Slashdot Mirror
Property Managers Use DNA To Sniff Out Dog Poop Offenders
Nerval's Lobster writes "News changes during holidays. It gets thinner and lighter and weirder as the hordes of writers and editors who produce the overwhelming flood of news, updates and infotainments go home to annoy friends and family rather than readers and advertisers. Top points in ridiculousness, however, go to the condo- and apartment-complex managers in Braintree, MA, who were inspired to become amateur zoo-geneticists by resident pet owners who not only refused to clean up after their pets, but challenged the apartment managers to prove it was their pets contributing the increasingly hazardous, unpleasant piles of doggie doo on apartment properties. Rather than put up with a neverending supply of potential EcoBot fuel on marring the landscaping, facilities managers took cheek swabs of all the dogs on the property and sent them to A Knoxville, Tenn. that provided DNA profiles under a program with the dignified name 'PooPrints.' Now, for a fee of only $60 per pooch, residential managers can confirm the provider of a pile of PooPrintable material by comparing the DNA in the dog with the DNA in the pile. 'Now you don't really have to worry about dog poop,' said one fan of the practical application of zoological genetic analysis. 'The grass is now ours again, we don't have to worry about it [poop], and that's a good thing.' Restraint is just as important as innovation, of course, so the building managers made a point of telling the AP reporter who wrote the story that they wouldn't extend the effort to identifying which pooch peed on which bush and when. 'That's a little more difficult. We are not going to tackle that.' Finally, in this holiday season, something to be thankful for." The city of Petah Tikva, Israel started a similar identification program in 2008.
You should own a fucking cat instead.
. . . by pooping on the grass yourself. . .
Inconsiderate is what people are... I know dogs can be picky but come on... You bought the thing. You take care of it. Yet you can not control one bit and walk 3 blocks so your dog can take a crap somewhere?
Yesterday while raking my yard I saw a couple who *waited* for at least 10 mins for me to go inside. So they could let their dog piss on my yard eventually they gave up. Thankfully all the dogs in the neighborhood have killed 100x3ft of my grass. I have tried planting more hardy type grasses (so I do not have to water as much). But nothing survives but weeds. Never mind the 3 empty fields nearby. Least most of my neighbors pick the crap up which is about all the credit I can give them.
There are normal and civil ways to handle these kind of problems and certainly ways to do so with out resorting to such lengths.
Not only that but those services are much less expensive than having poop samples sent off to a lab and analyzed.
I have two mastiffs and a guy does my entire acre for 15/week.
Where I live, the HOA can get DNA tests of poop all it wants, the main culprits are non-residents. This is mainly for income through fines, not really enforcement.
It could be worse. One neighborhood in the town I live in is a gated community, and has restrictions on the cars residents can own. They have to be Acuras, Mercedes, BMWs, or another luxury brand, 5 year olders or newer. Anything else gets towed, and a $300 "eyesore" fee charged. The ironic thing is that I was there with a Freightliner van that I slapped Mercedes emblems on [1], and the enforcement crew [2] considered it an acceptable choice of vehicle.
[1]: Two Torx screws on the center van logo. The front grille would take a little bit more time, so I just parked the thing in frontwards when I was using it.
[2]: People who had "Enforcement patrol" badges on their cars stating their job was to force others to obey all speed limits by pulling out in front of people. Was amusing watching them just sit for stretches at a time just so they could pull out on someone.
1) Eat neighbor's dog
2) Poop on grass. DNA of neighbor's dog detected.
3) HOA collects fine from neighbor
4) Profit!
and male dogs
Been reading about this for years.
Dog crap is pretty crappy as fertilizers go (depending on their diet). More often than not, it will harm the grass more than help it.
See http://voices.yahoo.com/common-misconceptions-dog-feces-fertilizing-1285581.html?cat=32
Besides, why the heck do you allow animals if you aren't willing to put up with the results of your decision? Charge a fee for animals and pay somebody to come around and clean up the poop, there are services that do that very thing.
