because someone else at the same public event is eating peanuts. There's no law against eating peanuts.

    Finally, can there be a balance? Sure, as long as all parties get along. As long as people are educated about what their PRIVILEGES are and what the difference is between them and RIGHTS. They learn to find ways to live with each other rather than kill each other. They mature in their world view to incorporate the viewpoints of others. We the People are the government in the United States, something our recent political discourse seems to have forgotten to mention. It's not an US versus THEM situation because WE ARE THEM AND US! We just need to find a way to protect our privileges without wiping out all the ones that protect our freedom.

    I do not like what's happened to the United States since 9/11. I think we went completely off the hinges and instead of pulling back once the major conflicts were over we plunged deeper into the paranoid abyss. When FISA gets taken out of the picture something bad is going on. BTW, the NSA can break just about any commercially available encryption out there (Hi boys! [waves]), so the "goodluckwiththat" tag for this story is absolutely fitting. You'd be better off hiding data in wheels of cheese like the guy above.

  69. Re: Can't have it all. by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

    Actually, privacy isn't mentioned in the Bill of Rights at all. It has been inferred though not explicitly mentioned.

    Sure, but remember:

    1. The constitution doesn't GRANT rights, all rights are thought to be 'natural' born rights everyone comes with when they hit the atmosphere here on earth. So, privacy is an right by birth. Unless the govt/state passes a law limiting that right, you have it.

    2. The constitution (again) doesn't grant rights, but instead enumerates the limited powers the government is supposed to have over you....the bill of rights is there giving special note to some rights, but you had them without the bill of rights...just just are there to special attention to those they mention.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........