Apple Unveils iPhone 5C, iPhone 5S

Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by rodrigoandrade · 2013-09-10 06:03 · Score: 5, Interesting

First, Apple releases a tiny 7" tablet, against Jobs recommendation when he was alive. Now they come up with a cheap iPhone, further eroding Aple's premium image. What's next, sell iPhones at Walmart??

Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by kthreadd · 2013-09-10 06:06 · Score: 2

Working as designed. Won't fix.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by sl4shd0rk · 2013-09-10 06:30 · Score: 2

What's next, sell iPhones at Walmart??
Why not? If they can get the cost down to compete with other feature/smart phones, then it's way better for the consumer. The worst case scenario is what we have now; tiers based on price rather than merit. When the cost becomes irrelevant due to a shared cost horizon, products are left to compete based on innovative features rather than slanted idealism.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by jedidiah · 2013-09-10 06:31 · Score: 3, Insightful

> Er, yeah, right next to the HUGE display of other Apple iProducts in Wal-Mart. Your point?
Walmart is famous for trying to make premium brands their b*tch. There have been companies that have been faced with lowering their quality or being shut out of Walmart and chose to be shut out of Walmart.
It used to be that Apple was held up as that kind of company.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by ShanghaiBill · 2013-09-10 06:55 · Score: 4, Informative

What's next, sell iPhones at Walmart??

YES
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by tnk1 · 2013-09-10 07:00 · Score: 5, Interesting

That's just the thing. Jobs did not want to be involved in the race to the bottom in terms of price. If they are going to cut expenses, they are not going to want to drop the price with it.
Jobs wanted to make expensive phones that people would expect to pay a premium for. He left the problem of making it affordable to the cell companies who stepped in and subsidized it with contracts.
Jobs wanted people to pay good money for his stuff. Part of that is *not* wanting to be compared to the latest effort from some other phone at the same price point. It starts becoming a real brutal game if you join the rest that way. If the 5C is priced with a larger field of phones, there is a higher chance that those other phones might happen upon a feature or design that can beat the 5C. If Apple stays with the high priced market, there are fewer competitors, AND they have more money from sales to keep pushing the envelope. To sell, they market features and an image, they do not market on price.
I think his model, if you can do it, works. Becoming a commodity is the death knell for your company because relentlessly cutting costs creates a cost-cutting atmosphere. That sort of atmosphere inhibits creativity by both providing a lesser product, but also by making the company less inclined to spend more on talent and research. And in this day and age, that leads to not only your manufacturing going to China, but also your whole corporate model eventually being duplicated by overseas competitors. Cheap is something they can do a lot better than those of us who give our workers a better standard of living.
I'm not going to say the 5C is a good or a bad idea, but I think that dropping price in and of itself, is not going to be as positive for a company as you might think. It can be a very short term sort of success.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by CastrTroy · 2013-09-10 07:08 · Score: 2

The iPhone 5C is $99 with a 2 year contract. Only $100 less than the iPhone 5s. I'm pretty sure the iPhone 5 was $699 without a plan. If they price the iPhone 5s similarly, then the iPhone 5c will probably cost around $599. Which isn't cheap at all by my standards. Sure it's a little cheaper, but hardly cheap enough to even warrant a different model. Make it free on the 2 year plan, or less than $300 for the unlocked phone, and then you are getting closer. I really don't know how people justify paying $700 for a phone. Seems just ludicrous to me.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by ottothecow · 2013-09-10 08:34 · Score: 2

That's certainly not how it works in the USA.
The big 2 carriers don't offer a discount for bringing your own phone (like T-mobile does), and they don't require a different plan for different price point phones (they won't require data on dumb-phones, and used to have cheaper messaging options on non-keyboard phones though).
So if you are on AT&T, and don't plan to move or change carriers in the next 2 years (which is pretty rare...most people just stick with one provider year after year), you are throwing away money to not pick up a new subsidized phone when you are eligible. You are paying for the subsidy every month, but not getting anything in return. The only reasons to buy a device outright are if you want something they don't offer, you aren't eligible for a new subsidy and need a new phone. or you want an unlocked/developer edition.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by the+computer+guy+nex · 2013-09-10 08:34 · Score: 3, Informative

First, Apple releases a tiny 7" tablet, against Jobs recommendation when he was alive. Now they come up with a cheap iPhone, further eroding Aple's premium image. What's next, sell iPhones at Walmart??

Jobs said they wouldn't make a 7" 16:9 tablet. They made a 7.9" 4:3 tablet that has 34% more screen area. I would expect Slashdot to understand basic geometry and know that these aren't equivalent form factors.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Slime-dogg · 2013-09-10 08:36 · Score: 4, Informative

Apple has usually shipped the prior version of the iphone alongside their new version. When the 4S came out, the 3GS was the super cheap phone, and the 4 was discounted. When the 5 came out, it was the 4 that was super cheap (free with contract) and the 4S was discounted.

The difference now is that the iPhone 5 has been recast as the 5C, and is not shipped alongside the 5S. Instead, it is still a higher priced product, although not nearly as pricey as the 5S, and the 4S is free with contract.

TLDR: Apple has always shipped a "discounted" iPhone except for the original.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by gnasher719 · 2013-09-10 09:33 · Score: 4, Informative

I think they are finally admitting that OSX has been a failure. All the ad money and snarky campaigns didn't move them much over 10% market share.

That's the most stupid thing I've heard for a while.

Last estimates are that Apple takes 45% of all profits from computer sales. Far, far ahead of Dell, HP and everyone else is far behind.

