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Feds Seek Prison For Man Who Taught How To Beat a Polygraph
George Maschke writes "In a case with serious First Amendment implications, McClatchy reports that federal prosecutors are seeking a prison sentence for Chad Dixon of Indiana, who committed the crime of teaching people how to pass or beat a lie detector test. Some of his students passed polygraphs and went on to be hired by federal agencies. A pleading filed by prosecutors all but admits that polygraph tests can be beaten. The feds have also raided and seized business records from Doug Williams, who has taught many more people how to pass or beat a polygraph over the past 30 years. Williams has not been criminally charged. I'm a co-founder of AntiPolygraph.org (we suggest using Tor to access the site) a non-profit, public interest website dedicated to exposing and ending waste, fraud, and abuse associated with the use of lie detectors. We offer a free e-book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (1 mb PDF) that explains how to pass a polygraph (whether or not one is telling the truth). We make this information available not to help liars beat the system, but to provide truthful people with a means of protecting themselves against the high risk of a false positive outcome. As McClatchy reported last week, I received suspicious e-mails earlier this year that seemed like an attempted entrapment. Rather than trying to criminalize teaching people how to pass a polygraph, isn't it time our government re-evaluated its reliance on the pseudoscience of polygraphy?"
That's like going to jail for teaching people where to hit their head to pass a phrenology test...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I am certain this was up a few weeks ago.
The purpose of the First Amendment is to give people the freedom to say as many things as they want as long as nobody listens.
In their eyes, the efficacy of lie detectors is an article of faith. So he's been wilfully transgressing against the FBI's religion. and so He's a heretic! And therefore the FBI is justified and righ! HE MUST GO DOWN!
i wonder if they will polygraph him?
What good is tor with PRISM and upstream? Really, its like they can connect the dots almost instantly about who is visiting what when you can essentially sniff ALL of the backbone traffic of the internet.
what's the point? i keep reading that polygraph tests for criminal cases aren't accurate. i thought US companies did background checks like asking neighbors and previous employers for interviews. plus can't employers look at criminal records and public court documents? just asking. oh yeah, i think some US employers do drug testing too.
If it is illegal to teach people to avoid a polygraph, what about teaching other skills that can evade police detection. Is teaching encryption illegal? Is discussing mobile phone tracking illegal? Costuming and disguise?
I think that it only makes sense to criminalize aiding a SPECIFIC crime, not providing tools that could be used to commit a crime
This is really surprising and depressing to me. I don't even see the crime. Since when is it generally illegal to lie, or to lie well? What's next - imprison people who teach martial arts? Or shooting? Or driving (think getaway cars)? Or better, people who teach writing (which can be used for teaching nearly anything)! Down with knowledge! Bring back trial by fire!
Stephan
... that there's no such thing as a working lie detector.
Surely you're not trying to tell us that there's some government somewhere that believes otherwise and actually uses the things??
All lies!
"Polygraph tests are 20th-century witchcraft." --Senator Sam Ervin
"Love is a familiar; Love is a devil: there is no evil angel but Love." --William Shakespeare ('Love's Labors Lost')
Is this the same guy that was on /. a few weeks ago because he taught undercover agents who *told* him they were planning to commit a crime with the information he gave them? A /. lawyer indicated that helping someone who told you they were going to commit a crime, is a crime. That makes sense to me. If I'm driving my taxi and some pleasant old lady gets in and asks to be driven to the bank so she can rob it, I'm going to get out of the car and call the police, not drive her to the bank. Does that count as a car analogy?
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
Coming soon in a related story a man has been charged for telling people not to look up at security cameras.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
Good that Obama is out to kill some Syrian people. Can you imagine what would happen to Democracy and Right and Good if he did not do that???
Back in grad school, we were told that only the psychotic could pass a polygraph test. Perhaps failing should be considered passing...
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/polygraphs_and_the_national_labs_dangerous_ruse_undermines_national_securit/
...richie - It is a good day to code.
Soon enough it will be irrelevant soon enough when they switch to using fMRIs.
Polygraphs are one reason I left classified work for greener pastures. I believe they are nearly worthless, used just as much to harass as anything else.
