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Japan Refused To Help NSA Tap Asia's Internet
An anonymous reader writes "The NSA sought the Japanese government's cooperation to wiretap fiber-optic cables carrying phone and data across the Asia-Pacific region but the request was rejected. The NSA wanted to intercept personal information including Internet activity and phone calls passing through Japan from Asia including China. The Japanese government refused because it was illegal and would need to involve a massive number of private sector workers. Article 35 of the Japanese Constitution protects against illegal search and seizure."
A country that gives a shit about its constitution? Surely some mistake...
I'm glad Japan still seems to have some honour left.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The American constitution is also supposed to prevent unlawful searches, so why does the Japanese constitution succeed and the American constitution fails to stop illegal capture of electronic communication? Do the Americans just not care?
Just attempted to view the first link but need java script, not a good start.
We don't know if they have already tapped it for their own spying, we simply know they would not spy for us (according to them, which is obviously what they would say).
It's more than just wiretapping. Look up civil forfeiture.
IDK what the problem is, if it's just apathy, we have day to day life too good, or what. But we are the epitome of good people who do nothing. We are now just looking for the ultimate evil to triumph over us and just make it official.
Follow the money. The US governmnet is corporation owned.
Anybody recall how the Japanese ended up with this constitution?
...the NSA had their mad scientists build an earthquake machine to punish those silly Japanese.
Japanese "realpolitik" is complicated and a lot happens "below the surface". While I'd like to hope the request was refused on the grounds of honoring their constitution, a skeptic in me suggests that the true reason must be more pragmatic. Perhaps they did not want US to gain access to their own trade or political secrets (wise choice, given what we now know about wiretapping European leaders). There is a lot of shady stuff going on between Japanese government and businesses (where does it not? I don't mean to single them out, though theirs is not a very transparent society).
So, while it's great to know that at least one rich country can say "no" to US, I wouldn't go moving my colocated mail services to Japan quite yet.
The U.S system is very broken and the constitution has been trampled on by fearmongers telling stories about bogeymen.
Protection from terrorism and Freedom at all costs has been the plan past 10 years.
When the plan goes sour and all constitutional freedoms have been eroded, keeping up the appearances at all costs becomes the new goal.
Yeah, so what? We're going to take this claim from a Japanese newspaper at face value, are we? Because you know, when their "Sources" tell us something, well gosh darn it, that's just the end of it, isn't it?
Because, as we know, the Japanese government NEVER lies, *cough* TEPCO *cough*.
I'm so sick of this propaganda bullshit.
The people are the "enemy". You and me. We're the target. Everything we hear and read and find ourselves doing day to day is just the big THEM keeping us wiggling around under the big thumb.
And who would have imagined a water filter company involved in an international conspiracy of this magnitude?
Unfortunately, our police, our elected representatives, our president, and our unelected courts all have conspired to diminish our 4th Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure. Notably this was the result of the failed "war on drugs" but lately due to the "war on terrorism".
The sad part is, both major parties are responsible for this. There are few elected Democratic or Republican lawmakers who seem to care.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter_(SSN-23)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable#Intelligence_gathering
Fortunately, emperor Obama thinks the constitution is a "living document" http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/03/obamacare-and-the-living-breathing-constitution/255145/
Yup, the rest of the world had a big WTF when they realize the US legalized bribes by calling it "lobbying".
I mean wtf is with all the pretending, just cut the BS and call it what it is.
...refused because it was illegal and would need to involve a massive number of private sector workers.
So being illegal isn't enough, it also has to be expensive and inconvenient?
Americans don't care. Really. You only have to look at the reaction to scandals in Japan compared to the US.
A few years ago the minister in charge of tax had to resign because he made a mistake on his tax return. The leader of one of the opposition parties (there are several, and they are not completely ineffective) had to resign because he gave his support to one of the other members of the party who then turned out to have lied about something. Bullshit from politicians is not tolerated.
Their electoral system has some advantages too. Candidates are not allowed to have TV or radio advertising, or even put videos on the internet etc. Coverage is strictly controlled to make sure everyone gets fair coverage, and money is much less of a factor since there is little to actually spend it on beyond a few small posters. Politicians have to actually go and canvas their constituents.
Lobbying is also heavily controlled, and since money is much less of an issue lobbyists have more limited power.
It's far from perfect but people take politics seriously and bad behaviour is severely punish. In comparison US politicians are armour plated, image managed, and awash with dirty money. The NSA scandal demonstrates just how bad it is. Why aren't the FBI arresting NSA staff for violating the constitution? Why are the senators and judges who approved it not under investigation?
Unfortunately the UK seems to be nearly as bad. Our one saving grace is that the EU is going to investigate, assuming we don't pull out before they are finished.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
"Do the Americans just not care?"
Americans are the most ignorant and easily led population on the planet. You need to look at the science. See here what science has discovered about the brain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ
Don't agree with a lot of this but one thing to keep in mind is that we only have the Japanese gov't word for what they did. I don't know what happened or didn't, but I do know that "standing up to the US" plays very well in every country--sometimes even in the US.
