iFixit Giving Away 1,776 "iPhone Liberation Kits"

netbuzz writes "In a clever bit of self-promotion, the do-it-yourself repair evangelists at iFixit announced today that they will be giving away 1,776 free 'iPhone liberation kits' that will allow Apple customers access to the inner workings of their devices by replacing the difficult-to-remove pentalobe screws with standard Phillips screws. 'Get a free insurance policy,' iFixit says. 'In the unfortunate event that your iPhone needs repair, you will be set to make any necessary fix. For situations when you need to get the battery out of your iPhone as quickly as possible—such as after dropping the device into water—you will be ready.'"

Comments

why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Trepidity]

I agree it's annoying that the screws are a nonstandard kind. But this "liberation kit" consists of:

1. A pentalobe screwdriver that lets you operate the iPhone screws.

2. Some Philips head screws that you can replace the pentalobe screws with.

But once you have #1, why do you need to do #2?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[dwightk]

then you don't have to keep the screwdriver with you

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[idontgno]

Indeed.

If you've been handcuffed and finally get the keys, why would you put the cuffs back on, even if you still have the keys? Throw away those shackles.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Anonymous Coward]

I get the feeling you can count to "potato."

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CastrTroy]

Also, if you're going to bother replacing the screws, why not replace them with something good like torx, hex(allen key), or Robertson? Basically, anything other than phillips and slotted.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Trepidity]

But you're still putting some cuffs back on! Just different cuffs that use a different key. I'll admit it's a key that more people own, so it could be useful to e.g. open the phone at a friend's house.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BasilBrush]

Because phillips heads are easily damaged when screwing and unscrewing them. And pentalobe aren't.

If you think that screws using a better but less popular standard are "handcuffs", then you're a bit of a drama queen.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[jklovanc]

Because torx, hex(allen key), and Robertson are much less common than philips. The whole reason for the kit is to use an easy to find tool (philips screwdriver) rather than a hard to find tool (pentalobe screwdriver). That objective would be defeated if the hard to find tool was replaced by an almost equally hard to find tool. Small philips screwdrivers are easy to find. Small torx, hex or robertson are not so easy to find.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've been handcuffed and finally get the keys, why would you put the cuffs back on, even if you still have the keys?

Some people like handcuffs.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Jaime2]

We already have Torx for that.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CastrTroy]

Yes, but the disadvantage of using phillips, is that the screw head may end up getting stripped, rendering your phone which was previously only able to be opened by a special screwdriver now in the state of needing a screw extractor to open it. And Torx, Hex, and Robertson aren't that rare. You can't walk into any hardware store and find them. Perhaps they only one you couldn't use would be Robertson, because they don't make them very small usually.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[roc97007]

I agree it's annoying that the screws are a nonstandard kind. But this "liberation kit" consists of:

1. A pentalobe screwdriver that lets you operate the iPhone screws.

2. Some Philips head screws that you can replace the pentalobe screws with.

But once you have #1, why do you need to do #2?

I'd say yes, for two reasons. At some time in the future, you will have (probably) several small cross head screwdrivers, and only one pentalobe screwdriver. Second reason, it's the principal of the thing.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[icebike]

The you can find drivers for the replacement screws at any hardware store or even Walmart, and any computer geek already has a set.

If handcuff keys were that easy to come by nobody would bother using cuffs, they'd just use zipties.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[icebike]

Because phillips heads are easily damaged when screwing and unscrewing them. And pentalobe aren't.

If you think that screws using a better but less popular standard are "handcuffs", then you're a bit of a drama queen.

And if you think Apple chose pentalobe because Phillips was easily damaged, you are delusional.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[EvanED]

At least in my experience, Phillips heads are rather more common than flat heads, and screwdrivers are about equally common for both. Both are far, far more common than anything else.

(I'm not saying that it's hard to find others -- just that if you're at a friend's house or something and need to borrow a screwdriver, there's a decent chance they'll have several flat heads, several Phillips, and little or nothing else.)

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[h4rr4r]

That is not a disadvantage to phillps, that is the whole point. The screw head is designed to stripout instead of over torqueing.

Now, using such a screw for something you want to open over and over is just stupid.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[interkin3tic]

Because you should be able to. That's what I find most annoying about iOS as a consumer: whenever I wanted to do something that wasn't default, apple seemed to say "Well, why do you want to do that anyway? You don't really need to. How about you not do that and instead do something else." In iOS 2 or 3, it was the background. "Why do you want to change it? It would just distract from the icons." Alert tones "We give you like five different tones for a text message, why do you want more? The ones we put on there are pretty."

"Why don't you want to use itunes to sync all your files? Itunes looks pretty! Why would you want to change it?"

"Why would you want sources that aren't itunes app store anyway?"

"Why are you concerned about your privacy? You're not doing anything illegal."

No real reason why I'd want to replace the screws in my phone (if I had an iphone) but I'd just want to.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

Torx is NOT better.
If I ever find the bastard that decided that it was a good idea to use Torx on my Jeep I will beat him to death with a sack full of the Torx bolts I have broken or stripped over the years.
If there is even one Jeep Wrangler owner on the jury I will get away with it too. Followed by a parade in my honour.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Joce640k]

But once you have #1, why do you need to do #2?

Because the TSA will confiscate your #1.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CanHasDIY]

But once you have #1, why do you need to do #2?

I can think of a couple reasons right off:

1) With the kit you receive a single pentalobe (is it a full driver, or just a driver bit?), which you can keep in one location. Conversely, for example, I own more phillips head screwdrivers than I care to count, spread out across at least 3 counties. Assuming you don't already own a pentalobe driver, what do you do if you lose the one driver/bit they send in the kit, or if you're no where near the toolbox you keep the pentalobe in?

2) Unless you're the type who keeps a device until it literally reaches its end-of-life, swapping the proprietary screws with non-proprietary ones is a major plus to aftermarket buyers interested in the model of phone you have. Heck, I can even see charging a slight premium for a "repairable iPhone" over one with the pentalobe fasteners.

Probably even more good reasons, but they escape me at the moment.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[h4rr4r]

That is not an iOS thing, that is a cult of Apple thing.

I tried to figure out how to get FFM working on OSX and every forum post was just replied to that way. Same with getting middle click paste. Yes, I really do want it everywhere and not just the terminal.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CanHasDIY]

Because phillips heads are easily damaged when screwing and unscrewing them.

Probably because you're using the wrong size bit for the job.

Or, the little bugger is so rust-caked that it has become one with the surface it fastens to. In which case, it doesn't really matter what kind of bit you use (unless it's an Easy-Out).

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BasilBrush]

Straw man.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[sl4shd0rk]

Because phillips heads are easily damaged when screwing and unscrewing them. And pentalobe aren't.

Apple couldn't have used a Torx screw to hold things together? They seems to be good enough for all those tiny screws in everyone's hard drive.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CanHasDIY]

Because torx, hex(allen key), and Robertson are much less common than philips... Small torx, hex or robertson are not so easy to find.

Also, with phillips screws, you can substitute a small flathead or even the tip of a knife blade in a pinch.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[roc97007]

I have to reluctantly agree with CastrTroy. It took me a long time to warm to Torex, but they really are superior to crosshead, and the tools are fairly common.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[jklovanc]

With hex or torx you need the exact tool to get the job done. With philips there are four sizes and they have some overlap. A screw that small would probably be a size 0 but a size 1 and possibly a size 2 philips screwdriver would also work. In a pinch, a sharp knife could also be used to unscrew a size 0 philips. The same can not be said for torx or hex.

As for stripping due to repeated opening, how many times would you open your iPhone? The objective is to be able to open the phone as quickly as possible in an emergency situation. In such a situation one would not have enough time to go to a store and buy the exact right tool.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[HexaByte]

Hey! Don't forget Binford Splines! Us old IBM equipment repairmen still have those, too!

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Anonymous Coward]

So you would rather have Pentalobe bolts on your Jeep? You think that wouldn't strip just as easy as Torx? Putting Trox bolts on a car may be braindead stupid but it doesn't make it crap for it's intended use.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[iamgnat]

I'll vote to acquit you only if you take out the bastard that thought the "triple square" was an improvement. I have Torx bits coming out of my ass, but no my new car needs a triple square to pull the seats out. You know what those extra teeth buy you? Even more stripped bolts than Torx does!

Is a good dead common hex bolt really too difficult?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BitZtream]

Right, because switching to pentalobe stopped how many people from taking apart an iPhone?

Let me answer for you:

0, zero, zilch, nada, not a fucking single person who WANTED to disassemble their iPhone was stopped by this change.

Contrary to whatever silly fantasy world you live in, 99.9999% of the population DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT DISASSEMBLING THEIR PHONE. They just use the damn thing.

If you think Apple chose pentalobe (which has been a standard screw type available my entire life) to stop people from opening up their case to replace the soldered in battery, you're just a moron.

ProTip: I have pentalobe drivers from my father that are older than I am. They are not uncommon in older high end cameras where you need tiny screws that don't strip when you breath on them hard.

Phillips is designed for low quality, high volume assembly line work. Read that over and over again until you understand why apple doesn't use them anymore, on anything.

