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How Elon Musk Approaches IT At Tesla

onehitwonder writes "In short, they build it themselves. When Tesla Motors needed to improve the back-end software that runs its business, CEO Elon Musk decided not to upgrade the company's SAP system. Instead, he told his CIO, Jay Vijayan, to have the IT organization build a new back-end system, according to The Wall Street Journal. The company's team of 25 software engineers developed the new system in about four months, and it provided the company with speed and agility at a time when it was experiencing costly delivery delays on its all-electric Model S."

231 comments

  1. SAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    S - end
    A - nother
    P - ayment

    1. Re:SAP by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 4, Funny

      We always called it Sorry Ass Program.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    2. Re:SAP by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1, Funny

      Sap n.

      1. To undermine the foundations of (a fortification).
      2. To deplete or weaken gradually.

      http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sapping

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    3. Re:SAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      S - low
      A - nd
      P - ainful

    4. Re:SAP by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The issues that a lot of people really don't get.
      Products like SAP are great if you do your business the same way as everyone else.
      That said. Businesses all tend to run differently thus SAP becomes more of a problem then it helps.
      However Suits like the Term Enterprise software and signing big checks, it makes them feel like they are running a big company, and it feels good to know they are running an Enterprise standard software, they probably have been burned by the single developer tool that becomes unmaintainable after he leaves so they jump to a full commercial system.

      However for the most part if you have a good development team on staff, you usually can make something better, faster and cheaper than SAP. Because you can focus on what is important and leave out the extra stuff. But as I stated your company will need a development team, not a single guy who is the lone coder.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:SAP by gabereiser · · Score: 2

      S - Software A - Against P - Productivity

    6. Re:SAP by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Funny

      Actually, it's a German company - I believe it means Scheissliche Anwederprogramme.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:SAP by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      Actually, he's right. Except about SAP being great when you run your business like everyone else does. Even then, it often turns out to be a very costly and inflexible boondoggle. Medium to large companies are so hung up about "needing" SAP, but I've seen a few cases where management actually considered doing without, doing a quick study at what it would take to replace the more useful bits of SAP, and being flabbergasted at the savings in license and consultancy fees while having to lose little of actual value. They also find their organisation much more agile after moving away from SAP.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    8. Re:SAP by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      sap
      [sap] noun, verb, sapped, sapping.
      noun
      1. the juice or vital circulating fluid of a plant, especially of a woody plant.
      2. any vital body fluid.
      3. energy; vitality.
      4. sapwood.
      5. Slang. a fool; dupe.
      As in the person who buys this software product

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    9. Re:SAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he has a cognitive disability. Bigots like you jump to the conclusion that he is low level because of something that has no impact on career level.

    10. Re:SAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However for the most part if you have a good development team on staff, you usually can make something better, faster and cheaper than SAP. Because you can focus on what is important and leave out the extra stuff. But as I stated your company will need a development team, not a single guy who is the lone coder.

      You could extend this to anything though - keeping within a software development context, they could write their own backup software, key management software, directory services, authentication service, operating system and so on. Of course I mean maintain as well, and each of those is a gift that keeps on giving.. You can only do so much before you have to expand the development team just to take on all these extraneous projects and that's when you spin off the whole group and a new baby enterprise software monster is born.

      They have lots of engineers.. they could build their own office furniture too.
      I guess the best example is buying vs. renting. Renting gives you a different kind of flexibility than buying does.

    11. Re:SAP by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      The issues that a lot of people really don't get.
      Products like SAP are great if you do your business the same way as everyone else.

      Exactly. That's why SAP's modules for areas like Human Resources and Accounting work decently well, but other areas that are industry or company specific cause more problems than they solve.

    12. Re:SAP by bsdewhurst · · Score: 1

      The first one I heard was Software Against People

    13. Re:SAP by ahabswhale · · Score: 1

      I agree with everything you said except for this:

      "However for the most part if you have a good development team on staff, you usually can make something better, faster and cheaper than SAP."

      Not true. You can ALWAYS makes something better, faster and cheaper than SAP with a good development team. It's not even subject to debate. SAP is a bloated piece of shit designed to take away your company's competitiveness. This rule applies to just about any enterprise tool you can name.

      --
      Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
    14. Re:SAP by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Software Aus Pakistanien

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    15. Re:SAP by YoungManKlaus · · Score: 1

      "Scheußliche Anwenderprogramme", now with correct spelling

    16. Re:SAP by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Products like SAP are great if you do your business the same way as everyone else.

      No. No they aren't. At least, not if they are SAP. SAP is a motherbitch. It crops up in industries where it has no business at all, like in casino gaming management. And it needs to be set afire.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    17. Re: SAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to get technical, your correction is superfluous. Since 1996 both double s and Eszett are considered correct.

    18. Re:SAP by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      "Scheußliche Anwenderprogramme", now with correct spelling

      Except my distant ancestors hail from Bavaria.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    19. Re:SAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which translates roughly as Suck All Profits (out of your clients business)

    20. Re: SAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since what date were "eu" and "ei" considered equivalent, you smug shitcock?

      Learn to read, you turkish cunt.

    21. Re:SAP by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Products like SAP are great if you do your business the same way as everyone else.
      That said. Businesses all tend to run differently thus SAP becomes more of a problem then it helps.

      They don't run as differently as most people think. For end users who've been doing the same thing the same way for twenty years this is perhaps understandable; move a field on an input screen, change the background color on an icon and they're lost. Someone who thinks he's an IT professional ought to be able to see beyond that.

      The details may be different. Things might be called different names. But it comes down to buying stuff, making stuff, doing stuff, and selling stuff. The basics of accounting, for example, are hundreds of years old. MRP basically involves backtracking from what you want to make (and when you want it) to what you need to acquire; it's not that different to baking a cake, which is appropriate as its half-century is coming up.

      However for the most part if you have a good development team on staff, you usually can make something better, faster and cheaper than SAP.

      Get on with it then, nobody's stopping you.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    22. Re:SAP by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      So fucking what? My distant ancestors were fish, but I'm a bloody awful swimmer.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    23. Re:SAP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he has a cognitive disability.

      Sounds like a euphemism for being as thick as two short planks. Developmentally challenged, learning disorder, ADHD ...

  2. Now Open It by GeorgeHahn · · Score: 1

    More competition to the likes of SAP can't be a bad thing.

    1. Re:Now Open It by cusco · · Score: 2

      Did you see where it only took 4 months? I haven't seen an SAP **upgrade** that went that fast, much less a deployment.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    2. Re:Now Open It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The joke with SAP is that you'll need so many man hours to shoe it in for your organization that you might just as well build from scratch in c. It just pays better to do it with SAP, since it's an easier sale because nobody ever got fired for buying an Enterprise grade solution.

    3. Re:Now Open It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You will only find that it will cover about 1% of the total SAP functionality, and it will not be the 1% you happen to need. Surprisingly, you will likely also find that there is only 1 company in the world whose requirements it meets.

    4. Re:Now Open It by steelfood · · Score: 2

      Their system is probably custom-tailored to their business processes. Not only would it not be appropriate for many other businesses and thus have a very small market, but it could also expose some of Tesla's secrets on how they operate, which would then give their competitors (enemies really, because they have no actual competition at the moment) an advantage over them.

      They could theoretically invest more money into its development to make it appropriate for mass market consumption. But entering the business software market may not be something they want to do at this very moment. And after pouring additional dollars into the project to make it more generic, it wouldn't be exactly a good use of resources to just open source it either. Nor might it be possible if it makes use of someone else's licensed proprietary technology.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    5. Re:Now Open It by tgd · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Did you see where it only took 4 months? I haven't seen an SAP **upgrade** that went that fast, much less a deployment.

      Of course, the reason for that isn't the (complete) ineptitude of people at SAP, or the superstar statusing of the engineers at Tesla.

      Its easy to build a one-off solution that works for what a company needs on day one, do it quickly and be successful. Its vastly harder to build a one-off solution that still works for what the company needs done ten years down the line. And damn near impossible to build a one-off solution that just magically has equivalent success and value to other companies just by open sourcing it.

      SAP upgrades can easily take that long, but SAP can easily run organizations an order of magnitude bigger, and two orders of magnitude more complicated than Tesla.

      IMO, the key thing people should get from this is the importance of making sure you buy what you actually need. If Tesla could replace their SAP system in four months with 25 engineers, odds are pretty high they had overpurchased when they went with SAP to begin with.

    6. Re:Now Open It by dysmal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Everyone knows of a company that is implementing SAP. Can anyone name a company that has completed their implementation of SAP?

    7. Re:Now Open It by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe they exist, but have you ever seen a company that actually could deploy or upgrade SAP faster than building something in house?

    8. Re:Now Open It by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Informative

      The question is, does the company even know what it's going to be doing 10 years down the line? Does SAP make it any easier to change as you company evolves over the next 10 years? SAP isn't something you can just install and forget about it. It's just a set of tools. It's like a database server, web server, development environment, or operating system. Similar to SharePoint, except bigger. It doesn't do anything on it's own. You have to do a lot of work to make it work for you.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    9. Re:Now Open It by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Funny

      SAP can easily run organizations an order of magnitude bigger

      I lost it at easily.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    10. Re:Now Open It by Pope · · Score: 4, Funny

      It is easy! The users and their business models are simply all wrong LOL

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    11. Re:Now Open It by Kookus · · Score: 1

      SAP can handle payroll, and some organizations actually use that functionality. Let me know who you've found that kept their job after messing up payroll (who isn't also sleeping with the boss).

      Enterprise or not... you're toast.

    12. Re:Now Open It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, just don't ask for the documentation because they skipped that part.

    13. Re:Now Open It by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      "or the superstar statusing of the engineers at Tesla."

      I heard that they look for people that demonstrate they are good and ignore fake things like degrees that do not show aptitude or drive.