In my last classified job, my employer hired a new security officer. After several months on the job she was sent for her polygraph. She returned the same day, the test unadministered because she had a heart problem. The problem was manageable, but it made it impossible for an "accurate" test. Despite this she remained in her job. With access to far more material than myself and others--sensitive material covering many programs--she was excused. Obviously the intelligence community doesn't believe in polygraphs either. I'm glad to be out of that world.
"Love is a familiar; Love is a devil: there is no evil angel but Love." --William Shakespeare ('Love's Labors Lost')
the only real law that has existed since civilization started, the law that our whole "legal" and "justice" system is a facade to disguise
"Don't do anything those with more power than you disapprove of"
You break that law and you are punished. In more primitive times the result was a bludgeoning or stabbing. In our more refined age it is destruction of livelihood and reputation and relegation to being impoverished, depended, and insignificant for the rest of your life.
And this is why the people with power hate anonymity so much. Because it allows the powerless to act without fear.
As has been discussed earlier, a polygraph test is a tool in the same toolkit as the War o(n|f) Terror and the TSA security theatre. Its effectiveness comes from nothing but the intimidation factor - if the belief that your lies will be "scientifically" detected persists, you can get the victim to blurt out all his secrets by simply telling them that you "know" they're lying. They will feel like they've lost even the privacy of their own thoughts, and with that predicament it can seem pretty futile to resist giving in.
That psychological end state is pretty much what torturing during interrogations used to accomplish, until they realized that people will say anything they think their captors want to hear. With this technique that issue is solved, since the victim believes their captors will know whether he's telling the truth.
Obviously, this means that the actual effectiveness of lie detectors must be made, and kept, a widely-believed "fact", and people who express doubts (or provide proof) must be discredited. After all, they were trying to cheat the Establishment, so they must be evil, immoral, scheming criminals who just lie for personal gain.
[SHOW SOME LENIENCY TOWARDS
1 Survive
2 Procreate
3 Invaders must die
4 Profit
5 Don't do anything those with more power than you disapprove of
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
I heard of one guy putting a tack in his shoe before the polygraph and during the interview he'd press a toe into the tack totally messing up any readings.
That's what this really is.
Before the Internet, information was whatever was decided the they'd would give to the public to appease us. It was all carefully planned, controlled and manipulated to advance their agenda. Now, we're able to seek out and share information for ourselves at speeds never before possible.
The will of the people is quite demonstrably dissemination. It's not that they ever gave two shits about the will of the public, but they're no longer able to manipulate the flow of information to make it look like they do.
The scientific community needs to rally to his cause. Polygraphs are junk science and haven't been admissible to a court of law in many years. Teaching someone how to beat a Polygraph is no more morally wrong than teaching someone how to beat any other form of junk science. Science should be revered for what it is, and attempts to pass junk off should be demonized. What's next, jailing someone for teaching you how to fool an Astrologist?
I have no problem with the government conducting proper background checks (ala Snowden etc), but relying on junk science like the polygraph hasn't helped them on actual real spies like Ames etc..
Obama and Holder have made a mess of the US Constitution. This DOJ is more corrupt than the Chicago Mob ... oh, the Chicago Mob leader heads the US.
Nobody believes that polygraphs actually work reliably. They are used because people aren't positive they don't work. So if you're doing something shady, and you have to get a poly,and you hear that they work only 30% of the time, that's still a higher percentage of potentially getting caught than if they don't poly.
Basically it's a way to remove some fraction of the bad actors from the pool (the ones who are afraid). You, of course, also lose some fraction of the good actors (due to false positives), but in the security business, you'd rather have false positives than false negatives, because the consequence of a loss is high, while the consequences of not having a particular person working is low.
For the vast majority of work involving poly exams, there are lots and lots of people available who are competent and skilled at the work. Losing 10% of them, or even 20-30% of them, to false positives on the test is not a problem.
And the pathological bad actor who can pass the poly will still get through. But hey, this is /., we all know about security in depth, right? You don't depend on just the poly as your sole evaluation method. The fact that your $50k/yr employee is spending $10k a week at the local strip club would raise suspicions, for instance. The fact that his grandfather was named Lenin T. Marx is another clue.
