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PC Sales See 'Longest Decline' In History
dryriver writes "Global personal computer (PC) sales have fallen for the fifth quarter in a row, making it the 'longest duration of decline' in history. Worldwide PC shipments totalled 76 million units in the second quarter, a 10.9% drop from a year earlier, according to research firm Gartner. PC sales have been hurt in recent years by the growing popularity of tablets. Gartner said the introduction of low-cost tablets had further hurt PC sales, especially in emerging economies. 'In emerging markets, inexpensive tablets have become the first computing device for many people, who at best are deferring the purchase of a PC,' said Mikako Kitagawa, principal analyst at Gartner, said in a statement."
The PC is doomed, blah blah blah. All the grandma's are buying tablets. Anyone who does any real work are buying PC's or already have what they need. Nothing to see here.
Tablets now fall under the umbrella of being a PC. BAM! Problem fixed... no more PC sales decline.
"Never give up, for that is just the time and place when the tide will change." -Harriet Beecher Stowe ^_^
Computers made in the last 5 or so years are darn fast, and unless you are a hard core gamer, will be plenty fast for the next 5-10 years. I just built my father a modern computer in the hopes he won't need a new one for about 10 years.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
For some reason, there still remains this weird claddistic requirement that "pc's" (ie desktops, I guess?), laptops, and other devices be all conceptualized in separate boxes. Or, it could just be that the companies that are paid to do this sort of info gathering (and sorting) aren't changing as fast as technology...?
PC stands for 'personal computer', at least it did.
The laptop was the evolution of the desktop into a more broadly useful form factor.
The smartphone, and the pad device are precisely the same thing - just other points on the spectrum, not a whole different genus of computer.
That said, then, if one were to include the counts of all such devices that have the computing power and utility of a desktop even as short as 10 years ago, I hardly believe that the "PC market" is in decline.
One might even wonder then what the agenda is for such a naked contrivance to present the situation in such a gloomy light might be?
-Styopa
The PC is here to stay. What we are seeing is a longer life cycle. There is no need to update the hardware these days, there's plenty of power and storage for people writing the odd letter/email, social media and most games. Unless you're a developer or working with huge amounts of media data, PC users aren't going to notice a shit load of RAM, loads of cores CPU and a GPU capable of real-time Avatar level of rendering.
No mention of the fact that Intel and Microsoft are still bleeding customers on gross margins of 70%. Computers have to compete against other computing devices, and they are not doing so on price. Windows 8 being a tablet OS is the nail in the coffin.
it has everything to do with smartphones and tablets
a family needs only 1 PC in the now. but a smartphone or tablet for every member on average. lots of kids starting around 9 get their own smartphones. earlier than that for ipads
The main reason for the decline of PC sales is that PC's have gotten to the point where their useful life is far longer than it used to be. Other than bleeding edge gamers and enthusiasts, there is just no need to upgrade as often as people once did. The same applies more or less to businesses.
Nearly every person I know who owns a smartphone and/or a tablet also has some sort of PC. I really don't think the portable device boom is the culprit here.
So why pick a more expensive & less mobile PC?
That is a truly misguided statement. Here's a better one:
"Consumers use touch screens. Producers use keyboards."
Good luck using a tablet for tasks such as Photoshop or Blender. Heck, even using a tablet to type out a proper letter could be classified as cruel and inhumane.
The era of the PC is not over... only the era of the PC as an entertainment device.
"Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
What worries me is that if the PC market can't continuing making profit off volume sales, the prices of a computer (or its components) will go up. I'm still on core 2 due (hey, still works), and waiting for it to die so I can build something with 8-core.
pc owners are the producers of content on that computer network, not tablet users
Except its not true...real keyboard and mouse have uses, but the rise of pen+drawing screen is actually a better input for artists, hell anything where a pad beats static computer.
As for an iPad being better for consumption....seriously my 24" monitor is so much better for consumption than a tablet for *anything* videos, web pages. games...
The main difference is the trade between portability at the lack of some screen estate, power, storage, ease of input and it just happens in most use cases these are not as important.
At the end of the day, we just need fewer PCs than we used to:
- People can do their "consumption" media (browsing, videos, etc) on tablets or phones. Don't need a PC for that.
- People who use PCs for work have no reason to upgrade them as often as they used to, as the machines last for years and real world performance gains in hardware have slowed to a trickle. When most of my software is single-threaded, upgrading from dual core to quad core (or more) does absolutely nothing for me.
- Even gamers don't need to upgrade that often, as requirements have stopped going up unless you want the ultra quality mode. A three year old gaming PC can still play everything new at high quality, and that's never been the case in the past.
Add it all up, and we need fewer PCs today than we used to need. The ones we do need last longer than they used to. The market isn't going to go away, but it is going to become a lot smaller.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
The main reasons that sales are dropping...
Everybody that needs one has one, and they work well enough. Very few people need the latest and greatest
The various different activation and protection schemes make it a royal pain to upgrade
I used to buy new hardware frequently, and just clone my hard drive
Now, I hold on to hardware for as long as possible
I fear that if I upgrade, I will end up spending hours on hold waiting to convince some dude in India that I'm not a pirate
i feel like it's gotten easier to just upgrade
Why do people insist on taking their own personal anecdotes and projecting them onto the rest of the industry?
I feel like going for a swim today, does this mean the computer industry should make a waterproof model?
I suspect this is primarily because people who think of buying a new PC go to the store and see Windows 8 and think 'WTF? Why do I want a tablet interface on my 24" monitor?'
In a vain attempt to gain a few percent market share on tablets, Microsoft are killing their PC cash cow.
The Mainframe isn't dead, however it isn't as widely used as it once was. They are still new Mainframes being made, and any true Computer Scientist would drool to get their hands on one.
But that being said, they are not selling as many as they use to, most companies are going to PC based servers, because they are cheaper, and more software flexibility, and you are not as stuck with one company for support, and a large group of developers who can handle the platform.
Now the PC, are tablets going replace them? No, but they will bring the PC down to a few manufacturers. I expect Lenovo, Dell, Apple to survive in the desktop area, as they (Apple to the lesser extent) have a good hold in the business markets. However PC's would probably be more like Workstations reserved for more computer intensive work such as Software Development, CAD, Finance... But for other people tablets, with say keyboards could replace the rest of the people.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Perpetual exponential growth? Good luck with that.
I would expect this to be obvious to the casual observer, but I guess not. So, let me enumerate:
Primary reasons for the decline:
1) The PC has been around now for over 20 years. It no longer possesses excitement and consumer appeal.
2) SMARTPhones and tablets are better meeting the needs and desires of the consumer; their increasing sales are supplanting PC sales.
3) The PC market is saturated, either due to consumer need or financial constraint. (Plenty of foreign markets have consumers but lack capital to meet the saturation levels of Western countries.)
4) Digital product producers, online retailers, and brick & mortar stores have all been significantly marketing tablet and SMARTPhone devices to consumers while ignoring their traditional PC products.
5) Tablets and SMARTPhones have much shorter average lifespans than traditional PCs, creating more consistant and continual demand for their replacement.
Ergo, you have a very simple recipe for the decline of PC sales.
"PC sales have been hurt in recent years by the growing popularity of tablets."
That's BS, it's Windows 8's fault entirely. This study doesn't count used PC resale or a drop in computer (scrap) recycling levels. Tablets replace laptops, not PCs. There is no drop because of tablets. It is completely Windows 8's fault.
You conveniently ignored the rest of the GP's comment. A BT keyboard and typing a letter... great, but what about the rest of it?
Beware of the Leopard.
