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VC Likens Google Bus Backlash To Nazi Rampage

Posted by timothy on from the naw-it's-more-maoist-or-khmer-rouge dept.

theodp writes "Valleywag reports on legendary Silicon Valley venture capitalist Tom Perkins' WSJ op-ed on class tensions, in which the KPCB founder and former HP and News Corp. board member likens criticism of the techno-affluent and their transformation of San Francisco to one of the most horrific events in Western history. 'I would call attention to the parallels of Nazi Germany to its war on its "one percent," namely its Jews, to the progressive war on the American one percent, namely the "rich,"' Perkins writes. 'There is outraged public reaction to the Google buses carrying technology workers from the city to the peninsula high-tech companies which employ them. We have outrage over the rising real-estate prices which these "techno geeks" can pay...This is a very dangerous drift in our American thinking. Kristallnacht was unthinkable in 1930; is its descendent 'progressive' radicalism unthinkable now?"'"

101 of 683 comments (clear)

  1. Pathetic by gweihir · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People like that will use any "argument" to justify what they are doing, no matter how remote or unrelated. They will not care whether they cheapen other things that have happened. The only goal is to pull the discussion on an emotional level, because they know the facts are not on their side...

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Pathetic by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A better comparison would have been the French revolution. A corrupt overclass that has little regard for the suffering happening beneath them, and actively working against the common good for their own benefit. Of course, that might not have supported his point so well since those guys mostly ended up at the guillotine.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Pathetic by c0lo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A better comparison would have been the French revolution. A corrupt overclass that has little regard for the suffering happening beneath them, and actively working against the common good for their own benefit. Of course, that might not have supported his point so well since those guys mostly ended up at the guillotine.

      I fail to see how this would be a better comparison, would you be so kind to enlighten me?
      Specifically, how are the "technology workers" a "corrupt overclass"? Again, how come working for Google is "working against the common good"?
      A bit more: is "working for their own benefit" imoral now? ('cause illegal is not)
      Like... what?... they don't pay for their groceries enough/at all? Or are they able to avoid sale taxes on those groceries?

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    3. Re:Pathetic by shikaisi · · Score: 4, Funny

      A better comparison would have been the French revolution.

      "Let them eat Apples"

      --
      No left turn unstoned.
    4. Re:Pathetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A better comparison would have been the French revolution

      No. Just no.

      Come on people, this is not the government trying to take action against a group it doesn't like. These "bus riders" are in danger of being rounded up and put in prison, put in camps, or put to death.

      If we as a society can't deal with the fact that a company provides transportation for its employees as a perk then we are a lost cause. These "bus riders" are probably all working while in the bus. Less traffic for everyone, less stress for the employees and more productivity for the company.

      These "bus riders" are not forced to ride the bus, and are not in danger of being burned at the stake or facing a guillotine, or being shoved into ovens or gas chambers.

      Just get a fucking grip. Your hyperbole is utterly wrong and ridiculous!

    5. Re:Pathetic by Bob9113 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Specifically, how are the "technology workers" a "corrupt overclass"? Again, how come working for Google is "working against the common good"?

      I believe the poster is talking about Perkins and the other 0.01%ers, not the 10%ers that ride the Google Bus. Perkins is disingenuously attempting to draw the technology workers onto his side by calling them 1%ers, but the reality is that very few of them are, or ever will be. The misdirected attacks by the uninformed lower class against the buses are a symptom of a very real problem that Perkins and his peers are creating (I actually believe their intentions are good for the most part, but exceedingly misinformed). Perkins is hoping to get some of the members of the labor class whose wages he and his peers have been intentionally, consciously, premeditatedly suppressing to join his side in the fight as a result of the misdirected but justified anger by the poor.

      --
      Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
    6. Re:Pathetic by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Google is like Microsoft now. They can do whatever they want. Nobody wants Windows 8. But Microsoft sells a lot of Windows 8 licenses, because that's what PCs come with. People don't have any choice.

      While it is an interesting technology with cool potential, a lot of folks don't want to be constantly filmed by Google Glass wearers for privacy issues. Like, the thought that all that Google Glass data will belong to the NSA on a whim of a secret court judge. Google doesn't give a rat's ass about people's privacy. They just want to sell their glasses, and they'll do it. And it's their right to do so, but don't expect people to love them for it.

      In the case of the Google buses, Google has the money and the right to provide that privileged service to their employees. However, to the common folks, the Google folks seem to be flaunting and taunting their wealth. So don't expect the commoners to kneel and bow down when the Google buses go by.

      I'm actually really surprised that Google hasn't hired any PR muscle to handle some of these issues. But again, like Microsoft, too much success leads to arrogance.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    7. Re:Pathetic by c0lo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A better comparison would have been the French revolution. A corrupt overclass that has little regard for the suffering happening beneath them, and actively working against the common good for their own benefit. Of course, that might not have supported his point so well since those guys mostly ended up at the guillotine.

      I fail to see how this would be a better comparison, would you be so kind to enlighten me?

      Specifically, how are the "technology workers" a "corrupt overclass"? Again, how come working for Google is "working against the common good"?

      A bit more: is "working for their own benefit" imoral now? ('cause illegal is not) Like... what?... they don't pay for their groceries enough/at all? Or are they able to avoid sale taxes on those groceries?

      Not the tech workers themselves, who are just people working for the 1%.

      The 1% who are the majority owners of the corporations that run America today would be the 'corrupt overclass'.

      So... on what moral ground are the tech workers being attacked? How is this more likely with the French revolution than it is with Kristallnacht? (what makes the comparison with the French Revolution a better one?)

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    8. Re:Pathetic by ganjadude · · Score: 2, Insightful

      correction. They are not in danger of the government doing that to them. They are in danger by their own neighbors doing it. The original point comparing it to the treatment of the jews in germany, while hyperbole, is more apt

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    9. Re:Pathetic by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To the masses, they are the face they attach to the ruling class. It's the classic move by the ruling class to deflect the attention from themselves.

      Believe it or not, lessons from French revolution were taken very seriously at higher echelons of Western societies.

    10. Re:Pathetic by jackspenn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      that would be the pension funds then :-)

      And since it would be the pension funds, that would mean this whole occupy movement is against pension fund members. You know, people like middle-class teachers, middle-class union members, state and federal government employees, etc.

      This whole "war on the 1%" is such BS, for several reasons:

      1. After the current 1% is removed or looted, there will still be a 1%.
      2. The collateral damage to people who work or earn a living from the 1% will be tremendous. I know you are going to think I am crazy when I say this, but in my experience, rich people have often hired me to do work for them and not once has a poor individual given me a good job.
      3. The reality of the situation is that while the occupy camp claims to be against the 1%, this claim is done to make a false majority and gain support. When in reality occupy types are truly against "anyone with more stuff". Once you recognize this, you will understand why they attack employees of Google.
      --
      Respect the Constitution
    11. Re:Pathetic by jackspenn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why does this anonymous coward get to decide what is good and what is bad for the rest of us?

      This is one part I hate about socialism and communism, these centralized economic systems allow for people (or committees of people) no smarter and often less intelligent than the common individual to make arbitrary decisions for the greater good.

      The beauty of capitalism (and why the US should work to get back to a pure capitalist society) is that each of us as individuals can decide for ourselves, vote with our money, with our goods, with our services and support things we like and ignore things we do not.

