Getting Afghanistan Online

Tempting by Nidi62 · 2013-09-16 04:44 · Score: 5, Funny

When you ask a neighbor about Facebook, they give you a confused look. Posting a status update on Twitter is a foreign concept, and most citizens still rely on printed newspapers and radio reports.

Almost makes it sound worth the constant threat of bombings, shootings, and oppression by the Taliban.

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The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil

Re:Tempting by interkin3tic · 2013-09-16 04:50 · Score: 1

That second part really depends on HOW GOOD the newspaper or radio is.

If most Americans were to get their news from what passes as newspaper or radio these days, we would probably be in an even sorrier state.

Internet journalism isn't a whole lot better, but there's not a limited amount of it, so at least there's no editorial staff to completely suppress a story. And it's more of a dialogue, so at least there's a potential for bullshit to be outed as such.

Again, I'm not saying the internet magically cures everything that is wrong with journalism, but it can definitely be an improvement.
Re:Tempting by gl4ss · 2013-09-16 04:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

well the local newspaper is as good as the local tribal leader lets it to be.
in other words it's pure shit. that's why getting them online matters. that's why getting everyone online matters.
because that's the a way to get them out of their highly localized dictatorship dystopias. now their life is just what the local guy with most guns and dope for his gunmen wants it to be(and unfortunately those guys aren't very industrious - and making things better for their community would make them have less power...).

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:Tempting by Zemran · 2013-09-16 04:57 · Score: 1

I have just realised that the average Afghani is of a higher intellect that the average westerner...

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I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Re:Tempting by arth1 · 2013-09-16 05:01 · Score: 2, Insightful

well the local newspaper is as good as the local tribal leader lets it to be.
This is true. Whether the local tribal leader is named Jamaludin Badr or Rupert Murdoch.
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-16 05:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

Whether the local tribal leader is named Jamaludin Badr or Rupert Murdoch.
Except Ropert Murdoch has no means to compel you to stay away from competing publishers — neither by banning the competitors nor by prohibiting you to buy their wares.
And that is the key difference between a government-provided service (whether it is news, education, health care, food, shelter, or entertainment) and a privately-provided one.

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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Tempting by h4rr4r · 2013-09-16 05:24 · Score: 1

He can simply buy them all, or collude with them.
For what I see BBC which is the government option, is actually better than the private sources. This odd state of affairs occurs too regularly for my like.
In theory you would be right, but reality and theory rarely line up.
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-16 05:30 · Score: 1

He can simply buy them all, or collude with them.
And that is fine — as long as the competition remains possible to both produce and consume.

For what I see BBC which is the government option, is actually better than the private sources
Though BBC is the government option, they do have competition, which forces them to stay on their toes.

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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Tempting by h4rr4r · 2013-09-16 05:34 · Score: 1

Do you know what a monopoly is?
I highly doubt that is what keeps the BBC being the BBC. I am sure NPR is not doing this for competition either. You are projecting. Competition and the quest for the almighty dollar forces you to stay on your toes, not everyone is motivated by the same forces.
Re:Tempting by MightyYar · 2013-09-16 05:48 · Score: 1

Both the BBC and NPR have had recent scandals. Someone needs to watch the watchers.

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Tempting by h4rr4r · 2013-09-16 05:50 · Score: 2

Indeed, but the private media is more interested in twerking than doing that. The dailymail which has admitted to making up stories is now the most visited internet site for news. Do you expect them to be able to watch the other news sources, if they can't even be expected to only report things that actually happened?
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-16 06:11 · Score: 1

The dailymail which has admitted to making up stories is now the most visited internet site for news.
Then that is exactly, what their consumers want. You — as most other fans of big government — seem to hold this arrogant opinion, that you "know better" than the little men. While this may very well be, in fact, true, you should not allow yourself (nor the government) to force things upon these contemptible doofusen.
All you can (morally) do, is try to ensure, those among the subjects (yourself included), who want better, can get it. And while I have little doubt, Ropert Murdoch, were he really ever come to the power of suppressing opposition through non-business means, would do just that, my point was — and remains — that he does not have such power. Unlike the local tribal leaders, who are, after all, government officials.

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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Tempting by h4rr4r · 2013-09-16 06:13 · Score: 1

People want made up news? Are you even reading what you are typing?
Fraud is what you think people want? Then why do they even claim to be a newspaper? Why not just publish fiction as fiction?
Re:Tempting by M.+Baranczak · 2013-09-16 06:16 · Score: 1

Except Ropert Murdoch has no means to compel you to stay away from competing publishers - neither by banning the competitors nor by prohibiting you to buy their wares.
And that is the key difference between a government-provided service (whether it is news, education, health care, food, shelter, or entertainment) and a privately-provided one.
The first paragraph is true. The second implies that all monopolies are created by the government, and that all government services are monopolies. Which is obviously horseshit.
Also, the US government might suck at providing education, food or shelter, but it does a fine job of providing entertainment.
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-16 06:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

People want made up news?
People want entertainment. "Made up news" certainly fits. Michael Moore's "documentaries" were anything but, for another example. Though his international awards were in the "fiction" categories, he got rave reviews — and millions of viewers — anyway.

Why not just publish fiction as fiction?
They seem to be doing fine whatever label you put on them.

Are you even reading what you are typing?
I wish, you did — and concentrated on the point I'm making, which is, once again, that government ought not to provide non-governmental services. Never. Not even when the non-governmental providers are personally unpleasant and unscrupulous.

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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Tempting by h4rr4r · 2013-09-16 06:32 · Score: 1

Whatever label? Are you aware of what fraud even is?
I disagree, I think the public has a right to news from a source that might even try to print news. If we followed your thinking we would soon be in a corporate feudal state.
Re:Tempting by HornWumpus · 2013-09-16 06:40 · Score: 2

MSNBC/ABC/NBC/CBS/Fox/NPR still has viewers/listeners; so yes people want made up news.
Most people don't want their bubble burst. Political affiliation doesn't matter.