Man, I sure wish the constitutions of western nations had clauses like that...
wait...
There is a difference between "Japan didn't help the NSA tap the Asian internet" and "the NSA didn't tap the Asian internet"
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
More and more, I am ashamed to be a citizen of this country. I feel like I've been lied to my entire life about the country I live in, what it stands for, and what it's motivations have been for various things it, as a nation, has done over the decades of my life. America as the Hero of the Day for so many countries? Standing for Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness? It all rings so hollow now, being revealed as a stinking pile of bullshit. Don't get me wrong: I mean our government, not the people; there are truly good people, real heroes, in this country -- but so are there in any other country in any other part of the world. As a country we are revealed as no better than some of the countries who are ostensibly our 'enemies'.
I don't know what to do. Part of me just wants to lay down, close my eyes and sleep, never to awaken again, rather than face the horrifying reality that the United States of America that I grew up believing in is a lie, and that we're as corrupt and evil as any of the other alleged villians we've fought against in decades past. Are we really any better than Nazi Germany, North Korea, Red China, Lybia, Iran, Syria, or Al Qaeda? The answer is not obvious anymore.
It would be nice if the U.S. Constitution had a clause against unreasonable search and seizure. Maybe we could add an amendment...
grass always greener on other side
I'd give you points if I had any. You are correct. We have Senator's and Congressmen who get paid insane money for being a "consultant" to some corporation. $50k and up. They NEVER go to the company. The never submit any info to the company. They just get a check every month. Of course the fact they helped vote on bills that substantially helped this company has nothing to do with it right? wink wink, nod nod, nudge nudge. The open corruption in our country is so out of control it's insane. Hell even kids know it. When corruption reaches the level even children are aware of it, wow. Sad.
I'm old, not dead. Well that's my 2 cents worth, your mileage may vary. I say what I think, not what you want to hear.
The US constitution is fine. The problem is that the Patriot Act places the country in a limited state of emergency. You got to get that repealed.
Note that the summary says "The NSA sought the Japanese government's cooperation to wiretap fiber-optic cables ... but the request was rejected." The use of "the request" here is a standard rhetorical trick to get the reader/listener to believe that there was only one request, and it was rejected. But the English is ambiguous. There could have been many such requests, of which one was rejected, and the statement would still be true. They didn't mention how other such requests were handled. The inference should probably be "... but we won't want to tell you how the other requests were handled".
This is a special case of the general concept of "plausible deniability". Look it up.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
And I'd give you points too if I had any. I don't because of the favoritism on ./ I make a valid comment, get nothing. A make a thread, get nothing. BUT all the people who make comments below or even above it get points. Sometimes for stupid stuff. That's OK. I'm still going to continue making comments, giving valid points, pointing out facts. Because it's the right thing to do. Doing the right thing is not always the easy thing. Sorry I don't have any points because your comment is valid. I personally thank you for it.
I'm old, not dead. Well that's my 2 cents worth, your mileage may vary. I say what I think, not what you want to hear.
No - its that the American government does not care. The way the govenernment is set up, the American people can do nothing to prevent it. Congress is guarenteed a salery for life. Why do what people want - get in, be there long enough to get your salery for life, pass whatever laws you want - you are exempt, and accept all the bribes you want. People don't like you? Who cares, you are set for life - who cares if you win reelection.
Oh, someone is actually going to try to make a difference and run under a third party ticket? Good luck with that happening - even if you get in (which does happen from time to time) you got 400 or so other Congressmen and 99 other Senetors and a corrupt President who wants to be the dictator of a Socialist government.
The American system is broke.
Japanese culture has a long history of having a strong code of honor. Bushido is an example. If we practiced Seppuku, I think the director of the NSA might have had second thoughts about lying to Congress.
Have gnu, will travel.
Oh, someone is actually going to try to make a difference and run under a third party ticket? Good luck with that happening - even if you get in (which does happen from time to time) you got 400 or so other Congressmen and 99 other Senetors and a corrupt President who wants to be the dictator of a Socialist government.
that's actually exactly the "good people who do nothing" at work right there. how could nothing change if good people do nothing to change it. you've given up and that's the "good people who nothing".
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
So USA, the "land of the free" has an amendment to its Constitution protecting against unreasonable search and seizure. Yet it's the Japanese who have to use some actual common sense to show us how it is done and what that phrase really means. This is sad.
What the FUCK has happened to the USA?
- Japan has schools that primarily educate. The US has schools that primarily write payroll checks to union members.
- Japan has a free and independent press. The US press licks government boots. If you don't lick government boots, it's because you're a racist.
- In Japan, they have a thing that, in English, might be called shame. In the US "everybody does it".
- Japan has a culture. Anyone in the US who talks about culture is mocked. We have Lady Gaga and the Paris Hilton.
- Japanese media personalities and civic leaders like Japan. US media personalities and civic leaders hate America.
- Japan has a constitution. The US has a "living, breathing document" -- it only means something as long as it's convenient to "the right people".
- Japan is a civilized society. The US is a post-civilized society.
