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Microsoft and Google Challenge US Government Gag Orders
First time accepted submitter ace37 writes "Microsoft says it plans to move ahead with a lawsuit filed against the U.S. government in June to affirm the right of businesses to disclose limited information about government demands for data made under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). In separate legal filings, Microsoft and Google challenged the gag order that typically accompanies FISA demands for customer data. The two companies asserted that they have a First Amendment right to publish the total number of FISA requests received and the total number of user accounts covered by such requests."
This type of lawsuit can help regain some of the liberties the government has taken away, or at least some of the transparency. #WishfulThinking
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Particularly Wastebook, stand up and do the same.
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
requested the ability to treat Windows security bug reporters as being in league with terrorists by invoking the Patriot Act.
My head is spinning.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Why can't MS and Google publish "metadata" on the number of FISA requests and number of accounts requested?
If it is good for the goose, it's good for the gander.
Gee, thanx Microsoft and Google, for doing something..
Where were the Champions of Justice when these requests first started coming to you?
I see. It's different now that you've been exposed to the public as cooperating in all this.
I am not saying that this would not have happened without his revelations, but I suspect that the feelings of antipathy that he has helped to stir up about the NSA & government spying have given companies more courage in pushing harder to challenge these things. Maybe for fear of loosing users if they are seen to cave in too easily, maybe because they really do want to do the right thing and feel that the tide might turn and make the effort worth while.
It's obviously a simulated lawsuit.
I can think of more than a few other very large companies, who through the nature of the business they conduct, should be joining Microsoft and Google. This is a good start, but it would be nice to see a whole bunch of companies gang up on the government over this. It might also help the little guys stand up.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
Come on government, it's just metadata about your requests, what's the big deal?
Now that the cat is out of the bag anyhow, everyone could be happy about metadata reporting;
Joe User will be happy that "only" x-thousands of users have info turned over out of x-millions of accounts - "what are the odds it's my account?"
Joe G-Man will be happy that "only" x-thousands of users have info turned over out of x-millions of accounts - "See, we are just doing focused investigations."
Joe Jihad will be happy that "only" x-thousands of users have info turned over out of x-millions of accounts - "what are the odds it's my account?"
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
but I fully expect their challenge to be sufficiently weak enough to reach a judgment and fail. The US Government needs this challenge and judgment for appearances that everything is legal.
Lest anyone believe the two aforementioned companies are doing this out of the goodness of their heart . . . .
The ONLY reason they're doing it is because they're bleeding customers due to the ever increasing lack of trust.
Commenting in the wrong article again?
They are artificial legal constructs, they have no rights
Didn't Microsoft and Google get the memo? Everything involving FISA is maximum top secret, not even congress is allowed to know what the FISA court does.
Also publish the names and badge numbers of the agents making the requests. They may then be less likely to go on fishing expeditions unless there is a damn good reason. Don't publish what they are looking for - just who is looking.
I made up the statistic of course, but I wonder how many people the feds are going after. If it is an absurdly high number such as one sixth of Google's userbase, then we should pester our politicians to get this thing changed. If Google is prevented from disclosing the information, then we might as well assume it is at least a number so high that it embarrasses the government du jour.
Even if they publish metadata on FISA requests, as an individual you still won't know if your account was targeted, only the total number of requests made over the course of the year, etc. A lot of users including me are looking to get off of Gmail or other U.S. based e-mail providers. In my book they can go to hell, your data is not safe with them. They have lost my trust, I have initiated conversations with my friends about it and they also seem to share my concerns and are open to ditching Gmail.
Spreading through their interests and lobbyists, from government and its nets, to your PC at home.
But y'all seem to want it.
Well then.
google and ms pretend to be the voice of their customers. you know the drill.
An alternative solution: first break the gag order, then wait for government attacking in court, and then defend. Attacking for the right to speak seems a looser's position.
on my stay in Room 101.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
So i guess the discussion on weather his leak or not was worthwhile is over eh?