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John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-16 06:41 · Score: 1
The second implies that all monopolies are created by the government, and that all government services are monopolies. Which is obviously horseshit.
(Watch your language, sir... ) Anti-trust laws in America are over 100 years old. I wish, they were applied more vigorously.
I can't think of a government-provided service, a competition for which is not strongly discouraged where not outright legally banned:
- Though you may still send your children to a private school in many countries, you must pay for it in addition to the public one (which your children will not be attending).
- Though you may want your own private pension arrangements, you must still pay into Social Security fund all your working life.
- And you must enroll into the Medicare monopoly, if you want to receive those Social Security payments for which you paid.
- Post-office has always had a monopoly on the "First Class Mail" — and until 1979 there was no exception for "Extremely Urgent" correspondence, which gave rise to FedEx and UPS. An exception, that USPS can still legally suspend.
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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Tempting by clarkkent09 · 2013-09-16 06:59 · Score: 1

The second implies that all monopolies are created by the government, and that all government services are monopolies. Which is obviously horseshit.

Almost all government services are monopolies. In fact it would be hardly fair for the government (with unlimited taxpayer funding) to compete in providing a service with a private business. Almost all monopolies are created by the government. It is very hard to find examples of true monopolies that arose in a fairly free market that lasted for any length of time, and even harder to find any that were able to abuse their position before competitors jumped in. As for the government created monopolies, the examples are endless.

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Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-16 07:14 · Score: 1

Whatever label?
"Fiction" vs. "non-fiction".

Are you aware of what fraud even is?
Yes, I am very well aware, what "fraud" is. "Made up" news can be called that in anger, but it really is not — it is not any more illegal for the newspapers to lie, than it is for politicians or, indeed, you and me. (Except under oath, of course.)

I think the public has a right to news from a source that might even try to print news.
Really? A right? Is there an article in the Constitution (or whatever the supreme law is in your country) on the subject? And what/who is the judge of what's fit the print — a tribal leader leader, perhaps? An omniscient and benevolent one?

corporate feudal state
A meaningless combination of words having no relation to the topic discussed.

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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Tempting by interkin3tic · 2013-09-16 07:18 · Score: 1

Are you saying that because you're a religious libertarian, are you saying that because your tinfoil hat is on too tight, are you saying that just to be a troll, or are you saying that with real evidence of BBC corruption?
Re: Tempting by UmarOMC · 2013-09-16 07:22 · Score: 1

Not that Taliban can claim nearly as many murders in their country as the Western military machines can... just saying.

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MacPro 4,1 2.66GHz/Radeon HD 4870/Mac OS X 10.6.x
Re:Tempting by h4rr4r · 2013-09-16 07:35 · Score: 1

So then claiming it is news and printing fiction is not fraud? Lying is saying the sky is red, Fraud is claiming that this is news.
Yes, a right. As in the public should be allowed to fund a news source that might print news.
You need to read more fiction it looks like, if you did you might know what a corporate feudal state would be. You might also realize we are running headlong towards that end.
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-16 07:51 · Score: 1

So then claiming it is news and printing fiction is not fraud?
"fraud -- (intentional deception resulting in injury to another person)". The second somebody comes out with evidence of having been injured by the deception, the news outlet in question will be in serious trouble...

As in the public should be allowed to fund a news source that might print news.
There is no ban keeping you from funding whatever your heart desires to fund. But you aren't satisfied with that, are you? You want others — to whom you refer as kindly as "public" — to be forced at gun-point (which is how government collects all taxes) to help you fund it, don't you?
In other words, you have no problem with the tribal leader controlling, what gets printed — as long as he is a "good" tribal leader...

You need to read more fiction it looks like
As long as we are exchanging reading advice, might I suggest some non-fiction literature for yourself?

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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Tempting by h4rr4r · 2013-09-16 07:58 · Score: 1

How would you suggest taxes be collected?
A tribal leader? Like an elected representative?
I read lots of non-fiction. That is how I know where we are headed.
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-16 08:16 · Score: 1

How would you suggest taxes be collected?
My objection is not to how they are collected, but to how they are spent. Functioning government, defending the country from the foreign enemies and local criminals are the only morally-allowed expenditures of any funds collected through coercion.
People wishing for anything else to be available — be it for themselves or for somebody else — ought to pay on their own. Those unable to afford it (whatever "it" is) may politely ask others of charity, but none of the monies collected at gun-point can be spent on such things.

A tribal leader? Like an elected representative?
I'd venture an informed guess, that tribal leaders in Afghanistan, on average, command about the same (if not higher) respect from their subjects, than many (most?) Western politicians do from theirs. And yet, we would view their control of mass media with (a well-deserved) suspicion.
I'm puzzled, why you wouldn't apply the same standard to your own country and its government-controlled news-sources.

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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Tempting by h4rr4r · 2013-09-16 08:59 · Score: 1

I disagree. The people can decide by voting and if need be moving to do what they will with tax money. We tried it your way once upon a time, we had a poorly educated society and rampant corruption. Limiting government to that degree is simply not feasible. Read "The Jungle" to learn more.
I was not aware the USA had a government controlled news-source. Other than the private companies choosing to be government controlled in exchange for access to those government figures.
Re:Tempting by WillKemp · 2013-09-16 09:10 · Score: 1

Almost makes it sound worth the constant threat of bombings, shootings, and oppression by the Taliban.
Sorry to disillusion you, but i started using Facebook while i was living in Kabul in 06!
Re:Tempting by WillKemp · 2013-09-16 09:23 · Score: 1

(Watch your language, sir... ) Anti-trust laws in America are over 100 years old.

