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Every Public School Student In LA Will Get an iPad In 2014

Jeremiah Cornelius writes "After signing a $30 million iPad deal with Apple in June, the Los Angeles School Board of Education has revealed the full extent of the program that will provide tablets to all students in the district. CiteWorld reports that the first phase of the program will see pupils receive 31,000 iPads this school year, rising to 640,000 Apple tablets by the end of 2014. Apple previously announced that the initiative would include 47 campuses and commence in the fall." Certain companies (not just Apple) stand to benefit from this kind of outlay.

393 comments

  1. That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Every student in LA Public schools gets a good education. Now that would be news.

    1. Re:That's not news by FunkyLich · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This. Stuffing technology in schools in this manner has no impact on education. Facts actually sugest that pencil&paper and and show exact solution with answer lead to better brains than smart expensive pads which react to touch and simplify radiobutton selection options.

    2. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Every student in LA Public schools gets a good education. Now that would be news.

      Nevermind good education. That's a very broad and ambitious goal - what about having ALL of them just being able to read at their grade level?

      If there a reading apps/games that'll make it fun, maybe this isn't such a bad idea.

    3. Re:That's not news by notanalien_justgreen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just think - with a class size of ~31, that's 1000 classes and teachers. If you spread that $30M over 1000 teachers you'd get about a $30k bump per teacher. Imagine recruiting teachers at $70k/year instead of $40k/year. I'm guessing you'd get a much better teacher, and thus a much better education for your kids. These constant stories of dumping technology onto kids never end with any positive results it's just sad. It's especially sad here because iPads are devices meant to consume, not to create. What a waste of taxpayer money.

    4. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation needed

    5. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I would think at adding more teachers would be a better option. Class size has one of the largest impacts on quality of education.

    6. Re:That's not news by murdocj · · Score: 2

      Every student in LA Public schools gets a good education. Now that would be news.

      Wish I had points to mod you up. Sounds like a pretty bizarre waste unless this is going to replace all the textbooks.

    7. Re:That's not news by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Silly goose. What teacher would pay my kickback?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that tablets and to some extent even laptops are not conducive to this kind of learning. While they have the potential as a store of information, by and large they are poor tools to transfer that information to the student. Without the proper framework, applications, they become no different to any other badly written textbook or crappy handouts, bar the price difference.

      All this provides is incentive to rob school kids, and for teachers to become lazier than they already are. Yes there are good teachers, but they are far and few. I can't comment on the quality of teachers in the US, but by all accounts, they have the same issues as everywhere else. Self entitled teachers who are lazy and apathetic, many who dislike the children and content, some who don't even know the content.

      The problem with the education system is not lack of technology, the problem is the lack of good teachers. Some may criticise the rote learning system in schools today, and there are alternatives, such as the Steiner, Montassori, and Socratic methods for education, but the rote system works for the majority of students, if and only if you have competent teachers. Without competent teachers, you cannot have an acceptable education for the mass of students.

    9. Re: That's not news by fredmosby · · Score: 1

      You can't use a pencil and paper to look something up on Wikipedia, and having an iPad doesn't prevent someone from using paper.

    10. Re:That's not news by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      No citation is needed for anyone who has actually spent more than a few minutes researching the effects of increased education spending. The real effects come from what the money is spent on, and it's not being spent in the right places.

    11. Re:That's not news by Alakhai · · Score: 2

      I believe following that they will purchase the new iteacher app from apple and replace the teachers all together.

    12. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For scale, LAUSD has a $6.2 billion budget per year.

    13. Re:That's not news by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Interesting

      FWIW I am close to a school district in California that is considering this iPad giveaway. I asked a person in charge why they are doing it (especially when they've been low on cash for a while), and the answer was that they couldn't just give the money to the teachers because of regulations that dictate how school money must be spent. So that's what they were doing.

      Doesn't make it any better, just explains why it happens.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    14. Re:That's not news by pspahn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I get the point, really I do, but I don't think simply raising their pay is the answer, not to mention the economics of your suggestion are way off target.

      LA Unified had over 27,000 teachers in 2012, quite a bit higher than the 1000 you suggest. Also, the average teacher pay in the district for 2012 was $66,000/year.

      I do agree that you will get some improvement in quality of teachers if you started paying them more, but I don't think it will be significant. Education majors already have some of the worst SAT scores. Simply offering to pay them more isn't going to improve that much as you still have the very real issue of people simply not wanting to be teachers because it is a terrible job. You do have people who actually love teaching, but those folks are incredibly rare, and rarer still are those who love teaching and are good at their job.

      You'd do more to improve the quality of public school education by making the job itself more attractive, not the pay. There are too many teachers burning out early in their careers which says a lot more about the job's environment than it does the compensation. I know that the main reason I quit working in education wasn't because the pay was shit, the main reason was because administrators often are too out of touch with the modern classroom that the students have no desire to learn, and the teacher ends up being nothing more than a baby sitter for 8 hours.

      Class rooms are broken. Fix them and you will find more student engagement, which will improve the teachers' morale, which will result in a better education. Now, a snazzy piece of tech in each kids' hands might be a move in the right direction, but it just screams of a band-aid fix when instead it should be introduced as part of a comprehensive overhaul of the entire system.

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    15. Re:That's not news by fafaforza · · Score: 1

      That's not how it would work. You'd have a budget of 70k per teacher, and you'd fill those roles, likely with the same quality of teacher.

      The biggest problem in large city schools is overpopulation. You'd be better of adding teachers, like the AC above said.

    16. Re:That's not news by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 1

      I think at the grade school level this could be useful if used properly. At the university level it can definitely be good if used effectively.

      I recently picked up a galaxy note 8 for taking notes on in my engineering classes. Last semester I had so many diagrams I had to write in class that it was hard to keep taking notes on a laptop and ended up with hundreds of pages of notes and homework work. Overall with that many pages it is too easy to lose things or find things.

      From my experiments with the note so far it looks like it can easily do the job. Handwriting recognition for equations, diagrams etc and the ability to export to a pdf file that can be shared over google drive. I have not tried the indexed searching part yet.

      This seems like the right way to do notes for school. You can even annotate pdf files easily which is useful. However using a tablet for school that doesn't have real pen input seems like mostly just a waste.

      --
      Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
    17. Re:That's not news by Delarth799 · · Score: 1

      Actually, the LA school district employed 45,473 teachers in the 2011 to 2012 school year. That $30 Million would equate to an average of $660 extra per teacher. Now the $30 million is for the first 31,000 only, and in the end they will spend approx. $620 million on all 640,000 ipads. Dividing that out would equate to an extra $13,000 they could give each teacher instead or use it to hire more teachers and rebuild, expand, or build new schools with.

    18. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely correct. The only way this could possibly be a good thing is for lowering costs via eTextbooks. And that will never happen because the textbook industry has schools being led around like a gimp on a leash.

    19. Re:That's not news by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've got no horse in the public education race, as my two kids go to a very exclusive private school with a teacher to student ratio of 1:1 and a total student body of two. That being said, I think the single best thing that public schools could do is give teachers the right to expel students from their classroom and schools to expel students from the school. The bar for this should be extremely low.

      Teachers would be happier. Students that wanted to learn would be able to, and parents would be forced to take a more active roll in raising their own children.

    20. Re:That's not news by Tough+Love · · Score: 0

      Stuffing technology in schools in this manner has no impact on education.

      What do you mean? Stuffing money into Apple's richly tailored pockets teaches the kids that nothing gets you ahead like greed and avarice.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    21. Re: That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, $30M/1000 = $30,000. Once.

      But you are talking about $30k per year forever.

      The two are not equal.

    22. Re:That's not news by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the $30 million is for the first 31,000 only

      Wow, $968 per tablet, what a great deal. Only four times more than retail for the higher specced Nexus 7. This in a city where kids are regularly sent home for "short days" to save salary.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    23. Re:That's not news by EvilSS · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Does that higher spec'ed Nexus 7 include all of the Pearson curriculum and electronic textbooks that the iPads are coming with?

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    24. Re:That's not news by rossz · · Score: 3, Informative

      The average teacher salary in the Los Angeles Unified School District is $63,000, plus excellent benefits and job security that makes it near impossible to get fired. And they don't work the entire year.

      --
      -- Will program for bandwidth
    25. Re:That's not news by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Every student in LA Public schools gets a good education. Now that would be news.

      Ain't gonna happen until the NEA/teachers unions and the federal Dept. of Ed. are gone. Until those are gone, the students actually learning will remain last on the priority list and the money will go straight down the rat-hole.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    26. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Another approach is simply to not require school attendance. The students will self-select and the bad apples will keep themselves out.

      I've actually seen this in action in another country and despite big social problems in the general populace, the schools are full of students who genuinely care about making a better life for themselves.

    27. Re:That's not news by sd4f · · Score: 0

      Those who can, do, those who can't, teach... Oscar Wilde.

    28. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if Pearson wants to be competitive, maybe they need to port it to Android.

    29. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      64k in LA for a degreed professional dealing with your little shit stain of a child is a deal? Really? And the not working a full year thing.. you've not heard of mandatory continuing ed for teachers? And you've never been around your kid's teacher when they're grading papers at 9pm?

    30. Re:That's not news by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      See that part about sending kids home regularly for "short days"? I would know, I had a kid in that system. That was the "good" side of town. Pathetic.

      This deal is just plain rich however you apologize for it.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    31. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dont forget insurance and service contracts.

    32. Re:That's not news by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Stuffing technology in schools in this manner has no impact on education.

      What do you mean? Stuffing money into Apple's richly tailored pockets teaches the kids that nothing gets you ahead like greed and avarice.

      And throwing a few full time employees at astromodding social sites works wonders too.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    33. Re:That's not news by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not to mention the only one that will be getting squat out of this long term will be Apple, the iPads themselves will end up stolen, on eBay, or in a junk drawer somewhere with a dead battery. I have seen it before with a local private school demanding all the students get laptops, the laptops ended up being used more for time wasting than schoolwork, teachers began banning them from class because the students were watching stupid cat videos instead of working, the whole thing turned out to be a waste to everyone but the ones selling the hardware.

      as a geek i naturally love tech but this fad of trying to fix education with tech? Just not gonna work. What you need is good teachers, involvement from the parents in the lives of the kids, and kids that actually want to be there and learn. None of that can come in a box, I don't care if it comes from Cupertino or not.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    34. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Higher salary does not mean higher quality teachers. Any good teacher goes into that profession because they care about educating children, not for the money. I think raising pay by that much would actually decrease the quality of teacher, because it would attract all types of greedy assholes who do only care about money.

    35. Re:That's not news by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      All of my Luddite friends thought I was crazy when I said many years ago that using computers for non computer related classroom education was a bad idea. I still feel that way but no one else (at least in my circles) seems to get it.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    36. Re:That's not news by notanalien_justgreen · · Score: 1

      The iPads only go to 31,000 students, so the $30M would go to the teachers of those 31,000 (i.e. roughly 1000 teachers).

      I think that by increasing the pay you would start to attract teachers who didn't necessarily major in education. You could start to "steal" teachers from industry - professionals who maybe want to do some good for the community, but can't afford to live on the current level of teacher pay. If the current pay is $66k, then raise it to $96k! I guarantee that at some price point you'll start to get some really smart people competing - simple capitalism.

      On the other hand I do agree with your argument that at some level you need to improve things in parallel to teacher compensation.

    37. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Pearson software hasn't been made yet. So what ever dev costs that are set aside for it has not been used.

    38. Re:That's not news by redJag · · Score: 2

      I've found the same to be true of software engineers. If you want to get the truly great engineers, the ones that love the field and not money, you really have to offer lower salaries.

      </sarcasm>

    39. Re:That's not news by JustOK · · Score: 1
      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    40. Re:That's not news by mbc2000 · · Score: 1

      Those who know, do. Those that understand, teach.

      - Aristotle

    41. Re:That's not news by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

      the $30 million is for the first 31,000 only

      Wow, $968 per tablet, what a great deal. Only four times more than retail for the higher specced Nexus 7. This in a city where kids are regularly sent home for "short days" to save salary.

      It's more than twice the price of an iPad 2. That's some deal the school district is getting.

    42. Re: That's not news by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      You mean $30M/year for as long as they go on with this foolish plan.

    43. Re:That's not news by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      How about all of them being able to do a lot more than read?

    44. Re:That's not news by jsepeta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      how important is it to teach 30 children to read, write, and perform mathematics? will that yield $70k worth of economic productivity throughout the child's life? well, possibly $500k-$1m worth of positive impact. that's probably worth $70k/year. it's more valuable than hitting your sports balls.

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    45. Re:That's not news by MindStalker · · Score: 2

      Its true there are a lot of regulations governing the pots of money, but the real reason is that if they spend an extra 5 million this year on raises, they are pretty much forced to spend 5 million every year forever more, and they are also setting the bar higher in for any other raises. So the iPads are way cheaper in the long run (though I agree, not a good investment)

    46. Re:That's not news by JackieBrown · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It is rare that teachers are grading papers until 9pm. As a parent, I can testify to the fact that my daughter rarely has any written home other than math.

      And 64k is a great deal compared to the bullshit 40k citation from the post he was replying to.

      64k for working 9 months a year with almost free benefits is a great deal.

    47. Re:That's not news by unixisc · · Score: 1

      One thing I wonder - would these iPads belong to all the students for ever, or transfer over to the next batch once they graduate high school? If it's the former, that means that every year, Apple will get a steady revenue stream from the new batch that's entering primary school. If it's the latter, it at least stays within the schools that paid for them

    48. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      July 24th Google announcement of the new Nexus 7 also included news that the Google Play store will now have an educational category that will include Pearson textbooks, so...maybe.

    49. Re:That's not news by sd4f · · Score: 1

      Maybe you could just point out where in Aristotle's work he says that.

      Since you can't, I think I might just say that In the times of Aristotle, a teacher was a mentor, they had few students, and didn't have a classroom; they were sought out by the wealthy or privileged because they had achieved great stature and notoriety. That is at odds with the learning institutions for the bulk of people today. Pupils are supplied a teacher, who isn't likely to have made any significant achievements in their area of study, they receive a fresh cohort each year and quite often they have to deal with kids who don't want to be there, more than themselves.

      Yes, to be able to teach properly, it certainly helps to understand, I for one have found that until I could explain it to someone else with ease, I didn't understand it, but, how many school teachers are like that with the content they attempt to teach?

      How many will tell their class to ditch the ipad due to the gimmick that it is, and revert to the tried and true methods of learning and study i.e. pen/pencil in hand?

      Just an anecdote, I remember when I finished the last of my exams for my compulsory education, there was a period after where school attendance was still required, when teachers were asked why we couldn't go to holidays sooner considering we had practically finished our formal education, he explained quite clearly, if they let us go, the crime rate goes up.

    50. Re: That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your poor kids are going to be woefully inept socially. I feel so bad for home schooled kids...

    51. Re:That's not news by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Lets see, say the spent half of that 31,000x$968/2= $15,004,000, no do you think that is enough to pay to have all the required text custom written and made freely accessible? Sounds like a rank stocking stuffer scam to me.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    52. Re: That's not news by khallow · · Score: 1

      Your poor kids are going to be woefully inept socially.

      Compared to the zoo that is public education? You really need to rethink that.

      The real world consists of a lot more people than a few kids in a particular, very narrow, age bracket. Where are those kids going to get experience with dealing with people who aren't like themselves? I learned that originally though my church (at the time, my family went to a Methodist Church), some music performance groups (orchestra and hand bells), and holding burger-flipping jobs.

      The problem is you have a bunch of carpet apes in their own little world. No interaction with grown ups outside of the teacher/student thing means a bunch of young adults poorly prepared socially for dealing with the rest of the world. Colleges don't help much especially with the weird indoctrination stuff that often goes on.

      I don't see home schooling being better here. But neither do I see it being worse.

    53. Re:That's not news by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Class size has one of the largest impacts on quality of education.

      Actually, no. There is a wide spread belief that class size improves education, but there is shockingly little evidence to support that belief. The biggest controlled study was the STAR Study done in Tennessee during the 1980s. It found the benefits to be minimal and uneven. Other studies have generally found even less benefit. Kids in early grades benefit most, with little to no benefit from smaller classes beyond grade 3. Most of the improvement goes to the underperformers. In some cases, the smarter kids actually do worse with small classes. This may be because they are forced to follow along with the class instead of reading ahead or learning on their own.

      Much of the benefit from "smaller classes" may actually be from "quieter classes". Many young children have difficulty filtering out distracting noise. Good sound proofing, and reduction in disruptive behavior, can often bring as much benefit as smaller classes. Interesting, improving student/teacher ratios by adding teaching assistants has been found to provide no benefit.