Just addressing a portion of your comment: Using nuclear weapons on Japan was a kindness, compared to the alternative. The alternatives were more vicious and would have resulted in far more death and suffering.
Good for you comparing Obamacare to what the NSA is doing! The topic is NSA and not Obamacare. If Americans cared so much about their rights like they cared for their hate of Obamacare MAYBE, just MAYBE the NSA would not be doing what it is doing. But hey you are exactly the reason why the NSA is doing what it is, and thinking the real problem is Obamacare!
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
Candidates are not allowed to have TV or radio advertising, or even put videos on the internet etc.
To be fair, they do have those minivans with megaphones and terribly cheerful female announcers driving around everywhere.
The US wanted to be able to spy on data going into and out of Japan. Of course, the Japanese do not want to help us spy on them. Why would they help us without something in return? So, perhaps they pointed to their constitution as a polite way to say no. I'd bet that if Germany came to us and asked us to help them tap our electronic communications, we would also say no, and perhaps, we would also point to our constitution as a polite way of explaining why.
If a branch of the Japanese government wanted to spy on its own citizenry, and then was stopped by the Japanese judicial system, referencing their Constitution, then we could point to that as a victory for a free and democratic system.
The real irony is who wrote their constitution...
Nice tactic of the feds, give us too much to hate at once and we have to divide our forces.
The particular article in their constitution states: "illegal search or seizure of any individuals used panties purchases, tentacle porn downloads, fecal fetish telephone conversations, or crazy lizard games are prohibited by law."
I envy the Japanese for their constitutional protections.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
My next computer is Japanese.
Knowledge is power; knowledge shared is power lost.
Just for the record.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
They don't get a salary for life.
A salery, whatever the hell that is, maybe.
Makes me wonder why Europe agreed to hand USA data on all financial transactions happening inside EU (terrorist finance tracking program). Anybody with two brain cells to rub together would see that it is great industrial and economic espionage tool.
>Article 35 of the Japanese Constitution protects against illegal search and seizure."
If only the US had some sort of law to protect against illegal search and seizure...
honour != profit, q.e.d.
Do the Americans just not care?
Nailed it.
dammit, this would work... perhaps is working, at least subliminally... stay tuned for more.
Nuke somebody and call it a 'kindness' ... only Americans.
Sad it is, when does the coup begin again?
I think I'm turning Japanese I think I'm turning Japanese I really think so.
You do realize what an amendment is, don't you?
If the constitution was rigid you can say goodbye to all amendments.
Unfortunately the constitution was pretty flawed to begin with. Too much focus on protecting against corruption from foreign entities and not enough protection against local corruption.
I wonder how bad the government has to be until the people thinks it is time for a new constitution.
Candidates are not allowed to have TV or radio advertising, or even put videos on the internet etc.
Everyone gets the same amount of free TV/radio/newspaper advertising, but the Internet restrictions have been lifted entirely.
The US voters can actually do stuff to prevent it.
The issue is they prefer to keep voting for "lesser evil" and then complaining that they still get evil and that nothing can be done.
grass always greener on other side
As someone who is on the other side of the pond I would have to agree. From watching the US from afar it actually seems like the grass is greener over here.
Do the Americans just not care?
Americans do care!
An umpire made a questionable call in the World Series last night.
Chris Brown got arrested.
Kim Kardashian is getting married.
. . . it's just a matter of what the common folks really care about . . .
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Success in the US is measured in monetary wealth. Nothing else matters. If you do a career in politics, your success is measured in how wealthy you are when you are at your peak or afterwards. You could say, most Americans are whores who do anything, including destroying their own country for money. It's a mindset thing. That's my take anyway.
No - its that the American government does not care. The way the govenernment is set up, the American people can do nothing to prevent it. Congress is guarenteed a salery for life. Why do what people want - get in, be there long enough to get your salery for life, pass whatever laws you want - you are exempt, and accept all the bribes you want. People don't like you? Who cares, you are set for life - who cares if you win reelection.
Oh, someone is actually going to try to make a difference and run under a third party ticket? Good luck with that happening - even if you get in (which does happen from time to time) you got 400 or so other Congressmen and 99 other Senetors and a corrupt President who wants to be the dictator of a Socialist government.
The American system is broke.
Well he's had 5 years to try to be socialist and hasn't got anywhere near.
the only reason the NSA wants to do this is to keep Americans safe. i mean, what other reason do they have? and we care about our constitution also, that's why evidence gained by illegal wiretaps will never be used in court. other evidence will be manufactured. doesn't matter, a law is being written to stop anyone from reporting on it.
the way we stop illegal wiretapping is to make it illegal to talk about. just like that evil Iraq we attacked. maybe we assimilated their culture of torture and spying on their own citizens.
The Patriot Act is unconstitutional, and since the constitution is the highest law of the land...
