Slashdot Mirror
China's State Press Calls For 'Building a De-Americanized World'
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Businessweek reports on some not-so-subtle commentary from China's official Xinhua News Agency on the U.S. budget showdown: 'It is perhaps a good time for the befuddled world to start considering building a de-Americanized world.' Key among its proposals: the creation of a new international reserve currency to replace the present reliance on U.S. dollars. 'The cyclical stagnation in Washington for a viable bipartisan solution over a federal budget and an approval for raising the debt ceiling has again left many nations' tremendous dollar assets in jeopardy and the international community highly agonized,' the authors write. 'The world is still crawling its way out of an economic disaster thanks to the voracious Wall Street elites.' The commentary calls for a greater role for developing-market economies in both the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, adding 'the authority of the United Nations in handling global hot-spot issues has to be recognized. That means no one has the right to wage any form of military action against others without a UN mandate.' The commentary concludes that 'the purpose of promoting these changes is not to completely toss the United States aside, which is also impossible. Rather, it is to encourage Washington to play a much more constructive role in addressing global affairs.'"
Meanwhile, U.S. Senate Leaders are claiming a deal is close to reopen the federal government until mid-January and defer the debt ceiling debate until mid-February.
It isn't you, its me. I'm leaving you for India, as she is so much more able to fulfil my needs. I truly hope that you will find someone new. Let's be friends. - Uncle Sam.
I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
US strategy is to print dollars and the rest of the world have to live with the consequences(inflation), as they control militarily the main sources of energy and people need their petro-dollars.
Now they need to do the right things too.
The Slashdot summary already nicely shows why the Chinese do have a point of sorts:
"a deal is close to reopen the federal government until mid-January and defer the debt ceiling debate until mid-February."
In other words, the only thing they seem to be able to come up with is a deal to kick the can down the road for four months - and in the meantime, in all probability do exactly nothing about the underlying fundamental problems which have caused this mess in the first place.
You know, these pesky little details, like the U.S. habitually spending way more than it actually takes in tax earnings. As in: WAY more. A bit more could be argued to work in some lets-fudge-the-books-and-rely-on-inflation-to-make-it-work way, but the U.S. is light years from that sort of sustainable level. And no one wants to admit it.
The bit where the Chinese are IMHO wrong is that it will need any sort of centralised planning to achieve this replacement of the U.S. as hub of the global economy. That will just happen, inevitably. The fundamentals are gone, no way the U.S. can stay where it is. What will come afterwards is very uncertain - but things can stay the way they are.
However all electronics, toys, whatever says "Made in China".
The bottom line here is, the US owes-- as my economics professors (Reagan advisers) pointed out 25 years ago-- the one thing it can produce infinitely and with no cost: US dollars.
What happens in a meltdown? Well, if I ran the Fed along the principles my advisers taught me-- I'd pour payments to my allies (Europe, etc.); then I'd devalue the currency-- meaning, the creditors I didn't pay, now are owed much less. That's China, primarily, which, after all, has played quite a currency game with the US, and who's debt is quite arguably overvalued due to cheating on exchange rates.
Would China like the world to adopt the RMB as a default currency? Sure. Obvious. It's in their self-interest, at least. If everyone owes RMB, then they have to accept the global exchange rates.... they can't print or otherwise acquire USD, and pay off debts to China with the new currency.
Guess what? In short: no one's going to trust China as the global standard, as much as they aspire to it. If you're Switzerland, you know, that in a pinch, the US is going to pay off its debts to you-- not to China-- and give you a lot of notice, that it's going to devalue the dollar, so you can take advantage of the opportunity to erase 15% or 20% of your net debt to China, as well.
What's this called? Global political economics. China knows the game; it knows that it played the game to dump cheap labour and goods on the US, and accumulate capital debts (loans); and it knows, if the US reaches debt ceiling, it's China's debts that are going to get radically devalued to balance the sheets.
And good that. Unless, of course, you'd prefer that the Central Party, and not the US Treasury, is the final guarantor of the money you've loaned. A risk, I doubt, many of you (and many Central Banks) wish to take.
Or in short: the US will fulfill its obligations to allies and creditors who've played the game in good faith. To China and others who've gamed the system-- well, that's another story, and in the next days and weeks, we may very well see, what action the US can use, to re-balance the sheets.
I feel a change in wind, the US is going to get the kick up the ass it has been asking for.
Petrodollar is the root cause of corruption on a global scale.
yes of course, it's the Chinese that want to spy you. "this is not the prism you are looking for"
Has been for quite awhile, but of course there's much political pressure against using it from the US and somewhat from the EU...
They are right, the world needs a better currency. Preferably one not regulated by nation states or corporations: maybe bitcoin or a descendant with its flaws fixed. Also certainly the `voracious Wall Street elites have their role in the current crises (plural).
However, the real problem is all of us: run-away consumerism. The masses who took irresponsible mortgages. The `need to replace a perfectly good smartphone every two years. The throw-away society.
The economy is based on debt, and every nation is either involved in the race to the bottom for all the planet's natural resources, or they want to get into the race.
China is _not_ going to be the saviour though, also not Russia, India, Europe, South-America or the USA.
It is time to face the truth: this system cannot be saved, it can only collapse.
The quicker it goes, the better, because every day that goes by the damage caused grows bigger. There is no point in trying to hasten it (like Anonymous does sometimes), all energy should go into prepare for a rebuild.
If there is to be a new world order, whatever shape it might take, it must be build bottom up, by the people.
Capitalist-alike, but without the corporations.
Socialist-like, but not with the top-down planning and represssion.
Open sourced and based on spontaneous collaboration, but without the hippy navel gazing.
Therefore it is essential to keep the Internet free, and running whatever else in the world may go down.
It is the major advantage the world has to prepare for a soft landing, when the world order crashes.
-- a PIrate Party member who wishes to stay anonymous.
China and many other nations would love to see another currency supplant the U.S dollar or at the very least have a credible alternative, but the truth is that currently there is no currency that could do that. The Chinese renminbi is not free floating, the euro is not even guaranteed to survive, Japan is too leaden with debt which puts into question the future stability of the yen, and finally the British sterling, Canadian or Australian dollars etc are simply backed by too small of a economy to be considered serious contenders.
The institutions that emerged (world bank, IMF, UN) were really just codified the result of WWII. The likely reason nothing has emerged to replace it is that we haven't had WWIII yet.
It might be interesting to speculate how all this could change w/o fighting another world war, but it seems unlikely given the inertia of the current institutions.
On the currency issue, I think most of the people that talk about a non-us-dollar reserve currency are totally unaware of the history of the Bank for International Settlement and the IMF which denominates their reserves in SDRs (special drawing rights) which is a weighted basket of currency (USD, Euro, Yen, and British Pound).
The problem with any kind of currency reserves, is that countries need to be willing to put up significant assets to back up any denomination of wealth (or you might find them being attacked like George Soros once attacked the British Pound). The one thing about the USD that's hard to substitute is that it's really hard to attack it now as there are many greenbacks out there and many contracts are denominated in USD. Any transition to an alternate reserve is likely to be attackable which means it must be very quick or as part of a big movement (perhaps even war-like).
These attempts of China to flex their metaphorical muscle is just more fuel for the US conservatives to keep justifying the idiotic defense budget and the "World Cop" ideology.
Hah, you're funny. The US is known for fucking one and all, allies and enemies alike.
*cross-checks firewall log with geolocation*
NSA is secretly spying from Chinese IP ranges? Whodathunkit!?
>who's debt
please no.
Or in short: the US will fulfill its obligations to allies and creditors who've played the game in good faith. To China and others who've gamed the system-- well, that's another story, and in the next days and weeks, we may very well see, what action the US can use, to re-balance the sheets.
I'm not seeing any evidence to support that. Going by recent history, the US seems perfectly happy to trample over its allies to secure its putative interests.
The unfortunate problem is that China owns all your dollars and doesn't know what to do with them. In fact all they can do is to float the Renminbi which would cause a collapse in the value of the dollar against it and basically crash the US economy.. and the rest of the world too. The US can't really follow your suggestion as the Chinese would kick off and do something once they saw it happening, I'm not sure what, but I could imagine nothing good overall. Probably crash the world economy in some way or another :-)
That they're trying to create something else suggests they're fed up with the US government lurching from crisis to crisis for wholely internal political reasons. And that a new inter-bank currency would allow them to spend all those dollars a little more easily. That's the main reason they want this, I think.