You forgot consoles. They are so woefully underpowered right now compared to desktop computers that it limits games since no big budget games will go PC only. The PS4 and and Xbone are not exactly sporting impressive specs either. I was pretty let down when their specs came out. You can be sure they will be around at least as long as the current generation, so that will stagnate gaming pretty seriously on the performance side of things.
True, but I would argue that using a keyboard on a tablet is somewhat like using a touchscreen on Windows 7. It will work, but it wasn't designed to be used that way and it doesn't work all that great.
"Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
What else did I miss?
You can use a mouse and keyboard over bluetooth, how is this much different than any other PC?
Android is now reinventing Desktop environments, they are all the way up to Tiling window managers!
Next comes overlapping windows and then full compositing.
Works fine for me.
Heck, it saves a lot of screen real-estate if you turn off the onscreen one.
Android is reinventing window management, they are up to tiling and this rate we may have full compositing in a couple years.
I still use only 4GB of RAM in both my work and home desktops. I do "normal" PC things like browse the web, listen to music, check email, and create documents. I also write software. Sometimes I do all of these things at the same time. Granted I'm typically using Linux, but I still never use any paged memory. When I want to play a game, I boot up Windows, and typically the game will be the only major piece of software running, so 4GB has still been enough for me. I had friends who were putting 12 to 16GB of RAM in a desktop three or four years ago. These guys don't even do any video editing or rendering, or anything that could seriously take advantage of that much memory.
In a year or two, I will probably upgrade. I imagine the introduction of new gaming consoles will start pushing game developers to start advancing again, and games will actually take advantage of better hardware.
Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
Part of the longer life cycle is the lack of anything new with widespread appeal. Since Windows XP, the new versions have been lackluster. Sure, they draw a lot of really colorful pictures on the desktop. But they don't do much that couldn't already be done.
The existing PCs are powerful enough for most users, and have been for years. Most users are running Word, EXCEL, or their open source equivalents. They've had enough speed and memory for years. New hardware buys them little more than a keyboard without fingerprints. New software actually slows the machine down due to all the glitz.
Sure, there are a few people like me who want more speed for video processing, or other computational tasks,, but we're the exception, not the rule.
The era of the home PC is over.
FTFY.
The market won't disappear of course, because of hobbyist developers, gamers, etc.
No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
The real issue here is that software is not being developed to exploit the new found power of modern PCs. An entire generation of programmers is wasting their time writing sophmoric beta "apps" for restricted tablet devices. People are buying these yes, but collectively our software and productivity levels are not advancing.
People used to upgrade their PCs to get a new OS with useful new applications. No such OS is being made anymore. Most of them, Windows, Mac and many Linux distros, are instead sliding ever backwards.
May the Maths Be with you!
Should have also said that I believe we're now in the era of multi-device, as more people have a tablet and a smartphone, either instead of or alongside the more traditional PC and/or laptop.
No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
Nope, it's still a play device. Arm sucks, why the fuck would i want a tablet with the abilities of a 386? That's right the ARM world is being to break the power of a 386/486. WOW! Bluetooth with a 386! What fucking alternate universe do you live in? Tablets suck. Keep hitting the button for you dopamine fix fucktard. Pavlov's dog en masse!
I love how this article fails to mention Windows 8 and focuses entirely on tablets. I haven't even owned a desktop since about 2006, instead using a laptop, but even at the office, anything with multiple cores has been fine so far as long as we have plenty of RAM.
I've been replacing a few Pentium 4 (pre-HT with 512MB-1GB RAM) systems here and there, but that's about it.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
I've ignored your drivel about a smartphone replacing the Desktop Computer...even though I agree the smartphone is a personal computer, I find them complementary devices.
Looking at your statement "PC has been around now for over 20 years. It no longer possesses excitement and consumer appeal." It needs to generate it. It needs to lower prices...produce compelling exciting machines, Where is the sambuntu +android compatible 8 core ARM laptop with 4X displays for under $200. The only think old is Microsoft + Intel (and Apple)...and Ironically copying Apples losing (vastly profitable) strategy. Looks like Android Desktop computers for us whatever you think of that.
I bought a T61p Thinkpad in 2007, and it's still my everyday machine. I've upgraded the memory to 8GB, hard disk, replaced a keyboard, and the battery, all very economically when the prices of those components came down. I love this machine, especially its keyboard, and am loathe to give it up unless I can find another with the same layout. In particular the pgup/pgdn/home/end keys are layed out in a manner which makes them very useful and natural for navigating within a window. I wish laptop chassis were standardized enough that you could customize these sorts of components easily so you can get just exactly what you want. I'm thinking about finally upgrading sometime in the next year, but am in no hurry. I'm considering a Thinkpad T530 or a 15" MacBook Pro with Retina display. I looked at the Razer Blade Pro, but I didn't think I'd like the keyboard, and had concerns about durability (due to lack of data on that aspect and not having seen one in person to gauge how sturdy they are).
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Some of use even have smartphone, multiple tablets, laptops and more than 1 PC. As it turns out the total cost for all this stuff is pretty amazingly low and it fits in pretty small part of the average human dwelling.
Why are people satisfied with 1080p. My 17" Dell laptop is 1900x1200. I want to replace it but every new dell is just 1080p and that's the upgrade they come stock with x900. I know the margins make it cheaper because of margins with all the 1080P TVs in production but jesus is a 17" laptop with more than a vertical resolution of 1080p too much to ask for?
Love or hate Apple at least their laptops have resolution Their 13" laptops are 2560-by-1600 and The 15" laptops are 2880-by-1800. That's twice the number of pixels as a Dell 17". I really wish Apple made a 17" laptop with retina display because I would buy it in a second.
The era of the PC is over. I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised at this.
That's drawing a conclusion on shaky evidence.
Drops in PC sales does't indicate that PC usage has dropped.
The real issue is two things:
- There's little in the way of new markets for generic computing devices. After 30 years, most of the population likely to ever have one have been served effectively by the companies selling them
- In existing, saturated markets, there's declining reason to replace existing systems. The sweet spot of memory, storage, and CPU power has been met for the majority of the uses that people have them for. Gaming is really the only area pushing a need for new computers, and even that is arguable in most cases. (Peripheral sales like new video cards is doing just fine, as an example). Even things like editing HD video of the kids is done more than effectively with five year old hardware.
That is the real problem. There's no need to upgrade a 3-4 year old system, short of hardware failures. The fact that even a small part of the market (and is IS very small) can do everything they need on a tablet, without a primary computer is more evidence that there's just no "new" uses that drive a need for new hardware, and a smaller "ultrabook" form factor isn't a compelling enough reason to get people to cough up $1k.
Fact is, other then web surfing, most of the things people have always used PCs for they still need to use PCs for. You can't store a terabyte of family video and photos on a tablet. If you have a Windows tablet, I suppose you could use an external drive. Wireless NAS is just too slow. You're not, generally, going to tap your way through your taxes on a little tablet.
PC era isn't over, but the era of 18-24 month lifespan for PCs is. If that doubles, then sales have to drop in half.
The PC is here to stay. What we are seeing is a longer life cycle. There is no need to update the hardware these days,
Hold on there why does anyone say this....I want more powerful hardware and can use it. Where is my 4X 1080P 24" touchscreen monitor, with keyboard with LED keys with these futuristic storage sizes with android compatibility...at a price I can afford.
Those are new monitors, not new PCs. You proved the GP's point. You talk about more powerful hardware, and listed nothing that actually involves replacing the PC. You just need to replace the peripherals.
Nail, head, hit. The PC has moved from the primary computer to more of a background workhorse. Eventually, it will merge with the server [1].
What has changed is that there are other ways to use machines other than keyboards/monitors, in the way of media consumption. Devices needed for media production are just less in demand. Where someone would view a YouTube vid on their desktop in the past, they might watch it on their laptop or phone today.
