Slashdot Mirror
Canadian Health Scientists Resort To Sneaker Net After Funding Slashed
sandbagger writes "Health Canada scientists are so concerned about losing access to their research library that they're finding workarounds, with one squirreling away journals and books in his basement for colleagues to consult, says a report obtained by CBC News. The report said the number of in-house librarians went from 40 in 2007 to just six in April 2013. 'I look at it as an insidious plan to discourage people from using libraries' said Dr. Rudi Mueller, who left the department in 2012. 'If you want to justify closing a library, you make access difficult and then you say it is hardly used.' This is hardly new for Stephen Harper's Conservative government. Over the Christmas holidays, several scientific libraries were closed and their contents taken to the dump."
...are we batshit crazy. What the FUCK ever happened to science? We are descending back into the dark ages...
They'll welcome Slashdotters with serious software skills who keep saying they can no longer live under the US government.
Used to be, we wanted to know everything about everything. Now it seems there are powers out there that want a select few to keep their knowledge, and everyone else should know nothing.
'If you want to justify closing a library, you make access difficult and then you say it is hardly used.'
So we have "starve the beast" in Canada now.
Spiffy. Not.
--
BMO
You can't own most of the wealth if one country has too much progress.
In fairness, the libraries aren't being closed. They're being re-purposed as public relations offices responsible for such things as communicating the need to move forward with new forms of multimodal multimedia information dissemination, on a go forward basis.
Also, the books are not being dumped, they're being converted into bio-fuel (burned in very efficient co-generation waste incinerators).
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Once again the data is (allegedly) retained, but moved and is now less convenient to access.
Before the main library closed, the inter-library loan functions were outsourced to a private company called Infotrieve, the consultant wrote in a report ordered by the department. The library's physical collection was moved to the National Science Library on the Ottawa campus of the National Research Council last year.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
They don't like "experts", "indoctrination", public servants, unions, facts that conflict with domestic rhetoric, have banned CRITICAL THINKING in Texas, tried to eliminate the Dept. of Education, tried to keep minorities/migrants out as possible, and it seems the only remaining motivation they could have for destroying these establishments as possible is to prevent people from realizing that their brand of politik isn't about what you KNOW, but what you BELIEVE in the face of contrary fact.
This is the cargo cult. And you're the cargo, ultimately.
If the people of Canada think this is horrid and despicable, they only have to look into the mirror to see who is responsible for electing a Tory government. Next thing you know, your precious universal health care will be under siege. Wake up neighbors!!!
By like some famous author dude where you couldn't get books so people like memorized them or something?
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
What a horrible waste. I hope they at least had the libraries open to the public as a well-publicized "everything's free bookstore" for a few weeks before hauling the leftovers to the dump.
I remember my library growing up had a "free shelf" in the basement of old books that were to be discarded. They were often a bit tattered and worn, but what a treasure trove for a young book lover on a shoestring budget.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Wasn't there some Austrian dude who like burned a bunch of books and restricted what would be taught in schools to only support his totally bogus regime?
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
I lived in Ottawa for over 15 years and worked with government employees every day. Anything that comes along and 'the sky is falling' this is just more of the same nonsense.
If we each get one and scan it... I'd be game, so would my significant other.
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
Hey, I know Arnold Schwarzenegger did some unpopular things, but I haven't heard anything about the book burning.
I worked for Natural Resources Canada's library system in 2011. My friend worked at Transportation Canada.
They closed Transportation Canada's library system. It no longer exists. Who knows what happened to the information there, if it even exists any more. My friend told me they housed some of the world's foremost research on transportation science, and were called upon by international colleagues to provide them with information.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/...
They did a similar thing to the library at the Ministry of Fisheries and Oceans
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politic...
Environment Canada
http://o.canada.com/news/last-...
This government has a war on science and knowledge and actively prohibits scientists from speaking to the media without government approval.
http://scienceblogs.com/confes...
The Conservative government does not care about facts. They have policies they want to implement, and they will do WHATEVER it takes to ensure those policies are enacted. Even if it means destroying our scientific heritage.
Alternate Headline: "Public Agency Finds Less Expensive Way to Do The Same Job; Saves Taxpayer Dollars".
This is what people voted for. It's a democracy. If people want the more expensive solution which does the same thing, then they'll vote for that instead.
Yes, but he achieved full employment, no debt, huge GDP growth, major scientific progress, and offered free train trips to millions regardless of their class.
He just had to deal with minor terrorism issues, but our governments have learnt from his mistakes.
I was a student at curtin for a while. Whilst I was there they binned some old chemistry reference books than no one had used in a while.
They were a near complete set of chemistry journals from the 1750ish through 1910 ish. These were one of maybe 3 sets in the world, we sent to the tip. Gone forever.
