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Could Snowden Have Been Stopped In 2009?
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "The NYT reports that when Edward Snowden was working as a CIA technician in Geneva in 2009, his supervisor wrote a derogatory report in his personnel file, noting a distinct change in the young man's behavior and work habits, as well as a troubling suspicion that Snowden was trying to break into classified computer files to which he was not authorized to have access. But the red flags went unheeded and Snowden left the CIA to become a contractor for the NSA so that four years later he could leak thousands of classified documents. In hindsight, officials say, the report by Snowden's supervisor and the agency's suspicions might have been the first serious warnings of the disclosures to come, and the biggest missed opportunity to review Snowden's top-secret clearance or at least put his future work at the NSA under much greater scrutiny. Had Booz Allen or the NSA seen Snowden's CIA file before hiring him, it almost certainly would have affected his employment says Dashiell Bennett. 'The weakness of the system was if derogatory information came in, he could still keep his security clearance and move to another job, and the information wasn't passed on,' says a Republican lawmaker who has been briefed on Snowden's activities. It's difficult to tell what would have happened had NSA supervisors been made aware of the warning the CIA issued Snowden in what is called a 'derog' in federal personnel policy parlance."
This is a classic case of "who watches the watchmen" or Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Apparently, no one. It seems that anyone with top secret at the NSA can do whatever they please with no oversight or discipline. It must be a fun place to work where you can spend you days creeping on your ex-girlfriends, elected officials, and corporate CEOs. Unchecked power is a very bad thing as we move farther and father from the principle of "habeas corpus" and into the land of "it's top secret and no you can't see the evidence, trust us, were a bunch of good, trustworthy folks."
And if you haven't seen "Flying Robots", go watch it now. The NSA will want these toys overhead next, if they aren't already there.
Snowden demonstrated and proved the reality of the computing and networking. It Is much bigger than CIA, NSA, and even the USA.
Modern computing allows to organize effective mass surveillance. It is not only about the US government. The technology itself is inherently dangerous. It registers ans sees everything, and forgets nothing. The 1984 is hopelessly outdated and over-passed.
Snowden is like Jesus of the new era. He is hated, crucified, persecuted, but the jinn is out of the bottle. We know now.
He did not receive Sakharov's prize, but it had been exactly what Sakharov did, - truth at any cost.
Fixed link: OT but informative: Timeline of Edward Snowden's revelations
Other red flags in his bio include:
- Claiming to have a master's degree from the University of Liverpool when he only enrolled (and never completed) classes.
- Claiming to have attended classes at Johns Hopkins University when they have no record of him.
- Claiming to have graduated the University of Maryland when they only have records of him having enrolled in an online class, and never completed it.
- Claiming to have served in the Army but being kicked out after breaking both his legs during training. He would have either been placed in a medical holding platoon until he healed, or discharged medically and therefore received a percentage of disability from the VA for life. More likely he was generally discharged under the "failure to adapt" doctrine.
What we see is a person who embellished stores about his own past, who has never been able to complete anything he started or hold down a job for more than a few months, who by nature of living in the DC Metro Area ended up with a clearance and a high-paying job. Okay, he did complete one thing: he got his high school diploma on the second try. The point is, had he grown up in any other area in the country, this guy would be stocking shelves at Wal-Mart and complaining about "the system."
We all know people like this. You would not invite him to dinner a second time, or feel comfortable if he were dating your little sister.
Blame the contracting agency that performed his background check. What likely happened, they had a quota they had to meet and were more interested in the commission than a thorough investigation.
I don't know enough about personnel internals at CIA or NSA. With what I do know, I have to view with suspicion a personnel history report that appears months after Snowden began leaking information. He's publicly humiliated the NSA, called them liars and produced some proof that they've crossed the line(s) of acceptable behavior. I would expect these agencies to produce "evidence" that denigrates his position, and I would not at first glance accept it.
I worked for a Federal Government Contractor. I administered a number of servers--the one with financial information and one with Classified information. I found another employee trying to break into my servers on a few occasions and reported this security breach to management. The CIO said "Good catch" but did nothing to the employee. (Well the CIO did give a promotion to the offending employee.) As a manager, this person set up a rogue server between Security Audits and continued his attempts to break into my servers on a regular basis. I continued to tell management and added notifications to Cyber-Security. Nothing was ever done about these attempted breaches.
Federal Government Contractors do not report problems to the Federal Department if they can help it. The Feds will investigate and that means a huge disruption of operations, productivity and costs the contractor a lot of money. So, problem people are left unreported, unchallenged, and on-the-payroll. It sucks to work for a Federal Government Contractor when you/your job are experiencing internal threats but it is Standard Operating Procedure (SOP).
