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Ask Slashdot: Best Open Source Project For a Router/Wi-Fi Access Point?

An anonymous reader writes "My wireless router just died. I have an old netbook lying around that has a wired network interface and a wireless one. The wireless card is supported in master mode by Linux, FreeBSD, and OpenBSD. What does Slashdot recommend I use to turn it into a router/wireless access point? DD-WRT? pfSense? Smoothwall? Fedora/Ubuntu/OpenBSD with a manual configuration? I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty and I know what I'm doing, but I want as close to zero maintenance as possible."

193 comments

  1. DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you want something powerful but maintenance free then DD-WRT on dedicated router hardware is the way to go. Running an ARM system-on-chip without active cooling and everything on flash memory is going to be far more reliable than any kind of PC set up. DD-WRT does pretty much anything you want and you can get a root shell if you want.

    For what it's worth I prefer Buffalo hardware. It's robust and performs well.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    1. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by agoodm · · Score: 5, Informative

      A properly configured and set up PC based router with appropriate active or passive cooling will be more reliable than ARM SoC based solutions due to the additional speed providing additional routing capacity. Most SoC solutions ive seen have insufficient power for reliable operation under anything more than a moderate load. Source: I manufacture and install PC based routers in places where ordinary routers are becoming unstable

    2. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's why I recommend Buffalo hardware. Their main market is Japan where symmetrical gigabit connections are quite common, so their hardware is capable of routing that. I find it to be reliable long term (5+ years).

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by johnnys · · Score: 4, Informative
      This is probably not what the OP wants to hear (surprise! It's Slashdot after all) but I agree that a VERY good option is a Buffalo router. I bought a Buffalo WZR-600DHP running DD-WRT and it has been completely reliable in my SOHO environment. The feature set, tunability and capabilities of DD-WRT on this device are extensive and impressive.

      I have tried DD-WRT on some older routers (Linksys) in the past and although the features were there the reliability and dependability were just not there. I had to reset every few weeks and reconfigure. So when I saw Buffalo was using DD-WRT I decided to try it and I have been very happy.

      --
      Sometimes the "writing on the wall" is blood spatter...
    4. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've heard good and bad (read Newegg feedback for example) about Buffalo routers going dead. Some are just REBRANDS.

    5. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by icebike · · Score: 1

      Add to this the fact that a laptop wifi card is not exactly known for its range, or power.

      I understand that this is slashdot and people want to turn sow's ears into silk purses and run Linux on their toaster ovens, but that doesn't make it a good solution. Just about ANY off the shelf wifi router will be a better solution.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    6. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by sribe · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth I prefer Buffalo hardware. It's robust and performs well.

      Seconded. I can give you plenty of reasons not to buy Linksys, or Cisco, or NetGear, or D-Link. I can give you 0 reasons not to buy Buffalo ;-)

    7. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by LMariachi · · Score: 1

      FWIW, several of Buffalo's wireless routers ship with DD-WRT now.

    8. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by mellon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm a little bit surprised to see DD-WRT getting such prominent billing. I've been using OpenWRT very happily for a long time, and had trouble getting DD-WRT to do what I want. It's possible that things have changed since I last investigated, of course.

      I'm a bit biased in that I wanted something hackable; I've been able to make packages for OpenWRT and have them work with very little effort, and even been able to debug stuff under gdb on the router. This is probably also possible with DD-WRT, but when I investigated, OpenWRT seemed clearly easier to develop on. Building the router image from source was dead easy; customizing it was easy with "make menuconfig" and building packages within the build tree (with support for the packages in "make menuconfig") was easily done as well.

      My point here isn't to say "don't use DD-WRT," because I have nothing bad to say about it; rather it is that it's worth considering OpenWRT as well. Personally I've had a lot of success with it, and recommend it highly as a development router OS.

    9. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You guys all seem to be missing the point. He wants to repurpose old hardware without spending anything. I used to do something similar in my teenaged years (this was in the analog era) when I'd turn used transistor radios into guitar fuzzboxes. "But you can get a professional one for only $250!" Yeah, but I could turn a broken radio into one for $2.50.

      If my aging router dies before this notebook does I'll probably do something similar with it. Plugging a new router in is no fun, building your own out of useless junk is.

    10. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Alef · · Score: 1

      I used to run DD-WRT once, and liked the configurability and stability. However, a gigantic security hole found in 2009 pretty much destroyed all my confidence in the competence of the maintainers with regard to security. Basically, it would execute commands (as root!) directly from the url of a request to the management interface. All an attacker would need to do is get you to click an embedded link somewhere, and you are owned. (My link above is safe, by the way -- did you click on it?)

    11. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

      Seconded. I can give you plenty of reasons not to buy Linksys, or Cisco, or NetGear, or D-Link. I can give you 0 reasons not to buy Buffalo ;-)

      And I can give you one reason yes to buy Netgear. My new Wireless N-150 WNR1000 cost me $9.95 through my cable company.
      Make that 2 reasons - It has run rock solid for ~3 years now on its standard firmware.
      Point: Always look at the overall ROI.

      --
      "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    12. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Source: I manufacture and install PC based routers in places where ordinary routers are becoming unstable

      So you're saying you're biased...

      Since OP didn't say what workload, it's safe to assume it's for a home environment. Arm SOC is more than enough for a home broadband line. A PC is the wrong option.

    13. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by saleenS281 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      DD-WRT for all intents and purposes might as well be dead. At this point they've essentially stopped releasing updates unless you're paying for a subscription. And their last release for most hardware platforms wasn't even GA code, it was "pre-SPX".

    14. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by icebike · · Score: 1, Redundant

      I'm pretty sure I didn't miss the point, as you would have realized if you read past the first sentence. (Yeah, I know, its slashdot, but for gods sake the world does not stop at the first piece of punctuation you encounter.!!)

      Even after his experiment, he will need a new router, for all of the reasons mentioned by several posters above.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    15. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ...until the power bill spoils your fun.

      Especially 'older' x86 gear is easily in the 130-150 watts range idle, compared to ~10 watts for a typical home router. Another issue is the antenna situation, you don't want long cables to 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz antennas, but at the same time keeping the close to a big steel PC case affects your reception as well. The same goes with the price, while you can get a decent 2.4 GHz wlan card for around 20 EUR, 5 GHz capable ones start around 40 EUR - so the radios alone easily reach the price ranged asked for pretty good mass-produced plastic router (which have no interference/ shielding issues).

      In most cases, unless we're counting the number of concurrent users in the medium 2-figure range, a cheap plastic router is a much better choice, which pays off within a few months just through saved electricity. With only a bit of searching you can even find pretty hackable devices as well.

    16. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      I looked at OpenWRT but it doesn't support many 802.11ac routers, including my preferred one which is the Buffalo WZR-D1800H-EU. DD-WRT does fully support it though, and in fact Buffalo offers official support for many models. I didn't even know there was a subscription but the firmware I'm using was released last month.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    17. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by jackb_guppy · · Score: 1

      Please do not talk to my 486sx25 with 12M of memory and 283M harddrive running an old IPCOP version. Works just great.

    18. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He's using a netbook, 1st gen Atom netbooks idle 8W (according to powertop, so maybe 10ish when factoring in the power supply), newer ones will likely be more efficient. Re-purposing a netbook won't cost a lot extra in power.

    19. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So: they pulled a sveasoft? Ironic.

    20. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Seconded. I can give you plenty of reasons not to buy Linksys, or Cisco, or NetGear, or D-Link. I can give you 0 reasons not to buy Buffalo ;-)

      And I can give you one reason yes to buy Netgear. My new Wireless N-150 WNR1000 cost me $9.95 through my cable company. Make that 2 reasons - It has run rock solid for ~3 years now on its standard firmware. Point: Always look at the overall ROI.

      AWESOME... and it's completely hackproof, customizable and NSA-snoop free? Someone is paying the cost of that router, though it's not necessarily you (but it's not necessary a cash price, either).

    21. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

      You have support for your Buffalo because Buffalo pays dd-wrt to write them a custom version of dd-wrt. In exchange they provide dd-wrt with the info they need to create drivers for the hardware they use.

    22. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I wonder if the irony is lost on them.

    23. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by fast+turtle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Many folks make the same god damn mistake on the energy cost savings by getting a god damn router. Sorry but even in California (most expensive electricity in the U.S. @ 0.15 per kilowatt) your cost savings would need to be in the 100w per hour range to even be a Reasonable ROI (return on investment). $0.15 x 1kw (100 watts x 10 hours) is a meager $1.50. Take a cheap $40 router and you're looking at half a year minimum the payback to be worth it - that's for a system using 100 watts per hour. In the case of something low powered like an Atom based netbook - 20 watts for the CPU/Chipset (No Screen/GUI) you're now talking 2 years or better to even break even.

      As an example, I have an old HP system with a 700Mhz Celeron (P3 era) using the Intel 810 chipset. Max power is 100w (PSU rating). In testing, the system uses 10w and can successfully boot from a floppy drive (pfsense). Note that it has 512M of ram (most $40 routers only have 4M) plus the CPU is 10-20 times faster. Hell pfsense or anyother floppy based router OS can damn near fit into the CPU cache. Now the cost to convert this to a router/ap is $0.00 for the simple reason it's already got a 10/100 nic and I have an unused b/g wifi card (PCI based) that can be installed. All I need is a bit of time to configure the unit and once done, it'll outperform any >$100 SoHo router on the market simply because of the amount of memory and cpu speed. All it will cost is some time/effort to setup. Value is priceless because I also learn how to do it.

      --
      Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
    24. Re: DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've been pseudo-commercial for the last 5-6 years minimum...

    25. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Ahem* You're missing the fact that electricity isn't free.

      Using an old PC probably costs you at least 40W more than a router, so that's an extra $35 in electricity per year.
      It's cheaper to buy a new router.

    26. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Or that perhaps he has this thing called experience?

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    27. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Or that perhaps he has this thing called experience? Perhaps he has done it enough to know what works?

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    28. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might want to dig deeper... ftp://ftp.dd-wrt.com/others/eko/BrainSlayer-V24-preSP2/2013/
      Totally fu*ked up PR but current, stability is obviously as guarantied as with any active project...

    29. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the crappy WiFi (single crappy small antenna, likely 2.4Ghz only) on typical netbooks...

    30. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Such a system is unlikely to perform well or be reliable though. Older wifi cards in particular really, really suck. 2.4GHz is overcrowded in many places too, so shelling out for a 5GHz capable card is worthwhile.

      On top of that you have to factor in the cost of electricity to run the thing. Even a laptop is going to be several times the power consumption of an ARM SOC based router. By the time you have bought a reasonable wifi card and factored in electricity you might as well just have shelled out £50 for an 802.11n 5GHz capable router and stuck DD-WRT one it. Even a Buffalo 802.11ac router is under £100 now.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    31. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Actually there is no official support for this model, which is unusual for Buffalo. The port is a community effort done by basically one guy on the forums and beta tested by a bunch of people. Most routers are fairly similar in terms of hardware - similar ARM SOCs, common wifi chipsets and so forth, so porting isn't too hard. Hardware support usually comes from the upstream Linux porting effort.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    32. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I preffer Buffalo too.. but with OpenWRT instead.
      I used to like DD-WRT for many years, but, aparently OpenWRT is more live project, with newer packages and very well documented support.

