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German Federal Police Helicopter Circles US Consulate
New submitter mwissel writes "The German Federal Police ('Bundespolizei') had sent out an helicopter in late August to fly over the U.S. consulate in Frankfurt and take photos from only 60 meters height — reportedly to search for spy antennae and other espionage related equipment on the building rooftops. A government spokesmen more or less confirmed the purpose of the flight, and it is said that Merkel's chief of staff, Ronald Pofalla, gave the order. This is remarkable, because Pofalla so far stood out with a very U.S.-friendly attitude in the debate around NSA surveillance programs. There was, of course, no word about any findings. It also remains unclear whether this was just plain provocation or a PR-stunt for the upcoming federal elections in Germany on September 22nd."
This is remarkable, because Pofalla so far stood out with a very U.S.-friendly attitude in the debate around NSA surveillance programs.
I.e. no problem, so long as we aren't spying on him.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Germany has a very advanced military, it could certainly get photos of the roof of a building more covertly than sending out a helicopter and making a public statement.
They broke some China.
Spying indeed. They were just trying to help.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
... just a PR stunt or an investigation of espionage, might I suggest dropping 60" frankfurters on Frankfurt? Either way it's a win!
Ich bin hungrig. :(
The Art of Diplomacy, it is said,
is saying "nice doggy" whilst you look about
for a large enough stick.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Here it is :
The US went too far with its abusive stance toward the rest of the world,
which finally decided it had had enough.
Europe, Russia, and China formed an alliance and brought the US to its
knees without a shot being fired. Economic pressure alone did the trick.
You know, I think this actually is already in progress, it's just that the swine
who control the US military-industrial complex have such extreme hubris
that they won't see what's coming until it runs them over.
Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win or gain a serious advantage in a game or sport. It has been described as "Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end" (Lumpkin, Stoll and Beller, 1994:92). It may be inferred that the term derives from the idea of playing for the game (i.e., to win at any cost) as opposed to sportsmanship, which derives from the idea of playing for sport. The term originates from Stephen Potter's humorous 1947 book, The Theory and Practice of Gamesmanship (or the Art of Winning Games without Actually Cheating).
This smacks of cold war gamesmanship. I've known a few spooks and what they had in common was a deep seated sense of gamesmanship.
How is one meant for spying different from any other type of antenna?
I realize there are different antennas for different frequency...
Unless of course there are ones that are only made for those frequencies used for espionage and not anything else... "Is this optimally made for listening to encrypted transmissions and not broadcast radio or TV signals?"
Hopefully, Fry's has them on sale in the espionage section.
reportedly to search for spy antennae and other espionage related equipment on the building rooftops
That's what they *say* but the helicopter was really trying to draw fire.
We trust the American people... it's just your damn government we have a problem with.
In the name of all Germans I want to apologize for this. It was a huge mistake...
Sorry.
Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
The staff of the Consulate should construct giant satellite dishes out of tin foil and hang them out of every window in the place.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I agree. As an American citizen I demand that that the US take their helicopters and fly from house to house 60' from every bedroom window in Germany to ensure there isn't any spying equipment trying to spy on our consulate. In the name of transparency, all video should be streamed live on the internet. Fair is fair.
NSA knew of it even before the chopper took off.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
Oy. I'm American too, and I know 60m != 60'. 197' isn't much better, but really. C'mon.
They weren't sure if they found anything, so they released the one photo they thought looked the the most suspicious the public to see if they could help find anything.
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
Just being more thorough.
I always thought it was standard practice for everyone's embassies to include an entire electronics communications suite usable for both 'secure' communications and 'accidentally' listening in on host nation broadcasts.
Heck, if the Germans didn't know about any visible gear by now, their spy boss is an incompetent buffoon and needs to be shipped back to whatever cave he crawled out of.
So you want credit both for stopping Germany from becoming a great power, and then for making germany into a great power? Just want to make sure I understand what goes on the "America Fuck Yeah" score board.
but don't pretend Germany isn't where they are today because of US support
Such arrogance, it almost boggles the mind.
