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Car Dealers vs the Web: GM Shifts Toward Online Purchasing
cartechboy writes "Car dealers may be in for a new battle, and it turns out existing car manufacturers are joining the fun. Tesla Motors began the rebellion by trying to sell electric cars directly to buyers. Car dealers have fought that effort state-by-state and even complained to the DMV about Tesla's website. But things just got a little more interesting. General Motors announced plans to expand its new web-based shopping tool (aka a shopping web site) that allows customers to bypass showrooms when buying new cars. The idea is to use the Web as a giant test platform to see if the automaker can better target people who use the web to buy things. The catch is that the web app, called 'Shop-Click-Drive' will allow users to do almost everything they'd do at a dealer: customize the car, get pricing and financing and even arrange for delivery. But then when you push the button, your "purchase" will be routed to GM's network of 4,300 dealers, so you still have to visit a local dealer to sign on the dotted line. Even with this limitation, the move is still making dealers nervous. GM dealers aren't required to participate in the web-based test, and company officials say they have had some dealers turn it down."
I hope that GM and other manufacturers go all of the way with online sales. Car dealerships consume an absurd amount of commercial realestate, and it is frequently prime commercial realestate.
your car and healthcare combined.
Fat or not, agile or not... it's sure a heck of a lot easier (and cheaper) to buy a GM vehicle than it is a Tesla. GM dealerships are near everywhere (as is their quick fueling options)... not so much with Tesla.
Don't get me wrong... Tesla has a great bit of tech behind them, they are still the new comer and have a great deal of mindshare to win with regards to 'the big three'.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
I tried to buy a new car at a dealer recently and ended up walking out after being messed about and insulted with bait-and switch. Anything that gets rid of dishonest dealing and shoddy sales practices is a good thing. I say bring on direct purchasing ASAP.
GM is functionally incompetent when it comes to the internet. Tesla is new, small, agile, and responsive to the market. GM is still stuck on the couch with its hand in the chip bag, bitching about how easy kids have it these days.
Get off the couch GM, lose 50 pounds, and divorce yourself from the idea that you're owed something. Keep it up and this new generation that seems to have little interest in cars, preferring to bike everywhere and sees no particular status in owning a new car will put your fat ass outta business.
GM will continue to survive until it is forced to compete in real capitalism.
But hey, I'd rather car-shop online, and if that is EVER going to happen, law-makers have a vested interest in the success of GM (an "american" institution). Not so much in Tesla.
- Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
Even though you have to buy from a dealer, this new GM website means you get exactly the car you want with the extras you want at a price that is set before you even set foot on the dealer lot. No negotiating and no up-sell.
Which is exactly why some dealers dont like it.
Ask and ye shall receive!
most things online you buy with a credit card
with cars most people have to apply for a loan tied to the specific car. i'm sure banks will love to pay for cars without the verification procedures now in place at lots of dealers
You've obviously never owned a successful business.
Look for a reason to smile you jaded #*^ *(%$
... playing just for the middlemen.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
This isn't all that different from existing car buying websites (outside the GM lock-in). Most sites like Edmunds, Autotrader, Cars, etc have features like inventory search, pricing, options, suggested market pricing. These sites connect you with dealers. The dealers pay the web sites to the leads. In return the sites get sales pricing data (which is one of the ways sites like Edmunds figures out TMV). I'm sure GM has a charge for the dealers for the leads. Perhaps slightly less than independent sites.
All GM is doing is pre-qualifying the financing, which mean the leads are slightly higher quality than Joe Blow internet.
If you wanted to get a better deal but don't like the art of the sale, Costco Auto is the better route to go.
I bought a new car recently. I try to keep my cars as long as possible, but the old one was causing me to wonder how long it would last without another expensive repair. That meant a trip to the dealership, knowing quite well that I was about to have the worst category of retail experience known. It doesn't matter if you are buying a cheap car or an expensive one - dealers treat all customers the same way. Haggle, make you wait while the sales person "I will try to get my manager to accept your price, but he is going to beat me up..." talks fantasy football with his manager as you wait. (If you are trading in a car, they will take your keys to look at your trade-in. You will not be getting them back any time soon, so be sure to bring an extra set of keys you can drive off the lot while they are playing this game to wear you down.) Make them wait while you enjoy a sandwich or read a book in the coffee shop across the street.
