Slashdot Mirror
Valve Shows How Steam Controller Works In Real Life
sfcrazy writes "Valve Software have demonstrated how the controller works in the real world with popular games like Portal 2, Civilization V, and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. Valve has posted a video on their YouTube channel to give users a glimpse of the Steam Controller experience."
A new MMORPG?
Gary Dunn
Open Slate Project
Might take just a tiny bit of getting used to, but this could actually work.
I'm actually impressed.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I don't really know what to say.
The fact that you have to lift up your thumb and reposition it is horrible. That alone will pretty much mean that you're at a severe disadvantage if you're in a multiplayer game trying to verse someone with a mouse and keyboard, because every time you hit the edge of the control pad you have to momentarily pause to lift up your finger and place it down in the centre again.
If they had some sort of inertia system (similar to how Apple scrolls stuff), then maybe that wouldn't be so bad. You could just run your thumb off the edge of the pad and it would detect this and continue moving in the vector you've specified by doing so, then when you put your finger back down it stops. But I'm not seeing that at all, so for all intents and purposes this appears to be a really shitty thumb trackpad.
I have a feeling that they're going to land up including a joystick emulation feature instead, and that'll be what 99% of the people land up using- and at that point, I'm kinda wondering what the point is over any other game controller.
Borderline NSFW
A very good video showing movement mapped to real gameplay.
The obvious: It's not QUITE as 1-1 as a mouse with 4 inches of control surface.
But I'd still rate it a bit higher than a trackball, which is high praise from me, since I really enjoy using trackball inputs when a mouse isn't convenient.
This is a real accomplishment in input innovation - even without considering the dynamic haptic feedback portion of the design.
I'd be amazed, if this works as advertised, if Sony and Microsoft don't push for a copycat controller very rapidly - especially given the PC-like nature of their new consoles.
The remaining challenge: How would it fare against a 360/Dualshock controller in specialized console games. From what I've heard from developers so far:
Super Meat Boy dev trys out the Steam controller
It sounds like it's a good compromise overall - but it's still got some hurdles to clear to being "the best" - but man, it sounds promising so far!
Ryan Fenton
Watching the FPS gameplay it reminds me of when I plan on my laptop using a trackpad. I would say it is a level up from the joystick on controllers now, however still not quite a mouse.
I am curious how this will work with games that are designed for a joystick. Such as driving or flight simulators.
I haven't owned a console since the NES. I've always been a PC gamer. I rarely play games with a anything other than a keyboard and mouse. I'm honestly impressed at what they have come up with. I'll seriously consider buying a steam machine once they are readily available. I think Valve has done a great job so far. It will be very interesting to see if it is successful and see what the competition does in response.
Granted, those who use a mouse still reach the edge of the mouse pad, and end up having to pick up the mouse and reposition it as well. Some mice are notoriously hard to actually pick up off the table, with slanted sides that don't let you get a good grip. Personally, I prefer using trackballs. They do have the inertial system by virtue of their design, and you never have to reposition them. Trackballs that let you use your fingers are the best, because you have multiple digits that control the same surface, so as one finger meets the edge, you can switch to another finger, and continue the motion.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
my hands often get sweaty gaming and using effectively trackpads/touch becomes impossible, controllers traditionally use knobs/sticks for a reason and it sure isnt a technological one
So for several of the games, the left trackpad seems to be equivalent to a non-centering joystick or Turbo Touch 360 (touch-sensitive gamepad for NES/Genesis, etc).
The non-centering joystick of the Atari 5200 got really bad reviews, and the Turbo Touch 360 was rated the 9th worst video game controller of all time by IGN.
If they had some sort of inertia system...
Did you not see this exact mechanic in the Civ 5 demo?
Take another look at the "swipe" on the right thumbpad at 2:23 and again at 2:27. It seems to work like a smartphone. If you lift your thumb while it's moving then the cursor has inertia.
They need show then that can be mouse only and mouse + keyboard hot keys.
That's built into the game, not the controller which means you'll be at the mercy of the developer as to whether or not the controller will be of any use
Is there any real evidence that steamOS will actually be truly open?
I know they advertised that the OS will be open source to some degree, but I haven't been able to dig up the details.
What worries me is this: if I can't sideload apps, install separate app stores, or root the system, then it's not truly open.
I'm worried steamOS will be as locked down to Steam as iOS is locked down to the iOS app store.
Is there evidence that steamOS will be more open than that?
