Slashdot Mirror
Detroit Wants Its Own High-Tech Visa
dcblogs writes "Detroit, a city in bankruptcy and dealing with a shrinking population, hopes to turn itself around with the help of 50,000 employment-based green cards. In exchange for the visa, an immigrant would be required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time. The visas would be made available under the EB-2 visa category, a visa for advanced degree professionals or those deemed with 'exceptional ability' in the sciences, arts and business. The proposal was made by Michigan's governor, Rick Snyder. Daniel Costa, an immigration policy analyst at Economic Policy Institute, said Snyder would have more credibility on the issue if he were doing more to help workers in Detroit. In 2011, the state cut jobless benefits by six weeks to 20. 'I also think the federal government should be offering people in the U.S. some money and land in Detroit if they'll move there,' said Costa, or 'just offer it to people across the country who have advanced degrees.'"
...a familiar lifestyle for people from third-world countries with high crime, corrupt cops and crumbling infrastructure.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
Here's the problem with importing more and more workers: They're going to get fucked by the Big Boys just like the rest of is. I have no illusions about this.
How about Dan Costa's idea? If the feds want Detroit to live, offer business grants to get people to open up shop there, give the existing population work (instead of just importing more people), and give them the opportunity to lift themselves out of poverty.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
They ran themselves into the ground. Let them suffer the consequences.
Behold the fruits of 50 years of uninterrupted Democratic rule!
Does the federal government own land in Detroit?
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
It's nice to have slaves. They can't just pack up and go if they don't like it anymore unless they want their lives to be even worse. "Hello sir! I'm willing to suck your cock in Detroit. Much better than the cock I was sucking in India!"
Did anyone think of incentivising the "natives" to live and work in Detroit? Oh? They want too much money? They want to be able to live outside of work as well, have fun, holidays, kids, friends? The selfish fucks...
doing what? Haven't most people left because there aren't enough jobs? You want to pay off your debts, charge people an exit tax.
It seems like a default position for state and municipal politicians to primarily look at how the federal government can help them. If anybody should pay people to come to Detroit, shouldn't it be Detroit or Michigan?
The visa issue has to be federal, of course.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
America has come full circle.
If Detroit had 50.000 job positions for advanced degree professionals or those deemed with 'exceptional ability' in the sciences, arts and business, then it would not be in the shit-hole it currently is in.
With an unemployment rate of 17.7%, it doesn't look to me like they need MORE people imported to look for work. Looks to me like they need to be spurring businesses to start there so that they can hire some of these people who are looking for work.
As we well know, 17.7% means that these are the number of people on the eligible list of unemployment benefits...which they just cut to 20 weeks. So, it doesn't include the number of people who never found a job while they were on unemployment and now have neither a job nor can collect unemployment.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
What about the 20+ million unemployed US citizens?
The people who are making this decision are part of the same group of people responsible for destroying Detroit.
Toledo, OH had high hopes following Detroit's economic/business model - they still do, even though they watched Detroit crash and burn.
We have become a country of sheep.
I see the point. If you attract people who would normally not come to this area with an incentive of being part of America if you stay there and survive 5 years and also pay the taxes during that time as EB2 has wage guidelines. I think we might see some innovation. May be some company will setup shop there and have the workers work in Detroit but have clients all over. I see way too many opportunities for the city to come back. There are no jobs there right now for anyone so the government cannot give these non existent jobs to job hunting Americans. I also believe that they don't have money to relocate Americans by providing incentives.
Doesn't using the phrase "an immigrant would be required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time" sound a lot like an indentured labour program? It seems awfully familiar to what the Brits did to/in India during the 1800s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_indenture_system)
The concept of "company town" gets a spit and polish for the 21st century. Good job repackaging yesterday's failed concepts, Detroit!
I heard this 4 days ago on NPR!! While Slashdot, was spreading culturally bias, political leaning 'news' about about fisherman in Japan.
