Valve Announces Steam Controller

This actually looks really unusable by i+kan+reed · 2013-09-27 06:23 · Score: 5, Interesting

I don't mind the trackpads, they could be alright. Maybe. But the fact that they expect you to alternately press buttons with either hand makes me feel like it could be hard to simultaneously move and act in a game.(This must be how lefties feel all the time)

Re:This actually looks really unusable by rsborg · 2013-09-27 06:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

I don't mind the trackpads, they could be alright. Maybe. But the fact that they expect you to alternately press buttons with either hand makes me feel like it could be hard to simultaneously move and act in a game.(This must be how lefties feel all the time)
Looking at the controller images, I'd be worried about triggering the touchpad while my hand is traveling to a button. WHy not put the buttons to the side?
The hackable nature of the controller sounds pretty cool, though and the haptic "speaker surface" like touchpads sound like they'd make some very awesome interfaces to play around with.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by IndustrialComplex · 2013-09-27 06:37 · Score: 4, Informative

If my experience with trackpad controls on phone games is anything to go by, I think it's a very bad idea. Incorporating a trackpad isn't necessarily a bad idea, but I can't stand the 'virtual D-pads' in mobile games. I'm constantly losing my 'center' and my thumbs slip out of the 'zero' position and I'll have to constantly reposition my thumbs back onto the center of the virtual D-pad. I've given up on many games (some of which are console ports) because I just can't stand that style of interface for directional movement.
I hope that I'm wrong, because I don't like how my xbox360 controller behaves on my computer and would love an alternative, but I have really strong reservations about their plan.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by Qzukk · 2013-09-27 06:40 · Score: 2

Yeah, this design is basically screaming "Please redesign all your games with our controller in mind!" X and Y on the left? If you're lucky you'll be able to remap the controls so shit you never use is on X and Y. Meanwhile the giant right trackpad will be mostly unused except for the few games with camera control on the right stick. Of the games I play with a controller (on both console and PC), right stick is used well by twinstick shooters and poorly by FPSes, and not at all by pretty much every single other game.
The rear buttons also look like they'll be a nightmare for anyone with hands that aren't the right size to grip the controller with the fingertips resting on the button.
I'll stick to my logitech F310.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by cazzazullu · 2013-09-27 06:40 · Score: 2

The trackpad is clickable as well. touching it will bring up the selection screen briefly, but will not actually select something, for that you have to click.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 06:45 · Score: 1

I'm constantly losing my 'center' and my thumbs slip out of the 'zero' position and I'll have to constantly reposition my thumbs back onto the center of the virtual D-pad.
I think that's why the trackpad is a dimple. Not having held it in my hand, there's no way to be sure, but the feedback cues from a thumb that a control stick is centered, i.e. at the top of a virtual spheroid, should probably hold true for an inverted spheroid.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Hatta · 2013-09-27 06:48 · Score: 2

Don't worry, you'll almost certainly be able to use your existing USB joypads with your Steam Machine. I'm glad Valve is trying something new with this controller. It probably will suck, but that's why Steam OS is configurable.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by Carnivore · 2013-09-27 06:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

As opposed to the entirely smooth surface of your mobile, it looks like these have concentric ridges to solve just your problem; they give a tactile map of where the center is.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by camperdave · 2013-09-27 06:52 · Score: 5, Funny

This actually looks really unusable
Actually, it looks like speakers.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by shadowrat · 2013-09-27 06:53 · Score: 5, Insightful

If my experience with trackpad controls on phone games is anything to go by, I think it's a very bad idea.
where those phone games, "built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators"?

no? then your experience is invalid.

honestly, i look at it this way. It might work. It might suck. either way, it's just a controller. i already have a system to use it with it. So, pending some horrible hands on reviews, i'll probably just pick one up and see for myself.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Millennium · 2013-09-27 06:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

Lefty here. It's actually not so bad. I suspect that this is part of why the traditional layout spaces them similarly to the ends of a D-pad: you righties don't seem to have any trouble using that, and for us lefties, it's a similar story with the buttons.
But I am concerned with this splaying them out over the corners of the center touch screen. It could have some advantages in cases where you're expected to alternate between different buttons, but on the whole I can't see it being all that comfortable.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Kelbear · 2013-09-27 07:01 · Score: 5, Interesting

Important difference here is that you have tactile feedback on your thumbs position relative to the center.
Furthermore, since the surface is clickable, it can be customized to only register input upon click-in...like a D-pad! On the right side of the controller, the trackpad 4 quadrants can function as a replacement XYBA. Mappings which are traditionally assigned to clicking a stick in, can be moved to the back of the controller.
I am cautiously optimistic about the design of this controller, it all hinges upon the execution of these ideas and the quality of construction. If nothing else, it would be a better way to play FPS and RTS games since it replaces relative input (i.e stick position relative to cetner), with absolute input (the input starts and stops in sync with the start and stop of the thumb movement).
Instead of constant movement towards a target, and having to time the release of the stick with the time of interception, you move until matched with the target and then stop moving, akin to a mouse input. I have not seen trackpad sensitivity that can sufficiently replace mouse input, but Valve is claiming to have reached unprecedented levels of trackpad precision. Really can't judge the capability of this controller until real-world feedback comes in, but at least conceptually, I can see this being a step-up from the controller input already popularized on Xbox and PS platforms.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by i+kan+reed · 2013-09-27 07:06 · Score: 1

See, but the way game controls are actually created, the dpad is for slow, methodical, or long-term tactical functions, and buttons are for "twitch" actions, like throwing a grenade or switching weapons or melee or whatever(note that none of these combine with requirements for precise looking that the right joystick is usually bound to).
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Kelbear · 2013-09-27 07:08 · Score: 4, Interesting

Actually, they can be speakers:
"This haptic capability provides a vital channel of information to the player - delivering in-game information about speed, boundaries, thresholds, textures, action confirmations, or any other events about which game designers want players to be aware. It is a higher-bandwidth haptic information channel than exists in any other consumer product that we know of.
As a parlour trick they can even play audio waveforms and function as speakers."
Re:This actually looks really unusable by FictionPimp · 2013-09-27 07:15 · Score: 2

I worry about high stress in video games and losing the whole location.
I can force down on a thumbstick during a car chase in GTA V and not worry about exact position, just push up and my fingers tell me I've reached the edge of motion because the stick stops moving. I don't think this will translate well at all....
Re:This actually looks really unusable by ZombieBraintrust · 2013-09-27 07:23 · Score: 1

They don't expect you to use both sides. It is symetrical so left handed people can mirror the the controls. It is similer to how the Dualshock face buttons mirror the dpad.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by srollyson · 2013-09-27 07:27 · Score: 1

I'd be worried about triggering the touchpad while my hand is traveling to a button. WHy not put the buttons to the side?
There was a third-party Xbox controller called the FPS Master that moved the face buttons to the grips of the controller to be manipulated by your middle and ring fingers. I wish we had seen something like it in the 360/PS3 generation but third-party controller support was largely shut down by the console manufacturers.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Nemyst · 2013-09-27 07:55 · Score: 1

While I still have some reservations about this new controller, one thing I've always thought could potentially work is using two trackpads to effectively provide two simultaneous modes of input: a fast, imprecise trackpad for broad movements and a slower, much more accurate one for fine movements. Two trackpads would then let you, with some practice and adaptation, emulate a mouse. Sure, it's not as practical because it requires two hands to control, but with good button mapping this might not be an issue.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by IndustrialComplex · 2013-09-27 08:04 · Score: 1

If my experience with trackpad controls on phone games is anything to go by, I think it's a very bad idea.
where those phone games, "built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators"?
no? then your experience is invalid.
That's a pretty way to say: Magnets will bounce in the controller corresponding to motion in the game.
Unless those "super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators" are actuating my thumb back to the center of the trackpad, I kind of think my concern is still valid.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by asliarun · 2013-09-27 08:08 · Score: 5, Insightful

If my experience with trackpad controls on phone games is anything to go by, I think it's a very bad idea.
where those phone games, "built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators"?
no? then your experience is invalid.
honestly, i look at it this way. It might work. It might suck. either way, it's just a controller. i already have a system to use it with it. So, pending some horrible hands on reviews, i'll probably just pick one up and see for myself.
Thank you! For finally bringing some perspective into this conversation.
The trend nowadays seems to be to first trash and ridicule anything new or innovative that anyone does. Or better still, list out the 10 reasons why something like this should never have been built in the first place. Jeez man, maybe we should just send some people over to work in the patent office - maybe, we can harness all the negativity to solve the "stupid patent" problem.
I have no clue if this controller will really work well in real life or not. But we can definitely say
- This is indeed very innovative. For the first time, someone truly thought out of the box and redesigned a game controller from the ground up, instead of just adding more haptics. Well.. the Wii controller notwithstanding.
- Love the attempt at how they've translated the "keyboard WASD + mouse" way of navigation in an FPS to a controller. Might *just* work. More power to you, Valve!
- Sure, it will have a fairly steep learning curve and people will complain like hell, but hey, so does any other control mechanism.
- For me, the litmus test will be playing Counter Strike using these controllers. Or maybe I'm getting old, but it still remains the benchmark game for me as far as an FPS is concerned.
P.S. Isn't Steam Engine a better name than Steam Box?
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Reapy · 2013-09-27 08:11 · Score: 2

EA games have made a push (haven't played one in a few years so not sure if still doing this) for having more controls on the right stick. In the sports games you could flick in a direction for 'skill moves' that worked sort of well. The best use of it was in fight night for throwing punches, still probably the best boxing implementation I've ever played. They also had the Skate game that I never played, but made use of the right stick in the same way.
It might open up some new stuff, I could see some cool say arrow shooting or throwing game where you do an angry birds like motion to chuck things at people maybe.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Kelbear · 2013-09-27 08:19 · Score: 2

To that end, FPS game controller layouts typically don't map the fire button to the click-in of the right stick, precisely because you lose precision during click-in. Typically they use a non-thumb button like the right trigger for firing to avoid jostling the thumb position. They also require only very light pressure to trigger firing for the same reason.
Can't really imagine the click-in of the trackpad has having too wide a range of functionality, because of shifting during click-in. It might be limited to 8-way directionality on the left side? One of my concerns with the right side is that it seems the entire surface will click-in, which means you can't hit for example, top quadrant,and left quadrant (X+Y on an xbox360 controller) simultaneously. If they were to simply map the upper left area as X+Y there might be too many accidental inputs.
If I could give Valve some feedback, I'd like those concentric circle ridges to also have an overlaid "X" ridge to show the borders of the top/bottom/left/right quadrants as well as show an exact location for intermediate directions directly under the ridges of the "X". That might return the possibly of functional X+Y button combinations using this device.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Isca · 2013-09-27 08:26 · Score: 1

"steam engine" is most likely not copy writable.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Kelbear · 2013-09-27 08:27 · Score: 2