      --
      Respect the Constitution
    12. Re:Pathetic by runeghost · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What you're missing is that these private buses are using public stops. It's a very minor thing, yes. But it's also a perfect symbol of what's been happening in America: Private companies enrich a tiny fraction of the population, while moving as much of the costs of their personal enrichment onto the public, often damaging the public interest in some way or another while enriching themselves.

      Again, this is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, and in a country that did not have levels of wealth inequality comparably to Imperial Rome it would never be an issue. But it represents the problems of 21st Century America so perfectly, I'm not surprised it has ignited something of a firestorm.

    13. Re:Pathetic by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      Because lower echelons do not have the necessary resources (human, material, information, morale, empowerment) to organise in a sufficient fashion, as they live in the world that is dominated by the top few.

      That has been the reality of our species since we lived in the caves.

    14. Re:Pathetic by stenvar · · Score: 2

      They'll also use all kinds of logic-defying arguments, such as linking progressives to the Nazis, when in fact the Nazis were a RIGHT-WING dictatorship who hated the communists, unions, and pretty much everything the right wing otherwise correctly or not links progressives

      The Nazis were both strongly anti-communist and strongly anti-capitalist. Their views on economics were supposed to represent a "third position": they advocated and implemented heavily regulated private ownership under state control, where the purpose of state control was to ensure that productive members of society would benefit from profits (as opposed to capitalists and investors), and that corporations acted in the public interest. As you can see, there is, in fact, a significant overlap with what passes for "progressivism" in the US, which simultaneously is anti-capitalist and refused to identify as socialist.

      They believed in socialism all right--the kind of socialism where large corporations get the welfare and the people get screwed. Pretty much like what we have now

      Yes, we do, in significant part to the bailouts, stimulus packages, subsidies, mortgage policies, and health care reformed... advocated and implemented by people who call themselves progressives.

    15. Re:Pathetic by hax4bux · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wow. The hate meter just pegged.

      Lets try another tack. How about "don't be the victim?" Education and training is an investment. Skipping the hard classes has a tendency to bite back over time. Don't be surprised when society doesn't need yet another liberal arts person, because LA has low barriers and there is a surplus.

      Instead of hating, why not try learning? Ask yourself, "How did those people get on the Google bus and how can I join them?" There are still empty seats, if you can prepare yourself. (Note: Google is merely an example, I don't work for Google and most likely never will).

      Of course, if you don't believe in hard work and education... well... perhaps you will have to settle for ineffective protest.

      There isn't much "boot licking" in software these days. Tyrants have a difficult time hiring worker bees who tolerate abuse. So dial back the hyperbole because it doesn't help your cause. Unless (of course) your "cause" is to simply be provocative. Then by all means crank it up and see how long you have listeners.

    16. Re:Pathetic by ApplePy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What you're missing is that these private buses are using public stops. It's a very minor thing, yes. But it's also a perfect symbol of what's been happening in America:

      Or, it may simply be that existing places where public buses stop to load and disgorge passengers -- happen to be someone's crazy idea of good places for private buses to do the same.

      I've seen places where bus stops have a pullout area so as to be out of a traffic lane while stopped. Don't know if that applies here, but think about it... what sense would it make to deliberately stop somewhere other than a bus stop, for the express purpose of avoiding bus stops?

      If you think the private companies should put in their own bus stops, grand. But they can't just go out and tear up streets without permission from city and/or state governments, which may or may not ever accomplish anything anyway.

      We put up public infrastructure for people to use. I'm reasonably certain we can't discriminate against people with too much money.

      --
      That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
  2. Godwin's law by maxwell+demon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe someone should have told him about Godwin's law.

    By invoking a Nazi comparison, he already lost.

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    1. Re:Godwin's law by dfenstrate · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The fascist actions of the Government lately cannot have escaped your notice. In case they have, I'll paste a summary for you:

      Coincidence: Hollywood’s only conservative group is getting close IRS nonprofit scrutiny

      Another Coincidence: James O’Keefe Group Being Audited by NY. Again.

      Yet Another Coincidence: Dinesh D’Souza Indicted For Election Fraud

      Still Another Coincidence: IRS Proposes New 501(c)(4) Rules That Just Happen to Cover Most Tea Party Groups

      Judge Strikes Down Wisconsin’s ‘John Doe’ Subpoenas

      Secret investigations targeted coincidentally at most prominent conservative groups in WI who can only now legally talk about their harassment. If you want to see what American fascism would look like, well this is it.

      quote source: Here, with more links.

      The power of the federal goverment, and some state governments, is being turned against those who oppose the powerful. If you don't have a problem with that, you're no better than a Nazi, regardless of Godwin's law.

      --
      Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
  3. It's called perspective by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What actually led to the third reich's rise to power? Economic imbalance.

    What actually fueled the war? Economic benefit to the very richest people. You can't make war without materials. They didn't have all the materials they needed, and they were able to buy them from other countries. The US government knew that an american was making fuel sales to the reich, but permitted them to continue for quite some time, then later seized the profits. Mitsubishi Zeroes were made out of ALCOA aluminum.

    What's leading to any possible progrom-like activity against the rich? The actions of the rich.

    Can't feel sorry for the wealthy. Share your wealth with us, or we will share our poverty with you. Signed, the world.

    P.S. If you have a job, a roof over your head, and lighting and refrigeration, you are a member of the eight percent.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:It's called perspective by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here's a shocking stat I came across just yesterday: the richest 85 PEOPLE have as much wealth as the bottom HALF the world population. That's 85 == 3.5 BILLION. citation[PDF warning]

      Almost HALF of the world's wealth is owned by one percent of the population.

      In the US, the wealthiest one percent captured 95 percent of post-financial crisis growth since 2009, while the bottom 90 percent became poorer.

      Unfortunately, I have somewhere to be, or I'd be writing a much longer epistle.

    2. Re:It's called perspective by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My 9 year old daughter is debt free, but doesn't really have any income. That places her as wealthier than 2 BILLION people (with negative net worth) using your methodology!

      There are "lies, damn lies, and statistics." Your use of statistics falls into that category.

      It doesn't matter how wealthy people are compared to each other, unless your overwhelming consideration is jealousy. It matters how wealthy people are compared to how wealthy they used to be.

      Also "the bottom 90 percent became poorer" is an inaccurate statement, unsupported by the data. If you took the people considered part of the "bottom 90 percent" in 2009 after the housing/financial crisis, those specific people have as a whole become wealthier. The current group of people (in 2014) they might rate as the "bottom 90 percent" are a significantly different set of individuals, many of whom were not in the "bottom 90 percent" in 2009.

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    3. Re:It's called perspective by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Income inequality" is a fraudulent, rhetorical device, a red herring. The correct measurement, from a scientific point of view, is outcomes analysis in the average person's changes in health, longevity, and wealth, the loaves of bread and tvs on their shelves.

      If you include China, India, and most of the former eastern bloc countries, the average quality of life is skyrocketting. Because of freedom-based capitalism. Your class warfare rhetoric has had its day and been found murduringly lacking in comparison. I doubt it even took a hit in western countries, drooling rhetoric aside. If you include bringing billions online into research, it's even worse for your rhetoric.

      Don't be mad at me. Be mad at outcomes-based research. You should be down on your knees praising the phenomenal success of this "race to the bottom", you so laughingly call this incalculable boon to humanity, whom your rhetoric did nothing to help for a hundred years for these people.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  4. Uh right. by sg_oneill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Theres a big difference between the Nazis arguments on the Jews and the OWS argument on the 1%.