Dog poop on the lawn is a result of dogs and not picking up the poop. If the poop is cleaned any less often than continuously; people will step in, fall in, and roll through (with a wheel chair) dog poop. Owners should pick up dog poop from common spaces.
-Dave
I guess we're really just a misogynist society.
Or is there something different about dog poop that makes it easier to identify this unwanted deposit more than your typical rape kit analyses?
Wow, what a wonderful way to improve the already adversarial relationship between property managers and tenants. No thanks, I'll live elsewhere. If it were my building, I'd quietly have maintenance clean up any poop they found, and verbally remind tenants if they catch them in the act.
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
You're right about how management should simply charge a fee to take care of the poo, spot on. And I wonder why they don't care about the urine, since it burns (kills) the grass. Also, dog poo isn't a good fertilizer at all.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
Compared to what?
Besides, why the heck do you allow animals if you aren't willing to put up with the results of your decision?
The owners are expected not to allow dog poop to remain where it's dropped. They're the ones failing in their responsbility. Unless the managers are DNA matching dogs to poop for their own amusement (we've all done it), I assume they're doing so in order to take action against the owners and force them to live up to their responsbilities as pet owners. That's hardly "putting up with it."
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
This doesn't strike me as ridiculous at all. It would only be ridiculous if the apartment failed to build the cost of the DNA analysis service into the fines it assigns to offending dog owners.
I wonder how much it would cost to preemptively create a DNA database of all the dogs so you have a ready-to-go database for matching poop when its found. Then they wouldn't have to rely on humans "reporting" the offenders. Just get the poop, have it analyzed, and fine the owner.
I agree it's ridiculous to have to resort to doggy DNA but it's the only thing that finally forced dog owners in my building in Boston to stop letting their pets poop right in front of the building's door. Nobody wants to navigate a minefield of dog poop to get in or out of their home and it's incredibly frustrating and irritating that your fellow residents don't care enough to clean up after their dog.
What's really ridiculous is that Doggy DNA is necessary.
I've been saying this for years. When they find the person, they need to just leave that poop on the owner's doorstep. No further penalty is required.
http://www.newsdaily.com/article/f9886d5ca8858bb2ebb18e47106a62f2/dog-doo-scofflaws-get-bagged-through-dna-testing
Anyway,its nice to have the convenience of letting my dog poop in my own yard.
And apparently you also think it's OK to let your dog poop on a communal yard. Your neighbors probably disagree.
The lawn at my apartment is for all the residents to enjoy, not just the dog owners.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
It's not the management company that's motivating this, it's the non-pet-owning tenants not wanting to be confrontational about it and demanding that the management "do something".
I doubt they will actually do this for enforcement.. It's an attention grabber instead. Here's why:
1) $60 to do the test is really expensive. A determined malefactor could financially break the system by just "seeding" the grounds with many targets. Targets composed of material from multiple sources.
2) I doubt they're using a collection system with legally enforceable traceability. Heck, law enforcement doesn't always do this right. Joe or Jane Doe groundskeeper sure isn't going to worry about it.
3) I doubt the DNA testing company is willing to certify their test results to the needed level. I have friends who have sent their dog's DNA in multiple times for breed identification and come back with different results (same saliva, same lab, etc.).
The first time an attorney with some spare time on his hands gets a "dog poop ticket", he or she will have a field day. So, Acme DNA labs, can we see your certified accuracy testing? Did you run a blank? How do you calibrate your equipment. The lab will have wisely put in their contract that they won't respond to this, so it's back to the management company and a he said/he said argument.
No management company wants to get in the middle of a tenant/tenant dispute, and they will quickly disengage and let the tenants fight it out among themselves.
Its good for the grass anyway, natural fertilizer.
No, it isn't. The problem for the grass is the urine. It kills grass and, since dogs like to piss on each other's piss, it leaves whole patches of dead dirt.
