Apple Unveils iPhone 5C, iPhone 5S

Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by rodrigoandrade · 2013-09-10 06:03 · Score: 5, Interesting

First, Apple releases a tiny 7" tablet, against Jobs recommendation when he was alive. Now they come up with a cheap iPhone, further eroding Aple's premium image. What's next, sell iPhones at Walmart??

Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by kthreadd · 2013-09-10 06:06 · Score: 2

Working as designed. Won't fix.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:18 · Score: 1

Before the iDevices came out, Jobs did an interview where he was asked what he planned for the computer line (I think they were still PowerPC at the time). His response was, "Milk them for all they're worth and move on to the next thing".
Sounds like this is what is happening. The people at Apple know they have to come up with something. Maybe they're just treading water until they figure out what move to make.
Or... maybe they're just treading water.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:22 · Score: 1

Why not? Walmart already carries a number of apple products.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by sl4shd0rk · 2013-09-10 06:30 · Score: 2

What's next, sell iPhones at Walmart??
Why not? If they can get the cost down to compete with other feature/smart phones, then it's way better for the consumer. The worst case scenario is what we have now; tiers based on price rather than merit. When the cost becomes irrelevant due to a shared cost horizon, products are left to compete based on innovative features rather than slanted idealism.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:31 · Score: 1

Now they come up with a cheap iPhone, further eroding Aple's premium image.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you completely forget the entire history of the iPod? If you don't think that the iPhone 5C was part of Jobs' planning for the iPhone then you are completely ignorant of Apple's past.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by jedidiah · 2013-09-10 06:31 · Score: 3, Insightful

> Er, yeah, right next to the HUGE display of other Apple iProducts in Wal-Mart. Your point?
Walmart is famous for trying to make premium brands their b*tch. There have been companies that have been faced with lowering their quality or being shut out of Walmart and chose to be shut out of Walmart.
It used to be that Apple was held up as that kind of company.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:36 · Score: 1

you know what really erodes apples premium image? half of iphones in the wild having something wrong with them. cracked screens and dead power buttons being the common problems..
You mean like every other smart phone out there? The glass back of my friend's Nexus 4 shattered when he dropped. Another friend has a crack that runs across the top third of his Samsung Galaxy 3. It's not the manufacturer's fault that people are clumsy.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by ShanghaiBill · 2013-09-10 06:55 · Score: 4, Informative

What's next, sell iPhones at Walmart??

YES
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by tnk1 · 2013-09-10 07:00 · Score: 5, Interesting

That's just the thing. Jobs did not want to be involved in the race to the bottom in terms of price. If they are going to cut expenses, they are not going to want to drop the price with it.
Jobs wanted to make expensive phones that people would expect to pay a premium for. He left the problem of making it affordable to the cell companies who stepped in and subsidized it with contracts.
Jobs wanted people to pay good money for his stuff. Part of that is *not* wanting to be compared to the latest effort from some other phone at the same price point. It starts becoming a real brutal game if you join the rest that way. If the 5C is priced with a larger field of phones, there is a higher chance that those other phones might happen upon a feature or design that can beat the 5C. If Apple stays with the high priced market, there are fewer competitors, AND they have more money from sales to keep pushing the envelope. To sell, they market features and an image, they do not market on price.
I think his model, if you can do it, works. Becoming a commodity is the death knell for your company because relentlessly cutting costs creates a cost-cutting atmosphere. That sort of atmosphere inhibits creativity by both providing a lesser product, but also by making the company less inclined to spend more on talent and research. And in this day and age, that leads to not only your manufacturing going to China, but also your whole corporate model eventually being duplicated by overseas competitors. Cheap is something they can do a lot better than those of us who give our workers a better standard of living.
I'm not going to say the 5C is a good or a bad idea, but I think that dropping price in and of itself, is not going to be as positive for a company as you might think. It can be a very short term sort of success.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by CastrTroy · 2013-09-10 07:08 · Score: 2

The iPhone 5C is $99 with a 2 year contract. Only $100 less than the iPhone 5s. I'm pretty sure the iPhone 5 was $699 without a plan. If they price the iPhone 5s similarly, then the iPhone 5c will probably cost around $599. Which isn't cheap at all by my standards. Sure it's a little cheaper, but hardly cheap enough to even warrant a different model. Make it free on the 2 year plan, or less than $300 for the unlocked phone, and then you are getting closer. I really don't know how people justify paying $700 for a phone. Seems just ludicrous to me.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 07:11 · Score: 1

You guys complained that Apple needs a cheaper iPhone to compete. Apple does just that and now you complain it "tarnishes" Apple's image? Hence, Apple is doomed.
You guys complained that Apple doesn't innovate. Their 5C is completely different where it matters on the inside, leaving the outside the same to the delight of 3rd-party accessory makers, and you guys now complain that they just change "colors". Hence, Apple is doomed.
You guys complained that Apple needs a smaller iPad. Now you complain that their smaller iPad is cannibalizing the larger iPad? At least the money stays with Apple instead of someone else. Hence, Apple is doomed.
You guys are just a roomful of bratty kids in playschool. Grow up.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by sandbagger · 2013-09-10 07:32 · Score: 1

The difference was how aggressively Apple would move on. Remember the iPod Mini? It had a year on its competing products when Apple killed in June 04 or was it 05 when they announced the flash-based Nano and the shuffle. Really, they killed their most popular product to change the lead time from a year to at least two or three years. That's a company that runs and has a very different definition of "milk it for all they're worth and move on."
I agree that I think Apple should stay in the top tier and most profitable zone leaving everyone else to go for the other price points but they're not listening to me. I think the phone and computer market will increasingly resemble the car or camera market.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by tlhIngan · 2013-09-10 07:53 · Score: 1

The iPhone 5C is $99 with a 2 year contract. Only $100 less than the iPhone 5s. I'm pretty sure the iPhone 5 was $699 without a plan. If they price the iPhone 5s similarly, then the iPhone 5c will probably cost around $599. Which isn't cheap at all by my standards. Sure it's a little cheaper, but hardly cheap enough to even warrant a different model. Make it free on the 2 year plan, or less than $300 for the unlocked phone, and then you are getting closer. I really don't know how people justify paying $700 for a phone. Seems just ludicrous to me.
Here's a trick - the prices don't scale. A $99 phone on contract can be anywhere from $200-500+. The $200 phones generally are $500+
So the heavier subsidized 5S will require a more expensive phone plan, while the 5C can be used with cheaper phone plans or be bought outright (I'm guessing it's $300-400 off contract).
At least, that's how it generally works - a $99 phone will have less subsidy and can be used with cheaper plans than the more expensive phone can.
So in places like Canada, where carriers demand a 5S be bought with an $80/month plan, they can demand the 5C be bought with a $50/month plan because the subsidy is less (being cheaper and all).
Of course, the best way is to buy it outright, because on special, you can find plans that are better and cheaper and usually make up the subsidy within a year. Like buying an iPhone outright is $700, but the cheaper $40 plan (saving $40/month over the subsidized required $80/month plan) offers more because it's on special (I've easily seen double data, double minutes, unlimited text compared to the regular price "smartphone $80/month" plan). $40/month * 12 months is $480. Or basically the subsidy on the $200 on contract phone.
And that's the goal - the 5C is for lower subsidy and cost - places that don't subsidize now have a lower cost iPhone.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by ottothecow · 2013-09-10 08:34 · Score: 2

That's certainly not how it works in the USA.
The big 2 carriers don't offer a discount for bringing your own phone (like T-mobile does), and they don't require a different plan for different price point phones (they won't require data on dumb-phones, and used to have cheaper messaging options on non-keyboard phones though).
So if you are on AT&T, and don't plan to move or change carriers in the next 2 years (which is pretty rare...most people just stick with one provider year after year), you are throwing away money to not pick up a new subsidized phone when you are eligible. You are paying for the subsidy every month, but not getting anything in return. The only reasons to buy a device outright are if you want something they don't offer, you aren't eligible for a new subsidy and need a new phone. or you want an unlocked/developer edition.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by the+computer+guy+nex · 2013-09-10 08:34 · Score: 3, Informative

First, Apple releases a tiny 7" tablet, against Jobs recommendation when he was alive. Now they come up with a cheap iPhone, further eroding Aple's premium image. What's next, sell iPhones at Walmart??

Jobs said they wouldn't make a 7" 16:9 tablet. They made a 7.9" 4:3 tablet that has 34% more screen area. I would expect Slashdot to understand basic geometry and know that these aren't equivalent form factors.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Slime-dogg · 2013-09-10 08:36 · Score: 4, Informative

Apple has usually shipped the prior version of the iphone alongside their new version. When the 4S came out, the 3GS was the super cheap phone, and the 4 was discounted. When the 5 came out, it was the 4 that was super cheap (free with contract) and the 4S was discounted.

The difference now is that the iPhone 5 has been recast as the 5C, and is not shipped alongside the 5S. Instead, it is still a higher priced product, although not nearly as pricey as the 5S, and the 4S is free with contract.

TLDR: Apple has always shipped a "discounted" iPhone except for the original.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 08:58 · Score: 1

Jobs could only maintain that model because he could keep Apple innovating. The iPhone 5 was behind the curve when it came out and now... Their flagship phone doesn't even have a 720p screen. The fingerprint sensor is the only really new thing, everything else is just an incremental upgrade.
That's why Apple is looking at the lower end of the market. Their top products are now mid range anyway, and they know they have to expand their market because an iPhone isn't anything special any more.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by SimonTheSoundMan · 2013-09-10 09:06 · Score: 1

they don't sell 'em at Walmart? why not? around here they sell them at places where they sell phones and walmart like places are included..
Sold everywhere here in the UK too, and supermarkets like Asda (Walmart) and Tesco sell iPhones and have their own MNVOs. Tesco being one of the cheapest and offer iPhones on 12 month contracts.
iPads are sold almost in any shop that sells electrical equipment. Even my local Spar, a small convenience store sells them.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Cimexus · 2013-09-10 09:09 · Score: 1

Bit of hyperbole there don't you think? I know many people with iPhones and not one has had an issue with the screen, power button or any other aspect of the hardware. The only guy I know who had a cracked screen had a Galaxy S3 ... and yeah if you drop your phone on concrete it's going to crack no matter what kind of phone it is.
Now of course my anecdote isn't evidence of any sort. But given that all modern phones are pretty much made out of the same materials I don't think iPhones are any more or less prone to damage than other phones. I've owned iPhone 3GS, 4, Galaxy S3, HTC One and iPhone 5 and none have had any hardware issues (though, I do take care of them and am careful not to drop them!)
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Cimexus · 2013-09-10 09:16 · Score: 1

True, but that's the way it works pretty much everywhere else - plans and plans and phones are phones. A given plan will be cheaper if you BYO phone, because it doesn't include the phone repayment component. The US (and Japan too) OTOH work on the "virtually everyone goes on a two year contract" method and thus don't usually offer the BYO phone plans.
Having said that you can still do it if you want. The US Apple store does allow you to buy iPhones outright and unlocked. You can then use a pre-paid/MVNO plan of your choosing. It can be a bit of a pain to set up, but it does work (my wife uses AirVoice's prepaid $29.95 plan on her iPhone 4S).
We used to live in Australia and there we always bought phones outright and then went to whatever phone company we wanted, looked at their SIM Only/BYO phone plans, and chose what we needed. I much prefer it that way as it ends up the same cost or cheaper over two years, PLUS you have the advantage of being able to change carriers/plans at the drop of a hat, whenever you want.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Cimexus · 2013-09-10 09:21 · Score: 1

Teens in the west are one market, but I suspect non-western markets are the real targets of the iPhone 5C. Not 'emerging' markets (it'll still be too expensive for those), but mid-tier places like China, Malaysia, Indonesia, many south American countries etc. I'll be curious to see what the outright/unsubsidized price of it is, but if it can get down to a $400ish range then it would be quite competitive in a lot of those areas (compared to the ~$800 outright price of the full-fledged iPhone).
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by narcc · 2013-09-10 09:25 · Score: 1

It was time to sell a while ago. If you didn't see the writing on the wall by November last year, so much the worse for you. If you hadn't puzzled it out by February, well, sorry about your luck.
If you're still waiting for that $1000 mark, seek help immediately.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by gnasher719 · 2013-09-10 09:33 · Score: 4, Informative

I think they are finally admitting that OSX has been a failure. All the ad money and snarky campaigns didn't move them much over 10% market share.

That's the most stupid thing I've heard for a while.

Last estimates are that Apple takes 45% of all profits from computer sales. Far, far ahead of Dell, HP and everyone else is far behind.

And marketing money wise, Apple's spend is nothing compared to Samsung.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by gutnor · 2013-09-10 09:53 · Score: 1

Apple has also very often been left alone in the premium market. That is not the case in smartphone. Also, Apple has made cheaper version of their premium line before: macbook vs macbook pro, mac mini vs macpro, a whole range of price in iPod.
That is a difficult line to walk. Apple need some volume yet not dilute itself. Until now, Apple was solving that issue by discounting older product giving them in effect a low cost range. The problem with that previous approach is that it killed Apple capacity to change across its product range (for example introducing new screen size and connector) and could only compete year to year with its top of the range only.
The iPhone 5C changes that. Not to say it will succeed, but on paper it does not seem like a revolutionary rush move.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by BasilBrush · 2013-09-10 10:04 · Score: 1

That's just the thing. Jobs did not want to be involved in the race to the bottom in terms of price. If they are going to cut expenses, they are not going to want to drop the price with it.
Jobs kept on putting out ever cheaper iPods, whilst maintaining a top of the range model. What they are now doing with the 5C and 5S is very much in the same vein.
People really need to stop saying "Jobs wouldn't do X". These statements are nearly always mistaken. Even those where we can't come up with a close equivalent, the writer doesn't actually know what Jobs would have done.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by BasilBrush · 2013-09-10 10:13 · Score: 1, Insightful

Jobs could only maintain that model because he could keep Apple innovating. The iPhone 5 was behind the curve when it came out and now... Their flagship phone doesn't even have a 720p screen. The fingerprint sensor is the only really new thing, everything else is just an incremental upgrade.
The classic mistake that premium is the same thing as the biggest numbers on tech specs.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Apple is losing the top end of the market. Android's market share comes from cheap phones. See for example the browsing share for evidence that people who are actually using their smartphone for smartphone tasks are mostly buying iPhones.
Apple's 5C is an aggressive move into Android's market, not a defensive move.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by exomondo · 2013-09-10 10:22 · Score: 1

This is the beginning of the end... SELL APPL, SELL APPL!!!!
The time to sell AAPL was before the share price plummeted.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by ganjadude · 2013-09-10 10:45 · Score: 1

I am sorry but just because people who buy the iphone tend to browse more that does not mean that there is anything wrong with androids or that androids are somehow less phones. I really dont get the point you are trying to make here.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by giorgist · 2013-09-10 10:46 · Score: 1

There is not much original in that thinking, there is the concept of disruptive technology. It is always sounds great for a company to stick with the premium product with the high margin. The problem with that is that you leave your rear unprotected.
Companies come in that offer cheap, crappy copies of your product. Now while they are doing that, they get better and better at doing what they do. They also capture a part of the market that you are not interested in. This market also get's more and more sophisticated. Suddenly as it turns out a nice sunny morning, you are not that much different and this other company is starting to offer a product that is as good or better than yours and they are established in their market and you are cornered in a market that has no profit any more. You sell a phone for $1000 dollars, they sell a phone for $50 and there is not much difference in the phones.
Let alone all it takes is a disruption on behalf of the underdog ... and your single point of failure is realised.
The only defence is to create a buffer on its rear, but apple might have left it for too long. Much like their founder, he left treatment for too long believing he can handle his condition by "natural" means
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by exomondo · 2013-09-10 10:48 · Score: 1

All the ad money and snarky campaigns didn't move them much over 10% market share.
What I find funny is that all the snarky remarks around Windows Vista copying OSX seem to have dropped off now that it's going the other way. The way the icons fall onto the home screen is very much like the way the tiles fall on to the start screen in Windows 8, the multi-coloured plastic designs are reminiscent of the flagship Lumia WP products and the wallpaper adapting to the phone's physical color is just like what the Surface does with its touch covers. All of these companies copy eachother so its pretty funny when the company that makes the biggest deal when it's done to them decides to go and do it themselves.
Re: Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by jumboyd · 2013-09-10 10:54 · Score: 1

thats so still funny.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by madcat_sun · 2013-09-10 11:03 · Score: 1

Customer:I want an iphone... Clerk: 5? Customer: no! only one!~~ = Customer:I want an iphone... guy: with big fries and soda??
Re: Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by jumboyd · 2013-09-10 11:31 · Score: 1

the point is that people use their iphones. if you make it hard to find a browser because you have so much stupid bloatware, youre going to fail.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by govett · 2013-09-10 11:36 · Score: 1

Snobs.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by ganjadude · 2013-09-10 11:38 · Score: 1

and how does that negate from the sales? are you saying that most these people would buy dumb phones if they werent getting free androids? because since the 3gs the older model iphones have been sold for 99 bucks or free along side the new models.

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Re: Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by ganjadude · 2013-09-10 11:39 · Score: 1

or people have better things to do than browse on their phones? any android phone ive had and ive had a new one yearly since the original moto droid, has had browser access to be extremely simple. its right there on the screen, cant really miss it. I find itunes to be bloatware that makes verizons NFL app seem like something i actually want personally.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2013-09-10 11:43 · Score: 1

No fine sir. You are the idiot. Parent comment was about the computer market and that's what I was responding to. Perchance you were blinded by your rage and despair over the rightness of my assertion that OSX has been a failure. Regardless, it matters not to me.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by LordVader717 · 2013-09-10 11:49 · Score: 1

Jobs also opposed arrow keys, the iPod mini, making iPods compatible with Windows as well as third-party apps.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Wild_dog! · 2013-09-10 12:15 · Score: 1

Going from 32 bit to 64 bit is incremental?
I think your definition of incremental is lacking a certain....I don't know what.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-09-10 12:20 · Score: 1

The only problem with all these calculations is that the pre-order price of iPhone 5C sans contract, on Apple's own website, is $550 for the 16Gb model and $650 for the 32Gb one.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-09-10 12:22 · Score: 1

Now they come up with a cheap iPhone
It's not even cheap. It's $550 for the cheapest (16 Gb) model without contract.
To remind, a 16 Gb Nexus 4 is $250 these days.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-09-10 12:24 · Score: 1

See for example the browsing share for evidence that people who are actually using their smartphone for smartphone tasks are mostly buying iPhones.
I just had a look, and it doesn't seem to be indicating anything even remotely similar to what you're claiming here.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by exomondo · 2013-09-10 12:56 · Score: 1

The classic mistake that premium is the same thing as the biggest numbers on tech specs.
Well they certainly were throwing around the CPU and GPU performance improvement particularly 64bit. But it's true that the important thing isn't specs, it's about what features it provides the user, in this case a better camera and fingerprint unlock...which seems a bit light on and I suppose you do need to consider they are really appealing to 4S (rather than 5) users to upgrade but there's nothing particularly 'must have' and hasn't been for a while - not saying their competitors necessarily have either - it seems like progress is starting to stagnate a bit.

Apple's 5C is an aggressive move into Android's market, not a defensive move.
It's strategically no different to what they've always done: take the previous model and sell it at a lower price. The only change is that this time they've re-packaged it in plastic.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by smash · 2013-09-10 12:57 · Score: 1

Have owned a 4s for 2 years now. has never had a cover. Has been dropped multiple times onto tiles, bricks, concrete. It has a few minor scuffs and scratches but is otherwise fine. Sure, you could get unlucky and have it shatter, but i have never run covers on my iPhones since 2008 and they've all been usable for 2+ years despite my clumsiness.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by smash · 2013-09-10 12:59 · Score: 1

lol, good luck with that walmart. besides, the big growth market for the 5c is china.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by smash · 2013-09-10 13:00 · Score: 1

Shrug. If OS X is a failure, sign me up for more failed tech please.

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I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by exomondo · 2013-09-10 13:07 · Score: 1

It could be that he's limiting his view to North America to try and get statistics that support his argument...which, FWIW, they do if he wanted to be intentionally disingenuous.
Re: Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Camembert · 2013-09-10 14:08 · Score: 1

Yes the man's marketing talent was not infallible. You forgot to mention the Mac Cube. But very often he got it very right indeed, and like all intelligent people he was capable of changing his mind and evolve a product. I find it petty to try and find the man's marketing mistakes, considering how much he got right.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Bing+Tsher+E · 2013-09-10 14:28 · Score: 1

Right. And Android is 'linux.' And Xbox is Windows NT.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Bing+Tsher+E · 2013-09-10 14:35 · Score: 1

You're saying whatever you need to say to distract us from the people up on the top deck rearranging the chairs. The 'smart' phone market in general is made up of people who want phone and SMS and little more.
You know little about the Android market (tip: you won't learn much about it by brow-nosing Apple's product line so flagrantly.) Face it, you're an Apple enthusiast and cult member.
Personally, I wouldn't want a phone that I couldn't run Firefox on. But I'm weird about things like that. My three iOS devices are now in powered-off state.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Conception · 2013-09-10 14:45 · Score: 1

But really, the 5C is the same thing Apple has done, at least since the 4S. New version starts at 199 (5s) and the old version starts at 99 (the 5), only in this case, they made the old version better/more interesting to move away from the, "Oh, it's just last years version. Why would I want that?" for those people that aren't going to buy the latest and greatest. There is no huge change in their business plan, they are just being more aggressive on selling "the old stuff" by giving it a make-over as well.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by jcr · 2013-09-10 14:46 · Score: 1

FWIW, that interview was when he was still on the outside.
-jcr

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by schlachter · 2013-09-10 15:43 · Score: 1

and they will sell like hot cakes.

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Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Swampash · 2013-09-10 16:11 · Score: 4, Informative

I think they are finally admitting that OSX has been a failure.
http://www.asymco.com/2013/04/16/escaping-pcs/
Highest average revenue per PC sold: Apple
Highest operating margin percentage: Apple
Highest operating margin per PC shipped: Apple
Highest profit from PC sales: Apple
Percentage of worldwide PC-industry profit going to Apple: 45% (second place: Dell, 13%)
Note: figures do not include sales of devices running iOS. That's just OS X.
Yep, failure.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:22 · Score: 1

Because the Chinese can afford a $550 cell phone more than a $650 one ... jeez. What a stupid move.