    33. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by metrix007 · · Score: 1

      Do you have to buy special wireless cards to facilitate it as an AP? I imagine the built in wireless card isn't great for routing.

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    34. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by metrix007 · · Score: 1

      Experience is overrated. There are a lot of people who have experience fixing peoples computers, and don't know jack shit.

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    35. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by metrix007 · · Score: 1

      what would you have had to debug on the router itself?

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    36. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      Good to know buffalo is still making good stuff (and I didn't know some of it now comes with DD-wrt installed).

      I've had a WHR-G125 going strong since maybe 2007 with DD-WRT. It has always been good and bugs have been worked out over time--and bugs usually meant things in DD-WRT that were not tied to general operations (sometimes it wouldn't accept settings changes without a reboot, the "usage log" would fill up or otherwise stop after a month or two of operation without a reboot)...actual routing activity never had a problem that I can think of.

      Lost track of them when they were banned from bringing products to the US for a few years...looking to upgrade (only because I would like to have the built in switch be gigabit and some wireless N might be nice) and I will take a look at the new Buffalo models. Had previously just been waiting until an ASUS or something else with DD-WRT compatibility showed up cheap on slickdeals.

      --
      Bottles.
    37. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Samizdata · · Score: 1

      That's why I recommend Buffalo hardware. Their main market is Japan where symmetrical gigabit connections are quite common, so their hardware is capable of routing that. I find it to be reliable long term (5+ years).

      Seconding the Buffalo recommendation, although I am more of a fan of Tomato firmware, specifically the Shibby mod. As far as a PC based router, I had a Smoothwall based router (this was several years ago) that was a treat to set up and work with. YMMV though, as I mentioned this was several years ago and Smoothwall was a good bit less mature.

      --
      It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage. - Colonel Henry Walton Jones, Jr., Ph.D.
    38. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by formfeed · · Score: 1

      You guys all seem to be missing the point. He wants to repurpose old hardware without spending anything.

      Did that. But if you do the math and look at the electricity costs for running an old laptop 24/7, it is better do buy something new that's arm based, re-flashable, and uses 5W.

      (Unless of course your parents pay for electricity or you live in Alaska and would need an electric heater anyhow.)

    39. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You guys all seem to be missing the point. He wants to repurpose old hardware without spending anything.

      Simply put, it is, in fact, no longer possible to accomplish what the OP is asking.

      quoting comment buried somewhere below:

      Unless "anonymous reader" can set his old hw up and get it online in less than 10 minutes, its simply not worth the time it takes. Considering all the fine expert posts here, this jerkoff's broken router has already "cost" hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars (in five man-minute increments). I sure wish ask.slashdot had a FAQ that told new users to stop posting these kind of questions. The age of repurposing old but still functioning hardware passed when hardware got cheap... because time is only getting more expensive.

      router deals for $40 or less

    40. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watt (power) is Joule (energy) over seconds (time). As such you cannot say things like 100W per hour and be meaningful at the same time as the time unit is already counted in the W.

      Besides and more to the point: a dedicated router board will ALWAYS be more energy efficient than any old refurbished laptop/desktop PC. And with electricity costs included, you have your ROI after a few months already (let's just say one year). Moreover, I don't know about your internet connection, but a 100Mbit NIC won't suffice here. Plus, you probably also need a secondary NIC to connect the internal LAN and probably need a switch. As such, buying a cheap router gives you the 100Mbit+ speed and typically 4 ports + Wifi for the LAN side. Unless you are not using a LAN switch, then you won't save a damn thing by using an old PC as router.

    41. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the submitter isn't in the States. I pay twice as much for a kWh as people in California, for example.

    42. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by idunham · · Score: 1

      ...until the power bill spoils your fun.

      Especially 'older' x86 gear is easily in the 130-150 watts range idle, compared to ~10 watts for a typical home router. Another issue is the antenna situation, you don't want long cables to 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz antennas, but at the same time keeping the close to a big steel PC case affects your reception as well. The same goes with the price, while you can get a decent 2.4 GHz wlan card for around 20 EUR, 5 GHz capable ones start around 40 EUR - so the radios alone easily reach the price ranged asked for pretty good mass-produced plastic router (which have no interference/ shielding issues).

      In most cases, unless we're counting the number of concurrent users in the medium 2-figure range, a cheap plastic router is a much better choice, which pays off within a few months just through saved electricity. With only a bit of searching you can even find pretty hackable devices as well.

      OP said "an old netbook".
      I don't know which one he has, but my 2009 Atom N270-based Aspire One netbook ran a little under 20 watts, per Powertop. That's hardly worthy of mention.

      If it's a netbook, there's no steel case.

      If it supports master mode in all the operating systems named, my guess is he has an Atheros card.
      Those can be pretty good, depending on the card; a number of the commercial routers use them, though DD-WRT targets Broadcom cards.

    43. Re:DD-WRT on Buffalo hardware by idunham · · Score: 1

      Still, I'm inclined to think it makes more sense to listen to someone who's done something that worked than someone who isn't interested in trying it "because it won't work"...

  2. RouterOS by Beardydog · · Score: 0

    That's a thing, right? Am I making that up?

    1. Re:RouterOS by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      Google is your friend (I hope you're not spamming).

    2. Re:RouterOS by randomErr · · Score: 1

      Yes, I would take a look at this mesh router OS that can run on thumb drives:

      http://project-byzantium.org/

      --
      You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
  3. pfSense by kroby · · Score: 5, Informative

    pfSense is a great open source router distro and should have no problem running on your net book. However, Sophos UTM/Astaro Security Gateway is a commercial product that is free for personal use. I recommend it if you need any UTM features such as gateway AV, IPS/IDS, Spam Filtering, and centrally managed AV.

    1. Re:pfSense by CrudPuppy · · Score: 1

      I just retired my office wireless (three WRT54GL units) and replaced with a pfSense firewall and three Aruba Instant 105's

      For the pfSense, I used two Intel wired cards instead of the crappy onboards.

      I couldn't be happier. granted, the Arubas are probably a bit pricey for a house (depends on who you are)

      --
      A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
    2. Re:pfsense by no_such_user · · Score: 1

      DD-WRT is no walk in the park. It's difficult to find a stable version for newer hardware, if there even is a recent release considered stable. Examples: I bought a router that was supposed to be compatible, but it turned out that the only release available wasn't stable. I installed it anyway, but I later found out it wouldn't accept a manually entered IP (due to a javascript problem on the web GUI - resolved in a later release) which turned into a huge headache. On another release (different router), the 5GHz radio didn't work - something about the driver. On the other hand, I have a slightly older router with DD-WRT which has been up for prob over a year with no issues. Verdict... ? If you do your research first and really vet the device you're going to use, you might be okay.

      On the other hand, I've setup three boxes w/ pfSense in the past year, and each has been stable and good to me. The gui is certainly more cryptic than DD-WRT, but it's also far more powerful (as it should be, as it's running on beefier hardware). I've run it on an old P4 (the never ending supply of SFF Dell P4 desktops are good for this), but for something more efficient (and fanless) I've also installed it on inexpensive Atom-based boxes. Still more energy (and more expensive) than a ARM-based device, but the features and stability have been worth it. For WiFi, I just use an inexpensive AP-only device

    3. Re:pfSense by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      pfSense is extremely limited on the Wi-Fi end. Otherwise, it's a great product, if you like tinkering with stuff and don't want a plug-and-play experience.

    4. Re:pfSense by pnutjam · · Score: 2

      The 2.0 series works well with wifi. I have been running pfsense on Alix hardware using an Atheros chipset wifi card and it has been rock solid for at least 5 years. I update it occasionally, but it is truly no maintenance.

      If your wireless card is supported for AP mode it is a great solution, feel free to email me with questions.

    5. Re:pfsense by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      pfsense shines if you are doing virtual infrastructure.

    6. Re:pfsense by hawguy · · Score: 1

      I'm using an atom cpu with several onboard intel gig-e ports.

      fanless and has been pretty reliable so far. my 50mbps cable connection stays up and the 'router' has not needed rebooting in the month or two that I've been using it so far.

      I've been very happy with pfSense running on a PC Engines Alix2d13 board. The board has 3 100mbit ethernet ports and 1 miniPCI slot for Wifi expansion, but I think there's limited driver support for 802.11n capable cards. I already had an Asus 802.11abgn wifi router, so I'm using that router for Wifi, and the pfSense box just as a firewall, VPN server, and a home webserver. I have dual WAN connections and use pfSense to failover from the primary connection (Comcast 50mbit) to the backup 3mbit DSL connection. Works great, and I can set up policy routes to route certain traffic across either WAN connection.

      The Alix is not super powerful and is somewhat memory constrained (256MB), but I can get a Speedtest peak of 60mbit down from my Comcast connection. They are supposed to be working on a more powerful Alix successor that will have 1 or 2GB of RAM and a faster, dual core CPU. The cost is supposed to be in line with the current boards ~ $200.

      I've only had this setup for a few months, but seems pretty stable, I last rebooted over 70 days ago and haven't had any problems with it.

    7. Re:pfSense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been running IPCop as a virtual machine inside the free version of ESX on a retired HP business desktops for years. I use it at home and at all of our different offices at work for our DSL/Cable circuits (non production lab and guest access). I even use to connect all of those different offices lab sites together using IPSEC on it. You just need two network cards and ESX supports many cheap realtek models. I never have to reboot them or have problems with them, they literally run for years sitting in the corner headless with no one touching them. Bonus is if you have 4-6GB of memory in the ESX machine, you can run a few other small Windows or Linux instances on it as well. Disk I/O with ESX running on a single desktop SATA drive is not great but it more than enough for this case. You can also NFS mount other disks to the ESX server if you desire.

    8. Re:pfsense by iMouse · · Score: 1

      I've been using pfSense for the last 3 years or so and really love it. pfSense just by itself isn't the best solution for Wi-Fi, but combined with APs or routers in bridged mode loaded with Tomato, DD-WRT, OpenWRT, etc, you can do a lot with it. Include managed switches with VLAN support, multiple NICs and you can nearly run an entire infrastructure off of it.

      The captive portal has been improved since 2.0 and received a lot more features with the recent 2.1 release. There is also support for plugins that greatly expand the capabilities of your pfSense box.

    9. Re:pfSense by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      What about wireless N and AC support? Officially, they're not supported...
      Fortunately, it's not something I have to mess with, since I only use pfSense for firewall/routing duties, along with an Asus RT-N66U for Wi-Fi.

    10. Re:pfSense by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      That's true, neither of those are supported, but I expect N will be available soon. This guys appears to be cost conscious, so I doubt he is running N or AC equipment.