And marketing money wise, Apple's spend is nothing compared to Samsung.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Swampash · 2013-09-10 16:11 · Score: 4, Informative

I think they are finally admitting that OSX has been a failure.
http://www.asymco.com/2013/04/16/escaping-pcs/
Highest average revenue per PC sold: Apple
Highest operating margin percentage: Apple
Highest operating margin per PC shipped: Apple
Highest profit from PC sales: Apple
Percentage of worldwide PC-industry profit going to Apple: 45% (second place: Dell, 13%)
Note: figures do not include sales of devices running iOS. That's just OS X.
Yep, failure.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Xest · 2013-09-11 04:10 · Score: 3, Informative

Jobs said no such thing. In fact, his quotes are even more damning when contrasted to the release of the iPad mini:
"The reason we [won't] make a 7-inch tablet isn't because we don't want to hit that price point, it's because we think the screen is too small to express the software,"
and then:
"There are clear limits of how close you can physically place elements on a touch screen before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps."
From an original news article at the time:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/19/apples-ipad-2-wont-be-a-s_n_767882.html
Don't try and re-write history just because it paints an inconvenient view of your pet company/deity. If you're going to post a sarcastic comment about "Slashdot" not understanding something then you could at very least make sure you're not outright making shit up yourself to start with.

Where's the led notification? by Rik+Sweeney · 2013-09-10 06:05 · Score: 5, Funny

Seriously, when I had an iPhone, the one thing that annoyed me more than anything was the lack of a notification led.

That's what the S stands for:

"Still no notification led"

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Re:Where's the led notification? by Nerdfest · 2013-09-10 06:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

Also, still no widgets, or alternative ways to install software.
It is pretty hardware. Overprced, I think, but nice. I wish they'd either open up their walled garden or sell these for people to install other operating systems on. They could keep their 'prestige' brand while not crippling the hardware.
Re:Where's the led notification? by sessamoid · 2013-09-10 06:14 · Score: 3, Informative

iOS6 has a setting to use the camera flash as a notification blinker.

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Re:Where's the led notification? by FlopEJoe · 2013-09-10 06:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

It's horribly problematic to alarm every minute when I want the alarm sound off! Meetings, presentations, movie theaters. I even silence it even at work in my cube. I love my droid multi-color and flash rate notification LED. Different colors for different types of notifications and a different flash rate for "important" people's SMS.
Re:Where's the led notification? by UnknowingFool · 2013-09-10 06:28 · Score: 3, Informative

General --> Accessibility --> LED Flash for Alerts --> On
Since iOS 6 I think.

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Re:Where's the led notification? by ricklow · 2013-09-10 06:30 · Score: 5, Funny

Have you ever tried it? I damn near fried my retinas when it went off.

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Re:Where's the led notification? by vux984 · 2013-09-10 06:37 · Score: 2

I can see this being a problem for deaf people, but if you're not deaf, what's so horribly problematic with the model all manufacturers have been using the past 15 years
Not all manufacturers have been using that model. My phone has an LED. My phone before that had one. 15 years ago... lets see... I had a StarTAC... it had an LED that would flash if i had missed calls or voicemail too.
I had an iphone 3GS for a couple years, and that's probably the only phone i've ever had without one. And it was definitely a feature I missed. My wife refuses to consider a phone without an LED she relies on it so much. Her friends are pretty chatty, so she doesn't want it to beep or vibrate every time she gets a message, and she doesn't always want to answer texts right away from them if she's busy. But she also doesn't want "no notification" because then she has to OCD check it all the time and that's annoying too... LED is perfect for "check it at glance even from across the room"
repeating the relevant alarm sound (SMS etc.) once every minute until the user picks the phone up?
Maybe, just maybe, I don't want my phone to beep to bug me and everyone around me every single minute that I don't go fondle it?
Maybe I like being able to pop it on the charger and then tell at a glance whether I have new messages. So I can check when I want to check, without having to move, and without it disrupting me and everyone else around me, every minute.
And current phones with programmable multicolor led support, I can know at a glance whether its from someone important enough to get up and go deal with or not.
Critical system down at work is a different LED color than other stuff...
Re:Where's the led notification? by cdrudge · 2013-09-10 06:46 · Score: 2

It's better to have a feature available and choose not to use it, than it is to not have the feature and never be able to.
I don't use 80% of the widgets that are available on my Android phone. The 20% that I do use I use extremely often and would not use a phone that did not have similar functionality.
Re:Where's the led notification? by Karlt1 · 2013-09-10 06:50 · Score: 4, Informative

Seriously, when I had an iPhone, the one thing that annoyed me more than anything was the lack of a notification led.
http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-20122525-285/ios-5-tip-how-to-enable-led-flash-alerts/
You're Welcome.
Re:Where's the led notification? by narcc · 2013-09-10 07:11 · Score: 5, Insightful

Or, you know, the blinding flash isn't a suitable alternative to the notification LED.

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Re:Where's the led notification? by Nerdfest · 2013-09-10 07:18 · Score: 2, Insightful

Very much so, and with many good reasons. They are tryng to make it acceptable to lock users to proprietary formats, protocols, and connectors and not be able to decide for themselves what to install on their devices. They are also the biggest abuser (of the admittedly broken) partent system on the planet.
Re:Where's the led notification? by Reverand+Dave · 2013-09-10 07:21 · Score: 2

I can actually see the fact they are deaf as being a bigger issue than the lack of a flashy light. Besides if they are deaf and buying an iPhone, they are not only without hearing, they lack any kind of sense at all.