After you endure that nonsense, you get to talk tot he "finance manager" who will try to get you to by an insanely overpriced extended warranty contract. If that doesn't work for the dealership, they will be happy to offer you very high rate auto loan. Think of what is happening: The sales rep is telling you how great the car is while you are looking at it, then the finance person is telling you an extended warranty is really needed because the car will probably have a major repair after the warranty period is over. Be sure to ask the finance person if they think you should tell the sales person you will not be buying the car since he or she just told you it really isn't a very well made car.
Car dealerships are really parasitic IMHO. They use their intermediary status to extract as much as possible from customers, and in doing so alienate the customers from the manufacturers. The manufacturer spends a huge amount of money establishing a brand, designing cars they hope will appeal to the public, taking capital risk, and managing production. Think of the extended warranty pitch - it totally undermines the manufacturer since it implies the car really isn't very reliable. My previous car was a high end brand, but I detested the sales and service department at the local dealer so much I vowed to never buy another model of that brand, even though I really liked the car. But none of this is new to anyone who has purchased a car from a dealership, new or used.
Given the above, and manufacturers know all of it, I am surprised that Ford and Chrysler aren't jumping on the direct sales model, too. They probably will though; the dealership model makes far less sense now that consumers can learn more about a car online than most car sales people will ever know, since that is not what they care about. Before the internet, it was necessary to go to a dealership to look at a car, maybe get a brochure and see what the car actually looked like. Of course the buyer still has to test drive the car, but there is no reason manufacturers can't follow the Tesla model. This is a bit of a simplification, since Tesla cars in high demand and people are willing to wait for one. There is also a lot to be said for having inventory on a lot since it simplifies distribution and might help close a deal. But... I think every manufacturer would clamp down on the pathetic treatment of customers their dealers engage in if they were selling directly.
A friend of mine is thinking about buying a BMW M3, but I told him he should drive a Tesla first given that the two models are similar in price. The BMW might be a good car, but he dislikes the dealership experience as much as anyone. Why support the dealership business model if there is a choice? My thought is that my next car will be a Tesla not only because it is a great car, but also because I know my money won't support the jerks who run auto dealerships.
Given the intermediary advantage the dealer has when approached by a customer, it is no wonder they are fighting the direct sales model. They have a license to steal, and don't want to give it up. We hav
Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
At least women can't buy shoes online. No Ma'am!
the last car i bought, 5 or 6 years ago, i considered a GM car. I had just gone through a great experience buying a honda for my wife, then GM came along to show me how miserable a shopping experience could be. There were a couple of options that made me want this car, but then I couldnt figure out how to get them. The salesman just wanted me to pick one off the lot, but they were over priced with options i didnt want, or didnt have what i came for. We looked at how to order the car, but the items all came in bundles... piles of bundles. One might have a sunroof, a certain radio, upgraded rims, and memory seat adjustments. of these I wanted the sunroof. Then you pick a different engine, and it changes the rims and radio and carpet, and you arent sure which set of overlapping choices would end up on the car. No one could figure that out. This happened for every option i wanted.
I then tried to configure on a website. again the options were a joke of complexity. At the end, I got to choose which dealership would contact me with a quote. I could choose 1, and only 1. I wanted to see what competing quotes might get me, but I had to start the entire order process over. This was going to take too much time, so I bought a Nissan.
While Tesla has no dealers, they have show rooms. That takes care of half the equation, the whats it look, feel like. Ideally the rental/try before you buy/short term lease is the best next step. I would rather pay $50 to rent a car, for the weekend without pressure than pay thousands to have a person pressuring me to buy (wont be the exact car, but close enough.) Then closing the deal online vs a shake of the hand makes no difference to me. I would love to do that with a house as well (practically what I did do.) Research the houses, load them all in the GPS, go look at them. The last step would be the only change, instead of calling a relator, meating at the hose, filling in paper work, waiting days, then meet up a month later with lots of paperwork without time to comprehend. Been much cheaper, and better all around if I could have just click my offer, get the counter, click a couple times for that last step.
i have done nearly this. We decided which car we wanted, but went to a dealer to test drive it and check for comfort , fit , etc. We told the salesman what our plan was, so he just gave us the keys and told us to check it out. A few weeks later we made the decision, had a deal in hand, and went back to the guy that treated us right and told him the deal we had. Let him know that if he could match what we had, or give us reason for something better, then the sale was his, and that we returned only because he had treated us right on the first day.
Customer service can still win a sale, because as you say, there is a need for the consumers to actually see and touch the car in many cases.