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Re: Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by LordVader717 · 2013-09-10 19:12 · Score: 1

I find it petty to try and and construe my post as an ad hominem attack when I was simply pointing out that he was not infallible and Apple wouldn't be as successful today if everyone had treated his words as gospel.
The Cube was different: They tried something new and failed.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by gwstuff · 2013-09-10 20:58 · Score: 1

This is a valid point, but it should be noted that:
1) The have had cheap versions for a long time. When Jobs announced the iPhone 4, the 3GS was priced at $99.
2) They still have an expensive, top-of-the-line phone with an unapologetic price tag. That's what they expect customers to pay a premium price for.
If they did enough to make the cheap version look and feel cheaper, then they might be killing two birds with one stone: injecting a low-priced disruptive player in the market while simultaneously making the point that you get what you pay for.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by BasilBrush · 2013-09-10 22:59 · Score: 1

and how does that negate from the sales?
It doesn't negate from unit sales. But obviously it does negate from monetary sales and profit. Apple is the most profitable phone company for a reason.

are you saying that most these people would buy dumb phones if they werent getting free androids?
They'll buy whatever the salesman at the shop sells them.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by inflex · 2013-09-10 23:42 · Score: 1

Fortunately iPhones are among the cheapest to replace those parts. Hell you can buy a new Nexus 4 for the cost of replacing a Galaxy S2 screen in some places, certainly S3.
I'm no grand fan of Apple, but so far as fixing/repairing phones their iPhones generally are a lot more sane in terms of design, cost and supply [ of replacements ] compared to others.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Builder · 2013-09-10 23:52 · Score: 1

Take a look at cell plans in the UK - I pay GBP13.65 a month (including VAT) for 300 minutes, 3000 texts and unlimited data. The SIM was free. We don't pay to receive calls or texts.
Given that I keep phones for between 2 and 3 years, why wouldn't I buy a phone outright ? It's loads cheaper for me.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Quila · 2013-09-11 00:46 · Score: 1

The 5C is just the previous generation repackaged. Where in Jobs' days the 5S would be the premium phone and the 5 would be the cheaper one, now it's the 5C that's cheaper.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by coinreturn · 2013-09-11 01:54 · Score: 1

First, Apple releases a tiny 7" tablet, against Jobs recommendation when he was alive. Now they come up with a cheap iPhone, further eroding Aple's premium image. What's next, sell iPhones at Walmart??
Jobs said they wouldn't make a 7" 16:9 tablet. They made a 7.9" 4:3 tablet that has 34% more screen area. I would expect Slashdot to understand basic geometry and know that these aren't equivalent form factors.
You would be disappointed. Slashdot still thinks patent wars are over rounded-rectangles.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by adamstew · 2013-09-11 02:48 · Score: 1

That is true usually...except that Walmart isn't selling iPhones at any real significant discount. The iPhone 5 16gb is going for $649 on their website without a contract. That is the full retail price of the iPhone 5 16gb. There is no discount. So, it sounds like Apple made Walmart it's bitch and they are the ones forced to raise their prices.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by rtb61 · 2013-09-11 02:59 · Score: 1

A gold coloured phone, it's a bling phone for suckers because it ain't gold, neither in the actual material nor hardware leading performance.
Wake up, Androids market is not Androids market, it's all about choice and competition, it's Samsung's, Motorola's, Sony's, LG's, Huawei's, HTC's and more. Sub 4", 4-5",>5". Waterproof, high resolution, quality camera, stylus. All in a range of performance vs price.
One brand is about high profit marketing scams and the rest is about choice and the customer pushing for value.

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Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by tnk1 · 2013-09-11 03:51 · Score: 1

Becoming a commodity is the death knell for your company...
Yup. those Camrys were the death-knell of Toyota, that's for sure!
They were the death-knell for the American car industry, until they were bailed out...
You want to maintain an American business, with American sensibilities about labor and other things, going commodity is going to hurt you. Not always, of course, but in the long run, it is working counter to Apple's strengths.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Xest · 2013-09-11 04:10 · Score: 3, Informative

Jobs said no such thing. In fact, his quotes are even more damning when contrasted to the release of the iPad mini:
"The reason we [won't] make a 7-inch tablet isn't because we don't want to hit that price point, it's because we think the screen is too small to express the software,"
and then:
"There are clear limits of how close you can physically place elements on a touch screen before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps."
From an original news article at the time:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/19/apples-ipad-2-wont-be-a-s_n_767882.html
Don't try and re-write history just because it paints an inconvenient view of your pet company/deity. If you're going to post a sarcastic comment about "Slashdot" not understanding something then you could at very least make sure you're not outright making shit up yourself to start with.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-11 04:35 · Score: 1

There is plenty of evidence that Apple is losing market share to high end Android devices, like the Galaxy S series. It is especially true outside the US.
Apple has always been about specmanship. Every iteration of the iPhone has claimed to have the fastest processor. They loved to quote specs on their retina screens when they were above average.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Espectr0 · 2013-09-11 06:06 · Score: 1

Try 550$. Also emerging markets = most South American countries.
iPhone 5C ain't C for cheap.

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Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by BasilBrush · 2013-09-11 06:07 · Score: 1

No he was talking about the phone market, by analogy to the Mac market. Again, precisely nothing changed with regard to OSX with this announcement.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by BasilBrush · 2013-09-11 06:28 · Score: 1

Apple has always been about specmanship. Every iteration of the iPhone has claimed to have the fastest processor. They loved to quote specs on their retina screens when they were above average.
Wrong, wrong and wrong.
1) Apple has always been about design and user experience.
2) For the first iPhone (or two) they didn't even state the processor speed nor the memory capacity. Since then such details have been in the tech specs where they belong. They haven't ever been marketed on those tech spec figures. Sure, they might say that this iPhone is the fastest ever. Or twice as fast as the previous iPhone. But never as a X Ghz phone, or faster than brand X.
3) Note, they are sold as "Retina Screens" with resolution higher than the eye can perceive. As opposed to Android phones that either market "720p" or "720 x 1280" or whatever the resolution numbers actually are. User experience vs tech spec numbers.
Numbers sometimes appear up front in Apples's marketing. But it's supporting a humane description of the product. It's never about playing tech spec one-upmanship. That's what PC and Android manufacturers have to do to differentiate themselves from all the other me-too devices.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by BasilBrush · 2013-09-11 06:56 · Score: 1

Compare and contrast with the netmarketshare figures.
http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=1&qpcustomb=1
iOS 60%
Android 26%.
The difference? Statcounter is pageviews. Netmarketshare is unique visitors.
iOS certainly has more users browsing the web. It seems Android either has more people hitting refresh, or has poor caching.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by puto · 2013-09-11 08:15 · Score: 1

S2 replacement glass can be had for $4.00 USD whole screen with digitizer, $65 USD. Iphones are not sane compared to other phones for repair costs, because other phones you can open the battery compartment. The iphone repair industry is huge because of the insane cost apple charges to fix them.

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The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-09-11 08:42 · Score: 1

Or - the most obvious explanation, in fact - Those Android users that use their phones for web browsing, have longer sessions than your typical iPhone user, while others just use the web browser less.
I can even think of why this is the case. For example, many services have iOS-specific apps but not Android ones, so Android users end up using their mobile website instead (functionally, there's usually no difference, and often apps are actually written worse - e.g. my bank's mobile banking app won't even accept my password because it's too long for it, while the mobile website works great).
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Anachragnome · 2013-09-11 10:40 · Score: 1

"... Instead, it is still a higher priced product, although not nearly as pricey as the 5S, and the 4S is free with contract."
Sure, it's more expensive, but look at all of the new features it comes with.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/04/iphone-biometrics/
It sounds like they combined the once-external system that AOptix was selling to the government, combined it with some old Sony technology ( http://netsecurity.about.com/b/2007/08/30/new-sony-rootkit-found-on-usb-flash-drive.htm ), miniaturized/integrated them and gave it all to you for a modest price increase. You never have to type a password again, nor do you have to go to jail to get finger-printed. As an added bonus, the 911 operator will know it's actually you calling for help!
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Swampash · 2013-09-11 11:58 · Score: 1

If you are worried that the Apple product is too expensive, you are not Apple's target market. Apple's market is people who care more about the quality of the thing than about the pricetag.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by inflex · 2013-09-11 14:03 · Score: 1

Oh yes, you can get the *glass* for cheap, like you can get the glass for the iP4/4S/5, S3, S4 and many other phones. Replacing the glass alone though isn't possible for 99.99% of people since they're fused units with the LCD.
Here's some examples of costs from one of my parts suppliers;
iP4/4S LCD/glass unit: $35 (AA OEM)
iP5 LCD/glass unit: $125 ( original )
Battery: $12.95
Galaxy S2 LCD/glass unit: $195
Galaxy S3 LCD/glass unit: $230
Galaxy S4 LCD/glass unit: $295
Other than the two pentalobe screws on the bottom of iPhones, everything else is fairly accessible with minimal glue/2-sided-adhesive (the iPods, iPads otoh are a major PITA). A lot of budget-end screen replacement services here in Australia range from $55~$150 for A, AA, Original grade replacements on the iPhone 4/4S phones.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by Rich0 · 2013-09-11 22:20 · Score: 1

The difference now is that the iPhone 5 has been recast as the 5C, and is not shipped alongside the 5S. Instead, it is still a higher priced product, although not nearly as pricey as the 5S, and the 4S is free with contract.
Free with contract? Contracts typically only knock $200 off the price - so free with contract amounts to a $450 phone. That is a LOT to pay for a two-year-old device in a market where people tend to replace them biannually.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by DarthVain · 2013-09-12 02:03 · Score: 1

I think I would agree with the whole race to the bottom, and eroded image et al.
However I would add two things about perhaps WHY they are doing it.
1) Other markets. If the 5C is destined for markets overseas, for say areas where a 5S is unattainable, and the two would never be sold side by side, makes it a more reasonable decision.
2) I am not sure about the US, but I know here in Canada most Provinces (and it might even be coming Federally) have either passed or proposed laws about contract terms and mobile phone companies. Basically mobile phone companies (of which there are only a handful Canada) are so dodgy with their contract terms (due largely to phone subsidies, which is fueled by iPhone), cancellation fees, conditions, etc... that actual laws had to be made to keep them from ripping consumers off (or to limit how much they rip them off anyway). It could be that Apple management is seeing a trend where the subsidies are not tenable anymore, and rightly see that consumers when actually confronted with the sticker shock of what an iPhone actually costs up front, may go another way. A cheaper 5C version might give those consumers an alternative. So while yes this would erode image, it wasn't something that perhaps Jobs had to deal when when he was opposed to the idea.
Also whoever decided on "C" is an idiot. It is going to take the world about 5 seconds to come up with the name "iPhone Cheap". Not a very positive connoting word.
Re:Jobs must be rolling in his grave... by BasilBrush · 2013-09-12 08:38 · Score: 1

I can even think of why this is the case. For example, many services have iOS-specific apps but not Android ones, so Android users end up using their mobile website instead

Indeed that may be part of it too.

Where's the led notification? by Rik+Sweeney · 2013-09-10 06:05 · Score: 5, Funny

Seriously, when I had an iPhone, the one thing that annoyed me more than anything was the lack of a notification led.

That's what the S stands for:

"Still no notification led"

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Summation 2

Re:Where's the led notification? by Nerdfest · 2013-09-10 06:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

Also, still no widgets, or alternative ways to install software.
It is pretty hardware. Overprced, I think, but nice. I wish they'd either open up their walled garden or sell these for people to install other operating systems on. They could keep their 'prestige' brand while not crippling the hardware.
Re:Where's the led notification? by sessamoid · 2013-09-10 06:14 · Score: 3, Informative

iOS6 has a setting to use the camera flash as a notification blinker.

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"No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
Re:Where's the led notification? by FlopEJoe · 2013-09-10 06:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

It's horribly problematic to alarm every minute when I want the alarm sound off! Meetings, presentations, movie theaters. I even silence it even at work in my cube. I love my droid multi-color and flash rate notification LED. Different colors for different types of notifications and a different flash rate for "important" people's SMS.
Re:Where's the led notification? by kannibal_klown · 2013-09-10 06:28 · Score: 1

I can see this being a problem for deaf people, but if you're not deaf, what's so horribly problematic with the model all manufacturers have been using the past 15 years, repeating the relevant alarm sound (SMS etc.) once every minute until the user picks the phone up?
Really? All manufacturers? For 15 years?
My 5 year old Samsung flip phone only beeped once... no options anywhere to beep again let alone forever.
I'm pretty sure the iPhone only ever beeped a second time like 5 minutes later and not every minute forever like you suggest. Granted that second beep was often very useful but it was only a second beep. One loud TV show or phone conversation with your neighbor and you might not notice until the next time you need to use the phone.
I like the LED. If I leave it on my dresser and leave it for a while... I can tell right away if I got a message while I was gone without waiting for this mythical forever beep.
Granted, the LED is useless if the phone is in your pocket but it's still a nice feature for people that will put their phones on their coffee tables or whatever.
Re:Where's the led notification? by UnknowingFool · 2013-09-10 06:28 · Score: 3, Informative

General --> Accessibility --> LED Flash for Alerts --> On
Since iOS 6 I think.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:Where's the led notification? by ricklow · 2013-09-10 06:30 · Score: 5, Funny

Have you ever tried it? I damn near fried my retinas when it went off.

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"Oh God help us. We're in the hands of engineers."
Re:Where's the led notification? by vux984 · 2013-09-10 06:37 · Score: 2

I can see this being a problem for deaf people, but if you're not deaf, what's so horribly problematic with the model all manufacturers have been using the past 15 years
Not all manufacturers have been using that model. My phone has an LED. My phone before that had one. 15 years ago... lets see... I had a StarTAC... it had an LED that would flash if i had missed calls or voicemail too.
I had an iphone 3GS for a couple years, and that's probably the only phone i've ever had without one. And it was definitely a feature I missed. My wife refuses to consider a phone without an LED she relies on it so much. Her friends are pretty chatty, so she doesn't want it to beep or vibrate every time she gets a message, and she doesn't always want to answer texts right away from them if she's busy. But she also doesn't want "no notification" because then she has to OCD check it all the time and that's annoying too... LED is perfect for "check it at glance even from across the room"
repeating the relevant alarm sound (SMS etc.) once every minute until the user picks the phone up?
Maybe, just maybe, I don't want my phone to beep to bug me and everyone around me every single minute that I don't go fondle it?
Maybe I like being able to pop it on the charger and then tell at a glance whether I have new messages. So I can check when I want to check, without having to move, and without it disrupting me and everyone else around me, every minute.
And current phones with programmable multicolor led support, I can know at a glance whether its from someone important enough to get up and go deal with or not.
Critical system down at work is a different LED color than other stuff...
Re:Where's the led notification? by gstoddart · 2013-09-10 06:44 · Score: 1

Really? All manufacturers? For 15 years?
My 5 year old Samsung flip phone only beeped once
My HTC Desire C as well ... and I'd like to be able to set it to alert every 15 minutes or so if I miss a call so I don't need to remember to go over and periodically check my phone.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Where's the led notification? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:45 · Score: 1

People had "widgets" for their desktop OSes for years. How many actually used them? I am starting to think Android users use widgets just because iPhone owners don't have them...
Re:Where's the led notification? by cdrudge · 2013-09-10 06:46 · Score: 2

It's better to have a feature available and choose not to use it, than it is to not have the feature and never be able to.
I don't use 80% of the widgets that are available on my Android phone. The 20% that I do use I use extremely often and would not use a phone that did not have similar functionality.
Re:Where's the led notification? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:48 · Score: 1

...bitches about lack of notification LED....
...finds out feature is available...
...bitches about implementation of notification LED...
Sounds like someone who just wants to find something about an Apple product to bitch about.
Re:Where's the led notification? by Karlt1 · 2013-09-10 06:50 · Score: 4, Informative

Seriously, when I had an iPhone, the one thing that annoyed me more than anything was the lack of a notification led.
http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-20122525-285/ios-5-tip-how-to-enable-led-flash-alerts/
You're Welcome.
Re:Where's the led notification? by slash.jit · 2013-09-10 07:04 · Score: 1

You will have to keep your phone with front facing up to see the notification. I wouldn't prefer that.
Re:Where's the led notification? by narcc · 2013-09-10 07:11 · Score: 5, Insightful

Or, you know, the blinding flash isn't a suitable alternative to the notification LED.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Where's the led notification? by Nerdfest · 2013-09-10 07:18 · Score: 2, Insightful

Very much so, and with many good reasons. They are tryng to make it acceptable to lock users to proprietary formats, protocols, and connectors and not be able to decide for themselves what to install on their devices. They are also the biggest abuser (of the admittedly broken) partent system on the planet.
Re: Where's the led notification? by Nerdfest · 2013-09-10 07:20 · Score: 1

Yeah, same goes for the Google Nexus devices for that problem, and even more so.
Re:Where's the led notification? by Reverand+Dave · 2013-09-10 07:21 · Score: 2

I can actually see the fact they are deaf as being a bigger issue than the lack of a flashy light. Besides if they are deaf and buying an iPhone, they are not only without hearing, they lack any kind of sense at all.

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I got here through a series of tubes
Re:Where's the led notification? by balbus000 · 2013-09-10 07:23 · Score: 2

How do I edit or delete a post here ?
No :P
Re:Where's the led notification? by gstoddart · 2013-09-10 07:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

So you mean you actually check your phone during meetings, instead of keeping it in your pocket and not letting it steal your attention? Wow.
Don't take this wrong, but do you go to many meetings?
I've had the person running the meeting constantly checking their phone during the meeting.
I had one manager a several years ago that got so bad I basically said "I'm not having a meeting with you if you bring your damned phone" -- because he'd miss what you said, ask you a question, and then while you were giving the answer he'd check his phone again and miss what you said a second time.
One day I got up and walked out of the meeting and left him sitting there.
In my experience, an awful lot of people are checking their phones pretty much constantly, and to the detriment of everyone around them and what they're trying to do.
You might be amazed to see just how many phones are being checked during meetings, and often people are trying to respond to emails concurrent with trying to listen to you.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Where's the led notification? by gstoddart · 2013-09-10 07:39 · Score: 3, Informative

Besides if they are deaf and buying an iPhone, they are not only without hearing, they lack any kind of sense at all.
Well, they could be primarily using it for texting and as a web device.
The fraction of time that I use my cellphone for a voice call compared to what else I use it for is tiny.
But googling for "iphone deaf people" comes up with various apps and settings which are intended to make it easier for them -- so it's not like no deaf person has ever owned an iPhone (or a cell phone in general).

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Where's the led notification? by jeffmflanagan · 2013-09-10 07:46 · Score: 1

LOL. You're using the remnants of an old, once excellent and popular blog, that's still very web 1.0. There's no point in upgrading the software when they've already lost much of the user-base, and the quality of articles and comments are now so low. They're just riding it out to take in as much income as possible before it completely implodes.
Re:Where's the led notification? by Cinder6 · 2013-09-10 07:46 · Score: 1

Actually, you have been able to use the camera's LED flash for notifications for a while. It doesn't keep flashing, though (thank God, as that thing's bright).

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If you can't convince them, convict them.
Re:Where's the led notification? by mattack2 · 2013-09-10 07:53 · Score: 1

What did you say? I was too busy playing poker.
Re:Where's the led notification? by idji · 2013-09-10 08:08 · Score: 1

There is a notification led!! Settings/General/Availability/hearing/LEDFlashForAlerts!
Re:Where's the led notification? by Dixie_Flatline · 2013-09-10 08:17 · Score: 2

That ridiculous. Do you have scissors built into your phone? A laser pointer, dog whistle, tissue dispenser or espresso maker? Why not? Isn't it better to have the feature available?
Even if we don't consider the realm of the obviously bad ideas, elegance is not about having as much stuff in one box as possible, it's about having as little as possible to get the job done properly. If my phone is stuffed with software that I never use and will never use, it's just a waste of my time and storage. The whole point of having app stores is so that you buy the stuff that you want to augment the functionality of your phone.
Wouldn't it be better if your phone came with the 20% of stuff that you use and left the other 80% out?
Re:Where's the led notification? by mjhans · 2013-09-10 08:21 · Score: 1

Not the same. It only blinks once. Meaning you have to see it when it comes in. A decent indicator means you can wander in, say, oh, and hour later, and see it.
Re:Where's the led notification? by mjhans · 2013-09-10 08:27 · Score: 1

Not the same. It blinks only once. I decent indicator will flash discretely in perpetuity. So that I can glance at it from afar, even coming in an hour later, to see if I need to pick up or touch the phone.

You're Welcome.
Thanks For Understanding My Problem
Re:Where's the led notification? by rvw · 2013-09-10 08:27 · Score: 1

LOL. You're using the remnants of an old, once excellent and popular blog, that's still very web 1.0.
There's no point in upgrading the software when they've already lost much of the user-base, and the quality of articles and comments are now so low. They're just riding it out to take in as much income as possible before it completely implodes.
I'm glad we can't edit posts. This is how it should be here and it should stay that way.
Re:Where's the led notification? by zieroh · 2013-09-10 08:28 · Score: 2

It's better to have a feature available and choose not to use it, than it is to not have the feature and never be able to.
False. Every single feature increases system complexity, saps development and quality resources, and increases development cost. Most of those features also impose additional complexity on the UI itself.
Anyone who has ever developed a system of even moderate complexity understands this principal intrinsically. I have to assume by your comment that you don't write code or design HW for a living.

--
People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
Re:Where's the led notification? by zieroh · 2013-09-10 08:31 · Score: 2

One day I got up and walked out of the meeting and left him sitting there.
How long before he noticed you were gone?

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People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
Re:Where's the led notification? by RazzleFrog · 2013-09-10 08:47 · Score: 1

So basically you are saying that they provide a dumbed down experience for people who can't handle more than one button. That's basically what they've been doing for the last 15 years. Turns out playing to the lowest common denominator is a good business.
Re:Where's the led notification? by WillAffleckUW · 2013-09-10 09:00 · Score: 1

That ridiculous. Do you have scissors built into your phone? A laser pointer, dog whistle, tissue dispenser or espresso maker? Why not? Isn't it better to have the feature available?
Espresso maker?
There's an app for that.
Works well with the solar espresso device from REI.

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-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Re:Where's the led notification? by WillAffleckUW · 2013-09-10 09:02 · Score: 1

They do have an alert that sounds when there is an Amber Alert, however.
I had my phone for months before they triggered it - found it in settings and turned it OFF.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

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-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Re:Where's the led notification? by Rude+Turnip · 2013-09-10 09:43 · Score: 1

The iPhone has as many hard buttons as the Galaxy S#. Having used both phones, the Galaxy (moreso the newer models, not so much the S1) adds "stuff" that does not enhance functionality.

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Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Re:Where's the led notification? by LynnwoodRooster · 2013-09-10 09:46 · Score: 1

Maybe they are like me (I am not deaf). I talk ~15 minutes a month (TOPS), but do dozens to low hundreds of texts and e-mails every day on my phone. Communication isn't just verbal. I like have an LED that flashes discretely on my desk, rather than a buzzer. It doesn't interrupt the music streaming on my desk nearly as much...

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Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Re:Where's the led notification? by LynnwoodRooster · 2013-09-10 09:49 · Score: 1

I like the way my Galaxy Note II does it - small, unobtrusive, and multi-colored to tell me what kind of notification it is.

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Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Re:Where's the led notification? by jtmach · 2013-09-10 09:49 · Score: 1

They're so over widgets, that they called them tiles, and filled your screen with them.
Re:Where's the led notification? by Reverand+Dave · 2013-09-10 10:17 · Score: 1

Can I go ahead and explain how my sarcasm was lost on you?