Incredible as it may seem, the USA is only a tiny fraction of the world!
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-16 12:27 · Score: 1

The people can decide by voting and if need be moving to do what they will with tax money.
And just why would the same people, who wouldn't — much to your anguish — punish a news-paper for fraud, be willing to punish anyone else for same?
Even where voting is meaningful (and plenty of cynics would have you believe, it is a charade), commercial competition is far more effective. If I decide, I don't like Pepsi-Cola, I don't need to wait until the next vote to have the recipe change — I can just switch to Coca-Cola (or one of the dozens others) immediately. Same with just about anything else — except for those few things, which can not be done privately in principle (like military and police).

We tried it your way once upon a time, we had a poorly educated society and rampant corruption.
Have you really? When and how? And what were the known alternatives at the time?

Read "The Jungle" to learn more.
However successful the book was at the time, I will not grant its author a second of my life. He was a Socialist and, having grown up in the USSR, I know first-hand, what the views and the policies he favored lead to, when put into practice in earnest. Lying "for a greater cause" is perfectly acceptable to such people — what is, after all, personal integrity compared to the Greater Good(TM)? Consider Heinlein's "Logic of Empire" for illustration on how grotesquely the truth needs to be twisted and the wrongs exaggerated (or outright invented) in order for a book to impress the readership into "doing something". I wouldn't believe "facts" given in the book any more, than I'd believe anything found in the movies of the aforementioned Michael Moore (Sinclair's fellow Socialist, who'd guess?).
However bad the conditions may have been for recent immigrants in Chicago, I stipulate, they weren't as bad as in most of the rest of the world at the time (1906). Russia, for example, had just shot up a workers' demonstration (the original "Bloody Sunday" of 1905) — and the workers' lives there have only become worse, when Sinclair's colleagues took power there in 1917. And that's native workers, not the recent immigrants, who always tend to live worse than the average native simply due to the transplant. On the plus side, however, America living "my way" has developed the first mass-market automobile, air-travel, water-closet and toilet paper, refrigerator and other every day conveniences. What do Socialists have to offer? Sputnik?

I was not aware the USA had a government controlled news-source.
Although it is not their sole source of revenue, NPR are receiving government funding. You can guess, what their opinion is of people, who seek to reduce the government's budget, for example...
And then there are "Voice of America", "Radio Liberty" and others broadcasting abroad (we were listening to it back in Ukraine). Until recently government was not allowed to directly broadcast in the US itself, but that rule was quietly rescinded this year.

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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-16 12:31 · Score: 1

True. This site, the /., however, is unapologetically US-centric. Get used to it, sorry.

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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Tempting by WillKemp · 2013-09-16 12:34 · Score: 1

This is an article about Afghanistan. Get used to it. Sorry.
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-16 12:42 · Score: 1

And the thread is about Ropert Murdoch and whether government should be providing services, that non-government entities can (and do) provide as well... Hard, I know.

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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:Tempting by WillKemp · 2013-09-16 13:01 · Score: 1

And Rupert Murdoch owns a very high proportion of the media in Australia - where i am. And we extradited him to you in the first place.
Re:Tempting by flayzernax · 2013-09-16 15:08 · Score: 1

Indeed, I figure your chances of landing a job is based more on local standing, previous work, age, maturity, then what the huge corporate HR can google about you in a NSA powered background search. And what whether your profiled as a good tax right off or not.
Re:Tempting by Zemran · 2013-09-16 21:51 · Score: 1

So smart that you are stupid. If you were to stop and think you would know that realised is correct, just not in your little corner of the world. An Afghani can be a unit of currency or a person from Afghanistan. As for westerner, you might know of this great country but I do not so I do not capitalise it even though I do accept that it is OK for you to do so.

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I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Re:Tempting by Zemran · 2013-09-16 21:53 · Score: 1

BTW, get your politics right, the Afghanis do not exclude girls, the Taliban do. You know, those guys that the US wants to help turn Syria into a Sharia state.

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I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Re:Tempting by h4rr4r · 2013-09-17 01:02 · Score: 1

The book was the about that time in history.
Yeah, why bother reading and critiquing when you can just fight straw men. Russia was a hellhole before the communists and after. Even today it has many of the same problems, they seem to love strongmen and dictators. Mind you they were communists, not socialists. Not sure why you mix those together. Must be easier for your little though experiment.
What do socialists have to offer? Look at Germany. Look at the nordic countries.
Re:Tempting by mi · 2013-09-17 10:10 · Score: 1

And Australia has its own anti-trust laws — and had for decades. Please, do not get overly pained, when your country's exciting uniqueness is no explicitly mentioned every time America's is.

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In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.

ORLY? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 04:45 · Score: 1

"When you ask a neighbor about Facebook, they give you a confused look. Posting a status update on Twitter is a foreign concept"

To be honest I'd like to live in a world which you describe...

Re:ORLY? by arth1 · 2013-09-16 04:54 · Score: 2

I don't use facebook, and posting a status update on Twitter is certainly a foreign concept to me too.
If that's what people think of as Internet, things have gone from bad to worse. If the trend continues, I imagine that taking a bus ride in the future means people randomly standing up and announcing things like "Fluffy had her ear wax removed" and "I bought new shoes". And the rest will applaud and pat their backs.
Re:ORLY? by Reservoir+Penguin · 2013-09-17 13:36 · Score: 1

Perfect for the 1986 Toronto dad!

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US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil

Prime Directive by ciderbrew · 2013-09-16 04:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm sure there are a lot of issues to fix first. But maybe many there are not ready for *all* the stuff on the net just yet..

