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New Oculus Rift Prototype Features Head Tracking, Reduced Motion Blur, HD AMOLED

crabel writes "The Oculus rift prototype Crystal Cove shown at CES uses a camera to track over two dozen infrared dots placed all over the headset. With the new tracking system, you can lean and crouch because the system knows where your head is in 3D space, which can also help reduce motion sickness by accurately reflecting motions that previously weren't detected. On top of that, the new 'low persistence' display practically removes motion blur." The new low-persistence AMOLEDs also achieve 1920x1080 across the field of vision. Reports are that immersion was greatly enhanced with head tracking.

156 comments

  1. I didn't have much faith in this project.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..until John Carmack left id software to work on it.

    1. Re:I didn't have much faith in this project.. by binarylarry · · Score: 1

      Have you ever tried it? I've been working with the devkit and that's fantastic (until the nose bleeds start at 30 minutes).

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
  2. Cool, so can I use it yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I feel like they've been talking about this for 2 years now and I've heard about 3-4 different versions of this thing which are "coming soon (tm)."

    Just stop hyping the damn thing if you're not going to release it relatively soon. By the time this thing comes out for real, everyone will be tired of hearing about it already, like some awful, over-pushed summer blockbuster movie.

    1. Re:Cool, so can I use it yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oculus Rift Forever

    2. Re:Cool, so can I use it yet? by Rhaban · · Score: 2

      https://www.oculusvr.com/order/

      It’s not the definitive product, but you can try it if you want.

    3. Re:Cool, so can I use it yet? by ledow · · Score: 1

      Until I personally can buy it, for money, today, with the option of next day delivery, it doesn't exist.

      Pre-orders, etc. do not count under this definition, you'll notice.

      Saved me from a lot of junk that never actually arrived (everything from battery technologies, the "never-ending-development" games, to all kinds of fancy hardware and consoles).

      Literally, ignore it until you can click "Buy It Now" somewhere.

    4. Re:Cool, so can I use it yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will not be tired. I had a Dev-Kit and i want to stay informed. Every time they talked about the Rift, they have a new Version with new Features. If you don't want to read about the next big thing, than shut the fuck up and don't read anything about it. We others sell our soul to our new VR-Overlords.

    5. Re:Cool, so can I use it yet? by Threni · · Score: 1

      Personally, next day is too vaporous for me - it's same day, or it's as if it didn't exist.

      And I want one in green.

    6. Re:Cool, so can I use it yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plug your info in right here (probably not a goatse): https://www.oculusvr.com/order/

    7. Re:Cool, so can I use it yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Until I personally can buy it, for money, today, with the option of next day delivery, it doesn't exist.

      Pre-orders, etc. do not count under this definition, you'll notice.

      Saved me from a lot of junk that never actually arrived (everything from battery technologies, the "never-ending-development" games, to all kinds of fancy hardware and consoles).

      Literally, ignore it until you can click "Buy It Now" somewhere.

      Sounds like you should stop visiting Slashdot and check out Deal Extreme or Thinkgeek or some other page for things that have passed beyond the development stage.
      Seriously. Any Slashdot article that might interest you is going to be filled with comments in the style of "How is this news?".

    8. Re:Cool, so can I use it yet? by compro01 · · Score: 1

      No next day delivery available, but it does ship in 3-5 days.

      Though it's not the new prototype design this story is about.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    9. Re:Cool, so can I use it yet? by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Literally, ignore it until you can click "Buy It Now" somewhere.

      Why are you here? Just sit over at walmart.com clicking reload.

    10. Re:Cool, so can I use it yet? by aiadot · · Score: 1

      They better not lose track of time. Honestly, after seeing the new prototype yesterday I'm stating to think the final product won't be available until 2015. If sony announces and releases a true VR headset for the PS4 this year(not the new HMZ whatever), they'll lose their biggest advantage: being the first to the market. And it's not only sony, valve is reportedly working on a vr headset of their own and there are also castAR, glyph and infinityEye as minor competitors as well.

      On a side note why did they even bother showing a prototype at CES anyway? It's not like they need to attract funding and investors anymore. And it's hard to imagine that the CES crowd doesn't know about the rift anyway. At this R&D stage, secrecy is one of the keys for success.

    11. Re:Cool, so can I use it yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not hyping it; it's in development.

  3. Long term effect by BennyB2k4 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Thinking way out there... but if the Rift catches on, will significantly more brains be trained to cope with motion sickness? Will we be better equipped for space travel? I wonder if it will reduce motion sickness medication sales.

    1. Re:Long term effect by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      No. Long-term effect is that productivity plummets around the world as there's a collective "shut up and take my money" (from myself included). I want, yesterday!!!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:Long term effect by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Think about the people you know who can't read in the car. Reading in the car doesn't make them handle it better next time, they just vomit twice.

    3. Re:Long term effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Based on personal experience and experimentation on friends it seems that regular travel based motion sickness and "vr sickness" isn't entirely related. Friends who get regular motion sickness all the time did fine in my Rift and some of us who have never had motion sickness in our lives got VR sick. It wasn't a complete reversal though as some from both camps overlapped. Based on what I've seen regarding it we have to just entirely forget any connection between motion sickness and being uncomfortable during VR. It's probably an entirely different part of the brain/inner ear that is affected by the experience.

      Looking forward to trying it with proper positional tracking though as I think that was what triggered it the most for some of my friends. That and badly coded demos (not mine).

    4. Re:Long term effect by Thanshin · · Score: 2

      Not in my personal experience, while I admit never having asked others.

      When I was a kid I couldn't read in a car. After some decades I learned how to avoid the sickness (for me, it has to do with keeping a fraction of my focus on the movement of the car).

      I effectively learned how to... "focus only 80% on the text", to be able to read in a car.

    5. Re:Long term effect by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2

      Think about the people you know who can't read in the car. Reading in the car doesn't make them handle it better next time, they just vomit twice.

      That's a lot like saying that because you can't do a pull-up you'll never be able to do a pull-up. It presumes that a process of adaption through incremental improvements is impossible.

      It isn't like reading in the car makes a person vomit immediately, perhaps if they just read for one minute more each day they would get to a point where it wouldn't make them sick. Or maybe it is a matter of the speed of the car, where if they were able to increase speed 1mph each day they would acclimate.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    6. Re:Long term effect by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      Or perhaps it's like color-blindness, where no amount of "training" will let you reliably distinguish red and green if you weren't born with the appropriate retinal architecture.

      Or like holding your breath, where you can improve to a degree with training, but if you try to push beyond a certain limit, you're just giving yourself irreversible brain damage.

      I've always assumed that VR sickness is a handicap I'll just have to deal with. I suppose it's possible that I could overcome it with training, but training that repeatedly takes me up to or over the brink of nausea seems really, really unappealing.

    7. Re:Long term effect by cmonkey_1973 · · Score: 1

      Or, motion sickness becomes darwinianly (it's a word. Now. Shut up.) more prevalent as those who can't plug into the Rift and have sex with Virtual Jennifer Lawrence are the only ones left breeding...

    8. Re:Long term effect by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      There are genetic, environmental, genetic, congenital, cultural, and mental factors with different levels of relevance for every single human characteristic. Trying to reduce even the most genetic(like colorblindness) to just one factor is going to get some false positives and false negatives.

    9. Re:Long term effect by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      oops, that second genetic was supposed to be "epigenetic"

    10. Re:Long term effect by RivenAleem · · Score: 2

      I don't know about that. While I do realise this is an anecdote, and I can't rule out physiological changes, I do recall suffering a lot from motion sickness as a child (travelling in the back seat and messing with my brothers limited my view of the outside of the vehicle, causing the motion sickness) but after a lifetime of playing games, reading books (with breaks whenever I felt sickness coming on) I've found that the length of time i can go before any motion sickness kicks in gets longer and longer. I can easily now watch a full movie hunkered down in the back seat without feeling sick.

      I can't say whether it's a natural thing for you to be dulled to this as you get older, or whether I've trained myself not to get motion sick, but I feel like it is something you can get used to.

      Hell, we've all heard about people "getting their sea legs" when their body just gives up trying to coordinate what it sees to what the inner ear tells it and after time you stop feeling sea sick. I have not tried the Rift (or any VR headset) but I hope that when I do I should be able to use it fine. I think I'd make a good test case, as someone who is prone to motion sickness, but who has 'overcome' it to see if the VR headset will require retraining or not.