This is why I am keen in the digitization of works copyrighted or otherwise.
Hey, I know Arnold Schwarzenegger did some unpopular things, but I haven't heard anything about the book burning.
Turns out Schwarzeneggger isn't the only Austrian dude out there who ended up in government in another country...
Actually 5 years ago personal HDs were made against the rule. They were collected then outright band from the network. Employees were mandated to use server storage, but in the last two years, with the creation of Shared Services Canada, there's been confusion about who's supposed to provide that service. A budy of mine who works for DFO is always complaining about fights with IM&TS and SSC. Both suppose to provide a service neither one doing it. Data is the casualty.
Sorry, meant personal external HDs
So someone gets down-modded for being the person who dares to point out they should have digitized data long ago? What kind of Slashdot is this, filled with moderating luddites who proclaim Science to be holy and even the worst mistakes scientists makes are holy things, not to be criticized.
And you morons wonder why the general populace is drifting away from science? Believe me, it's not them - it's you. Actions like continuing to keep PAPER RECORDS in this day and age are the metaphorical equivalent of massive B.O., the populace reeling away from the stench of your actions and religion being the only other reason they can find as you offer none.
So what I don't understand here is what is being lost really if there are digital records of this paper data - or did they never digitize anything? I know there is a cost to it, but over time even a volunteer effort can make large inroads...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What complete and utter crap.
The scientists who monitored these things kept libraries, containing their research journals, results, and papers and the supporting documentation.
And you, like a fucking moron, jump to the conclusion that "a small elite" have been secretly hoarding all of this information.
You're a fucking idiot. Some of this stuff is decades old, and predates when you could digitize it.
The government has claimed they're going to digitize it, but the evidence so far indicates they've barely tried to do that, and are moving straight onto destroying records.
The people complaining are the people who were trying to preserve the data and keep it accessible.
The secretive douchebags here are the politicians who don't like it when facts get in the way of policy -- because this government makes policy on what they want to be true, and seldom give a damn about what is actually true.
Oddly, we see the exact same pattern in the US with your neocons, who like to believe when they say reality is X, the rest of the world jumps and says "yes sir, reality is now X".
This is a political game, and if you can remove the stuff that proves your government is either lying or failing to make decisions based on actual evidence -- then you can pretend you have all of the answers.
Sorry, but your screed is directed at the wrong group here, and you are full of shit. The scientists wanted this stuff digitized, and had been told that it would be digitized -- they aren't the ones trying to keep the information secret and only available to them.
Your entire post tells us you are a moron, who believes scientists are secretly conspiring to make sure they have all the information and the rest of us have none.
Go crawl back under your rock.
You have no idea how much data there is. Going back hundreds of years... at least there was. Wish I could say more, but I'm on my phone.
They digitized a few pages as that was all there was funding for. It's the usual bullshit, increase spending while slightly lowering taxes until the government has spent its surplus and gone into debt (we had 8 years of surplus before these guys got in) then scream and panic about cutting spending and cut whatever is against their ideology. Their ideology in this case is that government exists to serve the oil industry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Looks like "... was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual..." is going to be a new meme. First George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four, now Ray Bradbury's Farenheit 451.
Down the memory hole!
Thank you.
With regard to deleting libraries, the only positive thing is that we are trying physically or electronically to follow the limits of human memory, and allow ourselves to start fresh from time to time. I go to the public library twice weekly, so don't take this as "born again, live free whatever", but the electronic age has grabbed everything and brought it with us, generations onwards...same music, books, etc from the past. At some point, we maybe (and I'm throwing this out there) deserve the freedom to discover truths about ourselves, in our time, without the uninformed literature of the past. If we can record everything, we need to think about not saving everything, but what the limits on saving should be.
In NSA America social networks join you!
lot of financial issues in Canada and it isn't anything new
[Citation Needed]
http://www.cbc.ca/news2/intera...
Canadians had no financial issues until Harper took power. We were on track to pay off the national debt.
Libraries are hardly used to begin
[Citation Needed]
cost a significant amount to create and maintain
[Citation Needed]
They are expensive, and a huge tax burden
[Citation Needed]
Everything in those libraries are turned into ebooks
[Citation definitely Needed]
Last post!
They digitized a few pages as that was all there was funding for.
Screw funding. What are grad students for if not the massive man-hours required to simply photograph or scan every page? Where is ANY sign of a volunteer effort to preserve this data?
Lets say it had not been thrown out. What about Fire? Flood? Library of Alexandra mean anything to anyone? Never has the "those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it" been more percent. To blame funds alone on letting this data slip away is absolving from blame those in charge of caring for the data.