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Re:Where's the led notification? by balbus000 · 2013-09-10 07:23 · Score: 2

How do I edit or delete a post here ?
No :P
Re:Where's the led notification? by gstoddart · 2013-09-10 07:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

So you mean you actually check your phone during meetings, instead of keeping it in your pocket and not letting it steal your attention? Wow.
Don't take this wrong, but do you go to many meetings?
I've had the person running the meeting constantly checking their phone during the meeting.
I had one manager a several years ago that got so bad I basically said "I'm not having a meeting with you if you bring your damned phone" -- because he'd miss what you said, ask you a question, and then while you were giving the answer he'd check his phone again and miss what you said a second time.
One day I got up and walked out of the meeting and left him sitting there.
In my experience, an awful lot of people are checking their phones pretty much constantly, and to the detriment of everyone around them and what they're trying to do.
You might be amazed to see just how many phones are being checked during meetings, and often people are trying to respond to emails concurrent with trying to listen to you.

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Re:Where's the led notification? by gstoddart · 2013-09-10 07:39 · Score: 3, Informative

Besides if they are deaf and buying an iPhone, they are not only without hearing, they lack any kind of sense at all.
Well, they could be primarily using it for texting and as a web device.
The fraction of time that I use my cellphone for a voice call compared to what else I use it for is tiny.
But googling for "iphone deaf people" comes up with various apps and settings which are intended to make it easier for them -- so it's not like no deaf person has ever owned an iPhone (or a cell phone in general).

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Re:Where's the led notification? by Dixie_Flatline · 2013-09-10 08:17 · Score: 2

That ridiculous. Do you have scissors built into your phone? A laser pointer, dog whistle, tissue dispenser or espresso maker? Why not? Isn't it better to have the feature available?
Even if we don't consider the realm of the obviously bad ideas, elegance is not about having as much stuff in one box as possible, it's about having as little as possible to get the job done properly. If my phone is stuffed with software that I never use and will never use, it's just a waste of my time and storage. The whole point of having app stores is so that you buy the stuff that you want to augment the functionality of your phone.
Wouldn't it be better if your phone came with the 20% of stuff that you use and left the other 80% out?
Re:Where's the led notification? by zieroh · 2013-09-10 08:28 · Score: 2

It's better to have a feature available and choose not to use it, than it is to not have the feature and never be able to.
False. Every single feature increases system complexity, saps development and quality resources, and increases development cost. Most of those features also impose additional complexity on the UI itself.
Anyone who has ever developed a system of even moderate complexity understands this principal intrinsically. I have to assume by your comment that you don't write code or design HW for a living.

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Re:Where's the led notification? by zieroh · 2013-09-10 08:31 · Score: 2

One day I got up and walked out of the meeting and left him sitting there.
How long before he noticed you were gone?

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Fingerprint database, anyone? by carlhaagen · 2013-09-10 06:07 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm not an anti-Apple dullard, believe me, but this thought must've stricken at least a few of the readers.

Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by sessamoid · 2013-09-10 06:11 · Score: 5, Informative

The fingerprint is saved locally and encrypted on the individual phone's A7 chip. Never goes to iCloud. Never touches Apple servers.

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Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:15 · Score: 5, Funny

ah... so in other words, it's only available to the NSA.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by _xeno_ · 2013-09-10 06:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

The fingerprint is saved locally and encrypted on the individual phone's A7 chip. Never goes to iCloud. Never touches Apple servers.
Ah, so we've looked through the source code and hardware design to verify that's the case? I mean, the source code and hardware are open, so we can verify them, and the phone is open so we can verify that the binary on the phone matches the source code we have, right?
What's that, no on all counts?
Yeah, no, I think I'll pass on trusting Apple with anything, especially considering that their privacy policy (still) says that they track your every move - but it's OK, because they don't attach it to your name, just an unique ID that's attached to your phone that's attached to your name.

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Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by skiminki · 2013-09-10 06:21 · Score: 2

And you honestly think that NSA or whatever won't be able to fetch that data from the phone?
One day someone leaves a bag full of stuff with fingerprints somewhere, then they'll have all the justification they need for a worldwide fingerprint db...
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Just+Some+Guy · 2013-09-10 06:36 · Score: 3, Interesting

Not to dispute your paranoid premise, but... I've personally helped out with a "Child Identification Program" activity where we made videos of kids, took some standardized pictures, took fingerprints (using paper and ink, not digital scanners), and collected a cheek swab DNA sample. When we were done, every single shred of data we collected was gathered up and given to the parents for safekeeping. We had neither the interest nor the capability of storing "backups". Please don't talk parents out of making identification kits of their kids.

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Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by ThatAblaze · 2013-09-10 06:40 · Score: 5, Interesting

So, let me get this straight. Whenever a user gets arrested the police already take that user's fingerprint. Your phone is now locked with your fingerprint, so the police will no longer have to ask to unlock your phone? Merely by being arrested and owning an iPhone they could claim you have given them implied access to your phone.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by seven+of+five · 2013-09-10 07:02 · Score: 4, Interesting

If you have your iPhone locked with the fingerprint thing, and the cops want to see what's on your phone, can they compel you to press the button?
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by ColdWetDog · 2013-09-10 07:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

WHY are you worried about a fingerprint? NSA has lots more useful information about you, they don't need the wetware. If anyone actually DOES want your fingerprint, following you surreptitiously for a day will give them lots of chances to pull one (or all ten). It would be just as useful as your unlock code, ie, not. They've got the real data without getting near your phone.

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Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2013-09-10 07:18 · Score: 2

Ah, so we've looked through the source code and hardware design to verify that's the case? I mean, the source code and hardware are open, so we can verify them, and the phone is open so we can verify that the binary on the phone matches the source code we have, right?
This is getting silly. Unless you're doing this for all of the binaries that are running on your own individual phone, having an OS that's (only partly, in the case of Android) open-source is nothing more than a philosophical choice - there's no security advantage.
I'm disgusted by the NSA's behavior, and I'm wary about lies of omission from all these companies - including Apple and Google. But when they make a clear, unequivocal statement of fact, I choose to believe them. Legally they could get an expensive new hole ripped for them in court if it turned out they were lying.