[1]: Something I find ironic since I do see a market for home servers that can do DNS caching, backups which rsync to an encrypted remote drive, OnLive-like streaming of video, SAN functionality with 10GB iSCSI, even a PCIe antenna to switch to LTE if the main upstream goes down. Ultimately, I can see the desktop becoming more of a background server (perhaps along the lines of Intel's personal servers), and would have multiple ways to access the data on it.
So what are you going to do, large scale video and audio editing on a Tablet or your Phone?. Oh that's right, you're going to make an AAA Game or some Movie CGI for a flick next year on that Phone and Tablet!.
Please...just because you don't have any work to do, doesn't mean the rest of us don't.
Because you != everyone. I hardly think my elderly parents want to work with 2 24" monitors much less 4 to surf the web. Teenagers and children aren't going to lug 4 monitors into bed while playing games or listening to their music. Before consumers had to buy PCs to get any functionality. There will always be a need for PCs but more and more it is being relegated to power users. Face it, a core 2 duo is still more than sufficient if all you do is catch up on Facebook.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Have you ever actually laid eyes on a mainframe? You seem to be confusing them with low-budget HPC clusters. IBM is the largest mainframe vendor and I can assure you that they are not "a bunch of PC servers with Infiniband."
They use processors unique to mainframes; they don't even use IBM's POWER CPUs. They certainly don't use "PC" processors.
The internal I/O architecture is also unique to the box. (This is why they were, for many, many, years, the king of transaction processing; they had some unique advantages over the PC/UNIX way of doing I/O.)
Externally, they can talk several different protocols; communication to the "outside world" is mostly TCP/IP, and communication to peripherals is done via FICON (mainframe I/O over Fibre Channel), although Linux partitions can use FCP. (SCSI over Fibre Channel.)
I don't think the boxes can talk infiniband at all. Why would they? That's mainly an HPC protocol, and you'd be a complete blithering idiot to be running HPC applications on a really-expensive business-oriented transaction-processing monster.
Who would buy a PC you can't use?
Many people are finding that they didn't need a PC in the first place when all they do is light web browsing and posting on Facebook. Previous to the smartphone/tablet, they needed a PC to do that. I think we'll see more special-purpose devices taking over functions that were previously relegated to the general-purpose PC.
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
That's not the real issue. What do most people need computers to begin with? They are not 3D modeling or doing highly computational mathematics. They needed a computer to surf the web, do email, and maybe now and then create documents. Leveraging all 6 cores of a Phenom for Excel so that a family can track their expenses isn't really worth a programmer's time is it? Gaming has been the only area where hardware/software has been pushed but not everyone is a hardcore gamer.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Well...
Beware of the Leopard.
The problem is that there is no killer app that needs to be tamed by new PC hardware. Any killer apps there days are more likely going to be on phones and need to be tamed by phones sized hardware.
Maybe one comes out one day, maybe with games, 3D, holographic screens, but right now it's all kinda meh.
I think I seen this coming when GHz stopped climbing in the early 00s as well. You can wrench out more power with all the other tricks, but this was the easiest way. Even these days, I can feel when that GHz limit has an impact, as a program brings a core to it's max and just stays there, because it or some subfunction isn't made for multicore, and then with a single CPU chomping away at it, I feel like I'm back in 2003 again in terms of processor speed.
Android is now reinventing Desktop environments, they are all the way up to Tiling window managers! Next comes overlapping windows and then full compositing.
And I might find myself welcoming the day. In the meantime, my cheapie Asus laptop running Slackware/KDE4.10.5 works pretty well for most of what I do. However it pans out, I don't want to be stuck with a touchscreen keypad for my main interface. That's fine for a dinky thing like a phone, but for "real" work I want a proper keyboard.
You really should look more into the wonders of bluetooth.
Mice, headphones, speakers, all kinds of fun stuff. You can even get some pretty massive tablets with great screen resolution.
Quite apart from the screen real-estate issues, it seems to me that using a touchscreen would be fairly strenuous for any serious amount of input. It's probably OK for something like Twitter, but for real input, you need a real keyboard.
I have what I need and it is quite old. I wouldn't mind an upgrade but I don't have to get one. Plus if I do want an upgrade I will buy a used machine where someone put the best of everything into it 3 years ago.
./'rs can remove that crap in a second but for most users they are stuck with the stuff and the various ads annoy and scare them.
Most desktops can be repaired for around $70 so they can last until they are so old it becomes silly. Laptops are way less repairable and more breakable so they vanish from the pool of used machines faster.
But one factor keeping laptops running is that when the batteries die people just turn them into desktops and are happy with the mobility of their phones and tablets.
The biggest factor keeping people away from new machines is the relentless bloatware infesting most new machines. We
I didn't know Android and iOS ran Blender or Photoshop. Plus, if you're buying an expensive large tablet with a mouse, speakers, keyboard, probably a USB hub so you can plug more than one peripheral, you might as well buy a computer with a touch screen, it's going to be less cumbersome...
This is probably the most fitting, in my perspective, folks think their PCs are "fast enough" and "capable enough" that when they are tight on money will put off purchasing a new one.
Windows 8 certainly isn't a reason people are scrambling to upgrade, not only do you get something different (change==bad to most non techies), you loose compatibility with some of the hardware and more importantly the older software you already have. This includes DVD playback.
You want sales you have to offer carrots, give the consumers more capability, less restrictions, bundle in Office... something that the consumer would think, wow, "I gotta get me one of those!"
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
The PC is not dead. For Windows, it was nearly perfected with Windows 7. Intel's Core i5 and i7 plus NVIDIA or AMD GPUs + 16GB RAM + SSD deliver the computing power of supercomputers from just a few years ago, and complete everyday tasks almost instantly. Why do people need to buy a PC that is only marginally faster, only to downgrade to Windows 8.n which is user-hostile on the desktop?
Tablets are new and rapidly advancing and people are buying them to do many things (snapshots, social networking, light web browsing) on the go, on their sofa, etc. but not to actually replace their PCs. Nearly any PC made in the last five years is "good enough" so why replace it before it fails?
The PC isn't dead; the market is simply saturated with computers that are finally "good enough" and a new computer is a downgrade thanks to Microsoft forcing the tablet UI upon everyone. I've had to install Classic Shell for Windows 8 users who are novices and complained the OS is unusable, so you can't convince me at all that Windows 8 is good for newbies.
Then for business, the Metro^H^H^H^H^HModern interface breaks usability and productivity; Windows 2.0's "innovative" overlapping windows (not so innovative actually - it was copied from Amiga) is removed. I don't know about you but when I am doing any kind of sysadmin or development work, I often have five to seven applications open, often overlapped so I can read documenation as I write scripts and code, or even work on spreadsheets.
I'd like Windows 8 if it came with the Aero interface and still supported glass, and the touch UI could be enabled as a choice - or even if it were the default and could be turned off, and if Metro apps could be moved around freely rather than be confined to full screen or tiled. I don't know about you, but even if I cared about touch screens on desktops and laptops, it would be a very secondary UI for me, because I want to keep my hands on the keyboard and mouse. I'm not new to touch screens either - I've been a PDA/tablet fan since WinCE. I own PocketPC (which I still use on occasion), iOS, and Android PDAs and tablets, and have used Windows XP tablets and each is great for its purpose, but when I did use the XP tablet as a desktop, I docked it and used only the keyboard and mouse. I never once used the touch screen while it was docked, nor would I bother with Win8's touch screen on a desktop or laptop.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
The report says most of the decline is from the collapse of the mini notebook market. AMD's main competitive product these days is it's Brazos and Kabini APUs. It's high end Richland/Pildriver CPUs are not selling at all.