    11. Re:pfsense by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      yeah, I usually do installs with both pfSense and OpenWRT, each doing what they do best. With VLAN capable switches, there are really many awesome topologies you can handle.

      I have to say that AP mode wasn't that good on 1.2.3 but everybody says it works well on 2.x and everything else does work well, so it's probably the only all-in-one solution for the OP that can do an all-GUI config.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    12. Re:pfSense by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      I use ClearOS and I believe the latest version will handle WiFi. It's free but there are pay for play options. It also functions as a firewall, does QOS for my network, VPN endpoint, blah blah. i was using a WRT54G up until recently too but have replaced it with an AX capable Asus router for which Tomato firmware exists. Thus far I've not yet felt the need to switch out the stock stuff though...

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    13. Re:pfSense by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      I too run an ESX server and have been tempted to run a software firewall on it - ClearOS though. I'm just very hesitant to have my whole network going in and out of a single box :-O I would agree that ESX is a good way to get the most out of hardware but it can be pretty picky about what hardware it will run on :-(

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    14. Re:pfSense by adri · · Score: 1

      11n will work on Atheros hardware when they either/or:

      * update pfsense to work against FreeBSD-10;
      * start releasing snapshots of pfsense that work against FreeBSD-HEAD;
      * backport the net80211, driver and userland tools from -HEAD to -8 (which I've done a few times, I've just not committed it to FreeBSD.)

      11ac is a different story. I'm going to let the Linux side shake out before I start work on the FreeBSD 802.11ac support.

      -adrian
      (FreeBSD wireless maintainer.)

  4. I've never actually used by opus_magnum · · Score: 4, Interesting

    either, but there are also Zeroshell and ClearOS.

  5. zero maintenance by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty and I know what I'm doing, but I want as close to zero maintenance as possible."

    DD-WRT. Pick a good router with a fast cpu in it if you plan on running P2P with it. My high-end Asus 'black knight' (one of the recommended high-end dd-wrt models) shits itself if you have more than about a 800 or so simultanious connections, because the CPU isn't fast enough. I would not recommend using a 'netbook' with a wifi card simply because it consumes a lot of power and you'll make up in lower power consumption costs what you'd spend on a purpose-built router in about 15-18 months.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:zero maintenance by dugancent · · Score: 5, Informative

      TomatoUSB is another option. I prefer it over DD-WRT personally, but they are both good options.

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
    2. Re:zero maintenance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Agreed. I use the Shibby branch on my ASUS RT-N16. Been running strong about 2 years with no problems.

      http://tomato.groov.pl/

    3. Re:zero maintenance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      DD-WRT in my experience can make "flaky" routers on default binaries suddenly WORK AS ADVERTISED.

      I've had both linksys and dlink routers that rebooted themselves constantly, DDWRT solved whatever was causing it and they're now rock solid!

    4. Re:zero maintenance by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      Which Asus are you talking about? The RT-N66U and RT-AC66U, as well as the RT-N56U are known for being able to handle loads that would be unbearable on lesser devices.

      In any case, the N66U and AC66U (and the soon-to-be-released AC68U, which has a much faster processor than its younger siblings) have excellent official firmaware support and are compatible with tons of different OS, from slightly modified stock firmware (it's open source) to DD-WRT. They're also easy to load a different OS at will with no hacking required.

      The best part is that they're crazy fast and have excellent range on Wi-Fi, besides very good routing.

    5. Re:zero maintenance by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Get another cup of coffee, he wants his old netbook to be the router. He doesn't want to BUY one, he's a nerd. He wants to make one out of junk. I commend him for it, I do the same when I can.

      If I were doing the same thing with my setup, a wireless notebook and two wired towers, I'd slap a NIC or two (I'm sure I have some old ones somewhere) in one of the towers, feed the DSL to that and feed the home-made wireless router with that.

      I'd still want advice on the best OSes for the two routers.

    6. Re:zero maintenance by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      I'm talking about the RT-N66U, with the latest stable version of DD-WRT; v24-SP2, July 2013 release. Through trial and error, I've found the max before the load average causes it to start choking and delaying packets is about 1300 connections, with a TCP timeout of 900 and a UDP timeout of 60. Note that these numbers are far below what the 'out of the box' defaults are. Those defaults may work if you are not using QoS, but if latency and buffer bloat is a concern of yours, then you're going to find it chokes at a much lower threshold than the documentation and online reports suggest.

      It's hardly a surprise to me that a CPU running at 300mhz might have problems shaping more than a few mbits/s of traffic.. hell even with the overclocking tweaked to nearly double speed and the damn thing hot enough you could cook an egg on it, it still can't handle the load for very long. This is entirely CPU bottleneck, there's plenty of memory and plenty of I/O available.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    7. Re:zero maintenance by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      Where did you get 300MHz from? I've always read 600MHz... In any case, if it's not enough for you, you might want to look into a dedicated router (like a pfSense box) or the RT-AC68U, since it has two CPU cores at 800MHz.

      Maybe DD-WRT is slower than the official/slightly modded firmware, 1300 connections sounds low-ish judging by what is commonly said about the N66U. Unfortunately, I have no numbers to share because I use mine exclusively as an access point, with routing delegated to a pfSense box...

    8. Re:zero maintenance by spongman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Please mod parent up.

      Tomatousb is brilliant. Hardware compatibility is a little less broad than some of the others, but once you get t installed the usability is like butter.

    9. Re:zero maintenance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ditto. Shibby on a Belkin F7D3301. Factory firmware on that thing was trash, which happens to be where I found the router to begin with. I was about to trow it out (again) but on a whim tried Shibby's TomatoUSB. Rock solid stable, coverage throughout the house, and it consumes like no power (doesn't even get noticeably warm). But yeah, Shibby TomatoUSB - good stuff.

    10. Re:zero maintenance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had DD-WRT on my Linksys WRT54G v1.1, and it became flaky after I moved house (the wifi would intermittently stop working necessitating a reboot, not sure why but perhaps due to interference with a neighbours router as next door only switch theirs on when they are using it), but it became rock solid after I switched to Tomato (and I'm still using it).

    11. Re:zero maintenance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also, TomatoUSB and it's many variants are still updated, unlike DD-WRT which is so far out of date it's not even funny.

    12. Re:zero maintenance by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      There's a Tomato release for your router - I have the AC version of that router. I've not yet loaded the 3rd party firmware but I've not run into limitations either - but I have at least researched it. My WRT54G used to run into limitations with many connections too - Tomato was able to help the stability greatly and might help you as well.

      I'd also point out that netbooks do NOT use tons of power and as cheap as power is it'll be years before he makes back the cost of an Asus router like your's...

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    13. Re:zero maintenance by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Ah so you've already got 3rd party firmware on it. Have you tried Tomato? I'd be interested to know how that worked, I've not yet felt the need to tweak my AC equipped Asus - yet. If that still doesn't work maybe consider building or buying a Microtik? It's pay for play for any but the most basic stuff - which requires a registration too - but might work on good hardware. I've played with it in a VM and it seemed pretty straightforward if not a tad locked down. Pretty sure they handle wireless. Any chance you could get the torrent traffic off the wireless? In my case I only use wireless when I have to and run wired everywhere for the most bandwidth. It is way less headaches if you can do it IMO.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    14. Re:zero maintenance by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      'd also point out that netbooks do NOT use tons of power and

      ... It's not the netbook per-se that sucks your wallet dry. It's the power brick. As long as it's connected, it's vampirically sucking juice, and depending on its efficiency rating and power correction factor. PCF is the reason why running your fridge is so expensive -- it doesn't consume as much electricity as your bill says it does, but whenever you put something across the rails that is an inductor (transformer, motor, etc.) the voltage and current come out of phase -- you are charged based on how much current you're using at any point in time, as the meter measures amperage across it, not voltage drop. So running electrical motors can cost you a lot. That's why at most industrial factories you will find a large electrical motor next to the mains that just sits there all day, spinning. It won't be connected to anything, except maybe an exhaust fan; It is a syncronization motor, and its sole purpose is to match phase with the mains and correct for any phase shifting caused by equipment in the plant. For something like an aluminum smelting plant, if this engine, which performs literally no actual work, breaks down it is a bigger plant emergency than any other single piece of equipment breaking because of this simple glitch in how meters work.

      Your netbook may sip electricity... but the power brick it's connected to is probably nothing more than a transformer with a fat ass capacitor and a half-bridge rectifier in it. And that's what's gonna bleed you.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    15. Re:zero maintenance by RR · · Score: 1

      I'd also point out that netbooks do NOT use tons of power and

      ... It's not the netbook per-se that sucks your wallet dry. It's the power brick. <snip> Your netbook may sip electricity... but the power brick it's connected to is probably nothing more than a transformer with a fat ass capacitor and a half-bridge rectifier in it.

      I don't know where you got your netbooks, but the netbooks I've seen have all used switching power adapters. It turns out, all that metal needed for transformers and large capacitors and heat sinks makes them uneconomical for even cheap electronics.

      --
      Have a nice time.
    16. Re:zero maintenance by amorsen · · Score: 1

      are compatible with tons of different OS, from slightly modified stock firmware (it's open source) to DD-WRT.

      As long as you do not modify the kernel. They are Broadcom devices, so your kernel has to be compatible with the binary crap that came with the router.

      I'm not sure it is even possible to get a non-Broadcom router with decent performance these days.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    17. Re:zero maintenance by amorsen · · Score: 1

      If your fridge is halfway decent, it will have an electronically controlled asynchronous motor with power factor correction.

      Practically everything else sold today will have power factor correction as well, unless its draw is so small that it doesn't matter.

      And the synchronization motor is not there to fix how meters work. It is there to prevent the grid breaking down. It would be there even if electricity was free.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    18. Re:zero maintenance by Samizdata · · Score: 2

      Nthing. As I said above, I had an old Buffalo that I put Tomato on (as I was on a metered ISP that had no way to check usage). Later I moved over to the Shibby branch since it had some feature I wanted (like DNSCrypt). Nary a regret of any sort.

      --
      It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage. - Colonel Henry Walton Jones, Jr., Ph.D.
    19. Re:zero maintenance by TheLink · · Score: 1

      you are charged based on how much current you're using at any point in time, as the meter measures amperage across it, not voltage drop

      That only applies if you are charged by the kVAh, should not apply if you are charged by kWh (unless you're being cheated).

      Industrial rates are usually kVAh. Domestic/residential rates are usually kWh.

      --
  6. OpenWRT by Knuckx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OpenWRT Attitude Adjustment 12.04; loads of packages available from official repositories, nice webinterface, and no commercial side selling product activation keys for certain features (like DD-WRT).

    1. Re:OpenWRT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah. OpenWRT is the way to go. You can build or customise everything and it has pretty decent documentation in the wiki.

      Development for DD-WRT is a mess and the documentation is awful. You can't trust the DD-WRT website with its database since it is massively out of date and has a ton of just plain incorrect information. You need to work out what specific blessed build number works for your particular hardware and revision but the only way to find that out is to trawl around in their forums with the huge threads. Once you've found a working build then don't ever upgrade since it is likely that they've broken it in mysterious ways in a later build.