    11. Re:Long term effect by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      Sure. But there isn't a single human genotype, phenotype, or culture that will let its members thrive at zero partial pressure of oxygen. No matter who you are, you can't hold your breath indefinitely. (At least not without external support.)

      Now, I'm pretty sure that susceptibility to VR sickness isn't as predetermined and immutable as oxygen metabolism, or even color-vision defects. I have no idea where it falls on the spectrum, but I'm skeptical of anyone who says "you just need to practice and get over it."

      I think that means we agree...?

    12. Re:Long term effect by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we agree, and I just like to get that point out any time genetic determinism comes up, because that path leads down a lot of evil roads. That's all.

    13. Re:Long term effect by medv4380 · · Score: 1

      There is no training to "overcome" motion sickness. The arrogance, and lack of understanding of the problem is going to make the vomit helmets so much fun to watch. There is a genetic predisposition to get past motion sickness which is why British tend to handle it better, and Asians tend not to. Ballerinas technically "adapt" to the spin that normally causes motion sickness, but it's just a trick. They learn to lock their eyes on a distant object though a portion of the spin. You screw up the trick and you get a dizzy ballerina. Which is why you always see a Ballerina keep they head locked in one position and quickly whip it around. The same trick is for sailors. Just look at the horizon for a bit and the brain will regain it's balance. Not possible on a Sub though underway, and it's not possible if your not able to see the real horizon like with the Oculus Rift. You can take your dramamine, but personally I don't like being drowsy when I play games. You can get lucky and be British and not have a sever case of motion sickness. Or you can avoid things that make you sick like the rest of us.

    14. Re:Long term effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are related you're just unaware that there are 3 types of motion sickness.

    15. Re:Long term effect by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      I couldn't read in the car for years, I'd just get a big headache and feel sick. Then I started having to take the bus to university, 30 minutes both ways, for 3-5 days a week. It took me a few months but I adapted and now I can read anywhere just fine. So yes, you can most certainly adapt.

    16. Re:Long term effect by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is no training to "overcome" motion sickness.

      NASA disagrees.

      "Previous studies have shown the training can enhance tolerance of motion sickness in 80 percent of the participants within six hours of training, notes NASA in a summary of the Navy study."

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    17. Re:Long term effect by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      I think the reality is that we'll fall into three groups. Those with no VR sickness, those who can practice and get over it, and those who will always have VR sickness unless the tracking latency gets down to a few milliseconds.

    18. Re:Long term effect by medv4380 · · Score: 0
      Show me actual experimental results. Your link actually states -

      The experiments didn't get too far, in part because the training required making astronauts sick enough on rotating chair tests so they could learn to master their body's responses.

      When your only successes are people who's careers depend on being able to "handle" the situation your going to get slightly different results. I can certainly force vomit back down my own throat if I had to. It doesn't mean I've overcome it. Just that I'm tolerating the discomfort.

    19. Re:Long term effect by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Show me actual experimental results. Your link actually states -

      There are two sets there. The NASA experiments which are in process and the Navy experiments that inspired NASA to start trying. I quoted NASA talking about the navy experiments.

      I can certainly force vomit back down my own throat if I had to.

      Have you ever actually had motion sickness? It is more than just puking, it is being unable to function.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    20. Re:Long term effect by medv4380 · · Score: 1
      It's the Navy that's doing the current experiment, and NASA that didn't get very far. Your article doesn't even cover any positive results worth reporting. They expected 15 to 20 percent success rate, but do you notice the lack of a follow up report? That was back in July of 2012. How much was actually successful. How many careers did they actually salvage? Why if this was all so successful have them moved onto an experimental Jell and Mist? I know why they keep trying because the Navy and NASA have jobs the put people in situations that cause Motion Sickness, but the rift is an optional leisure activity. It's not worth the drugs needed to suppress the symptoms, and there are too few people who have zero side effects.

      Most people have experienced motion sickness. You are mistaking the most sever cases as the only occurrences. Most people like myself stop doing the activity when it sets in. It only takes a few minutes once you stop the car, turn off the TV, or just look at the horizon.

    21. Re:Long term effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, we agree, and I just like to get that point out any time genetic determinism comes up, because that path leads down a lot of evil roads. That's all.

      You have earned the dubious distinction of crypto-Godwin'ing a fucking consumer electronics discussion.

      May god have mercy on your soul.

  4. Can't wait by mvar · · Score: 1

    I really hope this doesn't turn out to be what the 3D trend has become for movies. Contrary to other past attempts for VR headsets, now there's both the hardware and the knowledge available to build something revolutionary that actually *works*. Plus JC is on-board so expectations are very high.

    1. Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3D died on the vine, as this will too. Most people who invested in TV sets regret their purchase and for movies it's just a gimmick for them to charge more, much like cable TV and satellite companies used to add a 'HD surcharge' to your bill and it never went away. Now everything is HD, and we're still paying that damned surcharge.

    2. Re:Can't wait by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      Plus JC is on-board

      I thought Jesus was my co-pilot. Two-timing bitch...

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    3. Re:Can't wait by RivenAleem · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've watched 10+ movies in the cinema in 3D, including Avatar, The Hobbit, Star Trek Into Darkness and Gravity in IMAX and a range of others in regular 3D. As many other people will tell you Gravity and Avatar are a different class of 3D movie to everything else. As for the rest, I can easily tell they used 3D as a gimmick. You got the odd spear/bee/shrapnel flying out at you from the screen to remind you that the movie was 3D, because frankly for all else, you can easily forget it/not notice it.

      However, I have also played computer games in 3D. The difference between a game and a movie is that the movie chooses specific things to show you in 3D. In a game, they simply render EVERYTHING from 2 viewpoints and transmit that to each eye. I played Crysis 2 on the XBOX360 and was blown away by how it (I really dread to say) added a new dimension to the game. The HUD was rendered to be right up in your face and everything was at not just varying, but the RIGHT depth behind it. Far away monsters were far away, close up were close up and everything in between had it's own natural place. If you had water splash it felt real. It didn't feel like your vision had simply been blurred, it felt like something had actually blocked you, it was there, real.

      I also have an account from a guild mate who played WoW in 3D and wonders how he ever managed to play it flat before, all the players now seemed like they were actually standing in places in relation to eachother, and he wonders what would happen if WoW had player collision seen in other games, because when viewed in 3D it looked so horrendously wrong for one player to be standing in the sprite of another, shattering the complex illusion of realness by the 3D effect.

      There is so much other than simple games that the Rift could be used for. I paraphrase Palmer Luckey when I say "The reason [Palmer] had chosen to make the rift the way I have, is to make a device that doesn't strive for perfection in one area, and falls down in others. I wanted to make something that was good enough in as many areas as possible, and be affordable, so that we can get it out to people. It is not until people have it, and start using it, that we'll know what it can be used for". He may have mentioned the Kinect as an example of something made for one use, being put to many unforeseen other uses.

      You could use a HD version of google streetview to record famous places and locations. Then people could explore them without having to make the trip there. You could use them for 3D conference calls (imagine using a future version of FaceRig to make the Rift Headset disappear). The problem is that there's not enough of these out there for inventors to invent with just now.

      What people are thinking this could be used for is only the tip of the iceberg. The reality might turn out to be so much more than first though.

    4. Re:Can't wait by prelelat · · Score: 1

      That seems a little cynical don't you think? More and more movies are coming out that have a 3D showing if you look I would guess you would notice it trending up for blockbusters and kid movies. I will give you that it doesn't work well at home because passive TVs have been until recently, rare. Passive 3D tv and projectors are also quite expensive right now but watch and I bet you will see a slow trend towards more people buying them as the technology becomes more reasonably priced.

      Saying the Oculus is a passing fad is bordering on being a troll, are you a troll? It's more than 3D it makes using your computer an immersed environment. It's like saying TV screens for radio are a silly idea, it brings something that people have been craving for decades. To be right in the action. Think of how much you get into a game and think how much more enjoyable it would be if you could look around, see enemies and depth. Adjust your shots based on distance. Go explore places and feel like you are seeing it as though you are there. Explore 3D models of cars, planes and so on. If they can finish working out the kinks(this article suggests they have made a major leep in doing so) I would snap one up in a heartbeat.