    The OWS believe the ultra rich are ultra rich because they are ultra rich

    The nazis thought the jews where ultra rich because the nazis where racist fanatics.

    Kind of a difference.

    --
    Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    1. Re:Uh right. by wisnoskij · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am pretty sure the Nazis thought the Jews were rich, because they were rich. They hated them and thought they were trying to take over the world because they were bat-shit crazy, and needed someone to blame for all their problems.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    2. Re:Uh right. by ddtstudio · · Score: 3, Informative

      Citation, please. Snark aside, I'm not sure why you are "pretty sure" of this.

      There were rich and high-profile Jews, to be sure. As there were rich and high-profile Christians, Austrians, etc., at the time. But if you even took a few seconds to look up what Kristallnacht was, you'd realize that the thousands and thousands of Jewish businesses that were targeted were shops: small commercial places such as storefront butchers, shoemakers, bookstores, etc. Just in that, you'd realize that these people who were hauled away, often to death camps, were not the 1%, but working class.

      Hey, I'm not just irritated at your "pretty sure" statement because this happened to my own family members. Go look things up before you make a public statement. Don't be a Perkins.

    3. Re:Uh right. by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      Theres a big difference between the Nazis arguments on the Jews and the OWS argument on the 1%.

      The OWS believe the ultra rich are ultra rich because they are ultra rich

      The nazis thought the jews where ultra rich because the nazis where racist fanatics.

      Kind of a difference.

      OWS thinks that the rich get that way by cheating or stealing from ordinary people.

      The Nazis believed that the Jews got rich by cheating or stealing from ordinary people (Germans in that case).

      The Nazis drew inspiration from Marx. OWS draws inspiration from Marx.

      "The classes and the races, too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way.” - Karl Marx

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    4. Re:Uh right. by MtViewGuy · · Score: 2

      Except for one thing: does the OWS crowd understand what happens when Socialism--the aim of many OWS supporters--runs amok? Ask the elderly survivors of the former Soviet Union under Stalin and China under Mao what happened--unfettered mass shootings, labor camps, forced exile and deliberate famine that may have killed (by scholarly estimates) at minimum 100 million people, with some estimates as high as 150 million people. In short, 10 to 15 times what the Nazis achieved between 1933 and 1945.

      Now you know why I detest Socialism.

  5. Wild exaggeration by Coward+Anonymous · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The comparison is inappropriate.

    At the same time, I do understand the disgust with the neo-luddites of SF and their alarming witch hunt - it is a mob.

  6. That's not what Godwin's Law is about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Godwin's Law states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1" It doesn't mean you automatically lose a debate, it just means that Hitler/Nazis will inevitably get dragged into the conversation.

    1. Re:That's not what Godwin's Law is about by Shimbo · · Score: 3, Informative

      It doesn't mean you automatically lose a debate

      Not as originally stated, although that is often assumed to follow. For example, the Jargon file has:

      “As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.” There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.

    2. Re:That's not what Godwin's Law is about by maxwell+demon · · Score: 4, Informative

      From Wikipedia (emphasis by me):

      "For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.[7] This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law."

      That's what I've known as Godwin's law since I've first heard the term, and this is how I used it above.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  7. Brazil by sobolwolf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have lived in Brazil for quite some years now. Here the gap between rich and everyone else (there is no middle class here so to speak) is to such an extent that if you have money you are a target. This means that you must live in a gated community in constant fear that you or your kids might be kidnapped. You need to own a cheapo car so you won't stand out too much when driving around. Of course you will have a nice car too, but this is only for weekends or maybe travel to places where other rich people go. In the end it is easy to become a prisoner of that wealth that is supposed to make you more free. I would prefer to live middle class in a 1st world country than rich in Brazil. The sad thing is that the erosion of the middle class in the 1st world countries means that they soon might resemble Brazil, and this is not good, even if you are rich.

    1. Re:Brazil by mean+pun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The sad thing is that the erosion of the middle class in the 1st world countries means that they soon might resemble Brazil, and this is not good, even if you are rich.

      Which is exactly why it is so shortsighted to cut on welfare programs and generally treat the poor as the enemy, as is the trend in the US and many european countries nowadays. When the poor start to starve, they will not die quietly, they will get violent. Keeping the masses reasonably well off is a good investment, even for the most psychopathic rich.

    2. Re:Brazil by phmadore · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think a scientific study might show that welfare, truly, solves poverty in the same way that arsenic solves cancer. We have to deepen our understanding of the problem. Instead of welfare, give people a nice, clean place to live and a guarantee that they will have food in their refrigerator and an economy which will produce a job for them if they are willing to become equipped to do a job. The very small number of CHARITIES which do things along these lines that I have seen have stunning results in comparison to results from government-administered welfare programs. They also spend a lot less money doing it.

    3. Re:Brazil by iluvcapra · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think a scientific study might show that welfare, truly, solves poverty in the same way that arsenic solves cancer.

      Arsenic is an effective treatment for leukemia.

      Empirical econometric studies of direct government transfers, "welfare," are generally favorable, at least compared to other popular alternatives, such as "nothing." Critics generally don't attack welfare with "scientific evidence," they attack it on moral and anecdotal grounds.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    4. Re:Brazil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think a scientific study might show that welfare, truly, solves poverty in the same way that arsenic solves cancer.

      Then the evidence suggests you may be American: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare's_effect_on_poverty.

      And there are plenty of scientific studies

      That said, you may be right... after all, arsenic trioxide is used to treat some forms of cancer.

    5. Re:Brazil by visualight · · Score: 2

      Replacing entitlements with charities is exactly the wrong thing to do. The fact that a person meeting certain criteria is -entitled- to assistance is almost as important as the assistance itself.

      There is a psychological element to this, and whether someone feels entitled to assistance or needs to go on bended knee to -ask- is a pretty big deal.

      Studies supporting this have been posted to Slashdot in the past, but I have to start a 5 hour drive and don't have time to google for you. Relative income vs Absolute income is probably a good search phrase.

      --
      Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
  8. perspective? by inode_buddha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Somehow I think that actual holocaust survivors would be insulted by this comparison. Also I think the yahoo has lost all sense of perspective and proportion.

    I think what angers everyone else is that "the rich" are playing by a different set of rules. Fix that and you'll fix most everything else.

    --
    C|N>K
  9. One Percent by oldhack · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First of all, I'm sure Google/Apple/etc. get to pull some of the cream of the crop, but these guys still don't make the kind of money the Wall St. Assholes make - they are hardly One-percenters.

    The dude is truly out of touch with the rest of society.

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  10. A short list of things that are like the Holocaust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. The Holocaust

    I also have a list of things that are like slavery if anyone is interested.

  11. Wrong left-wing extreme by mrsam · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I do agree that the "99% versus the 1%" movement in American politics has some striking historical parallels. However, I don't think that Nazi Germany is the best comparison. A more appropriate historical equivalent would be the Bolshevik/Communist movement that culminated in the Bolshevik revolution of 1917 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolshevik_Revolution).