Re:Prime Directive by gstoddart · 2013-09-16 04:51 · Score: 1

But maybe many there are not ready for *all* the stuff on the net just yet..
You know, after 25 years of using the internet ... some days I'm not sure I'm ready for all of it.
There's some strange stuff out there.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Prime Directive by Capt.DrumkenBum · 2013-09-16 04:59 · Score: 4, Funny

You know, after 25 years of using the internet ... some days I'm not sure I'm ready for all of it.

There's some strange stuff out there.
Citation needed... And maybe some example links.

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If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
Re: Prime Directive by ciderbrew · 2013-09-16 05:01 · Score: 1

I don't think Goatse adds much. The whole place needs a ton of education, much like you'd give a "crap with computers" relative. Don't do X,Y,Z. Filtered? I'm sure they'll get that as default.
Re:Prime Directive by gstoddart · 2013-09-16 05:13 · Score: 1

LOL ... my citation is Rule 34.
As far as example links ... I'm sure Google can help you with that.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Prime Directive by Capt.DrumkenBum · 2013-09-16 05:17 · Score: 1

Is it wrong that I was disappointed that this wasn't a goatse link?

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If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
Re:Prime Directive by gstoddart · 2013-09-16 05:40 · Score: 2

Yes, yes it is. :-P
Though, I'm sure if you're really jonesing you can probably track it down with Google.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Prime Directive by GameboyRMH · 2013-09-16 05:47 · Score: 1, Flamebait

They use little boys as sex slaves over there, and they're no stranger to gory deaths. You can find videos of what the Taliban does with their goats on LiveLeak. They'll probably think the web is mild and prudish.
"What's this, tentacle rape? Ah so this Internet thing has some balls after all."

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re: Prime Directive by MightyYar · 2013-09-16 07:00 · Score: 1

You are right. We need someone to put together a list of sites that they can and cannot go to. I suggest putting the Taliban in charge of that.

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Prime Directive by slick7 · 2013-09-16 13:46 · Score: 1

But maybe many there are not ready for *all* the stuff on the net just yet..
I'm sure they will get their "O-Bay" up and running in no time. This will be their real time selling and buying of opium and heroin online. With the majority of buyers being CIA.

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The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
Re:Prime Directive by ciderbrew · 2013-09-16 21:18 · Score: 1

Fair point not Flamebait.

Oh the humanity! by interkin3tic · 2013-09-16 04:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

Posting a status update on Twitter is a foreign concept

(silently wipes a tear away from his eye)

Also, twitter being an American company, is foreign to damn near ALL countries. As a concept, it's still weird to most Americans even.

Re:Oh the humanity! by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2013-09-16 05:09 · Score: 1

So when Angela Merkel or Vladimir Putin post on Twitter, you think they're doing it for Americans?

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#DeleteChrome
Re:Oh the humanity! by BitZtream · 2013-09-16 05:19 · Score: 1

No. They are politicians. They're life depends on people knowing they exist and lying to them. They will use ever vehicle in the known world to do so. This isn't new.
Oh, and neither Merkel nor Putin post on Twitter any more than Oprah does. If you think they do, you have no idea how politics works.

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Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Re:Oh the humanity! by gman003 · 2013-09-16 05:34 · Score: 2

They're life depends on people knowing they exist and lying to them.
Man, that sentence was easy to mis-parse. I read it as:
Their life depends on people knowing they exist and knowing that they are lying to them
not what you probably intended:
Their life depends on people knowing they exist, and on lying to the people.
Re:Oh the humanity! by interkin3tic · 2013-09-16 06:33 · Score: 1

No. Why do you ask?
Re:Oh the humanity! by DirePickle · 2013-09-16 07:10 · Score: 1

Yeah. The summary just highlights the bizarre insulated bubble that so many social media enthusiasts seem to live in.

Priorities? by benjfowler · 2013-09-16 04:49 · Score: 1

In a country, where people are dying like flies from all sorts of preventable causes, and where illiteracy, ignorance and fanaticism are rife, will they REALLY welcome this?

Oh -- and pearls before swine, and all that.

Re:Priorities? by arth1 · 2013-09-16 04:56 · Score: 5, Funny

In a country, where people are dying like flies from all sorts of preventable causes, and where illiteracy, ignorance and fanaticism are rife, will they REALLY welcome this?
I thought we did?
Oh, you're not talking about the US?
Re:Priorities? by drinkypoo · 2013-09-16 06:16 · Score: 2

In a country, where people are dying like flies from all sorts of preventable causes, and where illiteracy, ignorance and fanaticism are rife, will they REALLY welcome this?
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And that's all they've got right now, because they were seized by a theocracy and went from the center of learning and knowledge to... well, take a look.

Oh -- and pearls before swine, and all that.
You can at least water the horses that will drink.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Get off my lawn! by sjbe · 2013-09-16 04:53 · Score: 5, Informative

Imagine living in a country where only 3.5 percent of the population use the Internet.

That's not hard for anyone who is old enough to remember the 1980s. The internet as we know it today is a pretty recent development for most of the population. Before 1990 or so pretty much no one outside of academia had internet access.

Re:Get off my lawn! by DutchUncle · 2013-09-16 06:16 · Score: 1

I was going to title the same thought "Children: This is what your parents did." The Science Fiction Club at RPI - a techie school if ever there was one - mimeographed our bi-monthly newsletter and exchanged copies by mail with other school clubs. That was the only way to do it.
Re:Get off my lawn! by joe+user+jr · 2013-09-16 06:40 · Score: 1

In any case, 1.5 million out of 30 million is 5 percent (isn't it?) So the summary implies 1.5 percent (5 - 3.5) have internet access but don't use it. Maybe they use it but just won't own up!

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.sigs: Just Say No!

I can imagine 3.5% of the pop on internet. 1980s by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 04:56 · Score: 1

Seriously this is dumb. The internet is a trashpile of shitty western values. Why people don't get that is the schism is beyond me.