In summary, nobody cares that the poly is inaccurate. It's a tool, just like the car salesman leaving you in the office while he leaves to "take this to my manager"
Translation: please don't arrest us for exercising our First Amendment rights.
Would find the defendant not guilty (despite the guilty plea), and jail the prosecutor for contempt.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
How about we charge the federal prosecutors with intent to deceive.
The Good Guys/Gals don't have any better way of finding out who the bad guys/gals are?
Ya, right.
Are teachers culpable for teaching people to write, if some of those people become bank-robbers who silently pass written notes to bank tellers giving them instructions on how to co-operate with the heist? If an illiterate bank robber came to you and said "please write me out a note detailing how the bank employee must act when I go rob the bank in a few days", then clearly you can be charged as an accessory to the crime when it finally happens.
For the person providing the service or teaching the skill to be criminally culpable, that person has to KNOW the sole purpose of the teaching was to enable a future criminal enterprise. Educating a criminal/would-be criminal is NEVER a crime in and of itself. Even a teacher who educated his services by saying "an educated criminal is likely to be a more successful criminal" commits no crime, so long as the educational service provided is general, and does not relate to some intended criminal act!
But America no longer operates to the principle of Law. America operates to the principle of power alone, and sometimes this means presenting a completely non-legal case to a jury, and asking them to become a 'lynch' mob. Black men accused of rape in a "he said, she said" situation face this ALL the time. The concept of "beyond a reasonable doubt" becomes a complete joke in many American trials.
Lie detectors are an utter joke. The ONLY class of people you would want to identify with such devices are the EXACT same class who always know the trivial methods used to defeat such pseudo-scientific nonsense. Controlling your emotions, and using 'false memories' to create the correct physical responses are easily learnt skills, but also occur naturally to the most dangerous types of Humans.
So why such a prosecution. Well, it follows the general principle of a police state, where those not under the control of the state are seen and treated as enemies of the state. Then, it also serves the idea that lie detectors are legitimate, and should enjoy a wider roll-out. Then, it also serves to groom the sheeple to expect all kinds of obscene tests by the state to ensure they are good little sheeple.
Scanners at airports (far worse than those cancer causing foot-X-ray machines wage slaves were 'persuaded' to use in US shoe shops). The fake bomb detectors Tony Blair and the UK government shipped out to so-many of their ex-colonies, to allow the despotic regimes there to have an excuse to label ANY target as a 'terrorist' fall into the same category.
When the state wants to strap you to a device, wave a device around your body, or dip a device into your drink to CONFIRM you are one of the good sheeple, you had better get very, very, very scared about your immediate future, and the future of your nation. All too often in our history, whole populations have lived in mortal terror of their masters. Today, the technology available to the monsters that rule you is unthinkable in power and potential compared to any past time. As these monsters accumulate and centralise power, they judge their success as positive feedback, and seek to radically increase the rate of the same in the future.
Team Obama is the puppet face of the greatest evil Mankind has ever faced (did they feel one twinge of conscience when they gassed unthinkable numbers of Iranians when Reagan was the puppet, or when they gassed Syrians far more recently). You sheeple, not matter how much you learn, still pathetically try to convince yourselves that your side are the 'good guys'. America's rulers are the blackest evil imaginable. Yet NSA partner Bill Gates can work with Rupert "Goebbels" Murdoch to create a pedophiles dream, the inBloom database on which EVERY aspect of your children's lives are to be recorded and made available to every flavour of monster, AND YOU DO *NOTHING*.
Penn and Teller did this on TV... So, we also need to lock them up as well as their entire TV show staff and everyone who distributed the show (including truck drivers of the DVD). Then we need to confiscate all copies of the show and destroy them.
I believe they have conspiracy laws on the books in regards to aiding applicants to certain federal jobs CHEAT the process; which includes helping people cheat the FBI entrance exam or gaming the polygraph or other aspects of the process. Probably fits under the rather broad laws on fraud as well (which still haven't been applied to the credit agencies that caused the depression.)
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
They must be insane. Am I being punked? I am, aren't I?
The test has been establish as something of an illusion for some time....nothing more than a sleight of hand, a parlor trick, which fails as often as it succeeds.
I am John Hurt.
Seriously, the writing has been on the wall for a long time. I have told everyone who will listen over the years that America is systematically removing our rights..