    5. Re:Can't wait by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      3d is what it always had been. Height, width, and depth. In movies people complain that you can't refocus, and that means it it not 3d. Well, you also can't look at anything not in frame either, even if it just was in frame- you ser and focus on what the director wanted.
      Such people generally say it has to be a hologram to qualify for the 3d label.
      But what you pointed out is we will have a new intermediate level. Better than 3d, but no eye tracking for refocus. Immersive 3d. Maybe eye tracking for reasons other than focus.
      And yet another intermediate, immersive with refocus. It will work for just the user.
      And finally, we might get to holograms. My point is we are going to need to agree on terms so we can talk intelligently without constant clarification.

    6. Re:Can't wait by Andrio · · Score: 1

      My favorite use of the Rift, and what really showed me the gameplay applications the VR gives, is the game "Lunar Flight"

      You're inside the cockpit of a lunar lander. What really makes it cool, is that you have to look around at your controls. If you want to turn the lander on, for example, you have to turn all the way to your right where the power button is to be able to activate it. If you want to access your map, you have to turn to the left where the monitor is. Looking around at your different monitors and tools makes it feel like a real simulator.

      --
      The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
    7. Re:Can't wait by prelelat · · Score: 1

      Maybe a better description would be stereoscopic video? It would be more accurate than 3D for sure.

    8. Re:Can't wait by Algae_94 · · Score: 1

      However, I have also played computer games in 3D. The difference between a game and a movie is that the movie chooses specific things to show you in 3D. In a game, they simply render EVERYTHING from 2 viewpoints and transmit that to each eye.

      This is how Hollywood is doing 3D Movies in postproduction. If it was shot with a 3D camera (one with two viewpoints), everything would be in 3D.

      I think the bigger issue is that in a 3D movie the depth of field is not always infinite. There are many shots where the person talking is in focus while things in the foreground and background are blurry. Even if you try to focus on the background, which appears to be a different focal plane, the background will remain blurry and it breaks the illusion.

    9. Re:Can't wait by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      Yes, that too is something that doesn't happen in a computer game, and something that only a very brave person might try in a movie. Movie makers use focus as a way of keeping your attention on what they want you to watch. Perhaps there is a limitation on using a camera to record movies. Perhaps they could make an animated movie (Pixar or similar) where everything is always in focus, and you chose yourself where to look.

    10. Re:Can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I laugh a little inside every time I hear someone say this will never catch on / will always be niche etc. This will change gaming completely.

      This is completely different to the previous tech. Not because the implementation of the headset is better or more advanced fundamentally - It's mostly the same... but because all of the supporting technology required for immersive and affordable living room / office VR is falling into place around the same time.

  5. Shut up and take my money by xtal · · Score: 1

    I've wanted one of these since I played around with an early unit from VIO, I think, in 1996.

    Please, pretty please, ship this. Stat.

    --
    ..don't panic
    1. Re:Shut up and take my money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are shipping the Dev Kits RIGHT NOW. Really, you can buy one RIGHT NOW. Now it will not magically appear on your head the moment you press the Order button so I'm sure it does not exist for some people.
      And It will not be the final version, you are buying a dev kit. But $300 and the ability to get it in a few weeks. What the fuck are you waiting for?

    2. Re:Shut up and take my money by xtal · · Score: 1

      I wear glasses... Not an option for me, unfortunately. The lenses they provide are pretty kludgey.

      I will get LASIK if required for the commercial version.. they need to ship it, stat.

      --
      ..don't panic
    3. Re:Shut up and take my money by AJH16 · · Score: 1

      Agreed, I will certainly buy one if the price is at all affordable. I've been waiting for a good, motion tracking headset since the old iGlasses display that came out and worked with MechWarrior 2 in DOS. Resolution has been my main stopper since then, but this has not only the resolution, but a giant leap forward in tracking.

      --
      AJ Henderson
    4. Re:Shut up and take my money by timeOday · · Score: 1

      You should get lasik anyways. I did a couple years ago, and it was some of the best money I've ever spent.

    5. Re:Shut up and take my money by prelelat · · Score: 1

      I would buy one right now but it always seems like the retail version is just around the corner. i would rather wait and get a model with tracking and a better screen. I can hardly stop myself from getting the dev model, but I know I won't be able to justify getting the retail one when it comes out then.

    6. Re:Shut up and take my money by xtal · · Score: 2

      I don't care what the retail one costs.. it's not just the HMD; you can find very high end HMD units and they're awesome - it's the integration into all the games that makes this irresistible.

      --
      ..don't panic
    7. Re:Shut up and take my money by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      I use mine with glasses (since it's too blurry without them). My normal ones don't fit in the Rift, but my previous pair (with their slightly different prescription) does. It's a very uncomfortable experience that becomes physically painful after a while. The lenses of the glasses press against the lenses of the Rift even with the Rift cranked all the way out, which means the glasses are being pushed against your face (bridge of your nose most specifically) with a great deal of force. Ouch.

      All that said, my experiences with the Rift have still amazed and delighted, but I think it'll bomb if they don't improve the situation for people with myopia. I don't see any changes to Crystal Lake as compared to DK1 that would make any improvement in that regard.

      If prescription Rift lenses are what it takes, fine. But if the choice is between physical pain or super blurry vision, it'll remain a gimmick.

    8. Re:Shut up and take my money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do the VR glasses affect myopic people? The display is close enough, so should focussing be a problem? Is this not a stereoscopy trick, and therefore unrelated to myopia? (I am myopic, I can see clearly objects upto a foot away. The theater 3d glasses are a pain, and there is a lot more room for shoving prescription glasses there, so VR display+glasses would be unbearable to me.)

    9. Re:Shut up and take my money by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      The optics set the focal distance at infinity, so everything is maximally far away. The B and C cups bring the focal plane closer, but because of the distortion, the focal plane is curved outwards. So maybe with the B lens you get the center of vision in focus but the edges are too far away (and blurred), but with the C lens you get the edges in focus but the centre is too close for your eyes to focus.

      No combination of my glasses and the lenses is perfect, so I normally settle on the B lenses with my glasses on, which seems to be the best compromise, but still not a great option (outside the center is blurred).

      I believe the latest prototype enlarges the lenses, which might help.

  6. never gonna happen by Thud457 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    perfect is the enemy of good.
    Carmack will keep dinking around with this and never ship a product. They should just get version 1.0 out the door and start working on 2.0. Instead, they're already on version three or four hand haven't sold one unit.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:never gonna happen by somersault · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you're talking about with "haven't sold one unit". Or do you not count the development kits?

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:never gonna happen by Ultra64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is the second version, and they've sold thousands of units. I have one.

    3. Re:never gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You never had a Dev-Kit. The prototypes are not ready for the consumer. They only give you a glimpse about the future and the Dev a Kit to start development. You can't sell something that make most people motionsick in no time and has nearly no games to use.
      With this prototype, they have nearly all features ready for the consumer. Till the end of the year, you will have your consumer kit and it will rock the world.

    4. Re:never gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      They aren't going for perfect, but there are several things that it absolutely needs before it is ready. Head tracking tops that list easily. I have one of the earlier prototypes, and the lack is painfully obvious. Plus, core features like that have to be integrated into games, if you are missing it then you will have a compatability break between 1 and 2, which would be very harmful at this stage of affairs. The new display is less nesseccary, but it is something worth improving while they are working on getting other things running.

    5. Re:never gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Probably he doesn't and he got a fair point here.

    6. Re:never gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it any good?

    7. Re:never gonna happen by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Given that we've had 'imperfect' (read 'downright sucky') VR available to the public essentially without success for over a decade now, I'd say that they have reason to keep polishing.

      Whether or not Oculus Rift will be the eventual winner, or whether somebody who polishes faster will get to it first, I have no idea; but shoddy VR implementations are pretty uncompelling except for 5 minutes of novelty use.

    8. Re:never gonna happen by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Didn't you see the news the other day that Oculus Rift got $75M from a VC firm to bring it to market? They are going to want that money back plus a hefty return, Real Soon Now.

    9. Re:never gonna happen by Stele · · Score: 4, Informative

      The resolution could use some improvement (and has for the real release) but the tracking is AMAZING. It really feels like you are immersed completely in a 3D world. It works best in environments where your movement is decoupled completely from vision (driving and flying simulators). I've never experienced motion sickness in my entire life but 20 minutes in Half Life got me feeling quite queezy.