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
Its clear from the video its still noticeably not as quick to accurately place shots as with a mouse (and keyboard).
If it aint broke dont fix it. I'm gonna stick with a mouse and keyboard thanks.
I've seen a lot of comments naming specific scenarios where a gamepad is better. That's completely pointless. If a gamepad is better in that scenario then you'll just use a gamepad.
The entire purpose of this thing is mouse/kb games.
Even if your sourceless assertion is accurate, there's nothing stopping Valve from implementing that functionality in the driver.
It's still far better than a gamepad.
I can't stand console controllers, but this one actually seems to afford the user some resemblance of speed and accuracy. While I'd still infinitely prefer a keyboard and mouse the Steam controller has put me in a favourable disposition regarding buying my first console, a Steam Box... As opposed to: "A console? Over my dead body!"
What about fighting games? With no buttons on the right of the pad, how do you do moves? A touchpad sectioned off as buttons isn't going to cut it - and using the buttons on the center is completely impractical as they are too far from the right thumb. I think Valve isn't considering enough genre's here.
The Triax Turbo Touch 360 tried this LONG before Valve. I had one. It was a novel idea at the time but didn't work so great and earned a spot at #9 on IGN's list of worst controllers: "Dear Control Engineers: Please don't remove the D-pad on a controller in favor of a touch-sensitive surface. You may try to con fighting gamers into thinking it'll make smooth circular motions easier, but you may not realize they like to rest their thumb on the pad when idle. Thanks. Your Pal, Craig"
Did you get to 36 seconds into the video and have an aneurysm? You can choose freely between 1:1 and relative input.
its not built into the game, and you can see him doing it earlier in the portal demo.
Looks like it'll cause a lot of blisters.
It's nice that Valve is bringing a, what seems to be, good controller for point and click and turn based games. But I still believe that if you're a PC gamer you'll have to couple it with a Xbox/PS4 controller(both supposed work on PCs out of the box) and a m+kb set as well.
Portal, unless you're doing a speed-run, you don't need to rush while still being accurate. So any controller could deliver a good experience. The counter-strike demo wasn't a real match, so it's hard to make a judgement. Don't get me wrong, it's very usable and if every person in the match is using the same controller, I see no issues whatsoever. But given that you'll be playing these games on a PC or Steam Machine, it's very likely that lot's of players will be using mouse+keyboards, and that could be a huge disadvantage for steam controller users.
Then there are the "console" type of games: 2/3D platformers, JRPGS, SHUMPS(my favorite genre on the PC), action/adventure, etc, I have the feeling that the console controllers will be better. And for racers and fighters, people using console controllers or wheels/sticks will have the better advantage/experience.
...was I spent the next few hours playing and replaying Papers Please.
Anyone even moderately serious about FPS gaming was probably facepalming pretty bad in the Counterstrike part of the video, where after getting the crosshair roughly NEAR the target, the player had to make a second adjustment that took maybe half a second in order to actually get the target in the crosshairs and hit it. That's half a second too much. What was the benefit this controller added over the existing PS3/360 gamepads again?
Which it obviously is as they specifically mentioned that the 1 to 1 control was one way you could configure the controller.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
The point is Valve came up with Steam Box but all of their own titles are designed for mouse and keyboard, so they needed an appropriate controller or there wouldn't be anything to play. I was wondering how they were going to solve this problem and this controller design was a brilliant solution.
Nintendo and Sony didn't have anything to play with the NES, SNES and the PS1 either.
They just made sure games would come out and work with their console and controller.
Worked well enough for them.
Am I the only one that is more impressed with the fact that CS:GO is ported than with the controller? I can finally play something more like COD or MOH.
IT Admins Group: Where you decide the content
My trackman marble fx wireless just broke down. It was already a meager replacement for the seminal wired original fx, and now I'm stuck as new good finger controlled trackballs are nowhere to be found. It's a sad state of affairs.
Any suggestions ?
Flourescent (adj): smelling like ground wheat.
That is the crux of the problem right there. Using the keyboard for movement has the disadvantage of not being able to move backwards, 15 degrees to the left and curve around a corner while moving slowly. You know what I'm talking about, think the Playstation era Metal Gear Solid games(especially VR missions). For a long time PC user have sucked it up and gotten used to the limitation. Using gamepads for PC was an option in some ways but loosing that amount of precision in the game is far outweighed by the gain of using a mouse. A mouse can perform movements not possible with a joystick. That is the main argument for the KB/Mouse along with the possibility for hotkeys and such. What we really want is a Mouse-type look with a stick like movement. Many have tried, few have achieved the level of dexterity that either method has to offer. I just wish everybody here had a controller to play with before going on about the way "they think" it feels like, or the way "it looks" like it feels. Should they have tried harder to appease that active Slashdot demographic. DICE should had buttered the bread.