How to end all terrorism by Flounder · 2013-09-16 04:56 · Score: 2

Introduce an entire country to cat pics on Reddit.

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No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova

Re:How to end all terrorism by benjfowler · 2013-09-16 05:06 · Score: 2

Or /b/. That'd be hilarious.

Nice by Dunbal · 2013-09-16 05:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

Glad to see people are focusing on the important issues... Yes after 12 years of non stop war, I'm sure facebook is a huge priority and twitter will stop all the violence.

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Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.

Re:Nice by AJH16 · 2013-09-16 05:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

Giving people the ability to connect to world and understand people from other parts of it is key to peace just about anywhere? When you understand that people are people everywhere, it's far more difficult to get the general populace revved up against some great enemy. People fear the unknown and in the absence of contrary evidence, anything can be said. Now granted, it may have a more limited impact since the Internet itself is perceived as Western, but having people be able to communicate more freely is rarely a bad thing when it comes to trying to prevent popular support for attacking others.

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AJ Henderson
Re:Nice by mjkuhns · 2013-09-16 05:35 · Score: 1

You would think (well, okay, you would LIKE to think) that at some point people would stop spouting this drivel. Clarke made much the same prediction about international calling nearly 50 years ago, and it was already silly by that point. One hundred years earlier, when people were making similar predictions about the telegraph, it was arguably plausible, but the century of carnage that followed really should have illustrated the hollowness of this concept. Pray stop being a ninny.
Re:Nice by TheCarp · 2013-09-16 05:59 · Score: 1

Actually, it could be the answer to violence. How many militants go off to fight for the lack of a keyboard to sit in front of and be a tough guy on the internet? How many bombs will sit, half built, while the builder deftly slays the infidels on the internet with his clever trolling? How many will lose the will to fight today when they rail over injustice only to find themselves pointed at snopes?

--
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Re:Nice by Dunbal · 2013-09-16 06:17 · Score: 1

No, there are a whole bunch of people who, when exposed to "the world" and cultures that do things differently, want to destroy them and smash them, not understand them. They are seen as an immediate threat to their way of life. You've forgotten the Buddah statue in Afghanistan? How about all the other "World Heritage" sites that have been defaced or destroyed? How long do you think it would take for the internet to be blamed as the "root of all evil" and its users persecuted and beheaded? Hell there are some fundamentalists even in the west that have that attitude towards, say, video games.
Only liberals think that some diseases can be "cured" with a healthy dose of education and horizon broadening. YOU CANNOT SURRENDER TO A CROCODILE, IT WILL EAT YOU IF IT'S HUNGRY AND GET CLOSE ENOUGH. No matter if you have a "white flag" or not. You can even ask it very nicely not to, and it doesn't care. It is fulfilling its being. And some rabid humans fulfill theirs, smashing, destroying, and infecting others. It's been that way for thousands of years.

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Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Re:Nice by AJH16 · 2013-09-16 06:30 · Score: 1

Precisely how many wars have we had directly between nations that have cheap, easily available international calling in the last 50 years? Also, international calling failed to connect people internationally en masse. It may have allowed for it, but it was too difficult and expensive to meet and socialize with people from other parts of the world. That isn't the case with the Internet. I have friends throughout the world in just about any area that has Internet access. I have access to information about what things are actually like on the ground in many regions of the world without having to go through potentially influenced media. That kind of access to information and that kind of interpersonal relationships with people around the world makes a huge difference.
Yes, some people will still want to smash and destroy things that are different (the same can be said for plenty of people in just about any country) but for the most part, people don't want that and most frequently, it is fear that causes that.

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AJ Henderson
Re:Nice by AJH16 · 2013-09-16 06:34 · Score: 2

Also, don't get me wrong, I still think war will exist. Governments will do what is in their interest to get power and wealth, but they will do it more against the will of informed people. Just look at the number of wars that America has been involved in that had little to no popular support. It also won't stop some people from being insurrectionists, but removing the fear of unknown and the ability to spread uncheckable propaganda is certainly a significant benefit in limiting it.

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AJ Henderson
Re:Nice by DutchUncle · 2013-09-16 06:38 · Score: 1

You obviously haven't read the rants of people debunking snopes.
Re:Nice by AJH16 · 2013-09-16 06:39 · Score: 1

I never said it would fix everything, I said it would help reduce fear and reduce conflict, not stop it. There are and will always be people who don't like anyone being different from them. As you even pointed out, we have that in the US just as much as anywhere else, but fundamentally, that is based on fear of the impact of others. Communication and relationships are what make it so that other people aren't monsters and aren't unknown.
Yes, there will still be problems, yes, there will ALWAYS be people who are willing to cause physical violence to get their way, but building interpersonal relationships is always the best way to work towards reducing problems. Access to good information that can reduce fear and misinformation can't hurt either. I never said we should surrender to a crocodile, but if you feed the criters in the the pond, some of them may have just been suspicious fish. You'll still have some crocodiles that need to be put down for everyone's sake (including the other fish), but you can limit how good the conditions are for the crocodiles to mate.

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AJ Henderson
Re:Nice by TheCarp · 2013-09-16 06:56 · Score: 1

Well yes, exactly, and I guess what I would say is, they are absolutely right. While exposure to the internet doesn't make everyone lazy, doesn't diffuse all disagreements and redirect all anger, and certainly, not by any means, does it correct all ignorance.... but exposure to it does increase the likelyhood of spending more time in front of the glowing nipple and less down at their cut rate magic show (seriously, most of those guys don't even bother to learn any tricks anymore, they just claim some other dude did them when you weren't there...at least the snake dancers still put on a show)

--
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Re:Nice by Anonymuous+Coward · 2013-09-16 07:35 · Score: 1

Yes, there will still be problems, yes, there will ALWAYS be people who are willing to cause physical violence to get their way, but building interpersonal relationships is always the best way to work towards reducing problems.