    The contemporary rhetoric from the left wing of America politics: i.e. "the 1%", "make the rich pay their fair share", etc... Is nearly word-for-word the same rhetoric heard on the streets of Russia, adjusted for a century's worth of elapsed history, urging the "proletariat", the working people to rally against the "bourgeoisie", i.e. the rich, and the "kulaks", the ultra-rich. Led by the Bolshevik movement, it culminated in the Bolshevik revolution of 1917. The word "Bolshevik" is directly translated as "ones belong to the majority". In other words, "the 99%". All the great unwashed I saw on the boob tube at various "Occupy " events, in the last couple of years, are the sons and daughters of the Bolsheviks a century ago. Whether they realize it, or not.

    1. Re:Wrong left-wing extreme by PvtVoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People riding the Google Bus are not the one percent. Hell, most likely not even the top five percent

      Why the fuck anybody would have a problem with companies providing middle-class workers with traffic-reducing, environmentally friendly transport to work us utterly beyond me. But, oh please, successful people: lay off the victimhood schtick. It's silly and unbecoming.

    2. Re:Wrong left-wing extreme by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Informative

      The word "Bolshevik" is directly translated as "ones belong to the majority". In other words, "the 99%".

      You might want to check a history book? The word doesn't have anything to do with "the 99%" or population groups at all. The Bolshevik, or "majority" faction was a split with the Menshevik, or "minority" faction within the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party primarily over issues of tactics. Both sides of the split were Marxists. You have probably also heard of some Mensheviks, such as Leon Trotsky.

      --
      10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
    3. Re:Wrong left-wing extreme by Your.Master · · Score: 2

      You are misreading the chart. That is nowhere close to 2%, even after the signing bonus.

      See the bar on the far right for "$250,000 and over"? It's about 2.3% high. There's even a note about the first 4 percent being incomes greater than 200k. That 140K does not come close. Also it's not really reasonable to add the one-time 30k signing bonus.

      Have a look at this: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics...

    4. Re:Wrong left-wing extreme by gnoshi · · Score: 2

      One possible reason (and I'm not in SF so this really is just speculation) is that it is seen as Google using its money to buy its way out of the limitations imposed on the rest of the community - in this case, in transport - rather than contributing to resolving the underlying problem of inadequate general public transport.
      Whether that is a fair perspective or not is another matter, but that is a possible reason.

  12. Who are you talking about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There, fixed that for ya.

     

    People like that will use any "argument" to justify what they are doing, no matter how illogical. They will not care whether theyworked for what they have. The only goal is to pull everyone down to their level, because they know they are too lazy too succeed on their own.

    Are you talking about the Op-Ed author or the protestors?

    Everyone works hard. This myth that the top of the socio-economic pyramid is there because they worked harder than everyone else and that the poor just sit around and do nothing is just complete and utter non-sense. Well, maybe not. There are the folks who inherited their money and just collect rents and dividends and hang out on their yachts.

    I work very hard, but could I ever enter the World of this VC?

    No. Because I do not know the right people to get there.

    I have no doubt that among the protestors there are very hard working smart people that could do a better job than this guy can - any day. But they don't have the contacts and may even be considered someone who is the "wrong sort" and won't "fit in" to their "corporate culture".

    Perkins is very smart - I have no doubt - and lucky for him that he had parents who gave him great genes and the nurturing to bring out his god given talents.

    But look how he was at the right place at the right time to ride on the coat tails of Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard at the beginnings of Silicon Valley. He was lucky enough to get in at the start of the "gold rush".

    No sir. This guy had some wonderful opportunities given to him and like most successful people, delude themselves into thinking it was 100% their hard work.

    1. Re:Who are you talking about? by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      I agree that this mentality is wrong, but credit where credit is due - these guys tend to be willing to take significant risks that most of us shirk away from. I know some of these entrepreneurial guys. Some are honestly too stupid to do it and go down in flames spectacularly. Some are smart but not lucky and go down in flames spectacularly. One guy I know has been at it for the 20 years that I've known him. Several times, completely reinventing himself. Now, he started out from privilege - his mom and dad were college educated and put him through school. Like me, he never had to worry about living on the street... he could just move in with Mom if he had to. But still, I have to hand it to him, he's been very persistent and willing to take some pretty mighty hits. He makes a lot more money than me as a result.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:Who are you talking about? by ScentCone · · Score: 2

      Everyone works hard.

      Do you really expect anyone to take anything else you say seriously when you start out with something as transparently wrong as that?

      I work very hard, but could I ever enter the World of this VC?

      No. Because I do not know the right people to get there.

      So who did the first people who got wealthy know? How is it that we have millions of prosperous people in this country, including many who are the children of first-generation immigrants? Did they "know" somebody before they started their small business and worked three jobs until their family could buy a house and get their kids through college?

      But they don't have the contacts and may even be considered someone who is the "wrong sort" and won't "fit in" to their "corporate culture".

      br. So why aren't they starting a business of their own where having a nose ring and tattoo sleeves IS the corporate culture? If nothing about how you act and conduct yourself has anything to do with success, then what's the barrier? If there is a huge market of customer and employers and employees all of whom would be successful if they just bought, sold, and worked for, and employed "their type" - why aren't they doing it? When you can raise a few hundred grand through Kickstarter by just maxing out your tribal appeal, what's the excuse for living in a hovel if you're otherwise "just as good as" someone who actually knows how to put together a business plan, deal with employing people, contending with the nightmare payload of tax and regulatory matters that come with running a business, and the rest?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    3. Re:Who are you talking about? by fat_mike · · Score: 2, Interesting
      So has Slashdot now become the Socialist News that Matters? This is utter bullshit. All those roads and bridges you all spout about, yes in some cases DOT's built them but most of the time the states realized they didn't know how to do it and hired private contractors to build.

      How did they pay those contractors or the DOT's that mostly fill potholes with asphalt....with my freaking tax dollars!

      The Federal government does not produce income without taking it from the people who work. These so called 1% are paying 55.85% of their income to taxes to San Francisco California and the Fed. You should be thanking them.

      Delude himself that it was his hard work.....I'm am just shocked at the amount of Socialist BS that is flowing in America. Yes, hard work is important. Were there roads before Ford built his first car? Were there bridges built by the government before the locomotive? Why do we have air traffic controllers and the TSA? The car, the train, the airplane...all built by capitalist individuals that then forced the government to respond. The private sector is always ahead of the public. You want a handout you take it...me, I'm going to work as hard as I can, learn as much as I can, help my fellow humans as much as I can and have my voice heard with my vote. The fact that this post got moderated as high as it did is very telling Slashdot.

    4. Re:Who are you talking about? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Everyone works hard.

      Well, actually that's not true, everyone thinks they work hard, but it's not really relevant.

      You get paid $8 an hour to dig ditches with a shovel, but $50 an hour to dig it with a backhoe. Which one is working harder? Is that fair?

      The problem is no one cares how hard you work, they care how much value you provide. Understanding the difference is the first step to becoming rich.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:Who are you talking about? by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While there are such people as you described, Perkins isn't one of them. He was a middle manager, an employee. He was as much a peon working for a wage as the people who ride the Google buses. He didn't take any risks at all. He just rode HP's success. I'm sure he contributed to that success, but he was hardly going out on a limb to achieve it. And he got rich.