      Granted this was from a friend of a friend that worked there as a drive systems engineer, he claimed that he was recruited by Tesla from his work on electric cars he was publishing online.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    14. Re:Now Open It by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Oracle seems to be able to. They blew up payroll for a large company, Comcast. Completely pooched payroll right after the AT&T merger and pissed off a ton of people.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    15. Re:Now Open It by tgd · · Score: 2

      Maybe they exist, but have you ever seen a company that actually could deploy or upgrade SAP faster than building something in house?

      Depends how complete their understanding of their immediate, short term and mid-term requirements are.

      I'd say yes, for companies that actually had a good handle on their requirements. I also think most companies are bad about calculating the real costs of doing a complex system like that DIY. Its easy to enumerate the up front costs, but much harder to enumerate the costs over time of support, enhancements, and hardest of all, operational inefficiencies because the system couldn't do "X" and there wasn't time, resources, understanding, etc, to implement it.

    16. Re:Now Open It by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1, Troll

      does the company even know what it's going to be doing 10 years down the line?

      Probably not, though in Tesla's case if they keep having their cars burst into flames when they get into an accident, they may not be around in 10 years (that's not a slap, just a comment).

      Does SAP make it any easier to change as you company evolves over the next 10 years?

      Hell no! SAP doesn't make it easy to change, PERIOD.

      SAP isn't something you can just install and forget about it.

      Don't worry. Once you install SAP you can never forget about it with the constant changing of screens to perform the simplest of operations.

      Similar to SharePoint, except bigger.

      If you were trying to extoll the virtues of SAP, you failed miserably.

      It doesn't do anything on it's own.

      It doesn't do much when you're using it other than get in your way.

      You have to do a lot of work to make it work for you.

      I thought the purpose of SAP (and Oracle) was to make my life easier. Why should I have to do a lot of work to make it work?

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    17. Re:Now Open It by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      SAP upgrades can easily take that long, but SAP can easily run organizations an order of magnitude bigger, and two orders of magnitude more complicated than Tesla.

      From the comments I'm readin in this story, my take home messege here is that SAP probably shouldn't run organizations at all. What the hell does their software do for all this expense and hassle anyway?

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    18. Re:Now Open It by fatphil · · Score: 5, Funny

      >> SAP can easily run organizations an order of magnitude bigger

      > I lost it at easily.

      I misread it as "SAP can easily ruin ..."

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    19. Re:Now Open It by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      I think all that stuff is just as much a problem with SAP. Lots of costs because it did not do X on launch day.

      Not saying you're wrong, just saying it is not unique to building in house.

    20. Re:Now Open It by Anrego · · Score: 2

      It's one of those great mysteries.

      I've yet to meet anyone that didn't despise SAP. It's a terrible user experience, it's a terrible admin experience, and it costs a metric-fucktonne.

      Trying to implement SAP has literally bankrupted companies!

      And yet, it persists. It must provide some value to someone, somewhere..

    21. Re:Now Open It by atom1c · · Score: 1

      From the comments I'm readin in this story, my take home messege here is that SAP probably shouldn't run organizations at all. What the hell does their software do for all this expense and hassle anyway?

      It bankrupts companies, destroys employee morale, solidifies job security (if you're on the deployment team), and guarantees over-procurement of IT systems to support any given deployment.

      But more seriously, nothing. Most purchasers are non-technical folks who cannot understand the difference between MySQL DB and MariaDB... much less the technical intricacies of proprietary German-engineered software stacks crazy-glued together over IT generations with absolute abandon. Heck, even their most useful documentation is not properly translated into English!!! (If they cannot translate the how-to manual, then how would anyone expect them to configure the entire platform properly for today's... or tomorrow's needs?)

    22. Re:Now Open It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you build it yourself (you being the corporation, not an individual), the great thing is you *only* need to consider the immediate need. When you have new immediate needs, you know the software and can organically grow revise it or the process to meet the next immediate need. You'll never have that level of competence in someone else's software stack.

    23. Re:Now Open It by atom1c · · Score: 1

      Everyone knows of a company that is implementing SAP. Can anyone name a company that has completed their implementation of SAP?

      Nope. SAP doesn't even fully dogfood their own stuff! The last multi-year multinational SAP "upgrade" deployment I personally know about... decided that Google Apps for Business was better (IOW, they abandoned the SAP stack). About 9 months after the limited Google redeployment, they transferred over to Microsoft's 365 offerings plus other SaaS-based commercial players (e.g. Salesforce) to handle everything from HR to ERP to CRM to KM... to fully replace SAP in every which way.

    24. Re:Now Open It by kencurry · · Score: 1

      "...I heard that they look for people that demonstrate they are good and ignore fake things like degrees that do not show aptitude or drive.

      hhhmmmm, this explains those random electrical fires and that tablet monstrosity near the driver... [j/k - I like their cars, just not gonna spend 80k on one.]

      --
      sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
    25. Re:Now Open It by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      Maybe they exist, but have you ever seen a company that actually could deploy or upgrade SAP faster than building something in house?

      Depends how complete their understanding of their immediate, short term and mid-term requirements are.

      My take away from all the articles I read about SAP implementations (most of which have failed just like most large IT projects):
      The successful implementations actually revised or at least analyzed their business processes.
      In my own experience, I see people complaining all the time about how bad the inventory system.
      But whenever I've been tasked to fix it, I can't find any computer problems. It's not like someone entered 5 widgets and the computer changes the number to 6 or 65 or changes the item to pencils or paper instead of leaving it as widget.

      Inventory systems fail because they aren't kept up-to-date.
      They aren't kept up-to-date because updating the records is too difficult.
      The usual fix is to write a brand-new inventory system with too many fields for anyone to want to waste time tracking.
      However, the new system does fix the inaccuracy of the inventory (for a while).
      That is only because during implementation, everything is counted and entered.
      Keeping things up-to-date is a lot gnarlier problem and at minimum, it requires having fewer fields to track and management buy-in to make sure employees follow the process.

      Most SAP implementations fail the same way. Too much crap to track and no management buy-in for the process.

    26. Re:Now Open It by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      I think many companies (talking large multinationals here) are mistaken about what they actually need. And SAP has its own issues when it comes to operational inefficiencies, like the sometimes Byzantine user interface, and weird ways in which stuff taht is supposed to be integrated and tied together neatly really isn't.

      Not saying that rolling your own is necessarily a good idea, not all corporations (even large ones) are set up for that. But I think the market is ready for more nimble products that do one thing really well, and are open enough to integrate sufficiently well with other stuff through APIs or services.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    27. Re:Now Open It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I could afford it, I'd buy one. They're technically advanced, efficient, practical, and they even look good.

    28. Re:Now Open It by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Are you talking about two different situations, or do you perhaps mean NBC instead of AT&T in the latter example? Comcast & AT&T have not merged....

    29. Re:Now Open It by Lumpy · · Score: 1
      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    30. Re:Now Open It by kermidge · · Score: 1

      Amen. Keep it simple and easy enough on the front end where people won't mind, might even like, to enter the damn data.

      I was looking forward to reading the article linked in the summary, btw, but got turned off by the paywall. Too bad.

    31. Re:Now Open It by Teancum · · Score: 1

      It also doesn't hurt that Tesla has put together a fairly sizable software development staff simply for its own products, products where the software development costs are trivial compared to the hardware that accompanies that software.

      I would agree that it is likely the salesman from SAP was likely overcharging Tesla, but then again there isn't really much experience with American start-up automobile manufacturing companies to compare against either. You either need to compare against a company like Fisker or General Motors... and there isn't much in between.

    32. Re:Now Open It by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      OK, you're right, but that's definitely very different than "the AT&T merger". I don't think that's well known (or at least well-remembered). It made it sound like they bought all of AT&T.

    33. Re:Now Open It by Teancum · · Score: 1

      Probably not, though in Tesla's case if they keep having their cars burst into flames when they get into an accident, they may not be around in 10 years (that's not a slap, just a comment).

      It hasn't hurt that in each case that those cars burst into flame that the customers involved in those crashes have ordered a new Tesla automobile to replace the one that was destroyed..... well that and the customers also walked away from a potentially fatal accident in spite of the fire.

      Besides, all this really means is that Tesla automobiles are starting to be common on the highways. And you consider that to be a bad thing? Thousands of these vehicles are being driven every day now, and sometimes crap happens.

    34. Re:Now Open It by cusco · · Score: 1

      Its salescritters see no end of value, maybe not to their customers but certainly to them.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    35. Re:Now Open It by AaronW · · Score: 1

      I have a friend whos background was in transmissions and driive train stuff. He was hired by Tesla to do CAD work when one day his boss was lamenting that he wished they had someone who knew transmissions. This is back when the Roadster was burning out 3rd party transmissions in 5K miles because they couldn't handle the instant torque. My friend told his boss to re-read his resume. He now works on drive train stuff (in addition to CAD).

      One thing Elon emphasized when I heard him talk is that they want people with experience in multiple disciplines working together to solve problems with thinking outside the box.

      It's easy to see how the company is different just going into the service center. I doubt you would see people running around on electric scooters and bicycles at GM, Having their factory and main service center so close to their engineering HQ also helps a lot since it's easy for people servicing the cars to talk with the designers to discuss problems they are having and fix them quickly on the assembly line.

      --
      This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
    36. Re:Now Open It by AaronW · · Score: 1

      I remember when that happened. My thought at the time was Thank God for Comcast! It's really sad when AT&T makes Comcast look great. AT&T managed to make dial-up perform better than my cable modem. For six months they decided to throttle upstream traffic to 128Kbps. They did it by combining everyone's upstream traffic through the same 128Kbps pipe resulting in 40-60% packet loss on a good day. It was like that for over 6 months.

      --
      This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
    37. Re:Now Open It by locofungus · · Score: 1

      SAP upgrades can easily take that long, but SAP can easily run organizations

      This isn't my experience.

      First SAP is deployed, then it goes though millions of "fixes" that make it about 5 years late.

      Finally, everyone is forced to change what were working processes so that SAP can handle it.