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I got here through a series of tubes
Re:Where's the led notification? by exomondo · 2013-09-10 10:28 · Score: 1

That ridiculous. Do you have scissors built into your phone? A laser pointer, dog whistle, tissue dispenser or espresso maker? Why not? Isn't it better to have the feature available?
Widgets are just software, adding it isn't like adding the hardware things you suggest, obviously. So no, whilst your argumentum ad absurdum is ridiculous GP's point is valid (even though I don't actually agree with it).
Re:Where's the led notification? by dinfinity · 2013-09-10 10:28 · Score: 1

Well, it may be a terrible fucking workaround, but at least the functionality doesn't depend on other unrelated settings:
"For the LED flash feature to work, you will need to put your phone in silent mode by turning off vibration in Settings > Sounds and also flipping the switch on the side of your phone to turn off the ringer"
Apple, the master of usability. You know, it just works super-intuitively.
Re:Where's the led notification? by ganjadude · 2013-09-10 10:50 · Score: 1

to be fair, if you need a cnet article to explain something as simple as get a flashing LED notification, something ive had on all my cell phones since 2000, thats a design flaw.

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have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Re:Where's the led notification? by EvilSS · 2013-09-10 11:11 · Score: 1

I have it turned on. I still sometimes wake up thinking there is a thunder storm in the area because it goes off when the alarm does.

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I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
Re:Where's the led notification? by printman · 2013-09-10 11:58 · Score: 1

Under Settings->General->Accessibility->LED Flash for Alerts

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I print, therefore I am.
Re:Where's the led notification? by ganjadude · 2013-09-10 12:19 · Score: 1

and clearly they do if there is a cnet article about it... or is this the same thing when jobs told us we didnt need copy and paste and apple fans agreed, until droid could do it and then apple fixed the issue with the next version of the iphone??

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have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Re:Where's the led notification? by Wild_dog! · 2013-09-10 12:20 · Score: 1

Well put Z
Re:Where's the led notification? by Wild_dog! · 2013-09-10 12:23 · Score: 1

Interesting... when I come back after an hour I just pick up my phone and check it since there are always messages or email to check. The LED would be just an extra battery drainer for me. Your mileage may vary.
Re:Where's the led notification? by DrEldarion · 2013-09-10 13:06 · Score: 1

No way, the Google Now widget is indispensable.
When I turn on my phone in the morning, it tells me how long it'll take me to get to work, the current weather, any out-of-the-ordinary movement of the stocks I have in Google Finance, flight information if I have any coming up, release dates of video games movies or albums, etc. etc.
Pretty wonderful, and way more "magical" and "innovative" than anything Apple has done recently.
Re:Where's the led notification? by exomondo · 2013-09-10 13:39 · Score: 1

No, you clearly don't understand the concept of argumentum ad absurdum. Comparing the ability to have widgets to pre-loaded spyware bloat means you're either a complete moron or being intentionally stupid.
Re:Where's the led notification? by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:23 · Score: 1

Apple nerds never admitted the notification tray on Android was any good until Apple suddenly "invented" it a couple years ago.
Come on.

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:Where's the led notification? by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:24 · Score: 1

I do love the notification LED ... "oh its blue, I don't care ... "

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:Where's the led notification? by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:25 · Score: 1

Hmm ... might need to look up an app to use the flash on my Android phone as part of the alarm ringer :)
That said, I can't imagine it for notifications other than serious alarms.

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:Where's the led notification? by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:26 · Score: 1

Editing a post would possibly make the replies to that post irrelevant. Preview, commit.

--
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:Where's the led notification? by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:27 · Score: 1

Flip the phone over ... duh.

--
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:Where's the led notification? by quenda · 2013-09-10 18:39 · Score: 1

Notification LEDs are passe. I loved the always-on AMOLED display on the Nokia phones (RIP) with time and notification icons.
Why don't all AMOLED phones do this? (Not possible on LCD due to power drain.)
Re:Where's the led notification? by BasilBrush · 2013-09-10 22:56 · Score: 1

My friends phone that often annoys me has bright blue LEDs on both side edges. There's no way to turn it that doesn't annoy. The only solution is to cover it with something.
Duh to you too.
Re:Where's the led notification? by slash.jit · 2013-09-11 02:06 · Score: 1

First point makes sense although I hate preview-commit for some reason I don't understand.
Re:Where's the led notification? by slash.jit · 2013-09-11 02:42 · Score: 1

Oh.. I thought it stands for Sucks.. you know like iPhone 5Sucks
Re:Where's the led notification? by EvilSS · 2013-09-12 00:44 · Score: 1

You hear "Uh, your pants are flashing" a lot

--
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Re:Where's the led notification? by Dixie_Flatline · 2013-09-16 02:19 · Score: 1

Not at all. Useless things tacked on are STILL USELESS THINGS.
They still have an actual impact on the usage of the phone. You want me to come up with software things? Fine: why doesn't my phone come with an emulator for a Cray Y-MP? What about apps specifically for reminding me to water my plants and a widget that does nothing but emit a high pitched whine? Or a dog whistle app?
It's all garbage. The agumentum ad absurdum is just as relevant for physical features as software ones (you can't think of any superfluous physical features of any phones?) and they all fall into the same category: useless things on my phone that I don't want and shouldn't be burdened with when I take it out of the box.
Re:Where's the led notification? by exomondo · 2013-09-16 11:32 · Score: 1

The agumentum ad absurdum is just as relevant for physical features as software ones
Yes it is, and for some reason you can't make your argument without resorting to that logical fallacy.

Fingerprint database, anyone? by carlhaagen · 2013-09-10 06:07 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm not an anti-Apple dullard, believe me, but this thought must've stricken at least a few of the readers.

Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by sessamoid · 2013-09-10 06:11 · Score: 5, Informative

The fingerprint is saved locally and encrypted on the individual phone's A7 chip. Never goes to iCloud. Never touches Apple servers.

--
"No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by ThomasBHardy · 2013-09-10 06:12 · Score: 1, Informative

According to the speakers at the event, the fingerprint data is not transferred to any servers or backed up in icloud for precisely these security issues.

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Warning: Teh poster of this messaeg is lysdexic
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by LDAPMAN · 2013-09-10 06:13 · Score: 1

Supposedly it's embedded in the A7 processor and cannot be accessed by anything but the authentication software.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:15 · Score: 5, Funny

ah... so in other words, it's only available to the NSA.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by _xeno_ · 2013-09-10 06:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

The fingerprint is saved locally and encrypted on the individual phone's A7 chip. Never goes to iCloud. Never touches Apple servers.
Ah, so we've looked through the source code and hardware design to verify that's the case? I mean, the source code and hardware are open, so we can verify them, and the phone is open so we can verify that the binary on the phone matches the source code we have, right?
What's that, no on all counts?
Yeah, no, I think I'll pass on trusting Apple with anything, especially considering that their privacy policy (still) says that they track your every move - but it's OK, because they don't attach it to your name, just an unique ID that's attached to your phone that's attached to your name.

--
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by skiminki · 2013-09-10 06:21 · Score: 2

And you honestly think that NSA or whatever won't be able to fetch that data from the phone?
One day someone leaves a bag full of stuff with fingerprints somewhere, then they'll have all the justification they need for a worldwide fingerprint db...
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by LDAPMAN · 2013-09-10 06:22 · Score: 1

There is no "key" in the sense you mean. It's hardware based encryption, just like a smart card.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by n5vb · 2013-09-10 06:25 · Score: 1

The fingerprint is saved locally and encrypted on the individual phone's A7 chip. Never goes to iCloud. Never touches Apple servers.
Encrypted, or hashed?
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by gstoddart · 2013-09-10 06:35 · Score: 1

The fingerprint is saved locally and encrypted on the individual phone's A7 chip. Never goes to iCloud. Never touches Apple servers.
Do we know this for fact?
Because if one's tin-foil hat was a little snug, you might conclude the NSA has informed Apple they require that to be uploaded to them so that people are providing their own fingerprints.
I have nothing to substantiate this, but I sure as hell wouldn't consider using fingerprint as an unlock mechanism.
The reality is, with the Patriot Act and all we've been hearing, you have no idea if that is being uploaded or not, and the people involved wouldn't tell you anyway.
Being an American controlled company these days means it's not possible to assume the NSA hasn't co-opted some of your stuff.
It's almost safer to assume (and with a fairly good chance of being correct) such things are compromised and treat them accordingly.

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Just+Some+Guy · 2013-09-10 06:36 · Score: 3, Interesting

Not to dispute your paranoid premise, but... I've personally helped out with a "Child Identification Program" activity where we made videos of kids, took some standardized pictures, took fingerprints (using paper and ink, not digital scanners), and collected a cheek swab DNA sample. When we were done, every single shred of data we collected was gathered up and given to the parents for safekeeping. We had neither the interest nor the capability of storing "backups". Please don't talk parents out of making identification kits of their kids.

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Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by ThatAblaze · 2013-09-10 06:40 · Score: 5, Interesting

So, let me get this straight. Whenever a user gets arrested the police already take that user's fingerprint. Your phone is now locked with your fingerprint, so the police will no longer have to ask to unlock your phone? Merely by being arrested and owning an iPhone they could claim you have given them implied access to your phone.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by seven+of+five · 2013-09-10 07:02 · Score: 4, Interesting

If you have your iPhone locked with the fingerprint thing, and the cops want to see what's on your phone, can they compel you to press the button?
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by sessamoid · 2013-09-10 07:03 · Score: 1

The fingerprint is saved locally and encrypted on the individual phone's A7 chip. Never goes to iCloud. Never touches Apple servers.
Do we know this for fact?
Do we really know anything for fact? If your tin foil hat is sufficiently snug, you would not believe anything at all about anything. Apple has a history of exaggerating or selectively picking performance metrics, but not out and out lying about privacy and security features.

--
"No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 07:04 · Score: 1

My thoughts exactly. Apple just basically introduced the first truly global fingerprint database.
The Feds must be popping champagne corks like a hooker popping ex right now.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by ColdWetDog · 2013-09-10 07:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

WHY are you worried about a fingerprint? NSA has lots more useful information about you, they don't need the wetware. If anyone actually DOES want your fingerprint, following you surreptitiously for a day will give them lots of chances to pull one (or all ten). It would be just as useful as your unlock code, ie, not. They've got the real data without getting near your phone.

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Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by ColdWetDog · 2013-09-10 07:10 · Score: 1

What? No.
The phone doesn't have your fingerprint - it stores a digital value based on some point mapping from a scanner that relates to your fingerprint. Just putting a picture of a fingerprint is not going to unlock the phone.
Unless the police or whomever could take their digital copy of the print, convert it to whatever (likely encrypted) value for the scanner and inject it into the phone, they can''t do jack. What they COULD do is grab your hand and jam it onto the phone, that would be possible. But if they're into that sort of thing they could just as soon threaten you with a rubber hose.
And if you're doing some illegal while carrying any cell phone, you belong in the 'dumbass behind bars' category. They don't need to touch the phone to get you in trouble.

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Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2013-09-10 07:18 · Score: 2

Ah, so we've looked through the source code and hardware design to verify that's the case? I mean, the source code and hardware are open, so we can verify them, and the phone is open so we can verify that the binary on the phone matches the source code we have, right?
This is getting silly. Unless you're doing this for all of the binaries that are running on your own individual phone, having an OS that's (only partly, in the case of Android) open-source is nothing more than a philosophical choice - there's no security advantage.
I'm disgusted by the NSA's behavior, and I'm wary about lies of omission from all these companies - including Apple and Google. But when they make a clear, unequivocal statement of fact, I choose to believe them. Legally they could get an expensive new hole ripped for them in court if it turned out they were lying.

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#DeleteChrome
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by angel'o'sphere · 2013-09-10 07:30 · Score: 1

Seems a lot of people don't understand the difference between a processor, memory (ram) and long term storage (flash, hard disk).
In the A7 certainly nothing is stored. With nothing I mean _nothing at all_ not even a finger print :D

--
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by oji-sama · 2013-09-10 07:31 · Score: 1

Do they have to inject it? From a liveblog of the event: "The sapphire crystal acts as a lens; the sensor essentially takes a picture of your fingerprint and analyzes it". This sounds pretty interesting.

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It is what it is.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by skiminki · 2013-09-10 07:40 · Score: 3, Insightful

Besides, I was talking about a worldwide fingerprint db. I, for example, am not a US citizen.
Anyway, my concern is not NSA. My main concern is organized crime. In the future we're likely to have lots of gadgets unlocked by a fingerprint. Cars, house door locks, whatever. When phones have built-in capabilities for transmitting fingerprints to centralized databases, it's only a matter of time until someone is able to tap into that data. Someone breaks into your house and your insurance company won't pay for damages because the fingerprint sensor says you let them in...
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by LDAPMAN · 2013-09-10 07:44 · Score: 4, Informative

Actually, it is stored there. The A7 includes a cryptographic module with non-volatile RAM that stores the data needed to authenticate the fingerprint. It works the same way a smart card works. It has a "store" function and an "authenticate" function built into the hardware. There is no "read" function so there is no way to get the data out without some serious and destructive forensics.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by tgibbs · 2013-09-10 07:45 · Score: 1

If you are like most people, you trust your trash pickup service with your fingerprints (and all of them, not just one) every week. Not to mention the waiter at every restaurant you visit.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 07:48 · Score: 1

Anyone who steals your phone will find copies of your fingerprints all over it, and of course a nice clear one on the home button. It's a simplicity/gimmick thing, not real security.
Unless it's faster than swiping a lock pattern or code in I'm not sure it will be very useful in practice.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by narcc · 2013-09-10 07:54 · Score: 1

They understand the distinction just fine. You're just a bit out-of-date.

--
Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Tom · 2013-09-10 08:11 · Score: 1

Merely by being arrested and owning an iPhone they could claim you have given them implied access to your phone.
I don't think that assertion passes the giggle test.

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Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by V-similitude · 2013-09-10 08:30 · Score: 1

Does the S3 contain a scanner that scans personal biometric data in such a place that you can't possibly avoid touching it?
You're absolutely right that there's a limit to the amount of trust you can have in a device. There's simply no way to verify everything.
Fortunately, with most phones, you don't have to worry about something as sensitive as your fingerprints being scanned, so the level of paranoia about the device can be toned down a bit.
No, just everything you say or do within range of its microphones or cameras. Nothing significant.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by LDAPMAN · 2013-09-10 08:38 · Score: 1

You do realize they design the A7 themselves. They can put anything they like in it. There are other processors that have embedded cryptographic modules. Every smartcard is a SOC with persistent storage.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Wingsy · 2013-09-10 08:39 · Score: 1

So what if they find fingerprints all over it? How do they go from there to creating a 3-D version of your print? The fingerprint scanner reads the ridges & valleys of your print from beneath the skin, so you won't be able to easily fool it. And, I've read that Authentec's patents (now Apple's patents) also include the ability to detect living tissue, so if that's in there too it would make it really hard to do.

And speed? You can doubt it will be fast, but a slow reader isn't something that I think Apple would ship. After all, they have a 64-bit fast processor that has nothing to do at the time but verify the print.

As for it being useful, about all it will get you right now is to unlock your phone and make purchases. That to me is useful enough (except now that I won't have to enter my password for every purchase I will risk eventually forgetting it), in the future it may be considerably more useful.

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If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by LDAPMAN · 2013-09-10 08:41 · Score: 1

Want to add hardware security functions to your ARM design? Here's just one example of how to do it.
http://www.arm.com/community/partners/display_product/rw/ProductId/7255/
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Acapulco · 2013-09-10 08:47 · Score: 1

Never goes to iCloud. Never touches Apple servers.
*Yet*

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Slashdot. Unreadable news to annoy nerds. - wonkey_monkey
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by jo_ham · 2013-09-10 08:59 · Score: 1

FWIW, Phil Schiller's direct quote mentions that it is stored *in* the A7 - after talking about how the new SoC is a custom design by Apple (and/or their chip designer company associates). All of Apple's A series ARM chips have been custom designs, to a greater or lesser extent. There are a couple of modules out there for ARM chips that include custom, secure key storage on the SoC itself.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by jo_ham · 2013-09-10 09:01 · Score: 1

Probably not, but they might make you anyway (and then it's up to you to argue about your legal rights if it ever comes up at a trial).
You could also pair it with a PIN code or password if you're concerned about such things.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 09:05 · Score: 1

Add to that the fact that Apple would be under a gag order not to disclose the fact that they would be giving fingerprints to the NSA....
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by angel'o'sphere · 2013-09-10 09:22 · Score: 1

The link does not say that sensible information is stored on the chip/SoC itself.

--
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by angel'o'sphere · 2013-09-10 09:23 · Score: 1

I know that they realize the A7 themselves ...
Question is: what is on it?
The claim that the fingerprint is stored on the A7 I only found on *one single* news site, and on /.

--
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Elder+Entropist · 2013-09-10 09:39 · Score: 1

The specific words used are that the data is not transferred to any of Apple's servers or backed up to iCloud. They do not say it is not transferred to any non-Apple servers or backed up to any non-iCloud backup systems.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by narcc · 2013-09-10 09:50 · Score: 1

So you double down... Nice move. That's sure to change reality.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by they_call_me_quag · 2013-09-10 10:31 · Score: 1

Interesting analysis. How many years have you been practicing law?
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by rsborg · 2013-09-10 11:33 · Score: 1

So, let me get this straight. Whenever a user gets arrested the police already take that user's fingerprint. Your phone is now locked with your fingerprint, so the police will no longer have to ask to unlock your phone? Merely by being arrested and owning an iPhone they could claim you have given them implied access to your phone.
Fingerprint scanning tech has come a long way in the past decade or so. Here's an excerpt of how the 5S fingerprint scanning would work [1]:

The new iPhone 5S uses the more sensitive capacitance method. Instead of bouncing light off the print to generate a binary representation, this method relies on an array of minuscule capaciative cells, each less than a finger ridge wide. These cells consist of two conductor plates separated by an insulating layer.
Put your finger on the capaciative scanner and the ridges will cause some plates to come into contact, thereby closing a circuit and generating current, while the cells under the ridges on your fingers remain separate. The system then interprets the voltages generated by each cell to determine which one is under a ridge and which is under a valley. By combining this data the scanner can generate an overall image of the print, much as an EO scanner would, but with a much higher degree of fidelity. Another advantage is that capacitance scanners require an actual fingerprint shape to work, not just a light-dark pattern, which makes them harder to spoof.
Doesn't sound to me like is easily spoof able with anything but a super-high-res fingerprint scanner and some way to 3D print fakes that both map the contours accurately enough while also providing a capacitive bridge.
tl;dr: the prints you left on the bus/glass/phone screen are nowhere near accurate enough to fool the 5S scanner.

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Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by rsborg · 2013-09-10 11:34 · Score: 1

Sorry, link here:
[1] http://gizmodo.com/how-the-iphone-5ss-fingerprint-scanner-works-and-what-1265703794

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Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 11:35 · Score: 1

Not to dispute your paranoid premise, but... I've personally helped out with a "Child Identification Program" activity where we made videos of kids, took some standardized pictures, took fingerprints (using paper and ink, not digital scanners), and collected a cheek swab DNA sample. When we were done, every single shred of data we collected was gathered up and given to the parents for safekeeping. We had neither the interest nor the capability of storing "backups". Please don't talk parents out of making identification kits of their kids.
Your country is nuts. Why do you need to have child identification kits in the first place. Oh right, because of the continuous child abductions that are happening all the time? Oh, wait... If the kid is so fucked up that you need a DNA swab to identify them, it is too late.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by LordVader717 · 2013-09-10 12:13 · Score: 1

If I were to follow you all day I could find out your address, job, what car you drive, likely income, your friends and correspondents, what pills you take as well as your mistress or any other embarrassing secret. Ditto for all your family members.
The difference with the fingerprint scanning phone is that it uses practically no resources (you're the one paying for the scanner) and can be extended to everyone who ever picks up an iPhone.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Just+Some+Guy · 2013-09-10 12:14 · Score: 1

Why do you need to have child identification kits in the first place.
Because it costs like $1 worth of materials, but would be incredibly valuable if a one-in-a-million Something Bad happens.

--
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by LordVader717 · 2013-09-10 12:23 · Score: 1

That's what they claim. But even assuming this makes it secure, given the industry track record as well as recent revelations we have every reason to disbelieve this. The only way to verify the claim would be to review all hardware documentation and source code.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by LordVader717 · 2013-09-10 12:27 · Score: 1

Well, technically they only said it wouldn't be uploaded to any *Apple* servers.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Wild_dog! · 2013-09-10 12:31 · Score: 1

Guaranteed that this will be on most upcoming phones within a year. So prepare to be stricken even more.
Or perhaps Samsung will just come up with a DNA decoder so only the person with his own singular DNA will be able to open the phone.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 13:02 · Score: 1

WHY are you worried about a fingerprint? NSA has lots more useful information about you, they don't need the wetware. If anyone actually DOES want your fingerprint, following you surreptitiously for a day will give them lots of chances to pull one (or all ten). It would be just as useful as your unlock code, ie, not. They've got the real data without getting near your phone.
Agents sneaking into my house and lifting fingerprints is a lot more effort than it is worth to them. But if I'm making it easy for them to generate a fingerprint database just by picking up my phone, that's a lot less effort. If they want to frame someone fitting the description of a 5'4 blonde female, for example, it is a lot easier to match DMV data to find all the matches and cross it against iPhone5 fingerprint scans. They can they print that off (jello and scotch tape is the $0.50 version), to frame someone by having their fingerprints "found" at the scene of the crime.
Sure they can frame anyone they want to deliberately, but if they just need a random patsy... why opt into that risk? Ditto for criminals who get a copy of that data in the inevitable leaks.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:27 · Score: 1

Just like that location data that wasn't transmitted anywhere, but really was?

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:28 · Score: 1

The abductions that don't really actually happen? Americans are all in fear of something that's so statistically rare, they'd all stop going to work, driving or swimming if they did the math on it long before they worried about their child being abducted.

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:30 · Score: 1

You mean by tazering you and then sticking your finger on the button when you stop flopping around? Of course not.

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by sociocapitalist · 2013-09-10 22:41 · Score: 1

Actually, it is stored there. The A7 includes a cryptographic module with non-volatile RAM that stores the data needed to authenticate the fingerprint. It works the same way a smart card works. It has a "store" function and an "authenticate" function built into the hardware. There is no "read" function so there is no way to get the data out without some serious and destructive forensics.
Or a fingerprint lifting kit for dusting the outside of the phone...

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blindly antisocialist = antisocial
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by bloodhawk · 2013-09-10 23:38 · Score: 1

A fingerprint scanner is NOT A SECURITY DEVICE, It is the opposite, it is a convenience in place of a security device. Anyone that is serious about security doesn't recommend or permit users to use a fingerprint scanner as a security login.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by dkf · 2013-09-11 01:52 · Score: 1

Ah, so we've looked through the source code and hardware design to verify that's the case?
You want the fingerprint data kept locally so that you can let the authorised user unlock the phone even when the network isn't present. That's a very strong design constraint. (You can't easily verify whether the data goes anywhere else as well but that's going to be hard to do with any approach. Are you 100% sure that your password isn't sometimes sent elsewhere? I know I'm not, even when I'm using Linux; some PAM scripts are very opaque...)

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"Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by sociocapitalist · 2013-09-11 02:04 · Score: 1

The fingerprint is saved locally and encrypted on the individual phone's A7 chip. Never goes to iCloud. Never touches Apple servers.
Evidently the fingerprint is also used to validate Apple store purchases which would probably mean it isn't going to be kept only on the phone.
iPhone backups, especially via the cloud, also raise some questions about where the key (or hash?) will be kept.