      Tens of thousands of people try the startup route. The vast majority of them fail. Just because he got lucky and found a fairy godmother, he thinks everyone else should too. As if it was a choice. As if he planned it. He acts like he's unaware that you can make all the right decisions in a startup and still fail. Because you can only make those decisions with the information you had at the time, and no one has perfect information. If you're lucky, you have access to the information you need to make decisions that result in success. If you're not, you follow the route of the other 9/10 startups. As a venture capitalist, he knows this, at some level. He just can't acknowledge it, so he indulges in hyperbolic thinking like comparing a few toothless meaningless protests to Nazi Germany. It's intellectually dishonest, but he wouldn't be allowed into all the right clubs if he didn't toe the party line, so he does.

  13. War on the American one percent? by GrumpySteen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not war until weapons come out and people start dying.

  14. bah by skipkent · · Score: 3, Interesting

    at a time when income disparity is at an all-time high in about the last 100 years. tom perkins is worried about some future backlash against the rich, while the political system has already sold out most of the public if anything does happen, when push comes to shove, he'll be able to take his money with him to singapore or hong kong like the russian oligarchs took theirs to london.

    lol, he's written books
    http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Sing...
    how self-absorbed do you have to be to write this?

  15. Obviously something of an exaggeration... but... by Karmashock · · Score: 2

    These people are dangerous radicals if not in action then in concept. Their way of thinking... entitlement... and presumptions are dangerous.

    We have people in SF that feel they're entitled to stop traffic to promote bicycles with some frequency. We have people that feel they're entitled to pour sugar in the tanks of industrial machinery for pretty much any construction project.

    There is a strain of radical leftism in the SF area that really needs to get its public respect pulled. I am not saying pass a law. I am not saying persecute these people with government power. Rather, I am saying that they depend on a basic level on our acceptance of their behavior and we don't have to accept it.

    Their actions are not respectable. It really should stop. Stop granting them respect for their behavior. Its unacceptable.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  16. Oy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Taking this a bit personally, are we?

    For one, the protestors are just going after an easy target - the employees of the companies that were using the public bus stops as their own private stops. If those protestors could, I'm sure they'd rather go after Perkins and his buddies.

    These protests are just a symptom of the anger the lower classes at the fact their real incomes and standard of living is declining while being told that they're too stupid to work in the well paying fields while people like the op-ed author are actively lobbying to bring in people overseas that are really no better than they are. (Please, I''ve personally had to train H1-Bs on what a pointer was and what memory locations are. Don't give me this BS that they are smarter or better trained than we are.)

    We have an upper class that is trying to turn our education system into a jobs training program for their exploitation. Our education system is for having an educated electorate and not about creating worker drones. Our kids should be learning reading, writing, math, science:chem,phys, biology, critical thinking skills - NOT how to be a code monkey; which is all high school level CS classes teach.

    In short, these corrupt people are trying to force THEIR training expenses onto the public while PROFITING off of the potential results.

    We DO NOT need more programmer we NEED more people who can think and communicate. And with this World getting more and more integrated, our kids need to learn foreign languages MUCH more than a computer language that will go out of style in a few years.

    1. Re:Oy by sandertje · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, I think your kind of people are exactly the problem. Companies have been screaming for years that education does not align with the work field. It's all very nice for the student to learn how to write beautiful academic essays and what not, but that's all bullshit to companies. They just want people that know how to do X - without having to entirely re-educate these people. I think the western world has been living far too much in the "oh, i can do everything I want, and still be rich"-fantasy world. No, you can not become everything you'd like to. All very nice that you can perfectly communicate in esoteric ancient Babylonian, but it's not fucking useful!. The Germans have found an elegant solution to this problem, which is a win-win situation for all involved; they call it ausbildung: in stead of university, students take courses at a company for about 2 years. The company pays all the bills (the student even gets paid). After finishing the courses, the student is almost certainly guaranteed a job at said company, and the company has exactly the type of employee it wants/needs.

    2. Re:Oy by JWW · · Score: 4, Insightful

      is for having an educated electorate and not about creating worker drones.

      You really really need to look at the history of public education. What you're stating is more like what existed before the 20th century. Government based public education was built by the industrialists specifically to train workers.

      Its very well documented.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...
      http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/ne...

    3. Re:Oy by RedSteve · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What you are describing is training.

      training is not Education.

      Education makes it easier to train someone, but training is not - and should not be - the sole point of Education.

    4. Re: Oy by kittylu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The stated issue and victim of obfuscation in this argument is that Google as a private company has been (knowingly) violating the law by using public bus stops in transporting employees without formal permission, let alone any discussion of compensation and guidelines to offset disruption of the public. Secondarily, the city of San Francisco was essentially letting Google get away with doing so until they could no longer ignore the outcry over the situation. Transportation is highly regulated, and Google has been effectively exempt from following the rules governing its counterparts as a part of some special class. And while many other complexities abound here, it can't be emphasized enough that corporations always want to be treated as very special people, but are established as entities to avoid the same financial and social responsibilities expected from the rest of us.

    5. Re:Oy by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Funny

      You're forgetting something - the attitudes of industrialists in that time. They viewed their workers as their proteges, someone to educate to proper ethics, morals and so on.

      Did you know that Ford, for example, required his workers to adhere to a very strict moral code, down to having inspectors whose sole job was to visit families of workers to ensure that they were living a moral life?

      Education was built by the same people. So while it took job training as a part of it, much of it was about that particular form of patriotism.

      Nowadays elite's ethical code is completely demolished and slaved to pure (self) destructive egoism.

    6. Re:Oy by jameson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      OP pointed out that the situation is more similar to the French Revolution than to the Kristallnacht/disenfranchisement of Jews in 30s Germany. I agree with you that most of the tech workers are scape-goats (I have been part of this very group in the past, for the record), but I agree with OP that the situation is closer to that in the French revolution:

      (a) The targetted group holds considerable power and is connected to an apparatus that is seen with approval and benevolence `all the way up'
      (b) The targetted group lives in a `bubble' that separates its concerns from those of the `lower' classes
      (c) Targetting is driven by public disapproval, rather than by governmental machinations (sort of a fall-out of (a)).

      Now, are the Googlers etc. to blame for the situation? Most of them aren't of course, they're just innocent participants `in the system' and can't be blamed for not wanting to not participate. But I'm confident that most of the French aristocracy had little intent of stomping on the common man either-- they just didn't deal with them much. Didn't do their necks much good, in the end.

      So yes. This looks way more French revolution, `to the barricades, comrades! We shall throw off our shackles, and then guilloutine everyone who was or might have been sympathetic to these oppressors!' than Nazi `you really want to be there tonight to throw stones at the Jews, dude, or the Gauleiter will want to have a word with you, and you do remember that you have a wife and kids to feed, right?' Reichskristallnacht.

      Except modulo the guilloutines. Please.

    7. Re:Oy by thej1nx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Completely agree with you on this. However, that does not explains why higher education is so expensive in USA. What is the government doing to fix that? The few American folks that do manage to get higher education are indeed usually much superior in knowledge and skills than most of the H1B hires, but why are there not more of them? Why is state funding for education being reduced, while military funding is way more that America actually needs and keeps increasing actually, if not just staying stable. In effect, why should you need to get yourself neck-deep in debt for years what should actually be subsidized by a government that has its priorities wrong for decades?

    8. Re:Oy by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, I think your kind of people are exactly the problem. Companies have been screaming for years that education does not align with the work field. .....The Germans have found an elegant solution to this problem, ....The company pays all the bills (the student even gets paid)

      I think that you described what needs to change. Companies are not doing their part in creating an educated workforce. Instead of companies screaming that the education system isn't turning out the job-trained people they need, companies should pay to train the people they need .