    2. Re:OpenWRT by jonsmirl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      OpenWRT is the way to go. Just buy a new, cheap commercial router and replace the software with OpenWRT. Don't mess with the laptop. It chews too much AC power and the wifi is probably not as powerful as the radio in the commercial router. You can buy fine 2.4Ghz router hardware for $30.

      DDwrt is a mess, OpenWRT project organization is much better.

    3. Re:OpenWRT by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      Yea, sure so tell me does it work or doesn't it work? DD-WRT just works. When all this babble is clean out and it says "Supported withotu BS" I may try it.

      Installation

      The WHR-G54S runs a tftp server at 192.168.11.1 on the LAN interface during the boot process. OpenWrt should be installed via TFTP, follow the instructions in the HOWTO section.

      If the device has been installed with OpenWrt in the past, it is possible that (somehow) the tftp server address is set to 192.168.1.1 (mine was)

      In the past there have been some reported problems with the 2.6 kernel versions but these appear to be resolved. Although Attitude Adjustment 12.09-rc1 does appear to run on this router it is extremely slow.

      Now officially Trunk and AA are not supported for this router (from Attitude Adjustment announcement) "Lower end devices with only 16 MiB RAM will easily run out of Memory, for bcm47xx based devices is Backfire with brcm-2.4 recommended" Backfire 10.03.1 (suggested previous to my edit of this wiki) provides a more acceptable level of performance.

      The base trunk as of r36656 will OOM this router at boot time, even without wireless drivers loading (https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/13558)

      In any case the generic brcm47xx image should be used. The filename for that image will be something like openwrt-brcm47xx-squashfs.trx

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    4. Re:OpenWRT by keith_nt4 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      As somebody who spent about 3 weeks (I'm kinda new to linux) trying to get OpenWRT working on my router I would like to disagree. I can't speak to DDWRT's organization but the OpenWRT community seems completely dead to me: the wiki is outdated/inaccurate/contradictory (often on the same page) and the forum seems dead as well except from one or two threads. Good luck finding any help from that "community" *.

      I was exploring DDWRT at one point and that documentation said OpenWRT packages will work with DDWRT. I don't know if that's true, partially true or untrue but I don't think I'm ever going to bother with OpenWRT again. If that is true of DDWRT at least for my purposes DDWRT will be just as flexible as OpenWRT. Also from what little I observed the DDWRT forums seem to have constant activity, the supported hardware list is much larger and the documentation much more complete/better written. In fact if you dig deep enough you'll find that OpenWRTs seeming officially supported hardware list is maintained by a completely different entity then that of the people in the forums and the forums is actually the place the look for your router.

      * First I had to figure out my router would only run with the bleeding edge daily builds. Then I was trying to setup using local storage on router's USB port(s) then I was trying to get tftp-hpa configured, then I was trying to make the local storage/tftp daemon start/stop with a button press. Too much to ask I guess. Probably a little different if I had only wanted router functionality.

      --
      "UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
    5. Re:OpenWRT by markhahn · · Score: 2

      yes, if you want to do fringe things that no one else in the community is interested in, then a community-supported system is a bad choice. surprise!

    6. Re:OpenWRT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OpenWRT rules !

      For hardware, I like the WRT-160NL , TL-WR1043ND or TL-WDR4300 (which has simultaneous 2.4 & 5 GHz)

    7. Re:OpenWRT by RR · · Score: 1

      ... the wiki is outdated/inaccurate/contradictory (often on the same page) ... I was exploring DDWRT at one point and that documentation said OpenWRT packages will work with DDWRT. ... * First I had to figure out my router would only run with the bleeding edge daily builds. Then I was trying to setup using local storage on router's USB port(s) then I was trying to get tftp-hpa configured, then I was trying to make the local storage/tftp daemon start/stop with a button press.

      Even if you could install OpenWRT packages in DD-WRT, I find OpenWRT to be more flexible because it leaves more storage space free. Seriously, I find no need for 3 hotspot daemons, 2 DynDNS clients and 6 different VPNs in my router.

      But I'm strange. I started using Linux for routers back before WiFi routers were invented. I'm comfortable with downloading the source and using Kconfig to remove unnecessary features, such as the GUI and the web server, so I could have space for stuff that matters to me. (IPv6 and DNSSEC, ooh la la.) If you're stuck, then the source is the documentation. I'm sure it's possible to hack up whatever script you want to have running when you press the buttons.

      --
      Have a nice time.
    8. Re:OpenWRT by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      I run a TP-Link WR1043ND with DD-WRT 24b21061. I went to the DD-WRT homepage, I entered my devices model number, and returned was a well presented list of three firmwares: factory-to-DDRWT, webrevert (back to stock, for warranty return), and the latest update ROM for devices already on DD-WRT. I also found easy to follow instructions on flashing the firmware.

      You may be a little butthurt, or I may have been lucky.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    9. Re:OpenWRT by SkunkPussy · · Score: 1

      Still, there's the historic GPL violations in that project...

      --
      SURELY NOT!!!!!
    10. Re:OpenWRT by SkunkPussy · · Score: 1

      My TP-LINK router worked immediately with OpenWRT. Going for bleeding edge daily builds is pretty risky TBH; I am not sure I would have done that myself.

      --
      SURELY NOT!!!!!
    11. Re:OpenWRT by keith_nt4 · · Score: 1

      There was enough interest to write a wiki about it (button press event). And Linux is Linux. A TFTP daemon should be trivial to setup. Beyond trivial. "Just use the DNSMasq TFTP deamon" would have been much snarkier/more accurate reply. And what? Linux seeing a mounted USB storage device is beyond the scope of...linux? Really? None of what I described are in any way "fringe" and all those things individually are covered in wiki, albeit inaccurate/incomplete.

      And if it's useful to anybody the router is an Asus RT-N16. Several years old, says "works with DD-WRT" ont he actual box but still only supported in the daily builds with limited documention in this main forum thread.

      --
      "UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
  7. Consider a Microtik Router? by mysqlbytes · · Score: 5, Informative

    I recently got a Microtik router running RouterOS, and I have to say I love it functionality at it's price point. Even supports BGP if you are that way inclined. My DSL was annoying me, so I turned it to bridged mode, and now the new router does everything else. NAT seems faster, with pings being 3ms quicker which I was astonished at. My other idea was an old desktop running linux, but I worked out the pricing for hardware vs electricity. And within a year (in Ireland) I am going to save money with the Microtik router. The router uses about 7W fully loaded, whereas my desktop would be churning 250 watts fully loaded... This is my one: http://routerboard.com/RB2011UAS-2HnD-IN

    1. Re:Consider a Microtik Router? by ezdiy · · Score: 1

      I love MikroTik as much as nearly any other eastern european do - the gui/cli is just plain awesome and dumb proof - even people unfamiliar with networking are able to pick it up quickly, compared to the "horrors" of linux routers or cisco-cli.

      Sadly, your point is somewhat moot - AR9132 chipset of RB2011UAS is just home ap SoC and that is it. Routing performance is generally god-awful to make any use of BGP or OSPF. People generally just buy high-end RBs or run routeros on PC to do any kind of ISP networking.

      RouterOS comfort comes at a price too - it is just linux kernel inside, but 3 years outdated, undebuggable corner cases etc etc. It works ok most of the time, but only very brave people are running eBGP on RouterOS or any core backbone for that matter. Wiping low-end routerboard and installing openwrt there won't help much either - people do that all the time with the very same SoC chipset, from tplink, edimax etc plastic boxes which come 30% cheaper and are the same utter crap reliability-wise (usually PSUs).

    2. Re:Consider a Microtik Router? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's Mikrotik, not Microtik, and yes, they're fucking uber.

      I use dozens of Mikrotik RouterBoards (and Ubiquity Networks) to build mesh networks for large festivals (10k+ guests, 100s of crew), and I don't think anything else would allow me to get things setup in time or on cost.

      I also use fitPCs (Atom N270, 1.6GHz, 1GB, 4.5~9W) and IntensePCs (Core i7, 2.8GHz, 4GB, passively cooled, 27W) when a Routerboard doesn't have the performance I need, or I need to run a complete Linux system.

      At home I use a fitPC2i with a 1TB HDD, and a Ralink 802.11n card, at maximum 9W power, and serving as a border router, email server, application/shell server, and file server, it works out far more efficient than having a separate AP, and the performance is excellent with hostapd, over 200Mbps with RSN-CCMP. At the other end of the house I have a RB411-AH, with an Atheros 11n NIC, wired ethernet bridging between the two, but I find it to be a little slow when running RSN-CCMP.

      For the events I operate at, the RB433 and RB411 are my main workhorses, as the edge APs are generally configured to low-rate for reliability and for want of higher trunk capacity, and the trunk APs run WEP, as everything between the client APs and the peering point is L2TP over IPsec from the CAP. The WEP is not for security, just to say "hey don't connect to me" and avoid nuisance traffic on the channels. At the peering point I run Linux on Slackware on an IntensePC, and I aggregate and control the traffic from the CAPs on a L2TP link-by-link basis. We only provide connectivity to crew, as providing access to 10k ~ 50k event goers is infeasible now that every man and his dog has a smartphone with wifi. At least until someone pays me enough to by hundreds more APs and dozens of 18/60/70GHz Gbps Ubiquity radios, and can hookup a 10Gbps fiber uplink.

    3. Re:Consider a Microtik Router? by auzy · · Score: 1

      Not sure if it is a common issue, but I have an atheros wifi card in mine, and I always found routerOS to be terrible for Wifi performance (we were getting 2MB/s over Mikrotik in bridge mode on wifi, compared to a cheap TPLink which was giving us 12, and less dropouts). Sorry, I wouldn't recommend the Mikrotik for Wifi. The software is really cool though (and, it might be better for PTP than as an AP).

      And, I wouldn't recommend a computer either (its a maintenance nightmare at the end. Its really cool having stuff like Etherape, but, in practice, a router is better). Honestly, unless you really need the management features, you'd be far better off getting a cheap router, and an AP..

    4. Re:Consider a Microtik Router? by Samizdata · · Score: 1

      Not sure if it is a common issue, but I have an atheros wifi card in mine, and I always found routerOS to be terrible for Wifi performance (we were getting 2MB/s over Mikrotik in bridge mode on wifi, compared to a cheap TPLink which was giving us 12, and less dropouts). Sorry, I wouldn't recommend the Mikrotik for Wifi. The software is really cool though (and, it might be better for PTP than as an AP).

      And, I wouldn't recommend a computer either (its a maintenance nightmare at the end. Its really cool having stuff like Etherape, but, in practice, a router is better). Honestly, unless you really need the management features, you'd be far better off getting a cheap router, and an AP..

      My old Smoothwall box was completely hands off, except for upgrades and my inescapable urge to tinker on things.

      --
      It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage. - Colonel Henry Walton Jones, Jr., Ph.D.
  8. Fix possible? by jones_supa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My wireless router just died.