FU - samzenpus
They should build walls around the city so their remaining citizens cannot leave.
Oh that's right... nobody is willing to pay higher than slave wages anymore.
Look at how much of Democratic campaigns are funded by contributions from public employee unions.
We now have a government by the government for the government. AKA the Democratic Party.
How are you going to convince someone with an advanced degree to settle in effing Detroit? They are going to want to escape the poverty of the third world!
The problem facing Detroit is not a lack of people with advanced degrees. The problem is decades of life under a corrupt mayor, high crime, crushing taxes, over-regulation, and shitty weather.
The situation is improving a lot lately, but it has a long way to go. You can't solve this overnight by issuing a bunch of visas. Detroit needs to get serious about redevelopment, crime prevention, and attracting business. Once there are good jobs there, you'll have plenty of Americans with advanced degrees going there. I don't have to remind you that we're in the midst of a "jobless recovery".
All of these things are happening already. It's just a slow process to undo decades of mismanagement.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
So yeah, snow, ice, snow, sleet, ice, cold rain, snow, sleet, and ice.
Sorry, any place that advertises, among its many amenities, great ice fishing isn't somewhere I want to live.
"Hey, you can move to Detroit and freeze your ass off 6 months a year, or you can live anywhere south of there and it's better!"
Yeesh.
Maybe they can offer 40 acres and a mule to move there.
There are about 150,000 EB-2 visas given out every year. 1/3 of those are going to go to Detroit? Maybe they'll increase the total by 50k just for Detroit, that would still be 1/4 of the granted EB-2 visas. There is tremendous demand for these, and someone (a US business) usually pays for the substantial legal bills for the application. The people who get these visas don't grow on trees, it's probably the most competitive one you can go for, depending on where you're from. I've known experienced scientists who haven't qualified for it.
Many have not checked out of society, they have been pushed out due to their values of ethics, hardwork and knowledge. If you want cars that fall apart like software, go ahead. just make sure your license agreement demonises the user as a "hacker".
They should talk to Bank Of America, or Citi
They have cards with the new chip technology to prevent fraud
Am I missing something here? Who are these 50,000 people supposed to work for? The article vaguely mentions them, "opening businesses", but I have to ask, open businesesses doing what?
Proverbs 21:19
Help people get a new start in another city with more job opportunities, don't bring in more people when unemployment there is so high.
---------
There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
Always makes me laugh to hear the argument that extending unemployment benefits increases employment. They are contradictory, obviously.
There's a lot of decay in Detroit, so much so that it's unattractive to new businesses. Even if you get get more workers into Detroit, what would they do for a living? Plow down more blocks of vacant, dilapidated houses? As has been said here, the unemployment rate in Detroit is in the high teens and if there's ever going to be a re-birth, what has to happen is that businesses need to be able to move back into Detroit and that requires a solid government and a solid infrastructure otherwise you may just as well bulldoze the rest down.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Frick you Detroit. Hire Americans.
We musn't have that!
I think Costa missed a big selling point for Detroit - proximity to Canada. If things keep getting worse instead of better, you're only a bridge away from Windsor, Ontario, Canada! Mexicans upset with low employment and poverty go North and cross the border for a better in the States. That same option is available to us! Southern Ontario has the same climate as Detroit, nicer people, generic drugs, and way less gun and violent crime. Sounds like a solution to me!
(The thing is - even I don't know if know if I'm joking or not...)
Isn't one Detroits problems high unemployment?
So, the solution is to bring people in to work?
What does that say about the people who are there?
I'm sure the City of Detroit would make some decent coin from the transaction fees plus the interest rate on the Visa card balance.
Good idea.
Essentially what they're admitting is that they cannot attract enough tax-paying US residents to Detroit. Therefore, they need to look elsewhere for people who are willing to work hard enough to generate the necessary tax revenues needed pay for the services which current residents want and to rescue Detroit from their woes.
This is the ultimate representation of the failure of a community.