I will not—repeat—NOT buy a car unless I have driven it first. So, I will test drive it, then go online and see if I can get it from GM for less. If I and others can, GM will put its dealer network out of business. How are they going to sell cars then? They'll have to open a series of GM stores as the dealers get put out of business, something which will probably get the remaining dealers into Federal court fast. And if GM ultimately wins and you can only buy a GM car from GM, I'm not certain I want to buy a GM car from them. I can guarantee you that it will not be the same as visiting the local Apple Store.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
We're so used at looking at reviews and videos of stuff and ordering on the Internet. We even order clothes on the Internet without having a way of trying them on, so why not cars? Even grocery shopping can be done over the Internet these days.
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So forever?
Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
GM will continue to survive until it is forced to compete in real capitalism.
Never. Going. To. Happen.
GM will compete and be productive, but it will also be propped up by DC for decades beyond its viable life because it is a critical American manufacturer in terms of raw industrial output. And raw industrial output wins almost any prolonged non-WMD war.
You were on a roll, until you just said this crazy thing: " Keep it up and this new generation that seems to have little interest in cars, preferring to bike everywhere"
The whole "wheeling and dealing" for a car price needs to go away.
Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
I SO badly want to give you a megaton of mod points.
The earlier comments re how GM is out of shape are spot on, too.
I won't buy their products.
An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
I buy a lot of things online. With something as long term and expensive as a car I want to drive it first. In addition I want someplace to have it maintained and repaired. Shop, click, drive - No way. Last time I bought a car and researched online. There were cars I thought I wanted but once I drove them I didn't like them. If my car has a problem I take it to the dealer, they fix it and I can trust them. I drive a Toyota btw not a GM. The experience at the dealership is actually pretty good.
Tesla Motors hopes to open Va. dealership http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/tesla-motors-plans-to-open-tysons-corner-dealership/2013/10/08/03547620-3020-11e3-9ccc-2252bdb14df5_story.html Bonus Nikola Tesla link: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131003-nikola-tesla-surprising-facts-statue-museum-science/
As I go get a new vette.
Good idea, but isn't Best Buy and other retailers complaining about the "showroom effect?" How's that going to work when car dealers are just giant test drive outlets?
That said, wow, the ability to drop the stupid haggle dance with your typical slimeball car salesman would be awesome. I'd pay more for the privilege. I can't stand haggling over a few hundred dollars, and actively dislike all salesdroids.
One factor they have to take into account is that car dealerships actually don't make much money on the cars themselves (unless you pay MSRP.) They make money on the sleazy stuff like:
- Financing. People who come in and say "I can pay $X/month." OK, here's an 11-year loan at 14% interest...
- People with bad credit
- Useless options/warranties/accessories they try to push on you at the last second
- Leases -- leasing is an awful deal unless you can completely write off the lease payments as a business expense.
So this new system would just have to funnel your order to a random pick of the Glengarry Glen Ross guys at Joey Barbarino Chevrolet, and they would get a flat fee for processing your paperwork. Not as lucrative as all the other stuff they can push on you...
I would have given anything to accomplish this feat with Nissan last year. I figured out what car my wife and I could settle on (2 year process), and then tried to get one. Alas the last of the 2011's were already sold. So then I waited a few months and tried to get a 2012 vehicle. Alas those were delayed due to the flooding that also hit the nuclear plant and made much news. When I finally got a dealer to ship me one from 1200 miles away, I still didn't get all the exact options that I wanted. Most noticeable is that my wife complains about the lighter interior upholstery.
Why should I have to spend months trying to order something that should be so simple as: Middle of the road trim level, brown, with dark upholstery. Honestly I don't understand why I couldn't get those three things together in one vehicle after searching 15 some states.
I had driven several of the vehicles and knew we liked it...just couldn't get it without fancy doodads that we didn't want. I bet straight internet orders wouldn't get jacked up by the dealerships quite as bad.
Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!
Fat or not, agile or not... it's sure a heck of a lot easier (and cheaper) to buy a GM vehicle than it is a Tesla. GM dealerships are near everywhere (as is their quick fueling options)... not so much with Tesla.
Yeah... that couldn't be because of political pressure to deny them permits, could it? Great argument you got there.
Tesla has a great bit of tech behind them, they are still the new comer and have a great deal of mindshare to win with regards to 'the big three'.