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blindly antisocialist = antisocial
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by bingoUV · 2013-09-11 04:46 · Score: 1

My 30 months old Motorola atrix has a fingerprint scanner that is much much faster than inputting a password. I think it is a great substitute for non military grade security -
E.g. pattern unlock that is so common on touchscreen phones and yet has a worse convenience to security ratio than fingerprint. Pattern is trivially bypassed by low resolution CCTV footage, as well as by observation of pattern trail on the phone, both by completely unskilled adversaries. Brute force is likely to work within an hour too. Fingerprint is resistant to all these, and it's vulnerable to fingerprint collectors but only to moderately skilled adversaries.

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Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by SinisterEVIL · 2013-09-11 04:57 · Score: 1

LOL Awesome! Wish I had a mod point
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by DJRumpy · 2013-09-11 06:01 · Score: 3, Informative

Head, meat tinfoil. Tinfoil, head...
They already keep a fingerprint database. Passport? Fingerprinted. There are also 4 states that require fingerprinting for a drivers license (California, Colorado, Georgia, and Texas). Those 4 states make up about 1/4 of the entire U.S. population. People getting general assistance (GA) have also been required to give fingerprints since 1996. The same is true for many criminal history checks. Work in a government job? Fingerprinted. Teachers, Food Service workers? Fingerprinted. Foster parents? Ditto. Law enforcement, Judicial positions, handgun permits, etc. The list goes on and on.
Chances are good that you are already in a database somewhere. The same hysteria surrounded video surveillance, which is widespread. The fact that you leave your fingerprints everywhere would tend to make them less of a illegal search issue, and more of a gray area as they are often used as a simple means of identification these days.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Rich0 · 2013-09-11 22:29 · Score: 1

Doesn't sound to me like is easily spoof able with anything but a super-high-res fingerprint scanner and some way to 3D print fakes that both map the contours accurately enough while also providing a capacitive bridge.
Seems like the simplest solution is to just grab the owner's finger and push it against the button. That's the problem with most biometric systems - providing a biometric only proves (at best) that the owner is present, not that the owner consents to unlocking the device.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Rich0 · 2013-09-11 22:32 · Score: 1

Doing what you suggested would tick off the police and wouldn't sell more phones. Maybe if the average phone purchaser could appreciate the suggestion you're making Apple might consider it.
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Reservoir+Penguin · 2013-09-12 18:53 · Score: 1

Gotta get them used while they are still young, nice job Mr.NSA guy. I cant fucking believe I lived to the day when pleasethinkofcildren becomes a valid exuse to rape privacy and human rights, on Slash of all places.

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US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Reservoir+Penguin · 2013-09-12 18:56 · Score: 1

Yeah, and secret FISA warrants do not exist.

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US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by Just+Some+Guy · 2013-09-13 04:00 · Score: 1

WTF are you talking about?

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Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Re:Fingerprint database, anyone? by oji-sama · 2013-09-22 08:07 · Score: 1

Yep, no injecting needed, a bit of work perhaps. http://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2013/ccc-breaks-apple-touchid

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It is what it is.

Re:Stop with the conferences by kthreadd · 2013-09-10 06:09 · Score: 2

It's not cheap. You will pay much more with the "two year contract". Buying the locked-in computer with unlocked sim will still cost a lot.

Re:Stop with the conferences by gnasher719 · 2013-09-10 06:12 · Score: 1

It's not cheap. You will pay much more with the "two year contract". Buying the locked-in computer with unlocked sim will still cost a lot.

Any phones where that isn't the case?

iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by ThomasBHardy · 2013-09-10 06:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

I've been a fan of the iPhone since it came out. Love it or hate it, it did change the landscape and it does a lot of things really well. Unfortunately the whizzbang features with the faster processor and fingerprint scanner and such, while nifty, are less compelling to me than getting a larger screen for my aging eyes. That alone knocks it out of my "time to upgrade" category. It feels like too small of an incremental enhancement and not anything singularly so substantial that it's worth plunking down money for.

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Warning: Teh poster of this messaeg is lysdexic

Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by lazarus · 2013-09-10 06:37 · Score: 3, Informative

I'm with you. The iPhone is just getting too damn small for my 2000 year-old eyes to see anymore. Make it bigger FFS! Stupid kids...

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I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by sootman · 2013-09-10 06:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

> It feels like too small of an incremental enhancement and not anything
> singularly so substantial that it's worth plunking down money for.
Yes, and that's for 2 reasons:
1) They already got all the low-hanging fruit. The original iPhone was amazing in many ways but was missing quite a few state-of-the-art features when it was introduced. The 3G added GPS. The 3GS could shoot video. The 4 could shoot HD video. Since then, there's not a lot of big things missing. The biggest single improvement each year is now the camera -- especially since they've stuck with 16 GB storage on the entry-level model for 5 years now. :-( Seriously -- what could they possible add today that would be an "amazing" upgrade from the 5, comparable to gaining GPS, videorecording, or the retina screen? 3D? Surround sound? Tricorder?
That said, you, my wife, and many other people would appreciate an iPhone at the same resolution on a larger screen to make all elements bigger. Hopefully Apple will make one someday, but I wouldn't count on it.
2) Each iPhone is only a bit better than the previous, but it's quite a bit better than the second-previous, which is their main market -- people who are upgrading when they become eligible, 2 years after their last new phone. I bought an iPhone shortly after it came out in 2007 and for various reasons I was eligible to upgrade annually so since then I've had a 3G, 4, and 4S because hey, why not -- each old one sold for enough to pay for its replacement and I was almost always within the original warranty period. I wasn't eligible to get a 5, though, so moving from a 4S to a 5S will be quite a nice upgrade for me. 120fps video... CAN'T WAIT! :-)

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Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 07:35 · Score: 1

I had a 4" phone for a couple years and switched 6 months ago to a 4.5" screen. Can't stand the thing. Without ever realizing it at the time, I used to use one hand 90% of the time. Now any time I want to use my phone I have to stop what I'm doing, put whatever I'm holding down, stand there hunched overusing two arms to screw around with phone. Something about using two hands also effectively makes the screen smaller. It seems like it is easy to hold phone closer to face with one arm than with two.
I'm actually serious. That tiny little bit of extra height and width completely change the way of using phone. And I have completely average, if not slightly larger than average, adult male hands. When I try to use one hand, I find myself constantly inch-worming the phone all around in my grasp. Just annoying as hell.
Count me as one of the people who thinks anything above 4" to actually be worse, not better.
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 07:38 · Score: 1, Insightful

The fingerprint scanner won't be very useful. It will be slower to recognize your print than you could swipe in a lock pattern or PIN, and obviously the phone itself contains numerous copies of your print on its body so security wise it's basic at best.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by lexman098 · 2013-09-10 07:38 · Score: 1

Well the great thing about a handheld computing device is that you can.... move it closer to your face? Bigger screen = harder to reach certain elements with one hand = not so good for women with small hands.
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 08:06 · Score: 2

Seriously -- what could they possible add today that would be an "amazing" upgrade from the 5, comparable to gaining GPS, videorecording, or the retina screen? 3D? Surround sound? Tricorder?
NFC? A HD screen? A proper notification LED? Widgets? Some kind of answer to Glass or the smart watches being released? A low power mono display overlay for an always-on clock (my ancient Nokia had that)?
Other manufacturers are still coming out with big new features.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by tlhIngan · 2013-09-10 08:09 · Score: 1

The fingerprint scanner won't be very useful. It will be slower to recognize your print than you could swipe in a lock pattern or PIN, and obviously the phone itself contains numerous copies of your print on its body so security wise it's basic at best.
You know what? The fingerprint sensor is more convenient. A good chunk of people do not have PINs nor swipe codes, just the standard "swipe to unlock" (iOS and Android).
If a fingerprint sensor is easy, then more people will secure their phones from unauthorized access.
It is fairly brilliant - instead of punching in a 4 digit PIN (insecure), swipe code (insecure), you might as well just rely on pressing the button to unlock at the same time. It's just as insecure, but it's still way more secure than no PIN, swipe code or finger print at all.
It probably ranks somewhere between the 4-digit PIN and the "complex" passcode in security (yes, you CAN have passwords or pass phrases on IOS like Android, but entering it will get old within a day).
And that's the point - a lot of people don't use any security on their phone at all.
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 09:04 · Score: 1

A good chunk of people do not have PINs nor swipe codes, just the standard "swipe to unlock" (iOS and Android).
Do you really think that's because swiping in an 'L' shape is so much effort? Somehow I don't think that's the reason.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by bill_mcgonigle · 2013-09-10 09:10 · Score: 3

I'm with you. The iPhone is just getting too damn small for my 2000 year-old eyes to see anymore. Make it bigger FFS! Stupid kids...
I don't intend to be mean, but cultural marketing is very much a part of Apple's brand strategy. They've sold a lot of iGear because they're *cool*. Not having "old people" use them may be part of that brand strategy.

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by Cimexus · 2013-09-10 09:30 · Score: 2

Yep. They said their statistics showed 50% of users didn't use any security at all. So I see the fingerprint option as something for that group of users. I'll be sticking with my 8-digit PIN.
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by LynnwoodRooster · 2013-09-10 10:00 · Score: 1

Unless you're a little farsighted, which really isn't a problem at all for 99% of life, but makes it difficult to focus on things closer than 30cm. Like a tiny screen on a phone.

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Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by Nerdfest · 2013-09-10 10:13 · Score: 1

... and a tiny screen sucks for those with big hands. Isn't it nice that people can choose a device size that matches their needs ... just not with Apple.
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by JanneM · 2013-09-10 10:19 · Score: 1

"Welcome to middle age! Here's your bifocals!"
Once you reach your late fourties, looking closer is not longer an option. Progressive glasses or bifocals are only a partial solution (as your eyes get worse you can't compensate fully), and a phone is something you're supposed to be using while out and about; switching to your close-up glasses to see your email is not a realistic option on your subway or anywhere.

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Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by grumpyman · 2013-09-10 11:41 · Score: 1

Somewhat expected of a "S" upgrade. I'll be interested to see what's on iPhone 6. If they still pull this incremental thing, they can go nowhere but down. Frankly I don't think there's much more to be done with a "phone" platform. Original iPhone was disruptive because there was nothing like it: accelerometer, touch-only control, convenient app market...etc. Unless they incorporating some kind of new sensors....
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by Wild_dog! · 2013-09-10 12:39 · Score: 1

I'm not a kid, but I sure could use a smaller version of an iPhone. I am getting sick of the fact that everyone thinks people need a platter stuck to the side of their face to talk on the phone. It might be nice to have a bigger iPhone for some, but it would also be nice to have a tiny one for other people.
I used to love my old tiny motorola flip phone. Perhaps there could be something tiny like that for those of us who don't spend a lot of time watching movies and playing games on our phones.
Re:iPhone fan, but feeling dissappointed by sociocapitalist · 2013-09-10 22:42 · Score: 1

I'm with you. The iPhone is just getting too damn small for my 2000 year-old eyes to see anymore. Make it bigger FFS! Stupid kids...
That was the good thing about the original iPad - that it could be hacked into being a phone.
Annoying as hell that the newer ones cannot just to force us into buying two devices from them instead of one. Has me considering other options for sure.

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blindly antisocialist = antisocial

The 5C isn't even cheap by iONiUM · 2013-09-10 06:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm sorry, but the 5C is $99 on contract, which is similar to many Android phones that are better. In addition, the off-contract price is $599 (CAD) for 5C 16GB... how is that a "cheap" phone? The nexus is, what, $350? Give me a break.

Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by Microlith · 2013-09-10 06:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

This is why Apple likes the US cellular model. They get heavy subsidization via the carriers who lock users in for 2 years and don't see the actual price.
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by notanalien_justgreen · 2013-09-10 06:38 · Score: 1

Yeah, I agree. I don't see that much differentiation between the 5S and 5C. If people want a cheap option - won't they just buy the 4S for $0 up front? What demographic is the 5C for?
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by LDAPMAN · 2013-09-10 06:49 · Score: 4, Informative

No differentiation? I hate to repeat myself but...
1. non-plastic case
2. Better camera
3. Fingerprint sensor
4. Motion co-processor
5. 64bit A7 processor with double the CPU and GPU performance of the old proc
Yea...nothing different there for your $100
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by cdrudge · 2013-09-10 06:52 · Score: 1

Agreed. The S4 at T-mobile is $99 up front and while it has a different feature set, I think looks better overall for usable features that matter.
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by achbed · 2013-09-10 06:56 · Score: 1

It's for those where the 4S and 5 models are not available because of LTE band issues. The new models have a much wider range of radio frequencies that they can use. This means that China Mobile and others can now sell the phone where the 4S and 5 simply wouldn't work at all.
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by corvax · 2013-09-10 08:25 · Score: 1

The nexus 4 is $199 for 8gb and $249 for 16 gb
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by Skuld-Chan · 2013-09-10 08:43 · Score: 2

Nexus 4 is 199 - unlocked and OFF contract.
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by hypergreatthing · 2013-09-10 09:58 · Score: 1

Yeah so... how many apps take advantage of that 64 bit instruction set or the increased processing power? considering it has 2 gigs of ram, certainly it won't utilize over 4 gigs of addressable memory space. Any apps that are made to use the extra cpu and 64 bit instruction set will be unusable by the previous generation and the 5c? sounds like a plan.
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by aristotle-dude · 2013-09-10 10:02 · Score: 2

And what apps and features utilize the full 64bit core?
The built in apps, the Apple paid apps, the new free iWorks suite of apps?
Apparently, some programs only need a recompile to be able to take advantage of the extra speed.

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Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by Cereal+Box · 2013-09-10 10:06 · Score: 1

Assuming you're on the one and only US carrier that gives you a discount for bringing your own phone, yes, the Nexus 4 is cheaper overall than a new iPhone 5S. However... if you're on AT&T, Verizon, or Sprint, your iPhone 5S costs that same $199.
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by Wild_dog! · 2013-09-10 13:27 · Score: 1

Only problem is you can't use it everywhere in the world. Good if you are on T-mobile in the US.
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by mjwx · 2013-09-10 14:28 · Score: 1

I'm sorry, but the 5C is $99 on contract, which is similar to many Android phones that are better. In addition, the off-contract price is $599 (CAD) for 5C 16GB... how is that a "cheap" phone? The nexus is, what, $350? Give me a break.
Is the off contract price unlocked?

Here in Australia if you buy an Iphone from a carrier, it was locked to that carrier even if you paid full price. Once carrier that I know of even hard coded their APN's in there so it was impossible to run it on another carrier if you wanted data.

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Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:52 · Score: 1

That same $199 with a contract that you can't leave without paying penalties you mean.
That tie-in gives them a lot of value.
Don't your cell companies at least provide discounted plans for user-owned hardware?

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by sociocapitalist · 2013-09-10 22:44 · Score: 1

I'm sorry, but the 5C is $99 on contract, which is similar to many Android phones that are better. In addition, the off-contract price is $599 (CAD) for 5C 16GB... how is that a "cheap" phone? The nexus is, what, $350? Give me a break.
Depends on the apps one has already purchased for one's previous iphone/ipad and if one would have to repurchase them if switching to a nexus (or other).

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blindly antisocialist = antisocial
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by Cereal+Box · 2013-09-11 01:18 · Score: 1

Only T-Mobile gives you discounts. And they have the worst coverage of the big four providers. So that's why it's not really productive to compare unsubsidized prices. Pretty much everyone gets their phone with a subsidy and two year commitment.
And yes, you have to lock yourself in for two years to get that price. But so what? There really isn't much ability to jump around from provider to provider anyway. Only T-Mobile and AT&T use GSM, so from a technological standpoint you're effectively locked in to one provider or another. So again, that's why talking about two year contracts isn't that important either...
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by erp_consultant · 2013-09-11 07:25 · Score: 1

I think what you're missing here is failing to look beyond the "specs". I've had both an iPhone and an Android phone and my experience (maybe not yours, but mine) has been that the iPhone is a better phone. Why? The android phone (my current phone, by the way) seems to gimp out on me more than I'd like. By that I mean that screens freeze up, it crashes etc. Sometimes I'll wake up to find the battery has gone dead overnight. Other times, I wake up and the battery is fine. Using GPS or WiFi causes a SERIOUS battery drain.
When I switched from an iPhone to a Samsung Galaxy I was wooed by the better specs...more megapixels in the camera, expandable SD card storage, etc. But what I found out later was that the iPhone takes a better picture. Why? Because it's got a better lens and it represents flesh tones better. The pictures seem to have better contrast and the colors seem more lifelike to me. The idea of having an SD card was appealing at first but I found myself just collecting more junk. iOS, to me, offers a better user experience than android. It seems more polished...more fluid. I have owned two iPhones and neither of them ever crashed on me. I can't say that about my 2 year old android phone.
So I'm just left with the impression that the iPhone excels in areas that are difficult to measure using raw numbers. The specs may seem lower at first glance, and they are, but overall I'm left with a better experience on the iPhone than the Galaxy. My next phone will be an iPhone. Your mileage will almost certainly vary :-)
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by puto · 2013-09-11 08:36 · Score: 1

$35 bucks is what I unlocked mine for and I "gasp" us it in Colombia and all of latin america. And then I put my tmboile sim in and make wifi calls back to the states at no charge.

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The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by Rich0 · 2013-09-11 22:38 · Score: 1

No differentiation?...Yea...nothing different there for your $100
So why would anybody buy the 5C? That is the lack of differentiation in my eyes - the only advantage of the 5C is price, and there is very little advantage there (~15%).
Re:The 5C isn't even cheap by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-12 12:00 · Score: 1

Every time I hear about my American neighbours and their cell phone market, I'm glad not to live there.

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)

Re:Stop with the conferences by Kufat · 2013-09-10 06:17 · Score: 5, Informative

Yes.. Note that that's an off-contract price and that it ships with a user-unlockable bootloader.

(I have no interest in a flame war. It's an answer to the question the parent asked, not an attempt to start an Android vs. iOS argument.)

Please select a comment: by coinreturn · 2013-09-10 06:17 · Score: 4, Funny

1) Same old shit, nothing new.

2) Apple is dead, dead, dead.

3) Android is better because of blah, blah, blah.

4) I'm already in line.

Re:Please select a comment: by new+death+barbie · 2013-09-10 06:22 · Score: 4, Informative

5) All of the above.

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It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.
Re:Please select a comment: by timeOday · 2013-09-10 07:53 · Score: 1

5) What about their line of personal computers, remember those? I'd like a MacBook Pro with a Haswell processor for improved battery life and support for 4k external displays, please?
Re:Please select a comment: by bazorg · 2013-09-10 08:26 · Score: 1

5) every other iPhone release is 'meh'. I'll just wait.

A Sensor to unlock with Fingerprint? by AftanGustur · 2013-09-10 06:17 · Score: 1

a sensor built into the home button that will allow you to unlock the device with your fingerprint

That's called a "fingerprint scanner", right?
Apple just put a "Fingerprint Scanner" on it's latest iPhone!

Come on say it: "FingerpriNSA canner"!

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echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc

Re:A Sensor to unlock with Fingerprint? by JWW · 2013-09-10 06:40 · Score: 1

As metadata goes, your fingerprint being on your smartphone is pretty useless. Your phone is already covered with your fingerprints, the device is just using a scanner now to read it and decide to unlock. If the NSA is monitoring the communications from your phone and they know who you are (from your communications), your fingerprint is just a useless tidbit of information.
But for security purposes using it to unlock your phone or identify you to the device as the current user is pretty sweet.
Re:A Sensor to unlock with Fingerprint? by mlts · 2013-09-10 07:04 · Score: 2

IMHO, what is wrong with another authentication mechanism? Provided the fingerprint scanner is resistant to gummi bears and other trivial methods, when combined with the usual PIN, it means that even if someone shoulder-surfs, they are not getting into the device, and the fingerprint scanner can be used for a quick (but decently secure) confirmation of buy transactions, or to access an app that has photos stored out of the Camera Roll.
The NSA is very low on my list of people I'm worried about. I'm far more concerned about the security implications of getting pickpocketed while in line at a local S-Mart [1] than I am with the latest boogeyman of the week. The fingerprint scanner is a way that even if the phone was not locked when picked up, an unauthorized user wouldn't be able to get access to data stored by various apps.
What I am curious about is how really secure this fingerprint scanner is.
[1]: Even with the upcoming iOS 7 coming out which prevents activation unless the account password is used, phones will still be extremely valuable parted out.
Re:A Sensor to unlock with Fingerprint? by Dan+Ost · 2013-09-10 07:06 · Score: 2

But for security purposes using it to unlock your phone or identify you to the device as the current user is pretty sweet
Sure, unless you're wearing gloves, or when you have wrinkled fingers from swiming or bathing, or you have grease on your fingers from eating, or you have a job where you have to wash your hands a lot (doctor, nurse, new parent, etc).

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*sigh* back to work...
Re:A Sensor to unlock with Fingerprint? by LordVader717 · 2013-09-10 12:37 · Score: 1

*If* the NSA is monitoring you. If a government agency were to have access to a hypothetical extensive fingerprint database it may very well *start* monitoring you, based on some fingerprints they found somewhere.
Re:A Sensor to unlock with Fingerprint? by Xyde · 2013-09-12 05:58 · Score: 1

Even with the upcoming iOS 7 coming out which prevents activation unless the account password is used, phones will still be extremely valuable parted out.
How do you figure? As far as I can see they will be completely worthless other than for parts (minus the locked logic board)
Re:A Sensor to unlock with Fingerprint? by mlts · 2013-09-12 06:39 · Score: 1

I do agree with you; they will be worthless as a gestalt, but parting it out can mean some decent cash.
For example, the screen/digitizer, case, battery, Lightning connector, vibrator, microphone, speaker, camera, etc., all of those are worth something. Even if the logic board is unusable, a screen replacement can be worth something.

Re:So long, Apple by LDAPMAN · 2013-09-10 06:18 · Score: 4, Informative

hmm...except for;

1. non-plastic case
2. Better camera
3. Fingerprint sensor
4. Motion co-processor
5. 64bit A7 processor with double the CPU and GPU performance of the old proc

Yea...nothing different there for your $100

I bought a 4.... that's enough by mark-t · 2013-09-10 06:19 · Score: 4, Informative

I do not expect I will be buying another iPhone ever again. The device is far too tiny... It seemed like a good idea at the time when I bought it, but having used it for 2 years now, I can see that it's not all that I had hoped for.

My wife's Galaxy Note phone is awesome... reasonable screen size, and even comes with a stylus.

If Apple made something along those lines (I think the term is "phabet), I'd probably purchase it, but I don't expect that they will, so once my current contract is up (next spring), I'm migrating to an Android.

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'

Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by mark-t · 2013-09-10 06:46 · Score: 1

It's nice to have the choice. It's easier for some things...