Yeah, because the only thing keeping people out of Detroit now is high land prices!
Ken
This country is addicted to free or cheap labor. There are plenty of people that can fill these jobs, the problem is that most of these people are not will to work for the low wages that they want to pay.
actually we can do it now with desalination, no advancement really needed.
Not economically. Industrial scale desalinization is still far too expensive to be practical in most places.
", Detroit, and Michigan in general, will be relevant again"
nope, never happen. Crappy weather, high crime, republican stripping away representation for all but about 50,000 people, no industry... nothing really.
I have news for you. The Detroit Metro area is relevant NOW and has been for a long time. Don't confuse Detroit City with the greater Detroit metropolitan area. Detroit City has its problems and they'll take a while to solve but relatively few people live and work there. About 680,000 people live in Detroit City versus about 3,700,000 in the suburbs. Oakland county immediately to the north of Detroit City is one of the 10 wealthiest counties in the entire US, has a AAA bond rating (the highest possible) and 60% of the Fortune 500 have facilities in the county. It's a genuinely nice place to live - I should know because I live there. When most people say they are "from Detroit" what most really mean is that they live in Detroit Metro, ie the suburbs.
No industry? Hah! Michigan is still the beating heart of manufacturing in the US. The amount of manufacturing that goes on here is astonishing even with the auto industry problems. And it isn't just making cars. Not by a long shot. The number of engineers and high tech jobs here is only exceeded by 3 or 4 cities in the entire US. (do you have any idea how much technology goes into making cars?)
Oh and the weather is only "crappy" for part of the year if you can't handle snow. Spring, summer and fall in Michigan are gorgeous and so is winter once you get outdoors and move around. Personally I like to go skiing, snowshoeing, and skating and Michigan is terrific for outdoor activities year round. Within a 10 mile radius of my house I have over 16,000 acres of public parks with every outdoor activity imaginable available to me. Horse riding, skiing, running, biking, sailing, kayaking, golf, hiking, camping, etc. You name it I can be doing it (season permitting) within 30 minutes.
offer business grants to get people to open up shop there, give the existing population work (instead of just importing more people), and give them the opportunity to lift themselves out of poverty.
More importantly, give them SMALL business grants, so that Detroit develops a very diverse economy, and you have lots of 2, 3, 10, 50 employee companies that are providing a diversity of services. Even better, give priority to non-franchises so the money stays in the local economy (and the country, for that matter, instead of getting shipped off to a Cayman holding company.) Bring back the bakers, the shoe shops, the florists, etc.
The last thing Detroit needs is another mono-industry or mono-company economy. That's how damn near every 'boom town' gets burned...they start catering to one company or industry, and become the city equivalent of codependent. The point of a city is to be a good place to live, not a good place to work...
Please help metamoderate.
Sweet, I've always wanted Robocop to be real.
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
Want Detroit to be sold to Ohio or Canada. Please can we just make that entire armpit of the state go away?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
... but only in the People Republic of California. At least, the weather's nice there.
There's a lot of decay in Detroit, so much so that it's unattractive to new businesses.
Actually lots of businesses see Detroit as long term attractive. There are numerous people like Dan Gilbert who are buying up property left and right and moving businesses downtown. You can get property REALLY cheap and make a killing if you know what you are doing. There is a LOT of opportunity in Detroit City for those who are entrepreneurial. I have relatives who just opened up a coffee shop and others who have restaurants in downtown Detroit. It's a terrific place to do business.
Even if you get get more workers into Detroit, what would they do for a living?
How about go to work for General Motors (their headquarters and much engineering are downtown), or Compuware, or Quicken Loans, or American Axle or Ernst & Young or PriceWaterhouseCoopers, or Blue Cross or HP Enterprise Services, or many others. There are jobs in law, finance, medicine, biomedical research, engineering, software and marketing. Good, high paying jobs.
Plow down more blocks of vacant, dilapidated houses?