You say that like they're all playing the same game, and under the same rules. You couldn't be more wrong.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
GM is functionally incompetent when it comes to the internet. Tesla is new, small, agile, and responsive to the market.
Well Tesla has, what, one model, with very few options available. More coming, sure, but today, its pick your color and battery size, and send a check.
With any of the other big manufacturers, the combinations are almost endless. Engines, transmissions, rear ends, tires, interior trim, exterior trim, across maybe 10 or 30 models. Its a whole level of scale. They have never been set up to do this on a massive scale. Even the dealers need hand holding when ordering cars. Dealers typically order from a pick list of pre-configured models, of what they think will sell in their area.
When you come kicking tires, if they can't find a car you want on their lot, they might check other dealers, but sooner or later you end up settling for something handy or going for a custom order. And custom orders aren't quick through any of the big dealers. It can take a couple months easily, and if you are near the end of a model year you are SOL. So most people settle for what's on the lot.
Tesla was set up from the beginning to custom build from a SMALL selection of models. Detroit was set up to pre-build bazillions of standard models with a very few custom orders.
Still you have to give them credit for trying. You can already "custom build" by picking package options from most manufacturers. (Not with anywhere near a desirable level of granularity.) But you are going to go through a dealer somewhere along the line.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Welcome to Mini Cooper a la 2006.
There are 0x40000000 types of people: those who understand 32-bit IEEE 754 floating point, and those who don't.
Recently purchased a new Mustang. I wasn't sure this time what I wanted and had a list of possible choices including the Camero, FR-S and Challenger. Many of the local dealers don't want to order a vehicle. Few had base models on the lot. Anything under 30k wasn't on the lot. Some dealers didn't even have a car I could test drive.
Step 1 is actually forcing dealers to keep updated inventory. I don't know how many times I went to a dealership or called and a vehicle had been gone for weeks.
If GM improves this process and it works for them, perhaps we'll see better service from all the automakers. I'm all in favor of that both as a consumer and computer programmer in Detroit.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
If we could subscribe to cars like how we pay for cable or pay for cell phones, your idea would work.
And it would be optimal --- why should we buy instead of lease --- ideally! Then again, some people would argue we should all rent instead of own homes. What is the answer? Only the future can know that!
But you raise great points!
Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
Step 1.
Make a simple web site where I build the car that I want to buy and tell me what the MSRP should be. If I want the purchase agreement can be signed digitally on the Internet and I all I have to do is go pick it up.
Step 2.
Allow me to have dealers in a range I am willing to travel bid on selling me the car I spec out in step 1. Any participating dealer can submit a bid for what they will sell the car for. Once the bid is accepted I sign digitally on the Internet and all I have to do is go pick it up.
The entire point is to allow people to purchase a car and sign the contract without ever interact with a dealer. Importantly by signing the contract over the Internet with GM you don't have to worry about the dealership pulling something once you show up or backing out.
The dealership experience is so bad that most people would rather get a root canal than deal with a salesperson. Allow people to buy a car without worrying about getting ripped off because they are female, black, immigrants or whatever else.
I don't like buying from a dealer, but I don't like paying MSRP either. If dealing with the dealer means I save a few thousand dollars and not pay MSRP then I'll gladly sit through the upsell process and constantly say NO for an hour or so to various options they try to sell me. I have done that a few times by now and I think I have mastered it.
But hey, I'd rather car-shop online, and if that is EVER going to happen, law-makers have a vested interest in the success of GM (an "american" institution). Not so much in Tesla.
Everybody car shops on line. They read the specs, pick the model, look at prices, and maybe get a few quotes. Very few people actually order on line. (Women tend to do this more than men, but then women buy more than half the vehicles sold in the US).
I'm not willing to spend 25 or 50k on a strictly on line purchase. If I bought a Tesla I'd do the same on line shopping but I'd STILL go find a showroom/service center. (I'd have to drive to Seattle). I'm Not dumping that kind of money on the net, and having it show up wrong, dented, or what ever with out a local-ish resource.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
They are still buying it from a dealer, it is just now GM is the dealer.
I bought a car online, and I am not a broker. No big problem.