      If correctly targeted, smaller classes have their place, but they are far from a panacea.

    54. Re:That's not news by skegg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think simply raising their pay is the answer

      Funny, however, that paying CEO's many millions of dollars is justified because it allows companies to better attract 'talent' from other companies, other industries and other countries.

      And whenever someone here in Australia bitches about politicians getting $200,000 - $400,000 per annum, the standard response is "but these people would be making many times that in private industry ... we need to encourage them to work in public life". Then those people can fuck off to the private sector if they're not ready for public service.

      I do agree that you will get some improvement in quality of teachers if you started paying them more, but I don't think it will be significant.

      Let's find out.

    55. Re:That's not news by skegg · · Score: 1

      My first instinct is to agree with you.

      But then I think:
      What do we do with all the kids that have been expelled? Would they be roaming the streets during school hours? Shoplifting / mugging seniors? (Most of the expelled kids wouldn't be from the maths / chess clubs.)

      Do we conscript them? Lock 'em up in detention?

      Tough ... very tough. It'd take a government with an iron will to fix this problem.

    56. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just think - with a class size of ~31, that's 1000 classes and teachers. If you spread that $30M over 1000 teachers you'd get about a $30k bump per teacher. Imagine recruiting teachers at $70k/year instead of $40k/year.

      What on earth makes you think that teachers in California are recruited, compensated, or retained on merit?

    57. Re:That's not news by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1

      What do we do with all the kids that have been expelled? Would they be roaming the streets during school hours? Shoplifting / mugging seniors? (Most of the expelled kids wouldn't be from the maths / chess clubs.)

      Well, we could throw them all in prison. Maybe we should hire a few people to babysit them and maybe help them with a rudimentary education. And let them go home to their families at night.

      Oh, wait, I guess we already have that.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    58. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.

      Im not sure where they are getting their data but i fail to see why and how this is good news. Ive seen first-hand a lot of "IT in classrooms".

      In most cases... It is either un-used or broken as all hell. Have they learned nothing from OLPC?

    59. Re: That's not news by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      That is an example of a person who thinks everyone lives on a 1930's Kansas farm.

    60. Re:That's not news by nbauman · · Score: 1

      I think the single best thing that public schools could do is give teachers the right to expel students from their classroom and schools to expel students from the school. The bar for this should be extremely low.

      Teachers would be happier. Students that wanted to learn would be able to, and parents would be forced to take a more active roll in raising their own children.

      Doesn't sound like you've thought this out very far. What happens to the students you've expelled?

    61. Re:That's not news by nbauman · · Score: 1

      They have a situation something like that in the Favelas in Brazil. The police just kill them.

    62. Re:That's not news by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What do we do with all the kids that have been expelled? Would they be roaming the streets during school hours? Shoplifting / mugging seniors? (Most of the expelled kids wouldn't be from the maths / chess clubs.)

      At worst, they would be doing the same things they do when they are not in school now. Your question implies that schools are being used a prisons that every minor is sentenced to.

      Do we conscript them? Lock 'em up in detention?

      Maybe that would be best. We already lock them up. The only problem is that the kids who do want an education are locked up with them. If the kids are not going to learn anyway, segregating them out to other facilities that are not bothering to try to teach them isn't going to do any worse.

      Tough ... very tough. It'd take a government with an iron will to fix this problem.

      No doubt. Unfortunately, sometimes not making a decision IS making a decision, and the decision our governments (education is state level) have taken is clearly broken.

    63. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got a sister-in-law that works for LAUSD. She's been with the district for 11 years. She's consistently rated as excellent and is admired by both parents and colleagues. She narrowly missed being laid off because she's the most junior teacher at her school; an unexpected bounce in student enrollment just saved her neck. All teachers at 10 years of experience or less have been laid off due to budget cuts.

      Mind you, this is in a district where she (and all other district employees) have also had to take furlough days this year due to "not enough money", where all teachers under 11 years of experience have already been let go at her school (8 of them in total) and where her class sizes have moved from 20 ten years ago to 34 this last year. Anecdotal, yes, but her experience is not unique.

      The issue isn't necessarily paying teachers more. The issue is not laying off 1/4 of the teachers in the school and not increasing the class size by 70%, while at the same time throwing millions of dollars at a boondoggle like this. I guaran-damn-tee you that Apple isn't about to give LAUSD a sweet deal on replacing/repairing the significant percentage of iPads that end up broken, irrepairable, or stolen, and good luck with chasing down parents to fork over the money when their precious snowflake 12 year old sells his iPad for drugs and then they can't imagine him ever doing so because he's always such a 'good boy'.

      Use the money to get rid of furlough days. Use the money to reduce class sizes. But don't use the money to buy toys that aren't going to accomplish anything and that will create an ongoing liability going forward.

      LAUSD has been mismanaged for what seems like forever, and it's getting worse, not better. This is just the next chapter in a decades-long saga of bad decisions.

    64. Re:That's not news by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Their parents would have to find another school to enroll them in to meet the state's mandatory education laws. If the parent needs to start driving their kid across town, or into the next town, they might think twice about abdicating parenting to the state.

      If the student is such a problem that no school within 50 miles will take them, then you are likely dealing with a kid that is far enough out of control that forcing any school to take them would be abusive to every other kid that had to sit in a class with them.

      I'm not saying that some tweaking shouldn't be made to the idea, but the current system of requiring every school to take every kid no matter how disruptive, clearly doesn't work.

    65. Re:That's not news by nbauman · · Score: 1

      I think that by increasing the pay you would start to attract teachers who didn't necessarily major in education. You could start to "steal" teachers from industry - professionals who maybe want to do some good for the community, but can't afford to live on the current level of teacher pay. If the current pay is $66k, then raise it to $96k! I guarantee that at some price point you'll start to get some really smart people competing - simple capitalism.

      Simple capitalism has been oversold. The Catholic school system had some of the best teachers when it was mostly taught by nuns who took a vow of poverty. Medicine attracted a lot of doctors who just wanted to make a lot of money, and didn't care about their patients. A lot of doctors are giving treatments that are very profitable but actually harm patients, like spinal injections of steroids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Compounding_Center

      There's some merit to what you say, but it's not that simple.

      If professionals can't afford to live on the current level of teacher pay, then teachers can't either. If you want employees who do a good job, you have to pay them enough to live on.

      Teaching isn't that easy. First you have to understand the content, and then you have to understand the methods. High school science, for example, requires you to understand an enormous breadth of information. You may be an engineer, and you may know a lot about a narrow specialty, but a science teacher has to teach biology, chemistry, physics, earth science, the environment, etc. to a much greater depth than you get from reading Scientific American every month.

      Second, you have to know how to teach. The part that most people get wrong is that kids can learn different things at different stages of development, and you have to figure out what stage of development each kid is at and tailor your teaching to that kid. For example, most middle school kids are not capable of understanding atoms and molecules -- not because they're stupid, but because it's an abstract concept. When's the last time you saw a molecule? After all, the 17th century chemists were pretty smart, and they didn't understand molecules. It's not enough to know something; you have to recognize why a kid isn't understanding it, and figure out a way to make him understand it. If you studied science in college, you probably had some professors who understood their subject very well and didn't know how to teach.

      Somebody else here pointed out that the main complaint teachers have is not money but dealing with an administration that doesn't help them and gives them arbitrary rules and useless paperwork. Conversely, teachers like to work for schools where the principal understands what they're doing and helps them do it.

      It's probably good to have a few engineers or lawyers as part of the mix of teachers. But it takes more than a financial incentive. They would probably require a lot of support in the first year, and some of them would make it while others wouldn't.

    66. Re:That's not news by nbauman · · Score: 2

      And if Pearson wants to be competitive, maybe they need to port it to Android.

      I heard a lecture about that by an ebook developer. Publishers like Pearson make all their textbooks in a standard ebook format, which can be easily converted into the other formats (except Kindle).

    67. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you pay peanuts, you'll end up hiring monkeys. You're next objection is that teachers are already monkeys; I'll reject that argument without bothering to addressing it though.

    68. Re:That's not news by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Every so often I find a technical book that was written by the U.S. military during World War II. They published a lot of basic (and advanced) training books in electronics, etc., to turn farmers and backyard mechanics into electronics technicians, repair men, aircraft and ship operators, etc. (A lot of those books were reprinted by Dover and other publishers.)

      They did a damn good job. They had very good writers and editors who knew how to explain things. In those days patriotism meant that you would go to work for the government and do the best job you could to contribute to the war effort. Some of them could have made a lot of money in the war industry. I know people who made training movies during WWII. When they returned to civilian life they were some of the best in the industry.

      The government can do a good job.

    69. Re:That's not news by nbauman · · Score: 3, Informative

      If a student gets kicked out of one school, why would another school take him?

      (Actually we had a situation something like that before federal laws prohibited it. It was a disaster. Kids never got educated. Girls got pregnant and went on welfare. Boys joined gangs, got into crime and went to jail.)

    70. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It can. I doubt those add up to 600$.

    71. Re:That's not news by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well you can feel free to send them my previous post because i have watched it happen in a nice private school where they made all the students buy laptops for one year, thinking it was some educational "magic bullet".

      Instead it ended up exactly as I had predicted to some of the parents, kids ended up using them for goofing off and IMing each other instead of doing their work, scores went DOWN not up, and the teachers ended up making the students leave them under the desk or in a bookbag until class was over. And again just as i predicted the ONLY one that benefited was the company that sold them on the idea, THEY made out like bandits, the students? All they got was a new playtoy.

      At the end of the day there is NO magic bullet, believe me, as someone who has raised two wonderful boys this is something I know about. It takes long hours, parent participation, hard work, and good teachers and NONE of that comes in a shiny box from Cupertino. you mark my words if anybody bothers to even do a 1 year study they'll find that the grades went DOWN because the kids have one more distraction, their scores won't improve a single bit, the ONLY ones that gain from this are Apple and its shareholders.

      I do have to wonder though...how many that were praising it would have been equally supportive if it was a Windows 8 laptop?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    72. Re:That's not news by tirefire · · Score: 1

      If you spread that $30M over 1000 teachers you'd get about a $30k bump per teacher. Imagine recruiting teachers at $70k/year instead of $40k/year.

      So with a class size of 31, and a $30k salary bump for the teacher, that works out to spending an increased $967.74 per student per year.

      That totals $11,613 over a student's 12-year public school career. Imagine if schools just gave that $11,613 to students as a graduation present: "Congratulations on graduating. Here's eleven grand and change to help you get started with your life." Any group of four graduating friends, rich or poor, would be able to pool their graduation gifts to start a business partnership with $46k in capital and no loans whatsoever .

      I'm guessing most people's first reaction to that idea would be, "WHAT? JUST GIVE THE KIDS ALL THAT MONEY? They wouldn't spend it responsibly!"

      Well, if the kids don't know to handle a responsibility like money by age 18, maybe there are bigger problems in the school system besides a lack if iPads.

    73. Re:That's not news by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 1

      There is already a massive problem where fairly normal active boys get stuck in special education because boys are more likely to be disruptive than girls. If you look at special education numbers they tend to be at least 10:1 male:female, if not higher. This is already where problem kids go. Though most special education teachers realize only a handful of these kids actually have issues learning.

      The problem is taking care of special education kids costs at least 5 times what normal kids do. Which makes this an expensive option. The school I use to work for as their network admin eventually decided to keep special ed kids in the classrooms for the majority of the day, because they had so many that they would need an extra 'special ed' classroom at each grade level to handle them. The local school district liked to use that school as a dumping ground for every kid who had already been kicked out of other schools, which doesn't quite mesh with the schools goal of being a enhanced education better than what the local school district was offering.

      The problem became the kids even that school could not handle. It was nearly impossible to kick out the worst offenders because they had already been kicked out everywhere else. They had all been stuck in special education before we had even seen them as well. Eventually the staff psychologist would end up watching 5-10 kids every day, because they were simply to disruptive. Not a task she enjoyed.

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    74. Re:That's not news by Kilo+Kilo · · Score: 1

      I actually had a mechanical engineer as my high school physics teacher and she (yes she) was one of the smartest teachers there. Just a small correction to what you wrote; at the high school level, teachers have a specialty. We took earth science one year, then biology, then chemistry, then physics. In middle school though, they need to know a variety of subjects, but the material isn't as in depth.

      disclaimer: I'm a mechanical engineer. Mechanical engineering == best engineering.

    75. Re: That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If kids need to look up things on Wikipedia often enough to justify buying them iPads then the teacher isn't doing their job properly.

    76. Re:That's not news by DesertJazz · · Score: 0

      Is it really? I don't know about your school, but with all of the required training, paperwork, etc. I know quite a few teachers that work some ridiculous hours grading. Personally I spend about 14 hours a day at work in the fall, but I do get paid a bit extra based on the amount of extra time I put in. This 9 months stuff though simply isn't true anymore. The expectation is that teachers spend at least 4 of those weeks doing workshops and training opportunities that mostly don't involve pay to do so. If you're fortunate the district might pay for the training.

      Also, 64k is plain and simple not much I'm guessing cost of living wise there. Personally I started in another state at 31k with a Bachelor's Degree just nine years ago. My colleagues in other fields jumped in at similar degrees at 55k+. I had probably 60 more credit hours when I graduated than them too! At this point I'm paid about as well as I could expect at 50k where I'm at. That's with significant extra duty pay amounts built-in, and I feel bad for the teachers without that because they're not being paid well enough.

      Oh, and the fact you don't see the homework doesn't mean teachers have nothing to grade. Many of those teachers are teaching seven periods a day with the maximum number of students in each class. Figure roughly 210 students a day with a grade expected from many of them on every assignment. Even if you're just putting a checkmark and marking it in the computer at a rate of .5 minutes per assignment you're talking 105 minutes of work. You figure you get home at five or so, fix dinner, eat, you're up to seven. Let's say you have kids and have to take care of them, some of them don't start grading till nine, and don't finish till nearly eleven at that rate.

      Just because you don't see your childs' teachers working does not mean they do nothing. You probably get to leave your work at work. Must be nice?

    77. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People need to learn a simple concept in finance: the present value of money. If you only have money for a one time giveaway, give a smaller rise that over time would sum up to the sum plus interest earned of unused funds. Or, better yet, dump it in the underfunded pension funds. It's still going to the teachers. Anyway, small raises and proper financing or pension funds are not flashy moves you can point to, so I understand.

    78. Re:That's not news by nbauman · · Score: 1

      disclaimer: I'm a mechanical engineer. Mechanical engineering == best engineering.

      http://www.wastedtalent.ca/comic/cooking-steel

    79. Re: That's not news by Haawkeye · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I will be the first to admit I don't have any studies to back this up only 15 years of teaching. The biggest impact of smaller classes is the fact that I know and can respond to individuals better. If I have a class of 25 students I end up knowing them all much better than if I have 35. This also allows me to differentiate the instruction to fit each student. Now I teach grade 5 so this probably does not help much. However also being a father of 4 I want my kids to be inspired and cared for at school. This means the teachers must have a good relationship with each of the students. So while I don't have any studies or papers to back up my opinion I hope my years of experience do carry some weight. I would love ipads in my class but only if they could print!

    80. Re:That's not news by IndieVoter · · Score: 1

      No study I have read indicates that class size affects education. Quality of teaching does. Teachers Unions are the largest reason we have lousy schools.

    81. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Soylent Green?

    82. Re:That's not news by IndieVoter · · Score: 0

      "A lot of doctors are giving treatments that are very profitable but actually harm patients, like spinal injections of steroids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Compounding_Center [wikipedia.org]" Post when you have major back problems and can hardly walk. See how you feel when a competent Dr gives you a proper injection. Kind of like all the comments from rich Libs here who don't have kids...

    83. Re:That's not news by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they want useful software to run on the things, instead of mostly malware.

    84. Re: That's not news by Modern+Primate · · Score: 1

      I'm suspicious of the validity of these studies if their metric was standardized testing, which don't measure very much I'm interested in for my children. Also, how do you conclude that there's no benefit, and then go on to explain the real reason for those nonexistent benefits?

    85. Re: That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No peer learning ?

      No exposure to diversity ?

      Limited chance to perform in a university ?

      Home schooled kids fail as soon as the instructor changes to one that does not love them unconditionally.

    86. Re: That's not news by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      I'm suspicious of the validity of these studies if their metric was standardized testing

      Standardized tests don't measure everything. But if a kid does poorly on a standardized math test, that most likely means the kid didn't learn math. If a student can't read a paragraph and answer questions about it, it most likely means the student can't read well. Reducing class sizes is expensive, more so than almost any other educational intervention. It is not acceptable to assume that it "just works" in the absence of evidence.

