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Redesigned Seats Let Airlines Squeeze In More Passengers
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "AP reports that U.S. airlines are taking out old, bulky seats in favor of so-called slimline models that take up less space from front to back, allowing for five or six more seats on each plane. This gives airlines two of their favorite things: more paying passengers, and a smaller fuel bill (the seats are slightly lighter). Whether the new seats are really closer together depends on how you measure. By the usual measure, called 'pitch,' the new ones are generally an inch closer together from front to back as measured at the armrest. The seats Southwest has put on nearly its entire fleet are 31 inches apart, about an inch less than before, allowing them to to add an extra row of six seats to each plane. International passengers are feeling crowded, too. As recently as 2010, most airlines buying Boeing's big 777 opted for nine seats across. Now it's 10 across on 70 percent of newly-built 777s, Boeing says. American's newest 777s are set up 10-across in coach, with slightly narrower seats than on its older 777s. Airlines say you won't notice. And the new seats are designed to minimize this problem. Airplane seats from 30 years ago looked like your grandmother's BarcaLounger, says Jami Counter, senior director at SeatGuru.com, which tracks airline seats and amenities. 'All that foam cushion and padding probably didn't add all that much comfort. All that's been taken out,' he said. 'You haven't really lost all that much if the airline does it right.'"
I recently flew on a rather old African owned plane (run by a state airline). It being my first experience with this style of airline (the only other African airline I'd flown was SAA, which is no better or worse than the average European airline), it was interesting. E.g. there was heaps of leg room! It was amazing compared to the other airlines I'd been flying. Economy class was actually comfortable for me, even without pushing the seatback back (which I never like doing if there is someone behind me, I think airlines should remove that option).
On the newer planes though, I always have to get an aisle seat, otherwise I am uncomfortable the entire flight.
Fuck the airlines.
HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
Every plane trip you go on will offer you a life jacket. In the past 60 years, I'm confident that a life jacket hasn't saved a life, but it's cost a fortune in fuel over that time...
Would be comfier at this rate.
I'd start by saying that I'm bigger than the average. Still, having sat in the slim seats for several travels, I have to say they are more comfortable than the old ones, even in a 3-4-3 row setting. I actually feel like having more leg space (especially for my knees) even if the seat in front of me is reclined. If they all will be like the slim seats on transatlantic LH flights, then I'd take them anytime over the old style seats.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
I've more or less stopped flying because of all the nuisance fees combined with the delay/hassle of security screening at the airport. If I need to get somewhere REALLY far away, I'll bite the bullet, but for the most part I've switched to trains and driving.
I'm 6'5" (1.96m) and the biggest problem I have is the seat width. Thing is, I'm not fat, not particularly broad built or even unusually tall. It's just really difficult to get in them, especially when the arms are fixed. The seats as it stands are made for people who are 5'8" or smaller.
This isn't progress, it's shameful profiteering.
Jami Counter, senior director at SeatGuru.com, which tracks airline seats and amenities. 'All that foam cushion and padding probably didn't add all that much comfort. All that's been taken out,' he said. 'You haven't really lost all that much if the airline does it right.'"
He shouted from business class.
I wonder if we made a law that said all airline executives had to fly economy whether they would be so keen to make these changes
Choose your allies carefully, it is highly unlikely you will be held accountable for the actions of your enemies
If people just go to their favorite travel website and sort flights by cost this will continue to happen. Consumers are giving the signal they care about nothing other than cost. If it becomes uncomfortable enough that people select airlines based on comfort over price the airlines will respond. They just want the money. If they could get away with charging more for bean bag seats they would respond.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
"The seats Southwest has put on nearly its entire fleet are 31 inches apart, about an inch less than before"
" Boeing says. American's newest 777s are set up 10-across in coach"
I'm 6'6" (198cm) and on behalf of tall people everywhere can I express a warm and heartfelt welcome to this policy of even further reducing the amount of room available, if this trend continues soon the we tall people will only be able to fly coach by adopting the Dwi Pada Sirsasana pose which if nothing else should please yoga instructors.
I've wondered for a long time why airline seats are so (seemingly) heavy. It seemed like a no-brainer that they'd be spending money on lighter weight seats. So, I was really surprised upon reading the article that the guy from Recaro said that 5 years ago, their seats weight about 29 lbs. That's surprisingly light for a seat that size and apparent heft when you look at them. Even more incredible is they've managed to save a further 9 lbs off that with their lightest current seat.