I have wondered how to make borrowing/sharing more fluid. IE I need access to a truck a couple days a month. I need access to a 5 passenger vehicle 6 times a year or so. I need a daily driver for 20 miles each way trip. I want a camper 3-4 times a year. So I have a quad cab pickup that takes care of all these roles. Much cheaper than trying to maintain insurance, license, tires, etc for multiple vehicles. Difficult to share something like this because people all expect a different level of care, and you can't rent and expect to have it reliably have a working everything I need. IE above average battery for the camper, or above average tires for pulling a boat from a lake in marhc... But ideally with the right level of trust, I would be willing to have a complete inventory and state of everything I own in a databse ready to share with the community in exchange for access to the same. Save the neighbor I never met from driving to the store for a wheelbarrow, save me from having to buy a planer for that one project...
I wouldn't define any business that acts as a legally-protected middleman as "successful" -- actually successful business provide their own value and don't need legal protections because customers are happy to pay them for that value.
I'm with ya. I won't buy shorts on the internet because I loathe wasting money on shipping something back when it's not what I wanted. Wrong size, wrong color, . I can't expect the carrier to cover it. They did their job. I'm asking them to do it again. The seller sold me what I asked for. Now what do I do with them? Any way you slice it I feel like an asshole who should have just gone to the store and tried some on. No one to blame but myself.
/rant
There is no way I'm shipping back a car because the blue finish on my monitor looks nothing like the blue in reality.
A service center serves a definite purpose. I'm... Old. I've bought 3 cars in my life. My current car will be old enough to get its own learners permit next year. Dropping that kind of money is a big deal to me, especially since last time I did it, I dropped $16,000. Cars are twice that now, I NEED a little hand-holding to make sure I'm not totally doing something stupid. I'm willing to pay a professional to make sure all the correct legal paperwork is handled. I want somewhere I can go to when something happens to my car, my fault or theirs. I also need a place where I can go and be guaranteed to get the part I need for my car, even if I pay a small premium. I've been amazed at some of the obscure bits they have had in stock. That being said, I do prefer a mechanic to a dealer for any repairs I can't do myself. Dealerships have a scorched earth policy to vehicle repair. Two years after I bought it, my car developed a steering fluid leak due to the high and low pressure power steering lines being too close and at cross angles vibrating holes in each other. Ford wanted $600-$800 to replace the power steering system. The mechanic I took it to fixed it with a brazing torch and stopped the vibration with some cut rubber hose and a zip tie for $20. That was 12 years ago and I haven't had a power steering leak since. Sure the for way would have fixed it, but it's just a tube guys. Replace the tube, not the whole engine.
Well Tesla has, what, one model, with very few options available. More coming, sure, but today, its pick your color and battery size, and send a check.
Consider what they're up against: GM isn't just on the Fortune 500, or even the Fortune 100. They are in the Fortune, uhh... 5. This is a massive corporation, one deemed by our own government as "too big to fail". They have an extensive network of lobbyists. Do you know how many times Tesla has tried to get stores opened only to be denied by state and federal law -- passed very recently and at the behest of GM? Google "Tesla permit" ... then shit a fat brick. You wonder why they only have a website? It's because that's the one thing they don't need approval from these paid off politicians to get going. And... SURPRISE! Guess what the next thing GM wants to do is: Make buying a car online functionally illegal. They're real close to doing it too.
Now when you're pissing in the wind against that kind of a political power player... how much money do you think they're blowing just to keep their head above water in that department? A fuck ton. They'd love to give you a dozen new models. They could too... except every last dime is dedicated to surviving the regulatory onslaught GM has orchestrated. GM has spent more on campaign contributions this year than Tesla has ever made from all of its sales. Ever.
Still you have to give them credit for trying. You can already "custom build" by picking package options from most manufacturers. (Not with anywhere near a desirable level of granularity.) But you are going to go through a dealer somewhere along the line.
GM thanks you for your patriotic opinion, Citizen. Our extensive network of exclusive dealerships really is the only way to shop.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I'm Not dumping that kind of money on the net, and having it show up wrong, dented, or what ever with out a local-ish resource.
Okay dude, seriously... if you drop 25-50k on a car, do you honestly think the company cares so little for your purchase, when it's so small and desperate for customers, that it's going to just flip you the bird? No. They'll send the goddamned engineers who built that car on the next flight to your house to personally buff and shine that fucker. So please; Don't insult everyone's intelligence here by suggesting that is any kind of a possibility. Amazon provides better customer service than that when I buy a pair of shoes off their website.