      Educational reform has a long history of "faddism", where changes are made in the absence of evidence. "New math" and "Whole Word Learning" were inflicted on millions of kids before their folly was realized. But in those cases we could fix the problem by just replacing the textbooks. Smaller classrooms often involve structural changes to the school. That will be much harder to fix if it turns out to be yet another mistake.

      Also, how do you conclude that there's no benefit, and then go on to explain the real reason for those nonexistent benefits?

      Nobody said it doesn't work. Just that it doesn't work well enough or broadly enough to justify the cost. What we should be doing is identifying the situations, and the particular children that most benefit. This appears to be young (K-3) children with disadvantaged backgrounds. Currently this is the opposite of what we do. Small classrooms are mostly commonly used in high-income areas with brighter kids that get little benefit.

    87. Re: That's not news by Modern+Primate · · Score: 1

      "It is not acceptable to assume that it "just works" in the absence of evidence." No argument there, but where's the evidence that standardized tests are a valid metric for students, let alone entire schools? There are piles of studies that show increasing pressure results in poorer than normal performance. I don't see any reason to believe that high stakes testing is a valuable metric for anything; their use also relies on unconfirmed and dubious assumptions. As to sorting out where things are applicable and where they are not, again I can't argue, but... how do we separate when something is useful by itself and when it's only useful in conjunction with other factors? For example, what if smaller class sizes are only useful if you take advantage of the fact that they enable differentiated instruction? I'm reluctant to rely on a gut feeling of what "should" work, but how much better is a study that doesn't look at its data in context? (And of course, I don't know that it didn't, but these are some of the things I'd like to see addressed off the top of my head).

    88. Re: That's not news by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      There are piles of studies that show ...

      When someone claims that there are "piles of studies" without citing even one, my BS detector starts beeping.

    89. Re: That's not news by Modern+Primate · · Score: 1

      Fair point. Unfortunately I'm not able to properly hunt anything down right now, other than remembering Dan Pink references a few in his book Drive. But does it really seem like that much of a stretch to say that a single high pressure multiple choice test is a worse indicator of ability than a larger number of lower pressure tests? I'd also point out that your be detector doesn't seem to detect anything about the idea that standardized tests are a good metric despite the fact that you haven't cited anything either. Perhaps you mistakenly bought a mislabeled conflicts-with-by-bias detector?

    90. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anything in the rules about giving the money back to the tax payer?

    91. Re:That's not news by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      So, just like it is now but the students that didn't get expelled could get an education.

    92. Re:That's not news by Dextrously · · Score: 1

      Here is my take on your plan:

      I would say that teachers may send students to the school counselors for a recommendation for expulsion. If several counselors (Two or three?) see this student and agree that the student should be expelled, they would write a signed recommendation to the school principal. The principal could then recommend that the parents send their child elsewhere. Should the parent fail to heed their recommendation, and the child acts out again, the teacher may expel the student outright.

      However, should the counselors not agree, they may instead write up a plan for getting the student back on track, with several goals noted. Should the child fail to meet all of these goals, an in-school suspension period should be mandated, in which case the child will be kept in solitude for the period of the school day and given a book and assignments to be completed. During this time, they should not be allowed to attend lunch at the same time as the other students, and they should be allowed to have free-time at the same time as other students.

      Upon completion of in-school suspension, they should be allowed to rejoin their class, and should they be sent to in-school suspension twice more, they will be automatically recommended for expulsion, and the principle would take over from there.

      Expelling a student should not be easy, and the school should be obligated to perform due diligence before it is allowed. The reason for this is because it can severely and negatively impact the child, and as nbauman stated, those negative repercussions will consequently negatively impact our communities and country as a whole.

    93. Re:That's not news by Dextrously · · Score: 1

      Actually, I just had another thought about this as well. Possibly after the second in-school suspension, the student should be moved to another classroom with a different teach to see if the issue persists. If so, then follow the other remaining steps towards expulsion.

      The problem I am trying to avert is that sometimes a specific teacher and student just don't get along. That isn't really either of their faults, but the issue should be tested first before being dismissed.

    94. Re:That's not news by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Principals and teachers know how to deal with difficult students. Some high school teachers say that their first job is to deal with difficult students. If you're an educator, you know how to deal with these things.

      A lot of times, when they find out more about the kid, it's obvious why he's having so much trouble. They often have severe family problems, including poverty. When educators study the factors that are associated with poor school performance, one thing stands out -- low family income. A lot of this is simply poverty. Both the Republicans and Democrats claimed at some time that they wanted to eliminate poverty. Instead, they both eliminated the safety net. You want people to act civilized -- pay them enough to live a civilized life.

      Suppose somebody told you that you had to continue to do your job, and maintain the same standards -- at a minimum wage income of $250 a week. Could you do it?

    95. Re:That's not news by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      Class rooms are broken. Fix them and you will find more student engagement, which will improve the teachers' morale, which will result in a better education.

      I'm curious, as a former teacher, what would be your top 5 initiatives which would fix broken classrooms?

      I'm not asking to put you on the spot, but rather to get a better understanding of what you think we should be doing.

      As stated by another poster - I currently have no horse in this race, my partner and I are unable to have children, though I have nephews who will pass through the school system, neither are we teachers or Californian. But I am interested in what will result in a better educated population in the long run.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    96. Re:That's not news by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      This is the kind of thing I was thinking. The details could be tweaked, but a teacher should absolutely be able to remove a disruptive student on the classroom level. If the student is disruptive on a school level, then the student needs to be removed from the school. The 'in school suspension' is a nice touch as it still solves the problem of removing disruptive students from the classroom in the short run while creating enough friction in the process of expulsion to keep it from being a first level of discipline.

      At this point, we are warehousing huge numbers of kids anyways. Putting them in solitary isn't any worse educationally than what is happening now.

    97. Re:That's not news by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      If the student is such a problem that no school within 50 miles will take them

      Which may work in areas with high density urban populations, but less so in rural areas.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    98. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This.

    99. Re:That's not news by multimed · · Score: 1

      Classes of 35 kids with truly excellent teachers will outperform classes of 10 with poor teachers in any metric one could choose.

      All things being equal, as you say, for younger kids, smaller classes definitely have benefits & that diminishes as they get older. But all things are never equal. Focusing on getting, training and retaining excellent teachers is going to be a successful strategy across the board.

      --
      Vote Quimby.
    100. Re: That's not news by multimed · · Score: 2

      My kids go to a public school in a relatively small Wisconsin town (about 5,000). Biggest surprise to me in how their education is different than mine is the degree of customization for each individual student. Class sizes have generally been 25-30, and the curriculum is set up to allow tremendous flexibility especially in math & reading. When I was in school I remember getting bored because things tended to go at the pace of the slowest kids. For my kids, they're constantly challenged & each proceeds at their own pace with customized math, reading and spelling work. Again, not a private school, it's a public school in a relatively rural area - not particularly affluent or well educated. It was historically a farming community & there's still that sort of influence, so I think a sort of work ethic, getting the most out of what you have & maybe better than average willingness to look at things from a long-term point of view probably play a part.

      --
      Vote Quimby.
    101. Re: That's not news by philip.paradis · · Score: 1

      But does it really seem like that much of a stretch to say that a single high pressure multiple choice test is a worse indicator of ability than a larger number of lower pressure tests?

      A larger number of lower pressure tests, as you refer to them, occur throughout the school year as students progress through studies on various topics.

      I believe you are supporting a fad that has outlived any semblance of credibility, and serves only as a distraction from legitimate issues faced by educators. Then again, I'm 32 years old, so perhaps I'm too old to "get it." I will note that standardized testing was a key aspect of my primary schooling, and I distinctly recall being able to roughly predict how fellow students would perform on such tests by simply applying what I knew about their actual level of knowledge on any given subject. Yes, I was a "strange kid" who spent far more time in school libraries and public libraries than in classrooms, but the bulk of my classroom time was spent tutoring other students.

      You are advised to research alternate sources (and cite them in the future) for further data.

      --
      Write failed: Broken pipe
    102. Re:That's not news by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      And still at 1/4 the cost of the iPad deal? That's my point, not that it can't. Personally I don't really care what they use, but trying to compare oranges to a five course meal is a bit disingenuous.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    103. Re:That's not news by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      I'll give you all that.

      Pay the teachers more but the we should quick hearing the bullshit that teaching is a hire calling or anymore honorable than any other paying job.

      It's more and more clear that teaching is not a calling and just another job.

    104. Re:That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think simply raising their pay is the answer

      Funny, however, that paying CEO's many millions of dollars is justified because it allows companies to better attract 'talent' from other companies, other industries and other countries.

      And whenever someone here in Australia bitches about politicians getting $200,000 - $400,000 per annum, the standard response is "but these people would be making many times that in private industry ... we need to encourage them to work in public life". Then those people can fuck off to the private sector if they're not ready for public service.

      I do agree that you will get some improvement in quality of teachers if you started paying them more, but I don't think it will be significant.

      Let's find out.

      we did find out look at Chicago where the average salary for teachers is 74k and they have terrible dropout rates...compare to Dallas and you have an average teacher salary of 52k and they have very good dropout rates...so we HAVE found out...a higher salary does NOT increase teaching ability...merit based pay scale WOULD increase teaching ability...it would weed out the terrible teachers and the teachers that actually take their job seriously would reap the rewards for being a good teacher instead of a glorified baby sitter

    105. Re:That's not news by Xest · · Score: 1

      "Funny, however, that paying CEO's many millions of dollars is justified because it allows companies to better attract 'talent' from other companies, other industries and other countries."

      No, that's stupid too.

      "And whenever someone here in Australia bitches about politicians getting $200,000 - $400,000 per annum, the standard response is "but these people would be making many times that in private industry ... we need to encourage them to work in public life". Then those people can fuck off to the private sector if they're not ready for public service."

      Yep, that's stupid also.

      "Let's find out."

      No, let's not throw even more money after idiocy. Let's reduce politicians and CEO's wages.

      I had the best thought ever the other day, why not tie politicians wages directly to the national average wage so that the only way politicians can become more wealthy is by increasing the wealth of the average citizen.

      Here in the UK the problem with teachers is in fact that the job is too cushy relative to required levels of performance and skills. You can, with a bottom of the pile barely scraped a pass 3rd class degree earn £3k above the national average wage with fuck all real experience, and get 3 times the national average annual leave and a far better than average pension to boot as well as shorter average working hours. As such the profession attracts the most lazy inept graduates because they can get the job and enjoy a plethora of perks and have one of the best job securities to boot. In fact, in about 15 - 20 years no teacher has been struck off for incompetence despite the fact that the average across all industries is about 3% firing rate for incompetence. That means once you have the job you can't be gotten rid of.

      Maybe the US and Australia has the same problems where the real issue is a desperate need for increased accountability starting from a requirement for much higher grades to weed out the lazy and more thorough performance reviews including the possibility of getting fired and in extreme cases even barred from teaching if you don't perform. Money just isn't the answer and the only effect of "trying it" would be incompetent teachers getting even more perks relative to their lack of performance. We shouldn't ever reward failure in this way, it's stupid.

    106. Re: That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (note: not the same AC as GP)

      Compared to the zoo that is public education?

      If we are actually comparing, then let's do it fairly, as in hold all else equal. As in, if the public school child somehow does not have exposure to the church, or bands, or a burger flipping job, etc and remains in his "own little world" , then the same should be applied for the home schooled child

      So instead of being in "a little world" of a bunch of carpet apes, the home schooled child would be in his own little world, consisting of only himself and his parents.

      Both kids would have little interaction with adults (one only has experiences with a teacher, the other only has experiences with mom and dad), but for better or worse the public school kid would have higher quantity and variety of social experiences dealing with his fellow carpet apes.

      I would assert that social interaction with carpet apes is a more common and needed skill than social interaction with parents (or teachers). I mean, Congress sure looks like it's being run by a bunch of apes (beat)

    107. Re:That's not news by ai4px · · Score: 1
      I like how you think, but the myth of paying more to get better teachers is just that... a myth. (note my derisive circular logic!) Honestly, teachers don't go into the profession for the money. They are typically people who would like to help or teach kids. Once in the system, they find that they can't maintain discipline in the classrooms and spend inordinate amounts of time dealing with problem kids that the administration won't deal with. The administration is incentivized to keep all kids in school by the method the schools are funded.

      The more ambitious teachers end up migrating to schools in better neighborhoods leaving the dregs of teachers with the dregs of students. The solution is NOT more money for teachers... it is getting rid of the students who have no business in a classroom to start with.

      I was married to a teacher and have seen the frustrations.

    108. Re:That's not news by ai4px · · Score: 1

      Right on the money! Get the kids which are impediments to the rest of the kids learning out of the way. Won't happen though as long as schools are funded by the number of students in attendance.... and those students don't have any skin the game. My ex is a high school teacher and she can't get rid of the bad apples.

    109. Re:That's not news by ai4px · · Score: 1

      It might surprise you to know what efforts the parent of a suspended kid will go to in order to get their kid back in school. They don't want their (troublemaking) kid at home. Teachers who try to reach out to these parents when asking for help making sure homework is done are ignored and the parent(s) can't be found... until the kids is suspended. Then they come screaming.

    110. Re:That's not news by ai4px · · Score: 1

      You are very idealistic. I don't mean to sound like I'm speaking down to you, but you really don't understand. Some parents don't give a rat's behind about their children. Kindergarten kids who get themselves up to go to school because there is no food at home. Kids that get TWO meals a day... school lunch and school breakfast. This, despite their parents being given EBT cards for food. Ohh and let's not forget our wonderful earned income credit system. Poor people with 3 kids get a check for $9600 in the spring of each year. In my town, Sumter SC, a kid died of malnutrition despite the family getting food stamps and earned income credit. I had occasion to speak to a guy who worked at the same place as the dad. They had no idea how he'd afforded to get the new 22" rims for his car and were shocked to find that it was him in the newspaper with a dead little girl. Child starves to death That safety net wouldn't work anyway!

    111. Re:That's not news by darthium · · Score: 2

      Class size has one of the largest impacts on quality of education.

      Actually, no. There is a wide spread belief that class size improves education, but there is shockingly little evidence to support that belief. The biggest controlled study was the STAR Study done in Tennessee during the 1980s. It found the benefits to be minimal and uneven. Other studies have generally found even less benefit. Kids in early grades benefit most, with little to no benefit from smaller classes beyond grade 3. Most of the improvement goes to the underperformers. In some cases, the smarter kids actually do worse with small classes. This may be because they are forced to follow along with the class instead of reading ahead or learning on their own.

      Much of the benefit from "smaller classes" may actually be from "quieter classes". Many young children have difficulty filtering out distracting noise. Good sound proofing, and reduction in disruptive behavior, can often bring as much benefit as smaller classes. Interesting, improving student/teacher ratios by adding teaching assistants has been found to provide no benefit.

      If correctly targeted, smaller classes have their place, but they are far from a panacea.

      .

      Smaller classes with careless teachers are a waste, for sure. But I suspect that the lack of results regarding smaller classes is because lack of teacher's competence and willingness..

      In other cases, the effort goes into the bottom students (the slogan "no child left behind" meaning really "no bright child is allowed to advance at a better pace than the mediocres", leaving no impact in the gifted and brightests.

      However, no matter how many studies (fail to find such studies with clear results) supposedly exist, the issue is plain common sense, in a smaller class, the teacher has more time to nurture students in a customized way..

      If you get smaller classes, you have to implement policies to ensure that the teacher will use such time advantage, to really improve customized teaching, and not focusing only in the ones with problems, but also in the brilliant students.

    112. Re:That's not news by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Your question implies that schools are being used a prisons that every minor is sentenced to.

      I don't think you'll find any student, even out of the good ones, that would disagree with that is what they are.

    113. Re: That's not news by Modern+Primate · · Score: 1

      You're running into the problem there that exists with all metrics. Metrics affect what they measure when the subject, or those influencing the subject, has the opportunity to respond on the basis of the result. If you grade based on the amount of time spent doing a task, even those who can do it quickly will slow down for a better grade. Measure kids in such a way that a typo on 2+2 gets averaged in with a correct answer on an algebra problem, and you end up with a very strange result. (Test prep companies advise kids to spendmore time on the easy pproblems and ignore the deeper, more difficult ones. Take a moment to consider the implications of that.) Knowledge is the most rudimentary level of learning; the ability to apply it is what we need more of. So as you observed your teachers teaching to the test and you made your assessment on that basis, you didn't question whether anything was being measured that was of value. I have never seen anything that shows me it's possible to test deeper levels of knowledge with a standardized test. I'd be delighted to be wrong about this, so by all means, cite something that supports that claim. You're now the second person to complain about me not citing anything without citing anything yourself. If this exists, I need to see it.