On the other hand, a first step towards a global currency is surely a small step forwards in human social evolution.
China still has substantial currency controls on the renminbi. It's difficult to move renminbi to other currencies. There's a "State Administration of Foreign Exchange" which issues permits to do that. Businesses and individuals in China can buy goods with renminbi from other countries, but exchanging renminbi for dollars or euros or doing other cross-currency financial transactions is heavily controlled.
(Lately, there's been a surge in Bitcoin transactions in China. This provides a way to get around exchange controls. This activity will probably provoke some government action if it gets big.)
Because of those exchange controls, the renminbi has not been a major international currency. That was the deliberate policy of the People's Bank of China for years, because they didn't want their internal economy yanked around by external events. That policy changed in July 2013. China now has a big enough economy internally to outweigh external holders.
Retail controls are loosening. HSBC and Standard Chartered Bank will now let you open a bank account outside China denominated in yuan. But it's not freely exchangeable yet.
Here's a summary of "Circular Concerning the Simplification of Cross-Border RMB Procedures and Improvement of Relevant Policies" from the People's Bank of China. The changes are slow and cautious, but are happening.
the US will fulfill its obligations to allies and creditors who've played the game in good faith.
Nope, not even close. The USA will default on those debts by inflation.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
These carryings on in Washington won't themselves lead to the loss of US power. What will though is if this becomes an accepted political tactic. Republicans win the white house and pass a law that the democrats don;t like - they do the same and hold the country to ransom. This could lead to a slow decline and long-term instability of the dollar
The US is hardly alone in its trouble. The Netherlands just had "prinsjesdag" the day that the budget for the next year is presented. And it was immiedialty followed by a not yet ended dance to get enough approval from non-governing parties to get it through both parlements. Because the two coalition parties don't have a majority in both. No it isn't a two party system, we got LOTS and it isn't exactly a deadlock but it does result in a compromise that nobody hates and several government in succession that haven't finished their terms. This government likely won't make it either.
The Belgians recently spend a year without a government because the sub-frenchies and the sub-dutchies hated each others guts. England is being ruled by two parties where one party is withering away because it gets the flack for supporting the other party. What people are going to vote in the next election is anybodies guess. Maybe they will punish the tories again by voting labor.... because voters never ever learn (that is how labor got in to power in the first place, only for blair to upset people so much they voted tory to punish labor).
Germany too has seen the collpase of a coalition with one party not even making the voting treshhold. To Merkel is look for another party to rule with so that party too can lose all their voters... sounds like a good plan right?
Southern Europe mostly votes for whatever guy promises the most and blames all the wrongs on nothern Europe for refusing to subsidize the south after decades of subsidies that were squandered.
Canada hates its leader but refuses to elect anyone else. New Zealand is a puppet state and Australia seems to elect people the people online hate.
The problem might be that elections are simply to simple a tool to decide with how to govern a country.
Take for instance privacy. One privacy issue that Americans often mention is their medical history since an insurance agency might reject you if they know you have ill health. But Obamacare cures that. If an insurance agency can't reject you for your medical history, neither will they want to find out your medical history. Bam! Socialism saves privacy! How is that for a twist? Every privacy freak support Obama!
A bit silly perhaps but this shows that issues don't stand alone yet during elections they are presented like they are and most elections boil down to a handful of issues and then everybody bitching about how party X who promised Y is not doing Y and totally screwing you over on Z as well.
Or maybe democracy is alright and it is just needs a better class of human beings.
But the US is not alone in being screwed up and suffering gridlock. It is just dealing with it in the most immature way possible. But hey, that is Americans for you and we love them for it. Makes for an entertaining way to end the news, first 10 minutes of how your own country is falling apart, then a 1 minute "silly yanks" bit to show that no matter how silly your own leaders, there are sillier people on this planet.
USA, showing the world things can always get sillier!
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
+1
I feel really insecure with Australia's agreements as it is. meaning, The FTA and US millitary bases on Aussie territory.
The US don't help me feel safe. My father was in the millitary.
The Chinese have long (about a hunderd years) been wary of the US and it's cronies raping and pillaging in the guise of religeous wisdom.
I'm for the change, let's get out of here.
My 2cents
the creation of a new international reserve currency to replace the present reliance on U.S. dollars
Wow! Didn't see that coming, how about everyone else in the world??
.. quickly! Hand power over to the UN, they can be the martial law for the whole world AND control all of the money. Anyone who thinks that this wasn't contrived is kidding themselves.
OMGoshness, US debt crisis constructed by US officials
Dont worry, I think your entire post is extremely contrived.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
What the GP says is correct. The way he said it may not be politically correct, and it may offend you, but it is correct nonetheless.
The US is teetering on the brink of loosing its right to be a Reserve currency. If that happens we're all likely to be trading in Renminbi,
I think Congress should change the law so that the fiscal limit is be automatically increased by (say) 5% each year unless a bill is passed for a different amount. That would prevent a party having a chokehold as preventing an increase would need to pass both houses and get presidential approval.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Yeah, just ask the UK. Oh, wait.
If you mean the B-list "allies," yeah. They should have tried harder.
1) You assume that there is some unified entity called "US" that is able to act in its best interest. Clearly not the case.
2) You assume China's won't learn about the plan and if they learn they will not act.
In fact, very likely some Congresscritter would learn about such plan before it could even be executed, use it to criticize the president in public forum. As a response, China would immediately and quietly start to get rid of US dollars en masse, probably using some sort of derivative schema, which would hide it for some time. This would happen before US could even agree on any sort of plan. As it would become apparent in a couple months that China is dumping US dollars, it would simply dump the rest of them in bulk, causing the dollar to lose all the remaining value. Now all the US allies, those who didn't dump US dollars as well, are left holding useless currency and they lost on all the debt they were owed. They will demand US to repurchase all of the US dollars dumped on market to drive the currency back up. This is not gonna happen. US will be facing a lot of angry countries demanding some sort of reparations. All the US foreign trade will cease immediatelly. The fact that US is not self-sufficient in almost any area and the US dollar being worthless will start draining the country of all its natural resources, because that is the only thing they can use to pay for what they need by now. In another 10 years, US would be a shell of a country. At this point US will use their only remaining option and declare war on China and use their military to shore themselves up economically. But at this point US has no allies and no goodwill at the UN. The result is a war of US against the rest of the world.
So good luck with your brilliant economic plan. Your advisers had to be some brilliant thinkers.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
I love a late-night splash of Realpolitik!
The only thing I disagree with is that it would be in China's interest if everybody switched to the RMB. In 15 years, maybe. Once their domestic economy is strong enough to fill those ghost cities, they'll be in a position where it would help them. Right now, they'd lose the farm; the RMB would rise until it hit market value, their manufacturing would crash, then people would start trading it for Dollars and Euros, and they'd be powerless to keep control of it.
I don't think their position here is that serious at all. They're just making throw-away noises for domestic consumption. And their real fantasy is that Europe would relax protection of key industries, and go "cheap imported" like the US. Then they'd have enough euros coming in to want that to be the global reserve.
The world has always been free to do what it wants. In the past, the US was a logical choice because of the size and stability of our economy. It seems to me that anybody who really believes in free trade would welcome a worldwide currency. I think the US would be fine with purely capitalist markets setting the exchange rates - would everyone else be OK with that?
Greed is the root of all evil.
Things are already in progress.
If they floated the renminbi US manufacturing stocks would go through the roof even while Wallyworld was liquidating. The value of the dollar would go up.
If the world economy crashed or not, or how badly, would all depend on the amount of warning.
There is no evidence of them trying to create something else; all there is evidence of is strongly worded newspaper editorials. We have those, too.
Wishful thinking on the part of China. U.S economy is based on military industry well-being. What they suppose to do with warehouses full of weapons?
Notice the constant pressure by administrations to invade country after country to unload those bombs.
Recent Syria events are not helping either, warehouses are overflowing and we can be sure they will find a new target.
Yes, because it's so hard to buy a collocated server in China. You've not actually read any of the recent revelations about NSA practices, have you?
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
The US has gone to war a number of times (it is claimed) to prevent countries trading oil in currencies other than the Dollar. Some of those claims might border on conspiracy theories, but it remains that the tactics to keep oil trading based on the U.S. Dollar look remarkably like 'force'.