Oh, and my local Ace Hardware carries a pentalobe driver set, seems like they would have picked an obscure head rather than something I can pickup tools for at the hardware store down the street ... don't you think?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[danlip]

I don't know what you are doing, and I am not familiar with Jeeps, but I have never stripped a torx and I have stripped hundreds of phillips heads. I would outlaw phillips heads if I could.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[ArcadeMan]

Nothing beats Robertson drive.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BitZtream]

If you are so clumsy/accident prone that when you buy a phone, you're worried about being able to open it quickly to remove the battery because it got wet ...

Then you probably shouldn't be so stupid as to buy an iPhone in the first place, don't you think?

I can say this safely because there is no fucking way you're going to open the case faster than the water causes damage, no matter how quick or what screws you have. Even if you have the screw driver in your hand, with whatever head you want, and I drop your phone in glass of water in front of you, you will not get it open before the damage is done.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[retchdog]

be that as it may, phillips was designed to cam-out to prevent damage from over-tightening, which is idiotic for most of its current applications.

the only reason other screw designs aren't more common is because they were patented (and sometimes marginally more expensive to produce).

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BasilBrush]

Probably because you're using the wrong size bit for the job.

No, it's because Phillips are designed to cam out, but it's a bad design because doing so damages the head. That's why there have been so many replacement designs, from Posidriv on.

Phillips screws are suitable for things that are screwed together once, and are never intended to be unscrewed again. Anything beyond that risks a stuck screw because the head's been stripped.

Or, the little bugger is so rust-caked that it has become one with the surface it fastens to.

Sure it does. The more torque you can apply without stripping the head, the more likely you are to dislodge the rust. You're far more likely to be able to remove a Torx or Allen screw for example than a Phillips screw.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[ArcadeMan]

Definitions:
principal (n.) - the chief administrator of a school
principle (n.) - a basic truth, law, or belief

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[interval1066]

Wranglers have torx screws? Where? I want a wrangler. Don't like surprises.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Anonymous Coward]

Phillips screws are designed to cam-out to prevent over torquing. This mechanism isn't necessary or appropriate on small electronics with tiny screws.
The Torx mechanism does not work well with very tiny srews. The wing/ribs on the head and driver become too fragile at that size. Its too easy to strip your driver and your head.

Pentalobe won't cam out, and works at very tiny sizes.

Despite your prejudice, Apple usually has a very good reason for doing anything. You may not agree with their reasons, but they are never vindictive or arbitrary.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Desler]

Pentalobe screwdrivers is as hard to find as typing "pentalobe screwdriver" into
Amazon's search box. Then you pay a couple of bucks.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BitZtream]

As an Apple convert, I suggest you just accept their 'way of doing things' for 2 weeks. Embrace it completely and accept it. Then decide if you hate it so much.

If you try to customize the shit out of everything, stick to Linux and Android.

What I found, and perhaps its because I got older and had more important things to do, is that Apple's devices, while not PERFECT, require far far less tweaking to use, once I accepted their way of doing things and 'go with the flow' it turned out that I actually LIKE the Apple way a lot.

Once you stop fighting it and accept for a few moments that they have put more effort into usability than you have, then it works out better. It won't fit into your 'work flow' until you adjust your workflow to work with it rather than trying to change it to fit into your work flow as it has been.

With that sad, do you realize how silly your attacks on them actually look? Have you actually compared those statements to other companies? Do you not realize they all do the same thing? Do you think that Google/Android are some how not EXACTLY the same as you stated above for iOS?

Do you really expect a device to let you do ANYTHING you want? So your phone can make you fly around magically? Do you want your phone to be like a Linux desktop where you constantly spend time maintaining it rather than just using it?

No real reason why I'd want to replace the screws in my phone (if I had an iphone) but I'd just want to.

Oh, so you're just being a disagreeable pain in the ass for no reason other than to have a reason to not like 'the man'? Well great, slashdot will cheer for you. No one else in the rest of the world will give a shit.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BitZtream]

WHAT principal? Just because you have a conspiracy theory about Apple being evil and shutting people out of opening their phones doesn't make it true.

You're principal is non-existent since anyone who ACTUALLY wants to open their phone, can, easily.

You want Apple to produce an inferior product, so that if you want to, you can open the case ... but you don't actually have a reason to open it ... and even if you did (such as water damage), you are a 0.00001% of the population who does. And ... the tools are readily available if it actually bothered you enough to do more than whine about it.

You're principals are fucking retarded, but I'm sure they go with your OMFGAPPLEEVIL juice pretty well.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Anonymous Coward]

2) I agree completely. The 'repairable iPhone' will command a premium. Unfortunately, that premium will be *at most* the cost of the appropriate pentalobe screwdriver, which runs about $3-5. To do that changeover, you'll need buy the pentalobe screwdriver *and* the replacement screws.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CanHasDIY]

be that as it may, phillips was designed to cam-out to prevent damage from over-tightening, which is idiotic for most of its current applications.

What's idiotic - over tightening the screws on a delicate electronic device, or using 'moron-resistant' screws that are designed to prevent people from over tightening fasteners (which, in the case of delicate electronics, tends to have a "shit I broke it" effect)?

the only reason other screw designs aren't more common is because they were patented (and sometimes marginally more expensive to produce).

Irrelevant.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BitZtream]

1) How often are you opening your phone? WHY are you opening your phone so often that you need to have a screwdriver handy?

2) I've never, in my life, seen anyone who has given a fuck about the screws when buying a used device. None of the reselling sites care, no one cares out side of the tiny group of slashdotters who aren't going to buy one anyway. No one pays extra for phillips screws versus pentalobe because .... ALL THE REPAIR SITES ALREADY HAVE PENTALOBE DRIVERS to deal with all the phones they get that are normal.

You don't have any good reasons and you're struggling to make them up.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[jklovanc]

By your logic every phone ever dropped into water is instantly toast. That is demonstratably false as many phones have survived a dip. Getting the battery out quicly can save a phone by removing the electricity before the water seeps to a critical part. If you have to go buy a screwdriver then the chances are much smaller that one will be in time.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[DutchUncle]

Phillips was not designed for low quality. It was designed to cam-out the driver rather than strip the screw threads. Stripping the head is an accidental byproduct.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[interkin3tic]

I'm a convert away from iOS. I had an iphone 3GS and still have an ipad2. Itunes irks the shit out of me.

Do you not realize they all do the same thing? Do you think that Google/Android are some how not EXACTLY the same as you stated above for iOS?

They don't though. I installed a custom firmware on my phone, replacing the stock android system. I can drag and drop media files onto my phone without the software insisting it manage what is on my phone itself, something that is not the case with itunes. I can install apps from elsewhere besides google.

Do you really expect a device to let you do ANYTHING you want? So your phone can make you fly around magically? Do you want your phone to be like a Linux desktop where you constantly spend time maintaining it rather than just using it?

Anything in it's power yes. If my phone came with an antigravity device, I'd expect to be able to fly where I wanted rather than select from a list of destinations allowed to me. The things I'm talking about are well within the realm of "possible."

Oh, so you're just being a disagreeable pain in the ass for no reason other than to have a reason to not like 'the man'? Well great, slashdot will cheer for you. No one else in the rest of the world will give a shit.

Disagreeable? The question was asked "why would you want to replace the screws." And you seem to care quite a bit. Why is that?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[scot4875]

Phillips screws are suitable for things that are screwed together once, and are never intended to be unscrewed again. Anything beyond that risks a stuck screw because the head's been stripped.

So let me get this straight -- are you putting forth the argument that Apple chose to use pentalobe screws for their customers' convenience? That they wanted to ensure that the heads wouldn't be stripped by the frequent screwing/unscrewing that they could expect?

Because if not, this sentence is just a red herring that adds nothing to the discussion.

The rest of your thoughts on the subject are just more evasion.

--Jeremy

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[drainbramage]

Warp drive man, Warp drive.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[unixisc]

Why, can't iFixit simply sell the pentalobe screwdrivers?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably because you're using the wrong size bit for the job.

Grrr. That's one of my huge pet peeves. I know as new workers if they know that Phillips bits come in sizes. If they don't, I explain it to them and tell them not to cheat.

Or, the little bugger is so rust-caked that it has become one with the surface it fastens to. In which case, it doesn't really matter what kind of bit you use (unless it's an Easy-Out).

Actually Phillips screws were not designed to be removed. They were created after slots, because they're self centering and the bit pops out when they are torqued properly. Power screwdrivers were new and didn't have any torque control, so it was put into the head/bit combination. Which sucks, because when you remove a screw you need as much torque as it was put in with, plus a little more if things got sticky. You can't do that with Phillips.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[kimvette]

The problem is most industries mis-use phillips heads. They are specifically designed to cam out.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives

> Created by Henry F. Phillips, the Phillips screw drive was purposely designed to cam out when the screw stalled[citation needed], to prevent the fastener damaging the work or the head, instead damaging the driver. This was caused by the relative difficulty in building torque limiting into the early drivers.

Your statement is akin to blaming violent crimes on guns, or blaming obesity on spoons. Blame the manufacturers who spec phillips head screws and bolts into their assemblies.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[unixisc]

What about Allan jacks and the type of screws sometimes used in furniture - like is sometimes available from Ikea, and other stores?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[g0bshiTe]

They do and I've not seen a set of cuffs that can't be removed with a sturdy paper clip, well almost none.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[g0bshiTe]

Torx, phillips and flathead screws are all the dumbest ideas ever to place on a vehicle.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[geminidomino]

I don't think so, Tim.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CanHasDIY]

Probably because you're using the wrong size bit for the job.