    10. Re:never gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this one reduced motion blur by that much and added a second dimension of head tracking that sounds like a worthy use of time and effort. Perfect is the enemy of the good is more about people bitching about Teslas being able to burn and ignoring the delta between them an the alternative. Or going down the road of NIH in bureaucracy where they will not allow an activity even though it is significantly better than the alternative.

    11. Re:never gonna happen by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 1

      I disagree, this is a paradigm shift for consumer devices, if you get to the market with something that causes vertigo/nausea in 50% of your users (due to high latency, some people can adapt, some can't) you will have a LOT of bad word of mouth and significantly cut your sales. When it comes to VR now either you do it very very very well, or it's better to not do it at all: I am really glad to see that they are taking their time with this and are going for the lowest amount of latency before shipping.

      --
      -- the cake is a lie
    12. Re:never gonna happen by Immerman · · Score: 2

      In this case though I think they may be right - VR has a bad name that will work against it because of the crappy hardware released in the 80s and 90s. Getting it right (enough) this time could well be the difference between having it take the world by storm, and being just another historical curiosity. And the single biggest weakness with the devkit would seem to be nausea - pretty much everyone agrees it starts fairly quickly, especially in First-person games, and takes a month of two of acclimation to fade. That may be okay for us hard-core gamers, but I'm sure they want our less dedicated friends to try out the headset for a bit and decide they must have one as well, and that's going to require a less painful acclimation curve.

      At this point though it sounds like there's not actually much more to be solved in the helmet itself - they've got the higher resolution, faster response screen, and positional tracking to avoid the disorienting disconnect between actual and in-game head movement. I don't see much more they could add to directly improve the experience beyond bringing latency down firmly beneath the perceptual threshold - and if they can't do that with off-the-shelf electronics then I'd say it's time to get this sucker onto the assembly line and start working on the 2.0

      On the other hand, if they've managed to source high-speed 4K screens that won't be ready until July, well then I hope they spend the next several months dialing in the remaining details on this version. And having followed all the drama with the Pandora handheld, I really, *really* hope they've got some folks on staff with lots of experience producing consumer electronics, because getting the device finalized is only the first half of the battle.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    13. Re:never gonna happen by lordofthechia · · Score: 3, Informative

      20 minutes in Half Life got me feeling quite queezy

      And I believe this is why the consumer version has been delayed. They've identified possible sources for the VR nausea (lag, lack of head *position* tracking) and are working to resolve them.

      I'm OK with the delays while they iron out these issues as I'd prefer a VR headset that has a lasting market presence to one that is introduced and in bargain bins in 3 months due to wide spread reports of users getting sick with minimal use. That said... I'm am seriously giddy about this thing.

      --
      Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
    14. Re:never gonna happen by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 2, Funny

      No he doesn't, and you badly misspelled "has."

    15. Re:never gonna happen by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      You know that every tech company has version n+1 deep in development and version n+2 at the experimental stage in the window before version n ships, right? It's a tendency which is remarkably insensitive to development timescales, be it a yearly phone or a half-decadal console.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    16. Re:never gonna happen by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

      Carmack ships. He has a track record.

    17. Re:never gonna happen by Dripdry · · Score: 2

      What kind of propaganda are you pushing, who are you working for, or how ignorant are you to not have read seemingly ANYTHING about the Oculus Rift before posting this? The entire idea has been to ship some time in 2014.

      More importantly, Carmack just came on and it's not HIS project. If I'm not mistaken he was tapped after the car crash that killed the fellow who was heading this part of the project.

      Jeez, seriously, how does this stuff get modded up?

      --
      -
    18. Re:never gonna happen by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      The eMagin HMD from about a decade ago wasn't "downright sucky." It worked great for stereoscopic vision with head-tracking, thought the FOV and resolution were nowhere near those of the Rift. Playing F.E.A.R. on it was immersive and terrifying. The only problem was that Nvidia dropped support for it shortly after release. It would have easily been worth the $1,000 it cost if it had allowed upgrade of the video driver beyond the version that was current when the HMD was released. Instead Nvidia taught me to never depend on them.

    19. Re:never gonna happen by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      If nausea is, at lelalst partly, due to not actually accelerating up and down as you move around, it may ne insurmountable.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    20. Re:never gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about some sort of omni-treadmill to walk on?

    21. Re:never gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have head position tracking.

    22. Re:never gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ... you will have your consumer kit and it will rock the world.

      Maybe they'll deliver it using a Moeller flying car.

    23. Re:never gonna happen by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      Nah, drone drop when ordered from Amazon.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    24. Re:never gonna happen by lordofthechia · · Score: 1
      If I recall the earlier specs, it had a gyro and accelerometer (like a modern smart phone) so it could track your head *movements* but it had not reliable way to position your head in 3D space (any effort to do so would require initial calibration (tell the SW my head is right now 5 ft from the floor) and go from there and hope the errors don't creep up over time. The external camera they added (which gets pointed to the user) seems to be a more robust way to determining the exact location of your head and thus matching it to the virtual world would be easier (and more accurate). The separate reference point eliminates creep up errors (accelerometer detected .5cm down but only 4.998 up when you slouched and re-straightened). Quick google search yielded this: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/133905-oculus-rift-is-the-world-finally-ready-for-virtual-reality-games

      The reason many people can’t read or watch a video in the car is that focusing in on the page or screen tells your body that it’s perfectly stable and unmoving. Your vestibular system, however, still senses the movement and vibration of the vehicle. This creates cognitive dissonance. Scientists believe that the nausea we feel as a result is an evolutionary adaptation to eating bad or toxic food. If one system is reporting movement and the other isn’t, it’s time to pull the big Reverse lever and send your dinner back.

      So in short, the better they can match RL movement to the VR world (not just lag, but precision of movement and overall head location) the lesser the chance of nausea.

      --
      Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
    25. Re:never gonna happen by lordofthechia · · Score: 1

      What impy is referring to is say for example, you're in a vehicle. The vehicle (and you) are moving in the game, but your head (and body) is not so won't be experiencing the actual acceleration. Or for a FPS you might jump down a ledge (in game) but again, the whole time your feet are firmly planted on the ground in RL. You would need a system with actuators to jostle and tilt you in the right directions to simulate that. Something like this .

      --
      Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
    26. Re:never gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only $35K. What a steal!

    27. Re:never gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get the fuck out of here, Google+ n00b.

    28. Re:never gonna happen by Jaruzel · · Score: 1

      That would be this:

      http://www.virtuix.com/

      --
      Together, We Can Make Slashdot Better. I Do NOT Mod ACs. - Check Me Out
    29. Re:never gonna happen by Kelbear · · Score: 1

      I have to disagree there. I've seen a few interviews with Carmack on this technology and it doesn't seem that he's fighting for "perfection". In the interviews he cites specific numbers he believes are necessary to achieve immersive VR. He's not aiming at an abstract concept of making it better and better, but rather minimum requirements (for example, 20ms input lag).

      There have been plenty of VR devices in the past, and they have been huge letdowns because people hear VR and imagine that it's like seeing another reality. But it's never been immersive in the way people envisioned, and part of Carmack's research has been on pinning down the specific factors that drop immersion for these devices. They've already gotten 3D and peripheral vision nailed down pretty early on, but one of the key metrics he's looking for is input lag.

      http://oculusrift-blog.com/john-carmacks-message-of-latency/682/

      "Virtual reality (VR) is one of the most demanding human-in-the-loop applications from a latency standpoint. The latency between the physical movement of a userâ(TM)s head and updated photons from a head mounted display reaching their eyes is one of the most critical factors in providing a high quality experience. Human sensory systems can detect very small relative delays in parts of the visual or, especially, audio fields, but when absolute delays are below approximately 20 milliseconds they are generally imperceptible. Interactive 3D systems today typically have latencies that are several times that figure, but alternate configurations of the same hardware components can allow that target to be reached." -Carmack

      Some highlights from that post:

      " A total system latency of 50 milliseconds will feel responsive, but still noticeable laggy.

      - 20 milliseconds or less will provide the minimum level of latency deemed acceptable."