My end-unit townhouse was where the whole neighborhood let their dogs defecate. We paid for a garbage can and little bags so the pet owners wouldn't even risk touching any, yet they still left the feces. Unless someone was watching, of course. My Saturday ritual was shoveling everybody's dog shit into a trash can so the stink wouldn't permeate my home. I'd even leave the shovel out in hopes that some considerate dog owner would help out, but no. I'd just find the shovel, handle down, in the can the next day.
I finally sold the house and moved away because of dogs. Well, not because of the dogs. Because of their rude, inconsiderate owners.
:wq
This American Life covered it in 2010: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/420/neighborhood-watch
Move along, no sig to see here.
It's not the management company that's motivating this, it's the non-pet-owning tenants not wanting to be confrontational about it and demanding that the management "do something".
I doubt they will actually do this for enforcement.. It's an attention grabber instead. Here's why:
1) $60 to do the test is really expensive. A determined malefactor could financially break the system by just "seeding" the grounds with many targets. Targets composed of material from multiple sources. 2) I doubt they're using a collection system with legally enforceable traceability. Heck, law enforcement doesn't always do this right. Joe or Jane Doe groundskeeper sure isn't going to worry about it. 3) I doubt the DNA testing company is willing to certify their test results to the needed level. I have friends who have sent their dog's DNA in multiple times for breed identification and come back with different results (same saliva, same lab, etc.).
The first time an attorney with some spare time on his hands gets a "dog poop ticket", he or she will have a field day. So, Acme DNA labs, can we see your certified accuracy testing? Did you run a blank? How do you calibrate your equipment. The lab will have wisely put in their contract that they won't respond to this, so it's back to the management company and a he said/he said argument.
No management company wants to get in the middle of a tenant/tenant dispute, and they will quickly disengage and let the tenants fight it out among themselves.
Make it part of the leasing contract. If the dog is yours, you pay the test costs plus the fine.This isn't a criminal case, it's civil at best; and the standard is preponderance of evidence, not reasonable doubt. The real issue is how do you identify the actual dog? It's not like you will have a sample of each dog on file, nor will it necessarily identify a breed let alone an actual individual pet. Although going to a dog park and collecting "samples" and seeding them has a lot of humor potential. How about sample storm a zoo as well?
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
I couldn't help thinking about a break-in/home invasion I had about 7 years ago. Seems the perps waited in a patch that had some tall weeds at that time, in the back of my yard, until my lights went out (around midnight) plus 2 hours. I puzzled that together because the next morning while I was waiting for the detective, I did a walkabout and found the cigarette butts, plus some items that where taken from my house and subsequently discarded.
When the detective came, he dusted for some fingerprints (didn't get anything useful). On pointing out the cigarette butts, he stated that DNA samples where only taken in serious crimes like murder. Up to this day I have not heard a word back from the police and the roughly $150 worth of items (converted from local currency) have been kissed goodbye.
Well to be fair, I guess DNA tests have become cheaper in the last few years. I doubt that police efficiency or available man hours have increased though...
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
In your case I can see why it matters. You did plan ahead but didn't have the ability to force the issue. However vote me troll or not, I still think my suggestion will work in many cases. And No, I'm not pro poop-on-your-lawn. Mostly because its rude. Perhaps there should be a caveat that requires those owners to sign a contract that states they must pick up the poop.
FTA:
"Dog owners paid a one-time fee of $59.95 for the initial DNA testing for the database. Subsequent lab tests of dog droppings that end up identifying the offending animal result in a $50 testing fee plus a $100 fine."
This rates as one of the worst leads into a story I've seen on here. Someone is trying way too hard.
Time for tennants to start demanding lower rent, if they have so much profit they can screw around doing DNA testing on poop, they can hire someone part time to pick up the poop.