      Eventually things settle down - some things have improved, some things have got worse but a lot of money has been spent in the process and overall things are no better (I guess the CEOs reports are printed on shinier paper but I've never seen that side of things)

      --
      God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
    38. Re:Now Open It by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      No it's not.

      Comcast and AT&T Broadband merged and it was called the "at&t" merger for the year before and after it.

      Just because you don't like it doesn't change it.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    39. Re:Now Open It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you talking about two different situations, or do you perhaps mean NBC instead of AT&T in the latter example? Comcast & AT&T have not merged....

      Fifteeen or so years ago, old AT&T (the long-distance company left over after the Bell System was broken up) bought up a lot of cable TV companies, including TCI, which they called AT&T Broadband. They couldn't figure out how to integrate the new TV business and the old long-distance phone business, so they spun ATT Broadband off as a separate company.It got bought by Comcast.

      ATT Long Distance got bought by SBC Commnications of Texas a couple years later, which took the AT&T trademark and death star logo to become The New AT&T (which is strangely like the old Bell System monopoly.)

    40. Re:Now Open It by Confusador · · Score: 1

      I don't think that most organizations are more or less likely to have a SAP implementation come in under budget and within spec than doing it themselves. But when the in-house project fails, the project manager loses their job and the whole thing gets started over. When SAP fails, well, "they're the best in the industry... if they can't do it no one could..." So management sucks it up and commits the needed resources to finish. Sure, the end result isn't as good as if they had commited properly to doing it in house, but at least it got done in the end, and no one lost their job.

    41. Re:Now Open It by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      ... unless that need is already built in. Multiple language support, different currencies, metric units...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    42. Re:Now Open It by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      They could theoretically invest more money into its development to make it appropriate for mass market consumption.

      Some guys at IBM had an idea like that. Management didn't think it was a good idea.

      The guys left and set up shop on their own. I wonder where they are now...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    43. Re:Now Open It by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You probably don't remember the old days, when you had your accounting system written in C080|_ on a mainframe, your stock control system written in PL/1 on an AS400 and your sales system built on Access on Win NT.

      Sales would take an order, then tomorrow have to call the customer to tell him they can't fulfill it because there isn't any product, but they didn't know that because the overnight interface didn't work because the product codes weren't in sync. And then when they do ship it (Fred knows how to frig it, but he always forgets to readjust after so the stock'll be wrong in the other direction next week), they find out the customer is in default on the last two payments but they didn't know that because the accounting interface fell over because they were out of punch cards.

      What SAP does is that it doesn't do all that.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  3. No article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Don't bother clicking through - nothing but the same summary.

    1. Re:No article by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Yeah, at first I thought it was adblock/noscript. There is nothing here to view even after I disabled those extensions.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    2. Re:No article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't bother clicking through - nothing but the same summary.

      It isn't an article-- it is a tweet.

    3. Re:No article by filmorris · · Score: 1

      What do you mean, you follow the links in slashdot summaries? I thought that was a no-no.

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  4. A risky gamble by girlintraining · · Score: 1, Informative

    Many, if not most, IT initiatives with homebrew tech fails. It's nice when it pays off, but almost always it is over budget and under spec. If the CEO got lucky, good for him, but his CIO shouldn't be sitting in the big chair if he didn't at least warn him it could all go horribly wrong.

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    1. Re:A risky gamble by gaudior · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How many SAP installs come in at or below budget? How many are actually completed at all, let alone on-time?

    2. Re:A risky gamble by nbvb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I disagree.

      Some of the most successful IT shops I've ever worked in have been 'build' vs. 'buy' shops. They get tremendous cost advantage from having internally-developed tools that exactly meet the needs of their business.

      Done right, it works very, very well.

    3. Re:A risky gamble by Nerdfest · · Score: 2

      There's usually very good reasons it goes wrong. If they tried re-writing SAP, tehy would have as well. I would guess they had very clear specifications for what they needed, and implemented only that, ideally in a concise maintainable well. Bad specs and scope creep kill most projects like this, yet people rarely seem to learn from past mistakes. They're far more likely skilled than lucky.

    4. Re:A risky gamble by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

      The problem is, with solutions like SAP, it's also over budget and under spec.
      Atleast with homebrew you have a change to ever reach spec and you don't have to spend the same budget again every next year.

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    5. Re:A risky gamble by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      .. also, you're completely correct that he should have been warned, although more about the common mistakes rather than the rarity of success, in my opinion.

    6. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many, if not most, IT initiatives fail. Period.

    7. Re:A risky gamble by girlintraining · · Score: 2

      I disagree. [...] Done right, it works very, very well.

      Yes, the same can be said for any risk-taking behavior. "I haven't worn my seat belt for years and nothing bad has ever happened to me."

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    8. Re:A risky gamble by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      Atleast with homebrew you have a change to ever reach spec and you don't have to spend the same budget again every next year.

      In other news, some people believe patching and bug hunting is free and that software never needs modification once installed. There will never be a support cost of any kind.

      --
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    9. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You must have little experience with SAP. To stick with SAP is a sure loser. Building your own backend, at least you have a chance for your system to match your business process instead of you having to twist your business around to fit it. SAP is built to accommodate multiple industries and adds multiple steps to any one particular industry because of it. Steps that often require manual data entry or adjustments. My former CEO crowed it was "The Cadilac System" and spent millions on it. What a friken waste.. I will never work for a company that uses SAP again. There is a reason Walmart, Amazon, and a few other large MULTI BILLION DOLLAR companies " roll there own. They need a system that works.

    10. Re:A risky gamble by rsborg · · Score: 1

      Many, if not most, IT initiatives with homebrew tech fails.

      s/with homebrew tech//

      Failure is the default for IT projects - last I heard it was 80% failure rate - most of this is due to unrealistic expectations, newbies billed as "senior" devs, and a project management methodology steeped in anti-patterns [1]. None of this is more prevalent in home-brew over vendor-supplied projects, in fact I'd say it's more likely the other way around.

      [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-pattern#Project_management

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    11. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But spending millions of dollars on an SAP implementation that doesn't get done in over twice the agreed upon window, costs 4x as much as projected, and wasn't able to fulfill its goal is risky too. Or at least that's what the people who pay me to write custom software said about their attempt at it.

    12. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Homebrew tech fails not because it's homebrew, but because of bad design practice. (Which is caused by any number of factors from inexperience to bad management to politics) Elon has created the sort of company that tends to do things correctly and design seems to be one of their strong points.

      This is also SAP we're talking about. Faced with a SAP upgrade, I'd be more inclined to migrate to a pile of unorganized post it notes carelessly thrown in to old filing cabinets in the janitor's closet.

    13. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My experience dictacts that it is not always over budget and under spec. However, as developers come and go, undocumented bugs and problems start cropping up. No thought is given to long term maintenance and bug fixes. You end up with needed developers to rewrite most of it in a few years when there is no one left to understand all the parts and pieces.

    14. Re:A risky gamble by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Considering he had 25 people working on it. If each of those 25 people cost him $100,000 a year (salary and other related expenses), and they worked for 4 months on the project, then it cost him over $800,000 to implement the system. Although as others alluded to, I'm sure you could get a SAP system that would cost as much, and probably take as long to implement. It's not like MS Office, where you can just install it, and have it do everything it was meant to do. It would have been a big project either way. I wonder what the track record is like for SAP implementations going over-budget, past-schedule, or not doing what they need to do?

      --

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    15. Re: A risky gamble by jd2112 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Risk vs. reward. What have you gained from not wearing seatbelts other than perhaps a few less wrinkles on your clothes?

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    16. Re:A risky gamble by m2pc · · Score: 2, Informative

      We just went through this exact same exercise at the company I work for. When our antiquated, poorly-designed MRP system started causing too many headaches, we carefully counted the cost of moving to something like Salesforce.com or SAP, but ultimately ended up writing out own system from scratch. After running the two systems in parallel for 6 months to ensure the new system had data integrity we were comfortable with, we cut it off. Having just closed our first month "live" on the new system, I must say it's a real breath of fresh air for both the IS staff and the rest of the company. Gone are the days waiting for the slow moving MRP company to update their slow system to add features or fix bugs for us. Our hands were tied with the old system, and now the door is open to all sorts of possibilities. People are constantly saying "wow, we can do xyz now!" or "this wasn't even possible before with the old system". The daily complaints about the old system have been replaced with daily feature requests and positive comments.

      The small team that built it remains on staff, and if something doesn't work, we fix it. If someone requests a feature that makes sense to the overall design goal, we sketch it out, schedule it, and implement it. We carefully weigh everyone's feature requests and implement only those that make sense for the overall "greater good" of the system. That way we keep feature creep down while building something that helps people get their job done faster. In the time between bug fixes and feature request, we are constantly polishing the system to make it more efficient. We now have a DEV environment where we can test out new ideas and features and release them to production only when they are ready.

      Since we built ours with FOSS technologies, it's been a joy to integrate with our other trading partners (suppliers, our web store shopping cart, etc). The money we are saving on not having to pay for licensing costs (recurring yearly, never ending), we have invested in hardware and infrastructure to run the new system.

      Perhaps the biggest benefit is when the system is released, the company will have a team on staff that knows the system inside and out, because they built it.

      I would highly recommend any company considering buying an out-of-the-box ERP system to consider having an in-house team build them a custom solution. With the right group of developers, it can be a really rewarding experience for everyone!

    17. Re:A risky gamble by paiute · · Score: 1

      My former CEO crowed it was "The Cadilac System" and spent millions on it. What a friken waste..

      My former employer spent $10 million and counting on an SAP upgrade. I wondered if we went back to using index cards if we could ever be $10 million less efficient.

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    18. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      *Crickets*

    19. Re:A risky gamble by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      So you're implying that if you buy it, the support will be free? I thought the support was the most expensive thing. An in-house tool with only the features your company uses might have much lower support cost. You can also respond to support requests by modifying the feature to make it more clear; and you can do that quickly.