Etymology note: Petroleum is latin for 'Rock Oil' (Petra, rock + Oleum, oil, from the Latin for Olive.). When we created that abbreviation, Petrodollars, dollars for oil, all that was left of the oil was the 'o'. The word looks more like 'Rock 'o Dollars, doesn't it?
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
You mean inflation is another form of default. That is, I print a trillion dollars to pay off the debt I owe you, now Good luck buying a loaf of bread!
The US economic empire is no different from any of it's predecessors.
1: China waged economic warfare with the US by pegging their currency; the fact spending their surplus leads to inflation devaluing the value of said savings below the purchase cost is a direct consequence of that decision. Nobody has any sympathy for them, specially the millions of Americans displaced from jobs by them.
2: The American Government is not representative of the people, we've been Jerrymander'd and interest group'd to death. We did not approve of the 2008 bailouts; The current government shutdown is a classic struggle between republican kickbacks to large medical companies (E.G. exemptions from Robinson Patman) and democratic kickbacks to the poor. What Americans really want is to can both, which, entertainingly enough, that act would make our socialist healthcare system solvent and every other countries socialist healthcare system insolvent overnight (Our prices drop 10x, their prices rise 10x). Congress is out of rope and has to choose sides and if they don't choose ours the country is done.
The Chinese are correct about THAT part but their government is an illegitimate socialist plutocracy. This is a government with literal death squads roaming the countryside (complete with organ harvesting) that employs 2 million thought police to patrol the internet. The Chinese Socialist party is seeing their international power wane because foreign countries view it as less costly to deploy scalar machinery and robotics in manufacturing rather than the cost of slave labor and concessions said party demands.
3: More to the point, the Federal Government disassembled the last Tea Party movement and the consequence is they've now radicalized the remaining dissidents. Those dissidents now march on capitol buildings en masse, armed (Funny how the guys in black ski masks don't show up to THOSE protests and begin starting shit...); they request sheriffs to write letters to the federal government telling them to stay the hell off the state's land, they request representatives write laws making the intrastate manufacture and sale of class 3 weapons legal. You can only say "everyone believes this just go away" so long until your delusional and alone. When those groups reach critical mass, and that will happen soon, the Federal government will be left without any tools to fight them; they have no legitimacy and the usual methods of breaking up disruptive protests are not going to work against an armed crowd.
The banks LOVE mortgage debt.. it lets them dream up money. Don't tell me that they didn't lobby for all those changes.
* It's entirely backed by assets, thus it's much less risky than loans to business
Unfortunately, once a house is a house, it's a house. It's not going to be more of a house next year. They don't increase in actual real value, but their price goes up.
If you lend to a business, you have to contend with the idea that your money may disappear entirely and you may never recover it due to bankruptcy law.
* It provides capital growth with no investment or effort
Because property values go up, the banks can invent more money, again "risk free".
Banks LOVE (and lobby in favour of) government programs that encourage house buying because it gives them a license to print money, which equates with power.
bankcuprcy:
-hide what you can from the feds.
-pay the elites first (they can kneecap you)
-pay your friends next (they might help you again later)
-fuck the smaller suppliers
-fuck the contractors
-fuck the employees
GJ businessman, you get to start a new business thanks to your
great business skills at not paying back debts and running away from
failure.
china's products that they flooded the world markets with is of such poor quality and made with such poor material and terrible workmanship that i would rather see china embargoed until they start building products better
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
this sounds like a good idea. But then please not with China as the new superpower. I want to live in a world composed of many smaller, financially well-equilibrated states, without superpowers.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
It's not often I agree with the party line of the Chinese government, but this sounds pretty damn reasonable and correct. Thank you, Tea Party, you've made us all so proud....
China is one the main things backing the dollar value, default on them and the dollar drops.
And how the US is going to pay the debt? Default on China and print even more money to pay the entire debt?
Your economics seems pretty sound.
Meanwhile in the real world China is doing direct money swaps with every US "ally". The world "trusts" China, they've got cheat to back up their money.
I'm not seeing any evidence to support that. Going by recent history, the US seems perfectly happy to trample over its allies to secure its putative interests.
I don't see much evidence for this. For allies, the US hegemony has been predominantly benign. For a comparison, look at the various 'allies' the Russians had during the cold war.
I think your confusion may stem from your definition of ally, which I imagine includes unwilling vassals.
An ally is someone you share a joint interest with. Someone who has something unique to offer that some random other doesn't have (such as cultural ties, great resources or a strategic location), and vice-versa. The relationship is one of 'you scratch my back, I scratch your back, because we both want to or need to'. An ally is someone whose interests you will occasionally put before your own when the situation demands it.
A vassal is someone who serves your interest. The relationship is like employer vs employee (you scratch my back for a reward) or master vs servant (you scratch my back or else). You don't reward a vassal more than his services are worth to you, and occasionally one will be made redundant in favor of another one.
If your country doesn't have special cultural ties with the US, and has nothing unique to offer, you're deluding yourself if you think you are an ally. You're a vassal.
Because letting the global economy get taken hostage by a bunch of illiterate yahoos who hate healthcare is fucking stupid.
Can you at least tell which pirate party are you member of? I.e. which country? Because I feel exactly the same way and I feel like I should join...
I don't know the solutions to the problems the world is facing right now, and until we solve decentralization and collaboration and error-control in decision making, there won't be any real solutions. But I feel that we absolutely must keep the internet free until such solutions can be found.
That could happen. As soon as China has something to offer. USA has a laundry list or positive qualities, all China can say is "we got cheap labor"
USA loves all their neighbours. But some get lube before being loved up the arse...and others get the barbed wire condom. And even if you say Yes, you still end up somehow feeling soiled and used.
The US has no intent of ever paying down its debt. The debt will grow in perpetuity.
I just put so much cum in my girlfriend's asshole there's no way I can eat this all by myself.
I've been saying for awhile that the smartest thing the US could do would be to get behind a world government NOW, while it still has the clout. It's been obvious for a decade now that the US's time in the spotlight is up. History tells us it couldn't go on forever. If you're thinking 'too big to fail', look at the Roman Empire. THAT was too big to fail. Or the British one.
If the US were as smart as they like to believe, they'd see the writing on the wall now and get behind providing more authority to the world bodies which work to ensure that countries treat each other in a civilized manner, because the US is REALLY going to wish they had down the road, when we're all talking about the ______ian/ise/etc Empire.
Min
On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
Why haven't people demanded that the government gets dissolved and a new vote be held?
If republicans, or any single party is holding the country hostage, then the only course of action is to demand a new vote, and right away.
The people have the power not goddamn rich-boy republicans, if there ever was a time, now would be a time to show it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
+1 TRUE!
It is a great idea to have a "world currency" as global interchange currency. Therefore, no country would be able to just print money to buy new resources. However, this is only going to work when the average of countries join such system. However, the USA is not going to commit themselves to it, as they are primarily the profiteer of the present model, where everyone else must buy resources in a foreign currency, but the USA (not totally true, as some trade are made in Euro and Yuan).
TheRaven64 is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
Gee. I thought they would be content being 2nd place. Spreading FUD to undermine your enemy and suggest a solution that benefits themselves is what world powers and businesses do. PS. Microsoft also thinks that android handsets/tablets are garbage and is calling for a De-androidized world.
you think that US manufacturing would suddenly be competitive on the world stage, just because it became more expensive to manufacture in China?
US imports would either find somewhere else to go for cheap crap, or would build it themselves - but in the latter case, the goods produced would have to be more expensive (its just that they would all become more expensive, no-one could undercut competitors by outsourcing to china anymore) and that would kill off any consumer-led recoveries. And goods not produced in the US (eg electronics) would become more expensive still. And your exports would drop dramatically as the dollar strengthens compounding the problem.
I came here expecting a lot of dumb comments calling Americans 'Murricans' and other ignorant crap. I was not disapointed either.
If the US defaults on anyone it will be screwed because no-one will want to lend it money at good rates any more. Doesn't matter if the US claims China or whoever wasn't playing fair so it's okay, investors will just see that for the lame excuse to dump on anyone those choose that it is. Kind of like how the US can declare anyone they like an "enemy combatant" and ignore their rights, they would just declare anyone they didn't want to pay a cheater and default.