Kids can most certainly appreciate a powerful machine if you bother to give one to them. They will happily lug it around too.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Hell i run a small minecraft server and a VM on my HTPC's 4GB of ram. This is on top of the recording 4 HD channels at once and then compressing them down every night.
Good-bye
The desktop industry will have to adapt at some point
No they don't HAVE to adapt.
the above is honestly the best idea for everyone.
No, it's the best idea for YOU. Your idea SUCKS from a low-cost perspective. Connectors cost MORE than chips, not less. They are the #1 failure mode on computers, each connector adds more risk of failure and warranty expense.
Have you noticed the trend toward FEWER and FEWER connectors on computers? This is why!
And this is from someone that screws around with hardware and the like.
If you eat twinkies every day, does this make you an expert on how to make a better twinkie?
> That's not the real issue. What do most people need computers to begin with?
They don't need the "power". They need the form factor. Tablets are basically a PC locked down to nothing but a one button mouse. For a lot of tasks, that just isn't good enough.
For a lot of trivial tasks, it's tolerable though.
The PC wasn't a new way of interacting with programs. It was just an older style machine that was under the full control of the end user. That level of control was what made the PC, not the keyboard or mouse or monitor.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Are you insane? A 4 and 6 year old is not lugging around my 30 lb desktop and 4 monitors. If we are talking about laptops, I'm certainly not letting them handle my laptop either. As for power, what they hell do they need a quad-core i5 that they can't do with an ARM processor? Do they math and spelling games work suddenly better? Now if they need to do a research report in a few years, they can use the desktop but by then who knows what they will use then.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I think Microsoft has a tablet product that does run those programs. No one really uses it though.
The point I was trying to make that you keep avoiding is that there is no line between tablet and computer. A tablet is a kind of computer and a normal PC can be used basically the same way as a tablet. For me the best part of that form factor is taking one machine everywhere. Ideally my smartphone would dock and be able to use my normal set of peripherals, then when I go to a meeting become a laptop by docking, and then when I go out to dinner and need driving directions I can just use it as it.
Performance isn't as much of a factor any more - a 7 year old PC will browse the web and get your e-mail just as well as a brand new one. Monitor resolutions are stagnating at 1080p... video cards that are 3 generations old still play games great on single 1080p monitors.
In short, for most people (gaming enthusiasts and developers excluded), older PCs still work fine, so WHY UPGRADE?
Yeah, maybe a new PC will boot in 10 seconds, or that office app will launch in 50% of the time as the old one, but when that 50% is only another 2 seconds, who cares?
There was a time when improvements in PCs were more dramatic - you could FEEL the change performance between one PC and the next, but we've entered an era of diminishing returns with those performance improvements. Sure, we will see good improvements in media encoding time, or see lag on a game that is run on 3 monitors, but most people don't do these things all the time, or even some of the time.
This is why PC sales have dropped. Everybody who needs a computer has them, and most people are ok with the computer they have, until it breaks down. This obviously will slow down sales.
Also, it's not so much that PC sales are declining as returning to a norm.
Starting in the late '90s, everybody got a computer because prices for the hardware were so low, the economy was still strong and the Internet was new and exciting. But many of those new computer users had no real use for a general-purpose computing device that had as much capability as a PC and even if the machine itself didn't end up gathering dust in the corner, rarely would it be used to its full capabilities.
Nowadays, smaller and more specialized devices - MP3 players, smartphones, tablets - offer the desired subset of a full PCs capabilities in a more convenient and easier to use form factor. True, a $100 tablet might not be able to play a high-resolution video-game or let you program the next Call of Duty, but it can probably surf the web, play MP3s and send email. Plus, it's far cheaper, usually simpler to use and takes up much less space.
Basically, all those people who had no use for a computer have stopped buying them. There was a bubble in PC sales, but it's popped leaving PC manufactures with a smaller - but more regular - customer base.
> Yes, clearly entertainment on PC is dead. There's no such thing as Netflix or Steam, those are just myths.
Both of those are already more effectively delivered to the average consumer through some sort of speciality appliance. Game consoles have been the primary focus of the likes of EA for a long time now. Netflix is something that you can do with a $60 appliance.
Comparatively speaking, something like Netflix sucks on a PC. It's a poorly optimized resource hog demanding far better specs than the task really calls for.
One problem with PCs is that coders are used to being lazy.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
They will eventually. You would do better if you used the terms 'mobile' vs 'workstation' instead. Tossing out 'tablets' as just toys is going to get you flamed.
Good-bye
They don't need the "power". They need the form factor. Tablets are basically a PC locked down to nothing but a one button mouse. For a lot of tasks, that just isn't good enough.
For a lot of "your" tasks it isn't good enough. Looking at Facebook posts requires no more than a touch interface.
The PC wasn't a new way of interacting with programs. It was just an older style machine that was under the full control of the end user. That level of control was what made the PC, not the keyboard or mouse or monitor.
The PC grew out of the legacy of mainframes and mini-computers. The PCs is essentially a less powerful workstation. In the past, the hardware needed to be better every few years to keep up with basic functionality and the PC was the only thing that could handle it. Smartphones were not quite capable yet. Tablets were essentially laptops with a touchscreen back then. These days, quad-core machines are more than adequate to handle what most users do. Tablets can do what most people need them to do.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Not niche, it is becoming an appliance. Everybody already have one. The exponential growth and amazement period has passed. So you keep what you have until it breaks. There is no (big) money to make on this kind of market anymore. It is just another mature market, like dishwashers. We are seeing the transition from boom market to appliance market.
You don't have that for the same reason screens have settled on 720p and 1080p, the masses frankly see no need in going any higher and aren't gonna pay the early adopter penalty to get the economies of scale to get bigger and badder as the new standard. Hell my netbook is 1366x768 and I can see why, when I'm mobile its just fine,I'm not gonna go spend crazy money just to get a higher rez when all i want is to do the service call and go back to the shop.
But one correction, MSFT didn't "turn" the PC into anything, despite MSFT trying to shove their shit in our face like the "Deep Wang" bit in Transformers 3 Windows 8 is doing worse than Vista did and Win 8.1 looks to be the first double flop in history. Oh they WISH they had done that, so they could jack prices to Apple levels, but in reality every retailer and e-Tailer is saying "We have Win 7 here!" so all MSFT has done is killed a LOT of sales and honestly gave the pirates a hell of a boost, pirate win 7 slapped on win 8 systems is starting to become the norm, at least in my area.
And I don't see anybody "running to Android", what I see is people refusing to pay MSFT for an ad-laden cellphone OS so they are just sticking with what they have. Most every person i have met doesn't "like" their Android or iToy, they tolerate it. This is why plenty of laptops still selling, anything more than a quick Google on those phones and it quickly gets irritating for most folks but with even the low end laptops have dual cores there just isn't a reason to upgrade as often.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
As for power, what they hell do they need a quad-core i5 that they can't do with an ARM processor?
Minecraft.
Buy more RAM dude! Seriously you should buy more while the prices are cheap, because there is NEVER such a thing as "too much RAM". I don't how Linux handles large RAM but in Win 7 the 8GB in my desktop is frequently filled with cache so everything loads quicker, and on my netbook that 8GB means that once the desktop is loaded its ALL running in RAM so the drive stays parked giving me better battery life. Sadly I had a sick family member when DDR 2 was cheap so now it'd cost out the Ying Yang to fill my desktop with the 4GB modules its capable of running, it'd be cheaper to replace the board and switch to DDR 3 than to just get more RAM with the price of 4GB DDR-2 modules.