To that end, nearly all AAA shooters attempt to address fine aim control using "magnetic" crosshairs. Sensitivity on the sticks start with a base acceleration and top speed. But if you intersect a target with the crosshairs, a "soft-lock" engages where the crosshairs are partially dragged along in the general direction that the target moves, while sensitivity is temporarily reduced to allow for finer control of where you target. Crosshair sensitivity is commonly reduced when aiming-down-sights as well. In effect, the idea of having a broad movement and a fine movement control is being addressed contextually by the game. This requires a lot of refinement specific to each game, and resulting in some really really shitty controls in the earlier years of console shooters. They've improved considerably since then, and the general concept of how to apply soft-lock aiming has become common knowledge among dev studios.
This is important because the vast majority of development hours will be directed towards analog-stick based control for xbox and playstation releases. This means that when PC versions are released, developers can piggy-back this aim tuning for steam's controller as well, since it was already produced for the console version.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Isca · 2013-09-27 08:29 · Score: 1

I don't think people who are left handed would want this. But that doesn't mean there wouldn't be a third party controller made with the option of reversing the two pads.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Andrio · 2013-09-27 08:59 · Score: 1

This is nothing like gaming on mobile devices. For one, these trackpads have a curvature to them, as well as edges. This provides tactile feedback for always knowing where your thumb is.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by vux984 · 2013-09-27 09:00 · Score: 2

Its not just sensitivity that makes a mouse superior - its the ability to stop or hold a fixed position.
Its very easy to put a cross hair in the expected path of a target with the mouse, and then wait for the target.
Its much much harder to do the same with a stick. With a thumb-trackpad... I'm not sure. it should be eaiser than a stick, but it still would require you to hold your thumb absolutely still. I imagine attempting to lift your thumb off the pad will be nearly impossible to do without moving the cursor -- something that is pretty easy with a mouse (and physically impossible with an autocentering thumbstick)
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Kelbear · 2013-09-27 09:10 · Score: 1

No need for third-party involvement there:
"Buttons
Every button and input zone has been placed based on frequency of use, precision required and ergonomic comfort. There are a total of sixteen buttons on the Steam Controller. Half of them are accessible to the player without requiring thumbs to be lifted from the trackpads, including two on the back. All controls and buttons have been placed symmetrically, making left or right handedness switchable via a software config checkbox."
http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Luckyo · 2013-09-27 09:13 · Score: 2

This is the main reason why mouse will likely reign supreme as a controller for foreseeable future. It enables you to transfer movements of entire hand into pixel accurate control inputs, while keeping your fingers free for buttons.
That and it functions on a surface, which means that your hand can rest on the surface while inputting the motion controls, so it's not nearly as tiring as it would be without that support.
As a result, I really doubt that it's even possible to make a controller to match a mouse keyboard combo. This isn't so much a limitation of hardware on the computer/console as much as limitation of human body. Mouse is just that good.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 09:31 · Score: 1

Do you really think that is why people prefer keyboard + mouse? As in, did you actually spend time to contemplate the issue, and then come up with "poor dexterity" as the reason?
I ask because I am curious whether you are simply trolling or happen to be brain damaged. I suppose that is not entirely fair, since you could be both, but we will leave that possibility aside for now.
Re: This actually looks really unusable by Pluvius · 2013-09-27 09:32 · Score: 4, Insightful

PC gamers aren't interested, they still need help from keyboard+mouse combinations to aid them in games that actually require precision to play well .
FTFY
Rob
Re:This actually looks really unusable by Darinbob · 2013-09-27 09:44 · Score: 1

I spend all day using a keyboard and mouse. Thus those are the controls I am most familiar with and work best with even in a game. Even this new controller I think won't get rid of the feeling that you're on a specialized and unfamiliar system meant for someone with different types of hands.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by jo_ham · 2013-09-27 10:20 · Score: 2

Why would a product name need to be copyright-able?
You're thinking of trade marking, which does not require a unique name, just that you be unique in your area of sales/use (eg, Microsoft Windows/actual windows, Apple Computer/Apple Records, Ford Focus/the verb 'to focus', Steam (the gaming platform)/steam (gaseous water).
Re:This actually looks really unusable by jo_ham · 2013-09-27 10:21 · Score: 3, Informative

They addressed that in question 2 of the FAQ - if you are happy with kb and mouse then you can continue to be so. The controller is supplemental, and their attempt to address the problem of PC gaming from the couch for those who don't want to sit at a desk or use a keyboard and mouse on their lap.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by ediron2 · 2013-09-27 10:39 · Score: 1

It looks cool, but I'm not optimistic about this. This reminds me of what sucks about new car stereos and touchscreen phones: I can't do stuff without looking at the damn buttons, and I used to have that blind-friendly interface via tactile feedback.
Buttons and Joysticks have an advantage touchpads and pushy circles lack: Nuanced tactile response. I can *feel* which direction I have the joystick jammed, with an accuracy of several degrees. That normally wouldn't seem like much, until the motion arc of half-an-inch is taken into consideration. Tactile controllers and buttons and joysticks provide back-pressure my finger or thumb feels: 185 degrees feels vastly different than 180 or 175 degrees. If I want to transmit a control action a few degrees left or right, I make and feel the course adjustment before I see it on-screen. If I push A-B repeatedly and keep 'guessing' that B is further than it is, I don't need to glance down to know I overshot -- my thumb feels I'm on the far crown of the button and I adjust the spacing almost subconsciously until I've got their relative positions **LOCKED**.
We all know this isn't new stuff, but by FSM, all manufacturers seem intent upon ignoring the concepts. More recent rental cars I've driven do seem to be trying to unlearn a decade of mistakes on car stereos, though: I'm seeing toggles and buttons in the steering wheel, sometimes the pushbutton interface of 1950's AM car stereos is back with helpful info appearing onscreen above each button... eventually. I'm curious where we'll end up. Maybe voice obviates the need. Or maybe we'll get OLED buttons and folks can stop trying to uninvent tactile interfaces. Or maybe the maker of a 50 dollar joystick will realize that spending extra beans on tactile components is worth it for a device that will consume hundreds of user hours on applications where tactile response is a crux competitive advantage.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by drinkypoo · 2013-09-27 11:38 · Score: 1

Important difference here is that you have tactile feedback on your thumbs position relative to the center.
Not different. I have an Xperia Play. It has two trackpads which mimic analog gamepads. They have little center pips on them so you can find the center. They still suck to use. This will suck less because it's more ergonomic, but it will still suck.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by drinkypoo · 2013-09-27 11:43 · Score: 1

where those phone games, "built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators"?

Aside from resonant, which is irrelevant bullshit as far as actually controlling something with the pads is concerned, the answer is yes. Games were optimized for the Xperia Play, which means they had support for dual analog controls. That's precisely as "built around" this controller as most Steam titles are going to be. They'll work equally well with a Sony controller, which has most of the same functionality more or less, albeit with analog sticks instead of gimmicky touchpads. The Xperia Play also has dual touchpads and it sucks to use compared to dual analog sticks. Dual analog sticks won't fit on a phone, but they will fit in a console controller.
I declare Sony to be the winner of the controller design competition. The PS4 controller has tilt, touch/tap, dual analog sticks, and IIRC six analog buttons and two analog triggers. ObDisclaimer: Sony can go take a flying fuck in a rolling doughnut, and I won't be buying a PS4. I just think they have the best controller in this generation. I will be happy when they are available used.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by EvanED · 2013-09-27 13:33 · Score: 1

P.S. Isn't Steam Engine a better name than Steam Box?
Clever and I do like it, but I suspect they might want to be careful to avoid confusion with things like the Source engine (and the idea of a game engine in general). May not matter for everyone, but probably would matter for some. (Might cause more problems the other way around -- people hear about Valve's "Steam Engine", and later hear about their "Source Engine" and get confused as they're looking around for it. Or probably even worse: they look for "Valve's Engine" or something and come up with stuff about Source rather than the Steambox.)
Re:This actually looks really unusable by EvanED · 2013-09-27 13:46 · Score: 1

Buttons and Joysticks have an advantage touchpads and pushy circles lack: Nuanced tactile response. I can *feel* which direction I have the joystick jammed, with an accuracy of several degrees.
I can flip that around though: it sounds like the design of their trackpad has something huge that controllers lack, which is absolute positioning. Suppose you are looking in direction A and want to look in direction B. With a controller, you have to push the thumbstick in the direction of B and get the timing right in relation to amount of tilt. With the Steam Controller, it sounds like it's much more like a mouse: it's not based on timing at all*, and all you have to learn is the distance of thumb movement that corresponds to the distance on the screen.
* There is mouse acceleration on the computer if you don't turn it off, so that's not quite true, but it's way more true than on a traditional controller.
If my understanding and the above analysis is correct, IMO this is potentially huge. I don't really game on consoles because I more or less can't use controllers. There's a bit of a personal feedback loop there in that I don't play on consoles and so I don't get practice with them and so I suck at them and so I don't play on them, but this seems to be a pretty objective fact as well -- mouse and keyboard are basically universally more accurate for aiming in things like FPSs, and they make much more complex and fast RTS manipulations possible as well. I'm actually fairly excited to be able to try this, because I think it's probably the controller that I am most likely to be able to use.
Re:This actually looks really unusable by AdamHaun · 2013-09-27 16:40 · Score: 1

It looks like the main buttons are on the top and back. I see the usual two sets of triggers, but there are also two big buttons going down the middle. I guess you'd press them by squeezing your middle and ring fingers, which I don't think has been done before. It's a neat idea; trying to put four fingers on the triggers always makes me feel like I'm going to drop the controller.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by Zencyde · 2013-09-27 20:00 · Score: 1

I fail to see how everyone missed this, but the trackpad functions perfectly as a joystick. The raised portions give you an idea of where center is. I've wanted to see this for almost 2 years now, after seeing the Razer Hydra and imagining a version without the awkward joysticks. The concave shape of the trackpad makes it perfect as a joystick replacement, and there's the bonus of thinning the controller profile. Having recently started carrying a controller in my small pack, this Steam controller would be a blessing.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by Zencyde · 2013-09-27 20:01 · Score: 1

I apologize, but I do not think this is gimmicky. I fail to see how everyone missed this, but the trackpad functions perfectly as a joystick. The raised portions give you an idea of where center is. I've wanted to see this for almost 2 years now, after seeing the Razer Hydra and imagining a version without the awkward joysticks. The concave shape of the trackpad makes it perfect as a joystick replacement, and there's the bonus of thinning the controller profile. Having recently started carrying a controller in my small pack, this Steam controller would be a blessing.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by drinkypoo · 2013-09-28 00:07 · Score: 1

I fail to see how everyone missed this, but the trackpad functions perfectly as a joystick.
You know this how? Have you ever actually used a dual-touchpad device? I own one and carry it around on a daily basis. It's a shitty idea.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by Zencyde · 2013-09-28 02:21 · Score: 1

Oh yay, going to start trying to call people out on stuff, right?