    Well, can it be fixed? Maybe it's just a dead AC/DC transformer or blown cap.

    1. Re:Fix possible? by module0000 · · Score: 1

      Best post yet! if you want to be DIY - then put on your big boy pants and DIY. Kudos to jones_supa

      --
      Trackball users will be first against the wall.
    2. Re:Fix possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cudos!

      I had number of AC/DC and DC/DC power supplies failed over the time, and they are easy to repair/replace. Note that small 8-ping power regulators also tend to die, with "smoke came out" sign (small hole) on them. They tend to be hard to find, but easy to salvage from another unit.

      If you like using your old notebook better, replace the HDD with CF and install pFsense or OpenWRT. Both can be set up to work in flash drive, but save youreselft som e trouble, and do not use USB flash drives for primary disk (but for log is ok).
      Both pFsense and OpenWRT are rock solid, and not-so-hard to tinker with. Mikrotik is cheap but not open.

      That is from my 10-year experience.

  9. Just get a router by SQLGuru · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Using an old laptop as a router isn't the most efficient use of your resources (time, money, energy, etc.). Sure, it can be done......but a router can be had for around $20 that is probably as good or better (I'm assuming your old laptop is at least 5 years old and probably G at best). Spending more would get you a better router (and if you shop around, even open-source compatible), but if the goal is to go on the cheap (assumed because you want to reuse a laptop), I'd still get a stand-alone router.

    But if you insist on going that route, go with Linux and manual configuration. Then you can use the laptop for other things as well. Print server, web server, etc.

    But in the end, giving the laptop to a group such as this: http://www.interconnection.org/ is better use of the technology.

    1. Re:Just get a router by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TRUE.

      As above, Dealnews has spotlighted a new $30 router and a new $20 router. Recently, there was even one for $15. If you watch long enough, there will even be deals for about $5. Unless "anonymous reader" can set his old hw up and get it online in less than 10 minutes, its simply not worth the time it takes. Considering all the fine expert posts here, this jerkoff's broken router has already "cost" hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars (in five man-minute increments). I sure wish ask.slashdot had a FAQ that told new users to stop posting these kind of questions. The age of repurposing old but still functioning hardware passed when hardware got cheap... because time is only getting more expensive.

    2. Re:Just get a router by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Recently, there was even one for $15

      BAM! $15 wireless n router.

  10. OpenWRT on Buffalo Hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It comes with their own DD-WRT firmware, but I personally prefer OpenWRT.

  11. Don't use a netbook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's a bad idea to use a netbook from the perspective of power consumption. Compared to a dedicated system (often ARM or MIPS), a netbook's going to suck up a lot of power that could be better put to other uses. I'd personally suggest getting a commercially-available router that's well-supported by OpenWRT, such as a Netgear WNDR3800.

    If you must use this netbook, then your best options are probably OpenBSD or Debian (stable), depending on hardware support and what you're comfortable with.

    1. Re:Don't use a netbook by jones_supa · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually it's not that bad. A netbook idles at 10W, which is on par with the power consumption of a DSL modem.

    2. Re:Don't use a netbook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if you really need/have/plan to use the netbook, well there's nothing like Debian (stable). I used it on my Slug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSLU2 successfully for 7 years and it served me well.
      On my routers I use OpenWRT

  12. OpenWRT on good commodity home ap by ezdiy · · Score: 4, Informative

    OpenWRT on cheapo commodity hardware - personally I'm using TL-WR1043ND, 4x1gigE/300mbps 2.4ghz N, USB storage is best bang for 50 bucks.

    The system is reasonably specced to run openvpn gateway for home network and serve USB drive miniNAS via smb.

    DD-WRT is basically GUI polish for people who don't wan't to delve into scary command line, but otherwise nowhere near as flexible as openwrt is.

    1. Re:OpenWRT on good commodity home ap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OpenWRT (for x86 at least) has Web GUI built-in. I installed 12.09RC2 yesterday.

    2. Re:OpenWRT on good commodity home ap by robot5x · · Score: 1

      +1 to this, except I'm using the gargoyle build on my tp-link.

      the features on it are amazing - I have a lodger who wants to use my whole data allowance in a single day. I set gargoyle to cap his usage at x GB per month, and once it's hit he gets 32kbps. I could have set it to kick him off the lan completely but I'm a nice guy.

      Not quite as nerdy as OP requested but cost $50 and damn it just works

      --
      Hej! Nasi tu byli!
    3. Re:OpenWRT on good commodity home ap by datapharmer · · Score: 1

      Yes, I've used both DD-WRT and OpenWRT and agree the TL-WR1043ND is a great little device especially for the price. I've bought, configured an used quite a few. Occasionally you get a dud, but you will know pretty quickly and just RMA it to newegg or amazon.

      On the DD-WRT vs OpenWRT front, OpenWRT is definitely the more up-to-date option, but my biggest problem, with it is lack of QoS and bandwidth control out of the box. Sure, there are plenty of scripts and such available for this, but I'd like to get up and on the internet and not be writing scripts and messing around with a 'project'. I plan to reevaluate tomato next time for this very reason.

      --
      Get a web developer
    4. Re:OpenWRT on good commodity home ap by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Using DD-WRT myself on the same hardware, for exactly the same thing. Uploaded photos to the NAS device from my phone during a recent holiday, worked without a hitch.

      I'd like to know what you mean by "nowhere near as flexible" though, as I can't think of anything I want to do on my home network router that I can't do through the GUI (QoS, granular port forwarding, comprehensive monitoring and logging, VPN client).

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    5. Re:OpenWRT on good commodity home ap by ezdiy · · Score: 1

      Anything you can't do in GUI.
      Agreed, both DD-WRT and OpenWRT GUI can pretty much do the same thing, and I did recommend DD-WRT to amateur users in the past as it appeared to be somewhat more consumer focused.

      Like custom samba settings. Or just want to use stuff which is up to date, not 3 years old binaries. Or openvpn server with authentication against remote ldap database. Geeky stuff. Scary, scary command line :)

      Optware stuff falls a bit short in that regard, mainly because I want the router functioning without unreliable external storage and it is basically just a hack - making custom DD-WRT is messy (FMK? really?). Openwrt supports baking images nicely from day 1 using buildroot.

  13. OpenWRT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OpenWRT is an alternative to DD-WRT

  14. transmit power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you probably won't get the same signal amplification as with a dedicated wireless router wireless signal amplifier, it can reflect on your wireless coverage.

  15. pfsense by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

    I'm using an atom cpu with several onboard intel gig-e ports.

    fanless and has been pretty reliable so far. my 50mbps cable connection stays up and the 'router' has not needed rebooting in the month or two that I've been using it so far.

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  16. Overkill? by kheldan · · Score: 3, Informative

    In my opinion: Unless you're planning on also running servers (web, FTP, mail, etc) on your new "router/access point", then it's complete overkill to use even a netbook for that. Additionally, you'd be potentially opening yourself up to a world of hurt since your netbook, being a general-purpose computing device at heart, is going to be more vulnerable to outside attack than a purpose-built router/gateway/wireless access point.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:Overkill? by fa2k · · Score: 2

      Overkill isn't a problem in itself. It's not like the extra power is doing any harm.

      Additionally, you'd be potentially opening yourself up to a world of hurt since your netbook, being a general-purpose computing device at heart, is going to be more vulnerable to outside attack than a purpose-built router/gateway/wireless access point.

      How exactly? The software packages in the summary are specially designed for routing. It's not like the S/W becomes more vulnerable just by running on a faster CPU

    2. Re:Overkill? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once he get the router going, he may very well want to run services on it. After all, it will always be up and running.

      General-purpose is not more vulnerable. If all he runs on it is router software, it will not be any more vulnerable than other routers. (No need to have any general purpose software on the old pc when it is recycled as a router). If he run services he get the vulnerabilities of a server, but he'll get that with a dedicated server too.

      There is nothing magically vulnerable about "a pc". It is all in the software. Without windows, none of the vulnerabilities that plague windows and cause people to think that "PCs are vulnerable to viruses". Run a router OS, be as safe as any other router. Hacking it might still be possible - but it is equally possible to hack a dedicated router too. It happens from time to time.

    3. Re:Overkill? by kheldan · · Score: 1

      How, exactly?

      I believe I addressed that already: Because it's a general-purpose computing device, and in spite of all the precautions you can take with it, it's still vulnerable to exploits that can take control of it and cause it to run an attacker's code. It being connected directly to the public Internet increases that threat.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    4. Re:Overkill? by fa2k · · Score: 1

      My point was that the routers you buy don't have the routing logic implemented in hardware -- it's just your standard ARM (or MIPS?) system on a chip, running BSD or linux and software like dnsmasq. Some routers may have more "embedded" style OSes than that, but with all the functionality they're putting into the new ones, I think many need an advanced OS. (The backbone and ISP routers have more custom hardware). While non-x86 systems are more secure for the same reason that non-Windows systems are more secure, i.e. market share, I don't think it makes a difference on the routers. What could make a difference is storage: on hardware routers it's harder to store new (malicious) code, and there may be more places to hide things on a full laptop (so you do have a point)

    5. Re:Overkill? by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Unless they have hardware exploits I'm unaware of, they present exactly the same attack vectors based on the software installed. If you're running a Linux-based router, it'll have the same vector profile as a Linux-based PC router.

      Since embedded devices frequently are far behind the update curve, they can actually present far more of a risk than a PC-based router.

  17. Power consumption by pla · · Score: 3, Informative

    Keep in mind that while a dedicated consumer-grade wifi router draws around 5W, a netbook will draw 20-25W (possibly more).

    Although that may not sound like much, a 24/7 load of 20W, at $0.15/KWH will cost you $2.16/month. You will break even vs just buying a low-end (Rosewill, etc) new router in about 10 months, or two years for a mid-consumer-grade LinkSys/DLink.

    Admittedly, your solution will give you just about the highest-end wireless router you can get (limited by the radio in your netbook, of course), theoretically supporting any networking feature available with Linux. In practice though, how often do you really need anything beyond WPA2, IPv4 routing with a basic "block everything except what I allow" firewall, and perhaps (if you use VPN a lot) IPSec support?

    1. Re:Power consumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This argument about Money in the form of cost of electricity is only half the story: How valuable is your time? I live in Ontario, Canada. Where minimum wage is $10.25 per hour, if it takes you 10 hours in research, collecting parts, install time and troubleshooting, that $102.50. If your really lucky, and get the perfect answer here on Slashdot, and download the ready to use software, and minimum troubleshooting/setup could take 4 hours, that's still $40.

      Adding the difference in electricity over a year, you can go out and get a high end consumer router and still be in the green.

      If you really need some high end features, you can pick up used Cisco 2600 routers on Ebay for as little as $50, it will be a little more playing around then a consumer router, but still cheaper than building/running a home made one.

    2. Re:Power consumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep in mind that while a dedicated consumer-grade wifi router draws around 5W, a netbook will draw 20-25W (possibly more).

      A consumer grade router will probably draw more than 5W, a netbook will probably draw around 10W, maybe more under load (but a running as a router isn't going to tax a netbook).