The fact is, most people just do not care. They have an iPhone and the rest is icing on the iCake.
You hear it all the time from the young crowd. I don't care, I have nothing to hide.
Not to mentions the "they hate our freedom" morons who say, if you don't like, leave.
Well, I did leave. 6 years ago to a country that is, ironically much more free than America. Germany. Sure, it is hard to have a gun. But, on the other hand, the murder rate is really low and it doesn't have more than 6% of the population in jail.
Of course, I still have hope for America. It just gets lower as time passes. Hey, when the revolution starts, I will be on the first boat over. (Dear NSA, I don't mean that at all, I am on your side, you are best!)
It's the one-way mirror in the room where the test is being administered.
I've been through a polygraph for something *very* serious. Some of our crypto just went "*poof*", and everyone was quite concerned. Understandably, so, too! Crypto is *not* supposed to just go "*poof*".
We were all asked if we wanted to take a polygraph, and I gladly volunteered, since it really did just vanish. (We later determined that the tape in question had been included in the daily destruction by mistake.) But even volunteering for it, a polygraph is a scary thing if you know nothing about it.
So I did my research. And yes, those websites were all visited and read, in detail. During the test, I tried some of the techniques that were taught, and sure enough, they work! You can make that machine sing "Bad Romance" as good as Lady Gaga. I thought it was kinda fun, actually?
But see, the machine was just to butter you up. If you were up to no good, the machine would make you nervous, even if you DO know how to manipulate it. And in the end, it doesn't matter.
There's a one-way mirror, and behind that mirror is a team of 3-4 people who are all very good at reading human beings. And they have thermographic cameras that measure your facial temperature to help them in reading those who are good at controlling their body language.
At the end of the day, a polygraph is just a tool that makes someone's job that much easier. It's just one tool in a chest of many, because no single tool alone is enough to get to the truth of the matter.
My own investigation was with NIS, who are very good at what they do, and very professional. They were after the truth, not a conviction. So I have no complaints about how *I* was treated. But if someone is looking for a victim, then having this information just might save your life.
[End Of Line]
I thought polygraphs usually aren't admissible as evidence in court anyways. (In most countries. YMMV.) So what harm is done there?
Secondly, there's much better technology that has made polygraphs obsolete. FMRI can detect the portion of the brain that lights up when somebody is lying. Only thing going against it currently is that such devices aren't readily portable.
So why bother doing something so stupid as trying to imprison somebody for "hacking" a technology which can't be used to administer law and also has a much more effective and reliable replacement? Seriously, anyone got a good explanation?
One thing to keep in mind about the takeover of Freedom Hosting and injection of malicious code by LE was that they continued to operate Freedom Hosting for a while. That means that LE freely hosted about, by the best estimates, half of all the child porn .onion sites in the world for a day or two.
It scares me when LE is willing to disseminate child pornography or, as in this case, trample all over the whole notion of free speech in the pursuit of their questionable goals.
I say "questionable" because, well, how can their goals be legitimate if they're willing to do such evil things to achieve them?
Pay me $500 and I will teach you how to defeat duplicate posts.
He's not going to jail for teaching people how to beat polygraph; he's going to jail for conspiring to defraud. There are any number of entirely legal actions you can take that become illegal when you use them to commit crimes. Want to do sleight of hand? Lovely. Want to use sleight of hand to defraud someone? A crime. And yes, teaching someone sleight of hand for the _specific purpose of defrauding people_ becomes conspiracy to commit fraud.
or rather, Government Agents are stupid!!!
They use these "tests" against scientists and engineers, who are educated and trained to learn HOW TO LEARN, and who have a general curiosity about the world and everything in it (including polygraph "tests"). These scientists and engineers know that the polygraph is junk science.
How stupid can you get?
The current US Government is among the most corrupt governments throughout all history. They are possibly the very most corrupt, excepting only those that follow them.
My psychology professor taught us all how to beat lie detectors, are they going to arrest him too? Sheesh, I'll just tell you what he told us:
1) The polygraph measures a stress response in your body. And the idea is, you are more stressed when you tell a lie.
2) But, everyone is different, so in order to tell what is stressful for you, they need to determine a baseline. So during the polygraph they will ask you some really easy questions, like what is your name.