No. This is about convenience, and human psychology. If you're going to be spending an hour or more a day inside that metal can on wheels, you want it to be comfortable. You want it to be easy. Satisfying. And you can't satisfy those emotional needs unless you sit in the damn thing first and drive it around. That's why you go to the dealer -- to test drive. Find out if you find the car... suitable. No other reason. I bet if Tesla had lots in every major city where you could just show up, test drive it, then bring it back... and that was it, no dealers, no pressure, no bullshit... and everything else was done online, you'd pony up the 25-50k. You'd do it because then you'd know what you're getting.
But don't say it "show up wrong, dented or what ever" is really a serious hinderance in the buying process.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Well ... what you can do ... rent a 5 passenger vehicle for $50 a day or rent a camper.
That is what the rental places are for --- I came to your same conclusion a long time ago. We don't need to own everything we ever use.
Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
Perhaps you bought a Zune, a Surface RT and really like the new Blackberry phones too!
Or maybe you are a market of one.
By the way, what car did you buy online and what price did you pay --- I mean, why withhold details for a true story if you see what I say?
Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
Well Tesla has, what, one model, with very few options available. More coming, sure, but today, its pick your color and battery size, and send a check.
Actually they have quite a few options; a loaded Tesla costs up to $60k more than a base model. Suede headliner anyone?
Except that it's true. The stats back it up. More men and women under the age of 25 have no car and no interest in owning a car than ever before. Car ownership statistics in that age category are on a steady decline.
Whether that's just that mommy and daddy still drive them everywhere and in the future reality will hit them, or not, I cannot say.
Heh, unless you work for a GM dealership, you have NO idea how bad GM is at IT. Their dealer-side website still does not officially support anything other than IE8. Business reporting relies on ActiveX integration with Excel, and only works properly with Excel 2000 and 2003. It can be made to work under 2007, but they don't support anything higher. Parts of the service-related workbenches still use VBScript. It used to be accessible only over a super-slow satellite link, but they changed that a few years ago, thank god.
To be fair, though, Toyota's web back-end, Dealer Daily, is even worse. IE-only, accessible only through a dedicated T1 which may not be used for anything else (but which you still pay full price for, of course). Blank page under anything other than IE.
Come to think of it, a lot of dealership stuff is locked on IE. Dealertrack (intentionally locks out non-IE browsers), Dealersocket CRM (featured-limited under non-IE browsers). ADP is the biggest supplier of dealership management software in the US and most of their stuff is entirely reliant on IE.
It's a pathetic state of affairs.
End of lesson. You may press the button.
I think I've seen a similar movie before, but it was about MP3's rather than cars. Since we're all still listening to CD's rather than those spandangled music doohickeys, we'll surely still be patronising our local dealer in times to come.
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
I had the same experience trying to buy an FJ Cruiser. Not every dealer though was a tool bag about it. I just called a bunch telling them exactly what I wanted until I got one that said "sure no problem" most lied or were ignorant that such a thing could be done.
The others all wanted to sell me a automatic, two-wheel drive big-rimmed urban bling cruiser with all the inane extra crap that makes it look "edgy and offroady".
I wanted the 4x4 manual transmission base package (steel rims, no roof rack, no fog lights, no little $500 dashboard thingy that has a thermometer and a compass, no $1500 navigation package, no special badging and stickers,etc). The funny part was most of the sales personnel took it for a spin around the block because they had never seen one like that before and certainly never a 4x4 or a manual transmission(Tampa Florida). I didn't mind these guys even let me order the complete set of dealer repair manuals for the FJ without any grief. Other deals told me no way.
Frankly I think Mini and Tesla are the only car companies that get it close to perfect on their websites. Let me go through every option available, show me what the car will look like, (and someday hopefully) have a "buy it now" or "have a rep contact me to finallize the deal" button. I don't mind having a good dealer available, much like a good mechanic, but frankly I don't need that much handholding to make up my mind about what I want to buy.
Except that "under the age of 25" basically means the world hasn't kicked them in the balls yet, and biking around their urban area seems a pleasant way to pass the INFINITE amount of time they have left.
It's going to be interesting, but there are still a few key functions the local dealer provides
1. A place to test drive the car. I don't know about you, but i'm not spending 30k on a car without test driving it. This is going to require some kind of showroom/test drive area which has to be staffed. Now maybe, the manufacturers like Tesla set these up on their own and get rid of the middle man. Or maybe people get used to not test driving it.
2. Service. Some people have a higher degree of trust for the dealer when it comes to repairs. They might cost more, but they're probably more reputable than an unknown shop. Sure not better than the rare quality honest mechanic you find. And this has to be local.