Some of these property managers are as bad as the old farts that police HOA's.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
A person who walks their dog really slow, most of the time with a limp. They look around real slow and bug eyed when the dog stops to take a dump hoping no one notices them and they can slowly slither away. Seriously do dog owners only take their dogs on walks to let them poop??? I thought dogs were supposed to get a lot of exercise.
Too bad the offending dog is from another building.
Or go to the local zoo and pick up some wolf/tiger/lion poo..
"If anyone needs me, I'm in the angry dome."
How about banning Anonymous Cowards?
Sig?
Why not just put a security camera on the condo poop spaces?
It might help with crime too.
It's only bitches' urine that burns grass. No I don't know why.
I live close to the city of Vienna, Austria. It is famous in Europe for its campaign a Sackerl für mein Gackerl, literally "a baggie for my poopies". The accompanying media campaign initially played upon civic sense, and still exclusively plays upon civic sense: have a dog, walk it, wait for it to poo, scoop up poo with one of the free plastic bags provided everywhere in and around Vienna's green zones (parks etc. ). Works splendidly. Costs almost nothing. Poop problem solved.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
There's always a fresh pile in my yard off to the side where she must think it would be less visible to let her dog go. I saw her once, but I was just getting up and didn't have a chance to run down and yell at her. But, the poop is always there. I'd wait for her, but she only walks her dog on my yard once or twice a week. If I had a sprinkler system, I'd rig it to go off the moment she set foot there. Or, maybe beam her dog with something for shock like a rotten egg.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Next time you see this, ask your 'visitors' if they would like a bag so that they can clean up after their pet. I'm assuming that if you have a yard, that you live in a neighborhood, so you probably have a small number of repeat offenders. If you put the culprits on the spot a couple times, they will probably stop letting their pets use your yard.
i'd like restaurants to start using this in finding out if it was the employee's hair or a customers scamming a free meal. one day it will be ultra cheap to do so.
I can't believe I just read this post..
Don't dogs have to be on leads when outside in an apartment complex? I'd think putting up cams for areas hardest hit by 'Fido' the elephant pooper would be easier and cheaper.
Agrisea Tsunami - Epyc Servers... https://agrisea.net/products
I think it's a brilliant way to manage this. I've had so many friends talk about having to deal with dog poop in the halls and stairwells of their condos. If Building management is being non-confrontational about it then I don't really see it as a problem. It quickly identifies the issue and applies the charge where it's due.
From TFA:
Polite reminders, letters and notices previously failed to persuade errant pet owners to observe condo rules requiring them to clean up after their animals, Kansky said. There were problems even after residents reported seeing others failing to pick up their dog's messes.
"We would call or send a letter and that dog owner would say: 'Prove it,'" Kansky said.
Interpretation: Without proof, some pet owners felt entitled to do as they pleased.
Then:
DNA monitoring has yielded immediate and dramatic results in the condominium community of Devon Wood, where maintenance staff previously reported seeing, stepping onto or driving over several piles of droppings each week on its 350-acre property.
Interpretation: WITH proof, (almost ALL) pet owners now clean up as per the condo rules.
I see this as a success. People without pets don't step in poo in their own hallways. Abiding pet-owners don't get blamed and / or berated. Problem pet-owners bear the cost of their choices.
That's just a stupid rule, as it would ban for example a mint condition Jaguar E-type which looks far nicer than any recent BMW or Mercedes. Even Enzo Ferrari called it "The most beautiful car ever made".
Yes it is a very stupid rule. Completely agree on that point. A classic car in good condition like the E-Type should fit in anywhere.
That said, personally I think the Jaguar E-Type is not an especially attractive vehicle and I don't feel its looks have aged particularly well. One of my neighbors had one (a hardtop) a few years back and I could never warm up to the styling. (personally I've never liked Jaguar's styling in general) In fact I feel the exact opposite from you regarding your comparison with recent BMW's and Mercedes - I find those to be much better looking. Just my personal taste of course and I have no problem with those who feel differently. For my money the best looking street-legal vehicle ever is the Ford GT - it has the most timeless look I've ever seen on a vehicle.