3) For some physiological reason, if you curl your toes it produces a measurable stress response.
4) So whenever they ask an easy question, curl your toes. They won't be able to get an accurate baseline reading.
No guarantees on whether that will work. He mentioned that a good polygraph operator will be able to tell that you are messing with him, even if he can't tell which answers were lies.
Lie detectors have the inherent problem in that they can be duped by one who has been schooled to do so. But there is one science that is 100% accurate and relies solely on something that the subject cannot hide: Their skull! Using the science of Phrenology, a trained scientist, a scientist, mind you, not simply some quack wearing a tie, can measure the subject's skull in detail and provide a 100% accurate assessment of the subject's reliability, honesty, intelligence, and propensity to commit crimes or to engage in perverse behaviours, as well as many more important traits that one must consider when entrusting an employee or government official charged with protecting our families and making our nation safe!
Be safe! Rely on Phrenology!
The actual point of science is to properly point out both false positives and false negatives of any test so we can get to actual truth if possible by another method.
To be banned or imprisoned for pointing out the failure of science is deeply troubling for a country founded on liberty & freedom.
Considering they are inadmissible in court, I don't see how they can legally have any basis for which to imprison this guy. He's teaching people how to technically do "well" not "cheat" anyways, but either way, polygraphs aren't a legal means for incarcerating anyone, therefore shouldn't that also mean there's no legal basis for them to jail him?
Not withstanding the obvious " witch trial " jokes that should follow here, TFA states charges of ... “obstruction of an agency proceeding” charge, ... and ... a [wire fraud] “scheme” that helped applicants get jobs by making “false and fraudulent statements.” Dixon could have faced up to five years in prison for the obstruction charge and up to 20 years for the wire fraud charge.
If prosecutors can make these charges stand with a jury, I have 99 Senators ( NJ is short 1) I a couple of hundred others who are obstructing agency proceedings through "sequester", and have used various wires, internet, television and other media to perpetrate “scheme[s]” that helped applicants get jobs by making “false and fraudulent statements.”
Where are all the posts from the people who are always on here talking about how the US is the most free country in the world? Isn't this a violation of a number of constitutional rights (freedom of speech and all)?
I find this funny, since polygraph test results aren't even admissible in court in many states In fact, the U.S. supreme court itself has discouraged the admission of polygraph "evidence" in court cases. I would think that fact by itself would put a big hole in the feds ability to prosecute this guy.
I'm waiting for the day when truth content can be determined by a quick remote neural scan, integrated into a variety of appliances. This is one of the premises of the anime Psycho-Pass. It would also cut down on gun crime, since guns, like in the show, would only fire when pointed at one who has committed a crime, or is psychologically on the verge of committing one.
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
I dunno about this. I read part of the indictment, He isn't being prosecuted for disseminating information, which would be problematical. He's being charged with knowingly assisting people in providing false information to the authorities, approx. hard to see how this is an example of an overreaching Federal govt since there are tons of things you could do to be charged with that crime, if it is indeed a crime.
First , is it a crime to attempt to device a lie detector test and if not, to otherwise provide false information to the govt. during screening for employment or as a parolee? Anyone know the answer to either of those questions?
Secondly, if either of the above are true, can tax attorneys (or anyone else) lawfully guide their clients in how to unlawfully avoid taxes ?
I understand that merely giving information to someone on how they might commit a crime should not itself be a crime. That's going too far and criminalizing speech and knowledge. If we let that be the standard then there's nothing the government can't criminalize.
OTOH is that all this guy was doing? Isn't he directly implicated here? Didn't he lay out the plans for how the casino security works to people he knew were thieves? Is he not a knowing part of the heist?
I am up in the air I guess. I can see both sides. Clearly, this guy has a resentment of the government (not a crime, thank you) and a willingness to see its necessary functions impeded. But that's not a crime either.
Huh. I am stumped. I see a lot of flamey posts and arguments but not much light.
I think it hinges on what the implications are for 1st amendment rights. He wasn't a govt. ermployee. He wasn't violating an oath overseen by law. Sure, he's filth, but it's not about him, it's about all of us and what we might be charged with by some future DA with a reputation to make for himself.