No, it's because Phillips are designed to cam out, but it's a bad design because doing so damages the head.

I only seem to have the "stripping the screw head" problem when I use cheap fasteners (or an improperly sized bit), which leads me to believe it's less a design issue and more one of product quality. The expensive, higher end fasteners you can buy don't seem to have quite the stripping-out problem that I see with cheap, slave-labor produced versions.

And yes, I have had the same damn thing happen with cheap torx fasteners as well (good luck finding a bit to fit that now-smooth circle), so it's not like the problem is exclusive to phillips' head screws. Thing is, I can "fix" a stripped phillips head screw by using a chisel to turn it into a flathead fastener; can't really do that with odd ducks like pentalobe or torx.

Or, the little bugger is so rust-caked that it has become one with the surface it fastens to.

Sure it does. The more torque you can apply without stripping the head, the more likely you are to dislodge the rust. You're far more likely to be able to remove a Torx or Allen screw for example than a Phillips screw.

Not really; first, if the fastener is sufficiently rusted as to prevent it from being removed by conventional means, there's a high likelyhood that the head of the fastener is pretty messed up to - rust can make short work of the lobes on a torx screwhead, so that the first time you jam a wrench in and turn it, the hole rounds off; allen heads I've had similar issues with (oddly, while the torx seem to round the fastener, the allen's prefer to round the tool itself...). In my experience, most rusted-in fasteners are created equal, in that removing them requires plenty of forethought, finesse, and PB Buster.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[DutchUncle]

As an Apple convert, I suggest you just accept their 'way of doing things' for 2 weeks. Embrace it completely and accept it. Then decide if you hate it so much.

1. Your use of the word "convert" is disturbingly apt. It is a mindset driven by revealed miraculous scripture.

2. Tried this. We *won* a Macbook a few years ago - got it for free - so I figured I couldn't go wrong . . . and so many things are wrong, all the time. My wife uses it for iPhoto, and that's about it.

3. I encountered exactly the same "Why would you want to do that?" responses to *any* question I asked of Apple support or the company making the one accessory I was foolish enough to buy (won't even dignify them by adding their name). If it's not in the application, then nobody could possibly want it, and if it is, then nobody could possibly want it differently.

Baskin Robbins' whole advertising focus is 31+ flavors in each store. There's a frozen-yogurt chain called 16 Handles. Variety is usually considered a positive in consumer products. Apple doesn't want customers, they want cultists. They say "Think Different"; they mean "Think All The Same Like We Do".

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[unixisc]

The various toolsets I've bought typically included bolts that did Allen. Not to mention that some furniture sets I bought left me in possession of hex keys. So if the screws were using slots of that shape, I'd be in luck.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[jklovanc]

Which takes much longer than turning to a friend and asking them if they have a small philips screwdriver. I usually carry one on me at all times on my key chain. It is part of a key fob that has a small knife, a bottle opener, a flathead screwdriver, a philips screwdriver and an LED light. Many people also carry multitools which have philips screwdrivers. Pentalobe screwdrivers are not unobtainable they are just not common.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[zmaragdus]

you are a 0.00001% of the population who does

0.00001% * 320 million people = 32 people. Methinks there are a few orders of magnitude more than your proposed count.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Above]

That's not quite accurate...

Phillips was designed for things that were generally designed to be assembled once, and not disassembled. For instance the "cam out" behavior is commonly used with special electric drivers for installing drywall in homes. If the drywall ever has to come down, there's no backing out screws. The drywall gets ripped down and the screws pulled out with a hammer.

If you look at the products that use phillips for assembly they are generally not intended to be field repaired. Think of a phillips as a replacement for a nail, or rivet, not some other sort of threaded fastener. In this context stripping the head was never a design concern, since removing the fastener was never a design concern. It's like saying rivets are bad because they have to be drilled out; that's kind of the point of using one.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BasilBrush]

What's idiotic - over tightening the screws on a delicate electronic device, or using 'moron-resistant' screws that are designed to prevent people from over tightening fasteners (which, in the case of delicate electronics, tends to have a "shit I broke it" effect)?

Fase dichotomy. For phone sized electronics you're going to be using jewellers screwdrivers, and you're not going to be overtightening to the extent of damaging the phone. But they will still strip a percentage of the Phillips heads you use them on.

Phillips makes sense when assembling something cheap, using a generic electric screwdriver. It's far from the best solution for hand screwing screws in electronics.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CastrTroy]

What I want to know is, if they are going through the trouble of making the iPhone hard to open, why not make it so that device is actually waterproof? My Garmin GPS (cost me $200) is waterproof, even though it has an external USB port. I don't see how it would be so difficult to make a waterproof cell phone. I really hate this business of having to put an extra case around my phone because they couldn't be bothered to make it a little more sturdy in the first place.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[UnknowingFool]

Right, because switching to pentalobe stopped how many people from taking apart an iPhone?

Wouldn't the answer be anyone who didn't have a pentalobe screwdriver? It doesn't permanently prevent anyone determined to get inside an iPhone as they can just buy one of these screwdrivers as they are not in a normal set.

If you think Apple chose pentalobe (which has been a standard screw type available my entire life) to stop people from opening up their case to replace the soldered in battery, you're just a moron.

No I think that Apple is betting on human nature. The more steps you put into a procedure the less likely the average person will complete the procedure. It's the same reason why syncing an iPhone/iPod is one step: plug in the cable. Now it doesn't take a genius to complete a second step like clicking on a "Sync" button. However that extra step discourages people.

I bought an iPod years ago to hold my entire music collection. My brother bought a Dell model. At the time, he was boasting the superiority of his device. Two years later I was still using my iPod. He kept his in a drawer. It was too much of a hassle to keep it updated, he said.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[jklovanc]

Do you carry you Allen keys everywhere you go? Typically, furniture Allen keys would be much too large to use on an iPhone. Every Allen key does not fit every Allen screw. The right Allen key in you toolbox at home really is not going to help you when you are away from home.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BasilBrush]

So let me get this straight -- are you putting forth the argument that Apple chose to use pentalobe screws for their customers' convenience? That they wanted to ensure that the heads wouldn't be stripped by the frequent screwing/unscrewing that they could expect?

The world is more complicated than the single reason for everything attitude of most posters.

For sure Pentalobe was chosen to discourage ordinary users from opening their devices. Yet it presents no barrier for techies, whether in the employ of Apple or not.

And it IS a better screw design, less easily damaged, whoever opens up the device.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[msauve]

Amateurtip:

I have pentalobe drivers from my father that are older than I am. They are not uncommon in older high end cameras where you need tiny screws that don't strip when you breath on them hard...
Oh, and my local Ace Hardware carries a pentalobe driver set...

Come back when you known the difference between Apple's proprietary pentalobe head, and whatever you're confusing it with.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[kimvette]

> If you've been handcuffed and finally get the keys, why would you put the cuffs back on, even if you still have the keys?

Maybe he paid good money for a dominatrix to handcuff him?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[unixisc]

But some of the things the GP listed above make perfect sense. Granted, we don't need to customize things like KDE allows, but there are good reasons for wanting the things people want, but Apple doesn't give.

The background? While black looks neat, chances are that I'd want my iPhone to look different from the next guy, and chances are that there is a limited choice of iPhone covers. If one just uses what Apple provides for wallpapers, chances are that that goal won't be achieved. Same thing w/ the ringtones - if it sounds the same as the next guy, the purpose is defeated. Some unique tune for my different ringtones would be needed. The other things - having to use iTunes to manage the phone, or buy from just the App store, I can live w/, provided they have everything I need, and then some.

The pentalobe screws? I don't care for that one - I'm willing to go to the nearest Apple store to get that fixed. Although it depends on what it costs me.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[roc97007]

Mostly ignoring standard fanboi rationalization, and I really shouldn't be feeding the trolls, but I do have one question: In what way does using a common screw head make it an inferior product?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CanHasDIY]

What's idiotic - over tightening the screws on a delicate electronic device, or using 'moron-resistant' screws that are designed to prevent people from over tightening fasteners (which, in the case of delicate electronics, tends to have a "shit I broke it" effect)?

Fase dichotomy. For phone sized electronics you're going to be using jewellers screwdrivers, and you're not going to be overtightening to the extent of damaging the phone. But they will still strip a percentage of the Phillips heads you use them on.

Yea, gotta concede that one to ya - I have the problem of thinking in automotive/industrial terms in most mechanical discussions, since those are the fields I'm trained in... industrial machines have some big fuckin' bolts, man.

Side note regarding the jewellers drivers: iFixIt has a really nice kit you can buy for around $50US, with all manner of different sizes of just about every type of fastener head you can think of. Plus the extension doubles as a T-handle, for those situations where you might need a bit more torque.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[roc97007]

Definitions:
principal (n.) - the chief administrator of a school
principle (n.) - a basic truth, law, or belief

Gaaah. And doing a google search to insure that one is using the right word is problematic because so many people apparently use it incorrectly.

I used to be a big believer in the "3 feet" rule -- don't write anything without a dictionary and thesaurus within 3 feet. But google makes it easy to look stuff up. And, apparently, easy to be wrong at lightning speed.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[wile_e8]

If you think Apple chose pentalobe (which has been a standard screw type available my entire life) to stop people from opening up their case to replace the soldered in battery, you're just a moron.