I have tried dual touchpads before. Touchpad joysticks are, for the most part, crap. And that's for two reasons. First, capacity surfaces lack the accuracy necessary to make it useful. And secondly, there needs to be some sort of physical indicator for where "center" is. With these in place, touchpads are perfect replacements for joysticks that also allows each "trackpad" to double as that, a trackpad. So we have something with a lower profile, multiple ways of functioning, and a lower chance of product failure due to a lack of moving parts.

As well, the use of slightly concave trackpad surfaces allows the surfaces to double as speaker diaphragms, allowing for a cleverly simple solution to adding in haptic feedback.

How about this... have YOU ever tried this Steam controller? Then how do you have any idea whether or not it's going to be a functional device? Do you really expect a company like Valve to make a decision like this lightly? If you haven't tried the beta Steam controller yet, then your opinion is just as much bullshit as the next person's.

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Re:This actually looks really unusable by Luckyo · 2013-09-29 22:09 · Score: 1

But they're selling is as a keyboard/mouse replacement for living room. If they were just trying to sell it as a "better controller", I'd have no problems with it. But they're not.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by interkin3tic · 2013-09-27 06:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

As with regular ads, it's only annoying when it's things I don't want immediately as soon as I hear about them. Ads for a new car or a coke? Shove those up your ass. Ads for a controller I wanted as soon as I saw the headline? Not annoying to me.

Anyway, isn't the implication with "slashvertizing" that someone has posted a story to their own product? Pretty sure this was posted out of genuine interest, not financial interest.

Half life 3!!! by interkin3tic · 2013-09-27 06:29 · Score: 3, Funny

I'm not really sure how, but it's been confirmed with this announcement. You have to read it carefully. Specifically, picking certain letters out.

(starts crying)

Re:Half life 3!!! by twocows · 2013-09-27 06:38 · Score: 3, Funny

September 27, 2013. 9/27/13. 9 = 3*3, 27 = 3*3*3, 13 = 1, 3, and 2013 is divisible by 3. So of course, it's the perfect day to announce the NEW CONTROLLER!
Re:Half life 3!!! by Curupira · 2013-09-27 06:44 · Score: 1

What's wrong with you guys? No one has yet poster que obligatory http://gaben.tv/ ">HAIL SAINT GABEN link?
Re:Half life 3!!! by medv4380 · 2013-09-27 06:49 · Score: 1

Yes, and 4-11-70 at 13:13 was the perfect time to launch Apollo 13 to snub the nose of all those superstitious numerologists out there.
For those who don't see it 4+1+1+7+0 = 13
Re:Half life 3!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 07:44 · Score: 1

Maybe if we persistently craft every question along those lines, they'll throw us a bone. "Will the new controller work with HL3?" "Will HL3 be supported on SteamOS?" "Will Steambox hardware support HL3?"
[Sob]
Re:Half life 3!!! by ZombieBraintrust · 2013-09-27 08:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

Half Life 3 has missed the boat. It is now in Duke Nukem territory where no one will care when it is released.
Re:Half life 3!!! by bloodhawk · 2013-09-27 08:56 · Score: 1

People cared when Duke Nukem released, It was just that when it released it was apparent that it had come straight from the developers sphincter and was still steaming.
Re:Half life 3!!! by Andrio · 2013-09-27 09:08 · Score: 1

I wouldn't go that far. Valve has limitless amounts of money and access to the best possible talent.
In fact, let's have fun and imagine that the entirety of Steam's/Valve's success has been to provide the necessary money for the massive, multi-billion production values Half-Life 3 will demand!

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Re:Half life 3!!! by gman003 · 2013-09-27 13:17 · Score: 1

I had a post on another forum that conclusively "proved" that today's announcement would be the release of Starcraft: Ghost. Wish I could dig it up to show it here, because I spent way too long finding the right "evidence".

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by sheehaje · 2013-09-27 06:30 · Score: 1

And a collective sigh from millions of gamers expect the big announcement would be "Half-Life 3"

Although - you know it's coming... and you know it will be a SteamOS exclusive (at least initially)...

What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by sinij · 2013-09-27 06:31 · Score: 1, Interesting

What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? PC crowd does not want a console controller, why try to force it?

Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by Ksevio · 2013-09-27 06:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

They're not great for sitting on a couch and playing games. I've tried both and it's a lot more comfortable to be holding a controller rather than a long keyboard that needs to be placed on something.
Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by dickplaus · 2013-09-27 06:37 · Score: 1

Do wireless mice and keyboards have any lag compared to wired? I realize a controller will be wireless but I know in the past that some wireless keyboards had lag issues. Of course, I bought shitty cheap ones.
Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by guru42101 · 2013-09-27 06:38 · Score: 2

You can use one if you like. But for console (read sitting on the living room couch) a KB/M doesn't work that well. I guess they felt that these trackpad controllers are the happy medium to allow the most flexibility / compatibility. I'd personally probably use a lap desk + KB/M
Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by poobahtim · 2013-09-27 06:42 · Score: 2

I agree. I've been a PC-only gamer forever, but this whole Steambox/OS/controller thinger is intriguing. I'd happily build my own Steam box, put the OS on it, and buy a controller to play Portal in my living room.

I do wonder about their target audience with all of this. Will they be able to crack into the market already owned by one of the consoles? Or are they hoping that by luring PC users over to this new model they'll get them to buy more games/hardware. Maybe they're following Amazon's route of just trying to get as many people as possible hooked on the ecosystem...
Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by Enokcc · 2013-09-27 06:43 · Score: 2, Insightful

No problem! You can do that too!
What you have here is more choices.
Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by basecastula+ · 2013-09-27 06:46 · Score: 1

Not really. Use a phone book to put the mouse pad on. Works like a charm. Or one of those little tv stand things for people who eat in front of the tube. they work great as a platform for a mouse pad. I used that combination for playing alterIW.net on my big screen. Oh those were the days. So many fun servers.
Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 07:26 · Score: 5, Funny

wtf is a "phone book" ?
Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 07:59 · Score: 1

Apparently it's a type of mouse pad that works on a couch.
Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by jo_ham · 2013-09-27 10:29 · Score: 2

They're not forcing it. Question 2 of the FAQ specifically states that they are not forcing it on you and you can keep the kb and mouse forever more.
What they're offering is an alternative, optional, additional, supplemental, controller for those who would prefer to use something other than a keyboard and mouse to game from the couch. If you want to use a keyboard and mouse, plug those into the Steam Machine (or your PC running steam hooked up to your TV) and carry on as normal.
Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by Molochi · 2013-09-27 17:28 · Score: 1

I never noticed lag issues with (non BT) wireless KB/M setups. for me it was always range when voltage dropped with rechargeable batteries. With a fresh set of batteries that (range) was fine. but youd get missed keypresses within a couple of days. A USB KB/M setup gets flakey beyond 6ft w/o a powered hub in the middle. Meanwhile medieval PS/2 with a pair of long ass extension cables always worked fine.
But my modern BT keyboard and mouse work fine. They're rechargeable from across the room.

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Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by Molochi · 2013-09-27 17:40 · Score: 1

You need a better couch. OK I'm kinda kidding insofar as what you need, But I bought both my last and current couch with it's suitability as a mousepad in mind. They've both worked fine.

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Re:What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse? by petermgreen · 2013-09-27 23:44 · Score: 1

It's a publication that the phone company produces listing the names of people and buisnesses in your local area and their landline phone numbers.
Here in the UK buisnesses who want to stand out from the basic listings can buy space for larger adverts. When you get a phone line you can choose whether or not you want it to be included in the phone book. I presume similar systems operate in other areas.
At least round here phone books are a heck of a lot smaller than they used to be. Afaict this is due to a lot of people choosing not to be included and due to buisnesses not buying anywhere near as many adverts.

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Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by Nadaka · 2013-09-27 06:31 · Score: 1

Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller?

Its the best design i've come across. Great button configuration.

Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by Ksevio · 2013-09-27 06:36 · Score: 5, Informative

You can use those too likely. There are plenty of USB controllers in different configurations that can plug into a PC and work with Steam Big Picture at the moment.
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by Andrio · 2013-09-27 06:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

The idea is to try and create an experience that's close to the precision of a keyboard and mouse. No console controller offers this.
I'm actually really happy about this. This is the kind of innovation controllers have been needing for a very long time. I can pretty much guarantee that PS5 and, uh, Xbox Two? will employ controllers with this kind of tech.

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Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by Stormwatch · 2013-09-27 06:43 · Score: 1, Interesting

Are you kidding me? The Gamecube's controller is the best, and the Xbox's and the Dreamcast's controllers are fine too. Because they put the left analog stick in the right place, unlike the Playstation's godawful piece of shit of a controller.

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Circumcision is child abuse.
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by Valdrax · 2013-09-27 06:57 · Score: 1

Because they put the left analog stick in the right place, unlike the Playstation's godawful piece of shit of a controller.
If you do nothing but play first-person shooters. There are a lot of games out there for which an analog stick is unnecessary, and the fact that it sticks so far up off the body of the controller makes it awkward to grip as a primary control mechanism. I much prefer the more flush D-pad of a DualShock controller for the types of games I play.
This new design looks interesting because it'll have the fluid control of an analogue stick without the awkward thumb positioning. While I really don't like placing the X&Y buttons on the left side, I can appreciate the superior compromise between D-pad and stick they offer.

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Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by intermodal · 2013-09-27 06:59 · Score: 1

The Steambox/SteamOS will basically be Linux with Steam, and I haven't tested this since my laptop doesn't have bluetooth, but I believe Linux already supports the DualShock 3. and the Wiimote, I think. I don't know how good the support is, I don't really use gamepads of any kind on my laptop. But if you like the controllers, I am confident you could use them.

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Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by locopuyo · 2013-09-27 07:07 · Score: 2

You can already use those, but the 360 controller is much better. I am willing to try this new steam controller but I probably won't be convinced it is better until I try it myself.

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Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by spire3661 · 2013-09-27 07:34 · Score: 1

I have been using Sony's dual stick setup since they came out as an add-on during the PS1 cycle. I never understand why people dont like them. They have always worked fine for me. I think the 360 controller is better overall (triggers especially), but i never got hung up the stick layout like some people.

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Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by petermgreen · 2013-09-27 07:46 · Score: 1

I much prefer the more flush D-pad of a DualShock controller for the types of games I play.
Afaict in the days of the Playstation and early playstation 2 games (at least the ones I played) left stick and DPAD were usually equivalent since the game could not rely on the stick being present but i've noticed in more recent games i've played (ratchet gladiator and later in the ratchet and clank series, GTA4 and later in the GTA series) this is no longer the case. You have to use the left stick for movement and the DPAD is either unused or used as extra function buttons.
If i'm going to be forced to use the left stick for movement then i'd rather have it in the primary position.