It will be interesting to say the lease\t
You're 100% right. I'm presently driving a Hyundai Sonata (fantastic car, btw), and am considering either a Hyundai Genesis sedan or a Tesla Model S for my next car. The Genesis is a very nice car, but I'm strongly leaning toward the Tesla.
Write failed: Broken pipe
I can tell you that the only reason the company hasn't imploded is because there are physically not enough seconds in the known universe with which to schedule all the conference calls needed to schedule the conference calls needed to round up the list of people needed to hold conference calls about who knows fucking what about anything. It's a company that in reality runs on its own through sheer inertia. There may not even BE anyone in charge and it wouldn't matter anyway.
You have the illusion of choice with GM. They have Car X. You can then get a version without alloys, or without sunroof or without AC or without A, B, C. It is advertised to you as a base model Plus extras. When you judge Tesla, you should compare it to a similarly priced GM car, as there's a good possibility that you would be comparing it with one containing all the extras.
That is the problem with a lot of manufactures. They all seem to think that we want various packages of crap that have nothing to do with each other. I have been looking into getting a replacement truck/SUV for my current one, now I don't use it much but when I do use it I do truck things that require 4WD, high clearance, ability to tow or haul. Given what I do I want something with either posi or locking differentials but to get that I need get the package that has the premium audio and leather wrapped steering wheel for some stupid reason. What does the premium audio have to do with the front an rear differentials, I could understand getting thing that were related and one depended on others but this makes no sense.
Time to offend someone
That sounds pretty close to what I want, I might have to give that a look. I want a SUV or truck with a manual transmission real 4WD (not the suburban soccer mom style 4WD), posi or locking differentials, granted I would probably want the roof rack since that is where I would put the deer. When not in 4WD is the FJ front or rear wheel drive since it seems that the vehicles that are normally FWD when not in 4WD have really weak 4WD systems.
Time to offend someone
Actually given the legal restraints imposed on GM (and most other large automobile manufacturers) GM is showing it's anything other than "functionally incompetent" by implementing this. It's a hack, but it's one that's absolutely necessary if GM is going to go on-line without being sued into oblivion by current franchise owners and being banned from selling its vehicles in other states.
Tesla isn't more responsive to the market: it sells cars that cost over $60,000 and the only people buying them are the ultra-rich. If Tesla is "more responsive to the market" then Bentley must be the world's most responsive car company!
Tesla can, at this point, afford to eschew dealerships despite the problems that imposes upon Tesla's ability to trade in certain states because of the expected low sales and the motivated buyers it targets, but without comprehensive reforms - reforms that would benefit GM and Ford just as much as Tesla and Bentley - it will have to stick to the elite market and avoid selling more popular platforms.
Note: I've worked in the industry, I'm familiar with the restraints car companies are under. The fact the average Slashdotter doesn't understand that the restraints are there doesn't mean they're not there. Yes, they may be poorly suited for the modern era, but, let me put it this way: the rail companies are still suffering from regulations designed in the early 1900s that worked under the assumption that rail was the only way to travel, and while there's been the occasional reform, the bulk of ludicrous regulations and taxes that afflict that industry are still in place - which is why Amtrak is making massive losses and can't run more trains. Now, that's a situation where it costs the government money to keep the current regulatory framework in place, so you'd have expected them to do more about it.
By comparison, keeping the laws that force automotive manufacturers that plan to sell large quantities of popular vehicles to do so through dealerships doesn't cost government anything. There are massive lobbies to keep those laws on the books.
So expect to deal with this for the time being. It's not going to change, and no, Tesla isn't going to change anything - it'll assimilate, or it'll remain a famous niche player. And GM and Ford will continue to have to hack around the edges to get things more consumer friendly than they are at present.
It's quite an achievement GM has gotten this far.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
It has nothing to do with what you want. It has everything to do with what they can sell. They make much more money on bundling the various "packages" together because it forces people to buy features they really don't want.
It's true but it has nothing to do with whether GM is legally obliged to sell cars through dealerships or not. This generation is less interested in cars than the last one because there's been a substantial improvement in urban conditions over the last few decades.
Alas, it still remains the case that most people live in areas where they're forced to own cars. But an increasing number are having the option in live in urban areas, and that's a good thing.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
If that were remotely a factor, then the number of people under 25 who prefer not to use cars wouldn't be changing.