Actually the USA is not particularly corrupt. According to transparency international, only a few countries (Canada, some small northern European countries and Australia) are less corrupt than the US. Your story about Congressmen being paid to work for a company while passing legislation to help that company would be a severe breach of ethics and they would be ripped to pieces by their opponents., not to mention investigated by the ethics committee. I'm sure they get away with bad behavior, especially those with guaranteed seats (Corrine Brown, Charles Rangel etc) but that behavior is known and they still get elected so it's their constituents fault.
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
- Japan has schools that primarily educate.
I'm sure the US has a few of those as well. The problem is that they're nearly nonexistent... everywhere.
Ignorance is a choice
The USA has just as strong of an anti-spying stance as Japan demonstrated here: we refuse requests by the security services of other countries to spy on our infrastructure too.
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No, it is that the people don't care. Look at the polls. Talk to random people. The majority either like spying or don't care. If a large majority were angry about it like slashdoters, you can bet it'd make a difference.
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Follow the money. The US governmnet is corporation owned.
You're confusing the terms. Powerful people control the US Government. The US Government grants those powerful people limitations on liability, known as corporations, so that they can do bad things and not have to be responsible for them. That's why they support and control the government. But corporations don't exist without the government creating them.
I know, it's a fine line, but this is important enough to get the details right.
Oh.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
The system fights- and sometimes, removes, "good" people. Divide & conquer, that's WHY.
We Americans care, a lot. However, we realize from experience that the best option is not rebellion, but to vote the bums out with the hope that the new bums are morally superior to the last bunch and not a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
It doesn't, because most Americans are happy with it this way. They believe that lobbying == "free speech", because Fox News tells them so. And those that disagree insist that we need to elect the Democrats (who also get all this lobbying $$$, but somehow it's different for them, because Democrats are all good and virtuous while Republicans are all evil) to prevent the evil Republicans from being elected.
It's not going to change until the economy gets so bad and the country so crippled that groups of States secede from the Union, and the Federal government in Washington is powerless to stop it. Hopefully, that'll come sooner rather than later, so the better-run regions can rebuild their economies quickly and pass progressive legislation to fix things, rather than waiting too long and having their economies utterly wrecked by all the political problems, like what happened in Rome (everyone moved out of the cities, forgot all their specialized skills and technology, and became unskilled serfs working for feudal lords).
That's the tactic of all the Powers that Be: divide and conquer, bread and circuses. They keep us divided with "wedge issues" like gay marriage and abortion, so we're distracted from the really important issues like the disappearance of the middle class and the destruction of the economy.
Exactly. The US Constition is a failure; if a law that's blatantly unConstitutional can stand for a decade or more (being renewed multiple times, even), then obviously the Constitution isn't very effective in preventing unConstitutional laws, and obviously lacks decent mechanisms to prevent that from happening.
When enough people realizing voting is not worth the paper or electrons that make up the ballot.
It might have something to do with the fact that most Americans have only become aware of this fact in the last few months. For the most part, we work under the assumption that the government is working within the bounds of the law.
Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
IDK what the problem is
The problem is that there's a gaping bug in your constitution: The federal government can circumvent the constitution in whatever way it chooses by packing SCOTUS - an institution that neither the electorate nor the states have a direct hand in appointing members to.
This has dire consequences when POTUS and the entirety of congress are in agreement on an issue, but the states and the people oppose that view - i.e. the issue of federal vs state vs individual power.
Can we also stop calling something a "democracy" that lists the outcome of the "popular vote" as a curiosity without relevance after elections?
Way to completely ignore cultural differences. The Japanese used to kill themselves over stuff like this. This kind accountability has never existed in western culture. There are so many cultural differences between the two that these kinds of comparisons are pretty pointless.
Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
lol, your post is impressively incorrect.
- Japan has union teachers.
- Our press doesn't so much lick government boots but chase ratings. Also, since when is Japan known for having serious critical analysis of their government. The Fukushima disaster pretty much proves that it doesn't.
- There is shame in the US too. It's probably how you feel when you're about to have sex.
- The US has a culture too. You just seem to be unaware of its existence because you're too busy hating on the US.
- US media personalities hate America? Um...no. It's more like they love ratings.
- "Japan has a constitution". Yeah, because there's never been constitutional violations or corruption in Japan. Seriously, you have to be fucking kidding me with this shit.
- Post-civilized society? What the fuck does that mean? If by them having a civilized society, you mean that nobody has sex anymore and every works 12+ hour days, 6 days a week, and everyone is afraid to actually say what you mean; then yes, you are correct sir!
Well done, dipshit. You got literally nothing right.
Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
Nice tactic of the feds, give us too much to hate at once and we have to divide our forces.
As I understand it, 80% of the U.S. are more interested in dancing with the stars than Obamacare, drone killings, guns, or the NSA
Why not team up with the 20% that agree with you about NSA and drone killings, and leave the anti-obamacare and anti-gun stuff out of it until you've established a new political system.
- Japan has schools that primarily educate.
There are some serious questions regarding the history syllabus in Japanese schools.