    20. Re:A risky gamble by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      The same as any other equipment, if you aren't maintaining it consistently, in a few years when a part breaks and a mechanic finally opens it up, it is a rusted mess and you have to replace the whole thingamajig.

    21. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      someone i know who was unlucky enough to be stuck with it, said that it takes a year or more to get it configured and tested and whatever for your environment. and its the worst piece of junk software he has ever worked with.

      there is an article from years back how AT&T spent millions of $$$ and months of coding and it was a failure and created a lot of problems

    22. Re:A risky gamble by Kookus · · Score: 2

      I can play the same game...
      Many, if not most, IT initiatives with homebrew tech succeed. It's hurts when it doesn't pays off, but almost always it is under budget and satisfies the unique requirements of the business. If the CEO got unlucky, too bad for him, but his CIO shouldn't be sitting in the big chair if he didn't at least recommend doing it in house.

      Unfortunately statements like these are easy to reword the exact opposite and not sound crazy. If you look at Gartner's statistics, they have a pretty even split between successful and failed implementations. From my experience, the outcome is completely dependent on the personnel. If you get people that are intelligent and want it to succeed in leadership roles (and they get along with each other), you'll have a lot better chance than having people who are coming for a huge paycheck and flying home on a Thursday afternoon.

      Since Tesla probably has a pretty intelligent staff, I'm not surprised that they would succeed.

    23. Re:A risky gamble by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 2

      Many, if not most, IT initiatives with homebrew tech fails.

      I've seen $15k home-brewed storage solutions outpace $50k vended ones as well as $2500 servers outperform $20k ones. Those home-brews rely on talented in-house labor however, so if you can't keep the good employees around, you had better go the $50k route. Oh, don't forget the $4500/year maintenance contract and 3-5 day tier 1 support callbacks from people with such thick accents the interpreter needs an interpreter. That's not fail though because it's a purchased product amiright?

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    24. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yep a guy who built his first tech company at 24 got lucky
      what does a founder of paypal know about large scale software projects compared to arm chair CIO on slashdot

    25. Re:A risky gamble by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      So SAP support is cheap or free?

      To make these claims you must be an SAP integrator/sales person.

    26. Re:A risky gamble by Tridus · · Score: 1

      Considering the high cost, higher failure rate, and even higher odds of going overbudget on trying to get SAP to do what you want, I'm not even remotely convinced it was a gamble. If you already have a team in place, this is the less risky way to go because you're only going to build what you need and you're not dependent on a third party to maybe one day make it work if you throw enough consultant money at them.

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    27. Re:A risky gamble by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Where would you find an SAP system that cheap?
      There is no way one could be rolled out in 4 months.

      I have never seen one that did not go over budget and past schedule, nor did what they wanted on launch day. I have not seen that many, but enough to guess that is the common outcome.

    28. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      same where i work, except our is over a decade old

      the dev teams build out small feature requests and bug fixes and release weekly. impossible with COTS software

    29. Re:A risky gamble by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      I don't think you're counting the $1-200k salary of that in-house labor.

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    30. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good point, but we're not talking about your average software engineers here... these guys are top talent, hence the reduced risk of the decision.

    31. Re: A risky gamble by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      "What have you gained from not wearing seatbelts other than perhaps a few less wrinkles on your clothes?"

      They gain the smug ability to say: "Fuck-the-gubberment I ain't wearing no seat belt. dis heres a free country and I can make my own dumb decisions"

    32. Re: A risky gamble by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Risk vs. reward. What have you gained from not wearing seatbelts other than perhaps a few less wrinkles on your clothes

      I have learned that most people are utter shit at estimating risk. Especially people who think they're smart and are good at it, but don't actually do the math. We spend trillions to prevent terrorism, but next to nothing to prevent drunk driving. It's because people think that risks they have control over are far less than those they don't, so drunk driving is "Well, I'll be driving, and I'm a good driver, so the risk must be low", and terrorism is "I'll be strapped into the plane and not in control... so it must be much, much worse."

      The same kind of thinking applies to rolling your own software, instead of buying it. People are not objective about risk. They flat out suck at it. As for me... what I've learned is to wear my goddamned seat belt, because I read the statistics and know that there's about a 1 in 5 risk of getting into a car accident every year, and the seat belt means a 90% reduction in probable injury -- Without it, I'm just hamburger through the window.

      Which is like most companies when they decide to cook their own complex software... they usually wind up paying more, but because they never analyze their own decisions, they, like you, think it's actually less.

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    33. Re:A risky gamble by fatphil · · Score: 1

      My former employer used home-brewed tools. I wish I hadn't read this story, as I was just starting to forget the daily brain-rape that I had to endure. This has set me back weeks. Index cards would have been more effective, certainly.

      --
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    34. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Done Right" it still requires a dedicated IT staff and perpetual payments to SAP. Why would any large corporation tolerate such an financial drain?

    35. Re:A risky gamble by pspahn · · Score: 1

      You know there are bright people out there who are willing to work for less money with the understanding that the job itself is more enjoyable and there are rewards down the road.

      Not saying any company can just find these people, but they do exist.

      In my case, I work for the family business, otherwise it would be nigh impossible for them to hire a developer of my skill level while still paying them the same *relative* peanuts I get. The reward is in knowing I am improving the business in a very cost-effective manner, and that these efforts will pay off down the line when our revenue doubles because of my work.

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    36. Re: A risky gamble by cusco · · Score: 2

      On the other hand, the statistics about SAP rollouts would tend to indicate a very high degree of risk inherent in attempting to use that system.

      --
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    37. Re:A risky gamble by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      The trick is to tell the CIO of the company that is your customer that the price and deadline time doubles every single time they make changes. The trick is to get an accurate scope and then a project manager that will tell the customer NO! in a way that they understand, I.E. excessively high prices and they sign a paper that the deadline is ok to ignore. Suddenly that feature that they dreamed up in a meeting is not so important anymore. If it's really important then they will be OK with letting the system solidify and then start a new project to add it.

      Software is 100% identical to Construction. you can not add a new Solarium in the middle of it after construction is 80% complete, et most software companies dont have the balls to tell the customer, "It will cost you an additional $22,000,000 at this point to add that and we have to throw away everything and start over.

      The ones that do are the ones that are successful.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    38. Re:A risky gamble by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      talented in-house labor is expensive. Otherwise, it doesn't stay in-house. Those ARE the rewards down the road.

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    39. Re: A risky gamble by MyLongNickName · · Score: 1

      I have learned that most people are utter shit at estimating risk

      I will see and raise you. I would go as far as to say that everyone sucks at risk management. The fact is that even the most rational of us are driven by base instincts and our habits more than rational thought. And when you get a group of us humans together, the risk management gets even worse. Decisions get made out of fear more than rational thought.

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    40. Re: A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yah med me laff

    41. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like, I modded my fuel pump and I've been 100 mpg for the last 3 years. Sure it could burn my car to the ground at any given moment, but I'm betting that I'll have saved enough on gas that it'll be worth it.

      Hint: Teslas bet already paid off.

    42. Re: A risky gamble by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, the statistics about SAP rollouts would tend to indicate a very high degree of risk inherent in attempting to use that system.

      The "other" hand? You're going to take something that's inherently complex and risky even when done professionally by a company with hundreds of developers... and then roll your own? And that's less of a risk in your world?

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    43. Re:A risky gamble by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      Many, if not most, IT initiatives with homebrew tech fails. It's nice when it pays off...

      Most SAP initiatives also fail. Most small businesses fail at business within two years.

    44. Re:A risky gamble by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      I disagree.

      Some of the most successful IT shops I've ever worked in have been 'build' vs. 'buy' shops. They get tremendous cost advantage from having internally-developed tools that exactly meet the needs of their business.

      Done right, it works very, very well.

      The done right is the tricky part. And that requires actually knowing the needs of the business.
      Most execs 'need' SAP because they want an enterprise system. They don't talk about buying it to fix a particular problem, then spend more exec time analyzing the problem to decide what a profitable fix would look like. Businesses that actually do that don't have too much of a problem implementing SAP (because they do it bit by bit) nor do they have much problem writing a solution in-house.

      But most folks don't understand the problem and are really, really surprised when the solution doesn't work, whether developed in-house or purchased.

    45. Re: A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I love that you're so dependably wrong about everything.

    46. Re:A risky gamble by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      At a guess he realised it's better to treat your employees well so you can get good talent that does a good job. That and what they really need is probably a fraction of what SAP can do so it shouldn't take that long.

      Only a consultant would think that it's better to outsource than to hire competent talent and treat them well.

    47. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      An ex-employer of mine has been at it for years. I'm sure it'll happen one of these days. But for now I would assume the consultants are having too much fun milking them.

    48. Re:A risky gamble by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      A seat belt isn't even necessarily to protect yourself but to protect others from you. So I'm not sure that analogy works. Also you'd have a point if there was clear proof that going with SAP or any other buy-in clearly worked better. That is far from the truth. I've seen it go wrong and come in late numerous times. Then when shit goes wrong it can't be fixed asap because there's zero talent within the company and you pay through the nose to get someone to fix it for you.

    49. Re:A risky gamble by benjfowler · · Score: 1

      People don't just consider salary. I'm sure there are loads of super-talented engineers who'd given their two front teeth just for a chance to work for Elon Musk.

    50. Re:A risky gamble by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      *Co-founder* of a company that *became* paypal (due to acquisitions).

    51. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      s/SAP/IT Project

    52. Re:A risky gamble by Teancum · · Score: 1

      In the case of Tesla, they can also bring the software engineers onto the factory floor where the software is actually being used, and to do that during a lunch break where the factory workers and that engineer share that lunch and they all go back to work that same afternoon. This is very important in a manufacturing company to have the engineers see the final product as it is being shipped out and to be able to fix problems and anticipate changes even before it becomes a problem. Those companies who outsource their engineering (of any kind) fail to get this kind of dividend.

      Some smart companies even have the junior engineers spend a fair bit of time (about 3-6 months) on the factory floor simply building the product as a way to introduce them to everything that is going on and to understand the products that the company is making. That can be costly (not to mention that some of those junior engineers think it is a waste of their engineering degree), but in the long run gets much better engineering to happen.