      "Actions that require simulation state changes, like flipping a switch or firing a weapon, still need to go through the full pipeline for 32 â" 48 milliseconds of latency based on what scan line the result winds up displaying on the screen, and translational information may not be completely faithfully represented below the 16 â" 32 milliseconds of the view bypass rendering, but the critical head orientation feedback can be provided in 2 â" 18 milliseconds on a 60 hz display. In conjunction with low latency sensors and displays, this will generally be perceived as immediate. Continuous time warping opens up the possibility of latencies below 3 milliseconds, which may cross largely unexplored thresholds in human / computer interactivity!"

    30. Re:never gonna happen by Kelbear · · Score: 1

      TL;DR: Carmack is working on Time Warping.

  7. AMOLED means blacks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They missed something. AMOLED screens also mean the thing now has ultra contrast and the ability to do pitch black, that is very important for immersion, at least to me. I can deal with the reduced color accuracy.

    1. Re:AMOLED means blacks! by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      AMOLED is perfectly capable of good colour accuracy these days. The current Galaxy has a screen that rates as well as Apple's last generation of IPS screens.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  8. Depends on your customer by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Carmack will keep dinking around with this and never ship a product. They should just get version 1.0 out the door and start working on 2.0.

    Have to be careful with that when it comes to technology. You might be quite right but in many cases if the technology isn't sufficiently well developed then then potential customers get pissed off and never come back. This can be true even if you eventually work out the problems. See Apple's Newton for an example. A lot depends on the sort of customers you have and how forgiving they are of rough edges on technology. Consumer electronics customers tend to be not too forgiving in my experience.

    I used to do a lot of work with (older) technology like this in my day job. The market for this sort of stuff is surprisingly niche. Military, some industrial prototyping/testing, marketing and in some cases entertainment. It's one of those things that sounds like a good idea but the real world applications are more limited than I would have thought when I first got into VR technologies. Even if the software is easy to use (it usually isn't) there has to be a lot of effort (thus $) put into virtual model development which means that you have a chicken and egg problem. No one wants to develop the software unless there is an installed base of hardware and no one wants to buy the hardware without the software.

  9. IMO it really needs 120hz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But last I heard, that wasn't happening in the foreseeable future.

    1. Re:IMO it really needs 120hz by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Why? Your visual system updates at something like 70 times per second, 60 Hz is basically enough to saturate it.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:IMO it really needs 120hz by Guspaz · · Score: 2

      Latency. The screen isn't the only latency component, and if you're trying to get under 20ms (considered to be the point below which your brain won't notice the latency) and your 60Hz display is adding 17ms of latency, that's a problem.

      Besides, your eye doesn't work like a camera with a shutter. A human can see a 1ms long flash of light, for example, but can't process more than 10-12 distinct images per second, for example. And the framerate required to produce natural motionblur is way in excess of 60Hz.

    3. Re:IMO it really needs 120hz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems that every time there's a post about something to do with frame rates, there's always someone going "but the human eye only runs at 30fps" or something like that.

      Even if we assume for argument's sake that the eye has a certain "frame rate" (it doesn't), then it's still gonna capture a range of motion every time, leading to a strobe effect which makes the motion feel jittery. It's especially apparent when being as close to the screen as you are with the Rift.

      And there's other situations besides using the Rift where it's very apparent that 60hz simply isn't enough. I'm an illustrator, and putting down quick curved sketch lines with a drawing tablet makes it immediately clear that 60 comes nowhere close to real motion. Another example: if you ask a pro FPS gamer (which I am definitely not) about the difference or lack thereof between 60 and 120, the answer will be that it's kinda like how 30 vs 60 feels to most of us.

      So, no. You're absolutely wrong.

      Also what the other guy said about the latency. With all the hype about how they eliminated almost all latency, I was gravely disappointed when I first tried it.

    4. Re: IMO it really needs 120hz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol, all one has to do is move their mouse cursor really fast to see the limitations of 60hz. Don't be a sheep ;)

  10. heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They should bundle these with a Fleshlight.

  11. Devkits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's why they released dev-kits.
    It would be a mistake to release the current version as a finished product as the name would suffer major damage.
    This way early adapters can play around with it, the developers can get feedback and they don't suffer such high losses during the investment phase.

  12. AMOLED is a bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they stick with OLED, I'll lose all interest in the product since they're notorious for their burn-in (or rather burn-out).

    It's bad enough on phones.

  13. How FAST is the tracking camera? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 2

    As I understand it, one of the big problems with VR sickness is latency. If the display refresh and the tracking-camera frame rate are both 60 Hz, there's no way to get less than 33ms of lag as the display tracks your movement -- and that's assuming zero time to process tracking info and render the scene.

    I'd hope that they're using at least 120 Hz refresh on the display, and something much faster for the tracking camera, but I don't know what the state of the art is like on the tracking end.

    I seem to remember many years ago some research with non-progressive field rendering -- I don't remember if it dropped to low-res/faster-updates during fast motion, whether it blurred everything but central vision, or something else. In any event, I think it required highly non-standard display hardware. This was probably in the CRT days. I'd think it would work well to drop back to (say) 480p resolution during fast slews, increasing the frame rate 4x, but I don't know how accessible the necessary hardware/software would be.

    1. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 5, Informative

      The model demoed is said to have 30ms latency, total, from user input to screen. They've mentioned their end goal is sub-20ms. Current thinking is that 7-15ms is the ideal where we aren't able to perceive any lag.

    2. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by abies · · Score: 1

      If the display refresh and the tracking-camera frame rate are both 60 Hz, there's no way to get less than 33ms of lag as the display tracks your movement

      Not sure how important tracking camera is versus rotation detectors (ones which were in previous dev kit). Orientation is sampled 1000Hz. Camera is probably less, but they have prediction for movement (you cannot change position velocity as fast as rotation speed), so it might be non-issue.

      Regarding display refresh - there is 60Hz and there is 60Hz. With new display, they are not taking 33ms to refresh the display - they are 'blinking' it very fast and then it is black for most of the time. This means that 'blink' can be very much up to date and next one will be also up to date. There will be no 'smearing' of pixels while they are changing. At same time, there is something in our brains, which composes multiple single frames into continous motion (has something to do with the way eyes are naturally moving).

      Movement prediction, 'blinking' display and bit of wetware in your brain can possibly create a very good effect. No guarantee that they will achieve it, but I would not make statements about minimal latency purely based on time between display refreshes with the new OLED screens.

    3. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Their solution here is that the frame is shown on-screen for significantly less than the full 33ms, then the screen blanks, so you're not getting out-of-date visual information. The flicker rate is high enough that you don't notice the gaps.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    4. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " and something much faster for the tracking camera"
      They were previously using a COTS head tracking system with custom firmware that tracked in the 200Hz range. Their new custom solution was supposed to be 1000Hz

    5. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the display refresh and the tracking-camera frame rate are both 60 Hz, there's no way to get less than 33ms of lag as the display tracks your movement -- and that's assuming zero time to process tracking info and render the scene.

      That's assuming the display refresh and the tracking camera display and capture frames at exactly the same time, which is not necessarily the case. If they can control the synchronization of the two, they can adjust the latency to be as low as the processing/rendering time required.

    6. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or we should go much higher than 60 fps.

      Silicon Graphics did a lot of research to VR sickness for their military fighter jet simulators. They found that you need a minimum, and sustained, frame rate of 80 fps to eliminate VR sickness in pilots (you know those pilots that shouldn't have that much motion sickness to begin with).

      A few years ago the BBC showed off a demo of 300 fps television. The difference is absolutely stunning, objects that move across the screen are so much sharper compared to 50 fps. This is because the eye can track objects much more cleanly at high frame rates and properly resolve details.

    7. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      Not if you have to capture an entire tracking image before you process it, and render an entire frame before you display it. That may be an invalid assumption, though -- if they can break these down into line-by-line processing (or some other smaller-than-a-screen increment), then yes, improvement is possible.

    8. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      Ah, yes, now I remember reading about the short-display approach. That still doesn't help with latency, though, if you have to render the entire frame before you can "blink" it, and then wait a full frame interval before "blinking" the next frame.

      The flow I assumed is something like this: acquire the tracking image (takes one tracking-camera-frame-duration), then read it out (can be arbitrarily fast), then process it for localization (can be arbitrarily fast), then render the next frame of your scene (can be arbitrarily fast), then send it to your display (takes one display-frame-duration), then display it (can be arbitrarily fast). You can't get around the (tracking-camera-frame-duration + display-frame-duration) latency without doing some partial-frame trickery, as far as I can see.