      And then there are the unpaid internships, but let's not go there ......

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    9. Re:Oy by pagedout · · Score: 2

      Ok sorry your points are silly.

      (a) Part of why the Jews were persecuted due to their un-due economic and political power.
      (b) Additionally they were automatically suspect as they tended to cling to their communities and not intermingle (can you say 'bubble').
      (c) Jewish hate was widespread and common in the 1920s (and for much of history).

      That is not to say that the previous posts arguments were much better. In fact the French Revolution and the rise of Hitler really are closer to each other in cause and effect than they are to modern America. In fact if you were to read Mien Kampf you would find several places where Hitler talks about using the French Revolution as a model for 'social change'.

      From what I have read starvation is really what lead to the French Revolution and the rise of Hitler. Fortunately deaths in the USA due to starvation are so rare that they figure anorexia contributes most of them. It takes energy to break social inertia and thought history it appears that flaming hate at a specific group is the easiest way to generate that energy.

      As far as I can tell this is just (hopefully) the last vestiges of the 'down with The Man' mentality out on the wacky coast.

      http://ww2history.com/experts/...
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...

  17. Holy shit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm Jewish, and even I, or actually exactly because of that, am appalled!

    What happened in the 3rd Reich was a low point in human history. Maybe _the_ lowest point, in that all semblance of humanity and compassion were foregone.

    What's going on in California is class warfare with some misguided tactics. I can't blame the residents of the neighborhoods that fear from gentrification, even though I may (or may not, I can't really say for sure, as I don't have a better idea, to be honest) or may not have used their tactics.

  18. The old-time capitalists were smarter than today's by broward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Today's capitalists are so all-consumed with greed that it's hard to imagine somebody like Henry Ford actually raising wages to his workers could buy mor stuff. Mister Super-Genius Tom Perkins probably can't even imagine an act like that, or imagine reducing the national workweek to 36 hours to force employers to broaden income distribution, which is really how the Great Depression was fixed (48-hour workweek reduced to 40).

    Cry me a river when the government takes your obscene wealth away, Tom.

  19. Re:A short list of things that are like the Holoca by Lendrick · · Score: 4, Funny

    I also have a list of things that are like slavery if anyone is interested.

    Oh! Oh! Is it raising taxes a few percent?

  20. Re:Drift? by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

    The summery itself mentioned this. These people are unable to pay rising property taxes....

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  21. Re:Obviously something of an exaggeration... but.. by Nyder · · Score: 2

    These people are dangerous radicals if not in action then in concept. Their way of thinking... entitlement... and presumptions are dangerous.

    We have people in SF that feel they're entitled to stop traffic to promote bicycles with some frequency. We have people that feel they're entitled to pour sugar in the tanks of industrial machinery for pretty much any construction project.

    There is a strain of radical leftism in the SF area that really needs to get its public respect pulled. I am not saying pass a law. I am not saying persecute these people with government power. Rather, I am saying that they depend on a basic level on our acceptance of their behavior and we don't have to accept it.

    Their actions are not respectable. It really should stop. Stop granting them respect for their behavior. Its unacceptable.

    I don't agree. They are protesting what they think is unfair. How do you protest stuff you think is unfair, bitch about it on forums?

    --
    Be seeing you...
  22. Re:Pathetic Example by maxwell+demon · · Score: 4, Informative

    Read your history, particularly, your world history.

    You should read your history.

    NAZI were Socialists. (National Socialist Party)

    If you think that having "Socialist" in the name makes a party socialistic, you probably also believe that the German Democratic Republic was democratic, right?

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  23. Patents and RF spectrum by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Technology is one of those fields when you can still innovate without government/union restrictions.

    Patents and long-term exclusive leases to radio frequency spectrum are government restrictions.

  24. Re:Pathetic Example by gweihir · · Score: 4, Informative

    That is a gross and inaccurate simplification. Read a bit of history yourself, maybe? The Nazis were definitely not socialists in the traditional sense. That you try to deduce from the name of the party what its nature is shows that you really, really have no clue how these things works or what happened back then.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  25. From A Working Man by phmadore · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Look, I've been, in one way or another, poor for most of my life. I have had money at various points and lost it doing stupid things. I intend to have money again now that I have a family. I believe that anyone with enough grit can make it. My wife and myself, we were both homeless travelling hippies when we met. In fact, she recently wrote a short blog about this. We wouldn't have gotten off the street without some help from others, so I doubt we'll ever be as ungrateful as the typical wealthy are. I do not consider the rank and file at Apple, Google, or any other major tech firm to be wealthy, ruling class, or rich. These same progressives who are bitching about their perceived affluence would also shit their pants if these tech companies were to pay them wages comparable to the folks protesting. The more a company makes, the more a society makes, the more its lowest level members should make. That is the way capitalists have always said it should be, and it's really only when they pervert their own notion by giving CEOs 500 to 10,000% of what they pay their janitors that the corruption and bad decision-making begin to take place. Society rewards hard work but it too often rewards asskissing and outright lying, as well. Just my thoughts. I know my family will be fine no matter what; I always seem to figure something out. Still getting on our feet, now, but I'm willing to bet my income will be 300-450% of what it was last year. It takes faith, it takes grit. If I hadn't done it before, though, I don't think I'd feel equipped to do it now, so I recommend anyone who really wants to change their life to take a business class or something along those lines, because you will truly never break the economic chains as long as you have a boss profiting enjoying the fruits of your labor.

  26. Re:Obviously something of an exaggeration... but.. by Karmashock · · Score: 2

    Protesting is fine. Obstructing is not.

    Its the difference between saying you disagree and getting in my way to stop me. It is the difference between holding a sign up and slashing my tires.

    I have no problem with protesting. Protesting is fine.

    My problem is with their belief that they can do more then protest.

    They have rights... I agree. They have a right to protest.

    I have a right to ignore them. That is my right. My right to not agree with them. They want to promote bicycles for example. I don't agree. I want to drive to work in the morning without being slowed down by their stupidity. I have a right to go to work without being intentionally slowed down by their protest.

    These people exceed their rights and for that they deserve public scorn.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  27. Re:A short list of things that are like the Holoca by tepples · · Score: 4, Interesting

    2. Joseph Stalin's mass collectivization
    3. Other policies of Stalin

  28. What happens in the future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When you train and educate for current technology and current needs of business, they will be unqualified when things change.

    Companies' needs are for the short term. Technology, business and the markets change very quickly and if we train people to be one trick ponies they will have to be retrained again anyway.

    And we're not talking about ancient Babylonian or Greek here - we're talking about reading, writing, math, basic science and critical thinking here - as well as civics; which I think has been completely forgotten by everyone. Those are basic things and more important than the programming language du jour; which after going out of style, those people will be unemployable - even if they do retrain inanother language du jour - because they have no on the job experience and the companies will just go and hire some CHEAP new grads who were trained in the language/tech du jour.. The system is gamed to screw the people and enrich the rich even more.

    If a company needs a worker they SHOULD train that person to do the job that THEY need. TO demand that my taxes go to pay for vocational training for some high tech company that off shores their profit so that they don't have to pay taxes is a complete ripp-off.

    These companies want it all their way: the public pays for their worker training while they keep all the profits and pay little or no taxes.

    Google and the rest of Silicon Valley is actually harming our country. They are importing poor people to work for less, not paying taxes, ripping off the system, and all the while keeping the money for themselves.