Something like that already happened in the UK. When Iceland's banks failed we froze their assets using anti-terror legislation on the grounds that it might hurt our economy. Now everyone considers the UK a less safe place to hold assets because if things get bad the government might declare you a terrorist and freeze them. If they can use anti-terror laws against Iceland they can use them against anyone.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
You know, reading Chinese state media is always funny to me. They're always so friendly when they talk about changing the way the monetary system works, and they do the same thing on other topics.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
If only there were some kind of site where nerds could read news about stuff.
As I foreigner - don't worry, I have my pop corn ready. It will be the Biggest Most Amazing Party ever.
Although I will lose everything I own due to it, it is still going to be fun to watch how in the USA they still just blame R v.s. D while everything spirals down the drain.
As long as this new reserve currency is either gold, silver or Bitcoin. Otherwise it's just a new global ponzi scheme waiting to happen. The last thing the world needs a a new fiat issued by private banks like the ones in the Fed (Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, JP Morgan, CitiBank etc...).
Let's hope so.
I don't mean they should hand the world to the Chinese, but change is definitely needed. Big change, not Obama-sized "change".
OTOH I don't see where that change could possibly come from. The people don't look like they're going to revolt anytime soon, and the NSA is busy making revolt ever more difficult.
No sig today...
It's the only way to move past this stupid, broken, obsolete economic system.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
More to the point, the Federal Government disassembled the last Tea Party movement and the consequence is they've now radicalized the remaining dissidents.
Oh, please. The Tea Party movement has never been anything but angry young white men & retirees cluelessly carrying water for the rich.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I came here for the punch and pie. Sadly, I *was* disappointed.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
It's called Gold, Silver and Bitcoin. Anything else with fiat garbage.
Engineers. The Snowden leaks have been a wakeup call to the security and networking communities. Sure, we always "knew" that stuff wasn't really secure, but when something is shown to be actively being exploited, people tend to sit up and take notice.
Nascent and floundering security and privacy projects have been galvanised by the realisation, and work seems now underway apace, to rebuild erstwhile accepted habits on solid cryptographic ground.
The privacy and security you seek on the Internet, will not come from the laws of politicians, decisions of courts, or blood of protesters. It will come from the mathematics of cryptography, and the collaboration of engineers worldwide, working in the background for the liberty of us all.
It's called Gold, Silver and Bitcoin. Anything else is fiat garbage. The world needs honest money.
If only there were some kind of site where nerds could read news about stuff.
there are
it's just that you do not know where to look
It will take the US a long time to restart/retool their manufacturing that require skilled workers that have been disposed of.
Where are the chips and electronic parts being made? Most of them are in the far East like China, Taiwan, Korea.
And good that. Unless, of course, you'd prefer that the Central Party, and not the US Treasury, is the final guarantor of the money you've loaned. A risk, I doubt, many of you (and many Central Banks) wish to take.
Or in short: the US will fulfill its obligations to allies and creditors who've played the game in good faith. To China and others who've gamed the system-- well, that's another story, and in the next days and weeks, we may very well see, what action the US can use, to re-balance the sheets.
Well, If US treasury defaults on ANY of it's debts i'd give the next loan to a party that hasn't defaulted yet. Be it Central Party, or Switzerland, or Europe, or Russia, or anyone. US isn't exactly trustworthy anyways. The only thing US has is a strong economy, but even that seems to be on the edge of collapsing under huge amounts of wealth accumulation to the very tiny portion of people, who basically just hoard it instead of putting it back into circulation. Chinese economy is only going to go up, and it doesn't need anyone outside of china to do just that. Their internal markets are HUGE.
America might even lose a good proportion of it's military too though. Any default would allow host nations to seize US government assets. They'd better hope they've got no carriers docked in ports of allied nations with a full compliment of F-35s on board and half the crew on shore leave if it were to happen. I imagine there's a whole host of nations that would be grateful for such a prize to seize to pay for a US debt default.
And like most bailiffs, nation states often tend to undervalue these things and seize a little more in practice than they're owed - a $10bn carrier for a $6bn debt for example.
You are forgetting South America.
If the dollar becomes cheap there will be a huge demand down there for US products (it already does have some demand, but not huge because of the prices).
you think that US manufacturing would suddenly be competitive on the world stage, just because it became more expensive to manufacture in China?
US imports would either find somewhere else to go for cheap crap, or would build it themselves - but in the latter case, the goods produced would have to be more expensive (its just that they would all become more expensive, no-one could undercut competitors by outsourcing to china anymore) and that would kill off any consumer-led recoveries. And goods not produced in the US (eg electronics) would become more expensive still. And your exports would drop dramatically as the dollar strengthens compounding the problem.
So basically you are trying to say having consumers work in factories that actually produce something would somehow be worse than having them all serve eachothers? The things would be more expensive because the workers(consumers) would get paid more than in chine. The money would end up right back in the local US economy. In history that has only been a great thing. Now the money ends up in China, and in the pockets of some fat cats, who do not spend it. On the other hand, because of those money sinks the US can just keep printing money without inflating it too much.
And the result of that war would be a great big radioactive burn-stain in the place of whoever opposed the US (and possibly another big one on the US if whoever they were facing down was a nuclear power). At least follow through on your train of thought.
This is why no one understands the gun laws, the main pro gun argument is "we might need to stand against the government"
Their government is screwing them over all the time, no one is revolting or standing up to it.
US imports would either find somewhere else to go for cheap crap, or would build it themselves - but in the latter case, the goods produced would have to be more expensive (its just that they would all become more expensive, no-one could undercut competitors by outsourcing to china anymore) and that would kill off any consumer-led recoveries. And goods not produced in the US (eg electronics) would become more expensive still. And your exports would drop dramatically as the dollar strengthens compounding the problem.
Labor is a lot cheaper in China, India, Brazil. But shipping all of these things back to the US for consumption is very expensive. So, in the end, do you know how much more expensive for consumers electronics would be if they were built in the US instead of in China? Roughly 7%. That's it. With the increasing manufacturing costs happening in China right now, predictions are that it won't be cheaper to manufacturer in China anymore in as early as 2015.
Trust me, the situation for the US isn't nearly as bad as you believe. Well, the situation Congress is creating is exactly as bad as everyone claims, and if we were to default on our bonds we are literally killing the financial stability of this nation. The outsourcing of manufacturing issue? Eh...it has never been a problem.
It's amazing how nobody in the media was talking about the problem of Gerrymandering 2007-2009...I wonder why?
Probably because 2010 was the last census, after which the districts were required to be re-drawn, so this is all recent history and therefore gets reported on. Because the Republicans had just swept into power after the 2010 elections, they were able to draw districts favorably for themselves. This doesn't mean Democrats wouldn't/haven't done it, just that the most recent use of gerrymandering has been just a couple years ago by Republicans.
Ultimately, I'm wondering if we can't push for an open source algorithm for computing districts based on population centers? This way, it cannot be political, it is open source and verifyable.
Better crypto tech is all fine and well, but that's not going to bring any kind of change to the US government; it's still in the hands of the voters, who aren't going to use that crypto tech because "they have nothing to hide" and because they're generally Fox News or MSNBC-watching idiots.
I can see other nations, including China, acting together, bringing much more change to the global state of politics, and consequently to the US. They have the power to do so (especially if they act together), and if the world's reserve currency switches from the USD to something else, that's going to cause massive changes for everyday Americans.
In their mind, it's surely a question of "how far is too far?", and the government simply hasn't gone so far yet to warrant using any kind of violence against it (since that is obviously a giant step filled with enormous personal risk). They just want to keep the option available just in case. At least I imagine this is the thinking of most people who subscribe to that argument.
We're all living in America
America is wonderful
We're all living in America
America, America
When there's dancing I want to lead
even if you're whirling around alone
Let yourselves be controlled a little
I'll show you how it really goes
We're making a nice round dance
Freedom is playing on all violins
Music is coming out of the White House
and Mickey Mouse is standing in front of Paris
We're all living in America
America is wonderful
We're all living in America
America, America
I know moves that are very useful
and I will protect you from missteps
And whoever doesn't want to dance at the end
doesn't know yet that they must
We're making a nice round dance
I will show you the way
Santa Claus is coming to Africa
and Mickey Mouse is standing in front of Paris
We're all living in America
America is wonderful
We're all living in America
America, America
We're all living in America
Coca-Cola, Wonderbra
We're all living in America
America, America
This is not a love song
This is not a love song
I don't sing my mother tongue
No, This is not a love song
We're all living in America
America is wonderful
We're all living in America
America, America
We're all living in America
Coca-Cola, sometimes war
We're all living in America
America, America
*I* got punch and pie. Sucks to be you.