    3. Re:Power consumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you really need some high end features, you can pick up used Cisco 2600 routers on Ebay for as little as $50, it will be a little more playing around then a consumer router, but still cheaper than building/running a home made one.

      This man is lying to you; under no circumstances should you do this. The weeks of your time you will waste failing to configure those abominations are better spent elsewhere. You could spend the equivalent amount of time attempting to give colonoscopies to enraged badgers and still get more done with fewer scars.

  18. Tomato by PlasmaEye · · Score: 2

    I use a build of Tomato by Shibby on my Asus "Black Knight" RT-N66U . It has tons of features and is easy to setup. You could also try some of the other Tomato builds.

    http://tomatousb.org/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato_(firmware)

    1. Re:Tomato by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      I have one of the supported Asus with AC onboard. So far I've not felt the need to switch to Tomato although I've used it previously on a WRT54G. So far the features I've found have worked fine and the router hasn't disappointed. Can you tell me what new or different features you found in Tomato to warrant switching? I've already got a VPN solution, I don't need a NAS, this isn't a primary firewall for my network nor do I need to use any sort of dynamic DNS from it. Mostly so far it's just an AP, albeit one I hope is stronger than the WEP I was having to use on the WRT :-O

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    2. Re:Tomato by PlasmaEye · · Score: 1

      I have one of the supported Asus with AC onboard. So far I've not felt the need to switch to Tomato although I've used it previously on a WRT54G. So far the features I've found have worked fine and the router hasn't disappointed. Can you tell me what new or different features you found in Tomato to warrant switching? I've already got a VPN solution, I don't need a NAS, this isn't a primary firewall for my network nor do I need to use any sort of dynamic DNS from it. Mostly so far it's just an AP, albeit one I hope is stronger than the WEP I was having to use on the WRT :-O

      I would say based on what you said, there is no need to upgrade to Tomato. I use it to host a free wireless internet AP that is separate from my LAN, an SSH tunnel for some unfiltered internet for my work, a remote computer starter when I need to remote in on vacation or otherwise. I've also become accustomed to its interface so that when I switched from a WRT54GL to the RT-N66U, I instantly loaded Tomato just so I didn't lose familiarity.

  19. I think you mean free as in freedom... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Not Open Source.

    1. Re:I think you mean free as in freedom... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, that's an important distinction. The submitter probably does not intend to modify the software and thus need the source.

  20. OpenWRT by aglider · · Score: 1

    I only buy hardware where OpenWRT can run. With USD 50.- you can buy a TP-Link box and get a great router later on.

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
  21. Beat bufferbloat while routing by billakay · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Look at the CeroWRT project (http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt). They have a fork of OpenWRT that is kept up to date quite often, and includes a lot of fixes for bufferbloat issues. The firmware gives a very low latency experience with very little effort.

  22. Recommendation for ClearOS by Lacrocivious+Acropho · · Score: 2

    You could do worse than take a look at http://www.clearfoundation.com/ and the community edition of ClearOS.

    In my opinion it provides Cisco-like capability on any old PC you have lying around. That old PC almost certainly has more power and capability than any typical end-user-grade router in the $30 to $120 market.

    Disclaimer: I have no relationship with ClearFoundation except that of a user since 2003.

    --
    Twice as crazy as I would be if I was half as crazy as I am.
  23. If you're not afraid of getting your hands dirty.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..you can start with Google!

  24. Use hostapd and Debian or Ubuntu by freddieb · · Score: 1

    I have tried what you suggest using both Ubuntu and Debian. I used one of the AR5212/AR5213 HP pci cards however if your laptop will work in the master mode you should be able to use it. I also have a Mikrotik router as someone else suggested. The hostapd solution is not as good as the Mikrotik even though I both are running high power. In my case it is probably the antenna placement. There are plenty of hostapd howto's on the net. wlan0 IEEE 802.11bg Mode:Master Tx-Power=27 dBm Retry long limit:7 RTS thr:off Fragment thr:off Power Management:on

  25. NetBSD by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    OP talks about FreeBSD and OpenBSD but not NetBSD, while it is as relevant as the other alternatives. Not better, nor worse, IMO: they are all capable.

  26. Re:If you're not afraid of getting your hands dirt by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

    How do you think he just found Slashdot? This site isn't one that you just accidentally type. ;^)

    --
    If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  27. low maintenance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "but I want as close to zero maintenance as possible.""
    That means just go buy a cheap appliance WiFi router for $30.
    If nothing else, you'll spend more on electricity running whatever it is you were planning on doing with a netbook than the cost of the new router.

    And really, off the shelf routers are pretty maintenance free. The 3 or 4 linksys and other brand routers I've got laying around have been essentially maintenance free for 3-5 years. When they fail, I throw them away.

    On the other hand, if you want to use this as a learning experience, then, by all means delve into it. If you want a real challenge, do it in Win7 or Vista (or Win 8), and you can learn all about the intricacies of the "netsh" command.

  28. My router is in a VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I run pfSense in a VM under ESXi and it works flawlessly. I figured since I have a server on 24/7, there was no need to add the power overhead of another box. I'm pretty sure pfSense in a VM consumes less than the 5W that a consumer router might consume.

  29. OpenBSD - compact base + up to date PF! by badger.foo · · Score: 1

    My money is on OpenBSD for projects like this. You get very compact base system that still has all the stuff you need in there for a project like this. And even my old PF tutorial has enough info to get you up and running.

    But with the man pages and the OpenBSD FAQ you really have all the information you need at your fingertips.

    --
    -- That grumpy BSD guy - http://bsdly.blogspot.com/
    1. Re:OpenBSD - compact base + up to date PF! by interval1066 · · Score: 1

      The BSD's pf (or packet filter) is the best stateful packet inspection-style firewall, bar none. I'll go to my grave knowing this; but it is difficult to master the many configuration options. Luckily there are lots configuration examples and I like its flat, one config file style of doing it, like most BSD utils. If you really want to use BSD as your firewall software I would grab the latest rel. of OpenBSD, fire up pf, and play with it for a bit, see if it might work for you. On the other hand, after years of using a spare pc running that to do my firewall/NAT/cached name serving, and replacing hard drvies and upgrading and installing this and that I gave it all up for a netgear firewall/router for under $50 and never looked back.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    2. Re:OpenBSD - compact base + up to date PF! by carlhaagen · · Score: 1

      The "only" problem - and not really a little one - with OpenBSD for the specific purpose of acting as a wireless access point is that the state of its 802.11 drivers and stack is far from desirable.

      First and foremost, there are currently only two WiFi chipsets worth looking at in the case of being used in "Host AP" mode on OpenBSD, and both of them have problems: the athn(4) driver for the Atheros family of chipsets is the only 802.11 driver in OpenBSD that supports powersaving clients when in Host AP mode - and believe me, this is very important for the routers' quality of service - but it suffers some as-of-yet resolved problem causing a notable amount of transmission errors for UDP traffic (no problems with TCP traffic, though). The ral(4) driver supporting the Ralink family of chipsets DOES NOT support powersaving clients currently, and it's a major problem, but the ral(4) driver is otherwise perfect, and in my personal experience the Ralink chipsets have the absolutely best signal quality, lowest transmission latency and least problems with signal distortion of all WiFi hardware I've used.

      Secondly, there is the smaller problem of OpenBSD's 802.11 stack not yet having 11n support. For most users, me included, this won't matter at all.

      I've been using OpenBSD profesionally and personally at home for about 14 years now, of which the past 7 years it has seen use in mine and friends' homes as a home router, often with WiFi capabilities. The OS itself is excellent for this and I'm most pleased with it for this particular purpose, but the 802.11 drivers' current state is plain and simply underdeveloped.

      My advice to the original poster, or anyone else who is considering OpenBSD for a WiFi router, is to go with a card supported by the ral(4) driver ( incomplete device list here: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=ral&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=OpenBSD+Current&arch=i386&format=html ), and try to live with the problems of lacking support for powersaving clients, or work around them by either disabling PSM on your clients if this is possible, or preventing the client devices' 802.11 chip from entering PSM. I've been using a ral(4) device for my OpenBSD router for a bit more than 5 years now, and, despite of its problems, it's for the moment definitely a better choice than an athn(4) device.

  30. I have tried Tomato and DD-WRT by wisnoskij · · Score: 0

    And about 12 hours after installing Tomato I installed DD-WRT over it.

    DD-WRT is pretty sweet. It just works, is easy to set up, with a very easy and comprehensive website, but it also has loads of, well documented, advanced features.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  31. Openwrt by hdru · · Score: 1

    I would buy a router, for instance TP-Link TL-WR1043ND, and install openwrt on it. Why this combo?? Because the router is well supported by openwrt, not expensive and for little power consumption you get a wide-range of possibilities. You can do lots of stuff with it if you connect a usb http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/extroot, for instance: create a rsyncd server and connect to it through ssh (replacement for dropbox and the like), create a voip server, printer server, webserver, torrent downloader(rtorrent and rutorrent), rss reader (ttrss), distributed social networking, etc. I am only running an rsyncd server, rtorrent and a webserver and it is running ok. For simple things a pc server is overkill and expensive to run. http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start .

  32. Hardware router vs laptop by fa2k · · Score: 3, Informative

    Many people say to get a router instead because of power consumption, wireless signal strength and stability.

    You have to work out the power use yourself (some figures have already been posted by pla). Keep in mind though that a laptop using 20 W also provides 20 W of heating. If you're in a hot climate, you may lose twice by having to run the AC harder. If in a cold climate, with electric (resistive) heating, the 20 W may essentially be free most of the year. Also, if you can eliminate other devices (like a VPN gateway) with the laptop, that could be a win. On the other hand, if you need wired network it seems you can't even get away with an extra switch, as the laptop doesn't have enough ports -- here the dedicated ones clearly win.

    The wireless signal can be tested. If you can boot a live-cd you could set up host AP mode and test speed by transferring data and latency with ping.

    The stability is hard to gauge. Both netbooks and consumer routers can be quite bad. I ran a Dell Insiron 1501 as a router for a few years and didn't have any problems (except a ExpressCard NIC, which was later replaced).

    I wouldnt' go for the laptop due to not having wired network, but otherwise I would definitely pick it. It's great for hosting small DIY services like a webcam. I wouldn't host internal-only services beyond those typically hosted on routers, for security reasons (e.g. if the webserver first binds to the local interface, then after an update binds to both interfaces).

    1. Re:Hardware router vs laptop by fa2k · · Score: 1

      I ran a Dell Insiron 1501 as a router for a few years and didn't have any problems (except a ExpressCard NIC, which was later replaced).

      So I can actually reply to your real question, sorry I forgot about that:

      -- On the Dell I used Fedora. Not recommended. Too many updates and the configuration system is constantly in flux. Apart from that, it did the job perfectly.

      -- OpenWRT. Seems good, has its own package manager. I used it on a TP-Link access point to provide advanced network services including an IPv6 tunnel. It was not stable on the TP-Link, so I don't have much experience (would become unresponsive after about ~ 1 week). Seems like the thing you can "set and forget".