As far as GPUs? Look at the HD7750 and HD7770, they score close to the HD6850 in benches while using less than half the power and heat, the HD7750 will even run without needing external power. But even with new consoles thanks to MSFT and Sony choosing a netbook chip (The Jaguar is based on Bobcat, an ULV netbook APU) I have a feeling anybody with a quad or better,like me with my hexa, is only gonna need a GPU upgrade and NOT toss the whole system like last time. Personally that is fine with me, I figure the HD7770s will hit the $70-$80 price point this fall so I'll just toss the HD4850 in the parts bin and keep on truckin'.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Which is why you can add a mouse and keyboard to them.
There are already devices that ship with them. Even some that dock a smartphone.
The PC is here to stay. What we are seeing is a longer life cycle. There is no need to update the hardware these days, there's plenty of power and storage for people writing the odd letter/email, social media and most games. Unless you're a developer or working with huge amounts of media data, PC users aren't going to notice a shit load of RAM, loads of cores CPU and a GPU capable of real-time Avatar level of rendering.
This is exactly what I was going to reply. There haven't been significant advancements in processing power, or in applications which require that increased power. Everyone has what they need. They'll replace them when they break or maybe upgrade them once in a while, but there's no need for the turnover we used to see...we've reached a point of diminishing returns where upgrading every 2 years or less just isn't worth it.
...what a PC is. They think it stands for "politically correct", if they think at all. They also believe that the internet only exists on their iPhone or iPad, and cannot conceive of the idea that the internet is available on a computer.
Case in point: For years I've been doing everything from Photoshop to to-do lists on a 17" laptop, my reasoning being that I can take my whole computing environment on the road with me. On this month's trip I borrowed a tablet to take with me to a conference instead of lugging the laptop. And guess what - for the browsing, email and occasional word processing I do on the road, the tablet worked incredibly well. It's a breeze to take through airports, too. A tablet stays in my bag, without that heart-stopping period of knowing that my MacBook Pro is on display to all as it passes through the X-ray machine in a bin of its own while I pray before the body scanner. And because the tablet is not my entire computing environment, I don't have to carry all of its accessories with me on the road. When I'm out there in hotel conference rooms and coffeeshops, my load is a lot lighter. If I do lose one, it will be lot easier to replace. So when I replace the laptop, it's going to be with a power desktop in the home office and a tablet with BT keyboard for the road. If I absolutely, critically need a forgotten document or a run of Photoshop when I'm traveling, I can always VPN into my "mainframe" from wherever I may be.
Currently tablets are not capable of running either of those programs well. They simply do not have the power. That will change, but not for a while. There is also the question of screen real estate. Photoshop on a 2560x1600 27"+ screen is a whole different experience from a 960x540 5" screen, for example, or even a linked 60" 1920x1080 TV.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
I buy a phone every 1 to 2 years. I buy a tablet for everyone in my household including my 2 years old son. I buy a PC for myself and wife every 4-5 years.
I would have expected the longest duration of decline in history to be the Roman Empire, that thing took centuries to collapse.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
I upgraded to 8 GB specifically to compress video. Adding the extra ram really improved GUI responsiveness. It's probably highly inaccurate to analogize this to running my GUI/browser/games/etc on one core, and my compression on the other core, but that's what it felt like after adding the extra ram.
ram is cheap. Don't skimp.
Since when are tablets not PCs? PC=Personal Computer. First PCs were desktops, then there were the portables, like Compaq that were the size of a suitcase. Then we had laptops, then notebooks, then netbooks, and now tablets. Aren't they all personal computers? Or does Gartner's use of PC somehow mean Windows desktop/laptop/notebook/netbook computers only?
In practical terms there are personal computers where the person owns and manages them and there are non-personal computers where somebody else owns and manages them (mini computers, main frames, super computers and arrays come to mind). Whether a personal computer has a keyboard or not is no more a distinguishing factor than whether a car has a manual or automatic transmission.
Sales of personal computers has not declined and is actually accelerating. Sales of personal computers with keyboards is on a decline. In other news, sales of wifi keyboards to use with tablets has been increasing at a steady pace.
I know of no one, including myself, that streams Netflix on a computer. I use a Roku and my iPad.
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Now, this signals that PCs have been universally adopted. Now that everybody has one, the sales will obviously decline. But this only means that the growth period of PCs is over, and that personal computing has reached maturity.
Distance between you and the display is usually around 50cm at that distance people tend not to see these pixels as blocky combined with Anti-Aliasing so it isn't that big of a deal. The problem is most Desktop OS's don't offer good zoom in and out controls.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
They (the majority of people) are not 3D modelling or doing highly complex mathematics, or expiermenting with music, or simulations, or art, or anything beyond the box, because the software is not there. The software is not there because programmers themselves believe that computers are now for surfing the web, email, MS Office, and playing Angry Birds.
And this might be tolerable if things just stood still, but instead they're going backwards as the new generation of programmers decides that Personal Computers should be even less usable. File Manger in Windows 3.11 was a very usuable and understandable application. I bought an android tablet recently which dind't even have a file manager. Those which could be downloaded made operations like copy and paste into nigh dystopian process. Don't even get me started on inputing and editing text on this device.
Yet, we see tablet concepts actually bleeding back into the desktop, making it even less usable. It's as though programmers have collectively decided to dumb down device they once used to create entire universe in, and to make possible things which others had never even imagined. The potential of PCs is being put back into the box.
May the Maths Be with you!
Get yourself a really nice tablet for browsing from the couch, in bed, or on the road. But, you STILL need a decent PC for typing up that occasional document. High-end tablet and low-end PC is perfect for the general user. People erroneously go for the laptop when what they want is something uber-portable not semi-portable (there are some cool laptop-tablet combos out there).
I figured this out as a movie buff who loves looking up actors and movies on the fly from my couch.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Have you actually used a 386? Not a computer that you think is equivalent to a 386. Not a 386-class computer, but an actual 80386 computer with 2 megabytes of memory, and a 500 megabyte hard drive, and a 256 color 320x200 display?
Go check out XenApp, they don't have to run it locally. With fast enough networks the latency is simply trivial.
960x540 has not been an acceptable phone nor tablet resolution for a quite a while.
They are looking only at numbers of the "integrated" systems... Acer, Dell, Compaq.. yes those sales are down cause they sell shit. Heck even in the 90's you were picked on for owning such a integrated system, Packard Bell was the biggest pile of crap pushing out non upgradable systems left and right.
So for brand name pc's sales are down, but it's because PC users have gotten smart, we build are own.
and if you look at those numbers, people who buy motherboards, cpu, ram, hard drives, cases you will notice the numbers have never went down.
Cyberpower PC states their sales have been the highest ever in 2012 and are on target to breaking last year's records in 2013.
Newegg's blog stated their CPU and barebone sales have been up the lasts 3 years as more and more pc users put their own systems together and know what they want.
rather than some Dell, Acer, Compaq throwing together crap parts, pc users pick and choose their parts and build themself. Or they pay someone to build the pc for them like Cyberpower where you pick the parts and they put it together for you with or without an operating system.
In those cases PC sales are actually up higher than ever. It's just people have moved from an integrated PC platform and PC users now "roll their own" and sales are higher than integrated pc makers.
If Dell, Compaq, Acer went out of business it wouldn't harm PC users one bit, we still buy our parts and put them together ourselves.
hell my "frankenstein" gaming pc is an Intel Core I-7 cpu, 16 gigs of kingston ram, a Kingston 120gig SSD system drive, a Western digital black 1tb data drive, an asus motherboard, Nvidia graphics card, etc etc
all different brands and parts i bought seperately and I buy new pc's every couple years.
PC sales are not down, go read the blogs of companies that sell these parts and barebone systems. Sales are only down for the shit systems that corporate buys in bulk like Dell/Acer/Compaq
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
File Manger in Windows 3.11 was a very usuable and understandable application. I bought an android tablet recently which dind't even have a file manager. Those which could be downloaded made operations like copy and paste into nigh dystopian process. Don't even get me started on inputing and editing text on this device.