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by ravenscar · 2013-09-10 06:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

That's why it's good to have competition in the market. I probably won't ever purchase another android phone because they are all far too large for my taste. This is coming from someone who used Android happily for a number of years. The last time I went in for an upgrade the iPhone 5 was the only device that felt comfortable in my hand. It's nice that we both have the chance to be happy with our devices.
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by mlts · 2013-09-10 07:18 · Score: 1

I also am glad Apple didn't go the phablet route. Maybe it might be OK for one model to have the 6" screen, but for a number of people, even the iPhone 5's screen is pushing it.
We have already lost some useful features (the Lightning connector and the loss of ability to have a dock with structural support for the device built into the connector.) A larger phone in general means more space needed in drink holders, pockets, docks, and many other places, and makes the device unwieldy.
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2013-09-10 07:32 · Score: 2

I do not expect I will be buying another iPhone ever again. The device is far too tiny...
Different strokes for different folks. I'm 53, have pretty poor eyesight (been wearing glasses since I was 10)... and actually prefer the 3.5" screen size that was on my old iPhone 3GS (or the LG Thrive I also had at the time) than the 4" display on my iPhone 5. I prefer not to have to use two hands to operate my phone, and with the 5 the top row is reachable but sometimes requires a bit of a stretch with my thumb (and I'm a 6-foot guy with normal hands). I really think those smaller screens were the best size for a phone. And, at least right now, I don't have any trouble reading stuff on that "too tiny" phone screen.
Now I also have an iPad Mini, which I use far more often for reading the web, playing games, and such - so the iPhone isn't my only mobile device. I understand that some people just want a single device, and there are compromises involved in making that choice. But those giant phones can't be used very well one-handed - that doesn't matter to everyone, but it does to me.

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#DeleteChrome
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 07:41 · Score: 1

I probably won't ever purchase another android phone because they are all far too large for my taste.
Your argument falls apart when it becomes clear you have no idea what you are talking about. High end Android phones are available in every size, including the same weird aspect ratio as the iPhone 5.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by csumpi · 2013-09-10 07:42 · Score: 1

Yes, I do. It's great for drawing and I also use it to take notes. My kids love it, too, on the Note 8. Best of all, pressure sensitive. It's not like the 1997 styluses that you can buy for your iDevice.

You should go 2013 and try it.
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by mikeroySoft · 2013-09-10 08:01 · Score: 1

But there's a number of styli (?) available for any capacitive screen, thus giving you choice. I don't want it, so why should I be forced to pay for one in the price of the device? It's an accessory.

WRT the size of the device, I too wouldn't mind something bigger, but if you think the Note is a 'good sized phone' I think you might need glasses ;)
I switched to an HTC One for mainly that reason, but found that it really didn't add any actual value and can't wait to switch back!
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by mark-t · 2013-09-10 08:13 · Score: 1

Nobody's twisting your arm and forcing you to buy a device that comes with a stylus... so don't criticize my preference to want one that does.

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by mark-t · 2013-09-10 08:17 · Score: 1

I didn't ever say anything about my eyesight... the problem I have with the device is that my hands and fingers are too large to use it well. The Galaxy Note II phone is a really great size and I will be getting a device with that form factor next April, when my current contract runs out and I'll be eligible for another discounted price phone.

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by mark-t · 2013-09-10 08:25 · Score: 1

I carry one of these, actually.

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Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by mark-t · 2013-09-10 08:29 · Score: 1

I have no problem with Apple making a phone the size that they do... I just wish they would come out with more options for people with different preferences.
Of course, if that's not the "Apple Way" of doing things, then it's just going to be a simple fact that I'm not liable to buy another iPhone in the future.
Because in all honesty, I'd actually prefer to stick with Apple... I've got some investment into owning such a device already and wouldn't mind being able to transfer all of my apps to another future device, but in the end, if I'm really just going to always be struggling with using it, it's just not worth it to me, and I'd rather get an Android phablet device instead.

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Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by the+computer+guy+nex · 2013-09-10 08:30 · Score: 1

I probably won't ever purchase another android phone because they are all far too large for my taste.
Your argument falls apart when it becomes clear you have no idea what you are talking about. High end Android phones are available in every size, including the same weird aspect ratio as the iPhone 5.
16:9 is a weird aspect ratio?
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by mark-t · 2013-09-10 08:30 · Score: 1

What are you talking about, exactly?

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Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by Cimexus · 2013-09-10 09:37 · Score: 1

How on earth do people sit with those giant things in their pockets (if it even fits in there at all?). A 4 or maybe 5 inch screen on a phone seems OK to me but anything bigger and you might as well just go and get a full-sized tablet (and put a VoIP application on it so you can make calls).
I suppose there's a market there for those that want a single device (rather than carrying around a phone plus a tablet or laptop), don't tend to keep their phone in their pocket (or have huge pockets) and use hands-free kits to make calls (since holding some of those giant phones up to your head seems awkward for long periods).
This isn't a pro-iPhone post. I just personally don't understand the attraction to those "too big for a phone, too small for a serious tablet" devices. iPhone 5/Galaxy S4 are fine but I'd never buy anything bigger.
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 09:39 · Score: 1

The screen is 16:9, but they made the top and bottom of the case really thick so the phone ends up being quite long. It looks unusual compared to most other phones with 16:9 screens: http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/galaxy-s4-vs-iphone-5-640x353.jpg

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Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by ravenscar · 2013-09-10 09:42 · Score: 1

Available? Perhaps. I could probably order one online and it might be supported by ATT (the carrier I chose due to great LTE coverage in my area). I'd probably be without warranty coverage and definitely wouldn't have a local place to handle issues or exchanges. Still, I could do so. Of course, then I would end up paying the full cost of the phone while also paying rates that "include" a phone subsidy. Yes, the subsidized phone model might suck, but it's what you go with if you want solid LTE coverage in my area.
So, assuming I don't want to do that, let's look at what ATT has on sale as far as Android devices...
Samsung:
Galaxy S 3 (too big), Galaxy S 4 (too big), Galaxy Note (huge), Galaxy Mega (it's a tablet - not a phone), Galaxy Rugby pro (thick, bulky, and intended for a different audience)
HTC
One mini (not bad, but not out when I bought my phone), One VX (too big), Optimus G pro (too big), One (too big)
LG
G2 (huge), Optimus G (too big)
NEC
Terrain (odd form factor)
So, as far as high end Android devices being available in all sizes - perhaps, but not readily availble to me. Why would I deal with all those issues when the iPhone (a great all-around device) is sitting right there?
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by MBasial · 2013-09-10 09:51 · Score: 1

I share your frustration -- there was a stretch of nearly two years with only absurdly-large Android phones on the market. I'm pleased with the size of my Razr M, in case you want to consider a move back. (Terrible naming, tho -- that's "Razr M", not "Razr", nor "Razr Maxx", both of which are roughly the size of ping-pong paddles.)
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by mark-t · 2013-09-10 09:53 · Score: 1

It's more a matter that the iPhone's screen is too small for me to use fluidly because my fingers and hands are too large, and I'm not exactly the most dextrous person on the block.

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by Cimexus · 2013-09-10 10:03 · Score: 1

Ahh fair enough. Yeah I do tend to turn the iPhone 5 sideways when typing (since it makes the on-screen keyboard 'spread out' more and easier to hit the right key). And I'm not a huge guy ... could easily see how it could be problematic for someone bigger.
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by LynnwoodRooster · 2013-09-10 10:03 · Score: 1

Really? You want a stylus? What is this, 1997?
I just had a really good lunchtime conversation with a pair of my coworkers, and we used my Galaxy Note II as a quick sketchpad for some ideas - and then directly e-mailed those sketches to all of us for later followup.
Turns out that being able to quickly draw and capture the drawing is a nice thing. I use it that way a dozen times a day, instead of a paper pad. I can capture my notes and ideas electronically and save them, no need for binders of paper.

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Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by narcc · 2013-09-10 10:05 · Score: 1

Yes, yes I do.
You have no idea how awesome having a stylus can be -- and how painful it was to give up at the end of the PDA era.
It's so much better for so many different applications. My phone and tablet feel so limited without support for a proper stylus. Those fake-fat-finger jobs don't even come close.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by mark-t · 2013-09-10 11:57 · Score: 1

It's the option of being able to use it when it's convenient that's desirable... Good for quick notes, diagrams, and pressure sensitive to boot.
The Galaxy Note's stylus is nothing like the plastic styluses of the 1990's.

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by Wild_dog! · 2013-09-10 13:31 · Score: 1

My problem with the iPhone is that is is too big.
I would prefer a much smaller footprint, more in line with my old trusty motorola flip phone.
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:53 · Score: 1

All far too large? There are dozens of Android phones even smaller than the iPhone.
One of the beauties of the fragmented Android ecosystem is a huge range of devices. With and without 3D, with and without keyboards, big, small ...

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by DerekLyons · 2013-09-10 21:37 · Score: 1

If I'm doing something that needs screen size, I have a desktop or a borrow the wife's Nook. A phone is a phone, not a tablet.
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by dintech · 2013-09-10 22:03 · Score: 1

I don't own either phone but I imagine the iphone is less awkward while holding it against your ear.
Re:I bought a 4.... that's enough by erp_consultant · 2013-09-11 09:00 · Score: 1

It's an American thing. It's the same reason that people still drive around in those giant SUV's. And put giant refrigerators in their kitchens. And put giant TV's in their living rooms. Seeing a pattern here? For some strange reason, in America bigger is always seen as better. It's the land of excess.

rrrrrradical! by jjeffries · 2013-09-10 06:20 · Score: 5, Funny

> iPhone 5 was a radical new design

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2012/09/iphone5Comparison.jpeg

Yeah that's FREAKING RADICAL, MAN!

Re:rrrrrradical! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:48 · Score: 1

Is the 5 the one with the full battery or the one with a working antenna?
Re:rrrrrradical! by the+computer+guy+nex · 2013-09-10 08:30 · Score: 1

> iPhone 5 was a radical new design
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2012/09/iphone5Comparison.jpeg
Yeah that's FREAKING RADICAL, MAN!
Different form factor and replacing the glass back with a unibody aluminum shell was pretty dramatic. When you cherry pick one picture that only shows a portion of the device, yes it is harder to see.
Re:rrrrrradical! by Culture20 · 2013-09-11 07:03 · Score: 1

Didn't the original iphone have a unibody aluminum shell for the back?

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by WarJolt · 2013-09-10 06:21 · Score: 1

Just cut off your fingertip...it's about the same thing.

Fingerprint novelty by WarJolt · 2013-09-10 06:22 · Score: 2

Hopefully user installed apps can't use that fingerprint scanner or I can see identity theft hit a new level.
I've used the Atrix 4G and the fingerprint novelty is fleeting, not to mention fingerprints are insecure and at least in the Atrix 4G case frustrating to use because of misreads.

Re:Fingerprint novelty by mikeroySoft · 2013-09-10 08:05 · Score: 1

I'd be happy if the thing only just used my print to authenticate locally, and then 'paste' in the actual password that I'm wanting to type in.
Ultimately, I want it to avoid having to type my email and password in all the time. If it can handle the password thing for now, that's a good enough start.
If it's only to unlock the phone itself, that's still not bad, but there's much more potential there.
Maybe people will choose more complicated passwords now that it's easier to remember and then input a lengthly and complex password
Re:Fingerprint novelty by rsborg · 2013-09-10 11:40 · Score: 1

Hopefully user installed apps can't use that fingerprint scanner or I can see identity theft hit a new level.
I've used the Atrix 4G and the fingerprint novelty is fleeting, not to mention fingerprints are insecure and at least in the Atrix 4G case frustrating to use because of misreads.
I sure as hell hope Apps can validate with a scan (or ensure that the keychain is unlocked based on a recent scan). I also hope it's something the user can turn off (for the paranoid iFanboys). The ability for an app to request an additional authentication (say for udpating account info) could mean the end of passwords (or at least not having to friggin log in every single time).

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Re:Stock price drop in 3, 2, 1... by Bill_the_Engineer · 2013-09-10 06:22 · Score: 5, Informative

How much time will Apple be able to sell smartphones at 600-700 USD?

You mean like the Samsung 4S or the HTC One?

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finger prints by beefoot · 2013-09-10 06:23 · Score: 1

NSA collects finger prints from all the iphone kids now?

Re:iPod Touches? by UnknowingFool · 2013-09-10 06:24 · Score: 1

Depends on what the iPhone change is. The last time they updated the Touch it was because the iPhone went to taller screen, new chip, etc. The Fingerprint scanner and new chip might not be enough to require an update to the Touch at this time.

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Re:Fail by jimbo · 2013-09-10 06:25 · Score: 1

Perhaps you don't like these newfangled smartphones from brands such as Apple, HTC, Motorola or Samsung (they're all roughly similar anyway) but that hardly makes people sheep for seeing some value in them.

Significant Others everywhere... by MugenEJ8 · 2013-09-10 06:26 · Score: 1

...are biting their nails, trying to figure out how to chop off their loved ones finger without them knowing.

Re:Stop with the conferences by Bill_the_Engineer · 2013-09-10 06:28 · Score: 1

I agree the Nexus 4 is a nice phone at a great price, but it isn't "high end" either. There are other similar priced smart phones with similar features. We don't really need to have the most bleeding edge phone but if you want one, you'll need to spend more money than what the Nexus 4 cost.

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Fingerprint scanner? by mjpollard · 2013-09-10 06:28 · Score: 1, Insightful

Can't think of any other phone that had one of those. Oh, wait, yes I can: the Motorola Atrix 4G, over two and a half years ago. Of course, since the Almighty Apple has now sanctioned it, I'm sure it'll now become more popular than oxygen...

Re:Fingerprint scanner? by alen · 2013-09-10 07:32 · Score: 1

the scanner is made by a company apple bought 2 years ago that made all the android phone fingerprint scanners
Re:Fingerprint scanner? by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:54 · Score: 1

Don't confuse the fanboy with the facts.
The company that did the Kinect work for Microsoft did an earlier version with the Eyetoy on the PS2 with Sony ... but that's not relevant when you're a fanboy.

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:29 · Score: 5, Interesting

Look at it from the NSA/FBI's point of view: they already have backdoor access to your phone's data, so the fingerprint scanner isn't about keeping Them out, but about securing biometric data from users voluntarily. If They tried to fingerprint or retina-scan a whole nation Themselves (like our troops do to occupied Afganistan and before in Iraq) there would be resistance; we only got away with it in Afghanistan and Iraq because we were an armed, occupying force. At home, they'll start integrating biometric scanners into cheap, gaudy (GOLD!) baubles so the Sheeple fingerprint themselves instead.

Re:Lack of sensor demo... by UnknowingFool · 2013-09-10 06:31 · Score: 2

How would they demo that other than you press the Home button and it unlocks? It's not like they'll throw up CSI style graphics showing you how the phone matches the finger print real time.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.

Re:So long, Apple by belatucadros3918 · 2013-09-10 06:34 · Score: 2

The A7 is twice as fast as what? The processor in the 5? Can we see some benchmarks?

Re:So long, Apple by mrbester · 2013-09-10 06:35 · Score: 1

If it doesn't come with a radio capable of receiving LTE from Vodaphone there'll be a lot of annoyed consumers.

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Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-09-10 06:37 · Score: 1

On the plus side, users only used to write their password on a sticky note stored under their keyboard. Now they'll be scribbling it everywhere they touch, and only have 9 resets!

Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by MarcoAtWork · 2013-09-10 06:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

I would've thought they'd bump to 128GB this time, especially given how large some apps are getting nowadays...

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Re:Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by tgibbs · 2013-09-10 06:51 · Score: 1

May be a battery life issue. Unlike some of its competitors, Apple has historically been very reluctant to compromise battery life, and if it's a choice between more power and more memory, they'll go for more power.
Re:Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by garcia · 2013-09-10 06:54 · Score: 1

They needed something to release with the iPhone6.
Re:Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 07:43 · Score: 4, Informative

No SD card slot?

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SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by csumpi · 2013-09-10 07:43 · Score: 1

Just get a bigger SD card. Oh, wait...
Re:Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by gaiageek · 2013-09-10 09:36 · Score: 1

Exactly. How would a larger chunk of flash require more power?

They didn't go to 128GB because they need that for next year's tiny list of "vast improvements".

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Re:Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by tepples · 2013-09-10 15:32 · Score: 1

No SD card slot?
Probably didn't want to pay Microsoft for the rights to VFAT and ExFAT.
Re:Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by treewojima · 2013-09-11 03:24 · Score: 1

Nope, which is one of my primary complaints with the iPhones. Such simple functionality to add, yet they insist on confining users to internal storage and forcing them to upgrade/deal with it if they run out of space. In fact, ALL of their handheld products revolve around successive models having larger storage capacities without capability for expansion. It's a marketing ploy, pure and simple.
Re:Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by bingoUV · 2013-09-11 06:17 · Score: 1

They wouldn't need to use *FAT for iPhone. Other phones use those filesystems to mount on a huge variety of computers. iPhone, famously, doesn't need to bother with mounting , iTunes goodness all the way.

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Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Re:Surprising they're sticking with 64GB by thehumble1 · 2013-09-11 06:58 · Score: 1

pretty sure it also has to do with pushing people towards online storage, especially for people who think that they need 128gb of data available all the time, which are usually the same people willing to spend $10/month for cloud storage.

Re:Stop with the conferences by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-09-10 06:40 · Score: 4, Insightful

"See Apple, the thing is, these big media events used to be about introducing jaw-dropping, mind blowing new technology."

Has Apple ever been about 'mind blowing new technology'? As long as I can remember, they've been about well polished, high-production-value implementations of technology that already existed.

Old News by gdandy · 2013-09-10 06:44 · Score: 1

All the information in this post was released 5 days ago in a YouTube video.

http://youtu.be/1sIWez9HAbA

Enjoy!

Next winter... by gmuslera · 2013-09-10 06:45 · Score: 1

.. transparent (at least, in the fingers), capacitive screen friendly gloves will be the next big fashion trend.

Finally an upgrade! by Inev · 2013-09-10 06:45 · Score: 1

I've been waiting for the 5C to come out for a while now to upgrade my iPhone 3C Shells

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by RenderSeven · 2013-09-10 06:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

Since the CIA's invention of Facebook saved the government millions of dollars in monitoring costs, it makes sense to collect fingerprints the same way. And coming soon, the Facebook "Share A DNA Sample" feature.

Re:So long, Apple by tgibbs · 2013-09-10 06:45 · Score: 3, Funny

Yes, Apple would never make a plastic iPhone...except the very first one...and the one after that...and the one after that.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by Bomarc · 2013-09-10 06:46 · Score: 5, Funny

Just cut off your fingertip...it's about the same thing.

Can't wait for new corporate security policies mandating that you change your fingerprints every 3 months.

Re:So long, Apple by LDAPMAN · 2013-09-10 06:46 · Score: 1

Thats what they said in the presentation. They also had nice graphs and and a demo of a demanding game for those that are more visually oriented. I'd expect benchmarks to be available as soon as the phone ships.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by dyingtolive · 2013-09-10 06:48 · Score: 4, Funny

Our band teacher in high school had a computer in the band room back in the early -00's (00's?), for some reason. He actually DID that.

We found out his password was "teacher". Needless to say, I quickly found out that this was the default password to EVERY teacher's account in the school. I got a stern talking to and was then invited to help the lab admin out during my study halls when I didn't have homework after pointing this out to them. It probably helped that I didn't change grades or anything like that before telling them I figured it out.

I bet nowadays kids get expelled for that, at a minimum.

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Re:Fail by achbed · 2013-09-10 06:49 · Score: 1

They were in line last week, at least in NYC. Gotta love people with (a) lots of money, and (b) no life.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by dyingtolive · 2013-09-10 06:49 · Score: 5, Funny

Also: He needed a sticky note to remember "teacher". Just reiterating that.

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What is it with plastic? by Art3x · 2013-09-10 06:49 · Score: 3, Interesting

Why does plastic make things so much cheaper? (I'm in software. With mechanical things, my IQ drops to 50. The answer is likely so obvious that will make me look even dumber.)

Why do manufacturers opt for plastic so much over metal (or rubber or glass or whatever higher-quality material is best for each part)? Phones weigh ounces, and aren't such materials still just pennies per ounce?

Yes, I know labor adds to the cost, so making a phone (or a camera or a computer) with better materials would be more than the cost of the raw materials. But still, in what seems to be my utter naivete, I would guess that still it would be just a few dollars per unit.

Why are so many things made from plastic and so few made from anything else? Does it really save the manufacturer that much money?

Re:What is it with plastic? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:57 · Score: 3, Informative

Compared to metal or glass, plastic is much cheaper to work with (injection molding), it is cheaper to ship because it is lighter, and it is easier to handle because it will not bend or shatter as easily. Cheaper + cheaper + cheaper + cheaper = cheaper.
Re:What is it with plastic? by gstoddart · 2013-09-10 07:09 · Score: 2

Why are so many things made from plastic and so few made from anything else?
Plastic is well ... 'plastic', as in malleable and can be poured in a mold. It's cheap to buy, color, and make stuff with it.
So, if I want to make a plastic piece, I make a mold and put in exactly as much material as I need, and in all likelihood any left over stuff can just be re-melted and processed again.
Now, if I want to make an aluminum piece, I should think I'd either need to mill it (expensive, difficult, time consuming), or cast it -- and I don't think casting something like aluminum works well for smaller parts.
I couldn't even begin to give you costing figures, but plastic is cheap, light, abundant, made out of readily available petrochemicals, and easy to work with.
My guess, when companies are looking to squeeze costs, they're looking to save pennies per unit, not dollars.

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Re:What is it with plastic? by ThinkWeak · 2013-09-10 07:16 · Score: 2

A few dollars per unit adds up quick when you ship 23 million units in a quarter.
Re:What is it with plastic? by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 07:46 · Score: 2

It's basically down to two factors. Raw metal costs more to begin with. Getting it out of the ground or from recycling is expensive. Plastic is basically a by-product and fairly cheap to produce.
The other big cost is forming the raw material into the shape you want. Metal needs more energy and more complex tools, where as plastic is very easy to mould and work under moderate heat. Plastic is also easier to finish and can easily be dyed for colour, where as metal needs polishing or brushing and then painting.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:What is it with plastic? by ace37 · 2013-09-10 07:47 · Score: 2

The savings happen in the manufacturing process.
Typically for this type of production volume you will heat the material to a liquid state, squeeze it into a mold, let it cool, and then kick it out to make another. It's a lot easier to squeeze and pump plastic into a die, so the manufacturing costs to produce finished plastic products are much lower.
For metals, the process looks like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_casting
Whereas for plastics, the process looks like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_molding
Re:What is it with plastic? by sometext · 2013-09-10 08:34 · Score: 1

Please take these salt grains *.,*:

Once the molds are made plastic is dirt cheap and fast to crank out via injection molding. Metal and glass parts for something like a phone are machined, which takes a lot more time in addition to the increased cost of the raw materials. Machining does have substantial advantages however: It's a bit easier to hold VERY tight tolerances which are typically an indicator of build quality. Also CNC machines can be reconfigured much more cheaply to make changes or produce a different part. The molds required for industrial scale production of plastic parts are hideously expensive until volume brings them back into line. As another commented noted, the lighter weight of plastic saves fuel and cost when shipping.