Read the article. The NSA asked the Japanese government and they refused. Nowhere does it say that the NSA didn't proceed and obtained access anyway, illegal and contra the Japanese constitution. Just like it did in the USA, Europe, Asia and anywhere they damn well like. They don't give a flying f*ck about laws, foreign or domestic. They simply make their own.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Polls and surveys are always carefully crafted to get the desired outcome. All the polls and surveys mean is what the people conducting the survey want to make people believe. While there a few people stupid enough to think things like the TSA are a good thing, most people really don't think so. I think most reasonably intelligent Americans don't like what's happening in this country, but they're not ready to accept the eventual inevitable outcome. This is actually what will make things worse before they get better, and will make the solution much more drastic. If more people were to be more vocal now, it might change things before it gets too bad. Too many people are too afraid to stand up now because they think they're alone and the fascist type government would crush them. Individually, they're probably right, but if many people were to stand up, it would be too hard for the government to silence everyone.
Money is speech. Corporations are people.
You would not believe how hard I laughed at the Supreme Court and a Presidential candidate.
It's because Japanese people will care. Americans don't seem to care any more so long as they have their toys and cheap gas. Just look at the people they've been electing for the past few decades.
>The way the govenernment is set up, the American people can do nothing to prevent it.
I thought the right to bear arms would have prevented that. Most other countries don't even have that in their constitution, so get off the couch, turn off the TV and do something about it.
MacArthur never should have given them a decent constitution.
Dammit, radioactive wastelands
I give it around a decade before we start seing coups. (Not just one.) And they'll be by political opponents with military backing. Look into the transition from the Roman Republic to the Roman Empire, and what happened then. (I.e., don't expect a quick collapse, just because the military starts playing musical Emperors.) And at the start most of these "Emperors" will try to do what they think the country needs, but it will soon get out of hand, and be all about personal power.
P.S.: History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes alot. (I'm quoting someone, but I don't remember who.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
The American constitution is also supposed to prevent unlawful searches, so why does the Japanese constitution succeed and the American constitution fails to stop illegal capture of electronic communication? Do the Americans just not care?
I care.
Be seeing you...
Japan may as well be another State of the USA, and NEVER even considers the nature of a US demand- it simply implements it. A long standing GAME since the original invasion and take-over of Japan after WW2 (and invasion that NEVER officially ended) is for the puppet rulers of Japan to pretend to their people that they have independence, and free will. The people of Japan PRETEND to believe this.
One of the main reason for this was right after Japan lost WW2, their 'emperor' were about to be charged with war crimes (conducting chemical/biological experiment on live Chinese/Koreans/etc). Instead they handed over the experiment findings to the US in exchange for protection.
That's why the western media still protect Japan, and that's why there is still a 'emperor' in Japan today.
Most history books in Japan are heavily twisted/censored, the Japanese simply cannot face their past. Damn, they are still denial about invading Asia in WW2, they are still calling it 'liberation'. Japanese are still hated by all its neighbors to this day. Without protection from the west the Japanese are just a bunch of stubborn incompetent racist sex addicts.
Because what is covered in US history has always been honest, and no one has written a book outlining some of the issues?
http://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teacher-Told-Everything/dp/0743296281/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382909717&sr=8-1&keywords=lies+my+teacher+told+me
One huge difference is how much bigger japanese testicles are compared to american.
Rome didn't have leaking "hot potato" nuclear waste depôts
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
From this one report you draw the conclusion that the Japanese do not surveil their citizens?
Sorry, but Japanese have very different ideas of what privacy means compared to people in western cultures.
http://privacy.org.nz/assets/Files/Technology-Forums/Rowena-Cullens-presentation.ppt
This story is very misleading.
Some Americans recall the alternative, perhaps.
Or did you think that li'l ol' war was just going to end itself?
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Re: your sig. Democracy here in Canada is 38% taking away the rights of 62% due to having more then 2 parties. Funniest was when the other parties tried to work together the minority screamed undemocratic and prorogued Parliament to stop the majority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Perhaps that was true a decade or two ago, but the laws that have been protecting us are being dismantled right before our eyes.
Unfortunately the UK seems to be nearly as bad. Our one saving grace is that the EU is going to investigate, assuming we don't pull out before they are finished.
That's why I don't listen to the idiots who want UKIP in, they don't seem to understand that they want us out, and that is bad.
I think most reasonably intelligent Americans
Reasonably intelligent Americans (or humans in general) are a minuscule portion of the population.
Ignorance is a choice
Fine, you won't help us. Well screw you! We'll just call sushi Freedom Fish and to hell with you.
Sig Registration Form 34c_766(a) submitted to Ministry of Signature Management. Approval pending.
... that America doesn't have something like this in their Constitution: "Article 35 of the Japanese Constitution protects against illegal search and seizure."
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
Americans are the most ignorant and easily led population on the planet. You need to look at the science. See here what science has discovered about the brain:
Really? There are scientific studies proving that Americans are more ignorant and easily-led than, say, North Koreans? The video you link to does not compare Americans against others.
One huge difference is how much bigger japanese tentacles are compared to american.
FTFY.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Its obvious that Section 9 has just turned down the request from the Chief of Foreign Affairs. They just didn't want to grant access to the mystery hacker known as the Puppet Master.