DNA? really? Just hire someone, and have them watch, and talk to the offenders. This helps keep someone employed, and nothing like a man in an uniform to keep people in line.
No no no, you're aiming too low! There's clearly now a market for microbeads containing oligomers which will foil the PCR that you can feed these dogs to make their poop undetectable.
I don't know anything about raising venture capital, but I'm going to do a little more research and try to get on "shark tank" pitching that.
Try reducing the size of the rock on that tall-weed-free area your dog had to use. See what is the smallest sized rock he can go on. Then set up a teeter-totter and see how he makes out.
My apartment building started having a dog-shit problem (although my favorite, was the person who would pick up and bag their animal's shit, but would proceed to drop the baggie on the ground outside the entrance to the apartment...I think that is actually *worse* than just leaving it out in the grass). Management started posting notices that if the problem continued, they would just start saying "no dogs in the building". They pointed out that they would not be cancelling leases...which means that either you have to say goodbye to Fluffy, or you are on the hook for $$$$ in order to break your lease and find a new home on short notice. Kind of a hard-ass approach, but I haven't stepped in dog-shit since.
Bottles.
This thread has had some of the worst moderations I've ever seen on slashdot (outside of political threads). This post getting a +5, however, takes things to a whole new level. Try re-reading it, people. +5?! Are mods on crack today?
The article even said that the dog owner said "prove it." I think you've got the psychopaths mixed up in this case...
or maybe you think it's totally ok for me to leave my apartment and see a huge pile of dogshit INSIDE the building and that I should have to clean it up because "dog owners" can't be responsible.
Jeremy, is that you?
I come here for the love
How is collecting DNA from dog poop any less invasive than the NSA collecting metadata from cell phone usage. Both of them are used to track the owners and invade privacy. This should be an illegal practice. I hate dog poop not being cleaned up as much as anyone, but this just seems incredibly wrong.
A centralized service will have to find the poop. Dog owners are already present at the poop location.
A centralized service will have a much longer response time. Dog owners are already present at the time of pooping.
Hiring someone to pick it up once a week is certainly cheaper, but for an apartment complex that means the yard is full of poop 6 1/2 days out of seven.
Go look up the mechanics of Cat sex, specifically the shape of the cat penis.
Fucking thing looks like a horrorclub from Wes Kraven's nightmare about Stanley Kubrick.
Make it part of the leasing contract. If the dog is yours, you pay the test costs plus the fine.
Make the fine include that the person clean up all the poop on the property daily for a month. Any poop left out for > 1 day = 50% of the tenant's rent in fines.
How do you tell if the poop is older than one day? Every day, walk the property and spray paint any poops you find with orange paint. The next day, if you find any orange poops, that's a fine.
Oh, forget it. Too much work. Here:
1) first offense = pay $75 fine
2) second offense = pay $150 fine
3) third offense = pay $300 fine
4) fourth offense = eviction
Or feed your neighbors' dog to your dog and then complain the test is not accurate when they get back conflicting results.
I am very happy to share MY HEALING TESTIMONY WITH any one visiting this site. Because the sickness that I think is impossible to cure was possible when I encountered a great spell caster from Indian by an email link I got from my friend in Africa who told me of a great magic and spell caster called DR. ASHRA i got healed from my diseases within 4 day of contacting him and following his instructions strictly as he said them. I have been to so many hospitals without getting any medical solution to my sickness. , I know so many people have same problem which they are finding difficult to solve. That is why I am referring any one reading this testimony to quickly contact this man great spiritual Doctor. His email is ashraspellhome@yahoo.com he is indeed a great spiritual Doctor, i am indebted to you papa i will share this to the whole world.
Now there's an idea... Shark poop.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/420/neighborhood-watch