    1. Re:What happens in the future by russotto · · Score: 2

      When you train and educate for current technology and current needs of business, they will be unqualified when things change.

      Google isn't looking for people who know "current technology" or the current needs of business. Google is looking for (at least in the software engineering role) intelligent people who know the fundamentals of computer science and software and system design. Nobody's going to ask questions in a Google interview about esoterica of Mapreduce or Bigtable or even Go.

      (In case it isn't obvious, I work at Google)

  29. That's not what was said. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And this is not similar to Kristallnacht exactly how?

    That wasn't said because you originally asked -

    I fail to see how this would be a better comparison, would you be so kind to enlighten me?

    - when the GGGP mentioned that the French revolution was a better comparison.

    See, the Jews were just that - scapegoats - and did nothing to deserve the Holocaust. The French aristocracy, OTOH, were actively harming and exploiting the peasants. In the case of the French aristocrats, they were in fact (mostly) guilty of harming the lower classes. Which is what the upper 1%érs are doing to us by lying about American's lack of skills and lack of intelligence to justify their importing of workers from very poor countries to exploit the wage differential and to put downward pressure on local wages.

    1. Re:That's not what was said. by thej1nx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed. So how is your average google engineer harming and exploiting "the peasants"? Please do clarify. Because, the 1%, well they are using their super-expensive cars to commute and are not on those buses at all. 1% might indeed be lying about the lack of skills, but folks like you make me wonder if they are indeed lying about the average American's lack of intelligence.

    2. Re:That's not what was said. by deconfliction · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So how is your average google engineer harming and exploiting "the peasants"?

      Dear God, it's sunday and here I am on slashdot, oh why, oh why?

      Short answer is probably mainly because I've been unemployed for years since I walked out on a six figure salary and a hardwalled office in the historic Xerox-Parc after I walked out on VMWare in January of 2009. Well, we'll set asside my educational 2 months stint working at Wendy's, which truly was more rewarding in every way other than financially than working for VMWare or others.

      Why did I do that? I did it because of GITMO. Which oddly enough, I'm going to stretch to being connected with SnowdenPRISMCrash.

      I wish I could better quote 'The Matrix' and the 'any one of them can be an agent' speech from Morpheus. But the spirit of those words is my answer to your question about how the 'average googler' is harming the 'peasants'. The fact of the matter is that the 'average googler' works for a system of control. That system of control, has been using the worst kinds of violations of human rights for the last decade to deprive us peasants of the ability to secure our networked digital communications. The 'average googler' has been parroting the party line for the last 10 pre-Snowden years about how - 'you are crazy and paranoid, and there is nothing to worry about, you have no idea how profoundly smart we are here at google and how we know what is best for you. Please, avert your eyes from the man with the NSA hat in the corner fiddling with those cables and that black box he is unpacking'.

      Sweet Jesus, don't you get it? Pick your pill. Red or Blue, it's your only choice.

      Now follow me as I stumble down the bunny trail...

      * note, while the timing of my departure from the realm of the highly paid was more about GITMO, it also was at the same time VMWare was trying to convince me that a non-smart-card fingerprint authd USB stick was sufficient security for the guest tools package signing key connected to an internet connected system. Yes, they wanted me to be one of 4 people whose fingerprint had auth to the guest tools rpm packages private key material. Later I would go on to spout my crazy 'build and signing systems should be airgapped from the internet' theories to ScientificLinux. They hounded me out of the community as a loon as many other communities have as well. Now I have the Snowden revelations to keep my spirit warm at night. Not quite the same warmth as the kind of financial security and ability to build and support and protect a family that the 'average googler' has, but it ain't nothin. Thanks God.

    3. Re:That's not what was said. by westlake · · Score: 2
      It may be bad form to post a follow-up to your own post, but this story caught my attention:

      For some, a job at Google is the stuff dreams are made of, but for security guard Manny Cardenas, it's been more of a nightmare.

      While working as security guard at Google's Mountain View headquarters, 24-year-old Cardenas said he had to move back in with his mother and enroll his daughter in MediCal because his pay amounted to $1,000 a month at most, and he received no health benefits. He says Google's security guard contractor, Security Industry Specialists, doesn't provide a set number of work hours every week to its security guards at Google, which meant he's worked as little as one day a week some weeks. Even though he's paid $16 an hour, his monthly pay at its peak was less than what a full time job at minimum wage provides.

      Members of a delegation of 400 Belgian business leaders who were visiting Google seemed to be bit surprised by the action.

      ''We are accustomed to strikes in Belgium, it's a democratic right,'' said Gael Lambinon, a member of the Belgian business group. ''It's nice to see that people are free to claim their rights, even at Google in Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley is not paradise --- that is what we tend to imagine.''

      A young Googler approached the Voice to ask what the protest was about. Upon hearing a brief explanation, he said, ''Whatever, I don't give a (expletive).''

      Mountain View resident Elena Pacheco said the situation was illustrative of there being ''two Silicon Valleys'' where ''the rich are getting more rich and the poor are getting worse.''

      SEIU protests at Google (2013)

  30. Re:Actually, it's called entropy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Even in the extreme case which you demonstrate, you are ignoring bias. You assume that because there are 25 combinations where one person gets all the coins versus only 1 combination where everybody gets 1 coin each, but you don't consider that the combinations are not equiprobable - permutations are. Of 8881784197001252323389053344726600 permutations 25 of them result in one person having all the coins, and 15511210043330985984000000 permutations result in everyone getting exactly 1 coin. Your estimation of which outcome is more likely was off by a factor of ~200 million.

  31. Re: It's called perspective, anger is misdirected by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > You have your neighborhood back.

    and you find yourself living in New Detroit.

    That's OK. You can chase away all of the employers. I am sure there are other cities that would be happy to have them.

    Come east and leave those eurotrash wannabes behind.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  32. Re:Perkins is dead right by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They don't seem particularly comparable to Kristallnacht to me, either. Kristallnacht was a widespread pogrom, in which an entire population's stores, homes, etc. were smashed, urged on and assisted by the state. A comparable event would be if the San Francisco city government collected a list of which Mission and SoMa apartments were occupied by tech employees, which office buildings housed tech offices, etc., quietly distributed this list to its armed followers in preparation, and then called for an all-out attack on all these places of residence and business. I would say that, so far, this has... not happened.

    --
    10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
  33. He's trying to shut down debate by TarPitt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you think there is something wrong with historically unprecedented income and wealth inequality, if you fear for the future of democracy when 85 individuals control more wealth than 3.5 billion people, if you are alarmed at the influence of this wealth on politics (to the point where a single individual can bankroll an entire presidential campaign, then you are a Nazi.

    No further discussion necessary.

    A few individuals have vandalized buses, therefore an entire subject is off limits.

    --
    If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
    1. Re:He's trying to shut down debate by stenvar · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you think there is something wrong with historically unprecedented income and wealth inequality, if you fear for the future of democracy when 85 individuals control more wealth than 3.5 billion people [latimes.com],

      You are one of that select group of people who control more wealth than 3 billion people, because half the world has no wealth at all. Don't you feel evil yet?

      And do you know how that distribution has been historically? Of course not.

      If you're doing anything tech related in the US, there's a good chance that your income is likely also in the top 1-5% of the world, you evil one-percenter!

      A few individuals have vandalized buses, therefore an entire subject is off limits.