    53. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aerospace here, we did the same thing 2 years ago for one of the countries we operate in, it's been fantastic. Fuck SAP. Just make sure everything in the custom built is professionally documented or you'll suffer later!

    54. Re: A risky gamble by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      I love that you're so dependably wrong about everything.

      I'm willing to come out and speak my mind, and more often than not, others agree. Whereas you... all you can do is snipe at someone who's earned their reputation for being insightful and strives to look beyond superficial appearances. Right, wrong, at least I'm putting my name on what I say. You... on the other hand, are so lacking in confidence about your own opinion you won't tell us who you are. Because the truth is, you're a coward. An anonymous coward. And I'm not. I'm the girl on slashdot everybody knows, and whether you agree with me or not, most likely you respect me.

      Because I earned it. Now crawl back down your troll hole.

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    55. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Australia good old sap caused missed and late payments for government workers for over a year. They pushed ahead with a broader release to other departments during the middle of these issues, because you know, that would obviously help fix the problem by spreading it around more!

    56. Re: A risky gamble by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, the statistics about SAP rollouts would tend to indicate a very high degree of risk inherent in attempting to use that system.

      The "other" hand? You're going to take something that's inherently complex and risky even when done professionally by a company with hundreds of developers... and then roll your own? And that's less of a risk in your world?

      That's not *at all* what's being done though. They're not replacing ALL of SAP; they're replacing the small parts that are applicable to them.

      If I tried to build a full replacement for the recently discontinued Google Homepage on my own, it would be a disaster. Too many widgets. But if I tried to build one just for myself, it'd probably go great, because all I'd want is a handful of fixed RSS feed. Throw together some PHP XML parsing and be done in a couple hours. And if there's a particular UI I want, I might be better off rolling my own rather than spending time deciding on and throwing Greasemonkey scripts at an existing similar service.

      If they don't need much of what SAP does, then why the hell would they pay for it? At a certain point I'd put that in the category of 'no such system exists, build your own'. Things can also be useless because they do too much; not just because they do too little.

    57. Re: A risky gamble by cusco · · Score: 1

      It can be. Any large software product rollout is inherently risky, SAP more than most. Not just because it's a big, complex thing with a lot of parts that don't necessarily fit together well, but because of the cost. By the time SAP has been purchased it has gone up the food chain as high as it can because of the obscene cost of the product, its implementation, and its ongoing fees. Once executives are involved that bane of the corporate world, the executive ego, is deeply committed. Money pours into the project by the dump truck load, as the executives get more and more desperate for the project to at least be functional enough to be declared, if not a success, at least not an utter catastrophe. I've seen two Oracle rollouts follow this exact path.

      Elon Musk is not one to make decisions in a vacuum. It's likely they were unhappy with their existing SAP install (almost everyone is), and were looking at a massive multimillion dollar multi-month (or multi-year) project that would take over the resources of their IT staff for the duration, for an upgrade whose value is questionable at best. If they tried rolling their own the worst that could happen is that they've spent a couple of months on a project that won't be implemented and will still have to do the SAP project, while having gotten a better handle on their own internal business practices. I imagine the conversation went something like:

      IT Director: I can't believe the cost for this freaking upgrade. It's such a piece of crap, and now we have to cough up a big pile of money just to upgrade. I swear, we could probably write our own code for less.

      Musk: You think so?

      IT Director: Umm, yeah, probably.

      Musk: Go do it.

      IT Director: Oh, shit.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    58. Re:A risky gamble by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Yep, but they wouldn't do it for a huge pay cut.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    59. Re:A risky gamble by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      Only a consultant would think that it's better to outsource than to hire competent talent and treat them well.

      As a consultant myself -- that's very true in many ways :) Just graduated last year, got hired straight away by a big consulting firm. I'm sitting there in training as they're giving everyone their client placements, and some of the guys are going 'Hey, I applied to work for these guys -- and they turned me down!'. And generally we're getting paid a better salary, plus the profits to the consultancy. So the company is probably paying twice as much to hire the exact same people they could have hired directly if their HR weren't morons.

      Of course...you don't have to worry about training if you get consultants, and you can be halfway though development for a new version, decide you don't want those features anymore, and scrap it without worrying about where the developers are gonna go -- which just happened to me, got moved to a new project a few months back because mine got dumped, and I'll be moving back in a couple weeks now when they start work on the next version. So yeah, if you look solely at it as dollars per coder hour -- ie, if your development needs remains fairly constant -- consultants rip you off massively. But if you really need that flexibility it's actually probably worth it.

      TL;DR: Like the SAP crap, if you're buying stuff that doesn't actually fit your requirements, you're gonna get screwed.

    60. Re:A risky gamble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually we have had two major SAP upgrades completed under time and under budget in the last two years (two discrete Business units/ two discrete implementations). Didn't use the usual SAP "suck your money up and spit out dreck" consultants but a small local specialist firm.

    61. Re:A risky gamble by Hognoxious · · Score: 1
      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  5. article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    By Rachael King

    Reporter

    Half Moon Bay, Calif. — Leave it to Elon Musk to buck conventional wisdom. When Tesla Motors Inc.TSLA +7.29%, the Silicon Valley-based automaker he founded, needed to improve the backend software that runs its business, he decided not to upgrade the company’s software from SAP AGSAP.XE 0.00%. Instead, he told CIO Jay Vijayan to build it himself.

    “Initially, I was very skeptical,” said Mr. Vijayan, Thursday, at Constellation Research Inc.’s Connected Enterprise Conference in Half Moon Bay, Calif. But, in the end, “Elon was right,” he said, adding that the new system gives his company the speed and agility it needs. His team built it in just four months.

    Guus Schoonewille/AFP/Getty Images
    A view of a Tesla car on an assembly line
    Last year, Tesla was facing delivery delays of the all-electric Model S which it introduced on June 22, 2012. At the same time, Mr. Vijayan’s team of about 25 software engineers was working hard to build a system that could support ramped up production. The improved information technology systems are important for managing high volume production of the Model S, according to company filings. The system went live in July 2012.

    Backend software, known as enterprise resource planning software, can make or break a company. SAP has become the world’s largest business software company by building incredibly complex software that can manage customers, suppliers, and the entire lifecycle of a product. SAP says that it is a leading provider of technology for the automobile industry, with nine out of the top 10 companies running SAP applications.

    The software is widely used by other large companies as well. Hewlett-Packard Co., for example, uses SAP software to manage the operations needed to sell its printers, servers and PCs. H-P CIO Ramon Baez, also attending the conference, told CIO Journal that it operates at too large a scale to build its own custom enterprise resource planning software.

    “You can shoot yourself in the foot if you don’t know what you’re doing,” said Mr. Vijayan. “You need the right team,” he said.

    Yet, Mr. Vijayan was in a tough spot. It can take more than a year and millions of dollars to roll out SAP software because of all the integration required. For example, NTT Data is currently undergoing a two-year, $20 million enterprise resource planning consolidation. Tesla didn’t have the time needed to undertake such a project. By creating a custom software project, he was able to get it up and running quickly, partially because it didn’t need integration of disparate applications. Because Mr. Musk made a clear decision, it also helped Mr. Vijayan get immediate cooperation from business leaders.

    Yet, there will likely be challenges ahead as Tesla grows. Building and running a lightweight enterprise resource planning system can be done when a company is relatively small but the problem is making it scale, Ben Haines, CIO at Box Inc. told CIO Journal.

    “I’m super confident that it’s going to be able to scale very well,” said Mr. Vijayan. “It’s now one of the best systems we have.”

    1. Re:article by spasm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I like how they describe SAPs customers as an industry (automobiles) which struggles, and a specifc company (HP) which outright sucks. If correlation was causation I'd say buying SAP is how you destroy a company.

    2. Re:article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it reads as a FUD piece promoting SAP. I've never seen an SAP installation go well, and I've seen three that did devastating damage to the company that installed it. (I can name one without breaking nondisclosure. PGP was unable to process orders for months; ended up selling itself)

      SAP is a snake oil product. it might be fine for industries who make widgets but they try to shoehorn into models which the software just isnt built for.

    3. Re:article by kermidge · · Score: 1

      thanks for posting this; short, interesting read. Mr. Vijayan's comment on right team is spot on. True for most stuff I've seen.

    4. Re:article by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      So they did [complicated thing] that takes [a long time] and did it in a short time by not doing [complicated bit].

      By that logic an upholsterer can make a car in a day, by leaving out the body, engine, transmission, suspension and electrics.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    5. Re:article by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      So they did [complicated thing] that takes [a long time] and did it in a short time by not doing [complicated bit].

      By that logic an upholsterer can make a car in a day, by leaving out the body, engine, transmission, suspension and electrics.

      Well yeah, that's exactly the point. Tesla is the upholsterer trying to sell car seats; SAP is telling them 'buy our cars and rip the seats out' and Tesla said 'screw that, we'll just produce our own seats!'

  6. Building it is one thing by nightsweat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maintaining it another. One of the hardest things to do is keep up with tax and regulatory changes in your software. You have to be aware of a change before you can implement it.

    --

    the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
    1. Re:Building it is one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeh a large public company has no in house finance expertise cause accounting and financial reporting requirements for a public company are trivial compared to tax changes.

    2. Re:Building it is one thing by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

      We have come to the painful realization that project and financial accounting cannot effectively be done with the same software. It actually has better value for us to hire anothe bookkeeper and run our tax books in QuickBooks and project accounting in a fairly simple database. All the downsides of rolling your own still exist in a packaged solution; the real costs are in the customization.

      In retrospect, rolling our own (even at contract rates of $135/hour) would have had a 3-year payback compared to the solution we went with. We could have even phased expansion of the system to keep the expenditure cash-flow positive. But, in the end it comes down to enterprise will and dedicating the resources required to identify needs, priorities, and what the future holds.