Is it scarey that this was the first thing that popped in my head when I saw this story?.....
o please, the Japanese can be just as duplicitous as the rest, in fact its worse because they can be petty. You think that tax guy got in trouble because the other guy was on some moral crusade. Odds are he pissed off the wrong person. This is the country that is famous for their gangsters.
The real reason they probably said no is because they didn't think it could benefit them both in info and the fact we might back stab them. I mean their have a defense force they have been growing even though they are not allowed a military , do you really they are purely principled?
It's more than just wiretapping. Look up civil forfeiture.
IDK what the problem is, if it's just apathy, we have day to day life too good, or what. But we are the epitome of good people who do nothing. We are now just looking for the ultimate evil to triumph over us and just make it official.
It's not apathy. It's that the same people who are top campaign contributors to the politicians happen to also be the people who own and have influence over the media, which means that US propaganda is more successful that most other countries, because a majority of the population doesn't actually realize that it's propaganda just because its labeled as "news."
In other words, people care, but they've been successfully manipulated into caring about the wrong things.
The Korea's are amongst the most educated ironically enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading
Ugh.. Would you please stop sounding like a typical American rube? I'm a socialist and I can guarantee you that Obama ain't one. What is so hard about looking up the definition of the terms you're using before spouting them off as some kind of nonsensical insult?
Also - spelling, grammars and general coherence would go a long way towards making your argument for you.
If I vote third party, even run for office, and say exactly the same thing, would you have a different reply?
I ask because stating what appears true does not mean the speaker is inactive in those efforts, merely unsuccessful, and frustrated.
This thing the Japanese have, a "Constitution" that prevents illegal search and seizure by the government (or by anyone in the country), sounds like a good thing. The US should consider getting one of these "Constitution" things. It might clear up some of the issues they are having with the NSA and massive spying onto "Friendly" countries. Just a thought.
Pay money, present problem, get solution. You're right, a consultant would not reach step 3. But it is essentially consulting.
The moral advantage business has is that it employs people. Screwing some in exchange for giving others needed jobs can balance out, in the long view. And since employment is a huge part of the economy, it follows that employers are favored in decisions. Which is why it looks like business owns congress.
As an employee, it is difficult to see the employer's side of most arguments. Example, "They should pay us more for what we do." Reality: If they paid you more the customers would go to a competitor and you would be unemployed. Which is preferable?
The true problem at the core is how large business gets, which is the inevitable result of economy of scale. With smaller business and more self employed, politicians would favor the people again, which the people could force if they wanted to.
But they don't. These employees made a choice to perpetuate the system because it somehow benefits them. So, it is hard to argue that a Congress that favors corporate interests does not benefit the employees who made that choice.
I'm pretty sure the video explains why you have a huge chance of being completely full of shit, and whoever nodded you up is a sheeple.
If you disagree, you will have to ask how much of your opinion is based on reason, or fall back on actual science.
Or, you could be a subtle yet unoriginal troll with an alt account, that schtick is old enough that I wouldn't believe an admission, so we are back to you're stupid.
I too care, along with a lot of other people. Apathy is no explanation, and anyone using it fails to understand the topic.
Of couse, most people care for it because they are scared of the brown people. But that is not apathy.
I hope I will not upset some Japanese people, but seen from outside, Japan's political elite seems completely out of control from the people. It is quite refreshing to see that they have moral grounds high enough that they still behave correctly. I wish our politicians were of the same kind.
Maybe it is kinda "too much" reliance on the constitution? In Europe Quantanamo would not be possible, no matter whether "enemy combatants" are protected by constitution or law or whatnot - it is Just So Badly Against Human Rights that europeans would certainly vote for someone else. Obama would not have gotten second term.
Americans seem to give a fuck for the humans there.
You should learn what socialism actually is, rather than blindly repeating the oft-heard mantra of the far right.
Article 35 of the Japanese Constitution protects against illegal search and seizure.
Man, I wish the United States had that.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
Smooth, linking to a Power Point Presentation. Why not just sum it up?
Yo captain dumbass, you were just robbed blind by the banking system. Any intelligent population would be voting D&R out of office, but no you're so addicted to fascism/capitalist ideology and brainwashed by anti-communist ideology and so historically fucking illiterate you vote the dumb fucks right back in.
If a former National security advisor says you people are ignorant, you better fucking believe someone much more educated and in the know than you will ever be knows his shit.
(reprinted from german spiegel)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27030.htm
Brzezinski: I am very worried that most Americans are close to total ignorance about the world. They are ignorant. That is an unhealthy condition in a country in which foreign policy has to be endorsed by the people if it is to be pursued. And it makes it much more difficult for any president to pursue an intelligent policy that does justice to the complexity of the world.
SPIEGEL: Yet the American right is still convinced of American exceptionalism.
Brzezinski: That is a reaction to the inability of people to understand global complexity or important issues like American energy dependency. Therefore, they search for simplistic sources of comfort and clarity. And the people that they are now selecting to be, so to speak, the spokespersons of their anxieties are, in most cases, stunningly ignorant.