ProTip: I have pentalobe drivers from my father that are older than I am. They are not uncommon in older high end cameras where you need tiny screws that don't strip when you breath on them hard.

Are you sure about that? I thought Apple created and patented their own non-standard pentalobe screws and only sells the screwdrivers to Apple techs. It was specifically designed to not work with the screwdrivers available for camera repair or at Ace Hardware. There are many standard screws which are just as high-quality as the Apple pentalobe, going this route only serves to hinder any unauthorized "tampering" with the devices.

I guess I can never underestimate the spin Apple fans will go through to argue that Apple's user-hostile policies are actually good for you.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[icebike]

If you think Apple chose pentalobe (which has been a standard screw type available my entire life) to stop people from opening up their case to replace the soldered in battery, you're just a moron.

If you thing Apple Pentalobe has been around all your life, you had to have been born sometime around 2009.

This is a totally nonstandard screw head, not used previously in ANYTHING. You are probably confusing it with torx, which has 6 not 5 lobes.

Continue your education here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CanHasDIY]

1) How often are you opening your phone? WHY are you opening your phone so often that you need to have a screwdriver handy?

It's less a matter of frequency than it is a matter of location and circumstance. To whit, I don't keep a pentalobe driver in my "river adventure" toolbox (not cost-effective, despite the increased likelyhood of required dis-assembly due to device submersion in dihydrogen monoxide), but I do have a handful of phillips head drivers. Conversely, I don't really need to explain a reason to you, do I? It's my phone, not yours, and thus I'll do whatever I goddamn well please with it.

2) I've never, in my life, seen anyone who has given a fuck about the screws when buying a used device.

I have. So, I guess our anecdotes cancel each other out.

None of the reselling sites care, no one cares out side of the tiny group of slashdotters who aren't going to buy one anyway.

You seem to care, judging from the robustness of your emotional response. U mad, bro? Why u mad?

No one pays extra for phillips screws versus pentalobe because .... ALL THE REPAIR SITES ALREADY HAVE PENTALOBE DRIVERS to deal with all the phones they get that are normal.

"No one"

LOL. The way I see things, there's no faster way to marginalize your own opinion than to generalize. As for me, I'd much rather spend an extra $20 bucks when buying a device I can fix myself (say, replace a battery on) without having to go to a "repair site" and get raped with labor fees.

FYI:
iPhone battery from Amazon: $8-12
cost to have iPhone battery installed, out of warranty, by an 'authorized merchant' (i.e. Apple): $80-120

I think anyone who comprehends basic arithmetic will understand why a 'self-repairable' device is preferable to many consumers.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[tlhIngan]

If you think Apple chose pentalobe (which has been a standard screw type available my entire life) to stop people from opening up their case to replace the soldered in battery, you're just a moron.

Actually, I suspect a good reason was to avoid ham-fisted individuals from opening the case.

Because when someone doesn't have a screwdriver, ANYTHING becomes a screwdriver, including knives (butter and the like) and other objects.

Unfortunately, the average individual will try to "fix stuff themselves" even though they don't have the tools, the knowledge or the competence. For a more IT example - imagine you get a helpdesk caller saying their computer doesn't boot. Of course, what they didn't tell you was they read some website and blithely followed its instructions on deleting this, that and there system file.

The people who go to ifixit and buy the tool? They've already shown a level of competence way above the general consumer. Unfortunately, the number of people who use ifixit is very small compared to the number of people who will try to "fix it themselves".

In effect, Apple has created a user competency test for even attempting the repair.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[icebike]

Oh, forgot,

Post a link to a photo of old camera that uses pentalobe screws.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Em Adespoton]

Right, because switching to pentalobe stopped how many people from taking apart an iPhone?

Wouldn't the answer be anyone who didn't have a pentalobe screwdriver? It doesn't permanently prevent anyone determined to get inside an iPhone as they can just buy one of these screwdrivers as they are not in a normal set.

If you think Apple chose pentalobe (which has been a standard screw type available my entire life) to stop people from opening up their case to replace the soldered in battery, you're just a moron.

No I think that Apple is betting on human nature. The more steps you put into a procedure the less likely the average person will complete the procedure. It's the same reason why syncing an iPhone/iPod is one step: plug in the cable. Now it doesn't take a genius to complete a second step like clicking on a "Sync" button. However that extra step discourages people.

I bought an iPod years ago to hold my entire music collection. My brother bought a Dell model. At the time, he was boasting the superiority of his device. Two years later I was still using my iPod. He kept his in a drawer. It was too much of a hassle to keep it updated, he said.

A normal set of screwdrivers doesn't include a Jeweler's size 2 Philip's head driver. You need to get a custom set to get it.
However, the pentagram set that came with my drill/driver set handles pentalobular screws just fine. Sure, it doesn't fit all along the outside edge, but the interior angles line up, which gives more than enough torque.

Then again, I've used a few sizes of slotted head drivers to take apart everything for years; even used them to take apart a Mac Plus (Torx) back in the day to fix the infamous solder issue (they used cold solder on stress points on a fanless PC). Slotted drivers have the benefit of also being able to break traces on circuit boards when needed, slice through wiring, and do just about anything else you want -- assuming they're properly hardened. Been using the same set for the last 20 years (my previous sets weren't properly hardened, and I kept chipping them).

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[icebike]

Phillips was designed for things that were generally designed to be assembled once, and not disassembled.

Not true. Phillips was absolutely not designed for things that were never taken apart.

And drywall screws (ala buglehead screws) are easy to remove with a power driver, even those damaged by too much torque when installed, because the reverse plane of each slot is not damaged by to much forward torque. (I've removed entire walls of drywall which other workers put up by mistake before the insulation was installed.)

Yes, Phillips was designed to cam out before too much damage was inflicted, but that was only assured by screw hardness. Soft screws would often take the entire lobe out with too much torque.

Phillips is an industrial standard designed to solve the problem of the screw driver slipping out of the slot. It was never intended nor represented to be non-removable. That it occasionally is speaks to cheap materials.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Aryden]

You'd want to replace the original screws if you have to actually send it back to apple.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[sootman]

Slotted FTW! I want to be able to get into my phone with the same tool I use to remove lightswitch covers -- a butter knife. :-)

(This is this reason my mom started keeping a screwdriver w/ interchangeable bits in the silverware drawer -- because that's where my dad always went when he needed to unscrew something.)

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Em Adespoton]

Exactly. And that ignores the fact that it's a 15-minute (or longer) process to get the battery out of an iPhone.
If you were going to get your phone wet, and then immediately try to stop the damage, you'd do better to have a bag of rice on hand to drop it into.

Indeed... I've actually (successfully) pulled this trick. Just don't touch the buttons on the device, even to turn it off, prior to the rice trick. One device where I pressed the buttons was bricked because of it (even though I was attempting to turn it off) -- one device I've tried it on, as soon as I realized it was dunked, it went in a bag of rice for 3 days. THEN it got taken apart to ensure there weren't hidden pockets of water. THEN reassembled, recharged, and turned on.

If you start fiddling with screws on a wet electronics device, you're, well, screwed. You're more likely to let water IN to where it's not supposed to be than to keep it OUT.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CODiNE]

I don't know where that picture in the wiki article comes from, it doesn't look at all like the "pentalobe" screw I replaced with my iPhone liberation kit. It also doesn't match the screw shown in it's own reference articles.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Desler]

Only because you're ignoring the time spent for them to obtain it originally. It's not as if your friend just had that screwdriver appear in their hand from thin air.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't matter, he's right. You probably already know he is, and you're being a pedantic asshole.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Em Adespoton]

You're principals are fucking retarded

OK, I'm not usually one to play the pedant, but wow.

Now for an unpacking of that phrase...

"You are multiple chief administrators of an education facility are having sexual intercourse delayed."

[/asshat pedantry]

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Stormthirst]

Or you could be a decent human being and pay it forward by giving away the non-standard screwdriver to someone else. Sure they don't have the screws, but it can't be that hard to get the replacements.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

Mine is pretty old. They may have changed.
Check door hinges, and roll bar mounting points.
I love my old Jeep, but Damn they are expensive. (Toys/accessories.)

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[msauve]

Looks the same as these ones.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Em Adespoton]

We *won* a Macbook a few years ago - got it for free - so I figured I couldn't go wrong . . . and so many things are wrong, all the time. My wife uses it for iPhoto, and that's about it.

I encountered exactly the same "Why would you want to do that?" responses to *any* question I asked of Apple support or the company making the one accessory I was foolish enough to buy (won't even dignify them by adding their name). If it's not in the application, then nobody could possibly want it, and if it is, then nobody could possibly want it differently.

As someone who's been using Macs for more years than most current Apple employees have been employed at Apple, I can tell you there are always things to love to hate. However, the mindset among people like me is different from the Apple passivists, the Linux tweakers and the Windows powerusers -- When you look at Apple products as "they've packed all sorts of potential in, and then coated it with a 'don't scratch this' exterior," you start to see how you can reclaim the device for yourself. I don't tend to use a lot of Apple add-on software; having a BSD background, I DO tend to tweak the underlying systems a lot. I've also modified my share of Apple motherboards (to add components I then write drivers for, tweak functionality, etc).