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Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 08:09 · Score: 1

Does no one ever politely disagree with the Dual Shock-style stick placement? It's always "THIS SUX XBOX IS BETTAH" with a few swears thrown in for good measure.
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by jeffmflanagan · 2013-09-27 08:22 · Score: 3

My only problem with the Sony controllers is that they're sized for the hand of a Japanese adult, which makes them unsuitable for males of European descent. The Xbox controllers are a much better fit for the adult male hand outside of Asia.
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by Nadaka · 2013-09-27 08:37 · Score: 1

Oh, I use a mouse and keyboard for shooters, but of all the controllers i have used, the PS3 one has been the best.
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by Valdrax · 2013-09-27 08:40 · Score: 1

Afaict in the days of the Playstation and early playstation 2 games ... left stick and DPAD were usually equivalent since the game could not rely on the stick being present but i've noticed in more recent games i've played ... this is no longer the case. You have to use the left stick for movement and the DPAD is either unused or used as extra function buttons.
If i'm going to be forced to use the left stick for movement then i'd rather have it in the primary position.
That's lazy design by companies coding for the Xbox first. Yes, if you design a game for the Xbox controller, then the Xbox controller is going to be superior for it. I'd rather see cross-platform games designed for cross-platform use.

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Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by Stormwatch · 2013-09-27 09:01 · Score: 1

People hate that thing with a passion because it is THAT bad.

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Circumcision is child abuse.
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by broken_chaos · 2013-09-27 10:03 · Score: 2

I agree that this looks like it's intended to replace a keyboard/mouse, rather than a controller. The only major drawback I can see of the design (presuming it works as well as intended) is that it'll be unusable for games that either expect a 'normal' controller layout or that tend to use a significant number of keybindings (it looks like anything expecting more than eight keys and a mouse will likely be unusable).
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by jo_ham · 2013-09-27 10:31 · Score: 1

You already can.
PS3/Xbox 360 etc controllers already work with Steam.
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by drinkypoo · 2013-09-27 11:45 · Score: 1

Support for PS3 controllers is pretty lousy. It works, but it requires a wonky daemon. You didn't ask, but support for the PS3 BD Remote is even lousier. It can be made to work, however. Wiimote support is also a wonky daemon situation.

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Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by smaddox · 2013-09-27 11:51 · Score: 1

Finally, someone who isn't completely bashing this idea. I think these look awesome. I loved the CoD MW franchise on PS3, and several FPSs on prior consoles, but KB&M will always beat thumbsticks for FPSs. I could actually see these rivaling KBM. I agree with the guy who said these won't be as good as thumbsticks for racing games, but you can't win them all.
Valve really is doing some revolutionary things for gaming - far more so than the big 3.
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by EvanED · 2013-09-27 14:33 · Score: 1

If a game is designed so that your fingers regularly need to travel over more than the 15 or so buttons on a console controller, something is just wrong. All the context and modal menus present in console games aren't just to minimize the number of shortcut buttons needed, it's good design.
That's a really narrow view. Take something like an RTS. In Starcraft, you've got 10 unit group hotkeys and 3 or 4 (depending on SC1 or SC2) location hotkeys. High level play will use most or all of them. Add to that the 10 or so keys for actual commands and you're well over your key allotment.
Heck, while I'm not your typical player, I even have 15 different functions that I bound to keys in Portal.
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by aiadot · 2013-09-27 17:53 · Score: 1

As an European guy who lives in Japan I disagree with most of what you said. While my hands are bigger than all my colleagues, the PS2/3 controllers fit perfectly in my hands. The Xbox360 controller also fits greatly. I can, however, sympathize with the need of multiple sizes for handheld and wearable electronics. Just like we have a multitude of mouses, keyboards and headphones as different people have different needs, we should have variety of controllers and VR headsets. I know sony lets 3rd party manufactures like Razer, Logitech and MadCatz build their own controllers but to be honest most of them suck in my opinion.
Re:Ugh, cant they use a PS2/PS3 like controller? by Molochi · 2013-09-27 17:54 · Score: 1

I agree. Though I think the small controller size was more because they felt that the controllers were sized for western children (target audience and all) rather than Japanese adults. I thought the big xbox controller was fine for me but I thought it odd that they weren't targeting children's handsize.

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Re:how about a keyboard and a mouse... by twocows · 2013-09-27 06:32 · Score: 4, Informative

They already said you can still use KB+M. I mean, the hardware's going to be running GNU/Linux, after all.

Re:Can't view it at work... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 06:34 · Score: 5, Funny

I have no idea what I'm talking about but here is my commentary.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 06:34 · Score: 2, Funny

"Slashvertisement" is a wonderful word.

It's so much shorter than "I am an aggressively dishonest shitheel who refuses to make the simple distinction between advertising and reporting the the fact of a product announcement, and furthermore I am desperate to affect a demeanor of world-weary cynicism that I can never actually attain but have been conditioned to think is cool by the very people I want to think I'm rebelling against".

Re:Skeptical... by interkin3tic · 2013-09-27 06:37 · Score: 1

I think it's a little of both. The trackpad on my laptop sucks for FPS for that reason, but it's still much preferable to a thumbstick, which is physically hard to tilt halfway reliably.

It's a step up, but yeah, I'll be using the mouse and keyboard for most shooters.

It would be ideal for me is if the steamboxes wirelessly communicated with the controller, and had a USB port in the side so I could plug my mouse into the controller and use it on my couch. That's several ifs though. And judging by the fact that none of the consoles offer mouse attachments, perhaps I'm the only one who would want to use a mouse from the couch to game.

Re:DRM DRM DRM by uCallHimDrJ0NES · 2013-09-27 06:41 · Score: 1, Troll

I am tired of seeing this obvious truth treated as trolling. It's not trolling. Mod up, please.

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Looking at the thing. by basecastula+ · 2013-09-27 06:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

What exactly are they smoking? Do they think that people are going to LIKE trackpads instead of something more ...useful? Like a button or a stick.

Re:Looking at the thing. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 08:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

Yeah, obviously they do. It looks like they've taken a lot of care in getting rid of problems that, up till now, have plagued trackpads.
Why don't you at least give it a try before bellowing out your uninformed opinion about how much you dislike it?
Re:Looking at the thing. by citizenr · 2013-09-27 09:40 · Score: 1

they are smoking SCIENCE
stick is relative - you move a stick and game autoaims you to the nearest target
mouse/trackpad is absolute, you point directly at a pixel you want to shoot

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I like what Steam is doing here by Bardez · 2013-09-27 06:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

Intellectually, this fits everything I want about a gaming system/console except for DRM:

Moving games to Linux
Making a gaming Linux distro of their own, not a requirement
Making their own hardware, but not required
Making their own controller, not required

I just hope it doesn't flop.

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Perception is the thin dividing line between reality and fiction.

Re:I like what Steam is doing here by jo_ham · 2013-09-27 10:35 · Score: 1

Not only that, but they are a making a controller that is open in hardware spec, so if someone comes up with a better/different setup it will be trivial to make one that won't require "official blessing" from Valve to work.

Re:FA contraducts itself by evilRhino · 2013-09-27 06:42 · Score: 1

It seems obvious that the picture is a prototype built before the specs on the touch screen were finalized. Everything else on the thing is the same.

Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by TechyImmigrant · 2013-09-27 06:43 · Score: 1

Starcraft 2 would be pretty unplayable without a keyboard and mouse.

Maybe that's why it isn't on Steam.

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Re:FA contraducts itself by cazzazullu · 2013-09-27 06:44 · Score: 1

Please read the entire article. They state explicitly that the 300 beta versions that are gonna be sent out in a month will have 4 buttons instead of a touchscreen. The one that ships in 2014 will have a screen instead. The display on the touchscreen will be overlayed on the TV as well, so you don't have to look at the screen if you don't want to. There is no reason to assume the screen won't be in color, that technology is more than mature.

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Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by IanCal · 2013-09-27 06:46 · Score: 2

He's replying to the accusation that it's a slashvertisement, and the implication that it's a bad thing.

don't speak it by frovingslosh · 2013-09-27 06:47 · Score: 1, Troll

Even though you hid behind posting as an AC and started at zero you will likely be modded down. Too many fanboys here who pay Steam don't like their stupidity pointed out. And no, I'll never buy a Steam DRMed piece of software either. Have used it for some free demos, and had to install it to update a previously purchased DRM free copy of the original Halflife (upgrade now required for on-line play). But I completely agree that Supporting Steam is supporting DRM, and a very unwise thing for a supposedly intelligent on-line community to do.

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Re:don't speak it by tb()ne · 2013-09-27 07:16 · Score: 3, Informative

It isn't stupidity if they understood the terms of the purchase and preferred it to other options. Those "supposedly intelligent" fanboys probably spent less for Halflife than you did and they can play it on Windows, OS X, or linux.
Re:don't speak it by ArcadeMan · 2013-09-27 08:27 · Score: 1, Insightful

There's DRM on Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo consoles. It hasn't stopped people from playing games for the last few consoles generations.

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Re:don't speak it by tepples · 2013-09-27 09:25 · Score: 2

The DRM on the Nintendo DS has stopped people from playing Bob's Game because at the time, Nintendo didn't allow developers to operate out of a home office.

Re:DRM DRM DRM by i+kan+reed · 2013-09-27 06:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

No, I refuse to mod up. It's not trolling, but it lacks a meaningful insight. Steam approaches the DRM question from a different direction by detaching game ownership from physical devices entirely.

When you buy a disk, and have an install limit, or an offline game, with an always online requirement, it turns the thing you think you have into something less valuable, and uses a legal fiction to justify it. Steam gives you a person license that you can use as part of an account independent of the machine on which its installed, with some flexibility regarding internet access and physical media. It's a license that actually acts like a license, you can use it freely, yourself. It treats the underlying legal fiction as actually representative of usage, rather than an excuse to limit you.

Re:I can only say one thing... by AvitarX · 2013-09-27 06:48 · Score: 5, Insightful

It has tons of buttons that don't require moving the hands at all.

I think you're completely wrong.

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Innovation, modability by damaki · 2013-09-27 06:49 · Score: 1

It's all about mods and accessories. Imagine the think with multi touch, 4 point on each touchpad. Then you could stick a direction cross over it, or regular buttons, or a plain stick, or whatever you want.
Every single gamepad these years is just plain and unimaginative or has barely usable gimmicks. Even the wiimotes are quite disappointing (laggish, unprecise). Analog buttons (not triggers these are fine) were the worst idea ever. Sixaxis motion detection is totally useless (no I wont tilt it left to turn left, I'd rather keep my wrist in good state). Wii U screen is basically a DS/3D with only one screen?
This, gentlemen, is innovation.

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Stupidity is the root of all evil.

Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by Georules · 2013-09-27 06:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

No, sc2 is not on steam because blizzard doesn't need steam as a storefront.

Tradtional joypad games? by Holammer · 2013-09-27 06:54 · Score: 2

How do I play Street Fighter or any traditional joypad game on that thing? I don't want to dismiss it out of hand, but I have serious doubts.
It might actually be a better joypad for console fps gaming, but unless I see good TF2 YTbers like shibby2142 praising the pad and pulling off rocket jumps while shovelling people with ease... I'll stick to kb+m.