Being forced to drive everywhere sucks. It always has, it always will. What's changed are that there's been enough urban redevelopment over the last few decades focussing on TOD that slightly fewer people are being forced to drive everywhere. And people who grow up in areas that are well served by transit are less likely to drive than people who move to areas well served by transit who are used to driving everywhere.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
As someone who worked in the industry, I know that the last thing any of the big three want are the current dealership laws.
The entire premise of your post is BS. Dealerships exist not because of lobbying by GM, but despite it. Early on in the 20th century, as car companies got started, they needed outlets to have cars sold and didn't have the resources to create their own nationwide networks. Once they had the resources to do so, the privately owned dealerships fought back, and lobbied for laws to protect them - from Ford, GM, et al.
The difficulty and inflexibilities inherent in managing private, independent, dealership networks contributed to the fall of GM and Chrysler, and very nearly destroyed Ford too.
They don't want this. They don't have the ability to change it. They're powerful politically, but not that powerful.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Their business model relies on being able to screw over the customer on the price, and if the customer is walking through the door with a price that's guaranteed, then they can't screw them over (as hard, I'm sure they'll find a way).
The whole dealership paradigm needs to die. Open "service centers" instead of dealerships for the maintenance and sell over the web. Put all those scumbag salespeople/managers right where they belong: either in jail for fraud, or unemployed because they have no useful skills.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
I have yet to find a dealer that I *want* to visit. Every time I've bought a car (four times in four years) I get *argued* with when I come in for a specific feature set.
It's been like this since I bought my first car in 1990.
I want these features offered, some favorite responses.
You can add AC later (In Kansas, where six of the months of the year are >90 degrees)
You don't need four wheel drive
You don't need a high performance option, here, take the four cylinder model.
GPS? No one needs that
Adaptive cruise control? on a car with 300 HP? Why would you want that
You can always upgrade the stereo yourself, AM/FM will be fine.
You go to Ford.com, Chevy.com, etc, they have tons of cool options. You can build what you want, but good luck getting it from the dealer.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
They are not bad at the internet - my Caddilac ATS is pretty well connected to the web, it sends me an email status report every month, I can talk to the car (open the doors etc.) over an iphone app, my wife's 2013 audi can't do that - also, as a car it is a good americanized version of a BMW 3 series - I did order the car from the dealer, I will not take whatever they have sitting on the lot, the dealers are bad news, anything to aviod dealers sounds good to me - but GM did for many years suck, they made horrible cars, unfortunately it took a goverment takeover to clear out the incompetent management of that company - so much for the private sector doing everything better, big private sector companies often get infested with parasitic management who loots the company and run it into bankruptcy.
Nothing to add other than that I have a 2010 Genesis with the V8, owned it since new, and I love it. Great power and amenities for the money and the post-sale service has been good.
The geek in me would rather have a Tesla but I've never regretted buying "Jenny".
Has anyone ever wondered why we buy cars the way we do? If you wanted to buy a banana, you wouldn't go to a banana store. You would go to a grocery store and pick from a multitude of different fruits. Yet with (new) cars, there is no grocery store equivalent. Why is that? Well the reason is that in all 50 states dealerships have established a legal monopoly which basically prohibits this.
Planet Money did a podcast on this very issue.
I was (very briefly) a salesman at a GM dealership. I was admonished. I sold 4 cars in my first (and only) month. Most seasoned salesmen don't sell that many. What was I admonished for? "If you sell a car and didn't lie to the buyer, you didn't try hard enough." Though, sadly, the reason I quit was for sexual harassment. The nights were slow and we were open until 9. The night receptionist and I chatted to fill the time. She went on maternity leave. Her temporary replacement was a Dallas Cowboy's Cheerleader. I continued to chat with her as I did with the short, fat, ugly receptionist. So I was harassed because nobody else was self confident enough to chat with a minor celebrity as if she was a human. Oh, and they hired back someone who had been fired for sexual harassment, and he wasn't better after the re-hire (he was harassing the male employees).
It's the worst work environment I've ever seen. The workers were clueless about cars, GM, ordering. They existed to connect people with cars on the lot. If you didn't want a car on the lot, you were a "tire kicker". Where I worked, they'd have taken your "order" and a deposit and looked to see if there was one in the system or pipeline, and if not, they'd return your deposit in 6 months or so. But you wouldn't be buying anything else in that time, or you'd not get your deposit back.
Learn to love Alaska
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