But you are confusing what you would have done and what was needed to be done in the past. Why do you need a file manager if you are not administrating files? It's the complaint I heard when Apple did not include file management from iTunes/iPod ecosystem. One reason consumers needed file management was because that was the only way to move music from computer to device. With iTunes users synced up using the software only and it removed the need for users to manually manage files. Power users balked at it because it means they gave up control; however, the control hindering using the device as before the iPod: file directories were one of the few ways users categorized music. With iTunes/iPod, it categorized music according to metadata like playlist, Artist, Genre, Album, etc. Such metadata required that music files be exactly where iTunes had put them. A user changing the location would mess things up.
Yet, we see tablet concepts actually bleeding back into the desktop, making it even less usable. It's as though programmers have collectively decided to dumb down device they once used to create entire universe in, and to make possible things which others had never even imagined. The potential of PCs is being put back into the box.
Maybe at the GUI level like Win 8. I use command line to get a lot of things done.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
This may be a chicken or the egg problem, but realistic physics might actually be a draw for kids. Imagine a game which lets you build a city, and then smash it to pieces... Or a game which just happens to simulate fur, cloth and hair in a realistic manner.
Think of the desktop PC industry as being akin to the heavy truck industry. (A "heavy truck" means anything bigger than a pickup or van.) Heavy trucks move around most of the stuff in the world. Most larger businesses of own or lease some heavy trucks. Almost all businesses use shipping services that operate heavy trucks. They're an essential component of doing business, and they're not going away.
Heavy trucks work well, are used until they wear out, and are then replaced. About 2 million heavy trucks are produced per year worldwide. Nobody gets a new heavy truck because a new model just came out. New heavy trucks are better than older models, but not by much.
That's the role of the desktop PC today. Businesses need them and will buy them, use them until they wear out, then buy new ones. Some people will have them at home, and those are the people who had a typewriter at home before computers.
Adobe has released a version of photoshop for iOS. Photoshop Express is Free; Photoshop Touch is not.
OTOH, they may be stretching the limits of the "Photoshop" brand.
For a lot of "your" tasks it isn't good enough. Looking at Facebook posts requires no more than a touch interface.
Yeah, I look at FB on my iPad, but for creating any posts, it's not good enough. Maybe if I had one of those addon keyboards, it would be better, but I've yet to see one that's worth a shit. Typing at 70+wpm on a real keyboard, beats using a screen keypad anyday.
Just another day in Paradise
Sure I get it. You think that your children deserve scraps.
Not everyone thinks like that.
Some kids are appreciative of decent kit and responsible enough to take care of it. If yours aren't, perhaps you should consider that a result of poor parenting.
Intentionally buying crap you know to be inferior ultimately just subverts capitalism.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Even if not used for programs, that ram can be handy. Linux uses it as filesystem cache which is a hell of a lot quicker than ssd.
It's far too easy to end up with a craptacular experience when you start trying to cut corners with computing devices. It's not necessarily so much about being terribly powerful but avoiding total suckage.
Penny wise and pound foolish.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Companies like Microsoft, Dell, HP, and any other OEM PC maker need to wake up and realize this isn't a slump, it's a death spiral.
Yes there is a niche market for PC's now. Developers need PC's to actually create the applications and content used by mobile platforms. Many enterprise operations still require a proper PC to do things properly. Hard core gamers will never use a tablet or a console as their means to waste hours a day until those platform match or exceed the performance of a PC, and include a laggless mouse and keyboard combo..
However the rest of the world has move past PC's. Its not a question of form-factor, price, performance, or quality of OS running on it. There is no killer app or OS that will lure people back to the PC platform, there is no price point that will make people say, hey, lets revisit the desktop. Even if PC's got 100 times more powerful people have obvious indicated they do not care about performance if they can update their Facebook status on a phone with 1/100 the processing power of a modern desktop or laptop. To say that PC's will regain popularity among the masses is to also suggest that the abacus could make a comeback if you invest enough money into the platform.
PC is a deprecated platform relegated to a niche market that is waiting for Tablets to catch up performance wise.
There is also a generation of people that will NEVER buy a PC. Children today are growing up on a Tablet, and will see no reason to ever invest in the platform and will only use one if their job requires it.
Also I will see a shift eventually where the PC simply morphs into a Tablet, in which case you could argue that PC's as "Personal Computers" have made a comeback. But "traditional" platforms such as a desktop shoebox and clamshell laptops will disappear altogether.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
All of that is true, but why would you?
The distinction is all form factor now. Do you want something in your pocket, something you carry, or something that gives you a full workstation at a desk?
The only reason to have a docking station for a tablet is because it's hard to move files back and forth between your devices, but for people content to use the cloud that's a non-issue. Why connect "all that great stuff" to a tablet instead of just having a tablet and a PC?
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
.
Dedicated video card instead of onboard RAM is also a "zero cost" upgrade for those who want that.
Hard drive upgrades are the same story. Imagine, we can buy a 4TB drive for $140. So that machine that came with a 1/2TB drive can get 8 times as much storage for one-third the cost of a new average PC. For similar bucks one can upgrade HD performance to 2013 levels with an SSD.
So yes I wonder how they account for upgrades. One RAM, video or HD upgrade can equal "half a computer" upgrade, extending its life for two or three years.
I come here for the love
I do - I bought a laptop (Windows 8 even, since it hardly matters) just to be my home theater head unit. It plays all of the media files on my server effortlessly, streams Netflix, Youtube, and stupid one-off web video crap, streams every sort of online radio station, it's my one interface for everything now.
I used Roku for a while, tried a WD box that was recommended to me, but they just sucked at playing stuff from my media server. "Supports h264" just doesn't mean "supports it no matter how it was ripped", plus they just sucked at browsing a large media collection.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I know more and more people AND corps who would rather opt for real servers that can host 18 to 24 SATA disks at once, rather than for PCs with their limited set of 4 or so SATA ports. Add to this that it is easier to upgrade RAMs in server-grade machines than on classic PCs, and you've got a shift in demand. I fully expect classic PCs to be phased out in favor of server-grade PCs (a la supermicro or so) on one side, and by tablets and other small portable gadgets on the other side.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
Redundant internal engineering and resulting high reliability and security
Extensive input-output facilities
Strict backward compatibility with older software
High hardware and computational utilization rates to support massive throughput
There's no drive to design machines this way anymore? Somebody better tell IBM, as they haven't gotten the memo. They keep rolling out new models and customers keep buying them. (I think the latest estimates are that they are, after all these years, still responsible for about 40% of IBM's net profit.)
While they get little respect, IBM mainframes still meet all of those requirements (and no other significant architectures do.) The toughest is the backwards compatibility. You can, with a daisy-chain of dusty interface adapters, load any punch-card-based program (or a reel of tape), and run them just as if you would on a S/360 from the 1960's without changing a single line of code. And you can do this with a box just rolling off the line in Poughkeepsie today. It doesn't even involve a troublesome and bug-prone software emulator; every instruction supported on an S/360 is supported with current processors natively.
The I/O capabilities are still massive, and it's quite common for a mainframe to have more space dedicated to I/O adapters than CPU modules. (It's only in the last couple of years that the I/O offload capabilities on PC/UNIX boxes have come anywhere near to what mainframes have been doing since the 70's.)
And due to their cost and licensing structure, most of them do indeed run flat-out as much as possible.
That'll teach me to post before Googling. It makes sense that coupling links (previously using wholly propriatary "magic") would shift to Infiniband to save cost.
I don't doubt that the Top500 list has a bunch of iDataPlex boxes on it; it's built from the ground up to be a budget-oriented pre-integrated HPC solution.