Oh come on!!! China adopted the metric system in the 1900's. And the US?
You're setting yourself up to fail! Join the 21st century America, before it's too late.
We need honest money as a replacement for the world reserve currency not more fiat.
http://youtu.be/TfHEz4plxtg
It will never happen anyway, if would be the people vs the government, which means the military. The military won't do as they did in Egypt and mediate, they will follow orders.
It would be assault rifle gun nuts against the US Army.
Since the purpose of the debt ceiling legislation is to avoid borrowing more than we can repay, it ought to have automatic revenue functions should borrowing reach the ceiling. The 14th Amendment requires no less. A suitable revenue measure would be to impose tariffs on imports from debt holders. This can assure confidence that the debt will be honored.
Yeah, it's totally ignorant to rip on Americans when their political incompetence - of the people, not the politicians - when this idiocy is holding the world ransom.Show yourself as a thinking nation and stop re-electing the Republicans who do this shit, then we'll talk about ripping on America being "ignorant".
toresbe
Like just before WWI? Sounds awesome.
Have you been paying attention to advances in robotics lately? And when push comes to shove, Americans work harder than most any nation on earth....
When we're not being distracted by the Tea Party that is.
The idea of the US military shooting at fellow Americans seems pretty silly. Moreover, most people in the military probably come from the "red states" themselves, so they'd not only be fighting their own countrymen, but people from their own regions and hometowns. It's not like all the jarheads in the Army grew up in NYC and San Francisco.
China's booming industrial economy needs resources, while we are searching for an exit from the world-policeman role that has been ours since WW II. Now that we're on the path to fossil fuel independence, why not just quietly let it be known on high diplomatic levels that the Middle East is China's for the taking. China needs the oil and minerals, and the Middle East needs a few generations of iron-fisted colonial rule to bring civilization back to it.The Taliban, al Qaeda and the Saudi Wahhabi would simply never be seen again. This kind of arrangement could be the last chance for Islam to regain its lost scientific and technological heritage
While I understand what you're saying, I think your example is a poor choice... It would be foolish for a foreign country to attempt to sieze a military asset like an aircraft carrier -- it would be viewed as an act of war. Trying to blockade a carrier trying to leave a port is going to result in a huge mess.
Please, stop posting theories backed by facts, stick to 'the whole world agrees with the US and will do everything to save them because they are the Hero' script.
The world (and many American conspiracy theorists) don't grasp the concept of an all-volunteer armed forces. Most of them are reservists...and may be working in the next cubicle/office next to you. The fulltimers are your neighbors, your coworkers' kids, and random people from mainstream society. They are not going to be shooting their friends and family. Small units might take up loyalty to the US government, but I expect most of the military would disobey orders directed against their countrymen.
The greatest encourager of apathy in Americans is that their lives are not very disrupted yet. Their TV shows are on, they get to buy the latest iPhone or Android, and they can shop at the mall or watch a movie at will. Most live in large houses and apartments and own cars. Until there is a serious disruption of Americans' every day lives, we won't see more than isolated protests like the one at the NSA data center in Utah or the OWS, or the Washington memorial protests a day or so ago.
There is a lot of concern that what US people would be fighting wouldn't be fellow Americans, but people hired by military contractors. One could imagine the fear if a contractor had a division of mercenary warfighters from foreign (likely Middle Eastern) backgrounds, who have absolutely nothing in common with the average American, be it religion, morals, language, history, humor, or whatnot.
That is what would happen if there were an internal conflict. It wouldn't be Americans versus Americans, it would be top tier fighters from almost anywhere.
Oh, and there wouldn't be much fighting once the VX gas canisters go flying into barns and small towns. A couple gassed civilians from "gifts" by a few unmanned UAVs, and you will see mass surrender just like one saw during the first Iraq invasion.
And their real fantasy is that Europe would relax protection of key industries, and go "cheap imported" like the US. Then they'd have enough euros coming in to want that to be the global reserve.
It appears most Americans don't even know what they're dealing with, I think their media have been teaching them the world only has one set of rules and everyone around the world is playing by it.
It's not a fantasy when China can buy their companies directly. When you have enough cash to buy their local companies you can bypass a lot of protectionism bullshit.
Thanks to the financial crisis, major Americans/European companies in various industry have been selling major brands to foreigners, we're talking about major brands with 100+ years of history. Such as McVities (since 1830s) is already sold to the Chinese (a large chunk of it).
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/05/29/187029237/smithfield-foods-to-be-sold-to-chinese-firm-for-4-72-billion
May 29, 2013 9:27 AM
Smithfield Foods, makers of ham products under a variety of brand names, is being purchased by Chinese food maker Shuanghui International, for $4.72 billion in cash.
The makers of Smithfield Ham, an icon on America's culinary scene for decades, are selling the publicly traded company to China's Shuanghui International Holdings Limited for about $4.72 billion in cash. The deal also includes an exchange of debt.
The purchase values Smithfield Foods at $7.1 billion — a figure that would make the purchase "the largest Chinese takeover of a U.S. company," according to Bloomberg News.
Never underestimate the power of a trillions in cash.
The idea of the US military shooting at fellow Americans seems pretty silly. Moreover, most people in the military probably come from the "red states" themselves, so they'd not only be fighting their own countrymen, but people from their own regions and hometowns. It's not like all the jarheads in the Army grew up in NYC and San Francisco.
It won't be the military; it will be the increasingly-militarized "civilian" cops. For all practical purposes, they've become a standing army in their own right. All they need is a unified command structure. Besides, civilian cops are exempt from niceties like the Chemical Weapons Convention. The army using CS gas against soldiers: war crime. Cops using CS gas against citizens: perfectly OK.
Oh, no! You have walked into the slavering fangs of a lurking grue!
India is a democracy. There are natural and artificial limitations on natural resources exploitation. And lets keep it like that. Russia and Canada are geographically big, but cannot even match the headcounts of a medium sized Indian city / state. They are not competition. Canada depends on immigrants. Their biggest export other than oil is tasty maple syrup. Russia is a basket case. Their biggest export in 21st century - other than oil - seems to be Krokodil.
.NET. The effect of this blanketing should not be overlooked. The world NEED programmers, and India will provide the numbers. There is no company similar to Infosys, TCS or Wipro anywhere else in this planet. Any complaint about the quality of programmers are moot...if you have 10 American programmers, you will find 2 good ones, 4 okay, and the rest mediocre. This is the same with Indians. The number of programmers are high, so the number of mediocre programmers are also high increasing the perception "Indians are horrible". Bullshit!!! Some of the best positions in the world of software are held by Indians. Look at the number of Indians occupying top spot at Google.
China exports hardware. India exports software.
There is no country which can match Chinese hardware / manufacturing base in scale and ambition. There might be niches in certain industries, but overall China is unbeatable.
India is the software powerhouse. Your gripe about call centers, pronunciations of Indians, poor quality of software code miss the big picture. The big picture is simply the fact India is a predominantly young country, with a huge English speaking computer literate population. Every Indian city and town have billboards shouting words like Java or
Both India and China countries US to remain stable and strong as its their biggest market. No American or European will plan on dumping Chinese hardware for Indian hardware. Likewise no-one will dump Indian software for Chinese or Brazilian.
Tat Tvam Asi
That is tough talk, but a fool's conclusion. There are no winners in nuclear war. Just imagine Fukishima on a grand scale and you will realize the folly of your statement.
No, its crawling its way out of a mess caused by leftist interferance in commercila activities
What color is the sky in your world?
P.S. We'll send a dictionary to your planet if you want to learn how to spell English correctly.
Free hat!
The ironic thing is that I have found that this is different where I am. I've had extreme interest in things which people have ignored for decades, from creating PGP/gpg keys for secure E-mail/messaging, to using other social networks, or just using encryption apps on top of SMS. Just basic things like getting people to care about private keys was like pulling teeth. Now, people are highly interested in protecting data in a reasonable way.