Re:Tradtional joypad games? by Valdrax · 2013-09-27 07:21 · Score: 1

How do I play Street Fighter or any traditional joypad game on that thing? I don't want to dismiss it out of hand, but I have serious doubts.
I'm guessing a lot like on the SNES. The right trackpad should be able to detect the position of the finger when clicked, making it capable of simulating the traditional diamond pattern, and the shoulder buttons fulfill their usual role.

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Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by Issarlk · 2013-09-27 06:55 · Score: 1

Hi. How's the weather in Redmond?

Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by matt328 · 2013-09-27 06:56 · Score: 2

Touch screen/pad, maybe I can see being kinda cool for use on menu screens, but when you're in action, you need the precision of physical sticks and buttons. When things get intense, I always find myself pressing buttons harder and trying to tilt sticks further than they can move, and that style of play hasn't ever worked well with any kind of touch input.

Touch pads for joysticks just feels too much like the on screen joysticks people pretend are legitimate in mobile games. The issue on touch devices is as I said before, there's always the 'shit shit shit go further/faster/turn sharper' moment when you want to push the virtual joystick further but there is no boundary so your thumb/finger slides all the way off of it and you stop moving altogether. These touch pads do have physical boundaries it seems, but I wonder if they are so precise, what happens when you want to simulate tilting a stick all the way in a certain direction, but where you initially contact the touch pad isn't exactly center, leaving you with that offset as lost range.

I'm also skeptical of the buttons being split on either side of that screen or whatever it is. If you are moving or looking or whatever with your left thumb, the two buttons right next to that touch pad are essentially useless. I don't know it is only 2 buttons, it says there are 16 on the thing so maybe that isn't so big a deal.

I'm with you though on the XBox 360 controller. 2 full joysticks, analog shoulder triggers, even a D-Pad for when you don't want to trust the joystick for explicit up, down, left, or right inputs. It has all the bases covered for a wide variety of games without being overcomplicated.

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Re:I can only say one thing... by Qzukk · 2013-09-27 06:56 · Score: 1

It has tons of buttons that don't require moving the hands at all.

Assuming you only want to press one of them at a time.

That was the REAL achievement of the diamond configuration: the thumb could easily cover two buttons for when you needed to run AND jump.

At least these days you can usually remap them so you can use A and the underside button... assuming your hand wraps around the controller well enough to reach it.

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Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by TechyImmigrant · 2013-09-27 06:57 · Score: 4, Funny

Stop being factual. I was trying to make a point.

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Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 06:59 · Score: 1

I live alone with a 60" LED TV in the living room... it is pretty fun to play games on it.

Not sure how this is going to work... by SeaFox · 2013-09-27 07:01 · Score: 2, Insightful

Most of the games I've played by controller expect that you'll be using an XBox360 controller, so the game is set up expecting you to have the same types of controls and buttons in the same locations for two-handed operations. Drastically changing what and where everything is will only result in a controller that is unusable for most of the games it was created for.

Re:Not sure how this is going to work... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 07:22 · Score: 1

This controller is meant not to replace traditional controllers but the mouse & keyboard.
Think of the games for PC that expect you to be using a mouse and keyboard that you can't comfortably take to the living room.
That's what this controller is for.
Re:Not sure how this is going to work... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 07:22 · Score: 1

If the PC game supports an X360 controller, then use an X360 controller.
This is for the 80% of PC games that don't support the X360 controller.
Re:Not sure how this is going to work... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 08:12 · Score: 2, Funny

I'm sure Steam didn't think about how to make this work with Steam games while developing this. It looks like it's back to the drawing board for them.
Re:Not sure how this is going to work... by jo_ham · 2013-09-27 10:38 · Score: 2

I'm sure Valve, who have been working on this for a year, haven't ever thought of that. Good catch.
Re:Not sure how this is going to work... by SeaFox · 2013-09-27 12:55 · Score: 1

I bought an XBox360 controller, too. But I opted for a wired one (no battery hassles, lower latency, cheaper). Nine feet is long enough for cord length for me.
I just thought the whole idea of this is Steam wants to go at it with their own hardware, so they want their own controller, too. But they're introducing something that's not really going to work as "their controller" because it's too drastic a departure in design.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by tompaulco · 2013-09-27 07:01 · Score: 1

Ads for a controller I wanted as soon as I saw the headline? Not annoying to me.

Still annoying to me. What is even more annoying is trying to figure out if I want I badly enough to ignore the fact that they advertised it at me.

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If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.

Drone controller by jfisherwa · 2013-09-27 07:04 · Score: 2

Looks like the perfect controller for a backpack scouting drone.

Reminds me of the Intellivision controller by rla3rd · 2013-09-27 07:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

Brings back distant memories of the Intellivision controller. I hope its an improvement over that godawful thing.

Re:Reminds me of the Intellivision controller by DNS-and-BIND · 2013-09-27 09:09 · Score: 1

Did people who moan about Intellivision online actually play Intellivision? I get the idea it's something they read somewhere and then repeat endlessly. The controllers worked well with most of Intellivision's game library. The alternative was a joystick with a single button, which was fine for arcade games but sucked for anything with weight.

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Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Re:Reminds me of the Intellivision controller by rla3rd · 2013-09-27 13:48 · Score: 1

My neighbor had one, I played it while over his house regularly, hated the controller. Only thing worse was the NES controller. Games were still fun though.
Re:Reminds me of the Intellivision controller by drsquare · 2013-09-27 20:26 · Score: 1

Yeah let's hope technology has improved in over three decades.

Re:What's the point? by Gavagai80 · 2013-09-27 07:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

And what about people like me who don't own a TV and don't buy computer games? They need to scratch this whole design and come up with something that isn't a game console, there no sense in anyone making products that neither of us has a use for. Maybe make a domestic robot?

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Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-27 07:10 · Score: 5, Insightful

Don't be ridiculous. Slashdot has covered new and interesting product developments since long before you created a SlashID. This falls well into the "News for Nerds" category. I will probably never buy this as I don't even game, yet I read it anyway. Why? Because it is interesting new technology. Period.

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Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

Re:Skeptical... by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-27 07:16 · Score: 1

"But then again, some folks can use trackballs just as good as a mouse"

Actually, a trackball works much better than a mouse as far as I am concerned. I hate using a mouse and can't understand how anyone would do so on purpose when trackballs are readily available.

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Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

Re:how about a keyboard and a mouse... by Molt · 2013-09-27 07:19 · Score: 3, Insightful

SteamOS is Linux based but I doubt it's going to be anything even Stallman would call GNU/Linux.

Everything I've seen makes this sound like it's more aimed at being a 'Console which runs PC games' than a normal computer. I'd expect it to load into a 'Big Picture' mode Steam client, and allow the user to launch their games and specially-modified applications from that which could well run as overlays like the existing Steam browser. Whether this machine even needs a command line is debatable, it shouldn't need GCC (I'd expect a fully binary-based OS) or a full-featured window and compositing desktop like Gnome.

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404 Not Found: No such file or resource as '.sig'

Not a Me Too product by ZombieBraintrust · 2013-09-27 07:26 · Score: 1

Sony already makes a PS3 controller. No point in them joining the market if they are going to do things exactly like Sony and Microsoft.

Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by Molt · 2013-09-27 07:27 · Score: 1

There are enough other games on Steam which do need a keyboard and mouse though, everything from other RTS games such as the C&C and RA series, to the more complex FPS games. Valve may be wanting developers to do things for their Big Screen/Controller setups but there are still plenty of games there where controllers are unusable.

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Re:What's the point? by Molt · 2013-09-27 07:29 · Score: 1

If you want to game on a monitor you'll have a computer attached to it and so the existing Steam client will work fine for that, and in any case given the ease of DVI/HDMI conversion the practical difference between a television and a monitor is getting very slim.

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404 Not Found: No such file or resource as '.sig'

Re:Tradtional arcade fight stick games? by ZombieBraintrust · 2013-09-27 07:31 · Score: 1

You don't want to play Street Fighter on a Xbox controller either. Those quarter circle moves are not really designed for a d pad or analog sticks.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by Lithdren · 2013-09-27 07:32 · Score: 1

what are you frothing at the mouth about? Nobody said anything about bringing ads into your house via the controller in question. Try reading what people post before you go crazy next time. And refit that tinfoil while you're at it.

you'll stay centered by dlenmn · 2013-09-27 07:32 · Score: 1

Look at the pictures in TFA; these aren't phone touchpads. You shouldn't be losing your center with these.

Is Steam a viable alternative to a console? by timeOday · 2013-09-27 07:32 · Score: 3, Interesting

I currently have a Linux PC and a XBox 360 connected to my TV. Is Steam more of a console replacement, or a distribution method for PC-style games? (I.e. keyboard/mouse input and few co-op games). Does installing games on Linux under Steam actually work, or is it a nightmare of package dependencies that require an up-to-date install of a specific distro? Is there a good selection of split-screen games that are gamepad-friendly? I am getting a little tired of the XBox 360 low resolution, and it is feeling more and more limited without paying a subscription fee, which I won't do.

Re:Is Steam a viable alternative to a console? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 08:29 · Score: 2, Informative

For most of its life steam has been a distribution method for PC games. All of the announcements steam has made this week have been about testing new steam products that are attempting to make steam a console replacement. Steam big picture is very easy to use on a big screen TV with a controller. It is still a beta product and the experience is not nearly as seamless as the console experience.
Installing and running games with steam on linux is a breeze. You don't need to fight with anything. If a steam game supports linux it usually just works. There aren't a ton of games on steam that support linux, but the number is growing rapidly.
I don't know about split screen, but most games have decent gamepad support.
Re:Is Steam a viable alternative to a console? by lgw · 2013-09-27 11:07 · Score: 1

The way I see it: most PC games now days are console ports, and many play better with console controllers attached to the PC. I think SteamBox will be great for those - a better experience than a traditional console for folks like me who are done with physical media. But oddly splitscreen games don't seem to make it over much - perhaps this will help fix that?

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Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Re:Is Steam a viable alternative to a console? by gman003 · 2013-09-27 13:28 · Score: 1

Steam is a distribution method for PC games. I haven't tried the Linux version (only the Win/Mac builds), but it's pretty much bulletproof in those. Click "download". First time you try to play, it will run all the install scripts. It also automatically handles patches, to the point that I actually forgot manually downloading patches was a thing. It downloads in the background (unless told not to), but waits until you launch the game to run any patch install scripts.
They have a list of games with good gamepad support, but I don't know of any with splitscreen (besides L4D, which had unofficial splitscreen via some complex console hacks). The Steam software itself works fine with a controller, using their console-like "Big Picture Mode" (with the option for Steam to start directly into that).
SteamOS is a new Linux distro they're making with the intent of making it a drop-in OS for console-like gaming (they've been working with Nvidia/AMD on improving drivers as well, to the point that they have commit access to Nvidia's proprietary drivers). And they just announced that they'll be making Steam Machines, prebuilt systems using SteamOS. These are more likely to emphasize the gamepad and particularly splitscreen support.

I wonder what Jeri Ellsworth thinks... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 07:33 · Score: 1

I wonder what Jeri Ellsworth thinks of this controller?