No. Many people are just rabidly, abjectly bigoted, reactionary fucks. And access to information tools only tends to exacerbate it.
If you ever lived in one of those third-world countries, you would know that the middle-class, relatively affluent (ie exactly the people a westerner can relate to) are the ones that are falling for all that conservative or revolutionary trash. In Afghanistan, that's probably the 1.5 million with access to the internet.
You need solid bourgeois values (foremost hypocrisy and intelectual dishonesty) and LOTS of free time to ingurgitate the amount of bullshit needed to be able to embrace any ideology.
Re:Nice by TheSeatOfMyPants · 2013-09-16 12:40 · Score: 1

Only liberals think that some diseases can be "cured" with a healthy dose of education and horizon broadening.
Nah, it's a subset of liberals, mostly the ones young enough to have not had their ideals squashed by reality over-and-over -- it's just that when the Boomers were that age, they garnered so much press with their antics that the whole Left was painted with the reputation long-term. Now the vast majority of liberals know better; we still want to help people, but very few over age 30 still think it's just a matter of setting people straight.

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Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)

No problem by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2013-09-16 05:02 · Score: 1

A conference about web-driven technologies, held in a country where they shoot girls for daring to leave the house or go to school - no way that'll be a target for the Taliban...

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#DeleteChrome

God help them. by LoRdTAW · 2013-09-16 05:07 · Score: 2

"Imagine living in a country where only 3.5 percent of the population use the Internet. When you ask a neighbor about Facebook, they give you a confused look. Posting a status update on Twitter is a foreign concept, and most citizens still rely on printed newspapers and radio reports." ... And life is good.

Seriously, if bringing the internet to Afghanistan requires telling people about how hard life must be without twitter or facebook then you fail. The internet is more about breaking borders and giving people access to information they otherwise could not get locally. Not endless self serving and attention whoring status updates.

Airdrop a Sat Com station?? by RobertLTux · 2013-09-16 05:09 · Score: 1

What kind of range could you get from airdropping a shipping container with half sat com and half "civilian contractors"?

is Power and Water a more or less solved problem (for areas with a decent number of folks) and how much of your time would be spent TroubleShooting the locals as apposed to the local network?

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Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge

paging JonKatz! by Thud457 · 2013-09-16 05:10 · Score: 1

hey, this reminds me of a story from 2001 : hee hee C= OMGWTFBBQ!

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the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Re:paging JonKatz! by Admiral_Grinder · 2013-09-16 05:16 · Score: 1

I would like to see a followup to this one. Even if it is a "I'm alive and doing fine"

Junis emailed to say hello by LNO · 2013-09-16 05:12 · Score: 2

Those of us who have been here for twelve years have fond memories of JonKatz posting about Junis, who hid his "ancient Commodore" (one of four in the village) under the boards of a chicken coop. And of course he was obsessed with Linux, mesmerized by open source and Slashdot, and all of that was totally plausible.

Shine on, Junis and the Slashdot of yesteryear. Shine on.

IN the land of the blind by goombah99 · 2013-09-16 05:21 · Score: 1

the man with AOL is king.

--
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.

Getting Online requires power ... by BitZtream · 2013-09-16 05:23 · Score: 1

How about you start there.

What the fuck is this crap? Ignorant drivel from people to stupid to know what Afghanis real problems are?

Let me give you a hint, society is fully functional without the Internet when you can actually eat. The Internet is worthless when you can't eat, or get your head blown off for showing your face or standing up for your self.

People dying of starvation and lack of clean water really don't give a flying fuck about the Internet, and they don't NEED the Internet to solve those problems.

This sort of utter ignorance is an example of why some groups over there want to blow us up, and frankly, we'd deserve it if this were a common feeling among our populations. Fortunately, most of us are not still in high school or tweens like the author.

--
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager

Re:Getting Online requires power ... by h4rr4r · 2013-09-16 05:31 · Score: 2

The internet can tell you how to grow food or clean water. It can also help you find like minded individuals so you can stand up to those who want to shoot you in the face.
That sort of post is the utter ignorance that might be why some groups want to blow us up.
Re:Getting Online requires power ... by h4rr4r · 2013-09-16 05:37 · Score: 1

People have been dying of dysentery for even longer.
The internet is one way to cure ignorance, try reading something informative. If you have no one to teach you about clean water and electricity production then the internet would be a great place to look.
Get off the internet if you find it so detestable.
Re:Getting Online requires power ... by jbeaupre · 2013-09-16 05:43 · Score: 1

I think the idea is that if you give people first world problems, they won't have third world ones.
It think there is a step about underpants and profit in there too, but I could be mistaken.

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The world is made by those who show up for the job.
Re:Getting Online requires power ... by sdinfoserv · 2013-09-16 07:38 · Score: 1

No, it doesn't. Your thinking like a westerner. It simply doesn't work that way in the Middle East. Information is the enemy. If your found with the enemy you will be punished.

Afghanistan Online by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-16 05:35 · Score: 1

So is that like some kind of new Call of Duty MMO? Did Velcroman get an advanced copy or into a beta? Where's the reviews? I'm searching but the most I can gather is that there's some bug with too many IEDs spawning, and you'd figure after being in development for so many years with such a huge budget they'd have done something about that by now.

Afghanistan so far removed from China? by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · 2013-09-16 05:38 · Score: 1

When you ask a neighbor about Facebook, they give you a confused look. Posting a status update on Twitter is a foreign concept, and most citizens still rely on printed newspapers and radio reports.

This could also be said about China, although they do have their own in country Twitter knock off that does get used and is subjected to heavy government censorship. About all a Chinese person can tell you about Facebook, if they've heard of it at all, is that they are officially blocked from using it.