I see he plead guilty. That could just mean the prosecutors brought so much pressure in the form of other charges (over charging) that he decided to cut a deal (they are asking for the least amount of time).
Just... dunno. Hung jury.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/08/17/1144248/feds-target-instructors-of-polygraph-beating-methods
not quite...it was a sting operation the FBI set up...they posed as people who were guilty admittedly who were looking for 'help passing' the polygraph.
see, there is no way to teach someone to 'pass' the polygraph because it's impossible to pass OR fail an innacurate, non-scientific test.
essentially this guy has a polygraph, and hooks you up to it and lets you see it work...
they can teach you to control your reactions and how to notice 'control questions' but that still isn't 'passing' or 'failing' as everything is still up to *the interpretation of the polygrapher*
polygraph results are never shown, because they are useless data and showing it in court would expose that
polygrapher interpretation is the last element in the equation...and that takes something that *was* pseudoscience at best and puts it entirely in the fiction section...
if It was my daughter...and they caught a guy who they think raped her, and he was dumb enough to get tricked by the polygraph to admit his guilt...i'd say give it to him...
I say the polygraph should be used in extreme interrogation situations only...situations where investigators have a good reason to believe the suspect is dumb enough to get fooled by the polygraph
they are out there but not many...
Thank you Dave Raggett
If any device really was a "lie detector" then it would not be possible to trick or defeat it - either you're telling the truth or lying and the device will determine which one you're doing . Trying to supress information on how to defeat a polygraph "test" is therefore a tacit admission that the emperor has no clothes.
The man isn't being prosecuted for teaching somebody to beat the lie detector test. The man is being prosecuted for ENCOURAGING a person to lie to the person giving the government job lie detector test.
Lying in an application for employment with the government is a crime. Encouraging that lying makes the person doing the encouraging an accomplice.
If you want to stay on the right side of the law, teach people the theory and practice of beating the lie detector test, but throw them right out of your office the very second they start to talk about any particular lie detector test. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Learn from the hydroponic gardening stores!
My high school friend Ricky Ames never thought much of polygraph tests. In 1986 and '91, he passed two of them while spying for the Russians.
I once learned to self-regulate my brain waves (EEG), or at least to produce alpha waves at will. The autonomic nervous system responses measured in polygraph tests (chiefly GSR, pulse rate and breathing rhythm) would be easier to self-regulate than brainwaves. Try it at home.
Instead of 10 years of yoga (see, for example, Delmonte, M. M. (1984). Electrocortical activity and related phenomena associated with meditation practice: A literature review. International Journal of Neuroscience, 24, pp. 217-231), instead search on "GSR biofeedback and relaxation" and check out the GSR2 Biofeedback Relaxation System for $70 on Amazon.
Think of something you forgot to do, get a genuine pang of guilt, and watch the response. Now you know where you don't want your mind to go. If you can't convince yourself in your heart that you are a good little girl/boy (good that you forgot), and you can't zen out on pleasant scenes, then do mental arithmetic.
A lot of people in physiology have measured all these responses. I have no experience with polygraph testing per se. As the CIA found out with Ricky Ames, the tests are hard to do well. Still, I bet that if I had all the time in the world -- and some experience as an actor and toastmaster -- I could surprise and trick out most test evaders. But, in routine use with routine false positives, where's any justice for the victims of fallible technology and foolish policy?
Many are destined 2reason wrongly; others, not 2reason at all; and others, to persecute those who do reason. Voltaire
One who can read, one who can count, one to keep an eye on the two intellectuals.
With people like this in power, the US's scientific and engineering dominance will remain unstoppable!
http://rocknerd.co.uk
“Properly understood, his crimes encompass inviting total strangers into a scheme to defraud and obstruct, and joining in their criminal enterprises,” prosecutors wrote. “Dixon adopted a mercenary-like attitude towards the nation’s border security and the security of the nation’s secrets. He also acted with callous disregard for the most vulnerable in society – our children. . . . Dixon’s misconduct was purposeful, dangerous and it requires punishment.”
Apparently if you tell someone who claims their brother or cousin is a drug dealer, to tell their potential LEO boss that you don't know what your brother does, is a crime against children!
Will they go after George Costanza next?