In sort, if you get the response of "Why would you want to do that?" the question is either legitimate (so that you can be pointed to the best method of doing what you want) or you're asking the wrong people.

The bits I still haven't bothered fixing are global paste middleclick (there's a third party solution for that), fixing power management security, and re-jigging the way iCloud works with my local keychains so that I'm the one in final control of my data and security, not Apple.

These things can be done though, I just haven't found them worth the effort (I've been command-c/v/xing since the Apple ][ days, long before working in X with a mouse).

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Zynder]

You mean ensure ;)

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[xiong.chiamiov]

We do.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[xiong.chiamiov]

Contrary to whatever silly fantasy world you live in, 99.9999% of the population DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT DISASSEMBLING THEIR PHONE. They just use the damn thing.

They use it until they crack the screen; then they want a non-broken phone.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Lonewolf666]

You break the bolts instead of the bits?

I once watched a friend of mine (professional car mechanic, knows to buy good tools) break two somewhat expensive bits on a recalcitrant screw connection. The bolt was totally unimpressed ;-)

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

I have broken both, and I don't buy cheep tools either.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[jklovanc]

You still don't get it. The time from realizing I need to open the phone and finding the tool will be shorter with a philips than with a pentalobe. Ask a few people if they have a philips or a small knife. I bet you go through less than 5 before you find one. The original time it took to get the tool is irrelevant as the tool has already been purchased. That pentalobe screwdriver you bought of Amazon and is sitting in your tool box at home is not going to help you when you are not at home. Those millions of philips screwdrivers that others have bought and are carrying around in their pockets might help you. The sharp knife or the small flathead screwdriver would also work. Would you rather have one tool in one place or thousands of tools all over the place?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Princeofcups]

If you think that screws using a better but less popular standard are "handcuffs", then you're a bit of a drama queen.

Don't worry. Most of the people complaining about "handcuffs" don't even own iPhones. They just enjoy bitching about Apple.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[yurtinus]

And if I don't have a pentalobe screwdriver, I'm pretty sure I could ham-fist the right sized flathead into there. Apple isn't going to spend a bunch extra on designing a new screw and retooling their assembly lines to keep people from ruining their iDevice. The vast majority of ham fisted users won't know what Torx drivers are (much less use them) - they are perfectly adequate to as a competency test. Put more simply, Apple wants their devices serviced by Apple alone and is taking steps to ensure that happens.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[AmiMoJo]

You can break anything if you try hard enough.

Torx are fine, and if you think Apple really picked pentalobe so you wouldn't damage the heads every time you void your warranty you are delusional.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[AmiMoJo]

Replying to myself...

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were suggesting Apple chose Torx for the customer's benefit, it was just a general point based on what the GP was saying.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[AmiMoJo]

I was just about to say the same things. Wikipedia has more details.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[unixisc]

Why do you need to carry that everywhere you go? Do you repair everything that you own anywhere, or do you wait until you're at home and do it? If it's the latter, you can use the Allen keys, or pentalobe screwdriver, or whatever special tool you have so that you can open the iPhone. Incidentally, I'm not getting why an L shaped Allen key would be too large for an iPhone - most of the ones I've used are pretty thin, and sound ideal for an iPhone

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[stephanruby]

Because phillips heads are easily damaged when screwing and unscrewing them. And pentalobe aren't.

An idea fine in theory, but not in actual practice and/or usability

The end result being that many people just end up stripping those pentalobe screws completely bare because they use the wrong security screwdriver for the job. And then, it's no longer just the user who's locked out of his/her hardware, it's the Apple technician who can't get into the case without breaking it.

Not that this is a problem for Apple, if their proprietary Pentalobe screws are stripped bare, they can just charge the customer for the consequences (just like they would have done if the phillips heads had been stripped also and the case unable to open).

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[LordLimecat]

Oh baloney. I personally had someone ask about fixing an apple device, which I eventually turned down because neither of us wanted to deal with the hassle of buying a bit that I would never again use, on the off chance that I could fix the problem.

Im sure that many people are not dissuaded. Im quite sure that there are at least as many who decided not to bother with a self-upgrade / fix of an apple device because they felt like they were getting in over their head.

If the pentalobe's characteristics were really that compelling (because we all know cellphones require high-torque screws, right?), they would be used by more than one vendor. There's a reason that the pentalobe is categorized as a security screw; its because the whole intention is to make it a general PITA to work on devices using it.

Whether or not its effective isnt even relevant, its still obnoxious that they even thought to do it. It was obnoxious when I had to buy a tri-wing screwdriver to repair nintendo equipment in the 90's / 2000's, and its still obnoxious today.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[jklovanc]

Take a look at the picture on the right of this page. Do you think all those Allen keys would fit the iPhone screw? Only one might. Allen Keys come in different sizes and you have to have the right size.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[dj245]

The problem is most industries mis-use phillips heads. They are specifically designed to cam out.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives

> Created by Henry F. Phillips, the Phillips screw drive was purposely designed to cam out when the screw stalled[citation needed], to prevent the fastener damaging the work or the head, instead damaging the driver. This was caused by the relative difficulty in building torque limiting into the early drivers.

Your statement is akin to blaming violent crimes on guns, or blaming obesity on spoons. Blame the manufacturers who spec phillips head screws and bolts into their assemblies.

I have never, ever, had this happen. I have never damaged a phillips driver- and I use more than my fair share of cheap chinese-made ones. I have had lots of stripped out screws. If Mr. Phillips designed it to damage the tool at the expense of the screw, he has failed utterly. This is not reality and I doubt it ever war.

Also, I don't know the relative pricing of drivers vs screws back in those days, but damaging even a $2 tool to spare a $0.20 piece of hardware is pretty dumb.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[50000BTU_barbecue]

Yes, they should all be Pozidriv.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[gatfirls]

It most certainly does present a barrier to techs. You have to go waste money on a special tool for the perfect reason of _______.

There are literally dozens of designs that are basically the same but just like everything else apple made it "proprietary" by a little rounding here and smoothing there. Viola', where's our patent?

Of course, you may have something to back up what makes this design "better" and "less easily damaged" compared to the dozens of other like designs.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Plumpaquatsch]

The you can find drivers for the replacement screws at any hardware store or even Walmart, and any computer geek already has a set.

Yup. Right next to their pentalobe driver.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[NoMaster]

We already have Torx for that.

(1) Torx requires a much deeper, wider, and stronger screwhead than other types, including pentalobe.
(2) Everyone forgets that Torx itself has been a patented design for most of its life, and until those patents ran out in the early 90's drivers were difficult and expensive to buy.

Even in the late 90's I was unable to purchase long-shanked Torx drivers in Aus - the knock-offs weren't long enough, the local Textron agent didn't carry them, and Textron's licenced dealers in the US weren't allowed to supply us because there was a local agent...

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Above]

You took my comment a bit to literally and strongly. "It was never intended nor represented to be non-removable" is a far stronger statement than I (intended to) make. That is they are not like a security screw which has a specific purpose of being non-removeable. Rather my assertion is that removability was never part of the design criteria for a philips, so no effort was made in making them a fastener that could be removed and reinstalled multiple times with no damage. I don't believe for instance you'll ever find phillips with a "cycle count" listed for critical applications, where as it is easy to find things like bolts with a rated number of cycles.

Of course most phillips can be removed and reinstalled if you're careful with the drivers. We agree that the driver of the design was that slotted screws were not suited to the assembly line processes, and phillips were designed to be friendly to assembly line mechanization, including the cam-out behavior to save the tool being used. Early on they may have even been used for screws intended to be removed, but it was quickly discovered that was a poor choice of fastener for that application.

So I'll stand by my assertion that the vast majority of phillips installed today are never intended to be removed. The few that are intended to be removed are all used in low cycle count applications AND low torque applications, AND a desire for them to be serviced with commonly available tools. If any of those three aren't true other fasteners are almost always specified.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Above]

A proper drywall electric screw gun has a collar / stop around the bit. The way it works is that when the collar hits the drywall it prevents the bit from following the screw. The momentum of the screw carries it just enough further than the bit cams out (as the phillips design intended), leaving the screw at the perfect depth.

Many DIY folks (and some, uh, low end "pros") use a regular drill driver, where it is far too easy to sink the screw way too far.

Here's a video by Bosch showing off some of their guns where you can clearly see the collar / stop in action. They talk about adjusting it for depth.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CastrTroy]

I'm a cyclist, so I do in fact carry allen keys wherever I go. Even if I"m not going cycling I usually have my bike multitool on me because it's harder to forget it if you're used to bringing it everywhere. Also it does have very small allen keys. All the way down to 1.5 mm.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[mjwx]

The problem is most industries mis-use phillips heads. They are specifically designed to cam out.

Most people misuse Phillips heads.

They aren't meant to be tightened as hard as humanly possible then drilled some more.

People only damage the heads because they are over tightening or unscrewing over tightened screws.

Torx is a lot better with cam-out. But for applications that are going to have a crapload of torque to affix and unaffix, both are unsuitable.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[petermgreen]

I kinda like allen keys too, they are simple and seem fairly robust. I just wish there weren't so damn many sizes some of which are very similar but not quite similar enough to fit each other properly due to both metric and imperial sizes being in use.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[icebike]

You couldn't in 2009 you idiot.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[mirix]

Triple square gives more torque than torx. nothing wrong with it.