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Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by skiminki · 2013-09-10 07:40 · Score: 3, Insightful

Besides, I was talking about a worldwide fingerprint db. I, for example, am not a US citizen.
Anyway, my concern is not NSA. My main concern is organized crime. In the future we're likely to have lots of gadgets unlocked by a fingerprint. Cars, house door locks, whatever. When phones have built-in capabilities for transmitting fingerprints to centralized databases, it's only a matter of time until someone is able to tap into that data. Someone breaks into your house and your insurance company won't pay for damages because the fingerprint sensor says you let them in...
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by LDAPMAN · 2013-09-10 07:44 · Score: 4, Informative

Actually, it is stored there. The A7 includes a cryptographic module with non-volatile RAM that stores the data needed to authenticate the fingerprint. It works the same way a smart card works. It has a "store" function and an "authenticate" function built into the hardware. There is no "read" function so there is no way to get the data out without some serious and destructive forensics.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by DJRumpy · 2013-09-11 06:01 · Score: 3, Informative

Head, meat tinfoil. Tinfoil, head...
They already keep a fingerprint database. Passport? Fingerprinted. There are also 4 states that require fingerprinting for a drivers license (California, Colorado, Georgia, and Texas). Those 4 states make up about 1/4 of the entire U.S. population. People getting general assistance (GA) have also been required to give fingerprints since 1996. The same is true for many criminal history checks. Work in a government job? Fingerprinted. Teachers, Food Service workers? Fingerprinted. Foster parents? Ditto. Law enforcement, Judicial positions, handgun permits, etc. The list goes on and on.
Chances are good that you are already in a database somewhere. The same hysteria surrounded video surveillance, which is widespread. The fact that you leave your fingerprints everywhere would tend to make them less of a illegal search issue, and more of a gray area as they are often used as a simple means of identification these days.

Re:Stop with the conferences by kthreadd · 2013-09-10 06:09 · Score: 2

It's not cheap. You will pay much more with the "two year contract". Buying the locked-in computer with unlocked sim will still cost a lot.

iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by ThomasBHardy · 2013-09-10 06:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

I've been a fan of the iPhone since it came out. Love it or hate it, it did change the landscape and it does a lot of things really well. Unfortunately the whizzbang features with the faster processor and fingerprint scanner and such, while nifty, are less compelling to me than getting a larger screen for my aging eyes. That alone knocks it out of my "time to upgrade" category. It feels like too small of an incremental enhancement and not anything singularly so substantial that it's worth plunking down money for.

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Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by lazarus · 2013-09-10 06:37 · Score: 3, Informative

I'm with you. The iPhone is just getting too damn small for my 2000 year-old eyes to see anymore. Make it bigger FFS! Stupid kids...

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Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by sootman · 2013-09-10 06:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

> It feels like too small of an incremental enhancement and not anything
> singularly so substantial that it's worth plunking down money for.
Yes, and that's for 2 reasons:
1) They already got all the low-hanging fruit. The original iPhone was amazing in many ways but was missing quite a few state-of-the-art features when it was introduced. The 3G added GPS. The 3GS could shoot video. The 4 could shoot HD video. Since then, there's not a lot of big things missing. The biggest single improvement each year is now the camera -- especially since they've stuck with 16 GB storage on the entry-level model for 5 years now. :-( Seriously -- what could they possible add today that would be an "amazing" upgrade from the 5, comparable to gaining GPS, videorecording, or the retina screen? 3D? Surround sound? Tricorder?
That said, you, my wife, and many other people would appreciate an iPhone at the same resolution on a larger screen to make all elements bigger. Hopefully Apple will make one someday, but I wouldn't count on it.
2) Each iPhone is only a bit better than the previous, but it's quite a bit better than the second-previous, which is their main market -- people who are upgrading when they become eligible, 2 years after their last new phone. I bought an iPhone shortly after it came out in 2007 and for various reasons I was eligible to upgrade annually so since then I've had a 3G, 4, and 4S because hey, why not -- each old one sold for enough to pay for its replacement and I was almost always within the original warranty period. I wasn't eligible to get a 5, though, so moving from a 4S to a 5S will be quite a nice upgrade for me. 120fps video... CAN'T WAIT! :-)

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Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 08:06 · Score: 2

Seriously -- what could they possible add today that would be an "amazing" upgrade from the 5, comparable to gaining GPS, videorecording, or the retina screen? 3D? Surround sound? Tricorder?
NFC? A HD screen? A proper notification LED? Widgets? Some kind of answer to Glass or the smart watches being released? A low power mono display overlay for an always-on clock (my ancient Nokia had that)?
Other manufacturers are still coming out with big new features.

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Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by bill_mcgonigle · 2013-09-10 09:10 · Score: 3

I'm with you. The iPhone is just getting too damn small for my 2000 year-old eyes to see anymore. Make it bigger FFS! Stupid kids...
I don't intend to be mean, but cultural marketing is very much a part of Apple's brand strategy. They've sold a lot of iGear because they're *cool*. Not having "old people" use them may be part of that brand strategy.

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Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by Cimexus · 2013-09-10 09:30 · Score: 2

Yep. They said their statistics showed 50% of users didn't use any security at all. So I see the fingerprint option as something for that group of users. I'll be sticking with my 8-digit PIN.

The 5C isn't even cheap by iONiUM · 2013-09-10 06:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm sorry, but the 5C is $99 on contract, which is similar to many Android phones that are better. In addition, the off-contract price is $599 (CAD) for 5C 16GB... how is that a "cheap" phone? The nexus is, what, $350? Give me a break.

Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by Microlith · 2013-09-10 06:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

This is why Apple likes the US cellular model. They get heavy subsidization via the carriers who lock users in for 2 years and don't see the actual price.
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by LDAPMAN · 2013-09-10 06:49 · Score: 4, Informative

No differentiation? I hate to repeat myself but...
1. non-plastic case
2. Better camera
3. Fingerprint sensor
4. Motion co-processor
5. 64bit A7 processor with double the CPU and GPU performance of the old proc
Yea...nothing different there for your $100
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by Skuld-Chan · 2013-09-10 08:43 · Score: 2

Nexus 4 is 199 - unlocked and OFF contract.
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by aristotle-dude · 2013-09-10 10:02 · Score: 2

And what apps and features utilize the full 64bit core?
The built in apps, the Apple paid apps, the new free iWorks suite of apps?
Apparently, some programs only need a recompile to be able to take advantage of the extra speed.

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Re:Stop with the conferences by Kufat · 2013-09-10 06:17 · Score: 5, Informative

Yes.. Note that that's an off-contract price and that it ships with a user-unlockable bootloader.

(I have no interest in a flame war. It's an answer to the question the parent asked, not an attempt to start an Android vs. iOS argument.)

Please select a comment: by coinreturn · 2013-09-10 06:17 · Score: 4, Funny

1) Same old shit, nothing new.

2) Apple is dead, dead, dead.

3) Android is better because of blah, blah, blah.

4) I'm already in line.

Re:Please select a comment: by new+death+barbie · 2013-09-10 06:22 · Score: 4, Informative

5) All of the above.

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It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.

Re:So long, Apple by LDAPMAN · 2013-09-10 06:18 · Score: 4, Informative

hmm...except for;

1. non-plastic case
2. Better camera
3. Fingerprint sensor
4. Motion co-processor
5. 64bit A7 processor with double the CPU and GPU performance of the old proc

Yea...nothing different there for your $100

I bought a 4.... that's enough by mark-t · 2013-09-10 06:19 · Score: 4, Informative

I do not expect I will be buying another iPhone ever again. The device is far too tiny... It seemed like a good idea at the time when I bought it, but having used it for 2 years now, I can see that it's not all that I had hoped for.

My wife's Galaxy Note phone is awesome... reasonable screen size, and even comes with a stylus.

If Apple made something along those lines (I think the term is "phabet), I'd probably purchase it, but I don't expect that they will, so once my current contract is up (next spring), I'm migrating to an Android.

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'

Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by ravenscar · 2013-09-10 06:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

That's why it's good to have competition in the market. I probably won't ever purchase another android phone because they are all far too large for my taste. This is coming from someone who used Android happily for a number of years. The last time I went in for an upgrade the iPhone 5 was the only device that felt comfortable in my hand. It's nice that we both have the chance to be happy with our devices.
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2013-09-10 07:32 · Score: 2

I do not expect I will be buying another iPhone ever again. The device is far too tiny...
Different strokes for different folks. I'm 53, have pretty poor eyesight (been wearing glasses since I was 10)... and actually prefer the 3.5" screen size that was on my old iPhone 3GS (or the LG Thrive I also had at the time) than the 4" display on my iPhone 5. I prefer not to have to use two hands to operate my phone, and with the 5 the top row is reachable but sometimes requires a bit of a stretch with my thumb (and I'm a 6-foot guy with normal hands). I really think those smaller screens were the best size for a phone. And, at least right now, I don't have any trouble reading stuff on that "too tiny" phone screen.
Now I also have an iPad Mini, which I use far more often for reading the web, playing games, and such - so the iPhone isn't my only mobile device. I understand that some people just want a single device, and there are compromises involved in making that choice. But those giant phones can't be used very well one-handed - that doesn't matter to everyone, but it does to me.

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#DeleteChrome

rrrrrradical! by jjeffries · 2013-09-10 06:20 · Score: 5, Funny

> iPhone 5 was a radical new design

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2012/09/iphone5Comparison.jpeg

Yeah that's FREAKING RADICAL, MAN!

Fingerprint novelty by WarJolt · 2013-09-10 06:22 · Score: 2

Hopefully user installed apps can't use that fingerprint scanner or I can see identity theft hit a new level.
I've used the Atrix 4G and the fingerprint novelty is fleeting, not to mention fingerprints are insecure and at least in the Atrix 4G case frustrating to use because of misreads.

Re:Stock price drop in 3, 2, 1... by Bill_the_Engineer · 2013-09-10 06:22 · Score: 5, Informative

How much time will Apple be able to sell smartphones at 600-700 USD?

You mean like the Samsung 4S or the HTC One?

--
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:29 · Score: 5, Interesting

Look at it from the NSA/FBI's point of view: they already have backdoor access to your phone's data, so the fingerprint scanner isn't about keeping Them out, but about securing biometric data from users voluntarily. If They tried to fingerprint or retina-scan a whole nation Themselves (like our troops do to occupied Afganistan and before in Iraq) there would be resistance; we only got away with it in Afghanistan and Iraq because we were an armed, occupying force. At home, they'll start integrating biometric scanners into cheap, gaudy (GOLD!) baubles so the Sheeple fingerprint themselves instead.

Re:Lack of sensor demo... by UnknowingFool · 2013-09-10 06:31 · Score: 2

How would they demo that other than you press the Home button and it unlocks? It's not like they'll throw up CSI style graphics showing you how the phone matches the finger print real time.

--
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.

Re:So long, Apple by belatucadros3918 · 2013-09-10 06:34 · Score: 2

The A7 is twice as fast as what? The processor in the 5? Can we see some benchmarks?

Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by MarcoAtWork · 2013-09-10 06:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

I would've thought they'd bump to 128GB this time, especially given how large some apps are getting nowadays...

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-- the cake is a lie

Re:Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 07:43 · Score: 4, Informative

No SD card slot?

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC

Re:Stop with the conferences by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-09-10 06:40 · Score: 4, Insightful

"See Apple, the thing is, these big media events used to be about introducing jaw-dropping, mind blowing new technology."