But nobody at IBM, even the most greedy iDataPlex sales drone, would ever call that thing a mainframe, which are dedicated to transaction and business data processing, not FLOPS.
An individual PC will eventually fail physically. A cap might blow, a chip might blow, etc. Once 8-core monsters are all they make, it won't be any cheaper to buy a PC that runs existing PC software and is comparable to a Core 2 Duo.
I define "PC" to mean that the person who owns a device controls what computing is done on it. If a device's owner needs permission from some other organization to run a given piece of software, it's not a PC. Kindle Fire and anything with Galaxy or Nexus or both in the name are PCs. Apple devices whose name starts with iP are not. PlayStation 3 was until system software 3.21.
You're correct, pasted the wrong spec:
1080 x 1920 pixels, 5.0 inches
That's for the Samsung Galaxy S4. Much better, with my magnifying glass.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
I still don't believe "pc's are dying" - the problem is PC's got "fast enough" several years ago. There's no killer new feature that requires gobs more horsepower. My pushing 5 year old desktop can still play the latest games at max resolution on my 24" monitor without slowing down. Why on earth would I fork over several grand to upgrade it when it gets the job done? Until the hardware starts failing I won't be replacing parts anytime soon. *THAT* is why pc sales are slumping IMO. I don't know anyone who owns *JUST* a tablet and nothing else. They'd never get a thing done.
> As for power, what they hell do they need a quad-core i5 that they can't do with an ARM processor?
minecraft, wow, starcraft, final fantasy, elder scrolls (soon), etc.
nonlinear video editing (you'd be surprised how many kids are amateur videographers)
3D modeling (again, you'd be surprised how many kids. . . )
Not all kids are dumb kids who can barely figure out how to open Reader Rabbit apps.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
I remember a few years ago -- from about 1990 to 2005 - the PC would be significantly faster, about twice as fast, twice the size of RAM, twice the size of HDD every two years.
Every four years you had to have a new PC, if you were doing any serious work on the PC. (For instance gaming... ;) )
The last years I haven't really seen that, other than the graphics cards.
I look at laptops and they still come with 2GB RAM, just as they did four years ago. The normal graphics isn't any better than four years ago either, because they focus on making it energy efficient, not fast. The HDD is getting slightly, but not very much larger.
There's no need for me to upgrade if there's no need for me to upgrade.
Windows 8 certainly doesn't feel like an upgrade, either.
IPS screens in high res feels like an upgrade, but it's mainly Asus that managed to make something out of that, and those "zenbooks" have their own flora of problems...
Make me something I want to buy, and I'll buy. Stop waiting for *APPLE* to make something, then copy that and wondering why noone buys your stuff!
(Also, what's up with keyboards? PCs use to have a lovely line of PgUp/Home/etc to the right, but when apple removed it, it vanished on PCs as well! The key keeps walking away to the right. The enter key can't make up it's mind. Whut?)
Thanks to the blessing that is HDMI its beyond butt simple to plug a PC into a TV
But you'll need the right case in order to get a spouse to agree.
and you'll be rocking your games in glorious 1080P in no time, with your choice of controller. Hell with Steam having Big Picture mode
Does Steam support buying in Big Picture mode? And a few weeks ago, I tried going to Big Picture mode on Steam on my aunt's PC running Windows 8 (with Classic Shell) and either Steam crashed or the video driver crashed.
if they want to game i can take something like this quad core
PlayStation 4 has eight cores. Eight is greater than four.
and just have me slap it into one of the mini cases
For one thing, you don't serve my area. For another, a PlayStation 4 allows one to walk in and walk out 15 minutes later with a console.
So if they want to sell more PCs and laptops frankly they need to be putting out some ads showing folks just how easy it is
Someone in another thread claims that any gaming PC under $500 will lack most or all of these:
What answer should I give?
However PC's would probably be more like Workstations reserved for more computer intensive work such as Software Development
I code in Python on my netbook. If a tablet with a keyboard can't do this, and devices capable of software development become no longer affordable to the general public, then on what machine should high school kids be exposed to programming?
Hello, I do and in fact I prefer it over the device-specific options that I have. From the couch, I prefer a full-fledged PC streaming to a 50" monitor and maybe to a laptop on the coffee table if I am playing a game on the other (I'd like to point out that instead of PIP that would be picture-out-of-picture, or POOP).
The killer feature for me is alt-tabbing or resizing my way back into a full computer experience--all without interrupting playback (I'm usually doing something else while watching tv or netflix, so my priorities might be different).
... CPU performance has stalled. Software tools and programmers are still decades away from re-learning how to code in parallel. Lastly many programs cannot be parallelized.
CPU's have hit a brick wall in terms of clock speed/power. Until the next breakthrough in materials science that allows clockspeed/heat to not be an issue again performance will remain mediocre.
Facts:
1. More people use computing devices than ever before
2. More people carry around their computing devices than ever before
Facts 1 and 2 are consistent with my use of a 10" laptop to code on hobby projects while riding the bus to and from work. Programming is one thing that tablets have historically been bad at, especially Apple tablets. Once this 10" laptop finally dies, I worry about what I'll use next.
3. Many (most?) people use computing devices to consume media being it music, movies, or web pages (posted). The one outlier is text messaging and Facebook posts which both seem to be quite conducive to most common computing platforms
So am I the "out", or am I the "liar"?
The next big thing is H.265-- and I'm guessing there will be a few years of people complaining about battery life and high cpu-load until video chipsets incorporate dedicated circuitry.
Since 2007, the programmable GPU has become commonplace. Watch some smart guy implement some of the processing passes of VP9 and H.265 as shaders.
If you attach an external keyboard to a tablet it becomes a laptop with a touch input as a mouse. Thats a PC to me.
I agree, so long as the person who owns a device gets to control what computing is done on it. An Android or Windows 8 tablet is a personal computer; iPad and Surface RT, not so much. If you have to ask the OS publisher "mother may I" before installing anything, it's not really your personal computer.
Not necessarily. h4rr4r just happens to be an intelligent Slashdot user. Still, in a way, every logged-in user who writes intelligent comments that get moderated up to Score:5 works for Dice, as do the randomly selected moderators who perform this filtering.
My definition is more along the lines of "a device that provides data-processing tools to help the user solve original problems."
I agree with you. But the claim of the post-PC crowd is that outside of businesses, people who want to "solve original problems" form a tiny, commercially insignificant niche.
The rule of thumb is that a PC is a machine that can run the x86 build of DOS and/or Windows natively.
Consider a device that allows the person who owns it to control what computing is done on it without having to ask the operating system publisher "mother may I". Do you have a clear, concise term for such a device?
I have a 46" TV. I have no cable.
You can still use it with an antenna to receive over-the-air signals. And unlike your 24" monitor, a TV probably came with 1. composite inputs, 2. YPbPr analog component inputs, and 3. an audio output. Composite and YPbPr component inputs are useful for legacy SDTV picture sources, such as VHS decks and any video game console older than Xbox 360 S, PlayStation 3, or Wii U. An audio output is helpful because HDMI devices transmit audio in the blanking intervals of the video instead of sending it on a separate cable.
So basically the same function, yet one would be called a TV, the other a computer.
They're sold in different sections of the electronics store because the big manufacturers that make mass-market consumer products don't feel like confusing the user. If a monitor has no speakers but is used as a TV, a manufacturer would have to deal with expensive support calls asking why the user can't plug in his Nintendo and can't hear what the people on TV are saying.
I'm sure a lot of the reason PC sales have slowed is simply because there is no "killer app" for mainstream consumers that requires beefier hardware. For example, my parents are using an 8-year-old CPU (Athlon X2 4200+), and it would be very hard to justify upgrading for what they do. Unless you have a specific use in mind (like gaming or video editing/encoding), PCs have been "fast enough" for awhile.