Already happening. Detroit City used to have a lot more people than it does not. Much of the land is going to get re-purposed in the coming years. Yeah, it'll take quite a while to finish the job but they've already started.
I would vote GOP if I had the chance to.
And the Great Lakes have a moderating effect on the regional temperature compared to the temps just a little west, north, or even south. When the polar vortex came through, MI had a minor bubble of warmth that Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio lacked. Highs were -15F down south where it was -6 in MI.
"Snyder would have more credibility on the issue if he were doing more to help workers in Detroit. In 2011, the state cut jobless benefits by six weeks to 20."
Paying unemployment is not helping workers, by definition.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Why should Detroit be saved? If the city has collapsed, then maybe there is a good reason for it. The only reason it existed in the first place was access to steel, workers, and shipping over the lakes. Now that our country has much better transportation infrastructure, access to steel and shipping over the lakes are unimportant. The workers aren't really needed either, since almost all of our manufacturing can be automated. The only thing that kept Detroit going for so long was inertia. Now that the inertia has changed, Detroit doesn't have any manufacturing advantage over any other city in the country. Capitalism, free market, and survival of the fittest all say that Detroit needs to go away. There is no reason for government meddling, and waste, to save it.
And nothing that Detroit has to offer except being close to Canada would appeal to me, and that's just not enough.
I'm pretty sure you've never actually spent any time in Detroit or you'd realize what you just said is very ignorant. Yes Detroit has its problems but it's hardly the hell hole it is made out to be. There are excellent employers, plenty of entertainment within easy reach, great restaurants, and more. Plus you have easy access to the Great Lakes, Michigan and Canada which are all amazing. I could easily see myself living in downtown Detroit under the right circumstances. I live not far from Detroit as it is and I go downtown regularly. Like any big city it has its nicer areas and other areas you probably should steer away from. People go downtown all the time for sporting events (Lions, Tigers and Red Wings), cultural events (DIA), casinos, restaurants and more.
High tech companies need HIGHLY skilled workers. Most of the unemployed autoworkers in Detroit are not highly skilled.
Detroit Metro has a HUGE supply of highly skilled engineers and other high tech workers. There are only 3-4 cities in the entire US with more high tech jobs than around Metro Detroit. The problem is that these folks are already employed out in the suburbs were about 5/6 of the population lives. There are a surprising number of companies moving to downtown Detroit and they are bringing workers with them.
Seastead this.
Outsource them. That's right folks, outsourcing is the wave of the future. Why bother actually doing your job when you can hire someone from a third world country to do for you? Need to fill a whole bunch of vacancies in your crumbling city? Outsource them! Yessss Everybody is doing it now so can you.
Nothing like a conservative to bring us back to the future.
25 bucks a year. If you had that you would have more reverse snow birds that you could shake a stick at.
I had read that somewhere in... Spain? They had a much better idea. If 5 people (or so, sketchy on details) would get together and form a business, the government would give them 3-5? years of their unemployment as a lump sum.... Here you go, go start a business. Oddly enough, that region had a LOT of co-op/small businesses.
Importing more people to Detroit is a stupid idea. Why not foster the entrepreneurial spirit of the people already there?
Homesteading is another good idea. Give away free houses (instead of bulldozing them) to people who start businesses.
Oh wait, those two completely awesome ideas are SOCIALIST!!!! Can't have that.....
Chip manufacturing contaminates water.
That's what they're not telling you.
Many /.ers have posted that Detroit is a disaster because of mismanagement by Coleman young, but that is only a sliver of the truth.
Detroit is the most segregated major city in America - 83% black, but for some reason there is no call for "diversity" from the anti-white leftstream media. Detroit used to be majority white city, and produced vast wealth. Black people rioted in the 60's, and over time the white majority packed up and left. And productivity left with them.