Pro tip for all the people here that seem to be unable to not strip socket cap screws - make sure the head is clean so you can fully seat the tool.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Skrapion]

Flathead drive doesn't have much going to it, but if your goal is to pick a screw that you can unscrew when you have limited access to tools, this is one of the few places where flatheads shine, especially if you have no screwdrivers.

Taking that to its logical conclusion, thumb screws would be even better. Who wouldn't want two thumbscrews sticking out the bottom of their phone?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[PipsqueakOnAP133]

I thought Apple created and patented their own non-standard pentalobe screws and only sells the screwdrivers to Apple techs. It was specifically designed to not work with the screwdrivers available for camera repair or at Ace Hardware.

Uh... did you realize that page doesn't have the word "patent" anywhere?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[readingaccount]

Some people like handcuffs.

Handcuffs can be a lot of fun though, particularly during certain sexual activities. But if you're unlucky and want to be freed, you might find the handcuffer is more interested in keeping you locked up on the bed while they rifling through your drawers and valuables, leaving you naked and restrained against your will. If you're REALLY unlucky, they might even pee on you while they do it.

Not sure where I'm going with this...

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[sjames]

He's far too busy singing about his Trapper Keeper to answer you.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[sjames]

Who the hell 'maintains' their Linux desktop? Configure once and enjoy. Set security updates on automatic.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Trax3001BBS]

Right, because switching to pentalobe stopped how many people from taking apart an iPhone?

Let me answer for you:

0, zero, zilch, nada, not a fucking single person who WANTED to disassemble their iPhone was stopped by this change.

Of course you have the stats to back up a statement like that....

It won't stop you, I or others that like to take stuff apart, but it will stop a lot of other people. It is a security screw and not
being used for the even torque the fastener sees; but to keep people from fiddling with it. I've fixed a lot of stuff and I still don't have
a pentalobe driver and would have to purchase one to take off the screws.

Google "security screw" with quotes then go to images - do notice what you get. They are a more expensive fastener use to keep people
from fiddling with them - but some will cause that's what we do. They also come in larger sizes for automobiles "security bolts"
I do have a socket set for those.

Phillips is designed for low quality, high volume assembly line work.

Sigh, we was screwed (intended)... When I first started using the square bit screws some 20 years or so ago I thought these are great,
easier to use and obviously modern technology till I learned of the disagreement.

Henry Ford of Ford motor Co had planned on using the square bit screws on his first cars, but a licensing depute with the inventor nixed that.

"Mr. Phillips had no such reservation over licensing to Ford, and, as they say, the rest is history!

http://www.packagingincorporated.com/2013/05/the-history-of-square-drive-screws/

BTW square drive screws would of saved 2 hours of assembly time for each auto.

And a thank you to IFIXIT.com for this give away. I have an account on that site as I like to take stuff apart: just no use for a ‘iPhone Liberation Kit’ myself.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[sjames]

Well now, that's taking the piss!

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[UnknowingFool]

For me, I wear glasses so I had a screwdriver set that can open small screws. Pentalobe screws I have not run across except in the iPhone.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[jklovanc]

Cyclists who carry allen keys make up what percentace of the population? Probably less than 5%. while people who have quick access to tool usable on a small philps would include the following;
Anyone with a multitool,
Anyone with a swiss army knife,
Anyone with a pointed knife
Anyone with a small flatehead
Any tech department
Anyone with a glasses screwdriver
Combined I bet that finding a person with a tool to remove a philips is much easier that finding a person with a bicycle multitool.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[nmr_andrew]

Is a good dead common hex bolt really too difficult?

No, it's certainly not too difficult. In fact, it's not nearly difficult enough. By using something non-standard, it "forces" a lot of people to bring their vehicle in for (expensive) service. And for those that want to DIY anyway, well, someone in their supply chain gets to sell another tool, so it's win-win. Unless of course you happen to be the owner of the vehicle.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[CODiNE]

That picture is a bit unclear because of the lighting yet it's still star shaped. The wikipedia image of a cauliflower looking screw is something I've never seen before.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BasilBrush]

It most certainly does present a barrier to techs. You have to go waste money on a special tool for the perfect reason of _______.

Getting the business?

Of course, you may have something to back up what makes this design "better" and "less easily damaged" compared to the dozens of other like designs.

Straw man. I said it's better than Phillips, not ever other screw. And it is better than Phillips.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BasilBrush]

The end result being that many people just end up stripping those pentalobe screws completely bare because they use the wrong security screwdriver for the job. And then, it's no longer just the user who's locked out of his/her hardware, it's the Apple technician who can't get into the case without breaking it.

A stripped head shouldn't mean breaking things. Drill the head off with a Dremmel. Then use small mole grips on the exposed shank.

And don't make out the need to do so is more frequent with pentalobe than it would be with phillips.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[gatfirls]

I almost spent more than a second trying to understand wtf you are trying to say and then I remembered to just look up post history: Yup. Exactly what I figured.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BasilBrush]

Very impressive debating there gatfirls. You must be proud of that argument.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[greenzrx]

Triple square gives more torque than torx. nothing wrong with it.

Pro tip for all the people here that seem to be unable to not strip socket cap screws - make sure the head is clean so you can fully seat the tool.

And use the right size tool.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[gatfirls]

Miles above yours, where you clearly don't even understand what you said in context. Just to recap since you may be drunk or confused: You responded to the post:

"So let me get this straight -- are you putting forth the argument that Apple chose to use pentalobe screws for their customers' convenience? That they wanted to ensure that the heads wouldn't be stripped by the frequent screwing/unscrewing that they could expect?"

With:

"And it IS a better screw design, less easily damaged, whoever opens up the device."

(keep in mind no mention of Philips in the post or your response)

Then you go on to post a response that really make no sense:

"Getting the business" (if you mean getting bent over the barrel by a corporation I guess you have a point)
"Straw man. I said it's better than Phillips, not ever other screw. And it is better than Phillips."

Good day.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[greenzrx]

I haven't had an issue with Torx cam-out. my Husqvarna is held together mostly with torx fasteners, and I find that if the right size is used, it's not an issue. i find that cam-out is only really useful tightening, it's undesirable when loosening.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[BasilBrush]

ANd the post before that, by me, said:

"No, it's because Phillips are designed to cam out, but it's a bad design because doing so damages the head. That's why there have been so many replacement designs, from Posidriv on."

"Phillips screws are suitable for things that are screwed together once, and are never intended to be unscrewed again. Anything beyond that risks a stuck screw because the head's been stripped."

And the reason we're talking about Phillips screws is because the kit in TFA is one that supplies Phillips screws as replacements for the standard Pentalobe screws.

Now the fact you didn't follow the context of the thread is your own fault. It doesn't mean there was anything wrong with my posts.

As to "getting the business", it's pretty straightforward. I distinguished "ordinary users" from "techies". A techie is equipped to do his job. One of the less onerous things a techie has is a toolcase, which, if they do or want to include servicing Apple products will include pentalobe drivers.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[phaggood]

If everyone has the key, it's not really a lock then, is it?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Plumpaquatsch]

Right, because switching to pentalobe stopped how many people from taking apart an iPhone?

Wouldn't the answer be anyone who didn't have a pentalobe screwdriver? It doesn't permanently prevent anyone determined to get inside an iPhone as they can just buy one of these screwdrivers as they are not in a normal set.

Sure, very few people have a pentalobe driver at home, while many have a philips driver or two. However - will it be small enough to unscrew two 3.6mm (1/7th inch) and back in again?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Plumpaquatsch]

I was just about to say the same things. Wikipedia has more details.

By "has more details" you mean "quotes ifixit.com and articles quoting ifixit.com".

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[Plumpaquatsch]

Contrary to whatever silly fantasy world you live in, 99.9999% of the population DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT DISASSEMBLING THEIR PHONE. They just use the damn thing.

They use it until they crack the screen; then they want a non-broken phone.

Ahh, so when you are able to disassemble your phone and you have a cracked screen, what happens then? Do you wave your magic phillips wand and boom the crack is gone?

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[OneAhead]

I see and hear people claiming this all the time, but have yet to find an authoritative source saying Phillips screws are designed to stripout. For example, wikipedia says they're designed to be self-centering, which makes a lot more sense to me. I'm starting to suspect it's one of those common factoids. It probably gets its popularity from ham-fisted people looking for an excuse after stripping out a screw ("yeah but these things are designed to do that"). In fact, I'll miss that excuse...

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[xiong.chiamiov]

Generally you purchase a screen from eBay or various other places, then use our (iFixit's) guides to replace the old with the new.

Having the correct tools does not magically make broken things unbroken, but it helps you to repair them.

Re:why replace once you have the screwdriver?

[mjwx]

I haven't had an issue with Torx cam-out. my Husqvarna is held together mostly with torx fasteners, and I find that if the right size is used, it's not an issue. i find that cam-out is only really useful tightening, it's undesirable when loosening.

I've never had an issue with torx either. But when I said a crapload of torque, I meant beyond what a human is capable of producing.

Problems with statutory rights

[gnasher719]

In the EU, including Britain, the customer has certain rights against the seller to fix problems even after the manufacturer's warranty runs out. An essential part of this is that the seller has to fix problems for some time if the buyer can prove that the problem was there when the item was purchased.