Fix it?
Kensington Slimblade, it's quite good. Not nearly the same form factor as an FX, but finger-controlled and very flickable.
Eat the rich.
Kensington still makes finger-controlled trackballs. I use an ExpertMouse myself; they also have one called the Blade.
Why they call a trackball a mouse, I've never been able to figure out.
... which comes from rubbing your thumb over the surface THOUSANDS of times an hour.
I don't understand why somebody can't just put a board on their lap, have a cut down keyboard with the ASDW keys and several others on it, and a normal mouse. Nothing compares to using a mouse to control an FPS.
Mouse pad ?
I have nothing to lose but my bindings.
My trackman marble fx wireless just broke down. It was already a meager replacement for the seminal wired original fx, and now I'm stuck as new good finger controlled trackballs are nowhere to be found. It's a sad state of affairs.
Any suggestions ?
Try to fix your current trackball first.
I play with high enough sensitivity to where I don't reach the edge of my mouse pad. Most of the time, I can just rest my wrist on my mouse pad and not even have to pick up my arm, let alone the mouse.
I wasn't considering buying a Steam Machine before this video.
please put some effort towards CS 1.6
While you're right (and still right- the PS4 won't have any games until someone releases games for it), surely Valve's biggest selling point with Steam is that they already have 100's of much loved titles covering every genre ready to go. I don't know how many Steam titles there are for Linux already, but it's a non-trivial number and includes AAA titles from the last few years (not least their own titles).
Bearing in mind that they'll be a new kid on the block in the console market, it certainly helps if they have a much bigger and better games catalogue than any of their next-gen rivals.
I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing here. I just bought a PS3 now that they're nice and cheap and boy was I disappointed by how the controller functions in FPS games. Previously I've played shooters on a PC and a Wii with Wiimote as a pointer (Resident Evil). The PS3 controller is terrible in comparison in such games. It's fine for racers and platformers, though. Looking at videos on Youtube I've come to the conclusion that even with a lot of practice one would never be as fast on a PS3 controller as with a K&M.
The PS3 (or XBox) analog sticks define direction and speed of the camera in an FPS game. However, what you want is the absolute position of the camera (since you're aiming). A mouse gives you this, which is why it's such a great input method. A track-pad also does this pretty well, as the concept is the same. If they can sort out the details, such as speed and resolution of pointing, this could be a very nice controller indeed.
soylentnews.org
If you can't fix it (as others have suggested) then troll eBay for good used or NOS. I find my trackman wheels at yard sales and then wind up replacing microswitches if they even detect.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
That's built into the game
Surely it can't be or it would completely fuck up anyone using a mouse? (The pad is emulating a trackpad controlled mouse pointer, so as far as the game knows you're using a regular mouse/trackpad)
Exactly my point - the game accepts mouse input and performs the action it wants based on that input. If the game wants mouse acceleration it'll add it regardless of any controller settings. You can add them on the driver level as well but if you set the driver to have mouse acceleration games with it will double the effect since they expect standard mouse input. Sure some devs may account for this but the entire point of controllers/consoles is standardization so that the complexity is reduced. If they're having to account for everyone's personalized driver settings it'll devolve into just another PC.
Some of the games in my library will actually allow multiplayer action on a single system by connecting a controller
When I have reminded people of that, their replies have been to the effect: "But how many people can fit around one desktop PC monitor?" and "Most people prefer to play in pickup groups with strangers because they can't even schedule online matches with their friends, let alone fly them in for an in-person match."
Kensington
Perhaps I've been watching too many of Ashen's videos, but Ken Sing Ton just sounds Chinese to me.
Why they call a trackball a mouse, I've never been able to figure out.
They've been doing so since the Apple IIGS days. Perhaps the rationale is 1. that it replaces a mouse, and 2. not to interfere with Atari's Trak-Ball trademark.
Do you "sideload" games onto your current linux desktop PC?
Yes. Compiling from source, installing from a binary tarball, or installing from a PPA is comparable to sideloading on Android.
I'm trying to find real evidence that sideloading will be permitted.
Without sideloading, how will a developer test a game on the Steam Machine before it gets greenlit?