Sure, Coleman was about as bad as mayors get, but he was elected time and again - why? Black nationalism, a PC friendly name for black racism. Coleman Young complained about the money leaving with the whites - but being a black supremacist moron, he thought these people left with mattresses stuffed with cash, not realizing that the wealth of the white exodus was in their productivity, not in hard currency.
Blacks were handed the keys to a complete modern metropolis and the resident industrires - and following black standard operating procedure, all this wealth was neglected or squandered into nothing. The once beautiful city is a ruin. It's disgusting.
Black people, for whatever reason whether it's genetic or cultural who knows, do not produce wealth as a group. Yet the media and leftists, and those who just don't want to be shouted at by them, will not comment on the obvious, pretend that Detroit's problems have some mysterious cause that nobody can identify. They pretend that there is some conspiracy, or mysterious economic undertow, or maybe the ground was cursed by and evil witch. They will never mention the simple truth: A city is its people, the people are the city. The dirt and buildings are just decoration, not even important. Detroit's problems = Detroit's people. Black people.
If Detroit imports 50,000 visa workers, they will probably set up shop and succeed. Provided that they are not killed by the natives and their love of violence. And after the visa workes have succeeded, the natives will be exactly where they are now because the content of their character will not be improved. Detroit's tax base would get better, but that little bit of parasitism is about the only benefit the locals would see.
I'm sure some of you are already composing retaliatory screeds about the great black individuals you know - but individuals aren't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about populations, and when the sample sets get big trends emerge, and it takes a big poisonous dose of Political Correctness to avoid noticing.
You can have my SIG when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
I'd rather move to The Congo.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
I feel bad for students studying IT at community colleges, especially in Detroit. Why aren't they be hired, instead of politicians asking to import foreign labor?
It's frustrating, because I want to be able to tell them that because of a shortage of IT workers, big companies are looking to hire and train them.
But they're not... IBM/Accenture/etc. would rather hire foreigners at lower rates than hire local community college students that understand the American language and culture perfectly.
Forget IBM/Accenture/etc.... now the local _politicians_ are saying that those students aren't going to get IT jobs because local foreigners are going to get them.
I understand that the local politicians are in a very tough spot, since the decisions that are dooming Detroit were made decades ago. With a shrinking population, imported high-income (therefore, high tax paying) labor seems like as good a decision as any, but, frankly, it's insulting to the local students.
Tell me that as a 18-year-old impressionable youth in Detroit, after hearing this article, you wouldn't think that a life of drugs and crime would be a better way to get out of poverty than IT.
That Wrangler has a straight six engine based from a 50 year old design. You'll be lucky to get 18mpg while driving it even with a manual. Can you name any of these efficiency features? Its probably one of the most basic vehicle designs you'll see.
For those who think socialism works, go to Detroit and you will see the cancer of "From each according to his ability to each according to his need" as the abomination sinks into the depths of the hell on earth it created for itself. I have no love for this city, but to send immigrants there as their first vision of our great country is just sad. What do you do when the immigrants flee ...oh wait I get it.. brilliant, solve the immigration issue by making people think the USA is Detroit. Bloody brilliant. People will fear coming to this country. Wow sorry I missed it, just brilliant.
most people prefer 3rd world countries to detroit
of what was being said in the article. They want to offer 50000 visas to foreign workers. Do you honestly think that they will pay these guys to "live and work in Detroid for an undetermined amount of time" the same way that they would an American worker? They want cheap labor, that is all. That is how they are going to try to draw business back into that area. It's not about Democrat or Republican, it's about corrupt and ignorant management of that city.
This sounds like they just want to bring back slavery.
Why not offer incentives to bring American workers to the area?
I like the gasoline theory, which correlates the reduction in leaded gasoline (which phased in at different times in different states) with the reduction in crime years later (which also got moving at different times in different states), on the basis that low-level lead poisoning has behavioral effects.
I don't know what anybody else thinks, but there is no amount of money you could pay me to live in Detroit, and if i need a visa to get a job there that is even more reason for me to stay away, plus it is part of the USA needing a visa for a state is stupid anyway. I say strip down all of the government and police force, and then try to improve the city.