Has Apple ever been about 'mind blowing new technology'? As long as I can remember, they've been about well polished, high-production-value implementations of technology that already existed.

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by RenderSeven · 2013-09-10 06:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

Since the CIA's invention of Facebook saved the government millions of dollars in monitoring costs, it makes sense to collect fingerprints the same way. And coming soon, the Facebook "Share A DNA Sample" feature.

Re:So long, Apple by tgibbs · 2013-09-10 06:45 · Score: 3, Funny

Yes, Apple would never make a plastic iPhone...except the very first one...and the one after that...and the one after that.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by Bomarc · 2013-09-10 06:46 · Score: 5, Funny

Just cut off your fingertip...it's about the same thing.

Can't wait for new corporate security policies mandating that you change your fingerprints every 3 months.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by dyingtolive · 2013-09-10 06:48 · Score: 4, Funny

Our band teacher in high school had a computer in the band room back in the early -00's (00's?), for some reason. He actually DID that.

We found out his password was "teacher". Needless to say, I quickly found out that this was the default password to EVERY teacher's account in the school. I got a stern talking to and was then invited to help the lab admin out during my study halls when I didn't have homework after pointing this out to them. It probably helped that I didn't change grades or anything like that before telling them I figured it out.

I bet nowadays kids get expelled for that, at a minimum.

--
Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by dyingtolive · 2013-09-10 06:49 · Score: 5, Funny

Also: He needed a sticky note to remember "teacher". Just reiterating that.

--
Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...

What is it with plastic? by Art3x · 2013-09-10 06:49 · Score: 3, Interesting

Why does plastic make things so much cheaper? (I'm in software. With mechanical things, my IQ drops to 50. The answer is likely so obvious that will make me look even dumber.)

Why do manufacturers opt for plastic so much over metal (or rubber or glass or whatever higher-quality material is best for each part)? Phones weigh ounces, and aren't such materials still just pennies per ounce?

Yes, I know labor adds to the cost, so making a phone (or a camera or a computer) with better materials would be more than the cost of the raw materials. But still, in what seems to be my utter naivete, I would guess that still it would be just a few dollars per unit.

Why are so many things made from plastic and so few made from anything else? Does it really save the manufacturer that much money?

Re:What is it with plastic? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:57 · Score: 3, Informative

Compared to metal or glass, plastic is much cheaper to work with (injection molding), it is cheaper to ship because it is lighter, and it is easier to handle because it will not bend or shatter as easily. Cheaper + cheaper + cheaper + cheaper = cheaper.
Re:What is it with plastic? by gstoddart · 2013-09-10 07:09 · Score: 2

Why are so many things made from plastic and so few made from anything else?
Plastic is well ... 'plastic', as in malleable and can be poured in a mold. It's cheap to buy, color, and make stuff with it.
So, if I want to make a plastic piece, I make a mold and put in exactly as much material as I need, and in all likelihood any left over stuff can just be re-melted and processed again.
Now, if I want to make an aluminum piece, I should think I'd either need to mill it (expensive, difficult, time consuming), or cast it -- and I don't think casting something like aluminum works well for smaller parts.
I couldn't even begin to give you costing figures, but plastic is cheap, light, abundant, made out of readily available petrochemicals, and easy to work with.
My guess, when companies are looking to squeeze costs, they're looking to save pennies per unit, not dollars.

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:What is it with plastic? by ThinkWeak · 2013-09-10 07:16 · Score: 2

A few dollars per unit adds up quick when you ship 23 million units in a quarter.
Re:What is it with plastic? by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 07:46 · Score: 2

It's basically down to two factors. Raw metal costs more to begin with. Getting it out of the ground or from recycling is expensive. Plastic is basically a by-product and fairly cheap to produce.
The other big cost is forming the raw material into the shape you want. Metal needs more energy and more complex tools, where as plastic is very easy to mould and work under moderate heat. Plastic is also easier to finish and can easily be dyed for colour, where as metal needs polishing or brushing and then painting.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:What is it with plastic? by ace37 · 2013-09-10 07:47 · Score: 2

The savings happen in the manufacturing process.
Typically for this type of production volume you will heat the material to a liquid state, squeeze it into a mold, let it cool, and then kick it out to make another. It's a lot easier to squeeze and pump plastic into a die, so the manufacturing costs to produce finished plastic products are much lower.
For metals, the process looks like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_casting
Whereas for plastics, the process looks like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_molding

Re:So long, Apple by achbed · 2013-09-10 06:51 · Score: 2

According to the presentation, the A7 is (a) 64-bit, (b) about twice as fast as the previous iPhone 5's A6 chip, and (c) has double the transistors, which I read as a significant die shrink (~25%). And offloading sensor tracking to a co-processor (the new M7 chip) frees up additional CPU cycles for other things.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by thomasw_lrd · 2013-09-10 07:00 · Score: 2

My fingertip for a mod point.

--
21st Century Renaissance Man

Re:A Sensor to unlock with Fingerprint? by mlts · 2013-09-10 07:04 · Score: 2

IMHO, what is wrong with another authentication mechanism? Provided the fingerprint scanner is resistant to gummi bears and other trivial methods, when combined with the usual PIN, it means that even if someone shoulder-surfs, they are not getting into the device, and the fingerprint scanner can be used for a quick (but decently secure) confirmation of buy transactions, or to access an app that has photos stored out of the Camera Roll.

The NSA is very low on my list of people I'm worried about. I'm far more concerned about the security implications of getting pickpocketed while in line at a local S-Mart [1] than I am with the latest boogeyman of the week. The fingerprint scanner is a way that even if the phone was not locked when picked up, an unauthorized user wouldn't be able to get access to data stored by various apps.