    9. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the numbers. I'd mod you up if Slashdot worked that way.

    10. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm very sensitive to refresh rates (low ones in FPS can give me nausea without the VR) and I have found that around 80-100hz I can't tell at all anymore up to 120hz. 60 fps (8.5 ms) is a godsend over 30 fps (17ms), and that is just frame lag, not the entire system. If they have hit 30ms, they are heading into the butter zone.

    11. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      The camera framerate isn't relevant, because it's not the primary source of motion data. Their motion sensor (which updates at 1000 Hz) is used for positioning, while the camera is used to provide a reference to prevent drift. The camera could probably work at even just 30 Hz and still be fine, because the accelerometres in the rift aren't going to drive that much off course in 1/30th of a second.

    12. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      The camera is just to prevent drift, it doesn't need to be very fast. The accelerometres provide the raw motion data, and they're sampled at 1000 Hz.

    13. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are mods for Skyrim and FarCry 3 which adjust the resolution as you describe. The principle is sound, developers just need to include native support for such a thing. Intel has a few articles on "Dynamic Resolution Rendering" which describe how it can be done.

    14. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Which input? the controller or the motion sensors?

      The problem with motion sensors is that there is always unavoidable lag. If you use accelerometers you need to smooth the input a little to avoid it jerking about. Of you use cameras you need to wait for a full video frame, although you can of course raise the frame rate.

      Modern controllers are horrible too. Wireless introduces lag. Not much, but it all adds up.

      --
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      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    15. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by Krneki · · Score: 1

      Which input? the controller or the motion sensors?

      Motion sensors to video on the screen.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    16. Re:How FAST is the tracking camera? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference in input lag between wired and wireless controllers for the last 5+ years (PS3/XBOX360) has been less than 16.67 ms (i.e., undetectable by a 60 FPS camera). The frame period of decent FPS games is about 16.67-33.33 ms. So the delay due to the controller is less than a single frame.

      If you are observing a delay, it's not due to the wireless input delay of the controller.

  14. Re:AMOLED means blacks! (wow, racist much?) by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    pitch black

    ready for Doom3 !

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  15. Better in theory than practice by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Given that we've had 'imperfect' (read 'downright sucky') VR available to the public essentially without success for over a decade now, I'd say that they have reason to keep polishing.

    I used to work with technology like this about 10 years ago. Even if it were spectacularly good imaging that isn't really the problem with it. The biggest problem is that most people do not like wearing headsets. Oh, you can get someone to try it out for fun once or twice but after that the novelty wears off quickly for most. You might get some hardcore gamers and technophiles to buy it but I really cannot see this being a mass market item. It's fairly expensive to make, the market size is relatively small, there are a lot of development costs, etc. Don't get me wrong I think it is neat and I wish them the best of luck but I don't see this being interesting to a wide audience.

    I have no idea; but shoddy VR implementations are pretty uncompelling except for 5 minutes of novelty use.

    Even very good VR implementations are uncompelling except for 5 minutes of novelty use. Somewhat like 3D glasses this is a technology that sounds better on paper than it turns out to be in practice.

    1. Re:Better in theory than practice by pitchpipe · · Score: 1
      One word:

      Porn

      Even very good VR implementations are uncompelling except for 5 minutes of novelty use.

      Five minutes is about all it takes.

      --
      Look where all this talking got us, baby.
    2. Re:Better in theory than practice by bmajik · · Score: 2

      I'll tell you what will make Occulus Rift a ton of money.

      It needs an additional peripheral. Specifically, something that slides over the male genitalia and has programmable motors, maintains a certain amount of heat, and can be cleaned and lubricated.

      Call it a milking machine with a USB port :)

      With that peripheral and a VR headset, you have the possibility to make highly immersive pornography.

      We've established that porn is the killer app for new technology.

      VR porn may be what pushes the development and adoption of consumer VR.

      Frankly, I'm shocked that the "milking machine" isn't already a real thing....

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    3. Re:Better in theory than practice by binarylarry · · Score: 1

      I think there is a market for maybe five computers in the world.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    4. Re:Better in theory than practice by timeOday · · Score: 1

      I can't help seeing a huge similarity between what you are saying and what people said about smartphones, when I was such a geek for carrying around a HP28s / Psion IIIa / Palm Pilot / PocketPC. After decades of slow improvement, something can reach a threshold a suddenly take off.

    5. Re:Better in theory than practice by sjbe · · Score: 1

      I can't help seeing a huge similarity between what you are saying and what people said about smartphones, when I was such a geek for carrying around a HP28s / Psion IIIa / Palm Pilot / PocketPC.

      I don't remember anyone thinking the potential market for smartphones was a niche market. The problem was that the state of technology didn't allow for a form factor and features with mass appeal. Smartphones were a convergence of several technologies for which there was already a proven demand (phones, PDAs, cameras, personal computers). VR headsets do not enjoy the same situation. Virtually nobody uses them or needs them for any practical purpose today. There are a few incredibly small niche applications in the military and industry. There may be some interest as an entertainment device though the potential market seems limited. I can't see anyone other than hardcore gamers and technophiles buying one of these and even then they won't be able to use it for much more than a few games.

      After decades of slow improvement, something can reach a threshold a suddenly take off.

      Possible but I don't really see the application that would drive demand. (and before someone brings it up, porn is not the killer app here) The problem with the smartphone was getting the technology to a usable form factor. The potential value and uses were obvious even when it wasn't clear exactly what form it would/should take. The same isn't true for a VR headset. All of the potential uses are very niche and I honestly cannot conceive of any reasonably achievable form factor that would overcome people's objections to wearing them. Something like Google Glass isn't much more than a curiosity to most people and it has FAR more utility and is far less objectionable to wear among the public than a full immersion VR system. I honestly cannot think of a single reason I would buy one of these and I'm someone who as worked directly with this sort of stuff in my professional life.

      While I can't deny that maybe someone smarter than me will come up with a form factor that has relatively wide appeal, I'm pretty dubious of it. I've seen a lot of this sort of thing and without some practical application with significant appeal it simply won't be more than a technical curiosity.

    6. Re:Better in theory than practice by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

      Agreed -- as a rule, anything that requires people to change their physical behavior (wear something, move in a different way), faces enormous obstacles, unlike changing a mental behavior (e.g. use snapchat instead of instagram or whatever). But it has happened. ... I'm thinking, DDR for example got many people to jump and dance in front of the screen, but it used the kind of movements that didn't deviate much from what the people had been using elsewhere. The headset is a different story though, you never wear one elsewhere.

      I too wish them luck and think the humanity has to go through the attempt of doing this right, and if it ends up like something we don't want, at least we've tried it. Now seems like a good time tech-wise and they have good people on board.

    7. Re:Better in theory than practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or they could use the massively amount of available technology and market it for women.
      Many women now watch porn.

    8. Re:Better in theory than practice by timeOday · · Score: 1
      It boils down to whether you think Virtual Reality is a viable concept - whether it will displace the ways we currently accomplish things that we deem to be worthwhile.

      The immediate appeal of Oculus Rift to me is that I like racing and flight simulators, and I think it will be perfect for that. But the immediate barrier to my buying one is that I have a 15 year old son who already disappears into the Minecraft world for as many hours per day as he is allowed to do so. "Gaming" doesn't even quite cover it; the other day we were trying to get him off Minecraft to come to dinner, and when he came to the table he said he'd been chatting for an hour with another kid because their mutual online friend had just committed suicide. That is very "real" stuff - both because he never would have known these kids outside the game world, and also the role that immersive gaming might have played in a kid's disassociation and depression leading to suicide in the first place (I emphasize "might.")

      Already I watch the kids sitting there at the computers like zombies, snacking and picking their noses, not looking up when I enter the room to say "hi." And I dislike the thought that I look just the same way sitting and frittering time away on the computer. Then I imagine the same thing plus an Oculus Rift, so they literally can't see what's happening in the room, and I can't see what they're doing. To me it seems not unlikely, but all too inevitable.

    9. Re:Better in theory than practice by sjbe · · Score: 1

      It boils down to whether you think Virtual Reality is a viable concept - whether it will displace the ways we currently accomplish things that we deem to be worthwhile.