Now you turn up with your iPhone not working and all the screws replaced. "Hey Apple (or O2, or Vodaphone, or whoever sold it), the phone doesn't work and it sure must be your fault because I never opened it". "So how do you explain that all the screws have been replaced? You most definitely opened that phone. "

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[K. S. Kyosuke]

You put the old screws back before you turn it in.

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[cockpitcomp]

Just explain that replaced one screw at a time, therefore, the phone was never "open". The great thing about phone companies is they are always very understanding of their customers and willing to work with you rationally.

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[Alain Williams]

Which means: (sorry, this is an English language forum)

Now you can break up with your iPhone does not work and all screws replaced. "Hey Apple (or O2 or Vodaphone or who sold it), the phone does not work and it sure must be your fault because I never opened it." "So how do you explain that all screws have been replaced? You certainly opened up the phone."

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[roc97007]

Replacing the screws so that commonly available tools can be used to work on it, tells me that the owner intends to fix it themselves, which makes this scenario unimportant. Besides, as someone else said, in the unlikely event you have a real out-of-warranty coverage scenario, you can always put the original screws back in.

Incidentally, car owners have been doing this for many years.

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[CanHasDIY]

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=revert+to+stock

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[gnasher719]

You put the old screws back before you turn it in.

That's what I love about slashdot - quick, witty comebacks that fall apart when you look closely. So they give you a special screwdriver and replacement screws so you can put in the replacement screws and don't need a special screwdriver which you might lose, in case the phone has problems and you want to open it. But now you have to keep the special screwdrivers, the special screws, and a philips screwdriver in case you need to replace the screws when the phone has problems.

In other words, you just created for yourself three problems to solve one. And these screws are tiny, and what are the bets they are gone when you need them?

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[gnasher719]

Just explain that replaced one screw at a time, therefore, the phone was never "open". The great thing about phone companies is they are always very understanding of their customers and willing to work with you rationally.

It's up to you to prove that you didn't cause the damage. Not up to them to prove the opposite.

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[K. S. Kyosuke]

And these screws are tiny, and what are the bets they are gone when you need them?

Want another quick and witty comeback? You keep them in the same box where you keep the warranty card. Because, you know, you have to keep *that* one anyway.

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[CastrTroy]

By that logic, they can just go ahead and say you opened it, even if the original screws are in there. And you'd have to prove that you didn't open it and replace the screws, which would be impossible. If they want to fault you for opening the phone, they should have some sort of sticker or other mechanism which is destroyed upon actually opening the phone.

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[retchdog]

well, you put the screws in a ziploc bag with an index card denoting their provenance. thusly constrained, they tend not to wander away.

assuming you really want phillips screws in your iphone for whatever reason, do you have a better idea?

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[PipsqueakOnAP133]

And these screws are tiny, and what are the bets they are gone when you need them?

Want another quick and witty comeback? You keep them in the same box where you keep the warranty card. Because, you know, you have to keep *that* one anyway.

Lemme try this witty comeback thing! It looks fun!

That warranty card happens to be phone itself because it's got the serial number they can look up to see if there's a warranty left. So when we store the pentalobe screws in the phone, we're all good! Look, there's even two little holes at the bottom of the phone to keep them in! How thoughtful! Oh wait....

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[K. S. Kyosuke]

That warranty card happens to be phone itself because it's got the serial number they can look up to see if there's a warranty left.

In my country, the seller is obligated to give you a dead-tree warranty card if you ask them. For legal purposes etc.

Re:Problems with statutory rights

[PipsqueakOnAP133]

In all seriousness, the most important thing out of these "liberation kits" appears to be the screwdriver, not the screws.
There is no warranty problem if there wasn't any unnecessary change to the phone.
Keeping the phone as-is simply seems the most reasonable thing to do.

Warranty

[frozentier]

I assume with the turn of a screw you also void the warranty?

Re:Warranty

[roc97007]

I assume with the turn of a screw you also void the warranty?

Enh. What makes me uncomfortable about this question is the unspoken assumption that everyone dumps their i-device for the "latest and greatest" right about the time the warranty runs out. I think the general answer is, if you're planning to fix it yourself (BTW, good for you!) then the warranty does not apply.

Re:Warranty

[gnasher719]

I assume with the turn of a screw you also void the warranty?

No. For warranty the manufacturer would have to prove that you caused the damage. For statutory rights in the EU after the warranty runs out _you_ have to prove that _you_ didn't cause it.

Re:Warranty

[retchdog]

you can just replace the old screws. i doubt they'd notice.

Re:I liberated myself from iPhone

[Sarten-X]

When others have to go along with what you want, it's "liberty". When you have to go along with what others want, it's "servitude".

Those licenses and permits prove that you can be trusted in some particular way not to use your liberty to unintentionally infringe someone else's liberty. Without that proof, your liberty is indeed curtailed for the good of society.

Did Father Steve approve of this?!?!?

[TWiTfan]

The rest of you can burn in Hell if you want, but in THIS house, we stick to Father Steve's teachings.

Re:Did Father Steve approve of this?!?!?

[Savage-Rabbit]

The rest of you can burn in Hell if you want, but in THIS house, we stick to Father Steve's teachings.

The zookeeper says: Please don't feed the trolls.

Re:Did Father Steve approve of this?!?!?

[roc97007]

Of course he did not. This is absolute heresy. I imagine the Apple police are suiting up.

Re:Did Father Steve approve of this?!?!?

[twistedcubic]

The zookeeper says: Please don't feed the trolls.

Don't feed the trolls? On Slahsdot? BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA!!!!!

Re:I liberated myself from iPhone

[cockpitcomp]

This kit is for libattery not liberty.

It's about time

[roc97007]

I've been fixing ipods for years as a side business. [1] I don't make enough to be worth my time. The only reason I do it is that it offends me that such a popular device is considered disposable when the parts that break/wear out are replaceable. It seems to me that someone could really make a go at this, and I'm very happy that someone is.

[1] If you're interested, the things most needing replacement in my experience are (a) the cheap plastic headphone jack (b) the battery and (c) the screen in that order. All the parts and the tools you need have been available online for some time (although they used to be hard to find; common now) and it's not hard to do. But I can sometimes see why Apple doesn't want you to look inside. For instance, the commercial Sandisk SD card soldered onto the circuit board of the ipod mini. (They didn't even bother to take the label off.)

Re:It's about time

[roc97007]

We're geeks. It's what we do. I suspect we're a small demographic for i-product sales.

Re:It's about time

[ArcadeMan]

You can repair iPods but you don't know the difference between SD and CompactFlash?

Re:It's about time

[xiong.chiamiov]

Hi! We're trying to build out a comprehensive set of resources for people wanting to start a repair business ([1], [2]), and we'd love to have any feedback or suggestions you might have. Information on the most common repairs, like what you've just provided, is an excellent example of the type of thing we're wanting to make more common knowledge.

Re:It's about time

[roc97007]

You can repair iPods but you don't know the difference between SD and CompactFlash?

?? I very much do. My daughter's camera, for instance, takes SD cards and mine takes Compact Flash. It was an SD card with wires soldered to the exposed pins. How would you solder a Compact Flash card?

Re:It's about time

[ArcadeMan]

The iPod mini used CompactFlash, not SD.
http://www.radekw.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/hifi/20120303-001.jpg
http://www.instructables.com/id/Upgrade-Your-iPod-Mini-With-Flash-Memory---No-More/
etc.

Re:It's about time

[roc97007]

I have visual evidence to the contrary. I didn't know this would be controversial, or I would have taken pictures. It was not a CF card in a socket, it was an SD card soldered directly to the board. (Blue. Sandisk.) Perhaps it depends on the year of manufacture.

Re:Personal Trackers

[Joce640k]

You forgot one:

- Let the government track your location.

Re:I liberated myself from iPhone

[amicusNYCL]

I liberated myself from iPhone

It's such a weird promotion.

The latest iPhone designs use proprietary pentalobe screws that do not allow customers to open up their devices. Although you have purchased your phone, you do not have the ability to open it up to repair it.

Well yeah, if you have the right tools then you sure do have the ability to open it. It's not magic.

In the unfortunate event that your iPhone needs repair, you will be set to make any necessary fix.

No, not really. You'll be set to open up the phone using a different screwdriver. Congratulations.

For situations when you need to get the battery out of your iPhone as quickly as possible—such as after dropping the device into water—you will be ready.

Ready to go find a screwdriver. But not the one that opens the original screws, the other screwdriver that opens the new screws. Congratulations on your newfound freedom.

When people see your iPhone, in all it's liberated glory, they will know that you don't stand for restrictions on your hardware .

Not really. Since you have an iPhone at all then people will know that you really don't care about restrictions, or you wouldn't have gone with an iPhone. The kind of screws on the phone don't affect that.

You believe that repair choices should be up to the owner, that repair should be easy, accessible, and affordable.

But then you said "Fuck all that", and bought an iPhone anyway.

Can you Rom an iPhone?

[Deliveranc3]

If so they should have a CD of roms or something as well. There's a lot of software out there that's not on the apple store and can make a phone more robust (backups) etc.

Re:I liberated myself from iPhone

[BitZtream]

Since you pretty much always have to go with the crowd in order to survive in the modern world, by your retarded definition, everyone is a servant for everyone else.