Argh... need sleep by mark-t · 2013-09-27 07:36 · Score: 1

For some reason, I ead that as "Valve announces Brain Controller".

Not sure how the heck my brain confused "Steam" with "Brain", obviously my own brain needs more sleep.

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'

Re:What's the point? by spire3661 · 2013-09-27 07:37 · Score: 1

You dont 'take over' the TV. You have your PC as you always have and then a cheap Steam OS thin-client for your living room for when you want to play games out there.

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Good-bye

Re:All touch devices are unusable by spire3661 · 2013-09-27 07:38 · Score: 1

THe biggest problem with phone touchscreens is there is absolutely no feedback. These pads have advanced haptic feedback systems. Its not the same thing.

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Good-bye

Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by locopuyo · 2013-09-27 07:42 · Score: 1

There is a guy that plays StarCraft 2 with an xbox 360 controller and he occasionally streams it on twitch tv. I think he is diamond league so he makes it work pretty well. Obviously it still isn't as good as keyboard and mouse.

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The Official Site of 1337 Pwnage

Re:All touch devices are unusable by loufoque · 2013-09-27 07:45 · Score: 1

The haptic feedback option on my phone must be a fake then.

Re:DRM DRM DRM by interkin3tic · 2013-09-27 07:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

We don't like the DRM, we just realize that DRM is not a black and white issue that trumps all else in the equation. We also realize that without any DRM whatsoever, PC gaming would be limited to what you see on GOG. GOG is good an all, old games are fun, indie games are good and sometimes better than anything else, and the small handful of big titles that are released DRM free are really to be applauded... but often I want big new games that some company has invested a lot of money in. A lot of them aren't entirely comfortable with it being completely DRM free. If you can't understand their perspective, you've clearly never made a game (neither have I) and you're closed minded.

Re:DRM DRM DRM by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 07:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

The big problem with Steam is the restriction on simultaneously using two games in one library. My wife likes to play too, and those games, under California law, are as much hers as they are mine, no matter what the Terms-of-Use say.

So I need to make a new account for every game I buy, and it's a major pain in the ass to manage.

Look closer, those buttons aren't what you think! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 07:53 · Score: 1

Those buttons around the in the middle touch screen, while having the traditional letters of a game pad are likely intended to be used as a set of select/start style ancillary buttons. Take a look at the button layout for Portal 2 and look what they're using those buttons for.

http://cdn3.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livingroom/rljKewyz3M/controller_bindings.jpg?v=2
It's all communication/gesture actions. It's something you would press when standing still. Those are not intended to be action buttons!

If you really want to create a traditional button setup you could easily use the right track pad to simulate a set of face buttons. If your finger is in a given quadrant when you press it it would source your finger position and then act as an XYAB button input. Simple

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by mythosaz · 2013-09-27 07:53 · Score: 4, Funny

Leela: Didn't you have ads in the 21st century?"

Fry: Well sure, but not in our dreams. Only on TV and radio, and in magazines, and movies, and at ball games... and on buses and milk cartons and t-shirts, and bananas and written on the sky. But not in dreams, no siree.

Apparently Valve is tired of ARG's by MetricT · 2013-09-27 07:54 · Score: 2, Funny

and has moved on to AAAAAARRRGHHS! That's the only way I can explain this week's perpetual 3-trollage.

Re:I can only say one thing... by Kahlandad · 2013-09-27 07:54 · Score: 2

When people first saw the diamond on the NES control pad, they said "The controller design is awful. Why the fuck would you get rid of the traditional joystick?"

I personally have mixed feelings about the controller, but I'm at least willing to wait to give it a try before passing judgement on it.

Funny FAQ by Azure+Flash · 2013-09-27 08:03 · Score: 5, Funny

"I’m a happy Steam customer happily using my happy mouse and keyboard. I don’t want a controller?" "You can’t make a sentence into a question by just putting a question-mark at the end. But we’re happy you’re happy [...]" Oh Valve. I love companies who can still afford to have a sense of humour about things.

Re:DRM DRM DRM by i+kan+reed · 2013-09-27 08:04 · Score: 1

Yeah, and Valve could be better regarding that specific scenario. It actually is a weakness they face specifically compared to their competition with consoles. The entire game list acts like what is licensed, not the individual game. In Europe, they're putting (or have put?) a game lending/reselling function that sort of works.

Couch multiplayer by tepples · 2013-09-27 08:09 · Score: 3, Informative

What wrong with a wireless keyboard and mouse?

KB+M is fine for single player. The problem comes when you have players 2, 3, and 4 visiting your home, and the APIs for accessing more than one mouse or more than one keyboard are far more obscure than the APIs for accessing more than one gamepad.

Re:What's the point? by ZombieBraintrust · 2013-09-27 08:12 · Score: 2

So people can use those monitors. Your monopolizing them with your pc use.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by wwfarch · 2013-09-27 08:16 · Score: 1

I was hoping for Half Life 3 but since it was launched under a "living room" moniker I was positive that it wasn't going to be. I also highly doubt they'll make Half-Life 3 SteamOS exclusive. Valve doesn't make any extra money off of SteamOS as opposed to someone having Steam on Windows. Also, it's just not Valve's style.

Re:Can't view it at work... by Reapy · 2013-09-27 08:16 · Score: 2

He has upper management written all over him.

Re:I can only say one thing... by Kahlandad · 2013-09-27 08:21 · Score: 1

Yeah, because communication wasn't invented until the internet. We just sat around with tape on our mouths with no means to express our opinions.

There was a console before the SNES called the NES. People didn't immediately jump on it because 1) it was released just after the massive video game crash of '83 and 2) nobody had heard of Mario before ("You mean that dude from Donkey Kong had a name?") 3) it was expensive and came with a stupid robot and 4) it had a weird control pad instead of a joystick.

Look it up sometime when you aren't too busy spouting off your ignorance to everyone.

TV gaming is for couch multiplayer by tepples · 2013-09-27 08:23 · Score: 1

Why would I want to take over the TV so that nobody else in the house can use it to watch TV?

Because that way they can play a video game with you without necessarily having to buy their own gaming PCs and their own copies of the game.

Re:TV gaming is for couch multiplayer by jaymz666 · 2013-09-27 10:43 · Score: 1

did you even read the news release about sharing the steam library last week? Only one person can play the library at a time
Re:TV gaming is for couch multiplayer by tepples · 2013-09-27 11:45 · Score: 1

Only one person can be player 1 at a time. Couch multiplayer means up to four players are using one PC, one TV, and one account. Say you're playing Street Fighter IV with two joysticks plugged into one computer. Why should you need to buy two copies of the game for a 2-player match that takes place on one computer? Likewise with the split screen mode in Left 4 Dead.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by Isca · 2013-09-27 08:23 · Score: 1

they may make it Steam exclusive though. Steam in any way shape or form - with release on PS4 and xboxnone at a later date.

Re:DRM DRM DRM by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 08:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

And GOG does all that without DRM.

Re:I can only say one thing... by Reapy · 2013-09-27 08:27 · Score: 1

I never got used to using my thumb for simultaneous presses. On the NES i'd flip my right hand over and use my index and middle finger to play, it always felt much more precise. I appreciate them trying some buttons on the underside of it, but it does leave you with 1 less button on the right than an analog.

Though the fact that the 5th button is the analog pad, it can be much more than a one press. First is the obvious turn it into 4 buttons depending on the quadrant pressed, which would work for action games perhaps.

But even more you could do gesture then press moves to make it even more functional. There is a lot of potential for new here. It might suck, it might not, but I have a feeling we'll see some new ways to control things if the controller takes off.

Re:Skeptical... by ArcadeMan · 2013-09-27 08:29 · Score: 1

Maybe more gamers would use them if they were called trackboobs.

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Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by wwfarch · 2013-09-27 08:38 · Score: 1

That's definitely possible and I'd even say likely. Valve does have a preference for PC and anything from them since HL2 on PC has required Steam if my memory serves correctly.

I agree. Completely Unacceptable. by xtrafe · 2013-09-27 08:41 · Score: 1

I really don't understand why it's so hard for console manufacturers to get this right.

6 buttons on the right. 2 rows / 3 columns. Labeled as follows:

Jab Strong Fierce
Short Medium Roundhouse

FFS Steam.

Re:I can only say one thing... by AvitarX · 2013-09-27 08:46 · Score: 1

I'd assume both run and jump are handled by the analog pads for most games.

I wouldn't want to use it for a fighting game, but overall it seems pretty good to me. Up to 4 simultaneous presses (2 backside, 2 triggers), not counting the 2 pads that click.
using the right pad as "buttons" like the wii-mote does often, you can use diagonals to simulate 2 presses in the feasible combos of the SNES.

I'm actually pretty excited to see how well it works, but on the face of it it's a great design IMO. I am most concerned about tight grip triggering the back buttons.

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Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 08:48 · Score: 1

INSIGHTFUL is the new FUNNY in this season!

Re:Tradtional arcade fight stick games? by Holammer · 2013-09-27 08:55 · Score: 1

I don't know about the xbox controller, as I use a PS3 pad which works nicely. Not as good as a proper arcade joystick, but passable. Heck, SF2 was really playable on the SNES pad once you broke it in.

Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by TechyImmigrant · 2013-09-27 08:57 · Score: 1

I lost against the medium AI last night. So incompetence trumps controller.

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I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.

Re:What's the point? by Anubis+IV · 2013-09-27 08:59 · Score: 1

You are not the only person in the world, and the others of us living in it are not all like you. For some of us, it makes perfect sense.

For instance, my entertainment center (TV, AVR, and surround sound speakers that were all carefully researched, and I'm looking to add DIY Ambilight stuff to increase the immersion) is a good deal more impressive than my PC setup, so for quite a few (though not all) different types of games, the bigger screen and more immersive audio can really improve the experience. Not to mention that my TV currently doesn't see much use outside of console gaming anyway, but if someone else is using the TV, well, Steam is nice in that it has this Steam Cloud thing that stores your save files in the cloud, allowing you to play from whatever device you're on, so I can just retreat back to the PC setup if a significant other wants to watch some TV or play one of their games.

But for someone like you, you'll be happy to know that Valve has already confirmed that they aren't forcing any of this stuff on you. So, you don't have to use the Steam Machines or controller, nor are they dropping keyboard and mice support, nor are they requiring you to use Big Picture mode. But if you decide that you want to give Steam OS a try on your PC, you can do that. And if you want to give Big Picture on your PC a try, you can. And if you want to try the controller on your PC, you can. They're there for you if you want to give them a shot. If you don't, that's fine too.

Basically, they're adding more options. You may not care about them, but some of us are really excited about them, since it means we have more ways to enjoy the things we already own.

Re: DRM DRM DRM by techprophet · 2013-09-27 09:04 · Score: 1

Even better, it turns the inherent weakness of the license model (that it isn't tied to a physical object such as a disk or floppy) and turns it into a strength by giving you great convenience and protection from wear and tear.