What I am curious about is how really secure this fingerprint scanner is.

[1]: Even with the upcoming iOS 7 coming out which prevents activation unless the account password is used, phones will still be extremely valuable parted out.

Re:A Sensor to unlock with Fingerprint? by Dan+Ost · 2013-09-10 07:06 · Score: 2

But for security purposes using it to unlock your phone or identify you to the device as the current user is pretty sweet

Sure, unless you're wearing gloves, or when you have wrinkled fingers from swiming or bathing, or you have grease on your fingers from eating, or you have a job where you have to wash your hands a lot (doctor, nurse, new parent, etc).

--

*sigh* back to work...

Need some more tinfoil for that hat? by King_TJ · 2013-09-10 07:08 · Score: 5, Insightful

I mean, fine with me if you distrust Apple so much, you suspect they'd stoop to uploading the locally stored fingerprint data to a central server and hang onto all of that data. (Never-mind the fact you'd think if they had an interest in doing so, they would have designed the iPhone 5s so the data synced with their servers in the first place.)

But how far does this distrust go? Your cellphone carrier can track your movements as long as your cellphone is powered on, you know.... What if they're selling that info to someone? Seems to me you better pass on a cellular phone, period!

Can't wait until next year... by MachDelta · 2013-09-10 07:09 · Score: 2

...when Apple announces their "6C" new phone... (say it out loud)

The jokes will practically write themselves.
"I, for one..."

Reviving the bit wars? by MarioMax · 2013-09-10 07:11 · Score: 4, Interesting

The one thing that struck me as odd is how much Apple is trumpeting 64-bit.

On a desktop or laptop computer I can see why you would care about 32-bit vs 64-bit; being able to address more than 4 gigs of ram is a huge selling point for 64-bit. But for a smartphone with only 1 gigabyte of ram, why should anyone (outside of developers) even care?

Re:Reviving the bit wars? by Acapulco · 2013-09-10 08:55 · Score: 2

<obligatory>1GB ought to be enough for anybody!</obligatory>
(it's our duty *not* to stop beating the dead horse)

--
Slashdot. Unreadable news to annoy nerds. - wonkey_monkey
Re:Reviving the bit wars? by Dreadrik · 2013-09-10 09:21 · Score: 5, Informative

The increased address space is not the important part of the ARMv8 64-bit architecture in this case.
Instead it has twice the number of general purpose registers (31) with twice the size (64 bit) than that of the previous ARMv7 architecture. It also has 32 x 128 bit vector registers, which again is doubled. This allows for more data being processed at the same time, and also saves a bit on memory accesses, which are horribly slow. There are also other improvements such as built in AES encrypting and SHA hashing instructions.

Re:Ghey by jellomizer · 2013-09-10 07:15 · Score: 4, Funny

You are using it wrong.

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If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.

5C stand for cheap by ZombieBraintrust · 2013-09-10 07:23 · Score: 4, Funny

Does the C stand for cheap?

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-09-10 07:25 · Score: 2

"I bet nowadays kids get expelled for that, at a minimum." God help you if the school is using some 'cloud' or hosted service to manage their email or whatnot. Obtaining a teacher's credentials would probably be about a zillion CFAA violations and an interstate matter... At least if it's all onsite, their legal options are more limited.

Security people will actually use by tgibbs · 2013-09-10 07:26 · Score: 2

So in an occasional rare situation, you have to enter the unlock code. Still a lot more convenient than having to enter the code every time. I don't use an unlock code because it's too much of a pain, but I'll use this.

Re:Samsung Group by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 07:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

Did apple find someone else to supply their parts?

It's not enough by Itsallmyfault · 2013-09-10 07:31 · Score: 2

Once again, nothing in these new iPhones to make me want to upgrade my iPhone 4. Apple realizes it too, hence the Apple apps giveaway. I'm even closer now to ditching the 4 in favor of anything made by Samsung.

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by Cinder6 · 2013-09-10 07:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

You're silly if you think the government doesn't already have your fingerprint. Apple says that the fingerprint data is encrypted and never leaves the phone, as well, so objections about Facebook and other third-parties having the data also seem to be out.

Personally, it's a feature I've been wanting for a long time.

--
If you can't convince them, convict them.

Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by csumpi · 2013-09-10 07:47 · Score: 2

64 > 32.

The beginning of the end... by MaWeiTao · 2013-09-10 07:47 · Score: 4, Funny

So the iPhone 5S is the incremental upgrade any objective observer would have predicted. The problem is that too many in the press kept trumpeting it like it would be some kind of revolution, and the ignorant masses, led by Apple fanatics, bought into the hype.

The mistake people have been making for well over a decade is to brand Apple as an innovator. They're not, far from it, in fact. What they are is amazing integrators, who are able to produce a great product because they're involved in every step of the process. They're also skilled at exploiting a technology when it's reached maturity. But other companies are the true innovators. They're the ones who've taken the risk on a technology in it's infancy and suffer the knocks that inevitably come. Unfortunately, they're rarely the ones who profit from those efforts and they certainly don't get the recognition from consumers.

The challenge for Apple is to remain relevant. The mobile market has matured with competitors catching up and even surpassing the iPhone in a variety of ways. The problem is that it seems Apple is afraid to tamper with their formula and so is playing it far too safe. This is the inevitably consequence of being at the top for too long. Fortunately for them, they've been able to retain their position as the prestige brand. This is partially due to the fact that the entire industry, all the way down to the retail level, keeps reinforcing that belief. Sticking to aluminum certainly helps maintain that perception amongst ignorant consumers.

I'd say Apple's days are numbered, although they're going to remain a dominant presence in the market for a very long time. I don't really see what they could do to reverse the slide. I'm not seeing anything of significance from Apple; nothing like the compelling experiments Google or Microsoft keep putting forward. They're mired in the success of the iPad and iPhone. They struck at the right time with great products but they don't have much of substance to fall back on.