    114. Re: That's not news by khallow · · Score: 1

      I would assert that social interaction with carpet apes is a more common and needed skill than social interaction with parents (or teachers). I mean, Congress sure looks like it's being run by a bunch of apes (beat)

      All I can say is that when people enter college or the workforce, different environments and not just socially, they all tend to have that "deer in the headlights" look. I think people place too much emphasis on developing social skills in a public school environment. And when that seems to be the main advantage over home schooling, then one has to consider that maybe home schooling combined with some sort of social environment might be better than public schooling under the current circumstances.

    115. Re: That's not news by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Both kids would have little interaction with adults (one only has experiences with a teacher, the other only has experiences with mom and dad)

      Not all of us live on a Kansas farm in 1920.

    116. Re:That's not news by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      No, I am exactly the opposite of idealistic. I am pragmatic. I fully understand that some parents don't give a rat's behind about their children. I am also no so idealistic to think that being stuffed into the same classroom is going to save most of those children, turning them into model citizens. The fact is, the majority of those kids are actively being told that school is bad. Most of them are going to be the problem kids in the school that holds back the kids that want to learn. Is it crappy that these kids have been tought by their parents that learning is bad, and that creating a disturbance is good? Of course it is. Is pretending like allowing diruptive kids to ruin well behaved kids education a good idea? Of course not. YOU are very idealistic, and you are not in the minority with that. No one wants to say that 'that kid is doomed' about an 8 year old, but for a lot of these kids, they is the reality of their life.

      [Off Topic] Your point also shows why our child labor laws are bad. When one of those kids you speak of is somewhere between the ages of 13 and 17, they really are often better off being on their own. What does a 15 year old girl do to make money when it is illegal for anyone to hire her and living with her parents really is the worst thing she can do? What does a 15 year old boy do? [/Off Topic]

    117. Re: That's not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All I can say is that when people enter college or the workforce, different environments and not just socially, they all tend to have that "deer in the headlights" look.

      That has nothing to do with public schools or social skills. That's simply because non-social skills isn't something most people can do or learn to do. Think of it this way: most people have the technical skills to use computers, that's not enough to hold a tech job (or even a non-tech job... sometimes end users deserve that silent "L" in front of them)

      Emphasizing hard skills over soft doesn't lead to better results. Asian education systems do just that, yet that doesn't mean more of them end up being engineers or doctors or freed from "deer in headlights" syndrome. Most of them still aren't good enough to become a professional (or even hold a regular job... there are quite a few entries on wiki regarding the phenomenon of young people not turning out so well despite Asian cultures emphasizing hard skills over soft ones)

      Amongst those who do become professionals, they aren't necessarily better than their Western counterparts. For example, despite liberals complaining how other countries have better socialized education and healthcare than the US, many people from those socialized countries go to the US for their higher education and advanced medical treatments instead of taking the socialized option back at home.

      I think people place too much emphasis on developing social skills in a public school environment.

      I don't think that's true, since as you said public schools are basically a zoo. The kids are merely thrown in there and they have to survive on their own somehow. The kids separate themselves into cliques (your nerds and your jocks) with minimal guidance or emphasis by the system, teachers or parents.

      And when that seems to be the main advantage over home schooling, then one has to consider that maybe home schooling combined with some sort of social environment might be better than public schooling under the current circumstances.

      No, the lesson here is that no formal schooling (home or public or otherwise) will address the "deer in headlights" problem. You need the school of hard knocks (which is what you said before: interacting with church, bands, get a job, stuff that's outside of formal schooling)

      As for formal schooling (I'm not saying kids shouldn't get some sort of formal schooling), it really doesn't matter. Whether your kid will succeed or not is ultimately up to the kid. A genius will be a genius even if he had to make do with public school. An idiot will be an idiot even if he gets the best private tutors money can buy in a home school setting.

  2. so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by gl4ss · · Score: 1

    what are they paying?

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    1. Re:so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TFA, in big red letters:

      "The district's $30 million will only cover the first 31,000 iPads"

      you do the math..

    2. Re:so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      By that math they could have gone to the Apple Store online and saved about 15 million or so dollars.

    3. Re:so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by Dahamma · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From the article, it looks like that also includes all of the necessary apps and textbook/workbook resources ("Pearson common core system of courses").

      Though at almost $1000 per student, that's still $500 allotted to a few apps and digital textbook licensing per student. If mega-mass-produced digital textbooks are costing $500 per *grade school* student no wonder the public school systems have no money...

    4. Re:so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by cervesaebraciator · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Paper books can be used over the course of several years with several classes of students. I wonder if the licenses in this case will only apply to a single student.

    5. Re:so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      Paper books can be used over the course of several years with several classes of students. I wonder if the licenses in this case will only apply to a single student.

      Yes

    6. Re:so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by cervesaebraciator · · Score: 2

      Well then. Now we see the textbook publisher's response to SCOTUS upholding the first-sale doctrine. If a Thai student can import to the U.S. cheaper copies of the same book by the same publisher, that's all well and good. The textbook makers will just stop making paper textbooks.

    7. Re:so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by Dahamma · · Score: 2

      Question is - is this per student *per year* or per student per career? It sounds like the latter... Personally I think locking the educational system into specific software contract is even worse than locking them into a bad textbook purchase contract, but (as stated by someone else in this discussion) - $650 goes towards the iPad and apps, and the rest to support/maintenance, new administrative payroll, insurance, etc (i.e. overhead).

      So that's about $200 per student for the course material. Not as bad as I originally thought on pure price alone given that's comparable to the cost of a year of textbooks for a grade school student and a physical textbook should last ~10 years.

      And that first sale case - while being generally applicable - was more relevant for college textbooks where students have to purchase their own - in CA the schools purchase and own the books, so as you said they would expect to re-use the same book many times.

      Then again the article was still sketchy on these details... if I cared more about it I'd probably research the rest, but fortunately I don't live in LA. (And maybe ironically I live about 5 miles from Apple's HQ in the Cupertino school district, which is both one of the best in the country and currently not stupid enough to jump so recklessly into this crazy experiment...)

    8. Re:so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      RMS is looking like he's going to be proven right again. Read an old essay of his:
      http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

    9. Re:so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by chithanh · · Score: 1

      If mega-mass-produced digital textbooks are costing $500 per *grade school* student no wonder the public school systems have no money...

      School textbook contents should be available under open licenses.

      Poland already does this with their digital school initiative, providing CC licensed textbooks in a pilot project. Publishers are understandably up in arms against this.

    10. Re:so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I always loved those atlases with Rhodesia and Belgian Congo in them...

    11. Re:so... 900 bucks for one or fifty? by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      I completely agree. If we leave textbook creation up to for-profit companies they can (and probably should be allowed to) charge whatever they want. So, given that grade school education is almost completely a monopsony (ie. 1 buyer), and the US educational system is massive, why on earth aren't there open-licensed textbooks covering every topic imaginable?

      Well - I can give you one reason already: because the states, local districts, etc school boards are mostly made up of politicians and non-educators who think that THEY should be dictating the content in the books rather than the educators who know what they are doing. Not only does this result in more expensive "custom" books for each state, but it allows selective censorship of the content as well. Sigh...

  3. What happens when this fails? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Will anybody question the lobbying that went into this deal, or will they just attack the public school system for waste?

    1. Re:What happens when this fails? by alen · · Score: 2

      how is this different than buying all the books that a current student uses?

      NYC school system licenses some online content that can be accessed via computer or ipad app for kids to catch up on skills at home. my son does a few units every day so that he doesn't forget what he learned last year. LA is just making sure every kid has access to it

    2. Re:What happens when this fails? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      How much can you get for school books on ebay?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re:What happens when this fails? by alen · · Score: 1

      when i was in school if you don't give back your books you don't go to the next grade and don't graduate. until you pay for them.

    4. Re:What happens when this fails? by Alphadecay27 · · Score: 1

      how is this different than buying all the books that a current student uses?

      It is an additional cost of over $900 which could have covered the cost of a laptop. Tablets are great for consuming content, not so much for creating.

    5. Re:What happens when this fails? by Dahamma · · Score: 2

      how is this different than buying all the books that a current student uses?

      One thing that came to mind immediately to me: no one really wants to steal a grade school textbook. But they would be happy to take an iPad that happens to have grade school textbook apps.

      It was recently announced that over 50% of *all* crime reported in NY, SF, and LA involved a smartphone theft/robbery. If they don't have a 100% effective way of bricking these devices when they go missing there's going to be a crime epidemic in LA.

      At first I was thinking "well, just don't let them take them home" - which is still an awful idea when the iPad *replaces* the textbooks (yay, no more homework!) But that probably wouldn't matter, who wants to go steal an iPad from each kid when they can break into any random elementary school and steal hundreds of them at once...

    6. Re:What happens when this fails? by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      Waste is waste, completely independent of who got taken to a nice meal at three star. Lobbyists are not the problem; politicians and public servants who agree to their agendas when said agendas are against those of their broader constituencies are.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    7. Re:What happens when this fails? by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 5, Insightful

      books are cheap to repair.

    8. Re:What happens when this fails? by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      Also... why is NYC paying for the followup content? There are plenty of free resources that are acceptable and free for that. Khan Academy is where I send my kids for over the summer and reinforcement work.

    9. Re: What happens when this fails? by alen · · Score: 1

      The stuff they pay for is better than khan. And khan is lite on first grade level math

    10. Re:What happens when this fails? by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      how is this different than buying all the books that a current student uses?

      Can you sell a blank ebook to Richard Feynman?

    11. Re:What happens when this fails? by michaelwigle · · Score: 1

      It's still done that way in my neighborhood. But the schools found a solution. They stopped using textbooks. You think I kid. Sadly, it's true. The administration just tells the teachers to find worksheets online and print them off. The kids just ignore the "Do not make copies" at the bottom of the pages of their handouts. :P

    12. Re:What happens when this fails? by apcullen · · Score: 2

      When this fails to produce results, they will come back and say, the reason why it failed is because we didn't have enough money to really do it right. What we actually need is more, and then we can succeed.

    13. Re:What happens when this fails? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      If they don't have a 100% effective way of bricking these devices when they go missing there's going to be a crime epidemic in LA.

      There will be a crime epidemic even if they have a 100% effective way of bricking the devices. It would take a while for robbers to get the message.

    14. Re:What happens when this fails? by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Possibly... so they should also implement (and advertise heavily) that the device has an always-on taper-proof GPS (via backup battery). It won't take long for criminals to decide it's not worth stealing a device that will more often than not tell police exactly where their loot is at all times...

      And in fact given the crime statistics of smartphones it's practically criminal in itself that these features haven't already been implemented in all GPS-capable smartphones already (yes, I know about "Find My iPhone", etc - they don't work if you turn the phone off or disable the network...)

    15. Re: What happens when this fails? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, because ignoring the person offering the bribe is sure to work.

      Believe it or not, both can be punished, but you'd rather focus your ire in the one direction and blind yourself to dealing with both.

      Or do you think blinding yourself culture of corruption won't have consequences.

      Krusty may be a shameful from, but so are the toy companies willing to sell substandard products.

    16. Re:What happens when this fails? by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      And if all the articles that pop up in the press are anything to go by, knowing where your phone is won't make it any easier to get it back. The police will still say it's insufficient evidence to commit resources to follow up on a minor theft.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
  4. Pawn shop boom predicted... by AmazingRuss · · Score: 4, Funny

    .... Dec 2014.

    1. Re:Pawn shop boom predicted... by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      and narcotics boom, followed by junvie detention center boom

    2. Re:Pawn shop boom predicted... by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 1

      Are you saying: Petty street crime targetting kids boom predicted? Or are you saying the kids themselves will just pawn it?

    3. Re:Pawn shop boom predicted... by icebike · · Score: 2

      c: All of the above

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      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:Pawn shop boom predicted... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my school district, Fairfield-Suisun Unified in California, they bought enough iPads to supply one or two classes at the "alternative" (cough retrobate cough) high school. They stored them in the class room. They got stolen. They replaced them. This time some schmuck of a teach had to drive them EVERY night to the district office. That got tiring and the teacher missed a few of these nightly trips, leaving them locked up in the classroom. They got stolen. Again. They replaced them, again. They beefed up security and I don't know what else. But, they were all stolen a third time! I don't know if they've learned their lesson. I don't think the robbers would have stolen dead tree textbooks.

    5. Re:Pawn shop boom predicted... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I say the parents.

  5. Nope not at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is most certainly not a gigantic waste of money that will produce no positive results. Next time we should do an ipad and a pony.

  6. Cost by jours · · Score: 1, Insightful

    That's almost $1,000 each...? No wonder public schools are in trouble.

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    1. Re:Cost by oh2 · · Score: 1

      Maybe it includes some infrastructure money as well. Network infrastructure for 640,000 iPads wont come cheap, will it ? Deploying wireless access points in schools is a pain as no school looks like the other and the (generally) concrete construction doesnt help. I know we had some issues with wildly varying costs in our small school district, and that was for a smallish network, not one capable of several hundred simultaneous connections per school.

      --

      Now the world has gone to bed, Darkness won't engulf my head, I can see by infra-red, How I hate the night.

  7. 30000000/640000=46875 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can't the students just buy an iPad if they want one? It would be cheaper and they could choose from a variety of different manufacturers. Oh...

    1. Re:30000000/640000=46875 by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Not all can afford them even at the lower retail price, so no.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:30000000/640000=46875 by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      It would have made more sense (And been way less expensive) to have a bond measure that was meant to subsidize the purchase of the iPads for those families who could not afford to purchase them.

    3. Re:30000000/640000=46875 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then they're subsidizing ipads the school district wont own. They kids don't get to keep the ipads under this current plan, which by the way is positively retarded anyway.

    4. Re:30000000/640000=46875 by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Can't you buy a decimal point? It's 46.875.

  8. $30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by ChaseTec · · Score: 2

    Holy crap that is expensive. $968 per iPad. Considering how good a Nexus 7 is I can't understand the thinking here.

    --
    My Hello World is 512 bytes. But it's also a valid Fat12 boot sector, Fat12 file reader, and Pmode routine.
    1. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Seumas · · Score: 1

      They're always looking for the magic solution that will somehow turn all the students and their school scores around. I mean, you know, without actually having better teachers who are more accountable or anything.

    2. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by alen · · Score: 2

      the price includes a lot of online course content for the kids

      teachers are being commoditized into the role of babysitters and the real work is done by pearson and others

    3. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by DigiShaman · · Score: 0

      It's California liberalism. That's all you need to know. It's not like that state is in any financial trouble or anything (trying not to laugh).

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    4. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by alen · · Score: 1

      but just imagine how much money they will save if the kids just wrote their own tests?

    5. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      And graded each others tests. Distributed test grading. Can't beat that! Imagine a beowulf cluster of that! And runs linux too!

    6. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not $968 per but $678 (which includes some software), still way to much
      "The iPads will cost $678 each, which includes a case and a full slate of learning software, but no keyboard. Money for the project comes from voter-approved bond revenue. Additional costs within the $30 million include hiring about 15 "facilitators," as well as additional training and support for the first 47 schools."

    7. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by foniksonik · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're forgetting the infrastructure to support it. Wifi in classrooms, provisioning system. School App Store. Insurance policy. Training for teachers. Licensing for content.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    8. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uh, most kids already DO grade each others tests, well, quizzes at least. I remember passing quizzes to the person next to us all the time after taking a quiz and getting it graded right then and there. Furthermore, evidence suggests the act of teaching stuff to someone else helps you learn it much better, so having kids devise tests and grade each other could be quite beneficial, as long as there was some teacher oversight.

    9. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by icebike · · Score: 1

      Holy crap that is expensive. $968 per iPad. Considering how good a Nexus 7 is I can't understand the thinking here.

      And you thought Apple was giving all those computers to schools in the 80's and 90's out of good will?
      This is what happens when those kids grow up and become teachers and run for School Board seats.

      Given that the courseware is available on more than one platform, they should just give each kid
      a voucher, and let the vendor's compete.

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      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    10. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by guruevi · · Score: 4, Informative

      Especially that last one, the infrastructure is cheap (3 or 4 servers and a single sysadmin will give you management for 400,000 iPads). When each e-book costs on average $60/student, that's where most of your money goes.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    11. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Now watch me get modded down by all the fandroids.

      Probably because you're being rude and insulting by calling people 'fandroids' despite the point being perfectly valid. You could just as easily be called a fanboi because you're disregarding Android tablets as abjectly useless and you're being insulting to boot (because, in your mind, anybody who would chose a Nexus 7 has their head up their ass). Then, of course, you bring up Chromebooks for no reason other than it they were mentioned in another thread.