At 6'4 I'm pretty protective over my legroom. In my opinion they should improve coach by just not allowing reclining seats. I know that will never "fly", but it really pisses me off when some 5'1 person in front of me reclines their seat all the way back into me once the plane takes off. I just pretend the seat is back in its upright position, and if that means they get bumped every two minutes, they can just move their seatback forward. I guess it's only going to get worse. Or, I have to get a lot richer and start flying in a more expensive class.
www.clarke.ca
Sardines claim conditions cramped in tin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idd32nyf1pc
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
A bunch of tubes (or padded cubes) where the passenger slides in, a hatch is closed behind them and soothing music is piped in to help them sleep (or gas, whichever works best).
[John]
Shit better not happen!
But don't you see? By making them smaller, fat Americans won't be able to fit to fly at all.
No, more of them will need to buy two seats.
It's the Ryanair, low cost airline effect. It's all about the price, squeeze every penny, charge for baggage, (pretend to) charge for toilet usage, just get them from A to B for the minimum advertised price and them make them pay for it in discomfort, inconvenience, or extra charges later.
And there's something to be said for this model. It has brought affordable, regular, international, air travel to the masses -- for the prices mentioned above.
But, look, let me put it this way: I will pay the extra â100 or even â200 euros per flight to fly with Aer Lingus or BA, in some modicum of comfort, without the mental overhead of restrictions, and to be dropped off in an actual city instead of an airport 80km from where I want to go. There are limits to how low people will go for the right price and I think the airline industry has already hit that mark.
May the Maths Be with you!
No, they'll just take up half my seat while the airline expects me to suffer in silence.
The american airlines should just carry things to their logical conclusion, sedate everyone, and then stack them like firewood.
The armrest can keep the solid parts of them away from you, but you still need to fight off the gooey parts.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
"The american airlines should just carry things to their logical conclusion, sedate everyone, and then stack them like firewood."
But with the new, thin beach chairs, you'll be able to feel the knees of the 12year old behind you much better, it will be like a massage.
If they could do that without long (or short) term complications, I'd be all for sedated flying.
"This gives airlines two of their favorite things: more paying passengers, and a smaller fuel bill (the seats are slightly lighter)."
Exactly, the seats are negligible in weight compared to the passengers themselves. I bet the extra 5-6 passengers easily outweigh the "lighter seats" by 10-30 times. Especially when you add any luggage and/or carryons....
All this will do is piss off more people and turn them off to flying unless absolutely necessary.
All this will do is piss off more people and turn them off to flying unless absolutely necessary.
I doubt if most people will notice. When making flying decisions, most passengers care about three things:
1. cost of the tickets
2. fares
3. ticket prices
Discount airlines that have cut amenities to reduce costs, have thrived.
Speaking for myself, I have a family to support, and renting a comfortable seat for a few hours is not a priority.
If a thinner seat allows the airline to cut $20 off the price, that is fine with me.
I've sat in just about every possible configuration of plane and seat, including these new "ultra-light" seats (which are on a number of United's planes). The seats are slimmer, but the problem is that they are also stiffer, and the material is both harder and less supportive than the standard seat.
I'm usually able to deal with just about any seating situation, but I found myself getting uncomfortable after 30-45 mins in the new seats, particularly my back. I actually had to consistently stretch and turn to mitigate the ache that started to form. The major reason is, I think, the fact that there is less support for your legs in front, leading to a "sliding forward off the seat" kind of situation where you have to put more effort into keeping yourself seated.
Anyway, seats vary, and old seats suck as much as anything else. However, selling the new seats as "better" or "more comfortable" is a load of c$#% that the airline industry no doubt has teams of advertisers selling through stories like this one.
RT
fat americans aren't getting any taller so adding more rows was the answer.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Any reasonably smart party of two will book the window and aisle hoping that the flight isn't at capacity and that the middle seat never fills.
When you're a single traveler looking a the last dozen seats available on an airplane, you'll almost always pick an open window or aisle before choosing a middle seat.
If their gamble is successful, they get three seats for the price of two.
If their gamble is unsuccessful, they get what they paid for, and often end up sitting together anyway, because they'll just trade with the grateful soul who got "upgraded" out of the middle to the aisle or window.
Also, some people are fat, yes.