Believe it or not, I've had people interested in PGP/gpg keysigning gatherings, something I've not seen happen since the mid-1990s.
So, a lot of people still are uninterested in crypto, but the "nothing to hide" is becoming, "I keep my doors locked to protect against thieves."
This doesn't sound like much, but it is a start.
That's an interesting scenario, but I still see a couple of problems:
1) Ok, the government could go hire a bunch of mercenaries from the middle east and use chemical WMDs from drones (which would then need to be operated by mercenaries as well; currently they're operated by Americans stationed in Nevada IIRC). However, you seem to be forgetting the huge military that America already has. You don't think that it's going to rise up and attack the government (and its mercenaries) after being sidelined like this and asked to sit back while WMDs are used against its own countrymen? There's national guardspeople everywhere, along with NG armories. Your average redneck with an AR-15 or AK-47 isn't much threat to one of Obama's drones, but anti-aircraft guns from your local National Guard armory certainly are. And who knows what other weapons they have stashed, perhaps Stinger missiles? Maybe some NG people might have some better perspective here.
2) The Iraqis never surrendered, not really. They're still fighting; there's still a lot of violence in Iraq because the different groups are not happy with things. Now, they call them "insurgents". The same thing would surely happen here; the malcontents would lay low for a while, and then conduct various guerilla warfare operations (called "terrorist acts" by the government of course) against any authorities: police, troops, politicians, etc.
China's economy relies on countries going to it for cheap labor. If it can't undercut other countries on manufacturing costs, it's economy will collapse. Europe also isn't doing so well with a stable currency.
China wants the UN to call the shots globally because it and Russia have significant influence in the UN. This is another chapter in China's push to become the "world leader."
Yes, the US has the NSA, which was using PRISM. What's being left out of the discussion is that every major country in the world has similar programs, including Canada, Germany, and the UK. Keep in mind the Snowden releases only showed the "friendly" nations. The programs being run by countries like Iran, Russia, and China are much more frightening.
Yes, but even if tons of Americans suddenly jumped on the crypto bandwagon and ditched Facebook or whatever, it's not going to cause any kind of change in the US government or its policies. The voters are still going to vote the same way. The only difference will be that the NSA will have a harder time spying on everyone.
I'm having trouble thinking of a Chinese retail brand name that a majority of people worldwide have heard of. Same thing for Russia. Even India (Bollywood doesn't count).
By picking only one side of the shit sandwich to call out, you've done a fantastic job of displaying your own political incompetence while calling out an entire country on it.
Well done, that.
Most people in the military are not posted near their home towns. If mobilized in their locality they would be facing strangers with guns who are trying to kill them. Their information access would be restricted (where possible).
They may rebel or walk eventually out but not immediately. Not until they were certain that they were "on the wrong side". Otherwise it is just terrorists and insurgents with weapons trying to overthrow the constitution and government. (basically not much different to most people but with strictly enforced hierarchical command drummed into them)
For a while the military will do what they are asked to do unless a conspiracy in high command positions undermines the goal set by the government (as in Eygpt)
2: The American Government is not representative of the people, we've been Jerrymander'd and interest group'd to death.
It's spelled Gerrymander, fun fact why, b/c it's named after Elbridge Gerry and the salamander like district he drew in Mass. And to give you an idea of how long ago people were playing this game, he signed the Declaration of Independence. So remember kids, the next time somebody talks about Gerrymandering, recognize that shit's been going since the birth of the republic.
I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
You mean inflation is another form of default.
The phrase "default ... by inflation" pretty much says it all.
On the other hand, a first step towards a global currency is surely a small step forwards in human social evolution.
Preach on Tovarish, the next small step forwards in human social evolution is to round up all the kulaks!
I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
You, like so many other whackjobs miss the elephant that's stomping on your feet in your rush to build a scenario in which the US becomes nothing but a shell.
The absolute last thing that China wants to do is crash the US economy. They, unlike you, know damn well what happens after one of the world's largest exporters and importers drops offline... Europe and Japan (I.E. the balance of China's significant trading partners) follow, maybe as much as a week later. Guess what happens to China in that event?
That macho, has-been? The one with the pickup truck on blocks, in his yard, and the bed lined with empty Coors Lite cans?
Yeah. That's America.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
> Oh come on!!! China adopted the metric system in the 1900's. And the US?
The US has been using metric for decades now. Individuals employ it as needed to deal with intolerant trading partners. No fascist style national mandate is required.
Once you have high precision measuring devices, one arbitrarily defined unit of measure is much like another.
You might as well fixate over blue versus green for all that it really matters.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
the creation of a new international reserve currency to replace the present reliance on U.S. dollars.
That would be great China. Give us a call when there is open renminbi convertibility.
Is it time America cut the aid to these "greatful" nations? It sounds like they're ready to "leave the nest."
Yeah, we don't want this but if we are forced, I can put away the keyboard and pick up something else for my country and family.
The privacy and security you seek on the Internet, will not come from the laws of politicians, decisions of courts, or blood of protesters. It will come from the mathematics of cryptography, and the collaboration of engineers worldwide, working in the background for the liberty of us all.
Anyone seeking privacy and security on public networks, phone systems, mail, or any other public system is an idiot.
Kinda of like people on facebook getting all indignant because someone they don't know might see a photo they posted. It's not *YOUR* server, or network, or email system. Wanting privacy is one thing, being surprised because you don't get it is naive.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
You're right that seizing an aircraft carrier would never work, best case nothing would happen and the aircraft carrier would sail home after a big scandal, worst case there would be all out war. They could easily however evict a military base (and there are PLENTY of those around the world that aren't on US soil). give them a month or two notice and tell them to get out. Most likely outcome would be that the nation in question would get a military base, minus the actual military hardware, and the US would be unlikely to be willing to go to war over it.
Like just before WWI? Sounds awesome.
Nope, the problem that formed WW1 was too many superpowers, then called the "Great Powers"
This is the proverbial shot across the bow.
The enemy of the USA is really China. The have been building up an offensive capability from nuclear submarines, supercarriers, strategic bombers, stealth fighter clones, C-17 clones, etc etc.
They hold the mortgage on the USA which is owned by China where the USA seeks a new mortgage every year -- this started with Clinton in the 90's. I would recomend reading the "Japanese Imperial Conspiracy" as it appears to match the approach of the Chinese Government.
Hiring Chinse nationals in critical american industries is bad. In Canada they have made this a national policy thru the employment equity act where they steal technology. I seem to remember a chinese national was accused of stealing american nuclear secrets -- well d'ohhhh. Wake up and smell the coffee. China only alows communist party members to emigrate from china to the west. Do the math.
But China isn't asking for the RMB to become a reserve currency. But rather that there's a SUPRA-national currency. Basically an INTERNATIONAL currency, that belongs to no nation.
Mod parent up. There were then, indeed, the so-called "great powers" - France, Germany, Russia, Turkey, Great Britain - all eaten up by the moth of nationalism. I would like to think that, today, we are wiser.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
In that case go on the whiskey standard. When there's too much money around, consume it.
(I normally favor mono-crystaline silicon, but there are signs that that may soon be replaced in actual use. Whiskey is stable, storable, and valuable even if the market collapses.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
No. There have been universal standards before. Gold, e.g.
I don't really think much of BitCoin as a currency. It has several features that favor it, but it has no utility in and of itself. Its only value is it's scarcity, and that dissipates with increase in computational power.
What I really favor is something difficult to acquire and capable of being made anywhere, and useful. For the past several decades I favored the monocrystaline silicon standard. Currently, due to signs that it may be replaced in utility, I favor the whiskey standard. This has the defect that different manufacturers produce notably different varieties, so arguements about relative values could be expected. But it would retain it's value even if civilization collapsed.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
China is completely self-sufficient except for food. In case of such crash, it can pick and choose who it will get the food from, because they will have what matters, the means of production of everyday necessary consumer goods. The central planing government will help them navigate through any crises much more smoothly, because they can do things that other governments won't be able to easily. What are we exporting that they really need? Boeings? Missiles? Rockets? Movies? Professional Services? Hehe. Yeah, right. While we won't be able to even wipe our asses. I've been through one toilet paper shortage in my life, don't want to go through another :)
If the markets melt down, I would bet my money on BRIC to recover from it as the world collection of superpowers. That's unless US will go the military route I described.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
China tried to have its cake and eat it too. They pegged their currency artificially low vs the USD to make their exports cheap, which means they had to accumulate USD. Now they're holding a giant bag of increasingly worthless USDs. I like the way Peter Schiff puts it: the US has a great deal. It gets goods from China in exchange for worthless USD paper.