The US isn't spying on Germany to undermine their sovereignty or protect them or any such bullshit, they're spying on Germany because Germany is a powerful nation with a lot of industry that's fighting for some of the same contracts that US companies. It's industrial espionage plain and simple. How the fuck to you think the whole NSA spying apparatus is financed? Through taxes alone?!
Just to give some background: Germany will have parlament elections on Sep 22nd, i.e. in 2 weeks.
this aggression will not stand, man!
"an helicopter"? How far can this idiocy of putting "an" in front of any word beginning with h go?
It's "a helicopter".
US embassy in Ottawa have a dome. Inside the dome there is a huge array of spyware equipment. Dont tell anyone!
Tomorrow is another day...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
US used his intelligence network to help corporations win bids on big projects, against allies. Intel is more about industrial espionage then "security".
Tomorrow is another day...
When a Stinger missile would come in handy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRTngtsOY8Q
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
It's unlikely that this is a PR stunt of the government to soothe the public. To give you some background information: the election campaigns here in Germany are in full blast now. The opposition used the recent revelations by Snowden to accuse the Merkel administration of breaking the constitution and betraying civil rights and values. The strategy of the coalition was to downplay everything, ensure everyone that the NSA was not pulling a dragnet through everyone's private data, and that there really way nothing to see. Please move along.
Now, this weird helicopter flight does not reflect that secure, self-reliant stance the coalition has presented before. Instead, it reveals that officials have little clue about what foreign intelligence is really doing on German soil. And so they have to rely on embarrassingly obvious means to gather new intel. This is no display of strength, but of weakness.
Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
Oh, and that helicopter, was trawling an EMS (ElectroMagnetic Signals) antenna as well as a P-Band InSAR (Interferometric Synthetic Aperture Radar) antenna.
And that helps find antennas LISTENING to something instead of broadcasting something?
bickerdyke
Ronald Pofalla is know for his - how shall I put it? - errrm, ... lack of subtleness. How the _chancelors_ chief of staff can order a _police_ helicopter to do what's basically a military/state _intel_ job is totally beyond me though. ... It raised a lot less of a stink than I would have hoped for.
We have these nutcase scenarios where people seem to break every rule in the book just for the heck of it. At the G8 convention in Heiligendam we had high-tech tactical bombers helping out the police gathering intel on demonstrators.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Hmm... I dont believe they are thinking correctly. I suspect they are looking for rocks. With nanotech they will have to search for sand. Hell - I'd create brick antennas.
You don't say "elicopter". You DO speak the "h". Silent really, REALLY means "silent".
US foreign policy has never been worse than now
You have to be joking.
The U.S. and every other country in the world spies using all means at its disposal. The Internet was invented in the U.S. Sorry, but whoever is surprised and shocked at the current revelations is clueless. That is one thing.
The other thing is Vietnam war, Iraq war... if you think U.S. foreign policy is worse now than during Nixon or Bush, you are double clueless beyond hope of recovery.
Not quite.
They're just not as good at it.
I might want to introduce you to an old friend called FSB (née KGB).
Yes, I know your currently outraged a the massive surveillance and interception network that the NSA has built itself recently. But you should probably realise that a time when those who took the decision to start this program weren't even born, there where other organisation which were already been doing it routinely.
Big surprise #1: OMG the NSA is massively spying on everyone including it own population at a scaring level.
Big surprise #2: Others have been doing the exact same for ages and are probably similarily good at it by now. (Russia and China are probable good candidates for having NSA-like infrastructures, capabilites, and gathered data)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
As already pointed out, The west German government was upto their necks in supporting this during the cold war, they know how it worked and were willing partners. Not to mention, under the UKUSA Securty Agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement, Europe and European Russia are under the UK's responsibility to spy on, the least they could have done is fly over the right consulate.
YOU have got to be joking. Have you not been paying attention to Iraq, Afghanistan, Balkans, Gitmo and Syria?! Or countless other minor skirmishes that the US has been involved in. You can cry "joking" all you want, but the joke is on you and your war-mongering statist apologetics.
What? They're spying on us? Shame on them!