The design constraints also differ between the two processes. For example molding (at least to some extent) requires slightly angled walls to allow the part to release easily, and any undercuts require more complex/costly molds. That being said, an endless range of shapes are attainable in molded plastic far more easily than machined metal or glass parts which typically consist of more planar surfaces with chamfers/fillets. It's also possible to use FAR fewer parts if one works with plastic, which may save substantial machine time and cost. It's also much easier to do colors obviously, as an additional process (example: anodizing) isn't necessary.

So what does this mean for these two phones? The 5C may be much cheaper to produce in large volumes, which is worth noting since much has been said about this phones target Asian demographic. It may be cheaper because parts can be produced much more rapidly, the number of parts is fewer, and far less human labor is required to assemble the device.

Ironically plastic supposedly diminishes RF signals less than metal and this "cheap" iPhone may enjoy slightly better reception than it's flagship cousin.

And a wild guess: a cursory glance reveals the internals appear to be the same as the iPhone 5, which may explain why the 5 will no longer be offered: Apple has found a venue for their existing production line and potentially some stock as well.

Would love to know more if anyone else has thoughts.
Re:What is it with plastic? by steelfood · 2013-09-10 08:36 · Score: 1

Think of it this way: if the hypothetical cost of a metal case is $1, then the relative cost of plastic maybe $0.01. This would be the cost to source the part, and would not include cost of assembly, shipping of the unit as a whole, etc.
While that $0.99 difference doesn't seem like much savings, the MSRP is somewhere around 2 orders of magnitude more than the actual materials cost. So that $0.99 cost savings translates to a product that's $99 less in retail.

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Re:What is it with plastic? by Pichu0102 · 2013-09-10 09:13 · Score: 1

False. 4(Cheaper) =/= Cheaper.
Re:What is it with plastic? by DrXym · 2013-09-10 09:36 · Score: 1

The real reason some manufacturers use aluminium is not because it's a better material but because people think it's "expensive" and they can jack up the price of the phone accordingly. Indeed all the wifi / signal problems that aluminium has caused demonstrate it's a pretty shitty material for devices which contain radio antennas. It also gives a convenient but bogus excuse why the back of the device can't be removed to replace the battery or provide an sd slot.
Of course now there is a plastic iPhone there is even less excuse for not including a removable battery or memory slot.
Re:What is it with plastic? by Solandri · 2013-09-10 09:58 · Score: 1

Why does plastic make things so much cheaper? (I'm in software. With mechanical things, my IQ drops to 50. The answer is likely so obvious that will make me look even dumber.)
It doesn't necessarily have to be. Yes plastic is cheaper in terms of cost, but its material properties are significantly different from metal. Primarily, it has a much lower Young's modulus, meaning for a given stress it deflects a lot more. On the face of it that sounds like a bad thing, but you have to remember that when absorbing an impact, deceleration forces are inversely proportional to the time it takes to decelerate. Consequently a metal body which stops an impact quickly generates much higher forces than a plastic body which bends and spreads the deceleration over a greater distance (and thus time). The old HP office laser printers were a great example of this. They had a "cheap" plastic outer shell, but if you pushed them off a table they'd bounce off the floor and not suffer any damage. If you did the same thing with a metal frame, it'd probably deform and the printer wouldn't work anymore because the parts would be out of alignment.

Another way to absorb impacts is to fail in a pre-engineered manner. The reinforcing metal tubes which make up the crumple zones in your car are designed to fail in an accordion-like fashion which maximizes the amount of energy absorbed for the weight of the metal. (If a student ever asks why they need to study multi-variable partial differential equations, it's so they can do things like calculate and design the failure modes in the picture.) Unfortunately, due to metal's stiffness, that's the primary way to get metal to absorb energy - by permanently deforming.

Plastics can survive greater deflections so a common way to increase their survivability is to design them as snap-together parts which absorb energy by breaking apart. If when dropping a plastic phone, the back and some of the interior parts break apart, that's a good thing so long as you can snap them back together again. This is the same strategy used in race cars. The huge kinetic energies involved would mean a simple cage surrounded by crumple zones would be overwhelmed. So instead they design the non-essential parts to break apart upon impact. The breaking absorbs energy, as well as reduces the mass connected to the part they're trying to protect (passenger cage) thus reducing the energy the cage has to absorb. When you see a race car (or even a regular car) hit a wall and splinter into a thousand tiny pieces, that too is by design.

This is not to say that plastic phones are superior to metal phones. I haven't tested them so don't know. All I'm saying that just because it's plastic doesn't necessarily mean it's worse than metal. A plastic body can actually be made superior to a metal body. My candy-bar phone 10 years ago fell out of my pocket as I was closing the car door and was crushed. The plastic exterior survived it just fine - it deformed to absorb the energy of door closing, and bounced back to shape. Unfortunately it deformed so much the display inside it cracked making the phone useless. The electronics however were protected and still worked (I could make and receive calls, I just couldn't see anything on the display).
Re:What is it with plastic? by BasilBrush · 2013-09-10 10:47 · Score: 1

Add machining to the metal process for iPhone cases.
Re:What is it with plastic? by LordVader717 · 2013-09-10 13:00 · Score: 1

You can also integrate more functions on a plastic component (such as case, cushioning and clips), whereas the equivalent in metal and glass will probably require seperate parts which in turn have to be assembled together.
From an engineering perspective plastic is such an incredibly useful and durable material. The iPhone is a perfect example of designers forcing metal and glass into something for aesthetic reasons. If you want functionality you go with plastic.
Re:What is it with plastic? by xigxag · 2013-09-10 13:00 · Score: 1

In terms of the iPhone, the actual manufacturing cost of plastic is irrelevant. Apple are trying to have their cake and eat it. They want to continue to be known as a premium brand, but they also want to move into the downscale market with a desirable contemporary product. So they introduce a "cheap" phone made of plastic which still has a classy feel, and that way low-income people can experience a bit of the premium cachet. Meanwhile the "expensive" metal/glass phone is clearly differentiated and doesn't get tainted with the whiff of their cheaper plastic product. An iPhone owner can walk around with the full-price 5s and still feel superior to the plebs stuck with their cheap 5c devices. In fact, having that cheaper product available could allow them to raise the premium pricing on their luxury device: some people will willingly pay extra for the "privilege" of owning the luxury model, and will prefer that the device stay expensive. For this strategy to work, it's not necessary that the cheaper product be literally cheaper to make or be cheaper quality, just that it be perceived as inferior.

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Re:What is it with plastic? by DigiShaman · 2013-09-10 17:12 · Score: 1

Plastics are easy to mold vs casting metal and machining. Also, the material of plastic is plentiful as the raw source material comes from crude oil.

--
Life is not for the lazy.
Re:What is it with plastic? by u38cg · 2013-09-10 22:26 · Score: 1

In terms of the volume of something like an iPhone, it just doesn't. It's purely for the benefit of the consumer.

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[FUCK BETA]
Re:What is it with plastic? by thehumble1 · 2013-09-11 07:02 · Score: 1

One of the best reasons to use aluminum is because it's so easy to reuse mill waste. Most plastics can't be melted down into the same plastic again, that's why recycling doesn't produce new soda bottles and copiers. Aluminum recycling is almost 100% efficient in material and Apple is plenty big enough to not have to worry about tooling for aluminum since they already build the macbook from it. looks like they are moving to Liquidmetal possibly though, which is really a plastic alloy. Should be the best of both worlds.

Re:Android user, was going to switch by tgibbs · 2013-09-10 06:49 · Score: 1

Actually, the screen is larger than on the iPhone 4, although as is expected with the alternate-year "s" models, it is the same size as on the iPhone 5.

Re:So long, Apple by achbed · 2013-09-10 06:51 · Score: 2

According to the presentation, the A7 is (a) 64-bit, (b) about twice as fast as the previous iPhone 5's A6 chip, and (c) has double the transistors, which I read as a significant die shrink (~25%). And offloading sensor tracking to a co-processor (the new M7 chip) frees up additional CPU cycles for other things.

Re:Ugh... stuck at 64GB... by achbed · 2013-09-10 06:53 · Score: 1

This is not the Droid you're looking for....

Seriously. If you don't buy into the Apple "this is all you need" hype, then you're not their target market.

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:53 · Score: 1

apple has said fingerprints are stored only on the device. sure, it's possible the nsa has a back door, but i really doubt it. but think whatever you want while wearing your tinfoil hat, i guess.

the government already has my fingerprints from government contracts anyway, so it doesn't matter to me in the least. you'd have to be an idiot to commit a crime without wearing gloves anyway.

really, who cares about fingerprints? the government already knows everything about you anyway - social security number, name, address, tax history, etc.

Re: Stop with the conferences by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 06:55 · Score: 1

they've announced jaw dropping, mind blowing technology exactly twice in the last ten years: the iphone and the ipad. this was a typical apple event, not a deviation from the norm. they announced incremental upgrades, just like they almost always have.

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by Cyberax · 2013-09-10 06:58 · Score: 1

23andMe already pioneered this!

Seriously, they have this feature.

There's already a line at AAPL for the new iPhones by JoeyRox · 2013-09-10 06:59 · Score: 1

It's filled with shareholders selling their shares after finally realizing the company will never to return to its former glory without a strong visionary like Jobs at the helm.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by thomasw_lrd · 2013-09-10 07:00 · Score: 2

My fingertip for a mod point.

--
21st Century Renaissance Man

Re:Stop with the conferences by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 07:08 · Score: 1

I'm biased, because I have a Nexus 4, but I consider the latest Android from Google to be 'bleeding edge', and so if there is better hardware out there, but it doesn't get the OS updates, or it uses iOS, then it's not bleeding edge. Just my opinion, of course. But by my definition, the Nexus 4 is bleeding edge, and will be until there is a new Nexus.

Need some more tinfoil for that hat? by King_TJ · 2013-09-10 07:08 · Score: 5, Insightful

I mean, fine with me if you distrust Apple so much, you suspect they'd stoop to uploading the locally stored fingerprint data to a central server and hang onto all of that data. (Never-mind the fact you'd think if they had an interest in doing so, they would have designed the iPhone 5s so the data synced with their servers in the first place.)

But how far does this distrust go? Your cellphone carrier can track your movements as long as your cellphone is powered on, you know.... What if they're selling that info to someone? Seems to me you better pass on a cellular phone, period!

Re:Need some more tinfoil for that hat? by ArcadeMan · 2013-09-10 09:08 · Score: 1

Is your sentence over, over?

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Re:Need some more tinfoil for that hat? by ganjadude · 2013-09-10 10:56 · Score: 1

has nothing to do with if they have any interest in doing it or not. with the news over the past few months its not unlikely that they would have FISA court orders forcing them to keep the info and turning it over. 5 months ago the majority of americans had no idea that the NSA was watching their every move (most of us here did) so why would you think that if apple had access to a vast fingerprint database, given to them voluntarily, that they wouldnt be forced to hand it over??

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non phone case by Hamsterdan · 2013-09-10 07:08 · Score: 1

Pretty bad design. The new 5C cases make it look like it's a nonphone.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/accessories/#iphone-5c-cases

--
I've got better things to do tonight than die.

Re:non phone case by xclr8r · 2013-09-10 08:10 · Score: 1

Just a note that these phone colors are exactly the same colors that are on the gym shoes (bright full colored pastels/neons) the girls on campus are wearing. They just showed up this semester.

--
Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
Re:non phone case by fnj · 2013-09-10 08:13 · Score: 1

I assume they are for 13 year old girls.

Can't wait until next year... by MachDelta · 2013-09-10 07:09 · Score: 2

...when Apple announces their "6C" new phone... (say it out loud)

The jokes will practically write themselves.
"I, for one..."

Re:Can't wait until next year... by Laxori666 · 2013-09-10 07:15 · Score: 1

This comment, here - it has gone over my head.
Re:Can't wait until next year... by MachDelta · 2013-09-10 07:42 · Score: 1

Ah crap, I knew this was too phonetic for forum humor. And I hate explaining my own jokes... sucks the life right out of them. But heregoes anyways:
The pun is, if you say "Six See" fast enough, it sort of turns into "Sixy" which sounds a bit like "Sexy" (YMMV based on your accent). So Apple has unintentionally(?) set up the successor to the 5C as an "iPhone Sexy".
In the meantime, I'll show myself out. Tip your waiter and all that.
Re:Can't wait until next year... by fnj · 2013-09-10 08:14 · Score: 1

Some semi literate people confuse the i sound with the e sound in English.
Re:Can't wait until next year... by tippe · 2013-09-10 08:41 · Score: 1

Perhaps if you had pronouced "6C" with an Australian accent, he would have gotten it...
explanation
Re:Can't wait until next year... by mjwx · 2013-09-10 14:33 · Score: 1

Ah crap, I knew this was too phonetic for forum humor. And I hate explaining my own jokes... sucks the life right out of them. But heregoes anyways:
Dont worry about explaining your joke killing the humour, it had none to begin with.

To those of us who speak English, "6C" sounds like Six Cee, which ends up being more like "Sick Sea" when said fast. In English, the "i" vowel sound is more like "ai" or "aye", not "ee". This is why we dont spell sex with an i.

So really, does the Iphone make you sea sick?

--
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Re:Can't wait until next year... by Laxori666 · 2013-09-10 14:38 · Score: 1

Dont worry about explaining your joke killing the humour, it had none to begin with.
Truer words have never been spoken.

I could see calling it the "Sexy 6C". That sort of rolls off the tongue. That's what she said.

Reviving the bit wars? by MarioMax · 2013-09-10 07:11 · Score: 4, Interesting

The one thing that struck me as odd is how much Apple is trumpeting 64-bit.

On a desktop or laptop computer I can see why you would care about 32-bit vs 64-bit; being able to address more than 4 gigs of ram is a huge selling point for 64-bit. But for a smartphone with only 1 gigabyte of ram, why should anyone (outside of developers) even care?

Re:Reviving the bit wars? by Acapulco · 2013-09-10 08:55 · Score: 2

<obligatory>1GB ought to be enough for anybody!</obligatory>
(it's our duty *not* to stop beating the dead horse)

--
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Re:Reviving the bit wars? by Dreadrik · 2013-09-10 09:21 · Score: 5, Informative

The increased address space is not the important part of the ARMv8 64-bit architecture in this case.
Instead it has twice the number of general purpose registers (31) with twice the size (64 bit) than that of the previous ARMv7 architecture. It also has 32 x 128 bit vector registers, which again is doubled. This allows for more data being processed at the same time, and also saves a bit on memory accesses, which are horribly slow. There are also other improvements such as built in AES encrypting and SHA hashing instructions.
Re:Reviving the bit wars? by danbob999 · 2013-09-10 10:23 · Score: 1

except that the RAM in the iPhone is not upgradable.
Re:Reviving the bit wars? by chowdahhead · 2013-09-10 16:13 · Score: 1

We understand this but I don't think Apple's target demographic does (like my Nana, for example). It's a very odd thing for Apple to market. Besides, the current ARMv7 designs are already woefully overpowered for what 99.9% of people use their phones for. ARMv8 cores currently offer no practical or perceivable benefit yet outside of servers--which might be part of the reason no one has really jumped on the Cortex-a57 yet.
Re:Reviving the bit wars? by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:58 · Score: 1

Its possible Apple's looking to hit 4GB of RAM sometime in the near future ... but its still not that big of a deal for performance.
cf. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/hardware/A7-processor-in-iPhone-5S-not-revolutionary-Analyst/articleshow/22470702.cms

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Re:Reviving the bit wars? by renoX · 2013-09-10 22:05 · Score: 1

> Instead it has twice the number of general purpose registers (31) with twice the size (64 bit) than that of the previous ARMv7 architecture.
Increasing the number of register really helped the x86 because it had so few to begin with, for the ARM the effect will be much less important, it'll help mostly floating point processing code.
> and also saves a bit on memory accesses, which are horribly slow.
This depends on what you're doing, going from 32bit to 64bit can also mean that the memory used by your pointers is multiplied by two, reducing the caches efficiency and increasing the number of main memory(slow) accesses..
Re:Reviving the bit wars? by coinreturn · 2013-09-11 02:16 · Score: 1

The one thing that struck me as odd is how much Apple is trumpeting 64-bit.
On a desktop or laptop computer I can see why you would care about 32-bit vs 64-bit; being able to address more than 4 gigs of ram is a huge selling point for 64-bit. But for a smartphone with only 1 gigabyte of ram, why should anyone (outside of developers) even care?
Just like everyone thought 64-bit was worthless on a desktop when Apple brought it there with the G5.
Re:Reviving the bit wars? by puto · 2013-09-11 08:47 · Score: 1

Actually, the Alpha brought it to the desktop.

--
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Re:Reviving the bit wars? by metaforest · 2013-09-11 10:39 · Score: 1

It may be that going to 64 bit will allow them to map the FLASH into the CPU OS address space, rather than having to access it as a block device. I could see that being rather handy. It would save some DRAM usage for file access, especially file reads.
Re:Reviving the bit wars? by coinreturn · 2013-09-11 12:21 · Score: 1

Actually, the Alpha brought it to the desktop.
For RISC, yes. I was referring to CISC, as in mainstream desktops, not specialized workstations.

Re: Stop with the conferences by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 07:15 · Score: 1

most of the tech world disagrees with you.

also, the ipad has never been made of plastic.

Re:Ghey by jellomizer · 2013-09-10 07:15 · Score: 4, Funny

You are using it wrong.

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If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by jellomizer · 2013-09-10 07:17 · Score: 1

The real question is will the fingerprint will be good enough if you are hooked into an Exchange server with complex passwords set. If it works, then I may get one, if not. I will just use my current phone.

--
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.

5C stand for cheap by ZombieBraintrust · 2013-09-10 07:23 · Score: 4, Funny

Does the C stand for cheap?

Re:5C stand for cheap by rsborg · 2013-09-10 11:46 · Score: 1

Does the C stand for cheap?
No. C = China. This will be the first launch that focuses on China, and they could possibly sell a TD-LTE version of the 5C (not so useful elswhere) that could be significantly discounted appropriately for the region.

--
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Re:5C stand for cheap by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-09-10 12:39 · Score: 1

It's $550, so probably not.
The going theory that I like most is that it stands for "copy" (of Lumia, of all things).
Re:5C stand for cheap by AtomicSymphonic · 2013-09-10 17:09 · Score: 1

I thought it stood for "China"... Originally, I thought the 5C would be sold initially in China, but I guess not. So, "Cheap" it is!
Re:5C stand for cheap by Begemot · 2013-09-10 19:49 · Score: 1

Does the C stand for cheap?
Colorful China Crap
Re:5C stand for cheap by slash.jit · 2013-09-11 02:38 · Score: 1

NO. It stands for Cartoonish.

Re:Lack of sensor demo... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 07:25 · Score: 1

Have non-authorized user press it and not unlock it.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-09-10 07:25 · Score: 2

"I bet nowadays kids get expelled for that, at a minimum." God help you if the school is using some 'cloud' or hosted service to manage their email or whatnot. Obtaining a teacher's credentials would probably be about a zillion CFAA violations and an interstate matter... At least if it's all onsite, their legal options are more limited.

Re:iPod Touches? by Dins · 2013-09-10 07:25 · Score: 1

If they are going to update the iPod Touches, the announcment usually happens a few weeks later. Like UnknowingFool said, though, I'm not sure an update is warranted this time. They're probably trying to steer people to the 5C.

Security people will actually use by tgibbs · 2013-09-10 07:26 · Score: 2

So in an occasional rare situation, you have to enter the unlock code. Still a lot more convenient than having to enter the code every time. I don't use an unlock code because it's too much of a pain, but I'll use this.

Re:Security people will actually use by tgibbs · 2013-09-11 08:03 · Score: 1

You miss the point. This is not for people who are "security conscious." No matter how reliable and secure the fingerprint sensor turns out to be, it is axiomatic that adding a second way of unlocking your phone in addition to the PIN cannot possibly make it more secure than PIN alone. And who is going to trust the fingerprint method without a PIN?
This is for the people who currently aren't using a PIN at all, because it's too inconvenient.

Ugly by Tough+Love · 2013-09-10 07:27 · Score: 1

Am I right?

--
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Re:Seriously? That's it? by ad454 · 2013-09-10 07:29 · Score: 1

I can't agree more. I find Jailboken iOS much more capable that Android, and was really hoping for an Apple phablet.

Yes, I understand that phablets are not for everyone, but they fit nicely in my purses and I typically spent much more time running apps than talking, on my smart phone, so the larger size is better for me.

In any case, today's announcement from Apple is so disappointing, that I am now planning to ditch the iPhone and get a Samsung Note3 as my next phone, which has larger size, 1080p display, NFC, and pen when detailed input is needed.

It is a shame that Apple is no longer willing to meet the needs of a long time loyal customer like myself. Besides, I consider the fingerprint reader to be a big negative, and do not want share it with the NSA.

I am also seriously considering the Surface Pro 2 as my next ultrabook, since Apple refuses to make a MacBook Air with retina and touch+pen inputs. (I do a lot of CAD work.)

Re:Seriously? That's it? by alen · 2013-09-10 07:31 · Score: 1

after watching the galaxy gear launch, i asked myself WTF is the point of a watch?
$299 for a smaller screen to do the same thing you do now and still need a phone. WTF is the point of a 5" screen if you're going to keep it in your bag to use the tiny watch all the time?

the Nike stuff on the 5S looked a lot more useful than the galaxy gear

Re:Samsung Group by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-10 07:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

Did apple find someone else to supply their parts?

Re:So long, Apple by balbus000 · 2013-09-10 07:31 · Score: 1

Yeah, I think this needs to be emphasized. The 5c is only $100 less than the 5s; I wouldn't call it cheap. The 5c is still more than twice the cost of a Nexus 4 ($549 vs $249).

It's not enough by Itsallmyfault · 2013-09-10 07:31 · Score: 2

Once again, nothing in these new iPhones to make me want to upgrade my iPhone 4. Apple realizes it too, hence the Apple apps giveaway. I'm even closer now to ditching the 4 in favor of anything made by Samsung.

Hmmmm by Ronin+Developer · 2013-09-10 07:31 · Score: 1, Insightful

Do we really expect to read pro-iPhone comments on a site pretty much dedicated to anything non-Apple? Yeah...that's what I thought....Unbiased news...just like FOX (or, CNN).

What is the point of 64 bit? by phantomfive · 2013-09-10 07:32 · Score: 1

The thing I've been trying to understand, what is the point of going to 64-bit on the processor? Surely they aren't going to have more than 4Gig of RAM on the phone already?

--
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."

Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by csumpi · 2013-09-10 07:47 · Score: 2

64 > 32.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by tgibbs · 2013-09-10 07:48 · Score: 1

A 64 bit processor processes information in larger "chunks," which speeds things up. So this is probably a big part of the rather dramatic claimed increase in speed.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by jo_ham · 2013-09-10 09:13 · Score: 2

Sounds like this is round one in the future direction of iOS for Apple.
Right now it doesn't matter for the 5S in terms of being able to address large amounts of RAM, but the switch to the new 64 bit architecture did bring in more registers (x2) and some other tweaks that will help performance.
This is likely a heads up for developers that other iOS devices with larger amounts of RAM and a more real use for 64 bit may be coming (say, bigger iPads etc), or that they're thinking about adding a 64 bit A7 chip to the Macbook Pro (alongside the x86 - I don't think for a minute they'll be dropping intel CPUs on the desktop soon) to allow for 'low power on the move for more battery life' options or something.
No idea, but you can be sure they've got some sort of a plan for it, otherwise why make a big deal of it at this point? This release event was as much about letting developers know what they have to work with and what to expect as it was about user features - they covered fluffy stuff about as much as they did spec stuff. They just gave out information to different demographics at the same event, and let the various media people sort out what to report on.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by sl149q · 2013-09-10 09:17 · Score: 1

Do more in less time which means that you spend more time asleep which conserves battery.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by Tough+Love · 2013-09-10 09:44 · Score: 1

Draws more power, usually. Interesting to see how that plays out.