He'll prove you wrong, just by going out to the store and noting the little-changed price of a half-gallon of ice cream.
Try it yourself.
Note: a half-gallon of ice cream.
I bought this house and you know I'm boss
Ain't no h'aint gonna run me off
Welcome to global Asian rule where the enemies are blue eyes, resurrection, carnivorism and duality.
We will all be ruled by those so different that they have no concept of the individual and cannot properly metabolize ethanol.
Welcome to the REAL RED DAWN.
Sorry but you are talking bollocks. Go and look at a recipe book. You won't find grams it will be ounces. Or even the dumb ass *cup*!
As for you're blue green analogy. The whole idea of the metric system is so everyone can understand it, that commons sense, not a mandate. The same reason everyone uses the same symbols for numbers.
The European and Asian construction workers know what centimetres are, why need to convert into however eighths of an inch it is?
Only an idiot can't see it's progress and common sense to change to metrics.
From GP:
as my economics professors (Reagan advisers)
They were probably the ones that got us into this mess in the first place.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Aren't we talking about the same guys that walked in front of the White House with a Confederate Flag? Judged by their policies and racial makeup, americans should be forgiving with foreigners that think that Lincoln was a Democrat and Jefferson Davis Republican.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
Big change, not Obama-sized "change".
What exactly are you implying about our president, and more importantly, how do you know? Have you been to the Oval Office and seen his "change?" Or perhaps you heard it from the First Lady?
In fact, I'd like to know how the size of his "change" is even relevant to the current discussion at hand.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
This can and has happened. U.S. walks away, a bit annoyed but frankly moves on. If you don't want us there, then we'll leave. Just don't expect us to come running to your defense later.
You don't have to lose everything you own. Buy gold.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Well, he DID say they were Reagen advisers, didn't he?
Correction:
Buy something valuable that isn't taxed after you buy it. Gold is nice, because it's portable, but nearly anything valuable will do. Real estate is bad, because there's a continuing tax on it. Steel ingots are a bit difficult to move. Wheat doesn't store well. So many people prefer gold. It's bright, shiney, malleable, etc.
But note, buying gold is only reasonable if you actually take possession of it. Promissary notes aren't worth much more than dollars. And if you take possession of it, you need to worry a lot more about theives. Because they also like things that are valuable, anonymous, and portable. Safe deposit boxes aren't much more reliable than the banks that offer them, and they also represent an on-going expense. Etc.
There are many reasons why gold has gone out of fashion. Perhaps the best investment would be wood for violin bodies. That appreciates in value for generations while it's seasoning. But disposing of it is a bother, storing it properly is a bother, and there are recurrent promisses of a technical fix that will allow wood that isn't seasoned over the long term to serve as well. You'd need to be an expert in that area to evaluate the worth of the idea (which I'm not...there aren't many).
But why gold? Irridium or platinum would be as reasonable, and probably better unless civilization really collapses, in which case whiskey would be a better choice. Gold prices, the reasonably high, are artificially inflated by monetary speculators...and that popularity waxes and wanes. It's currently higher than it has been several times during my lifetime.
P.S.: If we ever start extracting uranium from the ocean, gold will fall out automatically as a secondary result, and the market will crash seriously. And it would currently be energetically efficient to do the extraction. It's just that other ores are easier and cheaper. But if we DO start, we'll get LOTS of other elements nearly automatically. It wouldn't pay to do it for gold, not even at the currently inflated prices, but it could pay to do it for uranium. And if we start doing it, you know we'll discover more efficient ways that we currently know about. So gold isn't safe over the long term.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Drones don't have friends, kids, or neighbors.
We could have survived Reagan. I'm not thrilled with the chances he took (or his social policies), but he did end the cold war. Clinton was actively reducing the deficit...which is probably why he ran into trouble. (You don't really think that was about possibly smoking a joint in college and screwing an willing aide do you? Be serious.)
Well, the presidents since then seem to have taken the warning, and none of them have done ANYTHING calculated to reduce the deficit.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
The problem is, who do you trust enough to run that currency? Certainly no country throughout all of history has been that trustworthy. Except, possibly, Croessus and Darius...but that was quite a long time ago. Basically, at that point all official money was was a promise of a certain degree of purity in the gold. Every country since then debased the currency when things got tough.
(When thinking about this, look up Gresham's law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_law )
Also consider how that agency is going to fund itself...because unless it can use force, whoever pays the bills is going to control the policy.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I assume nothing. Your understanding is evidently severely lacking. For one, if China starts dumping dollars, they have to unpeg the RMB from the dollar, don't they?
What happens when they do that? Hmmm?
There's a lot China can do, but in the end, they have to accept devaluation, and that they can be the primary dumpee of devaluation.
And of course they know. Of course the Central Banks have thought about this. And Sherlock-- I don't need to assume a singular US. I have the fact, of a singular Fed.
you think that US manufacturing would suddenly be competitive on the world stage, just because it became more expensive to manufacture in China?
US imports would either find somewhere else to go for cheap crap, or would build it themselves - but in the latter case, the goods produced would have to be more expensive (its just that they would all become more expensive, no-one could undercut competitors by outsourcing to china anymore) and that would kill off any consumer-led recoveries. And goods not produced in the US (eg electronics) would become more expensive still. And your exports would drop dramatically as the dollar strengthens compounding the problem.
So basically you are trying to say having consumers work in factories that actually produce something would somehow be worse than having them all serve eachothers? The things would be more expensive because the workers(consumers) would get paid more than in chine. The money would end up right back in the local US economy. In history that has only been a great thing. Now the money ends up in China, and in the pockets of some fat cats, who do not spend it. On the other hand, because of those money sinks the US can just keep printing money without inflating it too much.
Long term all of this might be true, but like the outsourcing did not happen overnight, the return of these types of jobs would also take a long time. And there are lots of other "cheap" places beyond China.
(A) China - totalitarian in censorship.
(B) India - democratic.
(C) Canada - a joke.
Gee.
Which allies have we screwed over?
I think your analysis is faulty in many aspects.
China does not own *all* dollars; by far, not. For instance, Switzerland, Austria and many other countries, owe debts to China in USD.
So what's one consequence if China tried to dump its dollars? Well, on the most basic level, it would *also* devalue the debts owed to it. Hard to get around that, though, of course, "it's complex."
They're also owed RMB. If they keep RMB tagged to USD, they loose capital value, but lower cost of goods/labour-- you have to run some complex analysis to understand that. If they decouple the RMB from the USD, then... well, the US probably wants that, doesn't it? COGS has to go up, which puts a big break on China's economy, presumably...
>>the US will fulfill its obligations to allies and creditors who've played the game in good faith.
>Nope, not even close. The USA will default on those debts by inflation.
Inflation is not default. Plus, it may very well be in the US interest, to selectively pay down debts.
Inflation is not default.
Yes it is. It's a sleazy, underhanded means to default on a debt.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
"Everyone bitches about a supposedly imperialistic America, but every time something goes wrong somewhere they expect Americans to show up guns blazing."
What? No, we don't. Where on earth do you get these crazy ideas about what we think of you and your actions?
I think it's mostly self-justification for the "accidental" horrors that your military and mercernary forces inflict, but you know, I could be wrong about that superiority complex.
you think that US manufacturing would suddenly be competitive on the world stage, just because it became more expensive to manufacture in China?
No, not "suddenly." Since WWII. And while some manufacturing was outsourced, a lot even, it hasn't been so long that those US workers left the job market; most of them would love to get full time factory jobs back! And we do still actually have a huge amount of manufacturing.
The regulation is all in place already, as is the infrastructure, zoned land, etc. There would be costs, and things that take time, but it would be much more rapid than you might think.
Our exports were strong when the dollar was strong. A lot of what we export are things like factory equipment where the price changing a little doesn't change what equipment is best; as long as customers see the price increase as due to the exchange rate, they'll still buy it because it is the best or most suited to their task.
no, I'm saying it would be inflationary. The American workers would get paid more, but the goods would cost more correspondingly, and exports would fall as US good would be expensive for other nations to buy.