Polygraphs are in the same category as the desklamp in your face during an interrogation, or for that matter, the rubber hose. They all simply stress you out hoping you will crack under pressure. And some people do, so they keep using it.
how flagrantly does a lawsuit have to violate every principle of law before it's immediately ejected from consideration? how is this even being considered in the legal system?
this is CLEARLY first ammendment. so what the hell are they pressing charges with?
Read the actual pleading...this is comedy gold:
"POSITION OF THE UNITED STATES
WITH RESPECT TO SENTENCING
The United States of America, by and through undersigned counsel, in accord with Title
18, United States Code, Section 3553(a) and the United States Sentencing Commission,
Guidelines Manual ("Guidelines") ' 6A1.2 (Nov. 2008), respectfully submits this Position of the
United States With Respect to Sentencing of defendant Chad Dixon ("Dixon" or "defendant").
Defendant Chad Dixon is before the Court for sentencing, having admitted to a career of
criminal deceit. In exchange for $1,000 per day and more, Dixon trained individuals to "beat"
polygraph examinations in order to conceal material lies. Dixon trained seven applicants for
federal law enforcement positions on how to use polygraph countermeasures to defeat
employment polygraph tests, knowing that in some cases they intended to conceal criminal
activity that would disqualify them for the job. If potentially compromising federal law
enforcement officers were not enough, Dixon trained convicted sex offenders how to beat
polygraph examinations they were required to take as a condition of probation for crimes
including indecent sexual contact with minors, transportation of child pornography, and sexual
abuse of minors. Brazenly, Dixon trained members of the intelligence community, who took
polygraph tests while seeking to obtain or retain security clearances, without regard for the threats
his actions and those persons potentially posed to national security. Between 70 and 100
individuals across the United States, who discovered Dixon through his sophisticated Internet site,
received Dixon's one-on-one, confidential, and customized polygraph countermeasures training in
order to conceal lies during polygraph examinations."
Read it closely. By sustaining (whatever the proper legal term is) this pleading, the prosecutors are getting the courts to do a 2 for 1 for them: 1.) they get a 'bad guy' off the streets (responsible for helping child pornographers, etc. potentially cover up their crimes), and 2.) (this is where is gets really, really good...and you need to think like a DA to get this one past the judges) it establishes, as a court precedent, that purposefully evading a polygraph test (however 'purposefully' is defined) is illegal; what more, IT ESTABLISHES AS A COURT PRECEDENT THAT THE FUCKING POLYGRAPH TEST, A PIECE OF SHIT TEST RIDDLED WITH FALSE POSITIVES AND FALSE NEGATIVES, AND AS RELIABLE AS A GODDAMN HOROSCOPE, AS A VALID TEST FOR DETERMINING SOMEONE'S GUILT! ACCEPTING THIS TRAVESTY, THIS INJUSTICE, THIS VERBAL REFUSE IS TANTAMOUNT TO ACCEPTING A BLOODY PSYCHIC'S TESTIMONY IN COURT!
I am John Hurt.
Actually phlogiston is a really good theory to bring up to describe how science works, especially in terms of chemistry and metallurgy. The oxidation of iron is where phlogiston falls over and such experiments were one of the indicators that oxygen exists and that there is more than one kind of gas.
So it's a theory, which was then tested at length and found to be empirically correct most of the time, but then a condition where it failed inspired an improved theory.
So think about that the next time you want to make fun of phlogiston - you and I have probably only heard of it because it's a damn good example of scientific progress at work so it keeps getting repeated to show how far we've gone. Put up an idea, test it to destruction, and when it fails, adopt a new one almost immediately when that provides a better explanation. That's not pseudoscience - it's the real thing at work - and we only make fun of it today because it seems so damn obvious to us that oxygen exists.
If one of their, say, law students, attended the school specifically to learn how to break the law and get away with it?
For some reason that is utterly beyond me people are paying to use "web accelerators" that carry https traffic and users are feeding them the certs these devices require to see all that traffic as if it was in the clear. People are buying perfect man in the middle attack devices in the name of convenience and rendering https almost entirely pointless. It would be an ideal NSA plot if they had their shit together enough to do such a thing, and it's possible that they have managed to compromise some of these devices or that some foreign agency will do it if it hasn't been done already. Perhaps organised crime will get there first.