      I forgot, fandroids write their own software. Every kid should be writing their own software stack.

      Yes, everybody who owns an Android device writes all the software they use, and a Nexus 7 comes with absolutely no OS or software of any kind on it. There are certainly no e-readers or anything of the like available for Android devices. The kids would have to write everything themselves if the school district had chosen Android tablets. What a rational, well reasoned argument.

    12. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by IANAAC · · Score: 1

      So, when you buy a computer, you don't buy software?

      ...

      They buy it for the ability to run software they need. Right now, Androids still don't have the software they need. It's as simple as that.

      Has the common core standard even been finalized yet? According to one of the links in TFS it hasn't. I suppose it could be by 2014, but knowing the bureaucracy involved in both the standard itself and the LAUSD, I have my doubts.

    13. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Redmancometh · · Score: 1

      I've never seen so many antiliberal pistd get voted up *snicker.* And I wonder why we're actually in the black here in tx

    14. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Redmancometh · · Score: 1

      Was about to basically say this word for word.

    15. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with Android. Pilots operate $100M machinery every day and work in a locked cockpit with absurd security. Spending $1000 for a tablet to replace their manuals is a good idea.

      On the other hand, an 8 year old with an iPad walking home from school in Los Angeles is what you would call "fresh meat".

    16. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      teachers are being commoditized into the role of babysitters and the real work is done by pearson and others

      There is nothing wrong with technology deskilling an industry. We invest an awful lot in educating teachers, if those workers could be directed to something more productive that would be wonderful.

      The problem is educating primary and secondary school students is very important and there is not much indication these high-tech solutions are doing it well. So maybe its not yet time to push the qualified humans aside.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    17. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Endovior · · Score: 1

      There is nothing wrong with technology deskilling an industry. We invest an awful lot in educating teachers, if those workers could be directed to something more productive that would be wonderful.

      The problem is educating primary and secondary school students is very important and there is not much indication these high-tech solutions are doing it well. So maybe its not yet time to push the qualified humans aside.

      Counterpoint. What indications are there that the teachers are doing their jobs well? It's not necessarily the case that the technology is better, and the whole mess certainly reeks of a pork-filled lobbyist scheme... but really, how would that be different from the other public school offerings in play? It's not really possible to evaluate how effective the technology will be until it's out in the field, after all, so we may as well let the experiment run its course, now that the bills are paid.

    18. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 2

      3 pegs pal....Bette teachers you can control for and in most cases have been achieved....Better parents who raise better children is where you run into 90% of the problems in educating children in poor districts start and then the poor students/parents grind the teachers down until you have teachers who just don't care anymore.

    19. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      since the people of the district voted for a bond measure the funds are already paid for by the people who live in the district so you statement makes no sense.

    20. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      A public organization buy a device where you have one source of content and one source of hardware should be criminal when there are alternatives that allow competition in both areas. Basically, they're now tied to Apple in the future. For private organizations, it's just stupid but for public, it should be illegal.

    21. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      In class quizes are not the same as school-wide/system-wide/nation-wide/international exams.

    22. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Seumas · · Score: 1

      However, none of those pegs is a trendy Candy Rush tablet.

    23. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Jerry Brown signed a balanced budget for 2013.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California#State_finances

    24. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by icebike · · Score: 1

      Well the course-ware they plan to use is also available on Android (most of it anyway). You have to did deep in the course-ware website to see the Android availability, but it is there.

      With Android's market share in tablets exceeding Apple by a wide margin you would expect that this emphasis on Apple will wane. (Assuming of course that Apple doesn't have a significant interest in Pearson).

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    25. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're getting modded down because your a douchebag, not because of "fandroids."

    26. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Combined, they tend to make up as much or more of your grade than tests. Not to mention you made no mention whatsoever of nationwide or international exams. Nor do those tests tend to mean anything at all.

    27. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      depends on your teacher/school/system.

    28. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      since the people of the district voted for a bond measure the funds are already paid for by the people who live in the district so you statement makes no sense.

      This assumes that the bonds will be repaid and the issuers won't default on them and ask for a bailout from more frugal taxpayers.

      I'm not in a position to judge which way this particular bond will go, but that situation is happening in other jurisdictions.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    29. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      the price includes a lot of online course content for the kids

      That's a little rich for content that is created once and thereafter costs the vendor $0.00 to distribute. What was the tender process for this contract?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    30. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Tough+Love · · Score: 0

      You're forgetting the infrastructure to support it. Wifi in classrooms, provisioning system. School App Store. Insurance policy. Training for teachers. Licensing for content.

      Bonuses for salesmen. Payola for school board. Hush money for regulators. Champagne for Apple execs.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    31. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      With Android's market share in tablets exceeding Apple by a wide margin you would expect that this emphasis on Apple will wane.

      Not until Apple runs out of payola.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    32. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's "way TOO much", and you obviously are American... LOL.

    33. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      since the people of the district voted for a bond measure the funds are already paid for by the people who live in the district

      I ddn't realize that simply voting for something meant that you funded it.

      No, the bonds were sold all over the world, just like the 2005 Detroit bonds used to cover the $1.4 billion pension shortfall that it had accumulated up to that point.

      The holders of those bonds are not going to be getting most of their money back, let alone the interest owed.

      Borrowing is not funding. Borrowing is promising to somehow someway fund it in the future.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    34. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by jsepeta · · Score: 1

      how much do textbooks cost? $300-$400/year? that seems about right. so $600 for the ipad, and the rest of the amount covers the educational material.

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    35. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by oh2 · · Score: 1

      You are missing the point. iPads cant replace teachers, they are a tool. A very useful one, but they cant replace humans. Teaching takes a lot more than just telling the kids which page to start reading from or grading homework. Sure, some stuff can be bought canned, and I know of your fondness for multiple choice tests over there, but its not enough if you want real results.

      --

      Now the world has gone to bed, Darkness won't engulf my head, I can see by infra-red, How I hate the night.

    36. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      The GP said "It's not like that state is in any financial trouble or anything". indicating issues with their budget. Bond holders getting screwed is orthogonal to what the GP said and is also part of the risk of investing. If they can find enough retarded people to fund these city bonds and they end up defaulting on them then it is the problem for the investors.

    37. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And how much does setting up a wifi network that can handle several hundred students simultaneously using it cost?

    38. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      You're forgetting the infrastructure to support it. Wifi in classrooms, provisioning system. School App Store. Insurance policy. Training for teachers. Licensing for content.

      Bonuses for salesmen. Payola for school board. Hush money for regulators. Champagne for Apple execs.

      Salary for "image management" astroturds.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    39. Re:$30 MILLION WILL ONLY COVER THE FIRST 31,000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's public education. There is no thinking involved.

  9. context consumption vs creation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Tablets work nicely for casual content consumption; however, they are so limited for context creation. We should be encouraging our student to create and express versus simple digesting information.

    1. Re:context consumption vs creation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people find it easier to "create and express" using a tablet than on a Windows based PC.

    2. Re:context consumption vs creation by Morpf · · Score: 2

      Thousand of dollars for what kind of software? A simple laptop costs a couple hundred. And can be taken "anywhere", too. What do "normal people" use for content creation? Office packages like libre office or MS office. First one is free. What else? Image processing, GIMP is free and good enough for "normal people". Movie cutting... kdenlive is good enough for normal people. Maybe a sequencer for musicians? How about reaper, $60?

      So can you me please explain what multi-thousend dollar applications those "normal people" now don't need anymore?

    3. Re:context consumption vs creation by narcc · · Score: 1

      Actually it's the other way around: tablets have opened up content creation in ways that were previously closed to "normal" people who couldn't afford thousands of dollars for expensive applications

      Finger painting has never required thousands of dollars worth of anything. It has certainly never required software!

    4. Re:context consumption vs creation by Morpf · · Score: 1

      Any source for this claim? Sounds a lot like: "I do, so should the rest."

    5. Re:context consumption vs creation by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Limit in some ways, GREATLY expand in many others.

    6. Re:context consumption vs creation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They are more powerful than desktop PCs from just a few years ago

      Doubtful, unless by 'just a few years' you mean ~5+ years (quite a long time in the context of computers). My desktop with laughably outdated components (a C2D and a HD4850) runs games, art programs, and just general browsing faster than any tablet I've used.

    7. Re:context consumption vs creation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially because once they get out into the real world, Photoshop is what's used for professional work, not GIMP.

    8. Re:context consumption vs creation by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      So what does Photoshop for a tablet cost?

    9. Re:context consumption vs creation by Teun · · Score: 1
      Sure.

      And how many make their money editing photo's at a level that requires Photoshop?

      Besides, the interface of Photoshop is quite alien to those that grew up using Gimp.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    10. Re:context consumption vs creation by Morpf · · Score: 1

      I thought we talked about normal people. Please name a use case where GIMP is not sufficient for a kid or a non-professional? If they want Photoshop they have to buy it. Now guess how many non-professionals would actually _buy_ Photoshop. And again, no explanation whatsoever where you are basing your claims on. "They want", "is unintuitive for them" how do you know? Again, we are talking about what Jon Doe is doing. So most likely no HDR, no manual color correction. Don't get me wrong, I would say Photoshop may have a more streamlined work flow, but a) you really notice it, if you start doing more advanced stuff and b) it comes with a price tag and features Jon Doe will most likely never use.

    11. Re:context consumption vs creation by Morpf · · Score: 1

      If they are planning to use it as a professional they will buy it. I don't see your point here. People use the tools that is the most appropriate for them. And people will more likely accept a slightly lower user experience if they won't use a tool regularly if they can save several hundred dollars. Or they try to pirate it, but that is not the point in this discussion.

    12. Re:context consumption vs creation by Morpf · · Score: 1

      Oh and you didn't explain which multi-thousand dollar software those people now don't have to buy anymore, because they are using an iPad now.

    13. Re:context consumption vs creation by DaphneDiane · · Score: 1
    14. Re:context consumption vs creation by Noughmad · · Score: 1

      And what do they create? Text messages and facebook posts, anything else?

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    15. Re:context consumption vs creation by Morpf · · Score: 1

      Even my 7 year old computer is way more powerful.

    16. Re:context consumption vs creation by Morpf · · Score: 1

      Please be more specific: What is greatly expanded and how?

    17. Re:context consumption vs creation by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      If they use pooh as their medium then it's all about creativity and expression! None of that stupid rote stuff like times tables.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    18. Re:context consumption vs creation by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Learning to use dull safety scissors and Elmer's glue: limited.
      Learning photography, movie making, music, and editing of all of those: greatly expanded from anything *I* did in grade school.

      If you want more examples - for chrissakes, pick up a tablet or smartphone and use it for 30 seconds. Yes, physical manipulation becomes more limited (but hey, finger painting is supported and a hell of a lot less messy!) but if you can't quickly come up with a half dozen examples of things you just couldn't trivially do without a tablet (here's a few more: real time dynamic geography lessons with GPS; interesting physics simulations using the accelerometer, etc; multiplication table exercises that don't require tedious photocopying and teacher grading) you are just being lazy...

    19. Re:context consumption vs creation by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      So what does Photoshop for a tablet cost?

      $9.99 for tablet, $4.99 for phone.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    20. Re:context consumption vs creation by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      And how many make their money editing photo's at a level that requires Photoshop?

      Millions?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    21. Re:context consumption vs creation by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Apple says that certain features require a complimentary Adobe Creative Cloud membership, but Adobe lists such membership at $49.99 per month.

    22. Re:context consumption vs creation by colinrichardday · · Score: 0

      Apple says that certain features require a complimentary Creative Cloud membership, but Adobe's website lists such membership at $49.99 per month.

    23. Re:context consumption vs creation by DaphneDiane · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apple says that certain features require a complimentary Adobe Creative Cloud membership, but Adobe lists such membership at $49.99 per month.

      There are two levels of creative cloud memberships, one includes subscriptions to a bunch of apps ( that's the $49.99 / month ), and the basic level which is sort of like an icloud / dropbox service for storing files ( which is free for 2 GB worth of storage ). The feature that requires creative cloud is that dropbox-like service.

      Also the descriptions on appstores are written by the developers, so is what Adobe is saying, not what Apple is saying. I just checked on my Nexus 10 and the description is pretty much the same in the Google Play store.

    24. Re:context consumption vs creation by Morpf · · Score: 1

      Well it's important to learn how to use real objects in my opinion. Yes we worked with scissors and glue, we learned gardening, painting (as far a child of that age can do), playing real music instruments, learned how to work with wood. Show me how you'd do this with a tablet. And I was in no way bored.

      Learning photography with a smartphone or a tablet... Are you serious? Movie making, with a tablet? Seriously? Don't you think a real camera would be a better fit? Real lenses and everything can be set manually: focal length, focus, sensitivity (ISO), exposure time, aperture, white balance. More over you will get WAY better pictures. Of course you would not give every kid one, but you couldn't either, because you have to help them all the time. Everything else is just showing them how to turn the device towards the object to be filmed and pushing a button. That's just trivial.

      I highly doubt multi-touch devices are a substitution for real painting (be it with fingers or brushes or whatever).

      And yes I own and use a smartphone and guess what? This kind of device is nothing I would ever consider for creating content, not even for using just a sequencer or to take pictures.

      What should "real time dynamic geography with GPS" be? Please give me a specific example. Don't you think it would be preferable to teach those kids reading analog maps? That way they learn to perceive their surroundings and improve their visual thinking, too.

      I have never seen any interesting physics simulation that could be enhance by an accelerometer, please give an example. More over we did most experiments in real live and if something was too advanced a short film presented by the teacher was quite sufficient. Why should we need 30 screens in class essentially showing the same?

      Exercises: We used to have the questions written on the table or in a (work)book. Answered them, then the teacher read aloud the solutions and we checked with ours. If we didn't understand why our answers were wrong, we could simply raise our hands and ask for assistance. There is nothing tedious in there.

      I am not lazy, I just can't make up any advantage that would outweight the disadvantages.

    25. Re:context consumption vs creation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $9.99 if you have iPad, or you can get Express for free on iOS or Android.

    26. Re:context consumption vs creation by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Learning photography with a smartphone or a tablet... Are you serious? Movie making, with a tablet? Seriously? Don't you think a real camera would be a better fit? Real lenses and everything can be set manually: focal length, focus, sensitivity (ISO), exposure time, aperture, white balance. More over you will get WAY better pictures

      Of course I'm serious. An 8 year old doesn't need to start worrying about focal length and ISO - they need to be inspired and excited to learn and create. And in any case, you are talking about DLSRs at that point, which is obviously not an option to provide to every student (and is a complete "single tasking" device). If they want to get more serious about photography they can take a class in high school, the same as has already been the case. This all goes double for movies - there are perfectly capable (especially for 8-13 year olds!) video editing apps for the iPad that used to cost 100x more money to be able to use on a PC (and require a MUCH higher learning curve) 5-10 years ago.

      You don't have any kids, do you? I want to assume you have tried a tablet (not smartphone) before, at least, but I have a hard time believing you have spent any significant amount of time trying to teach young children anything. It's amazing what amount of creativity a tablet like an iPad with some cheap $5-$10 software can inspire in even elementary school-age kids. The first time you see an 8-9 year old write, film, edit, and dub a short movie all by herself entirely with an iPad you quickly understand how powerful of a creative learning device it can be.

      Also, try giving a 5 year old a set of paint and brushes and leaving him to his own devices for 30 minutes. I can almost guarantee disaster there. Now try doing it with 10 or more 5 year olds - I think they'd call that "Kindergeddon". Do the same thing with a simple child-focued paint app and you may still have your sanity after it's over. Does that mean children should never learn to use real paint, crayons, colored pencils, etc? Of course not. Digital art is just another technique, and can be a valuable tool to teach the basics (which are similar no matter the medium).

      This kind of device is nothing I would ever consider for creating content, not even for using just a sequencer or to take pictures.

      And you probably don't use wax crayons to create content any more, either. How is that relevant to a child? Your personal preference isn't very applicable here - even for adults, many many MANY millions in fact DO use them to take pictures and video. In fact, the percentage of photos taken with smartphones was estimated at over 30% last year, and expected to hit 50% in the next few years.

      What should "real time dynamic geography with GPS" be? Please give me a specific example. Don't you think it would be preferable to teach those kids reading analog maps? That way they learn to perceive their surroundings and improve their visual thinking, too.