      What do the wealth of the 85 richest persons have to do with how Silicon Valley engineers commute?

      No further discussion necessary.

      Well, obviously not with you! You have already made up your mind and won't let facts get in the way of your ideology or your bigotry.

    2. Re:He's trying to shut down debate by Guy+Harris · · Score: 3, Informative

      No further discussion necessary.

      Well, obviously not with you! You have already made up your mind and won't let facts get in the way of your ideology or your bigotry.

      When the poster you're quoting says "No further discussion necessary", he's saying that this is what Perkins is implying, i.e. "hey, this protest is just like Kristallnacht, hence evil and unworthy of discussion". Read the posting, and its title ("He's trying to shut down debate", "he" being Perkins) more carefully.

  34. Re:People are sick and tired of hipsters. by MightyYar · · Score: 2

    I prefer the NYC approach.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  35. Re:A short list of things that are like the Holoca by iluvcapra · · Score: 2

    Every dollar paid in taxes is the dollar not paid in salary. Just saying.

    That's not how tax incidence works. If payroll taxes are lowered but the elasticity of demand in the labor market is high, employers simply lower wages by the amount taxes are lowered. Labor demand is driven by take-home pay, not the top-line salary figure, and employers will pocket any change as long as jobs are tight and people are willing to work for the same take-home pay.

    Also that's not how net transfers work; people who make $25k a year will have a withholding but will probably get the whole balance back, at least on their Federal return. People who make $1 million a year probably aren't making salary at all, and are deriving significant income from economic rents, which can be taxed at 100% without deadweight loss. (Most people would say this is immoral, economic efficiency notwithstanding.)

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  36. Re:It's called perspective, anger is misdirected by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because I would rather not work and bitch and moan about those who have a good job, than have a good job based on my ability.

    That's not how it works. Hard work is the worst predictor of success. The best is who your parents are. Even luck is more relevant. That's not to say you don't have to work hard, only that it's not a relevant differentiating factor. Many of the most successful people (by typical metrics) have never really worked in their lives.

    what the fuck happened to this country when working hard and making money became a bad thing?

    Worker productivity has increased by orders of magnitude but worker pay has decreased. That's what happened. It's called lack of incentive. The worker is actually getting a worse deal today than at any other point during the democracy experiment.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  37. Re:The old-time capitalists were smarter than toda by khallow · · Score: 2

    that it's hard to imagine somebody like Henry Ford actually raising wages to his workers could buy mor stuff.

    Ever wonder why society got to the state where shortsightedness is so amply rewarded? It's real simple. Get rid of the risk, which is what has been done on multiple levels, from welfare (both of the personal and corporate sort) through to Keynesian-style economics and publicly funded R&D, and you get rid of the incentive to think long term.

  38. This is bullshit by prefec2 · · Score: 2

    The Jews in Germany were killed because they belonged to a specific group of people who had a reference to Jewish religion. All the accusations against them were wrong and just used to form a common enemy. This especially is true for the Reichsprogromnacht (Kristallnacht is Nazi vocabulary).

    The attacks on Google employees is wrong, but they are triggered by a real impact these people have. Due to their high income they can pay more for houses, which triggers an increase in house prices. Therefore, other people are pushed out of the same area. The term for this is gentrification. This results in pressure on poorer people. So they get angry. A result of the gentrification in SF is also that the Google-people are destroying the very environment they want to join. Similar things happened in Germany's capital Berlin where the Prenzlauer Berg was former a by artists and other creative but poor people inhabited district, but is now occupied by richer "hip" people. There are also such conflicts in Hamburg.

    The problem is a class based discrimination through money power. With the widening gap between low and middle/high class income, these problems increase. Cities have to cope with this by limiting the potential to squeeze out poor peoples of districts. The big money bubble presently floating around the world is also steering up house prices causing gentrification resulting in more violence in the end.

    1. Re:This is bullshit by bkmoore · · Score: 2

      Best post of the day on this topic... When rents go up, people's incomes down, especially those living on a fixed income. Most people on the driving side of the market don't know what it's like to be on the wrong side of the deal. So when people have their lives uprooted and are forced from their homes, they chalk it up to class envy or some other overly simplistic assumptions to make them feel better about themselves.

  39. Re:Pathetic Example by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Try Democratic People's Republic of Korea, more commonly known as North Korea for a much more "how stupid are you to take things at face value" impact.

  40. Re:A short list of things that are like the Holoca by MtViewGuy · · Score: 2

    How about what happened in the former Soviet Union during Stalin's reign between 1928 and 1953 and China during Mao's reign between 1949 and 1976?

    Between unfettered mass shootings, labor camps, forced exile and deliberate famine (all of which the Nazis practiced in their "racial cleansing" program that included the Holocaust), scholars estimate at minimum 100 million people were killed, with some estimates as high as 150 million! That is genocide on a scale unimaginable in human history--all done in the name of "equality" as defined by the political Left.

  41. Re:Pathetic Example by onyxruby · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Nazi's were hardcore socialists that very much believed is socialistic ideals. The Nazi's were very zealous about their socialism and enforcing it. They used everything from price and wage controls to verdant support for trains for the masses. Hitler was an adamant anti-capitalist and used this to support his genocide of the jews. Labor unions were replaced by government controlled unions and shops and other business were routinely seized by the state.

    You can read some translated propaganda here where the Nazi's explained why they embraced socialism. In their own words:

    We are socialists; We are enemies, mortal enemies, of the present-day capitalist economic systemâ¦We are resolved to annihilate this system despite everything.

    The Soviets took them seriously enough to form a treaty with the Nazi's in the time leading up to WW2 - something they weren't in the habit of doing with other nations. Industry was effectively owned by the government (even when in name someone else held the title) and German industrial companies were seized as government assets for repatriation at the end of the war.

    By way of example Hitler saw the need for a cheap car for the masses and ordered Ferdinand Porsche to design the original beetle to his specifications (Hitlers original sketch is a Google search away). The result was the founding of the Volkswagen (people's car) for the express purpose of building an affordable car for the masses. At the end of the war the English got that bit and almost put Volkswagen out to pasture, leaving it be only because they thought the company was worthless.

    http://jerryfisher.hubpages.co...

    Strip away all the genocide and war crimes and your left with very socialist ideals.

  42. Re:Pathetic Example by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You seem to have eaten the propaganda wholesale. Yes, they were opposed to capitalism, but for entirely different reasons: They basically wanted the whole population to be one kind of unified army, and capitalism is chaos. Calling this "socialism" was just good for their propaganda efforts.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  43. Re:First post. by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think Perkins is mistaking Versailles in 1789 for Berlin in 1933.

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  44. Re:Pathetic Example by BadDreamer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So you're taking nazi propaganda at face value and using the opportunistic treaty with the nation Hitler was building up his strength to crush as evidence, and you're not doing it ironically?

    I'm impressed. Not in the sense you intended, I'm sure, but I am.

  45. Re:Pathetic Example by stenvar · · Score: 2

    Here is the Nazi view of capitalism:

    The Nazis argued that capitalism damages nations due to international finance, the economic dominance of big business, and Jewish influences.[156] Nazi propaganda posters in working class districts emphasised anti-capitalism, such as one that said: "The maintenance of a rotten industrial system has nothing to do with nationalism. I can love Germany and hate capitalism."[163]

    Strike the "Jewish influences" and you get political and economic views that closely match those of Occupy and many progressives.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...