Snowden is a hero. It's a damn good thing he wasn't stopped. Else, the American people would have had no chance to stop the fascism that is enacting a slow-mo coup d'etat of our democracy. Time will tell if we can do anything about it now anyway, but at least we have the knowledge if not yet the means.
We will know victory when the Jamie Dimons and Lloyd Blankfeins of the world and those on Capitol Hill and K Street who enable them are swinging from the trees that line the National Mall.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Let me recast this: Sometime in 2009, Edward Snowdon, having been a faithful and perhaps unquestioning CIA employee for some time, began to have pangs of conscience and take some preliminary steps toward what he ended up later doing: revealing what was going on at the highest and most secretive levels of government. His "superior" noticed this and recorded it in Snowdon's her personnel file.
Why does this article – which is cited, of all places, on Slashdot – try so clearly to change the event by relabeling Snowdon a criminal instead of a whistleblower beginning to come to his senses? Answer: to serve the established powers. To rewrite the narrative.
This makes me want to barf because I know so many people will buy into it and, apparently, some of those people are right here on Slashdot. In fact, such a twisting of the narrative has really already succeeded, having been played over and over in the newspapers and on the network news that everybody sets their sights by.
I'm glad they didn't stop him. People went from saying shit about tinfoil when you bring up spying. To actually listening.
This is a good thing. Now we just need to put a stop to it.
The American public, and also the rest of the world, need more whistle-blowers to leak illegal activity and overreach by self-serving secret agencies, that refuse to allow themselves to be subjected to proper and transparent oversight.
No law abiding person has any issues with spying on suspected individuals and organisations with just cause and court order. But most people do not want a dictatoral police-state based wholesale surveillance on everyone, as we have now.
How is what the NSA is doing in the USA now any different than what the former East German secret police use to do, with their secret files kept on ever individual, so that they can use any individual's past as a weapon, in case they get out of line?
Nor do we want to see security, such as encryption, weakened, if it makes the public more vulnerable to attack by bad/evil organisations in general, or makes it harder for honest and lawful people to cooperate for the benefit of society, even if it means letting a few bad people get away. Proper security requires risk-benefit analysis for the whole of society, not just selected groups.
"Could Snowden Have Been Stopped In 2009?"
No.
Who cares?
We're glad he wasn't.
The real way to have stopped Snowden would be for the government to not be a privacy-destroying, dossier-collecting, network-infiltrating, security-inhibiting organization that spies on its own people.
Then Snowden wouldn't have had a reason to leak.
They are talking about who Snowden got a hold of the information to leak it when the whole problem has nothing to do with HOW he got a hold of it to leak it and everything to do with the fact they were doing stuff so messed up that it HAD to be leaked for the greater good of the nation and it's people.
Quit asking HOW he got a hold of the information as much and start asking WHY they had done acts such as those to begin with more.
Snowden is like Jesus of the new era.
what, snowden never existed either? i could have sworn i've seen pictures of the guy and everything.
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Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
NY Daily News, 10/13/2013, Stephen Rex Brown with News Wire Services
The four laptop computers Edward Snowden traveled with while in Hong Kong and Moscow were merely a distraction and contained no top-secret information, according to an ex-CIA official.
Ray McGovern, a former CIA analyst-turned-critic of the agency, said that Snowden revealed to him during a six-hour meeting in Russia that the information Snowden swiped from the NSA was actually stored on hard drives and thumb drives.
The data was never turned over to Chinese or Russian authorities Snowden said, according to McGovern.
On Wednesday, Snowden met with McGovern and three orther former U.S. intelligence and law enforcement official who have become critics of the government's surveillance apparatus.
Several American politicians and intelligence officials have expressed concern the NSA materials Snowden, 30, downloaded had fallen into the hands of foreign governments keen to understand clandestine American operations abroad.
Snowden lives in a secret location in Russia and is "well-protected", McGovern said.
Who says they're false positives?
As many people have pointed out, the difference between Snowden and everyone who came before him is that Snowden had the decency to send the information to the US people, as opposed to some other government. But apparently he's the traitor.
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I find it interesting that his efforts go back this far and span another agency. He was aware of things back at the CIA that even then disgusted him so much he was already trying to do what he ultimately accomplished. Most people that upset would have simply quit and walked away from the whole thing, or turned a blind eye. Instead, he dug in deeper and moved to an even more secret agency - it's safe to say he had intent. That took a lot of backbone. Snowden is like a one person spy agency, only working for the people instead of against. This guy manages to earn more respect from me on a weekly basis it seems.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
The NYT article is based entirely on unnamed sources with obvious bias. Inherently untrustworthy.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some idea balls to remove from a manatee tank.