Killer Instinct Gold by tepples · 2013-09-27 09:06 · Score: 1

You could always plug in a Nintendo 64 controller through an adapter. It has exactly the layout you ask for.

Platformer by tepples · 2013-09-27 09:08 · Score: 1

So how would a cross-platform side-scrolling platformer, something like Mario or Mega Man or Castlevania, be adapted to a controller like this? The player needs move left, move right, crouch, climb, jump, and fire commands. Those are already incredibly clunky on the multitouch screen of a phone or tablet.

Re:Platformer by Valdrax · 2013-09-30 06:02 · Score: 1

I would guess that the right touchpad can emulate four buttons in the same way the left touchpad emulates a D-pad.

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If you think about it... by Lendrick · 2013-09-27 09:18 · Score: 1

A 'valve' is a 'steam controller'.

It's still SHIT by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 09:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

It still limits use for legitimate users and creates an unnecessary headache for them. Accepting STEAM is like saying "oh well it's excrement in my soup, but at least it's only bird excrement, not dog excrement". You're still going to get sick you fuckwit!

Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by citizenr · 2013-09-27 09:28 · Score: 1

precision of physical sticks

this is an oxymoron

When things get intense, I always find myself pressing buttons harder and trying to tilt sticks further than they can move

you might have a neurological disease, what you describe is some sort of alpha motor neuron disorder. Btw monkeys also have trouble with fine motor control.

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Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-27 09:32 · Score: 1

"Second... no, it isn't interesting new technology. It's technology that's been around for the past two decades at least, wrapped up in a slightly different package. "

So it is like a book or software! "The Girl Who Played With Fire" isn't interesting! It's just words! Brtfs isn't interesting; it's just the same old C statements and some assembly!

I accept your apology.

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Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

Steam Family Sharing by captjc · 2013-09-27 09:43 · Score: 1

I guess this is your lucky day! Though, I guess it won't work with the new account per game situation you created...

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Re:Steam Family Sharing by lachlan76 · 2013-09-27 15:51 · Score: 1

It doesn't work, because you can only share the library in its entirety. It therefore makes no difference if you would otherwise share passwords.
Re:Steam Family Sharing by gweilo8888 · 2013-09-27 21:06 · Score: 1

And doesn't remotely solve his problem, either. From the FAQ: "a shared library may only be accessed by one user at a time" and "Shared games will be unavailable on even an authorized device when the account holder’s library is currently in use on another computer" In other words, if he's playing a game, his wife still can't use any other game in his library. That's exactly the same situation he was bemoaning.
Re:Steam Family Sharing by Techman83 · 2013-10-01 17:03 · Score: 1

I'd suggest that's a technical limitation that will be resolved eventually. It's not even in open beta yet!

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# cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i cat
Damn, my RAM is full of cats. MEOW!!

Dual pointer input on a desktop by gringer · 2013-09-27 09:45 · Score: 1

I'd be interested in using this as an input device on a desktop computer. If you configure the circular pads to act like the rubber nipples, with something like a logarithmic transform to increase precision for centre movement and increase travel speed for the edges, then I can picture this being more useful than a mouse. Couple that with multi-pointer manipulation, and you get your usual pinch / zoom / rotate movements that are becoming more common as a "everyone knows how to do it" input method.

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Ask me about repetitive DNA

Re:DRM DRM DRM by Darinbob · 2013-09-27 09:47 · Score: 1

Which would be fine, if only the sold the games for less than the amount of a comparable game that used physical media. Instead the brand new Steam games are every much as expensive as the competition.

It would also be nice of the Steam DRM was an option. Ie, use Steam when you download the game digitally, but don't use Steam if you purchased a game disk instead or want an alternative copy protection scheme.

Maybe it's because I'm a console gamer... by gameboyhippo · 2013-09-27 09:58 · Score: 1

But I just want buttons. I want to be able to rest my thumb on something and then press down when I need to. I hope I'm wrong, but this thing just looks uncomfortable.

Re:Maybe it's because I'm a console gamer... by jo_ham · 2013-09-27 10:41 · Score: 1

Stick with the 360 controller then, since it also works with Steam already.
Or wait for the version that replaces one of the D pads with buttons, since the hardware is fully open (and also still developing, hence the beta).
One of the great things about the direction Valve seems to want to go with this is "set it up how you want, hack it if you need, use whatever you like" rather than trying to force anything specific. They simply had to design a controller since the Steam Machine is primarily aimed at being a console replacement, and relying on third party controllers simply wouldn't be feasible. That doesn't mean that you can't use one if you want though.

No gyro? by markdavis · 2013-09-27 10:25 · Score: 1

All this advanced stuff and it lacks gyroscopes so there is no motion control option? I would think that is a major oversight...

Re:how about a keyboard and a mouse... by jo_ham · 2013-09-27 10:26 · Score: 2

That really depends how far they take the "openness" - they seem to be hammering that message, so I'm going to assume it's at the very least going to be really easy to muck about with for those who want to.

This is Valve's broadside attack on Windows 8, and they seem to have gone all out for it.

If they can pull it off, it's going to be for console gaming what Android is to smartphones.

Re:FA contraducts itself by jo_ham · 2013-09-27 10:32 · Score: 1

"FA" wasn't "FR" by you it seems.

The beta units have 4 buttons where the touchscreen is, and are wired with a USB cable.

This information is clearly and obviously stated in the article text. It in no way contradicts itself.

Re:What's the point? by jo_ham · 2013-09-27 10:36 · Score: 2

My car has 5 seats and a big trunk, why would I want a pick up truck with only 2 seats and nowhere for my other passengers?

Why would I want to drive around in one of those?

Turbo Touch 360 by Deathlizard · 2013-09-27 10:40 · Score: 1

It's just a newer more advanced Turbo Touch 360.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Touch_360

Probably sucks like one too.

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In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by Molochi · 2013-09-27 10:57 · Score: 1

Nah, they said it would not be HL3. We all figured it would be the controller they kept referring to. A living room game system needs a livingroom game controller.

I suspect strongly that HL3 will require a MS Windows based OS at launch and quite surprised and pleased if it even runs locally on any version of a steambox or a computer running SteamOS..Valve has stated that the Steambox will stream more hardware intensive games from your beefier Windows system.

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Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by hairyfeet · 2013-09-27 11:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'd say its annoying because there are plenty of other worthy subjects in the firehose on any given day and instead of one of those we get a commercial.

But when it comes to SteamOS and the SteamBox there is a rotting elephant that nobody seems to be willing to talk about...how in the world are they gonna pull off functional DRM in a FOSS OS without running afoul of the GPL? Are they gonna do like Google did and sink a billion into making their own GPL V2 only fork so they can use the "TiVo Trick" of code signing the DRM? Are they gonna demand boards that have TPM so they can use it against the user? How are they gonna pull it off?

I have read some say they are gonna just do it "like they do Steam on Windows" but I don't think that will work with a FOSS OS as you can always get the underlying subsystems to "lie" to the program by simply making your own recompile, something not possible with either OSX or Windows. They also can't use the kernel hooks that past DRM systems like SecuROM and StarForce used for the same reason, one could recompile the kernel to bypass it. Not to mention there are plenty of Linux hackers that hate DRM on general principle and will probably do everything they can to undermine any program that uses DRM. We have also seen this attitude from several of the devs of Linux who I wouldn't be surprised if their "updates" mainly break SteamOS. As one told me when I pointed out having updates break drivers was stupid "I hope we break every non GPL driver constantly!" because he truly believed a broken OS that was "GPL Pure" was better than a functional one.

So as a system builder while I would like nothing more than for this to work, as i think win 8 is an abomination and MSFT has always treated us like red headed stepchildren between this and the fact that a good 90% of triple A games in the last 10 years have been DirectX only? I just don't see how its gonna work, somebody really needs to do an interview with valve and ask the hard hitting questions. Maybe they have an answer, maybe they have cooked up their own GPL V2 only fork, maybe they have bought a good chunk of the Wine guys and have them working on a "clicky clicky" simple version of wine to integrate with SteamOS, I just don't know but I would MUCH rather read how they are gonna solve these VERY difficult issues, not read an oversized commercial about yet another supposedly innovative controller.

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ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by sixsixtysix · 2013-09-27 11:11 · Score: 1

I'll accept ads in a game, if they are relevant. If the game has, say, a convenience store, I'd LOVE to see real products...like in real life. Unfortunately, it never seems to happen correctly. Like, it'd be all Coca-cola and no Pepsi. Or the worst, is when it's some poster, but the same poster in every level. I remember when they put ads into BF2(I think) and they were for Intel and such... on a billboard in a foreign land. At least put it in the native language, as I can see by the graphic what it's actually for. If they could do it right, with real products and players both sides of these bullshit rivalries, I think it'd make modern games much more immersive. Hell, if it was set in the recent past, you could the companies' old logos and stuff. Neat. But yeah, any other in-game advertising is pretty bad.

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Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by hairyfeet · 2013-09-27 11:17 · Score: 1

Are you TRYING to be foolish, or does it just come naturally? You CAN hold a book, buy it, and have it shipped to you and you CAN hold software when its on a CD or DVD, you can order it no matter the form, and you can have it shipped to you.

Meanwhile what she said is correct, this IS vaporware. Can you hold it? Buy it? Have it shipped to you? No, and just like the Foleo and MSFT Courier until they have them for sale somewhere its just bullshit and marketing.

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ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-27 11:24 · Score: 1

I can't hold Angelina Jolie in my hands, but I find her interesting. Nobody has found the ultimate truth underlying quantum physics, but I find it interesting.

" No, and just like the Foleo and MSFT Courier until they have them for sale somewhere its just bullshit and marketing."

So when they don't have something to sell it is marketing, but once they do it won't be anymore. You truly are "special", aren't you.

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Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

Re:I can only say one thing... by drinkypoo · 2013-09-27 12:09 · Score: 1

I never got used to using my thumb for simultaneous presses.

Don't try to press both buttons. Only try to realize the truth. Er, wait. Only try to make both buttons be pressed down. If your goal is to make the buttons fall and not to press on them with a finger then eventually your nervous system will learn how to slide the finger over to hit the second button.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Re:I can only say one thing... by drinkypoo · 2013-09-27 12:15 · Score: 1

When people first saw the diamond on the NES control pad, they said "The controller design is awful. Why the fuck would you get rid of the traditional joystick?"

Who is this "everyone"? And what is this "diamond"? When the NES control pad came out, kids had already learned to use the cross (or "D[irection] Pad" in the common parlance, which no one calls a diamond) by playing Nintendo's LCD Game & Watch series games. And gamers had already experienced flat game control pads on the Intellivision and Colecovision systems. You don't really know what you're talking about, so why do we care about your judgment?