Re:And Nothing of Value Was Lost by GameboyRMH · 2013-09-16 05:52 · Score: 1

Who said getting them online was to help them? Facebook demands more users! More cheap page hits for the empire!

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel

Re:what's with all the foxnews links from velcroma by GameboyRMH · 2013-09-16 05:55 · Score: 1

He's posted a lot of Fox News links recently but they're a small percentage of his submissions overall.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel

Quality of Life by EmagGeek · 2013-09-16 05:58 · Score: 1

Why is Quality of Life measured by whether and how fast someone can access the Internet?

The Internet is not the end-all, be-all of whether life is worth living.

Sounds like a job for Steve Case by MXPS · 2013-09-16 06:04 · Score: 1

He got America online, now he can do with it Afghanistan. AOL will live on!

Re:Sounds like a job for Steve Case by TheSeatOfMyPants · 2013-09-16 12:51 · Score: 1

AfghanistanOnLine? Then again, the people everywhere else using the same languages (there are quite a few) might not be terribly thrilled at a Westerner inflicting the equivalent of Eternal September on them.

--
Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)

Really you expected better? by updatelee · 2013-09-16 06:07 · Score: 1

ok, so lets break down some issues.

30m people, 57% are over 15, so thats 17.1m

17.1m people, 28% over 15 are literate., so thats 4.8m

you have 4.8m people, 1.5m are on the internet, thats 32% of the population over 15 that can read are on the internet.

not bad really is it. Especially for an average income of $426/year, can you really expect better ?

UDL

Are the Afhans better at math? by damn_registrars · 2013-09-16 06:32 · Score: 2

1.5M / 30M is 5%, not 3.5%. This is not a difficult calculation people.

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Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.

Re:Are the Afhans better at math? by oodaloop · 2013-09-16 07:29 · Score: 1

Presumably, the difference is those who have access but don't use it.

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Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.

To do what? by nospam007 · 2013-09-16 06:33 · Score: 1

56.9 % of the male population are illiterate and 87.4 of the female population.
They can't just watch cat videos all day.

Message from Kabul by isorox · 2013-09-16 06:37 · Score: 2

From 12 years ago
http://www.tech.slashdot.org/story/01/11/17/204207/Message-from-Kabul

An open information society is inevitable. I was a little surprised last week to receive a forwarded e-mail from Junis, who lives in a small town 35 miles southwest of Kabul. This weekend, a movie theater and video store opened up again in Kabul (rentingIndependence Day), Afghan TV cranked up, and so did the Net. Americans understand all too well that our techno-driven culture produces wonders and dangers, but it's one of the most popular social and political forces in the world. Passion for pop culture relentlessly undermined repressive governments like Poland, East Germany and the former Soviet Union. The world, it turns out, really is porous now. Technology and information will squeeze through every closed nook and crevice. The Taliban never made a dent in the attachment this Afghan programmer and his friends had for it.
When his message came, the Taliban had just fled, Northern Alliance soldiers had taken over his village, and everybody rushed to barbers to cut off their beards and to nearby holes and hiding spots to dig up their Walkmen, VCRs, TVs, CD players, and -- in Junis's case -- his ancient Commodore, one of four in the village. Cafes had popped up all over, with impromptu dances and parties everywhere.

Junis's e-mail -- routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London -- was a reminder that there are civil liberties, and then there are civil liberties. Computers had been banned under penalty of death by the Taliban (except for the Taliban themselves), along with music and TV. Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired. He was genial and obsessed with American culture. He loved martial arts movies, anything to do with Star Wars, and rap. He was perhaps the Taliban's prime kind of target. (Now he's furiously trying to download movies he's missed and is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot.)

"I could still see the dust of the pick-up trucks carrying the Taliban out of my village," he wrote, "and some friends and I went and dug up the boards of a chicken coop where I had hid the computer. They might have beaten or killed us if they'd found it. It was forbidden, although they used computers all of the time." He claims American commandos are skulking around dressed as Northern Alliance tribesmen.

Junis describes life under the Taliban as brutal, terrifying and profoundly boring. What the people in his town -- especially the kids -- missed most was music, posters of Indian and American movie stars (he'd kept his own decaying poster of Madonna), and American TV. Junis missed the fast-changing Web and sees, he says, that he has fallen "forever behind," and that programming is more complex than ever. But at least "Baywatch," which everyone in his town acutely missed, is back, and there's already a lot of talk about "Survivor." Junis predicts "Temptation Island" will be the number one show in Afghanistan within a month.

If the world needed another demonstration of America's most powerful weapon -- not bombs or special forces but pop culture -- it got it again this week. People all over the planet fuss about whether this healthy and democratic or corrupting and dehumanizing, but people's love for American techno-toys, TV shows, music and movies is breathaking. Watching TV pictures of tribesman on horseback, it's easy to forget that technology reached deep into this culture as well. Junis says phone service around Kabul remains spotty, but reporters, U.N. workers and foreign soldiers are wiring up. He's already made his way to some sex sites, and wishes he had a printer.