Re:I liberated myself from iPhone

[Sarten-X]

*slow clap*

That's exactly the point. That's why everybody always bitches about "the man" restricting their freedom, why police are always disparaged, and why nobody actually likes their government. Everyone is indeed a servant for everyone, and the government embodies that ruling "everyone", so it's the target for the hatred of the perceived oppression caused by servitude.

you've not seen what most officers use, hinge cuff

[raymorris]

It sounds like you are only with one type, chain cuffs. They were popular for a few decades.
They could be opened with a wire while wearing them,especially if not double locked.

Most cuffs before and since don't have the chain in the middle, so if applied correctly it's nearly impossible to TOUCH the keyhole, much less pick it. If you can get the sound your butt and legs, you might be able to learn to pick them while holding the pick in your mouth.

Re:you've not seen what most officers use, hinge c

[Em Adespoton]

It sounds like you are only with one type, chain cuffs. They were popular for a few decades.
They could be opened with a wire while wearing them,especially if not double locked.

Most cuffs before and since don't have the chain in the middle, so if applied correctly it's nearly impossible to TOUCH the keyhole, much less pick it. If you can get the sound your butt and legs, you might be able to learn to pick them while holding the pick in your mouth.

I sure hope you typed that on an iPhone...

What kind of man doesn't have all screw heads?

[loufoque]

What kind of man doesn't have the full set of screwdriver heads for all sorts of screws?

Something like that

[raymorris]

"you are only FAMILIAR with" of course.

I was on a mobile. You can tell it's not an iPhone, because on an iPhone the first sentence would read:

Is stands hike ewe er any family are width won tip, change cops.

Re:you've not seen what most officers use, hinge c

[Cro Magnon]

I sure hope you typed that on an iPhone...

Or in handcuffs!

Apple made "Pentalobular security screws" in 2009

[raymorris]

You are confusing pentalobe with something else. Apple calls them "Pentalobular security screws" and introduced them in 2009.
What exactly do you think "security screws" means? A standard description is:
"The head of this type of screw is impossible to reverse. It requires special tools or mechanisms.

A leading manufacturer of security screws says they are:
Security fasteners,as the name indicates, are fasteners that provide an added level of security by their drive design that prevents removal with ordinary screw drivers.

Apple doesn't call them "pentalobular won't strip screws", they cal them "pentalobular security screws", telling us exactly what their reason was - to make sure you couldn't easily replace your own battery or anything using standard tools.

nonsensical

[Laxori666]

Problem: if I have to open my iPhone one day, it'll be annoying. Solution: Go through the pain of doing that *right now*!

Re:Apple made "Pentalobular security screws" in 20

[icebike]

Well, Apple used the wrong term, because these screws were not intended to prevent removal, just prevent the customer from removing the screws because nobody had the tools. They remove easily if you use the right driver.

Apple themselves had to have the ability to take out the screws for repair.

This was just another apple design decision of mistaking obscurity for security, much like their source code.

Why 1776?

[corychristison]

Why not 1337? I think it would make more sense.

Re:Why 1776?

[TeknoHog]

I think 80085 should be liberated.

Re:Why 1776?

[wildstoo]

This is just a guess.. but might they not have been playing on a association with a certain historical event.

"Liberation kits", after all.

Casio to the rescue!

[Zynder]

Even though they are slow and outdated, the Casio line of phones are Milspec ruggedized and as long as the o-ringed jack plugs are in place, it will survive a beating. These phones are the called the Commando (droid), Brigade (a side flip w/keyboard), Boulder(flip), & Ravine(flip). You can even use the touchscreen and take a call on the Commando with it sitting in a bucket of water! I had one. It was sweet but an 800MHz cpu and Gingerbread left something to be desired.

You're holding it wrong

[dutchwhizzman]

Seriously, the amount of torx I've broken/stripped the last 5 years compared to the amount of phillips heads is probably 50:1 and I've stripped a few torx head bolts. Actually, I've broken many more than I've stripped. I guess it comes down to buying quality tools and knowing how to use them. If you get cheap tools and/or apply force in the wrong angle, you will strip anything, regardless of the shape. Phillips head screws only have 4 flat surfaces to apply force on and due to the "point" of the tip of the tool, you tend to wedge your tool out of the head if you don't apply the force exactly at the correct angle. Torx makes it harder to apply force at the wrong angle, it has double the amount of surface for the same diameter on which you can apply force and it has a curved shape, making it harder to let the sharp edges of the tool cut into the head if you're working with small screws. I've probably spent a few thousand hours working on dozens of cars of over 10 brands in the last 5 year. Maybe you need to broaden your sample size to more than one individual vehicle and more than just phillips and torx before you come with such a strong judgement.

Re:You're holding it wrong

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

Go to jeepforum.com, pick the Wrangler forum, and tell them how much you love Torx. Don't forget to put on your fireproof suit first. :)

Re:you've not seen what most officers use, hinge c

[dj245]

It sounds like you are only with one type, chain cuffs. They were popular for a few decades. They could be opened with a wire while wearing them,especially if not double locked. Most cuffs before and since don't have the chain in the middle, so if applied correctly it's nearly impossible to TOUCH the keyhole, much less pick it. If you can get the sound your butt and legs, you might be able to learn to pick them while holding the pick in your mouth.

Chain handcuffs still seem to be popular. Maybe they are cheaper. If you're throwing someone in the back of a police cruiser with safety glass between the front seat and backseat, and doors that don't open from the inside, handcuffs are just extra security.

Re:I liberated myself from iPhone

[AmiMoJo]

You are missing the point. Apple discourage you from opening their devices. They won't sell you the right set of screwdrivers, you have to buy them on eBay. They will charge you an outrageous sum of money to replace the battery.

Contrast that with most phones where the back pops off without screws and the battery is effortless to replace. They don't charge you to replace it because it's so trivial to do yourself, or they will do it for you for free in the shop.

If you drop the phone in liquid, an apparently quite common accident, you need to get the battery out ASAP if you want to save it. With most phones that's easy, with an iPhone you need to rush home and find the screwdriver you ordered off eBay that doesn't fit anything else. Assuming you ordered one, of course.

Re:I liberated myself from iPhone

[amicusNYCL]

I'm missing the point? You're telling me that if I buy 2 screws to replace the 2 stock screws in the locked-down restricted iPhone that I willingly purchased, that I am now a freedom-loving patriot of liberty? If I wanted that kind of freedom (replaceable battery, etc), why would I have gotten an iPhone in the first place?

If you want the freedom to replace your battery, or anything else about your phone, then don't get an iPhone. It's that simple. A kit with a new screwdriver and 2 screws does not make the iPhone any more free, it just means you can use a different screwdriver to take the case off. It's still the locked-down restricted iPhone that you know and love, just now with different screws.

Contrast that with most phones where the back pops off without screws and the battery is effortless to replace. They don't charge you to replace it because it's so trivial to do yourself, or they will do it for you for free in the shop.

Right. So if the freedom to replace your own battery is something that is important to you, then that's the kind of phone you get, not an iPhone.

Re:I liberated myself from iPhone

[AmiMoJo]

I did get a different phone, but clearly there are lots of people who want an iPhone but also don't want to get screwed (no pun intended) by the screws and battery. That's why eBay has thousands and thousands of listings for screwdrivers, replacement batteries and pry-bars for opening Apple products.

There is also the general principal that people should not be obstructed from opening and repairing hardware that they own. Since the DMCA came in you guys in the US don't really own half the stuff you buy, but that is not the case in the EU.

yes, not secure. chain cuffs are safer for suspect

[raymorris]

Yeah, the cuffs are mainly to get the person to the car safely, and talking to them.
I wouldn't be to concerned about a suspect picking the cuffs while an officer is talking to them.
The LEOs who still use chain cuffs do so not because they are a dollar cheaper, but because they are safer for the suspect's wrists. On the other hand, the extra flexibility means they are less safe for the officer (or bounty hunter or whoever.). I'm sure some still use the cuffs they've been using for a long time, too, just because they don't feel a need to change after many years.

This is based on first I was a magician/escape artist who studied Houdini's notes, then I was a locksmith for a little while, then a bounty hunter.

Re:I liberated myself from iPhone

[strikethree]

Ready to go find a screwdriver. But not the one that opens the original screws, the other screwdriver that opens the new screws. Congratulations on your newfound freedom.

Yeah, well, a philips head screwdriver is MUCH easier to find than a proprietary, patented screwdriver specifically made for Apple products. So it actually is liberating... not that I own an iPhone.

WTF? Which crack-head came up with that one?

[RockDoctor]

For situations when you need to get the battery out of your iPhone as quickly as possibleâ"such as after dropping the device into waterâ"you will be ready.

Now, I've never picked up an iPhone (I think ; I don't tend to pay the slightest iota of attention to other people's phones unless asked to, and if I'm asked about an iAnything my answer is "I dunno, but it shouldn't need a moments thought, if you believe the puff from iPeople"), so I may have misunderstood it, but are you saying that you can't open your iPhone to remove and change the battery? What fucking crackhead thought of that one? How the hell are you going to make sure that the phone is off when you put away for the next month? How are you going to swap out the battery for a spare, charged one when you're away from a power source for a week?

I'll have to find out what a Nsane is, because that's definitely iNsane.