I get it.. going to the site is sort of like the incident in the story, just talking about polygraphs. But there's no need to pretend that people will get arrested for visiting a website about polygraphs (some other sites, like porn, may be different).
Instead of putting this dude in prison, they should learn from him to improve their lie detection technologies.
Not quite. Per the article he:
advised one undercover agent posing as the brother of a violent Mexican drug trafficker to withhold details during a polygraph for a Customs and Border Protection job, prosecutors said.
Which is a crime. He is free to say what he wants but not free from the consequences; which is why I find the whole First Amendment arguement nothing but the defense's attempt to spin in their client's favor.
The usefulness of polygraphs is irrelevant to wether or not he committed a crime.
He "advised" them. So now merely giving your opinion about something dodgy is itself a crime. Welcome to post-9/11 America! Look, the point is not so much that he didn't do something technically illegal - hell, as we know, most people commit 3 federal felonies a day. The problem is that they're prosecuting him as if he were an evil crime lord, when all he did was give an opinion to a potential criminal on how to beat a scientifically debunked pseudo-technology. Not only was he not contemplating committing a crime, the guy he "advised" wasn't either, he was a fake, a government agent. That's pretty removed from any actual crime, and in fact no actual crime ever occurred, but they're going after him like he's Al Capone.
I guarantee you, if you yourself were to have a long conversation with a trained undercover agent, that agent could eventual steer the conversation so that somewhere along the way you would say something just as "criminal" as what the guy in the article is accused of. A passing remark, a random thought, whatever... Technically, it would be illegal, at least under their interpretation of the law. And that's the real problem, we should not be criminalizing conversation. There are all kinds of ways that people enable other people to potentially break the law all the time, think about it... Radar detectors, herbal urinalysis cleansers, hell, what about that video on YouTube that advises everyone to never talk to the police? Should the lawyer who made that video be arrested? What about a driver who flashes his lights to warn those going the other way about a speed trap? I believe the Supreme Court actually said that one was legal, but it sure seems like there's not much distance between that and what the defendant in this case did.
Look, I'm not saying the guy in TFA isn't guilty, that would be kinda difficult since guilty is how he plead (although many innocent people accept plea agreements, but that's a whole separate rant). But the manner in which they went after him, and the demand for jail time, is very telling. It's symptomatic of the depths to which America has fallen to, one more step along the way to a true police state. At some point we have to step back and really look at what we have become. Torture, "rendition", corporate gag orders, forfeiture laws, every citizen under surveillance all the time, and whistle-blowers are traitors. It all adds up to a damn ugly picture. This is not what the USA is supposed to look like, and once upon a time it didn't. Believe it or not, at one time we truly were seen as that proverbial "shining beacon of freedom" to the rest of the world. Once upon a time. What the fuck happened???
This is curious. For some reason, I was under the impression that lie detector results are not permissible as testimony in court cases precisely because of their unreliability. So why is this a big deal?
One millibit pdf, that must be a lie!
The phrase, "most corrupt throughout all history," doesn't even qualify as hyperbole. You literally have no idea what corruption looks like. There's a saturation point where every single government functionary expects his little bit of baksheesh -- and then it really starts to get bad. There is no outrage, it's just the way things work. You'd be amazed at how stable societies like this can be.
It was about time somebody stood up for their rights.
I'ts not fair that people getting away with beating the crap out of the poor polygraphs !!!
-- 29A the number of the Beast
The feds sure are finding every reason but almost bankrupting the global economy to put people in prison nowadays.
2. A cursory look at the complaint reveals that the cause of action isn't, as implied, a general act of teaching individuals how to fool polygraphs. The allegation is that the teaching was performed in specific cases related to conspiring to suborn perjury or to fraudulently obtain security clearance. These are more specific charges and have less to do with the involvement of a polygraph than the the act of assisting an individual in committing a crime.
3. This case appears to be little more than a filed complaint. Anybody can file charges for anything, but there's no analysis here re:whether the charges are frivolous, likely to be dismissed, or have a good chance of reaching trial. That's the context one needs to understand what is really going on here. Instead, we get an advertisement that fluffs up the facts.
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