In my experience most new PC purchases now are because of hardware failures or people borking their OS with malware/McAfee, and rather than risking $200 in the Geeksquad lottery of incompetence they just get a new PC.
Sure I get it. You think that your children deserve scraps.
My tablet costs more than my laptop or desktop, you insensitive clod.
Not everyone thinks like that.
Do you have small children? Because anything with a touch interface is much easier for them to use than keyboard and mouse.
Some kids are appreciative of decent kit and responsible enough to take care of it. If yours aren't, perhaps you should consider that a result of poor parenting.
Are you an idiot? Small children will not be lifting 30 lbs of desktop and 4 monitors. They are small children. I don't know about you but most parents I know don't make their children lift heavy things for no reason. Most parents also control how much TV and computer usage. They are 4 and 6 years old.
Intentionally buying crap you know to be inferior ultimately just subverts capitalism.
Again, my tablet costs more than my laptop and desktop, you insensitive clod.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Go see an eye doctor.
Also go check out tablets, some come in up to 30" size.
But sometimes, a machine is a laptop. SSD will help here, but it's a lot harder to find a new video card that fits an old laptop than to find one that fits an old desktop. And in a few cases I've seen, the real problem is that the battery no longer holds a substantial charge, and a replacement lithium ion battery pack is so expensive that one might as well buy a new laptop.
Whoosh
It's a 5 inch screen - what are you using to work on that 1 or 2 pixel flaw?
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
The PC will never die - someone somewhere needs to code the applications for the tablets
And if you have such a hot idea for a tablet application, you can afford the $2,000 that workstation makers will charge once the economies of scale of home and office PCs evaporate.
and then there are the PC gamers, who will never go away
Even if they don't go away, they can still become commercially insignificant. NES gamers haven't gone away, and there are still new NES games for sale, but I'd bet they're a drop in the bucket compared to even OUYA.
The only teenagers that buy PCs these days are the geeks
The opinion has been growing that everybody ought to take at least an introductory programming class in high school. This would probably involve buying some sort of home PC on which to do homework.
People can do their "consumption" media (browsing, videos, etc) on tablets or phones. Don't need a PC for that.
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Add to playlist to watch it later on a PC
There are plenty of things that won't play on a device running iOS or Android. This includes games on Newgrounds or Kongregate, YouTube videos with certain kinds of music, the entirety of Hulu Free, anything uploaded to Vimeo by a user who doesn't subscribe to Vimeo Plus, and Pandora past a few hours a month.
WTF? Why do I want a tablet interface on my 24" monitor?
Because ideally, it can be navigated without a mouse or keyboard at all. Consider someone who has plugged a couple Xbox 360 Controllers into his PC's front USB ports because he's about to play a PC game with a friend. I haven't tried it yet, but seeing as how the Windows 8 Start screen looks just like the third Xbox 360 Dashboard introduced in the fourth quarter of 2011, I'd be surprised if one couldn't use an Xbox 360 Controller to navigate the Start screen.
My ZAGGkeys FLEX keyboard works fine with my Nexus 7 tablet. I've used it to post to Slashdot (make sure to turn off "mobile version") and forums.nesdev.com, for example. Or if you have an Android device and a USB OTG cable, you can use any existing USB keyboard.
Why do you need a file manager if you are not administrating files?
A flat object store might have been fine in the click-wheel iPod days, when the device ran only the single audio player application that came preloaded. But on a "smart" device, there exist data types other than music, and some of these data types can be used by more than one application. The iOS model, as I understand it, is that a piece of data is "in" an application. That doesn't help if multiple applications are able to work on a particular piece of data stored on your device. For example, one may have both iWork and QuickOffice installed on a given device and want to share documents between the two. Or one may have both a word processor and Safari an HTML form with an <input type="file"> control can attach any stream of bytes that has a name and a MIME type to a form submission, but in iOS 1-5 it did nothing, and in iOS 6 it was limited to pictures and videos. Sometimes one may want to attach a document created in a word processing application, a spreadsheet created in a spreadsheet application, etc.
Minecraft just came out as an Xbox 360 disc
Which doesn't help if the console they happen to own is a Wii U or a PlayStation 3.
Now if they need to do a research report in a few years, they can use the desktop
I was programming in BASIC at 9 and in 6502 assembly language at 13. In a few years, introduction to programming is likely to be a required subject in high schools. Once your 6-year-old gets an itch to program in a couple years, what are you going to let him or her use?
I haven't actually used a 386, but I've developed games on a hand-me-down 80486SX computer with 8 MB of RAM and a 340 MB hard drive. In 1999, that was enough to run DJGPP (GCC for MS-DOS) and RHIDE (Turbo C++ clone IDE for DJGPP).
So you are using a device for purposes for which it was not intended and then you are complaining that it doesn't work the way you want it to work?
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
How about this: "People use PCs when they're on the job. When they get home, they use tablets."
So what do people use when they work from home? What do students use for homework?
Devices needed for media production are just less in demand.
But what this means is that people have less upward mobility. Before, somebody getting started in media production could use the media viewing device he already owned. Now, if all he has is a locked-down tablet, he has to go save up $500 for a PC, and that might be a bit much for a high school student.
There's no such thing as Netflix or Steam, those are just myths.
Both of those are already more effectively delivered to the average consumer through some sort of speciality appliance. Game consoles have been the primary focus of the likes of EA for a long time now.
The major consoles are good for major label games. But through which specialty appliance should the sort of indie games greenlit on Steam be delivered?
The use I envision for a computing device involves sharing data objects between applications. I believe a tool should do one thing and do it well, and a task should use whatever tools, plural, are best for the job. The fact that iOS is not intended for this sort of use is the problem, and it's why I've seen no reason for me to own an iPad. The problem comes when someone already owns an iPad and his needs outgrow the intention of iOS.
I'd agree with you for something like a Galaxy Note or Galaxy Tab that includes a real Wacom digitizer with a real pen. But the capacitive digitizer in most phones and tablets is much less precise with a comparatively large uncertainty caused by the irregular shape of the finger's contact surface, and I don't see how it beats even a mouse.
Consider a household where the kids can use the tablet as much as he wants, but the PC is daddy's, and either the kids aren't allowed on it or even if they are, it's for only a half hour at a time. So if one of the kids gets an idea to learn to program, how will he fulfill it?
Then your iPad is inferior to a Galaxy Note or Galaxy Tab that includes a built-in Wacom digitizer.
Once your 6-year-old gets an itch to program in a couple years, what are you going to let him or her use?
When/if they have a desire to touch a computer, we'll see. If/when they have a desire to play sports, we'll also see. I'm not pushing children into activities that they don't want to do.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
My 386 back in the day booted to an OS (albeit MS-DOS) in about ten seconds, had an excellent (IBM Model M) input device, and ran numerous productivity and games software pretty quickly and seldom ever crashed. And the only virus it got, I think, was that stupid prank that turned your screen upside down. I think I wouldn't mind an ARM tablet with similar qualifications :)
ran numerous productivity and games software pretty quickly and seldom ever crashed.
provided you could tweak your config.sys and autoexec.bat to free up the necessary memory.
My first (IBM Compatible) PC was a DOS compatibility card that came with the family's PowerMac 6100-- the mac was faster, but the PC had games. Before that, we had an Apple IIe/IIgs and a Mac IIsi.
But the ipad 2, running an ARM, is approximately as fast as a cray 2--a supercomputer contemporaneous with the 80386.
Kids these days! They should get off my lawn and visit a computer history museum...
Typing at 70+wpm on a real keyboard, beats using a screen keypad anyday.
Valid point - but one that only matters to users who can type reasonably fast. Many (most?) can't.