  7. back to the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When every organization did the same thing, had in-house staff to support it, and didn't have to bother with consultants. It can be a problem to keep track of all the different legal changes in the various locations though.

    1. Re:back to the good ole days by tgd · · Score: 2

      When every organization did the same thing, had in-house staff to support it, and didn't have to bother with consultants. It can be a problem to keep track of all the different legal changes in the various locations though.

      And hope, in 24 years, they've still got some geezers on the payroll who remember that old "Java" language from the early 21st century running on a crufty emulator no one can remember how to reinstall and can figure out all the places the engineers had said 4 bytes were plenty to hold a timestamp.

    2. Re:back to the good ole days by zarr · · Score: 1

      Hey, that's my retirement plan!

      To be fair, Java will generally yell at you if you try to assign a timestamp to an int.

    3. Re:back to the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is why you plan and budget for redesigned in the future. You don't expect your hardware to last forever and people shouldn't expect their software to do so as well. Software itself doesn't degrade, but the requirements and environment around it changes. Too many businesses don't understand this.

    4. Re:back to the good ole days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rather that than attempting to locate the H1B visa guy they "hired" for 6 months and then replaced.

    5. Re:back to the good ole days by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      All languages are so similar and that's not changing so only the most inept programming couldn't figure it out assuming they never change the system which is a naive idea.

  8. I keep warning you and you keep laughing... by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    You don't get ahead in SPEKTOR by saying "no" to Hank Scorpio. You get fed to the sharks.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:I keep warning you and you keep laughing... by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      You don't get ahead in SPEKTOR by saying "no" to Hank Scorpio. You get fed to the sharks.

      You're referencing a character who first appeared on the Simpsons in the 90s... before SAP software as a class even existed. I believe this reference is so damn obscure that only some hipster would recognize it without googling for it. And as for SPEKTOR... Google has nothing. So who knows...

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    2. Re:I keep warning you and you keep laughing... by Scottingham · · Score: 1

      Booo! The only Simpsons worth knowing is the 90s Simpsons, after about 2001 they were a husk of what they once were. Further, that is one of the best episodes from the series!

      GiT, I normally love your insightful comments. Not sure how knowing episodes from a 90s cartoon is 'hip', but I'll take it! If you haven't seen the episode yourself, I highly recommend it.

    3. Re:I keep warning you and you keep laughing... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2

      You're referencing a character who first appeared on the Simpsons in the 90s... before SAP software as a class even existed.

      What? ERP systems have been around since the 70s... SAP released R/2 in '79. If you're talking about R/3 (when they introduced server-client architecture), it was released in 1992.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    4. Re:I keep warning you and you keep laughing... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Yeah because the Simpsons aren't in re-runs or on DVD / streaming alternatives. THe kids today would just be totally clueless about it.

  9. Overly descriptive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do we really need to qualify the Model S as "all-electic"? This is a story about Tesla Motors... of COURSE the car is all electric.

    1. Re:Overly descriptive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I ordered mine with a 2-stroke model airplane engine to run the fan.

  10. Menards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Menards, the home improvement store chain, does a similar process.

    If it is remotely possible, every piece of software is written in house. From scheduling, project management, even an FTP client was all written in house, and sucks.

    They even used to alter the pinouts on RJ-45 Ethernet cable jacks to prevent "non-Menards" hardware from being connected to the networks at the stores. Nevermind that this required almost a full-time person to "make" the cables required for a nationwide chain, or that the cables they sold on the shelf wouldn't work in the store, it was MORE SECURE!

  11. It very much depends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it is the sort of thing the people developing themselves will have to be using (I don't mean same company, I mean literally the exact same people writing code has to use said code), then I think I have seen greater success. In other words, the new thing is born out of people writing their own out of a sense of frustration with what they do day to day. A critical facet for this is that such projects are 'skunkworks' and are never on the radar until they already are pretty successful. One thing making these things look good is that when they tank, usually only a handful of people even know it existed. They are developed at a 'when its ready' pace with annoyance driving progress forward in the absence of some management pressure to deliver.

    If business executive says 'the cost for this software is too damn high' and then assembles a team to effectively complete with the vendor solution, that generally pans out poorly almost all the time.

  12. Does I run Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I bet it uses a beowulf cluster architecture. Just make sure some idiot from accounting doesn't spill a bowl of hot grits on the server. Even with a journaling filesystem like ext4, or the superior ReFS, hot grits can petrify most sys admin types.

    I wish these Tesla folks the best of luck on this homebrew. In the end though the ROI and TCO will surely be much worse than a suitable off the shelf package from an established vendor like Microsoft or IBM. It may not matter, though, because Tesla will likely flameout and become the next Solyndra

  13. Tough Decision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow - that's why the CEOs make big bucks...tough decision...SAP, or build your own. Having used SAP, I would gladly farm the build out to a group of freshmen coders...chances are very high the product would be better anyway.

    (PS - that's freshmen in high school)

  14. Conventional Wisdom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The conventional wisdom is to use packages for anything that's not unique to your business, and build anything that is critical to your company's success. If your company is extremely innovative (meaning that you're trying to innovate everywhere -- how teams are built, how they interact, who makes decisions, etc.) then you really have no choice but to build everything. That's the situation Musk is in. His company is fiddling with pretty much everything, hoping to invent the "company of the future." That _doesn't_ mean it's a good idea for every CIO to follow his path. In fact, for _most_ CIOs, this would be suicidal.

    Context is everything.

  15. Ehhhrrrr.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Very fast, without using a gasoline motor"...?

  16. One reason to replace IT is energy costs by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Most data centers are now looking at green servers, or extremely green servers, including DC power for blade farms, just as a cost-cutting measure.

    It's like building a Tesla superhighway from Vancouver BC to San Diego CA with fast battery swap facilities so that you can actually drive an electric Tesla from one border to the next. People said it couldn't happen, but Tesla made it happen.

    Btw, the Tesla that burned was just a few miles from here, but our news has lots of cars and trucks burning all the time - they're actually SAFER than gasoline cars.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  17. not too surprising by darue · · Score: 1

    but "enterprise" (aka Patronage Fiefdoms) prefer to spend big money on invoices from other "enterprises" rather than trust their own people to do anything. That way if anything goes wrong they can just blame the vendor, have someone to sue, etc. It's pathetic but we have a lot of pathological culture in our large organizations. Starting with them being run by people who don't know how to do jack shit but get hired as "executives".

  18. Nor for Tesla next year. Build, Buy, FOSS by raymorris · · Score: 2

    Given that they only spent a few months on it and don't have experience building broadly applicable SAP systems, we can be pretty certain you are correct in this statement:

    > Their system is probably custom-tailored to their business processes. Not only would it not be appropriate for many other businesses ...

    It's probably still true if we change a few words:

    > Their system is probably custom-tailored to their current business processes. Not only would it not be appropriate for many other businesses, including Tesla a year or two from now, ...

    Generally, you should build within your core competency, and buy generic systems for generic tasks.
    Tesla should design their own cars, especially electrical subsystems of the cars, but buy trashcans, spreadsheets, and SAP.
    Their SAP needs aren't that different from the next company down the road.

    In a gray area, where you need something customized to your needs, but it's mostly the same as what other companies use, FOSS fits the bill. You get the 95% of common functionality free, then build the 5% that's unique to your needs.

    1. Re:Nor for Tesla next year. Build, Buy, FOSS by blackraven14250 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I mean, Tesla's core competency is definitely cars, but it's not like they're unfamiliar with software development. It's quite different rolling your own when you're just an auto maker with no history in software. Not only do Tesla's cars require more software and firmware than the traditional "competition", but they also have leadership which is absolutely competent in software development.

    2. Re:Nor for Tesla next year. Build, Buy, FOSS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Generally, you should build within your core competency, and buy generic systems for generic tasks.
      Tesla should design their own cars, especially electrical subsystems of the cars, but buy trashcans, spreadsheets, and SAP.
      Their SAP needs aren't that different from the next company down the road.

      Look, I understand that theory and generally endorse it, but for SAP in particular, the "off-the-shelf" (ha!) software they were using is god-awful, hilariously overpriced, and yet still bewilderingly popular.

      It's an exception to the rule in a way that rewriting, say, Excel would not be.

    3. Re:Nor for Tesla next year. Build, Buy, FOSS by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Generally, you should build within your core competency, and buy generic systems for generic tasks.

      A sensible suggestion, unless you find that the generic systems suck or don't even exist. In my line of work that happens more often than I expected. If that is the case, then you could consider rolling your own solution if you are set up to develop and support software outside your core competency. You'll probably want to hire some people who are competent in the area you're building software for. (Payroll seems easy at first glance but it really isn't)

      A nice example from the past: the Lyons company built the first ever business computer (the LEO); they preceived the need but no suitable computer was available so they rolled their own.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re:Nor for Tesla next year. Build, Buy, FOSS by benjfowler · · Score: 1

      Tesla do a fuckton of software.

    5. Re:Nor for Tesla next year. Build, Buy, FOSS by benjfowler · · Score: 1

      (Whoops, replied to wrong comment.)

    6. Re:Nor for Tesla next year. Build, Buy, FOSS by turbidostato · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Tesla should design their own cars, especially electrical subsystems of the cars, but buy trashcans, spreadsheets, and SAP."

      Correct.

      MBA-grade correct.

      And that pesky Bezos should focus on his company's core competencies, selling books, and let the generic part, like IT, to the good known providers on the field, as all other e-companies in these dot-com boom days are doing.

      After all, even if he ends up with a excellent IT group, what would he do with the spare capacity? Losing tons of money, I say.

  19. Jack of all trades, master of none by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The key thing people should get from this is that shoe horning a 'generic' monstrosity like SAP into any business is no way to meet a company's individual needs. SAP may do many things 'good enough' but it also does many more things like 'crap', because it's generic. If you simply want to burn money on untrained monkeys, SAP is for you and you'll pay for it (through the nose) for the remainder of your days. But if you're serious about your business and making the most of your IT resources, you don't hobble the company with an infrastructure that 'sort of fits'.