I'd suggest:
Continue to downsize Detroit city limits. Reduce operating costs.
Employ locals for demolition and cleanup work
Clean up the town zone by zone
Clean out government corruption
Reinvent - attract new business with tax incentives. There is no going back to the old model.
and govmint. 'cause having several hundred thousand jobs go overseas (and to Mexico, thanks NAFTA!) and then have to support a city with millions jobless while real wages plummeted for 40 years certainly had no impact whatsoever...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
The Dems didn't help. You see, NAFTA pretty much wrecked what little was left of the blue collar industry there was. The Dems still supported it though, so there's that. The difference was the Reps basically said "Adapt or Die in a Fire" where the Dems wanted social programs to ease the pain.
:(
There's other stuff the Reps did on a National level that hurt Detroit. See, that's sorta the problem Detroit has. They're a victim of outsourcing, off shoring, and a geneneral attact on the the middle class in America. There was a name for it back in the 90s: "Cheap Labor Conservatives". Sort of a response to "Tax and Spend Liberal". It's not as catchy though....
That's the trouble with Liberalism. It's complex answers to complex problems. It can't compete with Conservative ideology because it's not an ideology per se, just the desire to _do_ something instead of leaving everything to the "invisible hand"...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Detroit went to hell when the Auto Industry moved to Japan/China/Mexico. Sure, there's mismanagement, but you get that everywhere (Silicon Valley, I'm lookin' at you). What _specifically_ could the Dems in Detroit do when their entire tax base lost their livelihoods and the 1%ers started cutting wages like mad? I guess they coulda done like West Virginia and cut environmental safety regs left/right. Only I hear you can't drink the water...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I can't believe that people are still falling for the ruse of the "two-party" system. They collude together to further their individual (singular person) agendas.
The industrial model on which Detroit was based is obsolete, there is no reason to spend vast sums to remove obsolete infrastructure when greenfield locations in States with better climates are cheap, and the geographic advantages Detroit had many decades ago are gone.
It is perfectly reasonable to shrink Detroit, demolish obsolete housing stock and bury onsite, then leave unsupportable areas unsupported.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
...forgot the unsustainably high, 3rd world tax levels part.
Leave it as a wildlife habitat even if some of the wildlife was once civilized.
This is what happens when Unions have too much power, and democrats say in power in a state too long. Got Unions that only care about their members, and will destroy everyone else to get them more. And you got the democrat party that that are economic ignorant.
The state needs someone like Scott Walker to turn it around. Its been amazing how stupid he has made democrats look
Detroit need immigrants because they are use to high crime rate. But I guess the state only has minimal paying jobs available, so they need to get people who are willing to be paid minimal to work there.
Sure, as long as they're willing to foot the bill to enclose the live/work area with 30 foot fences, surveillance cameras, motion sensors, and machine gun nests on autopilot to prevent escape. Good deal! Now let's get those same conditions on Silicon Valley companies if they're so dedicated to hiring the unwashed proto-terrorist hordes from the 3rd world.
You can put money into schools in Detroit and create Detroit-native high tech workers. That is actually the responsibility of the Detroit-area governments. No innovation is necessary.
A deteriorating culture is almost impossible to turn around without an injection of new blood, new ideas, and new life.
Which existing policy that DeBlassio has promised to repeal/reverse will accelerate the the drop in crime in NYC?
Ken
If you want them to have any hope of living.
Oh my.... More waste of our tax payer dollars. I'm ashamed to say I live in Michigan, and have such a "Dick Head" of a governor as Rick Snyder!
"...required to 'live and work' in Detroit for an undetermined length of time..."
Wouldn't that qualify as 'cruel and unusual punishment'??
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Would work for OCP...
Seriously folks, "Fist full of Yen" is not a blueprint, and neither is "1984".
Also
"Send them to... Detroit!"