Jesus never existed? What sort of delusion are you suffering from?
Jesus does my lawn. He does great work. I found him outside Home Depot looking for work.
Be seeing you...
I've seen a few examples of this in my past careers. When a boss starts screwing over the company, his employees typically respond in one of several ways: Some try to get their own piece of the action. Some just say 'Screw it' and let their productivity go to hell. Some quit. And some push back and figure that they'll 'get' something on the SOB. Its possible that Snowden fell into the latter category. He either left on his own, figuring the battle wasn't worth fighting. Or he was pushed out in a manner designed not to trigger any further investigations that could blow back in the boss' face. So he takes his clearance and goes to work as a contractor for the NSA. And he sees that the problems are so widespread, they cross organizational boundaries. In the final analysis, it appears he was proved correct.
The CIA/NSA/FBI and other TLAs appear to have such lax ethics, it would not surprise me at all if quite a few employees in these organizations are choosing the first option: Might as well jump in and grab a piece of the action.
Have gnu, will travel.
All of the terror plots uncovered so far have been discovered using NSA terrorist honey pots or other means, not dredging through Aunty Mame's personal email. If you take a point list about someone's life, you can then pick and choose which suspicions to bring forward to paint a picture of a saint or a terrorist, depending on your need at the time. That is how innocent people are convicted of crimes they didn't commit. It is more than likely happening right now to some unsuspecting citizen.
What is your evidence? As I recall nobody had ever heard of the man until a century after his supposed death.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Is the date on the report questioning Snowden's loyalties the same as the date the material was actually entered into the electronic records? I can think of several strong reasons why the CIA might want to do some rewriting of its own history here. And certainly they have the expertise to do a good of that. In fact it would be routine for them to alter history: that is how you give a mole a credible back story.
The CIA is not just a spy agency. They are also the USA Bureau of Missinformation And Dysinformation.
I can imagine them rewriting history, but in this case I doubt it; surely it would suit them better for him to have been a normal, competent employee at that point, who then went rogue later, rather than saying "oops ... yes, we saw all these warning signs, but forgot to do anything about it for a few years. Told you so - er, I mean, we would have told you so, if we'd been more alert..."
Of course, if you're really paranoid, you'd wonder if the CIA computers had been compromised by, say, some other agency with lots of expertise at breaking into high-value targets, and this report had been planted by them, maybe to divert blame for their own failed internal security...
Are you asking for a certified copy of his birth certificate?
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
Not much work building hotrods any more huh?
Why are we asking how we could have stopped snowden, when we are not asking why we couldn't stop the machinations he revealed.
Really, what is higher priority???
As far as fixing the federal government. First, we'd need a government with any real care about the nation, something I don't think we've seen in a long time. Most people in the government are bureaucrats looking to expand their own interests, often at behest of the state. Thats never really going to change, because, as time goes on, less and less people give a fuck about the state for various reasons.
Corporate sponsers don't give a fuck except pleasing their parent corporation, the biggest and most influentials are multinationals that don't have the USA's best intrest in mind. Just intrest in using the government for their own ends.
The working class often couldn't give a shit about a corporate sponsored government, further than their own careers and retirement funds. They simply couldn't give a shit.
Then you have various conflicting ethnic loyalities, disgruntled employees who simply don't give a fuck, etc...
There is nothing unifying it all, except what people can get out of it, and when the get is out of it, the system will collapse.
One of my duties when I worked for a US Veterans Administration hospital was chairing the LPN Board that reviewed every candidate for Licensed Practical Nurse positions at the hospital. There had to be documentation verifying prior employment, school where they trained, and whether the school was accredited at the time they graduated. If any of that was missing the merits of the candidate could not even be considered; they were sent polite rejection notices.
I cannot believe that the CIA would do less than that, unless it was a purposeful move to slide a joker through the process. I cannot believe that the NSA would give a contract to any company that did not meet this minimal level of employment screening. Unless, once again, it was done as a deliberate exception (as would be the case if the NSA, CIA, or FBI had prepared the resume). I expect that the FBI does this kind of thing fairly often with the protected witness program; the CIA certainly has to do this to provide cover for some of its coverts; who knows what the NSA is authorised to do, let alone what their actual practice is?
Whether the NSA has gone rogue is not the right question. The real question is when will the NSA go rogue if it has not yet done so? The damned thing needs to be shut down, with all its employees made into letter carriers for the Post Office and distributed evenly amongst all the USA zip codes.
Will
of "shooting the messenger".