--
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by danbob999 · 2013-09-10 10:02 · Score: 1

A 64 bit processor do not magically processes information in larger chunks. You need to actually use 64 bit data for it to be usefull. Every time you use an integer smaller than 2^32 (4 billion something), you do not benefit from 64 bit.
I can't think of a single application in the App Store which will benefit from 64 bit.
The "dramatic" speed increase come from a better architecture, more registers, and probably a higher clock speed. A 2x increase is not uncommon from one generation of phone to another. Especially since the iPhone 5 CPU lagged behind the competition. It only means the CPU speed will now be on par with the Nexus 4.
Androids have more cores. Razors have more blades. Apple needed more bits only for marketing.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by phantomfive · 2013-09-10 13:16 · Score: 1

Yeah, RAM seems to be about the only thing I can think. I can't find anyone who seems to know how much RAM is in the new iPhone, though.

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"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by DigiShaman · 2013-09-10 17:05 · Score: 1

My thoughts exactly. Adding 64bit now is just laying the foundation and framework for future integration and cross compatibility between iOS and OSX. Eventually, both platforms will be merged and thus the apps will be portable between the platforms. For now, I wouldn't expect to see much 64bit support right from the start, but rather a massive accelerated uptick once the iPhone 6 is released.

--
Life is not for the lazy.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by tgibbs · 2013-09-10 17:48 · Score: 1

It's pretty unlikely that Apple would go to the expense of transitioning to a 64 bit architecture unless it gave them a meaningful performance benefit. Smartphones have relatively small RAM, yet they are expected to respond to user commands nearly instantaneously. It is clear that iOS devices are constantly moving data around to economize on memory space. And moving data around certainly benefits from wider registers.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by danbob999 · 2013-09-11 00:27 · Score: 1

It's pretty unlikely that Apple would go to the expense of transitioning to a 64 bit architecture unless it gave them a meaningful performance benefit.
You underestimate the power of the marketing department. They needed to be first at something.
They know their CPU isn't the fastest out there so at least they can say they have the only 64 bit mobile CPU.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by coinreturn · 2013-09-11 02:18 · Score: 1

The thing I've been trying to understand, what is the point of going to 64-bit on the processor? Surely they aren't going to have more than 4Gig of RAM on the phone already?
Memory bandwidth.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by tgibbs · 2013-09-11 02:30 · Score: 1

With Apple's buying power, they could have any cpu they wanted. If they've chosen this one, it's because they think it has distinct performance advantages for the way their products are used. If anything, Apple has avoided playing the features game, sticking with a dual-core architecture rather than the sexy-sounding quad core. And the general experience of Apple devices is that they are very snappy.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by danbob999 · 2013-09-11 10:56 · Score: 1

With Apple's buying power, they could have any cpu they wanted. If they've chosen this one, it's because they think it will bring them more money
I fixed that for you.

If anything, Apple has avoided playing the features game, sticking with a dual-core architecture rather than the sexy-sounding quad core.
64 bit is even less useful than quad core on a phone with 1-2GB RAM.
It's all about marketing. That's why Apple released a phone with a "quad core" GPU (whatever this means), to confuse people right after Android quad core CPU phones were out. Before that, nobody ever marketed the number of "cores" in a GPU. Just like nobody ever marketed pixel density on a phone before the iPhone 4. Android phones all had higher pixel density than iPhones before the release of the iPhone 4. They also took the crown back right after with the release of 1280x720 phones. Apple also stopped announcing RAM in their phones since they ship with half of what the competition have.
Apple pushes marketing a lot. They brag about their firsts, whether they mater or not is something else. Not that their products are bad, but you seem to trust them a little too much.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by tgibbs · 2013-09-11 17:47 · Score: 1

Yes, we all know that Apple, like other for-profit companies, is in business to make money. Different companies have different strategies to do that. Apple clearly believes that making premium-quality products will bring them more money. So far, it's been working.
If you've never heard anybody touting the number of cores in their GPU, you haven't been paying attention to marketing of graphics cards. Because graphics calculations are highly parallelizable, and because the parallelizing can be handled by the OS, without requiring extra effort from app developers, GPU performance particularly benefits from a multi-core architecture.
Apple's phones have always exhibited performance that is competitive or better at the time of introduction, and the user experience is always very snappy, with lag nearly absent. Historically, Apple's reports of speed increase over previous generations have proved pretty accurate when people got around to benchmarking them, so it is likely that will prove true once again. A doubling of speed is a quite respectable performance increase over a year. So maybe Apple was not mistaken in thinking that the 64 bit architecture offers real advantages given the design of their phones and iOS. But it required substantial extra investment on Apple's part, because Apple's developer package had to be revised to create 64 bit apps, so that app developers would be able rapidly update their apps to take advantage of the new architecture. If Apple just wanted bragging rights, more processor cores would have been much cheaper.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by danbob999 · 2013-09-12 00:45 · Score: 1

If you've never heard anybody touting the number of cores in their GPU, you haven't been paying attention to marketing of graphics cards. Because graphics calculations are highly parallelizable, and because the parallelizing can be handled by the OS, without requiring extra effort from app developers, GPU performance particularly benefits from a multi-core architecture.
Nobody did market "cores", as in a small number of parts of a GPU.
GPU makers marketed shaders pipelines, which is completely different. Recent GPUs have over 2000 shaders pipelines able to work in parallel. They don't call their 2000 shaders model "quad core" and their 1000 shaders "dual core", because it wouldn't mean anything.
Apple clearly tried to confuse people when they first talked about their quad core GPU.

Historically, Apple's reports of speed increase over previous generations have proved pretty accurate when people got around to benchmarking them, so it is likely that will prove true once again. A doubling of speed is a quite respectable performance increase over a year. So maybe Apple was not mistaken in thinking that the 64 bit architecture offers real advantages given the design of their phones and iOS.
What about a fallacy. Just because they doubled the performance doesn't mean that it's because of 64 bit. It's more likely a better architecture and increased clock speed.

If Apple just wanted bragging rights, more processor cores would have been much cheaper.
No because they would have needed something like 6 cores to be able to say that they are "first". And 6 cores would have been expensive.
Quad core would mean that they finally copied the competition.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by tgibbs · 2013-09-12 02:39 · Score: 1

Nobody did market "cores", as in a small number of parts of a GPU.
Here's one example
Here's another.
Here's another
Sure seem to be a lot of nobody's around.

What about a fallacy. Just because they doubled the performance doesn't mean that it's because of 64 bit. It's more likely a better architecture and increased clock speed.
It's more likely the whole combination of features. Apple has gotten very good at optimizing performance for mobile devices by cleverly matching the capabilities of their chips to their software. I doubt if going to 64 bit is solely responsible for the increased performance, but I also doubt if it's irrelevant. A doubling of effective performance is a big change for going from one generation to the next of a chip. Apple certainly didn't double clock speed--that would be too expensive in terms of battery usage.
I think that the notion that 64-bit offers little per formance improvement aside from a larger address space comes from people who are more familiar with PCs, which have loads of RAM to play with. But RAM is power-hungry, so cell phones are RAM-constrained. As a result, cell phones are constantly shuffling data back and forth between RAM and Flash memory, and it needs to do this very fast, because users are impatient with lag in a mobile device. And moving data is one place where wider registers yields a big benefit.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by danbob999 · 2013-09-12 07:10 · Score: 1

Nobody did market "cores", as in a small number of parts of a GPU.
Here's one example
Here's another.
Here's another
None of these were before Apple started marketing cores and refer to the same type of "core" that Apple invented.
Anyway, I was talking about phones and tablets. Apple is the first one use use the word "core" while describing its phone GPU when announcing a new phone.
Apple could easily double their CPU performance because they were already 50% slower than the competition.
64 bit is also more power hungry than 32 bit. A 64 bit register uses twice as much power as a 32 bit register. If you use it to make computation on small integers (which is what 99% of applications in the app store do), you use twice the power for no benefit.
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by tgibbs · 2013-09-12 08:19 · Score: 1

Samsung is also moving to 64 bit on their phones.
So do you really believe that both companies are going to all of this effort and expense is just for the sake of marketing hype, or is it just possible that the two companies with the most experience with smartphone development know more than you do about the advantages of 64 bit architecture for this type of device?
Re:What is the point of 64 bit? by danbob999 · 2013-09-12 09:31 · Score: 1

Samsung is already at 3GB RAM with their Note 3. They maxed out the 32 bit potential. They need 64 bit next year to go forward. Nobody denied that we need to move to 64 bit at some point. But with less RAM, Apple would have been good with 32 bits for 1 more year than Samsung. However they wouldn't have been first to 64 bit. Just like Nintendo wanted to be first to 64 bit with their gaming console.

Re:iPod Touches? by UnknowingFool · 2013-09-10 07:33 · Score: 1

Reading on the A7 and M7 chips, it would quite an upgrade to the gaming capabilities of the iPod Touch.

--
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Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by Cinder6 · 2013-09-10 07:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

You're silly if you think the government doesn't already have your fingerprint. Apple says that the fingerprint data is encrypted and never leaves the phone, as well, so objections about Facebook and other third-parties having the data also seem to be out.

Personally, it's a feature I've been wanting for a long time.

--
If you can't convince them, convict them.

The beginning of the end... by MaWeiTao · 2013-09-10 07:47 · Score: 4, Funny

So the iPhone 5S is the incremental upgrade any objective observer would have predicted. The problem is that too many in the press kept trumpeting it like it would be some kind of revolution, and the ignorant masses, led by Apple fanatics, bought into the hype.

The mistake people have been making for well over a decade is to brand Apple as an innovator. They're not, far from it, in fact. What they are is amazing integrators, who are able to produce a great product because they're involved in every step of the process. They're also skilled at exploiting a technology when it's reached maturity. But other companies are the true innovators. They're the ones who've taken the risk on a technology in it's infancy and suffer the knocks that inevitably come. Unfortunately, they're rarely the ones who profit from those efforts and they certainly don't get the recognition from consumers.

The challenge for Apple is to remain relevant. The mobile market has matured with competitors catching up and even surpassing the iPhone in a variety of ways. The problem is that it seems Apple is afraid to tamper with their formula and so is playing it far too safe. This is the inevitably consequence of being at the top for too long. Fortunately for them, they've been able to retain their position as the prestige brand. This is partially due to the fact that the entire industry, all the way down to the retail level, keeps reinforcing that belief. Sticking to aluminum certainly helps maintain that perception amongst ignorant consumers.

I'd say Apple's days are numbered, although they're going to remain a dominant presence in the market for a very long time. I don't really see what they could do to reverse the slide. I'm not seeing anything of significance from Apple; nothing like the compelling experiments Google or Microsoft keep putting forward. They're mired in the success of the iPad and iPhone. They struck at the right time with great products but they don't have much of substance to fall back on.

By contrast, Microsoft just needs some proper management to shift things a bit so that they can get on track. They've still got a viable core of potential. From what I've seen Apple, on the other hand, has deeper problems. Maybe they'll prove me wrong in the next couple of years, but so far I'm not seeing it.

Re:The beginning of the end... by the+computer+guy+nex · 2013-09-10 08:37 · Score: 1

So the iPhone 5S is the incremental upgrade any objective observer would have predicted.
Actually if the A6->A7 jump is anywhere near what they put in their graphs, it is much more than I predicted. The A6 is still #1 in terms of graphics performance and web browsing (glbenchmark and sunspider scores).
Re:The beginning of the end... by mybecq · 2013-09-10 09:41 · Score: 1

I'd say Apple's days are numbered, although they're going to remain a dominant presence in the market for a very long time.
So, you're going to give them a really large number then?

I'm not seeing anything of significance from Apple; nothing like the compelling experiments Google or Microsoft keep putting forward.
Just because they don't sell their R&D experiments to developers doesn't mean they don't have any.

but so far I'm not seeing it.
Because you don't work in Apple's R&D perhaps?

Re:Stop with the conferences by Score+Whore · 2013-09-10 07:50 · Score: 1

or it uses iOS, then it's not bleeding edge.

Well as long as you have a reasonable and objective definition of bleeding edge...

Re:EASY by Guy+Harris · 2013-09-10 07:54 · Score: 1

ask yourself what it takes to make plastic:

BIG OIL

Making more sense now?

No.

However, some of the other replies, saying "it's cheaper and easier to form plastic shells than to make metal shells", do make it make more sense.

Fingerprints are not passwords! by tokiko · 2013-09-10 07:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

Fingerprints are not a valid replacement for passwords. They are not private. You leave them everywhere. Anything you touch can potentially be used against you.

It's only a matter of time until we see YouTube videos of people lifting a thumbprint off a soda can with Scotch tape and pressing it up to an iPhone to unlock it.

Re:Fingerprints are not passwords! by sinij · 2013-09-10 08:05 · Score: 1

Most FP sensors in use since 90s can detect if it is actual finger that is pressed against the sensor. Cutting off fingers still work, but anything else, including burning off fingertips does not.

At the same time you are correct, fingerprints are not passwords - it is something you have, not something you know. Additional consideration is that unless secure channel is established between the sensor and processing hardware, it is trivially easy to 'skim' this data and forever compromise any non-secure channel implementation of FP.
Re:Fingerprints are not passwords! by Karth · 2013-09-10 08:10 · Score: 3, Informative

Mythbusters proved that this is completely incorrect. Scotch tape with your thumb behind it is enough to fake out many modern systems, since it detects the body heat. You have to breath on the tape for moisture, but that's about it.
Re:Fingerprints are not passwords! by WarJolt · 2013-09-10 08:20 · Score: 1

Just watch some reruns of the myth busters.it's practically a how-to guide.
Someone can probably make money on selling a kit though.
Re:Fingerprints are not passwords! by sinij · 2013-09-10 08:28 · Score: 2

There are different sensor technologies, only obsolete optical sensors are vulnerable to this attack. Modern sensors are subdermal, that is it doesn't matter what is on surface of your skin, it is internal ridge structure that gets scanned. Obviously, you are welcome to trust mythbusters to provide comprehensive technology overview.

Dead finger is harder to detect - capillary pulse detection can be faked, but it is hard.
Re:Fingerprints are not passwords! by suutar · 2013-09-10 09:22 · Score: 1

This. Fingerprints (and retina prints and insert-biometric-of-choice) have a place in the login sequence: replacing username. But most phones assume only one user...
Re:Fingerprints are not passwords! by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:17 · Score: 1

Worth quoting: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/09/fingerprint-loc.html

--
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by interkin3tic · 2013-09-10 07:57 · Score: 2

While I'm concerned about privacy, there are tradeoffs as with any technology. Facebook, obviously, the transaction of your data for social networking is worth it to many people.

The fingerprinting thing too, may be worth it. Muggers target apple device users. Making sure they can't sell stolen phones isn't without benefit to the user. I think it's a lot more likely that some meth head would stab me for my phone than the government trying to do something similar. Fingerprinting could make the first less likely, and that might make it worth it even if it makes the second slightly more likely. At the very least, I'd like the meth head to not get anything, while the government likely already has my fingerprints, and doesn't really need them anyway to ruin my life.

Not that I'm going to get an iPhone ever again. I'd almost rather be stabbed by a meth head than have to use itunes again.

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by rea1l1 · 2013-09-10 07:58 · Score: 1

Isnt that the point? That if the government is searching you and decides to copy your phone they already have your fingerprint password?

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by xaxa · 2013-09-10 08:00 · Score: 2

I bet nowadays kids get expelled for that, at a minimum.

After the teacher found out, I got banned from using the school computers for the "rest of the year", which was about five days. I think the fresh air and sunshine probably did me some good. That was 1997.

(I didn't access any teacher's account or files. It was Windows 3.1, the "hack" was making a macro in word to open File Manager, then opening "progmana.exe", which was a copy/configuration(?) of Program Manager with the administration programs. I was 10, all I wanted to do was change the colours and the wallpaper.)

Re:So long, Apple by Jason+Levine · 2013-09-10 08:01 · Score: 1

The graphs looked nice but didn't have any labels to tell exactly what was being tracked using what metrics and displayed in what manner. It's easy to make a graph showing what looks like a huge increase when it is really a moderate or even small increase. The real test will be when the benchmarks come out and people make graphs that are actually labeled.

--
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Re:Stock price drop in 3, 2, 1... by timeOday · 2013-09-10 08:02 · Score: 1

Samsung has a smoother path to the commoditization of the mobile market, because they are already span the entire market.

I have bought 4 of the Samsung S390G for my kids because, at $20 with no contract, they are a great value. Sorry if that sounds like an ad, but at that price, and with a MicroSD slot, it was the obvious choice for my kids' next music/video player, even if they never even activated the phone.

while attempting to change password... by globaljustin · 2013-09-10 08:03 · Score: 2

>error: that fingerprint has been used for this account before, please use a fingerprint that is different from the last 3 fingerprints used for this account

--
Thank you Dave Raggett

Re:Android user, was going to switch by Tough+Love · 2013-09-10 08:03 · Score: 1

That two year release cycle looks like a growing liability to Apple in the face of much faster moving competitors.

--
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Re:Stop with the conferences by Albanach · 2013-09-10 08:04 · Score: 1

I agree the Nexus 4 is a nice phone at a great price, but it isn't "high end" either. There are other similar priced smart phones with similar features.

I wasn't aware of that. Can you name a few similarly priced phones with 4.7" screens or larger at over 300ppi. Gorilla Glass. 8 megapixel camera. 2GB RAM, quad core 1.5Ghz processor and NFC?

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by HuguesT · 2013-09-10 08:10 · Score: 1

Well, you do have (usually) 10 fingers, and all fingerprints are different. If more are needed, use toes.

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by EGSonikku · 2013-09-10 08:13 · Score: 2

If you're worried about that just use the old password system? The fingerprint thing isn't a requirement...

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- "Scientia non habet inimicum nisp ignorantem"

The hell, Apple? by ArcadeMan · 2013-09-10 08:16 · Score: 2

No update to the iPod shuffle?

I'm kidding, of course. The current model is perfect, don't mess with it. We don't need another Third-Generation disaster.

--
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins

share via brain wave... by globaljustin · 2013-09-10 08:17 · Score: 1

re: Google Glass Facebook integration

they want it...that's where they want to take it...

Google Glass is here. Brain wave sensors are still barbaric but getting cheaper every day. I think they can have about 8 different inputs via 'thought'

There is absolutely no reason Google Glass won't be able to do operations like 'take photo'->'share photo via facebook' through thought interface...like...today...someone may even have done it already in a lab

Then, they can just capture your **brain waves** as metadata along with your photo.

user brain wave mapping is a legitimate 'social media' application *right now*...

it's cool! but we just have to hold tight to our rights!

--
Thank you Dave Raggett

Re:So long, Apple by ArcadeMan · 2013-09-10 08:18 · Score: 1

Yeah, 3GS!

--
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins

Re:So long, Apple by ArcadeMan · 2013-09-10 08:19 · Score: 1

If anything, it just shows that the 5C should be more than $100 cheaper.

--
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by mrchaotica · 2013-09-10 08:20 · Score: 1

I was 10, all I wanted to do was change the colours and the wallpaper.)

Bah, any respectable 10-year-old hacker would have at least also wanted to play Solitaire or something!

--

"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by MrDoh! · 2013-09-10 08:22 · Score: 2

I found it interesting they said the 'IMAGE' of the fingerprint doesn't leave the phone. Which of course it doesn't need to, just the data points of the fingerprint.

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Waiting for an amusing sig.

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by RenderSeven · 2013-09-10 08:24 · Score: 1

I think the point of the Onion joke was that people scream about the government getting their hands on personal data when they gladly hand it over to Facebook. Same thing for fingerprints and Apple. Not making a value judgement for or against, just noting the irony and hypocrisy.

The "rather be stabbed by a meth head than have to use itunes again" is some funny stuff though!

Re:So long, Apple by knarf · 2013-09-10 08:32 · Score: 1

Once is enough, there is no need to repeat your comments in the same thread. If you thought you'd be more convincing that way you're wrong as the opposite is true.

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--frank[at]unternet.org

Re:Stock price drop in 3, 2, 1... by the+computer+guy+nex · 2013-09-10 08:33 · Score: 1

Samsung has a smoother path to the commoditization of the mobile market, because they are already span the entire market.

I have bought 4 of the Samsung S390G for my kids because, at $20 with no contract, they are a great value. Sorry if that sounds like an ad, but at that price, and with a MicroSD slot, it was the obvious choice for my kids' next music/video player, even if they never even activated the phone.

There is no money to be made in $20 no-contract devices. Apple has more profit from smartphones than every other manufacturer (including Samsung) on earth combined. They don't need to race to the bottom.

The smartphone use case is played out by the+computer+guy+nex · 2013-09-10 08:38 · Score: 1

I was told today that nothing someone saw "wowed" them. I asked what has "wowed" them since 2007 when the first iPhone was announced. No reply.

Smartphones will continue to get faster, better battery life, and more usability features (Touch ID). This isn't a bad thing, just the reality of a use case that has been played out.

Re:The smartphone use case is played out by biodata · 2013-09-11 00:42 · Score: 1

I saw an HTC one the other day, and I thought, wow, Linux has finally arrived in shiny boxes after being predicted for so long. I might go wow next time a company is brave enough to market a smartphone secure from eavesdropping.

--
Korma: Good

Re:So long, Apple by AmiMoJo · 2013-09-10 08:42 · Score: 1

Thing is, most people don't really care about a "better processor", "motion co-processor" or "better camera". All those things are adequate on their current phones. In the past Apple has recognized this and always gone for features that people can easily understand and see the utility of, but apart from the fingerprint sensor this time they have nothing.

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Re:Stock price drop in 3, 2, 1... by Bill_the_Engineer · 2013-09-10 08:52 · Score: 1

And yet they sale quite a few $600+ Samsung G4 phones.

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These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...

Meh by WillAffleckUW · 2013-09-10 08:58 · Score: 1

Sorry, I'll stick with my iPhone 5.

Wake me when iPhone 6 rolls out.

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-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --

Re:There's already a line at AAPL for the new iPho by Tough+Love · 2013-09-10 09:03 · Score: 2

True. AAPL down 2.5% on this product announcement. The screen is a big disappointment.

--
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Re:Stop with the conferences by Bill_the_Engineer · 2013-09-10 09:03 · Score: 1

Samsung Galaxy S II

It has everything that the Nexus 4 has except no NFC. There are others out there. The Nexus 4 is an old phone after all.

--
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...

Apple loves to be "first" by Sycraft-fu · 2013-09-10 09:19 · Score: 1

If they have something that nobody else does, or at least that they can say nobody else does, they love to push it as the best thing EVAR. They want to convince people that the Apple product is better, faster, more capable, etc, etc.