    1. Re:Jack of all trades, master of none by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      This is the crux of the whole enterprise app costing. Generic systems built for a generic set of needs. Then add the cost of modifications to tailor the systems for a specific company's need(s).

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  20. 4 months?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does that include the time required to learn German?

  21. Mod parent up. by khasim · · Score: 2

    In my experience, the biggest problem is when the CIO is not allowed to refuse requests. Once that is cleared (and the CIO is competent) then projects get finished on time and on budget.

    In this case, it sounds like Elon had a lot of confidence in Jay's ability as CIO.

  22. In House Manufactering by Kagato · · Score: 2

    Tesla does a tremendous amount of the work in-house. This includes things like the class A metal stamping, battery packs and a slew of custom parts and electronics. Most auto makers warehouse pre-stamped body panels and parts. Tesla warehouses raw rolled steel and aluminum. They make the parts as needed. They have one of the most automated factories in the world so it's unlikely that an outside supplier would be able to do it cheaper.

    While they do have a lot of things they get from other vendors, it's a fairly small list in comparison to most transportation manufacturers. In addition they have a relatively small number of products they make (including parts for other auto makers). Because of this they simply don't need SAP. It's a size and scope that you could do in-house. GM or Ford could never scrap their logistics suite and have a replacement in 4 months.

  23. Custom for core, not custom trashcan, word procssr by raymorris · · Score: 2

    "exactly meets the needs of the business" is important for some things, a huge waste of time and money for others. Those "some things" where it matters are generally the core competency of the business - what sets them apart from competitors. Google search needs a database that exactly meets their needs for searching a huge database. MySQL won't meet their need. For 99% of businesses, building a custom database engine would be stupid - MySQL, MS SQL, or Oracle would meet not only their current needs, but also their future needs.

    Future needs can be a huge hidden expense for custom work; you've saddled the company with a requirement to build 2.0, 3,0, etc. on down the road if your business is built on something custom. So you should ask yourself "does the next company down the block have a similar need as we do?" If so, you and the company down the block should probably be sharing the development cost by both buying the same off-the-shelf software. You don't custom design your own trash cans, and most software is the same - yours should be about the same as the other guy uses.

    If off-the-shelf software provides 95% of what you need but you need 5% custom, that's where FOSS is a perfect fit.
    You get 95% of it done, tested and ready to go, for free, and you just develop the 5% that you need special.

  24. sap?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ANYTHING is better than SAP, so this doesnt mean much.

  25. I always LOVE to hear "DIY" stories by Chas · · Score: 1

    They're always good for a laugh.

    We've had a client who, for years, has been threatening to move off to his own little CRM system that one of his in-house techs cooked up. He does this, mostly, because he thinks he's going to frighten us into giving him a free upgrade of his current software.

    We always make sure to mute the phone when he does this, so he doesn't hear us laughing at him.

    His tech's solution is basically a Fox Pro front end on an excel spreadsheet.
    And it doesn't even do a tenth of what the client needs, let alone come close to the functionality of his current package.

    Sure, Musk can actually afford to hire a group of REAL programmers. But, still, they're reinventing the wheel, and there's no guarantee the system's going to grow with the company.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
    1. Re:I always LOVE to hear "DIY" stories by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Sometimes it's worth it when you only want a wheel and not a mile long locomotive. How much of SAP would they really use?

    2. Re:I always LOVE to hear "DIY" stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it doesn't even do a tenth of what the client needs, let alone come close to the functionality of his current package.

      In my experience, companies like yours never truly understand why the client needs but rather what you think they should have. Some companies work more efficiently with not-as-efficient software for social and training reasons even if the alternative is actually more efficient. I'm biased however, I use to be one of those in-house 'tech' who made such a solution who then eventually left the company with the IP-rights, built it up to a commercial standard and stole most of the original provider's marketshare because I had built a better solution because I had first hand knowledge of the requirements of the core stakeholders and didn't treat them like a joke like you seem to.
      A custom system is only as good as the people maintaining it, as long as you understand that and don't under resource it, you'll always have more control over it then one from a service provider which is merely a take-it-or-leave-it situation.

    3. Re:I always LOVE to hear "DIY" stories by Chas · · Score: 1

      In my experience, companies like yours never truly understand why the client needs but rather what you think they should have.

      Not in this case unfortunately. A couple of the things that are crucial to this client:

      Reliable syncing (the in-house thing is a stand-alone VFP 101 project).
      Shared calendar.
      Integrated e-mail functionality.
      They make extensive use of the package's automated processes.
      The ability to build and save groups off of SQL queries and filters.
      The ability to store BLOB data.
      The ability to support extensive organizational charts

      The in-house thing is basically at the level of a glorified spreadsheet right now with a single-table structure. And this thing has supposedly been in development for five years!

      The reason these people are on the package they're on is because we did an extensive business process analysis for them, before we made any suggestions.

      and didn't treat them like a joke like you seem to.

      I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that threatening to move off a comprehensive system, that does exactly what you need and want it to do plus with room to grow, and downgrade to something with fewer capabilities that an Excel spreadsheet, just to get a better price, was anything BUT a joke.

      I *do* care about my clients and their needs. And when I can't provide for them, I tell them so. My company doesn't need to lock in customers. We already have more than we can comfortably handle. And more, a massive chunk of it is ridiculously loyal to us. BECAUSE we don't BS them, and don't take them for granted. But if someone wants to leave and do their own thing? That's their prerogative. Just don't ask us to support it.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    4. Re:I always LOVE to hear "DIY" stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fair enough but keep in mind that are a lot of others who don't maintain those standards and your original post just screams of a situation from one of those others.

    5. Re:I always LOVE to hear "DIY" stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We always make sure to mute the phone when he does this, so he doesn't hear us laughing at him."

      What about taking some time to laff about it and then getting serious and noting down the reason behind the customer's gripes ? Maybe if you fixed those and then some, you'd make your customer happier and more importantly your product better.

    6. Re:I always LOVE to hear "DIY" stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got the impression the gripe was that the customer didn't want to pay for the software.

  26. Oversell? by recharged95 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sure they built it in 4 months...
    But likely spent the last 9 years figuring out why SAP was bad. Hence they knew what they wanted (by now)... Hire some good s/w developers and voila... you'll have a better system from the get-go. That's business systems 101: it's all about domain knowledge. Sure they built it in 4 months, but I see it took them 8.6 years to create it... by understanding why the SAP solution sucked and the experience on what worked and what didn't.

    If they started from scratch with no SAP experience.... well I'm sure we'd see a different story. The same story as Oracle, MS, HP, IBM, and SAP (i.e. their in-house systems suck big time).

    Now some new MBA graduate will disagree: now new systems can be built in 4 months, muck did it... then again...

    1. Re:Oversell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, so you are saying it is obvious after all these years of botched deployments and upgrades and overbudgets, SAP has the experience to easily build software that actually works great in just a few months - but that would probably make them less money so they have that crap serving companies with a lot of cash to burn?

    2. Re:Oversell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's very true. You don't know what you don't want, until you have it. It's the software developer's dilemma. How do you build something for the users need when they don't know what they need until it's built.

      But if you're large enough to consider SAP as an option (9 years ago), then you're large enough to do your own business needs analysis (which you would of had to do with SAP too) and build your own custom solution. Maybe the system you build 9 years ago is as big a piece of crap as SAP. But it's your system and you can change it and make it better, over and over again until it's the best fit for your company. All without bleeding cash hand over fist to SAP to customize it into something that 'still' doesn't quite work the way you want it.

    3. Re:Oversell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SAP is in fact a developer tool to find out the pain points in the organization and maybe to create some new in the process..

    4. Re:Oversell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a former SpaceX employee, where they built the ERP system they're referring to, I can confirm that it was built in 4 months by a small team of devs who were brought in with little to no former knowledge of ERP systems.

      Of course said devs were threatened with a firin' if they didn't get warp drive (the name of the ERP software they developed) working in that amount of time, but they were some smart folks and pulled it off. and yes, it was a bit buggy at first, but it improved crazy fast and was handling almost the entire company's workflow within a few months of implementation. Actually, both companies workflows.

      And if I recall properly Elon wanted to hire some devs to write him a CAD software suite that didn't suck as much as NX too. Way back before I started they were even pushing to go paperless with in model dimensions and totally drop conventional paper drawings (thank god that never stuck).

    5. Re:Oversell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is plausible that the development team itself had no idea what SAP was or how it worked. However, the first step of the software engineering process (almost regardless of which methodology you use) is to collect user requirements. By your logic, the "development" took 13 billion years since before you can develop a SAP replacement you need to develop SAP, which in turn requires culture, sentience, lifeforms and the universe.

      You can keep redefining terms like "development", "project" or anything else, but please avoid using your own definitions of common terms to tell people that they are wrong.

      Also, 9 years minus 4 months is 8.7 years (9 - 8/12), not 8.6.

  27. Less risky for Tesla specifically? by swb · · Score: 1

    I can see the risk aspect to this at a 'normal' company with the typical suit and tie CEO who rose up from sales or marketing. Somehow, though, Tesla probably has some things going for it it that other businesses don't.

    For one, a CEO who has built an Internet software based business in an era where you built it yourself because there was nothing else to base it on. The entire company and product they are producing is unlike anything else out there and a lot of what they produce they have to produce themselves from scratch, so there's a culture of "do it yourself" already in place.

    Given the nature of the product, I would doubt there are many employees at Tesla, especially in the technology side of the business, who are there solely because it is a paycheck and there's free coffee. Most of the employees are probably there at least partly because of some belief in the product itself or the (potentially) environmentally transformative nature of the product, which makes them likely to be more highly motivated to see the company succeed than the typical employee who is motivated more by a sense of career achievement, compensation, etc.

    I would also bet the employees in any technology-oriented capacity at the company are smarter than the average bear. Given Musk's drive and background, the technology hiring standards and internal respect for IT are probably much higher at Tesla, than at a company that makes run of the mill widgets.