      -- Debian (rasbian). I then used a Raspberry Pi as an advanced inverse access point, to access a wireless LAN and create a small subnet for my own computers. The hardware wasn't stellar, but the OS could be configured fine to do 1:1 NAT, as well as providing DNS with BIND, NTP, and support short-term DIY projects. A bit more updates than I'd prefer, but I suppose I could have left it alone and it would be fine. I wouldn't use Linux without any additional software if the main purpose is NAT and routing; too much work to set up. My setup was actually simpler than the standard home router stuff, except for BIND.

  33. A networked hard drive changes things by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1

    So far the comments are advising that you replace your router with another stand-alone router that car run open firmware, and I agree. But the calculation is different if you want to run an always-available hard disk on your network. You see, consumer routers sometimes have a USB port, but the bandwidth of the USB connection is so atrocious that it's almost unusable. You'd be lucky if you had access to 1/10 of the theoretical USB2 bandwidth. This is where homebrew routers excel. Any normal-ish motherboard - even for Atom - has a proper USB2 and SATA interface, which will actually work close to its rated speed. You could probably even hardhack the SATA on your netbook to connect to a full-sized drive. If you screen is off, I don't think that your power usage will be much higher than a router's. Mine uses about 8W, pretty much 24/7. Most likely, it broadcasts a stronger signal that what your netbook can do, but remember that you can buy a USB2 network adapter if you need to improve the connection strength.

  34. OpenBSD every time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have run an openbsd firewall for the last 2 years. For 18 months I did nothing to it, and never needed to. It was SO RELIABLE, I forgot what version was running and how it was set up. The last 6 months I have been rebuilding the network, and all the new stuff is running a either openbsd and freebsd, but the router and firewall is always openbsd.

  35. pfsense by nurb432 · · Score: 2

    Hands down the best choice for commodity hardware where you it it to 'just work' once its setup.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  36. DIY buyer beware. by nimbius · · Score: 1

    there are several reasons why i outsource my wireless to a dedicated piece of off-the-shelf hardware that connects to a linux router. pci and USB cards have poor support and arent really suited for the task. for example:

    open source ralink 802.11g chipsets in TPLink and other wireless cards have a sleep mode bug that causes the access point to disappear when using hostapd in the 3.10 kernel..its been a bug for quite a while. the AP cannot be recovered until the cards module is reloaded. in some cases, this cannot be recovered from until the machine is rebooted. the card isnt stable after suspend from ram either.

    one more issue is Windows clients. if you have Vista users, they can usually connect to your pci/usb hostapd card. if you have windows 7/8 users the chances of them being able to connect and acquire a DHCP address is going to be spotty. they will randomly lose association as well. Ive never fully determined why some netlink USB adapters in windows 7 require multiple attempts to get on a hostapd network.

    next up: antenna gain. the little antennas shipped with PCI cards in my experience are miserable. you'll want a dedicated 9db antenna of at least 6" in length, just like your linksys routers have. Even then checking the signal strength you'll notice a pretty decent lack of power. expect the problem to be worse with USB based solutions as voltage is pretty restricted. so is USB bandwidth:if you have more than 1-2 users on the wireless at a time, you can expect performance to be wretched.

    This all having been said, I cant speak for newer wireless pci cards... id be curious to see how newer wireless N cards perform. are multiple SSID's supported? is there a chipset requirement that virtual SSID's be specially constructed to match virtual mac addresses in a specific means? for example again, Realtek and Broadcom chips do require, among firmware requirements in the latter, that virtual SSIDs are mapped to hexidecimally sequential MAC's and even then, Realtek will often times simply ignore other SSIDs its supposed to advertise.

    My suggestion, and what as a network engineer ive used at home: linux router with a dedicated TPLink access point(s). I know, the point is wireless but here we really only want it for the excellent transciever(s) that maintain affinity with clients across a broad range of guest operating systems and provide uniform signal coverage in a predictable radiation pattern from the dipole antennas. you also open up the possibility of 48v PoE, so running access points looks cleaner if you're putting them across the house and in the yard. Finally, vlan capability and multiple SSID are affordable and quite functional should you need it.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  37. gargoyle more stable than dd-wrt (for me) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had dd-wrt running on my linksys e3200 sharing internet from the office to the main house. Not stable at all.

    Later I swapped for a cheap TP-link router running gargoyle to extend my range. It has been really stable. So happy with it.

  38. Easy method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Super simple:

    If you are using Windows, Windows: download and install the $13 Thinix WiFi Hotspot app at http://thinix.com/product.asp?p=A6A97DBA-E3F7-4906-BB9F-DFEDF12B8236. Launch it and click on the Configure tab. Set the name of your wireless hotspot in the SSID field. Add a password in the Wireless Key field and hit save. Hit the large Start Hotspot button at the top of the app’s window and get ready to share your internet connection.

    NOTE: Thinx works on most versions of Windows 7 or Windows 8, but does not work on:

    Windows XP
    Windows Vista
    Windows 7 Starter Edition

    The same thing is even easier on Macintosh:
      Launch System Preferences and click on Share. Select Internet Sharing from the list on the left. Set the “Share your connection from” ethernet or in the case of a MacBook Air, USB ethernet. Set the type of shared networking to wireless under “To computers using” by checking Wi-Fi. Click on the Wi-Fi Options button and a window will appear to set your network’s name and password. Once those are set, hit ok.

    Now turn on Internet Sharing and you’ll be able to log into your newly created Wi-Fi network from all your tablets, smartphones, and media streamers.

  39. CeroWRT by ad1c · · Score: 1

    I'm a fan of Cero-WRT: http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt Works well with Netgear routers (a couple of models) and my wireless links stay up for weeks on end.

  40. OpenWRT AP - PfSense edge router by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would highly recommend the WNDR3800 running OpenWRT 12.04. You will be very happy with it's coverage,performance etc.

    A low end "net top" system running PfSense will be great for routing/VPN etc. You can also speak BGP/OSPF etc with it. You'll need beefy specs if you want to do IDS with it.

    I also have a Cisco Layer 3 switch. My network looks like this

    WAN01
    |
    |
    |
    CORESW01 (cisco 3750-pwr24)
    |
    |
    |
    AP01
    |
    |
    Printer/wifi clients/Moca adapter for my TiVO boxes

    I have a bunch of other development lab systems hung off the core switch. Everything is run as layer3 between the devices.

  41. PFsense hands down by funkboy · · Score: 1

    PFsense is really at a professional level since 2.0 was released. I've had it on a little box with a Zotac AMD mobo with a 2 port Intel NIC for a couple of years and it's really fantastic. The GUI gives you access to all the knobs you need and the concept of converting all unix config files to one giant XML bundle really works for an embedded router platform. I've got a pretty complex setup & I'm pretty sure I could install & restore the whole thing & its half-dozen packages to a new box in less than half an hour if I had to.

    1. Re:PFsense hands down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      installing it on an ibm x series 3250 unfortunately does not work while the hardware runs freebsd without a problem. also, getting a rootshell was tricky. if it worked on my hardware i would probably give it another go.

  42. Hybrid; use a router as a wifi bridge by Khopesh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've done this in the past. My routing computer's wifi has never been able to compare with a wifi router, but if you ignore the "wan" port and plug your linux box into one of the other ports, you can use the wifi router for wifi only (essid, etc) and your own router for how traffic flows to the internet and to your wired network. The best of both worlds.

    --
    Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
  43. CODING HORROR had a great blog post by lemur337 · · Score: 1

    about this a year ago. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/06/because-everyone-still-needs-a-router.html

    I followed the advice there and flashed an ASUS RT-N16 ($70 when I bought it. Maybe less now.) with easytomato firmware. The name says it all. I especially love the wireless print server. I believe easytomato works on the expensive dual band ASUS routers as well but haven't tried it personally.

  44. Utilizing "extra" IP addresses by nuckfuts · · Score: 2

    I pay for 2 static IP addresses from my ISP, but using OpenBSD I can actually use 4. Here's how it works:

    1. * DSL router is in bridge mode. (Routing and NAT are handled by my OpenBSD box)
    2. * My ISP assigns me a /30 subnet. Normally this would mean only 2 "useable" IP addresses because 1 would be used for the default gateway and 1 for the broadcast address. Instead, all 4 IP addresses are added as aliases to the PPPoE interface.
    3. * NAT is performed using pf. (In my case, I have multiple internal LAN's, each one NAT'd to a different external address).

    OpenBSD with pf makes a fantastic router/firewall. I'm sure the same thing can be done with other OS's, I just happen to find pf to be very good. OpenBSD's documentation is also great.

    1. Re:Utilizing "extra" IP addresses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds to me as if your ISP assigns you a /29, not a /30. You still have:
      1. A network address (start of range)
      2. A broadcast address (end of range)
      3. A gateway address (i.e. PPPoE interface address)

      So you should have 5 addresses?

      How does your computer/router device get to the PPPoE interface - if you have a /30 - without a gateway address?

      Or maybe the device is just "watching" those /32 addresses, they just happen to all be in a row.

    2. Re: Utilizing "extra" IP addresses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My Sonic.net link gives me a /29 with 8 usable ips. The dsl modem is just a bridge and the ISPs router at bla.bla.bla.1 is the route to the net. That means that traffic between my public machines interfaces may go over my DSL modem to be dropped at the other end (not sure how smart it is/can be in that situation), but the local switch handles the real back and forth...

  45. pfSense and OpenWRT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As far as 3rd party firmware for a consumer wireless router goes, I've been most satisfied with OpenWRT. It's actively developed, the package management makes installing add-ones a breeze, the custom firmware builder is great, and I find the UI to be really intuitive.

    Mainly I've been using pfSense for the last 6 months or so, which I'm very happy with. For wireless I still run OpenWRT on a WRT54GL running as an AP only, so I can't really comment on pfSense wireless support. I'm running pfSense in a VM and it doesn't recognize the host wireless card as a wireless card through VirtualBox.

    pfSense is more versatile than the embedded systems. It gets my vote. If the wireless support is lacking you can do what I did and through an "unmanaged" AP on the network.

  46. hostapd is your friend! by DewDude · · Score: 1

    I had a $20 router; you wanna know how reliable it was? I wish I could tell you; because it wasn't. While the wired switch portion wasn't an issue; the wifi-radio loved to overheat and crap out after any real data streaming. Netflix; Slingbox; Youtube; even a Windows Update would cause this $20 router to shut down. I wasn't even using any of the actual router functions (DHCP, Firewall, NAT, etc.); I was merely using it because my ISP supplied router is only capable of 20mhz Wireless-G; which doesn't even come close to my actual line-speed. So I had this old Dell laptop sitting around and a pile of parts. I'd been wanting to make a UPnP based media server with file-sharing capabilities; I figured I'd see if I could make it at least a wifi ap/bridge as well.