      I've actually spent about 5 years of my professional life working on simulation and VR technologies including a bit of immersive VR. It does have some uses but as a mass market technology I just don't see the so-called killer app. The hardware is expensive and that is unlikely to change, especially given the lack of economies of scale. Yeah a few people will use it for gaming (not many) and there are some industrial and military uses. The military probably has the most use for this sort of thing of anyone for training and simulation. It's kind of nifty as a marketing tool. The best uses I can think of for the technology are actually not in immersive VR but in augmented reality which shares many of the same hardware and software requirements but has far more mass market potential.

      For what it's worth I agree with your opinions on it being a bad idea for kids who already are spending too much time staring at screens as it is.

    10. Re:Better in theory than practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not both? Hell, link them together and you have a "virtual assistant" for long-distance couples.

      Definitely a market there.

    11. Re:Better in theory than practice by Ultra64 · · Score: 2

      >Frankly, I'm shocked that the "milking machine" isn't already a real thing....

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/12/robot-handjobs-vr-tenga_n_4261161.html

    12. Re:Better in theory than practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You think video gaming is a niche market? It is larger than the movie industry, which is ALSO a potential market.
      And people interested in new technology is a niche market? And people spending big money on audio/video equipment for home theaters is a niche market?
      Most males I know fits into one or more of those categories, and many females. I am guessing you don''t fit into one of these so you don't see it. I probably fit into all 3, so perhaps I am equally as biased, but watch and be amazed. I am confident it will be a success solely based on the video game industry's (meaning developers and designers, as well as gamers) excitement for it, even BEFORE the development kits were being sold. Video games alone will make this succeed. It might not spread like Wii-fever, but it will be a slow and steady burn as more applications and games start to be compatible and are designed for it.

    13. Re:Better in theory than practice by grumbel · · Score: 1

      The hardware is expensive and that is unlikely to change

      The Rift is already extremely cheap, devkits sell for just $300 which is about as much as a good monitor will cost you and given that the thing is little more then a mobile phone screen and motion tracking that price can easily go down to $200, $100 or even less in the coming years when they ramp up the volume.

      The reason why VR failed in the past is that it was to expensive and just not good enough. Tracking was slow, resolution was low, the things were heavy, FOV was tiny and game support was extremely limited. All that meant you would go back to a monitor sooner or later. The Rift however fixes basically all of that thanks to use of cheap components from mobile phones and in terms of performance it beats every previous consumer headset by a mile. The FOV goes from the usual 50 degree to 110 degree and the tracking is fast enough to have basically no perceivable lag. Weight is also pretty low and cost is as mentioned is a third of the inferior competition (aka Sony HMZ). Game support also seems to be much better this time around, thanks to a lot of developers either already offering native support or third party driver injection into exiting games (which was impossible in the first round of consumer VR, as games back then still run under DOS without a standard 3D API and most people didn't have the Internet yet).

      The Rift still has a bit of an uphill battle, as mainstream game development focuses mainly on consoles not PC, but given the never ending hype that this device has gotten over the last one and a half year I have little doubt that virtual reality will stick around this time.

    14. Re:Better in theory than practice by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You don't really need the head unit for that. Sex is hard work, which is why people live receiving oral so much. All the fun, none of the effort.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    15. Re:Better in theory than practice by sjbe · · Score: 1

      The Rift is already extremely cheap, devkits sell for just $300 which is about as much as a good monitor will cost you and given that the thing is little more then a mobile phone screen and motion tracking that price can easily go down to $200, $100 or even less in the coming years when they ramp up the volume.

      I genuinely hope I'm wrong and that they sell a ton of these, I'm just not optimistic. I'm not against the Rift in any way but I'm pretty dubious they are going to get enough sales to get big volume discounts. I run a company that makes wire harnesses and does contract assembly so I'm more than passingly familiar with the economics involved here. Companies like this contract with companies like mine to build their products for them. A few thousand units is not nearly enough to move the needle on price. Setup costs diminish greatly at around 10,000 units (usually) but that's isn't where the big money is here - that's in purchasing. To get big discounts on materials you have to be talking volumes of over 100,000 or more and you have to be able to deal directly with the manufacturers. Most big manufacturers don't want to deal directly with you unless you buy over a million dollars per year of a specific product. Otherwise they tell you to talk to a distributor and the markup there is pretty steep. To give an example one connector we buy for $0.37 each would cost you $2.11 if you were to buy it from a distributor - the difference is that we buy them in lots of 50,000 at a time and use 1000 each day. A lot of the stuff in this headset is custom parts (read $$$) and I doubt they do the manufacturing themselves beyond prototype quantities. I'm sure they've contracted with a company like mine to build the thing but the likely volumes simply aren't high enough to really drop the price by a lot.

      The reason why VR failed in the past is that it was to expensive and just not good enough. Tracking was slow, resolution was low, the things were heavy,

      That's part of the equation but it really is not the primary reason it has continued to fail. The primary reason is that this technology always has been a solution looking for a problem. It's neat but it doesn't really scratch an itch. No matter how good the headset is, there simply isn't any evidence that there is mass market levels of demand for full immersion VR in any of the likely markets. It's kind of like a Segway - neat but really just an expensive toy with limited real world application. Plus, for whatever reason, people just don't seem to like wearing equipment like this for more than a little while even when the experience is fairly good. Games are probably the biggest market by customer volume but I can't really see casual gamers being interested. The really big money in this stuff is probably in military applications but that's a vastly different market.

      The Rift however fixes basically all of that thanks to use of cheap components from mobile phones and in terms of performance it beats every previous consumer headset by a mile.

      Kind of a low bar to beat previous consumer VR headsets. :-)

    16. Re:Better in theory than practice by somersault · · Score: 1

      That's part of the equation but it really is not the primary reason it has continued to fail. The primary reason is that this technology always has been a solution looking for a problem. It's neat but it doesn't really scratch an itch.

      I remember similar things being said about tablet computing :) It doesn't particularly matter if it has "mass market" adoption anyway in the long run. As long as it becomes available to people like me who have been waiting for something that has "good enough" resolution and tracking, at a decent price, then it will have been worth it. I do think that there are a lot of gamers who would love this. Just look at how much the simple motion tracking on the first Wii changed the direction of console gaming.

      I have peripherals like a steering wheel, nice joystick, drum kit etc which I generally leave in a corner because I can't be bothered setting it all up. But the fact remains that when I do set them up, they're very good at improving immersion (and controllability) in games. A headset should be a bit less hassle at least.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    17. Re:Better in theory than practice by Kelbear · · Score: 1

      To put it in perspective, game consoles are sustained entirely by the limited market of gamers. "Casual" gaming was not even seen as a market segment until fairly recently with the rise of mobile gaming and the Wii. Until the PS2, game consoles had no purpose other than playing games either.

      I agree there are going to be significant hurdles to overcome in achieving the economies of scale needed to push this on a mass-market basis. But they're on the appropriate path by drumming up core development support for the Oculus Rift. They can't skip the initial step of getting developer support, because they need to show the world a fully realized "vertical slice" of gaming in VR as a working solution, so that people can see the incremental benefits over gaming on a lighted square/rectangle. It's potentially a very significant benefit, comparable to the step up from 480i resolutions to 720p resolution. This can unlock sales to niche PC gamers who can afford the expensive add-on, and are willing to endure technical hurdles. It'll flounder at this level for some time, but the key goal at this point is proving it out as a distinctive gaming experience.

      Once that is established, console manufacturers are now invited to step up to add support for a version of the device, in the same way the PS2 eyetoy led to a PS3 camera add-on and the development of Xbox's competing Kinect add-on...which has finally led to a pack-in camera device on the Xbox One. An incredibly difficult path, but one that has already been successfully navigated by a device that delivered far less on it's vision than the Oculus Rift's prototype.

    18. Re:Better in theory than practice by grumbel · · Score: 1

      A few thousand units is not nearly enough to move the needle on price. Setup costs diminish greatly at around 10,000 units (usually) but that's isn't where the big money is here

      They have shipped well over 20'000 developer kits so far. That's a device only sold through their website, known to be low-resolution, lacking position tracking and to become obsolete within a year due to release of the much improved consumer version. I have little doubt that they will sell a lot more units once the consumer versions hits the retail shelves. They also have something like $90 million venture capital, so they certainly can do some volume ordering.