By contrast, Microsoft just needs some proper management to shift things a bit so that they can get on track. They've still got a viable core of potential. From what I've seen Apple, on the other hand, has deeper problems. Maybe they'll prove me wrong in the next couple of years, but so far I'm not seeing it.

Fingerprints are not passwords! by tokiko · 2013-09-10 07:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

Fingerprints are not a valid replacement for passwords. They are not private. You leave them everywhere. Anything you touch can potentially be used against you.

It's only a matter of time until we see YouTube videos of people lifting a thumbprint off a soda can with Scotch tape and pressing it up to an iPhone to unlock it.

Re:Fingerprints are not passwords! by Karth · 2013-09-10 08:10 · Score: 3, Informative

Mythbusters proved that this is completely incorrect. Scotch tape with your thumb behind it is enough to fake out many modern systems, since it detects the body heat. You have to breath on the tape for moisture, but that's about it.
Re:Fingerprints are not passwords! by sinij · 2013-09-10 08:28 · Score: 2

There are different sensor technologies, only obsolete optical sensors are vulnerable to this attack. Modern sensors are subdermal, that is it doesn't matter what is on surface of your skin, it is internal ridge structure that gets scanned. Obviously, you are welcome to trust mythbusters to provide comprehensive technology overview.

Dead finger is harder to detect - capillary pulse detection can be faked, but it is hard.

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by interkin3tic · 2013-09-10 07:57 · Score: 2

While I'm concerned about privacy, there are tradeoffs as with any technology. Facebook, obviously, the transaction of your data for social networking is worth it to many people.

The fingerprinting thing too, may be worth it. Muggers target apple device users. Making sure they can't sell stolen phones isn't without benefit to the user. I think it's a lot more likely that some meth head would stab me for my phone than the government trying to do something similar. Fingerprinting could make the first less likely, and that might make it worth it even if it makes the second slightly more likely. At the very least, I'd like the meth head to not get anything, while the government likely already has my fingerprints, and doesn't really need them anyway to ruin my life.

Not that I'm going to get an iPhone ever again. I'd almost rather be stabbed by a meth head than have to use itunes again.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by xaxa · 2013-09-10 08:00 · Score: 2

I bet nowadays kids get expelled for that, at a minimum.

After the teacher found out, I got banned from using the school computers for the "rest of the year", which was about five days. I think the fresh air and sunshine probably did me some good. That was 1997.

(I didn't access any teacher's account or files. It was Windows 3.1, the "hack" was making a macro in word to open File Manager, then opening "progmana.exe", which was a copy/configuration(?) of Program Manager with the administration programs. I was 10, all I wanted to do was change the colours and the wallpaper.)

while attempting to change password... by globaljustin · 2013-09-10 08:03 · Score: 2

>error: that fingerprint has been used for this account before, please use a fingerprint that is different from the last 3 fingerprints used for this account

--
Thank you Dave Raggett

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by EGSonikku · 2013-09-10 08:13 · Score: 2

If you're worried about that just use the old password system? The fingerprint thing isn't a requirement...

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- "Scientia non habet inimicum nisp ignorantem"

The hell, Apple? by ArcadeMan · 2013-09-10 08:16 · Score: 2

No update to the iPod shuffle?

I'm kidding, of course. The current model is perfect, don't mess with it. We don't need another Third-Generation disaster.

--
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by MrDoh! · 2013-09-10 08:22 · Score: 2

I found it interesting they said the 'IMAGE' of the fingerprint doesn't leave the phone. Which of course it doesn't need to, just the data points of the fingerprint.

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Waiting for an amusing sig.

Re:There's already a line at AAPL for the new iPho by Tough+Love · 2013-09-10 09:03 · Score: 2

True. AAPL down 2.5% on this product announcement. The screen is a big disappointment.

--
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by jo_ham · 2013-09-10 09:13 · Score: 2

Sounds like this is round one in the future direction of iOS for Apple.

Right now it doesn't matter for the 5S in terms of being able to address large amounts of RAM, but the switch to the new 64 bit architecture did bring in more registers (x2) and some other tweaks that will help performance.

This is likely a heads up for developers that other iOS devices with larger amounts of RAM and a more real use for 64 bit may be coming (say, bigger iPads etc), or that they're thinking about adding a 64 bit A7 chip to the Macbook Pro (alongside the x86 - I don't think for a minute they'll be dropping intel CPUs on the desktop soon) to allow for 'low power on the move for more battery life' options or something.

No idea, but you can be sure they've got some sort of a plan for it, otherwise why make a big deal of it at this point? This release event was as much about letting developers know what they have to work with and what to expect as it was about user features - they covered fluffy stuff about as much as they did spec stuff. They just gave out information to different demographics at the same event, and let the various media people sort out what to report on.

Permanently unsafe by VernorVinge · 2013-09-10 11:19 · Score: 2

I can live with the knowledge that my passwords are inherently unsafe. They can be changed as needed. If a hacker gets access to my full finger print scan, then its game over, permanently. We do not have the ability to reset fingerprints without radical surgery. I for one will never use my fingerprints for e-commerce.

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Stay skeptical, my friends.

Re:Samsung Group by Bing+Tsher+E · 2013-09-10 14:16 · Score: 2

Apple actively needs a 'boogeyman' competitor. Preferably one with a larger market share, and a product line that includes lower-end products (but said competitor can and usually does have at least some offerings that are superior to Apple's.) They're a boutique vendor and Apple customers will always need there to be somebody to feel superior to. And Apple needs a customer base willing to pay a premium for their devices.

That's been Apples market approach for decades, and it's not showing any sign of changing.

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