So, since they have one of the first, if not the first, phone with a 64-bit ARM CPU (since near as I know 64-bit ARM is a very new thing) they are going to advertise and push it. They will get their zealots all in a lather as to how much better that is, without any real understanding as to what it actually means, they'll just know it is something their product has that those nasty other products don't and thus it is better.

Re:Stop with the conferences by MrHanky · 2013-09-10 09:20 · Score: 1

The original iPhone was pretty groundbreaking for what it was (usable touchscreen input), and the iPhone 4 introduced really nice screens, probably the main reason why resolution has been pushed by all other manufacturers since then. Both technologies were available to other manufacturers, but they all followed Apple's lead. Same with tablets, although I think no one in their right mind would get it blown away by the iPad (or any other tablet since then).

The original MacBook Air probably started the whole race to thinness, too. Even though they're no great innovators, Apple certainly have been leading the industry the last ten years. It's a bit funny that it probably started with the iPod, which Apple delivered late to a market in which everyone else insisted on producing utter crap.

Only $900, eh? by msobkow · 2013-09-10 09:35 · Score: 1

I'm sorry. $900 for a phone? With only 64GB of storage?

You Apple fanbois are insane!

--
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.

Re:Only $900, eh? by Ardipithecus · 2013-09-10 11:15 · Score: 1

iNsane

Re:Stop with the conferences by Daetrin · 2013-09-10 09:38 · Score: 1

Samsung Galaxy S II

It has everything that the Nexus 4 has except no NFC. There are others out there. The Nexus 4 is an old phone after all.

Uh, according to the specs on wikipedia, the Galaxy S2 has a dual core CPU, not quad core, only one of the two versions hits 1.5 GHz, neither of the two versions is 4.7" (not that being smaller is a bad thing in my book, but the GP did specify size,) it's only got 218 ppi at best, and all versions only have 1 GHz of RAM. The only areas specified where it _does_ match the Nexus 4 is the 8mp camera, NFC and Gorilla Glass. So you've failed to meet four or five of the eight specified points, and generally it's the rather more important points you've failed on.

And i'd definitely be interested in hearing some alternatives that match most of the Nexus 4 specs as well. If the Nexus 4 had a slightly smaller screen and 32 GB of storage or a microSD card slot i'd pick one up in an instant.

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This Space Intentionally Left Blank

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by Quirkz · 2013-09-10 10:19 · Score: 1

I'll see your anecdote and raise you one. A university dean I used to do tech support for had his password stickied to his monitor. It was his initials and the year of his birth.

--
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay

John Dvorack, is that you? by Uberbah · 2013-09-10 10:31 · Score: 1

The problem is that too many in the press kept trumpeting it like it would be some kind of revolution, and the ignorant masses, led by Apple fanatics, bought into the hype.

Tautologies are boring.

The mistake people have been making for well over a decade is to brand Apple as an innovator. They're not, far from it, in fact. What they are is amazing integrators

You could say the same thing about any company that has ever existed, if you applied this standard you're holding Apple to against the rest of the industry.

The mobile market has matured with competitors catching up and even surpassing the iPhone in a variety of ways

You mean competition is good for developing products for consumers? I'm sure your Nobel Prize in Economics is in the mail for that observation.

The problem is that it seems Apple is afraid to tamper with their formula and so is playing it far too safe.

They're making more money than anyone else, and the only one of their competitors making real money is Samsung. Poor beleaguered Apple.

Fortunately for them, they've been able to retain their position as the prestige brand. This is partially due to the fact that the entire industry, all the way down to the retail level, keeps reinforcing that belief.

Because no other company could possibly position themselves as a premium brand/invest in marketing/bring repeat customers.

nothing like the compelling experiments Google or Microsoft keep putting forward

I notice you didn't say "product". Because Glass has sold a few hundred million units and made a few hundred billion dollars for Google.

5C less likely to cannibalize sales than the 5 ... by perpenso · 2013-09-10 10:36 · Score: 1

First, Apple releases a tiny 7" tablet, against Jobs recommendation when he was alive.

My understanding is that Jobs was against a 7" tablet when they could *not* match the 1024x768 resolution of the full sized non-retina iPad. Over time pixels per inch improved and this technical objection no longer applied. The 7" iPad mini introduced no display fragmentation, a pixel per pixel match for the existing non-retina full sized iPad.

Now they come up with a cheap iPhone, further eroding Aple's premium image.

The "C" in iPhone 5C is for "color" not "cheap". "Cheap" was Wall Street speculation regarding a hypothetical developing world focused phone. Wall Street did not expect the current iPhone 5 to be discontinued, they expected the 5 to move into the midrange iPhone slot. Apple did something different, they discontinued the 5 and introduced the 5C as the phone for that midrange price slot. IMHO that was a smart move. The 5C is less likely to cannibalize 5S sales than the 5.

I guess it works with a purse ... by perpenso · 2013-09-10 10:50 · Score: 1

I do not expect I will be buying another iPhone ever again. The device is far too tiny... My wife's Galaxy Note phone is awesome... reasonable screen size, and even comes with a stylus.

I guess if you are carrying around a purse then the larger phones are not really an issue.

Personally I miss smaller phones, in particular my Moto Razor flip phone where I didn't have to worry about putting things in the same pocket as the phone. That said, the increased functionality of a smartphone does seem worth having to put coins and other screen scratchers in a different pocket.

Permanently unsafe by VernorVinge · 2013-09-10 11:19 · Score: 2

I can live with the knowledge that my passwords are inherently unsafe. They can be changed as needed. If a hacker gets access to my full finger print scan, then its game over, permanently. We do not have the ability to reset fingerprints without radical surgery. I for one will never use my fingerprints for e-commerce.

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Stay skeptical, my friends.

Re:Stock price drop in 3, 2, 1... by timeOday · 2013-09-10 11:25 · Score: 1

What are you talking about?

Apple has fallen off the profit throne. Last quarter, Samsung Electronics made more money selling handsets than Apple for the first time, according to a report by Strategy Analytics.
Samsung's operating profit for handsets was an estimated $5.2 billion in the second quarter of 2013, according to the report. Apple, meanwhile, had an estimated operating profit of $4.6 billion.

cite

How much of that could possibly be from $20 no-contract phones I won't guess, but the point is they cover the extremes and everything in between and are already very profitable at it.

And all the iWork and iLife Apps by Kyusaku+Natsume · 2013-09-10 12:02 · Score: 1

This is something that everyone is missing. They are adding value not on the hardware and OS side, they are adding value in the apps included in the iPhone and trying to make a compelling case to use iCloud services.

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Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!

Mutually exclusive by tepples · 2013-09-10 12:20 · Score: 1

MP3, H.264 video[...] yes, these proprietary, locked down formats MUST GO!

Those formats are subject to royalty-bearing patents, and the multimedia playing component of iOS makes no provision for similarly capable royalty-free formats.

I can decide quite easily what to install on my device: if I want to install stuff from the Google store, I buy an Android device. If I want to install stuff from the Apple store, I buy an Apple device.

So what do you buy if you want to install something exclusive to the Google store and something exclusive to the Apple store?

Re:Hmmmm by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-09-10 12:41 · Score: 1

Are you saying that any positive feedback cannot be expected on websites which aren't Apple-exclusive fanboy clubs?

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by gr8_phk · 2013-09-10 12:46 · Score: 1

You're silly if you think the government doesn't already have your fingerprint.

How so? I know there have been efforts to fingerprint children with some lame claims about being useful to "save the children" but it's not mandatory. Or do they print them at birth these days?

Re:Samsung Group by Bing+Tsher+E · 2013-09-10 14:16 · Score: 2

Apple actively needs a 'boogeyman' competitor. Preferably one with a larger market share, and a product line that includes lower-end products (but said competitor can and usually does have at least some offerings that are superior to Apple's.) They're a boutique vendor and Apple customers will always need there to be somebody to feel superior to. And Apple needs a customer base willing to pay a premium for their devices.

That's been Apples market approach for decades, and it's not showing any sign of changing.

Re:Stop with the conferences by mjwx · 2013-09-10 14:22 · Score: 1

"See Apple, the thing is, these big media events used to be about introducing jaw-dropping, mind blowing new technology."

Has Apple ever been about 'mind blowing new technology'? As long as I can remember, they've been about well polished, high-production-value implementations of technology that already existed.

Nope, they're all about marketing which is why people are arguing about whether they're about "mind blowing" or "well polished" technology.

In reality they have never been mind blowing or well polished, just very, very slick salesmen.

--
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by Macgrrl · 2013-09-10 14:46 · Score: 1

IIRC footprints are taken at birth.

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Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World

Re:Is Apple now taking design cues from Microsoft? by Swampash · 2013-09-10 16:15 · Score: 1

Flat icons? Have you even seen iOS7? It's so goddamn unflat I'm amazed it doesn't come bundled with 3D glasses.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:19 · Score: 1

I showed my teacher how to get into the school-wide course software in grade 9 and that I could change any grade I wanted just by mapping the proper drive on the Novell server. She was not impressed ... but they did ask me to fix it.

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:21 · Score: 1

My daughter (who is 11) just derived this week that the wifi passwords for the schools in our area are all derived from their location names ... now she probably has free WiFi near any school in the region.

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)

Re:So long, Apple by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-10 16:33 · Score: 1

People care, they just don't want to know the underlying details. People care if their car goes smoothly, but they don't want to know how the transmission is tuned.

(Yes, most of them don't ... geeks excluded).

Reminds me of Sony bragging about the PS2 emotion engine and so on, trying to impress people with raw hardware details that aren't comparable to anything else.

That is to say in this case, how does the A7 perform in reality, running normal apps vs. the latest HTC or Motorola or Sony devices running Android?

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)

Re:Lack of sensor demo... by AtomicSymphonic · 2013-09-10 17:27 · Score: 1

That would be totally awesome if we could see that each time we did that... And had the ability to turn off the telemetry readings if we get annoyed by it each time...

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by root_42 · 2013-09-10 19:42 · Score: 1

Look at it from the NSA/FBI's point of view: they already have backdoor access to your phone's data, so the fingerprint scanner isn't about keeping Them out, but about securing biometric data from users voluntarily. If They tried to fingerprint or retina-scan a whole nation Themselves (like our troops do to occupied Afganistan and before in Iraq) there would be resistance; we only got away with it in Afghanistan and Iraq because we were an armed, occupying force. At home, they'll start integrating biometric scanners into cheap, gaudy (GOLD!) baubles so the Sheeple fingerprint themselves instead.

Your government already has my fingerprints. Every time I travel to the US, I have to leave my fingerprint at the border controls in the airport. Several years back, it was just a thumb print. But last time I went, it was all ten fingerprints.

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[--- PGP key and more on http://www.root42.de ---]

Re:Stop with the conferences by ameen.ross · 2013-09-10 20:26 · Score: 1

Maybe you failed to read his opening sentence.

I'm biased

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$(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-09-11 00:34 · Score: 1

Wait, somebody is deploying a campus-scale wireless network with PSK? In, um, 2013?

I have nothing against schools providing an open SSID(segregated from the internal network obviously, and QoSed to a priority below internal traffic; but bandwidth not being used for official purposes is effectively free, and the people who live nearby pay for the school system anyway, so why not?); but somebody needs to have a "RADIUS MOTHERFUCKER, DO. YOU. SPEAK. IT?" chat with the relevant network guy...

Re:Stop with the conferences by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-09-11 00:42 · Score: 1

I never said that it was a bad plan, or that Apple wasn't anything but really good at it.

Just that, if you want 'mindblowing new stuff!' Apple is actually pretty far down the list of people to look at. When the time comes to actually buy the new stuff, they may well have a worthy entry; but they don't do tech demos, they have a comparatively tiny R&D team, and they take a positive delight in dismissing not-ready-for-prime-time concepts as idiotic, until such time as they consider them ready for prime time and swiftly reverse themselves(eg. Amazon uses novel electrophoretic display technology to build ebook device. Steve says 'Eh, nobody reads.' goes back to selling iPods. Once Apple has a tablet-size device ready, apparently people start reading again all of a sudden; because 'iBook' is there to revolutionize reading...)

Re:Stop with the conferences by Bill_the_Engineer · 2013-09-11 01:16 · Score: 1

The Samsung has a MicroSD card slot where the Nexus 4 does not. Unlike the more expensive more recent phones, the Nexus 4 at $250 comes with only 16GB storage and no LTE support. The build quality of the Nexus 4 has been questioned. I know my coworker has one and he loves it, but his rear glass panel is shattered.

LG's successor to the Nexus 4's twin the LG Optimus G Pro now includes LTE, removed the rear glass panel, larger screen, a MicroSD expansion slot, a higher resolution camera, and is much higher in price (around the same price as the HTC one and Samsung S4).

The Nexus 4 only sold 1 million units and Google is trying to liquidate its inventory by selling them $100 cheaper. If you can live without the LTE, I'd recommend getting one while they're still available.

I however like the LTE performance of my HTC one. The build quality is much better than the Nexus 4, and the camera takes better pictures indoors. Of course, I paid $200 more for 32 GB, LTE, Aluminum Body, and a lower res camera with better low light performance.

--
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...

Re: Ghey by coinreturn · 2013-09-11 01:47 · Score: 1

I can unlock my iphone with my johnson.. so I can tell that I fuck apple.

Is that because your fingerprints are all over you johnson?

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by coinreturn · 2013-09-11 01:50 · Score: 1

If you're worried about that just use the old password system? The fingerprint thing isn't a requirement...

Stop using logic. You are confusing the haters.

Re:Stock price drop in 3, 2, 1... by coinreturn · 2013-09-11 02:01 · Score: 1

Nice quote from LAST QUARTER. This is when everyone is holding off for the new iPhone.

Re:Stop with the conferences by bingoUV · 2013-09-11 02:02 · Score: 1

So basically you were wrong about the S II. Got it.

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Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.

Re:Lack of sensor demo... by UnknowingFool · 2013-09-11 02:06 · Score: 1

That will take like a second. For a presentation, they have probably much more important things to coordinate.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.

Re:There's already a line at AAPL for the new iPho by coinreturn · 2013-09-11 02:13 · Score: 1

True. AAPL down 2.5% on this product announcement. The screen is a big disappointment.

Or up 12% since mid-August; or up 25% since mid-July; or down 40% since last October. Wow, stock prices fluctuate. Wow, people sell after they make a profit on their shares. People buy when the price falls. Film at 11:00.

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by slash.jit · 2013-09-11 02:36 · Score: 1

LOL..

New fingerprint should not be present in our dictionary.
You cannot use any previously used fingerprints.
Fingerprints should not have any repeating patterns.
Fingerprints should have at least 120 lines and must contain one Arch, one Loop and/or one Whorl pattern.

Re:Android user, was going to switch by aristotle-dude · 2013-09-11 04:51 · Score: 1

That two year release cycle looks like a growing liability to Apple in the face of much faster moving competitors.

What the devil are you talking about? They release a new model every year. Given that contracts are 2 years, that will satisfy the majority of people as they typically do not buy smartphone off contract. The competitors release a new every few months but they are typically incremental updates most of which should be released as a software update rather than new hardware.

If you want to continue ridiculous update of hardware on the android side be my guest but where pray tell can one buy an Android handset with a 64bit processor, Motion chip and fingerprint sensor like the 5S? How long will it take for Android to catch up? 6months? A year? Longer?

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Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.

Re:Stop with the conferences by Daetrin · 2013-09-11 04:59 · Score: 1

Looks like the LG Optimus G Pro is way too large. I've tried both the HTC One and Samsung Galaxy S4 in stores and they're also way too large. I can live without LTE for the Nexus 4, it's just the small storage and large screen size that aren't working for me. I have yet to see a phone with at least the specs of the Nexus 4 but more storage and a smaller screen, and your suggestions still aren't helping.

Given the propensity towards larger and larger phones i expect there won't be a 4.3" or smaller phone that matches those specs until the point where they're considered seriously out of date and just barely sufficient for a "cheap" phone.

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This Space Intentionally Left Blank

Re:There's already a line at AAPL for the new iPho by Tough+Love · 2013-09-11 05:16 · Score: 1

Down another 5% today, wise guy. The market has stated unambiguously what it thinks of Apple's latest product introduction.

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When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Re:Android user, was going to switch by Tough+Love · 2013-09-11 05:19 · Score: 1

They release a new model every year.

No they don't, they introduce a refresh with minor changes every other year. That model just doesn't cut it any more with competitors introducing genuine new models every six months or so.

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When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Re:Stop with the conferences by Kyusaku+Natsume · 2013-09-11 05:59 · Score: 1

The Apple II and the original Macintosh were mind blowing technology. Also, the iPhone and the iPad -mostly price wise, it was expected to have a price tag of USD$1000- were mind blowing technology. After all, there is a reason of why these products established technology trends.

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Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!

Re:There's already a line at AAPL for the new iPho by coinreturn · 2013-09-11 06:26 · Score: 1

Down another 5% today, wise guy. The market has stated unambiguously what it thinks of Apple's latest product introduction.

Of course this two day drop followed a huge run up in anticipation. People are taking profits. Not news.

plastic is good by bingoUV · 2013-09-11 06:37 · Score: 1

Plastic is a huge *class* of materials, not just an instance of material. Plastic can be made to not dent at much bigger impacts than most metals can.

The strength of metal is tensile. I.e. if the undertaker and Hulk Hogan grab opposite ends of your phone and pull, a metallic frame ismuch less likely to break than plastic, ceramic and wooden frame. But that is not a typical use case a phone is subject to.

In typical use cases : falling, getting squeezed very tight in pockets, dent inducing impacts etc, plastic can be made to be BETTER than metals, mostly.

Plastics can be made to be more comfortable - they won't get excessively cold in winters nor skin roasting hot if it stays in the sun for long. Ok, the latter is less of a use case, scratch that.

Plastics can be made to slip less on most surfaces. Being eclectically insulating doesn't hurt either.

It is the success of hype over fact that metal, an inferior substance for the use case has come to mean "quality ".

--
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.

Re:There's already a line at AAPL for the new iPho by Tough+Love · 2013-09-11 07:25 · Score: 1

Wow, you really are a koolaid guzzler. Why believe me?

"Many analysts are not happy with the actual iPhones unveiled by Apple Inc. (AAPL) on Tuesday. They’re concerned that the iPhone 5C isn’t priced low enough to be able to adequately address emerging markets."

"Garcha also noted that the specs of both handsets are “not quite on par” with those of other high-end handsets."

Ouch! Conservative prediction: general trend for Apple is down, for market share, for sales and for stock price. Go ahead and think of it as a retrace after a runup if it makes you feel better.

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When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Excercise Apps by Optali · 2013-09-11 08:42 · Score: 1

There's also the M7 'motion co-processor' which boosts the actions of the accelerometer, compass, and gyroscope—in theory, opening the door to more refined motion-related apps, such as ones devoted to exercise."

Any cheap run-off-the-mill's smart phone's GPS is pretty awesome in terms of determining your speed and displacement and so are the cheap accelerometers.

Unfortunately for Apple's hype in sports such as running and cycling, etc, we measure in meters, kilometers, yards and miles meaning that we don't need much refinement for that, we aren't going to die for running a meter more or less after running a 10 miler. And again, it's not that the current and even older devices aren't good enough to be accurate. We are doing sport, for Dog's sake, not origami.

Not to speak that most serious runner's wouldn't want to be seen with a huuuuuge mobile phone attached to his/her arms at no price.
Hell, there's even a tradition:
"How do you know when you are reaching the front 1/3 of a race?"
"When you pass the last guy with an iphone and earbuds"

And weight lifting or other types of fitness simply doesn't need to know the distance and an accelerometer no matter how cool isn't going to improve your bench pressing or squatting in any way.

So much for "improved accelerometers and exercise" :P

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-- 29A the number of the Beast

Re:Stop with the conferences by Bill_the_Engineer · 2013-09-11 08:54 · Score: 1

Not really. I think there is a quad core version in the EU. Samsung for a while was sending only the dual-cores to the US.

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These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...

Re: Hand over your fingerprint! by davesag · 2013-09-11 09:57 · Score: 1

I'm not sure fingerprints taken at birth would be much good to anyone.`

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I used to have a better sig than this, but I got tired of it

How to turn on LED notification on the iPhone by k2r · 2013-09-11 11:01 · Score: 1

On iOS go to General -> Acessibility -> LED Flash for Alerts. Switch it on.
Then go to Notification -> Messages -> Repeat Alert. Switch it to 10 Times.

Your iPhone will now flash the LED and repeat alerts for 10 times every two minutes.

Re:There's already a line at AAPL for the new iPho by coinreturn · 2013-09-11 12:26 · Score: 1

It's hilarious just how hard some people will try to put Apple down. The death knell has been tolling for decades. Make me feel better? Ha, I couldn't care less. I've already made my money on their stock a long time ago. If that is your "conservative prediction" you should be shorting the shit out of their stock with every dollar you have. But of course you're just a basement-dwelling mouth-breathing fAndroid who must hate Apple at any cost. Have a nice day.

Re:There's already a line at AAPL for the new iPho by Tough+Love · 2013-09-11 13:16 · Score: 1

It seems apparent that you view yourself as a well rounded individual, full of the milk of human kindness and particularly expert in the ways of finance. Go ahead and think that if it makes you feel better.

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When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Re:There's already a line at AAPL for the new iPho by coinreturn · 2013-09-12 00:36 · Score: 1

And it seems apparent that you think you and your opinions are superior to others. Thank you for giving me permission to think what I want, whether or not it "makes me feel better."

Re:Hand over your fingerprint! by MikeBabcock · 2013-09-12 12:01 · Score: 1

Having dealt with RADIUS configurations, it would add a *lot* of overhead to administer logins for every student and staff at a public school.

That said, I agree :)

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)

Re:Stop with the conferences by bingoUV · 2013-09-12 17:48 · Score: 1

No Bill the juvenile, wrong again. And the other specs are so wrong you are not even trying to defend them any more.

Even for slashdot standards, your reluctance to admit your mistake and attempt to bluff your way out of it is remarkable. But most people learn at the age of about 7 or 8 years that it doesn't fool anyone. Not you, though.

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Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.

Re:Stop with the conferences by Bill_the_Engineer · 2013-09-13 02:48 · Score: 1

Dude. Enjoy your Nexus 4. From the beginning I said it was a nice phone.

--
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...

Re:Stop with the conferences by bingoUV · 2013-09-13 03:12 · Score: 1

I don't have a Nexus 4. You want to send me one?

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Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.

Re:Stop with the conferences by Bill_the_Engineer · 2013-09-13 03:29 · Score: 1

Well the way you were QQ about it made me think otherwise.

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These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...

Re:Stop with the conferences by bingoUV · 2013-09-13 05:31 · Score: 1

Don't you get tired being wrong so much?

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Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2013-09-14 11:46 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:There's already a line at AAPL for the new iPho by coinreturn · 2013-09-23 03:25 · Score: 1

Ouch! Conservative prediction: general trend for Apple is down, for market share, for sales and for stock price. Go ahead and think of it as a retrace after a runup if it makes you feel better.

Oh, look, your conservative estimate was wrong. Like I said, stocks go up and down.

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Apple Unveils iPhone 5C, iPhone 5S

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