    Turns out, to make it a wifi-AP; it wasn't that difficult. The main program you need is hostapd; which will allow you to put the wireless card in master mode. Since I didn't need anything but just a basic wifi access point; it was as simple as creating a network bridge between eth0 and wlan0; and writing a configuration file to make hostapd run the card in infrastructure mode with wireless-n and 40mhz channels. Adding the rest of the required software to get a full router setup didn't seem like much of a chore either; plenty of howtos and tutorials for a bunch of Linux distros will tell you how to do this.

    The only real downside is a netbook probably doesn't have very good wifi antennas; not to mention the wifi card itself probably doesn't output as much as a full router. Not only will I not swear to that; but depending on the card, you can bump up the transmit power. I've been using my laptop to provide wifi and serve music over my network and it's worked great! I get close to 100mbps transfers without the constant shutting down of my cheap router.

    1. Re:hostapd is your friend! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I second this, I have never seen air-rate performance from any consumer wifi AP (with WPA2/RSN and CCMP), then I install hostapd on an Atom N260 (1.6GHz), and holy shit, 200+Mbps operation really is possible (with a good wifi card and 11n). It blew my mind how much faster and more reliable hostapd is than any of the MANY consumer APs I have tested (I do wireless networking for events like music festivals, food festivals, motor races, etc).

      The only APs I have found to be worth using (other than PCs, which are not cost effective) are Mikrotik routers (Running Linux and RouterOS), though the cheaper models don't have the CPU to do air rate wifi with WPA2/RSN, so what I tend to do is run WPA2 on client access channels and IPsec+L2TP over weakly protected WEP channels in the trunk links. WEP is hardware accelerated on pretty much every Wifi NIC, so the trunks are able to operate at air rate, the edge nodes can't run at air-rate, but there is overcommit on the trunks, so it doesn't matter. The only data running over the trunk links is encrypted, the WEP is just to prevent nuisance connections from wasting capacity. At our peering point we have a Linux box running Slackware and l2tpd, which aggregates all the L2TP connections, and also allows us to do traffic accounting to plan and manage our network more efficiently for our clients, who are generally caterers, acts, video bloggers, road crews, press, radio stations etc. Usually we only supply connections to "crew" and not to the general public (who would pretty much immediately overwhelm our network).

  47. ClarkOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've used ClarkOS since its ClarkConnect days. It needs only the barest of system requirements and its dirt easy to set up. Boot off CD or USB and hit enter a few times. The latest versions include an appstore for many of the options, so you have a lot of control over what you install and enable - via a web GUI. Could I do this with any flavor of Linux and iptables? Yes. But this is stupid easy.

  48. was @ same Xroads 6 years ago-havn't touched since by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was using openwrt and has somehow hacked into (week root passwd?), and I gave openbsd in the form of flashrd a shot. It was the best move I could have made. No security vulnerabilities since, and no reason to upgrade. Spend the time getting a nice packet filter configuration, and learn to love not having to search all over the web as you do in the linux world--it's all in a manpage or www.openbsd.org/faq.

    I've since switched my laptop to openbsd, too, and have little maintenance but adequate security. Upgrades are easy, but you only have to worry about them for features, rather than features or security.

  49. Vyatta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Best choice for this is vyatta.

  50. m0n0wall by Trongy · · Score: 1

    Have a look at m0n0wall. It's based on FreeBSD and is configured using a PHP web GUI to configure the NICs and firewall.

    Back in the day I used is as a wireless access point running on a Pentium 1 system with 48 MB RAM, booting off a 16MB compact flash card.

      http://m0n0.ch/wall/

    1. Re: m0n0wall by grc · · Score: 1

      I used m0n0wall for a couple of years and it worked great. The I switched to UNTANGLE for more features and never looked back. It needs a bit more hardware, but not much if it's just a home network.
      And if you need even more features, there is a commercial version. The free one will be more than OK for home use.

  51. Surprised nobody has mentioned IPFire... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IPFire is by far the best solution right now. Functionality is top notch and the features blow anything like smooth wall & pfsense out of the water. ipfire.org is the site!

    1. Re: Surprised nobody has mentioned IPFire... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am a happy IPFire user as well. Easy to setup, lots of features and a package system to add extra functionality. And it's actively maintained by the developers.

      Philipp

  52. Mikrotik is Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use Mikrotik is very more useful that all that trashwireless router that all people here named...
    www.mikrotik.com

  53. vyatta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No recommendations on vyatta? Why not have a proper router OS running? DD-WRT and others are pretty limited

  54. Wired? by General+Anders · · Score: 1

    If you just need your network to work again, you might just consider getting a $5-10 cable off amazon (I'm a sucker for free shipping) or monoprice. You end up with better security, more bandwidth, faster response time, no interference from pesky neighbors, and full duplex. If you have a bunch of computers in one area, you can run one cable to a switch that is by the computers. Of course, you'll still need the wireless eventually for the convenience and mobile devices, but you will probably prefer having a wired network for your desktop machines.

  55. OPenWRT best on WDR 4300, TP Link. by hackus · · Score: 1

    OpenWRT on AR716X hardware is the best in the tree right now.

    I have WDR TP Link 4300 using the latest GIT.

    Quite excellent, and using the latest 3.8 driver tree for Atheros Wireless and you get really good throughput.

    I imagine when Kernel 3.12 comes online, it will be pretty fantastic.
    The 4300 routers have been a mainstay at my house, pushing High Def video and Video gaming for about 6 computers and 4 tablets, 4 phones.

    The detachable antennas allow reallly good reception improvements as the key to good wireless isn't a large signal, it is good antennas.

    So right now I have 5 of the units and they are running MIPS processors in them, all over 600MHz so you can use them for doing storage area networking and decent iptables control at Gigbit speeds.

    Highly recommended.

    -Hack

    --
    Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
  56. ClearOS Community by Hamsterdan · · Score: 1

    Running on an old Athlon X2 4200+/4GB/320GB, based on Redhat

    Kinda overkill, but I'm running a caching server, bandwidth shaping, mail server with antispam, dual wan, VPN, along with other goodies. Beats *any* off the shelf router. Besides, it won't kill itself for unknown reasons in two years...

    Not sure about all packages being 100% open source though...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ClearOS

    --
    I've got better things to do tonight than die.
  57. hostapd and Slackware on a fitpc (Intel Atom) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I use hostapd running on Slackware on a FitPC2i. It has far more processing power than any ARM or MIPS based router, more RAM, dual GigE, and takes a 2TB 2.5" SATA HDD (it came with a 16GB SSD) so it doubles as a file server and darknet node. Also it's fanless and low power.

    I guess I might use OpenBSD if I was going to do it again, other than that, I would do everything the same.

    If I just needed a minimal and cheap access point or client access router, or had to deploy lots of routers, I would use many of the fine products Mikrotik make. They are easy to setup, with an IOS like (but more intuitive, type-completey, self-documenting) commandline interface, and have a good feature set, and extremely good performance for the price.

    If I was building an datacenter Layer 3 fabric, I would evaluate the currently available Openflow compatible switches, and setup a few servers as Openflow directors.

  58. The Answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is https://turris.cz/en/.

    "Project Turris is a service helping to protect its user's home network with the help of a special router. It is a not-for-profit research project of CZ.NIC, z. s. p. o., the registry of the Czech national top level domain .CZ."

  59. Voyage Linux / IPFire by silvertip257 · · Score: 1

    You could consider using Voyage Linux [0].
    It's a Debian derivative distro for embedded (x86) hardware (think PC Engines ALIX, Soekris boards, and more).
    Voyage includes hostapd and boiler plate configs (for network interfaces, hostapd, etc).
    There isn't a webui with Voyage, but is one necessary? It could be argued that once a DIY router is set up the configuration will not change.

    And there's IPFire [1] which offers an embedded Linux system with a webui.
    IPFire is for x86 hardware, but they have images for ARMv5 hardware.

    If for whatever reason the OP looks at buying new hardware rather than re-purposing the netbook, it would be wise to stick with a hardware platform that has more than one OS option. Example: I have far more software/distro options running x86-based PC Engines ALIX hardware!
    And my PC Engines hardware uses ~5W so it's on par with that of consumer grade routers (per my Kill-A-Watt tests) in terms of power consumption.

    [0] http://linux.voyage.hk/features
    [1] http://www.ipfire.org/features

  60. Port Knocking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are there any routers out there that include Port Knocking, or can be configured to include it? ISPs don't want you to run any server. But you can do so undetected, with all ports closed, on an as-needed basis from the point of view of the larger net, by using Port Knocking.

    1. Re: Port Knocking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might look at Ostiary, there's a package for it for OpenWRT.

  61. Build your own by ALeader71 · · Score: 1

    Check out Mini Box.com for build it yourself solutions. It will cost a bit more initially, but you gain the ability to run any software you desire. I used DD-WRT for years but it doesn't seem to be well maintained anymore. Ditto OpenWRT. Interest in hacking consumer routers appears to have run it's course. Personally I run bind and isc-dhcp inside my network and I use a third party DNS provider instead of my ISP's questionable DNS service.

    --
    Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
  62. I gave up on open source - and went mikrotik by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're ridiculously cheap, very fast, feature rich and ultra stable, you can pick one up that will route about 300mbps for about $50 - with wifi, every port is routed - just brilliant devices.

  63. Re:Linksys reliability by unitron · · Score: 1

    I've discovered that the stackable Linksys stuff, like the WRT54G and BEFSR41, benefit greatly by adding something along the lines of a 486 heat sink fan.

    You should be able to find a 12V DC tap off point near where the wall wart plugs in*, and plastic/nylon motherboard standoffs, with the mobo end stuck in the fan's screw holes, and the chassis end clipped off flush with the flange and a little RTV silicon caulking compound added to glue them to the circuit board, will suspend the fan over or near whichever chip gets hottest.

    *This portion of the exercise will involve knowing by which end of a soldering iron not to pick it up, and the observance of polarity.

    --

    I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  64. OpenWRT by SkunkPussy · · Score: 1

    I have had great success with OpenWRT on a TP-Link wireless router (don't remember the exact model). I looked into DD WRT but that project has a history of GPL violations so OpenWRT it is.

    --
    SURELY NOT!!!!!
  65. My experience by sabbede · · Score: 0
    To my knowledge, smoothwall is not set up to handle running wifi adapters. I'm sure you could compile it with the necessary support, but OpenWRT would make more sense. And DD-WRT is just OpenWRT for people who fear linux.

    Yeah, I said it. Screw DD. Its just a slower, lamer, version of OpenWRT.

  66. Untangle for AdBlock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I run untangle http://www.untangle.com on a notebook with a buscard 10/100 for uplink and 100/1000 for downlink into a gigibit switch.

    The only reason I wanted this is network-wide ad blocking.

    It does everything I need it to do.

    Steve

  67. openwrt is very well maintained, full featured by soldack · · Score: 1

    We use openwrt as a base OS. It works pretty well. It has a lot of packages and many single board computer vendors support it. It is pretty hackable and has lots of embedded patches that would never make it into mainline linux but you really need on embedded platforms.

    --
    -- soldack