Sorry, but I simply can't get worked up over the loss of data those closest too apparently never lifted a finger to digitally safeguard.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Offer the library contents to Google if Google will pay the freight. Truck freight is reasonable and a moving van will hold thousands of pounds of books. Problem solved without loss of access.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Who needs science? We've discovered it all already! They don't teach that science in business schools, so you don't need it. Nuff said.
You probably should have worn more than a trench coat, and perhaps your first question shouldn't have been "is porn blocked on the library computers?"
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
There is a reason he's called Bush-Lite (tm) here in Canada. That's shorthand for 'politician who applies the U.S. Republican playbook on anti-science FUD and obstructionist techniques to demolish science and democracy for the benefit of corporations at the expense of the environment, lower and middle class while entrenching a plutocracy bent on race-to-the-bottom globalization and resource pillaging at any cost".
Oh, sorry I got a bit 'Occupy' there but it's basically true. I have in-laws who work in environmental science who were saying 5 years ago that their papers were being squashed due to political pressure so it's nothing new here.
It's a bit disingenuous to assume everyone who didn't vote was anti-Tory.
That'd be like saying the Liberals and NDP are lazy disinterested citizens.. is that what you are saying?
Ok, maybe they are more upset with their own parties for corruption etc. and stayed home. From all indications it'll be the Tories turn next election....
All I can say is thank goodness they were a minority party for most( hopefully) of their run ( and I live in Alberta - where the oil companies started a Rose (Tea?) party just to pressure the provincial-Conservative party and win either way ).
Exhibit A - idiotic luddite post above.
Of course he's probably only pretending to be so stupid as a way to try to mislead the kiddies and brainwash them into some sort of political agenda that sees an aware and informed population as an obstacle.
to commemorate the sack of the library.
With a good education system, a conservative electorate becomes impossible. The same applies to religion. With education, religion becomes impossible.
You know, you can just post stuff online for really cheap. The issue is that they are publishing into journals that like to limit their audience as much as possible. Computer scientists post much of our research on the internet and have been experiencing exciting growth over the last 20 years. Controlling knowledge seems to be a problem with the lesser sciences.
This is why all of this needs to be digitized and made freely available online - so it cannot be controlled or contained. Information is power. How big would the torrent for all of it? The scientists should band together, home build book scanners, and seed away. All the tools for information freedom are now at hand, use them!
I'm not sure how shoes are involved in this story? Unless "Sneaker" is the name of the net/network. I'm confused. lol
They were collected then outright band from the network.
Let me guess, since you're Canadian your native language is French?
Actually that was because I was typing on my phone and I misspelled a word. I MEAN, Je ne parle pas anglais!!
The Harper administration, ever the efficient cost-cutters, saved the intermediary step between physical and digital by simply trashing the records instead. Hooray for small government!
I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
Not to defend the Conservatives I dislike, however a few points worth noting. I have had some experience with this.
A) Many of these specialized libraries are not used regularly. There may be a need for the information, and sometimes that need might be more than usual, however for the most part I would bet that most of the staff are not all that busy. Hence the reduction of staff. Though as argued this may have led to a decline in service when they are actually needed, making them even less used, etc...
B) Digitizing is expensive. Storing the information is expensive. Organizing the information is expensive. Hosting the information is expensive. Now multiply all those things by a factor of 5 because you have to use government services or contractors to built it, and infrastructure to host it. There are a whole lot of reasons for this which I won't get into, but the fact is it is reality.
C) You may or may not agree with it, but if you lower taxes, you need to cut services, and if you cut services you have to decide which ones. Too many people out there somehow think that they don't have to pay taxes and somehow get all the services they want for free. Some have pointed out that the taxes cut are corporate taxes, and I am sure the Conservatives would argue that this makes Canada more competitive and creates jobs. Personally I think that is BS, but the fact is, less taxes means less services.
Anyway many are painting this as some sort of dastardly master plan by the Conservatives to destroy science and push their agenda. I think you are giving them way to much credit. That may be the round about way result, that has some small affect on the some specific long term research, but likely its immediate impact and gains (which is what most political parties are looking for, I highly doubt the Conservatives are playing the long game here) are negligible. This is more a simple consequence of the Conservatives following their ideological plan they got elected for. They cut corporate taxes using the assumption that it would make Canada more competitive and thus more attractive to corporate job creation, this costs money so to make up for it, rather than raise income taxes (which they also said they wouldn't do) the cut services to things which they don't see as A) important, and likely B) will have little impact on the short term while they are in office so as to have little effect on the next election cycle.
So none of this is really all that surprising, nor unexpected. If you want to blame anything it is our electoral process that gives a majority government to party that doesn't even have a majority of the popular vote simply because the left is split, and that because these parties have a election cycle of 4 years, unless you have a strong leader with some legacy fetish, odds are no party will think much longer than those terms.