      Why should I bother, you can go look it up yourself if you really care - there are dozens of examples on iTunes. My 9 year old niece could probably beat 90% of adults with her knowledge of basic geography by now - and importantly the app was *fun* so she actually wanted to learn the subject. I wish more adults (especially in the US, where world geography knowledge is pretty poor) would try some of these apps. And the GPS part - while it *is* very useful and teaches some things an "analog" map won't - again it's largely about interactivity and inspiration. As I have said/alluded to already several times, motivation, not information, is the most important factor when teaching young children. There is plenty of information out there; if you motivate kids you can get them to learn on their own, which almost anyone would agree is more effective (as different kids learn better in different ways).

      Not to you or others

    27. Re:context consumption vs creation by Morpf · · Score: 1

      Of course I'm serious.

      Sorry was a bit snappy there.

      An 8 year old doesn't need to start worrying about focal length and ISO - they need to be inspired and excited to learn and create. And in any case, you are talking about DLSRs at that point, which is obviously not an option to provide to every student (and is a complete "single tasking" device). If they want to get more serious about photography they can take a class in high school, the same as has already been the case.

      You are right that a DSLR is nothing I would give a 8 year old into it's hand and say "go wild", but you said learning photography, so I thought of older kids. ;) My fault. And yes I would provide like 3 DSLRs for a special curse, where the kids work together and switch roles. But well, I would say learning taking pictures in auto mode a simple used digital camera would suffice, just because it's cheap. I doesn't really hurt if it breaks, can't say that for an device costing several hundred dollars. Same goes for brushes, crayons and so on. Those things will break or at least wear out. But it doesn't matter.

      This all goes double for movies - there are perfectly capable (especially for 8-13 year olds!) video editing apps for the iPad that used to cost 100x more money to be able to use on a PC (and require a MUCH higher learning curve) 5-10 years ago.

      You don't have any kids, do you? I want to assume you have tried a tablet (not smartphone) before, at least, but I have a hard time believing you have spent any significant amount of time trying to teach young children anything. It's amazing what amount of creativity a tablet like an iPad with some cheap $5-$10 software can inspire in even elementary school-age kids. The first time you see an 8-9 year old write, film, edit, and dub a short movie all by herself entirely with an iPad you quickly understand how powerful of a creative learning device it can be.

      So the problems seems more like "What easy and capable (enough) software I can get for a specific platform?" I suspect tablets to be better on this part. It rises the question why the PC doesn't have this kind of software (yet).

      Also, try giving a 5 year old a set of paint and brushes and leaving him to his own devices for 30 minutes. I can almost guarantee disaster there.
      Now try doing it with 10 or more 5 year olds - I think they'd call that "Kindergeddon".

      The key is to not let alone kids of that age armed with those devices. ;) At least not for the first couple times.

      Do the same thing with a simple child-focued paint app and you may still have your sanity after it's over. Does that mean children should never learn to use real paint, crayons, colored pencils, etc? Of course not. Digital art is just another technique, and can be a valuable tool to teach the basics (which are similar no matter the medium).

      To be honest, I would expect the child to accidentally break the tablet. A five year old isn't that coordinated yet. ;) Of course digital art has it's place. I am even a proponent and "creator" of it.

      This kind of device is nothing I would ever consider for creating content, not even for using just a sequencer or to take pictures.

      And you probably don't use wax crayons to create content any more, either. How is that relevant to a child?

      It may be relevant or not I don't use it, cause it feels somewhat clumsy. Now this is just my view, but I have had many easier ways to create content than touching on a small screen.

      Your personal preference isn't very applicable here - even for adults, many many MANY millions in fact DO use them to take pictures and video. In fact, the percentage of photos taken with smartphones was esti

    28. Re:context consumption vs creation by Teun · · Score: 1

      You need to be moderated 'Funny'.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    29. Re:context consumption vs creation by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Used some potentially alike program on a PC when I was a child. Yes it's a great way to learn this stuff. But not bound to touch interfaces

      In the park/museum/zoo while walking around (and in the car afterwards)? In a couple hours with a single device? (and probably not to the frankly amazing final results achievable for a young child given those parameters). It's not the *only* way to do it, but it's such a fun, approachable way it opens things up to so many more kids (and adults!) Remember an important point - not everyone is as technically-minded as we are (many people are just plain afraid of computers and complicated interfaces). There is a reason Apple has sold such an absurd number of smartphones and tablets (and also sometimes gets gripes from techies who think it's too "dumbed down"...)

      What will you learn from using GPS you would not learn from an analog map? (honest question)

      It's not just GPS itself, but GPS in *combination* with so many other things a static map can't easily provide. I love good old physical maps, my room as a kid was decorated with them on all of the walls, in fact :) But there are so many cool things a tablet with GPS adds... real time altitude, lat/long, weather (in so many ways - radar, regional weather patterns and how topography affects it, microclimates, etc), apps that track your walks with exact route, pace, and even estimated calories burned (any way to get kids in the cities more into exercise) - hell, there is even a Google Maps mod to show what a nuke would do to your neighborhood (frightening but eye opening). Even just watching a compass move - sure you could buy every kid a real compass, but it's free on the device. Of course that gets into an entirely different can of worms, which is that you have to understand many kids and school districts (probably in the US more than many 1st world countries where the educational system is managed nationally instead of locally) are so poor that as nice as it would be they just can't afford a single-tasking piece of electronics (DLSR, video camera, GPS unit, whatever) or many other non-electronic equipment for every child. Tablets aren't free, of course, but eventually (hopefully! and that's not a given...) the cost differences of software solutions could *potentially* make things much more cost effective, and each child could get their own experience, rather than having to share a few tools in an overcrowded classroom.

      In my view it would be more important to get competent, enthusiastic teachers who get the kids interest in a subject and motivates why they are learning for example algebra. To further that knowledge a family PC or a terminal in the school library would maybe work out. I really don't know, though.

      Absolutely! But sadly, as long as we pay our teachers way below what an intelligent person could make in other fields and generally otherwise treat them like crap and blame them for what is usually the parents' fault, that's never going to happen. Pay teachers a six figure salary with performance bonuses and no arbitrary tenure, and I *guarantee* you will get many of the best and brightest into the field. The absolute *most* dedicated will do it regardless of how they are treated, but the other 98% of teachers would probably like to be rewarded for their efforts once in a while.

      Basically, the decision being made be the LA school district seems to be to embrace technology over teachers. Which seems kind of sad, and as I said I don't think it will work in their situation due to many reasons (not least of which is it's an absurdly expensive and huge experiment for the second biggest - and one of the more challenged - school districts in the US).

      Honestly (but somewhat sadly) trying something like this in an affluent suburb would probably allow modern tablets to be uses as they should - an amazing and relatively inexpensive tool to enhance exiting education without the dis

  10. Can't wait for the dog to eat the homework. by jfdavis668 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How many will break in the first week?

    1. Re:Can't wait for the dog to eat the homework. by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      A valid question. I'm pretty sure that a lot of those kid's parents don't have the money to pay for a replacement either. Maybe Apple Care will cover them. That would explain why it's around 1,000 bucks apiece for those tablets.

    2. Re:Can't wait for the dog to eat the homework. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      About as many as will get stolen or "lost".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Can't wait for the dog to eat the homework. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many will break in the first week?

      Irrelevant since the price includes no-extra-cost replacements for lost, broken or stolen iPads. You thought the price sounded expensive? Not when it includes that for devices in the hands of kids.

    4. Re:Can't wait for the dog to eat the homework. by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      Your reading comprehension is off. That initial payment is for just the first 31,000 iPads. And I didn't use a computer, I just did a very rough estimate in my head for a ballpark figure. I'll give you a break though, almost no one 'round here reads the article.

    5. Re:Can't wait for the dog to eat the homework. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have GPS options such as Computrace for these now.

      Student, I um lost it
      School. really? we see it online at your home...

    6. Re:Can't wait for the dog to eat the homework. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You are aware that you pit your technology against the minds of a school full of children without any remorse and with a lot of time on their hands, yes?

      We complain about our kids not knowing how to share. Don't worry: They do. Information flows nowhere as freely and easily as on the schoolyard.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  11. Everyone can now benefit from... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    ...an iDucation.

    This will make 'muricans smart, honest. -iSalesmen

  12. 30000000/31000=967 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    30000000/31000=967, it's too hot for math. The point stands though.

  13. So when these poor kids break/sell their iPads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who pays for the new ones? Have a funny feeling the tax payers are going to have fun with this one...

  14. Tried, didn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't this tried before? The students and teachers found little use for them because they could not interact easily with their PCs with word/excel/email etc.

    1. Re:Tried, didn't work by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Wasn't this tried before? The students and teachers found little use for them because they could not interact easily with their PCs with word/excel/email etc.

      These days they would interact with Google docs, Wikpedia, etc. Why they need overpriced, proprietary Apple products for that is far from clear.

      BTW, a few electrocutions from now maybe people will figure out what's wrong with a solid aluminum case.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  15. So much for competition and standards by markdavis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is sad in so many ways. Primarily that there has to be such lock-in with public funds and on such an overpriced device. No need to go into ALL the details, it has already been hashed out on Slashdot before regarding price, toyness, theft, maintenance, battery wear, lack of E-Ink, lockdown, spyware, compatibility, damage, serviceability, insurance, attention span reduction, etc, etc.

    Love technology, but sometimes it seems like it is not moving things forward, just sideways.... especially when it gets political.

    Oh, and 30 million dollars for 31,000 tablets comes to $968 each. And that is supposed to be some special deal discount??? Meanwhile, the smaller, lighter, faster, higher res, second iteration of the Nexus 7 releases for $229 WITHOUT discount.

  16. I hope they write their essays by hand then by sandytaru · · Score: 1

    Otherwise Louisiana is going to be rearing an entire generation of hunt and peck typists.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    1. Re:I hope they write their essays by hand then by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      Though at least they may have better reading ability than you. TFS says Los Angeles.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    2. Re:I hope they write their essays by hand then by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Though at least they may have better reading ability than you. TFS says Los Angeles.

      That's just mean. He didn't have the benefit of an iPad when he was a learnin' stuff.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
  17. RTFA this time by sandytaru · · Score: 1

    LA the city, not LA the state.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
  18. iPad a frightening Choice by tuppe666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ignoring the fact that you are giving children $1000 devices (Several times the cost of the opposition) that puts them vulnerable to attack. They are unfixable, and heavy, have to work with Apples closed garden. In a dynamic market where Apple is a niche player, its tablet sales dropping. You are rewarding a company that prides itself on not paying tax.

    I'm glad its not my tax Dollars. This should have been given to a open platform, willing to provide low margin, easily fixable, assembled in America, Light, ugly tablets..that pays tax.

    Its a shame because I think its a great idea.

    1. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Considering the planned use of the devices, being behind a walled garden really isn't that big of a deal.

      Now was Apple the right choice? Who knows, but i don't think its because of their 'store' restrictions.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The school system isn't fixing anything electronic. If a hard drive goes out in a computer they are chucking the computer. Let alone a tablet.

    3. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by stenvar · · Score: 1

      It is your tax dollars, since no matter where you are in the US, you will be bailing out that failing state. And California shows no signs of returning to fiscal sanity either.

    4. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The governor just ran on the platform that their recent proposed tax increases would finally SOLVE all of California's budget problems. That is why you keep hearing stories about how people in that state now have a 61% income tax rate.

      Are you suggesting taxing at 61% is still not enough to fund the government? Would 75% do it?

    5. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      California will not get bailed out.

    6. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I think this is going to be a disaster (and dislike Apple's walled garden model in general), but honestly they should probably put up as many walls around this garden as possible. Hell, put something in the firmware to prevent any apps from being installed or the device from being repurposed in any way - might make the poor grade school kids carrying them somewhat less of an obvious target to criminals. Otherwise the LA police will soon be opening up a dedicated "iPad Crimes Division" (can't wait for the "Law & Order: ICD" TV adaptation...)

    7. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You will be glad to hear that LAUSD got an extra $200 million this year due to a new California sales tax hike.

    8. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by stenvar · · Score: 1

      It's already getting bailed out, at the same time getting spared the embarrassment of having it called that.

    9. Re: iPad a frightening Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's a great idea? Devices that are largely used for consumption as a method to educate? It's a glorified TV.
      I'm disgusted.

    10. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      California receives 78 cents in federal funds for each dollar that gets sent to the Federal government in taxes.

      What the real bailout is the states that receive more funds from the Federal Government than they send. That is pretty much all the Red states.

    11. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by jsepeta · · Score: 0

      "several times the cost of the competition"? Are you out of your mind? What's the competition? Show us some facts.

      There are NO tablets equal to the iPad in terms of software infrastructure, app availability, management tools, and educational content -- you should consider the whole ball of wax. High-quality Android tablets sell for similar prices, due to the cost of components (and the fact that Apple's iPads are priced competitively because Apple has achieved benefits of scale of production which Android tablet manufacturers have not).

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    12. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by stenvar · · Score: 1

      You're citing old numbers, and even those numbers have been in dispute. The economy and fiscal situation of California have greatly changed.

      Furthermore, what "Red states" do is irrelevant to this discussion. This isn't a Democrat vs Republican issue. And even 78 cents on the dollar would be too high.

    13. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Citation needed.

    14. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by stenvar · · Score: 1

      Citation needed.

      Yes, indeed, you needed to provide a citation.

    15. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by stenvar · · Score: 1

      That is a blog post from 2010 and the actual data is even older. Hence, you just supported my statement "The economy and fiscal situation of California have greatly changed."

      I actually have the original citation. Try tracking it down yourself, reading it and understanding it; maybe you'll stop making such a fool of yourself.

    16. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Really? You have a citation but you refuse to post it?

      If you you have it, post it. Otherwise you are just a bullshitter.

    17. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the same citation you have; just get off your lazy ass and track down the original paper and then understand it. End of story.

    18. Re:iPad a frightening Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are the king of bullshit. No valid information just handwaving.

      Well smoke on this:

      http://underthemountainbunker.com/2013/02/28/24-hour-warning-by-the-way-red-states-take-in-more-federal-money-than-they-pay-in-taxes/

      2010 data that shows the same pattern as before. CA is paying in more than it receives. The Red States are the true welfare states. Things haven't changed like you claim.

      What an idiot.

  19. Sue over injury by tuppe666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who pays for the new ones? Have a funny feeling the tax payers are going to have fun with this one...

    The large costs will be when students get attacked for carrying around $1000 electronics.

    1. Re:Sue over injury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The large costs will be when students get attacked for carrying around $1000 electronics.

      Let me think. I can think of a very simple solution to avoid such attacks. Maybe you can as well, if you turn your brain on instead of posting drivel here.

      I can't. What's your answer? Hopefully not something stupid like bolting them to the desks at school, so the kids have no way to study their iTextbook at home.

    2. Re:Sue over injury by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      It's not obvious to me, either. Pray enlighten us, O Wise One.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    3. Re:Sue over injury by kumanopuusan · · Score: 1

      It's simple, really. You just need a watchdog program that prompts the user to biometrically verify their identity via retinal scan and enter a 10 digit PIN code every 15 seconds. In the event of failed verification or loss of power, the LAPads contain a small amount of high explosive, which detonates, showering the would-be student with supersonic fragments of glass, metal and plastic.

      --
      Use of the words "good", "bad" or "evil" is almost invariably the result of oversimplification.
    4. Re:Sue over injury by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Let me think. I can think of a very simple solution to avoid such attacks. Maybe you can as well, if you turn your brain on instead of posting drivel here.

      Is it a walking bus?

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    5. Re:Sue over injury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, what solution do you have to avoid having your kid get attacked by random thugs (remember this is LA) while on the way to school? Drive them there (reducing their independence and thus hurting their education even more)? Or pack a pistol in with their lunch?

      Someone needs to turn on their brain here and it definitely isn't the GP.

    6. Re:Sue over injury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The large costs will be when students get attacked for carrying around $1000 electronics.

      Let me think. I can think of a very simple solution to avoid such attacks. Maybe you can as well, if you turn your brain on instead of posting drivel here.

      Yeah, that's an easy one. Just let kids carry concealed handguns, too. "Problem" solved.

    7. Re:Sue over injury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean we should give them a gun also?

    8. Re:Sue over injury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The large costs will be when students get attacked for carrying around $1000 electronics.

      Let me think. I can think of a very simple solution to avoid such attacks. Maybe you can as well, if you turn your brain on instead of posting drivel here.

      I can't. What's your answer? Hopefully not something stupid like bolting them to the desks at school, so the kids have no way to study their iTextbook at home.

      Guess the GP's idea really was that stupid.

  20. Money better spent on education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Giving students computers? When you could, oh, I don't know, spend those millions on teacher education, classroom supplies and capital improvements that are probably critically needed but neglected because of retarded earmarked funds like this?