There are many computers in Afghanistan, Junis said, many in clusters in cities like Kabul and Kandahar (news reports have frequently mentioned that Bin-Laden's organization used both e-mail and encrypted files to communicate). Computer geeks are already hooking up with one anot

Re:Message from Kabul by flayzernax · 2013-09-16 16:33 · Score: 1

Sounds great, but give it 20 years and see how it looks =)
Technology is a double edge sword. Right now its in the hands of the oppressed good villagers. When their governments and corporations or businesses get their hands on the same technology. People will wonder at the change in landscape.
Re:Message from Kabul by isorox · 2013-09-16 23:48 · Score: 1

Sounds great, but give it 20 years and see how it looks =)
Technology is a double edge sword. Right now its in the hands of the oppressed good villagers. When their governments and corporations or businesses get their hands on the same technology. People will wonder at the change in landscape.
Well this allegedly happened 12 years ago.
Re:Message from Kabul by flayzernax · 2013-09-17 01:39 · Score: 1

The most recent news I read about Internet connectivity in Afghanistan was that it was still a grass roots movement done by amatuers and not corporate yet. Many Taliban recruits (young teens) basically sending messages back to their families and other random users throughout the countryside. Have not read to many positive stories. Than again I do not pay particular interest to the state of affairs in Afghanistan. I'm sure the same story from above still rings true in some cases. Someones got their secret or buried computer. I wonder if the U.S. has taken to searching everyones computers for "encryption" or "taliban social media?" who knows.
Re:Message from Kabul by isorox · 2013-09-17 04:41 · Score: 1

The most recent news I read about Internet connectivity in Afghanistan was that it was still a grass roots movement done by amatuers and not corporate yet. Many Taliban recruits (young teens) basically sending messages back to their families and other random users throughout the countryside. Have not read to many positive stories. Than again I do not pay particular interest to the state of affairs in Afghanistan. I'm sure the same story from above still rings true in some cases. Someones got their secret or buried computer. I wonder if the U.S. has taken to searching everyones computers for "encryption" or "taliban social media?" who knows.
Well I've just ordered a 10mbit fibre to be installed in one of my Kabul offices, replacing the existing sat connection. If it goes well, will order another 1 or 2.
Of course Kabul is not Afghanistan. But it's not Somalia either, computers are available, mobile phones are available, the internet is there.
Re:Message from Kabul by flayzernax · 2013-09-17 11:46 · Score: 1

Glad to hear =)
Good luck.

Re:I wish I did not have to imagine it by HornWumpus · 2013-09-16 06:51 · Score: 1

Just ignore facebook. Instant 99% reduction of noise on the net. Just like AOL of old.

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'

confusing look by flex941 · 2013-09-16 07:03 · Score: 1

When somebody asks me about Facebook, I give them a confused look. That doesn't mean I do not use internet. Actually most of my days are filled with internet from dusk till dawn and then some extra.

Really?!? by sdinfoserv · 2013-09-16 07:36 · Score: 1

"Imagine living in a country where only 3.5 percent of the population " ------- have food to eat. The rest cook the scraps they can find with Camel sh*t and spend their day trying NOT to step on remnant land mines or getting be-headed for saying the wrong thing or NOT having their faces splashed with acid for wearing inappropriate clothing. Sorry Charlie, but 'liking' Levi's isn't the days top priority. It’s a 3rd world sh*t hole they have significantly bigger problems than internet. Anyone who thinks intent will solve the problems take a long hard look at Iran. http://www.ihatethemedia.com/life-in-iran-1979-versus-2009 .

Re:Really?!? by Reservoir+Penguin · 2013-09-17 13:58 · Score: 1

What does Iran have to to do with this thread?

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US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil

And do they care? by rickb928 · 2013-09-16 07:38 · Score: 1

Since Afghanistan's literacy rate was 43.1% among men in 2000, I wonder if they could care much at all.

And if you're wondering why I don't mention the literacy rate among women, you know so little about Afghanistan that you should be reading XKCD instead, where your ignorance is anticipated.

No, the Afghans don't much care about the Internet. Those who do are either the problem, or will be disposed of if the Taliban regain control.

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deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.

Re:And Nothing of Value Was Lost by WillKemp · 2013-09-16 09:36 · Score: 1

I can imagine people there have things more important to worry about.

Like not being able to read or write, for a start. Nearly 90% of women and well over 50% of men can't read or write. The internet's not going to be much use to them!

Re:And Nothing of Value Was Lost by mythosaz · 2013-09-16 10:43 · Score: 1

I'm just guessing here, but there's probably some education broadcasts on the internet somewhere...

Re:And Nothing of Value Was Lost by TheSeatOfMyPants · 2013-09-16 13:06 · Score: 1

The vast majority of the country is illiterate, so how will they find the educational broadcasts? Their main educational need at this point is to ensure they're allowed to teach one another regardless of gender, and when it comes to basic literacy, being IRL tends to work a whole lot better.

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Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)

Good OLPC territory by Antique+Geekmeister · 2013-09-16 14:51 · Score: 1

This sounds like excellent territory for the Linux based, programmer friendly, free software "One Laptop Per Child" project. The lack of expensive computing power and Windows integration reduces its usefulness for games and expensive or pirated software, they're surprisingly robust, their power consumption is minimal, and their brilliant use of LCD technology makes the batteries last far longer and be far easier to recharge in what is effectively a third world nation.
Quoting from the website for OLPC: "The XO is also designed for constant connectivity. A few children working together under a tree can connect to each other without any other hardware, and a class full of students can share collaborative activities with one another and see what their classmates are doing."

This is exactly the kind of well-designed, robust technology that education and medicine and shopkeepers can use effectively in a third world nation.

Re:And Nothing of Value Was Lost by Reservoir+Penguin · 2013-09-17 13:45 · Score: 1

You don't need to be literate to look at funny cat pics and porn. That's over 90% of the Internet.

--
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil

Re:And Nothing of Value Was Lost by eriqk · 2013-09-18 00:49 · Score: 1

The vast majority of the country is illiterate, so how will they find the educational broadcasts?

I dunno, maybe literate folks will help them out?

Re:they'll be fine by eriqk · 2013-09-18 00:55 · Score: 1

Prior to 1950 we had a fucking world war.

Re:Taliban in Syria by Zemran · 2013-09-21 18:38 · Score: 1

I take it that you do not follow what is happening on this world. The US wants to support the rebels in Syria. That consists of the Taliban and Al Qaida. That is this planet. The Taliban is not a phenomena of one area. It has a much wider appeal. I am wasting my time trying to talk logically to some AC school kid who thinks he has an IQ.

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I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.

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