I'm not just referring to the economic aid in purely monetary terms. I'm referring to the shift in thinking from "we have to keep Germany down" to "we have to build Germany up", which in a large part was thanks to U.S. influence and pressure on the other Allies.
This was not an act of selfless compassion of course, as the U.S. was interested in a bastion against communism, but that does not diminish the argument.
The local oscillators of radio receivers can be detected, and what they give off can infer which frequency band is being listened to.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
The other thing is Vietnam war, Iraq war... if you think U.S. foreign policy is worse now than during Nixon or Bush, you are double clueless beyond hope of recovery.
You know, they have this thing called "the news" where you can find out that our president is pushing for an illegal war with Syria. The truth is that nothing has changed, except that we are continuing to edge towards utter fascism.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Under Lend-Lease there was no charge to the UK for materiel. The loan after the war had 2% interest and was repaid in 2006.
> the USSR did more to win the war in europe than the USA.
The US dismantled the German war machine. That's nothing to casually sweep under the rug. Just ask anyone old enough to remember Dresden or the rest of Germany after the war.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
There used to be a "Law and Order UK" it was created by the guy Dick Wolfe who created the US Law and Order shows.
They played a couple of seasons on BBC america, but I haven't seen it on for a long time.
One of the Crown lawyers was played by Freema Agyeman, best known for her role of Martha Jones (A companion of David Tennant Dr Who
If you vote for a third party, the wrong lizard may get in
If every single voter in this country stopped trying to game the damn system, and voted their conscience, then the powerful would have to figure out some other way to manipulate the system.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I think the two things that make the US look very, very bad is a) the NSA building and running Bot-Nets and b) the NSA weakening encryption standards and security software and devices. This is a direct attack on world-wide critical infrastructure (something usually done only by terrorists) and basically an act of war against the whole world. The rest of the world is currently trying very hard to overlook these things, but they cannot do so forever.
While there will be a ramping-up period, Europe certainly can build CPUs, devices and Software without US help. That would actually be pretty bad for US economics and may be the one thing that eventually leads to the NSA being reigned in.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Well, yes. If carefully designed to do so. Antennas resonate. Still, this was a clearly as stunt, likely to send a message of the form "it is _our_ country, not yours".
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Not if carefully shielded.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Why? CSIS is practically a subdivision of the CIA. They will do whatever the CIA or FBI want here in Canada, including spying on Canadians.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
I didn't remotely say that Germans have not worked extremely hard to put their country at the top of the economic heap, I just said Germany wouldn't be where they are today without US support. If you really think Germany would be the same today if the US had just let the USSR control the whole country (or even all of Berlin) you are delusional. Go ask any former East Germans if they would have preferred that outcome...
The real troll here was the post claiming the USA and Germany are "hostile countries." That's just stupid hyperbole. The US and Germany are allies and the financial backbone of NATO, the largest military alliance in history. And still they spy on each other, as all allies have done, big deal.
How the fuck to you think the whole NSA spying apparatus is financed?
And once you bring in inane conspiracy theories what's the point. Actually, if you want to know how the NSA is financed just go look it up, it's part of the latest NSA leaks...
Things are a bit different than you realize. Now the news is centrally owned. If a story appears that is politically undesirable, ALL the major news media downplay it. During the VietNam era, citizen protests were heard. Now...well, they aren't suppressed physically any more harshly, but just about nobody hears about them...which makes them rather pointless. During the VietNam era a comedian could stage a mock campaign for president on TV. Today, that's just not feasible. ETC.
When news is managed, you don't really need to manage actions tightly. And when you do, you can suppress people hearing about it. If the local police abuse their power and use tasers to torture someone, and then shoot him to death, you hear about it locally. Not nationally...unless it makes a point that the powers that be wish to be made. During the 1960's-70's an equivalent, or even a less brutal act, would be likely to be heard nation-wide. (Think Medgar Evers.)
No direct comparison is possible, and this doesn't speak directly to foreign policy anyway, but the news is much more managed now than then. (And a part of the reason for doing away with the draft is so that there would be less objection by citizens who were wealthy enough to manage to be heard.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.