    1. Re:Money better spent on education by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Yes but this is the solution that will bring out the genius that is in every child. /s

      It's just like a lot of software development shops that keep trying the latest tool or methodology hoping that it will be a silver bullet and solve all of their problems.

  21. Walled Garden an enormous Deal by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    Considering the planned use of the devices, being behind a walled garden really isn't that big of a deal.

    The reality is I would hope that LA would have a separate store with free (cross platform) edutainment created by Local People, to support teaching and learning and the savings on not buying apple could have bought a lot of content, and got a lot of people jobs...rather than it going towards buying its shares back.

    I think its offensive Apple have been chosen.

  22. They tried this in Newark and it failed. by assemblerex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was just at liquidations for three schools where they tried this. Somehow they think that throwing high technology at bad students will somehow transform them into good students. The reality is three schools failed to perform, even with millions of dollars in apple miracle products. These children have a poor home structure, poor social structure that frowns on those who are smart as "acting white", a culture they idolizes those who chase quick money and material goods, and no penalties for parents who barely raise their kids. This too will fail, as technology is NOT a substitute for good parenting.

    1. Re:They tried this in Newark and it failed. by notanalien_justgreen · · Score: 1

      It's not a substitute for good parenting OR good teaching. Kids need both and iPads don't help with either.

    2. Re:They tried this in Newark and it failed. by Adnonify · · Score: 1

      If i had points +5 insightful for you!

  23. What were the other bids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As an employee for a different silicon valley company. I would very much like to know why we were not allowed to bid on such a device contract. Is this more political corruption?

  24. Like Stallman said by Bob+Esponja · · Score: 1

    "Please get into the public schools privative software to get free citizens" It's good to know someone listen him.

    1. Re:Like Stallman said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did Stallman have a stroke? I never really liked the guy, but he didn't deserve this!

    2. Re:Like Stallman said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Please get into the public schools privative software to get free citizens".

      Huh? Was Stallman drunk or something when he said that?

  25. Same story in the UK this week. Coincidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/jul/28/ipad-tablet-computer-school-parents

    Except that here parents will have to buy them, regardless of their income.

    Also, check out the Netherlands "Steve Jobs Schools" :

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/07/02/dutch-steve-jobs-schools-to-use-apples-ipad-for-entire-education-experience

    Personally I am still undecided between thinking this is all a phenominally stupid idea (kids are going to be using IPads for everything for the rest of their lives so why learn how to write? Hey Mr Criminal, every kid walking to and from school has a IPad in their bag!) or too much of a coincidence to not be a coincidence.

  26. Crime Wave Predicted by SirBitBucket · · Score: 1

    With Mayor Bloomberg (morn extraordinaire) claiming NYC's crime increase is due to iPads and iPhones ( http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/crime-is-up-and-bloomberg-blames-iphone-thieves/?_r=0 ) I predict a massive wave of crime as kids get beat up or killed for their fondle-slab. What a waste of resources. Perhaps they might consider getting rid of the teacher's union which is driving their state broke instead... http://reason.com/archives/2013/03/29/union-greed-drives-california-bankruptcy

  27. America has gone mad by ikhider · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Ipad is DRM. The kids cannot study, share or modify the code or freely run the programs as they wish. The kids are beholden to whatver rules Apple imposes. A better route would be an open device that allows for an understanding of how it works along with innovation. Consequently, generations of dependant users are not encouraged to understand and improve things. I prefer generations of innovators, thinkers, who share ideas, challenge and improve. Give the kids access to the source, let them root the thing. The devices should run libre software and made locally. Do you want Islaves or Thinkers? Rewarding oppression does not do much good for the world either. Apple's labour policies leaves a lot to be desired. http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/activate/2011/09/201194144739197637.html The third world has better devices, like the One Laptop Per Child http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Laptop_per_Child that runs the opensource Sugar OS. Heck, places like China, India, and South America have the right idea. They use devices that run LIbre software. Why is it that the US is taking the worst route possible? On everything?

    --
    "SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
    1. Re:America has gone mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because we're not trying to turn out educated citizens who are critical thinkers, we're trying to turn out another generation of mindless consumers.

    2. Re:America has gone mad by jeremyp · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The Ipad is DRM. The kids cannot study, share or modify the code or freely run the programs as they wish. The kids are beholden to whatver rules Apple imposes. A better route would be an open device that allows for an understanding of how it works along with innovation.

      Out in the real world nobody gives a flying fuck how their devices work as long as they do work. These iPads are not being bought as devices to help people learn to program, so it really doesn't matter if they are open or not.

      The real tragedy here is not that the new shiny text book e-readers are Apple built, but that they are spending the money on shiny technical gizmos of any colour rather than better teachers and teaching. It is a clear demonstration of incompetence on the part of the relevant authorities.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    3. Re:America has gone mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They're not distributing the devices to give the kids something to learn about. They're doing it to replace teachers, equivalent to shoddy parents sitting their children down in front of MTV in the 80's and calling it parenting.

      The teachers unions lobbied hard for this bond issue, obviously because the more of their work and responsibility they can shove off to an iPad, the less work they have to do, and the less accountable they can be.

    4. Re:America has gone mad by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      It's a technology "solution" to a social and institutional problem.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    5. Re:America has gone mad by Phroggy · · Score: 1
      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    6. Re:America has gone mad by ikhider · · Score: 1

      Only as Apple in their "good" graces permit, within the parameters they set. Now what if the child wishes to understand the device they are using? That violates the Apple DRM. Hence, that "educational" tool becomes one of oppression.

      --
      "SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
    7. Re:America has gone mad by ikhider · · Score: 1

      Do you really think they are learning those things? Honestly? Enquiring minds should have the right to learn what they want to. The programs and curriculums at school are not always the best. Have you not read 'Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman'? You will know MOST school textbooks are not worth the paper it is printed on. Sure not every kid wants to know how a computer works, but if a kid wants to, she should not be considered a law breaker by wanting to do so WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT DRM IS ABOUT. So get real. Give the kids non-DRM, which SHOULD be the public standard anyway. Where do these idiots come from?

      --
      "SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
  28. Why iPad? by Otome · · Score: 2

    Why iPad? Reading textbooks and answering questions doesn't seem like it requires a premium tablet. Why not a much cheaper Android one?

    1. Re:Why iPad? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Because the most expensive solution is always the best one FOR THE CHILDREN!

      Spending the most money possible shows we really care about our kids. You want to spend less money than the maximum possible? You don't care about our kids!

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:Why iPad? by jsepeta · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the educational materials available for the IOS platform are superior to those available for Android? Or do they even exist?

      The iPad is far more than a television, but it is not the best device for creating content. Our schools should be developing content creators, not just content consumers.

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    3. Re:Why iPad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iPad's are cool. Buying iPads means that the schools in question are now cool as fuck.

  29. Damn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Talk about f**king up big time! Not only are they paying more than retail for (Cr)apple junk, think of the children! All of those poor kids having to use (Cr)apple's inferior technology. They will be at a huge disadvantage whe they graduate and have to deal with the real world, not (Cr)apple's walled garden and reality distortions!

  30. Why.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just why did they go with expensive ipads, instead of a more "made for education" version of some cheap $150 android tablet... Wasting money, you're doing it right.

  31. A 30 year bond to pay for technology? by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 4, Informative

    A 30 year bond to pay for technology that is outmoded in less than 5 years?

    smh

    1. Re:A 30 year bond to pay for technology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A 30 year bond to pay for technology that is outmoded in less than 5 years?

      In California bonds are basically being used to get spending off budget.

    2. Re:A 30 year bond to pay for technology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iPad's were outdated before they were even released.

  32. What sort of creating? by tepples · · Score: 1

    What sort of "creating" are K-12 students expected to do within the scope of their K-12 education that is impossible with applications running on an iPad with Bluetooth keyboard? Even high school programming can be taught on an iPad with Bluetooth keyboard thanks to various policy reversals on Apple's part that allowed Codea and Python for iOS to reach the App Store.

  33. (Not just Apple) stands to benefit by Chas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah. But MOSTLY Apple.
    Sure, the stupid DRM'ed online-only "book" companies too.
    Oh, and all the Apple stores around the area for when the little "darlings" inevitably break something.

    I'd rather this money have gone into things that would actually BENEFIT these kids' education. Like building new schools or staggered school hours to reduce class sizes. Setting tighter metrics (or ANY metrics for that matter) on teachers to weed out the incompetent. Hell, increased police presence to help tone down the gang bangers.

    But nope! Kidz gotsta haz teh bling bling!

    Fucking morons...

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  34. How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How does this affect me in Norway?

    1. Re:How? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      The American tourists you will be seeing in twenty years will be even dumber.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
  35. Care to explain the benefit? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    In all honesty, if I was a parent of a pupil in LA, I'd ask them if they lost their mind and replaced it with an iBrain. Or something similarly locked-down and inflexible.

    What the hell is this supposed to accomplish? What do they think the kids are going to do with those iPads? Learn? Please, don't make me laugh.

    First, these things will be jailbroken before you're done handing them out. It will probably finally give the geeks in class a bit of street cred as they'll be the ones to go to if you want your Pad opened, but I guess every child below the age of 15 should have sufficient tech skills to get this down. Then, every single one of the pads will contain Angry Birds, or whatever the time-killer game du jour is. Apologies if I don't really know what's the latest fad in this area, I don't really follow that trend too closely.

    And now try, just TRY to teach. Because you can't simply do what you usually do when the kids play with their tech toys in class: You can't take it away, they need it for school.

    Yeah.

    Sure.

    Please don't get me wrong, but my first thought when I heard this was: Find out who pushed this through and you know who got bribed to buy the junk.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Care to explain the benefit? by XenithOrb · · Score: 1

      They'll be imprisoned for hacking school equipment.

    2. Re:Care to explain the benefit? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Kids who know about 100 times more about the technology they are handed than the ones that should supervise them? Not only will it be a darwinist experiment in how the smartest kids only don't get caught instead of getting smarter (though it will have a balancing effect akin to Harrison Bergeron), it will further undermine what's left of respect towards teachers because it will clearly show the kids that their teachers don't know jack.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  36. No programmers from LA schools by greggman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most likely this will be considered a computer for each child. Since Apple's app policy disallows programming environments on iOS it's likely that this will lead to many children not being introduced to programming.

    1. Re:No programmers from LA schools by DaphneDiane · · Score: 1

      Um there are tons of programming apps available in the iOS store, including apps designed to teach programming. For example Codea.

      What Apple restricts is easily exporting/importing code written by others into those apps. They have required developers of such apps to disable iTunes file drag and drop input/export as well as other easy ways to move code about. Though stuff like iExplorer can be used to move files and works even if the tablets are not jailbroken.

    2. Re:No programmers from LA schools by jsepeta · · Score: 2

      and how many LA schools teach computer programming? computer programming courses have been pretty much wiped out of the K-12 curriculum nationwide.

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    3. Re:No programmers from LA schools by amannm · · Score: 1

      The Computer Science AP test is written in Java. High schools aren't going to develop any CS education program around iOS.

    4. Re:No programmers from LA schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up and go download Codea off the app store. (Yes, Lua is a real programming language). Also: why is "programming" the be-all and end-all of skill taught at schools? How many Android devs writh their code on the device anyway? Have they ported Eclipse to it yet?

  37. Where's the money coming from? by HockeyPuck · · Score: 1

    LAUSD already barely has money to buy paper and pencils, and now they've found money for this?

    As a Cisco shareholder I thank LAUSD for requiring wireless in every classroom and additional WAN uplinks... etc etc etc...

    The iPADs are a way to get around paying the teachers more. "Ok class, now watch the video on your iPAD..."

    1. Re:Where's the money coming from? by jsepeta · · Score: 1

      school systems generally have a tech budget that's separate from the school maintenance budget or teacher salary budget. since Congress can't say no to putting tech in schools, when they're running low on operating funds, they raid the teachers' salary column (layoffs ensue) in order to keep schools operating. but they rarely touch the tech budget.

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
  38. More waste. by flimflammer · · Score: 1

    Why an iPad? Seriously if they want to go the tablet form factor there are plenty of alternatives that are cheaper and just as bit as good for the job involved.

    This is just another throw-technology-at-the-problem situation that will, yet again, produce no observable benefits. $30 million only for the first 31,000 students. What a joke.

  39. But no Textbooks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is the money for this, but no money for textbooks or education infrastructure repair?

  40. This only helps apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I fail to see how this well help anyone besides apple. at $1000 per device, this doesn't help anyone but apple, and the other companies who got the extra $500 dollars worth of whatever.

    I'm going to guess its someone like pearsons education, known education racketeers.

    As far as spending $30million on education, I could think of far better ways to spend it, such as fix crumbling infastructure, better school lunches(even in my not-ghetto high school, they were utter crap).

    Or even if I was going to spend on technology, I wouldn't spent it on such worthless White iElephants, but in equipped computer labs, full of machines which are self-hosting, equipped with compilers, IDEs, and other tools to teach kids technology.

    Once again, the system gets it wrong, and wastes millions of dollars on what is essentiall a racket, and paid advertising to get more people into apple's sphere of influence.

    I fail to see how this is helping children.

  41. A marketing win for Apple by MpVpRb · · Score: 1

    A loss for the schools and the students

    Yes, teaching children about technology is good

    No, forcing them to all use the same device is bad..especially when it's Apple(the distilled essence of evil)

  42. paper and pencil by fafaforza · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Americans and Russians put people in space with the above. School education was no different. Why do people think a gadget is necessary.

    And the usual defense is, "kids need to be ready for the technological working world." They'll have many, many years to become experts with technology, just through their normal use of it. And if they need to know Excel, they'll take a boring business administration course track like the rest of us.

    Watch us continue going down in international match scores.

    1. Re:paper and pencil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They haven't even have the internet back then nor anything like an itoy. Remember that people that invented the interweb or those itoys didn't have the same tools either.

      Got to wonder if it is needed to have high tech toys in the early education be technologically "literate" at all.

    2. Re:paper and pencil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These kids aren't destined for space. They're destined for prison. Apple's walled garden is good practice for that.

    3. Re:paper and pencil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. The notion that using an iPad will make you an "expert with technology" seems about as far-fetched as the idea that watching TV will make you an electrical engineer.

  43. Its about replacing books not paper and pencils... by perpenso · · Score: 2

    This. Stuffing technology in schools in this manner has no impact on education. Facts actually sugest that pencil&paper and and show exact solution with answer lead to better brains than smart expensive pads which react to touch and simplify radiobutton selection options.

    I think the move to pads has more to do with the move to e-books, and not so much to do with paper and pencils. Also an educational app does not have to implement, say math problems, as multiple choice radio buttons. It can use a graphical mode more like a drawing program and have the kids show their work and their solution in a manner very similar to paper and pencil.

  44. LA Muggers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LA muggers rejoice.

  45. Our tax dollars are work :( by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now they can all play Candy Crusher in class...instead of learning

  46. Steve Jobs' opinion by JazzHarper · · Score: 5, Informative

    “I used to think that technology could help education. I’ve probably spearheaded giving away more computer equipment to schools than anybody else on the planet. But I’ve had to come to the inevitable conclusion that the problem is not one that technology can hope to solve. What’s wrong with education cannot be fixed with technology. No amount of technology will make a dent.”
    -- Steve Jobs, Wired, February 1996

    1. Re:Steve Jobs' opinion by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      Steve was right. The problems in our public schools are not caused by technology or lack thereof and cannot therefore be solved by technology. They are primarily political and economic in nature and must be addressed through reform of both how we organize and how we pay for our schools. Of course, the reforms that would be most effective in improving student outcomes and lowering costs are vehemently opposed by the teachers unions and their allies in the Democratic Party which is a shame because the students who pay the heaviest price for this failure are the very students whom the Democrats and their liberal progressive allies would most like to help, economically disadvantaged children of minority parents attending inner city schools. For example, do you suppose that those few parents in DC that were lucky enough to win vouchers for their children to attend elite private schools, like the one where Obama sends his own children, thanked the President for ending that program and throwing their children back into the worst public school system in the nation, they very one that they had tried so hard to escape, just so that he could appease the public school teachers and their union by doling out political patronage? Parents want vouchers and charter schools because that's what actually works, not more empty promises from the teachers unions and so-called education "activists" linked to the plantation that is the Democratic party.

  47. Photoshop Elements is about $70 by perpenso · · Score: 1

    ... it [Photoshop] comes with a price tag and features Jon Doe will most likely never use.

    Photoshop Elements was about $70 last I looked and it has the features John Doe will actually use.