      The primary reason is that this technology always has been a solution looking for a problem.

      Total immersion is a problem and people have wanted to solve for a long long time. At the moment it's still a little niche due to lack of hardware, but there is no shortage on people with tipple monitor setups, TrackIR and other gadgets to get as close to the real thing as possible. Rift can provide a better experience for much cheaper.

      No matter how good the headset is, there simply isn't any evidence that there is mass market levels of demand for full immersion VR in any of the likely markets.

      Look at some reaction videos on Youtube, everybody from 6 year old kids to 90 year old grandmas seems to enjoy the experience, a lot. Disney also did some research back in the 90's with they Aladdin Virtual Reality Carpet Ride and concluded that it's basically fun for all ages, no need to be some hardcore sci-fi geek to enjoy a bit of virtual reality. All the gaming aside, who would say no to an IMAX cinema in his living room? Virtual reality can provide that.

      It's kind of like a Segway - neat but really just an expensive toy with limited real world application.

      The Segway cost as much as a small car, so it's not that surprising that it didn't take of. If the Segway would have cost as much as a bike it would have had a much better time with mass market adoption. The Rift by contrast is pretty cheap, well within the realm of other gaming peripherals, cheaper then a big TV.

    19. Re:Better in theory than practice by sjbe · · Score: 1

      They have shipped well over 20'000 developer kits so far.

      If they have then good for them. That said, I'm willing to lay you odds that very few of those "developer kits" actually went to real developers. I simply do not believe that there are that many developers with an interest in immersive VR. I've worked in that community and it is a pretty small community. Most of those are probably sold to end consumers and it probably is a pretty good sampling of the actual market for this thing. Maybe there are enough gamers out there interested in this thing, I certainly don't know for sure and I genuinely wish them the best. It's pretty nifty tech regardless of its commercial merits.

      I have little doubt that they will sell a lot more units once the consumer versions hits the retail shelves.

      I'm happy to be proven wrong but I do not share your confidence.

      They also have something like $90 million venture capital, so they certainly can do some volume ordering

      All the money in the world won't do you any good if you order more than you can sell. Frankly if they've raised that much capital then I think there are some rather dumb VCs backing them. If the thing sells for $300 the would have to sell 300,000 of them to make that investment back and that is before they even make a profit. Maybe I'm wrong but I REALLY do not see that happening.

      Total immersion is a problem and people have wanted to solve for a long long time.

      I'm well aware. And what I'm saying is that the fundamental problem is probably not with the hardware. The problem is the lack of use cases for it.

      At the moment it's still a little niche due to lack of hardware, but there is no shortage on people with tipple monitor setups, TrackIR and other gadgets to get as close to the real thing as possible. Rift can provide a better experience for much cheaper.

      A triple monitor setup is NOT the same experience. Even a CAVE is not the same environment. There is a gigantic gap between putting on a headset and going full immersive VR versus being in a semi-immersive display environment.

      Look at some reaction videos on Youtube, everybody from 6 year old kids to 90 year old grandmas seems to enjoy the experience, a lot.

      I used to conduct demos of immersive VR for my day job. Headsets, 3D googles, etc. Everyone thinks it is cool because it frankly is cool. HOWEVER historcally very very few are actually willing to spend the bucks to buy the stuff and most that do don't use it very much. Maybe these guys have cracked the code but based on my direct experience with this sort of tech I'm quite dubious.

  16. Where the fuck is Microvision? by F34nor · · Score: 1

    I have been tracking this for a long ass time and with both google glass and oculus I keep asking where the fuck is Microvision? Their tech deals with all of the FOV, depth of field, focus, focal length, and resolution issues in spades so... WTF?

    1. Re:Where the fuck is Microvision? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like the answer to this, too. anyone know?

    2. Re:Where the fuck is Microvision? by abies · · Score: 1

      Are we talking about same Microvision which has 720p resolution and needs a 'screen' at least 6 inches from the projector and cost over $300 per piece? Imagine oculus rift with that front part 20cm long...

    3. Re:Where the fuck is Microvision? by F34nor · · Score: 1

      No. That is their only consumer product a one dimensional version of one aspect of their primary original goal. The founding idea was a image projected directly on the retina using a mems and a LED or a low energy laser (can't remember the light source.) There were tests with dedicated fiber between Japan and WSU with multiple SGI workstations that were supposedly lifelike. They have shipped product to Honda for techs to have complicated manuals projected in the FOV for service and mfg. Also some military stuff but the website never said shit about it.

      It is the best possible display. One pixel per optic nerve on the back of the retina, the retina is the projection surface.

  17. Motion sickness by sjbe · · Score: 1

    It isn't like reading in the car makes a person vomit immediately, perhaps if they just read for one minute more each day they would get to a point where it wouldn't make them sick.

    There are very very few people who would go to that effort in this case. 99.999% of people would get motion sick once and then never use the device again. Since it is for entertainment purposes primarily what would be the point?

  18. Spacial concerns by sandytaru · · Score: 1, Funny

    I'm a bit worried that if I'm in a complete and total 3D immersive space that I won't be able to use it indoors for fear of bumping into invisible furniture.

    I'm in a modest house and I have a tiny postage stamp yard. My Wifi signal is pretty good out on the street, all things considered, but I'm also afraid that if I revert to a five year old and play in the street that I'll be hit by an invisible car.

    Have they considered making safe places to use this as part of their marketing strategy? Sort of a big open VR gym? And in that case, let's make multiplayer games where I can shoot my friends who are being presented to me as orcs. It'll make laser tag look like kinder blocks.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    1. Re:Spacial concerns by jiriw · · Score: 1

      That's where this comes in. Call it a trackball for your feet (although it's actually concave) with added thigh-strap.
      Then there's also projects working on representation of your body in the 3d world, including relative position of your various body parts, like Stem. Combine these three and everything first-person should be quite immersive without you falling through a window, tripping over garden tiles or being run over by the school bus. As long as you're okay with poor feedback when you bump into something virtual or slice through your favourite adversary with a katana of your choice. They didn't fix that part to satisfaction yet.
      With Oculus Rift alone, your immersion will only be adequate for vehicle simulation, racing games and maybe some top-down strategy.

    2. Re:Spacial concerns by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      >Have they considered making safe places to use this as part of their marketing strategy? Sort of a big open VR gym?
      >And in that case, let's make multiplayer games where I can shoot my friends who are being presented to me as orcs. It'll make laser tag look like kinder blocks.

      The Rift wouldn't be right for that since it completely blocks your vision, but something like Google Glass with an AR overlay on the whole lens will inevitably be used to create something like Dream Park. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Park

    3. Re:Spacial concerns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you be running around wearing the headset? Think you have the wrong idea of what the position tracking does.

    4. Re:Spacial concerns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can just imagine- 2 girls at the gym talking "Wow, look at that guy. He's in such good shape. He must play video games all day long."

  19. movement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems to me that the very best results will only come when you pair Oculus Rift with that treadmill-like product. Though I'd still like to sit down with Oculus on, in front of a keyboard for some first-person perspective games, and just ditch the mouse... or just use the mouse for the left + right click and scrollwheel.

  20. Solution for nausea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Well when I spent 3-4 hours playing several games with occults dev version I was heavily drunk and did not experience any nausea. Am I on to something here? :)

  21. Accelerometer by Karganeth · · Score: 1

    Why not just use an accelerometer to track in 3d space?

    1. Re:Accelerometer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first model did, I believe.
      Obviously it wasn't enough to fool our brains

    2. Re:Accelerometer by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      The next version still might use accelerometers. I'm going to guess the extra head tracking is to prevent orientation "float" (drift) that would happen otherwise. If you're looking north or south, you want to ensure that calibration is updated often with the accelerometers smoothing out the transition in realtime while in motion.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  22. Finally by msobkow · · Score: 1

    Finally they're using some resolutions that might actually be worth buying.

    I hated the way they talked about an "immersive" experience with pixelated low-resolution screens. Blocks are not immersive.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  23. sigh. by JustNiz · · Score: 2

    > 1920x1080 across the field of vision

    so depending on the stereo implementation method, per-eye will be 1920x540 or 960*1080.
    Sigh. Come on guys.
    Is it really soooo frikkin impossible to have a seperate 1920x1080 panel per eye?