    So while I agree that home-brew systems have a better-than-average chance of failure at a typical company because of tech-ignorant management, IT staffs of average ability and motivation, Tesla has a lot of things going for it that make it more likely they will succeed.

    1. Re:Less risky for Tesla specifically? by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      I would doubt there are many employees at Tesla, especially in the technology side of the business, who are there solely because it is a paycheck and there's free coffee.

      *FREE* coffee?!? Shit I need to find a new cube farm ;)

  28. 25 s/w devs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At that rate in the valley, they just paid around 1.25million for that system... 25 devs sounds like a big time nowadays....

    1. Re:25 s/w devs? by Amouth · · Score: 1

      And if you have ever seen SAP licensing costs that is less than yearly maintenance costs alone for a 900 employee company.

      With Tesla employing ~3000 people 1.25m is cheep compared to SAP, really cheap.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
  29. Probably true, I don't know SAP. No good alternati by raymorris · · Score: 1

    That's probably true, from the very little I know about SAP. Is there not a good off-the-shelf or customizable alternative?

  30. Doesn't matter. Become enterprise SW company? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I don't think it matters that their leadership _can_ do it. Do they _want_ to become an enterprise software company?
    If not, it's a distraction from the goal. If they want to be an electric car company, they should focus their energy on electric cars, not email, SAP, staplers sandwiches or anything else they _could_ build.

    Disclaimer - Some have posted that SAP is CRAP and there is no reasonable alternative. I find it hard to believe that there is no off-the-shelf software to fit the need, but if so, that would justify building it, just because they have no reasonable alternative.

    1. Re:Doesn't matter. Become enterprise SW company? by Lokni · · Score: 1

      There are alternatives out there. My company's direct competitor is SAP. We are an off the rack solution that offers inventory control, payroll tracking, inventory control and more. We have fortune 500 companies using our software and are implemented worldwide. BUT... we are industry specific. If you havent worked in our industry or your IT person works with someone in our industry, you would never hear about us.

    2. Re:Doesn't matter. Become enterprise SW company? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does the inventory control track the duplicated items in your inventory? ;-)

  31. Brilliant by Udo+Schmitz · · Score: 2

    This sentence from the summary is just great:

    “When Tesla Motors needed to improve the back-end software that runs its business, CEO Elon Musk decided not to upgrade the company's SAP system.”

    Someone should make a poster from it.

  32. Social ROI by polandr · · Score: 3, Informative

    To me one of the 'hidden' returns on a gamble & investment like Tesla has made is a social one. I can't even imagine the pride the IT team at Tesla feels to go from resetting user passwords to bragging to their friends that they built from scratch an operating ERP system. In a podcast Jay Vijayan mentions that the upfront costs were similar in analysis, but the later savings in cost can be 're-invested' into the people and organization. To me it seems a no-brainer to embark on this investment, since the returned value is something that can't be reasonably purchased. (IMHO) podcast here: http://www.metisstrategy.com/interview/jay-vijayan/ -Ryan

  33. It's simple: by gatfirls · · Score: 1

    It's who's selling the solution. The sales people cater to the execs/management and know the buzzwords that make the all tingly.

    If the suggested solution comes from IT/Bottom up it's usually a lot of details they can't grasp and don't really care about.

    1. Re:It's simple: by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      From what I've experienced the SAP sales teams usually include a hot blonde who the executives won't turn down for a business dinner.

    2. Re:It's simple: by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      hot blonde

      Yes, the parent already mentioned "all tingly".

  34. Keep In Mind... by sycodon · · Score: 1

    ...that if you do something like this, numerous ISO standards and other auditing bodies follow a formal ERP methodology. There are also issues of compliance with GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principals) and most assuredly, the IRS.

    People "run there business like everyone else" for a reason.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Keep In Mind... by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      That makes sense for areas like human resources and accouting, but not for areas that are highly specialized for an industry of company.

    2. Re:Keep In Mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, things like accountability, separation of duties, making sure things addup, risk controls, etc apply to processes irrelevant of what part of the company we are talking about. These things just happen to through from HR, Legal, IT, Accounting, Operations, & Finance into the company.

    3. Re:Keep In Mind... by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      If that were true, one universal software product could be used to run every company in the world.

    4. Re: Keep In Mind... by nwf · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's the point. There is software that can be used to run any company in any field. It's called a compiler, although it does require a good deal of customization.

      --
      I don't know, but it works for me.
    5. Re:Keep In Mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every manufacturing company that must adhere to the GAAP standards, yes.

      In North Korea it's probably like
      1. Collect slaves
      2. Profit!

    6. Re:Keep In Mind... by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      You are confusing high level standards with tactical and strategic business operations and industry specific needs. A company that makes staplers is going to have much different needs and operations than a company that makes nuclear reactors, cars or airplanes.

    7. Re:Keep In Mind... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Ahh...but every company will need to properly account for costs and profits.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    8. Re:Keep In Mind... by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      Sure - that's why we all mentioned human resources and accounting as some of the few generic tasks that SAP is good at.

    9. Re:Keep In Mind... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Leaving aside that only one of them is really different to the other three (hint: look up the definition of a project) do you think you'd implement SAP (or any other ERP) exactly the same in all of those industries?

      It's configurable, and no, that doesn't mean you have to employ 27 million programmers to rewrite everything.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  35. When Tesla Motors needed to buy more tp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CEO Elon Musk decided not to - that's why your car is covered in shit.

  36. Doesn't surprise me in the least by benjfowler · · Score: 2

    Elon Musk is the alpha-dog to rule them all. And not surprisingly, he hires alpha-dogs and superstars in all his businesses. THIS is how they achieved the near-impossible, by engineering and launching their own man-rated launcher and spacecraft all by themselves.

    We know that small teams of highly-motivated and highly-skilled people can achieve great things. So it should really come as little surprise that they can pull writing an in-house SAP replacement in such a ridiculously small amount of time.

    Guess we're seeing just how well the 'only hire A-players' policy works...

  37. Re:No articleFTFY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It isn't a backend system-- it is a tweet.

  38. Re:Custom for core, not custom trashcan, word proc by turbidostato · · Score: 1

    "Those "some things" where it matters are generally the core competency of the business - what sets them apart from competitors."

    I tell you a secret: in this day and age, what sets a company apart from competitors is the way they capture information, how they analice it and what they do with it. It is not manufacturing, it is not marketing, it is not distribution and it is not selling.

    On a side note, Nicholas Carr was utterly wrong.

  39. Here is your answer... by Hangtime · · Score: 1

    "partially because it didn’t need integration of disparate applications."

    I would say that the only way Tesla was able to do this was because they didn't need to integrate disparate applications. Most SAP integrations and installations fail because they have to connect to every other system within a company. Tesla has no legacy so therefore it would be easier to do so. I would say this, there are a few cloud-based SAP solutions available that could have been brought up in the same amount of time or less given what little constraints it appears to have been put on them.

    1. Re:Here is your answer... by m2pc · · Score: 2

      I disagree. For our implementation (see my post above), it was two of us and we managed to connect many disparate applications. As long as you understand what you're interfacing with and sufficient API documentation exists, it's not that difficult. We managed to connect to UPS, FedEx and USPS for shipping label generation/package tracking, Authorize.net for payment processing, DBA Manufacturing (the legacy MRP system we were using) for importing the customers, suppliers, and items, and OpenCart for our web store.

      It took the two of us about 12 months of solid work to accomplish this. I'm sure Telsa's ERP system involves a lot of supply-chain connections (good ERP systems need this capability), yet they were able to pull it off in 4 months.

  40. Bezos was a computer science wiz before books by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I guess you're unfamiliar with Bezos and unfamiliar with how and why Amazon began. Books are not what makes Amazon special. The idea of books came after Bezos designed the system that makes Amazon special.

    Bezos studied engineering and computer science at Princeton, graduating magna cum laude.
    He then went to work doing IT for Wall Street . From beginning to end, he's been about expanding computer technology. He didn't build infrastructure in order to sell books, he used books and other easily shippable products to monetize a computer based distribution system. You may notice they sell a heck of a lot more than books - because books are an readily replaceable accessory to their actual business. That's why they don't write books, they buy them because books are not what makes Amazon special.

    The idea for Amazon came to him while he was traveling a across the country and he heard that the supreme court ruled internet sellers don't have to collect sales tax. He decided to combine that with his skill at building large scale infrastructure and put together a mass market system selling stuff on the internet at a discount. What to sell using the system he designed? It should be valuable enough to ship. You don't sell concrete or soda online, shipping would be a problem. Electronics have high value per pound, but quickly lose value in the warehouse. The post office has a special extra low shipping rate for books, so books were good product to start with. The product was chosen to fit the distribution infrastructure. The infrastructure wasn't built to put his (nonexistent) bookstore online.

    1. Re:Bezos was a computer science wiz before books by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "I guess you're unfamiliar with Bezos and unfamiliar with how and why Amazon began."

      I guess you didn't hear the homungus wooosh above your head because it was hypersonic and the sound still didn't reach you.

  41. Up in flames? by PatPending · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this Telsa product will go up in flames?

    --
    What one fool can do, another can. (Ancient Simian Proverb)
  42. Re:Probably true, I don't know SAP. No good altern by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Actually there's a company UNIT4 that positions themselves as having the best ERP solution for fast changing organisations.
    (disclaimer : i'm a happy customer)

  43. Written in what? by sproketboy · · Score: 1

    Just curious...

  44. Really, WSJ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This type of Wall Street Journal 'article' should not be allowed for posting.

  45. Lead Acid Battery Tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear Mr Musk. Please produce an inexpensive model electric car that get about 45 mile range and with a top speed of around 50mph! I nee a get around town car. That's all. Just something I can go run around in that recharges using an extension cord. Please Please. India already has one called "REVA". The ZAP car also runs on 6 lead acid batteries. Please please. Low cost. Get around town vehicle. That just may save your company sir !