    1. Re:Photoshop Elements is about $70 by Morpf · · Score: 1

      That is most likely correct, but he wrote about using Photoshop for business, so most likely not Photoshop Elements.

  48. Why not unlocked phones instead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wouldn't it be better to just give them unlocked phones, or phones without the actual phone part, so it might actually make them think "hey, I gotta get me one of dem ipugs mayn". (the students that is)

    You can still do quite a bit with the phones, just with a slightly smaller screen.

    Most apps can usually scale pretty well, which is the good part about applications on things like Apple and Android stores.
    They design them to be semi flexible, more so on Android now because it may be getting Windowing support sooner or later if Samsung actually get their way. I really do hope the Android community take it up, it is SO DAMN USEFUL.
    Having, say, Polaris open next to notes and working together with them is quite handy, or likewise browser and notes.
    The current system is pretty limited at the moment, but it works very well so far. With more work, it could be brilliant, and brilliantly simple at that.
    Plus, it basically NEEDs to happen if there is any push for Android on the desktop, which is being looked in to by some people right now.

    If only it was more Raspberry Pi or Arduinos though, or even other board suppliers.
    Bringing up a generation of the electrical engineers, computer scientists to replace the current population is a very good thing.
    These brilliant minds won't be around forever, they want to retire and have a nice life living in the Bahamas or Hawaii or something. (I certainly have my spot picked out, I am less than a mile away from it on holiday right now at the family holiday flat, the dream man, the dream!)

    I hope they have a lot of plans for edutainment and educational apps.
    Circuit simulators are a dream for prototyping, and Zoombinis was the best edutainment game ever.
    Simple or even complex CAD apps too for technical and hands on classes.
    I feel jealous of kids these days. We only had big black Dells that were somehow slower than my late 90s laptop of 660Mhz of 512MB at the time. (The Dells were like, 175+% of my laptop but were noticeably slower. Still, only bad experience I have had with Dell, my 7 year old PC is still going strong. I say that and get back to it exploding on Monday most likely...)

    Hopefully it will also teach kids to have more respect for hardware in general, I can't count how many times you can see stories about people absolutely wrecking their phones or tablets in the most stupid ways possible.
    Are their fingers made of a substance half out of phase with our universe or something?

    Also, Gambit is cool. Screw Logan, give HIM a movie.

  49. What could go wrong? by cphilo · · Score: 1

    Are these going to be kept at the school? Or home? Have they thought this out? What is to keep an addicted parent from selling the ipad? The curious toddler from taking it apart or dropping it in the bathtub? I don't think will end well.

  50. Would love more info... by Pollux · · Score: 1

    Could you name the schools? Better yet, do you know of any newspaper that reported this?

    (I'm currently a tech director for a ~1000 student school district in Minnesota. Any info on how and why this failed would be really helpful in my dialog with teachers and administrators regarding the issue.)

  51. Re:Its about replacing books not paper and pencils by Morpf · · Score: 1

    If I would want to replace a book, I would use an ebook reader. Does what it's supposed to do (and almost nothing else), can be read in bright sunlight, last quite long on one charge and is way less expensive than a table or notebook.

  52. Local Spending by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

    It's unfortunate that there probably isn't any american made/assembled tablets that they could be politically pressured into buying. (If there are any, let us know...)

    Tablets for kids + employment would be a win/win.

  53. Good Way to Save Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have to applaud the LA school district here. They'll save a lot of money on lunch trays. All the students have to do to turn the crappy iPad into a useful lunch tray is smash the screen (not much use for it anyway) remove the glass and you have yourself a tray so food won't slide around.

    I've also found another redeeming quality to the iPad: you feel better about yourself as a programmer. For any student struggling in programming, all his teacher has to do to give the student more self-confidence is point to the iPad and say, "Hey, at least you didn't design *that* thing."

    Maybe LA could buy some iPhones next. I know, I know: just like an iPad, it's hard to picture how an iPhone can actually help people accomplish tasks. But with a little creativity you can come up with so many ideas: new dodgeballs, gym shoe protectors (you don't want the souls of your gym shoes scratched now, would you?). The possibilities are endless!

    1. Re:Good Way to Save Money by PPH · · Score: 1

      and you have yourself a tray so food won't slide around.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvLoUNlwNBM

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  54. If iPads didn't require idiotic capacitive stylus by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

    I'd say they'd be perfect for students. I used one in college for textbooks and note taking and the only problem I had was with the damned capacitive crayons you need to use to write.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  55. Bus stop robberies at all time high in 2014 by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    Now every robber will know/think that a bus stop of 4 kids yields 4 iPads. Bus stop robberies in LA will rise whether the kids really carry them home or not.

  56. Go M$ instead by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

    I heard a rumour that MS have a few spare tablets floating around. They would probably give them away for tax breaks.

    --
    The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    1. Re:Go M$ instead by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      And they would be better suited for education.

    2. Re:Go M$ instead by jsepeta · · Score: 1

      if the MS tablets had educational content, which they do not, or mature systems for managing thousands of tablets. they also require purchasing a $150 external keyboard. fuck that.

      --
      Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    3. Re:Go M$ instead by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      The reason the keyboard isn't included is because it's not required. The on screen keyboard works just as well as the iPad on screen keyboard.

  57. This is complete and total bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i thought California was broke...ipads......wtf ever

  58. The math doesn't make sense. by musixman · · Score: 1

    I knew iPads where a rip off :) $30000000 / (31000 +640000) = $44.70 per iPad wholesale? No wonder apple is so profitable

    1. Re:The math doesn't make sense. by 91degrees · · Score: 1
      Read the actual article.

      The district's $30 million will only cover the first 31,000 iPads

  59. You get an Ipad! by mea2214 · · Score: 1

    And you get an Ipad! And you get an Ipad! Everyone gets an Ipad!!!!

  60. Re:Its about replacing books not paper and pencils by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

    Currently, those really suck for everything but text and don't do color.

  61. If the point is to replace the textbooks.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A simple ereader would be the tool for the job, be cost effective and it would provide less distractions in class.

    Otherwise, if the point is to provide the students with learning tools, then in those quantities, and at that price, you can get an education spec laptop that could probably survive hiroshima. Has more flexibility and computing power. Runs real programs that the kids will find usefull in real life. And has an actual keyboard because it's a tool rather than a consumer device aimed at browsing, playing games and watching youtube, which is exactly what the students will be doing with them instead of listening to their teachers.

    I still remember when you weren't allowed to use a calculator in math class because teachers expected you to work it out using your brain, a pencil and paper. Insert quote about kids and lawns here.

  62. Every US public school should do same by charlesjo488 · · Score: 0

    Tablets are the new PCs and it will be a significant tool for personal and business life.

  63. Paying more makes it a less terrible job by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    I'm not saying it is all there is too it, but it is a part of it. You'll notice most careers that require both a lot of education and have some crappy component (danger, long hours, poor work environment, etc) pay better than others. Medicine is a good example. It requires a ton of education, and it is pretty stressful/long hours. So no surprise it ends up paying quite well. If it didn't many people would choose something else.

    Most college students can compare two numbers and determine which is larger and decide that teaching is not worth it. Improving the pay scale will improve the interest in the job.

  64. WTF? by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    Apple fanboys, GET OUT OF SCHOOL IT DEPARTMENTS! There are $80-150 tablets that function just as well if not better than an ipad for student-related uses. It's one giant waste of money. Schools should not be buying overpriced luxury editions of any hardware.

  65. And it turns out by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Parental engagement is the biggest predictor of academic success in kids. More than intelligence or economic status even (those are also strong predictors). The #1 most important thing really is parents that care and are engaged in their kid's lives. However that is also something you can't easily fix, you can't just magically buy something that'll make parents more involved.

  66. Also if the idea is eBooks, as it seems to be by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    An eReader in line with the Kindle or Nook would be a much better idea. Why? Well in addition to being easier to read and having a longer battery life, it is something that only does text display. You can't use it to screw around and play Angry Birds or watch Youtube instead of reading your course material.

    I remember it was problem enough when I was in highschool and the TI-82s were the big thing in math and chemistry. Students would play games on them (some of which I wrote) instead of paying attention. I can't imagine how much worse the problem is with a tablet.

  67. No, kids need technology education by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Being proficient with technology is highly important in today's job market. However, that doesn't mean they need a tablet, which is more or less just an expensive eReader and toy. Rather the right answer is for the school to have classrooms with computers for teaching those subjects that need them. I mean think about it: We don't have students go and buy a fume hood, chemical resistant table, large set of glassware, a bunch of chemicals, and so on do we? No, rather we have a chemistry classroom, a room with the necessary equipment for learning chemistry, since properly learning it takes some hands on.

    Same shit for computers. When the students are learning about something that requires a computer to do, they go to the class that has the computers. Not only does this mean the computers aren't a distraction otherwise, but the can be locked down and admin'd to only do what is needed, and are there for use for other students, you don't need one per pupil.

    For that matter, places already DO that shit. I do IT support for a university and part of my job is maintaining some instructional computer labs. We spend about $1000/computer... once every 5-8 years depending on the needs of the classroom. Also a classroom only has 10-50 computers, depending on size (10 for things like electronics labs, 50 for things like Matlab lectures). However we have way more students that use it. One of the 50 seat labs sees probably 200 students per week for a basic programming class. They just aren't all in there at the same time.

    That is the right way to do it. It is cheaper, less distraction to students, easier to administer, and being real computers you can run, well, anything you want on them.

    This is just some stupid Apple fanboy wanting shiny technology for the students.

  68. My two cents by chmod555 · · Score: 1

    I for one see a potential for this initiative. Though I think it would have a better chance of succeeding somewhere like South Korea or Japan; where the children are more respectful of property and appreciative of education. At the very least this can be used to lessen the weight carried by children in text books. If it's even slightly successful other districts might do something similar, maybe experimenting with differing devices and content. In my view this shouldn't be a replacement for how children are taught, but an alternative to carrying heavy books. Personally I would have started by using a cheaper low cost book readers loaded with the material needed for that school or grade, rather than the more expensive iPad. Will the LA School Distinct and Apple succeed, I'm not sure, but it does pave the way to progress that might just catch on with other districts.

  69. Hehe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the Pawnshops and ebay shall runneth over.

  70. And once again, this will lead to price hiking. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Once 640k ipads has locked the city into buying books from apple authorized dealers, prices will hike by atleast 200%, as per se, when something is sold cheaply (hi gilette!)

  71. Cause for concern for Constitutionalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given that Apple is a Cult(TM), surely this is a breach of the Establishment clause?

  72. Re:Its about replacing books not paper and pencils by Pikoro · · Score: 1

    What kind of argument is that?!? Did you have textbooks that had color in them? Color doesn't matter in anything but science books, and even then, it can be worked around. Ebook (e-ink) readers would rock for that sort of application.

    --
    "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
  73. Re:Its about replacing books not paper and pencils by DesertJazz · · Score: 1

    Some of it isn't even eBooks. The students at my school rarely use textbooks anymore due to the curriculum that's been implemented. Most of the time their reference material and assignments is being given to the teachers in pdf form by the curriculum office. Being able to have the kids just look at it on an iPad as opposed to making lots of copies has some value.

    I just wish my district had at least been smart enough to go with iPads. They ended up with some grant and bought Nooks for all of the kids... Great until you realize that B&N is pretty much shutting down with that now or soon. We'll probably have wasted more money in the end by trying to save money!

  74. Re:Its about replacing books not paper and pencils by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

    What kind of argument is that?!? Did you have textbooks that had color in them? Color doesn't matter in anything but science books, and even then, it can be worked around. Ebook (e-ink) readers would rock for that sort of application.

    Yes I did. I recall it being pretty important in science, geography, history, art, driver's ed...

  75. I wonder how many of these willl ... by Skapare · · Score: 1

    ... be used to track where kids go and not by their parents, or worse. Have they done a full background check on all the IT admins and managers to be sure there are no sexual perverts among them?

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  76. Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work in the technology department of a large school district. I am not picking on the iPad by any means, but I truly cannot fathom how a tablet makes sense in the hands of students. They are wonderful devices and I can see their uses for many needs, but when you need to do research papers and type things up, a tablet even with a keyboard just doesn't quite cut it. The ergonomics offered by the device is just not there, and never will be in the current sense of the tablet.

    Likewise, technology is a supplement. One school district laid off a number of teachers to afford doing a 1 to 1 program with Macbook Airs. This I believe was in North Carolina. Now, the MBA with every student thing is already foolish in itself as it's an extremely poor way to utilize money (does a 2nd grader REALLY need an MBA for playing educational flash games? C'mon...), but the fact that they were aiming to utilize technology as some sort of educational babysitter is downright astonishing. Technology in the hands of students is only as powerful as the pilot of the classroom. Without guidance, it's borderline useless.

  77. Must be from the California Budget Surplus.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Must be a huge surplus if EVERY student gets one. (Which includes the illegal aliens)

    Oh, wait....they DON'T have a surplus?! Weird!

  78. Just pay off Apple and DRM content companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not just pay a subsidy to Apple and the DRM content companies in the big-copyright industry, and give the students Kubuntu laptops that are open and usable? This is just training kids to consume DRM content. In an ideal world, companies that get tribute from taxpayers would not happen. But, if they have to have a tribute to exist, just give it to them as a subsidy, and not use their products to teach kids to be consumers rather than creators. Taxpayers should see a line item in the budget that is simply a payoff to big-media and its gatekeepers.

  79. LA District is getting EXACTLY what they ask for by Whatsmynickname · · Score: 1

    The education that the kids are getting is EXACTLY what the parents asked for. As others have posted, the spending policies of CA school districts are dictated by the regional school boards and middle management. The teachers don't really get too much of a say on how the money is spent.

    When you look at who is running these school boards and what policies they have for education, one would think a trained squirrel would come up with better plans. Millions in solar panels anyone (don't give me that shit about sustainability, they DONT HAVE THE FUCKING MONEY TO TAKE FROM THE CLASSROOM TO PAY FOR THIS!)? New pools at an existing school when a brand new one is built a mile or so away? Big screen TVs for the football field? And yet who shows up for school board meetings? Certainly not 99% of the parents who vote the school board clowns in. No, all that attend are either companies who want to extract money from taxpayer's pockets or the sycophants who applaud the clown school board directors like trained seals. And yet when these school board clowns dare show their face for school functions and for election campaigns, the people who actually show up for these events applaud them like trained seals; there is no correlation between idiotic school spending policies and the election of the people who implement them.

    So should there be any surprise we get idiotic iPad giveaways such as this?

  80. Re:Its about replacing books not paper and pencils by perpenso · · Score: 1

    What kind of argument is that?!? Did you have textbooks that had color in them? Color doesn't matter in anything but science books, and even then, it can be worked around. Ebook (e-ink) readers would rock for that sort of application.

    I love my Kindle Paperwhite. I have even used it for reading some programming books. Text and source code are great however even the black and white illustrations suck when zoomed it. YMMV.

    Have you looked at textbooks today? IMHO them make excessive use of colored artwork. I don't think e-readers are a good choice yet, more conventional tablets are it for now.

    Plus, apps are or should be a part of the textbook package.

  81. Looks like a makeup deal to appease Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ever since Microsoft got so many contracts. Somebody somewhere had to dump plenty-O-cash into Apple just to shut the the kid up! These fat cows of welfare breathing companies can't stop inhaling tax dollars faster than they can be extracted. The kids will love them and they will break them, loose them, trade them, and sell them. That is the business angle here, simply a cash grab... Excuse: "Better Learning"

  82. Microsoft should give them the surplues Surfaces by elabs · · Score: 1

    Microsoft should beat them to the punch and give them all free Surface RTs.

  83. Electronics don't replace teachers by Murdoch5 · · Score: 2

    So hide the crap teachers behind the face of expensive tablets? This is going to be a great system!

  84. sure just throw technology at a systemic problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is ridiculous. You have systemic problems in your education system, so instead of addressing them directly, you throw distracting technology at the problem and hope it goes away. Explain to me how this will aid students in any way except allowing them to play video games in class as well as at home.

  85. Yikes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The iPads are just the beginning of the cost -- they will need to upgrade their network infrastructure to handle 30,000 iPads wirelessly connecting, license some kind of MDM (Mobile Device Management) software to have some control over the machines, buy cases, probably carts / charging stations, bluetooth keyboards (in order to be compliant with Common Core / PARCC) apps, third party software, server infrastructure to handle a 1:1 environment, provide professional development / teacher training, etc.

    And these devices will have a useful life of 3, maybe 4 years, in which time they'll have to replace them all. Network infrastructure has a useful life of 5, maybe 10 years (with minor upgrades and annual licensing costs).

    Point is, there are much cheaper options to go 1:1 with devices.