In turn that would require the dollar to fall against other currencies to make the exports competitive, but that would hit imports
so the net result is that Americans would earn more, but what they could buy with that extra money would be reduced, and because American workers were getting paid more, and the cost of running the companies employing them goes up, the price of their goods goes up which means the workers demand more money producing an inflation.
Its not all bad though, its just that an economy is complex, and changing it overnight is therefore dangerous. Last thing you want is to implement the kind of protectionism a country like Argentina or Zimbabwe did and end up with hyperinflation and eventual 3rd world status. The tea party might get elected to the white house then!
Oh, and I imagine any change in favour of the US would result in American fat cats pocketing all the cash anyway.
Consumers have as much to do with it as manufacturers. If consumers gave a rat's ass about the "Made in USA" label, it would have a non-negligible impact on these decisions.
I will leave the question of whether consumers should give a rat's ass for a different post.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
And China's markets are not free enough to regulate excesses; central planning leads to vast wastes of resources, such as building "ghost cities": http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324412604578515382905495900
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Have you ever heard of economic sanctions that include "freezing the assets" of country X? At that point you're beyond worrying about pissing off country X, and your objective is to inflict economic hardship.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
You fail:
O's smallest deficit: $1,087 billion (2012)
GWB's largest deficit: $458 billion (2008)
OK this is what the British did with China and what we should do too. GB told China before the handover of Hong Kong, pay us back all the money we loaned you for WWII, with interest or we will close our markets to all your goods. And China paid them back or actually it evened out the books between GB and China. We should do the same too. If they want a world without the US, I believe we could do without them easier than they can do without our US markets. Besides fair is fair.
Paul E. Bahre
Why settle for bad when you can have much, much worse? Sincerely, China
Of course the whole idea of supra-national entities brings in the specter of more or less unaccountable bureaucracies and undemocratic governments gaining a lot of power. So (as most here), I'd ordinarily take the Wall-street gang over that any day. Their agenda is really simple and transparent (profits) and their planning horizon is blessedly short (short-term meaning "today before lunch", long-term meaning "today after lunch").
Only we're dealing with a national currency here, the US $, which also happens to be the world's reserve currency.
And that's where the US government comes into the picture, not Wall Street. Now over the past 60 years or so, the US government has proven itself reliable and dependable when it comes to financial matters.
Up until 2011 or so when S&P downgraded the US government from AAA to AA+ (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_credit-rating_downgrade ) as a direct result of the political uncertainty caused by a certain wing of a certain party (you know who) about whether the budget ceiling would be increased in time to meet financial obligations. And now we're seeing exactly the same thing again, only with more overt party-political motives.
Unfortunately we'll have to face the fact that these antics have lost us trust that we'll behave responsibly. From China for instance.
And unfortunately losing trust in this way immediately means losing money. Because our lenders charge us an interest rate according to the risk-return curve (the riskier a prospect, the more interest you charge him).
Which is why for China, Japan, Brazil, India, the Middle East (and perhaps even Europe) it regrettably starts making sense to push for an international reserve currency that can't easily be held hostage by a small group of political extremists.
And this is different from the US, how? Top CEO's earn 1000's of times what their exploited workers make:
And how did that come to be? By lying to their citizens, exploiting them and corrupting the government officials that were suppose to be protecting our interests.
China may not have doodoo that does not smell, but that doesn't mean they don't make valid points at times.
China is governed by people who see themselves as deeply rational. The modern Republican Party, to them, is deeply irrational and exemplifies the reasons for avoiding democracy and hindering religion. I can't disagree with them on this. . China and Russia signed a treaty back in 2000 for much the same purpose: to give the world an alternative to American domination.
Only boring people are ever bored.
As much in goods as the USA buys from China it would do more harm for them to pull a stunt like that. Oh fret! China is just letting off steam for publicity, they can't stand the US being in the news for the last 16 days. China was in the news how many times?
every time the US does this crap it is a opportunity for China to pounce or any nation for that fact because we are vulnerable.
Not only are your teachers from Reagan era, but their information is obviously as well. RMB has not be pegged to dollar since 2005. Almost a decade. It is currently floating in 1% band around a basket of currencies composed moslty of USD, EUR, JPY, KRW and in smaller quantities the pound, rubble and others. This is not going to create any significant problems in any event, since China has almost full control over RMB trading and in the case I describe, all currencies would lose meaning temporarily, but China would be holding the basket of goods everyone wants and means of production.
Also Fed is very limited in what it can do compared to the Chinesse. For a larger currency / trade wars you would need Act of Congress. Fat chance there.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
Jarheads are Marines, not Army. Grunts are Army.
And if you're a civilian, don't call a Marine a jarhead. Devil Dog they will accept from a civilian, but jarhead is only tolerated from members of other services, these days. Leatherneck is also semi-acceptable from a civilian, but it's been trending down for a while now and may end up as unacceptable as jarhead in time.
What's wrong with leatherneck? It's rather archaic of course, but it does hearken back to the time when the Marines were first formed, and used in the Barbary Wars. The term came about because they had to wear jackets with special thick leather neck protectors because they were fighting with swords against the Barbary pirates, and these leather neck protectors helped stop sword slashes to the neck.
You cease to amuse. Suggestion: pick up a copy of the Financial Times. Google "Bernanke peg China".
gosgog:
The voters brought this on themselves, never mind "Gun Contol" & other things. The Gov't system is wrong. 1/. Voter registration...VOTERS SHOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE DRIVER LICENSE OR OFFICIAL PHOTO Evidence, prior to being allowed to VOTE. 2/. The entire system of a locked in term for both CONGRESS, SENATE & PRESIDENT needs to change so that an OUTRAGED PUBLIC CAN DEMAND A NEW ELECTION & NOT HHAVE TO WAIT 4 YEARS. 3/. PRESIDENT TO BE ELECTED BY THE PUBLIC...not the PARTY OR ELECTORAL STATE GROUP. 4/.IMPEACHMENT could be demanded for all elected officials, not just the President.5/. PENSIONS need to be CHANGED....to only last the amount of time each elected member served. i.e. Congressman, only elected one time..pension 2 years, Senator, 1 time 6 years only 6 year pension. I full term Pres' 4 years etc.
BENEFITS RESULTING....you would get what you voted them in to do, & the BIG MONEY SUPPLIERS WOULD LOSE THEIR POWERS OF INFLUENCE!!
THEN THE CLAIM "DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOV'T" would be true.
Better crypto tech is all fine and well, but that's not going to bring any kind of change to the US government; it's still in the hands of the voters, who aren't going to use that crypto tech because "they have nothing to hide" and because they're generally Fox News or MSNBC-watching idiots.
I can see other nations, including China, acting together, bringing much more change to the global state of politics, and consequently to the US. They have the power to do so (especially if they act together), and if the world's reserve currency switches from the USD to something else, that's going to cause massive changes for everyday Americans.
===
The world's finance centre is moving away from the USA. USA exports jobs and imports goods, creating a pooring down of the nation. Pretty soon, the 1% won't have customers to sustain their sales, and whoops, another adjustment to lock the barn door after the cows have left.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Nothing really wrong with it. It's all about fashion. Not that a marine would ever use that term for it. The evolution of slang is entirely driven by the sentiments of a group of people, usually a generation. Marines of two generations ago actively liked being called leathernecks. That's reason enough right there for the current generation to reject the name. It was too recently in fashion. Devil dog goes all the way back to WWI, so of course it's much better. Human nature.
Unlike capitalism, globalization is zero-sum (ponzi/pyramid scheme).
Casteism
And unlike China, India is a heterogeneous society due to Caste system. http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/india-is-losing-the-race/
Casteism
Review, refine, rewrite your constitution/laws/rules/regulations/taxes/duties/monetary policies within the context of Globalization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_bias
Casteism
Inflation is not default.
Yes it is. It's a sleazy, underhanded means to default on a debt.
-jcr
No, it's not. If people are agreeing to the terms (I will pay you back X + interest in Y years), and inflation outpaces the interest rate, that's their fault for not getting a high enough interest rate.
Hey! thats uncalled for we have not been asking for a kick in the ass! We've been asking for a boot to the head thank you very much.
A new legislative branch dedicated and designed for the sole purpose of managing the budget efficiently and effectively. They can tell the house of representatives how much money they can spend or force them to cut some government spending if needed