For those that did not know the internet was engineered this way,.. you do now!
-Now kids, how do we engineer the next gen of Internets? Will we let google & microsoft do it, or will we abandon such services & use open technologies?
The cloud is a trap, the easy path is not the best path!
I'd be more impressed if they actually fought the demands for the customer data in the first place rather than wanting to disclose a few non-specific details about how they complied with them.
If you don't want to lose customers than architect your systems accordingly such that customers data remains private and secure even if transferred to third party systems.
Stop intentionally designing everything so that it is depends on and is controlled by your servers.
For example if you want people to use windows phone don't make the only way to control periodic uploading of location to a Microsoft server a configuration option you set on a Microsoft web site.
Google and Microsoft deserve all of the backlash they have coming as far as I'm concerned.
Call me cynical, but it's worth reminding people:
Skype accesses your /etc/passwd password files if your run it on Linux:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=548898
(And also your mozilla bookmarks)
Google cloud print receives everything you print to your printer and yet they don't list it in your privacy control panel as things they know about you.
Likewise they know every site you visit if you logged into any Google service, and the site has adsense or Google's stats (that's most sites) and they don't list those sites either.
Neither company can be trusted to tell the whole story here, neither is a beacon of honesty.
Google, Microsoft and the plethora of others including ATT, Verizon (and all telcos in the USA in particular), Amazon, Apple, Wall-Mart, Sears, Pennys, Staples, OfficeMax (and all other online e-talors), Yahoo, AOL ... the list just keep going on an on and on.
Lets get real simple.
NSA pays each of the above for access to transmissions! Ah Ha. Transmissions. A transaction by "electronic communications". Meta-Data, time-of-flight data, and the actual voice or keystrokes data.
So, all the above are given money, USA taxpayer money, from the NSA, with the USA Department of Treasury blessing, for this 'data'.
This means that NSA (as well as others) IS a Federal Government Agency subsidizing these corporate Companies and at every growing rates and with TAX DOLLARS from the legal citizens of the U.S.A.!
What Tangible or Intangible product is being delivered to the legal citizens of the U.S.A. for the theft of their personal information and identity.
NOTHING!
NSA+CIA+NGA+DIA (Treasury and FBI and DEA and ATF) and not to forget our most beloved "intelligence agency" the Department of HomeLand Security" and its 'National Gropers Agency' the Transportation Security Agency the 'Pistol' lap dog of Janet "Ass As Big As A Planet" Napolitano who is orbiting many universities of the U.S.A. and is desperately seeking a safe landing but not getting any love, pity pity, will not be TIMES MAN OF THE YEAR, hardy har har, this year. Good riddance Janet Planet and all of your ilk in the Federal G'ub'erment Obama Reich.
Napalm, the smell of napalm.
Do you smell the smell of napalm Janet ... Do you? Its coming for you.
Kissy kissy.
Eggs and backy.
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If this is really happening, it may be because executives and/or board members are getting threatened from many angles. Or, they are simply trying to save face with the public, while they continue to work with federal globalist.
Beginning January, 2009, the United States Government became fully transparent. They promised!
Or perhaps not. Think about it.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Why can't MS and Google publish "metadata" on the number of FISA requests and number of accounts requested? If it is good for the goose, it's good for the gander.
Agree... You can challenge a gag order by violating it and then if sued or subjected to criminal prosecution argue that the gag order was void.
In any event, Google and Microsoft should have done this before the Snowden revelations if they really wanted any credibility...
Obama is now the most corrupt US President in History. He attacks political opponents with his IRS and DOJ! He uses the DOJ to attack news journalists who oppose him. He prevents companies from telling the WORLD that the Obama Administration is corrupt and spies on everyone. Still, the US Democrat controlled news media supports government corruption. YOU now live in CHINA where there are no freedoms and the press supports government corruption.