Yawn and they found out after taping the fiber - they never get full :)
US spy agency asks Japan to help them spy on a.o. Japanese people, and several other Asian countries. Japan refuses, Americans all go "wtf, why don't they help us?! "
Now imagine: Japanese spy agency asks the US to help them spy on a.o. American people. Will the Americans give it any consideration at all or simply reject it?
Americans don't care. Really. You only have to look at the reaction to scandals in Japan compared to the US.
Americans don't care being spied upon by fellow Americans, because "it's for their own good, and helps keeping us safe in the War against Terrorism".
Compare the reaction of foreign countries of the real spying by NSA to the reactions of Americans to any news that there may be a back door in Chinese-produced computer equipment, like some router recently reported on Slashdot (sorry, too lazy to look it up).
This router back door could very well have been a stupidity by the manufacturer, who forgot to remove a test setting from production software. Yet Slashdot users fell over one another trying to be the first to condemn this evil, evil company from this evil, evil country.
And you're surprised we foreigners are kinda unhappy with the wholesale wire tapping by the NSA?!
How dare you compare the level of corruption in US to Australia.
People are forced to resign over just the hint of possible corruption here, In the US you have no shame, and even when caught red handed dont care. And your voters care even less.
US: special laws to make it ok for insider trading.
AUS: If you made a decision in govt that had an effect on your stock portfolio you would be out of a job.
Climb back under your rock.
It does, to a degree - if you fuck up in your job, you can be forced to resign in disgrace. On the other hand, if your boss fucks up and costs the company a lot of money, you can be forced to resign in disgrace.
The sad thing is that place is making an effort. How bad are the places that are not?
Actually yes, but that would have meant Russian occupation of all of Korea and more of Japan than that island north of Hokkaido.
Things would have gone very differently if the US had not had a change of leadership and the new leader reached for the nukes. Better? Who knows? Different anyway. Most of the cold war grew out of a stupid line on a map and and idiot waking up to find that lovable "Uncle Joe" really was the monster that Churchill had been warning about.
IDK what the problem is, if it's just apathy, we have day to day life too good, or what.
As a US citizen it makes me sad. Well, once your fearmongering warlords get an atomic bomb dropped on you, and then hold out until another one drops on your other friends and family... Yeah, then you might see why the Japanese don't give in to threat narrative bullshit as easily as the fat scared Americans do. Ironic since heart disease kills 200 times more Americans per year than 9/11. I guess we can add stupid to the list of typical American traits too (yes, I'm talking about you too Canada).
a large problem is the (current!) american legal view that there's two types of people. actual people and non-people, to whom they can do anything they want however they want when they want. the non-people are everyone outside usa and many people inside usa. there would be none of the loophole shenigans plays if it was simply declared that every person has the basic rights.
the double standard started at american independence(or before that even, but for usa it started then), evident by how you could declare men free to carry arms yet have some people own other people. disagreed with laws? well, you can't vote then.
the whole legislation mechanism is also geared so that only few people can actually act as the brokers deciding what gets through - by dividing into two houses of which neither in practice can get disbanded even if they're dysfunctional to an effectively prime minister(president) who can't get a noconfidence vote. so few people end up negotiating everything with so many things lumped up into one piece of legislation it would be funny in a comedy theatre.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
however, japan is cooperating with 99% of the other dirty deeds that the west is demanding. i;ll start taking japan seriously when they boot the u.s military out. i dont think any country should be taken seriously as a country if they host a u.s military base
Corruption is defined differently in different jurisdictions - some things are outlawed in one country but not in another. Does Transparency int somehow apply the same laws across the world?
> The NSA wanted to intercept personal information including Internet activity and phone calls passing through Japan from Asia including China. The Japanese government refused
Now we know why the Fukushima nuclear disaster happened. It has long been known that HAARP had a role in creating the undersea mega-earthquake and that Stuxnet did disable various systems of the nuclear powerplant, but the ideology behind the amero-zionist attack on Japan has not been clear so far. Now we know it was retaliation for booting the NSA.
Pay money, present problem, get solution. You're right, a consultant would not reach step 3. But it is essentially consulting.
The moral advantage business has is that it employs people. Screwing some in exchange for giving others needed jobs can balance out, in the long view. And since employment is a huge part of the economy, it follows that employers are favored in decisions. Which is why it looks like business owns congress.
Employers are favoured simply because they pay more cash, voters are so stupid that the same dirtbags get re-elected regardless of who they help.
As an employee, it is difficult to see the employer's side of most arguments. Example, "They should pay us more for what we do." Reality: If they paid you more the customers would go to a competitor and you would be unemployed. Which is preferable?
As an employee is all to easy to see that your voice is meaningless in the face of big business. The minimum wage could be increased and it would be the same for all the businesses competitors so wouldnt change a thing in that respect. Healthcare could be decoupled from jobs and that would also help people but to the detriment of business as they would have one less thing to hold over your head when employees were looking for work elsewhere. Big business wont like that so it wont happen.