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Re:Skeptical... by fostware · 2013-09-27 12:21 · Score: 1

Didn't work well for the IBM TrackPoint...

http://xkcd.com/243/

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"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by snakeplissken · 2013-09-27 13:01 · Score: 1

how in the world are they gonna pull off functional DRM in a FOSS OS

maybe the same way they do on linux already, the os will be foss but the steam app won't be, it's possible that on steamos the 'steam app' might take the place of a desktop environment instead of being simply an app run in one as it is now, but nothing in the gpl forces an application written to run on linux to also be gpl, as long as you follow the rules

Alternative name by gringer · 2013-09-27 13:43 · Score: 1

I propose that Valve call this thing the Steam 'roller

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Ask me about repetitive DNA

Re:Skeptical... by EvanED · 2013-09-27 14:16 · Score: 1

The real issue with mouse vs. thumbstick/trackpad accuracy has little to do with the resolution.

I think a very good case could be made that the biggest difference is between relative and absolute positioning, and Valve says they solved that by making their controller allow absolute positioning.

Suppose I want to move my view from direction A to direction B. On the PC, I have to learn how far to move my mouse. It doesn't matter how quickly or slowly I move it*, it will always go to the same place. If I need to do it very quickly and lose some accuracy, I do the same thing as if I need accuracy but not speed, just faster.

(* Well, if you turn off mouse acceleration. But even if you don't, what I say is still way more true of mouse/keyboard than it is of controller.)

Contrast with a controller, where there's a timing aspect. You have to point the stick in the direction you want and hold it there for a certain time. If you prefer speed to accuracy, you don't just do the same thing quicker than if you prefer accuracy to speed, because you actually have to move the thumbstick further to swing over.

And a related problem is that the thumbstick has to balance between allowing fine control and also wild swings -- and if you want to be able to swing around faster than your controller and settings allow, you can't. With absolute positioning, you have to be going really damn fast before you can't go faster.

As someone who as a rule hates controllers and passed by this announcement for awhile, I'm actually fairly excited after reading through. Cautiously excited, because I'm not convinced of the resolution question, your point, or how for a game like an RTS or 4X how well the circular control maps to the rectangular screen. But I will definitely be checking it out.

Re:What's the point? by Fatalis · 2013-09-27 14:17 · Score: 1

It's modded Insightful because it's parodying the parent post.

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Deus est fatalis

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by interkin3tic · 2013-09-27 15:26 · Score: 1

It appears to be a calm and reasonable response to a comment asserting that this controller will be used to force you to watch ads.

You don't read good.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by interkin3tic · 2013-09-27 15:35 · Score: 1

As snakeplissken said, they already appear to be doing steam on linux just fine. The streaming seems like it will get around some of that too: any game DRM that requires windows WILL be running windows.

Lastly, I really have no clue about system architecture. Are you saying it will be trivial to crack every game through steam OS? Or are you saying "there will be holes in security?" It seems like every game is cracked and online in days if not hours. So I don't think steam can make a system that is 100% secure for DRM. I don't think they really need to make it as secure for DRM as windows either.

Re:what?? no by interkin3tic · 2013-09-27 15:40 · Score: 1

I'd argue that while some aspects of 1 and 2 may be pretty common, like graphics and play style, they're still good all around games independent of their time. HL3 doesn't need to be revolutionary for it to be a great game.

I think the hype is over "will it come out ever?!?" and "What's going to happen next for gordon freeman?!?" not "What new technical or storytelling innovation will valve come up with?"

Re:how about a keyboard and a mouse... by Molochi · 2013-09-27 16:30 · Score: 1

Valve already stated that SteamOS is a Linux Distro. GNU? Not sure. Is SteamOS going to run on proprietary driver blobs from NV and AMD by default? Then I'd think not. But it's intended to run on a variety of hardware including a HTPC that could be sitting in your living room right now. At least from what I read on the Valve FAQ. I really have a difficult time wrapping my head around a Linux system with a variety of hardware that won't require some access to a command line and something to edit configs. but if they can pull that off, kudos to them.

My take is that a Steambox will be a Linux PC in a console like enclosure with a gameconsole like interface, sold by third parties, and likely including some level of remote support with the price of admission.

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Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by AdamHaun · 2013-09-27 16:32 · Score: 1

Second... no, it isn't interesting new technology. It's technology that's been around for the past two decades at least, wrapped up in a slightly different package.

To be fair, that is what basically all new products are.

For gamers, a new type of video game controller is a big deal. Compare a DualShock 4 gamepad (2013) to an SNES gamepad (1990). They're still remarkably similar. The basic concept of two analog sticks, a D-pad, start/select, four face buttons, and some shoulder buttons has been the standard for well over a decade. The exceptions are some niche attempts at motion control that haven't worked so well for actually gaming. Using trackpads to replace the analog sticks on a gamepad is a new idea. It sounds pretty clever, assuming they can optimize the design.

I personally don't find vaporware advertisements interesting -- when they have an actual product, that I can hold, or buy, or at least get a fucking diagram to build a prototype of it, then it's interesting. Because in my world, interesting is defined as "shit I can use", not "shit someone in marketing dreamed up."

Part of the announcement is a request for beta testers. Beta hardware will be shipped in the next few months with plans for release early next year. That's not vaporware. As someone who's eligible for the beta, I appreciated the heads-up.

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Visit the

Re:DRM DRM DRM by Molochi · 2013-09-27 16:42 · Score: 1

She should still have her own account. I believe you are restricted to the same degree she is with the single licence. If you want to share access to the account, have her sit on your lap working the keyboard while you handle the "mouse."

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"The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"

Re:Skeptical... by Molochi · 2013-09-27 17:02 · Score: 1

I always considered trackballs better for fine movement when I used a 2-3 button PS2 mouse, back then I used both. But a modern gaming mouse is incredibly precise and all the buttons stay under your fingers during that movement. With a decent mouse you can even hotkey the speed of your cursor movement. I don't see the advantage of trackballs anymore.

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Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by Molochi · 2013-09-27 18:02 · Score: 1

Back in the day I used to prefer KB/M/joystick, all three. Buddy of mine used KB/M/Trackball/and a Spaceball all at the same time. It's a PC so you don't really have to choose. Maybe. We'll see.

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"The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"

Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by Molochi · 2013-09-27 18:15 · Score: 1

It's probably more relative joystick vs a mouse's absolute position. I don't have a problem playing a game designed with the autoaim inherent to a joystick's lackadaisical movement. But it can be annoying for the game to get around to the target I want to hit.

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"The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-09-27 20:23 · Score: 1

Look up how Steam functions.

It validates your license to play a title every time you fire one up (or in offline mode, validates against stored credentials which will expire eventually).

Can it be cracked? Of course! Steam protection has been cracked on Windows.

Problem is, it is constantly moving target, with massive amount of software (each requiring individual crack to strip off the wrapper) and vast amount of people just can't be assed to be so cheapskate as to not just pay for the software to have it Just Work.

There is no "master key" crack against all Steam software as each Steam game has it's own wrapper that is dependent on Steam servers to function. And since you do not control Steam servers, you can't just "compile it away". This is not some dumb CD check as the validation is done using public key crypto to decrypt bits that you need to run the application and the servers have the other side of that equation. You would have to recompile each game from Steam to bypass it. You don't get sources for those. Yes, it is possible to binary patch them. No, it is not constructive use of your time compared to the benefit (only to see the benefit go poof when the game patches the next time)

Re:I can only say one thing... by Kahlandad · 2013-09-27 20:58 · Score: 1

GP was the one who called it a "diamond" rather than a D-pad or cross. As another poster pointed out, he may have been commenting on the layout of the A, B, X, Y buttons. If that's the case, then I misunderstood him, but nobody calls the buttons a "diamond", either.

The Colecovision did NOT have a flat D-pad style controller... it had a joystick. Get educated before trying to get smart.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by thegarbz · 2013-09-27 21:05 · Score: 1

A closed binary talking to a closed binary gives them plenty of scope for DRM. None of this would run afoul of GPL unless they use GPL code in either the Steam application or any of the games.

They are under no obligation to provide you that code.

This is *awesome*! by Xarvh · 2013-09-27 21:44 · Score: 1

I think this is very innovative and I hope it will work.
I love the fact that it's completely symmetric but most of all, it's open!
How many gaming and especially non-gaming possibilities does this open?
This is the perfect device to control a drone.

Re:Today's Slashvertisement brought to you by... by higuita · 2013-09-28 00:03 · Score: 1

why the DRM in linux is that much different from in windows?

In windows you can also preload DLL that hijack system calls to report what ever you want. Most copy protections where cracked in windows and people still play and have games on it... why linux should be different? yes, might be easier in linux to break the DRM, but unlike consoles, steam games are usually cheap (even better with the discounts and humble bundles), the DRM is almost invisible to the user and they allow a game to be shared. So, even if some games will be pirated, most of the people will not care. Most of the "DRM" today is "you need a valid copy to play online", so having a pirated copy is a bit useless.

Finally, the DRM is user level, not kernel level... steam only talks to the kernel via the public API, so "no user level breaking" is permitted (by Linus and top developers orders)

Wine can still play DRM games just fine... and you control both the linux kernel and the "wine kernel", yet there is no major piracy problems due that... hell, i play some DRMed linux games on steam and searching for pirated copies of those games i found none (yet i can find windows pirated versions)... so again, what is the problem here?

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Higuita

Re:DRM DRM DRM by higuita · 2013-09-28 00:12 · Score: 1

not any more...

steam now allows a game you own to the played by friends... you share a games the the other account can play it. If you try to start the games and other is playing, the remote "copy" is disabled and the owner can play it again. So setup a account for you and another for your wife and share games. If you both wan't to play the same game, you fall in to the "2 players, 2 licenses, please".

legally, your steam account ownership is not different from a car... both own it, only one can drive.

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Higuita

Re:I can only say one thing... by drinkypoo · 2013-09-28 00:16 · Score: 1

The Colecovision did NOT have a flat D-pad style controller... it had a joystick. Get educated before trying to get smart.

It had a flat joystick that you basically had to press on the top of because it had such a massive head. The massive head was flat. And it was too big to reasonably put a child's fingers around and also be able to hold the controller and hit buttons. I've owned two of them, thanks.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Re:Skeptical... by Zero__Kelvin · 2013-09-28 01:10 · Score: 1

For one thing, you don't need to move the thing; it is perfect for areas without much table space. Also, you can go across two or more monitors worth of very high resolution display space with the flick of a thumb.

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Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun

Living together; visiting for another reason by tepples · 2013-09-28 23:33 · Score: 1

It's 2013. People still live with other people. Therefore, it is likely that a given household will have more than one gamer. Couch multiplayer allows people who live in the same household to play a game together. I've also found it useful for when people happen to be visiting for some reason other than video games and happen to get the itch to play a game together. One example is when parents get together for a family reunion and drag the kids along.

Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by matt328 · 2013-09-30 01:25 · Score: 1

Nuh huh shut up you're an oxymoron.

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Re:It incorporates some interesting concepts, but. by balbus000 · 2013-10-01 06:07 · Score: 1

If SC2 and WoW (I'm not currently subscribed, but I don't kid myself by saying "I'll never be back") could run on this, then I could probably get rid of my Windows box.

interesting , by rechardtop · 2013-10-02 11:33 · Score: 1

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