The true problem at the core is how large business gets, which is the inevitable result of economy of scale. With smaller business and more self employed, politicians would favor the people again, which the people could force if they wanted to.
Almost right. The true problem is large business, full stop. They are the ones with the lobying power to shut out the small business through regulations. Small business, self employed and workers would all be much better off if the "pay for the laws you want" system was abolished. With all the money gone, politicians would start to listen to the people for a change.
But they don't. These employees made a choice to perpetuate the system because it somehow benefits them. So, it is hard to argue that a Congress that favors corporate interests does not benefit the employees who made that choice.
Because the money not only buys the laws that the big business wants.
It also buys the votes of the voters who are too stupid to know any better. All the money and bullshit advertising has a massive effect on elections.
I'm sure you would struggle to find a single thing congress has done that helps the little guy at the expense of big business.
According to press, Japan is not trusted with TS material and above - very leaky cp gang of 5.
They were also denied satellite information, so had to develop their own technology - and did the unthinkable - went through with it
with Japanese determination and predictability. I can understand Japan kicking back with a 'whats in it for us' question.
Never mind, tapping the in and out points will deliver what they want without Japan's cooperation.
After the Germany revelations, Japan may rethink its position. Maybe someone else will start making Jet engines.
Japans modern Constitution was more or less written by the Americans.
It must not have an appropriate rhyming word. Over here, they just say "Constitution, Shmonstitution", and get on with it. :-)
They care only to save face. Your country is broken.
don't pretend countries like Germany and Norway etc. (lenders) aren't playing this for their own benefit, or at least taking control of weaker countries, fiscally. Needs a fast forward button, to see what is going on.
The sad part is, both major parties are responsible for this. There are few elected Democratic or Republican lawmakers who seem to care.
That means your entire population is to blame. You are in a democracy, stop blaming the representatives. Your just using them as scapegoat while in fact you all cheer them on.
Unless I see massive (>1% of population) protests, I will consider the entire US population to be in favor of whatever your politicians come up with.
Let me illustrate your point in a hyperbolized (if that's a word) manner: "If it helps stop terrorists from murdering your children, do you believe the NSA should have the ability to monitor electronic communication?"
http://phys.org/news/2013-01-ancient-dna-reveals-humans-years.html [phys.org]
Or, more presently...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449265/Who-Discovered-America--Controversial-historian-Gavin-Menzies-claims-Chinese-reached-New-World-first.html [dailymail.co.uk]
New Economic Perspectives
They know the Japanese Constitution is meaningful and should never be stomped on. I mean who creates a Constitution and then ignores it? OH WAIT!
...of the Japanese Constitution protects against illegal search and seizure.
Man, that sounds so awesome. We here in the US should totally add that to our Constitution!
Candidates are not allowed to have TV or radio advertising, or even put videos on the internet etc.
Everyone gets the same amount of free TV/radio/newspaper advertising, but the Internet restrictions have been lifted entirely.
Internet has not been lifted entirely; email campaign is banned, just as telephone campaign is banned. Political party TV advertising is allowed but individual candidate advertising is not. We have freedom of speech in Japan, but ONLY if the public want's to listen via the specific media, and the public has said no to email and telephone push political campaigns. Door-to-door campaign is also banned. In Japan, we are slow at making changes to laws, but the laws are made vague enough so that interpretations can be made based on current public opinion. We have mechanisms that allow bureaucrats to hear and listen to what the public wants NOW, not what the public wanted yesterday.
That the constitution was originally drafted by the U.S occupational forces. and edited/approved by the Japanese government (parliament) is true... so how come the U.S. ignores its own constitution and expected Japan to do likewise by asking Japan to disregard its own constitution? That Japan edited and voted to adopt its current constitution make the constitution a valid supreme law of Japan. It is the Japanese Constitution anyway you look at it. The original drafters have no right to expect Japan to disregard it. The request is out of place.
The Korea's are amongst the most educated ironically enough.
You're referring to South Korea, obviously, whereas I mentioned North Korea. I hope you're aware of the difference.
They are so close together and share the same characteristics they are practically the same country. But that would be lost on your right wing brain.
Actually yes, but that would have meant Russian occupation of all of Korea and more of Japan than that island north of Hokkaido...
That would be Sakhalin.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
I'm curious if those stricter election laws have led to better politicians being elected? Like average people, not super wealthy out of touch politicians like in the US.
I didn't see anything in that link that scientifically proved that American's are more easily persuaded.
Perhaps the average American is not more easily persuaded than the average person from another country. You think it might have to do with the fact that America is the political lobbying target of every major corporation in the world?
I guarantee that if Canada or some other country were subjected to the amount of money in politics and the amount of "think tanks", political media conglomerates, lobbyists, etc.. that the US is subjected to, the Canadians would appear to be voting against their own self interests just like Americans often do.
Canada is right next to the US and is subject to the same think tanks, all the right wing parties on the North american continent talk to each other all the time because they are all capitalists. You should read about harper.
http://harpercrusade.blogspot.ca/